0:04

From

0:04

the Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX,

0:07

this is Reveal. I'm Al Edson.

0:11

On May 25th, 2020, the country seemed to shift.

0:16

A Black man, George Floyd, was

0:18

killed in Minneapolis. And

0:21

like an earthquake that set off a tsunami,

0:24

a wave of racial justice protests

0:27

swept the nation. Of

0:30

all the demonstrations around the country that year, Denver,

0:33

Colorado, saw some of the biggest, most

0:36

intense protests.

0:37

We've been watching as fences are smashed,

0:40

torn down, protesters starting fires

0:42

and building umbrella barricades.

0:44

Thousands demonstrated outside

0:47

the Colorado State Capitol, chanting

0:49

a phrase synonymous with Black men dying

0:51

at the hands of police officers. I

0:54

can't breathe! I can't

0:56

breathe! I can't breathe! I can't breathe!

0:58

Some of the Denver protests became violent

1:01

and destructive.

1:01

No justice! No justice!

1:05

Police fired pepper spray

1:07

and rubber bullets into crowds, injuring

1:10

dozens. But the protesters

1:12

just kept coming out, undaunted.

1:15

Day 10 of protests across Denver,

1:17

nearly a week after police used tear gas

1:19

and pepper balls to disperse protesters

1:22

outside... And then, one night, a

1:24

new guy showed up at the protest, driving

1:27

a big silver hearse. Straight

1:30

away, he began to establish himself with the leaders,

1:32

and eventually, he would

1:34

transform Denver's racial

1:35

justice protests.

1:39

Today, we're partnering with the podcast

1:41

Alphabet Boys from Western Sound and

1:44

journalist Trevor Aronson, who got

1:46

a hold of secret recordings that

1:48

reveal surprising details about

1:50

that guy in the silver hearse, what

1:52

he did at these protests, and

1:55

who he was working for.

1:57

Trevor takes the story from here. That

2:00

new guy who shows up at the protests stands

2:03

out. He's a white guy wearing

2:05

military fatigues with patches and stripes

2:08

that he claims to a vern fighting the Islamic

2:10

State or ISIS and Iraq

2:12

and Syria. He has a cigar

2:15

dangling from his lips. And on

2:17

the back window of a silver hearse is a sticker

2:19

reading Peshmerga, the

2:21

Kurdish military force. And inside his

2:23

hearse was like a lot of guns, you know, like AR-15s and all other

2:25

kind of things. This is Zeb Hall.

2:28

He was a regular at the Denver protests. Yeah,

2:31

it was just this dude, you know, talking

2:33

about he worked in the foreign military. He

2:36

was for the Black Lives Matter movement. He

2:38

just seemed like some authoritarian figure,

2:41

you know, this powerful figure that was there. He

2:44

was very convincing, but he did explain, you know, he

2:46

was part of like a bad biker gangs.

2:49

You know, he had committed a ton of violence, you know, but,

2:51

you know, he was for this BLM movement.

2:54

And here's another regular at the Denver protests,

2:57

Bryce Shelby. He walked up with a body

3:00

cam on me. Bryce

3:02

says the Hearse dude was walking around with a GoPro

3:04

camera strapped to his chest. I

3:06

didn't think nothing about the body cam

3:09

just because I'm just

3:11

I don't know. There was just a lot

3:13

of things going on, I guess. And

3:16

straight away, Bryce says the guy starts bragging

3:18

about doing time in prison. Guess he de-escalated

3:21

any type of

3:23

suspicion because he would start like flashing

3:26

his prison badge. So

3:28

yeah, you know what I mean? Like, OK, he's not

3:31

this guy in a fair. You walk around with a prison

3:33

badge. Yeah.

3:37

Around the time this mysterious character starts showing

3:39

up, the protests in Denver are

3:41

stagnating. They're becoming this cat

3:43

and mouse game between demonstrators and cops,

3:46

people coming out in mostly peaceful ways, cops

3:49

coming out with riot gear and overwhelming

3:51

force. Protesters

3:54

like Bryce and Zeb, they're getting frustrated.

3:57

They want change. Something

3:59

more needs to happen. to happen. Something

4:01

new. And then something

4:04

new does happen. Here's

4:07

that. I was like, hey, this guy, you know, he wants

4:09

to train people how to, you know, defend

4:11

themselves and use the weapons and he just showed me how to

4:13

do it as well. A guy

4:16

with real military experience is here.

4:18

He's a commanding presence. He's

4:21

going to take things to the next level.

4:27

This guy is known to the protesters simply as

4:29

Mickey. His full

4:31

name is Michael Adam Windecker II.

4:34

Okay, it is August 28,

4:37

2020. It approximately 4.02 pm.

4:39

Special Agent Scott Dolfshroom with Special

4:46

Agent Byron Mitchell,

4:49

CHS for Meet with the Zebediah

4:52

Hall.

4:55

You can hear this. I'm putting it in my front pocket, right? Yeah.

4:57

Okay, I got it.

5:00

It's late afternoon on a warm day in Denver,

5:02

Colorado. It's drizzling outside and

5:04

Mickey is sitting in the back seat of an FBI

5:07

car. Two federal agents

5:09

are with him. And one of them, FBI

5:12

Special Agent Scott Dolfshroom, has

5:14

just handed Mickey a small hidden camera. Mickey

5:18

turns the camera to his face, shooting

5:20

from an unflattering angle below his chin. You

5:22

can see Mickey's thin red mustache and scraggly

5:25

goatee that's turning gray. He's

5:27

propped his large sunglasses on his forehead and

5:29

he's looking straight down into the tiny camera lens.

5:32

Mickey is not ready for his

5:34

close-up. Did he look good? Yep.

5:37

Yeah. He'll cancel. Not as handsome

5:39

as that kid. Mickey

5:42

points to someone outside, walking past the car,

5:44

and then he opens the car

5:46

door to leave. All right,

5:48

see you guys shortly. The

5:51

FBI agents tell him to remember his instructions, which

5:53

were given to him before the camera started recording. Yep,

5:57

I got it. Thanks mom, thanks dad. Mickey

6:03

then walks to his car, the Silver Hurst,

6:06

and places the FBI's camera on the passenger seat.

