0:02

The Old

0:13

Arnold Estate. Due to its truly

0:15

haunting nature, it has become the starting

0:17

point to an entire film universe. They

0:20

say the Conjuring is based on a true

0:22

story, but what is that true story? Today

0:25

we dive into the ghostly history of

0:27

The Conjuring House. This

0:29

is Red Web. Welcome

0:38

back Task Force to another episode of

0:40

Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved

0:43

mysteries, true crime, the supernatural. I'm

0:45

losing it because I'm talking about The

0:47

Conjuring House today. I am your resident

0:50

mystery enthusiast, ghost extraordinaire, host

0:52

with the ghost Trevor Collins. That's

0:54

a new, I'm just trying new things here at the end.

0:58

No better time to try something new than

1:01

at the end. And joining me, hearing about

1:03

this topic, definitely not for the first time,

1:05

but maybe the true story for the first

1:07

time, Alfredo Diaz. The

1:10

Conjuring series. It's

1:13

got some bangers in it. It's got some

1:15

ups and some downs. It definitely has some

1:17

downs. The

1:20

first two, they're pretty solid. They're

1:24

terrifying movies and it's spanning a whole

1:26

universe. So

1:30

getting into, I'm assuming, and

1:32

Lorraine Warren. The

1:34

Warrens. Yeah, the Warrens. Yeah,

1:37

I'm excited. This is

1:39

not what I pictured. I know we

1:41

talked about, you know, possible, like visiting the house

1:43

and all that kind of stuff. And we've

1:45

been talking about that for a long time. So I guess I

1:47

just created this image in my

1:50

head. And so this looks nothing

1:52

like it. This looks

1:54

so secluded. And then

1:56

also, you know, the films kind of like add to

1:58

it. Right. for one of

2:00

it pictured, but this looks

2:03

like we could explore this in

2:06

five minutes. Right, it doesn't look

2:08

nearly as big and fancy as the

2:10

movie is, but it is

2:12

a historic, they call it an

2:14

estate, it looks a little bit like a log cabin on

2:17

about eight acres of land. It

2:19

is definitely spooky looking, when you

2:21

look at it going, this

2:23

is secluded, anything could happen. So what is the

2:26

current state and ownership of the place? Oh, we'll

2:28

get into all of that. Oh, okay, perfect. But

2:30

I'll jump the gun a little bit. It is

2:32

now run currently as like a hotel. Kind

2:36

of like a B&B sort of situation. And

2:38

that's of like recent years. But

2:40

we'll talk about the change in ownership, the history

2:42

of this house and everything. But as I joked

2:44

about at the top, and now I wanna talk

2:46

about, now that it's been a minute since our

2:49

podcast update, Red Web is

2:51

under the Rooster Teeth umbrella, and we have been

2:53

informed that Rooster Teeth is being

2:56

shut down. And because of that,

2:58

that has put some interesting questions

3:00

into the air for Red Web, but

3:02

we have at least one fact, we

3:04

want to continue. We want to do

3:06

this show moving forward. We don't know

3:08

if it can be called Red Web.

3:11

There are legalities and things that we are looking

3:13

into and trying to figure things out. But

3:15

we do know we wanna do something. And if you follow

3:18

us anywhere, whether it's our personals or on

3:20

Red Web, we'll make sure to let you know where

3:22

to find us in the future. We're gonna

3:25

run this podcast out till April 22nd is

3:27

our final episode. And then we're

3:29

probably gonna have a few weeks off as

3:31

we figure things out, finalize things, and then

3:34

make a big splash to try to tell

3:36

you where to go, how to support us

3:38

and where we will be, if not in

3:40

the same home. So just wanted to put

3:42

that out there, still again figuring things out.

3:44

But thank you all for the constant emails

3:46

and the comments and everything constantly supporting the

3:48

show and letting us know that wherever we

3:50

go, you're ride or die task

3:52

force. Yeah, I'm excited and it's cool seeing that

3:55

the task force is excited as well. So

3:57

just hang in there task force. You... might

4:00

have to walk into the same building or

4:02

maybe have to walk into a different building.

4:04

It's a good excuse to remodel again. You're

4:06

anything down and back up. You're used to

4:08

the remodeling. You're not going to be confused.

4:10

You'll know where to go. The

4:13

pool is going to move and that's just

4:15

a fact no matter what happens. So anyway,

4:18

we'll continue to remind you. We'll be

4:20

annoying about it over the next couple

4:22

of weeks, but again, just truly floored

4:24

by the ongoing support. Everybody on this

4:26

show from Fredo, myself, Christian and Jillian

4:28

have all received amazing BMS and comments and

4:30

just like a lot of how can we support

4:33

and that means the world. Not to mention Nick,

4:35

the unsung hero. Oh yeah, and Nick as well.

4:37

He's the beautiful editor of the podcast. We call

4:39

him Nickbot. He's not AI. He's a real man.

4:41

Uh, time to break that, that

4:44

illusion. He's

4:48

not here. I can't make

4:50

his own robot noises. He might splice

4:52

it in. We don't know. All

4:54

right. But with that said, I do really

4:57

eagerly want to dive into the history of this,

4:59

the Conjuring house because like, as we do wind

5:01

the podcast down, there's a few topics that would

5:03

felt remiss if

5:05

we didn't approach. This is just the

5:08

perfect combination of movie, which

5:10

we, you know, we love movies. We

5:12

love our movies and

5:15

the supernatural people experiencing ghosts.

5:17

And also just like history. I just love history.

5:20

This is a very old place. So I'm assuming

5:22

since it's kind of like an Airbnb that they

5:25

marketed it as the Conjuring house, right? Oh yeah.

5:27

All right. Oh yeah. Okay. Good. You can go

5:29

to check them out. They're called the old Arnold

5:31

estate. That's where you can find them. That's what

5:33

they're referred to as. But when you go there,

5:35

they are not shy about the connection, the history.

