0:00

Hello everybody on this another edition of

0:00

the public goods podcast we have in my

0:06

opinion one of the most public goods of

0:06

all time and successful case studies Pizza

0:11

DAO and Snax one of the stewards or

0:11

delivery people for these great pizzas and

0:20

Yeah, I think there is a lot to be learned

0:20

if you don't know about Pizza DAO their

0:24

DAO about pizza and Yeah, they they not

0:24

only

0:29

throw global pizza parties around the

0:29

world, but they're one of the only Web3

0:32

communities that consistently ship exactly

0:32

what they promise, which is pizza.

0:37

And they've never failed one time in any

0:37

of my experiences around any event

0:42

worldwide. So yeah, welcome Snax to the pod.

0:46

How you doing? thanks. And yeah, and my title within Pizza Now,

0:47

along with some others, is Dread Pizza

0:51

Roberts. This is what we eat.

0:54

Yeah, can you give some context on that

0:54

name, actually?

1:00

Uh, so Dread Pirate Roberts, right, is,

1:00

uh, is actually what Ross Ulbrich went by,

1:06

uh, the Silk Road guy. And, uh, and, you know, it's the idea of,

1:08

I think it's the, the, the way that Dread

1:14

Pirate Roberts is set up right in the, uh,

1:14

in the Princess Bride is that it's this,

1:18

uh, you know, this leader that can always

1:18

be replaced within this organization.

1:22

So the organization sort of lives on with

1:22

the new Dread Pirate Roberts.

1:26

And that's kind of the idea of Dread Pizza

1:26

Roberts, I guess.

1:30

is that it's to be replaceable.

1:35

that is an amazing backstory.

1:38

Free Ross Albright. Shout out to one of the earliest use cases

1:40

of Web3.

1:45

And I think a lot of our first

1:45

introductions into the space.

1:49

And I wanted to kind of give a little

1:49

backstory before we go into the pizza,

1:53

like, Dao and everything in terms of the

1:53

evolution.

1:57

Like, kind of how did you originally...

1:59

get into the space, was it inspired by the

1:59

dead pirate or was it more like, kind of

2:07

like, yeah, what re -impaired you into the

2:07

space?

2:11

was spending a lot of time on the internet

2:11

in like 2010, 2011 and just really deep in

2:21

like tiny chat and I think I was on

2:21

Twitter, I was in like random old Facebook

2:25

groups and just spending. I had just dropped out of college and I

2:26

was just like, I was living in my buddy's

2:30

grow house and just like a little

2:30

depressed honestly.

2:34

And I heard about LulzSec had hacked Sony.

2:38

If you remember, I don't know if people

2:38

remember this, but they were just clowning

2:43

on Sony publicly for how poor their

2:43

security practices were.

2:46

And they had ripped a bunch of emails and

2:46

passwords out of them and they're making

2:51

funny videos. And they started accepting donations in

2:52

Bitcoin.

2:55

And I studied math before I left school.

3:01

And so I looked at the white paper and I

3:01

said, oh, a currency backed by math seems

3:07

good. People agree on math.

3:10

So I started buying. And every few months to a year, I felt

3:12

like I would have another eureka moment.

3:16

Like, oh, shit, Bitcoin is really going to

3:16

do it.

3:21

Like, it's, you know, there's a lot of

3:21

value here.

3:24

just for having different kind of moments

3:24

of clarity.

3:30

And so I started organizing community

3:30

around Bitcoin pretty early in

3:35

Philadelphia and a little bit in Portland

3:35

before I left.

3:39

I came back home, I'm from Philly, and

3:39

actually started making t -shirts that

3:46

were like, I sold for Bitcoin, and one of

3:46

them is a Silk Road shirt.

3:52

that actually if you've seen the Silk Road

3:52

documentary that Alex Winter made from

3:57

Bill and Ted, which is a great, great one.

4:00

I think it's called Deep Web.

4:03

Amir Taki, who's like a Bitcoin core dev,

4:03

kind of a wild guy.

4:09

He fought with the Peshmerga and he's just

4:09

been all over the world, but he is wearing

4:15

my Pirate Printing Company Silk Road shirt

4:15

in that movie.

4:19

So. So I was pretty early and then learned

4:21

about NFTs through a co -organizer of my

4:27

Bitcoin group in Philly. He took me to this, it turns out, famous

4:29

event in January of 2018 in New York where

4:38

I saw Matt Hall and John Pence from

4:38

CryptoPunks and I saw the Dada folks and

4:46

Decentraland and RarePepaG community and

4:46

just was sort of

4:50

pushed right into the deep end of the NFT

4:50

scene at the time and went home, bought

4:56

CryptoPunks and just kind of like started

4:56

working on a project that I never

5:00

launched, a Tulip NFT, which we maybe

5:00

we'll launch it one day.

5:04

We always say, this is the spring, but it

5:04

hasn't happened yet.

5:07

So, you don't want to launch something

5:07

bad, not on the blockchain.

5:13

Yeah, that's incredible. There's a couple threads I want to pick on

5:15

there, especially like there's the whole

5:19

coordination that pizza doubt. But early on, I think the essence of the

5:20

Web3 before you, it was even called Web3,

5:25

the crypto community before it was even

5:25

called that it was just Bitcoin.

5:29

And a lot of that happened early at these

5:29

meetups and from organizers there.

5:35

And a lot of times with, you know, big,

5:35

you know, billion dollar blockchains and

5:39

now professionally event organizers, it

5:39

takes way more.

5:44

capital to do something so simple. But back in the day, it was way more lean,

5:45

way more just do it at a train station and

5:51

bring some pizza. So can you kind of outline what the

5:53

culture was and how those early meetups

5:57

started? It's hilarious you said train station,

5:58

because that is exactly where I hosted the

6:04

Philly meetups, was that 30th Street train

6:04

station.

6:07

And it's funny how it came full circle,

6:07

because we would actually just push tables

6:10

together outside the Pizza Hut in the

6:10

train station.

6:16

And it would be like 30 people, sometimes

6:16

a little more, sometimes a little less,

6:20

and just exchanging information.

6:24

And now we come full circle, Pizza DAOs

6:24

throwing these like,

6:27

We throw a 700 person pizza party in

6:27

Denver and like comparing that to, you

6:34

know, a bunch of people pushing together

6:34

tables in a public train station outside

6:39

of Pizza Hut. Yeah, we've definitely come a long way.

6:44

Yeah, I mean, and there's still meetups

6:44

like that.

6:46

I think it's to the very core.

6:49

So is there like, how did that original

6:49

outreach happen?

6:53

Are you doing stuff on Reddit forums? Are you reaching to the Bitcoin core devs?

6:58

What is the formation?

7:00

Is there programming involved?

7:02

So that was mostly through meetup.

7:05

Meetup was pretty huge back then.

7:07

I think it's still people still use it,

7:07

but it's not as huge.

7:10

I came back to Philly from Portland.

7:12

I was already going to a bunch of meetups

7:12

out there.

7:15

Like there were just tons of interesting ones. I went to this statistician meetup where I

7:17

learned tons of interesting stuff.

7:21

I went to, there were some Bitcoin meetups

7:21

out in Portland.

7:24

So I just hooked up with the Bitcoin

7:24

meetup and it was already going and I

7:29

became. I joined the organizing team because I was

7:30

just, you know, I was ready to educate and

7:35

I was ready to show up and help plan.

7:38

And I, you know, started bringing us to

7:38

the train station because it was just a

7:43

really easy place to meet.

7:47

And yeah, we built a Facebook page.

7:50

We built, I think we had a Twitter.

7:53

We may have posted on Bitcoin Talk.

7:58

But we would just go out to all the

7:58

different communities.

8:00

Like, did we post on Reddit? Maybe. I don't remember.

8:03

But Meetup drove a ton because people

8:03

would just go on Meetup and search

8:07

cryptocurrency. They would search Bitcoin. And we made sure we would do.

8:10

It's really just consistency, right? We would have an event at least every

8:12

month.

8:15

And eventually, people just, the word gets

8:15

out.

8:20

And how would you describe the culture of

8:20

the meetups and the ethos at this snapshot

8:27

in history? Is it more anarchist?

8:30

Is it more developer related? Is it people just wanting to learn?

8:34

Not so many devs, a couple devs, more

8:34

anarchist, libertarian, tech nerds,

8:46

revolutionaries, people who wanted to see

8:46

new systems developed on earth for

8:53

coordination. So we were talking about DAOs at these

8:55

early meetups.

9:00

And we didn't, I don't think we fully

9:00

understood that humans were the hands and

9:03

feet of DAOs. And we thought about DAOs as these more

9:04

autonomous entities that were even more

9:09

like living as code.

