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Hello my Fannist friends and welcome

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It's only two quid. It's not even that Also,

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I'm on tour of course with rahulaspus starting

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again on the 22nd of January. That's the

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square theater with Bob Mortimer And

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then we're in Brighton with Rufus Jones and Maisie

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Adam Back in London with Armando,

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you know, she on the 5th of February Mary

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Beard on the 9th of February Colchester They're all

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coming up. I would booking a guest for the

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12th of February less square theater very soon It's

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gonna be a big one. But now don't leave

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it to the last minute and

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of course the Can I have my

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ball back tour starts up? I'm

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subscribers. Some shows may have ads. Hello,

2:37

Charlie. Welcome

2:39

to the Charlie Little Theatre, please welcome man.

2:42

Who's giving out free Charlie Cakes?

2:44

It's Richard Herring. Thanks

2:51

a lot. Oh, God, you're much better than

2:53

last week's audience, are they? What

2:55

a load of pricks. Welcome. Welcome

2:59

to Richard Herring's Lancashire's

3:01

Smelliest Town podcast. Charlie

3:05

has won again. It's won the

3:07

honour again before I... I'll

3:10

do this. No, I won't. I'm going to do it now. I'm going

3:12

to read you the

3:14

entry I wrote in my blog in

3:17

2010. Maybe that's one of

3:19

the first times I came to Charlie Little Theatre. The day

3:21

after I went out to pay some money in the bank

3:23

in... into the Nat

3:25

Western Chorley, I wrote, The shopping centre

3:27

seemed to smell like a dirty crotch. But

3:31

that might have been me. I hadn't had a shower

3:33

yet because I was found around exercising later. But I

3:35

don't think my crotch was dirty enough to have created

3:37

such a cloud of stink. So

3:39

I'm pretty sure this is just how Charlie smells.

3:43

But the fact the town smells like Smegma only

3:45

makes it more remarkable they have such a lovely

3:47

and well attended theatre. So

3:50

I do wonder if maybe the Chorleons only go in

3:52

there as it's the only place in Chorley that doesn't

3:54

smell of untween privates. So

3:58

it's not just a joke that... acronym

4:00

at the start. But I was

4:02

down at the bee center the

4:07

other day, Chorley's Bee Center, there's loads of

4:09

bees, they asked themselves to be or not

4:11

to be and they decided to be, that's

4:14

what they decided there. And

4:16

there was, I tell you that place

4:18

has got quite a buzz, that's where that, and

4:23

the buzz is saying Rahalastaba. So

4:26

there you go. Good, good. Look,

4:30

I like to look at the local news when I come

4:32

to a town. Today's news, and this

4:34

might be useful for you in the audience, is that

4:37

more lane is closed as a

4:39

tree has fallen in the road. That's the

4:41

main headline, that's the main headline in Chorley.

4:45

It's nice when you go to a place where that's the,

4:49

I mean I guess to get fed up with just

4:51

going to town, send to smells of shit. So they

4:53

have the content. And

4:56

I look up some facts on

4:59

each of the places I go to. The

5:01

main fact that seems to be about Chorley is

5:03

that Chorley, born Myles Standish,

5:06

was a passenger on the Mayflower. Chorley

5:09

seems very proud about this, it's the main fact I

5:11

could see. That was a man who hated Chorley so

5:13

much he was prepared to get

5:15

on a dangerous ship to go and live somewhere

5:17

where there are people shooting him with arrows. I

5:21

won't be so pleased about it, but well

5:23

done for that. And lovely Ian

5:26

and Estelle here at the Chorley Theatre always

5:28

leave lots of nice things backstage.

5:30

And they have commissioned a

5:33

specially made Chorley cake for me,

5:35

which is a Richard Herring Chorley

5:37

cake. It's the Herring variant which

5:39

includes, you may not know this

5:41

story, but when

5:43

I go to Edinburgh I go to

5:45

Tempting Tatty and there's a Richard Herring,

5:47

my chosen one has become known as

5:50

the Richard Herring, which is a jackpotater

5:52

with mango chutney and cheddar cheese, red

5:54

cheddar cheese. So this is

5:56

a Chorley cake which I believe contains mango

5:58

chutney and cheddar cheese. Unfortunately

6:01

I'm on a very restricted diet. I

6:05

did try, I've had one of these before and

6:07

it is fucking horrible. I

6:11

still hate it all though. Anyone like to try,

6:13

do you want to try, oh this lady, what's

6:15

your name? Donna, Donna's going to try,

6:18

are you going to eat it live in front of us? Yeah.

6:21

They're giving it to him. What's your name? You

6:25

were already eating something, Grae. You

6:27

can't eat a trolley cake with a mouth full

6:29

of Haribo or whatever you've got. You've got Coca

6:32

Cola with us. This is a

6:34

school trip, what's going on? Coca

6:36

Cola and crisps. He's

6:38

going to eat the trolley, he's eating the trolley cake

6:40

now. How is this? He's having a good

6:42

bite, no problem, what do you think? Fine

6:45

isn't it? It's all right. I

6:47

mean it's against God and nature. It's

6:50

fine. Right, my

6:52

guest this week, I'm away from home.

6:55

Oh, I

6:58

can't wait, I generally can't wait to go

7:00

to sleep. And

7:03

maybe sleep in, fast half, fast six, who knows,

7:05

we'll see. My guest this

7:07

week is probably best known for portraying an armed

7:10

robber in Gobi Express. That's

7:13

why we're here. Will you please welcome the

7:15

amazing Ted Ilias, ladies and gentlemen. Ted

7:17

Ilias. Ted Ilias,

7:20

local ball. Hello.

7:24

Lovely to see you. Good to see you as

7:27

well, thank you for having me. It's my absolute

7:29

pleasure. Tell us about being an armed robber in

7:32

Gobi Express. I'm going

7:34

to try and remember what Gobi Express was

7:36

first. Oh, I do remember. It's quite recent.

7:38

I remember it was during lockdown, yeah, oh

7:40

my God, rolling my life. So

7:43

it was a guy in Bradford, he's a

7:45

puppeteer. And he's got

7:47

his puppets, grandma and granddad. And they

7:49

run a local Gobi shop, Gobi's cauliflower

7:51

in Punjabi. It's like a

7:53

local store. And they get stuck up

7:56

one day by an armed robber. And I happen

7:58

to be the armed robber who's stuck up. them

8:00

up for their money. Wow. I

8:03

can see you being good at that role. I can

8:05

see you doing that. It's quite angry. Yeah. My

8:08

best. That's good. Good. Have

8:10

you ever handled a gun in real life? Yes.

8:14

Yeah. Yeah. This summer

8:16

actually. Oh yeah. Yeah, I was just

8:18

doing a bit of work experience in Syria. And

8:24

yeah, I go every summer. It's quite good. If

8:28

you know your way around, it's quite nice.

8:30

Yeah, a lot of stories. No,

8:33

I was in New Zealand doing

8:35

SES who dares win. Oh, of

8:37

course. Spoilers. I did not win. I'm

8:41

not built for the SES as I found out. But

8:44

yeah, one of the challenges was risking

8:46

the hostage. So I got to handle a gun

8:48

for that. Wow. Okay,

8:50

good. I watched myself then. I'm going to

8:52

be careful. Look,

8:55

I've had a lot of fun today

8:57

watching your special, reading your brilliant

8:59

book. Let's talk a little bit about your book

9:01

first of all, because this is a good place

9:04

to start, because it's all about your childhood, basically,

9:06

really. So it's called The Secret Diary of a

9:08

British British-aged 13 and 3 quarters. So

9:12

a little nod to Adrian Moll for the older

9:14

people in the... We all know Adrian Moll, right?

9:17

Even the many young people in the audience tonight. I've

9:21

heard of that. What

9:24

made you want to write about your

9:26

childhood and why? It's

9:28

an interesting format to choose the diary format

9:31

as well. Yeah, I think

9:33

the reason I chose the diary format is because

9:35

I don't know how to write. And

9:39

I thought instead of writing prose, I just write

9:41

in a diary format. It seemed like a bit

9:43

of a shortcut. But the idea came

9:45

from the publishers themselves. I had an idea of

9:47

writing a book five,

9:49

six years ago called Islam for

9:51

Infidels. Just sort of a

9:53

dummies guide to Islam, but with a provocative

9:56

title. That could be quite

9:58

fun. And

10:00

then maybe write a couple of sample chapters, seemed

10:02

like quite good fun. And then when the pandemic

10:05

hit, the department I was

10:07

working with in the publishers just thought, okay,

10:09

we need people to write books now. And

10:11

they came to me with the idea of

10:13

writing a biography because I'd never thought anyone

10:15

would be interested. And

10:18

they sort of talked me into it. Yeah.