5:37

You can book it right then and there. Yeah,

5:39

it's probably beneficial for them, but also I wouldn't

5:41

want to book a place and then find out that

5:43

it's a notoriously scary place.

5:46

You know, like, come on. Oh, I'm

5:48

going to get this nice, lovely bed

5:50

and breakfast in the, in the, in

5:52

the, when you mean

5:54

that place, if

5:56

you come back. Okay,

6:01

so the house, as you can

6:03

tell now, I've jumped all over my

6:05

outline, but the house featured in the

6:07

Conjuring film was initially and is currently

6:10

still known as the Old Arnold Estate.

6:12

It has been in Rhode Island since 1736. I

6:15

left the script as it was because

6:17

contrary to popular belief, most houses don't

6:19

just pop up, run away. This

6:22

one is still here in Rhode Island. 288

6:26

years that house has been kicking it. That's

6:31

wild. I'm sure we'll find out when

6:33

they take over ownership, the horns, but...

6:35

We've got houses younger than me here

6:37

cracking foundations and falling apart. What

6:39

happened with build quality anyway? They

6:42

got faster. They got faster, yeah. So

6:45

the land the house is on is very close to

6:47

the Massachusetts border. A little joke here,

6:49

if you're in Rhode Island, you're close to any border. It's a

6:51

very small state. It was purchased

6:53

from Colonist Minister Roger Williams, who had

6:55

received the land from Canonicus, chief of

6:58

the Narragansett, as part of what would

7:00

become Rhode Island. The Richard

7:02

family became one of the first colonists of

7:04

Rhode Island on the land, followed by the

7:07

Arnold's by marriage, who stayed for eight generations.

7:10

Present day, the three bedroom one and a

7:12

half bath farmhouse is in the village of

7:14

Harrisville, which resides in Burrellville, Rhode Island, and

7:16

it has about eight acres of

7:19

land surrounding it. Many

7:21

point out that the house has survived multiple

7:23

wars, multiple generations of families, and so the

7:25

house or the land itself may

7:27

have supernatural aspects or

7:30

has been filled with ghosts ancient

7:32

and not ancient, but historic places like

7:34

this do seem to gravitate

7:38

those types of stories

7:40

and then entities that follow. Can't

7:43

believe this place was owned

7:46

for eight generations. That's

7:48

just something that's not really common nowadays. You

7:50

know, imagine having a place that's like,

7:52

yeah, eight generations of us lived here. No,

7:56

people scatter nowadays. Right. Someone's

7:58

willing to pay the buck. And so, you

8:00

know, grandson is going to go, Mm

8:03

hmm. College expensive cash.

8:05

Yeah. Yeah. Now,

8:07

in January of 1971, the parents

8:10

and their five daughters moved into the Arnold

8:12

estate. I believe they bought it maybe in

8:14

December of 1970. Soon

8:16

after moving in, the family noticed items around

8:19

the house going missing. Nothing too

8:21

wild. They have five daughters,

8:23

but eventually this pattern seemed to grow. And even

8:25

the daughters were like, well, what's going on with

8:27

these things? Gnomes gnomes.

8:30

Mm hmm. Ghouls of our grandparents.

8:32

Yeah. I'm surprised we haven't done an

8:34

episode gnomes. We got to be a

8:36

really good boy. Like, there's

8:38

got to be something weird there with gnomes. We got

8:40

to come back with some kind of weird, cryptid story

8:42

with gnomes. Now,

8:45

in the instances where items were found, they were

8:47

usually discovered in different areas around the house, having

8:49

been moved seemingly by random into

8:51

different rooms where they didn't belong. Again,

8:54

that does still feel like maybe children

8:56

running around, moving stuff. But it

8:58

stood out to the family. Much like other

9:00

hauntings we've covered, the family also noticed dirt

9:02

piles throughout the house, even after having just

9:04

mopped or swept the floor. Reportedly,

9:07

Roger, the father, was the only family member

9:09

brave enough to go into the house's dirt

9:11

cellar when repairs to the heater were needed.

9:13

He usually avoided it if he could, because

9:15

he said when he went down there, it

9:17

often felt very cold, very uncomfortable and also

9:19

smelled of rotting flesh. When

9:22

he would return to the main house, sometimes

9:24

the cellar door would open suddenly on its

9:26

own. Similarly, when the girls

9:28

would play in the attic, sometimes the door

9:30

would close on its own and lock them

9:32

inside. Hell no. Yeah.

