Episode Transcript
Transcripts are displayed as originally observed. Some content, including advertisements may have changed.
Use Ctrl + F to search
0:00
This week's episode is brought to you by
0:02
Trade coffee. Did
0:03
you know that ninety percent coffee in the grocery
0:06
store is actually stale. You heard
0:08
that right coffee, you know, and thank you.
0:10
Love needs an upgrade and instead
0:12
of buying the same old, same old electric
0:14
coffee, send you something roasted that
0:16
you're literally guaranteed to love you.
0:19
Take a coffee quiz to get started, then trade
0:21
calculates, flavor profile and start
0:23
sending you. The freshest roasted an ethically,
0:25
sourced beans from America's best independent, Roasters
0:27
Coffee
0:28
guarantees. You'll love your first bag or
0:30
if they will replace it for free. And after
0:33
that the subscription is no hassle. You can
0:35
skip shipments or cancel. Anytime this
0:37
week. I a bag from Feast coffee and culture
0:40
in Redding, California specifically, the
0:42
power and Glory blend. It's
0:44
great. So, shout out to feast in Redding,
0:46
California for making great cup of coffee. For
0:49
listeners of our show right now, Trade coffee
0:51
is offering total of $20 off your first three
0:54
When you go to drink, trade.com revolutions.
0:57
To get started, take their quiz at Drink Trade,
1:00
Dot.com, com Slash Revolutions and start
1:02
your journey to your perfect cup. That
1:04
drink trade.com revolutions
1:06
for $20. Off your first bags.
1:08
This
1:09
week's episode is also brought to you by ritual.
1:12
powders can be intimidating. But
1:15
the fact is we all need protein.
1:17
It's pretty important ritual.
1:19
Essential protein is a delicious plant-based
1:22
protein powder with three distinct. Formulyst
1:24
designed to meet the body's changing protein
1:26
needs. You can keep it simple and
1:29
just Add Water, Shake it up and sip.
1:31
But we here in the Duncan house. Take
1:33
all the good stuff and ritual protein powder and
1:35
put it in our smoothies every morning. That's
1:37
how we like to it. It Blends great. It
1:39
tastes great, and it's become part of our
1:41
well ritual. No,
1:44
one of great things ritual, is there transparent
1:46
supply chain, every labeled.
1:48
ingredient comes with information about what and
1:51
how and why it came to be in the bag. And
1:53
it's all sustainably source. The Peace
1:56
Art regenerative Lee Ground in the United
1:58
States. Ready to shake
2:00
up your protein rich one. My listeners get
2:02
10% off during your first three months at
2:04
ritual, revolutions
2:07
ritual, even offers money back
2:09
guarantee. if not hundred percent in love,
2:11
visit ritual.com,
2:13
revolutions today for
2:15
10% off your first three months.
2:21
Hello and welcome to
2:23
Revolutions.
2:27
Episode
2:29
10.87. Or
2:32
here. Last
2:36
time we talked about the ongoing transformation
2:38
of Russia into a centralized one party
2:40
regime. Which increasingly
2:43
took the form of elected Soviet
2:45
of soldiers, workers and peasant deputies.
2:48
The, which functionally became an appendage of the Communist
2:50
Party. And as we discussed
2:53
this transformation, cause tension, resentment
2:55
and finally outright revolt in many areas
2:58
controlled by the Communists. But
3:00
we also discussed how this was all taking place inside
3:02
the context of larger civil war. That
3:05
many of those frustrated with the Communists. Ultimately
3:08
concluded that the Reds, however annoying
3:10
they were, are. We're better than the Whites.
3:13
This week we're gonna talk about region where this
3:16
mess of social unrest and political
3:18
tension and military necessity combined
3:20
with particular volatility. Ukraine.
3:25
Since the treaty abreast with task, the
3:27
armies of the central powers had been occupying Ukraine.
3:31
But there capitulation is on the western front
3:33
in the autumn of Nineteen Eighteen meant.
