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source for the force. With

1:03

Jason Swank and Jimmy Mack. I've seen Star

1:05

Wars 500 times. Soars number

1:07

one! This station is now the

1:09

ultimate power in the universe. I

1:12

suggest we use it. Now it's

1:14

time for level four three. We

1:16

will be honored if you will

1:18

join us. Hey

1:24

look at that. We are

1:26

back. Back,

1:28

brand new year, 2024. Happy new year everybody. New

1:35

year of Rebel Force Radio, new year of

1:37

Star Wars content. We got lots to look

1:39

forward to in 2024. We

1:42

have the Acolyte, the

1:45

Skeleton crew. We've got a new season

1:47

of the Bad Batch, the third and final

1:49

season of the Bad Batch. I

1:52

was just talking to some folks at

1:54

the day job this

1:56

week about the Bad Batch. And as I was talking,

1:58

I was talking to them. talking about the whole conflict

2:02

that they've been covering in this

2:04

series of how

2:06

they've been decommissioning the clones, getting rid of

2:08

the clones, sidelining the clones, doing all kinds

2:10

of horrible things to the clones, and getting

2:12

the conscripted troops in there. And as I

2:14

found myself getting really excited and

2:17

kind of remembering all of these great

2:19

plot points and things that are that

2:21

are happening in the Bad Batch. So

2:23

yeah, Acolytes very exciting, Skeleton Crews very

2:25

exciting, but don't forget about Bad Batch

2:27

season 3, and if you haven't checked

2:30

out Bad Batch seasons 1 and 2, I highly

2:32

recommend it. It's very very good,

2:34

and if you're looking for

2:36

that connective story about, oh I

2:39

know what it was, I know what it was.

2:41

Someone asked me if the stormtroopers

2:43

in the original trilogy were clones, and of course that

2:45

led to the whole, well all right let me tell

2:48

you, and it's all being talked about in Bad Batch.

2:50

So anyway, lots to look forward to in 2024.

2:52

I'm looking forward to it. I know you're looking

2:54

forward to it, and I know especially one

2:57

guy that's always looking forward to new Star

2:59

Wars, no matter what year it is, and

3:01

that is of course my good friend and

3:03

yours from Chicago, Jimmy Mack. Hey Jason, hey

3:06

Star Wars fans. We're

3:08

back in a saddle for a whole new

3:10

year of Star Wars, and man the year

3:12

has started off on fire. So

3:15

I was just jumping on my skin to

3:17

get behind this microphone again, so I'm

3:19

so happy we're back, and

3:21

we're ready to talk about all these, all

3:23

this hot new news that's

3:26

been accompanying Star Wars since the

3:28

beginning of the new year, including

3:31

most importantly a new film

3:34

announcement. Big news, big

3:36

news. Yeah, very big news.

3:40

This is probably, I don't

3:43

know, the most official new

3:48

film announcement that we've had in a while. I don't

3:50

know why it feels so, I guess it feels so

3:52

official because it is,

3:54

it's much more of a known quantity. John

3:57

Favreau is a known

4:00

Star Wars creative now, well

4:02

established, and so there's

4:05

something about this announcement that just

4:07

feels a lot more real. Whereas

4:09

the other ones just, you

4:12

know, we're, what do you

4:14

call that, once bitten twice shy? Well

4:16

we're like four times bitten, five

4:18

times shy, depending on how you count a

4:20

lot of these abandoned projects. For

4:23

sure. Sometimes those announcements

4:26

get made, I believe, to

4:28

pad up special

4:30

events like shareholder presentations

4:32

or Star Wars Celebration

4:35

conventions. Just the fact

4:37

that this one stood on its own and

4:40

came at us kind of out of the blue is

4:43

something that I think adds a

4:45

lot of legitimacy to it. It's

4:47

not part of some show,

4:49

it's actual news.

4:53

So we'll get into all of that. I

4:55

was just so excited jumping out of my skin. I

4:57

felt like I had the greatest

4:59

day on Tuesday. I

5:02

got a free sandwich from Potbelly's, new

5:04

Star Wars film was announced. I

5:09

got a bonus for something that

5:11

I worked on. Yeah, it was all

5:13

happening and it was very good. Traffic

5:15

wasn't bad, it was just a great

5:17

day. I'm picturing you like Spongebob, you

5:19

know, the best day ever, just

5:21

singing at the top of your lungs

5:24

driving. Oh yeah. You should go buy

5:26

a lotto ticket. You need to get

5:28

a lottery ticket. But

5:30

I don't believe in stuff like that, you

5:32

know. I don't think that's gonna change my

5:35

luck that dramatically. But things were happening that

5:37

I really appreciated, most notably the

5:39

announcement of a new Star Wars film. I

5:43

noticed that the fan reaction wasn't like as

5:45

over-the-top as it has been in the past,

5:48

maybe because there wasn't a whole circus

5:51

involved with the announcement. It just came

5:53

out of the blue early in the

5:55

morning as a press release. And You

6:00

know, it got me thinking. I

6:02

was like, wow, you know, it seems like a

6:04

sort of a tepid fan

6:06

reaction. And I think that's

6:08

just the result of so many false starts

6:10

with so many Star Wars projects over the

6:13

years has the entire

6:15

fan base sort of

6:17

feeling once bitten twice shy. And

6:20

even us here at RFR, it's not like

6:23

we stopped the presses and did an

6:25

emergency live show or anything like that. Oh,

6:28

but now, you know, we can take our

6:30

time deciphering this. What's that? 10 years

6:32

ago, we might have done that. Two

6:35

years ago, last year we would have done. Oh, I don't

6:37

know. I don't know. It's

6:39

been, it's been, we've been

6:41

living in this world of false starts

6:44

for a while now. Um,

6:46

but, but yeah, I, I didn't

6:48

feel it quite the way

6:51

we have in the past. And as I was

6:54

talking about the day job earlier, I had a couple

6:56

of people, uh, mainly they

6:59

were all asking me if the title was

7:01

real. Everybody was coming to me

7:03

saying, is it the, is that the real title

7:05

of the Mandalorian and Kroghu? That can't, that's gotta

7:07

be a working title, right? That's gotta be working

7:09

title. I think it's the real

7:11

title. I think that's the reason to believe that it's

7:13

not. So, uh,

7:15

we can start calling it, uh, well,

7:18

TMAG from now on, TMAG. TMAG.

7:21

All right. How many times did

7:24

you see TMAG? Oh

7:26

yeah. I see TMAG three times. TMAG,

7:31

TMAG, the Mandalorian and Kroghu. Well,

7:33

yeah, so much to, so much

7:36

to break down, uh, for

7:38

sure. But we do have, uh, some, uh,

7:41

acknowledge acknowledgments that we wouldn't get through here

7:43

at the top of the show. Uh,

7:45

I want to thank, uh, RFR listener, uh,

7:47

Derek Webster. He just sent me a really

7:49

great Christmas card. Um, which

7:52

was very nice. He's an RFR

7:54

listener and it came with a patch, this great

7:56

patch here of D2 with

7:58

his Santa hat. And. Apparently

8:00

he runs Padawan bear patches

8:02

and pins, but he

8:04

just said Jason and family. Merry Christmas Happy

8:07

New Year. May the force be with you

8:09

all for 2024 loyal listener Derek. So that's

8:11

very kind Derek I don't know how you

8:13

got my address, but hey more

8:18

Thank you for the Christmas card, it was very much appreciated

8:21

and the patch is really great. Thank you RFR

8:24

listeners Scott Rifin who's been

8:26

listening to our

8:29

podcast forever and He's

8:32

joined us on some events. We've

8:34

done like Star Wars weekends in

8:36

Orlando He was nice enough to

8:38

send us a couple of Disney figures

8:40

one for me. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's

8:42

so great. Thank you Scott. That's awesome.

8:45

Mm-hmm. It's a great figure R2

8:49

S4m That's

8:51

for em. You know, there's always

8:53

season for you know there's always

8:55

some sort of because this is

8:58

the holiday astromech with

9:00

the red stripe and he's got the the

9:03

bar service on top like our to and

9:06

Return of the Jedi on Java sail barge, but

9:08

they always try to hide some sort of little

9:10

meaning in those hmm letters

9:12

in numbers and I'm

9:15

just not smart enough or clever enough to

9:17

there we go. Let's get a nice wide shot of that

9:20

There's information on the back. Yeah, look at that. Yeah

9:23

Those are so much fun and you know,

9:26

are those drinks removable Jim? Can you tell

9:28

they come? Yeah, I do so so

9:31

what's great about those is if you've got the

9:34

Cantina denizens or

9:36

maybe the job is palace denizens you can

9:38

use those and stick those in

9:40

the hands of your action figures and They

9:44

look like margaritas too. So I appreciate

9:46

that Affectionately

9:49

known as Sam Huh?

9:52

as 4m I guess

9:55

Yeah, it looks like it's a Sam

9:57

little are to Sam. Okay. Got it

10:00

to Sam. So I wonder why Sam?

10:03

But he is an overworked

10:06

astromech modified with a drink

10:08

dispenser and serving tray who

10:11

delivers drinks to denizens lounging

10:13

aboard Java the Huts luxury

10:16

sail barge. I'd like to

10:18

be a denizen. Jim what are we

10:20

gonna do to be a... How long do we have

10:22

to stay at the cantina

10:24

and Galaxy's Edge before they just say oh

10:26

those are a couple of our denizens over

10:28

there. Yeah those guys don't worry about them

10:31

they're just denizens. And

10:34

do they like give you like a business

10:36

card or membership card? Yes

10:38

official denizen membership card. And

10:40

do you get invited to like

10:42

denizen club meetings and things like

10:45

that? Scott Rifen also sit along

10:47

some classic Return of the Jedi

10:50

tops wax packs. Oh

10:52

now you're talking. Look at that

10:54

those are vintage, authentic,

10:58

the gums probably still inside. Or at

11:01

least part of it. Boy he's

11:04

hit me right where I live because

11:07

Jedi was the first Star Wars movie I saw in

11:09

the theater and of course was hitting

11:12

up the... I remember we would after

11:14

a couple of viewings I would end up at

11:17

a drug store and get the

11:19

sticker packs to finish my sticker

11:21

book. And if I

11:23

was extra good I might get a couple of

11:25

the wax packs. But I

11:27

love you know my son is really

11:30

into professional football and has been getting

11:32

into football cards. But

11:35

the trading cards are so different now you know

11:37

they're not the wax

11:39

packs they come in boxes you

11:41

have to ask the store clerk

11:43

to unlock the glass case to

11:46

even get them. You

11:48

know they used to just be sitting

11:50

out near the checkout in those cardboard

11:52

boxes back in our day. In the

11:54

candy aisle. Right in

11:56

the candy aisle. Right next to your

11:58

snickers nerds and... skittles you'd see

12:00

a pack of trading cards. Yeah. And

12:03

it would cost about the same too.

12:05

Now there's such a premium attached to

12:07

collectible trading cards. They're very

12:09

expensive. They used to

12:11

be even up through I think

12:14

the last trading card set

12:16

that I collected was in

12:18

89 with the Batman movie and

12:21

they had the wax packs for that and I

12:24

think they were still a quarter? Quarter

12:26

a pack? Back then. I

12:30

bought a box of those in what

12:33

was that? 89? Yeah I bought a box. Did

12:37

you? You weren't messing around. You're like

12:39

I'm an adult now. I'm not buying

12:41

them by the pack. I'm

12:43

buying the box. It kind of worked

12:45

out that way. I took

12:47

a road trip with my dad to Cooperstown,

12:50

New York to see the Baseball Hall of

12:52

Fame and along the ride I was opening

12:55

those wax packs and

12:57

I think I developed two sets out

13:00

of those. Out of the box? Wow. Yeah I

13:02

still have the box. The cards are still there

13:04

too. Did you buy

13:06

the wax packs of the Star Wars films back

13:08

in the day? Oh yeah. Oh

13:11

yeah. I still have my originals. Your

13:14

childhood originals? Oh yeah. Yeah.

13:17

Yeah so it was always fun. I was

13:20

a big card collector. Non-sports

13:22

cards and baseball cards.

