0:00

The delicious ice cold taste of Dr. Pepper

0:02

has a lasting effect on people. Lindsay from

0:04

Sacramento said... Pro tip, 40 degrees is

0:06

the perfect temperature for an ice cold Dr. Pepper. Why

0:09

is 40 degrees the perfect temperature for Dr.

0:11

Pepper? We brought in Sue from Duluth, Minnesota to

0:13

tell us. Oh yeah, I know a thing or two

0:15

about cold. Oh, that right there is the

0:17

perfect kind of ice cold for Dr. Pepper. I'd

0:20

share that with my friend Nancy. She likes Dr.

0:22

Pepper too, you know. My coldest... Alright, that'll

0:24

be all, Sue. Having a perfect temperature for

0:26

your Dr. Pepper? It's a Pepper thing. Inspired

0:29

by Real Fan Posts. Let's

0:31

get it started.

0:33

Let's get it started.

0:36

Let's get it started. Let's get

0:39

it started. Let's get

0:41

it started. Let's get it started. A

0:45

small Rebel force has penetrated the

0:47

shield and landed on endos. This

0:50

is where the fun begins. A

0:53

long time ago, in a

0:55

galaxy far, far away. This

0:58

is Rebel Force Radio. Your source

1:00

for the force. Star Wars, news

1:02

and commentary. With Jason Swank and

1:04

Jimmy Mack. I've seen Star Wars

1:07

500 times. So is number one! This

1:09

station is now the ultimate power in

1:12

the universe. I suggest we use it.

1:14

Now it's time for Rebel Force Radio.

1:16

We would be honored if you would

1:18

join us. Hey,

1:24

look at that. More Rebel Force Radio coming at

1:27

you here. Can't

1:30

get enough of us, can you? We

1:33

do the after show, then we do a weekly

1:35

podcast. We love

1:37

it. We love it. And we love

1:39

you for listening. So thanks for hanging

1:41

with us. With the RFR

1:43

double feature this week. We can't promise that

1:45

every week. You

1:48

know, summertime. Got things. But

1:51

we certainly won't be here. Won't

1:55

be missing an episode of the Acolyte. We are

1:57

committed as we have been really. since

2:01

the very first Star Wars television

2:03

series going all the way back to the

2:05

Clone Wars. And

2:07

we have really not missed

2:10

an episode of Star

2:12

Wars television yet. I will say,

2:14

and this was my fault, I

2:18

said no to doing resistance. And

2:22

I don't know, you can judge for yourself

2:24

whether that was a good idea or not,

2:26

but that was one where I

2:28

pretty much said no, if

2:32

we're doing it, I won't be participating in it.

2:35

But happy to be doing all of these series.

2:37

I mean, it really is, it's incredible. It's like

2:39

a time capsule. And we hear from listeners all

2:42

the time that jump in, some

2:45

of them as recently as in the last year

2:47

or so, and then they go back and they

2:49

re-listen to not just the regular podcast, but all

2:51

the after shows. Because it's a

2:53

time capsule in the sense that we've

2:57

just seen the episode. Sometimes

2:59

that night, sometimes that we recorded, or sometimes

3:01

within the first 24 hours or so. So

3:04

it's all very, very fresh. And

3:06

we don't have the benefit of having watched

3:08

the whole series and talking about it. So

3:11

it's very raw, and that's exactly what we're doing

3:13

with the Acolyte. So make sure you're checking us

3:15

out. We're there Wednesday nights, 8 o'clock

3:18

PM Eastern time. So

3:20

that's the after show. This is the regular flagship

3:22

podcast, the weekly show. We've been doing it for

3:24

gosh, 17, 18 years now. I

3:27

don't know. I don't even keep track anymore.

3:29

People say, how many episodes have you done? I

3:31

have no idea how many episodes we've done. I'm

3:33

not interested in knowing. All I know is that

3:35

I have a great time each and every week

3:38

with you all. And this guy, and

3:40

by this guy, me and my good

3:42

friend and yours from Chicago, Jimmy Mack.

3:44

Hey, Jason, hey Star Wars fans. Yeah,

3:46

back again for another round of Rebel

3:49

Force Radio. And we got a good one

3:51

for you guys this week. Coming

3:53

up, we got FJ DeSanto joining

3:55

us. Filmmaker, Hollywood

3:57

insider, FJ DeSanto, friend of Rebel.

4:00

Force Radio. He'll be joining

4:02

us for a little profit

4:04

or loser, the Acolyte

4:06

edition. F.J. has a

4:08

lot of things to say about the Acolyte and

4:10

so we need to unleash him on

4:13

this episode. And

4:15

he's pumped up and he's ready

4:18

to talk about everything from the

4:21

development of the series to

4:23

the fan reaction, the fallout

4:26

and his predictions for where the

4:28

story is heading. So always great

4:30

to hear from F.J. I love to hear

4:32

from him and his no BS

4:35

insight that he gives us

4:37

into storytelling and the process

4:39

of filmmaking and his life

4:41

as a Star Wars fan

4:44

and he is tops at all of the

4:46

above. Plus we have

4:48

some interview highlights from Dave

4:51

Filoni and Hayden Christensen. They're

4:54

out on this promotion

4:56

tour trying to raise

4:58

awareness in Ahsoka so

5:01

that show will get nominated for

5:03

an Emmy or whatever they're fishing

5:05

for. So Lucasfilm

5:07

is trotting out Hayden,

5:09

Rosario and Filoni. We

5:12

have a few highlights from Dave and

5:14

Hayden. Plus a little

5:16

bit of listener feedback. Hopefully Star Wars

5:18

and pop culture, we keep having to

5:21

shelve that every week because there's

5:23

just been so much to talk about in the

5:25

realm of Star Wars. So we haven't been able

5:27

to focus on pop culture but we want you

5:29

guys to keep sending your suggestions. We're

5:32

saving them all. We have a

5:35

big supply of Star Wars and pop culture

5:37

so I hope we can pick away at

5:39

that a little bit this week.

5:42

But the thing I love the

5:44

most about doing the after show is

5:47

not only being able to have a

5:49

conversation with you Jason every week where

5:51

we can trade notes

5:53

about things that we have

5:56

observed happening in the latest Star

5:58

Wars stream. streaming series

6:00

or even films when those come

6:02

back, but it's the ability to

6:05

hear from our audience live. We

6:08

have an open switchboard and our buddy

6:11

Tyler Page is there manning the switchboard

6:13

for each and every after show and

6:15

we talk to our audience in real

6:17

time. I think that's a great

6:20

thing that we do every week, but

6:22

I don't want to just limit that to

6:24

the after shows. I'd like to dive into

6:27

some voicemail and hear what some of the

6:29

Rebel Force radio audience has to say

6:31

about the acolyte or anything. So

6:34

you want to jump into some listener feedback? Let's

6:36

do it. Check, check

6:39

Jason and Jimmy. This

6:57

is Fletcher from Maryland. Just

6:59

wanted to say two things really quick.

7:01

First off, I'm a brand new Patreon

7:03

member and I'm absolutely loving the content

7:05

that you all provide on there. If

7:08

anyone is on the fence, highly recommend

7:10

joining it. I am

7:12

in a stress and emotionally heavy

7:14

job and getting a chance to

7:16

listen to all this bonus content

7:18

and just laugh with people within

7:20

the Star Wars fandom just

7:23

gives me a lot of joy. So if you're

7:25

on the fence, just go ahead and do it. It's

7:27

absolutely worth it. On top

7:29

of that, I also wanted to

7:32

share a quick thought with the

7:34

acolyte, specifically as it

7:36

relates to Yoda. I

7:38

know that there's a lot of people thinking

7:40

that Yoda might not show up because

7:42

Lucasfilm has a lot of fear of

7:44

legacy characters. And while

7:47

I think that's part of it,

7:49

I'm also seriously doubting if Yoda

7:51

as a character would even end

7:53

up fitting the Vibe

7:56

or the tone that they're going for in the show

7:59

In. The fact that

8:01

Good at least feels like they're

8:03

showing the tread I as an

8:05

organization as really corporate are in

8:08

the absence of almost a spiritual

8:10

aspect involved with The Force in

8:12

July and I'm not sure if

8:15

you're really going to sit in

8:17

the malls at this point. I

8:19

would love to hear you guys

8:22

think on the likelihood or. All.

8:24

Likelihood of a scene Yoda was in

8:26

the act like and once again. At

8:29

all listening? If yeah was repatriations. Go

8:31

ahead and join it. Is. Kids

8:33

through here. You would be part

8:35

of a nice and would sell you boxes. You

8:37

end up hope you'll have. To

8:40

force be with Wow what a

8:42

call saying sleds your that's that

8:44

is awesome. Really appreciate it. Thank

8:47

you for almost the kind words

8:49

about about Patron. Yes, well as

8:51

far as Yoda sitting in and

8:53

and him and corporate and all

8:56

of that's something that I've always

8:58

sound interesting about. The. The

9:00

prequels in particular it's the did. The

9:02

difference between Fly Gon Jinn and the

9:04

rest of the Jedi Council is that

9:07

I've always thought emit a Korean sort

9:09

of since into this that at the

9:11

time of the of the prequels at

9:13

least that's the jet I were. A.

9:16

Perhaps straying away? or I don't

9:18

know. I don't have enough historical

9:20

context. They're either straying away from

9:22

the more metaphysical spiritual, or perhaps

9:24

they hadn't quite sound. He added

9:26

that point. So the Yoda is

9:29

that we meet in the Empire

9:31

Strikes Back, which is very, very

9:33

much. A of.

9:36

In. Almost damn. It

9:39

was at. The. Caprice on Friday

9:41

night. My you something about about

9:43

the spiritual side luminous beings are

9:46

we were not physicals. He

9:49

never talks about minutes, florissants, So.

9:53

Will. His i've always felt that

9:55

the middle Koreans themselves were sort

9:57

of is an example of how

9:59

the. That I were looking for

10:01

some sort of scientific way to sort

10:03

of. Rules

10:06

Spirituality The sense of people to

10:09

go looking for God. ah with

10:11

telescopes and things like that was

10:13

I can't see, haven't with this

10:15

of. An incredible invention

10:17

than it is. It doesn't exist so. In

10:21

that sense, ah, I'm. Yeah,

10:24

I would say that these Jet I

10:26

are still somewhat on par with what

10:28

we see in the Phantom Menace in

10:30

In the Prequels, so I enjoy This

10:32

is Gold is there, but I don't

10:34

think he's evolved into the Yoda that

10:36

we sort of and lot of. as

10:38

I think you really think of when

10:40

we think of Yoda in the Empire

10:42

Strikes Back, so I understand what you're

10:44

saying. But I don't see this being

10:46

a radically different vibe from the Judge

10:48

I that we see in the Prequels.

10:50

I hear people say that, but you'll

10:52

I don't I don't necessarily. Think that

10:54

they're. Really? Much

10:56

different. It all. Done

10:59

well. Not from the limited exposure

11:01

we've had to the Jet I

11:03

thus far in the accolades. From.

11:07

They seem a little heavy handed. Throws:

11:10

His the jet are you in? The prequels

11:12

were a little heavy handed it times. And

11:15

there to me seems kind of consistency.

11:18

In. This. Weather like

11:20

Yoda? as in a seat in. I.

11:22

Mean, obviously he evolves who the

11:25

force But who's to say like.

11:27

Back. In the prequels, arab. Quite.

11:30

Young Joon is seeking blood for

11:33

Mannequin Skywalker to test for as

11:35

many Koreans. maybe back. Even in

11:37

that era, you're disgusted that idea.

11:40

Oh, you need technology to

11:42

tell you. You. Can

11:45

feel the force slowing from

11:47

this person. Kids, you have

11:49

zal you with them on

11:51

those standards as opposed to

11:53

using at all man made

11:55

wool technology. seeds of measures,

11:57

someone's connection to the for

11:59

there's but by that time

12:01

the Jet I have become

12:03

something of a bureaucracy and

12:05

these were certain statistics that

12:07

you had to us to

12:09

surpass to be able to

12:11

join the order they simplified

12:13

if they made it, routines,

12:16

dame it be clothing and

12:18

the system and lies it.

12:20

Yeah. The head with my says yes. And

12:23

that's where the jet I are falling short. Because.

12:26

They're losing their their,

12:28

their, one on one

12:30

connection with the force,

12:32

and they're letting too

12:34

many middlemen. interferes be

12:36

a government technology, politicians,

12:38

or even emotional attachment

12:40

to certain people. These

12:42

are things that. Would

12:44

screw up a jet. I. To.

12:47

Be you know the talks about

12:49

how jet I should not have

12:51

the attachments. Well

12:53

I see the jet I became attached.

12:56

To. The T tes of the

12:58

republic government's this assessed. They.

13:01

Were attached yeah to the

13:03

whole system's. the July who

13:05

went off on their own.