10:21

I think the diary is not,

10:23

you didn't actually write a diary. So, you

10:25

know, you had to reconstruct the diary. I

10:27

think that's harder than just writing it as

10:30

a book to say. I think you've got

10:32

to make sure the dates are right. You've

10:35

got to work out how you would have written. I

10:38

had a massive spreadsheet. I

10:40

wrote the years across the top, all the months on the bottom,

10:43

and then just tried to fill in as best I could from

10:45

memory what would have happened then. And then the stuff

10:47

that you shift around and you're like, that might have

10:49

happened then, but I've got nothing for April 98.

10:53

So I just pretend nothing happened in that month. And I

10:55

just place it there because I need something to write about

10:57

in that month. Yeah. And

11:00

what I like about it is, you know, and

11:02

I'm sure this is intentional, is that,

11:04

you know, and everyone's going

11:06

to identify with lots of

11:08

it because it's just about adolescence and it's about

11:11

the silly things we go through and the worries

11:14

and, you know, writing about big subjects and then writing about little

11:16

subjects as if they're sort of equal. But

11:19

then obviously it's also got this extra

11:21

element of, for me, at least where

11:23

your upbringing is very different to my

11:25

upbringing and what

11:27

it is to be a Muslim in the

11:29

UK and all the terrible things

11:32

you've been through as

11:34

well as a look at what

11:37

family life is like for Muslim people in

11:39

the UK. So it's a really, you know,

11:41

it draws you in. It

11:44

makes you, you know, it feels like

11:46

universal, but then equally it's an experience

11:48

that hopefully, I guess, you're writing

11:50

for both audiences, right? Both for Muslims in the

11:52

UK and people who need to learn about. Yeah,

11:56

completely. I wrote, when

11:58

I finished the book, I genuinely... I finally looked

12:00

at it and I thought, I wish I read something like this

12:02

when I was a kid. I wish like someone in my dad's

12:04

generation had written a book about what it was like growing up

12:06

in the 70s. Yeah. And

12:09

so it's a snapshot of a specific period

12:11

of time in a specific town. And

12:14

what that was like for me as a British Pakistani

12:16

lad. And there are some things that are

12:18

completely universal, like fancying Buffy

12:21

the Vampyre's layer. And then there

12:23

are things, there are slightly less universal like

12:25

rocking back and forth in mosque while you're

12:27

reading the Quran. I'd never

12:30

realised that I did until someone pointed out to me and

12:32

I was like, oh shit, yeah, I did that. Why

12:36

am I doing this? Well, it's

12:38

clear, even like straight away, it's quite, it's

12:40

quite instant packed because you get run over

12:42

like in the first few pages. Yeah. There's

12:45

sort of fights and various, you know, there's a

12:47

great sort of story about you all trying

12:51

to go and I don't know what you're going to do

12:53

to the sheep, but you're going to go and try to

12:55

get to some sheep in a farm and the farmer sort

12:58

of shooting at you. Yeah, so our

13:00

high school was basically next to, there

13:03

were two high schools and between them was

13:05

some woods and some farm land and stuff.

13:07

Yeah. And

13:09

so we always, lunchtime was like an hour and 10 minutes. And

13:11

so we always set ourselves a challenge of what is the furthest

13:14

we can go into, woods were out of bounds as well. So

13:16

it was a bit of park high school for anyone who knows

13:18

it. And so woods were out of bounds

13:20

anyway. So we just, we just go and play in the woods. In

13:23

my head, we were famous fives, but I never said

13:25

that out loud because the boys probably would have punched

13:28

me if I told them that I read. I

13:35

got into, sorry, I got into Harry

13:38

Potter because my sister, my

13:40

older sister borrowed it from my, from my

13:42

younger cousin and she read it and

13:44

she loved it. And I was like, I don't think I'm going to read

13:46

a book about a wizard. And then she

13:48

said, well, actually our cousin Shiraz,

13:51

she goes, Shiraz has read it as well. Now

13:53

at that point in my life, Shiraz just a

13:55

month ago, I'd gone into another school and hit

13:57

someone in the head with a hammer. And

14:00

I thought, well if Shiraz was ready, then it

14:03

must be quite cool then. And

14:06

that's why I read Harry Potter 1, because

14:09

my cousin's soul had read it.

14:14

But no, so these woods were sort of in

14:16

between these two schools, and

14:18

we just had the idea of, could

14:20

we reach the other school and

14:22

be back in time? The

14:25

answer is no, but there was one time when

14:27

we saw some shape, and we weren't doing anything

14:29

ungodly to the shape, but we were chasing them around

14:31

because we were young lads, and

14:34

then there was a farmer who had a shotgun who just hit

14:36

one blast into the air, and

14:41

we just, our ears were ringing,

14:44

and we just fled in all different directions, and some of us

14:46

got caught, and some of us never. Yeah,

14:48

so that's all very exciting. And

14:51

then there's the stuff that, you know,

14:54

it's interesting, because even though

14:56

I'm interested in

14:58

religious, and I'm interested in this subject, I

15:00

realize how little I know about Islam really,

15:02

and about what goes on, so all that

15:05

stuff's very interesting, and what the family life

15:07

is, and

15:10

what the, you know, the, like you

15:12

say, the mosque things. I think the

15:15

thing that really caught my attention, both

15:17

in this, in the book, and if

15:19

you're ready, unfortunately, was the shaving aspect

15:21

of Islam, which I

15:23

was not aware of, the things that you have to shave. Yeah,

15:26

so for those of you that don't know, in

15:29

Islam, men and women have

15:31

to remove our

15:33

pubic hair and armpit hair,

15:35

so that's a thing that we do.

15:38

So yeah, is that where this started for men,

15:40

because guys never used to win their head? And

15:42

in the 70s, everyone had bushes, and women had

15:44

bushes, so I can't remember the last time I

15:46

saw a proper, proper tach.

15:49

I don't think many Muslim bushes were

15:51

captured in the 70s, honestly. No,

15:53

I'm not, I'm talking, I'm talking

15:56

generally. But then now guys

15:58

have started doing it as well, so you know. We

16:01

started that, yeah, the trend that we

16:03

thought came from pornography came from us.

16:05

So yeah, we did that. But

16:08

it's weird for me because

16:10

I'm a very hairy man.

16:12

I've got one tattoo and

16:14

it's of Chewbacca just from

16:16

head to toe. And

16:18

so shaving certain areas does then make it

16:21

look quite odd I think. Like

16:23

an elephant creeping out of the bush. So

16:26

yeah, it's a bit odd when I shave some areas and

16:28

I'm like, I'm just so hairy everywhere else. And

16:31

the first time you had to do that, you sort

16:34

of write about doing it in the bath and clog

16:36

up the bath. Well,

16:38

I was too embarrassed to ask anyone.

16:41

Didn't have a good relationship with my stepdad. Didn't

16:44

then also have a good relationship with my own dad. Or I

16:46

was just not close enough to be like, how do I shave

16:49

my dick? And

16:52

so you just kind of go, well, let's just do

16:54

it. So I just started doing it.

16:57

Yeah, but you know, it's that such a

16:59

human story and a human moment, but also

17:01

like what kind of mind-boggling as well. So

17:05

those things I think are just terrific. But

17:07

then also obviously on the other

17:09

side is the racism that you faced as well, which I

17:11

think you know, you

17:13

cover really well because

17:15

it's not, you know, it's not, it's a part of

17:17

this book. It's not, you know, it

17:20

would be easy, I'm sure, to write a book

17:22

that was about the race. Yeah, yeah,

17:24

yeah. And it wouldn't be as, I mean,

17:26

it's not a light touch because that's not the right way of

17:29

saying it. But you know, you know, I mean, it's not, it's

17:31

not pervading the whole thing. Yeah, it doesn't dominate our lives. It's

17:33

sort of look back at retrospectively and go, oh

17:35

my God, that was a lot of awful shit going on.