3:35
that they were now going to be forced to withdraw This
3:38
withdraw would leave a gaping
3:40
power vacuum that left much of Ukraine
3:42
in state of anarchy. And
3:44
I don't mean that is a pejorative synonym
3:47
for chaos and disorder, although
3:49
there was an awful lot of that going around. I
3:51
mean, a literal state of anarchy. Because
3:54
Ukraine was the place where the black flag
3:56
flying anarchists enjoyed the greatest
3:58
success at establishing. Their vision
4:01
for what post revolutionary society ought
4:03
to look like. And depending
4:05
on who you talk to you. They either
4:07
provided viable blueprint for an
4:09
alternative to the creeping authoritarianism
4:11
of the Communist. Or they
4:13
were simply tossing off half baked ideas
4:15
that were never going to survive prolonged contact with
4:18
reality. Either
4:20
way, there is no way to tell the story
4:22
of the Russian revolution without discussing
4:24
the Ukrainian anarchists. And specifically
4:27
their greatest leader. Nestor
4:29
mock know. Nestor
4:31
mock know was born in eighteen eighty
4:33
nine in who iPad. Small
4:35
rural city in south east Ukraine, situated
4:38
east of the Nipper River and north of
4:40
the sea of As off. His parents
4:42
had both been born serfs and were liberated
4:44
by the emancipation decree of eighteen, sixty
4:46
one. They were still extremely
4:48
poor at the time of his. Compounding
4:51
the families misfortunes mock knows father
4:54
died when he was just ten months old. Little
4:56
Nestor was the youngest of five children. Then
4:59
he received only few years primary
5:01
education. As student,
5:03
he was noted for being bright and clever.
5:06
But also extremely headstrong and rebellious.
5:09
He didn't last long in school, though my mostly
5:11
because the families economic circumstances
5:14
forced him to go out and work for wages. The
5:16
took his first paying job at the age of just seven.
5:20
Mark Know spent what was left of his childhood working
5:22
in the fields for wages before moving on
5:24
to assorted other odd jobs. Wherever
5:27
you went, the story was always the same. Right
5:29
to capable. Rebellious and
5:31
on discipline. McNeill
5:34
came equipped with an instinctive hostility
5:36
to authority that was compounded by
5:38
life spent working for various landlords
5:40
and state managers. The you never
5:42
did go back to school and so unlike
5:44
most of the other revolutionaries we've talked about,
5:47
mock know was not radicalized at university
5:49
before advancing on to the coffee houses.
5:52
In fact, he developed something of loaning for those
5:54
kind of intelligentsia radicals who had
5:56
no real connection to the things they were talking
5:58
about. And in fact, Mac
6:00
No actually was what many coffee
6:03
house Russian revolutionaries idolized:
6:05
"I could never be themselves" True
6:08
revolutionary peasant. Lucknow
6:11
first got into politics as teenager in the wake
6:14
of the revolution of nineteen or five. Attracted
6:16
to the fundamentally anti authority message
6:18
of anarchism. He joined small anarchist
6:21
group in his hometown of who, like born in nineteen
6:23
oh sex. Their group numbered
6:25
in the mirror doesn't but. we're committed
6:28
to continuing the revolutionary struggle even
6:30
in these reactionary days of this to
6:32
leap an era The group
6:34
engaged in both revolutionary expropriations,
6:37
which is to say robberies as well as
6:39
revolutionary strikes against the enemies of the people.
6:42
Which is to say bombings and arson of local
6:44
A states. He was arrested
6:46
once in held for ten months before being released
6:48
without charges even being from. And
6:51
any a chronic infiltrated the group? And
6:53
after several shootout with the police, Mac Know
6:55
was arrested again. Several
6:57
of his comrades were hanged and he
6:59
himself was sentenced to death. But
7:02
this sentence was commuted down to life
7:04
in prison on account of his alleged
7:07
useful and maturity. transferred
7:09
to prison in Moscow, young mock know wound
7:12
up amidst other better and political prisoners.
7:15
And as we've seen before. Russian prisons
7:17
turned out to be great place to get further radicalized.
7:20
In particular, mock know met guy computer
7:23
are seen off who school him and
7:25
anarchism slipping him smuggled copies
7:27
of by coonan and Kropotkin. These
7:30
books, gay form and voice to mock knows own
7:32
instinctive loading of authority. And
7:34
he became committed anarchist. Placing
7:36
the blame for most social ills and injustices
7:39
on the nature political authority itself. And
7:41
believing the common people would be just fine running
7:43
their own affairs without the need for any
7:46
parasitic, an exploitive state
7:48
apparatus. McNabb
7:51
was still sitting in prison at the age of twenty seven
7:53
when the February revolution hit. He
7:55
and all the other political prisoners were amnestied
7:58
and set for it. He returned
8:00
home to her libel and immediately started
8:02
working to organize the local population. Putting
8:05
into practice the things he had learned in prison.