9:36

The door is closed on you, and then you just

9:38

hear the little rattle of the lock shift. This

9:40

house ain't that big. I'm out. I'm going out

9:42

the window or kick in the door. I don't

9:44

jump out that window. Window first. I'll bust an

9:46

ankle. I'm locked in. What if

9:48

you kick it? You got good, strong feet now. I

9:51

do. You've been working out. I feel

9:53

like I don't kick. Bust

9:56

my butt no matter which way. Jumping

9:58

out the window. I'm, you know. Messing

10:00

up an ankle kicking the thing. I don't know I'm

10:02

kicking the thing messing it up an ankle a knee

10:05

or whatever But I mean I'm gone. I'm

10:07

sitting the house on fire. It looks like it's easily Sun

10:10

on fire. Oh absolutely That's the the old

10:12

spider in the cabinet protocol. You're hearing it

10:14

all down. I just wouldn't man like I

10:18

Don't know you got weird stuff like that going on and then

10:20

all sudden doors are locking It's

10:22

just gonna get worse right like it just

10:24

get better it. I'm always So

10:27

surprised when families just kind of become accustomed

10:30

to those sort of things right? I'm like

10:32

oh, that's normal the door closes and locks

10:34

us in now all the time like I

10:37

don't know if I'd get comfortable with that Yeah,

10:39

there's there's families that have or even though we've

10:41

been ever since where people are like yeah You know

10:43

we just kind of lived with it for years, and

10:46

I'm like hell. Yeah, no So

10:50

along with these oddities some of the parents

10:52

saw several instances of

10:54

dose and Visions of what they came

10:56

to assume were the previous residents of

10:58

the house So let's

11:00

break down kind of quickly what some of

11:03

those entities were you had the first group

11:05

of three spirits They would always appear together

11:07

as a father son and a dog Always

11:10

seen at the top of the stairs leading to the

11:12

second floor. Oh very rarely we talk

11:14

about ghost dog I need more ghost dogs

11:16

in these stories If

11:19

the house was haunted with just a bunch of

11:21

pets. I'm chilling you know then the doors can

11:23

open and close They're just nosing their way in

11:26

true Dogs don't lock doors.

11:28

No well. He's you know they don't

11:30

oh No, what if it's

11:32

a demon kind of like trying to get cozy

11:34

in with you all pretending to be a dog

11:36

yeah? So

11:41

that was the first group always seen at the

11:43

top of the stairs leading to the second floor

11:45

And then Andrea the eldest daughter of the five

11:47

claimed to have seen a ghost of herself But

11:50

this iteration of herself was kind of

11:52

in historic clothing maybe like 18th century

11:54

clothing Very how would you feel if

11:56

you saw yourself? Honestly, my

11:59

brain would break Because you

12:01

have like your normal kind

12:03

of like your normal thoughts of how it's

12:05

supposed to go, right? Like if you got

12:08

haunted tonight, mm-hmm You have some preconceived notions

12:10

of how that's supposed to go right if

12:12

I start seeing myself I

12:14

don't know if I start seeing a ghost dog. I'm

12:16

confused. I mean, I'm like I don't is the okay

12:18

Throw some new stuff at me right? I'm gonna handle

12:20

this not like not that I knew how to handle

12:22

it in the first place right like now. I really

12:25

don't know That's a great premise to a movie and

12:27

you just go like oh, we're gonna hang out in

12:29

the haunted house tonight We know what haunted it's like

12:31

what to expect and then you see a doppelgos And

12:34

you're like wait a minute. This is not at

12:36

all what I expected and then it goes off

12:38

in a totally different direction Mmm

12:42

Another commonly seen ghost was a woman

12:44

with a broken neck. Oh, no. Yeah

12:47

April the youngest of the daughters saw a

12:49

boy in her closet this

12:52

I believe was actually in some

12:55

form seen in a conjuring movie right

12:57

because there was the Noise

12:59

and I'd be in the closet. Yeah, and

13:01

then there's like the I don't know

13:04

the entity sat up on top like yeah

13:06

I'm in whoo that's that scene

13:08

freaked me out, but she saw this

13:10

young boy in her closet She

13:12

found out his name was apparently Oliver

13:14

Richardson and they became friends She

13:17

kept their friendship secret from the family for

13:19

quite some time. We don't really know how

13:21

long but that says the story goes See

13:24

now Mmm, so I don't like that

13:27

because now you have like secret. I don't

13:29

know if that's just you gotta

13:31

get out of the house Right now.

13:33

I feel like if I have kids I

13:35

gotta just like bring them into a room and interrogate them

13:38

You got any secret friends? I know I know

13:42

I heard you and you like no, I don't have

13:44

one. All right, cool. He didn't break Can't

13:50

be happy my kids can't be talking to ghosts, okay

13:54

You gotta show them a lot of these movies a

13:56

lot of them feature kids thinking they

13:58

have like imaginary friends Yeah, I

14:01

remember when I was a kid Me and

14:03

my sister would tell my dad that we saw faces in the

14:06

ceiling all the time And I don't know why we stayed in

14:08

that place We were living up if I

14:10

told I did it multiple times and we go

14:12

on ghost hunts He's

14:15

a vector He

14:18

does right off with you though Wait,

14:21

no, you're still the vector. I think I can't be

14:23

me You don't need to go that far because when

14:25

I was alone he was with you and that's when

14:27

you had flashlight situations happening with us Oh, that's true

14:31

Yeah Now the kitchen appeared to be

14:33

the most active place in the house

14:35

with Carolyn once cutting into an orange

14:37

that oozed blood And the daughters seemed

14:40

to consistently see a strange woman in the

14:42

window at the kitchen These

14:44

are all deeply unsettling things that were just kind

14:46

of accepting as normal It seems now

14:48

reportedly their beds would often be lifted

14:50

off the ground particularly Carolyn's who is

14:52

the mother Whatever NC was

14:55

causing this kind of strange occurrence seemed

14:57

to focus more on Carolyn Some

15:00

of these seem to be apparitions Just

15:02

something to see but this one in

15:04

particular seems to be messing with things physically And

15:07

it seems to focus on her and it

15:09

even reportedly attacked her one night

15:11

Carolyn felt what she believed to be a muscle spasm in

15:13

her calf while laying on the couch and when she looked

15:15

down She saw blood on her

15:17

leg, but couldn't figure out the source of it

15:19

or what caused this Get out

15:21

of the house. Oh, I mean

15:23

mirrors the movie cuz it in the mom.

15:25

Mm-hmm That was the one that was she

15:28

was like possessed forever. Mm-hmm. Don't

15:30

like it. I don't there's just way too

15:32

much here I just don't understand

15:34

look people were just built different I guess

15:37

or I don't know the situation maybe they couldn't

15:39

move but I'd sleep outside on the floor I

15:41

there's no way you got like a is

15:44

this connected. I'm looking at like the two like there's

15:47

like a primary house and then

15:50

Besides bigger than the shed, but

15:52

it looks like there's two buildings. I believe they

15:55

are connected. Uh, yeah, just like it

15:57

Yes, it is. I mean there is a main house. Yeah

16:00

It's just weird seeing them offset. So

16:04

I'm looking at, we're looking at like two

16:06

essentially like huge

16:08

cabins, but they're offset.