13:08

To. Find themselves via

13:10

meditation or isolation.

13:14

Those. Are the Jet I who

13:16

connected with the force in a

13:18

profound way and lived up to

13:20

what I think is the original

13:22

standard of being a jet Eyes?

13:25

Maybe this is stuff the James

13:27

Mangold show or movie will investigate.

13:29

The pure connection between may will

13:31

be an old person and the

13:34

forces cells? Well, I keep waiting

13:36

for us to see the Jet

13:38

I. In their prime.

13:40

I remember when George Lucas was talking about

13:42

the prequels him where we're going to finally

13:44

see the July in their prime, but there's

13:46

a big asterisk: their. The. Shroud of

13:49

Her Daughter Lies has all an ad

13:51

for their ability to use the force

13:53

had been diminished. and all of that

13:55

we know that's so they're in the

13:57

midst of they don't know it as.

14:00

They're starting to figure it out, but they're in the

14:02

midst of a lot of upheaval. The

14:05

same could be said for the

14:07

Jedi here because I was shocked

14:09

when we saw them testing blood

14:11

and, which

14:13

obviously is about checking the

14:15

midichlorian count and stuff for the kids.

14:17

I thought if we saw Jedi a

14:19

hundred years prior to the Phantom Menace,

14:21

they would be much, more in the

14:24

Qui-Gon vein where

14:26

very much connected the force,

14:28

very much instinctual, very much

14:31

not reliant on technology.

14:34

So yeah, I think Yoda will, I

14:36

guess that's a long way of saying I think Yoda

14:38

will fit just right in to the

14:40

world of the Acolyte, to be honest. Well

14:43

maybe these are the things that

14:45

necessitate the whole

14:47

concept of Lucasfilm chasing the idea

14:49

of creating a film

14:54

about the origin of the

14:56

Jedi and the origin

14:58

of people's connection to the force and

15:00

being able to use it. Maybe

15:03

all of these shows and

15:05

the questions they create start

15:08

to necessitate that to where

15:10

we see actually like the most

15:12

purist of Jedi, the

15:15

ones who aren't corrupted by government

15:18

or status or

15:20

living in the high rise and

15:23

Coruscant. These

15:26

early Jedi might be the

15:28

purist form of force

15:31

user that we'll ever see. One

15:34

thing that's really, and I hope

15:37

they build on this a bit more, I

15:39

don't know that they'll have time with the Acolyte,

15:42

but up until this

15:44

series I wasn't thinking about the idea that

15:46

there would be lots of Jedi

15:48

temples throughout the galaxy. When I think of

15:50

the Jedi temple, I think of the one

15:52

on Coruscant, yes that's the capital planet, but

15:55

I wasn't thinking about the possibility of

15:57

there being almost like different planets. subcultures

16:01

of Jedi based on what temple they're

16:03

in. So that's

16:06

also a possibility. It

16:08

could be that they start to

16:10

rot from the center, from

16:13

the central position

16:15

there on Coruscant, that that could

16:18

be where the seeds of the

16:20

corruption are actually planted, and then

16:22

it would impact the outlying temples

16:24

perhaps later downstream of what's going

16:26

on in Coruscant. But again, something

16:29

that George didn't have time to

16:31

talk about in the in the

16:33

prequels, and we may not get

16:35

much more exposure to that in Echolite either. Well

16:38

I don't know because like the High

16:40

Republic represents a certain era, and

16:43

in this era Jedi temples were

16:45

all over the galaxy.

16:48

By the time we get to the prequels,

16:52

they've closed down a lot of the

16:54

business that was going on. And the

16:56

Jedi themselves, yes,

16:59

and the Jedi themselves become much

17:01

smaller in ranks by

17:04

the time you get to the prequel era. And

17:07

you know there have been moments

17:09

in the past where old

17:12

Jedi temples were rediscovered. I

17:14

think about the Jedi temple

17:17

that Ezra and Kanan discovered

17:19

on Lothal.

17:23

Yeah, it was

17:25

those mounds and they, you know, and

17:27

Yoda was hanging out in there. Rejection

17:29

of Yoda. Yeah, he was. So

17:33

yeah, I mean there's something special

17:35

about these temples wherever they're scattered

17:37

throughout the galaxy that

17:40

they become sort

17:42

of an antenna for

17:44

the force maybe, or something that

17:47

really focuses the force. They were

17:49

probably chosen, I'm guessing that the

17:51

locations of these were probably chosen

17:53

very specifically as well, given

17:57

perhaps how strong that area

17:59

represents. Resonated with the force.

18:01

We know that physical locations

18:04

can what is Qui-Gon say about? Mortis

18:08

it's a How

18:11

does he describe it as something

18:13

of the force I convergence convergence

18:15

he might have said Yeah,

18:17

so I think this phenomenon in other words in

18:19

the temple where Yoda or Grogu

18:23

Sends out his message to which ends

18:25

up being Luke Skywalker Again

18:28

another place that the physical

18:30

location is is significant in

18:33

terms of its connection to the force and all that So

18:35

yeah, I don't think they were yeah, you know Those

18:38

are things that they can explore and I

18:41

think that temple the original Jedi temple

18:43

on Aktu Oh right, of course

18:46

You know, there was something there, you

18:49

know Yoda says the force it connects

18:51

everything tree the rock you me everything

18:53

and I think that's that's

18:55

really interesting. We're seeing you know, you have

18:57

to keep reminding yourself when you're watching the

19:00

act Like you're seeing a different era of

19:02

Jedi This is the

19:04

high Republic era and it's the end of

19:06

the high Republic era Right.

19:08

So there has to be some real

19:11

consequential stuff happening that's

19:14

going to necessitate even

19:16

like The

19:19

public perception of a change in

19:21

eras or the Jedi perception of

19:23

a change in eras I do

19:26

think we might see Yoda and

19:28

he'll show up in like some Jedi Council scene When

19:31

they're all sitting in the circle, just like we

19:33

saw him introduced in the Phantom Menace In

19:37

one of the latter episodes of the acolyte.

19:39

We'll see this where the

19:41

Jedi are making a harsh decision about

19:43

something And it

19:45

all comes down to like a

19:47

very bureaucratic take on the situation

19:50

and Yoda will Let

19:52

it be known that he does not agree with

19:55

this method of assessing

19:59

the situation You know, he might even

20:01

look at the camera and go like, hmm. You

20:03

know, it might be something. Something

20:08

to indicate to us that whatever

20:10

the Jedi are doing in this

20:12

era is something Yoda does not

20:14

believe is the right path for

20:17

the Order to be taken. So

20:20

I hear what the caller is saying,

20:22

Fletcher, about Yoda

20:24

not fitting in with this high

20:27

Republic thing. That might

20:29

be the whole point that

20:31

Yoda doesn't fit in because he's above

20:33

it all. And that's

20:35

how I always like to perceive

20:37

the character of Yoda. He's

20:40

above it all. Not

20:43

literally. That's my Yoda. He's under a

20:45

lot of... Well, I know. He's a little guy. He's

20:48

a little to the ground, but he's a little guy.

20:50

He can float around and stuff. I've seen that happen.

20:53

All right. He's got

20:55

a little sled he sits in where he can kind

20:57

of float along with you. Yeah, I

20:59

need one of those. Remember an attack of the

21:02

close? Yeah, I love that. The little hover chair

21:04

thing. The little floating... Yeah, yeah. That was good

21:06

stuff. So... All right.

21:08

That was Fletcher. You've got something from Tori.

21:10

What do you got from Tori? Oh my

21:12

God. Tori is a long

21:14

time listener since the Forcecast days.

21:17

Remember the Forcecast days? Was

21:20

fortunate to meet you both at

21:23

Celebration Orlando 2017. What

21:27

a trip that show was. He

21:30

said, I thought I'd have a

21:32

crack at writing a song for RFR. References

21:35

a number of the in-jokes from

21:38

throughout the years. And

21:40

apparently, this is Tori

21:43

from Australia. Apparently

21:45

Tori was taking the pulse of members

21:48

of the RFR Facebook group about

21:51

what their favorite RFR in-jokes

21:53

are. And he

21:55

used all of those references to

21:58

create the lyrics this

22:01

song which he just presented

22:03

to us it's an epic it's an

22:05

epic this is like Freebird this is

22:07

like Stairway to Heaven this

22:09

is huge it's the

22:11

RFR song by Tori

22:14

from Australia world premiere

22:32

oh so

22:39

long ago oh

23:08

thank you never

23:12

long since I've been

23:22

happy felt itself but

23:26

my Red minus fear

23:28

that no moon I can fall from

23:31

the ground can

23:34

only be one thing I'm gonna

23:36

have it's

23:38

possible I'm

23:44

gonna have to come

23:47

to Ohio just for the

23:49

boys let's go let's

23:52

go to the fourth radio oh

23:55

yeah Uh

24:23

Oh Oh

25:00

Oh Good

25:23

memory with any more to talk and remember that's not

25:25

the end of you so this is wrong We'll

25:27

be very sweet for every new show on

25:29

and all our friends in the force meeting

25:31

never go Wow

25:50

There you go Wow

25:54

Tori my goodness, that's that is

25:56

certainly up there. That's the top

25:58

fiver of all time I think

26:01

as far as RFR

26:03

tribute songs that's amazing fantastic.

26:07

We didn't listen to that before the

26:09

show either I mean it was the

26:11

amount of references going on in

26:13

the lyrics of that song from Puff

26:16

a Pig to Baboon ass all

26:20

the great moments of RFR history. That's

26:23

a deep cut man. Tim

26:25

Morrison at the Polynesian Spa gets

26:27

a shout out Bob Iger phone

26:29

calls good lord you

26:32

all that that's amazing of course

26:34

Gitzer gets his time to

26:36

shine in the spotlight Nat calls we'll

26:39

post up the lyrics to this and and

26:41

maybe make it a downloadable thing

26:44

for you we might

26:46

put it on patreon we might put it on the

26:49

official page we'll let you know where

26:51

it ends up but wow thank you

26:53

so much Tory from Australia The

27:00

delicious ice cold taste of Dr. Pepper has

27:02

a lasting effect on people. Lindsay from Sacramento

27:04

said... Pro tip, 40 degrees is the

27:07

perfect temperature for an ice cold Dr. Pepper. Why

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is 40 degrees the perfect temperature for Dr.

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Pepper? We brought in Sue from Duluth, Minnesota to

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tell us. Oh yeah, I know a thing or two

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about cold. Oh, that right there is the

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perfect kind of ice cold for Dr. Pepper. I'd

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Pepper too, you know. My coldest... Alright, that'll

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28:31

right, let's catch up with the news. Good

28:37

news here, my lord. That's good

28:39

news. Come closer. I have good

28:41

news. All

28:44

right, as Max said, the cast

28:46

and crew of Ahsoka

28:48

looking for some Emmy

28:51

noms, maybe some gold they can bring

28:53

home to Lucasfilm. And as part

28:55

of that, they go on this PR

28:57

tour and one of these stops was

28:59

the Happy Sad Confused Podcast.

29:01

We get treated with, we got

29:03

Dave Filoni, Hayden Christensen, and Rosario

29:06

Dawson here. It's quite

29:08

a lineup. Yeah, true.

29:10

True. They all appeared to talk

29:12

to Josh Horowitz. And I

29:14

love the Happy Sad Confused

29:16

Podcast. Josh Horowitz, he

29:18

knows his Star Wars and

29:21

it's always a great source to

29:23

get, I

29:25

think he catches a lot of actors off

29:27

guard because oftentimes when they sit in

29:29

front of him, they're promoting something else. And

29:32

Josh will float in

29:34

a really sly question about a

29:37

Star Wars project they're working on.

29:39

And oftentimes he ends up

29:41

with quality results. He's a great

29:43

interviewer, one of my favorite entertainment

29:45

reporters working today. So the

29:49

trio of Hayden, Rosario,

29:51

and Filoni stopped by to

29:54

share some behind the scenes stories and

29:57

maybe even a little news. with

30:00

Josh Horwitz. I'm really only

30:02

focusing on Hayden and Filoni

30:04

for these highlights. I love

30:06

Rosario, she's amazing, but she

30:09

didn't really drop too many major bombshells

30:11

throughout this conversation, so I'm just focusing

30:14

in on some of the more newsworthy

30:16

or interesting tidbits that I could

30:18

pick out of this interview. So

30:21

I'm gonna start with Hayden, good

30:23

old Annie, Hayden Christensen, and

30:25

I thought this was interesting

30:27

because I don't ever recall

30:29

anyone asking this of Hayden

30:31

before. Try

30:34

to describe some of the differences between

30:38

George Lucas's directing style

30:41

and that of Dave Filoni's

30:43

because of course Hayden is one of the

30:45

very few actors who may be

30:47

the only one who has

30:49

been directed by both guys,

30:52

the master and the apprentice. So

30:55

I was very interested to hear what

30:57

Hayden had to say about what's

30:59

different about George's style and

31:02

Filoni's style. The language

31:04

of the direction is much different, but

31:07

the commonality is

31:09

there because you

31:12

know Dave was a

31:15

student of George Lucas

31:17

and all of his

31:19

understanding comes from time spent with George and

31:21

of course from being a fan before that

31:23

too, and

31:25

you really get a sense of that. For

31:28

me that was what was so comforting was

31:30

that I really felt that

31:33

he was wanting to

31:35

honor sort of what George had

31:37

created and obviously move

31:41

it forward and make it his own,

31:43

but really wanting to keep

31:47

the themes in line with what

31:49

George was trying to communicate. But

31:52

yeah, I mean

31:54

you know how they direct, they're much

31:56

different in how they approach their

31:59

craft. to the directing. Okay.

