0:00

This. Week on Retro not we attempt to spell

0:02

Rumple Still skyn backward. Hello

0:26

everybody, welcome to another episode of Retro Nods!

0:28

I'm your host for this one Bob Mackie

0:30

and today will be tackling the classic see

0:32

or a series Kings Quest for the first

0:34

time and covering Classics year for the very

0:37

first time in the eighteen year history of

0:39

Retro noughts. I planned on getting around to

0:41

it at some point in my life. Of

0:43

course I had to cover every single Lucasarts

0:45

game first that just where my preferences come

0:48

in. But thankfully one of our top tier

0:50

patrons came along and forced my hand and

0:52

very friendly way by supporting the show at

0:54

a very high level and. Putting in

0:56

their request and just in time

0:58

for Kings Quest fortieth anniversary. So

1:00

before I go any further, who

1:03

is the top tier patron here

1:05

with us today who sponsored this

1:07

episode? Hire. One Ah, my name

1:09

is Dan Glass. I'm a clinical psychologist and

1:11

I don't have any real. Gaming.

1:14

Credentials other than I play them. Don't.

1:16

Think around. Me and. Then maybe at some

1:18

point throughout this episode you can let us know

1:20

if anyone has gone clinically insane. But.

1:22

By some of the puzzles and the

1:24

kings Quest the or guess we'll go

1:26

out and who else do we have?

1:28

who was or other guest on the

1:30

line today? Ah hi there I'm one

1:32

short I and in this podcast you

1:34

can call me Matt which is perfectly

1:36

fine. I run a channel called One

1:38

Short I were I talk about I

1:40

adventure game Speed runs. It's mostly Sierra

1:42

Centric because that is what my dad

1:44

bought when I was a kid and

1:46

those games have stayed in my brain

1:48

and marinated there ever since despite my

1:50

best efforts to get rid. Of them. So.

1:52

I. Love them! And yeah, that's me.

1:55

Welcome to the show Met and I

1:57

think mats I didn't have a chance

1:59

to look. The latest rankings, but at

2:01

one point you wore the number three.

2:03

Rolled. Speed Runner of Kings was

2:06

one. A long time

2:08

ago. Now my A. So I

2:10

do. I sorta consider myself an

2:12

average his seat. Rather, my interest

2:15

in speed running is less about

2:17

the competition and more about. Pulling.

2:20

The games apart and seen how they work. I

2:22

can even remember what I am on the leaderboards

2:24

for Kings Quest one at this point because in

2:26

like the last few years a lot of things

2:28

have happened in a lot of. Neat.

2:30

Optimisations have gone on but he are. Typically If

2:33

there's a game that I run, you can find

2:35

meet sorta near the middle of the leaderboards. For

2:37

the most part I'm happy with that. Though. And

2:40

needless to say, Met knows way more

2:42

than me about things worst. and as

2:44

does Dan. I basically didn't eighteen our

2:46

cram session on these games in the

2:48

before. Going any further though, I want

2:50

to talk about our experience with the

2:52

games. Mine is very simple because a

2:54

it should be noted that I'd definitely

2:56

have a Lucasarts bias. That that's clear

2:58

for me putting together all the Lucasarts

3:00

episodes for Etrade Odds. I have dabbled

3:02

a bit in the world of Sierra,

3:04

but by the time I got a

3:06

Pc or my family got a Pc

3:08

and eighty Ninety six, everybody. Was making fun

3:11

of Sierra Games the older ones. I mean

3:13

that was the era of Phantasmagoria, Gabriel Knight.

3:15

It was a different era for them. but

3:17

everything I learned about the old Sierra games

3:19

with a don't play them and hero jokes

3:21

about all the bad puzzles. so I was

3:23

just a cautious observer of them for the

3:26

longest time at of what I've I love

3:28

watching let's plays of them. I love watching

3:30

riffs of the games. I love watching a

3:32

speed runs of these games, but I've never

3:34

been brave enough to play the myself. And

3:37

that's where I'm approaching this. I love

3:39

the history of Sierra. I don't know

3:41

if I love third game Design sensibility

3:43

but or the and you sponsored the

3:45

episode where did you Meet Kings Quest

3:47

in your Life and what is it's

3:49

relationship with you Or I think that

3:51

I first saw it as a child's

3:53

like hang out. Party. Or something

3:55

that there was a little kid and get put

3:57

on his dad's computer and know there's a couple

3:59

of. Minutes of kings quest, five and

4:01

game in the castle and so forth and

4:04

dumped in. That was about it and then

4:06

I think it was. shortly thereafter my family

4:08

got a Cd rom drive for the computer

4:10

I used as a brand new computer with

4:13

the Cd rom drive and Kings were Six

4:15

was packed. The and and I just had

4:17

a good time with his her is a

4:19

great game where we're not talking specifically about

4:22

Six today, but I think a lot of

4:24

people find out to be the pinnacle of

4:26

the series and I enjoyed enlistments of. Few.

4:29

Years on and off trying to solve this game.

4:32

And. Then I came across Kings Quest

4:34

Five i think the Nintendo Entertainment System version

4:36

first and eventually got the the computerized because

4:38

years if your eyes version of the Pc

4:40

version and are and just really dug at

4:43

an end. It was mainly those two that

4:45

I play a lot of. I went back

4:47

and and consummate earlier games and eventually have

4:49

played them all. but yeah I think that

4:51

I wouldn't say that to me they are

4:54

the the best as a mind. Of.

4:56

The games in this genre myself, but I

4:59

have a huge amount of fondness for them

5:01

because of the nostalgia and just the. The.

5:03

Of the positive feelings that I get

5:05

when I look at or play these

5:07

games if I could add to that

5:09

for for a second I think of

5:12

worth at least for me night I

5:14

think to something that dad a digital

5:16

an aquarium set at one point. but

5:18

I agree with it is that Lucasarts

5:20

games are very well designed and they're

5:22

great games and but they tend to

5:24

state kind of firmly in like the

5:26

comedy sort of category And then Sierra

5:28

Games tended to be. More. Envelope

5:31

pushing. And. So they tried

5:33

to david they risked more and they tried

5:35

to do more stuff. But what that meant

5:37

was that when it succeeded it they succeeded

5:40

very well. But when they didn't succeed they

5:42

crashed and burned hard in terms of their

5:44

game design and so they had of why

5:46

guess what we would call now a move

5:49

fast break things mentality and so that the

5:51

of for better and for worse I'd That's

5:53

how I sort of see the difference between

5:55

the two. Are. Definitely I think

5:57

because year was the more popular and.

6:00

Profitable developer. They had the chance to put

6:02

out a lot more games and be a

6:04

lot more experimental. Not everything was riding on

6:06

the next Monkey Island game for them. For.

6:09

Instance but up but I'm at a where

6:11

did you come along and me Kings Quest

6:13

and it seems like it has shaped your

6:15

life. It has. I'm you

6:17

know I can't remember exactly the first

6:19

game that my dad brought home, but

6:21

I do remember was either very late

6:23

eighties are very early nineties. He just

6:25

you know. He. Was the one in

6:28

charge of buying things and he brought

6:30

home. I think it was Kings Quest

6:32

five, but if it wasn't it was

6:34

somewhere around there. Eventually we got the

6:36

entire series and there was just something

6:38

about. That. Mode.

6:41

Of Game That that really appealed to me

6:43

and I was a big reader. As a

6:45

kid, I wanted characters and stories in my

6:47

games, and at least at the time. If

6:50

you wanted anything resembling that, even

6:52

if. As. It is in Kings

6:54

Quest. The story and characters are paper thin.

6:57

If you wanted anything, you know, even close

6:59

to that, you had to go to adventure

7:01

games. Ah, Ages was sort of chance and

7:03

happenstance that I was not exposed to the

7:06

Lucasarts games. And so yeah, the we were

7:08

a Sierra householder. I'm not sure I you

7:10

know, I don't ask him one of these

7:12

days. I'm not sure if my dad just

7:15

didn't know about Lucasarts, but you know, since

7:17

he was the one who brought home the

7:19

games, that's what we got. Yeah.

7:21

Does seem it's what finds you first as a

7:23

kid because I was turned out adventure games via

7:25

the any Us version a Maniac Mansion and I

7:28

didn't but. There's. Gotta be other things

7:30

like this in there weren't really on a Nintendo

7:32

and that's when I really wanted a Pc for

7:34

the longest time. And then we finally got one

7:36

and I caught up. A yeah it's all because

7:38

that was just a video game available for the

7:40

Nintendo and Nintendo Power are sold it to me.

7:43

The cover story: It's a great town. It's.

7:45

A great thing when you could have you know. Both.

7:48

The best of both worlds, right? And I think it's

7:50

one of these are when of these. Women

7:53

tend overseas Sega kinds of of

7:55

things were a lot of people

7:57

pit the Us Sierra against look.

8:00

The Arts and Down. Of course, You know many gamers. I

8:02

enjoy both of them. I was I was as somebody who

8:04

grew up at both of these, and I have a huge

8:06

amount of fondness for both. Both

8:08

companies but for for their different reasons.

8:10

yeah I mean and they had a

8:12

friendly rivalry in. in the end neither

8:14

developer really exists anymore. So with I

8:17

had to have it like but you

8:19

know still being invested in which makes

8:21

it better. Venture Games is kind of

8:23

fruitless at this point. So I will

8:25

say in in Defense of the Enemy

8:27

Lucas our I if if someone were

8:29

to ask me to recommend them a

8:31

classic adventure game, it would probably be

8:34

a Lucasarts game over a Sierra one

8:36

for someone new the genre just because.

8:38

No Deaths know we're dead ends and dead

8:40

men walking situations less frustrating Overall for the

8:42

most part saw give them that. Yeah I

8:45

mean I don't know this is unfair but

8:47

the way I look at Sea or Games

8:49

is the way I would look at an

8:51

older version of something that we are now

8:53

used to like the old timey version of

8:56

the bicycle with a giant front wheel nuts

8:58

with their adventure games remind me of and

9:00

to me Lucasarts Games are the standard bicycle

9:02

where it's like well the other bike still

9:04

works but they found out a better way

9:07

to make the. Bike And that's the standard

9:09

designed for the bike. I don't know that and

9:11

algae works well. That's just what was formulating in

9:13

my head ago. It hopes on insulting by the

9:15

plane. But on this

9:17

patasse we're gonna be talking about the of

9:19

the Arab ah the origins of the first

9:22

kings Quest game. Never going to jump of

9:24

forward in time to talk about things. was

9:26

five a game with a lot of those

9:29

same in infamy and I because there are

9:31

so many games with to be very selective

9:33

but I thought dan into covering fire because

9:36

it's the one I know the most. About

9:38

I think the one that is really generate the most.

10:06

No, we're going to move on. Talk about the

10:08

history of Sierra, a company that made his mark

10:10

in the world for about two decades. And.

10:12

Then, like a lot of developers who was

10:14

acquired by larger company, losses identity and then

10:17

fell apart. So if you are part of

10:19

a small business, beware of being acquired. The

10:21

same thing has happened since the beginning of

10:23

time it had happened to Sierra. yet a

10:26

Weirdly enough, before they went away, they did

10:28

publish Half Life. so a fun job. You

10:30

can tell people if they ask you your

10:32

favorites here game is this a Half Life

10:34

and or just you as he could confuse

10:37

them into submission. You wouldn't be entirely wrong.

10:39

So. Whenever I

10:41

see Sierra on the. City Caves. I'm

10:43

like oh right that happened Okay

10:45

sir, I'm be a Sierra. Founded

10:48

in nineteen seventy Nine as online

10:50

systems by the husband wife duo

10:52

Ten and Roberta Williams. Ah, they

10:54

really wanted to get into the

10:56

world of business. Software was a

10:58

burgeoning field. Ah, I'm Ten purchases

11:00

teletype machine and order to communicate

11:02

with a Us server computer And

11:05

in looking up the see what

11:07

software is available on the server

11:09

computer he discovers a very important

11:11

game. And. That is a Colossal

11:13

Cave adventure and if you want more context

11:15

on this, I recommend you check out our

11:18

episode four Sixty it on tax Adventures but

11:20

I'm. To. Give more context

11:22

for this podcast. Basically a teletype Messina

11:24

is in early early version of what

11:26

we will call cloud computing today. Where

11:28

ah at it. In in the earliest

11:31

versions of you didn't have a monitor,

11:33

you had something that's bad our paper

11:35

but you're communicating with something that was

11:37

doing all the computing far far away

11:40

from you In this is where all

11:42

of the first adventure games came from.

11:44

A usually designed. To. Be played

11:46

by college students on college campuses. The

11:48

few places outside of you know, the

11:51

military that could afford these giant mainframe

11:53

computers. And ah yes, they discovered this

11:55

classic A of adventure game and they

11:57

got obsessed with it and they thought

12:00

this could be what weary we can

12:02

be doing. The know a business software

12:04

is fine, but the seems more fun.

12:06

And yeah, this is their main inspiration

12:09

to the point where when Roberta Williams

12:11

emerge from seclusion or whatever she was

12:13

doing after the death of Sierra, one

12:15

of the things he launched was a

12:17

reboot of Colossal People Venture, which I

12:20

apparently released last January. I remember the

12:22

Kickstarter Foreigner. It's just the announcement for

12:24

it, I know a match. You might

12:26

have some thoughts on this, this the

12:29

of this. Reboot fifty years

12:31

later, almost of a colossal cave

12:33

adventure. Yeah. Want to give

12:35

a little more clarity to the orange his of

12:37

it that the have at how I understand it

12:39

is that. During the pandemic

12:41

can I think it was the pandemic remember right

12:44

after it can was sort of messing around and

12:46

unity. I'm on their boat I guess because they

12:48

live in a houseboat I'm I'm not sure if

12:50

that's where the was doing it but I like.