17:38

Yeah. But at the time when you're

17:40

living through it, you don't, you never think that. And

17:42

I mean, unless you're in like a literal war zone or

17:44

something, you never think your life is

17:46

that bad because you become conditioned to your own experiences.

17:49

And so whatever is happening in your life, because

17:52

it's happening to people around you and to everyone

17:54

in your community, it's kind of just normal. Yeah,

17:56

sure. And these were everyday stories.

17:58

These were things that you do. and everyday

18:00

people coming and going, oh, this happened and this happened.

18:03

It happened now and again. Yeah.

18:05

And I suppose all the world, I mean, it's interesting,

18:08

the world events that happen, and a lot of big

18:11

world events happened in those years.

18:13

I mean, the Princess Diana dying

18:15

and there's a sort of, well,

18:19

you're a student, you're a clever guy

18:21

at school, but you've got a big

18:23

mouth, I think, of effect. Yeah, yeah.

18:26

So when Giordano dies, you sort of make an

18:28

inappropriate joke about Giordano that you get into a

18:30

lot of trouble for. And

18:32

then obviously 9-11, it's sort of towards the end

18:35

of the book. It's the headliner. Yeah.

18:37

Yeah. But that obviously had

18:40

a huge impact, obviously.

18:42

Yeah. I mean, I

18:44

nearly did the same joke as you did about Giordano. But

18:47

yeah, on your

18:50

lives. Yeah. Yeah,

18:53

it was interesting because I,

18:55

straight after 9-11, I

18:58

went to university. It was literally, I think,

19:00

two or three weeks later, I was 18

19:02

and a half to keep the theme

19:04

of the book. And yeah, I went to uni and it was

19:07

just so weird because

19:09

everyone, because I had come from this very insular

19:12

Pakistani Muslim community, and

19:14

all the school was quite mixed. Everything else really wasn't.

19:17

And I suddenly thrust into Lancaster up the

19:19

road and very, very middle class,

19:22

very white. Everyone

19:24

who wasn't white was a foreign

19:26

student. Suddenly, I'm

19:28

best friends with people from all over the country, from

19:30

all walks of life, from different classes and stuff, stuff

19:32

that I never really thought about. And

19:34

just some of those lads had such dark

19:37

senses of humor. But to

19:40

think really helped me, helped shape into

19:42

sort of what

19:44

I eventually became. Yeah. Because they

19:46

were cracking all sorts of 9-11 jokes and stuff

19:48

that then kind of bizarrely just

19:50

made me more comfortable. I was like, oh, this

19:52

is the slabs. Yeah. The sort of stuff

19:54

that we laugh about at home. It was

19:57

just, yeah. Yeah. And humor, it's interesting how

19:59

humor... I mean it can be

20:01

used to push poor people apart and it can

20:03

be used to bring people together Yeah, and almost

20:05

the same sometimes the same joke. It's just it's

20:07

just the way it's told or Or

20:10

that how much you trust the person, you know, how

20:12

you like the person completely happens all the time A

20:14

joke in a room is received in a certain way

20:16

Yeah And then you pour it on YouTube and then

20:18

suddenly the whole world can see and it's received differently

20:20

and you're like Oh hang on but in the room

20:22

people were fine. Yeah, just it's not

20:25

in the room anymore Yeah, people people then tend

20:27

to not not enjoy as much

20:29

sometimes Sure, and I quite like the fact that

20:31

you went to you studied biochemistry at

20:34

university Just as sort of anthrax

20:36

was Jokes

20:41

to make about that It

20:44

was a fun period for for dark jokes, yeah

20:49

Yeah, apparently there could be another 9-11 yeah,

20:51

I knew something would happen Yeah And

20:56

it feels like something that you know could

20:58

easily be I mean the book it could

21:00

feel like something that could easily be a

21:02

Television series or a film is there been any interest

21:04

in sort of? Has a

21:06

little bit we are working with A

21:09

production company to try and turn it into maybe

21:11

a TV show stuff. It's just so hard I

21:13

mean, you know, it's so hard to get stuff

21:15

made it is To them

21:17

I actually got great ideas and I mean the stuff you see on

21:19

TV that we like How did that get made? I

21:22

think some now that I'm in it trying to get

21:24

stuff made just think about how much? Not

21:27

speaking for myself and speaking on behalf of our fraternity

21:29

how much good stuff doesn't get made yeah, because just

21:31

for whatever reason it's not a budget for it or

21:33

there's not a vision for a or some

21:36

like You haven't used one where

21:39

you you take a project so far along and

21:41

then the commissioner who loved your idea changes And

21:44

then they've got their own idea of what should be

21:46

on their channel and then your stuff gets pulled back.

21:48

So Hopefully yeah, I mean

21:50

it's endlessly happened to me. Yes That's

21:53

if you take too long to write your scripts.

21:55

Yeah, then then there's someone else and go well,

21:57

I'm not doing this This is someone else's commission

22:00

So yeah, I mean, you know, great things do get

22:02

through, obviously, but it's, but you know, there's a lot

22:05

of competition. I think there's so many people trying to

22:07

do things now, but equally, there's just, there's that bit

22:09

of luck. You need the right person to see it,

22:11

the person who gets it, the person

22:13

who gives you the chance, you know. So yeah, there's so

22:15

much, there's so much luck in it. But it does feel

22:17

like, you know, it could be,

22:19

well, it feels necessary as well, because I

22:21

just think, you know, if I don't know

22:24

about Islam, then most people

22:27

don't, you know, most white people

22:29

in the UK don't know enough

22:31

about it, or have preconceptions about

22:33

it. And

22:36

you're clearly a religious person still,

22:38

you know, which a lot of

22:40

comedians, myself and Glue, will be

22:42

brought up religious and then turn against

22:45

it. But that

22:47

you haven't, the comedy hasn't... Muslims don't

22:49

do that. But no,

22:51

that's not true. Yeah,

22:55

I have friends who aren't practicing. But yeah,

22:57

I just, I was brought up in a

22:59

very, not very, actually,

23:02

let me take that back. I wasn't brought up in a

23:04

very religious household, but I was brought up in a believing

23:06

household. And

23:08

I think weirdly, the more

23:11

sort of Islamophobia and racism there's been kind

23:13

of post-9-11, the closer

23:16

it's brought people through their religion. So

23:18

I kind of almost think that sort of, in the

23:20

same way that if you tell people they're stupid for

23:23

thinking Brexit is a good idea, it's not going to

23:25

change their minds. In the same way,

23:27

if you tell a religious person they're stupid for being

23:29

religious, if anything is going to make me double down,

23:31

I'm like, all right, well, I'll be stupid then. But

23:33

you are, yeah, you are missing the, you are stupid.