32:03

All right. He

32:06

wasn't very specific. Well, George was never really, Hayden

32:09

wasn't very specific there. But I think

32:11

he is Hayden. He is Hayden and

32:14

also nobody, look it's

32:16

no secret that George

32:18

was never an actor's director.

32:22

That's it. So, but everybody

32:24

wants to be kind to George. He's 80 years

32:26

old. No one wants to say, well, George, you

32:28

know, thank God you were lucky to get three

32:30

words out of him when you finished a take.

32:33

Nobody wants to say that. Hayden wants to be

32:35

kind here. But

32:38

he does talk about the commonalities in terms of

32:40

the passion and storytelling and all of that. I

32:45

think that Dave directs in

32:48

a less specific way than

32:50

maybe George did. Like

32:53

Dave tries to bring out emotion,

32:55

maybe a little bit more. He tries

32:58

to tap into certain elements of

33:00

your personality, maybe a little more

33:03

than George did. I can

33:05

see that. But it's hard to compare the two because

33:07

Dave has had such limited directing

33:10

experience. And still to this

33:12

day, he hasn't directed a

33:14

feature film. So it's

33:16

really hard to measure, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe,

33:18

maybe Hayden was being equally kind

33:21

to Dave as much as he

33:23

was. George hadn't thought of that.

33:25

True. And

33:27

it's been noted that Hayden

33:31

struggled on the sets of Attack of the

33:33

Clones and Revenge of the Sith because

33:35

of a hands-off directorial

33:38

style that George had.

33:40

And Hayden being very

33:42

inexperienced too. Yes.

33:45

And very intimidated by the

33:47

massive size and scope and

33:49

scale of Star Wars. He

33:52

never worked anything so epic. And

33:55

so maybe he held back a little

33:58

bit too much during the process. prequel

34:00

filming. That's what I think. I think

34:02

Hayden could have really put an individual

34:04

stamp, but he was really concerned

34:06

with following the direction

34:09

that George was providing and

34:11

George's direction was naturally limited.

34:13

Right. Because George is naturally

34:15

limited as a director. Yeah.

34:19

Albeit one of the most celebrated directors

34:21

of all time. Sure. It's

34:24

hard to, it's really hard to evaluate George as

34:26

a director because he despised

34:28

every minute of it. Yeah, I

34:30

think he didn't have the passion

34:32

of Spielberg or Culplla or Scorsese,

34:34

his contemporaries. He's a filmmaker. He's

34:36

not a director. I think there's

34:38

a big difference. Some

34:41

of them, I think some can

34:43

straddle that line. I think that Spielberg

34:45

in particular has movies where he's more

34:49

of a filmmaker. And I think he has some movies

34:51

where he's more of a director. But

34:55

George, I

34:57

don't feel like George could ever just

35:00

be a gun for hire. I

35:03

mean, was he ever? Was

35:06

he ever just hired to take

35:08

somebody else's script and make

35:10

it? I don't think he ever was. After American

35:13

Graffiti, he was a

35:16

hot commodity. Right. And people were,

35:19

excuse me, presented scripts and

35:21

he could have jumped on them and made some

35:23

decent coin because he was

35:25

still sort of rubbing nickels together back

35:28

then. Even though he did make some

35:30

fat cash off of American Graffiti, he

35:33

still wasn't the George Lucas we know

35:35

of today. And

35:37

he just listened

35:40

to his gut and stayed independent. That

35:42

was very important to him. And

35:45

he had concepts

35:49

and ideas and material

35:51

that he was shaping. And

35:54

he was more concerned with that than making a

35:56

quick buck. And for

35:58

that, he deserves our results. He

36:01

also had a front

36:04

row seat at what Coppola

36:06

was going through with Paramount

36:08

making The Godfather. I think

36:10

that was also a big,

36:12

because Coppola had a

36:14

lot of problems with the studio. They made

36:16

a whole movie about it, a whole mini-series

36:18

about the making of that

36:20

film. So I think George was, yeah,

36:24

I think he realized that his

36:27

ticket was going to be his own

36:29

projects and so when you talk about,

36:31

I agree with you, I think

36:33

that he is a celebrated director because he's

36:37

never been just a director. So

36:40

you get the whole package, you get the

36:43

filmmaker, you get the guy that wrote the

36:45

stories and created the universes and all

36:47

of that. An extremely

36:49

well-schooled on the history of

36:51

cinema. Oh my gosh. Someone

36:54

very steeped in all

36:57

of that. And these

36:59

are the intangibles that George Lucas

37:01

has always brought to the director's

37:03

seat without

37:05

being technically an actor's director,

37:07

someone who could really work

37:10

with actors and everything. He

37:12

understood the big picture and

37:15

that might have, he

37:17

might have stretched himself a little bit too thin.

37:20

So when it comes to directing, he doesn't have

37:22

the abilities to do it because there's so many

37:24

other things swirling around in his head. I

37:27

also think that the art of directing, which so

37:29

much of it has to do with the relationship

37:32

that you are able to forge

37:34

with the crew, the actors, all

37:36

of that, you're sort of the,

37:39

well, you're the leader, you're the

37:41

team captain. And I

37:44

don't think George likes being in that

37:46

role. I don't think he likes being

37:48

in a role where everybody's looking to

37:50

him for leadership, for guidance, for the

37:54

steady hand. I just don't think that's something

37:56

that he relishes. Something

38:00

that I just you know, I've seen that documentary

38:02

at the beginning a million times. I feel like

38:06

It's on the one on the making of the

38:08

Phantom Menace But I just it happened to just

38:10

pop on YouTube tonight And I

38:12

was watching it and there was the moment where

38:14

he's doing he's having the meeting with John Knoll

38:16

and he's doing the little You

38:19

know the thing with the highlighters like this is this is

38:21

CG. This is real This is CG and this is real

38:24

and what something I hadn't picked up on is he

38:26

he's talking about the budget of the film And

38:28

he goes well You know we're gonna have to you know gonna have to

38:30

do this for For this budget and then we're gonna have to

38:32

figure out how to do it for this film two other films

38:35

and then all the other Filmmakers are gonna want to do it

38:37

for their films We have to figure out how to do it

38:39

for theirs and all it just became

38:41

very clear to me the weight that he was putting

38:43

On himself in the making of this movie. Not only

38:45

did he have to solve problems for the movie He

38:47

was making he had to solve problems for the next

38:50

two movies He was making and he knew that What

38:53

they were doing was gonna be so profound that it

38:55

was gonna be in demand And he was gonna have

38:57

to wait find a way to make it work for

39:00

God knows how many movies after that,

39:02

right? incredible incredible

39:05

with ILM being the

39:08

Top place for special effects back

39:10

then there weren't many other places

39:12

around that were providing that sort

39:15

of computer Generated imagery

39:18

so George is the best, you know

39:21

He's the greatest filmmaker that ever lived in

39:24

it's such a profound visual This

39:26

visual mind that created all of

39:28

this great stuff that we're reaping

39:30

the benefits of that all these

39:32

decades later And and Dave Filoni

39:34

is there and he's the guy

39:36

who is telling the stories now

39:38

in the wake of George Lucas He's

39:40

a former protege of George Lucas, but

39:43

what happens to Dave when he it's

39:45

a dead end And

39:47

is not really certain in which

39:49

direction to go in is George

39:52

Lucas still on his speed dial

39:54

Is is George still accessible to

39:56

Filoni when he has questions about

39:58

Jedi and lightsabers? the force and

40:01

all of that. And he

40:03

answers this question. Does he still

40:05

ask, does he still tap

40:08

into the knowledge of the master, George

40:10

Lucas? Here's what he had to say.

40:13

I'm very cautious. You know, I've had a lot of mentoring

40:16

from him and I the

40:19

answer is yes, I do every now and

40:21

then, but it's got to be something really

40:23

important for me to go and

40:25

seek him out now. And yet even when I

40:27

do it, it feels very mythical to go before

40:30

him and talk and he's the most humble

40:32

guy. But yeah, I mean

40:35

it was the greatest asset on Clone Wars. It was the greatest

40:37

confidence to know that he was there. To know

40:40

that no matter what we did, he was the backstop

40:42

and it had to be a little bit like maybe

40:45

Anakin felt sometimes with Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan's

40:48

got my back. I know he's there. And

40:51

so when he's not there, it's a

40:54

bit more, you're flying free,

40:56

flying down that trench and you're figuring am I

40:58

gonna hit that exhaust port? I

41:00

don't always know, but we do our best. We

41:02

do it. We don't try. We do

41:05

our best. Yeah,

41:07

we do our best. Dave

41:10

is always, he's not lost that. Dave

41:12

was always making connections

41:14

between his relationship

41:16

with the

41:18

actors that he's working with or George

41:21

himself. He was always creating allegories

41:23

with characters in the Star Wars films. I really

41:25

do think that's something that has served him very

41:28

well. I think it's

41:30

because Dave is always in his own Star

41:32

Wars movie. He's always in his own hero's

41:34

journey, you might say. So I think that

41:36

keeps him very, very much into the

41:40

universe. Absolutely it does.

41:42

And it's nice to know that he

41:44

still calls George from time to time.

41:47

I assumed as much, but

41:49

also George made it very

41:52

clear that when he

41:54

walked away from that consulting gig,

41:56

he was done with Star Wars.

41:59

He said after you break up with someone, you

42:01

don't call them up and then say, hey,

42:03

let's go out for a cup of coffee

42:05

sometime, you know, it just doesn't have yet.

42:07

Well, just ask Marcia. We ain't cut. Ask

42:09

Marcia. Wow, I mean,

42:11

my God. But I

42:13

mean, George took it to such

42:15

an extreme. Not only did you

42:17

not call the ex, you

42:21

completely write her

42:23

out of your own history book. Incredible.

42:25

I mean, but that happened at

42:27

a time when the history books

42:30

were being written. True. True.

42:32

And he got very burned. I mean, he

42:36

was very burned in that relationship.

42:39

So I understand both sides of the coin.

42:41

I really do. I really do. And

42:44

what goes on, you know, in George Lucas's

42:46

house? That's, you know,

42:48

there's so many things going on. We

42:51

don't know. We don't have a front row seat for all

42:53

of that. We don't. But

42:56

there was more than just a marriage there.

42:58

That was a business partnership. That

43:01

was a business relationship and, you know,

43:03

the foundation of Lucasfilm.

43:06

But you're right about that. I

43:08

do think that you're right that

43:10

it speaks to the

43:13

level of the importance that Dave

43:15

would need to make that phone

43:17

call because I don't necessarily think

43:19

George is looking for the opportunity

43:22

to talk shop or start worse

43:24

with anybody. Right. What?

43:28

He called again? Oh, God.

43:32

Oh, they were so confident

43:35

when they denied my sequel

43:37

trilogy treatment. And

43:40

now they're calling to ask for help. George,

43:50

you know, and I wouldn't call George all

43:52

the time because he's a writer of great

43:54

dialogue. You know, I

43:57

hate sand gets everywhere. I

44:00

mean he can really put the pen

44:02

to paper and come up with some

44:05

very inspired shit script doctor. Sorry,

44:09

I'm just getting everyone primed. I'm

44:12

setting the stage. FJ DeSanto is coming up.

44:14

So I just want to make sure the

44:16

pumps are primed for FJ's

44:19

unfiltered conversation

44:21

that will be happening very shortly here

44:23

on this. Because he's FK,

44:25

you know? Alright, sorry about

44:27

that. But

44:30

so like he wrote, you know, he

44:32

wrote that kind of dialogue and that

44:34

dialogue sort of grew into a life

44:37

of its own sometimes. And

44:40

the question that Hayden

44:42

Christensen answers

44:45

here in this interview on

44:47

Happy Sand Confused is as

44:50

he responds, did he actually

44:52

realize the I Hate Sand

44:54

line would become so well

44:56

known and borderline

44:58

iconic in the future? And

45:01

also, you know, a punch line to some

45:04

jokes and stuff. But I mean, did he

45:06

have any indication that the

45:08

line would live on and have a life

45:10

of its own after he delivered

45:13

it in Attack of the Clones? And here's what

45:15

Hayden has to say. I had no

45:17

idea. No, and I always

45:20

enjoyed that scene and I appreciated sort of

45:22

where the sentiment was coming from. And,

45:25

you know, it was sort of

45:28

a powerful metaphor for, you

45:30

know, his sort of the sort of uncomfortableness

45:35

of his upbringing in a lot of ways. But

45:38

yeah, people really, really took to that line.