12:53

I like to think that they were on the

12:55

both sound similar to the back. So

12:58

he's mess around with unity and he he

13:00

sees think it about we and maybe I

13:02

should just make again to teach myself this

13:04

to they are dismissed around and I think

13:06

it was Roberta who mentioned to hey you

13:08

know you oughta remake a colossal caped that's.

13:10

Where we started. And. She almost sorta tried

13:13

to stay out of it for a little bit. And

13:15

then eventually she just couldn't help herself. And then

13:17

the oh they came back together That. Yeah.

13:19

Know they got permission to to remake

13:21

it and now here we are. But

13:24

so I haven't played it myself but

13:26

I have seen. Play. Throughs

13:28

of the game I have seen other people

13:30

speed run it and. For. Better

13:32

or for worse, it is of the

13:34

pretty faithful remake of the original. In

13:36

terms of it's it's gameplay like if

13:38

you were to, if you are just

13:40

to tell somebody okay take this text

13:42

adventure. And. Then make it

13:44

three d but keep. Everything.

13:47

The same. aside from the fact that there's

13:49

a graphical interface with it, that's what you

13:51

get with this. And. So if

13:53

you have a lot of nostalgia for it

13:56

at people seem to respond well to it.

13:58

But. If you don't like a launch

14:00

of randomness in games like dwarves popping

14:02

up and just randomly killing you and

14:04

your game's over, or if you don't

14:07

like that. Then. You might have

14:09

a problem with this game, but. You

14:12

know I it it. It seems like

14:14

the if you're again if your goal

14:16

was just to remake Colossal Cave. That's.

14:19

What they did. Yeah. I mean

14:21

it would look shockingly accurate to the

14:23

source material and I'm I'm happy that

14:25

they did. It is for certain audience

14:27

going back to the mid seventies though

14:29

our the late seventies. The couple sees

14:31

promise in this new field. So they

14:33

were really inspired by the very very

14:36

few adventure games available for play like

14:38

the pre commercial release of Zurich or

14:40

the handful of Tax of Inches by

14:42

Scott Adams not the Dilbert got out

14:44

of put a different one and not

14:46

Douglas Adams the Gary Hitchhikers Guide although

14:48

there was a Hitchhikers Guide game. It's

14:50

very complicated. Ah, but yes, Roberta

14:53

is inspired by the medium that

14:55

burgeoning. And she's also inspired by

14:57

the Agatha Christie novel and and

14:59

there were none. So this is

15:01

where the Mystery House comes in

15:03

from Nineteen eighty and. You

15:06

know in in developing this game they

15:08

thought what if a video game had

15:10

graphics well you know what if an

15:12

adventure game graphics and that was the

15:14

big breakthrough with Mystery House or it

15:16

is the first known adventure game with

15:18

graphics and if you look at the

15:20

play through of this eyes for the

15:22

apple to the graphics are hilariously crude.

15:24

It is like the things you would

15:26

pin on your fridge that your for

15:28

year old you bless. They. Were

15:30

still graphics. And they were not even

15:32

just pre rendered bit maps that were

15:35

stored on it. As these were the

15:37

graphics were basically instructions telling the computer

15:39

what to draw on the screen when

15:41

it loads the screen. So really primitive,

15:43

Somebody had to do it and they

15:45

were first that bad when it came

15:47

to graphics. An adventure games. The. I

15:49

think that's a great way to put it if

15:51

if you look at the the that graphics were

15:53

deemed put that in quotation marks like they're they're

15:56

not good with it's way into like he said

15:58

a yacht a child could probably drugs. As

16:00

well, but. You. Just by virtue of been

16:02

the first. Like it's impressive

16:04

for being the first rate. Oh

16:07

yes yeah I mean they they had that thought

16:09

in it. it means somebody had to have it

16:12

in it. will be soon that adventure games with

16:14

sir having graphics pretty regularly but they were first.

16:16

And because of that this game was a huge hit

16:19

arm. Because. There were no video

16:21

game stores then it was sold the

16:23

way most games are sold via a

16:25

plastic baggie through a magazine. They sold

16:27

this for Twenty Four Ninety Five, which

16:29

is about ninety dollars today. And.

16:32

It's all ten thousand copies and this. Is

16:34

where they expanded their operation.

16:37

Started. making a lot of venture

16:39

games and. We. Could talk more

16:41

about Sierra. They've had a lot of ups

16:43

and downs even when they were publishing a

16:46

lot of games and successful company, but it

16:48

seems that pre Kings Quest they are making

16:50

a lot of bad investments. And.

16:52

Before the release of that game, the

16:54

company had shrunk drastically from one hundred

16:57

employees to twenty employees for various reasons.

16:59

Are a lot of real estate investments

17:01

are you? They'll be building a house

17:03

that was too. big things like that,

17:06

but it's it's another common story. Don't

17:08

get acquired and also well get ready

17:10

for layoffs because that's another just. Common.

17:13

Thing in game development that's been going on

17:15

for the past forty plus years in The

17:17

Yard, The Mystery House It Adventure game. The

17:19

the release of that kicked off the Hi

17:21

Rez adventure series which is a bunch of

17:24

tax adventures with graphics and one of those

17:26

games as was it in the Princess and

17:28

it's cited in many places as being. The.

17:30

First adventure game with full color graphics i'm

17:32

i'm making see or quotes here and contains

17:35

a lot of the elements that would be

17:37

associated with thinks was. And weirdly

17:39

enough, Kings Quest Five takes

17:41

place in. The. Same setting as

17:43

the Wizard in the Princess I know

17:46

our one of you has a little

17:48

more info on this early fantasy tax

17:50

adventure game of there's Your Answer Mattis

17:52

played at home. I spent some time

17:55

of the you that played it down

17:57

know I was right. Well I would

17:59

say. People who have not played this

18:01

are not missing all that much. I think

18:03

that like many of these games at the

18:05

time, it was a cool thing to be

18:07

doing to be playing one of these games.

18:10

I would say the visuals are still crew

18:12

just now. There's color and it's not gray

18:14

color by the way, it is just some

18:16

colors on. I would say that beautiful box

18:18

art of the game does most of the

18:20

heavy lifting for I'm the. Search

18:22

for you to envision the settings you're

18:24

playing. It's at first person game arms

18:26

and you're looking around and you're typing

18:28

this. Very simple to word parser. I'm.

18:31

Just for a kind of timeline context.

18:33

This game came out a few months

18:35

before the commercial release of Zurich One

18:37

which I guess what the end of

18:39

Nineteen Eighty? It none of that game

18:41

Schumer or creativity or character so know

18:43

when I'm in for com to make

18:46

this or game said the best graphics

18:48

are in your mind I'm. I

18:50

don't know if they were explicitly taking a shot at

18:52

games like this in particular, but. There's.

18:55

Just not a lot here. This are

18:57

very skeletal. kind of a tax. And

19:00

there is a very simple parser and the

19:02

gameplay elements are illogical. I'm so there's a

19:04

of puzzle where you have to get bread

19:06

to a lion. It's really not clear why

19:08

are why mood would want that Out of

19:10

all the the items that that a person

19:12

to get an irritated that a developer could

19:15

have put into the game is a parrot.

19:17

the sort of randomly gives you a vial

19:19

of something or other when you get a

19:21

cracker. So how how you how with the.

19:23

Parrot. Have the Vile this year. so

19:25

it's things like that. And there's a

19:27

lot of games of this era that

19:29

worked like that's up. There are some

19:31

puzzle or environmental elements that reappear in

19:33

some of the Kings Quest games like

19:35

are not a poisonous snake but I'm

19:37

other than being historically interested, I would

19:39

call it completely and essential even for

19:41

a Kings Quest fans Yeah, really does

19:43

seem like a footnote in the history

19:46

of Kings Quest and by in just

19:48

the three short years after Mystery House.

19:50

They've. Grown so much that they are now making

19:52

video game adaptations of movies. Some of the

19:54

first that a to ever exist in one

19:56

of those is the Dark Crystal. Unfortunately the

19:58

movie is on his it. And.

20:01

Their engine is looking pretty old and crust the

20:03

by the time this game comes out. so this

20:05

was a big flop for Sierra. And.

20:07

In weirdly enough, Lucasfilm would then develop

20:10

the game for Labyrinth. I guess because

20:12

Lucas On had not yet existed at

20:14

the point that the Dark Crystal came

20:17

out. Maybe that's why they they ended

20:19

up making the game for Labyrinth for

20:21

the for the Pc. But yeah, ah,

20:24

of silica. ton of growth. and just

20:26

three years from making that monumental adventure

20:28

game to denote making a movie adaptation.

20:31

So yes, their next incredibly influential game

20:33

will come out. Thanks. To a

20:35

miserable failure of a platform that lasted a

20:37

year and that is thinks West. So why

20:39

go on? I want to cite the Digital

20:42

and Aquarium was a great article called the

20:44

Unmaking and Remaking of See On Now Whatever

20:46

I'm doing research, I'm always pleased to see

20:48

the digital and the Koreans law comes up

20:50

and most pleased to see that it looks

20:52

like it's still from the year. Two thousand

20:54

and two. Somebody is out there still doing

20:57

it. and I am. I had a soft

20:59

sir and this article is great. He goes

21:01

over a lot of details and I used

21:03

extensively in my research. so. Please check

21:05

that out! So. Let's. Go

21:07

back to Nineteen Eighty Two! Ah I

21:10

B M is looking for some hotlines

21:12

games for their upcoming platform, the I

21:14

B M Pc Junior and this was

21:16

meant to compete with other low cost

21:19

computers and to be geared towards video

21:21

games. A new thing people were excited

21:23

about Though I should point out that

21:26

in this era low cost met a

21:28

cost much more than the highest end

21:30

gaming Pc does. Today are looking at

21:32

inflation calculators which are not ever to

21:35

reliable. The low and model of this

21:37

was two thousand us dollars. Today in

21:39

the high end was four thousand So

21:42

I still pretty expensive. A Gaming until

21:44

recently was a very very expensive hobby.

21:46

So Sierra had a relationship with I

21:48

B M. Because the Nineteen Eighty One

21:51

the company contacted them deport Wizard in

21:53

the Princess. What you mentioned earlier for

21:55

their new platform call the Pc. Ah,

21:58

and because of this connect. In Ib

22:00

implies or ten Williams and a High

22:02

Level see are employing on as yep,

22:04

Stevenson and A Pit some ideas for

22:06

this new platform. One of them, weirdly

22:09

enough, is a word processor which would

22:11

become the default word processor for the

22:13

Pc Junior. Ah, but I B M

22:15

knew that Serum A Gothic Adventures and

22:17

they wanted something similar for the launch

22:19

of their new system. a game that

22:21

would show off. The. Marvelous! Sixteen

22:23

colors and offer multiple solutions

22:26

for puzzles. Lottery play ability.

22:28

They wanted a big flashy

22:30

adventure game. For. This

22:32

new platform. And this is

22:34

when Ten and Jeff made this huge

22:36

pitch for a new style adventure game.

22:39

They new Info Com was the big

22:41

dog in the world of text adventure.

22:43

So at this point so with you

22:45

know the help of I B M,

22:48

they wanted to try to reinvent themselves,

22:50

make a new game. In this game

22:52

the ideas are unprecedented. It would have

22:54

real time control over the player character

22:57

with a joystick and other elements not

22:59

commonly seen in adventure games and. Obviously

23:02

what I B M S for

23:04

a nonlinear style game many approaches

23:06

the puzzles, watch the replay value

23:08

and in trying to win over

23:10

I B M. They. Get

23:12

the contract or whatever you want

23:14

to call it and they set

23:16

off to make things less which

23:18

would take I've heard estimates eighteen

23:20

months and a hundred and thousand

23:22

dollars I believe, most of which was

23:24

paid for by I B M

23:26

and those are very, very uncommon

23:28

numbers. In. The World of Nineteen

23:31

Eighty Two Game Development. The It goes

23:33

without saying that when ten and just

23:35

come back from this meeting with I

23:37

B M. Nobody. Likes

23:39

them anymore because. They're. Saying oh

23:41

you pitch this insane idea Now we have

23:44

to make a great but they wanted to

23:46

really show I B M. You know that

23:48

we could make this thing where we can

23:50

stab head idea as they didn't want to

23:52

back out of this very nice contract that

23:54

would further their relationship. So yes they set

23:57

out to make Kings Quest and they use

23:59

that I be. The money to make

24:01

a game engine that would then power

24:03

the next, i think thirteen or fourteen

24:05

games for the next six years. So

24:08

they're using that money wisely. This game

24:10

engine now you know. Lucasarts had the

24:12

Scum engine and the Grime Engine. This

24:15

engine was first call the game adaptation

24:17

language or gal and then he thought,

24:19

well, that's too cutesy So was later

24:21

renamed the Adventure Game Interpreter or A

24:24

D I I'm in Sierra. They're.

24:26

Doing very badly financially at this point in

24:28

time you know the games are selling but

24:31

they made they built a huge new office.

24:33

Tenor Berta have a new house. You know

24:35

things are not looking well but. Also.

24:38

In terms of I B M, things are looking

24:40

well either because nobody likes the Pc Junior. The

24:43

Pc Junior does not sell enough. To.