6:19

Mickey looks down toward the camera and

6:21

addresses the FBI agents, who are watching

6:23

the live feed remotely.

6:26

This

6:44

song is on a playlist Mickey's put together,

6:47

inspired by his work for the FBI. Mickey

6:50

is an informant, or in the FBI's

6:52

term of art, confidential human

6:55

source. Mickey is getting paid thousands

6:58

of dollars every few weeks. And

7:01

Mickey, he's got a very

7:03

specific assignment from his employers at the

7:06

FBI to infiltrate

7:08

the racial justice movement. As

7:10

the song ends, Mickey again looks down toward

7:13

the FBI camera.

7:19

Today the FBI has more than 15,000 registered

7:21

informants. The

7:24

public has no idea what most of these informants

7:27

are doing. Mickey's undercover

7:29

recordings provide us with a rare look

7:31

inside. FBI

7:34

reports about Mickey's work as an informant refer

7:36

to racial justice demonstrators as anti-government

7:39

extremists, which is one of the ideologies

7:42

the FBI classifies as domestic terrorism.

7:46

During the Trump administration, the FBI and

7:48

the Justice Department came up with a new

7:50

catch-all category to define a type

7:52

of domestic terrorism from black Americans. They

7:55

called it black identity extremism,

7:59

a new and the FBI's

8:01

view of anti-government extremism.

8:05

In 2017, the FBI's Counterterrorism

8:08

Division released a 12-page intelligence

8:10

report that claimed black identity extremists

8:13

were motivated by police brutality to

8:15

target law enforcement officers with

8:17

violence and even murder. The

8:20

FBI's evidence for this theory of rising

8:22

black political violence was pretty thin.

8:25

Resting on a series of a half dozen crimes committed

8:28

by black Americans over a three-year period

8:30

that had no apparent connection with one another

8:33

and no unifying political ideology. The

8:38

revelation that the FBI had come up with a black

8:40

identity extremism category for domestic

8:42

terrorism was met with widespread

8:44

criticism in the news media and on Capitol

8:47

Hill. Director Ray, thanks so much for being

8:49

here. I'd like to go into a subject

8:51

matter you and I have discussed before individually and with

8:54

the Congressional Black Caucus and others. In 2019,

8:57

Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey questioned

9:00

FBI Director Christopher Ray about

9:03

why the Bureau was so focused on so-called

9:05

black identity extremism. Given

9:08

that Americans at the time were seeing

9:10

increasing violence from white supremacists

9:13

in other far-right groups. That's

9:15

what I want to drill down on. We

9:18

know from a declassified joint intelligence briefing

9:20

from 2000 to 2016 that white supremacist

9:23

extremists were responsible for more homicides

9:26

than any other domestic extremist group. Ray

9:29

answers that the Bureau doesn't target people based

9:31

on identity or ideology. We

9:34

only investigate violence. We

9:36

don't investigate extremism. We don't investigate

9:39

ideology. We don't investigate rhetoric. It

9:41

doesn't matter how repugnant, how abhorrent

9:43

or whatever it is. It's about

9:46

the violence, not about the ideology.

9:48

Director Ray then disclosed

9:51

for the first time that the FBI

9:53

had abandoned the term black identity

9:55

extremism. Forgive me, this is news to

9:57

me. You no longer use the FBI. the

10:00

black identity extremism, that's no more. That's

10:03

great news. So nobody's being surveilled

10:05

or investigated on the black identity

10:08

extremism. We don't use that terminology

10:10

anymore. We

10:13

don't use that terminology anymore, Ray

10:15

said. But he didn't answer the

10:18

other part of Senator Booker's question. Were

10:21

people still being surveilled and investigated?

10:24

Is suspected of being black identity

10:26

extremists? And the answer

10:28

to that question was, and is, yes.

10:35

When we come back, undercover

10:38

FBI informant Mickey Windecker starts

10:40

dropping not so subtle hints about

10:43

how protesters can transition from

10:45

ideology to violence. You

10:48

know, if Rice is

10:50

planning on like, okay, I

10:52

want to blow up a courthouse. I need to know

10:55

what the data is. I'm gonna shoot up an attorney general

10:58

so I can tell my dude, this is what's up. That's

11:01

coming up after the break. You're listening

11:03

to Reveal.

11:19

I know, I know it's hard. You wait all

11:21

week for this podcast, and then it's

11:24

over. And you find yourself wanting more.

11:27

Let

11:27

me make a recommendation. The

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11:34

these stories. Subscribe now at

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revealnews.org slash newsletter.

11:46

From the Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX,

11:49

this is Reveal. I'm Al Edson.

11:52

Today, we're partnering with the podcast Alphabet

11:54

Boys and reporter Trevor Aronson to

11:57

look into how the FBI infiltrated.

12:00

racial justice demonstrations in 2020. Earlier,

12:04

we told you about Mickey Windecker, who

12:06

showed up at Denver's protests, driving

12:08

a silver hearse, which demonstrators

12:11

say was filled with weapons.

12:14

Mickey was working as a confidential

12:16

informant for the FBI, and he

12:19

was about to take the operation to

12:21

the next level.

12:22

Here's Trevor. I've obtained more

12:24

than 300 pages of internal FBI reports

12:26

about Mickey Windecker's work in Denver, as

12:29

well as hours and hours of undercover

12:31

recordings of Mickey goading protesters

12:34

into violence. I've also interviewed

12:36

dozens of activists who encountered Mickey while

12:38

he was secretly working for the FBI. The

12:40

FBI documents and recordings reveal, for

12:43

the first time, how federal law enforcement

12:45

attempted to infiltrate and undermine

12:47

the racial justice movement during the summer of 2020.

12:51

FBI agents described Mickey in internal records

12:54

as something of a good Samaritan, a

12:56

kind of volunteer Captain America.