8:08
Mark Know turned out to be naturally charismatic
8:10
leader. Then, in the post February Revolution,
8:13
era became forceful advocate
8:15
for direct appropriation of land by the peasants.
8:18
These were the days when the provisional government and
8:20
Petra Grad was dragging their feet on the land
8:22
question and we talk about how the peasant
8:24
out there just started taking matters into their own
8:26
hands. Mr
8:28
Mac Know was one of those taking power
8:30
into his own hands. Human
8:33
strikes and work stoppages. organize
8:35
volunteer armed bands to go disarm local
8:37
law enforcement and simply sees
8:39
state land and redistribute them to the peasants.
8:42
The asking neither permission nor forgiveness.
8:46
It was during this period and nineteen seventeen, Mac
8:48
Know gained reputation as sort of revolutionary
8:50
Robinho. rallying the locals
8:52
under the slogan "Land and Liberty" Not
8:55
unlike is Mexican counterparts, Emilio
8:57
know supporter. Who had been doing the same
8:59
thing for years and Mexican state morale
9:01
of? Doing of their own initiative
9:04
with their own people. What be educated,
9:06
big city intellectuals only talked
9:09
about doing? This
9:11
initial period of revolutionary anarchism was
9:13
up ended by the treaty brusquely task and
9:15
the invasion of Ukraine by the central powers. This
9:19
invasion was ostensibly welcome by the
9:21
leaders of the rada. Their self declared
9:23
Ukrainian People's Republic. And
9:26
also refined and recognized by
9:28
the Russian Bolsheviks. Mock
9:30
know, in his comrades, we're aghast at betrayal of
9:32
the people of Ukraine. There wasn't anything
9:34
they could do about it. The had
9:36
small partisan band who were sturdy,
9:39
loyal and top. But they were going
9:41
to be able to fend off hundreds of thousands of invading
9:43
Germans, Austrians and Hungarians. Though
9:46
instead, they settled into life resisting
9:48
the occupation wind and where they could. And
9:51
protecting local peasants from abuses by
9:53
the occupation authorities. In
9:56
the early summer of nineteen, eighteen mock know
9:58
embarked on tour of Russia to.
10:00
Support for the Ukrainian resistance,
10:02
eventually, winding his way to Moscow,
10:04
and July, according
10:06
to mock knows Memoir while in Moscow.
10:08
He had two important meetings first
10:11
with an agent, Republican, who
10:13
offered him Sage advice. and cautious
10:15
encouragement. The other
10:18
was an audience with Lennon in the crowd.
10:21
According to mock know, Lenin quizzed
10:23
him on the situation in Ukraine, bemoaned
10:25
the contagion of anarchism. But
10:28
finally admitted that they were at least probably
10:30
fighting on the same some it. Lucknow
10:33
provide a detailed description of this conversation
10:35
and his depiction of Lenin certainly tracks
10:37
with when his personality. What
10:39
it is worth mentioning that so far as I can
10:41
tell? Mock knows memoir is the
10:44
only evidence we have that he ever met personally
10:46
with Luna. There's apparently no
10:48
other contemporaneous record schedule,
10:51
calendar entry or note from
10:53
anyone working inside the Kremlin at the time
10:55
that confirms that this meeting ever took place. Which
10:58
doesn't mean that it didn't just that it's not
11:00
entirely clear that it dead. From
11:03
Moscow mock no return to whom pull
11:05
and found things had gotten worse in his absence.
11:08
The occupation forces were rooting out all his
11:10
comrades. His mother's home had been
11:12
burned to the ground, his brother had been shot.
11:16
He also discovered that about he had been placed on his
11:18
own head and he had to go into hiding.
11:21
But it would be a very active hiding,
11:24
not passive hiding. Mac
11:26
Know started organizing and arming local
11:28
forces to commence more deliberate
11:30
guerrilla campaign against the occupation.
11:33
And it was during this period in the second half of Nineteen
11:35
Eighteen. That his reputation as an
11:37
innovative military strategist and tactician
11:40
group. The wound up running an
11:42
exemplary guerrilla campaign built on speed.