24:45

Make Kings Quest to hit in any

24:47

potential way. They can't sell enough units

24:49

of the hardware itself to justify keeping

24:52

Sear and business ib. Have either of

24:54

you heard of this Pc Junior? This

24:56

was new to me. It was so

24:58

hated in so ephemeral people were comparing

25:00

it to new Coke. The.

25:02

Only reason I know about the Pc

25:04

Jr is because of Kings Quest an

25:07

hour outside of yes that that context.

25:09

I've never. Heard of it? I

25:11

have no idea. I have no idea why it

25:13

failed. It's that obscure to. Get

25:16

the jump for joy is it seems like a

25:18

toy, right? it seems. The guy you know if

25:20

you look at it now is even the name

25:22

right. It implies that it's. The. Oval that

25:24

lightweight and I'm. You know, Who.

25:27

Knows I wasn't there but I'm it's It's one

25:29

of these are fail products that you can't look

25:31

back on and it's easy to kind of. Whatever.

25:35

Be smarmy about it, I'm I feel

25:37

bad writing they had they had. Good.

25:39

Intentions to try to make a lot

25:41

more accessible Pc for for users. Yeah

25:44

it seemed like the they had good

25:46

intentions how it how it you know

25:48

shaped up in the end wasn't so

25:50

gray I was just reading. You know

25:52

thought at the time when this was

25:54

new in one of the big sticking

25:56

points or people was the chick lit

25:58

keyboard a bad keyboard and. And the

26:00

fact that it was incompatible with a

26:02

lot of I B M software was

26:05

another sticking point. So it was still

26:07

fairly expensive, but I didn't offer enough

26:09

features in despite how you know Bleeding

26:11

Edge the Kings Quest was in terms

26:13

of what it was doing, it was

26:16

not moving any system so things look

26:18

very very bad for Seer. At this

26:20

point in time they could have just

26:22

fallen apart in Nineteen Eighty Three. that

26:25

would have been the ended up I'm

26:27

but luckily. Other. Platforms are

26:29

launching that could easily accept the port

26:31

for Kings Quest Arms because the Ib

26:33

Mpc Junior High A Hundred Twenty a

26:35

killer bites of ram. Ah,

26:37

an existing cancels they were used

26:40

to making games for had Sixty

26:42

Four K or Less but. The.

26:44

Apple Two, C launched the Tandy

26:46

one thousand launched and that made

26:49

porting Kings Quest possible. And because

26:51

of this, Sierra had a strong

26:53

partnership with weirdly enough, Radio Shack.

26:55

when Radio Shack was the place

26:57

he went to get your computer

26:59

was it was just. For. Most

27:02

people it seemed like that was the closest

27:04

place you could ever go to get a

27:06

computer. And because the Seer as the with

27:08

Radio Shack, they were almost the default video

27:11

games you would buy with your computer just

27:13

because they were the ones on the shelves.

27:15

At. The store above the computer you're purchasing. Those

27:18

are the days when zealand remember the smell of

27:20

Radio Shack. Like being in the Radio Shack in

27:22

that. That. I don't know.

27:24

It's and nineteen eighties. Computer.

27:26

Store smell. It still lives

27:28

up here. We didn't go to Radio Shack,

27:31

but I do remember Babbage's Babbage's was the

27:33

big one in the mall. Great

27:36

memories of that bruce browsing Adnan. A

27:39

And the smell of Radio Shack to me is

27:41

if you pick up a digital clock and old

27:43

one is a smell, smell the inside of it

27:45

through that little that and that's it is. It's

27:48

probably harmful to us. Every have you spent in

27:50

a Radio Shack probably cut off a month of

27:52

your life behave. As a

27:54

Brit, pretty nice vibes, right? Okay,

27:56

so yes, Radio Shack, their partnership

27:59

help see. So Kings quest for

28:01

different platforms. They climb out of their

28:03

debt whole and there soon you know.

28:05

stable again in the go on and

28:08

make more and more games. But things

28:10

are really shaky. Between Eighty Two and

28:12

Eighty Three Fourth Year, they could have

28:14

disappeared entirely and this is a very

28:17

popular game. This first Kings was, like

28:19

many of the other games to follow.

28:21

it will receive ports this one. Ah,

28:23

I think this ultimately nine or ten

28:26

fourths of this scheme, which even includes

28:28

a port for the Master system. Of

28:30

all things and this one because

28:32

there no keyboard for the master

28:34

system you are selecting a by.

28:37

Now and and verbs instead of having a

28:40

point and click interface that they find a

28:42

way to make it work on the Consul.

28:44

sort of like how they find a way

28:46

to make it work for the any Us

28:48

with thinks was five. Most of the other

28:50

ports look at least similar. The the master

28:52

system version is sort of unique in that

28:55

your your your player characters really cute see

28:57

like all the graphics are really cute see

28:59

and it just aren't like all the screens

29:01

are the same in idea but he just

29:03

looks completely different. Ah yeah it it's a

29:05

good. It's a goofy little artifact. Everything

29:07

is a lot more squats and not

29:10

as lanky. I consider the gig the

29:12

Kings Quest one graphs be to everyone's

29:14

is very lanky, tall and lanky for

29:16

yeah, that really is the truncated history

29:18

of Sierra up until the release of

29:20

Kings Plaza. Fascinating company. There's more to

29:23

be said. We're going to leave it

29:25

there for now and move on to

29:27

talk about the first instance. This

29:55

is where I will step aside

29:57

a little bit because my know.

30:00

This game comes from the past two days.

30:02

Are you to have you been living with

30:04

this for a very very long time? Decades?

30:06

So yeah, thanks. was one publish it may

30:08

about it. Eighty Four. Happy Fortieth Birthday for

30:10

the Pcs junior. Although it seems like the

30:12

Nineteen Eighty Seven I B M Pc port

30:15

is the most played version and it's the

30:17

one that you will play if you download

30:19

the King's Cutlass Collection on Steam or Gog.

30:21

By the way, these are all play ball

30:23

today. Legally you can buy all these games

30:25

of with Activision owns the rights. So yeah,

30:28

go on Steam if you want to play.

30:30

A lot were talking about and the story

30:32

in this game is simple, but it has

30:34

way more story than almost any other game

30:36

in Nineteen Eighty Four. You are Sir Graham,

30:38

Your nights. You. Go to

30:40

the King of Daventry to find three magic

30:42

objects. In fact, he tells you, hey, graham,

30:45

ideally three objects and then you gotta find

30:47

them or whatever order you want to. Over

30:50

time they would add more lore

30:52

to the game. primarily. I believe in

30:54

the documentation to explain why you're here.

30:57

who you are, the fact that are

30:59

the kinda the way to steal objects

31:01

from people. These were his once

31:03

and he was tricked by a princess

31:06

or something and now he wants them

31:08

back so they're. Building more backstory

31:10

into you know, on newer versions

31:13

of the game, but in this

31:15

first release it's just hey, I.

31:18

Don't a scavenger hunt? Find the three objects

31:20

in? Go. find them whatever way you want,

31:22

Whatever order you want. And that

31:24

sort of how it is in the game

31:27

even and instead Eighty Seven release. But they.

31:29

In. The manual they expanded to the

31:32

story which I have to give them

31:34

phrases for their documentation really. And all

31:36

the King's was games they really tried

31:38

to make. The War and in

31:40

the packaging and the. Phillies.

31:42

I guess some people call them. oh

31:44

you're really interesting. Of and you know

31:46

all of the artwork in the skirt. Isis is just

31:49

great! But in the game. I

31:51

for I've replayed the first like five minutes

31:53

last night to double check but. Even.

31:55

In the Eighty Seven re re re

31:57

released, it's basically Hague A Gram. Or

32:00

kingdoms in trouble. Go. Get This

32:02

stuff. And then come back. It's

32:05

very, very sort of strange what they are, changing.

32:07

what they didn't change, but one of the things

32:09

that they change in the two versions. they're very

32:11

similar. Id most the time you don't recognize your

32:13

plate one of the other, but for some reason

32:15

I'm. Spoiler when the

32:17

king passes away. At the end he

32:19

does a strange kind of like spinning

32:22

are kind of death sequence in they

32:24

just decide to hadn't keel over in

32:26

that in the updated version several years

32:28

later. I guess if I was too

32:31

silly on. Yes, Strange

32:33

little lot but bit of trivia

32:35

Their get this like minor gameplay

32:37

differences to like com. If. You

32:40

watch Planters of the Pc Junior version you

32:42

can You. You. Can you

32:44

have to watch all the screens be

32:46

drawn in really slowly? And then there's

32:48

also this weird thing where I beat

32:51

the original. How. To describe it,

32:53

it didn't really have text boxes that popped

32:55

up. Everything was in the parser that in

32:57

like the lower third of the screen so

32:59

you'd type something. And. Then it would

33:01

show up right underneath for you type whereas in.

33:04

The. Remake. You would still type at the bottom but

33:06

then you would get feedback and these text boxes and

33:08

would pop up in the middle of the screen. Yet.

33:12

Even though was the first release or

33:14

I believe no one really considers the

33:16

Pc Junior version the definitive way to

33:18

play Kings Quest one. And yeah, like

33:20

like I was saying earlier, this game

33:22

was a big deal. Ah it was

33:24

a new kind of venture game or

33:26

one with a level fidelity that no

33:28

one had seen before. I if you

33:30

just if you're looking at a long

33:32

play of this Graham has so many

33:34

unique animations are unheard of at the

33:36

time to put this much work into

33:38

are accessible character in a video game

33:40

and alarmingly he can walk behind objects.

33:42

On the screen which Danny put in

33:44

the notes is why they they had.

33:46

They justify calling it a three game

33:48

because Graham could walk behind a bush

33:50

or behind Iraq. Greedy If you are

33:53

told one of these kids today that

33:55

you're gonna show misreading gaming and you

33:57

put this I think of these really

33:59

discipline. But this was cool the

34:01

time they were foreground elements like

34:03

columns in the castle. Whatever, I'm

34:05

here because of it was nice.

34:08

Yeah. Whatever I mean for the time it

34:10

it was three d area is not as

34:12

it's it's not false advertising for what he

34:14

had a huge you would think of at

34:16

the time. Everly was cool. Yeah. Me

34:18

few games had an ex in a y

34:20

axis and if they did you certainly really

34:22

couldn't walk behind objects that was to too

34:25

sophisticated for most games with the time. And

34:27

the way the game begins. Is. It

34:29

forces players to interact with this new means

34:32

of control before Graham even gets his mission

34:34

because before you can even understand what the

34:36

game's about, you have to walk across the

34:38

bridge, walk into the castle and walk to

34:40

the king and talk to him and a

34:43

really lets you know what you're in for.

34:45

A prompt because if you stray too close

34:47

to the water. Yes, You will

34:49

die instantly. The crocodiles will eat you.

34:51

This is welcome to Kings Quest. There

34:54

is danger around every corner, but I

34:56

really enjoy the way the game is

34:58

designed. Just to let the player and

35:00

okay burn out of control the character learn there's

35:02

dust everywhere and then you get on with typing

35:04

and you know about of the king. Talk to

35:06

the king and all the things you do an

35:08

adventure game but first you need to get around

35:10

these controlled understand how they work the and that

35:12

that would be a trend throughout the kings Quest

35:14

games where you can die on. Either.

35:16

The first screen Or almost the first screen.

35:18

And I'm trying to think at least three

35:20

of the games. You. Start out on

35:22

a beach that you can promptly like

35:24

walk into the ocean and die. Yeah.

35:27

I was. it was a real trend. Just

35:29

let you know this, this world is going

35:31

to be harsh and like a lot of

35:33

early adventure games. Kings. Was one is

35:36

fairly nonlinear are it? It's kind of an open

35:38

world game of it's air as he can call

35:40

a three game. You could also have an open

35:42

world game because few games were a few game

35:45

worlds where this large. so it's a neat by

35:47

sixth grade of forty eight screens not counting interiors

35:49

and unlike you know the Legend of Zelda years

35:51

later, there are no define borders at the age

35:53

of this map. When you walk off the right,

35:56

most edge of the right, most square, you end

35:58

up on the left most agile. Most

36:00

were because the map kind of wraps around

36:02

in a kind of cube which makes things

36:04

very very confusing which makes the player have

36:07

to basically methods at themselves. They don't have

36:09

a strategy guide or a printout or of

36:11

facts or whatever. Use of the time to

36:13

find your way through the world of Tanks

36:16

was one. A what was fun

36:18

to is that die if if you

36:20

start walking. You. Will keep walking

36:22

even onto the next screen. So if

36:24

you found you know the right. Sort.

36:27

Of coordinate you could. I'm trying to think.

36:29

I believe it's the case that in a

36:31

few places you can keep wrapping around forever.

36:35

But the you know if you've just find of the

36:37

right coordinate their but yeah you can keep walking for

36:39

a pretty long time there until you run into some

36:41

yeah you press the eric you to start walking don't

36:43

press it again you of thing and walk in the

36:46

at the press it to stop and that yeah little

36:48

bit of. Through. The of an adjustment if you

36:50

were to back and play a game like. This. And

36:53

then one important note you added to the

36:55

kings quest. One note is that. This.

36:57

Game in the series is mostly about

36:59

incorporating ideas from fairy tales into an

37:01

adventure game. When you see Kings Quest,

37:03

you might think oh what Like Lord

37:05

of the Rings. Or. Are

37:07

you know high fantasy? I mean that

37:09

those elements are there, but it's really

37:12

incorporating. These are stories that you know,

37:14

presumably the children or adults playing this

37:16

game have grown up with and have

37:18

internalized because many of the solutions require

37:21

you to know. Let's say, how Rumple

37:23

Still can seeks out or you know,

37:25

other fairy tales of that. Oh, that's

37:27

right, if you're sort of, if you

37:30

look at, the game's kind of. From.