16:11

So, so it's just weird because

16:13

like if you go between the two, there's I guess

16:15

a narrow entrance as opposed to the whole house. Yeah.

16:18

So that gap where one half

16:20

seems smaller and one seems bigger could be, and I

16:23

don't know the order Christian's looking into it now,

16:25

but like which side was added onto, I believe

16:28

one side is like the original and the other

16:30

has been added on it. Oh, I mean, that's

16:32

true. This, this has been around for a long

16:34

time, so they tried to build upon it. Well

16:36

Christian looks into that. I want to go back

16:38

to Carolyn who kind of looked into the history of this house.

16:41

She's experiencing all this extra stuff. And so she's

16:44

going, okay, well, the reason for

16:46

this. And she found evidence in the black

16:48

book of Burlville that many of

16:50

the previous owners died in tragic ways.

16:53

This book contains a list of deaths in

16:55

this area. And while many of the stories

16:58

are true in this text, some historians have

17:00

pointed out that not all of these are

17:02

true. So basically one

17:04

can't just assume that everything in this

17:07

black book is, is true and that, you

17:09

know, they could be fabrications or exaggerations or

17:11

what have you. Basically it's not a de

17:14

facto point of evidence. Yeah. But

17:17

to cite some of the things that she

17:19

found, there were multiple accidents, drownings and suicides

17:22

on the Arnold estate. Susan Arnold

17:24

ended her own life at the age of 93. Prudence

17:27

Arnold was sexually assaulted and murdered in 1849 and John

17:29

A. Arnold ended his

17:32

life in 1911. Bad

17:37

juju on these grounds. A lot happening,

17:39

but also, you know, let's see,

17:42

93. I don't know what year that would have been. Very

17:44

interesting that someone, I mean, you know, if

17:46

you could bend your life at any point

17:48

in time, but it's usually not

17:50

at the age of 93. Yeah.

17:54

You know, I mean, we don't know the nature

17:56

of it, if it's grief or otherwise, you

17:58

know, It is interesting.

18:00

I mean, again, we don't know how much

18:03

is true and how much is not, but

18:05

like these three incidences seem relatively

18:07

far apart. I think it's just going to

18:09

happen when you go back far enough

18:11

in a place that's old enough. That's

18:14

true. So death will happen. Yeah,

18:16

if you had a place that's

18:18

there for hundreds of years, then,

18:20

yeah, of course. Yeah, but these

18:22

are more violent, right? Not natural.

18:24

Yeah, you're right. Anyway,

18:27

before we go on to the Warrens, Christian,

18:29

was there anything you found about house

18:31

expansion or remodeling or anything? Because I

18:34

did a cursory glance earlier and I didn't see too

18:37

much. Yeah, nothing that I can find, at

18:39

least in the moment. So maybe, I mean,

18:41

there's a chance that it wasn't an expansion. That's just

18:44

the original building. Yeah, I'm not finding anything on it.

18:46

It's pretty big for, you know, mid

18:48

to late 1700s, but also it's

18:51

two rectangles. Yeah. So

18:53

relatively simple, but with

18:56

that, let's move into the

18:59

Warren investigation. Oh, here we go.

19:01

Yeah. So the attacks on Carolyn got

19:03

so bad that the parents finally reached out for help

19:05

in 1973 and in 74. They

19:09

contacted Ed and Lorraine Warren,

19:11

a paranormal investigator couple that

19:13

founded the New England Society

19:15

for Psychic Research, or NESPR.

19:18

Ed claimed to be a demonologist while

19:20

Lorraine claimed to be a medium. A

19:22

lot of skepticism surrounds this couple. There's

19:25

a lot of, you know, times

19:27

where they've made things worse or they've perhaps

19:30

been out for their own attention, their own profit, for

19:32

example. That's a whole different topic,

19:34

but I do at least want to explore

19:37

their involvement in this case and

19:39

how it either helped or didn't. They

19:42

were very public about what they

19:44

were doing. Yeah. So obviously, there's

19:47

a business mindset there. You

19:49

got the whole film franchise. Yeah. And they

19:52

were doing interviews and everything like that. So,

19:54

I mean, they definitely were like, okay, we

19:56

could, this is what we specialize in, but

19:58

we can make this a business. Yeah, you

20:00

know it wasn't just like a You

20:03

know they're going around handing out pro bonos and

20:05

charity cases and just be like we're here to

20:07

help But also like yeah I mean I

20:09

could see how they make it worse because how do you

20:11

really even know like who writes the book on this thing?