11:45
mobility surprise local knowledge
11:47
and loyal camaraderie. Is
11:50
growing forces were supported by the peasants
11:52
with food supplies and information? They
11:54
could gather strike and disperse before the
11:56
enemy forces, mostly Austrian
11:58
soldiers, could respond. He
12:01
famously pioneered the use of mounting
12:03
machine guns on for strong current to
12:05
strike targets with deadly speed. And
12:08
while military affairs to get most of his attention,
12:10
mock know also became quite the anarchist
12:13
proselytizer. He delivered
12:15
passionate political speeches and every town
12:17
and village he passed through. Always
12:19
and everywhere promising the people what they want
12:21
it. The land and liberty.
12:24
His courage and battle and steadfast commitment
12:26
to the safety of the local population earned
12:29
him the affectionate honorific, bought go.
12:31
Or little father. And
12:34
as much as Mark know hated all forms of authority.
12:36
The was earning quite bit of it for himself.
12:41
This brings us to November nineteen eighteen when everything
12:43
gets turned upside down once again. The
12:46
defeated central powers had to renounce their
12:48
claim to Ukraine and prepare to withdraw
12:50
their forces. This
12:52
laugh be propped up reactionary regime
12:54
of admins grow apart, ski. Without
12:56
anything propping him up. Multiple
12:59
political factions gathered forces to overthrow
13:02
the hat minute. And within a matter of weeks
13:04
squarepants be band in Kiev and fled
13:06
into permanent ex. White
13:09
was precipitated by the advance of
13:11
those left leaning Ukrainian nationalists,
13:13
the had foreign the initial leadership of the run.
13:16
They took over Kiev on December nineteenth and
13:19
established new directory government to govern
13:21
what they were declaring to be restored
13:24
Ukrainian People's Republic. But
13:27
they were far from the only faction and play. Conservative
13:30
forces, who had supported the headman and
13:32
the occupation, waited in the wings
13:34
for an opportunity to launch counter revolution.
13:37
Meanwhile, on the border with Russia. There
13:40
loomed to force us. The
13:42
Russian communists were organizing an army
13:44
to support Ukrainian Soviet
13:46
socialist republic that would enter Ukraine
13:48
as soon as they were sure the army so the central powers
13:50
were fully withdrawn. There
13:52
are also white armies under general thing he can
13:55
also poised for an invasion. They
13:57
plan to take over Ukraine and use it as
13:59
for. The springboard. The capture, Moscow.
14:04
Meanwhile, anarchist groups like Mac nose
14:06
had no truck with any of these people. They
14:08
plan to carve out their own stateless society
14:10
free of all outside authority or interference.
14:14
At original Congress of insurgent leaders and
14:16
late nineteen eighteen. They organize
14:18
themselves into much larger force called
14:20
the revolutionary insurgent army
14:22
of Ukraine. Writing under the black
14:24
banner of anarchism. That know
14:27
became it overall leader. And
14:29
even though the insurgent army had it's own interests.
14:32
The brewing conflict over the future of Ukraine
14:34
was great time for enemies of enemies
14:37
to become friends. Mac
14:39
know identified for immediate enemies
14:41
for the insurgent army. The
14:43
forces who had propped up the head minute. The
14:46
withdrawing armies of the central powers. The
14:48
Dawn Cossacks and the White Russians,
14:50
who were aligned with then, Eakins won't hear early.
14:53
These last two were acutely important.
14:56
On January twelfth ninety nineteen, the White or
14:58
Mean launched an attack on the area controlled by
15:00
Mac Now. And on January twenty first,
15:03
they directly attacked with little. Racing
15:05
this threat mock know resolved on
15:08
an alliance with rebel faction he did not
15:10
include on his list of immediate threats but
15:12
who would entire be his political rivals. The
15:15
Russian Communist. Not
15:18
as moment the Red Army was preparing it's own
15:20
invasion of Ukraine and they were looking for local
15:22
military allies. The
15:24
Reds and the Blacks agreed to an
15:26
alliance of pure military convenience.
15:29
Knock Know agreed to integrate his insurgent
15:31
army into the organizational structure of
15:33
the Red Army and nominally submit
15:35
to orders from Red Army headquarters. But
15:38
the Ukrainian insurgents would maintain their own
15:41
internal structure. And in reality,
15:43
acted far closer to an independent auxiliary
15:46
force, then centrally controlled
15:48
subsidiary of the Red Army. The
15:51
Ukrainian front of the Red Army was now
15:53
under the command of Latimer and turn off
15:55
the guy who had overseen the capture the Winter Palace
15:58
during the October revolution. There's
16:00
worse has crossed into Ukraine and successfully
16:02
captured Kiev on February fifth. Installing
16:06
the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic
16:08
to replace the boosted Ukrainian
16:10
People's Republic. Good luck keeping
16:12
all of this straight. As
16:14
part of the offensive mock knows, horses participated
16:17
in battles against the Whites down in the Donbass region.