37:33

A From a distance what you

37:35

see is an attempt to widen

37:37

the the videogame audience to families,

37:39

to us, to women. and so

37:41

this is not. you know, high

37:43

fantasy, i've ever sword and sorcery

37:45

kind of. Fighting. Kind

37:48

of medieval. This is like no family

37:50

fairytale. kind of medieval. And as requested

37:52

by the nice people that I B

37:54

m they made this game a very

37:56

designed with replay ability in mind so

37:59

there's a point. System that's you know,

38:01

rewarding the player for performing all the possible

38:03

positive actions. and a mobile become a standard

38:05

for Sierra games. There are lots of lots

38:07

of death for the point where it feels

38:09

like finding all of the the deaths is

38:11

kind of a met a game in and

38:13

of itself because a lot of them verge

38:16

on Easter eggs. A lot of that you're

38:18

going to find naturally. but I'd that there's

38:20

a reason why there are so many you

38:22

to compilations of here all the king's quest,

38:24

one death and here all the kinks was

38:26

to death. People loved trying to find every

38:28

way in which the main. Character could

38:30

die. He. And that's often

38:33

cited as sort of a

38:35

criticism of Sierra Games. I

38:37

don't mind, Death. So much of

38:39

with modern adventure games. I prefer if there's

38:41

like an auto save just before you die

38:43

said that you don't lose a whole bunch

38:45

of progress. On. But.

38:47

I don't know I did that. The seer idea of

38:49

trying to make funny. That's I guess this is so

38:52

ingrained in me that. I

38:54

think it's great. Where I

38:56

sort of draw the line and I am

38:58

sure we'll get into. This is where you

39:00

can get into unwinnable scenarios. That.

39:02

You don't know where unwinnable scenarios

39:05

until possibly hours later. Or.

39:07

Ever. But that's it. That's another story

39:09

that was a real pet peeve of

39:11

of Mister Run Gilbert who sought to

39:13

eliminate that from every feature adventure game

39:16

but I feel like is so important.

39:18

Context is that. Video. Games

39:20

had a much more adversarial relationship with the

39:22

player. At that time there was a thought

39:24

like all i'm going to conquer this game

39:26

or Games would openly boast about how difficult

39:28

they were on the box it that was

39:31

the are we are in and I'm like

39:33

economically that does make sense because if you're

39:35

buying. A game that with they

39:37

cost one hundred fifty dollars. for your

39:39

four thousand dollar computer, you don't want

39:41

to blaze through Kings Quest one in

39:43

an afternoon, so I feel like. They.

39:46

Were making these games which you know a

39:48

long play of. Kings Quest one is not

39:50

that long but it was a very expensive

39:52

game so they're building in these ways to

39:54

make. You. Want

39:57

to go through it again and again? and you know,

39:59

try to figure. The puddle the and avoid the

40:01

death of everything like that. And the. To.

40:04

To catch a counterpoint to that argument. I've talked to

40:06

on Gilbert a few times that I know you've talked

40:08

him as well Matt. He.

40:11

He has claimed like all, like even in the

40:13

eighties when we got mad at a computer game,

40:15

we we always had something better to do so

40:17

that that's a counterpoint to that argument where it's

40:19

like well i guess there was three channels and

40:21

you know was newspapers and stuff but. The.

40:24

The city got you. Go back to the of hard video

40:26

game he played over and over again. But run Gilbert has

40:28

no we we we get mad and then just walk away

40:30

even if we you had a a four thousand dollar computer

40:32

in our home. Well I

40:34

think you know a context is is important

40:36

to hear. Like now, I have almost no

40:39

patience for this kind of nonsense. but you

40:41

know back then when it was. You.

40:43

Know here Matt, this is the game you're

40:45

gonna get in, you know? and this is

40:47

it. Until Christmas six months from now. Like.

40:50

That was your game. And

40:52

so that the you know sort of by necessity

40:54

you had a i think a little bit more

40:56

patience butter. Or

40:58

yeah, Yeah. Me the economy was different.

41:01

their away fewer video games, there were no steam

41:03

sales. Were you buy things by the dozens you'll

41:05

never play? Ah, having a game was it was

41:07

sort sort of like you are committed to

41:09

something for a while for a very long

41:11

time. but now there's just there's frankly too

41:13

many games and we don't have time for

41:15

them. Run your agrees. Also older than I

41:17

was in the eighties and I'm I know

41:19

that he had better things to do. I

41:21

don't know that I did. You know it's just

41:24

Settle. Has ever most children did it. which is

41:26

why I think a lot of the biggest fans

41:28

of these games are. Found them when they

41:30

were kids because they had time to sit

41:33

with them and become obsessed with them and

41:35

try to find everything in them. So yeah,

41:37

lots of death in this game. There's wolves

41:40

in which is and giants in huge birds

41:42

just swarming around the screen, popping in at

41:44

random and the ready to and your life

41:46

if we get too close. But.

41:49

Ah, this game also introduce people

41:51

are most people to Roberta Williams

41:53

unique sense of puzzle design which

41:56

is very very polarizing. It's always

41:58

inventive are at all. Then

42:00

charmingly cruel, And whenever you

42:02

feel whenever there's a death.

42:05

The. Game lately marks you again. Going

42:07

back to that adversarial relationship thing I

42:09

mentioned earlier. there's always a little sarcastic

42:11

pine they're they're kind of Matthew Little

42:13

I think to try to motivate you

42:15

to jump back in play gonna release

42:18

to make you laugh whenever it happens.

42:20

The I would add to a lot

42:22

of that Roberta his said comes from

42:24

her experience. Playing. Colossal Cave

42:26

Where where that game. Has

42:28

random deaths. It has unwinnable

42:30

scenarios, and so a lot

42:32

of you know. Like to

42:35

in to look at just Kings Quest in

42:37

isolation seems a little bit inexplicable or inexplicable.

42:39

but when you look at okay she was

42:42

playing Colossal Cave and. For. Whatever reason

42:44

that have these weird things going on and. For.

42:46

Whatever reason, she just really like that. Or

42:50

that that's where are all you know? At least some

42:52

of this stuff comes from. And in regard

42:54

to the sort of illogical puzzles which

42:56

is this, your become a trademark of these

42:58

early Sierra games. If you read that digital

43:01

and agrarian article, it contrasts Year and

43:03

Lucasarts by saying that Lucasarts had a lot

43:05

of play testers and that was one

43:07

of the big element of their process. and

43:09

see or that wasn't really a consideration

43:11

so a noisy know that the designer would

43:14

make the game as it is perfectly perfectly

43:16

easy and really not have that. That

43:18

big. Step at a process where other people

43:21

played it and go, what the hell's going on

43:23

with this? Yeah, that is a great point. I

43:25

mean the people who made the game know how

43:27

to play it and you don't want to take

43:29

their word for it a before you ship it

43:32

it. In many cases they did. Ah, I guess

43:34

we should unfairly singled out the worst puzzle and

43:36

eat of games are talking about And what is

43:38

often cited as the worst puzzle in this game

43:40

is the rumble. Still to can puzzle where if

43:43

you know the classic story of rubble silk in.

43:45

You. Have to guess his name on it.

43:48

In this case. I believe in a

43:50

fairy tales you have to say his

43:52

name backwards are spelled backwards. How does

43:54

ago. I think the original

43:56

fairytale was just. You can. Guess

43:58

my name? Yeah, I

44:00

think raiders they might be did the simple

44:03

as that in this version. The I guess

44:05

in this version the twist is you have

44:07

to guess his name backwards but it's not

44:10

a matter of spelling rebel still skyn backwards

44:12

as the logic behind this is you in

44:14

order to figure out you write out the

44:16

alphabet. And. Then you're right out the off that a reverse

44:18

under that. And. You basically. Have.

44:21

To spell Rupal Still Skyn with the

44:23

characters place in the reverse alphabet for

44:25

every letter of Rumble Still Skin And

44:28

the the biggest flaw that puzzle is

44:30

not just the logic of the backwards

44:32

alphabet is the fact that at least

44:35

initially. They. Spelled rumple still

44:37

can incorrectly or at least in a

44:39

way that wasn't very calm and so

44:41

I always see this called out as

44:44

one of the hardest and most you

44:46

know. You. Have to be a

44:48

psychic and read the developer. brain. Puzzles

44:50

gets really weird and then I think

44:52

they also. I think the

44:54

the only. Real. Hint A

44:56

Correct me if I'm wrong. There's like a piece

44:59

of paper in the which is Gingerbread House

45:01

that says something like you know somebody the fact

45:03

of you need to. Think about

45:05

it backwards which and on or how you

45:07

connect that to. The. Is something like

45:09

that? I my memories from know that. that's it right?

45:11

Sometimes it's good to think backwards. I am I paraphrase

45:14

address so you have to know. Okay, they're going to

45:16

be something in this game. Are you gonna think backwards

45:18

and I think that it's. It's still

45:20

a bit of abstruse, but you don't you

45:22

try Guess is it? I think it's reasonable

45:24

that you might type his name in backwards

45:26

and then you're going to find a least

45:28

in the this original version of the game

45:30

that this is not going to work. When

45:33

they did our of eg a story about

45:35

is a hi rez eg a remake of

45:37

years later they actually allowed the are just

45:39

plain backwards name but it's just inconceivable that

45:41

I'm somebody would have known. That.

45:43

There are on the right track at all. I'm. So.

45:47

It's a bit the to disagree. I think

45:49

they give you a hint that like you

45:51

know close but but no cigar I'm for

45:53

it's it's just that I think it's bullshit

45:55

the eat it is now to I just.

45:58

A tiny bit to their credit at the. Very

46:00

least if you gets his name wrong three

46:02

times he gives you a key that's like

46:04

an alternate solution that doesn't give you as

46:06

many points and you can still finish the

46:09

game. So technically you don't have to solve

46:11

the full of effort. it's the yeah, it's

46:13

double. If the silly someone realized this might

46:15

be too difficult and we might get some

46:17

phone calls. Although they got think they were

46:20

stick something phone calls back then for hims

46:22

and things like that I know they were

46:24

selling hint books that they must have figure

46:26

that out real early. I was looking at

46:28

the old The Mystery House magazine. Ads for

46:31

ordering the game and it looked like

46:33

you can call them and our I

46:35

was reading articles saying people would call

46:37

can or a bird at home. And

46:39

as for hims so fit at least

46:41

back then, they were willing to be

46:44

more forthcoming with his. A

47:45

big element of this game. this is

47:48

where our math gonna jump in and

47:50

be the authority is our and G

47:52

which is something you normally don't want

47:54

it adventure games that this is no

47:56

exception because a lot of the Rnc

47:58

based events will hurt. you and a

48:01

lot of them are necessary but these

48:06

things are random at least at first and you

48:08

might miss a lot of these things you can

48:11

be on a screen and that's where the wolf

48:13

spawns in and you can't get away in time

48:15

etc etc but as

48:17

a speedrunner of this game Matt you've had

48:19

to deal with the nightmare of RNG can you

48:22

explain to our listeners what that entails? Yeah

48:25

sure so actually RNG becomes a

48:27

feature of I'd honestly

48:29

say most Sierra games period but

48:31

especially the King's Quest games in

48:33

every King's Quest game there's

48:36

some amount of RNG for

48:38

whatever reason who knows. But

48:41

yeah there's a few things in the

48:43

speedrun that are interesting. There's

48:45

a fairy that can show up that

48:47

has and I'm going to sort

48:50

of round the RNG

48:52

estimates here because one thing that they did

48:54

instead of generating

48:57

like a number from

48:59

say 1 to 250 or something

49:01

they did 0 to 250 so all the possibilities

49:03

are out of 251 and

49:05

the percentages get screwy. But

49:08

it looks fine in the code but

49:11

there's an elf that can – let's see oh no

49:13

let's talk about the fairy. There's a fairy that can

49:15

show up and give you a blessing which will

49:18

protect you which seems helpful casually and

49:20

is. That's like a 50-50 chance of

49:23

that on some of the screens but

49:25

if you hit that it just ends up slowing you

49:27

down because you have to dismiss the

49:29

text boxes and make them go away

49:32

and then keep going with your run.

49:35

There's the eagle which is about a 50-50 chance.