23:35

Yeah, I'm also, yeah. You're

23:37

a stupidest of many police in Brexit. As

23:41

long as we have that established. I'm

23:45

into that dignified silence. But

23:49

no, it's, you know, but I

23:51

also think it's impressive to

23:53

believe something, in anything really, it's impressive to

23:56

stay true to that. And you know, I

23:58

think, again, it's that. All

24:00

of your stuff is about,

24:02

you know, I think you're

24:04

quite a brave comedian, you're doing

24:06

risque material and you're taking chances,

24:09

but it's all about family and it's

24:11

about sticking together and it's

24:13

about, you know, it's about changing

24:16

people's minds as well

24:18

about what they're getting, but again, it

24:21

doesn't feel like, you know, in your

24:23

special, which again is available online for

24:26

free, people can watch that for free, so do

24:28

go and watch it, the Tez Talks, is that

24:31

one, that's the one? Yeah, Tez Talks, yeah. Which

24:33

is great, I've watched that today and

24:36

you know, that's, you

24:38

play around with these ideas and with the racism

24:41

and with, you know, even the seriousness of the

24:43

subject, there's a great bit where you sort of

24:45

do a really serious, what feels like the end

24:47

of the show, it's very serious and then you

24:49

take the piss out of that as well. So

24:52

you know, you've got this playful spirit with it,

24:54

so you're still very much a, you know, a

24:56

challenging comedian and so it's, you know, it's

24:59

quite good to be getting that from

25:02

a position of faith, I think. Yeah, I

25:04

always, in my stand up, I've always wanted

25:06

to be universal. I've

25:08

never wanted to alienate anyone, I've never wanted anyone to

25:10

think that this wouldn't be a show for them. So

25:13

I've always wanted to be the sort of comic that anyone

25:15

from any background could come and watch and it just so

25:17

happens that the things that I like talking

25:19

and joking about are things that

25:21

I care about and are related to

25:24

my lived experiences, but I think

25:26

that's the case for most comedians. I

25:29

would love to do what Mark and Ty does. I

25:32

would love to be able to like, you know, have an experience

25:34

on an escalator and

25:37

just turn that into 10 minutes of

25:39

just material. Like my mind doesn't think

25:41

that way and I'm sure

25:43

his mind doesn't think the way that

25:45

mind is, but you know, I think he's doing better than

25:47

I am, but I think it was, I

25:50

would love to be like that observational guy who has

25:52

his experiences and I can turn that into a 15

25:54

minute thing, but it's not how a man works. My

25:56

mind works the way it does and I try and

25:58

bring that to audiences. audiences

26:00

that watch it do enjoy it. But

26:05

again, as a lot of comedians do, you're

26:07

putting those specials up for free, so

26:10

people can go and find them. It's

26:15

a really great thing to do, I think, in

26:17

terms of just bringing an audience to it. It's

26:19

getting harder to monetize anyway, so you might as

26:21

well give it out for free. And

26:25

then promote the next tour. In the show, again,

26:27

near the top of that show, you

26:32

talk about a leaflet you've

26:34

got, or the Punisher

26:36

Muslim Day thing, which

26:38

again feels like so extreme that

26:40

you ring the humor out of it as well, but

26:46

it's kind of terrifying as well,

26:48

this idea. I remember when

26:50

I started, Punisher Muslim Day was this leafleting

26:54

campaign started by this, I think they

26:56

eventually caught him and lived in Lincolnshire,

26:58

I think, of course. And

27:02

he just sent this letter detailing

27:04

how we'd want to punish Muslims,

27:07

and it's quite graphic, to

27:09

MPs, other famous Muslims,

27:11

media figures and stuff, and then to

27:14

just random households around the country. And

27:17

then people were scared, but I immediately

27:20

found it funny. I

27:22

just read it and I thought, this is so funny. And I

27:24

took it on stage that night, and the bit that

27:26

you see in the show, I think 8%

27:28

of it was improvised that night, just

27:30

going on stage and just talking through it line

27:32

by line. And then I thought, this

27:34

could be a bit, actually. Yeah, because it's

27:37

sort of about awarding points for the more extreme

27:39

things, but there's no logic to have the point

27:41

system, which

27:45

I think is the funny thing to

27:47

make out when you're talking about burning

27:49

down mosques and things like that, which

27:51

is obviously like a horrific idea. I

27:53

think one of them was something like,

27:57

it was, oh, throw acid in the face of a

27:59

Muslim. And then there's only 50 points. And

28:01

my point was that's just not enough points for

28:05

what is potentially a 50-year jail sentence. You'd

28:07

want more points for that risk, wouldn't you?

28:09

So I just thought it doesn't really

28:11

sound like a scrutiny. And then nuclear bomb, the Middle

28:13

East, or the Middle East. Duke Mecha

28:15

was the last one. And I thought, well

28:18

surely at that point you just won? Because

28:21

that one was 2,500 points. And I thought,

28:23

no, surely just like if I've accumulated loads

28:25

of other points, do everything else, but

28:27

someone's nuked Mecha, you can't give me the victory.

28:31

Well, he threw a lot of acid.

28:33

So big enough to give him

28:35

the victory. It's just a

28:37

whole thing. No problem. It's

28:40

just the idea of anyone managing that.

28:42

Everyone else will be like, oh, I

28:44

only pushed someone over. I feel

28:46

like Victor Krum at the end of the poll,

28:48

when he catches the Golden Snitch, but he doesn't

28:50

win the game. Surely

28:55

that wouldn't mean you win. That's fine.

28:59

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30:23

You must have been trouble for

30:26

the teachers. There's the

30:28

story where you say

30:30

your friend had broken his neck. Do you

30:32

remember this bit? Yeah, so my best

30:35

friend who I sat with every single day of high school,

30:37

he just didn't turn up to school one day and this

30:39

was pre-mobile phones so I had no idea why he hadn't

30:41

turned up to school. And then

30:43

during your school your teacher always asks you why your

30:45

friend's not in. Do you remember? She'd

30:47

be like, why is Tom not in? You're like,

30:49

I don't know. But on this particular occasion I

30:52

just went, oh, missus has broken his neck. And

30:54

as soon as I said it, I thought I've just chosen the

30:57

wrong thing here. Because

30:59

her face dropped and I was

31:01

like, gosh. And

31:03

I just had to be like, yeah. And she went, that's really serious.

31:05

And I went, yeah. It was

31:07

really bad. Yeah. Oh. And

31:10

then he came in the next day

31:12

and I was like, you don't have

31:14

to pretend you've broken your neck. But

31:16

then at every class, because you're a tutor

31:19

group, then obviously you're in a lot of classes with

31:21

them. Every time the teacher's

31:23

like, when you go to your next class biology or whatever,

31:25

and the teacher's like, oh, that's Hassim. And

31:27

then Fiona's like, oh, Tess knows. And I'm like,

31:29

oh, yeah, he's broken his neck. And

31:33

she's like, he might be paralyzed. And

31:35

I'm like, yeah, he might.

31:38

He might. I hope he's not. It's

31:42

just the loveless short-termism of it. I'm just

31:44

like, not even thinking how am I going

31:46

to get out. I

31:48

just love it. But again,

31:50

it exemplifies humanity as what one was like

31:52

as a kid. I

31:55

was a lab man's kid at school. So

31:58

I completely get it. So

32:00

you were sort of, in the

32:03

book you were sort of talking about wanting to be a

32:05

doctor, you kind of ended up working in the civil service.

32:08

So how did you, you know,

32:10

get segue away from that

32:12

into doing the comedy? What

32:14

was the... I think the

32:16

doctor thing was always an ambition I had as a

32:18

kid and I don't know if that was whether that

32:21

had come from me organically or whether my mum accepted

32:23

it in my mind when I was asleep one day.

32:27

But yeah, I'd always wanted to be a doctor, it was

32:29

a thing and then I think I was always told

32:32

you need six A's at GCSE, six A's, that's what

32:34

you need. Managed to get those

32:36

in this very rough school that I went

32:38

to and then just got

32:40

thrown out of home between sort of

32:42

school and college and then just

32:44

kind of, I didn't really go off the rails, I just kind

32:46

of took my eye off the ball and I just started costing

32:49

at college and I didn't have... My mum was a real dragon

32:51

mum, sort of made sure I did my homework and was on

32:53

top of me all the time and stuff and then I didn't

32:55

have that anymore. So I kind of

32:57

just let it relax and just thought I could

32:59

get by on how clever I thought I was, which

33:02

was not enough. And so

33:04

I just really, really flunked my ear levels which ended up

33:07

putting me through clearing, so then I

33:09

did biochemistry at Lancaster. And

33:11

then by the time I'd finished the degree, I'd really just

33:13

fallen out of love with science and just didn't fancy working in

33:16

a hospital or a lab or something. So it's

33:18

kind of what service? Well I just

33:20

started looking at graduate jobs

33:23

and what graduate jobs could I

33:25

get with the tutu and sort

33:28

of limit your choices a little bit. So

33:31

the FAST stream, which is a civil service

33:33

graduate program, does accept

33:35

a tutu and it's one of the most prestigious programs

33:37

in the country and so I applied for it and

33:40

I somehow managed to get on

33:42

and like all of my friends tried as well and none

33:44

of them could pass the tests and so... Is

33:46

there anyone here who's tried the FAST stream? I've

33:49

had it. Did you get in? No.

33:51

I had dickhead. So

33:58

it's quite hard to get in. Only

34:01

the brightest and the best get in. This

34:03

lady's basically passed the test. She

34:06

didn't play into my narrative. No, it

34:08

doesn't. It's very

34:10

keen for everyone to know. I was lucky. I

34:12

got lucky and I got into the civil service.