13:24

A little bit of football. I have

13:26

this very vivid memory of being so

13:29

nervous going into second

13:31

grade. Just terrifying. I

13:34

don't know what it was between first grade and second

13:36

grade but I was just so scared and

13:38

the night before the first day of school I had

13:40

my new book bag and everything was laid out and

13:43

I knew that there had

13:45

to be something that would give me comfort.

13:48

I grabbed a couple of my Return of the

13:51

Jedi Tofts trading cards and I slid them into

13:54

my backpack just knowing that

13:56

they were there. I remember being able to see them.

14:00

sort of like sneak and take them out and look

14:02

at them, but it just provided that little bit of

14:05

home, that little bit of comfort, you know, for

14:07

the comfort. What a phrase to use. Comfort.

14:09

Well, you know, we find a lot of comfort in

14:11

Star Wars, and I'm glad you brought that up because

14:13

it takes me to the

14:16

next thing I want to talk about,

14:18

and that's Kyle Newman's appearance with Wendy

14:20

Snyder on WGN Radio here in Chicago.

14:22

Kyle called into Wendy's show to,

14:25

as she conducted an interview with

14:27

him to promote a disturbance in the Force.

14:31

The topic of finding

14:34

comfort in Star Wars came up between

14:36

Kyle and Wendy, and so I have

14:38

a little clip of the interview here.

14:41

You guys can hear it on the

14:43

WGN website. We have links at rebelforceradio.com,

14:46

but this is Kyle Newman just before the

14:48

holidays with Wendy Snyder on WGN talking about,

14:51

you know, how Star Wars can be

14:54

that chicken soup for the soul you're

14:56

looking for. Right, right, right. That

14:58

also happens to you when you watch Star

15:01

Wars and you think it's a fabulous movie,

15:03

and Jimmy Mack made me watch it before

15:05

we got married because I hadn't seen it,

15:07

and I loved all the movies, but I

15:09

don't need to see them again. What

15:12

is inside a person that makes them watch

15:14

them over and over again like

15:16

you, Kyle, and like my husband? There's

15:18

a couple things. I think it's comfort.

15:21

Yeah. It's familiarity. People gravitate towards

15:23

things that make them feel at home and

15:26

make them feel like they

15:29

have a safe place, and I think Star Wars does that

15:31

for many people. It's a very big universe that has room

15:34

for a lot of people and ideas, and

15:36

what's great about Star Wars is

15:38

it also has a spiritual core. I think

15:40

people go back to that because maybe they're

15:42

not finding that spiritual thing somewhere else in

15:44

their life, so what they do is they

15:46

found these life principles in Star Wars, and

15:49

revisiting it helps reinforce it and

15:53

enrich it. I think there's a lot of mantras

15:55

and ideas that emerged from Star Wars, the philosophy

15:57

of it, that trickle into my life and my

15:59

profession. that's why I go back to

16:01

it. It's also become a family, a community of

16:03

fans. So you're partaking

16:05

in something. It's tribal, like if

16:08

you're a fan of a sports franchise. So

16:11

there's that element to it. Like

16:13

I said, it's a rich universe with tons

16:15

of Easter eggs and details and planets and

16:17

monsters and places to visit. So your imagination

16:19

is free to play. And that's

16:21

why there's been so many toys and books and

16:23

games and movies. I feel like I'm missing out

16:26

on it. Well, I know and I've

16:28

heard that you know more than you let on.

16:30

Yeah, maybe. You know, you're jow off from your

16:32

tusks and raider. I do. But

16:35

maybe it's just by association. Yeah.

16:39

It was a great interview. I was so

16:41

glad, Jim, that you sent us all the,

16:43

you threw up the bat signal the

16:46

morning that it was going out. And it was

16:48

great because it streams online. So you don't

16:51

have to actually be there in Chicago and

16:53

listen to it all. And it was a great

16:56

appearance from Kyle. But of course, Wendy

16:58

always makes, has a way of making

17:00

everybody sound good and look good. But

17:02

it was really, I encourage

17:05

everybody to listen to it because it is

17:07

a great interview with

17:10

Kyle. He's super thoughtful

17:12

and Wendy clearly had a lot

17:14

of fun with him. So it was real good. Yeah. Lucasfilm's

17:17

Leland Chi, who is a friend of RFR's,

17:19

he reached out to me and he's like,

17:22

oh my God, are your worlds colliding right

17:24

here or what? When

17:28

podcast George and

17:31

husband George collide.

17:34

Yeah. But you know, Wendy's used to that and

17:36

she's been part of that world in

17:39

you for a long time. I mean, the whole

17:41

idea of getting into Star Wars

17:43

podcasting was to combine

17:45

some of those worlds of yours.

17:47

So absolutely, absolutely. So

17:50

and I'd done a little

17:52

Star Wars coverage on

17:54

CBS radio back when the prequels were

17:56

coming out. I had so much fun

17:59

doing that. I

18:01

knew mainstream media wasn't gonna let me

18:03

continue with my regular

18:05

Star Wars reporting after

18:08

especially after Revenge of the Sith came

18:10

in when. You

18:12

weren't gonna be covering the Clone

18:14

Wars film for any big

18:16

radio stations. No, no

18:18

and the only time they would let me

18:20

cover Star Wars is like every three years

18:22

when the film would come out.

18:25

Usually when people would start showing up

18:27

in the theater lines right? Yeah the

18:29

line line. Yeah, the line.

18:32

They'd give me a big-ass cell phone and

18:34

send me out there. Go talk

18:37

to those nerds. They're

18:39

like okay the cell phone is fully charged

18:41

it'll last you half an hour so make

18:43

the most of it. Oh yeah. Remember

18:47

the big bag with the

18:49

velcro. Yeah I remember them.

18:52

Those are crazy. Those

18:54

were crazy. So that was great to

18:56

hear Kyle on with Wendy. A Disturbance

18:58

of the Force was released and

19:01

became a huge hit. 100% ranking

19:04

on Rotten Tomatoes

19:07

and I think it was named

19:09

one of the top 10 documentaries of

19:12

2023. So hats off to Kyle and

19:14

Scott Kozak. Scott Kozak who kept us

19:16

involved in that in the making of

19:19

that documentary from when it was just

19:21

a germ of an idea in his

19:23

head. And he

19:26

was kind enough to feature us a

19:29

clip of our interview with

19:31

Charlie Lippincott. Rare interview with

19:33

Charlie and feature

19:35

us in the documentary and also

19:39

Adam F Goldberg and Jeremy

19:42

Kuhn. Jeremy Kuhn who was

19:44

a producer on Napoleon

19:46

Dynamite. We had so much Napoleon

19:48

Dynamite action happening at the end

19:50

of the year. Our

19:53

Jeremy and Doug Heater

19:56

reaching out to explain to

19:58

me like how the

20:00

term ambling gets thrown around in the

20:02

film industry and then Jeremy Coons on

20:04

the show and then Then

20:07

the big end of the year

20:09

finale with Napoleon Dynamite himself John

20:12

Heater and I

20:14

was tripping out listening to a replay

20:16

of that podcast because there

20:19

are times when John is Napoleon

20:22

in that interview he

20:25

actually becomes Napoleon Yeah, and it's

20:27

you know, it's involuntary of course,

20:30

right? But But

20:32

then I'd like character, you know created the

20:34

role so it's part Yeah And it's hard

20:36

of him to me to meet conjured up

20:38

the image of like you and me walking

20:40

the high school hallways with Napoleon You know

20:43

being annoyed by everything Maybe

20:46

getting a dance lesson from him or something

20:49

gosh God and then

20:51

actually you and me voting for Pedro,

20:53

you know, that would all be part

20:55

of my dream scenario would

20:57

be part of it. Well Napoleon Dynamite has

21:00

definitely invaded our house in a

21:02

good way because both

21:04

of my kids are You

21:06

know at random time saying come

21:08

get your dinner Tina fat

21:11

Lord That's

21:15

now the the mealtime call in

21:17

our house So

21:21

anyway But

21:23

you know what the holiday season we did we

21:26

weren't unscathed by potential

21:28

tragedy and Jim

21:32

you as you do You've

21:34

always managed me quite well and

21:36

you you you were not immediate

21:40

to tell me that the

21:43

near Cataclysm

21:46

that occurred in the Mac

21:48

house over the over

21:50

the holidays only found out about it

21:53

After the fact, I it wasn't in

21:55

real time for me. So right it

21:57

was a scare There

22:00

was a scare in the Chicago

22:02

suburbs. I was

22:05

just helping Wendy

22:07

with some Christmas decorations

22:09

and stuff. I

22:12

took a brief break in the restroom

22:14

and opened the door. I

22:17

was shocked. I came out and was

22:20

just shocked to see

22:22

Puppet Lando laying face

22:24

down in my entrance hallway. We've

22:27

seen him face down

22:29

in a gutter before, but

22:31

never in the hallway of

22:33

your house. It

22:36

was scary. It was such a surreal

22:38

moment. I was like, wait a second. I had

22:40

to rub my eyes. I'm like, that

22:43

is Puppet Lando laying on the floor

22:45

face down. How did

22:47

he get there? What's going on here? Why

22:49

is he in my front hallway? Did you

22:51

think maybe one of the kids had grabbed

22:53

him? I

22:55

thought maybe he was

22:57

trying to escape. I don't know. That's

23:00

possible. I just

23:02

couldn't figure it out until I got closer

23:04

and I picked him up. His

23:07

head was all matted with

23:09

spit, like saliva. I

23:12

turned him over and I noticed that there

23:14

was a big chew

23:16

taken out of his collar,

23:18

his famous cape. There

23:21

was a big part ripped

23:23

out of there. I knew right away the

23:26

culprit here was my dog Kona. Kona

23:30

attacked Puppet Lando.

23:33

If I would have gotten the text that said, oh

23:36

no, Swank, Puppet

23:38

Lando has just been attacked by

23:41

Kona, I'm

23:43

so glad because you would have probably ruined my whole night.

23:45

I'd have been a nervous wreck about it. I

23:48

found out about it a few days

23:50

later. It was about a week and

23:52

a half after. Oh, geez. You really

23:54

kept it from me for a while.

23:58

We have some screen grabs of the... text

24:00

messaging that went on between you and me. The

24:03

first thing I sent you is a picture

24:06

of Puppet Lando, and

24:08

you can clearly see on his left

24:10

collar, it's missing. There's

24:12

a big, you know, look

24:15

at that. There it is, yeah. I

24:17

mean, Puppet Lando is someone who's

24:19

known for his suave style and

24:22

sophistication. He can't show up

24:24

at a club on Cloud City looking like

24:26

that. No,

24:28

it's just not done. I

24:30

mean, it was shocking. So I said, Swank, did

24:32

you know Kona attacked Puppet Lando?

24:34

Look at his left collar. Kona ate

24:36

it. He

24:39

ate it. And

24:41

then here's the photo. You

24:44

responded, oh no, I bet

24:46

Puppet Lando let out a squeal like

24:48

when the sarlacc wrapped its tentacle around

24:50

his leg. I wish

24:52

he did. I wish he did. He's

24:56

strangely silent when Billy Mack is not

24:58

around. He's

25:01

face down on the floor in the

25:03

front hallway. It looks so ominous. It

25:05

looks like a murder scene here. Something

25:08

out of Dateline. I should have put

25:10

the chalk mark around the outline.

25:13

The chalk mark out. Put

25:17

some caution tape up in the hallway. But

25:23

there he is, yeah. I said, I found him

25:25

face down in my front hallway. He's shocking. You

25:28

say it looks like a crime scene. CSI,

25:31

Bespin. But

25:34

thankfully, he called 911.

25:37

He went into immediate surgery via

25:40

a Wendy Snyder connection. Wendy

25:42

knows everyone. Your

25:44

puppet gets attacked by your dog and

25:46

part of its collar gets eaten. Wendy

25:49

knows who to call. She's got a

25:51

guy, she's got a collar guy. She's

25:53

got a, a puppet collar guy. Someone

25:56

who knows his way around felt. And

26:01

he was saved. Look at that.

26:04

Look at the beautiful job on

26:06

that. Seamless. It's incredible. It's seamless.