20:13

You know right I? Have

20:16

no clue you know I mean if they're a vampire

20:18

were to enter this room right now

20:21

possible. I wouldn't allow it Yeah,

20:23

I don't invite them in but see

20:25

who knows is that how that works

20:27

right? They just come in That's that's

20:29

never like I don't invite you in

20:31

and just steps right Throwing

20:37

holy water bring up crosses, but like you don't

20:39

know if that's true or not or that could

20:41

be Dracula Propaganda

20:44

Oh Dracula 3000 whoa You

20:48

know future draca movie will write that You

20:51

don't need to get crazy It'll

20:54

be like the quiz at tatarac

20:56

but of vampires We're gonna spread

20:58

this like this propaganda for millennia, and

21:01

then when we show up in the year 3000 They're

21:04

gonna be all screwed up wrong

21:06

rules. We love garlic Don't

21:09

matter hearts don't beat you know

21:11

yeah I mean it could easily

21:13

make things worse because Again, this is

21:15

kind of the center of the drama a lot of the families

21:18

do believe in what they're experiencing and Sometimes

21:20

when they come in they are trying to

21:22

help, but sometimes they can make it worse

21:24

by painting a darker image So

21:26

instead of trying to find the real causes sometimes it

21:28

can only spur on more negative

21:31

emotions And yeah to molt for

21:33

the family But with that said

21:35

the Warren's have investigated a plethora

21:37

of other haunted locations Notwithstanding

21:40

the Amityville Horror House another

21:42

haunted house case as well as the Annabelle doll

21:45

both of which we've discussed here on the show

21:48

So Andrea told Providence Journal in 2013

21:50

that quote Lorraine stepped into the kitchen

21:52

and said I feel a dark presence

21:55

And her name is Bathsheba the Warren's

21:57

believe that an angry spirit or witch

22:00

was attacking the Perron family and

22:02

haunting the house. The witch's name,

22:04

as they said, was Bathsheba Sherman,

22:07

which I did kind of a quick

22:09

look into that name to see if it was a

22:11

real person, to see what I could find. And

22:14

I'll continue on with the outline in

22:16

a second, but what I found was

22:18

the story that has both fact and

22:20

fiction melded together behind a woman who

22:22

was born in the early 1800s

22:24

in the Massachusetts area. And

22:27

this is where fiction starts to step in,

22:29

where they were either working with or related

22:31

to someone who was, or a descendant

22:34

of, a woman who was hanged as

22:36

part of the Salem witch trials. So

22:38

again, there is a person with that name who

22:41

lived kind of in the area, but the

22:43

history is a little, a little bit of a

22:45

reach. It's hard to know. But coming

22:47

back to the case and the Warrens take on

22:50

this, it is said that Sherman

22:52

killed her children in a cult-like sacrifice

22:54

with a needle. Lorraine believed

22:56

that Carolyn was attacked with that same

22:58

needle. In 1974, the Warrens

23:00

brought a medium to the home to conduct

23:02

a seance. Questions kind of still

23:04

out, Christian and I were both asking like,

23:07

why not Lorraine if she was the medium,

23:09

but it seemed they brought an external viewpoint

23:11

in. In the film, this is actually

23:13

done via an

23:16

exorcism. It's portrayed rather than a seance

23:18

as an exorcism. But in reality,

23:20

during that seance, the spirit again attacked

23:22

Carolyn. According to Andrea, her mother was

23:25

thrown across the room and possessed by

23:27

some sort of spirit. Carolyn

23:29

spoke in a language that she had never

23:31

heard before. And after the seance ended, Carolyn

23:33

suffered from a concussion. Soon

23:35

after, Roger Perrin kicked the Warrens out of the

23:37

house. Carolyn told Providence Journal in 2013, quote,

23:40

the Warrens tried to help, but we

23:42

essentially found things got worse with them around. The

23:45

Perrin's continued to live in the house until 1980 without

23:48

any major known incidents. What?

23:51

So it seemed like everything kind of settled down after that

23:54

big climax. Yeah, it was the spirit just like, all

23:56

right, if you're going to bring in the big guns,

23:58

then I'm going to. I'll be

24:00

good. Yeah, yeah. That or they were like,

24:03

okay, it got riled up when we started poking

24:05

at it. Let's just not poke

24:07

at it, live our lives and then

24:09

eventually move out. And even then I feel like they

24:11

weren't poking at it to begin with. And then they

24:13

were just trying to talk to it. So

24:16

that's the funny, that's the, I

24:18

mean, like, you know, who, there's no,

24:21

I mean, there's no rules set on this stuff. You know

24:23

what I mean? There's no rules or regulations. Right. So, yeah,

24:25

I mean, who's to say that it didn't just stop, but

24:27

it just seems, I don't know.

24:29

There's not a good enough reason

24:31

for this to stop to me. Yeah.

24:33

It's interesting that pretty soon

24:35

after moving in, they experienced stuff. And then

24:38

after this, there's not really much for years.

24:40

And then they moved. Dragon's

24:44

Dogma 2, the highly anticipated successor to

24:46

the cult classic Dragon's Dogma is out

24:49

now on PlayStation 5, Xbox

24:51

Series X and S and

24:53

Steam. Dragon's Dogma 2 is

24:55

a third-person action RPG boasting

24:57

a richly detailed and deeply

24:59

explorable fantasy world created using

25:01

Capcom's RE Engine's immersive physics,

25:03

groundbreaking character AI systems, and

25:06

cutting edge graphics. Dive into the

25:08

vast and dynamic world where the

25:10

arisen is called upon to fulfill

25:12

a forgotten destiny. Across the nations

25:14

of Vermond, the kingdom of humanity,

25:17

and Batal, the nation of Bistrin.

25:19

Dragon's Dogma 2 revolves

25:21

entirely around choice. Your choice, that

25:23

is. From the sword and

25:25

shield wielding fighter to the illusion

25:27

conjuring trickster, there are over 10

25:29

unique vocations to choose from that

25:32

all require experience to unlock new

25:34

skills. And character customization is out

25:36

of this world, literally. Oh, and did

25:38

we mention the combat is really in-depth?

25:40

Like, it isn't just hacking a giant's

25:42

ankle for half an hour while you

25:44

dodge, roll, and do your attacks. No,

25:46

you can engage enemies from a distance,

25:48

climb up large foes, stab them in

25:50

their weak points, use terrain and trip,

25:52

and throw foes off high cliffs or

25:54

raging waters. Whatever your choice. Visit dragonsdogma.com

25:56

to buy the game and start your

25:59

epic quest today. That's

26:01

d-r-a-g-o-n-s-d-o-g-m-a.com to learn

26:04

more. But

26:08

with that, let's kind of dive into

26:11

the theories. It's not really theories as

26:13

much as it's dissecting the believing angle

26:15

and the skeptical angle. So

26:17

let's start with the kind of believing. So

26:20

in 2019, what is known as the Conjuring

26:22

House was purchased by Corey and Jennifer Heinzen,

26:25

another paranormal investigator couple. They believe that the

26:27

home is still haunted. Jacqueline Nunez

26:29

actually bought the home from them in 2022 but

26:33

the Heinzen's daughter is still the caretaker of the place.