34:15

But then you didn't, you know, but then you left the

34:17

civil service to become a comedian. I mean, what was... I

34:21

mean, you were obviously funny as a kid

34:23

and you were obviously smart, you know, smart

34:25

and maybe smart-asses again. So,

34:30

you know, it doesn't feel like that that would have

34:32

been a natural... As it didn't

34:34

for me. It didn't feel like that's the career

34:36

progression that you might be going on. No, but

34:38

like I had no other ambitions really. I

34:42

mean, I never thought... When

34:44

I come from in Blackburn, I've said this once I started working

34:46

in this career, that I know more people in

34:49

prison than who've gone to work in the

34:51

arts in Blackburn. So there was no sort

34:53

of role models or even scope. Even at

34:56

school, there was no one who even entertained the

34:58

career. Even like, you know, another kid in the class who

35:00

was like, oh, what a fancy working in. There

35:02

was no one, literally no one in the whole school did anything

35:04

in terms

35:06

of being in the arts or anything. It just

35:08

wasn't on my radar whatsoever. So just being in

35:11

the civil service and climbing that ladder was as

35:13

much about... As much ambition

35:15

as I had. And, you know, there's fantastic

35:17

careers in the civil service and I was

35:19

working on some quite cool stuff. Like I

35:22

worked on the Olympics for three years. And

35:24

that was cool. Like my discus didn't meddle.

35:27

But no, I worked in security for keeping

35:29

the Olympics safe and secure. So do you

35:32

remember the 2012 Olympics? Do

35:34

you remember how there was no terrorist attacks?

35:37

You're welcome. And

35:41

so I did that and a lot of cool experiences

35:43

came from that. And then, but I think it was

35:45

two years in. So I'd gone down to London, came

35:47

back up for a couple of years to work in

35:49

Liverpool, and then went back

35:51

to London again. And just that second time round, I

35:53

was just like, I just need to make some

35:56

friends. So

35:58

I started looking online for stuff that I could do.

36:00

Googling writing workshops. And that's when

36:02

I came across a stand-up workshop. And

36:04

I thought, huh, never

36:06

thought about it. Well, that's what I had

36:08

thought about it, watching Eddie Murphy and thinking of, could

36:11

I do that? But

36:13

just something that I just happened to be the right

36:15

place, right time, found this thing, had

36:17

enough money in my bank account, and I

36:19

just thought, I'm just gonna go for it. And that was January

36:22

2010. So I did the

36:24

workshop in April, and then

36:26

that summer, June 2010, was my first ever gig. And

36:30

so I balanced both for about six and a half

36:32

years, because as you know, the open bank circuit does

36:34

not pay. It does not pay

36:36

very much. Not pay. And

36:39

so six and a half years, that was my

36:41

apprenticeship. Yeah. So my

36:43

first two Edinburghs, I had my full-time job.

36:45

Right. So you just managed to

36:47

work the time off? Yeah, I had very nice,

36:49

very, very lovely understanding land managers who gave me

36:51

the summer off. Right. That's good. Yeah,

36:54

but it feels like it's

36:56

been a rapid success, but I suppose it

36:58

is still, that's still 13 years of work.

37:01

So it's a long work, but the special

37:03

that's online, it

37:06

feels like a very

37:09

accomplished piece of work. It's a very,

37:11

it feels like someone who's been doing

37:13

it for longer than that, I would

37:15

say, really, to be honest. But at

37:17

what point did you sort of think,

37:19

yeah, this is, what was the thing

37:21

that made you think I can quit the day job? It

37:24

was just money, really. Yeah. I

37:27

don't come from money, I never asked anyone for

37:29

financial help at home, because they wouldn't be in

37:31

a position to offer it. And

37:33

so it was that point where I

37:35

could make enough money if I left

37:37

my job and quit London. Yeah.

37:41

So quitting London was the key as well. Right. Even

37:43

though now I'm super glad that I did,

37:47

but at the time I just, I didn't want to leave

37:49

London. No. But it was the

37:51

only way that I could have made the job,

37:53

sort of leaving job work. Okay, so that's interesting.

37:55

So the return to, you live in Blackburn now.

37:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've gone back to Blackburn.

37:59

Yeah. more a financial thing than... Yeah, yeah. And plus

38:01

my mum was on her own as well, so I thought,

38:04

go on, look after mum. Not that she needs looking

38:06

after, but you know. Yeah. Just

38:08

be around. Is it, is it, you know,

38:10

again, a lot of people would have gone the

38:12

other way, right? They would have think I'm gonna

38:15

be a famous comedian. I

38:17

can now leave Blackburn and live somewhere

38:19

nice. Um... Um...

38:22

Um... Um... Um...

38:25

Um... Um... Like,

38:27

surely. Like, surely. Um... So,

38:30

yeah, that's, that's, you know, I think it says a

38:32

lot about someone again. I think, you know, as much

38:34

as you're saying that it made sense

38:36

to leave London, and you didn't want to leave London, a

38:39

lot of people wouldn't make that journey in

38:41

the opposite direction and wouldn't go back to

38:44

their childhood home and or childhood hometown and

38:46

live there. So... Yeah,

38:48

I just, at that point, I had

38:50

nothing to prove in London

38:52

in terms of stand-up. So there

38:54

was nowhere I needed to go and do open mic

38:56

spots at or open spots at. Every club I needed

38:58

to be in with, I was in with. Yeah. Or

39:01

weren't gonna book me. So, so there was no,

39:03

there was stand-up wire. There was no reason to be in London

39:05

other than when I was booked for shows. Then

39:08

it came about like meetings and TV and

39:11

all that sort of stuff. And

39:13

luckily we had that great

39:16

pandemic in

39:19

which people learned that you

39:21

don't need to be in the same room to have

39:23

a meeting. Yeah. Um, so that was, that was the

39:26

one good, that was one of the silver linings of

39:28

the pandemic was Zoom, I think. Yeah. So

39:30

that helps a lot. Because yeah,

39:32

people just drag you down for like these 20 minute

39:34

meetings for so many things they don't

39:36

do anymore, thank God. Yeah, with Limmy, when one of the

39:39

things, the first time Limmy was on, he's

39:41

from Glasgow, he was brought down from

39:43

Glasgow to London to be told they weren't gonna make

39:45

his show. And

39:49

they had to go home again. Which is

39:51

very typical of a TV stick, isn't it?

39:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But absolutely unbelievable. You just

39:55

think I'll write him a letter. I'll ring

39:58

him up and tell him. Yeah, yeah. I

40:00

don't need to come there. But

40:03

you've done loads of TV stuff. I'm kind

40:05

of interested in the Tesla clock show. The

40:07

bits I've seen of that are really great.

40:10

Was it quite a short-lived...

40:13

Yeah, and it was becoming a pandemic casualty.

40:16

Yeah, so it was always been an

40:18

ambition of mine to have

40:20

a TV show with your name in the title. And

40:22

I was a big fan of Jon Stewart and

40:24

all the sorts of things that you get in America. And

40:27

finally given the opportunity. And Channel 4

40:30

were great. They let me just get on with it. And it

40:32

was kind of what ended up on TV was

40:34

kind of like 80, 90% of what

40:36

I wanted the show to be, which is more

40:38

than you can possibly dream of in terms

40:40

of creative control. And I got to

40:42

have mates on the show like Adam Raw and

40:45

Sindhu V and Sophie Villain who've

40:49

all left me behind. But

40:51

it was such a

40:53

fun thing to do. But they basically gave us

40:55

an extended pilot run. So it was one show

40:57

for a pilot to give us three. So

41:00

it's almost like a mini season. And

41:03

we put them out and people who watched it,

41:06

enjoyed it, was

41:08

very critically well received. And

41:11

then you end up in the meetings of like, where did

41:13

they go next? What needs improving? And

41:15

in the umming and awing, the pandemic hit.