16:20
North of the sea of as off. As
16:22
result of the Black Army successes, the
16:24
territory controlled by Mac Know grew
16:27
even more. They soon control
16:29
large, autonomous own free from
16:31
all outside authority. Just
16:34
the way it like that. So
16:37
what I want to do now is turn to
16:39
what was going on inside disown during
16:41
the first half of nineteen nineteen. We're
16:45
talking about a loose blob of territory
16:47
comprising maybe seventy five thousand
16:49
square kilometers east of the need for
16:51
river and north of the see of as ot. It
16:54
had geographic and political center.
16:56
The in mock knows home town of who lives.
16:59
At it's maximum extent, it probably
17:02
covered population somewhere north of
17:04
seven million people. Mostly
17:06
these were agrarian peasants, but we also
17:09
have several small industrial cities with
17:11
the working class as the go along with them. The
17:14
population was also mostly Ukrainian.
17:16
But there were also Russians in the cities, as
17:19
well as significant population
17:21
of Jews. And in dealing
17:23
with the Jewish population, mock know
17:25
was famously virulent anti.
17:28
The anti semite. Most
17:31
of the people he had been fighting with since he was teenager
17:33
were Jewish and he detested
17:35
their persecution and abuse at the hands of anti
17:38
Semite. So while anti
17:40
Jewish programs tended to follow the advance
17:42
of practically all the army's running around to Ukraine.
17:45
Mac know wasn't having it. In
17:47
fact, he demanded the opposite. In
17:49
his mind, everybody was part of universal
17:52
brotherhood. rank bigotry
17:54
like anti semitism could not be tolerated.
17:57
It had to be eliminated root and branch. So
18:00
we find my nose, black army consistently
18:04
anti semitic. Though
18:06
this was not something every one in the ranks
18:08
embrace. He apparently had
18:10
one troop commander summarily shot for "exploitive
18:13
we rating Jewish settlements" Another
18:15
soldier was executed for waiting flag that
18:17
said, "beat the Jews and safe Russia"
18:21
The not known ultimate object, which
18:24
were all the people living in his own, to live
18:26
under their own authority. FORMING
18:28
hyper local councils that would see to their own
18:30
affairs. When the Black
18:32
Army rolled through town, they posted notice which
18:34
read. The army does
18:36
not serve any political party. The
18:39
power, any dictatorship? On
18:41
the contrary, it seeks to free the region
18:43
of all political power of all dictatorship.
18:46
It strives to protect the freedom of action,
18:49
the free life of workers against all exploitation
18:51
and domination. The mock know
18:53
army does not therefore represent any
18:55
authority. They will not subject to any
18:57
one to any obligation whatsoever. That
19:00
robot confined to defending the freedom of the
19:02
workers. The freedom of the peasant and the workers
19:04
belongs to themselves and should not
19:06
suffer any restriction. Though
19:10
Mac know was there to liberate and move
19:12
on. Not to stay and set up soon.
19:16
This particular focus on hyper local
19:18
administration mock know also started
19:21
establishing formal anarchist communism.
19:24
Not just liberating existing villages but setting
19:26
up brand new settlements on land seized from
19:28
largest state and populated with
19:30
the formerly landless poor. They
19:33
were meant to live together and communes of couple
19:36
hundred people. Working the land together,
19:38
ensuring to produce together. And
19:40
Mac know himself periodically resided in
19:42
these comments. Working the fields just
19:44
as he had done when he was kid. Except
19:46
this time. Not for any master. These
19:50
communes tend to function more like
19:52
prototypes than anything else and are only
19:54
handful of them set up. Mostly
19:57
the people I mock, no sound continue
19:59
to live in there. The village structures
20:01
and continue on with their traditional way of life. Simply
20:04
cut loose of external authority. Ultimately,
20:07
what Mark know want it was for all these communities
20:10
to knit themselves together and a larger confederation
20:12
that would spread out across Ukraine. The
20:15
into effect is confederation they wanted
20:17
to use the existing structure of the Soviets.
20:20
What they called for very specific kind
20:22
of Soviet. The free Soviets.