26:08

It's absolutely seamless. Wow. So,

26:11

Puppet Lando right now is resting comfortably

26:14

from his ordeal at Billy

26:17

Mac's house. Kona shows no remorse.

26:22

He's still licking his chops. He

26:24

wants another shot at that puppet. But

26:29

yeah, no remorse from the

26:31

puppy. But it

26:33

was a scare, but thankfully, Wendy came

26:35

to the rescue, and we

26:37

were able to get Puppet Lando into

26:39

surgery right away. So

26:43

we'll see what 2024 has

26:45

in store for Puppet Lando. I'm

26:48

looking forward to 2020. I think we're going to have a great

26:50

year. I think it's going to be a great year for Star

26:52

Wars. It should be pretty

26:54

exciting, pretty interesting. We're already working on

26:56

some May the 4th Be

26:58

With You plans. So,

27:01

bar see that date. I think

27:03

it's important to take advantage of it this

27:05

time around because this will be

27:07

the last Saturday May

27:10

the 4th is going to land on until the year 2030.

27:17

That's only six years away,

27:19

but it sounds so much further away.

27:21

It sounds like, you know, the science

27:23

fiction 2030. So

27:28

I thought, you know, this would

27:30

be a good year to take advantage of that. So

27:33

wheels are in motion. Not ready

27:35

to announce anything right now, but

27:37

we hope to have some exciting

27:40

news about Star Wars Day 2024.

27:42

May the 4th be with you. So

27:45

stay tuned. Hey,

27:48

it's James Earl Taylor, the voice of

27:50

Obi-Wan Kenobi, and I must tell you,

27:52

the source to the Force is

27:54

Rebel Force Radio. Your source for

27:56

the Force. Force is stronger indeed.

28:01

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Member FDIC. We've

32:09

got big news headed your way right now.

32:16

I've got news for you, my lord. That's

32:18

good news. Come closer. I have good

32:20

news. Well,

32:23

there's big news and then there's

32:25

big news and you just don't

32:27

get bigger news. I'm

32:30

going to tell you a story about the Mandalorian and Grogu. They're

32:35

not just talking about the characters. No, they're talking about

32:37

the name of the movie. Mandalorian

32:40

and Grogu embarking on a new adventure.

32:42

Two movie theaters directed by John Favreau

32:44

and produced by Favreau. Kathleen

32:48

Kennedy and Dave Flint. The

32:50

Mandalorian and Grogu are the main characters in the Mandalorian series.

32:53

They're all about the characters. They're

32:55

all about the characters. And

32:57

produced by Favreau, Kathleen Kennedy and Dave

32:59

Filoni. It's an italics,

33:01

folks. The Mandalorian and Grogu, that means it's

33:03

a title. We'll go into production in 2024.

33:08

There you go. Leapfrogging, the

33:10

other three known

33:13

Star Wars films in

33:15

production, pre-production. Plus,

33:18

you got some other outliers there. You still

33:20

got the the Levy film. You still

33:22

got the Taika Waititi film. You

33:24

still got the Lando, which

33:27

is now a film. So

33:29

it's leapfrogging the

33:31

three big ones, the Mangold,

33:33

the Filoni Mandovers and the

33:36

Charmaine Obaid Shanoi. And

33:39

Jim, here's

33:43

what I would say. It's

33:47

a sure thing. When

33:51

you look at the position that Disney and Lucasfilm

33:53

are in, I'm absolutely

33:55

certain that Lucasfilm is feeling the

33:57

pressure from Disney to get Star Wars back in the

33:59

future. the movie theaters. Oh yeah. I

34:01

think that's that is a

34:04

certainty. So if

34:06

you're Bob Iger, if you're Kathleen Kennedy, this

34:08

makes the most sense. It makes the most

34:10

sense in terms of a solid

34:13

director in Jon Favreau. It makes the

34:15

most sense in terms of solid

34:18

fan base in the whole Mandalorian

34:20

universe. Speed to

34:22

market, they've already got a

34:25

whole season. All they got to do is

34:27

compress season four into

34:31

two or two hour and 20 minute film. They can

34:33

pick the best ideas and the best

34:35

elements out of it. So

34:38

it makes a lot of sense. It does push the

34:41

others to the side. Like I said, the

34:44

Ray film, the Dave Filoni Mandoverse film,

34:46

the Mangold film and others. But

34:49

from a business standpoint, I

34:51

just don't think you could argue with this decision. No,

34:54

not at all. Let's

34:57

talk business. You immediately

34:59

are doing some

35:01

things to whittle down the budget

35:04

from a 300 million, 250

35:06

million, 300 million dollar film budget.

35:08

You can probably make a Mando

35:11

movie at half the cost

35:13

because they have so many

35:15

already existing assets. And

35:19

those will be recycled.

35:21

Everything from background alien

35:24

masks to the armor

35:28

the Mando himself wears. I'm sure

35:30

we're gonna see Grogu

35:34

probably more articulated

35:36

than ever before. And

35:39

is it possible we could get a CG Grogu?

35:42

I think they would go that far? I

35:45

don't think overall.

35:48

But possibly in certain sequences. We

35:52

may have already seen CGI Grogu

35:54

and I just don't know it. Yeah, I think

35:56

we have. There's been some scenes of him walking

35:58

and in some things but... But, um,

36:01

yeah, it would be, I don't, they

36:04

must have learned their lesson. I'm

36:06

sure with, with Yoda, it's a lot

36:08

easier said than done to

36:10

recreate, you know, as that documentary

36:12

covered from puppets to pixels. It's

36:15

not as easy. It's not as easy. You mentioned

36:17

budget. I just want to share this with you

36:20

real quick. I did a little number crunching here

36:22

and Mandalorian, uh, on

36:25

average across its three seasons cost about $120 million

36:27

per season. About

36:30

$15 million per episode. That breaks

36:32

down to about $375,000 a minute.

36:38

And I went back and I looked at the budgets for

36:40

episode seven, eight, nine. And those

36:43

budgets ranged from 300 million, as you

36:45

said, all the way up to $450 million that breaks down to

36:47

about $2.2 million a minute. So

36:54

you ain't hidden when you say that this thing can

36:56

really save a lot of

36:58

money, but still capitalize on a

37:00

very, uh, I

37:02

think, uh, devoted fan base to

37:04

this particular story, these characters, a

37:07

very bankable, uh, baby

37:09

Yoda. Grogu. It's

37:12

been something I've been wanting to see

37:15

really probably since the conclusion of season

37:17

one. I thought the Mando

37:19

was being developed on Disney plus in the

37:22

first place to develop

37:24

it into a cinematic franchise

37:27

of its own and with

37:30

Jon Favreau with the helm, a guy

37:33

who has done so

37:35

much in cinema going

37:37

all the way back to Swingers. And

37:40

then of course the stuff he did. Bringing

37:43

in the modern Marvel cinematic

37:46

universe to life with the

37:48

very first Iron Man and

37:50

then the developments in technology

37:52

via the Disney

37:54

live action remakes of

37:56

the Lion King and the

37:58

Jungle book. Right. Fabra was

38:00

at the forefront of all of that. It's

38:03

about time John gets back into the

38:05

director's chair for a feature film. The

38:09

Mandalorian is tailor-made

38:11

for movie screens.

38:14

This is what I thought they were doing with Disney

38:16

Plus in the first place, was developing new

38:19

talent and new concepts to

38:22

then graduate them into cinematic

38:25

features. I

38:28

believe the Rey film was

38:31

the next to

38:33

be released, but since the

38:35

firing of Damon Lindelof and

38:39

the hiring of Stephen Wright, or

38:42

Steven Wright,

38:45

Stephen Wright was a comedian. Initially

38:51

that script has yet to

38:53

be completed and I think

38:56

the brass at Disney was expecting it before

38:58

the end of the year, last year. So

39:01

it appears there have been some

39:04

speed bumps along the way in the development of

39:06

that film. It just

39:09

makes sense to fast-track season

39:11

four of The Mandalorian, fast-track

39:13

it into a feature film

39:15

and get it in theaters

39:17

to meet that spring 2026 date

39:21

that's already been thrown out there for

39:23

the release of the next Star Wars film.

39:26

They have to get something into

39:29

production this year, and

39:31

by this year I mean in

39:33

the first half of 2024, if

39:36

it's going to hit the screens in 2026. That

39:39

ain't going to happen with the new Jedi Order

39:42

Rey film. Not

39:44

without a completed script. No,

39:47

those three dates, just as a reminder, May

39:49

22, 2026, we're thinking that that will be

39:53

this Mandalorian and Grogu film. There's

39:56

also December 18th of the same year, 2026, and

39:58

then December 17th. 17th

40:00

2027 I

40:03

guess you could probably slot in and maybe think

40:05

that the the ray movie

40:07

would grab that December 2026

40:09

slot perhaps but they got

40:11

to really hurry up to make that Right

40:14

in the mangled film isn't even close

40:16

to being in production yet. No. No,

40:19

I wouldn't be surprised if Filoni's

40:22

culmination film is that 2027 I

40:28

I think you're you're going down the right path

40:30

here and and mangled I think is gone the

40:32

way of Taika

40:35

and Levy

40:37

and Just kind of

40:39

it's sort of out there I mean now what's

40:41

interesting about mangled though a gym is that he's

40:44

still being mentioned in these official

40:46

releases So those three those

40:48

three projects that they announced at celebration

40:50

Europe. They're there nowhere

40:52

to be found are Is

40:56

talk of Donald and Steven Glover's

40:58

Lando Nowhere to be

41:00

found is Shawn Levy's film Ryan

41:02

Johnson's trilogy Taika

41:05

Waititi's not saying that they're dead I'm

41:07

just saying that Lucasfilm is not

41:10

giving any ink to those titles

41:12

those names those directors in any

41:14

of their official releases

41:16

obviously The

41:19

media is still covering those things

41:21

you see Taika Promoting something they

41:23

asked him about his Star Wars project that's gonna

41:26

continue to happen I would say the same thing

41:28

will continue with Ryan Johnson even though that seems

41:30

really dead in the water But he'll do another

41:33

Knives out movie and they'll ask him what's

41:36

going on with Star Wars and they'll talk about

41:38

how his schedule just hasn't matched up With others

41:40

and you know, we'll just continue down that route.

41:42

I think The

41:45

mangled film is the big question mark here

41:48

Yeah, because we've heard that

41:50

Lucasfilm has been trying to

41:52

launch a Film

41:55

about the origin of the Jedi for

41:57

a long time. Mm-hmm Stephen S

41:59

Goyer was attached to

42:02

something about the birth

42:04

of this Jedi. And then

42:06

now just recently revealed in

42:08

a new interview with Hollywood Reporter, the

42:10

Game of Thrones guys, David Benioff and

42:12

D.B. Weiss, they revealed

42:15

that their pitch to Lucasfilm, when

42:17

they were part of

42:19

the Lucasfilm machine, they said they

42:21

wanted to do a film called

42:23

The First Jedi. Basically

42:26

how the Jedi came to be, why

42:28

it came to be, the first

42:30

lightsaber, yada yada. They were,

42:32

in their own words, Weiss

42:35

says, we were annoyed

42:37

as hell when Rian Johnson called

42:39

his movie The Last Jedi. He

42:42

completely destroyed the obvious title for what

42:44

we were working on, is what

42:47

he says. But

42:50

he does mention that he's friends with Rian Johnson,

42:52

so I think that's just some friendly ribbing going

42:54

on there. Asked

42:57

about what went wrong, Benioff

42:59

says, Lucasfilm ended up not

43:02

wanting to do a First Jedi story. We

43:04

had a very specific story idea in

43:07

mind, and ultimately they decided

43:09

they didn't want to do that. And

43:11

we totally get it. It's their company and

43:13

their IP, but we weren't the droids they

43:15

were looking for. But

43:18

what I think really killed them was

43:20

there was a very harsh critical response

43:23

to the final season of Game of

43:25

Thrones that may have

43:28

given Lucasfilm cold feet. And

43:32

also what they pitched to

43:34

them ultimately was

43:38

something that they've been messing

43:40

around with already. So

43:42

they may have had some predetermined ideas

43:45

about where that story should go. The

43:47

Game of Thrones guys just weren't on board with

43:49

that. And so then they took

43:51

off and they signed a big deal with Netflix.