45:42

If you're at the beach, does any jerk like me come

45:44

over and be like, Hey, dude, I thought you were doing

45:46

here. I've got a couple of thoughts. When you came to

45:48

set, when you came to set through the level three world

45:50

and he gets there

45:56

and he's standing there in the attic and he

45:58

looks amazing. And I walked up to the I've

46:00

read you go to me I think a

46:02

rare that you go sand really. Are

46:05

a right offended? You are Some is

46:07

sad that of I had a the

46:09

got on with our know the guy

46:12

real over the abiding citizen. And

46:15

we got a ring on Ruin elaborate

46:17

that's the new Gods and on the

46:19

floor. And us about ancillary

46:21

sas that's easy that exhibits

46:23

a few things. Someones here's

46:25

the story When they were

46:27

shooting do the episode five

46:29

of us so job with

46:31

the world between worlds in

46:33

the region. Did the reunion

46:35

of an aching and young

46:37

Asoka. It's on their planets

46:39

in there and battle. I

46:41

think it's a planet's s

46:43

and their sand everywhere. I

46:45

mean that's all. There is.

46:47

very minimal set. In.

46:49

Those flashback shots so yes but

46:52

you see their on its reign

46:54

of nothing but sand. Sulfate.

46:57

In shows up at the set. For.

46:59

He's ready to shoot this stuff die bag

47:01

and and gets. In or

47:03

put him on a set of

47:06

sand and so he does he

47:08

consider said to be a personal

47:10

affront to him. Because

47:12

primarily I think of the I

47:14

he'd San Juan as as primarily

47:17

for months and reminded reminds me

47:19

of when know. When.

47:21

George when George stuck out vampire

47:24

fangs in the little Yoda. My

47:26

tests that deck Christopher Lee had

47:28

to play opposite of when they

47:31

were make an attack on the

47:33

closer the as a great I'll

47:35

walk of That is what our

47:38

jobs really Oh jobs flares up

47:40

must yes men such a lot

47:42

less amplify. Of

47:45

that the way your career has been pigeon

47:47

all. Right

47:50

for Christopher Lee. definitely dracula

47:52

things and for hating for

47:54

reasons i say and up

47:57

for every rare so years

47:59

so Um, here's, I,

48:02

it's borderline newsworthy. Okay. Because

48:05

these are the first public

48:07

comments I've heard Dave Filoni

48:09

make about the

48:12

upcoming film that he's attached

48:14

to direct. And

48:17

Josh confronts him on that. Doesn't

48:19

hold back. He wants,

48:22

Josh wants to know the status of the

48:24

film. And, uh,

48:26

that's why I love Josh Horowitz because he,

48:28

he knows that he's going into territory he's

48:30

not supposed to go into right now. But

48:34

damn it, he wants answers. And so do

48:36

we as Star Wars fans. So Josh Horowitz,

48:38

we salute you. And,

48:40

uh, here's the result of his work. He

48:43

asked Dave Filoni for an update on the

48:46

Dave Filoni Star Wars movie that was

48:48

announced like over a year ago. Over

48:51

a year ago, it was announced you

48:53

have a live action Star Wars movie

48:55

coming. Where are we at? Is there

48:57

a script? Give me some hope. You

48:59

know, very exciting stuff. Very exciting stuff.

49:03

I, uh, listen to very long

49:05

threads. And

49:08

so for me telling

49:11

a story, I always

49:13

have to know where is this going? What's the outcome

49:15

of this is going to be. And fans that have

49:17

followed my work know this about

49:20

Clone Wars about, you know, when

49:22

I started Clone Wars, I had a good idea of how it was going

49:24

to end. It changed a bit as we

49:26

went on, but it's still fairly relative to the things that

49:28

happened. I had the time, didn't know Darth Maul was going

49:30

to be in it. That was a George Kirkball, but George,

49:32

you know, he's allowed to do that. So I knew

49:35

how rebels was going to end. I,

49:37

because I've been writing season two of

49:40

Ahsoka things have clicked

49:42

and I have a much better idea

49:44

about where things are going to go. And I

49:47

will say I have an opening. I really like quite a

49:49

bit. I'm very excited about

49:51

it for that picture. Um,

49:53

and I'm excited about the potential of

49:56

just doing it. Um, but

49:58

right now my focus is very clearly. on

50:01

season two as well as the rest of

50:03

the galaxy and how it's spinning. But

50:07

I am excited. It's funny because every now and then there'll

50:09

be something I get where

50:11

someone says what my movie is

50:13

about online. I'm like, oh, that's interesting. I should

50:15

read that and see if there's any good idea

50:17

in there. That wasn't really on, but I never

50:20

do. I actually stay, I'm very good at staying

50:22

away from a lot of that stuff. But

50:25

I love that the fans imagine. I love that they're

50:27

excited about it. I'm excited

50:29

about it, but one

50:31

foot in front of the other right now, though. I

50:34

think for me, it's going

50:36

well. It's at its normal development point

50:39

in the way I make these

50:41

stories happen. And so we'll

50:44

see. It's been fun to really dive

50:46

into and working with John on his

50:48

movie. And that's

50:50

exciting. And all the other things

50:52

that we're developing, it's

50:55

different. It's different for me now than it was before,

50:57

because now I'm involved in everything.

51:01

Yeah. You're a suit. No,

51:06

but hey, listen, Filoni is

51:08

a solid creative, but

51:11

he is involved in everything. And he

51:13

does sit at the

51:15

executive level of Lucasfilm. And

51:18

so he's got a lot of things flying in

51:20

front of him. He does say he's developing the

51:23

Ahsoka 2, season two. Script

51:26

right now. And I

51:29

think the direction in

51:31

which he pushes that story will

51:34

determine the direction of his

51:36

feature film. And his

51:38

film is supposed to be that

51:41

culmination event of the Filoni verse

51:43

slash Favreau verse, but

51:45

John also has his own film happening

51:48

and it's coming out in a couple

51:50

of years, Mandalorian and

51:52

Grogu. So, uh, December

51:54

20th, 26th, right. And

51:58

we'll be there. But yeah,

52:02

I'm really looking forward to that

52:04

one because I think John Favreau

52:06

is a quality storyteller and technically

52:09

speaking, someone who really knows about

52:12

the mechanics of big budget

52:15

special effects laid in

52:17

filmmaking. He's been on

52:19

the forefront of developing that technology

52:21

much like George Lucas was through

52:24

all of his career. It's

52:28

between the Favreau and Filoni. They

52:31

really do pick up the baton that

52:33

George Lucas set down once he retired.

52:36

Favreau understands the technological

52:38

edge and he also

52:40

has a profound connection

52:42

with Star Wars storytelling.

52:46

Dave Filoni is a

52:48

protege of George Lucas and

52:50

understands the mechanics of

52:52

Star Wars storytelling as well. So

52:55

between the two of those

52:57

guys, we're sitting very pretty

53:00

as Star Wars fans, I think. And

53:02

I'm so excited about the Mandalorian movie.

53:04

I'm very excited about Dave Filoni's movie.

53:07

And I think that a

53:09

lot of my hang ups about

53:12

the Ahsoka story as it unfolded

53:14

in season one, hopefully

53:16

fingers crossed those

53:18

anxieties will be put to rest via

53:21

season two. And

53:23

I think Dave Filoni's experience will

53:25

then increase

53:27

his ability to tell more

53:29

fleshed out stories. So

53:32

he's not a guy who sticks his head in

53:35

the sand. He says in the interview, he does

53:37

a good job of ducking

53:39

and weaving from online discussions

53:42

about his projects. But

53:45

we also know there was a time when he was

53:47

very connected to our

53:50

discussions about his projects. And

53:54

so I think a combination

53:56

of the knowledge

53:58

of what fans want. And

54:00

also his developing skills

54:02

as a filmmaker and

54:04

storyteller will. Eventually emerge

54:06

into a quality. Experience.

54:09

With Asoka season two fingers

54:11

crossed, fingers close. Great year

54:13

from De Vries ever made

54:15

and and. Guy

54:17

I hope the academy's the considers

54:20

soak. The kids are really bus

54:22

in their their home to to

54:24

try to get some acknowledgement for

54:26

the series else this is all

54:29

about you know for your consideration

54:31

and will have more highlights next

54:33

week on our of Far from

54:35

other moments throughout this. Publicity.

54:39

Tour they're doing to try

54:41

to earn some some. Blink.

54:44

For. The A Sofa Series. So more

54:46

than next week to see. It

54:49

as react type of them have revolutionized

54:51

made. last year I thought I'd try

54:53

to force. The. The

54:55

delicious ice cold taste of Dr. Pepper has

54:57

a lasting effect on people. Lindsay from Sacramento

54:59

said... Pro tip, 40 degrees is the

55:02

perfect temperature for an ice cold Dr. Pepper. Why

55:04

is 40 degrees the perfect temperature for Dr.

55:06

Pepper? We brought in Sue from Duluth, Minnesota to

55:08

tell us. Oh yeah, I know a thing or two

55:10

about cold. Oh, that right there is the

55:13

perfect kind of ice cold for Dr. Pepper. I'd

55:15

share that with my friend Nancy. She likes Dr.

55:17

Pepper too, you know. My coldest... Alright, that'll

55:19

be all, Sue. Having a perfect temperature for

55:22

your Dr. Pepper? It's a Pepper thing. Inspired

55:24

by Real Fan Posts. All

55:27

right So from the are day sony the

55:29

F status and so. Let's. Not leave

55:31

him waiting. For

55:38

you gonna. First for

55:41

him on the map. will never

55:43

find a more wretched hive of

55:45

scum and villainy. Him as a

55:47

costs are now. Aren't

55:53

as we promise. We've got him here joining

55:56

us. Fj. To

55:58

Santo We love login! Geez. Take

56:00

whenever there's a new Star Wars television

56:02

or any new Star Wars anything are

56:04

coming up a particularly. It's a treat

56:07

when there's a new Star Wars television

56:09

series to get his taken after. We

56:11

like to have you on after we've

56:13

had a little bit of a taste,

56:15

your couple or three episodes and then

56:17

you come on and. Tell

56:19

us where you think things are going

56:21

or where they're getting it. Right, Where

56:23

they're getting it wrong. And with the

56:25

accolade in particular I would say that

56:27

I haven't seen Say and I'm this.

56:30

Torn. This red

56:32

hot. Of. In

56:35

a long time, Probably since. Probably.

56:38

Since the between the last July

56:40

and Rise of Skywalker. I

56:43

think that's the last time we scenes of

56:45

Sands. Really this

56:47

divided on something so I know you

56:49

were they are. You saw the Acolyte

56:51

premier. Or. Same as Juri Mack

56:54

saw it the one that would was

56:56

in the theaters when you left that

56:58

see it or did you see that

57:00

this show was going to continue to

57:02

get the. Know

57:04

is that the I or that it seems to be getting.

57:08

Know I walked out of it really liking it.

57:10

So I went to the. Because

57:14

say, an event. but it's really

57:16

the premier. Israel and

57:18

spend the woman from erratic with

57:20

excel. And I've been

57:23

lucky to go to the last. So

57:25

many they've done to them when two men were in

57:27

the winter. So. Go into

57:29

and because it. To.

57:31

The three min words using one

57:33

which having was coven didn't Adam

57:36

and Seven very lucky. In

57:38

getting together, these things are fortunate

57:40

that I invited some and. Will

57:43

I walked out of it? Sort of. going. Hey

57:46

and I obviously every knows we have

57:48

a giant text saying that never ends

57:50

of the private sector. Or

57:53

that you know that I was like

57:56

oh, it's You know it's a murder

57:58

mystery shopper Brothers movie itself. Almost

58:01

hung up and I really like that

58:03

and wanna see where government has retreated

58:05

to. That effect on. And.

58:08

You don't them and a just feel

58:10

like the they skirted by the first

58:12

two episodes but this third one obviously.

58:16

You know, just. Said Everybody

58:18

on Fire and Love. You.

58:22

Guys know me. I've been on this

58:24

show. How many times. Countless.

58:27

Keep the guy would easily since the

58:30

sixties and or even if something is

58:32

some point move onto the next and

58:34

and other. The girl i think both

58:36

of my name is perfect. Not up

58:38

a system as this but what I

58:40

found refreshing Ban it was in the

58:42

clear mrs what we've been fighting with

58:44

connell that if it's and I don't

58:46

know what he did on the show

58:49

I didn't listen intensely because then I

58:51

just do like cover bottles for. To

58:53

our was no child was it on he

58:55

was a non all i thought he was

58:57

on know moment we just did these are

59:00

just did the after show. This.