20:26
Over nineteen seventeen and eighteen eighteen, they had
20:28
seen how organized political parties now,
20:30
most especially the communists. Had
20:33
been getting themselves elected to the executive committee
20:35
of local Soviets and, then ignoring
20:38
then wishes of the peasants and the workers who had elected
20:40
them and instead serving the interests
20:42
of the party The role of
20:44
the Soviets had does been flipped on it's head. They
20:47
were now enforcing top down decrees
20:49
with no input from the local population.
20:51
Rather than what they had originally been. Which
20:53
is forum for the expression of local needs
20:56
from the bottom up. So,
20:58
by free Soviet, what they
21:00
meant was Soviet that explicitly board
21:02
members of political parties from Germany. This
21:05
was supposed to keep the Soviet grounded in the interests
21:08
of the local population they served rather
21:10
than having the local population serve the interests
21:12
of some political party and they're far
21:14
off central committee. This
21:16
was an idea that was gaining widespread traction
21:19
and as we talked about last week, the peasant
21:21
uprising in the vulgar were often rising
21:23
up under the banner Soviets without
21:25
communists. The
21:29
mock nose anarchism was rooted in hyper
21:31
local autonomy. That did not mean
21:33
the Ukrainian, the anarchist, did not seek wider
21:35
coalitions and confederations. In
21:38
the first half of ninety nine p.m. they held several
21:40
regional congress' The first one
21:42
in January of about one hundred delegates and
21:45
second, more consequential and controversial
21:47
congress held in February. It
21:50
was controversial because by now
21:52
the Communists had established Ukrainian
21:55
Soviet socialist republics based
21:57
in Kiev. The growth
21:59
and salud of. Location of this anarchist
22:01
autonomous zone in their midst was
22:03
threat. The second Congress
22:06
held in February also established it's own
22:08
revolutionary military Soviet the
22:10
challenge the communists claim to power. The
22:14
further issued declaration that read. The
22:16
workers and peasants of Ukraine had liberated
22:18
the territory from its enemies. Now
22:20
that the enemy is beaten, some government
22:23
appears in our midst, describing itself is Bolshevik
22:25
and aiming to impose its parties dictatorship
22:28
upon us. Is that to be countenanced?
22:31
We are non party insurgents. We
22:33
have revolted against all our oppressors. We
22:36
will not countenance new enslavement
22:38
no matter the quarter whence it may come. The
22:41
Congressmen declared it's intention to establish
22:43
regime of freely elected anti
22:46
authoritarian Soviets. Though
22:50
he was not all land in liberty inside
22:53
this anarchist free zone, though. There
22:55
were internal contradictions of their own making
22:57
that threaten the project. For
22:59
one, the regional congress's approve
23:02
the need for military conscription. Which
23:05
tends to undermine the kind of free choices
23:07
guaranteed by the anarchist. But
23:10
they insisted that this was all voluntary,
23:12
it wasn't conscription. Because the levy
23:14
had been approved by the People's Representatives
23:16
at the Regional Congress. Which
23:18
is, of course, clever rhetoric, but
23:21
doesn't matter very much to the people being pressed
23:23
into service against their well as the Black Army
23:25
joined the brands in the white and everyone
23:27
else. Hissing off every local population,
23:29
they pass through bike and scripting people
23:31
into their army at Bayonet Point. There
23:35
were also problems with the urban population.
23:38
Mark Know was temperamentally peasant and
23:40
he kind of detested cities. The
23:43
encouraged workers to take control their own factories,
23:46
but otherwise offered very little understanding
23:48
of their specific needs. He certainly
23:50
didn't care much about the value of paper money. Which
23:53
are been workers needed to buy things like
23:55
food from the villages. No
23:58
tended to insist that food should only be good. Not
24:00
for bartered good. Good to the urban
24:02
population often didn't have readily at hand.
24:06
Marco Free society had many supporters
24:08
among the peasants. That was viewed with
24:10
increasingly hostile skepticism by
24:12
the urban population. The
24:15
while there was internal dissension an internal
24:17
conflict the. main threat to mock
24:19
knows autonomous zone seem to come from outside
24:22
From the communists, those in Kiev and
24:24
nose in Moscow. In
24:26
the spring of ninety nineteen, both the Reds
24:29
and the Blacks were making it very clear to each other
24:31
that once the war against the White was over. There
24:33
would not be room in Ukraine for the both of them.