43:55

Even though they had an agreement with Lucasfilm. I

43:58

gotta say, at the time... I

44:00

was really puzzled by their

44:02

move to jump over to Netflix and all of that,

44:05

but when you look in and see what

44:08

happened with the the two solo

44:10

directors when you look and see what's happened with folks

44:13

like Patty Jenkins and Others

44:18

I think they made the right move. I

44:20

think they might have made the right move. I Can't

44:23

blame them. They could have seen the writing on the wall

44:27

Mm-hmm Yeah,

44:30

yeah, so the

44:33

idea of an origin of the Jedi Film

44:36

is then it's been

44:38

floating around in Lucasfilm now

44:40

how much is going to be unique

44:43

to This

44:45

new film this new this idea for

44:47

a new film to be

44:49

directed by James Mangold Who

44:53

knows are they taking

44:55

stuff that they've been developing for? The

44:58

last decade yeah for you know for

45:00

this origin of the Jedi

45:02

film is that going to be something

45:05

that? Mangold inherits or is

45:07

James gonna come in with an

45:09

entirely fresh idea and then they'll

45:11

tell him to hit the road but Hard

45:16

to say but he's mangled

45:18

is mentioned in the press release. Yes. Yeah,

45:20

so there's no reason to think that that

45:23

His movie is deal away, right? I'm sorry

45:26

Jason you you said you thought it was

45:28

but he's still in the mix

45:31

Yeah, clear. Yeah, I I'm not willing to go so

45:33

far as to say I think the movie is gonna

45:35

happen But but yes, there's

45:37

there's no doubt that they're still using

45:41

Lucasfilm Inc in their press releases to

45:43

promote that versus you know some of the

45:45

other names that have just sort of stopped

45:47

being officially

45:50

Accountant for on these on these releases so

45:52

those three films are still very much in

45:55

play John

45:57

Favreau was quoted as saying I have loved

45:59

telling stories set in the rich world

46:01

that George Lucas created, the prospect

46:03

of bringing the Mandalorian and his apprentice,

46:06

Grogu, to the big screen is

46:08

extremely exciting. You

46:12

know, the

46:14

title of the movie, as

46:16

I was saying, people

46:19

were asking me about it. I

46:24

guess you could say that it's not

46:26

terribly surprising. Jim, we were talking a

46:28

little bit off-air and

46:30

I just said, you know, there are certain

46:32

things that have been happening in Star Wars

46:34

since 2012 where I really feel that it's

46:38

been dumbed down. You know, I think

46:40

about myself as a kid, six, seven years

46:42

old, seeing Return of the Jedi and

46:44

barely able to read Jabba's subtitles and

46:51

asking my mom to read them to me or my

46:53

big brother to read them to me. But

46:55

I never got the sense that I was being

46:58

talked down to, it wasn't kitty

47:00

entertainment. But

47:03

we do live in a world where, and

47:05

this is true in a lot of different areas,

47:08

but where things

47:11

are dumbed down. So when you

47:13

look at the Mandalorian and Grogu from

47:15

a studio looking at Disney where

47:18

they released movies called The Ant-Man and the Wasp

47:22

or they released a movie called Solo and who

47:25

knows, this Rey film might just be called Rey.

47:27

We don't know or Rey Skywalker. I wouldn't be

47:29

a bit surprised if that's the

47:31

case. So, I do like the

47:35

title New Jedi Order.

47:37

Oh, I like that

47:39

too. I like that too. Yeah,

47:41

but it's not terribly surprising.

47:43

You know, George's titles were

47:46

corny. Let's

47:48

face it, Phantom Menace, Ewan

47:50

McGregor famously laughing at Attack of the

47:53

Clones when that title was announced. Even

47:55

he thought it was silly.

47:57

But corny and dumb same

48:00

thing. George was channeling those titles

48:02

that you would see on those

48:04

Saturday morning serials and that's what

48:06

really motivated him. The Phantom

48:08

Menace, Attack of the Clones, The Empire

48:11

Strikes Back, big melodramatic

48:13

titles. Pulpy. Pulpy, melodramatic

48:15

titles. What's that? Pulpy.

48:18

PULPY! Yes, pulpy.

48:21

I feel like Grogu, excuse me, the

48:23

Mandalorian in Grogu feels focus group, feels

48:25

safe, feels like committee.

48:27

What are we going to

48:30

call it? We need people. It reminds me of

48:32

this old SNL sketch where you

48:34

had Joe Piscopo with Sinatra and he's

48:36

talking to Eddie Murphy's Stevie Wonder and

48:38

he says, I want to do an

48:40

album of tunes the young people will

48:43

enjoy. I'm going to call it Frank

48:45

Does Tunes the Young People Will

48:48

Enjoy. Exactly

48:51

on the nose. It makes me

48:53

think that Iger's like, we

48:56

need people to know that this movie is

48:58

about the Mandalorian and Grogu. Let's

49:00

call it. Well,

49:03

if you really want people to know it's

49:05

about the Mandalorian and Grogu, then you should

49:07

call it the Mandalorian and Baby Yoda. If

49:10

you really want people to know, that's what

49:14

you should call it. Because

49:16

people are going to say, who the hell

49:18

is Grogu? What's a Grogu? I'm

49:20

just happy they're not giving it that

49:23

tagline, a Star Wars

49:26

story. Oh, right. I

49:29

hated that. And they attached it to

49:31

Rogue One and they attached it to

49:33

Solo. But I think that idea has

49:36

been jettisoned. It was a bad idea

49:38

from the beginning. They originally were going

49:40

to call those things Star Wars Anthology.

49:43

Yeah. But again, the

49:45

dumbing down. That's a $3 word. But,

49:49

yeah, that's a good analogy. Who's going to understand

49:51

that? Who's going to understand the Roman numerals, Jim,

49:53

because they thought that people were going to be

49:56

too confused. Yeah. You know,

49:58

the Roman numeral thing, though, does. make

50:02

it feel a little top-heavy

50:04

once you get to a certain

50:06

point. I mean look

50:08

at the Super Bowl now. Remember Super

50:10

Bowl L? Yeah right,

50:12

that was the only Super Bowl

50:15

they actually included actual numbers in

50:17

the logo because

50:19

they didn't want to call it just Super Bowl L

50:21

so they called it Super Bowl 50 and

50:23

it had said 5-0 in the

50:26

logo. That's the only time and I'm like wow

50:29

the Super Bowl is going to

50:31

get away from those Roman numerals

50:33

just like Star Wars but no

50:35

Super Bowl 51 rolled around

50:37

with an L1. Okay

50:40

here we go again but um

50:43

there's just a lot of good things

50:46

about getting this bit of the

50:48

franchise, the Mandalorian on the

50:50

silver screen. To me it makes total sense.

50:52

You have a talent like

50:54

Jon Favreau, you have a

50:57

story fleshed out if they are

51:00

going to truly adapt season four

51:02

into the next

51:04

adventure with obvious

51:06

tweaking and also

51:08

probably incorporate some leftover ideas from

51:11

the abandoned Rangers of the New

51:13

Republic show. I saw

51:15

a lot of chat online oh I

51:17

wonder if this means Gina Carano's coming

51:19

back. Guys I wouldn't I

51:22

wouldn't take two seconds of my time considering

51:25

that it's not worth the mental

51:27

energy. She's gone.

51:30

I mean she's over. She's done. She's

51:32

yesterday's news and they'll never bring back

51:34

Cara Dune but what

51:37

this film will do is

51:39

provide a bigger platform for

51:41

a guy like Pedro Pascal

51:44

who will probably appear in the

51:46

film with helmet off maybe

51:49

a little more than

51:51

what we've seen thus far in the show

51:53

and I think he'll be much more

51:56

active in the actual action

51:58

on the set and things like that. Yeah,

52:02

I do. Yeah, it is seemed like maybe

52:04

he's had a foot out the door for

52:06

the at least the last year

52:09

or so and yeah it's a

52:11

it's a voice-over role for

52:13

him at this point but with a feature

52:16

that changes things. Mm-hmm.

52:19

Mm-hmm. So yeah and and

52:21

with a feature brings in the

52:23

money you know. Yeah, right. There's the

52:25

salary for Pedro too. And I don't

52:27

think he's making chump change on The

52:29

Mandalorian as a streaming series but

52:32

as a feature film he'll make

52:34

bank. Yeah. And Lucasfilm will too

52:37

because despite all the money

52:40

they've been an effort they've put into

52:42

The Mandalorian making it a big success

52:45

I mean even we thought season three

52:47

wasn't really up to par with the

52:49

first two seasons but it has been

52:51

revealed that The Mandalorian was the top

52:54

streaming series overall in

52:56

2023. Yeah. So

52:59

there's still a lot of magic

53:01

there. Mm-hmm. And it's it's ready.

53:03

It is ready for the silver

53:05

screen and I'm really

53:08

excited at the prospect quite honestly. Yeah,

53:10

I am too. I'm very excited about

53:12

it. I was a little

53:17

less excited about the

53:20

controversy that surrounded Charmaine

53:23

obeyed Shenoy that started

53:26

around I think it was New Year's Eve is

53:28

when she was interviewed

53:31

by CNN during

53:33

some of their holiday broadcasts

53:36

there and Charmaine

53:39

you know we've known about Charmaine

53:41

since what was that? She

53:43

was Charmaine. Charmaine? Yes.

53:46

Charmaine. Oh okay Charmaine. I

53:49

call her SOC. Sock.

53:51

That's right. Sock. Okay. Some people

53:53

call her Charmaine obeyed Annoy and

53:56

we'll get into that. Actually nobody calls

53:58

her that I just Yeah,

54:03

I mean certainly somebody that

54:05

is, you

54:08

know, has a lot of

54:10

accolades to Academy Awards for

54:12

documentary short subject. So these

54:14

are 40 minute documentaries

54:17

and she's covered some serious, serious

54:21

stuff. So I think it, but

54:23

Jim, these comments that we made, that she

54:25

made, we'll get into them here, really

54:29

just hit

54:31

fandom like a nuclear bomb.

54:36

They were, there's

54:38

a combination of things going on. There's things being

54:41

taken out of context. I feel, I truly feel

54:43

being taken out of context and then there's some

54:47

silly remarks that she made. So

54:49

let's get into it and we'll take them one by one. Well,

54:53

she did appear on CNN

54:55

on New Year's Eve. It

54:58

was sort of like CNN

55:00

was presenting, you know, like New

55:03

Year's Eve around the world. Right.

55:06

And for their focus on Pakistan,

55:08

they talked to Sharmino Bayt-Shanoi, who

55:11

is Pakistani. And

55:14

she spoke

55:16

briefly about the upcoming

55:19

Ray film and then talked

55:21

about how she wants to

55:23

make filmmaking more accessible for

55:25

Pakistani women and things

55:28

like that. But these are

55:30

her first on

55:32

camera comments about

55:36

the upcoming Ray film. You know, I'm

55:38

very thrilled about the project because I think what

55:40

we are about to create is something very

55:43

special. And we're in 2024 now. And

55:47

I think it's about time that we had

55:49

a woman come forward

55:52

to shape the story in a galaxy far,

55:54

far away. Yeah.

55:57

And that was the comment that.

56:00

started to ruffle

56:02

some feathers of Star

56:04

Wars fans not that

56:07

they're creating something special but

56:09

talking about it's it's her quote

56:11

It's about time. We have a

56:13

woman shape a story in

56:16

a galaxy far far away Well,

56:18

okay, let's let's talk

56:20

about that one for a second You

56:24

know from 1977 to 2012 Star

56:29

Wars was really shaped By

56:33

one human Star

56:35

Wars was George Lucas. It

56:38

wasn't some sort of free-for-all Create

56:41

your own adventure everybody show up. It wasn't

56:43

like that. There were guards

56:46

at the gate beating women away

56:48

from contributing or Shaping

56:50

Star Wars storytelling because it belonged to

56:52

one person it belonged to George Lucas

56:55

now You could also mention names in

56:57

that arrow like Marcia Lucas,

57:00

you know the icons on Earth documentary

57:02

did a fabulous job of Shedding

57:06

some light on what a major

57:08

role Marcia did in shaping now.