26:35

Now the website mentions, quote, "'Native tribes

26:38

remained embedded in the land' end quote,

26:40

that also haunt the estate, possibly due

26:42

to the land being previously owned by

26:44

indigenous groups. They and

26:47

many visitors have reported continued sightings of

26:49

ghosts and other paranormal experiences on the

26:51

property, which is now a museum and

26:53

hotel." It does seem that

26:55

a lot of stories go back to witches

26:59

and more indigenous peoples or cultures and religions that they

27:01

don't understand. That's gotta be,

27:03

that's it, that's why. The

27:06

website for the house also shares a couple

27:09

of stories of two commonly seen ghosts. One

27:11

is Abigail Cook Arnold, who is

27:14

often seen cooking or making preserves.

27:17

Lovely decision, not jelly. Goodness

27:19

gracious, we've done with that. Not

27:22

jam, that's okay. Preserves, got the chunks of

27:24

fruit in it. Anyway, I would love

27:26

some ghost preserves. She could be heard

27:28

in the basement warning visitors to quote, get

27:30

out. The other ghost mentioned

27:32

on the site is called Matthew K, who

27:34

apparently never lived at the house, but simply

27:36

ended up there after going, as they say,

27:38

quote, towards the light. This must have been

27:41

through some sort of spirit box

27:43

or seance, this is the quote that they have. Or

27:45

it could have just been one of those portal

27:47

hotspots that we talked about in one of our

27:49

episodes. That is exactly what the Warrens believe, that

27:51

this is a kind of

27:54

portal. I'll actually quote Andrea

27:56

Heron, because she argues this,

27:58

quote, a portal. properly disguised

28:00

as a farmhouse. And because

28:02

of that, that's why she thinks this Matthew

28:05

Kay might have landed or ended up at

28:07

the Arnold estate. Though other people believe that

28:09

it's very common for ghosts to end up

28:11

at places like this if they

28:13

spent a large sum or a significant

28:15

portion of their lives there. Oh,

28:18

yeah, I could see that. You may just revert back

28:20

to where like, it's familiar to

28:22

you. Yeah, that or it's

28:24

like, you left kind

28:26

of a residual impression in time.

28:29

Yeah. Ghosts are just some sort

28:31

of fourth dimensional connection to

28:33

the past, like all of times

28:35

happening all at once in some dimension. And

28:37

so I don't know, this

28:40

sounds a bit pseudoscience, but it's viable in

28:42

some sense that we could be in this

28:44

room. But 100 years ago,

28:46

something else was happening right here. And

28:48

those energies may be like like how

28:50

sometimes we talk about echoes. Yeah, there's

28:52

no way to scientifically prove that at

28:54

this moment. But it's a fascinating theory

28:56

that intrigues me. I would love to

28:58

be able to prove that. So I

29:01

mean, I think I talked about this before,

29:03

but I mean, I guess like, as

29:05

time goes on, the echoes, like if

29:07

we were to go on a ghost hunt and then

29:09

disappear, like this is a familiar

29:11

place for the three of us. So we just

29:14

be an echo of like us podcasting here. Yeah,

29:16

you know, I go in the room and I

29:18

hear laughter or like the people

29:20

that are on TikTok or NPCs like that

29:22

would be that would suck if

29:24

that was the echo. Oh

29:27

my God, I went to

29:29

this New York street corner, vlog 21 the

29:31

year 2198, the location street

29:36

corner in New York, ghost

29:39

evidence spirit box says, hmm, thanks

29:41

for roses. Thanks for roses.

29:45

Right because like, I don't know,

29:47

that's that's what it would be nowadays.