24:36
These conflicts really started breaking
24:38
out into the open when third regional
24:41
Congress of insurgents was called to convene
24:43
on April the ten. The
24:45
Communist authorities deemed this Congress
24:47
counter revolutionary. And explicitly
24:50
banned the delegates from convening. In
24:52
their eyes, it represented an attempt to create
24:54
state within state and was outside
24:56
the bounds of the authority of the Communist.
24:59
To course it was, that was the whole point. Intense
25:02
Communist authority to naturally extend
25:04
into the region yet. The delegates
25:06
to the Congress just went ahead and convened in
25:08
defiance of the me. When
25:10
they met, the incredulously defended themselves
25:13
against the crazy charge that they were bunch of counter
25:15
revolutionary. They said.
25:18
Can it be that laws laid down by handful
25:20
of individuals describing themselves
25:22
as revolutionaries can afford them
25:24
the right to declare outside of law
25:27
and entire people more revolutionary
25:29
than themselves? Is there some law,
25:32
according to which revolutionary is alleged
25:34
to have the right to enforce the harshest
25:36
punishment against the revolutionary mass?
25:39
On whose behalf he fights and
25:41
this because that same mass has secured
25:43
for itself the benefits that
25:45
the revolutionary promised them. Freedom
25:47
and equality. Hammer Mass,
25:50
remain silent when the quote unquote revolutionary
25:53
strips it have the freedom which it has just one.
25:55
There's law revolution required the shooting of
25:57
delegate on the grounds that you strike. In
26:00
to achieve and life, the task and trusted to
26:02
him by the revolutionary mass, which appointed
26:04
him. The interests should
26:06
the revolutionary different. Those are the
26:08
party. For those are the people at
26:10
the cost of whose blood the revolution has been
26:12
set in motion. The
26:14
Congress meat and dispersed without further incidents.
26:17
The gauntlet are being thrown down.
26:21
Despite all this as late as April,
26:23
nineteen both sides were still publicly
26:26
supporting each other. Hammond
26:28
f even came down and praise my nose
26:30
steadfast revolutionary principles. Though
26:33
he also sent a private telegram to Lenin,
26:35
recommending only temporary diplomacy
26:38
with Mac nose Army. No
26:41
was also told by sympathetic functionaries inside
26:43
the Soviet apparatus. It might be ambushed
26:45
and killed. This
26:48
was not great time for the Reds
26:50
and the Blacks to be sizing each other up for
26:52
final battle. Because General
26:54
thing he can to wait Army. What about
26:57
to make major push into Ukraine?
27:00
Like his counterpart, Admiral Call Track.
27:03
The unique and was now being supplied by the British.
27:06
And throughout the fighting in nineteen nineteen.
27:08
His army would receive in total. Almost
27:11
two hundred thousand rifles, sixty two
27:13
hundred machine guns. Five hundred
27:15
million rounds of ammunition, eleven
27:17
hundred artillery pieces and nearly two
27:19
million shoot. They also
27:21
delivered sixty brand new tanks
27:24
and made available, or hundred, and sixty eight
27:26
aircraft from the newly minted are
27:29
ass. They also received additional
27:31
supplies for the soldiers, including four
27:33
hundred and sixty thousand coats and
27:35
six hundred and forty five thousand pairs of boots.
27:39
The apply to the hilt and now commanding pretty
27:41
competent and discipline white army of about
27:44
fifty thousand men. Then he can
27:46
moved into Ukraine in the spring
27:48
of ninety nineteen. The
27:52
forces opposing him started to break
27:54
down in May. rocky visited
27:56
the region for the first time in reported. The
27:59
prevailing state of. The Aussie responsibility,
28:01
laxity and separatism exceeds
28:03
the most pessimistic expectations. The
28:07
Ukrainian front to the Red Army had been
28:09
built on system of alliances with local warlords,
28:12
including people like Mr Mackinlay. Just
28:15
as white started to advance, one of the
28:17
most important of these local warlords
28:20
for Guy called Nikki for Gregorio split
28:22
from the red, taking all his forces with
28:24
them. It wasn't
28:27
entirely clear what Gregorius ultimate
28:29
plan was. But he controlled
28:31
good chunk of southwest Ukraine, and
28:33
his defection was big deal. Trying
28:36
to hold the rest of the line together. Ham
28:38
enough ordered Mac know to denounce Grigori
28:41
have publicly. Mac know refused
28:43
to take hard pro communist line.
28:46
And said only that he remained unshakable,
28:48
be loyal to the worker and the peasant revolution.