12:59

But other bureau documents detail Mickey's criminal

13:01

history. He's been arrested in Colorado,

13:04

Nevada, Texas, and Florida

13:06

for various alleged crimes, and

13:09

he's been convicted of misdemeanor sexual assault and

13:11

menacing with a weapon, a felony. His

13:14

court records also reveal a pattern of pretending

13:16

to be a police officer. While

13:18

being paid by the FBI during the summer of 2020, Mickey

13:22

posed as an activist. He

13:24

accused real activist leaders of being informants.

13:27

And amid the chaos he created, Mickey

13:29

became a kind of leader of the Denver racial justice

13:32

movement,

13:33

here in the nickname,

13:35

the Drill Sergeant. Come on, Drill Sergeant.

13:37

I can't hear you! No,

13:40

please, no, please! No, please,

13:42

no, please! In the last week of August 2020,

13:45

Mickey led protests that became full-on

13:47

assaults against police buildings, resulting

13:49

in dozens of injuries to protesters and police

13:51

officers. But his undercover work with

13:54

the FBI was expanding further to

13:56

target specific activists. One

13:59

afternoon, Mickey meets with Zeb Hall

14:01

and Bryce Shelby at Famous Dave's, a

14:03

chain barbecue restaurant.

14:13

Mickey's asked for a table

14:15

for three, and of course, since

14:18

he's secretly recording this for the FBI, he's

14:20

also requested for the restaurant's music to be turned down.

14:23

About 15 minutes later, the activist

14:26

Bryce Shelby shows up. Mickey's

14:32

arranged this lunch to bring Bryce and Zeb together,

14:35

trying to find a way to set them up on federal criminal

14:37

charges. Neither Zeb

14:39

nor Bryce has been involved in violence at the protests.

14:43

Mickey and the FBI know this. The

14:46

FBI is targeting them for things they've said. Zeb

14:49

has talked vaguely about combat training and revolution,

14:52

and Bryce has a reputation for giving inflammatory

14:54

speeches, with a rifle slung

14:56

over his shoulder. Mickey tells both

14:58

men over lunch that he's got a guy coming to town,

15:01

an outlaw biker who will help them with

15:04

whatever they need. Mickey

15:28

then starts to encourage Zeb and Bryce to come up

15:30

with a plan. But,

15:32

he warns,

15:33

they can't bring

15:34

anybody else in. It's got

15:36

to remain super secret. Don't

15:39

tell anyone what we're talking about. And

15:41

a warning, these guys swear a lot in these recordings.

15:45

Yeah, but let me tell you something. I'm going to be real with you in a second, okay?

15:48

And I'm going to put it as an outlaw biker point

15:50

of view. When you bring too many people

15:52

in, somebody's going to talk. The

15:55

waiter comes to the table, and Mickey, Bryce,

15:57

and Zeb stop their tough guy talk. and

16:00

order food, as if nothing's going on. Mickey

16:03

says he's buying. Ready to get some food going? Yeah.

16:06

Yeah, yeah. Mickey orders ribs with beans and mashed potatoes.

16:09

I want to do ribs. Zeb orders the same. And

16:12

Bryce says he'll take a chicken sandwich. And

16:15

garlic toast for me. Okay. Instead

16:18

of muffins? No, I don't like muffins. I

16:20

hate muffins. All right. Thank

16:22

you, babe. I'm not worried, guys. I'll

16:24

have a good meeting today. Cool, cool. Once the waiter leaves,

16:27

the talk picks back up. Why can't I build

16:29

up over time with anger and

16:32

resentment?

16:32

Amen. Just all of a sudden, can't

16:34

we go to a rich neighborhood? And I cannot

16:37

control what the pieces do.

16:39

Why can't I grow anger over time,

16:42

Zeb says, and then create a demonstration

16:44

in a rich neighborhood? If

16:46

people get violent, well, I

16:48

can't control people. That

16:51

appears to be the extent of Zeb's recipe for revolution.

16:55

And that's not good enough for Mickey. But

16:58

which rich neighborhood are you thinking

17:00

of? Think of it over time. You got six months,

17:02

right? Yeah, but you got to remember, my guy

17:04

doesn't have six months. How long

17:07

has it been to teach me? I don't know,

17:09

man. You don't have to talk to him. But

17:12

the thing I'm telling you is, this

17:13

guy's an old type of cat. I mean, if you're all

17:15

trying to do, he's going to help you with this. But you're

17:17

going to understand, this guy's an old, brown type of dude.

17:20

You know what I mean? And it's like, you

17:22

know, I mean, you look at Bryce's

17:24

point. Bryce is talking about immediate

17:27

action, you know, news splash. You know,

17:31

I mean, what do you think, Bryce? He

17:33

was there. Bryce

17:36

says he feels like they're running out of time. The

17:38

cops are kicking their butts. Something

17:41

more needs to be done.

17:43

And soon. And

17:45

Mickey encourages a more specific plan. Blow

17:48

up a courthouse, maybe. Or

17:51

shoot the attorney general. You

17:54

know, I'll put you like this. Let me just

17:56

be real with you for a second. At

17:58

the end of the day, it's cool.