49:37

There's one screen where you have to catch a

49:39

ride on the eagle to get over

49:42

to a little island not

49:44

really an island but kind of an island where

49:47

there's a mushroom that you need to get. These games are weird. There's

49:49

all sorts of weird stuff that you need to get. There's

49:52

a – the most infuriating one

49:55

is the cave dwarf who

49:57

on a certain part of walking up

49:59

some – Stairs has a

50:01

60% chance of appearing and

50:05

What will happen is that if he

50:07

catches you he will take

50:09

one of your treasures if you have any of

50:11

them and Depending on what

50:13

that is and what he grabs you might not

50:15

be able to finish the game So

50:18

those three treasures that you know You're supposed to

50:20

be grabbing and bringing back if he takes one

50:22

of those You cannot get them

50:24

back and you just cannot finish If

50:27

you have like another one of the trinkets like there's a

50:29

gem Sorry, no,

50:31

there's like a golden egg and then

50:33

there's oh gosh What is there

50:35

there's yeah, there's like a bag of gems and

50:37

he might steal that and you might be okay

50:39

depending But

50:42

so so there's that and the other the other

50:44

issue I guess for speed runners That

50:47

we haven't really talked about with this is

50:49

that they as much as possible They run

50:51

it on the fast speed and

50:54

so what's interesting with these old

50:56

AGI games is that The

50:58

slower speeds are kind of tied to

51:00

a real-time clock with how fast Graham

51:02

moves But for fastest the way they

51:04

did it was just say well just

51:07

let your machine Go

51:10

as fast as it possibly can and

51:12

so when thing we know when the

51:14

games came out That was fine enough,

51:16

right? But as time went on computers

51:18

went you know got faster within

51:20

like even a few years you'd be

51:23

moving instantly at those speeds Which

51:25

creative, you know problems for that So what speed runners

51:27

try to do is like basically

51:30

ping pong across the screens and across

51:32

the map and the most efficient ways

51:36

Possible and so so

51:38

there's that yeah, so the RNG can be Kind

51:41

of goofy to deal with though One

51:44

of the things in the past couple

51:46

of years that they've done is to

51:48

route out that as much as possible

51:50

So now they they only really have

51:52

to deal with the the cave

51:54

dwarf And if you want I can talk

51:57

about about why that is but

51:59

didn't know if you wanted to say anything else on that. Oh,

52:02

no, I was just wanting some more information

52:04

about the RNG and how it affects not

52:06

just speed runners, but people looking to just

52:08

finish the game. Because a lot,

52:10

again, there's a lot of random moments in this

52:13

game and not a lot of

52:15

player feedback to let you know, like, oh, you

52:17

shouldn't be here now, or, you know, come back

52:19

here later with this sort of item and so

52:21

on. Or even the opposite

52:23

message, like there's a few screens where a wizard

52:26

can show up, and on those screens he

52:28

has a 73% chance of showing up, and

52:32

he can, you know, like freeze you. And

52:35

you might think, oh, well, I guess I just don't go

52:37

on that screen. And it doesn't

52:40

really, like, matter, you know? He's just

52:42

a sort of an annoyance. And

52:45

you might, you know, in other words, you might get the

52:47

wrong message, you know, from

52:49

going on there. Like, you know, no,

52:51

it is actually fine to go on

52:53

that screen. It's just, you rolled

52:55

the dice wrong, which seems a bit

52:57

unfair. And there's another situation

53:00

where, if you

53:02

want full points, you have to

53:04

go into a witch's gingerbread house

53:06

and be there when she's not

53:08

there. And that gets

53:10

complicated as to whether she's in the house or

53:12

not the house. And again, like

53:14

you said, there's like, there's no real

53:17

player feedback. You just have to try

53:19

it and like go back

53:21

to screens where you've already been on them until

53:25

something different happens. So

53:27

yes, we have RNG is a big issue. And

53:29

Dan, you can speak to this. The fact that

53:32

you kind of have to play this like an

53:34

action game in an awkward way. The

53:36

controls are awkward, but how

53:39

precise you are with them matters. And

53:41

you often have to have commands at the

53:43

ready to do certain timing-based objectives. Right, that's

53:45

just it, sort of typing in command and

53:47

then waiting for the right moment and then

53:49

hitting the enter button, you know, which is

53:52

not something that you would be used to

53:54

for most of the previous games

53:56

in this genre, right? Certainly

53:58

text it. of the pure

54:01

text adventure interactive fiction type games

54:04

did not run on a real time clock. Most

54:06

of them were sort of turn based, so there

54:08

was no real kind of time pressure. And the same

54:10

is true for a lot of these early Sierra games like

54:13

The Wizard and the Princess. But this one, yeah, you kind

54:15

of have to queue it up. I'm

54:18

thinking specifically of Graham murders someone

54:21

in this game. He breaks into the witch's home.

54:23

He hides in her bedroom. And then you type

54:25

in the command push witch. And then you walk

54:27

over to her. And you hit Enter. And he

54:30

pushes her into the oven like in Hansel

54:32

and Gretel. But just the text

54:34

box that pops up says, Graham whatever sneaks up

54:36

behind the witch and bravely pushes her into the

54:38

oven. I think the better word

54:40

would be cravently. But it's just sort of

54:43

a really cold moment. That's an unreliable narrator,

54:45

I think, in the West. We

54:47

view his actions differently on retronauts. So

54:51

I want to point out all of these

54:53

weird qualities of the game, not to say

54:55

like, oh, the developers were dumb or they

54:57

were ignorant or whatever. It's just interesting to

54:59

see how different this is from what

55:01

will become the standard,

55:03

the default model of the adventure game,

55:06

the point and click model. This is

55:09

trying something different, something that would not

55:11

really last outside of this, like, let's

55:14

say, five or six year bubble, primarily

55:16

at Sierra. And Sierra would release their

55:18

own remake of this game in 1990.

55:21

And this is part of a short-lived wave

55:24

of remakes of all of

55:26

the initial titles in their Quest series,

55:28

like Space Quest and Police Quest and

55:30

Quest for Glory. They were doing these

55:32

remakes. It seemed that

55:34

people at the time didn't like this very

55:36

much. And it looks fine to me. I

55:39

mean, looking at the YouTube playthroughs, it looks like

55:41

a fun experience, a nicely retouched experience. But Matt,

55:43

you were saying in the notes here that the

55:46

context of the release is important because this was

55:48

put out at the same time as

55:50

King's Quest V, a graphically

55:52

lush and complex experience compared

55:55

to a remade

55:57

game from 1984. Yes.

56:00

So I put in a quote there from,

56:02

there's an excellent book about the history of

56:04

Sierra called The Sierra

56:06

Adventure by Sean Mills. And

56:09

like the way that he explains it, King's

56:12

Quest V and the SCI

56:15

remake of King's Quest I, they came out

56:17

within a few weeks of each other. So

56:19

King's Quest V had cutting-edge,

56:21

256-color graphics, hand-drawn backgrounds,

56:23

this new mouse interface,

56:26

and then the remake

56:28

had antiquated, 16-color EGA

56:30

graphics and typing interface. And so

56:32

if you're at the store, you're

56:35

looking at both of these because they came out at

56:37

the same time, and you can only afford one, it's

56:39

sort of a no-brainer which one you're going to buy.

56:42

Yeah, I mean if you're looking back at it now, now

56:45

the graphics have advanced far beyond what we're

56:47

looking at back then. The remake

56:49

is very charming. I love the dithered

56:52

EGA graphics. It's a very different look

56:54

than the initial release, but I believe

56:56

– I love it too. I think it's

56:59

a great game. And I think that is playable in

57:01

the whatever compilation you end up

57:03

buying from Steam or GOG. I believe that

57:05

is included in there. And Dan, you were

57:07

saying in the notes here that they were

57:09

at least kind enough to let you mail

57:11

in your original game to get

57:13

a voucher or to get some money off

57:15

of this remake, which just

57:18

showed how important their relationship with their

57:20

fans was. These companies were

57:22

still small, and they still relied on

57:24

repeat business. It's kind of

57:26

interesting. You can imagine this like upgrading

57:28

your PS4 game to the PS5 version.

57:31

In most

57:33

cases, you'd be getting sort of a

57:35

game with superior graphical rendering and all this kind of

57:37

stuff. Back

57:39

then, these were two very different

57:42

games. They were built on the same – everything

57:44

was the same underneath in terms of the

57:47

story and the setting and most of the

57:49

puzzles, but they looked totally different. And

57:51

here at the time assumed that, well, if you

57:54

could get this new, better version, you don't want

57:56

your crappy, old, original version anymore, so you take

57:58

your disc one of your – original

58:01

King's Quest or rip off

58:03

the front page of your manual and send them 20

58:06

bucks and you get the upgraded

58:08

version which is kind of an

58:10

interesting model right and

58:12

they did this for a few of their remakes

58:14

in their adventure game series. Yeah it wasn't

58:17

a long-lasting phenomenon for Sierra but I would

58:19

have liked to see them do more but

58:21

as it stands there's basically one remake for

58:23

all of the initial titles in

58:26

the in the Quest series of games

58:29

and there's another remake made by fans 23 years

58:31

ago near 2001 a little group called AGD Interactive

58:35

made a VGA I believe

58:38

remake of King's Quest 1

58:40

with full voice acting and

58:43

including Graham's original voice actor Josh Mandel.

58:45

If you look up King's

58:47

Quest remake long play on YouTube you'll end

58:50

up finding this before you find the legit

58:52

remake by Sierra but the work that went

58:54

into this was very very impressive. I personally

58:56

have not played it but it's

58:59

a real like labor of love it looks

59:01

like. Yeah it's really good AGD Interactive does

59:03

some great work I'd even want to shout

59:05

out their remake of King's Quest 2

59:08

even though and I know it's not what we're

59:10

talking about but really recommend

59:12

that when they took like a real barebone

59:14

story and actually fleshed it out and made

59:16

it this big like

59:18

coherent thing out of what was

59:20

just paper thin kind of fairy

59:23

tales but the King's Quest

59:25

1 remake is good but it's pretty much

59:27

like a one-for-one remake of what that game

59:30

was but then as

59:32

time went on they started like adding you know

59:35

extra scenes and lore to it in

59:38

a lovingly and in a loving way in a

59:40

good way than that worked as well. I was

59:42

very impressed by what I had seen. Oh Dan.

59:44

Yeah I was just gonna say it's great and

59:46

if you're if you'd like to go

59:48

back and look at these games from a historical perspective

59:50

of course it's important to go

59:52

to the official releases but if you're just kind of

59:55

you know you want to get the story and you

59:57

want to go back and play these Games from,

59:59

you know King's. Was one on. I

1:00:01

would definitely recommend the A Ged versions.

1:00:03

They made Kings Quest one two and

1:00:05

three on and they're terrific there in

1:00:07

the style of the later on in

1:00:09

a. Pinch. Was five and six

1:00:12

and so they're They're excellent way says and

1:00:14

before of on Hanks was five. I didn't

1:00:16

want to mention that I the reimagine ing

1:00:18

of the series from the mid twenty times

1:00:20

because if you typing Kings Quest on the

1:00:23

steam or gog this is this my come

1:00:25

up first and you might be confused by

1:00:27

this but in case you forgot, at one

1:00:29

point Telltale acquired the rights to Kings Quest

1:00:31

from Activision. They were going to make these

1:00:33

games. They've found

1:00:36

a lot more profit from you know,

1:00:38

making games based on popular newer I

1:00:40

P. So a developer called The

1:00:42

Are Gentlemen made an episodic Kings for

1:00:45

series in the mid Twenty Ten. I

1:00:47

only played the first chapter, but this

1:00:49

is at a time in which Telltale

1:00:51

the engine was eating horribly and a

1:00:54

in Twenty Fifteen at least. it was

1:00:56

a very pretty adventure game, but it

1:00:58

was following the Telltale model. Or

1:01:01

so. your mileage may vary on whether or

1:01:03

not you like that style of game, but

1:01:05

I was impressed and not knowing a lot

1:01:07

of the lore of these games and annoying

1:01:10

a lot of the references they seem to

1:01:12

be made for fans. He.

1:01:14

I played it, I enjoyed it over

1:01:16

all. Ah, I would

1:01:18

just say that with each chapter they

1:01:20

tried sort of a slightly different style.

1:01:23

And. Just how it happens to shake

1:01:25

out. I think that the. Odd.

1:01:27

Number Two chapters one, three, and five

1:01:29

are better than two and four, but

1:01:31

that she said they tried doing something

1:01:33

different each chapter. They do

1:01:35

some really interesting things to do, some kind

1:01:37

of a reconceptualization. have some of the earlier

1:01:40

are in the characters in the earlier games,

1:01:42

the events from the earlier games on you

1:01:44

you might like than you might find. It's

1:01:46

a little bit too much of the our

1:01:48

the Star Wars kind of sequels and prequels

1:01:50

things are. They try to connect everything in

1:01:52

ways that might not needed to be connected,

1:01:54

but I'm in terms of again design perspective.

1:01:57

I think it's a pretty well done game

1:01:59

and it's got. For avoid playing

1:02:01

an elderly ten grams hot as those

1:02:03

are The narrator have an eighteen does

1:02:05

refugia. Yeah. He's great.

1:02:08

Real star power our Wallace Shawn

1:02:10

as least in the first episode

1:02:12

of for that episodic series and

1:02:14

as other Williams as well. I

1:02:17

don't plan to have minor character.

1:02:20

Yeah I am and like the King's Cross compilation I

1:02:22

it is usually on sale for pretty cheap. You can

1:02:24

usually get the whole series roger like fifteen bucks so

1:02:26

I thought it was good. I actually go back and

1:02:29

play the rest but I reviewed the first chapter and

1:02:31

things were moving very fast and I never got around

1:02:33

to the other ones but it seemed like a like

1:02:35

there's a lot a lot behind that's I'm glad to

1:02:37

hear that both of you like that is it? Never

1:03:05

going to move on to Kings Quest

1:03:07

Five so we're skipping ahead. way way

1:03:09

forward in time off only six years

1:03:11

but still. a lot has happened in

1:03:13

the world. A computer gaming and this

1:03:15

game originally released in November of Ninety

1:03:17

Ninety. And because I may Lucasarts weirdo

1:03:19

I have to put this of my

1:03:21

Lucasarts timeline. so this game as out

1:03:23

or routes right around the same time

1:03:25

as Secret of Monkey Island. So we

1:03:27

see that game coming out in sort

1:03:29

of drawing a line in the sand

1:03:31

saying adventure game should be like this

1:03:34

and we have. Kings Quest Five doing

1:03:36

its own thing but also going with

1:03:38

the times and having a pudding click

1:03:40

style or interface were got a as

1:03:42

opposed to the the old type in

1:03:44

the verb you want to do or

1:03:46

interface and in terms of the plot

1:03:48

were backed having can grammars the protagonist

1:03:50

he was a protectionist of or three

1:03:52

or four and he's out on a

1:03:54

walk. something's going on I'd i'd better

1:03:56

get a get cigarettes or something but

1:03:59

while he's gone. The. Evil Wizard

1:04:01

shows up. Spirits his

1:04:03

castle away and he has to go

1:04:05

to surrender. He's gotta be friend. A

1:04:07

really irritating l. And. He's got

1:04:10

to confront more to act to get his castle back. And

1:04:12

yes, Like. I said earlier in the

1:04:14

spot as it does take place in the

1:04:16

same setting as the Wizard in the Princess

1:04:18

to the point where you find the skeleton

1:04:20

of the protagonists of that game. For whatever

1:04:22

reason he didn't make it that that is

1:04:24

those are the stakes in things was five

1:04:26

and A. Most people know the the V

1:04:28

tabor's if you look up a play throughs

1:04:30

if you're looking of up videos about this

1:04:32

game but apparently there was an easy A

1:04:34

version of Danny pointed this out in the

1:04:36

notes. It. Doesn't look as nice as

1:04:38

the Lucasarts are easier games that Mark for.