59:02

Week he's been attacked. me.

59:07

I mean, you shouldn't do that. I'm

59:09

like maurice therapist after all Li said

59:11

Ray Anderson playing lately. He's

59:14

losing his goddamn my and.

59:20

Let's look mommy start and sort

59:22

of them One I think this

59:24

is. Hated. And

59:27

then actually. Do what very few

59:29

people actually doing which is. Actually, Government

59:32

the show. right? And what

59:34

it is. what it isn't. So.

59:37

I'm of the belief. And.

59:40

With keeping hundreds of a middle aged due to

59:42

lives in the major city I don't really I

59:44

wouldn't cities over and over the world. I don't

59:47

pretend to know. Them okay.

59:50

And. What?

59:52

What I think this is.

59:55

Is. Couple things. I

59:57

think it's an easy target. Because.

1:00:00

filmmakers and I think

1:00:02

it carries on a semi-true,

1:00:06

semi-false narrative about Lucasfilm and

1:00:09

their mandates. I think some

1:00:11

of it's very, very overblown and I think some of

1:00:14

it's justified. But

1:00:16

I also think it's

1:00:20

a sort of perfect storm of all

1:00:22

that stuff but

1:00:26

also a certain degree

1:00:28

of erosion of goodwill with

1:00:31

the core fan base in particular. And

1:00:33

what the fan base isn't doing is

1:00:37

expanding and it's

1:00:39

not finding

1:00:42

a way to connect with younger viewers, etc.

1:00:44

You know, like that's the one big thing I'm

1:00:46

seeing is, you know,

1:00:50

kids like Kyle's kids age and stuff like

1:00:52

that are just sort of check

1:00:54

that of Star Wars and there is a sort of

1:00:58

social media narrative that, you know, hey

1:01:00

Star Wars sucks now and

1:01:03

that's done. And, you know, hey

1:01:06

this woman directing this thing, it's

1:01:08

got an agenda, it's got all these things. And

1:01:13

while I

1:01:16

don't necessarily disagree with how it's presented

1:01:20

when you actually watch the show, I don't

1:01:23

really see that entirely

1:01:25

in the show. I feel like the

1:01:27

majority of the people I argue with over the show are like,

1:01:31

in particular, I hate to call

1:01:33

it Kyle, but like literally he's

1:01:36

pointing out things like, well that shit's in the

1:01:38

shot. He's like, there's

1:01:40

no myth. It's like, they're witches, there's

1:01:43

Jedi, like there's myth, like it's

1:01:46

a different sect of the Force, you know what I

1:01:48

mean? Like, you know, it was like there's no hope

1:01:50

to it. It's like the whole main character, Saul, is

1:01:52

about having hope for this girl,

1:01:55

right, and helping her and saving her in

1:01:58

the first two episodes. Again,

1:02:01

the problem with

1:02:04

recent Star Wars in particular goes

1:02:06

back to something that I've said many, many times on this

1:02:09

show, which is always about the execution.

1:02:12

I always feel like the intention is right. I

1:02:15

feel like the ideas are good and

1:02:18

the execution doesn't always land. I

1:02:21

actually think from a storytelling point of view,

1:02:23

and kind of literally going to show up at

1:02:25

my door for this. I actually think

1:02:27

this is better storytelling than Ahsoka

1:02:30

and Book of Boba Fett and

1:02:33

Most of Mando season three. In

1:02:35

terms of, let me explain. I

1:02:39

think it has the benefit of not having

1:02:41

the baggage of the Skywalkers and the past,

1:02:43

because all the

1:02:46

other ones do. You've got a friggin baby

1:02:48

Yoda, like you're making these connections. The Empire,

1:02:50

you're making those connections. A

1:02:52

guy in a Boba Fett outfit who's not Boba

1:02:54

Fett, you make those connections. Ahsoka has the baggage

1:02:56

of the other shows. Boba Fett has the Boba

1:02:58

Fett package. Again, obviously,

1:03:00

as we all know, Andor exists

1:03:03

on its own planet. It

1:03:06

hovers above everything, like Rogue One

1:03:08

does in Andor. It's the pinnacle of

1:03:11

modern Star Wars filmmaking. The one time

1:03:14

somebody's gotten it completely right from

1:03:17

top to bottom. With

1:03:21

this show, I think my enjoyment

1:03:23

of it is

1:03:25

its simplicity. Now,

1:03:27

by the way, I'm not unaware

1:03:30

of the

1:03:33

social media onslaught on it.

1:03:36

That's certainly not to say it doesn't impact my response

1:03:39

to that, in that I walked out of

1:03:45

it going, oh, it didn't suck. Was

1:03:48

it great? But it didn't suck.

1:03:51

Like, hey, this is an intriguing story. These are

1:03:53

new characters. And I think about

1:03:55

when I was seven, eight years old,

1:03:57

and you'd buy a toy of a random

1:03:59

character. in the back of the friggin'

1:04:01

cantina and they finally had a name. Right

1:04:05

now, like, shit, who is that? What's your story? So,

1:04:07

Nancy is like, when the

1:04:09

show opens and it's Carrie and Moss, it's like, what

1:04:12

are you about? You know what

1:04:14

I mean? What's Saul about? What's this

1:04:16

character about? I still try to

1:04:18

tap into that childhood,

1:04:21

like I love the visual

1:04:24

dictionaries, right? That they do.

1:04:27

Oh yeah. Like, to the point where it's

1:04:29

like, oh, it's the fabric of this tunic

1:04:31

is made of whatever the hell. You know

1:04:33

what I mean? Yeah. I

1:04:35

love that stuff. Yeah, I

1:04:37

love that stuff. Like, those literally between the art

1:04:40

of books and the visual guts, only stuff I

1:04:42

find, you know, from book with you. And,

1:04:44

you know, I don't know,

1:04:48

like, I haven't read The High Republic. That's another

1:04:50

thing everybody knows. I never read the books. I wait

1:04:52

for you guys or Kyle or somebody to tell me, like, you need

1:04:54

to know this shit. And I go, okay, great, we need to know

1:04:56

this shit. So I'm judging it purely on

1:04:58

the show. And I

1:05:02

thought in particular about the time the second episode

1:05:04

ended, that, hey,

1:05:07

you know, like, hey, this is an interesting set up. Now,

1:05:10

could the mystery have been stronger?

1:05:12

Sure. Could the execution, I

1:05:15

like the fights, but I'm a Kung Fu

1:05:17

movie guy. Everybody knows that. So like, you're

1:05:19

speaking to me with this, right? Like, you

1:05:22

know, I'm married to a Korean and my mother-in-law

1:05:24

knows who that guy is. I'm an

1:05:26

American child. Oh my God, this guy is an American child. And,

1:05:29

you know, so it's like, I'm

1:05:33

sitting there going, to

1:05:35

me, the

1:05:37

problem with Star Wars in particular is

1:05:40

the weight of expectation. And we've talked about this before.

1:05:42

There's always a weight of expectation because of the history

1:05:45

and, you know, Star

1:05:47

Wars itself is this

1:05:50

monument to filmmaking and

1:05:53

franchises and is a,

1:05:56

literally, one of the few things that you could say is a global.

1:06:00

defining things. There's

1:06:02

very few things you can think of. Matrix doesn't

1:06:04

do that. It's influential,

1:06:07

but it's not a world-changing

1:06:09

thing. And the Star

1:06:12

Trek, I love Star Trek, you guys know that. Not

1:06:14

a world-changing thing. Great impact on

1:06:16

the world, you know, great

1:06:18

influence on the world, great fan

1:06:21

base, but didn't

1:06:23

change filmmaking, didn't

1:06:25

change franchises, didn't change effects,

1:06:29

didn't change storytelling, blah, blah. And

1:06:32

so the problem is, can

1:06:35

you imagine, by the way, social media

1:06:37

when the prequels came out, if you had

1:06:39

that shit? Yeah, Lucas

1:06:41

would have put out Phantom Menace and gone

1:06:43

home. He just

1:06:45

wouldn't want to keep on going home. George

1:06:48

would have been cancelled after the Moidean set

1:06:50

his first line. Or George

1:06:52

R. Binks or some of that. FJ,

1:06:56

I want to go back to something that you said, because I thought

1:06:58

it was really interesting. You

1:07:01

talked about this being, we can thank Kyle for this

1:07:03

too. This

1:07:06

is great, because he spurs the

1:07:09

conversation. Let's talk about what you said

1:07:11

about the erosion of trust and not

1:07:13

expanding the fan base. Because there is

1:07:15

a narrative, and I'll say that I

1:07:17

fall into it, where

1:07:21

I feel as though this is

1:07:24

the result of them trying to expand

1:07:26

the fan base. I'll give you some

1:07:28

examples. I

1:07:32

can find the article, but recently there

1:07:34

were some statistics that talked about

1:07:36

how Star Wars was and continues

1:07:38

to be overwhelmingly a male-dominated brand.

1:07:43

The narrative is that

1:07:46

that is either inconvenient

1:07:48

for Lucasfilm, that is embarrassing to

1:07:50

Lucasfilm, and therefore they're

1:07:52

doing everything they can to

1:07:55

attract more female viewers, more

1:07:58

marginalized people, things like that. like this,

1:08:01

that on its surface, you say,

1:08:03

well, that's not bad. We want

1:08:05

everybody to love Star Wars. I grew up in a

1:08:07

family of all female cousins back

1:08:09

in the 80s and they loved Star Wars just

1:08:11

as much as I did. They

1:08:13

saw the same movies I saw. So on

1:08:16

its face, that's not a bad thing.

1:08:18

We want everybody to love this. But

1:08:21

the narrative is that they are purposely

1:08:23

changing the way they tell the story

1:08:26

and what stories they tell to

1:08:30

build a new

1:08:32

fan base. But what you said earlier

1:08:34

was that this franchise is not expanding

1:08:36

the fan base. So is it backfiring

1:08:38

on them? Or is that

1:08:42

just sort of a straw man,

1:08:44

that that's not really what's happening? No,

1:08:48

I agree with a lot of it. You know, my big

1:08:51

argument with you is, I don't think they're embarrassed by

1:08:53

anything. I think they're just overthinking

1:08:56

everything. And yes,

1:08:59

absolutely, there's a mandate, expand the audience,

1:09:01

expand it to blah, blah, blah.

1:09:04

I mean, that's business. Yeah,

1:09:06

I mean, look, that is business. Look,

1:09:08

that's clearly corporate mandate, okay? So

1:09:12

as much as everybody wants to blame Kennedy Kennedy and

1:09:14

blah, blah, blah, you know,

1:09:17

who obviously is

1:09:19

not blameless as,

1:09:21

you know, she's the head of the company. And

1:09:25

with this show in particular, well,

1:09:28

I know the first episode

1:09:30

followed a dude Jedi around

1:09:34

who had another dude with no shirt

1:09:36

on. And, you

1:09:39

know, and this paddle, like, maybe

1:09:42

that's me, you know, like, I'm like, okay, that's cool.

1:09:44

Like, really, it's good. I don't give a shit who

1:09:46

it is, right? Yeah. And,

1:09:48

but to your point, yes,

1:09:51

they're sitting there going, I don't think

1:09:53

they're changing the storytelling, okay? Then

1:09:56

like, I don't think they're sitting there going, change this

1:09:58

to this. I think. I think they're developing

1:10:00

things with the idea of what you're talking about,

1:10:03

which is make it as broad and accessible

1:10:05

to everybody, and subsequently

1:10:09

in many ways they do miss the warp. In

1:10:12

terms of, but again, it's one of those

1:10:14

things, like this is what people don't friggin'

1:10:17

get. It's like, and again,

1:10:19

this is another thing I said before they were even doing the TV shows.

1:10:23

There's an audience growing up

1:10:25

with this that you and

1:10:27

I, three

1:10:29

of us as old men, cannot understand

1:10:33

that this may

1:10:35

speak to a young girl, or

1:10:37

this may speak to Korean kids seeing

1:10:40

famous actors in a Star Wars show. You

1:10:42

don't know what that's gonna be five,

1:10:44

ten, fifteen years from now, and

1:10:47

now, even though I said

1:10:49

this for many years and sounded like a dipshit, it's

1:10:53

been proven with what we call prequel

1:10:55

nostalgia last year with Obi-Wan. Right. I

1:10:58

get this argument, where people

1:11:00

are always saying, well, you

1:11:02

know, the original trilogy was

1:11:04

so impactful on a generation,

1:11:06

the prequel trilogy was so

1:11:08

impactful on a generation, and

1:11:12

the fandom and passion among

1:11:14

those fans developed in the

1:11:16

years following the release as

1:11:18

these fans grew into adulthood.