9:11

And maybe we'll get there actually.

9:13

But you know, we would talk about how

9:13

like, oh, it's a cell phone taxi, but you

9:17

know, in practice, we're definitely not

9:17

there.

9:21

And where we are now, it's DAOs are very

9:21

human.

9:26

So like what like were there early

9:26

attempts at you know, dialifying these

9:31

meetups or even dialifying organizations

9:31

and like what did what did that look like?

9:38

you repeat? There was a little lag. Yeah, like where were there early attempts

9:40

at like, dowifying, you know, these

9:45

meetups or any organizations that this

9:45

early on, like before the Snapshots and

9:50

the colonies and the, the, the, the

9:50

Aragon's and the tools that we have like

9:54

today, like what, what did that even begin

9:54

to look like on Bitcoin?

10:01

Like, you know, I was on the colored coins

10:01

mailing list and people were talking about

10:05

that stuff. And then when the ICOs started coming out,

10:06

you know, in, in 2017, like people were

10:11

talking about those, but in terms of like

10:11

community organizing, um, and treasury

10:17

management, we were definitely not.

10:21

Even we had no treasury and what

10:21

coordination there was, was within the

10:26

team of moderators. I mean, I do think that in some ways, um,

10:31

Internet communities are a precursor to

10:31

DAOs maybe in a weird sense, or at least I

10:38

think many of them maybe can be ported

10:38

into the DAO ecosystem.

10:46

Certainly admin controls and permissions

10:46

and ownerships, they vary across all the

10:54

different platforms, whether you're on

10:54

Meetup or Reddit or Facebook or now

10:59

Warpcast or... Or Twitter.

11:02

I think that control over admin keys is

11:02

pretty important.

11:08

I like another thing I do. I run a Facebook group in Philly which has

11:08

like 14 ,000 people in it these days

11:13

that's based in South Philly. And it's the third iteration because two

11:14

of them got deleted or or you know taken

11:21

over because of like admin control

11:21

problems so.

11:25

Maybe that's a bit of a rabbit hole, but I

11:25

do think there's something to be done

11:30

with. DAOs and access control to organization.

11:39

Yeah, OpSec and Managing Keys, especially

11:39

in these poorest organizations, are utmost

11:44

essential. And people stay at companies they're at

11:45

for two years.

11:50

And it's really hard for, especially a lot

11:50

of these things that come out of passion,

11:54

to keep these people engaged.

11:56

And when there's money and treasuries

11:56

involved, that's one of the biggest fears

12:00

of a lot of these crypto projects.

12:04

And you also mentioned color coins.

12:06

I don't want to go over that. That's some OG stuff I think a lot of

12:08

people in the audience won't recognize.

12:11

We have Ordinals nowadays, but there was

12:11

already Coins and there was Pepe's and all

12:18

this before Pepe's on Ethereum.

12:20

Can you kind of outline what those were

12:20

and how those emerged?

12:25

Colored coin was a labeling system for

12:25

Bitcoin, right?

12:31

And it was a way to like XCP actually used

12:31

this, these ideas, right?

12:37

That was Counterparty that issued the Rare

12:37

Pepe's.

12:43

So it was, you know, it was the precursor

12:43

to a lot of this stuff.

12:46

And I think it was made easier with

12:46

some...

12:51

with some later additions to like, I think

12:51

Taproot is a thing that really made

12:55

Ornoles feasible.

12:57

And now they're pushing for the Opcat

12:57

change as well, right?

13:00

Which just makes deploying it easier.

13:03

But this was the early strain of thought. Like, of course we were thinking about,

13:05

you know, how do we make anything on these

13:10

blockchains? Like that was always, I think, the goal.

13:16

Yes, so what kind of changed from the

13:16

realization of color coins to the event in

13:22

2018 and going home and buying crypto

13:22

punks on Ethereum?

13:26

Like what what was really enabled that

13:26

kind of allowed a new class of assets?

13:34

So I another legs like I heard going home

13:34

and buying CryptoPunks.

13:39

So what changed for me though like between

13:39

colored coins and that I think it was just

13:48

time and it was the ecosystem developing

13:48

and This was pretty early, I mean I was it

13:55

was January of 2018. So CryptoPunks had only been out for a few

13:56

months like they launched in I think mid

14:02

to late 2017. And I bought them, they were a hundred

14:04

bucks each, like 0 .1 to 0 .13 ETH was

14:11

what I was paying per punk. So it was like there was only, there was

14:13

CryptoKitties and there were CryptoPunks.

14:20

There were a bunch of like kind of crappy

14:20

early NFTs that maybe weren't so cool.

14:25

And then there was Dada and Decentraland.

14:30

And that was it. There were not so many.

14:33

projects out there. So, and we have hepes, right?

14:41

and then so when was kind of the gap

14:41

between this and Pizza DAO?

14:48

Like what actually happened? Was this a direct, hey, we like need,

14:50

we've already been doing this pizza thing,

14:54

we need, we'll do NFTs on it?

14:56

Like what was kind of the eureka moment?

15:01

I hung out in the punk community for

15:01

years, right?

15:04

On Discord. I'm a mod actually today since like, you

15:05

know, it's changed a lot over the years

15:10

and the NFT scene didn't really pop off

15:10

until 2020, like late 2020.

15:18

And I know, There's a lot of history there that people

15:19

don't really know that happened pretty

15:23

quickly, you know, month after month that

15:23

I think is responsible for punks raising

15:27

in price and then the whole ecosystem that

15:27

kind of followed.

15:30

Um, and clubhouse was huge as a part of

15:30

this, I think for onboarding retail and

15:36

education. I was, I was pretty early to that.

15:40

I joined clubhouse in, well, I was

15:40

actually kind of late to clubhouse, uh,

15:44

but I was early to the NFT scene on

15:44

clubhouse and helped, I think helped

15:48

really. Kick it off because I had a lot of

15:49

knowledge from having been in Ecosystem so

15:55

long and there was just not that much

15:55

stuff to know and I knew it So I just

15:59

shared my knowledge on Clubhouse from I

15:59

think I joined in November 2020 and Then

16:06

was I was just building community there

16:06

and so that was actually the seed of the

16:11

pizza doubt community It really came from

16:11

that Clubhouse NFT community

16:20

that's also a very historic piece of time,

16:20

especially with COVID.

16:24

Everyone's at home. Everyone's trying to get these exclusive

16:25

invites to club out.

16:28

I know people spend spending days actually

16:28

building communities and curating there.

16:32

And I've heard a lot of OG communities

16:32

come out of there, like people talk like C

16:37

club and things like that. were really like bred from the whole

16:39

clubhouse era.

16:44

So what was that kind of coordination of,

16:44

all right, we're going to do a Pizza DAO.

16:49

What was the origin?

16:52

Was it, okay, let's start doing meetups. Let's drop like a Rare Pepes NFT.

16:56

Like how was that kind of coordinated?

16:59

first, I was talking to people a lot about

16:59

building blockchain accounting systems for

17:05

small business so they could be tokenized

17:05

and owned locally.

17:09

Because from the beginning, for me,

17:09

cryptocurrency is about reinventing

17:14

economic systems for the future that we

17:14

want.

17:19

And that's about strong communities, which

17:19

I think is about locking wealth in

17:24

communities and also about

17:27

properly valuing the local commerce, which

17:27

I think our system doesn't do a perfect

17:33

job of because banks don't have the time

17:33

or inclination necessarily, right, to look

17:42

at a small business and understand what

17:42

its value is to the community because many

17:46

of those people working there don't even

17:46

live in that community the small business

17:50

is serving. So maybe moving that finance towards the

17:51

neighborhood.

17:55

is a good path.

17:58

So that was where I was coming from.

18:00

And people would just glaze over about

18:00

that.

18:03

Like it's just a lot. Whereas packaging that within a pizza box

18:05

is a lot more attractable for people.

18:16

So that was sort of how that developed for

18:16

me.

18:21

And... And I was already running a lot of rooms

18:22

on there.

18:24

So one day in one of my rooms, um, someone

18:24

brought up the, like this woman, Monica

18:31

brought up the idea of, of making an NFT

18:31

that was like the hash masks.

18:35

And I was like, Oh yeah, we'll make, you

18:35

know, Rare pizzas and we'll have an

18:40

individual artists for every topping.

18:42

And so we made this Google sheet that was

18:42

just open edit and we said, Hey, have that

18:47

it artists of clubhouse and if the artists

18:47

of clubhouse sign up for a topping.

18:51

And we had a hundred people sign up in the

18:51

first few days and opened a Discord which

18:57

grew to hundreds of members really

18:57

quickly.

