0:15

Pushkin.

0:18

Hello, Hello Malcolm here. We'll

0:20

be back in your feed this Thursday with our brand

0:22

new season of revisionist history, all

0:24

about the nineteen thirty six Olympics. It's

0:27

called Hitler's Olympics. But

0:29

while we wait, I want to tell you about another podcast

0:32

I'm working on. It's called Medal

0:34

of Honor Stories of Courage. It'll

0:36

be it on Wednesday, June twenty sixth

0:39

anywhere you get your podcasts, and today

0:41

we're sharing an early preview. The

0:44

Medal of Honor is the highest military

0:46

decoration in the United States. Since

0:48

it was established in eighteen sixty

0:50

one, there have been three thousand, five

0:52

hundred and seventeen people awarded

0:54

with the medal. Our new podcast from

0:57

Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia

0:59

is about Medal of Honor recipients from the

1:01

Civil War to the Iraq War.

1:03

We'll tell you stories about what makes a hero, the

1:06

true nature's sacrifice, and what

1:08

happened after you've become

1:10

a hero. Here's a clip from

1:12

the show. If you enjoy it, search

1:15

Medal of Honor Stories of Courage in

1:17

your favorite podcast player and

1:19

you can hear the rest of the episode starting

1:22

Wednesday.

1:25

It was the fall of nineteen seventy two, the

1:27

waning days of the Vietnam War, American

1:30

troops have been sent home, leaving the South

1:32

Vietnamese to keep fighting on their own. President

1:35

Richard Nixon called this policy Vietnamization.

1:39

We can continue our program of

1:41

withdrawing American forces without detriment

1:44

to our overall goal of ensuring

1:46

South Vietnam's survival as an independent

1:48

country.

1:49

There were fewer than twenty Navy Seals

1:52

left in the country by that point. They were

1:54

there to quote unquote advise

1:56

the South Vietnamese military. In

1:58

reality, the seals were running missions

2:00

at the front lines and sometimes

2:03

dangerously behind them. On

2:05

October thirtieth, Petty Officer Michael

2:07

Thorton was about to set out on one of those

2:10

missions. Thornton's hometown

2:12

was Spartanburg, South Carolina. He

2:14

was six foot two, thickly muscled,

2:17

with a reputation for carrying twice the loads

2:19

of ammunition as other guys. Alongside

2:22

burns, a cleft chin, and an elvis

2:24

pout. His fellow seals called

2:26

him the Mighty thor At

2:29

seventeen, he had been given the choice

2:31

between reform school and the military.

2:34

He chose the military. With him

2:36

that night in October was Lieutenant Thomas

2:38

Norris. Tommy Norris was

2:40

twenty eight, a seasoned officer. He

2:42

cast a completely different shadow than Mike Thornton.

2:45

He was fine boned and wiry, five

2:47

foot six, one hundred and twenty pounds soaking

2:50

wet. A high school wrestling champion

2:52

back home in Maryland, his nickname

2:54

was Nasty Norris. There was

2:56

nobody tougher. The two

2:58

seals knew each other, even though they'd never been

3:00

on a mission together before. There were so

3:03

few seals left that they all knew each other. When

3:05

Tommy was asked to choose one other seal to accompany

3:08

him on a scouting mission, he chose Mike,

3:10

the Mighty thor and Nasty

3:12

Norris. They

3:15

were meant to investigate a naval base that

3:17

had been taken just a few months earlier by

3:19

the North Vietnamese Army during its

3:21

relentless southward march. The

3:24

seals knew they were entering dangerous territory,

3:26

so they planned to do their reconnaissance under cover

3:28

of darkness. A Navy ship

3:30

got them close than a dinghy closer,

3:33

and finally Tommy, Mike, and three

3:36

South Vietnamese Navy men dropped

3:38

over the sides into the South China Sea

3:40

and swam silently to shore.