28:51
And it? As an anarchist revolutionary,
28:53
I cannot by any means support seizure of power
28:56
by Gregorio or by anyone. This
28:59
rather lackluster declaration of loyalty
29:02
to the Communists, which obviously
29:04
imply that he wasn't planning on letting the communists take
29:06
over anger. Ring alarm bells
29:08
in Moscow that may be Mac know couldn't really
29:11
be depended. No,
29:13
it is worth pointing out the Mac know ultimately did
29:15
denounce Grigori of and wrote among other things.
29:18
The others. Don't you here in his
29:20
words a grim call to the Jewish program?
29:23
Don't you feel the desire of at man,
29:25
Gregorius? The break, the living for eternal
29:27
connection between the revolution of Ukraine and
29:30
revolutionary Russia. And
29:32
of course, grigori as ultimate fate which
29:34
will get you next week. There's pretty
29:37
clear final denunciation by Mac
29:39
now. Then in
29:41
the first week of June, there was huge
29:43
blow up between the rent in black. A
29:46
fourth regional congress was scheduled for June
29:48
fifteen, and this time the communists absolutely
29:50
refuse to allow it to proceed. Especially
29:53
because the invitation sent out was
29:56
addressed, the soldiers in the Red Army. All
29:58
but encouraging them to me. Mutiny
30:00
and desert. To get
30:02
the authoritarian reds and join the freedom
30:04
loving black. The
30:07
trotsky issued order number one,
30:09
eight, two, four on June fourth, absolutely
30:11
forbidding the Congress. And he said, among
30:14
other things. The WHO, like Paul
30:16
Executive Committee in concert with
30:18
Mac, knows brigade staff is attempting
30:20
to schedule a Congress of Soviets and insurgents.
30:23
Said Congress is wholly an affront to Soviet
30:26
power in the Ukraine and to the organization
30:28
of the southern front to which make knows brigade
30:30
is attached. That Congress could
30:32
not produce any result other than to deliver
30:35
the front to the Whites in the face of who Mac
30:37
knows brigade does nothing but for further and further
30:39
back thanks to the incompetent and criminal
30:42
tendencies and treachery of it commanders.
30:45
This is quite an open denunciation
30:47
of Mac now. And it was followed up by
30:49
Communist the line, Red Army forces moving
30:51
into his district. Breaking up the anarchist
30:54
communes and briefly occupying
30:56
who live bullets. This
30:58
occupation didn't last very long. Because
31:01
just few days later didn't, Eakins
31:03
forces showed up and drove off every.
31:06
That know resigned from his position in the Red
31:09
Army while reaffirming his commitment to the revolution.
31:12
At least to the revolution, as he understood
31:14
it as revolution of workers and peasants.
31:16
The actual workers and peasants. I
31:19
just those who claim to represent them. With
31:22
the Whites advancing through Ukraine. No
31:24
declared his intention to go on waging a guerrilla
31:27
war just like he had waged against the occupation
31:29
forces and nineteen eighteen. Karate
31:32
ordered Mac Know arrested for deserting his post.
31:35
Sympathetic officers and the Red Army tipped him off.
31:37
And he avoided capture by the checker. Meanwhile,
31:41
the White enjoyed unbroken success
31:44
in Ukraine against the disintegrating line
31:46
of red and black. The Red Army
31:48
retreated more than two hundred miles beyond
31:50
even car costs. The main political
31:52
and industrial center of eastern Ukraine in one
31:55
of the most important cities in the whole region. On
31:58
June fourth, Trotsky had confidently. That.
32:00
I think that Kharkov stands in no
32:02
greater danger than Moscow or any
32:04
other city of the Soviet Republic. It
32:07
fell to the Whites by the end of the month. Which
32:10
opened up the question. If it was
32:12
in no greater danger than Moscow. And
32:15
how much danger was Moscow and? Next
32:19
week we will answer that question. As
32:21
we get to the second stage of the neocons nineteen
32:24
summer offensive. The threat
32:26
of an ultimate white victory will force the Red
32:28
to the Blacks back together into an uneasy
32:30
fighting alliance has the Red Army
32:32
reformed a front line and,. mac knows
32:35
guerrilla forces found the over
32:37
extended white supply lines easy pickings
32:40
They would, once again, team up to save the revolution.
32:42
They both believed the other
32:45
was hell-bent on wrecking.
Podchaser is the ultimate destination for podcast data, search, and discovery. Learn More