1:11:21

Right. And then

1:11:23

they say, well, that's gonna happen with the sequel trilogy,

1:11:25

too. And I push

1:11:27

back on that a little bit, because

1:11:30

entertainment is so segmented now. There

1:11:33

aren't, I mean, we don't have

1:11:35

universal entertainment like we did in

1:11:37

the original trilogy era, or we

1:11:39

did in the prequel era. There

1:11:42

are just too many different places

1:11:44

to find entertainment, and

1:11:46

it's become so segmented

1:11:49

that to build

1:11:52

a big hit now is

1:11:55

really, really hard, because

1:11:57

everyone has their own

1:11:59

specific. Pacific places where

1:12:01

they find entertainment It's

1:12:04

not like the old days when we had

1:12:06

three TV channels and a couple of UHF

1:12:08

channels and Everybody went to

1:12:10

the movie theaters every weekend those

1:12:12

days are over So

1:12:15

I don't know if

1:12:17

the mojo exists to

1:12:19

make the sequel trilogy as much

1:12:23

of a cultural monument

1:12:27

to Star Wars like the

1:12:29

OT and The prequel trilogy

1:12:31

just because of the way

1:12:33

that content consumption has evolved

1:12:37

You're totally right. However

1:12:40

The one thing I'm gonna push back on a couple of things

1:12:44

is in terms of business

1:12:46

and consumption 99%

1:12:48

of everything you said a fully agree with sorry

1:12:51

the light went out in the office The

1:12:55

lights are going I think No,

1:12:57

I know I'm causing

1:12:59

all kinds of trouble Here's

1:13:01

why I disagree. I think

1:13:04

we can't answer that question because

1:13:08

fourth awakens Ray Finn

1:13:11

Poe in particular kind

1:13:13

of run Just

1:13:16

skew the edge of before the streaming age When

1:13:19

people still went to movies Yeah,

1:13:22

it still was the biggest domestic box office

1:13:24

in of all time Your

1:13:27

kids You wouldn't have Star

1:13:29

Wars TV, right? there's

1:13:31

somebody made a documentary when they

1:13:33

tried to do that and the

1:13:37

So, you know to your

1:13:39

point cultural changes absolutely

1:13:43

We can't predict 5 10

1:13:46

years from now. However, I can

1:13:48

guarantee you that in 2050 Daisy

1:13:53

Ridley's gonna walk into Star Wars celebration

1:13:55

and they're gonna go batshit crazy when

1:13:58

they're doing some movie

1:14:00

that reunites them, you know,

1:14:03

we can make generation of kids. Someone's gonna

1:14:05

do it, and then we're gonna go away. Sure.

1:14:09

And we're in a low, we're in a low, it'll come

1:14:11

back. You know, all

1:14:13

that shit. So, I mean, again, I can't argue

1:14:15

with anything. We won't know the consumption methods that,

1:14:17

it's like, look, I'll give you an example, you

1:14:19

know, I do a lot of work in the

1:14:21

comic book industry, right? In the comic book industry,

1:14:24

for the last 20 years in particular, there's

1:14:26

lots of entire young audience to video games and

1:14:28

manga and anime. In particular, now,

1:14:31

you know, and, you know, my

1:14:33

world, you have to sort of pivot, and I was like, that's why

1:14:35

I produce anime, or that's why, I mean, I always love that stuff

1:14:37

to begin with, so it was a little easy. But

1:14:41

subsequently, another thing we

1:14:44

don't have sort of, the

1:14:47

problem with this day and age we live in is, everybody's

1:14:50

got short memories, right? And

1:14:53

three years ago, especially COVID

1:14:55

shit, is Baby

1:14:58

Yoda was a cultural thing.

1:15:01

True, right? That was more

1:15:03

of a cultural, Mandalorian was more of a cultural

1:15:06

impact than the sequel

1:15:08

trilogy. And

1:15:10

I have friends my age who have

1:15:12

little kids who,

1:15:17

are starting to, who have discovered stars through the

1:15:20

Mandalorian. So when Luke Skywalker shows

1:15:22

up in the Mandalorian, they're like, oh, that

1:15:24

guy must be important. Well, guess what?

1:15:27

There's a bunch of movies about where this guy came

1:15:29

from. And you can't

1:15:32

sort of downplay

1:15:34

that. Now, it's, look, it's

1:15:36

never gonna be what it was. And that's

1:15:38

the other big problem is, you

1:15:41

know, we're the first generation of Star Wars,

1:15:43

right? We're the first, you

1:15:45

know, we, maybe I

1:15:47

am, I'm old enough briefly to remember

1:15:50

a world there was no Star Wars. So

1:15:52

you can remember briefly for, I

1:15:56

was like three or four, but the point being is you

1:15:58

can remember how that world. changed.

1:16:00

You can remember that moment for me

1:16:02

in particular, when Han Solo shut up

1:16:04

on screen for the first time and you were a completely different

1:16:06

person. You walked out of the movie. That's

1:16:08

a one in a billion thing. It's

1:16:11

not going to happen every time. You

1:16:13

know what I mean? Like, and the smartest

1:16:15

thing Lucas ever did was

1:16:18

not touch that stuff for 15 years. Right? And

1:16:22

do the prequels. And everybody hated

1:16:24

the prequels. And I guarantee you, he would have

1:16:27

literally stopped after friends of men and never come

1:16:29

back and tell everybody to go after themselves. And

1:16:33

if social media was around, you mean, But

1:16:35

again, my nephew is 25 years old. He

1:16:37

don't look at Jar Jar Binks the way

1:16:39

we do. You know,

1:16:41

to him, you know, I've said this before, Amadale

1:16:43

is no different than Leia to him, because

1:16:46

it's all part of that bigger story. Forget

1:16:48

the quality of the movies. Because

1:16:50

guess what? And this is this was sort of

1:16:52

I was talking to you guys about this on the chat the

1:16:55

other day, is, you

1:16:57

know, I went to go see Phantom Menace. Was

1:17:00

it, you know, like a week ago, or

1:17:03

a month ago? Yeah. And I went

1:17:05

with Kyle, I put the picture on

1:17:07

the Facebook group. And wait,

1:17:10

you went with Kyle to see the Phantom Menace?

1:17:13

You went with Kyle? No, no, this

1:17:16

past month. Yeah, we went together. No kidding. And

1:17:18

no kidding. Did you not pay attention on Facebook

1:17:20

group? I put it on there. And

1:17:23

you know, I mean, I'm too busy. Well,

1:17:30

that too. Yeah, that little thing in

1:17:32

the way sometimes. The

1:17:34

last time I'd seen Phantom Menace on the big screen was

1:17:37

the 3d version Kyle

1:17:41

and I went to the Fox lot in advance screening

1:17:43

of it. 2012.

1:17:45

And yeah, and

1:17:47

he and I did that. And

1:17:51

but I distinctly remember myself someone

1:17:53

from the photo. And so

1:17:56

what was interesting

1:18:00

was I have a distinct memory of

1:18:03

10 minutes

1:18:05

in Phantom Medicine went, uh oh. Uh

1:18:09

oh. Like, I don't know.

1:18:12

Yeah, like I remember, like, it was

1:18:15

like when the Decadroids come out or the

1:18:17

Roger Roger shit happens, and I'm like, that's

1:18:19

funny. And

1:18:22

you know, and I sort of, but

1:18:25

then I remember the only time I got goose bumps and it happened

1:18:28

that a month ago was when

1:18:30

Obi-Wan burst free and attacked Darth Maul. Like, that

1:18:32

star was like the hair, back of the neck,

1:18:35

and all that shit stands up. Right?

1:18:38

Well, and I remember a lot of people,

1:18:40

you know, sort of poo-pooing the movie and

1:18:42

not liking it and all that shit. And

1:18:46

as this group knows, you know, we've

1:18:48

been prequel apologists for a number

1:18:50

of years. But for

1:18:52

me, it's I

1:18:59

love this world so much that

1:19:02

anything more I can learn about it, I'm

1:19:05

OK with. Right? Now,

1:19:07

it sounds like I'm lowering my

1:19:09

standards or whatever. Like,

1:19:12

I refuse to put my, which

1:19:15

is what Kyle does, he puts his director hat

1:19:17

on, he puts his writer hat on, I refuse

1:19:19

to put my producer hat on or my writer

1:19:21

hat on. There are tons of I said. That's

1:19:23

interesting. Like, hey, if you did Last Jedi, you

1:19:25

could have done it this way. You know, you

1:19:27

couldn't done this and write a dialogue like that

1:19:29

moment. But I'm not going to get angry

1:19:32

at it. Right? Like, I just, you

1:19:34

know, I said this every time. I don't get angry. So

1:19:37

like, OK, I don't know anything

1:19:39

about the Jedi 100 years before Phantom Menace. And

1:19:42

guess what? They're kind of dicks. And,

1:19:44

you know, they're going

1:19:46

around planets looking for

1:19:48

kids, which when

1:19:51

you're in Phantom Menace and it's quite gone, it's like,

1:19:53

hey, you're actually saving this kid. And

1:19:55

these Jedi the other night are sitting there plugging these kids

1:19:58

from their mom. Right, like, there's

1:20:01

that interesting. That's interesting to me, like, the

1:20:04

arrogance of the Jedi. You gotta remember, like, you watch

1:20:06

the prequel trilogy, the

1:20:08

Jedi are stupid. The

1:20:11

Jedi are suckers. Palpatine plays them three

1:20:14

movies. Yes. Plays them. By

1:20:16

the time Mace Windu says, something

1:20:21

along the lines of, I believe

1:20:23

there's something going on here to

1:20:25

destroy the Jedi. I

1:20:27

think he says it about midway through Revenge

1:20:29

of the Sith. And you

1:20:31

just want to yell at the screen, finally!

1:20:35

Finally! You just figured this shit out,

1:20:37

right? So it's like, the point being

1:20:39

is, I take

1:20:41

that kernel, working backwards,

1:20:43

to this. Where

1:20:46

these Jedi who are showing up to, you know,

1:20:48

16 years before to take these kids, are

1:20:52

arrogant, and Saul is

1:20:54

naive. You

1:20:56

know, at that point, when you look at it,

1:20:58

Saul in the third episode is very different than

1:21:00

the present day Saul in the first two episodes. He's

1:21:03

very jaded, he's very deep, and blah

1:21:05

blah blah. This one he's very sweet, and, you know, he

1:21:08

almost reminds me of Obi-Wan in the Phantom

1:21:10

Menace, you know, he's idealistic, etc. Like,

1:21:13

I can help you become a Jedi, blah blah blah. They

1:21:15

rescued me too, and it's like, who

1:21:17

that guy is in that scene with the

1:21:20

little kid is very different than the guy

1:21:22

we see in the first two episodes. And

1:21:24

I thought that was really interesting, but it's

1:21:26

like, clearly, you know, and again,

1:21:28

no one's, you know, all this shit on your

1:21:31

Facebook page, very few people are

1:21:33

actually talking about the show, right? Well,

1:21:35

I know, I know that, and that's been a

1:21:37

big surprise for me. But what do you say?

1:21:39

Like, what do you mean it is? And it

1:21:41

depresses Jason. Jason gets depressed because

1:21:43

of that. For me, if

1:21:45

I go on that, you know...

1:21:49

You're gonna be more than just Kyle Newman's therapist.

1:21:52

I think you're gonna have to take on

1:21:54

another client. Well, that's Jason every time he

1:21:56

looks in the Facebook page. That's the thing

1:21:58

that is really... driven me

1:22:00

crazy is that I'll sit here

1:22:02

and we can talk about the merits of

1:22:05

the show, the quality of the show. We

1:22:07

did it for two hours this week on

1:22:09

the RFR after show. What

1:22:13

I'm less interested in though is

1:22:16

everybody carrying in their personal

1:22:18

politics and all of this.

1:22:21

I actually heard a commentator talking about

1:22:24

the witches being in Star Wars

1:22:26

and how this radical

1:22:29

new take, this new thing

1:22:31

in Star Wars and they're

1:22:33

trying to insert satanic

1:22:38

BS and all this into Star Wars. I

1:22:40

thought that's just not the way to show

1:22:42

it. Witches have

1:22:44

been in Star Wars since the

1:22:47

second Ewok film for

1:22:49

one and their role was expanded

1:22:52

throughout the Clone Wars and

1:22:55

into Ahsoka. This

1:23:00

is band wagging. There's a lot of

1:23:02

people that are opportunists and obviously there's

1:23:04

a culture war that's going

1:23:08

on and then there's this band wagging where

1:23:10

they go, okay, so Star Wars is the

1:23:12

target right now. I'm going

1:23:14

to jump on this. Sometimes these people

1:23:16

have my sympathies. When it comes to

1:23:18

Star Wars though, they absolutely don't. I

1:23:21

think that they're showing first

1:23:23

of all how ignorant they are. Star

1:23:26

Wars has nearly 50 years of

1:23:29

lore and mythology for these people to jump

1:23:31

in and add their social

1:23:33

commentary because they watched 10 minutes

1:23:36

of a Disney Plus TV show.