1:04:40

I did the art for it. I think

1:04:43

it. Is probably not worth

1:04:45

going in and looking up or that britain playing

1:04:47

of that version just for the aesthetics of its

1:04:49

on both their am glad that it was available

1:04:51

to more people. In. General, it seems

1:04:53

like that's how Sierra treated their their

1:04:55

eg. A games and. I. Believe

1:04:58

it's the case that very seldom the

1:05:00

day like go when. And. Actually

1:05:02

make a dedicated beat are sorry eg.

1:05:04

a version, they just sort of put

1:05:06

it through some sort algorithm are some

1:05:08

sort of filter and. Yet. That's

1:05:10

fine and shouted out the door

1:05:12

interesting yeah, I believe at this

1:05:14

time. Lucasarts. Was leading with

1:05:17

you to A and then releasing a

1:05:19

Vj later. That was usually the way

1:05:21

they did things. But yes, this this

1:05:23

game. It feels more like a temporary

1:05:25

venture game if you're used to the

1:05:27

point like interface we were. We were

1:05:29

joking about this before the recording v.

1:05:31

The box art for the first release

1:05:33

is ludicrous. It. It does feel like

1:05:35

marketing was in charge of this will of course

1:05:38

they were because it was the packaging but it

1:05:40

looks like they had no idea what this game

1:05:42

actually wasn't a based the based the packaging around

1:05:44

ten grams had a then what would your thoughts

1:05:46

on this what's going on under cover I think

1:05:48

that someone may have was the intro of the

1:05:51

game and thought that they were looking at a

1:05:53

peter Pan story and is it is a man

1:05:55

and he's flying and he's got a are absurd

1:05:57

appointee top of the feather and so they some

1:05:59

others. Peter Pan. So if you look

1:06:01

at this are box art. I'm. Known

1:06:04

for some other are through the word

1:06:06

marked on the logo by looks pretty

1:06:08

crappy. was kind of a clip art

1:06:10

but aren't but yet you see I

1:06:13

can graham holding a the hands of

1:06:15

a of a child who is are

1:06:17

internally another child and he is flying

1:06:19

away with other people's children. we know

1:06:21

at this point in the series watching

1:06:24

Grams children. Look. Like and it is

1:06:26

not. If. These are not his

1:06:28

children. I'm in. It looks like they

1:06:30

put i'm. Wendy and Michael

1:06:32

and Peter from Peter Pan and I'm

1:06:34

sorry at a John rather up with

1:06:37

a with Graham and the Peter Off

1:06:39

holding these shown there's even a dog

1:06:41

or nanny and their. Friends Susie

1:06:43

from next door. There's an additional girl there and

1:06:46

it looks like that was the the concept for

1:06:48

this off artwork and so on. A It's not

1:06:50

surprising that ended up changing it to this or.

1:06:53

That sort of the iconic beautiful batteries

1:06:55

getting enough the snowy cliff I'm looking

1:06:57

out into the castle. Or

1:06:59

in there are not Eight I do

1:07:01

have is a soft spot for the

1:07:03

original art because that's the box that

1:07:05

that we had. But I do acknowledge

1:07:07

that looking at it objectively as a

1:07:09

ah it's it's ridiculous. I think that

1:07:12

they're they're idea I think was like

1:07:14

hey bring the whole family on an

1:07:16

adventure but it just sorta looks like

1:07:18

grams stealing your can assist so he

1:07:20

he's like he has the piper. But

1:07:22

yes point a family into the world's

1:07:24

of as it's or any. I already

1:07:26

forgot the name of this this world

1:07:29

year. yes. Ended up. The important thing

1:07:31

about the box though he is that Cedric is

1:07:33

escaping the world you have. We have to track

1:07:35

him down. He cannot enter our world. I won't

1:07:37

let that happen because that's the thing I know

1:07:39

most about this game with. we could talk about

1:07:41

him and a bit but like with a lot

1:07:43

of adventure games or the time. This.

1:07:45

Started as a dispersion and then

1:07:48

a year later we get the

1:07:50

the talkie version which was you

1:07:52

they would all these games talkies

1:07:54

like the old movies when they

1:07:56

would become movies Wizard sync sound

1:07:59

well. That's what happened here in

1:08:01

at this time I'll I was looking up

1:08:03

to see how much a Cd rom drive

1:08:05

cost. In. That nothing any

1:08:07

to the around three hundred a foreigner

1:08:09

dollars in that year's money. So a

1:08:12

very pricey thing to buy. Very pricey

1:08:14

accessory to buy. So. When.

1:08:16

You bought this thing you needed releases to

1:08:19

justify the purchase of this object. which is

1:08:21

why Lucasarts sincere a said hey, look we

1:08:23

put this game on a Cd. It looks

1:08:25

the same, but we have a lot of

1:08:28

actors. In this case, no actors. And

1:08:31

the a lot of jokes are made with bad.

1:08:33

Was I going to go? They got the janitor

1:08:35

to record this in the case or thinks was

1:08:38

five. It's it's it's about half true. Yeah.

1:08:40

They they did grab you know,

1:08:42

employees around the office and. I.

1:08:45

Meet To their credit the my understanding is they

1:08:47

did at least like hold auditions meet you know

1:08:49

and like they tried not to. Be.

1:08:52

Too awful about it, but you can tell it's.

1:08:54

It's people from around the office in over your

1:08:57

but again to defend it a little bit. They're.

1:08:59

Thinking was we don't know.

1:09:02

If. Hiring a Hollywood Actors

1:09:04

is going. To make back

1:09:06

the expense of doing that so like we

1:09:08

don't know if that's going to pan out

1:09:10

or not. So it's. Not. Risk it.

1:09:14

But it is. Looking back, you know some of

1:09:16

the wine reads are pretty unintentionally hilarious. Yeah, a

1:09:18

goddamn this is that the narrator. I don't know

1:09:20

who he is. I have a lot of affection

1:09:22

for the narrators voice. I'm and I'm I'd I'd

1:09:25

love to hear if you have any more information

1:09:27

but there was a I think there was a

1:09:29

Am A at one point with with Ted Williams

1:09:31

or someone asked armed with that a guy from

1:09:33

around the office and and can Williams's I know

1:09:36

if is user you must have been a a

1:09:38

professional. narrator is something I'm if you look up

1:09:40

his name on it on I didn't you don't

1:09:42

find this guy. Elsewhere on she's

1:09:44

got a really interesting. I'm

1:09:47

sound or she's there. she's got some

1:09:49

articulations him. What is it? Is it?

1:09:51

Something? might you might even be that

1:09:53

may be missing since either have a

1:09:55

bit about Power Defamation and it gives

1:09:57

him a very warm, kind comfortable sound.

1:10:00

And I have a lot of affection

1:10:02

for this guy and have no idea

1:10:04

who he is. Your a new great

1:10:06

I would also a shoutout. Josh Mandela

1:10:08

did a wonderful job as Graham. You

1:10:11

know, it's pretty iconic voice at this

1:10:13

point, but. The. Rest of them sort of.

1:10:16

A you know who consider their yeah I mean

1:10:18

I I would. I tried to be too cruel

1:10:20

because like with the toy, Beta Kings was one.

1:10:23

They're. Just figuring this out for the first time

1:10:25

and you're right about that man. A higher A

1:10:27

voice actors is Not the standard. Lucas.

1:10:29

Film Games Lucasarts. They were doing that because

1:10:31

they had the Hollywood connection to the wall.

1:10:33

the we can you voice actors of course

1:10:36

like we have connections with. Let's bring him

1:10:38

in the Sierras in a different location entirely

1:10:40

with different connections entirely so I can see

1:10:42

why. Pay the Surfers talkie. Let's just keep

1:10:44

this to us and see where this goes.

1:10:47

Which is why in the next Inquest game

1:10:49

they get Robbie Benson a key the Beast

1:10:51

or Beauty of the Beast and I think

1:10:53

he even a cover says featuring Robbie Benson.

1:10:55

Get it They would get you know lots

1:10:57

of Hollywood talent from. That point

1:11:00

onward. For. Sure, But. I

1:11:02

think at this point we have to

1:11:04

address or cedric which I okay. So

1:11:06

then in the notes you put he

1:11:08

is the jar jar of his time

1:11:10

and that's the perfect way. To.

1:11:12

Put A because he was. He was a

1:11:15

character intended to bring light into our hearts

1:11:17

and to make us laugh and think and

1:11:19

I built to be a very charming character.

1:11:21

The execution. Feals. Utterly and I

1:11:23

but I've read as the know some thoughts

1:11:26

from the voice actor. In his thoughts are

1:11:28

basically this is what I was asked to

1:11:30

do and I don't like it either. So

1:11:32

but when you play this game, Ah, Cedric.

1:11:35

Kind us out. My my wife said he

1:11:37

sounds like Mrs. Dell fire them. That's a

1:11:39

great comparison to make. Ah, but he'd only

1:11:41

has an annoying voice. He's also an annoying

1:11:43

creature who schools you are in the notes.

1:11:45

Some as you said, kind of racist. Maybe

1:11:47

dance that that he's at. He's the he's

1:11:49

He's very judge he said Rick. In other

1:11:51

words, I wasn't around the gypsies grandma don't

1:11:54

trust them and that's not yet Me that

1:11:56

we and twenty twenty four would refer to

1:11:58

the Roma people, but that us. I'm

1:12:01

it's not just the the boys so we gotta

1:12:03

falsetto with you not heard my i'd recommend you

1:12:05

will come up so of people in right I

1:12:07

would say it's i'm children probably are are fine

1:12:09

with this up it's not as a great video

1:12:11

that I think that tells about in which he

1:12:14

said the said the same thing that the eyes

1:12:16

of top of the time which I was in

1:12:18

bother me i was a kid when i play

1:12:20

this arms but it's not just a full set

1:12:22

of is also some strange of. Line.

1:12:24

Delivery I'm he of the the line a

1:12:26

lookout graham a poisonous snake. I'm not going

1:12:29

to do the fall set of honest most

1:12:31

of us for being that one would have

1:12:33

emphasized the word snake right but he made

1:12:35

a choice. emphasize the for a syllable of

1:12:37

the were poisonous and and it's one of

1:12:39

these are just kind of iconic. Line read.

1:12:42

Yeah. There's the to disorders. Defend Cedric

1:12:44

a little bit. Not not the xenophobia

1:12:46

we want to set an that, but

1:12:48

I'm. So the the

1:12:50

idea or least according to Richard Aronson

1:12:53

who was that the voice actor was

1:12:55

that Cedric was supposed to be. Sort.

1:12:58

Of a guide for the kids who

1:13:00

played the game and kids tended to

1:13:02

love Cedric and adults tended to roll

1:13:04

their eyes. Are you know I get

1:13:06

it? Been my experience plane this first.

1:13:08

I had the floppy version. And.

1:13:11

So we didn't have the voice acting in

1:13:13

that and so I didn't. Have.

1:13:15

The hate that people have for

1:13:17

cedric though after hearing and I

1:13:19

I I get it. And

1:13:22

Cedric also has. A

1:13:25

sort of an issue where he'll give

1:13:27

you a couple with hints at the

1:13:29

beginning of the game but then after

1:13:31

that just doesn't do anything useful in

1:13:33

till the end where he accidentally. Saves.

1:13:36

Grams Life by dying. I'm from

1:13:38

butter and even does that on

1:13:40

accident. But die a hero doesn't

1:13:42

do anything useful and and doesn't

1:13:45

help you out in in any

1:13:47

way. So I get that. On

1:13:50

the other hand at the a lot of

1:13:52

this cedric eight is sort of over the

1:13:54

top. kind of kind of like with George

1:13:56

are where it's possible to like. okay. George

1:13:59

or socks. Getting late to can we

1:14:01

can we move on to something now?

1:14:03

Yeah it got some time it gets

1:14:05

to that level but I'm so I

1:14:08

don't know I get where that what

1:14:10

they were trying to do with Cedric.

1:14:12

I also saw understand why. He's.

1:14:14

A little annoying as as well, but.

1:14:17

I'm but there was this gray I put this

1:14:19

in the show notes, but is something that Richard

1:14:21

Aronson. Sort. Of wrote to me. I'm

1:14:24

in response to the fact that even

1:14:26

within like a couple years, you know

1:14:28

it, even people with Sierra were promoting.