29:49

Yeah, that's true. We

29:51

get warnings, you know, we get we

29:53

get scratches. What if like, yeah,

29:56

what if in the future there's not warnings of getting out? It's

29:58

more just like, stop the. stream and

30:00

I need to eat yeah

30:02

I mean like the roses I mean

30:05

like every every night at one o'clock this

30:08

ghost goes alive in my living room and

30:10

you know what it's like I'm

30:13

if we got influencer ghosts I'm here for it

30:15

but like brands what brands are the

30:18

ghosts talking about sure but also like

30:20

if I mean if I could like

30:22

echoes of ghosts are real that's you

30:24

know yeah I would be echo yeah that's

30:26

true I think a big you

30:28

know counterpoint to all that is why

30:31

is it when you go you could

30:33

go internationally it seems to be I'm

30:35

centering my mindset right now on American

30:37

television so English why is it

30:39

when you go international especially

30:41

when you look historically people aren't speaking

30:43

English why is it that a lot

30:45

of the times the ghosts are speaking

30:47

English yeah true sometimes not

30:49

always right but I have seen that we're like they'll

30:52

go to like an old castle in France

30:55

and you're like they're not gonna be speaking

30:57

English there no they're probably but

30:59

as an extra layer of

31:02

just frustration then by linkos

31:04

yeah because like it's like

31:06

I have a ghost that's messing

31:08

up my life which is terrible

31:11

but then also I can't understand a

31:13

word they're saying no no really yeah

31:15

I can't slow down type Google translating

31:17

going fast enough or it's frustrating

31:19

yeah I can imagine like

31:21

when when English is old and done and

31:23

we like in 500 years have a different

31:25

iteration of it maybe maybe they'll

31:27

hear our laughter but they won't get our jokes

31:30

here in this room true but let's go

31:32

with the skeptical angle because we're kind

31:34

of tiptoeing into that direction so while

31:36

Bathsheba Sherman was a real person she

31:39

never lived exactly in the Arnold estate

31:41

area but instead the neighboring

31:43

farm on old Harrisville Road so

31:45

it seemed odd that she would

31:47

be haunting this particular

31:49

swath of land again you

31:51

could make the same point about Matthew

31:53

Kay with Bathsheba you know but someone

31:55

said that Bathsheba hanged herself in the

31:57

estates barn though her obituary states that

31:59

that she died of quote

32:01

paralysis. She was also likely

32:03

falsely accused of being a witch since she had

32:06

a religious burial. But Joe Nickell

32:08

of Skeptical Inquirer wrote in 2016 that

32:11

he found many of the tragic deaths

32:13

of residents did not actually occur in the

32:15

house or even on the estate grounds. So

32:17

now we have somebody actually going back, fact

32:20

checking some of this stuff and being like, no,

32:22

most of this stuff didn't happen. As

32:25

far as like the deaths, the stories

32:27

in the blog. Property. Yeah. Though again, you

32:29

could argue that Ghost could haunt any location

32:31

at any time. If you spent time

32:33

there, it's the same thing again that we said about

32:35

Matthew Kay. It's also possible that

32:37

some parts of the parent's story were exaggerated in

32:39

order to make money, right?

32:42

In which case I point to Andrea

32:45

selling her book called House of Darkness,

32:47

House of Light. And that has three

32:49

volumes starting in 2011. I think she made one each

32:51

year, 2011, 12 and 13. So

32:55

it's kind of a long con to wait for

32:58

almost 40 years, excuse me,

33:00

almost 30 years to sell a book. But

33:03

again, it's something you gotta bring up

33:05

because everyone's got a story

33:07

to tell, especially when the Conjuring movies

33:09

are coming online and

33:11

it's blowing up. There are, or

33:13

there are- Ways to capitalize on. Ways to

33:16

capitalize. Monetization happening. Yeah, I mean,

33:18

I could see that, right? Like we

33:20

have our little podcast, we do some side

33:23

stuff apart of Red Web that are

33:25

bigger like case files. We have our

33:28

ghost hunts, but if we were

33:30

like find something and also we're writing a Red

33:32

Web book, and

33:36

rightfully some people would be like, I don't know

33:38

if I believe that. It'd be like, well, I

33:40

felt like I was touching the arm, but maybe

33:42

it was like a muscle spasm or maybe it

33:44

was just like one of the gear, but

33:46

instead I made it into, I was

33:48

grabbed by a ghost and thrown across the room.

33:51

I mean, so again, that's a conversation that

33:53

you always have to have in these moments.

33:55

Like I wanna suspend disbelief

33:58

because I'm fascinated by what- could

34:00

be. And it's fun. It is very fun.

34:02

But also you have to look at it

34:04

pragmatically too. Is there an

34:06

incentive to exaggerate the story for attention? Or

34:09

is there a desire to soften the story? You

34:11

know, everyone's got an angle, right? The

34:14

other fact of the matter is that we're

34:16

only really aware of Andrea and Carolyn's perspectives

34:18

as the other family members didn't really share

34:20

their experiences publicly. And as far as we

34:22

could find anyway, beyond what

34:25

Andrea and Carolyn had shared. So if you

34:27

see another family member talking about stuff, it's

34:29

probably because their mom or their

34:31

sister had already kind of talked about that.

34:35

So Nicole, who again, who was part

34:37

of skeptical inquirer, also theorized

34:39

that Carolyn's belief in the paranormal influenced

34:41

the parents daughters. And possibly

34:43

after the threat of divorce, Roger came around

34:45

to the idea of, again,

34:48

leaning into the paranormal of what's

34:50

happening around. Therefore, the ghost boy,

34:52

Oliver may have simply been an

34:55

imaginary friend, but because of the,

34:57

the belief of the paranormal

34:59

might've evolved into it being

35:01

an actual entity. Now

35:04

here's what's interesting. In 1987, the

35:06

Arnold estate was purchased by Norma and Jerry

35:08

Sutcliffe. They had no

35:11

experience with ghosts, but received many

35:13

unwelcome visits after the Conjuring movie

35:15

came out. So they were

35:17

there for quite some time, relatively

35:19

peacefully, no real spooky

35:21

encounters to speak of. However, this

35:24

is really interesting. The Sutcliffe said

35:26

that the cellar door would open

35:28

on its own and the attic

35:30

door would sometimes close and lock

35:32

people in. Now they believe

35:35

that this was due to temperature fluctuations,

35:37

warped doors. Of course, if it's being

35:39

built in the late 1700s and

35:43

lasting until now, it can easily

35:45

warp or just

35:47

have different craftsmanship quality across the

35:50

house. But they had a more

35:52

pragmatic answer to it. But after all, this

35:54

estate would be 200 years old by the point

35:56

of them purchasing it. Let alone today. It's

36:00

possible that this was the reason they sold the house to the

36:03

Heinzins in 2019. Again, that was

36:05

a group of investigators, people that were

36:07

much more enthusiastic about the place. And

36:09

now, again, kind of thinking a

36:11

little bit cynically now, it's okay, for a

36:14

few years it was in the hands of

36:16

paranormal investigators. Now it's transitioned

36:18

again, but now it's kind of like a

36:20

museum plus a

36:22

hotel plus a come investigate.

36:24

So it has almost become

36:26

an investment into the story.

36:28

So again, the story begets

36:30

money. And so that's not to say

36:33

that the story isn't real, you know, for the people

36:35

that believe, but for me, it gives

36:37

me at least a little pause to think a little bit

36:39

more about it. If that makes sense. Yeah, I completely agree.