19:00

And then we increased our toppings.

19:03

We allowed 200 and then we settled on

19:03

letting 314 artists in.

19:10

And this happened February 18th.

19:14

I started talking about Pizzadel a lot in

19:14

January of 2021, but the Discord...

19:21

launched in February, February 18th.

19:24

We had an NFT actually we launched on

19:24

March 15th and the initial sale raised

19:30

like a bit over 300 ETH.

19:33

And then two months later we threw our

19:33

first global pizza party.

19:37

So it was super fast.

19:41

you

19:47

already NFT poppings? Was this right before then was by the

19:49

smart chain out where people doing like

19:53

pancake swap and names like, OK, OK,

19:53

that's that's where we were.

19:56

was we were right after hash masks aren't

19:56

we really starting to TV for board apes?

20:03

and There were there were not that many

20:03

projects yet, you know punks were really

20:10

Becoming noticed and understood especially

20:10

because everyone was wearing their punk on

20:15

Twitter and on Clubhouse and then You

20:15

know, so we launched right before

20:22

the kind of like PFP season really hit and

20:22

took hold after the board apes.

20:30

Binance punks had just minted and I

20:30

remember all the crypto punks were

20:34

complaining and I was telling them, y 'all

20:34

like the whole point is that we have

20:38

provenance, who cares? So actually illegalpunks .com is a website

20:41

where I've archived some of the memes they

20:46

were making, which I thought were pretty

20:46

funny.

20:51

So, Yeah.

20:53

So we were just right at the beginning of

20:53

that.

20:56

And then it was this crazy rush to

20:56

onboard, um, pizzerias for May 22nd and to

21:06

distribute the money and get everyone

21:06

their stickers and their brand packages

21:11

and like, and really spread the word.

21:13

And, and it, yeah, we ended up spending, I

21:13

think we, we deployed like $300 ,000 on

21:20

May 22nd. 2021 directly to pizzerias.

21:27

Well, and so that was the initial launch

21:27

was the NFT sale and then actual Global

21:33

Pizza Day. Can you go over a little bit?

21:35

We have Global Pizza Day coming up again,

21:35

you know, May 22nd, it's March now.

21:41

And so what is Global Pizza Day?

21:44

What's kind of the significance behind

21:44

that date?

21:48

Bitcoin Pizza Day is a celebration of the

21:48

first Bitcoin exchange for real world

21:54

good, which was pizza. This guy, Laszlo Hanyic, he traded 10 ,000

21:55

Bitcoin for two pizzas.

21:59

And this was May 22nd, 2010.

22:02

So, you know, very early. It actually took him four days to get the

22:04

pizzas.

22:07

He posted on May 18th. And then this guy, Jeremy Sturdivant is

22:09

his name.

22:12

He ended up Buying the pizzas from Papa John's for he

22:13

called in the order on his behalf.

22:17

So we celebrate that because You know,

22:17

that is the first time that we really

22:21

exchanged anyone exchange cryptocurrency

22:21

for something quote -unquote Useful or you

22:26

know or in the real world I joke that it's

22:26

like when the metaverse reached out and

22:30

touched the physical world and So we

22:30

celebrate that because It's you know,

22:37

what's global the Internet's global

22:37

Cryptocurrency Bitcoin is global

22:42

And pizza is global. So these are three easy things to connect

22:43

the world around.

22:48

And they're also hard to disagree with, I

22:48

think.

22:51

The internet is here. I think we like it.

22:55

Pizza is good. And cryptocurrency is here to stay.

22:59

So these are three easy things that I

22:59

think the whole world can come together

23:03

and throw a pizza around. I mean, a pizza party around, yeah.

23:08

Throw a pizza. Yeah, and so can you kind of talk about

23:10

that coordination?

23:13

Like what was the initial outreach for

23:13

like, I remember getting involved, we did

23:19

a pizza day in Africa and it was like, it

23:19

was kind of incredible to see different

23:23

nodes pop up and there just be a system

23:23

for reusing the branding, how to reach out

23:29

to community partners, like Discord

23:29

onboarding, and then really coordinating

23:34

around having like hundreds of cities

23:34

throw a pizza party.

23:38

So like, what was that? logistic wise, like early on look like.

23:43

The first year, the first year it was

23:43

COVID.

23:45

So we did a totally different, we went

23:45

directly to pizzerias because we couldn't

23:49

host events in most places.

23:51

The people weren't going to gather. So we actually called pizzerias and we

23:52

said, hey, we'd like to buy $500 a pizza,

24:00

but we actually want you to just give it

24:00

away.

24:03

And we're going to tip $125 on top for the

24:03

trouble because we know it's not easy to

24:09

just go out and give pizza away. But you know.

24:12

And they were like, what? And they would transfer us to the manager

24:13

and we would convince them and show them,

24:17

you know, tell them the story and then

24:17

send them the money ultimately and, and

24:21

the graphics and you know, they gave away

24:21

pizza and they had a lot of fun.

24:25

So, so the first year was really focused. It was almost like an airdrop to local

24:27

pizzerias of like, you know, $300,000 in

24:34

pizza that they got to give away. Um, we also bought $55,000 worth of slice

24:36

codes.

24:40

I think we're $20 or $25 at a time and

24:40

just distributed them like crazy, like

24:47

online, just sent them everywhere.

24:50

FaZe Clan gave a ton of them out on Twitch

24:50

streams.

24:53

We gave a ton out to Twitter. We gave them to celebrities.

24:56

It was hilarious. We bought, if you remember, Anthony

24:58

Pompuliano launched his Bitcoin pizza

25:03

brand that year and there were 10 ,000

25:03

Bitcoin pizzas.

25:08

We actually purchased 10 % of the supply and miracle them to the

25:09

people who ordered them.

25:15

They got their pizza for free from pizza

25:15

now.

25:17

So that was the first year. The second year, we realized that we could

25:19

actually throw events.

25:23

So we sort of transitioned and focused.

25:27

We still did a lot of pizzeria support,

25:27

but we focused more on bringing people

25:30

together. And that's the direction that it's taken

25:31

since.

25:35

you know, the third year we just did, we

25:35

had 116 cities.

25:40

I think the year before we probably did

25:40

like 60, you know, somewhere between 60

25:43

and 80. And, you know, and now we're looking at

25:45

150.

25:47

So how we coordinate that is spreadsheets

25:47

and it's like, it's Google docs, it's

25:54

telegram chats, and it's, it's Figma for,

25:54

for, um, assets and it's Twitter.

26:01

for some announcements to the global

26:01

community.

26:03

It's a website to direct people.

26:06

GlobalPizzaParty.xyz has a list of all the

26:06

cities so people can kind of funnel into

26:11

their local. And then we used Eventbrite to post the

26:12

events, or some people used Luma.

26:17

And that was kind of the stack, like

26:17

organizationally.

26:23

We used Mercury to do our...

26:28

you know, our banking, which has been

26:28

really useful because we can mint debit

26:32

cards. So that was really great.

26:35

People, you know, we could give a local

26:35

host their own debit card, just send them

26:39

a screenshot of a virtual card that we

26:39

minted that had a limit on it of what we

26:43

expected them to spend. But like really it kind of it came back to

26:46

a ton of spreadsheets and telegram chats

26:52

fundamentally. Yeah, and I remember even on the

26:53

spreadsheets people kind of requesting

26:58

funds and they're like they're being fiat

26:58

options They're being options on polygon

27:02

and x -dai there was it was really

27:02

accommodating to like whatever you need to

27:06

get this pizza Pizza DAO got you and That

27:06

yeah, that's that's incredible So how does

27:12

that work in terms of like people always

27:12

ask me and the first time I heard about

27:16

Pizza DAO was I ended up being at a Pizza

27:16

DAO

27:19

party in Miami, I think early Basel a

27:19

couple of years ago.

27:23

So this might have been like before the

27:23

second global pizza day.

27:27

And then I was like, what? Like there's a pizza, there's a pizza down

27:29

that gives away pizza?

27:32

Like what? That's, crypto is awesome.

27:34

Like Web3 is awesome. And yeah.

27:37

And then one of the main questions is

27:37

like, how does pizza now still have money

27:42

for all this pizza?

27:44

Yeah. So the answer is we sold our NFT.

27:47

It's actually still for sale. So people are still minting it every now

27:49

and RarePizzas.com/mint I think one day it

27:53

will mint out. People will realize that we're a historic

27:54

organization, a DAO that has really

28:00

delivered a lot of pizza. So that's how we built our initial

28:02

treasury and we continue to get some

28:06

sales. But we've actually really transitioned.