41:17

And then... There's no point asking the

41:19

question in the pandemic. And then after the pandemic, it just seemed

41:21

like that ship had sailed. And it's kind of... Yeah, it's a

41:23

shame. And Channel 4 have no money anymore. That's

41:26

also true. It's a real shame because I think it

41:28

did feel like... I

41:31

was actually surprised when I went to look

41:34

for it. I'd seen bits of it and I thought, oh,

41:37

this is good. And it seems to get good, big

41:39

game reviews. And I couldn't believe that there was so

41:41

little of it. So that's an

41:43

amazing... Again, that's an amazing sign to be

41:45

on something because usually something's three episodes. People

41:47

look at it like it's three episodes, you

41:49

know, and we don't remember it. So it's

41:51

yeah, it's... Well, yeah, there might be. It

41:53

feels like... It'd be nice. But I've

41:55

kind of... One thing the pandemic taught me, and

41:57

this is again coming back to... of

42:00

being religious, there is a thing

42:02

in Islam which is like, if something

42:04

is meant to be, it will happen. I'm paraphrasing.

42:06

If something is meant to be, it will happen and if it's

42:08

not, it's just not meant for you. And

42:11

I've just thrown myself into that.

42:14

If these things are meant for me, they will happen for me,

42:16

there's nothing that can stop it. And if it's

42:18

not meant for me, I'll try and if it doesn't happen,

42:21

fine. And it's just made getting

42:24

rejection a lot easier to process. Yeah, I

42:26

mean, a lot of comedians need that. So

42:28

if you could convert a few of us

42:30

to that way of thinking, that would

42:33

be great. I don't need a competition. I

42:37

mean, yeah, you know, the important point of that

42:39

is to try. It's because it would

42:42

be easy to sit back and go, well, whatever

42:44

happens, will happen. You've got to try. But I

42:46

think that, you know, regardless of

42:49

faith, that's just a sensible way

42:51

of looking at it. Yeah. And

42:53

like, look, look, look, look, there's

42:55

such a tremendous part in these

42:57

things. And so, yeah, kind of

43:00

made my peace with it. But if it does happen again,

43:02

or something similar, yeah, of course, I'd love that. Cool.

43:04

Yeah, well, I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will.

43:06

It was really good. Let me ask you some emergency

43:09

questions before I forget to do that, because I'm going

43:11

to see

43:13

what we've got. I'm going to I'm going to go

43:15

back to early on, the emergency

43:17

questions canon. It's a

43:19

thousand one emergency questions. Well,

43:23

this is the first one that's come up. So I'm going to

43:25

ask you this. Would you rather

43:27

date a man who is a six foot tall penis,

43:30

or a man who instead of having a penis

43:32

has a tiny man down there? So you

43:34

have to date one of these two fellows. One

43:36

of them, one of them is a six foot

43:39

tall penis, but he doesn't have anything else doesn't

43:41

even have balls. Just a penis. Just a penis.

43:43

He shuffles along like a slug. He's

43:48

got a face on his

43:50

helmet. Right. Is he

43:52

circumcised? Would that be a deal

43:54

breaker for you? It would potentially.

44:00

to do it to him because it's sort of

44:02

like his, his growth. Like a haircut. If

44:05

it's like a haircut, it's okay. But if it's like

44:07

his, you know, part of his next

44:09

bit cut off, it seems a bit worse. Or

44:13

a man is instead of having a penis has

44:15

a tiny man, another tiny man. And so it's

44:17

like two men in a way. I'll go for

44:19

the second option. I'll go for the man squared.

44:22

I'll go for the man plus, the

44:24

man plus little man. Yeah. That

44:26

could be quite fun. If he's pissed me

44:28

off, I'll be like, fucking tell him. Stop

44:32

dicking about. Sorry, North End. Good.

44:38

Have you ever seen a ghost? Ooh,

44:43

he has. He's looking at one now.

44:49

I think so. Yeah. So

44:53

when my mum got

44:55

remarried in Pakistan, I

44:57

would have been four

45:00

years old, four, five years old.

45:04

And she got married to a man who lived on the

45:06

side of the village. I was living in

45:08

my grandma's house and I didn't really understand what was

45:10

going on. I don't think I even realized my mum

45:12

got remarried. I think I just didn't. She was just

45:14

in the house anymore. Right. So just very confused. I

45:16

didn't know she was living on the side of the

45:18

village and the village wasn't big, like probably

45:21

the size of a shopping center.

45:24

And I sneaked out of the house

45:26

dead at night. This is in the 80s in Pakistan.

45:28

So there was no electricity in the village. So pitch

45:31

black was pitch black. And

45:33

snuck out the house, kind of knew my way around

45:35

the village, sort of a bit of

45:37

light from the stars and stuff, but very, very, very, very

45:39

dark. And I

45:41

remember turning into one

45:43

alley and as I turned in, a figure

45:48

stepped out from the other side of the alley. And

45:50

I don't mean it like he didn't turn any steps out. So

45:54

I just froze and

45:56

kind of just looked at this figure and it looked

45:59

human. It was figure just

46:01

looked at him and

46:03

he didn't say anything and just turned back

46:05

and just run. I just ran home and

46:08

now I'm old I'm like how do you even know how

46:10

late it was? It could have been past midnight could have

46:13

been 8 p.m. I have no

46:15

idea so it could have just

46:17

been someone on the normal sort of just just walking

46:19

around the village or going or then or doing the

46:21

reverse journey that I was doing or I

46:26

saw a ghost I'm not sure. Yeah okay. I

46:31

was terrified there was no one else awake

46:34

and but I think the thing that I

46:36

remember is that this stepped out it didn't

46:38

scared that guy. Yeah it scared the life

46:40

out of that guy. It didn't like it

46:42

didn't turn into the it didn't turn into

46:44

the alley it stepped out as I turned

46:46

in. Yeah. It stepped out and that always

46:48

that always stays with me and I'm like

46:50

that doesn't make any sense like how why

46:52

did he step out and not turn in?

46:55

That's always makes me think that maybe it was a

46:57

ghost. Maybe it was a ghost yeah. Or just a

46:59

drunk man. It was

47:02

a ghost Richard. So

47:06

look you're doing a new show have you started

47:08

doing if you start work on new shows this

47:10

Populous? And also Populous was

47:12

my last show which became Testify I think.

47:18

Okay well so what's the new

47:20

tour? So the new tour is called After

47:22

8. Okay. So it's because

47:24

I played a character called 8 in

47:26

Man Like More Being which

47:30

is not in anymore spoilers and

47:34

so the show is called After 8 to reference that

47:36

it's after that. And yes so

47:39

that will be on sale in two weeks time including

47:48

in this room so please do buy

47:50

tickets and yeah it'll be

47:52

all over the country if you're listening at

47:55

home which most of you are. So

47:58

yeah hopefully more I hope. I'll

48:01

be able to complete

48:03

10 iliath.com for tickets

48:05

and yeah those tickets go on

48:08

sale on the 1st of December I think. Right and

48:10

what do you think the tour is like later in

48:12

2020? Yeah so September 2024 to December 2024 yeah autumn

48:14

2024. So

48:17

how far is the show now? Do

48:19

you know what the show is? Are you working

48:21

on it? I think

48:24

I've got about 20 minutes. Okay. Of

48:26

serviceable material. Let's do it really slow. But

48:28

yeah yeah. That's what Chewie Lee does. Tell

48:31

each bit. Tell

48:35

each bit three times. But

48:38

yeah I think I know what the show is about

48:40

Ish. But yeah doesn't that really have a grand theme?

48:42

I think I've kind of moved away from writing the

48:45

shows where it kind of had a grand structure

48:48

and I just want to tell jokes.

48:50

Sure. Sort of just

48:52

do some routines and probably a

48:54

loose thread that might hang through

48:56

it and stuff but yeah I don't want to do a

48:58

big ambitious sort of structured

49:01

show. Yeah. I've kind of moved away from

49:03

that I think. And do you know obviously

49:05

you've done lots of different things you're on

49:07

acting, presenting and you know do you feel

49:09

like stand-up's the main thing? Is that what

49:11

you keep going back to or is it

49:13

just part of the? Yeah I

49:16

always say stand-up is my wife

49:19

and acting is my mistress. Okay.