57:10

This is the thing We know

57:12

what she was saying she was

57:14

really referring to directing But

57:16

she made it a broader comment and

57:19

words have meanings and she

57:21

said shaping this story

57:23

from a galaxy far far away

57:25

despite the the

57:28

shaping of Marcia Lucas

57:30

lay bracket who wrote the first screenplay

57:32

for Empire Strikes Back it

57:34

was abandoned. She passed away Tragically

57:37

Carrie Fisher a long rumor

57:39

to have doctored up some of the prequel scripts

57:42

for George Lucas, but Certainly

57:44

her contribution to Star Wars in

57:47

that initial era cannot

57:49

be Overstated

57:53

now then you

57:55

get into the post 2012 era

57:57

the era of Kathleen Kennedy

58:00

CEO of Lucasfilm talk about

58:02

shaping a galaxy far far

58:04

away and being treated

58:07

to stories. You

58:10

know, the New York Times, the women

58:12

who run the Star Wars universe, the

58:14

Washington Post, the surprising number of women

58:17

behind Lucasfilm, starwars.com,

58:19

meet the women working behind the

58:21

scenes of Star Wars, Yahoo,

58:24

expect more female-driven Star Wars

58:26

stories. This

58:29

has been something that has been at the

58:32

forefront of Lucasfilm PR

58:35

for years and years and you

58:37

think about this story

58:39

that ran 50% of

58:41

the women at

58:43

Lucasfilm, or excuse me, 50% of, what

58:46

was this, this was the story here

58:50

from the Hollywood Reporter, Lucasfilm's force Kathleen

58:52

Kennedy reveals an executive team more than

58:54

50% female. This

58:57

was back in 2016. Names

59:00

like Deborah Chow, Leslie Hedlund, Michelle

59:02

Regwan, Bryce Dallas Howard, Patty Jenkins,

59:04

Carrie Hart, Carrie Beck. This

59:07

narrative that is being furthered

59:12

by we're still trying to make up

59:14

for some wrongs of

59:16

the past that somehow, you know, women

59:19

need not apply to contribute to the

59:21

galaxy far, far away is silly,

59:24

it's divisive, and

59:26

I think Charmaine in this

59:28

case, she needs

59:30

to get a new act. You know,

59:32

this kind of thing works when you're covering women

59:36

having acid thrown in their face

59:38

in Pakistan or honor killings. Very

59:41

serious, terribly serious subject

59:43

matter that she has shined a light on

59:46

in her documentaries as well she should, and

59:48

she should be rewarded for it, and she

59:50

should be given

59:53

all kinds of accolades and

59:55

praise for doing that. But

59:57

in the year 2023 in the West... This

1:00:01

kind of attitude, I think, is just,

1:00:04

it looks dated, it looks

1:00:06

silly, and in my judgment,

1:00:08

just creates nothing but unnecessary

1:00:10

divisiveness. I

1:00:12

think timing also plays

1:00:15

a big part in this, because

1:00:20

she's not known amongst

1:00:23

American audiences. She's not

1:00:25

known amongst Hollywood consumers.

1:00:30

We don't know her, and

1:00:32

we want to know more about

1:00:35

her, because it seems kind of

1:00:37

puzzling how she went from

1:00:39

the road of activist,

1:00:41

journalist, documentarian, who

1:00:43

focuses solely on

1:00:45

Pakistani issues, how

1:00:48

she then lands a

1:00:50

gig directing a film

1:00:54

in one of the

1:00:56

biggest cinema tentpole franchises

1:00:58

in the history. It's

1:01:01

an odd career

1:01:03

path. So

1:01:07

I think the timing of

1:01:09

her statement in her very first

1:01:11

on-camera interview about Star Wars, she,

1:01:14

instead of providing us

1:01:16

with some kind of Star Wars

1:01:19

cred, she immediately

1:01:21

comes out playing identity politics

1:01:24

with a chip on her shoulder. That's

1:01:27

how it comes in. And also

1:01:29

there's context to her statements. It's

1:01:31

about time, meaning that all

1:01:33

the other Star Wars we've seen helmed by men

1:01:35

have been a

1:01:38

waste of time up until this point. That's

1:01:43

just some context that gets

1:01:45

inferred. Whether it's truthful

1:01:47

or not, it doesn't matter, because this

1:01:49

is all on face value anyway. And

1:01:52

it's created something of a PR nightmare

1:01:55

for Lucasfilm, I think, and Disney. And

1:01:57

it may have pushed the

1:01:59

announcement. The Mandalorian and Grogu film

1:02:01

to the very next

1:02:04

week as opposed to maybe

1:02:07

in next month's Disney

1:02:09

investor call or a Convention

1:02:15

later this summer like a d23 or whatever.

1:02:17

I don't know if d23 is scheduled for

1:02:19

this year But you know or

1:02:21

San Diego Comic Con where they make that

1:02:23

big splash, right? Right, of course Yeah,

1:02:26

so I think that fans just want

1:02:28

to know more about her and in

1:02:30

the very first opportunity To

1:02:33

provide Star Wars fans with some

1:02:35

insight into what makes her tick She

1:02:38

immediately brings identity politics into it

1:02:41

and that's a turnoff It's been

1:02:43

proven Audiences

1:02:45

are sick of listening to Hollywood preach to

1:02:48

us Look at the

1:02:50

ratings for award shows those things

1:02:52

used to be top money makers

1:02:54

and The ratings

1:02:56

have just slid down into the toilet

1:02:58

across the board Golden

1:03:00

Globes Academy Awards Grammys

1:03:02

Emmys because People

1:03:05

don't like hearing Hollywood preach

1:03:07

to them as if

1:03:10

we're lesser citizens or something Right and

1:03:12

so I think the Charmaine obeyed Chinoy

1:03:14

comments kind of get wrapped up in

1:03:16

that too Yeah,

1:03:18

her previous comments about Star Wars

1:03:20

happened in an Instagram tweet the

1:03:23

day She was announced as

1:03:25

director of the New

1:03:28

Jedi Order film at Star Wars celebration

1:03:30

London last April She said

1:03:32

it's been quite a day in London. The

1:03:34

news is out I'm so very

1:03:36

excited to be directing the next Star Wars

1:03:38

movie and bringing Daisy Ridley back to the

1:03:40

galaxy I've always been attracted

1:03:42

to the hero's journey and the world

1:03:44

definitely needs more heroes The

1:03:47

blueprints of the heroes we see on screen

1:03:49

are rooted in reality I've

1:03:51

spent my life meeting real-life heroes who

1:03:53

have overcome the most oppressive empires and

1:03:56

battled impossible odds and that to me

1:03:58

Is the heart of Star Wars? Which is

1:04:01

why I'm attracted to the promise

1:04:03

of a new Jedi order and

1:04:05

why I'm particularly excited about being

1:04:07

immersed inside a Jedi Academy with

1:04:09

a powerful Jedi Master. So

1:04:12

I love that. All of that.

1:04:14

That's really good stuff, you know. Heroes

1:04:17

Journey. Okay, you're speaking.

1:04:19

You're starting to speak Star Wars fans'

1:04:21

language. Right. And she made

1:04:23

those comments and they fired some people up, you know. They

1:04:25

fired a lot of people up. And

1:04:27

I knew that was going to happen the second I got

1:04:30

wind of those comments. I'm like, oh gosh, here

1:04:32

we go again. And

1:04:35

because the focus is not on

1:04:37

the film necessarily. So it

1:04:39

sent me down the rabbit hole of her career. I'm

1:04:42

like, I got to get to know this person.

1:04:44

So, and I've done this with Star Wars directors

1:04:46

in the past. I did it with Rian Johnson.

1:04:49

I watched his films before The Last Jedi.

1:04:52

Rather liked Looper, I'll be honest with you. I

1:04:55

remember you coming on the show

1:04:57

before we ever saw

1:05:00

The Last Jedi. You talking about having

1:05:02

watched Looper and you were doing a

1:05:04

deep dive into Rian Johnson. It's

1:05:06

what we do. So I

1:05:08

dove into Charmaine's career because

1:05:12

I'm more curious than anything about

1:05:14

what makes her the proper choice

1:05:17

as a director for this particular Star

1:05:19

Wars film. So

1:05:22

I dove into her career. Wow.

1:05:24

Her resume is dense. She's

1:05:26

done some big stuff. She's

1:05:29

been a player on world stages.

1:05:31

She's made presentations to the Prime

1:05:33

Minister of Pakistan. She's gone in

1:05:35

front of the UN. She's enforced

1:05:39

changes in laws

1:05:42

in Pakistan. Her

1:05:44

documentaries, you can watch them. There's two

1:05:46

of them on HBO, Max or Max

1:05:49

or whatever they call it. But you

1:05:51

could stream them. The Girl Without a

1:05:53

Face and then there's another one.

1:05:55

I forget the name of it. One

1:05:57

is about these... weird

1:06:01

thing that they do in

1:06:03

Pakistan where they throw acid

1:06:05

in women's faces to

1:06:08

disfigure them and it's

1:06:11

all about pride and these

1:06:14

honor killings where families kill their

1:06:16

own family members because they have

1:06:18

shamed the family in some way

1:06:20

shape or form and law

1:06:23

enforcement in Pakistan oftentimes and the

1:06:25

public turn their back on it

1:06:27

because it's some tradition or there's

1:06:30

some you know something it's part

1:06:32

of their head in cases yeah

1:06:34

yeah yeah you know it's barbaric

1:06:37

and it's horrifying and it

1:06:40

really makes me sick to my stomach so

1:06:42

I watched the girl

1:06:44

without a face or missing I forget the name

1:06:46

of it what was it um I

1:06:48

just have them in front of me but the

1:06:50

two but I mean the two guys stream

1:06:53

this stuff yeah and it's

1:06:56

hard hitting and it's hard to watch yeah

1:06:58

and she's done a lot to to solve

1:07:01

some inequities that go on

1:07:03

in that country some of

1:07:05

the men extreme examples

1:07:07

of brutality and oppression you can

1:07:09

imagine and and again those of

1:07:12

us living in the West it's

1:07:14

it's very hard to imagine that

1:07:18

not just let alone happening but

1:07:20

then to not be you

1:07:24

know avenged by law by anything

1:07:28

it's it's allowed in a lot of

1:07:30

cases yeah and

1:07:32

so I dug even deeper into her career because I

1:07:34

wanted to see well what makes

1:07:36

her as you know she's

1:07:38

a documentarian what makes

1:07:40

her then someone you would want to

1:07:43

helm a fictional story

1:07:46

especially a big budget one

1:07:49

and I discovered that she directed

1:07:51

in wrote a trilogy an animated

1:07:54

trilogy that was Pakistan's

1:07:57

first computer animated

1:08:00

feature called the three bahadur

1:08:02

and I believe bahadur means

1:08:04

little ones, the three little ones and

1:08:07

it's filled with this fantasy element. It's

1:08:10

these three children, they

1:08:12

acquire superpowers and they

1:08:14

fight, you know,

1:08:16

the injustices that

1:08:18

surround them and everything and

1:08:20

it has that fantasy element

1:08:24

and so I'm starting to see then, well

1:08:26

okay she's showing some chops in

1:08:28

that department and then of course

1:08:30

she came on board with Disney

1:08:32

initially with the Ms. Marvel miniseries

1:08:34

that's on Disney Plus which I

1:08:36

knew nothing about but I took

1:08:38

a look at it because

1:08:41

I was like, well I just

1:08:43

don't understand how this transition happened

1:08:46

from hard-hitting activist,

1:08:48

journalist, documentarian into

1:08:52

someone who's gonna work on basically

1:08:55

stories based on comic book

1:08:57

tales. Right. And so

1:08:59

knowing nothing about Ms. Marvel I

1:09:02

discovered that she's a Muslim superhero and

1:09:05

the cast is overwhelmingly

1:09:08

Pakistani and actors

1:09:10

from India. So I

1:09:13

was like, oh okay, well you know she

1:09:15

was hired for her ability

1:09:18

to communicate with her fellow

1:09:20

countrymen and understand

1:09:22

them on a more cultural level

1:09:24

than say, you know, a

1:09:28

random Hollywood director. Right. You

1:09:31

got me thinking, how does this path

1:09:33

lead her to Star Wars? What

1:09:37

is it about this New

1:09:39

Jedi Order film that

1:09:41

makes Charmaine obeyed Shanoi a proper

1:09:44

hire for it? And it

1:09:46

just it hit me like a bag

1:09:49

of bricks. I

1:09:51

was like, oh this must be it. Everything

1:09:54

she's done has centered around

1:09:57

Pakistani issues. Pakistani

1:10:00

people, Pakistani culture,

1:10:03

and then this Ms. Marvel film

1:10:05

was Pakistani and performers

1:10:07

from India combined,

1:10:09

you know. So I

1:10:11

started thinking, well, this new Jedi Order film is

1:10:15

probably destined to be populated

1:10:17

with a cast of largely

1:10:20

actors from Muslim countries.