17:59

game plan is I mean I'm not gonna sit there and tell

18:02

you you should do this and you should do that I'm not gonna

18:04

say that okay but

18:07

you need to have an objective what you're gonna

18:09

do I mean you know you

18:12

like if Bryce is planning

18:14

on like okay I want to board with a courthouse

18:17

I need to know what the game fighters

18:19

are I'm gonna shoot up an attorney general so

18:21

I could tell my dude this is what's up because

18:24

if I tell my dude like yeah they're gonna come out

18:26

and hang out for nine months and they'll

18:29

do some training I don't think we got that one alright

18:32

Mickey says he needs to give his contact the

18:34

outlaw biker guy some sort of action

18:37

plan otherwise this is all just talk

18:39

going nowhere Zeb

18:41

won't commit to anything concrete so

18:43

Mickey describes how Bryce has a scheme in mind that

18:46

they could all get behind Bryce

18:48

has the home address of an important elected official

18:51

and well what if that politician

18:53

winds up dead shot as he's getting

18:55

out of his car for leaving the house so

18:58

question is are you cool with

19:00

Bryce doing what he needs to do I got the

19:03

DA's address Bryce

19:09

says referring to the district attorney

19:12

well do you mean that 20 general not the DA

19:15

nothing about it

19:17

yeah it's clear from this conversation

19:20

that Bryce doesn't know that the district attorney and

19:22

the attorney general are two different

19:25

people two different elected positions

19:29

over lunch at famous days Mickey tries to

19:31

steer Bryce toward a specific plot and

19:33

a specific person an assassination

19:36

of Colorado's Attorney General so

19:39

you're thinking for sure that the AG

19:44

right then

19:46

the discussion takes a very weird turn

19:49

Zeb listening to everything and wanting to

19:52

be part of the conversation begins

19:54

to suggest that they should figure out a way to use Denver's

19:57

sewer systems to move around

19:59

the city As if they're, I

20:02

don't know, Teenage Mutant

20:04

Ninja Turtles? Yeah, but where's the

20:06

sewer at? I mean, not over.

20:09

Where? We're all under it. Let's

20:12

use the sewers, Zeb says. But

20:15

where are the sewers? Mickey asks.

20:18

They're all under us, Zeb replies. Whose

20:22

sewers are you talking about? The governor, the

20:25

police chief, the mayor? I

20:29

don't know what the key is. The

20:32

conversation continues like this, an

20:34

absurd discussion of sewers, and

20:36

the three men finish eating and walk outside

20:38

of the restaurant and into the parking lot. Mickey

20:44

is clearly annoyed and wants to steer his targets

20:46

away from Zeb's ludicrous idea

20:49

to launch the revolution from Denver's sewer system

20:52

and toward Bryce's nascent plan to

20:54

kill an elected official. Mickey

20:56

says he's got to let his contact know what's up,

20:58

and soon. So I'm going to let him

21:00

know who do you want to get to the general.

21:04

I appreciate you, bro. Ready?

21:08

Am I ready to get back? Yeah, I'm good. Yeah.

21:11

Play is slow, you know what I mean? Black

21:14

power. Already up.

21:17

All right. Mickey gets in his silver hearse and

21:21

sums up his meeting with Zeb and

21:23

Bryce. What

21:25

a dumpster fire. Mickey's

21:43

playing Flute Wood Mac on the car stereo. After

21:45

a short drive, he gets out of the hearse and

21:48

walks over to meet with the FBI agents, who

21:51

are sitting in their black sedan. Mickey

21:54

taps on the car window. FBI

21:56

agent Scott Dalstrom opens the door, and

21:59

Mickey...

21:59

Hands on the recording device. Attorney

22:02

General is your target. Attorney

22:06

General is your target, Mickey tells the agents.

22:09

The FBI now appears to

22:11

have a serious investigation in

22:14

Denver, a plot to assassinate

22:16

a statewide elected official.

22:24

A few days later, Mickey's supposed

22:27

outlaw biker buddy pulls into town.

22:30

Mickey's friend is wearing a hidden camera.

22:37

Denver, Colorado. Today is

22:39

August 25th, originally 2.50

22:42

pm.

22:46

This guy isn't really Mickey's friend.

22:49

He's an FBI special agent, and

22:51

he goes by the nickname, Red. What

22:54

happened? Mickey walks

22:57

up to the car. Red rolls

22:59

down his window, and he notices Mickey's

23:01

broken finger. Where'd you do that thing? I

23:04

went to Sturgis. A drunk driver hit me. Oh,

23:06

honey,

23:07

why? Just cleaned my handle parts

23:09

and my wrist. That was it.

23:11

Mickey then walks over to his car, and

23:13

Red seems to think Mickey looks

23:15

ridiculous as he gets behind the wheel of

23:18

a silver hearse.

23:24

A few minutes later, Red pulls into

23:26

the parking lot of a TGI Friday's.

23:29

Mickey walks up to him again. He's

23:32

pretty laid back. He's kind of

23:34

a little bit mental.

23:40

He's kind of mental in some ways.

23:44

Mickey means Bryce Shelby, the activist

23:46

with the vague plot to assassinate Colorado's attorney

23:48

general. Mickey,

23:51

the FBI's informant, and Red,

23:53

the FBI's undercover agent, walk

23:55

into a TGI Friday. What's up?

23:57

What you up to? Fine.

24:01

I ain't no great mate. You all

24:03

right on? Mark? Sorry,

24:05

dude.

24:06

What's up, man? What's up, brother? Another day, man.

24:09

Bryce is so much good. Red, red, this is Bryce. Juice,

24:11

man. They call me Juice. Juice.

24:14

That's one right in there. That's the man from the right.

24:16

Yeah. Bryce tells the FBI undercover

24:18

agent his nickname is Juice. They

24:21

call me Juice, he says. Is there any juice

24:23

on the duress? Yeah, let me get a strawberry

24:26

lemonade. Strawberry lemonade? Yeah, I'm

24:28

gonna cut that for a second. Mickey

24:30

then starts telling Bryce about his friend Red

24:33

and how his fellow members of the Special Forces community

24:35

falter him.

24:36

That's my

24:38

voice, I'm just gonna help you with

24:40

your drinks.

24:44

I don't even know what we're fighting. I

24:47

just know that these people

24:49

that run are

24:51

not for us. I'm

24:54

some regular Joe civilian. But

24:58

if I didn't see this coming, I'm not

25:01

gonna stand by this. This is my family. I'm gonna

25:03

be next.

25:03

I got the district

25:05

attorney's address.

25:07

Hello? This is the attorney's...

25:10

I keep voicing district attorney's address. Oh, yeah.

25:14

Bryce is still confusing the two positions,

25:17

the two different elected officials,

25:19

the district attorney and the attorney

25:21

general. Nobody

25:23

knows that we're here besides me and him. All right. None

25:26

of my people, my circle, none of the people in his

25:28

circle that I know of, unless you don't know somebody. I

25:31

didn't know. I didn't know. I gained

25:33

Vegas. This is another mission. Red

25:37

suggested Bryce that they take a

25:39

drive to scout out the

25:41

attorney general's house. All

25:43

right, well, I think

25:46

we ought to move out of there. Okay.