36:42

I mean, it's turned into just kind of like

36:44

a place for profit. Yeah, but fascinating

36:47

story nonetheless. And it

36:49

certainly had its poll on us last

36:51

year when we did a, we did a

36:53

poll with you guys task force on if we were going

36:55

to go here or if we were going

36:57

to go to the USS Hornet for our Halloween special. I'm

37:00

really happy with how the USS Hornet came out

37:02

because you finally started to get some stuff, some

37:05

interesting experiences, but surprisingly

37:07

though, everyone wanted the Hornet. Yeah,

37:09

I thought they were going to go hard

37:11

on their house for sure. Yeah, but the

37:13

Hornet was definitely its own kind of business.

37:15

Yeah, yes, it was. And I walked away

37:17

with a piece of Neil Armstrong. And

37:20

then, you know what, even in this outline, it

37:23

says, you know, spirits go to

37:25

place of great import to them where

37:28

they spent significant time. And

37:30

what's more significant than being rescued? You landed on the

37:32

moon, you're kicking it on the moon, you come back

37:34

to the earth, you land in the ocean and a

37:36

boat picks you up. What's more significant than that boat

37:38

saving you from your moon landing in the ocean? I

37:41

think he's there, but guys don't. If he's there, he's mad

37:43

about it. Rest assured, he's

37:46

no longer there. If you visit the USS Hornet, I have

37:48

exercised Neil Armstrong from the premises. He

37:51

now resides with me in a mason

37:53

jar filled with M&Ms. Take

37:56

that with you. It was a deleted scene because

37:59

it was ridiculous. ridiculous Shattered

38:02

the tone of the investigation, but he is with

38:04

me. Well, that's what this man did You

38:07

might have seen him on the case file set. Yeah,

38:09

I will have to make sure I grab him Before

38:12

he is owned by Warner The

38:16

ghost they can you know, I gave our parent company ago

38:23

I Anyway,

38:30

this has been a really interesting one Fredo

38:32

like any closing thoughts I know it's

38:34

been a minute since you've probably seen the movie but any

38:36

other like parallels that you can identify between No,

38:40

I'm honestly like I thought there

38:42

would be more about The Warren's

38:45

and like their little room

38:47

of trinkets. Yeah. Yeah, but

38:50

was that mostly movies? No,

38:52

that that's real. Basically every location

38:54

they went to they they took a

38:57

Yeah, and I don't know if that

38:59

was because they were like let's focus all the

39:01

spiritual energy into this item and then take it

39:03

No dangerous and and then honestly, maybe that's why

39:05

they continued to live there till 1980 because even

39:08

though they said the Warren's presence made it worse

39:10

Maybe they felt a bit cleansed after they

39:13

left Yeah, and so maybe that's and again

39:15

that could be psychosomatic or it could be

39:17

real But yes, they do have

39:19

a museum. I think it recently moved it was

39:21

over in Connecticut It might still be but it

39:24

was out there in their house on

39:26

that property and has since moved I'm

39:28

seeing my fiance right now, but she actually went

39:31

there as part of the Annabelle movie

39:34

That's right premier and saw the doll saw the

39:36

doll in person too close I think she said

39:38

she was like I didn't I didn't want to

39:40

look at so I didn't like good

39:42

good on you Say not to

39:45

make eye contact with the raggedy doll and

39:47

that is Annabelle and I'm like But

39:49

I'd be tempted but I won't but I will but I

39:51

won't I wouldn't yeah I don't think

39:54

Christian would look either. I wouldn't go

39:56

in the room. Yeah kidding me. Yeah, this guy would look

39:58

There's so many stories of people Leaving that

40:00

property and ending up in yeah getting

40:02

hurt or an accident or something because

40:05

they were fooling around Saying

40:07

things around the doll. They shouldn't again. We did a whole

40:09

episode on it You want to do dive task force, but

40:12

yeah, so they do have a lot of like Josh

40:14

keys and trinkets from I

40:16

mean that That would be a terrifying room to

40:18

step into I just wouldn't how many mason jars filled

40:21

with me along Make

40:23

it feel better one. Yeah. Yeah, I'm

40:25

gonna that's what I'll do bring your

40:27

job No one tell the Warren's state

40:29

owner, but I'm gonna bring Neil and

40:32

put him in there This guy's gonna

40:34

walk out with something. I'm gonna be like don't worry I've

40:37

done what the Warren's did and and I place it

40:39

and then I walk away, but there's like 15 dozens

40:41

like Anyway,

40:45

well, thank you task force for your ongoing support again

40:47

listen and Follow in the

40:49

coming weeks for a solid update a

40:52

lot of things to kind of figure out legality wise

40:54

But again, we still really want to do this show.

40:56

So follow all of us individually on social media I

40:59

shouted them all out in the in the update

41:01

the six minute or so update that I did

41:03

a few episodes ago But in no

41:06

particular order we have at alfredo plays. I am

41:08

at underscore Trevor C the letter

41:10

C we have at X chin

41:13

young Like a

41:16

cross chin like Christian clever.

41:18

Yeah, you got it. Yeah, not a lot of people do

41:21

And then of course Jillian our

41:23

researcher at underscore Jillen J I

41:25

ll en and Nick bot

41:27

it's I don't know the spelling Schwartz

41:30

and Nick Schwartz Schwartz and Nicker.

41:32

Yeah, because it's Nick Schwartz. Yeah

41:36

Good luck with that one. Yeah It's

41:39

it's kind of like Arnold's last name a little bit.

41:41

Yeah But yeah So follow

41:43

us all on our Personals to know for a

41:45

fact how else you can support us because

41:47

everybody else has other projects that they're doing and

41:49

starting up and continuing But also just

41:52

in case we lose access to social that's

41:54

where you will definitely hear where

41:56

we continue and how to support So again,

41:59

thank you very much. And with That freedom of the right

42:01

back here next Monday. For yet and of

42:03

industry.