3:43

Everything that could go wrong

3:46

was about to go wrong. I'm

3:51

Malcolm Glawell and this is Medal of Honor Stories

3:54

of Courage. The Medal of Honor

3:56

is the highest military decoration in

3:58

the United States, awarded for gallantry

4:01

and bravery in combat at the risk

4:03

of life, above and beyond the call of duty.

4:06

The Medal of Honor was established in eighteen sixty

4:08

one at the outset of the Civil

4:11

War. There have been three thousand,

4:13

five hundred and seventeen people awarded

4:15

the medal. Since each candidate

4:18

must be approved all the way up the

4:20

chain of command, from the supervisory

4:22

officer on the field to the highest

4:24

office in our nation, It's not

4:27

just approved by the Secretary of Defense, it

4:29

has to be agreed to by the President.

4:32

This show is about those heroes, what

4:35

they did, what it meant, and

4:37

what their stories tell us about

4:39

the nature of courage. And

4:42

this episode is about what happened on

4:44

Halloween nineteen seventy two.

5:02

It was one am. The five soldiers

5:05

reached the shore. They were looking for

5:07

an enemy occupied naval base on

5:09

the southernmost outskirts of North

5:11

Vietnamese Territory, a place in the

5:14

North Vietnamese Army they referred

5:16

to them as the NVA would have just started

5:18

to settle down in but something

5:21

seemed off. From

5:23

what they could tell in the moonlight, this was

5:26

not some newly settled encampment. Later,

5:29

Mike Thoughton would remember how he felt

5:31

in that moment when he realized

5:34

they'd been dropped off miles north of

5:36

their intended target.

5:38

We're walking through areas. It had been no way

5:40

inhale.

5:40

They could have built all the stuff up in two months,

5:43

so right then we knew it were away north.

5:46

Listen to his tone, by the way, he sounds

5:48

like he's describing how he went to the grocery store

5:50

and realized he forgot his shopping list at home.

5:53

Mike saw bunkers the size of hotel

5:55

buildings, weapons, soldiers

5:57

sleeping on mats on the ground. They'd been

5:59

dropped on top of a major North Vietnamese

6:02

Army installation. The seals crept

6:04

along in a line, hunched over so as

6:06

not to be spotted. Tommy was

6:08

at the Mike was

6:10

at the rear. Between them were the three

6:13

South Vietnamese Navy men. Mike

6:15

had gone on previous missions with two of them,

6:17

Deng and Kwan, and hand picked

6:19

them for that night. Both of them were

6:22

confident, seasoned in combat, and

6:24

unflappable in the face of danger. Mike

6:27

liked and trusted them both. Third

6:30

was a young and inexperienced officer, Lieutenant

6:33

Ty. Mike kept creeping

6:35

up to Tommy to check if Tommy was seeing

6:37

what he was seeing.

6:39

They had tanks and gun and placements. They had

6:41

guys with big bonfire, so we knew they

6:43

were afraid of, you know, letting them know

6:45

who they were. And I'm being

6:47

down.

6:47

As falls, I say, Tommy, you see this. Yeah.

6:52

By the time they confirmed their suspicions, they

6:54

were five miles from where they dropped in. It

6:56

would be light soon. There was no chance

6:58

they could get back to see before daylight came, so

7:01

Tommy decided that their best hope for survival

7:03

would be to return to the beach hide

7:06

out between the dunes, radio for help

7:08

and wait for night to fall again. Once

7:10

it was dark, they'd swim back out to see

7:12

and be extracted silently.

7:15

Stealthily, they worked their way back to the beach.

7:18

They waded through a stream and waste high

7:20

water all the way.

7:21

We could move much faster than the water, and

7:24

we wouldn't have to worry about stumbling over somebody's

7:26

sleeping because we could hear guy snore, and it was unbelievable.

7:29

Once they made it to the beach, the five men

7:31

split up and hid behind two large dunes.

7:34

There was a lagoon to one side a wide

7:37

swath of open sand to the other. The

7:39

sun was rising and they settled into

7:41

the long wait for darkness. But

7:43

then they saw two North Vietnamese

7:46

on patrol.