25:48

I got the address.

25:50

You're good with it. I'm good

25:52

with it. You're cold,

25:54

but... I'll see what the options are at that point,

25:57

right?

25:59

about this supposed assassination

26:02

plot. He told me he didn't

26:04

even know who the attorney general was. He

26:06

was really basically asking me, like, would be

26:09

my plan, how would I do it? I was really just saying,

26:11

like, movie, cut his lights off,

26:13

kicking the door.

26:15

I'm not, I don't got no real plan to do this. So

26:17

I think a listener would say, like, well,

26:20

why did you talk about it?

26:26

I guess...

26:29

I don't know. That's just how you feel at a moment.

26:31

Like, I'm gonna kill that. You've

26:34

said that about a lot of people that pissed you off in life,

26:36

listeners. You ain't never killed them, for

26:38

real, have you? This

26:41

assassination plot, though, ends up being

26:43

a little more than talk.

26:45

Bryce had the attorney general's home address.

26:48

He said he got it from another demonstrator who,

26:50

trying to be provocative, had read off a bunch

26:52

of elected officials' home addresses during his speech. So,

26:55

read the undercover agent.

26:58

Suggest they drive out to the house, maybe

27:00

come up with a more concrete plan. Bryce

27:03

agrees to go. On the ride

27:05

over, they keep talking. And

27:08

Bryce is acting like a tough guy.

27:11

What are you thinking?

27:16

I guess... I mean, let's just put it this

27:19

way. If you could have it any way you wanted.

27:20

Just

27:23

catch that... popping out of his car.

27:26

Because originally, I was thinking, it's

27:28

got the power off, it comes through the window or something like

27:30

that. Well, you're talking about Rambo. Yeah,

27:33

but then I got to thinking that's too much. I

27:36

got a big rifle, I got a hold, I got a... You

27:38

know what I mean? I'm thinking about that back

27:40

to, like, forensics tracing.

27:42

Versus

27:44

not none of that on you at all.

27:46

How about the car?

27:49

You know what I mean? Popping, bam! You're

27:52

still talking about forensics right there. Yeah,

27:55

but that's a lot less forensics, though. Let's

27:58

see what he's saying.

27:59

The FBI agent is being generous here

28:02

for the sake of the undercover sting. Bryce

28:05

is talking a bunch of nonsense.

28:08

Bryce then begins to describe to Red how

28:11

he wasn't interested in any sort of violence when he

28:13

first started protesting. Mickey,

28:16

he says, pushed him in that

28:18

direction. And when I met Mickey,

28:20

yeah, that was like, that was really like the first thing he

28:23

said. He was like, he was like, we're at an impasse.

28:26

A lot of people like thought he was a cop and they made him

28:28

start talking. Then he pulled out his prison

28:31

ID. I'm

28:34

like, yeah, this ain't no cop, for sure. Red

28:37

then asks Bryce what he knows about the guy whose house

28:39

they're driving to. What do you know

28:41

about this guy? Attorney

28:44

General. He's the oldest family. I

28:47

think

28:47

he has.

28:50

I think he has one kid

28:54

and a wife. But

28:58

that might be his, that might just be relatives.

29:01

You know, like on voter registration, it doesn't say

29:03

who's what. Yeah, I

29:05

think he has one kid and a wife. I

29:08

don't know how old his kid is either.

29:13

Oh, see.

29:17

40 men to early 40s. Early

29:20

to men 40s, I guess I'd say. He's

29:23

in office.

29:27

In about four years. I

29:30

want to say about four years.

29:33

Four or five.

29:35

Okay, I want to pause for a minute

29:37

because Bryce, he gets

29:39

almost everything wrong about Colorado's

29:41

Attorney General,

29:42

a guy named Phil Weiser. Phil

29:44

Weiser is married. That much is true.

29:47

But he has two children, not one. At

29:50

the time Bryce and Red are having this conversation,

29:53

Weiser is 52 years old, not

29:55

in his early to mid 40s. And

29:57

he was elected in 2018.

30:00

As this conversation is happening, has been

30:02

in office for less than two years. Not,

30:04

as Bryce says, four or five years.

30:07

Anyway, back to the car ride. So,

30:11

the question I asked earlier, in

30:13

a perfect situation, what

30:16

happened?

30:18

He hopped out the car. I'd

30:22

say maybe about a hundred yards away.

30:26

If that, if we could

30:28

park somewhere close to that would be great.

30:31

If not, I ain't worried about it. You

30:33

could do a nice little sprint before anybody ever

30:35

sees anything.

30:38

Uh, gotta figure

30:40

everybody's got cameras. Yeah, yeah. But

30:44

you know what I say in a perfect situation, I hopped out

30:46

the car. He's

30:49

getting his briefcase in the back seat or whatever. Light

30:52

him up a couple times. Aim

30:55

for the head, God damn it.

30:58

Jesus, Bryce.

31:01

This is about when they pull into the neighborhood.

31:04

We pulled in front of it. We pulled in front of the school, actually.

31:07

It sat in the parking lot, I don't know, 150 yards

31:10

away from the house.

31:12

Bryce and Red are looking at the house. I

31:16

don't know. What do you think?

31:23

Figure out a schedule.

31:27

I'm gonna have to come by here with, um, I'm

31:29

alright with

31:31

my home, girl. See,

31:34

if I think, if you think you're gonna sit outside here,

31:39

catch them leaving, I don't know, bro.

31:41

About coming home.

31:45

You gotta figure.

31:47

Comes home, he does this, the garage

31:49

door goes up.

31:51

He drives inside, he does this, the garage

31:53

door goes down.

31:58

I mean, I think there's... A

32:01

better chance of

32:06

accomplishing your goal is something

32:09

else, right? Mick

32:12

told me and maybe he's wrong,

32:14

but he told me that one of your big concerns

32:16

is making sure you didn't get caught. Yeah,

32:19

of course.

32:22

Live to fight another

32:24

day. I want to see the results as if

32:26

this worked or not, of course.