1:23:39

They got to check themselves. They really do.

1:23:41

I think some of that attitude is what's

1:23:43

spilling on to our Facebook group.

1:23:46

It drives me crazy. It's

1:23:48

not damn slow. It's

1:23:53

not limited to

1:23:55

your Facebook. No,

1:23:57

it's everywhere. Random

1:24:01

people are texting me wanting

1:24:03

to debate this show. And

1:24:06

the second I engage with one or two people, it's

1:24:09

good, you didn't want to show. You watched

1:24:11

some recast video. Where you saw something on Twitter. I'll

1:24:13

give you the example, I'll give you two examples. The

1:24:18

perfect example is, I'll give you two, one from

1:24:20

the third episode, one from the second episode. Third

1:24:23

episode is the whole conception of

1:24:25

the children thing, right? And

1:24:28

she goes, well, I carried them. And the other

1:24:30

one says, I created them, right?

1:24:33

That's insane, right? Like that's

1:24:35

dark force shit. And then, you

1:24:37

know, she makes that other

1:24:39

Jedi's eyes go black and takes

1:24:42

over, like she got some crazy

1:24:44

shit going on. Now you can argue the

1:24:46

execution isn't powerful enough. But

1:24:48

like, I had three people

1:24:50

all go, that diminishes Anakin's

1:24:53

birth, no. Yes, that's a

1:24:55

comic thing going around. But

1:24:57

unless we find out otherwise, Anakin's

1:25:00

the immaculate conception, this

1:25:02

is a forced conception, right?

1:25:05

Or it should say forced, intentional

1:25:07

conception. Manufactured

1:25:10

conception. How they

1:25:12

literally use midi-chlorians, right? You forget, Matorbin

1:25:14

takes her midi-chlorian count. We don't know

1:25:16

what happens with that yet, right?

1:25:19

That's a good point. And

1:25:21

that's the other one, is people aren't actually fucking

1:25:23

paying attention to the show, right? So

1:25:26

you seem to be going, why do you take a midi-chlorians? If this

1:25:28

doesn't pay off, then it's the fault of the

1:25:30

director, right? But the other thing is like,

1:25:33

you know, you end up seeing the bit

1:25:35

about the second episode is, she

1:25:38

goes to that temple, right? Which I

1:25:40

think is super cool to see Jedi

1:25:42

temples and you know, the Jedi's. Yeah, yeah,

1:25:44

always. It's been floating for

1:25:46

12 years. And

1:25:50

everybody seems to, everybody's more concerned about

1:25:52

his receding hairline than they are. And

1:25:55

the fake beard, yeah. The

1:25:58

half to the fount that they... through

1:26:00

these kids over in some way, shape

1:26:02

or form. Again,

1:26:04

argue the execution. I don't care. Well,

1:26:06

I mean, nobody's gonna take their own

1:26:08

life as a result of feeling the

1:26:10

guilt of something they did if

1:26:13

it wasn't something extremely significant. And

1:26:16

that part of the story is

1:26:18

yet to be told. He

1:26:20

says, I've been waiting for you. That's

1:26:23

crazy. That's, now, yeah,

1:26:25

that's very interesting. To dig deep into

1:26:27

that particular comment. We were the first

1:26:30

time we talked about the goddamn show. Well,

1:26:33

I mean, we were crafting the interview, FJ, a

1:26:35

bit. So

1:26:43

there's a lot of things swirling around

1:26:45

this show. And we did do a

1:26:48

complete breakdown of that third

1:26:50

episode. And yes,

1:26:52

we made the conscious effort

1:26:54

to stick to the lore that's

1:26:57

being presented in the show. And

1:27:00

I think we did a really damn

1:27:02

good job of sticking to

1:27:04

the landing as far as that went. Some

1:27:07

people are saying things like, well, thanks

1:27:09

for doing such a positive review. And

1:27:12

it's like, well, it's not like we're giving it a

1:27:15

positive or a negative review. We're

1:27:17

just breaking down and analyzing the

1:27:20

lore that's being presented in the

1:27:22

show. And almost- You

1:27:24

guys are putting away no agenda, no bullshit

1:27:26

with it. Like, here's the show. Right.

1:27:29

That's what people, I think most normal people want, is

1:27:32

what you guys are doing. I think so. I

1:27:34

don't think, there are so

1:27:36

many outlets for people who want to

1:27:39

complain and do nothing

1:27:41

but complain about it. Let them

1:27:43

have their outlets. I don't think

1:27:45

that particularly makes compelling podcasting. And

1:27:47

I'll admit something right here, right

1:27:50

now, on this microphone. I

1:27:52

was extremely and harshly critical

1:27:55

of the way the story rolled out for the

1:27:57

Ahsoka series. And at the

1:27:59

end- And of all of that, the

1:28:01

experience to me was

1:28:04

not satisfying or fulfilling because

1:28:06

I hyper-focused

1:28:09

on that one particular part, because the

1:28:12

lore is the most important thing to

1:28:14

me. And I had difficulty

1:28:16

analyzing the Ahsoka show and the

1:28:18

lore that was being presented because

1:28:20

I thought it was some

1:28:23

shoddy writings. I just thought

1:28:25

the way they executed the story was, it left

1:28:29

too many questions and

1:28:31

it was too gimmicky the way it was

1:28:33

all happening. I prefer to

1:28:35

have a character who I can

1:28:38

see the show through their eyes

1:28:41

and they aren't hiding anything from me. They

1:28:43

are on a quest for discovery. And

1:28:45

I never made that connection with Ahsoka

1:28:48

because it felt like the whole show,

1:28:50

she was hiding something. And so then

1:28:52

I look at the antagonist. And

1:28:55

I don't know what their motivation is

1:28:57

because they're hiding something. And

1:28:59

so it just got very frustrating at the end

1:29:01

of the day when I tried

1:29:03

to analyze that show. And when I

1:29:05

look back at it, I'm like, man,

1:29:07

I should have just taken a

1:29:09

more neutral approach when

1:29:11

I was breaking it all down because at the end

1:29:13

of the day, I wasn't having fun. I

1:29:16

want to have fun with Star Wars. And

1:29:18

I think the best way for me to

1:29:21

have fun with Star Wars and almost find

1:29:23

my own zen as a fan is to

1:29:26

focus purely on the lore and

1:29:28

the action figures. My

1:29:30

wallet doesn't like the fact that I focus so

1:29:33

much on the action figures. My

1:29:35

bank account hates me for that fact,

1:29:38

but hey, there has to be

1:29:40

a price to pay. Your

1:29:42

commentary is all based on execution of

1:29:45

the show itself. And

1:29:48

I don't necessarily disagree with you either. To me, and

1:29:50

I said this, I don't know

1:29:53

if I said this publicly, but the soak of

1:29:55

me is four episodes squashed over eight. It was

1:29:57

stretched over eight, I should say. Maybe

1:30:00

three episodes. And all

1:30:03

that shit. And I

1:30:05

didn't dislike it, but to

1:30:08

go back to this show, you

1:30:10

know, Acolyte, I think that was

1:30:12

the refreshing thing was when I finished those first two

1:30:14

episodes in theater, which by the way always helps when

1:30:16

you have an audience. Yes,

1:30:19

there's literally the acting off of you. A

1:30:21

row over, so excited to see themselves. You

1:30:26

know, I sat there and went,

1:30:28

okay, I know what's going on. It's

1:30:31

clean, it's simple. I know what the

1:30:34

motivations are. I know what

1:30:36

they need to do, etc. And

1:30:39

by the way, the one thing, again,

1:30:41

I don't know if we were talking about

1:30:44

the soft air, which is about the marketing and the interviews

1:30:46

and all that shit. What

1:30:48

people seem to be skipping over with

1:30:50

this third episode is they've

1:30:52

been very clear this is a

1:30:54

Rashomon style show. So

1:30:57

I actually think things

1:30:59

that people think are gaps in this third

1:31:01

episode are going to be filled out from

1:31:04

different P.O.V.s as we go. I

1:31:08

don't want to name names, but someone involved with the show

1:31:10

told me that when the show's over,

1:31:12

the third episode will feel more poignant. Well,

1:31:16

I want to go back to what

1:31:18

you were saying about the

1:31:20

Anakin Skywalker, Immaculate Conception, and all

1:31:22

of that, because we were banding

1:31:25

about some theories on the

1:31:27

after show. And we

1:31:29

had a caller that for me

1:31:31

really helped sort of reorient

1:31:33

myself with the story in the sense

1:31:36

that I was really preoccupied with the

1:31:38

witches and the Jedi. And

1:31:40

I wasn't thinking about the

1:31:43

specter of the Sith that's in the back

1:31:45

of all of this. And I

1:31:48

don't know that the show was doing a

1:31:50

great job keeping that going, but I do

1:31:52

think it's there. And

1:31:56

in this sense, I sort

1:31:58

of... of am

1:32:01

coming around to this idea that perhaps

1:32:03

the witches, or at least Anasaya, is

1:32:06

being manipulated and

1:32:09

used by a Sith that's

1:32:12

going to sort of, she

1:32:15

thinks that she's getting what she wants, which is helping

1:32:18

to repopulate her coven,

1:32:21

starting with these twins. She

1:32:23

calls them a miracle. She uses the term

1:32:25

unnatural, which is exactly the same term that

1:32:27

Palpatine used when he was talking about creating

1:32:30

life in the Opera House in

1:32:32

episode three. I

1:32:34

disagree with you. I do think that what

1:32:36

we are seeing here is

1:32:40

the prototype, as it were,

1:32:42

for the conception of

1:32:44

Anakin Skywalker. However,

1:32:47

it's a lesser

1:32:49

than conception because

1:32:52

it's not an

1:32:54

all individually powerful

1:32:56

light side, dark

1:32:58

side, balanced character. It's

1:33:01

split in two for some reason. Again, this

1:33:03

is all theory. I

1:33:07

do think that they are related

1:33:09

because we already have sort

1:33:11

of prior art for this idea

1:33:13

of a fatherless

1:33:16

conception. The

1:33:19

argument is that, well,

1:33:22

this takes away from Anakin Skywalker.

1:33:25

One, you have Rey in episode

1:33:27

nine. She ends up being

1:33:30

the one to rid the galaxy of Palpatine

1:33:32

once and for all. Anakin

1:33:34

is no longer the chosen one who

1:33:36

brought about the end of the

1:33:39

Sith. Now his

1:33:42

immaculate conception isn't even special because

1:33:44

we've got this May

1:33:46

and this ocean. There's

1:33:50

a thought that they're deconstructing

1:33:52

and sort of taking away

1:33:55

what was special about Anakin Skywalker.

1:34:00

I get the logic. I get

1:34:02

the theory. I can't argue it. I can't argue it

1:34:04

until someone says one or

1:34:06

the other. But like you can't sit there

1:34:08

and go, I'm basing my

1:34:11

theory that you're debating simply

1:34:13

based on what's on screen. So

1:34:15

what I don't understand, you know, you could sit

1:34:17

there and go, okay, these

1:34:21

witches have Sith powers, and

1:34:23

this is what, or you know, Force powers, and this

1:34:26

is what you were talking about. They need to repopulate

1:34:28

the covenant, they've been exiled. All

1:34:30

that shit. So

1:34:32

it makes sense, you know, like,

1:34:34

I met Darth Plagius in a bar,

1:34:36

he taught me how to do this or whatever, right?

1:34:39

And while

1:34:42

I totally think it can

1:34:44

connect in some

1:34:47

tangential way the Palpatine and Darth Plagius

1:34:50

the One, and that whole revenge and Sith

1:34:52

theory. Why

1:34:55

would you go to Tatooine and

1:35:00

knock up some random slave woman,

1:35:03

right? Wouldn't you go find somebody who had Force

1:35:05

powers and blah, blah, blah. That's what I was

1:35:07

talking about. Like this one being intentional, because

1:35:09

now it could be a whole thing where like, here's

1:35:12

the dumb version. Like, and I think they can't

1:35:14

say that like in the comics, which is stupid.

1:35:16

Like Palpatine goes, you know, I'm gonna use the

1:35:19

Force and conceive a baby

1:35:21

somewhere and it happens, right? Like, all

1:35:24

that. And it's lame and whatever.