49:22

That's the way it does. Something else comes

49:24

second act stand-up is always first for me. Because

49:27

it's kind of easy you know like once you

49:29

start getting some TV gigs and TV money and

49:31

you know getting on a panel show or your

49:34

own show it kind of becomes easy to go. Writing

49:38

a stand-up show is harder in a

49:40

lot of ways than doing things like that. Yeah

49:42

more exposing, it's more lonely, it's

49:44

more tiring. But

49:47

then also the rewards for it are like nothing

49:49

else I've experienced. The sort of being in the

49:51

room once you've finished writing your show

49:53

and you're touring it or even just in the clubs

49:55

when you know you've written a bit and you go

49:57

to the clubs and the energy in clubs is always

49:59

the same. are always so great as

50:01

well. And just, yeah, there's nothing that

50:03

bit when people, when a whole room

50:05

of people laugh and sometimes applaud a

50:07

bit that you've created, nothing else comes

50:09

close. Yeah. And is your

50:11

audience, you know, because I'm interested because

50:13

obviously you, you know, you're

50:15

playing to two different audiences in the

50:18

book, I think, and in the previous

50:20

stand-up show. Is your audience mainly

50:24

Muslims? Is it sort of mixed audience or

50:26

is it? It is very mixed. Depending on

50:28

the time you go, it will sort of

50:30

dictate what sort of audience it is. So

50:32

if I'm in Blackburn or Bradford, you

50:35

can sort of guess the demographic of the people that might

50:37

come see me. But when I came to Cholley a couple

50:39

of years ago, it was mainly

50:41

a white English audience. Or if I go to

50:44

Bristol, for example, but then if I'm

50:46

in Manchester or London, it'd be very mixed. Not

50:48

quite 50-50, maybe like 60-40 maybe. So

50:51

yeah, it depends on where I am in the country,

50:53

the demographics of the room. But yeah, I've

50:55

quite a nice mixed audience because they come

50:57

from different places, like from BBC Radio 4,

51:00

from the Fringe, from the Circuit, from Man

51:02

Like Mobine. And then

51:04

Asian or Muslims who can see someone on TV that

51:07

they can relate to. I'm like, oh yeah, let's go

51:09

see someone that looks a bit like us. So

51:12

yeah, I've managed to sort of gather

51:14

an audience from a lot of different

51:16

places, which is nice. And that's obviously

51:18

important to you, I think, reading the

51:20

book as well, that you feel that

51:22

you didn't have that as when

51:24

you were a kid. You didn't have someone

51:26

to look at and go, oh, that's someone

51:28

like me, that's someone, you know. And

51:31

so yeah, you are that to other

51:33

people, I guess. To younger people. Yeah,

51:36

and you get some very nice DMs

51:38

and emails and all sorts from people who

51:40

you've inspired that you didn't know about, which

51:42

is a crazy, crazy thing for me because

51:44

I don't do this to inspire anyone. I

51:46

do it because I enjoy

51:48

doing it and I'm lucky to make a living from

51:50

it. But I never think about how

51:53

it's received, after people have laughed,

51:55

I've never think about how it resonates with

51:57

people, or how it hits with people, or.

52:00

how sort of, I'm sure you had

52:02

the same during the pandemic when

52:05

the messages from people telling you that you helped

52:07

them get through some dark times. A

52:10

lot of people told me that I made it a lot worse. That

52:16

made it brighter when they came out the other end. Yeah,

52:20

stuff like that is very, very nice,

52:22

but it's sort of a secondary responsibility

52:25

that gets projected onto you. So

52:29

you're not going to be doing any more a man

52:31

like Moby? Not that I

52:33

know of, not that I've been told. Are they

52:35

still doing it? Is there more? Well, there was

52:37

a series four that I wasn't in, and then

52:40

I think there are talks over series five, but

52:42

my character is

52:44

definitely dead. Eight is definitely

52:46

dead. But I've not

52:48

been told that I'm going to

52:51

be playing nine or ten or

52:53

seven. So some of the

52:55

where my involvement in it has ended, but

52:58

then, you know, never said never, I guess. Yeah. But

53:00

if it was up to me, I'd still be in it. If

53:04

it was up to me, I'd be in it. Might

53:08

be controversial in some ways. Yeah,

53:12

let's ask another, I'll ask a more

53:14

recent emergency question. Let me see what

53:17

I've got in. Actually, my new emergency question,

53:19

let's see. I like, you know, you

53:22

let's see if you've got one for this because you're

53:24

a bit younger than me, so it might be different

53:26

for me. What is your favorite opening titles from a

53:28

TV show? They

53:31

have one from. I have one

53:34

from more recently. I'm from yesteryear.

53:36

Okay. From yesteryear, Knight Rider. Okay.

53:39

I love that Knight Rider theme tune. I always thought it was

53:41

ahead of its time. And also the sampled

53:43

in the one Punjabi song that

53:45

everyone knows as well. So

53:48

I do love Knight Rider. But

53:51

more recently, I would say,

53:54

what was the show that the vampires

53:56

set in the South in America? True

53:59

Blood. Then what's true blood the

54:01

tiles the tiles of that are incredible, right?

54:03

Okay, that's they're really really good and then

54:05

Game of Thrones for one. Yeah, people will

54:08

recognize Game of Thrones is just too long

54:10

It's the tiles. It's what it's just too.

54:12

I like it. I'd like just more

54:15

you know in the fest and Being

54:23

murdered so I'd like yeah Four

54:25

seasons to figure out that whatever towns they

54:27

showed in the titles was what was gonna

54:30

happen in that Just

54:38

show the whole episode in there It's

54:40

a very quick version of it Just

54:43

let you know how much you have to fast forward

54:45

to get to the bits where there's someone's bottom That's

54:48

all you need Right, I'll do

54:50

it. Let's I'm gonna go random emergency questions and

54:53

then we would you know, it's been a terrific

54:55

It's gone again gone stupidly quickly. Let's

54:57

see what we have not that page. Oh

55:02

That's a bit I'm gonna ask it It's

55:06

not it's not an end of the show

55:08

question, do you think democracy is broken and

55:11

what would you replace it with? Yeah,

55:14

yeah, yeah, no hesitation whatsoever. I

55:16

would replace democracy with a benevolent

55:20

dictatorship Okay, complete in

55:22

charge. Is that you? No,

55:25

I'm not I'm not that benevolent but I think

55:27

I think an autocratic Dictatorship

55:30

where they put people in charge of

55:32

things who are experts in that job

55:34

would be much better than the system We have now.

55:36

I mean, wouldn't it just be doesn't have to be the

55:38

autocratic bit just people who are experts in the job in

55:41

the job Is

55:44

everyone just short-term thinking for the next election

55:46

and what is my legacy gonna

55:48

be? Once I leave the sea how

55:51

can I win the next election? Short-term populism

55:53

and all of that stuff and I just I'm

55:55

not into it. Yeah, give me a benevolent dictatorship

55:57

anytime well Be

56:00

careful you wish for. The

56:03

thing that people are arguing, I think

56:05

with democracy, I would just love every

56:07

vote to count. I think

56:10

first-past-the-ports doesn't work. The

56:13

argument against first-past-the-ports was you just get

56:15

coalition governments. But we just have

56:17

coalition governments anyway because all the parties, you

56:20

look at the Tory party, it's a coalition

56:22

of fucking... Of cunts, yeah. But

56:29

some of the cunts are really,

56:31

really big cunts. Some of them

56:33

are just well-meaning cunts. Who's

56:38

chosen the wrong side. But

56:42

you know, it's basically UKIP and soft

56:44

Tories and people who are basically liberals.

56:48

It's a coalition and then it can

56:50

fall apart if someone goes. So

56:52

yeah, I don't know. I'm

56:55

saying with Labour, you've got the right side of Labour

56:57

and then you've got all the way to the left

56:59

and stuff and everyone in the middle. But

57:02

you know, so politics is about... Democracy

57:04

could work if everyone

57:07

just, you know, has their

57:09

say and then everyone votes on it. But

57:11

it is, yeah, the party system is

57:14

screwed. But are we going to change it, Charlie?

57:18

Yes. No,

57:21

it's bad. We're not going to change

57:23

it. I don't think we are going to change it. Let's see

57:26

if I've got one with Cox or shit in it and then

57:28

we'll... That would be better. Also,

57:30

I've been in the civil service for 10 years, so

57:32

I saw very closely how things work. Yes, of course.

57:35

Or not. Well, but also, my friend used to work

57:37

in the civil service and left the civil service and,

57:39

you know, absolutely worked with the

57:42

government ministers and knew how

57:44

fucking shit they were and

57:47

how little they listened to anyone and post

57:49

Brexit, like loads of people left. Yeah, I

57:51

wrote speeches for Theresa May on

57:53

modern slavery, not on... That

57:56

was the one thing that she... So

57:58

I worked in the modern slavery unit. because she found

58:00

this one area that no one would object to.