32:31

I'm going to have to figure out which car, what his car

32:33

drives and

32:36

just see where he, you know what I mean, where he goes

32:38

from a day to day basis. You

32:41

know what I mean? Trail him. I'm going

32:44

to have to trail him. I wasn't going to start doing none of this until I got back

32:46

in town in Kentucky.

32:48

At this point, while he's talking like

32:50

some hitman, Bryce is

32:53

backing out ever so subtly. He

32:56

says he can't do anything soon because

32:58

he'll be traveling. So Red

33:00

suggests another possibility. He's

33:02

got connections. They could hire

33:05

someone to kill the attorney general. You

33:07

know, it's going to cost them to put it together. That's all

33:10

I'm saying. What are

33:12

we looking at figure wise?

33:16

Five, six hundred bucks. Yeah.

33:21

Should be bad. Somewhere

33:23

in there.

33:25

Red and Bryce then drive back to the TGI

33:27

Fridays where Bryce's car is parked. On

33:30

the way back, Bryce confuses again

33:33

the attorney general with the district attorney.

33:36

Do the A-sales? I

33:39

mean, do attorney general's house?

33:41

Security. I'm sure

33:43

it's at the building. I don't know if they got

33:45

them. My personal protective details.

33:50

What Red didn't know at this point is Bryce

33:54

is onto him. Bryce

33:56

doesn't know a lot of things. That's for sure.

33:59

He certainly doesn't.

33:59

know much about his elected officials. But

34:02

Bryce knows this. Five

34:05

or six hundred bucks? No

34:07

way you can find a hitman to kill

34:09

an elected official

34:11

for five or six hundred bucks. And

34:13

I just kind of like, OK, like, yeah,

34:15

I'll let you know. You know, I mean, like, yeah, yeah,

34:18

I'll get right on it. I got you. Yep. I'm

34:20

gonna call you. Yep. Yep.

34:22

Hi, you stupid bro. I'm gonna

34:24

hit you, though.

34:27

I'm gonna call you, bro. Bryce?

34:31

He knows.

34:33

Something is

34:35

very off. When

34:38

we come back, Trevor goes looking

34:40

for Mickey. Yeah, this is Michael Binbecker.

34:43

I do not work for the FBI. I've never worked for the

34:45

FBI. Do you have proof of me working

34:48

for the FBI? Then I'll say otherwise.

34:51

That's next on Reveal. Hello,

35:07

listener, my name is

35:10

Najeeb Amini and I am a producer

35:12

here at Reveal. Reveal

35:14

is a nonprofit news organization

35:17

and we depend on support from our listeners.

35:19

Listeners like you donate

35:21

today at Reveal News dot org

35:24

slash donate. It helps

35:26

fund the stories that we tell and

35:28

helps me feed my cat. So

35:31

thank you.

35:35

From the Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX,

35:38

this is Reveal. I'm Al Letson.

35:41

Today, we're partnering with the podcast

35:44

Alphabet Boys to tell you about how the

35:46

FBI conducted an undercover

35:49

investigation in 2020 to

35:51

target racial justice protesters in

35:53

Denver, including Bryce Shelby.

35:56

When we left off, Bryce was growing suspicious

35:59

that maybe. be Red and Mickey aren't

36:01

who they say they are. Reporter Trevor

36:04

Aronson picks up the story with what happens

36:06

next.

36:07

So Bryce, as you're probably figuring,

36:11

doesn't assassinate Colorado's Attorney General. Or

36:13

even try to. But

36:16

his rhetoric, it's troubling.

36:19

He did talk about killing a politician.

36:23

Bryce said, just shoot him as he gets out of his

36:25

car. It's on tape, secretly

36:28

recorded by the FBI. I've

36:31

seen this kind of behavior a lot in undercover stings.

36:34

The targets of the investigation, talking

36:37

and acting like the undercovers, who are,

36:40

in turn, acting like bad guys. Terrorists,

36:43

drug dealers, money launderers, con men,

36:46

whatever. Humans

36:48

have a tendency to mimic the behavior of people in their

36:50

social groups.

36:51

We all do this,

36:52

some more than others. But

36:54

in undercover stings, there tends to be an amplifying

36:56

effect. The targets of the sting

36:59

either want to impress the undercovers, or

37:02

they're scared of the undercover agents. And

37:04

so they talk and act more like bad

37:07

guys. Bryce

37:09

is doing this. For example, when

37:12

Mickey and Red talked to Bryce about guns, he

37:14

told him that his guns were illegal. But

37:16

that isn't true.

37:18

I was maintaining the image with them. I bought my in

37:20

Ponce doors.

37:21

So I

37:23

was floating to them. I'm gang

37:25

banging, whoop-de-woop-de-woop, crips. I

37:27

ain't got no tattoos or where I'm my goddamn body.

37:30

And not that that means anything, because there's gang members that

37:32

don't have no tattoos at all. But I'm not

37:34

in the gang book. I've never been arrested with

37:36

people. But

37:39

I was telling them that. I'm thinking, again, these

37:41

are mercenaries and hitmen. So we

37:43

talk and killer talk, more or less. So

37:46

you're playing the part. Yeah.

37:48

And then when the man was like, yeah, throw me 500, I got you. So

37:51

first off, running in the streets,

37:53

you kill a political figure for way

37:56

more than that. I'm

37:58

going to say it straight up. You

38:01

kill somebody big like that for way more than $500. So

38:04

you do it with suspicious runaway just because the price was still

38:06

out of line. Yeah. Grossly.

38:10

You're selling yourself grossly. That's

38:12

some M's. For an M like that, that's

38:14

some M's.

38:17

Just being real. By

38:19

M's, Bryce means millions. A

38:22

murder like this would cost millions,

38:25

not $500. After

38:29

they drive over to the attorney general's house and

38:31

discuss how they might kill him, Bryce

38:33

says he never talks to Mickey or

38:35

Red again. A claim that

38:37

is supported by court records. All

38:40

of the evidence against Bryce stops here. They

38:43

tried to call me and s*** like that, but you

38:47

know what I mean? He recognized the number.