28:08

We get a ton of sponsorship and grant

28:08

support these days because...

28:13

We're bringing out we're doing two events

28:13

a month almost now at conferences and

28:18

we're bringing out routinely, you know 150

28:18

300 in Denver 700, you know huge amounts

28:24

of people and we're pretty good We're

28:24

pretty good at throwing pizza parties.

28:27

I gotta say like we've been throwing a lot

28:27

we have thrown hundreds of pizza parties

28:32

as a global community at this point, so

28:32

Yeah, we our pizza parties are pretty much

28:38

break even, you know, it's not like we're

28:41

And it's a lot of volunteers. It's a lot of volunteer effort.

28:45

We're doing our best to start to pay our

28:45

community.

28:48

And you can even check mafia .rarepieces

28:48

.com has like our four payment epics that

28:54

we've done so far. And we've been starting to build in some

28:56

of our costs like on our events, but we're

29:00

really breaking even. These events are not making big money for

29:01

the DAO, but we, I mean.

29:08

We wouldn't do it any other way. Like these events have been great.

29:11

I think, I think we're doing a lot for the

29:11

community.

29:14

We're doing a lot for, for pizza down. You know, everybody knows us now having

29:16

from all these events we've thrown.

29:19

It's been, it's been quite a transition

29:19

over the years from like, Oh wow.

29:23

Pizza down. Like what? That's silly. That sounds fun.

29:25

What's that too? I, Oh, pizza now.

29:29

Like you, you fed me pizza. Oh, sorry.

29:31

Bad podcast etiquette. Um, you, you fed me pizza in like,

29:36

You know, in Miami, in Dubai, in who

29:36

knows, you know?

29:41

And that's really rewarding, actually.

29:46

Now it's been a beautiful thing.

29:49

I've seen you everywhere. I've been working at Nia for a long time.

29:52

We've been supporting in terms of pizza

29:52

parties.

29:55

I think we did one most recently at

29:55

Lisbon.

29:58

I saw you on the street randomly in

29:58

Singapore on to another pizza party.

30:03

I'm like, what? Max? It wasn't even near any venue space.

30:07

I was like, what? We got a pizza party there.

30:10

I remember seeing in Vietnam.

30:13

And so where have your...

30:16

been your most memorable pizza doubt

30:16

moments in the world and where has the

30:21

pizza taken you? man, for me, I mean, traveling, like we

30:22

did a little, there were a ton of events

30:28

in Asia over in Southeast Asia, right?

30:31

Last year. So that trip was really amazing.

30:35

Just like when I, our Korean community has

30:35

been huge from the very beginning.

30:42

Actually, like I think almost 10 % of the

30:42

pizza toppings on our NFT were made by.

30:48

Korean artists because one of our really

30:48

early members, Wadji, is he just knows

30:53

everybody over there and was super early

30:53

to NFTs.

30:56

And he's like a very successful rapper.

31:00

He's a great dude. And so going there and getting to meet our

31:02

community there and then, you know, and

31:09

then hitting Singapore and just starting

31:09

to meet the Pizza DAO hosts from all over

31:16

the world. Like I would just be going around and, oh, like, oh my God, you

31:17

know, you hosted the event in Indonesia

31:24

or, you know, or, and, um, like getting to

31:24

put like a hug even on like this, this

31:32

telegram, um, name that I've been

31:32

interacting with was, I mean, incredible.

31:39

Uh, so just, so that's like the most

31:39

rewarding thing for me is being at an

31:45

event somewhere in the world. and meeting a host from one, you know,

31:47

from two hosts from different parts of the

31:52

world and getting to introduce them to each other. Be like, oh, pizza mafia, Frankfurt, you

31:54

know, meet pizza mafia, Maui, you know,

32:00

like that. And then, and then they can tell each

32:01

other, right?

32:04

Their pizza mafia name, you know, which

32:04

immediately they know the other person's

32:07

favorite topping and like their, their

32:07

mafia movie.

32:09

Have you gotten a pizza now, a pizza mafia

32:09

name?

32:14

Nah, I don't have the pizza mafia name,

32:14

no.

32:19

I like mushrooms.

32:21

what's your favorite mafia movie? I like it's been it's been a while

32:24

honestly I used to consume a lot of

32:29

content but um Yeah, I don't I don't

32:29

really I don't really remember maybe maybe

32:38

Scarface is a good choice.

32:40

So then, I think we have a mushroom

32:40

Montana, but I don't think, oh, and we

32:47

have a mushroom Pacino, but I don't think

32:47

we have a Manolo mushroom.

32:55

Is that me? Did I just?

32:57

Okay, I gotta get back on Discord.

32:59

I'm just now getting back on Discord.

33:01

I've completely converted to Telegram, but

33:01

I need to claim the name.

33:06

using both. You could also become a junior.

33:10

Sometimes we could be like mushroom,

33:10

Pacino Jr., which is kind of funny.

33:16

But Manolo mushroom is pretty sick, man.

33:20

Double M. But yes, speaking on the thread of just

33:22

international expansion and going around

33:28

the world, I mean, it's incredible.

33:31

Just as a volunteer effort alone, I think

33:31

international NGOs should be studying

33:36

Pizza DAO to see how people coordinate and

33:36

how people are truly passionate about the

33:41

mission. And yeah, so how does that coordination

33:42

work and what are some unexpected like...

33:48

places where pizza parties have been

33:48

thrown that people would be surprised that

33:53

this is happening.

33:55

So yeah, bringing people together is about

33:55

finding, you just need one person who is

34:03

passionate about throwing the party and

34:03

you need the right, like I think our

34:08

number, which we say, look, we have $625

34:08

towards you buying pizza and throwing a

34:13

pizza party. I think it's a great number where it's

34:14

like, that is enough money to have a

34:18

pretty decent pizza party. Like you can get a bunch of pizza for

34:19

that. So it's.

34:22

So it's an offer they can't refuse, I

34:22

think, a little bit, right?

34:25

It's like, hey, here's $625, go throw a

34:25

pizza party, and then we throw in a bunch

34:32

of marketing material and a deck and do

34:32

all, you know, we have all the design, all

34:37

the hard parts are sort of like set. We have a template for the event, you

34:39

know, we make it, we really put you on

34:42

rails to have a solid event, and we give

34:42

you an opportunity to grow your

34:47

organization, right? Because like,

34:49

Most of the people who end up coordinating

34:49

our local events are already local

34:53

community leaders. That's the point. We, we, the first thing I ask my local

34:54

contact is, Hey, who are the local

34:59

blockchain community leaders in your, you

34:59

know, in your city, let's get them all in

35:03

a room. Then let's say, where should we throw this

35:04

event?

35:07

Then let's say, are there any companies

35:07

that we have relationships with that might

35:11

want to have a presence at the event that

35:11

could help us go a little bigger?

35:13

You know, maybe $625 is not going to buy

35:13

enough pizza.

35:18

for how many people are gonna come. Maybe we wanna have drinks for them.

35:22

Maybe we wanna have entertainment. Maybe we wanna go for a venue.

35:25

Who knows, right? So we give people all the tools to do

35:26

that.

35:30

And it grows their local scene when we

35:30

give them the tools.

35:35

Like our partner organizations get to

35:35

scale, especially like the locals get to,

35:41

if they bring on sponsors, then guess what? Those sponsors can help them throw

35:43

blockchain community events all year.

35:47

And they can even, And those companies can even program those

35:48

community events with the, you know,

35:53

whatever they want devs to be working on

35:53

with their API.

35:55

Like they can start to build those

35:55

relationships with that, which I think

35:58

it's super important for actually building

35:58

things in the ecosystem.

36:03

So like I was talking to, you know,

36:03

college now was telling me he grew his,

36:08

um, his university base from 41 to like

36:08

84, just from the kind of Pizza DAO

36:15

onboarding. Um,

36:17

message. So it's about I think it's just about

36:19

incentives and and it's and it's really

36:24

simple that people want to get together. They want to build community.

36:28

They want to connect around these ideas

36:28

and technologies and we just give them the

36:36

rails and we and we and we make it as easy

36:36

as possible.

36:40

And then I mean it's just so easy to be a

36:40

pizza doll compared to.

36:46

a more abstract DAO.

36:49

Like that we can say, look, we're pizza

36:49

DAO and we throw a global pizza party and

36:53

we throw pizza parties. It's hard to argue with.

36:57

And it's easy to get behind. No, it really is a beautiful experience,

36:59

especially doing that in Morocco where

37:05

honestly, like crypto is low key outlawed

37:05

and having a scene and even educating is

37:12

very under the wraps and coming especially

37:12

like I traveled everywhere where crypto is

37:18

hot and it's popping in there's community

37:18

and having being in a place that's dope

37:22

but has no real community. It was, it's pretty awesome to bring

37:24

people together.