1:10:24

That's what I think it is, and so she'll have the touch. That's

1:10:27

the only reason why I could think she

1:10:29

is the choice, because

1:10:31

nothing in her career indicates anything

1:10:35

otherwise. So

1:10:37

I wouldn't be surprised if it's very similar to

1:10:39

the Ms. Marvel show, where it's

1:10:42

largely Pakistani actors.

1:10:45

Middle Eastern actors that

1:10:49

might be in the

1:10:51

story from a certain system or

1:10:53

planet or something, so they're all going to have

1:10:55

a similar look,

1:10:57

vibe, whatever. Okay,

1:11:00

all right. That's my

1:11:02

speculation, because I

1:11:04

just couldn't put it together. I couldn't

1:11:07

put it together. What makes her the

1:11:09

choice? Listen, she's

1:11:11

got the hardware. She

1:11:13

has two Oscars, seven Emmys,

1:11:15

and countless numbers of humanitarian

1:11:17

awards. She's

1:11:19

a real powerful individual, I

1:11:22

think. But that

1:11:24

doesn't necessarily make her the best candidate

1:11:26

for the next Star Wars film, unless

1:11:30

of course it's going to

1:11:32

be populated largely

1:11:34

with actors from

1:11:38

Muslim countries. Middle

1:11:40

Eastern countries. Yeah, whatever you want to say. I

1:11:46

don't want to say

1:11:49

the wrong thing here, obviously. Because

1:11:53

I'm only looking for her filmmaker

1:11:55

credentials. Oh, and that's another thing.

1:11:57

Okay, I want to stand up

1:11:59

again. this because I

1:12:01

saw this argument a hundred times

1:12:04

online. She's

1:12:06

not a filmmaker. She

1:12:08

doesn't have the proper training.

1:12:11

Even she admits she didn't go

1:12:14

to film school. I

1:12:17

got news for you. That's the furthest

1:12:19

thing from a pre- requisite for a

1:12:21

great Hollywood director. Let's go through the

1:12:23

list. Here are some directors

1:12:25

who never went to film school

1:12:27

and who were never formerly trained.

1:12:29

All right, let's start with Martin

1:12:33

Scorsese, Quentin Tarantino,

1:12:36

Christopher Nolan, Guy

1:12:38

Richie, Akira

1:12:40

Kurosawa, who's not a Hollywood

1:12:43

director but still a director

1:12:45

of great reputation, Steven

1:12:48

freaking Spielberg, Alfred

1:12:51

Hitchcock. So

1:12:53

don't tell me that somebody needs to go

1:12:55

to film school to be able to direct

1:12:57

a Star Wars film. That's

1:13:00

not a prerequisite for great

1:13:02

filmmaking. That's just me scratching

1:13:04

the surface of the list. Yeah,

1:13:07

the whole formal education thing.

1:13:10

Jim, how many people have you worked with

1:13:12

in the past that have brandished their

1:13:16

degrees in broadcast journalism and

1:13:18

they couldn't talk

1:13:21

or entertain or broadcast their

1:13:23

way out of a paper bag. I've seen the

1:13:25

same thing happen in marketing and PR and things

1:13:27

like that. So yeah, you're not

1:13:29

gonna cut any ice with me just flashing

1:13:32

your degree. I think

1:13:35

what you did is you went on a

1:13:37

very logical

1:13:39

path in trying to connect the

1:13:41

dots of how do you take

1:13:44

this person. Now, is she

1:13:46

a feminist activist? Yes, she

1:13:48

absolutely is. She's self-admitted. She's

1:13:51

covered some of the, like I said, the

1:13:53

most extreme conditions of oppression

1:13:56

That people in the West can't

1:13:58

even conceive, really. I'm.

1:14:01

That. The other thing that I think that's

1:14:03

interesting though. You talked

1:14:05

about in of the middle eastern countries and

1:14:07

and in the started making be think about.

1:14:10

The. Way Americans look at things versus the

1:14:12

way others look at things. And in

1:14:14

America, Dot. Unlike

1:14:17

I think a lot of other countries

1:14:19

or even and it in in Europe

1:14:21

politics. And. This is

1:14:23

very very true, especially over at I'd

1:14:25

say the last ten years. On

1:14:28

Politics has become session. You

1:14:31

know it It went from being boring

1:14:33

stodgy stuff to kind of entertainment. We

1:14:35

got a lot does this Sunday morning

1:14:37

news shows and people watched it and

1:14:40

it it became almost as a as

1:14:42

a circus but now it's fashion and

1:14:44

people adorned themselves. Like. Like

1:14:46

like trendy closing in in

1:14:49

in trending idea, trendy ideology,

1:14:51

and. So.

1:14:54

I think that. What? Is

1:14:57

troubling for a lot of people is

1:14:59

is that in what they're really growing

1:15:01

tired of is this idea of. Politics.

1:15:05

As. As fashion and.

1:15:09

So that's what this kind of struck

1:15:11

me as. and it's as much an

1:15:13

indictment. On. The way.

1:15:16

Media spins things more so

1:15:18

than the words of the

1:15:20

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy. It's because

1:15:23

we know why the press

1:15:25

grabs on the certain quotes

1:15:27

because they really want to

1:15:29

play up these angles that

1:15:32

we. At the culture

1:15:34

war angles as that we're dealing

1:15:36

with, particularly in the United States,

1:15:39

So. I.

1:15:42

Yes, I do think that her

1:15:44

comment was sloppy. About.

1:15:47

Star. Wars been shaped by a woman,

1:15:49

I would have much rather heard her talk

1:15:51

about things like. Was

1:15:55

she think of George Lucas and

1:15:57

George Lucas's creation? and I'm. you

1:15:59

know George famously pioneered

1:16:04

action movies in a documentary style.

1:16:06

Maybe you could make a connection

1:16:08

there and talk about how you were

1:16:10

drawn to, you know, George's iconic

1:16:13

style in those original films. There's a

1:16:16

lot of different directions that she could

1:16:18

have taken, but like people

1:16:20

that are dripping with the, the, the

1:16:22

fashion of their politics and their social

1:16:26

ideologies, she led with that. Now that

1:16:28

interview was obviously edited. There were, there

1:16:30

could have been other things that she

1:16:33

might've said, but CNN's going to

1:16:35

grab what they think is going to get

1:16:37

people clicking and boy, did this. Really?

1:16:40

It was not a live, it was

1:16:42

not a live interview. Correct. It was

1:16:44

part of their package, their, you know,

1:16:47

New Year's Eve around the world. Something.

1:16:49

Right. Um, you

1:16:52

know, she's a very interesting individual, but

1:16:55

is she the right person for

1:16:57

Star Wars beyond

1:17:00

wearing her political opinions

1:17:02

as a fashion statement?

1:17:06

Um, I mean, she's talking about

1:17:08

life or death for these Pakistani women

1:17:10

in that case, yes. And

1:17:12

so it's, it's, it's way

1:17:14

beyond, you know, this is

1:17:16

a case of, of fighting for survival

1:17:19

in a country that the

1:17:22

odds are really stacked up against women.

1:17:24

In a lot of these countries, especially

1:17:27

in Pakistan, especially. And

1:17:29

she's had the fight. She's

1:17:31

a fight. For

1:18:00

the better part of the first five

1:18:02

decades of its existence Now

1:18:05

I'm not saying it's exclusive the boys and

1:18:07

we've had this conversation before my god, right?

1:18:09

Right, you know Star Wars definitely is for

1:18:12

everyone. I mean, why wouldn't it be I

1:18:14

always say it's not a

1:18:16

boy franchise It's a family franchise

1:18:19

So it shouldn't like really

1:18:22

lean Too heavy

1:18:24

in any direction other than telling

1:18:26

a good story and it's escapism,

1:18:28

too so You

1:18:32

worry about something that everyone has

1:18:35

looked at for escapist

1:18:39

Entertainment to then become

1:18:41

so heavy-handed. It's not fun

1:18:44

anymore Yeah, you

1:18:46

know that does happen to Franchises

1:18:48

that were formerly fun. Yes, but

1:18:50

all of this is to say

1:18:52

that at the end of the day, we

1:18:54

don't know What kind

1:18:56

of movie she's gonna make she might make one of

1:18:58

the greatest Star Wars movies ever So

1:19:02

there's a lot of people jumping

1:19:04

to conclusions and I understand why they're

1:19:06

jumping to these conclusions Because

1:19:09

what we're being presented with leads

1:19:12

you to Leads

1:19:16

you to that conclusion we know that

1:19:18

there's a A

1:19:22

Certain narrative and there's

1:19:25

a certain ideological

1:19:28

bend that is very very fashionable and

1:19:30

very trendy these days and as you

1:19:32

say a lot of even

1:19:34

big franchises have sort of fallen

1:19:37

into that into that trap But

1:19:39

I'm willing to give anybody and any

1:19:42

Star Wars movie or television show a

1:19:44

fair shot As long as it's not

1:19:46

a novel, I'll give it a fair

1:19:49

shot so By

1:19:51

the way, I got those I got those

1:19:53

titles Saving face was her 2012. I watched

1:19:56

it and I want a girl in the river Was

1:20:00

twenty Fi watched it. Yeah, Yeah.

1:20:02

Disturbing. To. Say the

1:20:04

least. Arab and the hard to

1:20:07

watch is because. You

1:20:10

know of the the scarring

1:20:13

in do Disfigure Asian it's

1:20:15

horrible really there While Sharmeen

1:20:17

Macys statements on Cnn. There

1:20:20

were not as statements that yeah

1:20:23

he does came back to lie

1:20:25

or she makes her big splash.

1:20:27

By. Giving her first sign camera

1:20:30

interview where she's talking about Star

1:20:32

Wars and she uses it. Instead

1:20:35

of taught like to think about how

1:20:37

we were introduced. A day for Loney,

1:20:39

it's Star Wars Celebration or two Thousand

1:20:42

and seven. We were introduced

1:20:44

to this guy. We did know who he

1:20:46

was and what is. See talk about. Cars.

1:20:49

Planes Plo Koon A selection of

1:20:52

yeah things that he's learned

1:20:54

from George Lucas. Ways

1:20:56

Star Wars his shaped his career.

1:21:00

This. Immediately and dear to us of

1:21:02

Bologna. And he's A. He's east

1:21:04

and of a diamond in the rough you

1:21:06

know. What I look

1:21:08

back at: the history of Star Wars. George

1:21:11

Lucas hired Irvin Kershner to direct

1:21:14

the sequel and. Imagine

1:21:17

if the internet was around back then. Are

1:21:19

you hot as progress? or? But. While

1:21:22

here's a guy, you know the guy

1:21:25

who directed the eyes of Laura Mars

1:21:27

is gonna direct Star Wars as makes

1:21:29

no sense for and it didn't But

1:21:31

George knew what he was doing because

1:21:34

he knew Irvin Kershner and was inspired

1:21:36

by Kirschner during his time at U

1:21:38

S C site. But at that point

1:21:41

Star Wars was developed by twenty year

1:21:43

olds and guys and or early to

1:21:45

mid thirties and and also you bringing

1:21:47

Kirschner a guy in his mid fifties,

1:21:50

it just everything seemed against. Him.