7:47

Kwan come flying around and tapped

7:50

me and tapped them on his shoulder and

7:52

gave him the sun for two enemies back there.

7:54

So I went back around and saw these guys

7:57

coming. I could just see their silhouettes.

7:59

They knew they needed to capture or kill them. Discovery

8:02

would be catastrophic. Mike crept

8:04

up behind one and cold cocked him.

8:07

Kwan tied him up, gagged him, and

8:09

dragged him out of sight. Mike silently

8:11

signaled to Lieutenant Tie to eliminate

8:13

the other one, but instead Ty

8:15

called out to the soldier and ordered

8:18

him to stop.

8:19

He didn't stop, and that guy had an

8:21

AK forty seven.

8:22

He was about three hundred yards away and he opened fired

8:25

up on tie tied, dropped

8:27

down and started running back towards me. So

8:29

he's running back towards me, and I'm running past

8:31

him because I'm trying to get this guy. Because

8:34

we could see that he was heading for the village.

8:37

The North Vietnamese soldier was running

8:39

back to where he came from, firing off shots

8:41

to alert everyone to the situation of the dunes.

8:44

Mike was in pursuit.

8:46

So I'm hauling can and

8:48

I stopped on one knee, took two breasts and

8:50

cranked off two rounds to hit him in the back, and the guy

8:52

fell. But when I looked up, there

8:55

was a quick reaction for us coming with the village

8:57

with about fifty guys.

8:59

You can picture it, right, a huge

9:02

group of men descending on Mike.

9:05

Mike knew he had only one option run,

9:09

so I.

9:09

Turn around started running back and

9:12

Tommy sees me running back and

9:14

here's all these bullets going off and he don't see me

9:16

shooting, So he knew like hell that we were in

9:18

a world of trouble.

9:22

A world of trouble that's

9:24

where medal of honor stories are made, in

9:26

the places where the odds are so long and

9:28

the risk is so great that it will take an

9:31

act of extreme bravery for anyone to

9:33

survive. But where

9:35

does that bravery come from. That's

9:38

one of the questions that got me so obsessed with Medal

9:40

of Honor stories, because I think sometimes

9:43

we just assume that courage is a trait, something

9:46

you're born with, and that what happens

9:48

in moments like on that Vietnam beach is

9:50

that we suddenly learn who has it and

9:52

who doesn't. One of the things

9:54

that happens when you listen to enough Medal

9:57

of Honor stories is that you begin to realize

9:59

that courage is not a birthright, it's

10:01

a choice. Mike

10:04

was being chased by a massive North Vietnamese

10:07

soldiers. Tommy saw him hauling can

10:09

back towards the group and fired a rocket

10:11

at a tree, exploding it and creating

10:14

enough of a diversion so Mike could dive

10:16

back into the dunes. It was

10:19

total chaos because

10:21

now they were being strafed with bullets. Tommy

10:23

was desperately radioing for help. He

10:25

needed a ship to send cover fire and

10:27

drive the NVA back. Two

10:30

Navy warships wanted to come to their

10:32

aid, but they didn't know where the seals were.

10:34

Any help was hours away. It

10:37

was a series of problems that would

10:39

seem overwhelming to anyone,

10:42

but Mike broke down the big problems

10:45

into components. They

10:47

were five against an entire

10:49

encampment of NVA, but the

10:51

NVA didn't know how many of them there were, right,

10:54

So solution number one make

10:57

it look like they were ten or twenty of them.

10:59

So Mike started impersonating

11:02

an entire seal platoon.

11:04

And soon as I saw the top of their head coming up, I'd take

11:06

about a inch shot and saying I'd get a headshot

11:08

every time. If I take a couple of shots like

11:10

that, I'd roll over and come out in another position.

11:12

They didn't know if we had fifteen people in there

11:15

or five.

11:16

Mike keeps shooting, ducking, and rolling for

11:18

hours, and then someone threw a

11:20

grenade over the top of the dune.