37:27

And I see like PizzaDAO as one of the

37:27

onboarding mechanisms for bringing up

37:35

regional communities without shilling a

37:35

block chain or getting too technical and

37:40

kind of showing that real use case.

37:42

So in terms of like where like, so where

37:42

are kind of the most far off cities or

37:50

villages that you guys got into and then

37:50

where you try to target this upcoming

37:55

Pizza Day. we have some amazing photos from Easter

37:55

Island from the first year of people with

38:01

our brand and with the pizza, like in

38:01

front of the Stoneheads or Rapa Nui, I

38:06

guess is how a lot of people know it. And like actually we in Latam, I think

38:09

pizza, I think the blockchain community as

38:15

a whole has a lot of opportunity in Latam

38:15

I think it's a region that has unstable

38:21

currencies, unstable governments. Everybody speaks Spanish.

38:25

A lot of Americans speak Spanish. I speak Spanish.

38:28

Like a lot of people in pizza now speak

38:28

Spanish.

38:30

And so, and our coordinator in Ruben, Don

38:30

Malbec from Chile is just, I mean, he's,

38:37

he's phenomenal at bringing people

38:37

together.

38:40

He's been crushing it. Um, he, so he also brought us to the top

38:42

of a volcano.

38:47

Is so like, there's a guy who makes pizza

38:47

on a volcano.

38:50

So the pizza party was on the volcano. We.

38:53

I mean, in South Africa, we have this

38:53

footage of kids in Lesotho, many of whom

38:57

are having like their first pizza. That was really amazing.

39:02

We were working on getting to Antarctica

39:02

every year.

39:05

We joke like that we're going to get,

39:05

there's this Chilean research facility in

39:08

Antarctica and like, we're going to get

39:08

there.

39:10

We try, we've been trying to get into

39:10

space also because Cyan Proctor was like a

39:15

friend of ours pretty early. Um, she had an NFT called the, uh, the

39:16

mutt necks, I think they were called.

39:21

And, um, So, but you know, I mean, I can tell you

39:23

the smallest pizza party last year was

39:28

three people in Billings, Montana.

39:30

And like one of them had to drive quite a

39:30

ways.

39:33

Um, the biggest was 307 in, uh, in

39:33

Argentina and in Buenos Aires.

39:41

So like, um, we're, I mean, this year

39:41

we're really starting to dig into like we

39:50

have, you know, five cities in India.

39:53

I'm working to have more, like, I think we

39:53

have five or six signed up for China.

39:59

So you asked me, yeah, where are we trying

39:59

to go?

40:01

We're really focused on the Middle East.

40:05

We're focused on Africa. We're focused on Asia.

40:08

We think we can really grow our presence

40:08

there because these are, I mean, it's a

40:12

huge, you know, Americans, like we don't

40:12

know beyond the first five cities in

40:17

China, but that's missing, you know,

40:17

that's missing a billion people.

40:23

that are in these other cities. It's a huge place.

40:26

And they have pizza in all of these

40:26

cities.

40:30

So we're really focused. I mean, I'm gonna pull up, actually we

40:31

have a chart.

40:34

If you go to parties.pizzadao.xyz anyone

40:34

can actually do this.

40:39

And that's our big master, our spreadsheet

40:39

of all of the events.

40:44

And if we look at the chart, like, yeah,

40:44

so we had seven cities in the Middle East

40:48

signed up. We have 12 in Africa.

40:51

I want to double those numbers. We have 26 in Asia.

40:54

I think we could double that number.

40:57

52 in North America, like we're doing

40:57

pretty well.

41:00

16 in South America, 13 in Central

41:00

America, we could onboard some more.

41:05

36 in Europe, pretty solid. But Eastern Europe, we could do more.

41:11

And to anyone who's listening, if you're

41:11

in a place that we don't have a party, the

41:16

offer is real. We have $625 for you to spend on pizza.

41:20

on May 22nd to bring together your local

41:20

community around Bitcoin Pizza Day.

41:25

Like we are ready and willing. Just join our Discord, tag us on Twitter,

41:26

pizza underscore DAO, globalpizzaparty

41:32

.xyz. Yeah, and it's an amazing like offer,

41:37

especially like pizzas are so cheap

41:41

everywhere else, like 600.

41:43

Like even if we're throwing a party of 50

41:43

people, we're going to one venue, giving

41:48

everyone pizza, going to another even like

41:48

could not run out of pizza.

41:53

And I mean, there are also cultures

41:53

associated with the pizza party.

41:57

Let's not kind of go over that.

42:00

There's... the whole stacking of the pizzas. Can you kind of explain, like, there's a

42:02

pizza album, music to play, that's all

42:06

pizza related. How did that come about?

42:08

There's like teenage ninja turtles that

42:08

are doing kick flips over pizza boxes.

42:13

So like, what is, how did all this pizza

42:13

folklore kind of start around and the

42:18

culture and the art around this?

42:20

its own origin story. So like why do we have Ninja Turtles?

42:23

It's actually because In the early days we

42:23

were planning for our our New York party

42:31

and we talked to Andrew Wang about it if

42:31

you remember Andrew Wang who he's still

42:36

around I think he was like doing a lot and

42:36

he was like how do we make this party more

42:40

crazy like we gotta make and we said ah

42:40

Well, we'll hire Ninja Turtles and so, you

42:44

know, it's eight hundred forty dollars to

42:44

hire for Ninja Turtles for an hour.

42:47

I And we do, it's really worth it.

42:51

It's amazing. It's hilarious. So we do that.

42:54

Why do we stack pizza boxes? We threw this party at the Lambo

42:56

dealership in New York, which was just a

43:01

hilarious party. We put like a pizza delivery topper on the

43:02

Lambo.

43:06

And one of the pizza down members asked me

43:06

during the party, like, what do we do with

43:11

the boxes? And I was like, dude, we throw them out. Like, what are you thinking?

43:13

And then I thought to myself for a second,

43:13

I was like, you're a genius, you know,

43:16

we're going to stack the boxes. And so ever since that event, actually,

43:18

which was at NFT NYC 2023, we have started

43:26

to stack the boxes. And it's great because nobody does that

43:28

for like, I mean, we get to, you don't

43:36

need anything to rep Pizza DAO, except a

43:36

bunch of pizza boxes.

43:40

Like it's, you know, it's such a cheap

43:40

kind of symbol of the DAO to make a stack

43:45

of pizza boxes. And the volume and we're in a unique

43:47

position. Like what do we have?

43:49

A lot of empty pizza boxes. Like we're eating a lot of pizza.

43:52

So, um, that's been hilarious.

43:54

Like I was watching the global zoom and

43:54

Vienna and Berlin were having their party

43:59

at the same time and looking at each other

43:59

on the zoom and competing to have a higher

44:04

stack of boxes. Like literally you have people in Berlin

44:05

going to pick up more pizza because they

44:10

need their stack to be higher than the one

44:10

in Vienna.

44:13

It was hilarious. Um,

44:18

Yeah, we had actual ceiling limits.

44:21

We already had hit the ceiling and we had

44:21

to like, like actually like start a new

44:25

one. We were in like a low gamer studio.

44:29

But yeah, like what, I see a lot of, I

44:29

mean, we didn't, we didn't mention the

44:36

pizza DAO-lbum or you call it a DAO-lbum?

44:38

community mixtape, which everyone can

44:38

check out.

44:41

It's at mixtape.pizzadao.xyz Or if you

44:41

just search Rare Pizzas Volume 1, it's on

44:47

Spotify. It's on all the platforms.

44:49

And it is way better than it has any right

44:49

to be.

44:52

And then we also have a house band.

44:55

They're called Pizza Collection.

44:57

They're actually Philadelphians. I happened to have gone to school.

45:00

I didn't know that she was in this band.

45:02

But one of the band members, her

45:05

Her older brother's also in the band. She was a year below me in high school.

45:09

So in Philly.

45:11

So I got introduced to them.

45:14

I'm actually forgetting who introduced me,

45:14

but I mean, they're, they're hilarious.

45:19

They have like two or 300 pizza covers of

45:19

famous songs.

45:26

So yeah. And they're NST holders.

45:28

They've performed in our events. Um, they are, they are members of the DAO.

45:32

So we, we joke that there are pizza, DAO

45:32

house band.