1:21:53

Being in the director seeds for Empire

1:21:55

Strikes Back and then returned the Jet

1:21:57

I Richard Mark One my god what

1:21:59

he direct. Have made for

1:22:01

Tv movie about the Beatles early

1:22:03

years assuming that's really about it

1:22:06

then for as we've said all

1:22:08

though that that George was firmly

1:22:11

in control. Yeah, yeah of

1:22:13

both of those are both

1:22:15

of those films that empire

1:22:17

not so much Empire George

1:22:19

to. That's why he hired

1:22:21

Mark Wand as a tool

1:22:23

because George wanted to regain

1:22:25

control. The reason Gary Curse

1:22:27

got fired from Star Wars

1:22:29

is because he could A

1:22:31

real curse in. And

1:22:33

Curse Blue what taunted George's money

1:22:36

with expanded suits on sets that

1:22:38

were scheduled to be torn down

1:22:40

two weeks ago and that yeah,

1:22:42

yes of but but what? That

1:22:45

costs a lot of money. And

1:22:47

that's why Kurtz losses gig primarily.

1:22:50

But. As far as shaping the story in

1:22:52

of this the story was shaped by George

1:22:54

and they were going to or changes in

1:22:56

all those who are a few moments that

1:22:59

you know George was not happy about the

1:23:01

i love you I Know exchange. Move

1:23:03

on. But. So when you

1:23:05

look at it. As so see.

1:23:08

You. You have to ask yourself

1:23:10

how much. As. A director see

1:23:13

shaping the story you know day for alone.

1:23:15

He now has a much. Elevated

1:23:17

position at Lucasfilm and days could

1:23:20

be really shaping the story of

1:23:22

this re films and are so

1:23:24

his date you know if in

1:23:27

and I I do trust Dave

1:23:29

when it comes to keeping the

1:23:32

integrity of the of Star Wars

1:23:34

storytelling. so. It. Very well

1:23:36

could be the case that Charmaine

1:23:38

or Sharmeen is going to be

1:23:40

directing a film. That

1:23:42

has a story. That. Is

1:23:45

been meticulously. Overseen.

1:23:48

By. A Guy Like Day

1:23:50

for Loney and and and Others.

1:23:52

So it doesn't necessarily mean that

1:23:54

you know this is her movie

1:23:57

and it's her version of Star

1:23:59

Wars. Yeah, the director certainly can

1:24:01

play a big role, but they.

1:24:04

As you pointed out with Richard Mark want

1:24:06

they don't always have to put their their

1:24:08

stamp on it either. When.

1:24:11

I boy they bark one is a certain

1:24:13

fingerprints all over her. Return of the jet

1:24:16

are you know I said he was just

1:24:18

a tool but I had a good deal

1:24:20

more than also. keep in mind of the

1:24:22

film is been written by Stephen Night right?

1:24:25

So I mean she's not writing the settlements

1:24:27

use a writer right? Oh she's not writing

1:24:29

the film. I'm. And and yeah

1:24:32

I given night settler blinders guy right?

1:24:34

That's. The yeah He Binders got ya.

1:24:36

That picky Blinders Humming Bird dirty

1:24:38

pretty things in those show called

1:24:40

Lock for a film called like

1:24:42

I'm not sure I'm there's a

1:24:44

lot of voices at the table

1:24:46

here. Bites. As director,

1:24:49

she does have quite a bit

1:24:51

of var autonomy when it comes

1:24:53

to how it all gets captured

1:24:56

on the since I'm the about

1:24:58

kind. Of female stepped

1:25:00

in to tell a Star Wars

1:25:03

story is a little inaccurate because

1:25:05

we all know that Patty Jenkins

1:25:07

was hired was a direct. Rogue.

1:25:10

Squadron and spent the better

1:25:12

part of two years developing

1:25:15

bad stories and it all

1:25:17

fell apart I think partially

1:25:19

due to Lucas Films dysfunction

1:25:21

and partially due to Patty

1:25:23

Jenkins. Attitude which we've

1:25:25

come to learn that she might

1:25:27

not be the easiest person in

1:25:30

Hollywood to work with. that's just,

1:25:32

you know, hearsay stuff. but that's

1:25:34

what we've heard from certain Hollywood

1:25:37

people and I'm so the zoo

1:25:39

the Rogue Squadron still might see.

1:25:42

A. New lives down the road. But

1:25:46

saw for now it's totally on ice.

1:25:48

But Patty Jenkins was hired to be

1:25:50

the first director of Us. Star Wars

1:25:53

Film and valleys out of the first

1:25:55

female director of a Star Wars film.

1:25:58

yep yep and active Debra

1:26:00

Chow was the showrunner for the Kenobi

1:26:03

series and Bryce Dallas

1:26:05

Howard and Steph Green

1:26:07

and there's been a lot

1:26:09

of women directors who

1:26:12

have cut their teeth on Star Wars

1:26:14

already and have been

1:26:16

for the last few years during

1:26:18

the streaming era. Leslie Hedlund, she's

1:26:21

showrunning acolyte. Right so

1:26:23

it's just a little puzzling why

1:26:26

those talents

1:26:29

weren't called upon to

1:26:32

step up and direct the

1:26:34

Rey film. If you truly wanted to

1:26:36

have a female perspective

1:26:38

on the entire production

1:26:41

coming from the directors chair. See

1:26:43

that's why I think it's more than just a

1:26:47

female touch. It

1:26:49

comes down to her heritage and

1:26:52

her background is a Pakistani woman. I

1:26:55

think that's coming more into play because she's

1:26:57

gonna be working with a

1:27:00

Pakistani cast. Well

1:27:03

maybe they're filming it there. It's

1:27:05

possible they film some of

1:27:08

Ms. Marvel was shot in

1:27:11

India whether that was done virtually

1:27:13

or not. I'm not a hundred percent sure. I'm

1:27:16

really not schooled on Ms.

1:27:18

Marvel and it was only last

1:27:21

night when I discovered that Ms.

1:27:23

Marvel was a Muslim

1:27:25

superhero so it all started to

1:27:27

fall into place for me. That's

1:27:31

what led me to believe that

1:27:33

we'll see a predominantly Middle Eastern

1:27:35

cast in the Rey film and

1:27:39

that's the particular skill

1:27:41

set that Charmaine

1:27:43

O'Baid-Shanoi is going to be bringing to the

1:27:45

production because all the

1:27:48

other paths don't lead they don't lead to Star

1:27:50

Wars. I'll tell you that right now. When you're

1:27:53

talking about Ms. Marvel are you talking about Brie

1:27:55

Larson? No no no no that's

1:27:57

Captain Marvel. Oh yeah.

1:28:00

in Marvel versus me. Yeah it's

1:28:02

kind of confusing but Ms. Marvel

1:28:04

she was featured in the Marvel's

1:28:07

flop film feature from flop

1:28:10

and a lot of people said that the

1:28:13

character known as Kamala Khan she's

1:28:15

Ms. Marvel and a lot

1:28:17

of people really thought she was the standout

1:28:20

of that particular film The Marvels which I of

1:28:22

course have not seen. So

1:28:25

that's what I'm assuming is that she's gonna

1:28:27

be working with largely a Middle Eastern cast.

1:28:30

So she made these comments on CNN

1:28:33

and it immediately hit

1:28:35

the nerve of a lot of

1:28:38

people online and then a youtuber went

1:28:40

digging into a lot

1:28:43

of interviews that Charmaine has done over

1:28:45

the years and she found this Women

1:28:48

of the World Summit from

1:28:50

2015 long before

1:28:54

Charmaine O'Baid-Shanoi was attached to Lucasfilm

1:28:56

or Star Wars or even Disney

1:28:58

and Marvel for that matter. She's

1:29:01

you know firmly working in the

1:29:04

activist field as a

1:29:06

documentarian, as a journalist and

1:29:08

fighting for change in her home country

1:29:10

of Pakistan. Outside of that

1:29:13

she did do that three Bahadur animated

1:29:16

trilogy which is

1:29:18

you know based in fantasy

1:29:20

a fantasy world with

1:29:23

your superpowers and all this stuff. I

1:29:25

took some glimpses of that you can

1:29:27

see some of that on YouTube. That

1:29:30

one's not so easy to stream but

1:29:33

it turned out that that was

1:29:35

the top grossing animated feature ever

1:29:37

produced out of Pakistan in Pakistan

1:29:40

you know it was only screen there. I

1:29:42

know it's not seen any airplay here really.

1:29:46

It looks kind of cool the animation is kind of

1:29:48

cool but that's the only

1:29:51

like fantasy element to

1:29:53

her resume. She's

1:29:55

really more steeped in the activist

1:29:58

field and she was was

1:30:00

called upon to sit

1:30:02

in on this interview conducted

1:30:05

by John Stewart with Eva

1:30:08

DuVernay and

1:30:10

Meryl Streep and Charmaine.

1:30:13

So they're all up on stage. This is in

1:30:15

New York and John Stewart

1:30:17

is moderating the conversation. John

1:30:19

Stewart, I mean, he moderated

1:30:22

the chat. He got a panic loop after

1:30:24

him in Star Wars. Where

1:30:26

Obi-Wan Kenobi is from. He

1:30:29

hosted the main event at Star Wars Celebration

1:30:31

2010 in Orlando and we were

1:30:34

there. So

1:30:40

here's this clip that everyone's so upset

1:30:42

about where she says that she

1:30:45

enjoys making men

1:30:48

uncomfortable. And this

1:30:50

is a kind of a long clip so I

1:30:52

want you guys to bear with it because

1:30:55

she does talk about like things

1:30:57

like social media and

1:30:59

how she's received a

1:31:01

lot of heat for

1:31:04

her stances on

1:31:06

things politically and fighting for

1:31:09

gender inequality in Pakistan. You

1:31:12

can't debate. You

1:31:14

can't debate there's gender

1:31:16

inequality in Pakistan. The

1:31:18

country that still arranges

1:31:20

marriages and honor

1:31:23

killings and all this stuff. I mean

1:31:25

there are parts of their culture that

1:31:27

is so barbaric and

1:31:29

so out of step with

1:31:32

modern society that it

1:31:34

makes me want to puke quite honestly. It

1:31:37

makes me uncomfortable. It most certainly does.

1:31:39

As a man it makes me

1:31:42

really uncomfortable. This is

1:31:45

more than just her

1:31:47

comments taken out of

1:31:50

context. This is all within context

1:31:52

from John Stewart's question following

1:31:54

all the way to the end of her answer.

1:31:57

So like I said I just want you guys to

1:31:59

be patient but I don't think the

1:32:01

internet is necessarily putting this stuff

1:32:03

in the context. I've seen so

1:32:05

many times the comments she made

1:32:07

on CNN last week with

1:32:10

these comments right next to them as

1:32:13

if she said it all at once.

1:32:15

Right. So, very dishonest.

1:32:17

So let's, let's, let's hear this

1:32:20

unedited in context and

1:32:22

understand that she just released

1:32:26

the documentary about

1:32:29

women having acid thrown in their faces

1:32:31

in Pakistan.

1:32:34

You talked a little bit about, I want

1:32:36

women to watch this and I want them

1:32:39

to feel empowered and I want my daughter

1:32:41

to have heroes. I

1:32:44

couldn't help but notice a thread through each of

1:32:46

these, that the men were

1:32:50

assholes. And

1:32:54

I'm wondering, as

1:33:02

one of them, speak

1:33:07

for you. What is the balance of activating

1:33:09

a force for change,

1:33:13

but also trying

1:33:15

to permeate

1:33:18

that patriarchy, that power structure? And

1:33:20

is that a part of the

1:33:22

calculation of your art as

1:33:24

well? And what's been the reaction to that?