58:03

So there's no pro-slavery lobby, everyone is

58:05

anti-slavery. So she found this one area

58:07

that she could look good in and

58:09

be like, I'm stopping modern slavery and

58:11

stuff. And everyone's like, that's great. So

58:14

she just used it as the one thing to be

58:16

like, look, I am a human being. But

58:19

sort of, it was quite a nice area to work in

58:21

because you feel like you're in the one area of the

58:23

home office that is actually something positive as

58:25

opposed to the rest of it. I mean, do you

58:28

think everyone disagrees? I think that the world's going to

58:30

a point where some people are going, no,

58:32

I think in GB news, there should be

58:34

a little bit of slavery. Yeah, make Britain

58:36

great again. Yeah. Good,

58:39

right, let's see what comes up. So

58:41

we've got the tour coming up. Is there anything else

58:44

exciting coming up for you? The SES who dares wins,

58:46

that would be on the telly at some point next

58:48

year. Yeah. Were there any toss-pots?

58:54

No, I was dead now. Were they nice? No

58:56

Matt Hancock in that one? No, I

58:58

had John Burrowman and he lasted half

59:00

an afternoon. Right? I

59:04

don't know why. He just came on us and we

59:06

were like, John? What are you doing? They

59:09

were just like, yeah, he just didn't fancy it.

59:11

And I shouldn't tell you what, I'm spoiling the

59:13

series. But yeah,

59:15

I didn't win, so I don't care. But

59:18

no, just everyone's dead now. Everyone's just

59:20

dead now. So a lot of reality

59:22

people, reality TV people, who before

59:25

I'd ever worked with any, I had kind of

59:27

quite a negative view on. But

59:30

the more that I've looked with them and the more that

59:32

I meet them, I just think, A, they're very lovely, B,

59:35

they're very, very smart and very, very

59:37

good at what they do. And just all, just

59:39

sort of, just dead nice. And sort of not

59:41

very political in terms of like, but just also

59:43

not necessarily a good thing either, but just very like, they're

59:46

there to do their job and they don't

59:48

really think much else about, or if they do have

59:50

much opinion about the rest of the world, they kind

59:52

of just keep it to themselves. And if they're just

59:54

focused on making their money and

59:56

doing their job, just in a way quite admirable. I wish

59:59

I could be like that. I

1:00:03

think you're engaged

1:00:05

with the world and you're interested in the world

1:00:08

and you can be

1:00:10

outspoken about stuff. And

1:00:12

I think that's a thing that

1:00:14

we're losing from TV

1:00:16

because you can't go on

1:00:19

those sort of shows and start

1:00:22

saying the things that you want to say. So

1:00:26

it's interesting but I think you've got

1:00:28

to keep that spark inside you at

1:00:30

least. As

1:00:33

we're all human beings we have different aspects of our

1:00:35

lives and we don't have to – that's

1:00:37

what your stuff is. Your stand up is

1:00:39

that. It's not about, it's not like going here

1:00:41

I'm going to talk about Islam or I'm going

1:00:43

to talk about this. Those are things

1:00:45

that just weave through it. But if

1:00:48

you just got up on stage and talked about

1:00:51

something seriously it wouldn't be the

1:00:54

same. I think

1:00:56

you do brilliantly in the book. It's just

1:00:58

weaving together all these different aspects.

1:01:01

Right, let's see what comes up. This

1:01:04

is it. Make or break for

1:01:06

this podcast episode. All

1:01:08

depend on this question.

1:01:12

What is the most embarrassing photo of you that your

1:01:14

family have on display? I can't think. That's

1:01:16

not good. We have to get it out and put

1:01:18

it up. I'm

1:01:21

trying to think if what I've got of that. I've

1:01:23

never asked that question before. I

1:01:26

don't want to ruin the

1:01:28

vibes but I

1:01:30

don't have a lot of pictures from me as a kid

1:01:33

because my stepdad burnt them all. When

1:01:36

he kicked me out he burnt a

1:01:39

lot of my couple of

1:01:41

albums of old pictures. I don't have a

1:01:43

lot. Wow, that's

1:01:45

fucking amazing though. If you've read

1:01:48

the book, if you've read the book, you

1:01:50

were the character. Yeah, of course. But

1:01:53

also the thing I was going to say in your book

1:01:55

is you burnt all your school

1:01:57

books as well. I did. I

1:02:00

burnt, the only subject I didn't like was

1:02:02

art, and I was very bad at it,

1:02:05

and I burnt all the art I drew

1:02:08

at middle school, I burnt it all in a fire. Is

1:02:11

that the same, is that why, burning

1:02:13

your books? Yeah, the reason I

1:02:15

burnt, so I just burned my, as in the- Your

1:02:17

exercise books. Yeah, all my exercise books from school. Generally,

1:02:20

the reason I did it is because my

1:02:23

cousin did it. And

1:02:25

I wasn't a very cool kid, and I thought, oh

1:02:27

yeah, that's fucking cool now. And

1:02:30

so I thought I'd burn mine, and now I'm like, what a fucking dickhead.

1:02:33

Why did I do that for? Like, that

1:02:35

would have been a treasure trove. It fucking helped me

1:02:37

write the book, first of all. What

1:02:41

a treasure trove, I thought. And

1:02:43

yeah, so I regret that, but I just wanted to

1:02:46

be, to do something, because I thought my cousin was very cool, so

1:02:48

I thought that was a cool thing that he did. So I thought,

1:02:50

I think for him it was a cool thing to do, because he

1:02:52

didn't really like school, and he didn't really get on with it as

1:02:54

much as I did, but I liked school, so it wasn't a cool

1:02:56

thing for me to do. That detail,

1:02:59

just because I'd done it on

1:03:01

a small scale, and I know

1:03:03

why I did it, it's because

1:03:05

it signified my own failure. It's just

1:03:08

me trying to be something that I

1:03:10

wasn't. Yeah, that's interesting. And yeah, you

1:03:12

know, that's, I

1:03:14

kept nearly everything I have to say, and

1:03:16

most of it is not stuff that you

1:03:18

wanna look back at, like maths, because those

1:03:20

are not interesting. From when

1:03:22

you were 12, when you were four, you

1:03:24

go, oh, like, when you're 12, oh, fucking

1:03:27

hell, I wish I'd thrown this away. It's

1:03:29

definitely difficult to throw away. So burn your

1:03:31

books, kids, burn your exercise books,

1:03:33

your school books. It is,

1:03:35

yeah, that's a moment of sadness

1:03:40

at the end of this joyful. I

1:03:43

still didn't know you asked it, I felt, oh, I could

1:03:45

just make something up. No, but again,

1:03:47

I think that's what I like about you, that you

1:03:49

would do that, and I think it's, you

1:03:52

know, fucking hell. Oh,

1:03:55

yeah, but you just think about, well, you have to

1:03:57

think about what kind of person that would be, you

1:03:59

know, you know. The minute you know that, the kind of

1:04:01

person who would do it, because it doesn't matter, you know, you

1:04:04

have to be a certain type of person to do that. And,

1:04:08

you know, and it's

1:04:10

fucking, yeah, he was. He

1:04:13

actually still is, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:17

So you come out well. And on that note,

1:04:19

ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for the

1:04:21

amazing Cheziliac. Thanks

1:04:23

so much. Thanks, everyone. Hopefully see you

1:04:25

on the Amai stand-up tour as well. You

1:04:31

up there listening to Alas Appa with

1:04:33

me, Richard Herring, and my guest, Cheziliac.

1:04:36

Thank you to Scamfregard for doing the music.

1:04:38

And also, I'm indebted to my producer, director,

1:04:40

friend, Chris Evans, not that one, and his

1:04:42

son, Ben Evans, not that one. Thank

1:04:45

you to Becca, his virtual manager, George Linkford,

1:04:47

who's the incompetent sound man, and everybody at

1:04:49

Chorley's Little Theatre for looking after us for

1:04:51

a second week. It's lovely to have a

1:04:53

sack. This is the Skype

1:04:55

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1:06:28

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1:06:47

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1:06:49

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