45:35

What and then other I mean we have so much

45:35

lore that we've built up over the years

45:39

like we you know we play that's a more a

45:39

the the Dean Martin song at the end of

45:45

every community call because when the moon

45:45

hits her I like a big pizza pie that's a

45:51

more you know so There's uh there's some

45:51

there's a lot of sauce to draw on I mean

45:58

pizza is really a rich you know it's a

45:58

rich a rich culture and

46:04

Like pizza down, who do we follow on Twitter? Right?

46:06

We follow Bitcoin pizza, this account that

46:06

tweets the price of the 10 ,000 pizzas.

46:10

We follow a Molto Benny, our mascot, the

46:10

three -eyed pizza, because Molto Bene, you

46:15

know, he's Molto Bene. And then we follow our NFT Rare pizzas and

46:16

we follow the fourth account is Neil

46:22

Stevenson. And we follow Neil Stevenson because Snow

46:23

Crash, the kind of introduction of the

46:30

term metaverse, right, to the world.

46:33

One of the primary entities in the Snow

46:33

Crash future is, you know, the, quote

46:38

unquote, the pizza mafia and Uncle Enzo,

46:38

who kind of runs it.

46:43

And they play a large role in the book. So that's also, you know, we really tap

46:45

into that as well.

46:52

I love to see the proliferation of

46:52

culture.

46:55

I mean, I also notice everywhere I go, I

46:55

see you repping the noggles and the nouns.

47:00

And there's a bunch of tangential

47:00

communities that either like co -organize

47:04

events or that have a lot of, you know,

47:04

alignment in values.

47:09

So can you kind of speak on like you

47:09

mentioned, like, you know, oh, yeah.

47:14

I go. Oh wow, I need to get me a pair.

47:22

It'll look way better with the get up.

47:25

But yeah, you have all these changes. You mentioned crypto punks, you got the

47:26

Noggles Pizza DAO.

47:31

What are really communities you resonate

47:31

with?

47:34

And was Nouns in tangent with pizza?

47:38

How did that kind of evolve? I mean, I watched Nouns launch.

47:41

You know, I've known 4156 from, not

47:41

personally.

47:45

I mean, we know each other, but not like

47:45

super well.

47:47

I don't chat with him or anything. But I watched him launch Nouns.

47:51

I was really inspired by it. I thought it was super awesome.

47:54

And, you know, the idea of Nouns Dao for

47:54

me, it's kind of this meta Dao.

48:00

And that was how I thought about Pizza

48:00

Dao.

48:02

Like we put the word pizza in front of Dao

48:02

and then we go for it.

48:07

And we saw that as a model for any

48:07

community to take a word, put it in front

48:12

of Dao, and then try and live up to the

48:12

shelling point of that word.

48:17

Right? And what a Dao. And the way I think of it is like, you

48:19

know, pizza is our boss, sort of, you

48:24

know? So what does pizza want was always what

48:24

guided our early community.

48:30

What does pizza want? do you think?

48:36

That's what everyone says.

48:38

So like we immediately have alignment.

48:44

So then pizza DAO's mission is to make

48:44

sure that pizza gets eaten.

48:47

And so that's like that's strong

48:47

alignment.

48:50

And I think with any DAO maybe this is a

48:50

useful question to ask.

48:55

So like we've been saying what does a noun

48:55

want?

48:59

I've been saying I think is really an

48:59

interesting one.

49:04

What do you think? to be used in referenced everywhere.

49:13

trickier, I think, but, but yeah, along

49:13

those, I say to mean something, which is

49:17

basically what you said to mean something

49:17

is kind of what I've been pushing as the,

49:22

which I think is, is sort of what now is,

49:22

is accomplishing, right?

49:24

Is to, is to be this symbol of a certain

49:24

type of collaboration and of CC0 And so I

49:32

also, I mean, I really believe in the CC0

49:32

idea.

49:35

I think humans. Uh, I think permissionless collaboration

49:36

is, is really strong.

49:40

You don't know when somebody is going to

49:40

come along and have some energy to do a

49:45

sprint and improve a thing. And you want to make sure that they are in

49:47

a position to do that.

49:50

I think because if everyone is in a

49:50

position where they can see a thing that

49:55

needs improving and then get it done.

49:58

This planet is going to be way better.

50:01

So that's kind of how I, you know, I.

50:05

That's where I want us to go as a species

50:05

is to enable each other to improve our

50:11

surroundings because I think that's one of

50:11

the most fundamental pleasures of being a

50:15

human is just making incremental

50:15

improvements in how things are.

50:20

Like I have this laundry bin and I broke

50:20

the handle and then I used super glue and

50:25

I used it once and it broke again and then

50:25

I tried again and now it's been holding

50:28

and I get so much pleasure out of using my

50:28

mended laundry bin.

50:33

So I look at him like, look at that super

50:33

glue doing its work right now.

50:42

That's pretty inspirational.

50:46

I love what Nouns does. If people don't know the actual auction

50:47

system that Nouns has been doing, I think

50:51

it's a beautiful mechanism that's been

50:51

forked a lot and just kind of like a high

50:56

level overview. It's essentially a regular auction that

50:57

happens every day.

51:01

All the money goes to the treasury. Holders get to decide where that money

51:03

goes.

51:07

And essentially Creative Commons Zero

51:07

is...

51:10

making it the first open source brand

51:10

where people can proliferate that brand.

51:13

And there's been so much culture that's

51:13

actually not only been just driven by

51:18

lore, but actually funded. And there's been amazing initiatives.

51:21

And I know like Pizza DAO has probably

51:21

gotten some funding, you know, like Zora,

51:26

like Superbowl commercials. There's been so much and it's still going

51:28

on.

51:30

And there's now even like forks, like

51:30

Nouns Amigos and Public Nouns focused on

51:36

public goods and people iterating on, you

51:36

know, the auction.

51:40

original primitive. So it's one of the dopest things I've

51:41

seen.

51:45

What are your kind of favorite nouns

51:45

moments?

51:50

I just like when NounsDAO launched, I was

51:50

so impressed just with...

51:56

I mean, it was just such a perfect

51:56

execution.

51:59

I was just really...

52:01

was... Yeah, I was just happy that someone else

52:03

was doing it for the people.

52:08

Like, you know, this is something I would have... I felt like there was a weight off my

52:10

shoulders almost, right?

52:14

Like we needed NounsDAO and they made it.

52:17

And I just felt so happy that it existed.

52:20

And, and then, I mean, as it's developed,

52:20

like, I mean, we've worked with so many of

52:26

the nounish DAOs now, like Public Nouns

52:26

has supported PizzaDAO, Nouns Amigos has

52:32

supported PizzaDAO, GnarsDAO came to

52:32

Denver and, and Vlad, uh, allied over a

52:38

bunch of pizza boxes. It was hilarious.

52:41

Um, We're gonna we're working with Nouns

52:42

eSports We want to bring Smash Bros

52:46

tournaments to some of our pizza parties

52:46

this year on May 22nd.

52:50

I think it's going to be awesome. And like nouns, what I guess my favorite

52:54

thing is just seeing the Noggles's take

53:00

hold. Because yeah, there you know, it's been a

53:01

storied history, right, of nouns and there

53:08

have been disagreements in Noggles

53:08

communities and there have been.

53:12

And you know, people, but I just, what I

53:12

see is I see Noggles's catching hold.

53:18

I see the general population within the

53:18

ecosystem.

53:22

Really getting to like Noggles's like

53:22

people want to rep nouns because they like

53:30

what noun stands for. And I just see the, I just see it every

53:32

year.

53:35

It is more widespread and it is like the

53:35

proliferation is working.

53:39

It is, it is like.

53:42

It's going to win in the long term.

53:45

I love watching it. Yeah, I mean the the the Noggles is

53:52

iconic.

53:55

It is something that can be unicoded.

53:57

It is something that you can add to any

53:57

collection.

54:00

It's something that's open source.

54:03

Like, I mean, you know Russ, like Russ got

54:03

that tatted on him recently and he don't

54:07

even have it now. It's like...

54:10

Also, by the way, anyone watching, like

54:10

these are the are the awesome Salvino

54:13

Noggles. And I think you can get these for like

54:14

really cheap if you put a sweet Offer in

54:19

on OpenSea. This is some alpha that like I I'm going

54:20

to buy more myself.

54:24

So like just they're like I I know they're

54:24

so cheap.

54:28

I'm about to check out how cheap they are

54:28

these days, but they're called Nouns

54:31

Visions and they are the dopest way to rep

54:31

nouns, I think.

54:36

how much they are. Yeah, you guys also at the latest Denver

54:39

party had like the cardboard noggles too,

54:46

some nouns tattoos.

54:49

It was pretty dope.

54:52

And the one thing I like about pizza dot

54:52

party is like even if like some people say

54:56

pizza's not disagreeable and then they're

54:56

like, well, I'm allergic to gluten and I'm

55:01

vegan free. They have that. They always have that.