1:33:27

Oh, absolutely. I

1:33:30

like to make men

1:33:32

uncomfortable. I enjoy making

1:33:34

men uncomfortable. Not

1:33:39

you. Point

1:33:42

taken. Point taken. But,

1:33:45

you know, it is

1:33:47

important to be able to look into the

1:33:49

eyes of a man and say, I am

1:33:52

here and recognize that

1:33:54

and recognize that I am

1:33:56

working to bring something that

1:33:58

makes you uncomfortable. should make

1:34:00

you uncomfortable because you need to change

1:34:02

your attitude. And it's only when you're

1:34:05

uncomfortable, when you're shifty, when you have

1:34:07

to have difficult conversations, that

1:34:09

you will perhaps look at yourself in

1:34:11

the mirror and not like the reflection.

1:34:13

And then say, maybe there is something

1:34:15

wrong with the way I think, or

1:34:17

maybe there is something wrong with the

1:34:19

way I am addressing

1:34:21

this issue. So I'll tell you,

1:34:25

last year I began working on

1:34:27

a television show

1:34:29

that brought stories

1:34:31

like this in Pakistan. And

1:34:34

men were uncomfortable with some of the

1:34:37

issues that we were talking about. Extremely

1:34:39

uncomfortable. But they

1:34:41

started having those difficult conversations.

1:34:43

And I think that if more

1:34:46

men and women started doing that,

1:34:49

looking in the

1:34:51

eyes of people and saying, well, this

1:34:53

is the reality. Accept it. I

1:34:55

come from a country which sometimes thinks

1:34:57

that I'm a traitor because I

1:34:59

talk about issues that shouldn't be talked

1:35:02

about. That these are the issues that

1:35:04

should be swept under the carpet. So

1:35:06

you will see a lot of rants

1:35:08

about me on social media. And that

1:35:11

is part and parcel of who I

1:35:13

am. And sometimes that used to bother

1:35:15

me. But one day I realized

1:35:19

that it should be my strength, not my weakness.

1:35:21

And the reason it should be my strength because

1:35:24

obviously I am making someone

1:35:26

very uncomfortable. And it's only

1:35:28

when you make someone uncomfortable that they're

1:35:30

forced to tweet about you. So

1:35:35

I think that's important. And

1:35:37

I now

1:35:40

put all the naysayers to one side because I

1:35:42

know I have a mission. And I know what

1:35:45

I want to do. And those voices, their

1:35:48

volume just needs to be torn down. Yeah,

1:35:52

I appreciate being

1:35:55

able to see and hear the entire

1:35:58

quote. The entire, it's not even. more

1:36:00

than a quote, the whole exchange

1:36:03

between John Stewart, his entire question,

1:36:05

her entire answer. It

1:36:08

does a lot. Context is key to

1:36:11

things like this. When she's talking about

1:36:13

making men uncomfortable, I don't

1:36:16

think she's talking about you, the

1:36:18

guy that's driving to work right

1:36:20

now, listening to this podcast. I

1:36:22

don't think that was really the

1:36:24

context. She's talking about in

1:36:27

her particular country and in that

1:36:29

region of the world where these

1:36:31

things that we were talking about earlier

1:36:33

that are documented in her films

1:36:37

are tolerated, tolerated,

1:36:39

encouraged, etc. You

1:36:42

notice also later she clarifies and

1:36:44

says that men and women need

1:36:46

to be made to feel uncomfortable

1:36:48

because when you feel uncomfortable, that

1:36:51

is when it comes to social change or any kind

1:36:53

of change. Think about

1:36:55

becoming a parent for the first time.

1:36:57

Talk about uncomfortable and then of

1:36:59

course you change and you learn to lead

1:37:01

a more unselfish life because you have these

1:37:03

children. I

1:37:07

don't see this

1:37:10

quote in particular being

1:37:12

anti-male in general. She says to

1:37:14

John Stewart, I'm not talking about you,

1:37:17

John. I think she's talking about the

1:37:19

people that in her country are calling

1:37:21

her a traitor because she is bringing

1:37:23

to the forefront these things that are

1:37:26

sort of shrouded in tradition but at

1:37:28

the heart are really barbaric,

1:37:31

terrible practices. In

1:37:36

this instance, I think the

1:37:38

vitriol that's being spewed at her as

1:37:40

a result of this quote is

1:37:43

really unnecessary. Well,

1:37:45

to dig that up and then try to

1:37:48

connect it to her comments about, it's

1:37:50

about time a female

1:37:53

director took over a Star

1:37:55

Wars film. They're two vastly

1:37:57

different things because she goes on to say.

1:38:00

I produced the TV show last year.

1:38:02

I researched this in 2014. Charmaine

1:38:05

O'Baid-Shanoi. Oh, her company's called SoC

1:38:08

Films. There you go. She's on

1:38:10

board with the old SoC. And

1:38:13

Charmaine O'Baid-Shanoi released Aghez

1:38:15

E. Safar, a

1:38:18

12-episode series for Aj News,

1:38:20

which tackled issues affecting ordinary

1:38:23

Pakistanis across the country, including

1:38:25

child abuse, domestic violence, issues

1:38:28

of gun violence, water scarcity,

1:38:30

land grabbing, etc. Dealing

1:38:34

with some real barbaric issues

1:38:36

there where people's right to live

1:38:38

is, every

1:38:41

right they have is being stripped away from

1:38:43

them. Yeah. I don't think that

1:38:45

applies to a Joe Lunchbox

1:38:47

Star Wars fan who, you

1:38:51

know, has a collection of action figures.

1:38:54

I don't think we need to feel

1:38:56

threatened about it because within the context,

1:38:58

that's what she's talking about. So if

1:39:00

you're listening to the show or guilty

1:39:02

of child abuse, domestic violence, issues of

1:39:05

gun violence, water scarcity, land grabbing, then

1:39:07

look in the mirror, pal. Right. But

1:39:10

the fear is, is how is her

1:39:12

just like general approach?

1:39:15

Like I said, maybe she sees

1:39:17

everything through a spectrum. How

1:39:20

is that going to apply to Star Wars? Is

1:39:23

that the proper platform in which

1:39:25

to be addressing some

1:39:27

of these issues? In the first place,

1:39:29

George Lucas created Star Wars as a

1:39:32

way to bring back friendly family

1:39:37

fare for young people in the seventies

1:39:40

because there was a void of that.

1:39:43

I mean, you know, outside of

1:39:45

cartoons, right? Right. You know, kids

1:39:48

did not get, we did not have

1:39:50

good entertainment. Herbie, the love bug, give

1:39:52

me a break. It was so dumb

1:39:54

down and goofy. Right. And when

1:39:56

Star Wars came along, it was like, wow.

1:42:00

So you don't want that to be your

1:42:02

big splash. Unfortunately

1:42:04

it is. And that makes

1:42:06

people fear that, well, she sees everything

1:42:08

through that spectrum. So

1:42:10

what makes her the right choice

1:42:12

to guide Star Wars into the

1:42:15

future? It's hard to

1:42:17

figure out. The only thing I could think of is

1:42:19

that she's going to be working with

1:42:21

primarily a Middle Eastern cast. And

1:42:23

that's what makes her maybe

1:42:26

the right person to deal with that sort of

1:42:28

thing. It's

1:42:30

like exhausting, you know? Well, it

1:42:32

becomes... The

1:42:35

culture wars and that

1:42:38

whole idea that has

1:42:41

really impacted entertainment,

1:42:44

in particular, even

1:42:46

sports to some degree over the last seven,

1:42:48

eight years, it's

1:42:51

become so tedious. And I really do think that

1:42:53

people are getting tired of it. I

1:42:56

do think we're going to look back at

1:42:58

some of the films, some of the entertainment

1:43:00

that has been produced during this era, and

1:43:04

cringe in the same way we do looking back at

1:43:06

some of the... Think of some

1:43:08

of the things that look real dated now. I'm

1:43:11

thinking about Blaxploitation films. I'm thinking

1:43:14

about... In

1:43:17

the same way that George wanted to avoid fashion,

1:43:20

i.e. Civil

1:43:24

clothing and the costuming in the Star Wars

1:43:26

films, we should also be

1:43:28

looking to avoid political

1:43:31

and social fashion. And

1:43:34

that's why Star Wars has remained so

1:43:36

timeless, because it did specifically avoid those

1:43:38

things, and tell stories

1:43:40

that everyone could relate

1:43:43

to. A primal kind

1:43:45

of story about humanity

1:43:47

and yearning for

1:43:50

something bigger, better, and yeah.

1:43:52

Yeah. Destroying

1:43:55

your Death Star. Well, I

1:43:57

think she's certainly seen... lot

1:44:00

of humanity at its worst? Yes.

1:44:03

And so

1:44:05

like how, you know, it's gonna be very

1:44:07

interesting to see how that translates in the Star

1:44:10

Wars. And it could really, with that

1:44:13

sort of mojo behind it, we could be

1:44:15

treated to an antagonist

1:44:17

in these films. That's

1:44:20

gonna be the most evil of all evil,

1:44:22

you know? I mean, we haven't even scratched

1:44:24

the surface of evil. If

1:44:27

she wants to include some

1:44:29

of these inequalities she has

1:44:31

noticed as a Pakistani woman,

1:44:33

that could, you know, that

1:44:35

could come into the stew

1:44:37

of creating the most evil

1:44:39

film character of all time.

1:44:41

Move over Darth Vader. Right?

1:44:45

Someone we can all unite against

1:44:47

and root for

1:44:49

the protagonist, Rey and

1:44:52

her supporting cast. You

1:44:54

know, I've been thinking about that too. How

1:44:57

much in the forefront of this film

1:44:59

will Rey actually be? Or

1:45:02

will she take more of like an

1:45:05

Ali Guinness in the original

1:45:07

trilogy role or a Mark Hamill in

1:45:09

the sequel trilogy role as

1:45:11

somebody who's just sort of like, you

1:45:14

know, the spiritual advisor or something.

1:45:16

Right, right, right. Will

1:45:18

we be dealing with a brand new

1:45:21

big three? I mean, I

1:45:23

think that, I think, personally,

1:45:25

I think you'd have to

1:45:27

put Rey at the forefront of anything

1:45:29

that happens in these films. And everyone

1:45:31

around her is a supporting. My

1:45:34

issue with the Rey film

1:45:37

is just

1:45:39

that I don't think that it's, frankly,

1:45:42

I don't think it's the right time. I

1:45:44

don't think enough time has elapsed. I don't

1:45:46

think that the nostalgia

1:45:49

bug for the

1:45:51

sequel trilogy characters and

1:45:53

era is there yet.

1:45:56

I mean, we're just now, we're

1:45:59

at the point where the nostalgia tugs

1:46:01

are coming for things like the Clone

1:46:03

Wars. We saw it happen with

1:46:06

the prequel trilogy and

1:46:08

now we're seeing it with series. Well,

1:46:11

yes, the Ahsoka series because of the

1:46:13

nostalgia tug that's happening through from

1:46:15

the Clone Wars. Yeah, absolutely. I

1:46:17

just, I have no doubt, despite

1:46:21

my differences with those movies, the

1:46:23

sequel trilogy, particularly 8

1:46:25

and 9, I have no doubt that there is

1:46:27

going to be a time when

1:46:29

those films are going to be looked

1:46:32

upon with a lot of fondness

1:46:34

and great

1:46:37

memories and all of that from a

1:46:40

generation of kids that

1:46:42

have grown up. I have no doubt about that.

1:46:44

I just think it's too soon and I

1:46:47

worry that that whole

1:46:50

era is still a little tainted and I

1:46:58

would push that out further. I would make that my

1:47:00

2027 movie. I wouldn't be making

1:47:03

that my 2026 film. Keep

1:47:06

going. Let's see, what do we got? 2015 to

1:47:08

2027? Okay,

1:47:12

that's 12 years. You know, it's

1:47:15

getting there. I think it's more

1:47:18

of like a 20-year itch. That's where I think

1:47:20

the sweet spot is for

1:47:23

getting that nostalgia. Yeah, but I mean

1:47:26

we're dealing with a Lucasfilm who is

1:47:28

aware of the issues

1:47:32

with the sequel trilogy and I

1:47:35

think they're really very anxious to

1:47:37

try to

1:47:39

course-correct all of that stuff

1:47:43

because they were so righteous about it all when

1:47:45

it was going down in the first place and

1:47:48

it kind of landed with a thud by

1:47:51

the time Rise of