1:14:31

Easter. Eggs in Sierra Games for Cedric

1:14:33

was dying and getting hurt. And

1:14:36

and Richard said it. It warmed my heart to

1:14:38

see all those bad things happened to Cedric. The.

1:14:40

Purpose of art is to evoke to

1:14:42

and vulgar and emotional response and people

1:14:45

really had to respond strongly A cedric

1:14:47

for him to suffer so much harm

1:14:49

and response. I. Guess you for everything

1:14:52

else he can say about Cedric. I at

1:14:54

least. Like. That that is

1:14:56

Richards attitude towards his. Yeah.

1:14:58

I feel like man I'm I'm keeping your

1:15:00

the defense by by putting out a lot

1:15:02

of flaws, but I have to assume that

1:15:04

kids probably like this character because I feel

1:15:06

like we're all around the same age based

1:15:08

on our interests and I feel that we

1:15:10

were the ones to say oh George are

1:15:12

staying so he charge are so annoying but

1:15:15

it's I know kids still liked him where

1:15:17

he works the way he was intended to

1:15:19

work on children at least and I assume

1:15:21

in his own way. Cedric did as well.

1:15:23

I think so. there's another as another funny

1:15:26

cedric bit with litter alluded to that was

1:15:28

when he these are. Blocks.

1:15:30

A are a magic ball that the and

1:15:32

and I don't know this is supposed to

1:15:35

be out funny or how they intended it

1:15:37

but lies stone dead on the floor while

1:15:39

the characters celebrate at the end of the

1:15:41

the game for feel good a good five

1:15:43

or ten minutes until someone goes okay cedric

1:15:45

that over there I'm sure we do something

1:15:48

about why on the deck dad and and

1:15:50

and we forget about a minister is just

1:15:52

a funny but I don't know what are

1:15:54

the weather's and tesla not yet. He seems

1:15:56

to have a a at often sick sense

1:15:59

of humor as. The In: In the many

1:16:01

deaths. I think there's a a little sadistic streak

1:16:03

running through them. A that's meant to make you

1:16:05

less pressure. This

1:16:29

game. I will say that it was

1:16:31

ahead of time in terms of moving

1:16:33

forward. Because Lucasfilm games Lucasarts games, they

1:16:35

were still using the whole click on

1:16:37

a verb, click on an object on

1:16:40

the screen interface. This one advances that

1:16:42

to the icon interface which Lucasarts would

1:16:44

arrive at three years later with him

1:16:46

a Max at the Road. But here

1:16:48

you have a variety of icons are

1:16:50

really simplifies things that eliminates the guesswork

1:16:52

that was acquired from previous games. are

1:16:54

you know you had the kind of

1:16:56

guess what they thought the object on

1:16:58

the screen was named. Here it's just

1:17:00

like how many pointy click adventure game works

1:17:02

you just move the mouse around in and

1:17:04

so on. You know how goes. But the

1:17:07

the highlight of this game or what I

1:17:09

will call a interesting puzzles in the when

1:17:11

I sold my life was very much like

1:17:13

Kings Quest was a fairytale because I finished

1:17:15

seventy five percent of the notes and I

1:17:17

and I said that the you guys saying

1:17:20

I'm going to work on can cause five

1:17:22

tomorrow. And. When I woke up the

1:17:24

notes for complete I was like the shoemaker

1:17:26

in my all my all my years shoes

1:17:28

were finished at night by the elves and

1:17:30

that you two are the else in this

1:17:32

case by putting a lot of details about

1:17:34

these things was five puzzles. I don't know.

1:17:36

Who wants to start us off with the

1:17:38

interesting approach to puzzle design in this game?

1:17:41

On, I'll see if he were. It's first of all,

1:17:43

I should make clear for the listeners that I I

1:17:45

love this game. I absolutely have a ton of affection

1:17:47

for it. I loved the time. I still consider to

1:17:50

be one of my kind of. Favorite.

1:17:52

Classic games and yet. The.

1:17:55

Design philosophy of It is not one

1:17:57

that we we consider to be. I've.

1:18:01

I'm all that play a buffer. Modern perspective

1:18:03

is a lot of game design elements that

1:18:06

are poorly age and I just did not

1:18:08

pick up on them at the time is

1:18:10

being objective. the problematic the time it was

1:18:12

just oh yeah I I'm just playing this

1:18:14

game and I have to look up solution.

1:18:16

Sometimes I'm. Nowadays.

1:18:19

You would you notice is there is a

1:18:21

learned by dying philosophy A lot of times

1:18:23

are just a couple of examples would beat

1:18:25

on. You. Have to are given

1:18:27

objects to a are to a

1:18:29

which to. To. Kill

1:18:31

her if this is a on this is a

1:18:33

spoiler warning that is a a genie bottle and

1:18:36

you have to know that if if someone opens

1:18:38

about the genie vote will kill you buy stuff

1:18:40

you into the bottle of the only way you

1:18:42

know that is if you try it yourself and

1:18:44

and died on this a boat with a hole

1:18:46

in it and there's no way to as far

1:18:48

as I'm aware of to get a hint that

1:18:50

the pop boat as a whole etc certainly doesn't

1:18:52

tell you until you get out their arms and

1:18:54

you start to sink in a of those the

1:18:56

whole about then you die of his things like

1:18:59

that you have to jump on collapsing platforms. are

1:19:01

you. Have to know which ones are

1:19:03

going to collapse or by dying and

1:19:05

then doing it differently you can. Meet.

1:19:07

Me about the Dead Man Walking scenarios. A

1:19:10

lot of really adventure games where you bought

1:19:12

yeah you use up our an item in

1:19:14

don't realize every mr item don't pick it

1:19:16

up and and or stock later which could

1:19:18

be hours later on their some deliberately malicious

1:19:20

path finding. If you want to walk from

1:19:23

point A to point B and you take

1:19:25

the up i pod news of the triangle

1:19:27

instead of are walking across the two legs

1:19:29

to you some of the factory and are

1:19:31

terminology yo yo fall down a hole where

1:19:33

you'll you'll wake up a bandit or something

1:19:35

so of on this a little bit. Of

1:19:38

that a sort of knew that you had

1:19:40

to kind of at click around to get

1:19:42

where you want to go. I'm just three

1:19:44

different majors in the game arm. And.

1:19:46

As you have to map out and are

1:19:48

and that what else yes I did beat

1:19:50

before we go. I do when I agree

1:19:52

with you that this is a game that

1:19:54

I have a lot of fond memories of

1:19:56

and I think I really respond well to

1:19:58

games and ever did. Into place A good

1:20:01

place for a good sense of like there

1:20:03

is this world that you could jump into.

1:20:05

And I still love the art in this

1:20:07

game of I still have the music. I

1:20:09

get to have warm fuzzy feelings about all

1:20:11

that. It's just that when you examine the

1:20:13

puzzles. Objectively, In

1:20:15

terms of. Will. This frustrate a

1:20:18

player. Does this make sense? It.

1:20:20

Just doesn't pass any of those tests they

1:20:22

needed that the whole game is is like

1:20:24

that. Ah well. What one of the most

1:20:27

famous ones is that the rat in the

1:20:29

cat puzzle? So. There's one

1:20:31

point in the game, where are you

1:20:33

need a rat to. Fight.

1:20:35

Through some ropes to rescue you right? But

1:20:38

the only way to get there is

1:20:40

that after you get a boot in the

1:20:42

desert or by the skeleton that that we

1:20:44

mentioned earlier. See, pick

1:20:46

up that boot and then the next time

1:20:48

that you walk in front of of the

1:20:50

bakery and again you have you have no

1:20:52

indication that this is gonna happen. You have

1:20:54

no reason to expect this. The narrator says

1:20:56

something like oh there's a rat that's running

1:20:58

down the road and as a cat following

1:21:00

it. And. I time to this last

1:21:03

night. You have a two second window. To.

1:21:05

Go into your inventory and throw

1:21:07

either than the boot or a

1:21:10

stick at the cat. To.

1:21:12

Save the Rat. Otherwise, the Rat gets

1:21:14

you know, Tate, you know, taken in

1:21:16

in and often eaten. and if that

1:21:18

happens, you can't win the game. But

1:21:20

depending on how you're playing the game,

1:21:23

you might not realize that for like

1:21:25

another few hours. So it's just incredibly,

1:21:27

incredibly cruel. Ah I'm one

1:21:29

of the others that really frustrating. you get

1:21:31

trapped in the which is forest and to

1:21:33

get out you have to dump honey on

1:21:36

the ground on one of like i think

1:21:38

it's seven screens. that and only only one

1:21:40

of them works and then we were out

1:21:42

and else with some emeralds by dropping it

1:21:45

on than he gets stuck in the honey.

1:21:47

And there's. There's like

1:21:49

eyes in the background of that to

1:21:51

indicate that somebody is watching. But the

1:21:54

other than that, there's really. No.

1:21:56

Hints on that you're supposed

1:21:58

to do that. It all.

1:22:00

and then this really bizarre sort

1:22:02

sequence at the end. Ah,

1:22:05

I'm. Where you have you have

1:22:07

to get. Some. Cheese.

1:22:10

To. Activate a machine about alone

1:22:12

is wonky, right? Because there's no

1:22:14

indication of this machine is working.

1:22:17

Get a threesome season. It. Would. Still,

1:22:19

to do that, you have to. Purposely.

1:22:21

Get caught by a monster. Get.

1:22:24

Thrown into a dungeon. Use.

1:22:26

A fish hook that you. May.

1:22:28

Have picked up a few hours ago

1:22:30

or maybe not. Go. Inside

1:22:32

of. He. Like

1:22:35

a mousehole. To get the cheese

1:22:37

that if you notice that the cheeses there and

1:22:39

have far make sense at least there's one business

1:22:41

and he says is fishing out the yeah that

1:22:44

that she's with the hook but then yeah but

1:22:46

then he i've been after that then you have

1:22:48

to get to leave their and then you have

1:22:50

to not get caught again because if you do

1:22:52

then the want why were you got out of

1:22:54

earlier gets walled up. And. Then

1:22:56

you you die so like you have to

1:22:59

get caught. By. This thing that you think

1:23:01

will kill you. To. Progress. But the not?

1:23:03

do it. Why did it's because then you

1:23:05

will die and then throw it into the

1:23:07

machine later. Because. I

1:23:10

still don't understand why that is supposed to

1:23:12

work. Yeah when I s or both of

1:23:14

you questions about these games I feel like

1:23:16

I'm just a person him as an outsider.

1:23:18

But all my questions team leading like why

1:23:21

is this like this? What's wrong with this

1:23:23

puzzle? Because I'm thinking of adventure games I

1:23:25

memorized like Maniac Mansion in there are fewer

1:23:27

deaths states, fewer dead men walking states. But

1:23:29

the puzzle that make sense to me would

1:23:32

sound just as convoluted if I explain them

1:23:34

here in the same way you're explaining. Many.

1:23:37

Of these puzzles maybe there's a few more

1:23:39

clues in the in the world but the

1:23:41

the they have the same kind of logic

1:23:43

is in many ways you could say that

1:23:45

although as a big fan of the Monkey

1:23:47

Island series. As. As silly as

1:23:49

those puzzles are, we all know that the

1:23:51

silly Lucasarts puzzles aren't. There is a bit

1:23:53

of a cartoon logic to and after you've

1:23:55

done them, you're like, okay right? The rubber

1:23:57

chicken with a pulley the believe you use

1:23:59

it. The cable and he goes wife

1:24:01

with this. I'm. There's. Really

1:24:04

no justification for why the moldy cheese with

1:24:06

with work even if you try to our

1:24:08

to go back and and look for it

1:24:10

out and the fact that doesn't have a

1:24:12

you know this over a cartoon as that

1:24:15

I can logic or makes it a little

1:24:17

bit less on. Forgivable. I

1:24:19

will say that are the next game in the

1:24:21

series. Kings Quest six solves this problem of of

1:24:23

the most with us and once you thrown that

1:24:25

you've got to this whole game and use your

1:24:27

on the cheese in there and you get this.

1:24:29

Be watches big long sequence. the takes I don't

1:24:31

know what. Thirty seconds you know exactly how long

1:24:33

it takes, matches your time is right, it's I

1:24:35

don't remember actually married it. It takes a while.

1:24:37

it's like forty five seconds. Forty five seconds to

1:24:39

it's it's a while you're when watching this machine

1:24:41

go on and on your about it. You know

1:24:43

that you're in the endgame, you're about to defeat

1:24:45

more to act a wizard and yet you know

1:24:47

you're if you're eight. Years old and you're

1:24:49

excited and then you get off at

1:24:51

for lot of players get a little

1:24:54

white bought it pops up this as

1:24:56

out of heat space and it just

1:24:58

crashes the game and that's that's it.

1:25:00

Arms and ah I play this in.

1:25:02

Windows, I think and I was still getting

1:25:05

that. Weird. Message either in

1:25:07

it was not a windows text box that

1:25:09

pops up in it's a bizarre arabs and

1:25:11

it's one of the you if you look

1:25:13

for a now on line you're still feeling

1:25:15

see a lot of people just at the

1:25:17

end of the game hitting this game breaking

1:25:19

bug and so you know that's just not

1:25:22

ness nobody nobody intentionally put that in there

1:25:24

but it's just the icing on the cake.