1:35:26

The Immaculate Conception idea is much better just on

1:35:28

its own. And

1:35:30

again, the reason I can't debate what you're saying

1:35:32

other than all I can do is expand on

1:35:35

it, was the fact

1:35:38

that we haven't seen it yet. If they, if

1:35:40

we go through the show and you find out this

1:35:42

is how Anakin was made and someone did it

1:35:44

intentionally, it's like, well, yeah, that does diminish. I'm

1:35:48

not gonna argue that, you know, let's say some cool

1:35:50

twist we don't know about, right? And well,

1:35:53

you know, for me, that's like,

1:35:55

but, but I, I don't necessarily

1:35:57

agree that it takes everything away

1:36:00

from Anakin. I'm maybe a little bit

1:36:02

more put out by Rey being the

1:36:05

one that destroys

1:36:08

Palpatine. Because

1:36:10

it'd be like saying that, you

1:36:15

know, General Grievous takes away

1:36:17

from Darth Vader because he was sort of a

1:36:20

prototype machine man

1:36:22

sort of thing. I do think that

1:36:25

Anakin Skywalker ends up being sort

1:36:27

of the highest ideal of

1:36:30

the Force. So I think there's always going to be

1:36:32

something special about him no matter

1:36:34

what other things that the Sith or the

1:36:36

witches conjure. So I'm not letting

1:36:39

that completely ruin Anakin Skywalker for me.

1:36:42

They're going to have to work harder than that. But

1:36:45

I do think that that's a good example of people

1:36:47

grabbing onto this stuff and saying, oh, they're trying to

1:36:49

subvert. They're trying to tear down the

1:36:51

heroes that I grew up with and

1:36:53

replace them with these

1:36:56

new modern, lesser than

1:36:58

versions. And

1:37:00

it was never actually explicitly

1:37:02

stated that Anakin Skywalker was

1:37:05

the only example of a

1:37:07

dark side user manipulating

1:37:10

the Force to create life. It

1:37:12

was never said it was

1:37:16

exclusively Anakin that was never stated

1:37:18

in any of the storytelling. So

1:37:21

I think if one Sith can do it

1:37:23

others can. I get that

1:37:25

in the Mandalorian, they found a bunch of snow corns.

1:37:27

No one talks about that. Right?

1:37:30

Like, like, you know,

1:37:32

like, there are ways I

1:37:35

think they're going to connect dots and

1:37:37

things like that. It just to

1:37:39

me, it's like this

1:37:42

show has an advantage of being, you know,

1:37:44

a century before. So you

1:37:46

can maybe clock some of these things in and

1:37:48

out and, you know, go, this

1:37:50

is how Forcebergs are done. All that

1:37:52

shit. And like, something goes wrong and it

1:37:55

leads to the Immaculate Conception or some shit. Like, I

1:37:57

don't know. I don't. I don't

1:37:59

know. It's hard not but like that

1:38:01

didn't bother me like people were like

1:38:04

like Literally messaging me like

1:38:06

they ruined anneken. I'm like fuck you

1:38:08

talking about because yeah you

1:38:11

know like You

1:38:13

know intentional Conception versus mancular consumption

1:38:16

totally different things with the

1:38:18

force and and the first we know the

1:38:20

first time we've seen this right? So you

1:38:22

can't sit there and go we literally and

1:38:24

the irony is this moment in

1:38:26

the show is very

1:38:29

similar in terms of Download

1:38:32

and knowledge that we

1:38:34

got in new hope we have

1:38:36

no reference for this beforehand We

1:38:39

don't know what this means So

1:38:42

the only thing is we know there's this

1:38:44

guy Anakin a hundred years later. Yeah, be

1:38:46

right Chosen

1:38:49

one these kids are not the chosen ones right like

1:38:51

they're not and But you

1:38:54

know we do come in with our predetermined

1:38:56

notions of what the force is We

1:38:59

come in there with our predetermined notions of

1:39:01

what a dark side user and what a

1:39:03

Jedi is and and their relationship

1:39:06

to The Republic or

1:39:08

whatever now that's the one part the

1:39:10

the Jedi relationship to the Republic is

1:39:12

Is the one factor in there that

1:39:15

I see you can have a lot

1:39:17

of flexibility with? But

1:39:19

as an audience It's so

1:39:21

much different than going into a new

1:39:23

hope and not knowing anything about Star

1:39:25

Wars and having the story presented to

1:39:28

you Yes, it's this is

1:39:30

the earliest live action there is on the

1:39:32

timeline But that doesn't

1:39:34

mean that us as an audience is

1:39:36

gonna come in there and abandon all

1:39:38

knowledge we have Developed over

1:39:41

45 plus years about what? Things

1:39:45

like Jedi in the force actually is So

1:39:49

I think that's kind of an uphill

1:39:51

climb for the creators Especially if they're

1:39:53

trying to present something new in sure

1:39:55

that's a different star Yeah

1:40:00

Let me you know sort of to follow up on

1:40:02

what you're saying because I agree with you is When

1:40:05

you take a step back and you look at the sequels,

1:40:07

they've crazy shit with the force Right.

1:40:10

She's healing Lucas floating

1:40:13

sending force projections, you know,

1:40:15

save Colorado from the dead and then he returns

1:40:17

the favor Right like

1:40:19

and they have their force time where they're

1:40:21

talking to each other and the water is

1:40:23

pouring on him and all that stuff And

1:40:26

they reach that point like they added a

1:40:28

lot of new force shit into that and

1:40:31

the tricky part is to your point which

1:40:33

is Now

1:40:36

here's a hypothetical question for all

1:40:38

of us nerds which

1:40:40

is where the

1:40:42

Jedi able to do those things and those

1:40:44

are things Ray learned in the books and

1:40:47

it's shit Luke learned later and Kylo

1:40:50

found out he could stop a laser beam

1:40:52

and did they discover those things

1:40:54

by themselves? Are they the pioneers in

1:40:56

that or was that shit the Jedi did a

1:40:58

hundred years before cuz you're gonna remember Luke

1:41:01

knows Obi-Wan for about 24

1:41:04

hours trains with Yoda for about 48

1:41:06

hours, you know, he's got

1:41:08

all the sacred texts He's got time to read

1:41:11

all that enough to start his own group

1:41:13

and all that stuff and Ray inherits those books

1:41:16

You know in between second third

1:41:18

movie has ray Study that

1:41:21

stuff and that was stuff these Jedi that

1:41:23

were meeting in acting like can do that's

1:41:25

interesting or not You know, like I don't

1:41:27

know the answer to it But I'm just

1:41:29

saying well that that's something I sort of

1:41:31

posit to everybody's or like that could be

1:41:33

really interesting Like, you know could solve, you

1:41:36

know, because I mean look when you look at this like

1:41:38

they even fight differently in this Right, like where it's

1:41:40

like hey, you know, there's barely in

1:41:42

the first few episodes barely a light save It's

1:41:45

all kung fu and and again, I love that

1:41:47

shit. It's all horse kung fu and you

1:41:50

know the Jedi in

1:41:53

this show are not the Jedi in

1:41:55

the prequels and They're

1:41:57

not Luke and they're not Rey and

1:42:00

You gotta understand, Luke and Rey have

1:42:02

the disadvantage of no one teaching them. Well, she's

1:42:04

got Leia, but really what did Leia do? Leia

1:42:06

was training for what? A

1:42:08

couple years, and then she has

1:42:10

a baby, and that's it. Right? So

1:42:12

again, I'm just sort of going through the canon and all the

1:42:14

shit with that. But you know,

1:42:17

like, you know, there's a cool bit in

1:42:19

the second episode where Osa

1:42:21

falls, and Saul brings her back and says,

1:42:23

I believe you. And she's

1:42:25

hanging off the thing. It's like, oh, that's the cool force stuff. But

1:42:28

even the opening fight scene, like, you

1:42:31

got Carrie Anne Moss, you know, hopping

1:42:34

upstairs like a Kung Fu movie, you know, and

1:42:36

wires and stuff like that. It's like, well, that's

1:42:38

kind of the shit we imagine the Jedi doing,

1:42:40

right? And another

1:42:42

thing, because no one pays attention to actually any of

1:42:45

the media associated with the show, is,

1:42:47

and someone could correct me if

1:42:50

I interpreted this wrong, is the

1:42:52

acolyte is actually the start of the descent of

1:42:54

the Jedi that culminates in the prequel trilogy. Well,

1:42:57

yeah, that's, I think, what we'd like to

1:42:59

leave. The matching of that integral and whatever

1:43:01

happens here starts that very slow hundred-year descent,

1:43:03

right? That leaves Palpatine and the legend. So

1:43:06

you've got to look at it from those lenses, too.

1:43:08

Like, they're in the height of arrogance. Like when they

1:43:10

show up on that planet, they're arrogant. You

1:43:13

know what I mean? Like, you

1:43:15

know, like, you know, what's his

1:43:17

name? The receding hairline is sort of like nice.

1:43:21

And Saul is, you know, very naive

1:43:23

and all this stuff. And

1:43:25

with the Wookiee, we don't know anything about it yet.

1:43:29

But Carrie and Moss shows up like a

1:43:31

cop. Like a cop

1:43:34

rating, you know, like, we're going to

1:43:36

deport you. We're,

1:43:39

you know, like, this is child services. But

1:43:41

she was very happy-handed. Yeah. Yeah.

1:43:44

There's some real, you know, this is another thing that

1:43:47

Kyle pissed me off on earlier today, which was, he

1:43:49

was like, you know, New Hope reflected the values of

1:43:51

the 70s in the world of the 70s. And

1:43:54

really, that scene reflects today with immigration

1:43:56

issues and all that stuff. It's like,

1:43:58

you know, that's... very serious stuff

1:44:00

in the guise of Star Wars. And

1:44:03

I find that very, very interesting.

1:44:06

I find it very dramatic. And

1:44:09

by the way, I still want one

1:44:12

show where the Jedi are

1:44:14

just super heroic swashbucklers and it's fun

1:44:17

and blah, blah, I'm hoping someone figures out how

1:44:20

to do the Ewan, they

1:44:22

need to do a show that's Hayden,

1:44:24

Ewan and a little kid who plays

1:44:26

Ahsoka, like in the height

1:44:28

of like one venture where

1:44:31

like Anakin's not bad yet, he's cool. They

1:44:34

just do cool stuff in their friends. It's a

1:44:36

no brainer. One at a

1:44:38

time. It's a no brainer too. Yeah, that

1:44:40

has been one of my frustrations, FJ, is

1:44:42

that I look around and

1:44:45

I go, where are the heroes? Because in

1:44:47

the original trilogy, it was very clear. Yes, Han

1:44:49

Solo was, you

1:44:51

know, he was a little rough around the edges,

1:44:53

but he had a pure heart and he ended

1:44:55

up saving the galaxy, or

1:44:58

playing a major part in that.

1:45:00

Luke Skywalker is sort of the

1:45:02

prototypical hero Leia as well. But

1:45:06

I look here and I look around and

1:45:08

the Jedi are flawed. The

1:45:12

new Republic is flawed when you see

1:45:14

them in the Mando verse. Everybody's

1:45:17

flawed, everybody is sort of gray. And

1:45:20

I think that for me,

1:45:22

yeah, there's nuance to it,

1:45:25

but heck, sometimes you just wanna see

1:45:27

the good guys beat the bad guys. You

1:45:29

want the black versus the white or vice

1:45:32

versa. My argument is

1:45:34

execution, right? So

1:45:37

you have this kid in the opening scene who

1:45:39

kills a Jedi. Okay, you're back. And

1:45:43

we normally associate the Jedi with good. Obviously they

1:45:45

flip that around later, where it's

1:45:47

like, oh, carrying the lost Jedi might be a

1:45:49

dick and whatever. But it's

1:45:51

like, she's not heroic. She's

1:45:54

not being presented as stoic and all that shit. Again,

1:46:01

that's a choice. Versus Saul, to

1:46:03

me, is, to me,

1:46:07

the through line of traditional Star

1:46:09

Wars hope through the thing. You

1:46:12

know, he clearly knows something happened with Mae

1:46:14

and Osha. He is an atta- you know, they even

1:46:16

say, like, your attachment to Osha. The pattern one says,

1:46:18

your attachment to Osha is weird, right?

1:46:21

Like he looks at her like a child, you know,

1:46:23

like his own child. And there's something

1:46:25

interesting with that. And he says, I believe you. Like

1:46:27

he tells him, don't mess with her. He

1:46:30

defends her at every turn and

1:46:32

subsequently, you know, makes her part of the team. And

1:46:34

they're still arguing, you know, because there are issues in

1:46:37

the X-Men of the years. She's not

1:46:39

been a Jedi. She left for a reason. We still need

1:46:41

to get into that stuff. And,

1:46:43

you know, I just think we've

1:46:45

got five more episodes of this where,

1:46:47

you know, anything can happen. It could suck.

1:46:49

It could be great. It could be whatever.

1:46:51

Right. But I'm pretty sure,

1:46:53

you know, that we're

1:46:56

going to get some of those

1:46:58

answers. You know, like, especially

1:47:00

look, the thing ends with a dude

1:47:03

in a call, a red mask and a red lightsaber. It's

1:47:05

like, what the fuck else do you want? You know what

1:47:07

I mean? So I think I think we're right here. I

1:47:09