55:04

And that's like one of the most, I think,

55:04

respectable things.

55:07

I'm like that and yeah, Pizza DAO has all

55:07

types of pizza.

55:10

Like don't get it twisted. Like Pizza DAO got everything.

55:13

that's the beautiful thing about pizza. You can invite everybody to the pizza

55:14

party.

55:17

If you're a vegan, guess what? There are vegan cheese substitutes.

55:19

If you're gluten free, yeah, there's

55:19

gluten free pizza.

55:23

Although I think it's a little harder

55:23

because there is cross contamination for

55:26

people who are gluten free. So that's something that, you know, maybe

55:27

will ultimately help some of our pizzerias

55:32

to be better about that. I don't know.

55:34

I think that the pizzeria industry has

55:34

like a ways to go there.

55:38

But we do. We really...

55:41

We strive to be welcoming to everyone

55:41

because we want everybody at the pizza

55:45

party. What's the Noggles price by chance?

55:50

You find it? like 0 .02. Weeth people are letting them go recently.

55:53

Three of them sold for that, which I think

55:53

is super cheap.

55:56

And the floor is 0 .05, but I would put in

55:56

a Weeth offer.

55:59

So 0 .02, that's like what, 60 bucks?

56:06

Yeah, pretty goddamn cheap.

56:10

Yeah, it's pretty cheap. If you just look up Noggles right now,

56:11

it's like 20, 40 bucks for some general

56:17

generic stuff. So that's the deal.

56:22

Get your Noggles for...

56:25

I'll just have to miracle him a pair

56:25

because he deserves one.

56:34

Yeah. shout out to proof of vibes.

56:39

What, what, oh, what, so in terms of like,

56:39

like coordination, it's like, there's so

56:46

much going on. Like, what is like, what's your, what's

56:46

the day in the life of Snax?

56:51

Like, are you, are you, are you like doing

56:51

Pizza DAO full time or like, what's the

56:56

vibe on that? lot of my time. I mean, I have some other initiatives that

56:57

I'm working on in the back.

57:00

I'm also, I'm moving soon.

57:02

I've been renovating a house, which takes,

57:02

oh my God, I don't recommend it unless you

57:06

got contractors in the close friends or

57:06

family.

57:11

But a day in my life is like, I have this

57:11

49 inch screen in front of me.

57:16

Maybe I'll just let people see it.

57:20

So this is my...

57:25

My daily position is in front of this

57:25

screen and I have I have discord on the

57:31

left usually and I have telegram on the

57:31

right and then I have you know, two chrome

57:36

windows usually in the middle. So I have four windows across and I am

57:38

just fielding messages.

57:43

You know, replying to tweets, pushing

57:43

around numbers and spreadsheets and and

57:50

talking to people like you know now it's

57:50

busy season, so I'm having meetings.

57:56

You know, pretty much from when I wake up

57:56

to, to when I'm going to sleep a lot of

58:01

times, um, you know, I'll, I'll get some

58:01

hours in between, but, but it's, it's busy

58:05

season now, right? Cause it's March and May 22nd, like it's a

58:05

lot of coordination.

58:09

We've got to get a lot of people on the

58:09

same page.

58:11

So, um, I run Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,

58:11

I run a Twitter space at a nine AM Eastern

58:17

for an hour called the room about nothing,

58:17

which is actually.

58:20

That was the name of the room on clubhouse

58:20

that pizza now spawned out of.

58:23

So keeping that, that vibe going.

58:26

Um, but yeah, mostly I am just, you know,

58:26

besides like the normal stuff, cooking,

58:32

cleaning, um, seeing, you my local

58:32

community, my family and stuff, like,

58:37

yeah, I'm spending a lot of time on pizza

58:37

now.

58:40

Um, and it's, uh, it's a, it's a gift.

58:48

Honestly, it's, uh, it's.

58:51

Yeah, is it hard at times? Do I get stressed out?

58:54

Like, do we have catastrophes? Oh, absolutely, but...

59:00

There are moments where it just feels like

59:00

it is all totally worth it.

59:06

And those moments, I feel like they're

59:06

happening more and more frequently lately.

59:11

So I'm like, I don't know.

59:14

I'm feeling happy about the doubt.

59:20

Nah, the DAO is beautiful. Literally everywhere I go in the world,

59:22

Pizza DAO is the most reliable DAO.

59:26

I think it's inspiring. What you said earlier about having a word

59:28

in front of the DAO and then really going

59:33

and living up for that, I think Pizza DAO

59:33

has inspired a lot of that.

59:40

And yeah, I mean, even like, you know me

59:40

originally from Blunt DAO, I don't really

59:45

talk a lot about that, but even that in

59:45

itself, are there like...

59:50

Other examples of maybe word based dows

59:50

that you want to see, maybe other food

59:55

based dows. I heard of a ramen down or like what's if

59:56

you could manifest dows or give props to

1:00:01

dows that that you're seeing that you hope

1:00:01

live up to the name, what would they be?

1:00:09

Oh, okay, sorry, I got a lag spike. I was waiting. So if I could manifest a DAO, so we

1:00:11

actually, I have tacoDAO .ETH and tacoDAO

1:00:16

.XYZ and a bunch of the tacoDAO social

1:00:16

assets.

1:00:20

And we even joked on April Fool's last

1:00:20

year that we were switching our branding

1:00:24

to tacoDAO and like soft launch tacoDAO.

1:00:27

So ultimately I do want there to be a

1:00:27

tacoDAO, definitely.

1:00:34

And you know, like part of our mission

1:00:34

here, right, is building,

1:00:39

software for small businesses.

1:00:41

So if we build software for pizzerias and

1:00:41

if we build ownership and governance

1:00:46

solutions for pizzerias and we build real

1:00:46

estate investor syndicates for pizzerias,

1:00:51

I think it turns out that we actually have

1:00:51

built that for any small business because

1:00:56

they're not that different.

1:00:59

So ultimately, I would love to plug in

1:00:59

with all these other DAOs.

1:01:04

Like, GroundsDAO started recently.

1:01:07

My buddy Orin from Gnosis is spearheading

1:01:07

that and I'm super excited.

1:01:11

I don't know what form the DAO is going to

1:01:11

take, but there is already a NounsDAO Cafe

1:01:17

that is in the press of opening.

1:01:20

Drew Kaufman is doing that. There's a NounsDelhi in Melbourne that my

1:01:22

buddy Bones does.

1:01:27

So starting to stitch together, like

1:01:27

there's a Bored Ape, Bored and Hungry

1:01:31

brand. There are a ton of Bored Ape brands that I

1:01:31

think are kind of in the same ecosystem.

1:01:35

So, Starting to stitch this network of small

1:01:37

business and food focused Web3 ecosystem

1:01:45

players together is really exciting to me

1:01:45

because I think we're going to be able to

1:01:51

build amazing things.

1:01:59

Yeah, that makes me think it's like, I

1:01:59

mean, you guys have OG engineers within

1:02:04

the Pizza DAO community, but I haven't

1:02:04

really seen like, like kind of software

1:02:09

primitives to enable it. That's actually the first time I heard

1:02:10

like we need software to enable small

1:02:14

businesses like very onto the ethos you

1:02:14

were talking about earlier.

1:02:18

And so like for, you know, the Pizza DAO

1:02:18

community and devs that want to pay it

1:02:22

forward, like what, what do those

1:02:22

primitives look like?

1:02:26

What would be maybe the first Highland initiative that can be done to

1:02:28

maybe invest in a local pizzeria or create

1:02:35

this accounting and invoicing tool or

1:02:35

maybe pass sponsors, they actually build

1:02:40

these primitives. Like what do you envision the rollout of

1:02:41

the pizza labs?

1:02:45

so we want to build the entire small

1:02:45

business stack open source.

1:02:51

So that means everything from point of

1:02:51

sale to inventory to delivery to payroll

1:02:58

to social, like website, like the whole

1:02:58

stack.

1:03:05

And that's. In practice, I think that's going to be

1:03:06

about stitching together a bunch of other

1:03:10

projects products that actually work and

1:03:10

maybe building some bridges and building

1:03:13

some extra stuff here and there. One of the first, then there are a bunch

1:03:15

of like pizza hacks, which I think are

1:03:20

fun. And we've been talking a lot about lately,

1:03:20

just doing fun pizza focused hack

1:03:25

projects, because it turns out that you

1:03:25

can actually swap pizza in for like any

1:03:29

word in the context of making like a hack.

