Prof Barney Glover AO, Vice-Chancellor and President at Western Sydney University chats to Prof Judyth Sachs about micro-credentials, reinforcing and redefining the university, metrics for success, the relationship between higher education and industry, and how universities can stay economically relevant. Barney speaks to his own early education, career, what's lacking in leadership development, and what needs more focus today in the sector. At a university with a critical purpose in society, Barney and Judyth discuss Western’s mission to be open and uplifting to the local community.