11:23

And I just screamed out and I got hit

11:25

six times. When my back was wrapping them. You

11:28

could hear them Tommy yelling Mike, Buddy, Mike, but he just

11:30

saw me laying on my back and I said. I

11:32

didn't say a word, and about four guys

11:34

came over and I was laying on my back and I eliminated

11:37

all four of those guys. Two fell on my side,

11:39

the two fell back, and Tommy was

11:41

watching what was going on.

11:43

Mike was on his back, expecting a surge

11:45

of more Norse Vietnamese any moment. Now they

11:48

knew he was hit, but instead the

11:51

action just stopped.

11:54

Tommy yelled down at me and said, they're falling back. We

11:56

couldn't understand where they were falling back, and

11:58

they had had lost a great number of their

12:01

unit and to do this, and

12:04

I still don't think they ever knew exactly how many

12:06

people we Hadde.

12:09

Islands descended on the beach. Everything

12:12

went eerily still. The five

12:14

men began to regroup, got cautiously

12:16

hopeful. Had their strategy actually

12:19

worked.

12:20

No, it hadn't, Tommy,

12:23

he said, while they're falling back, and I said, pointed

12:25

across the lagoon, and we started recounted

12:27

a great number of NVA

12:30

troops coming from both sides around the

12:32

lagoon.

12:33

They were close to one hundred North Vietnamese

12:35

troops. They were now outnumbered twenty

12:38

to one. Tommy realized

12:40

they needed a better position. He spied

12:43

a dune in the distance that would give them a potential

12:45

defense. The NBA would have to

12:47

cross nearly a quarter of a mile of

12:49

open sand to reach them.

12:51

There.

12:52

In theory, they could pick them off one by

12:54

one if they could hold

12:56

onto the high ground for that long. Tommy

12:58

decided that Mike, Kwan and Lieutenant

13:00

Tye would run for the dune first. He

13:03

and Dang would come after. The three

13:05

started sprinting, crossing the five

13:07

hundred yards of sand to the new dune.

13:11

So we fell back. And while

13:13

I was yelling Tommy, fall back, fall back,

13:15

and I could see Dang. And this was like one

13:17

o'clock, one thirty in the afternoon, because

13:19

the firefight had gone on for over five hours,

13:22

was running down the doone by himself. And he

13:24

was running by himself, and I said, I grabbed and Sir, worse,

13:26

Tommy said, Mike.

13:27

Now he's dead. And I saw Are

13:29

you sure? Said? He said, he was shot in the head. He's

13:31

dead.

13:34

Tommy, the leader of the team, was

13:37

shot in the head and dead. Mike

13:39

trusted Dang. They'd been on missions

13:41

together before his hand picked him

13:43

for this one. Dang knew what he'd seen,

13:46

and Mike had no reason not to believe him.

13:49

The situation for the rest of them was getting

13:51

more dangerous by the minute. The

13:53

team was about to be surrounded by North Vietnamese

13:56

soldiers, but seals have

13:58

a core value leave no

14:01

man behind. So Mike decided

14:03

he would go and get Tommy, putting

14:06

principal above self preservation.

14:09

I said, stay here, I'll go back and meet tom and

14:12

Kwan and Dane both grabbed me and held me. He

14:14

said no, Mike, you stay and I said no, I'm going back.

14:16

Y'all stay here, you cover me.

14:18

Mike ran back across the beach, back

14:20

almost a quarter of a mile, directly

14:23

into the gunfire. He reached Tommy

14:25

just as five North Vietnamese soldiers did,

14:28

and he shot them all.

14:30

I picked Tommy up.

14:31

He was shot through the left temple and

14:34

the bullet had exited through his forehead

14:36

and the whole front level part of his front brain

14:38

was gone. His cheekbone was gone,

14:40

his eye sucker was completely gone, and

14:43

I thought he was dead.

14:45

On some level, it didn't matter if Tommy

14:48

was alive or dead. Mike knew he

14:50

wasn't leaving that beach without

14:52

him. We'll

14:54

be right back