1:03:32

And it. can make it kind of fun and you're still

1:03:32

solving like maybe a math problem, maybe a

1:03:37

distribution or a supply chain problem,

1:03:37

but you're just using pizza as the flavor

1:03:42

on top. So I think like one thing we've talked

1:03:44

about is RSV .pizza we wanna make, which

1:03:48

is just like an ordering tool where guests

1:03:48

can say, this is the pizza I like.

1:03:52

And then the organizer gets a feed out

1:03:52

that says, this is the pizza you should

1:03:55

order. Although distribution at the party, I

1:03:56

think is its own problem there, because

1:03:59

the pizza all comes and then we know people go crazy. They just take all the pizza.

1:04:02

How do you make sure the person gets the

1:04:02

pizza they ordered at the event?

1:04:05

But you know something to think about

1:04:05

payroll though is what I think is a

1:04:09

really. It's it's it's a tractable portion of the

1:04:10

stack that I think we can actually deliver

1:04:15

on. We did it for the hackathon at eat Denver.

1:04:19

We actually we didn't get a lot of code

1:04:19

ship, but we did the whole design.

1:04:25

And the idea is just you clock in, you get

1:04:25

streamed USDC, you clock out and the

1:04:30

stream stops. Um, you know, and our Pizzeria partner,

1:04:31

um, Aaron from Williamsburg pizza, he

1:04:37

actually was open to trying it out. So I think we're going to ultimately build

1:04:39

that.

1:04:42

Um, you know, it's not, it's like a, you

1:04:42

know, it's maybe a hundred thousand dollar

1:04:50

in dev time kind of a project, you know,

1:04:50

whereas.

1:04:53

I think building a full point of sale, you

1:04:53

start looking at, it's a pretty big build.

1:05:00

That could be a million dollars.

1:05:08

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I feel like a lot of

1:05:08

primitives are there.

1:05:11

I mean, you got streaming, you got payment

1:05:11

like Opulence, you got Superfluid, you got

1:05:15

even on the point of sale system. I know a lot of people are working on

1:05:17

that. I think Solana Pay does that like pretty,

1:05:19

pretty well.

1:05:23

There is a lot of these primitives that

1:05:23

can be stitched together, but that is just

1:05:27

manifesting it here. I would love to see the whole pizza stack

1:05:28

come about too.

1:05:32

Also, I'm building a generalized purpose

1:05:32

funding stack too for public goods as

1:05:36

well. So a lot can be. reuse there, but no, that would be

1:05:38

awesome.

1:05:42

And I think, yeah, even syndicates for

1:05:42

pizzerias, that is something.

1:05:49

I mean, there are already tools that exist. There's syndicate, there's enzyme for

1:05:50

decentralized hedge funds, there's

1:05:55

PartyDAO. Have you guys explored that?

1:05:58

gonna do our first ones, I think just as

1:05:58

traditional like trad SPV type stuff.

1:06:04

We're gonna token gate participation to

1:06:04

members of PizzaDAO who have our NFT and

1:06:10

then they get to contribute and we'll just

1:06:10

limit it.

1:06:13

It'll probably be, it's not what we wanna

1:06:13

do ultimately, but we're fine for the

1:06:18

first few, it's gonna be like a hundred

1:06:18

limit, right?

1:06:20

So we will raise like 10K minimums and we

1:06:20

just buy the pizzeria with our partner.

1:06:25

Um, and this is because currently,

1:06:25

especially in the United States, I think

1:06:28

it's easier in some other jurisdictions,

1:06:28

but like it's pretty unclear what, what

1:06:33

the, um, legal wrapper is that you need

1:06:33

around, around doing these.

1:06:38

I think there are some, there's some co

1:06:38

-op law that can maybe be applied.

1:06:41

Um, you know, and maybe that's the

1:06:41

direction we'll go or, um, but we're, but

1:06:47

we're really looking at a lot of systems,

1:06:47

a lot of different solutions.

1:06:50

Like there's realty .io there's home base,

1:06:50

which is a Solana product.

1:06:53

We talked to that team. So we're looking at these products as they

1:06:55

come out.

1:06:58

I think ultimately our real estate

1:06:58

syndicate solution is we'll probably have

1:07:03

different partners in different regions.

1:07:05

So like whoever is the best in class at

1:07:05

putting together tokenized real estate

1:07:10

deals in Southeast Asia, like, you know,

1:07:10

we want to work with them and same for,

1:07:16

you know, everywhere else. Now we're actually looking for that.

1:07:24

There's a whole, and I had one of the

1:07:24

first guests I had with my boy Noah,

1:07:28

they're building like an archipelago of

1:07:28

like network states between token 2049 and

1:07:35

in DevConnect, like probably in Chiang

1:07:35

Mai, but the amount that you spend like on

1:07:40

rent, I mean, that can be used towards

1:07:40

actually getting like a physical place.

1:07:45

And so that is definitely something that

1:07:45

needs to be explored.

1:07:48

I haven't really seen that like.

1:07:51

taken in into tech or into like a native

1:07:51

investment vehicle.

1:07:56

So that's another thing for people to

1:07:56

explore.

1:08:01

But. as that, but I do think we're a really

1:08:02

great example of a network state.

1:08:07

I don't think many other orgs in our

1:08:07

ecosystem can actually make the claim

1:08:11

maybe as strongly as we can. So I want people to recognize like look at

1:08:13

us.

1:08:16

We're out here. Balaji come angel invest in the next pizza

1:08:19

tech because yeah, you are a network

1:08:29

state. I mean, right now in terms of the network

1:08:29

state, what it's considered, it's like

1:08:33

city DAOs. Like our example, I don't think no one's

1:08:34

really doing it too well.

1:08:37

There's like ATX DAO, there's like

1:08:37

community -based stuff.

1:08:41

Then there's like local nodes, which is a

1:08:41

lot like what pizza DAO does with like...

1:08:46

You have like refied out green pill, but

1:08:46

honestly, those aren't as strong and

1:08:51

mission driven and as consistent as pizza

1:08:51

down.

1:08:54

And then there's the whole, you know,

1:08:54

Honduras, Roatan, Vitalia, pop up cities

1:08:59

that are happening, economic zones that

1:08:59

are forming.

1:09:02

And then there's the kind of idea like the

1:09:02

Native American church where they're

1:09:05

recognized by external laws and there's

1:09:05

kind of different variations of how it's

1:09:09

coming. But yeah, you guys are definitely

1:09:09

considered a network state.

1:09:13

Are you coming to consensus by chance? presence, whether or not I go, um, is up

1:09:15

in the air.

1:09:17

And I, and this isn't a competition by the

1:09:17

way, I just want us to get recognition as

1:09:21

a network state. And I, and all these other network states,

1:09:23

I want them to build their network state

1:09:26

with our frame, like with our existing,

1:09:26

you know, they are welcome to our social

1:09:31

graph. Like, please come in here and build your

1:09:31

network state on top of the Pizza DAO

1:09:37

substrate. Like we are here. This is what we're doing.

1:09:45

Yeah, and again, it is that strategy for

1:09:45

basically bootstrapping your node and

1:09:50

getting leaders together. But I was mentioning, because in Austin,

1:09:51

during consensus, me and Russ are

1:09:55

organizing a network state Austin event.

1:09:58

And I would love to catalog the journeys

1:09:58

of Pizza Dog, because I do think it's part

1:10:04

of that stack.

1:10:07

But yeah, we covered so much. We're coming to well over the hour.

1:10:12

Is there anything that you would like to

1:10:12

say for the young kids at home that want

1:10:17

to get involved in the space or pursue

1:10:17

their passion?

1:10:20

Yeah, we'll. blockchain community and go to, you know,

1:10:22

you should be able to find it online.

1:10:26

Go meet them and go to the Pizza DAO

1:10:26

party.

1:10:30

Like May 22nd, it's a Wednesday night.

1:10:33

There's going to be a Pizza DAO event

1:10:33

within 30 minutes of the majority of

1:10:38

people who are listening to me right now.

1:10:40

Like anyone who listens to this podcast,

1:10:40

there is very, very likely a pizza party

1:10:43

you can attend. And if there isn't a pizza party that's

1:10:47

close enough to you that's in your city,

1:10:47

we will fund you to throw one.

1:10:52

We have $625 for you to spend on pizza to

1:10:52

bring together your local crypto

1:10:57

community. So reach out, pizza underscore DAO on

1:10:57

Twitter, globalpizzaparty .xyz.

1:11:03

Let's throw a global pizza party. Awesome, this has been a phenomenal time.

1:11:14

We went over crypto history, the cultures

1:11:14

that I love, and yeah, the future of Pizza

1:11:18

DAO. So yeah, thank you so much for coming,

1:11:18

Snacks.