38:51

You just ghosted him at that point? I

38:53

wasn't... I'm not doing

38:55

this. I

38:58

know it's not going to end the way I wanted it to end.

39:01

Okay. All right. You killed a couple of our people.

39:04

All right. We're going to change

39:06

all laws, give you all reparations. Yeah,

39:08

that's not going to change anything. Let's just go piss them off

39:10

more. We're really going to start

39:12

killing black people more.

39:17

Yeah.

39:21

The racial justice protests in Denver were

39:23

prompted not only by the murder of George Floyd in

39:25

Minneapolis that year, but also by

39:27

the death of Elijah McClain, a young

39:29

black man in a suburb of Denver who

39:31

was injected with a lethal dose of ketamine

39:34

after being stopped by police the year before. Bryce

39:37

Shelby and other activists in Denver tell

39:40

me that they saw the summer of 2020 as

39:42

a potential turning point and

39:44

the protests as deeply American, rooted

39:47

in the country's founding principles. I

39:50

feel like America wants us

39:52

to just be quiet and let it happen,

39:54

but that's

39:56

so un-American. Like,

39:59

this country...

39:59

was started by

40:02

who didn't want to pay 10 cents

40:05

or 13 cents or whatever on some tea.

40:08

They started a whole war

40:11

separating from their country, their motherland

40:14

over some tea.

40:20

I'm wrong for wanting,

40:22

I guess as the

40:24

government will put it, I'm wrong for wanting to go

40:26

to war because you're killing us for small

40:29

egregious reasons.

40:32

I think I'm more American than you, son of a bitch.

40:40

Several months after he first introduced himself to

40:43

activists in Denver, Mickey Windecker's

40:45

undercover operation comes to a close.

40:48

He's recorded dozens of activists, he's

40:51

goaded some of them into violence at protests, and

40:54

he's even convinced one activist, Zeb Hall,

40:57

to buy him a gun using money secretly

41:00

provided by the FBI.

41:02

Mickey is a convicted felon, says

41:04

Zeb buying him a gun is a serious

41:06

crime. Then

41:08

the feds, with the help

41:10

of local officials, go after

41:13

Bryce.

41:15

Well, they showed up at my house, they

41:17

showed up at the park that I was at with my girlfriend

41:20

and her daughter, and they showed

41:22

up at my best friend's house.

41:25

They said I was under investigation for pretty

41:28

much saying I was going to murder

41:30

the attorney general. This

41:33

was on November 3rd, 2020, the same

41:35

day of the presidential election, and

41:37

Bryce says the cops seemed on edge.

41:40

So they patted me down and it was really

41:42

light. First off, like

41:45

for your listeners, I'm not trying to be amusement or

41:47

poke fun and stuff like that, but it was almost

41:49

like they were still scared,

41:52

in whatever way. It was like they were still afraid,

41:55

like something still, you

41:58

know what I mean? It was weird.

42:00

They take Bryce's assault rifle from his home, but

42:03

they don't arrest him. Bryce isn't

42:05

being charged with a crime. Instead,

42:08

local prosecutors use the evidence the

42:10

FBI collected to ask a court to

42:12

take away Bryce's gun for a year under

42:15

Colorado's so-called red flag law. Bryce

42:18

is a potential threat to the community, prosecutors

42:21

argue. Local media run

42:23

with the story.

42:24

His name is Bryce Jordan

42:26

Shelby, and this is his mugshot

42:29

from 2011. Law enforcement officials

42:31

present Bryce's case as if the assassination

42:34

plot was something a lot more than

42:36

it was. This is from the local

42:38

Fox affiliate, KDVR. ...accuses

42:40

Bryce Jordan Sidney Shelby of surveilling

42:43

Attorney General Phil Weiser's home. The

42:45

29-year-old is now accused of plotting to

42:47

shoot Attorney General Phil Weiser

42:50

in the head. ...planning to shoot the state's top law

42:52

enforcement official in the head. ...does

42:54

not care if AG Weiser's wife, dog,

42:56

or children have to die in the process.

43:01

To be sure, what Bryce talked about doing was

43:03

bad. Really bad.

43:06

But talk is all it was.

43:08

Confused talk about the district attorney, I mean,

43:11

the attorney general,

43:12

lost her,

43:14

and little semblance of a plan.

43:16

A plan after all that Mickey,

43:18

the undercover FBI informant, was

43:20

the first to suggest. In

43:22

a court hearing, a Denver police detective testifies

43:25

that the FBI had reached what he called an impasse

43:28

and had not been able to build a prosecutable criminal

43:30

case against Bryce. But a judge

43:33

agrees to confiscate Bryce's firearms for

43:35

a year. Probably gets a little blurred

43:38

because I did say certain things, so that's

43:42

whatever they're in some way to put

43:44

it for intent, you know what I mean?

43:47

But, yeah, not going through with any kind of plan.

43:49

Payments, like that. Yeah, no.

43:52

You know what I mean? No.

43:57

Is Mickey still working for the FBI? I've

44:01

been trying to answer that question.

44:03

The FBI press office declined to make anyone

44:05

available for an interview and refused

44:07

to provide written responses to a list of questions

44:09

I sent. While reporting the

44:11

story, I met with a lot of people who knew Mickey.

44:14

Most were terrified of him, and

44:16

many didn't want to be recorded or have their names

44:18

revealed. Several of these

44:20

people told me the same thing. Mickey

44:23

isn't in Denver any longer. But

44:26

then I got this one tip. My

44:28

best chance of finding him?

44:30

Go to his old apartment. The

44:33

guy who lives there, I was told, is

44:36

Mickey's close friend.

44:37

Hello?

44:49

I can see inside, through the closed

44:51

screen door, the apartment is

44:53

a mess. Piles of stuff everywhere.

44:57

Strangely, several vacuum cleaners lined

45:00

up against the wall. One of the bedroom

45:02

doors is closed, and no one's

45:04

responding.

45:06

So I write a note to leave along with my business

45:09

card and say, I'm

45:11

interested in speaking with Mickey, but

45:13

it's work for the FBI.