1:25:26

Have some of the frustrations that that the

1:25:28

habits. And. Yet. Aesthetically,

1:25:30

this is. A. Gorgeous

1:25:32

looking game, especially. In. The

1:25:34

times I still think the colors are

1:25:37

just pop and look great. I as

1:25:39

as you said that the music I

1:25:41

think is is is so memorable and

1:25:43

so good I'm that's I can Our

1:25:45

end of. March. Seaward with

1:25:48

the composer's on this games and.just terrific

1:25:50

stuff on. I especially like the Seem

1:25:52

as theme in this game on, but

1:25:54

I think all of them are. I

1:25:56

could, I could. In. Be there

1:25:58

in my head right now did I could? You

1:26:00

have most of them I've come to front

1:26:02

of mind or neatly alien you mentioned. He

1:26:04

noted that she's of the and they're like

1:26:07

even in a with that like the castle

1:26:09

is genuinely creepy. It's a creepy place and

1:26:11

I still think so even in all these

1:26:13

years later. Yeah when I when I watch

1:26:15

these games are the play through of them

1:26:17

are they do feel like they probably scared

1:26:19

the hell out of kids because there are

1:26:22

these Nemesis style stalker enemies that double just

1:26:24

appear in the basically they are just the

1:26:26

know primitive versions of jumps here like it

1:26:28

I could see myself being terrified. of this

1:26:30

game. if I had access to it as a kid

1:26:32

I was scared of some parts of Maniac Mansion and

1:26:34

one of you put in the notes about the final

1:26:37

encounter which. To me it it

1:26:39

seems like Sierras own kind of take on

1:26:41

what we see at the end of the

1:26:43

Monkey Island Games where there's a bit of

1:26:46

it are and G L A man there's

1:26:48

a bit of the timing element, but here

1:26:50

there's a lot more going on and a

1:26:52

lot more things that aren't really communicated well

1:26:54

to the player. Okay, I think you're talking

1:26:57

about me there. Yeah, so like it's It's

1:26:59

not exactly at the very end, but it

1:27:01

it is in the and sequence and there's

1:27:03

just a ton. Of our in see

1:27:06

that that's going on. like it. So there's that

1:27:08

monster that I was talking about the he has

1:27:10

to. You. Know you have to

1:27:12

get captured by him. And you

1:27:14

know on every screen that that

1:27:16

that monster can show up on

1:27:18

there. there's faring like percentages of

1:27:21

of whether he'll show upper not

1:27:23

sometimes even depends on which direction

1:27:25

you come into the room for

1:27:27

some reason like if you come

1:27:29

in from the west vs that

1:27:31

the north. And then

1:27:34

there's is really complicated sorta algorithm

1:27:36

where. It like role and dice

1:27:38

to see if it appears. And. Then

1:27:40

if that fails at roles and other guys to

1:27:42

see if the cat appears you by the ways.

1:27:44

Banana. And from Kings Quest three and

1:27:47

he'll end up, you know, ruin your day

1:27:49

as well. And then it

1:27:51

it checks to see whether. A gram

1:27:53

is in. The. Right area of the

1:27:55

screen and then it. Blake roles a

1:27:57

random wait time between two different now.

1:28:00

There's an that wait time is

1:28:02

different depending on which screen you're

1:28:04

on are they just went to

1:28:06

town on. Weird.

1:28:08

Orange Eat decisions, dishes you know,

1:28:10

super weird and then you know

1:28:12

the top it off when you

1:28:14

enter more dax bedroom. More Dex

1:28:16

The Evil Wizard. Who's. Behind

1:28:19

everything there's just a one at a ten chance

1:28:21

that whole show up and kill you. And

1:28:24

there's nothing you can do about it yet.

1:28:26

Seems like with the first Kings Quest they

1:28:28

were in trade they're trying to incorporate in

1:28:30

Arcadia elements are actually game elements of this

1:28:32

one with with the seen a particular does

1:28:34

feel like they're trying to incorporate Rpg elements

1:28:36

because Orange he does make sense in the

1:28:39

in the context of an Rpg and I

1:28:41

know I haven't played them but their Quest

1:28:43

for Glory games with a lot of Rpg

1:28:45

elements of maybe they were thinking like of

1:28:47

a way to dress the sequence up with

1:28:49

those same ideas of random chance. The only

1:28:51

thing I can sort of think of is

1:28:53

is something. That you mentioned earlier was to

1:28:55

make it scarier like it's more like a

1:28:57

jump scare. You know what you don't know

1:29:00

if this thing is is is coming are

1:29:02

not which you know is also you know

1:29:04

it it it makes It does also make

1:29:06

the player experience different depending on what you

1:29:09

do because I'm not sure how many people

1:29:11

you know know this but. Ah,

1:29:13

So what me what you can do is.

1:29:16

Is are really use some peas to take

1:29:19

out the monster and make sure you know

1:29:21

you know that he ah. Ah

1:29:23

well. doesn't show up on that screen anymore

1:29:25

though. he can wake up as a long

1:29:27

story but you can also you know fall

1:29:29

this thing where you can. You

1:29:32

know, bag the cat by getting else, tossing

1:29:34

a fish to it and them all it's

1:29:36

not looking. put it into a sack. you

1:29:38

don't have to do that, you can save

1:29:40

scum it and just you know if you

1:29:42

can avoid. Seen. Any of those

1:29:44

things go straight to the end. So.

1:29:46

A basis is. This. Weird mishmash of

1:29:48

stuff that it does sort of feel

1:29:51

to like they were kana. They

1:29:53

were still figuring out like how they wanted

1:29:55

these teams to work. Yeah.

1:29:57

Just just trying everything and it feels like. Like

1:30:00

your thing then. By. The

1:30:02

six game. It feels a lot

1:30:04

more like a Modern Games that true. If

1:30:07

fix a lot of what was wrong

1:30:09

they they certainly fix the voice acting

1:30:11

I'm I'm in addition to Run Benson

1:30:13

they have a Tony J or the

1:30:15

great Tony J of I I can

1:30:18

remember who else but other is a

1:30:20

lot of terrific our voice acting in

1:30:22

that they've tried to all the haven't

1:30:24

and down entirely eliminate dead men walking.

1:30:27

Through. Things They They try to minimize it

1:30:29

by giving you clues a few times that you're

1:30:32

about to miss something. And.

1:30:34

They they try to give you different ways

1:30:36

to go back and get. They haven't fully

1:30:38

succeeded on the are. The. Sequence of

1:30:40

events are are logical that that you

1:30:43

would follow on. The Or. Even

1:30:45

even though the there are some pretty tricky puzzles

1:30:47

in there that you are, how how would I

1:30:49

have known to like? Go back and look a

1:30:51

second time in This pilot splits. But.

1:30:53

Everything makes a lot more sense. Arm

1:30:55

and out. that's a terrific game on.

1:30:58

I think out of although the

1:31:01

Kings Quest five I'm puzzles that

1:31:03

ah or out. The one that

1:31:05

I think is the meanest is

1:31:07

that if you are I'm in

1:31:10

the endgame sequence with with more

1:31:12

to act wizards it you need

1:31:14

to grab his are wand and

1:31:16

unless you. Are Bad The cat

1:31:19

in a certain location which is his bedroom

1:31:21

you have to stand in a room and

1:31:23

watch through the door as the wizard appears

1:31:25

in the room and fall asleep and go

1:31:27

and grab his wife's You gotta wait sometimes

1:31:29

who worked for two minutes for this to

1:31:31

happen and I just cannot imagine it unless

1:31:33

you happen to be so are stumped by

1:31:35

this game that you're sitting there scratching your

1:31:37

head, are going to get a sandwich or

1:31:39

something on how somebody was stumbled across this.

1:31:41

I mean I have before it happened but

1:31:43

I didn't know what I'd done. I certainly

1:31:45

wouldn't have known if I waited your ninety

1:31:47

seconds. That many as you wait another thirty seconds

1:31:50

for this happens of I think it's a little

1:31:52

bit odd but unfair. Our. You.

1:31:54

Have it is a bit bizarre and even at yes

1:31:56

you were talking about their if you bag the cat

1:31:59

in the bedroom. You. Only you only

1:32:01

have to wait ninety second. See it. It

1:32:03

may as well be two minutes. It is

1:32:05

the you nicer to highlight that is like

1:32:07

just a weird choice that they made. I

1:32:09

don't understand the logic behind that but but

1:32:12

but but there's There's no reason to stick

1:32:14

around in the library like you do. One

1:32:16

thing. You. Can't read any of the

1:32:18

other books. It like

1:32:20

there's no reason for you to be there. It

1:32:22

it. it does feel like a kind of a cruel

1:32:24

trick but very clever where the solution is to

1:32:26

do nothing which is. Very. We're very

1:32:29

seldom with a solution in a game is

1:32:31

just had a chill out specially in a

1:32:33

game of that era when you're always looking

1:32:35

okay have what object to i need what

1:32:37

what what things that he to do in

1:32:39

what order and we have to wrap up

1:32:41

fairly shortly here. But I do want to

1:32:43

point out that alarmingly there was a any

1:32:45

as part of this game produced by Novo

1:32:47

Trade weirdly enough published by Konami so another

1:32:49

fun just he play for the one as

1:32:51

what's your favorite Konami game to say kings

1:32:53

Quest five and then just watch their face

1:32:55

not the idea what to play it. But.

1:32:58

I was watching the videos of this

1:33:00

game. Ah, It's a feat

1:33:02

it is a seats in being asked the

1:33:04

port this game to the any as I

1:33:06

will say the unenviable task and they did

1:33:08

a great job with the tools available at.

1:33:10

Any thoughts on this either of you. I.

1:33:14

Was this is Say yeah I I

1:33:16

I'm impressed. By. What they were

1:33:18

able to get onto the any S

1:33:21

cartridge and what they were able to

1:33:23

do. I would not recommend that anybody

1:33:25

actually play it by it. You know

1:33:27

if if you're gonna port this over.

1:33:30

Like. I am impressed with what they actually

1:33:32

came up with. It has and clunky controls

1:33:34

but I think I played it or three

1:33:36

nights ago. I play through it and I'm

1:33:38

it. it was. It was fine. If the

1:33:40

same game that you most of the dialogue

1:33:42

made it is a change. A couple of

1:33:44

of things you know with gods and death

1:33:46

and suffix of the references out in it.

1:33:48

otherwise you get pretty much the same experience

1:33:50

in a much uglier package. It's yeah, simply

1:33:52

incredible that it even exists and I guess

1:33:54

we're going a rapper fairly sure the here

1:33:56

you to have been living with thinks was

1:33:58

for very long time. And I

1:34:01

really want to know a for the sake

1:34:03

of our listeners hit Hey for me to

1:34:05

what is the best way to approach these

1:34:07

games In year Twenty Twenty Four and beyond

1:34:09

The recommends just jumping in without any facts

1:34:11

or anything like that are watching videos or

1:34:14

let's start with a D and what's what

1:34:16

is the best way for someone to approach

1:34:18

these games which by the way are all

1:34:20

legally available right now view the way I

1:34:22

would do it. I would take a look

1:34:24

at the the first couple Kings Quest games

1:34:26

are just to see what it's they look

1:34:28

like originally but then. If you want to

1:34:31

play through them and sort of get are

1:34:33

the most out of them. being a modern

1:34:35

gamer or I or gamer with a modern

1:34:37

expectations and sensibilities I would look for the

1:34:40

a ged of remakes out there and down

1:34:42

in the first game is a is pretty

1:34:44

much a one to one of the official

1:34:46

hi Rez release. On the second one is

1:34:49

a is a totally different take on a

1:34:51

on the second game. in the third when

1:34:53

I say it is pretty faithful again I'm

1:34:55

an go back to the original Kings Quest

1:34:58

for which he was is still and. Eg.

1:35:00

a but it's it's fairly. play a ball, olive

1:35:02

with a lot of the same kind of i

1:35:04

difficulties an easy copley your way through. I would

1:35:06

recommend having a walkthrough handy, I think you probably

1:35:09

get more out of it that way. And then

1:35:11

once you get a Kings Quest six I think

1:35:13

you. I would recommend that you

1:35:15

could try to play that when legitimately just because they

1:35:17

replace all that more fair. I

1:35:20

would I would say i've the infamous or

1:35:22

it's game in the series are you may

1:35:24

you may want to give that a miss

1:35:26

or and he just want to play through

1:35:29

it's it's that the know what eight games

1:35:31

there are only like around games or any

1:35:33

final thoughts met on just how people should

1:35:35

interface with these games. The newcomers. Yeah.

1:35:38

I would actually agree with that.

1:35:40

I'd I would suggest starting with

1:35:42

the Hdd interactive remakes he if

1:35:44

one doesn't grab you. I think

1:35:46

that the remake of To is

1:35:48

probably the strongest of those three.

1:35:51

I. Would also recommend for Kings Quest

1:35:53

for. Plane. Of version called

1:35:56

Kings Quest for read whole. It

1:35:58

is a remake the game. That.

1:36:01

Keeps the graphics for the most part

1:36:03

but ad in a point and click

1:36:06

interface and a graphical inventory so you

1:36:08

don't own your to type anymore. There

1:36:10

are also options that were added to

1:36:12

turn off dead ends and did turn

1:36:15

on auto saves. which are

1:36:17

pretty cool feature but other than that

1:36:19

it's like it is the original game.

1:36:21

in all of it's a glory but.

1:36:24

Eat. More friendly. So let's say

1:36:26

Kings Quest for Retooled. And

1:36:28

then after that, I'd probably jumped

1:36:30

to Kings Quest Six Ah, deal

1:36:32

just too, because I think that

1:36:35

is the best of the originals.

1:36:37

And. then after that kind of poke around

1:36:39

her as water with structure. Well.

1:36:42

Thank you to both of you for being

1:36:44