45:15

Can I leave?

45:23

And later that evening, I

45:25

get a surprise when

45:28

Mickey

45:29

actually calls me.

45:33

I missed a call, and it goes to voicemail.

45:36

Yeah, this is Michael Vinbacher.

45:38

This is the voicemail

45:39

in its entirety.

45:41

Lynn, you know right now,

45:43

that address you went to a post in that piece of paper

45:45

saying that I worked for the FBI. I don't live there. I

45:48

haven't lived there in months. But if you post

45:50

something, a story about me saying supposedly I worked for

45:52

the FBI, I will sue the **** out of you. I

45:55

will take you to court, and I will break you off

45:57

in court for defamation of the character of Slender. my

46:00

attorney about this. My previous

46:02

landlord notified me and sent me these papers

46:05

that you put on the old door I used to live

46:07

out stating that I worked for the FBI. I

46:10

do not work for the FBI. I've never worked for the

46:12

FBI. If you approve of me working

46:14

for the FBI, then I'll say otherwise.

46:17

But there's no proof because I didn't work for them. Don't

46:19

be posting stuff on my old apartments where

46:22

my neighbors, my old neighbors are thinking that I'm an FBI

46:25

consultant or whatever the hell it is, okay? If

46:28

you do that again, I promise

46:30

you, I will sue you. That's a guarantee.

46:33

Don't do that again. Don't come

46:35

to my old house. Don't be posting stuff

46:37

that's not true.

46:40

Mickey didn't call from a blocked number.

46:43

So I call him back and

46:46

he answers. Hello.

46:49

Hi, this is Trevor. I'm sorry, Mr. Call.

46:52

Yeah, Trevor, this is Michael Vindexter. I

46:54

got a call from my landlord as you posted a note

46:56

on my old apartment. They used to say that

46:58

was an FBI consultant or something

47:00

like that. Yeah, so I'm a journalist

47:03

and I'm doing a story on your work

47:05

with the FBI during the summer of 2020. And

47:08

I've been trying to reach you.

47:09

I worked for the FBI here in 2020.

47:12

You did. I have records and video

47:15

and audio proving this. Records

47:17

and video and audio of me working with the FBI. That's

47:20

just kind of weird because I didn't work with the FBI.

47:22

You were paid $5,000 every two weeks during

47:26

your work with them. That's

47:28

not true. Well, that's what the records say. But

47:30

I would love to talk to you about this. I'd

47:34

like to interview you about your work during the summer of 2020.

47:36

No. See,

47:39

the thing I don't do is I don't talk to the press. I don't talk

47:41

to politicians and I don't talk to police cells.

47:44

Mickey then threatens again to sue

47:46

me for defamation if I report that he worked

47:48

for the FBI.

47:51

And he hangs up. Mickey

47:53

Windecker's undercover work yielded

47:56

few results for the FBI. Bryce

48:00

Shelby was never charged with a crime.

48:03

The other protester, Zeb Hall, pleaded

48:05

guilty to transferring a firearm to

48:07

a felon after buying that gun for

48:09

Mickey. But based on information

48:11

revealed in Alphabet Boys, a federal

48:14

judge has since appointed a new lawyer

48:16

for Zeb, who's now asking to withdraw

48:18

his plea. In short,

48:21

the FBI did not find racial justice

48:23

activists in Denver who were willing

48:25

to cross the line into terrorism. But

48:28

as the FBI investigated protesters on

48:30

the left, far-right extremists

48:33

were growing in power. Within

48:35

months, groups like the Proud Boys

48:38

would help lead the insurrection on the U.S.

48:40

Capitol, a staggering intelligence

48:42

failure for the FBI. After

48:46

the release of the Alphabet Boys podcast, Democratic

48:48

Senator Ron Wyden called the FBI

48:51

operation a clear abuse of authority,

48:54

and the ACLU of Colorado filed a lawsuit

48:56

in federal court alleging that

48:59

some of the surveillance and police searches revealed

49:01

in the podcast were a violation

49:03

of constitutional protections. What

49:07

you heard today is just a taste of Alphabet

49:10

Boys. I listen to all 10 episodes

49:12

of season one. There is so much more than

49:14

what you heard today. I absolutely recommend

49:16

it. Season two is out now.

49:19

Search Alphabet Boys wherever you get

49:21

your podcasts. Today's

49:30

show was written and reported by Trevor Aronson. Alphabet Boys is a production

49:32

of Western Sound, which, by the way, provided

49:35

to reveal that phone recording and voicemail you heard earlier.

49:39

The Western Sound team includes executive producer Ben Adair, editor

49:43

Colin McNulty, and producer Nicole McNulty. Brett

49:46

Myers also edited today's show with help from

49:49

Kate Howard. The production assistant and fact checker

49:51

for today's episode is Eleanor Knight, our

49:53

digital producer in the United States. Our

49:56

digital producer is Nicky Frick. Victoria

49:59

Baranetsky is... is Reveals General Keenan. Our

50:03

production managers are Steven Rascone and

50:05

Zulema Cobb. Original music

50:07

for today's episode is by Alex McInnis,

50:10

sound design by Alex and Dan Leon, with

50:12

help from the dynamic duo, Jay Breezy,

50:15

Mr. Jim Briggs and Fernando Mamanjo

50:17

Arruda. Our CEO is Robert Rosenthal.

50:20

Our COO is Maria Feldman. Our

50:22

interim executive producers are Taki Telenides

50:24

and Brett Myers. Our theme music is by

50:26

Comorado, Lightning. Support for Reveal

50:29

is provided by the Riva and David Logan Foundation,

50:31

the Ford Foundation, the John D. and Catherine

50:34

T. MacArthur Foundation, the Jonathan Logan

50:36

Family Foundation, the Robert Wood Johnson

50:38

Foundation, the Park Foundation, and the

50:40

Hellman Foundation. Reveal is a

50:42

co-production of the Center for Investigative Reporting

50:45

and PRX. I'm Al Letzen,

50:47

and remember, there is always more to

50:49

the story. Thank

51:10

you.