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1:06

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode

1:08

of The Rise Together podcast. I am excited

1:11

and little nervous. To be honest, we're gonna talk

1:14

about sex today. With co

1:16

authors of a brand new book called Sex

1:18

Talks, Vanessa Marin, and

1:20

Xander Marin. They're here to

1:23

talk about all the things. It

1:25

is a little strange. I was just

1:27

telling them off camera before we started.

1:30

I'm recording this episode in my parents

1:32

house. And if you told me coming

1:35

from where I've come from with sex talks that I've had

1:37

that I'd be recording a conversation

1:39

with therapists, talking about sex, about

1:41

a book, talking about sex in the house,

1:44

that my parents reside in. I just said you

1:46

were crazy, but here we are. Vanessa

1:49

is a licensed psychotherapist She

1:51

specializes in sex therapy. She's

1:53

got a bachelor's in human sexuality and

1:55

sociology from Brown University and a

1:57

master's in counseling psychology.

2:00

She's written for The New York Times, Allure, and

2:02

LifeHacker, and has been featured many times

2:04

in big publications like Oprah Daley,

2:07

Harper's Bazaar, Vogue, and Real Simple.

2:09

And Xandr well, he's just a regular

2:11

dude who left cushy career in tech once

2:14

he realized that it was more fun to talk about sex

2:16

with his wife all day. He's here to show you that

2:18

you don't need a graduate degree or a

2:20

license to have extraordinary communication skills.

2:22

You just need to have an open mind and willingness,

2:25

please. Welcome Vanessa and

2:27

Xander to the Rise to get a podcast. Welcome

2:32

to Rise Together. My name is Dave Hollis.

2:34

I'm the host of this show where we're gonna

2:36

hopefully have you feeling a

2:38

little more normal. In this,

2:41

the human experience Maybe

2:43

see yourself even in some of the stories

2:45

that are told or have your

2:47

appreciation of what it means to be human expanded

2:50

by someone who's come on as a guest who's

2:52

had a different life experience. In

2:55

all of it, we are trying our

2:57

best in community to learn

2:59

from each other, to grow and

3:01

maybe even have a little bit more compassion for

3:03

what it's like to walk in each other's shoes.

3:06

When we do, we all

3:08

rise together.

3:19

Hello friends.

3:21

Hey, Dave. We're so excited to be here.

3:23

Thanks for having us. I'm super excited

3:25

that you're here. Before

3:27

I get into being weird about being in my

3:30

parents' house and talking about my my first

3:32

sex talk. I

3:34

tried to give just little headline into kind

3:36

of who you are and how you're here. But

3:38

in your own words, could you, for people who are less

3:40

familiar with your work, just give a little bit of

3:42

background on how you found

3:44

yourself in this work and

3:47

a question I ask everybody who comes on the show,

3:49

how you feel like the work that you're doing

3:52

is you living into your purpose

3:54

on this planet?

3:55

I initially got interested in

3:57

the field of sex therapy because of

4:00

the talk with my fair parents. It

4:02

was very awkward. My parents

4:05

basically, their version of the talk was

4:07

if you have questions, you can ask

4:09

us. But it was very clear to me in that

4:11

moment that what they were really saying was,

4:13

please for the love of God, do not ask us anything.

4:15

We don't have to talk about it. And

4:17

I had no idea that sex therapy existed

4:20

at the time, but I was very struck in

4:22

that moment of how embarrassed

4:25

they seemed. And I had

4:27

a lot of questions. I wanted to talk

4:29

about it. So I kept coming back to

4:31

that belief over and over again.

4:33

And eventually decided to make

4:35

a career out of helping people talk

4:38

about sex. So that's what the book's

4:40

all about. That's we do together now.

4:42

So we have a business where we really focus

4:44

on helping couples keep the spark alive

4:47

in long term relationships. So

4:49

I've known that this has been part of my mission

4:51

basically since that first conversation and

4:55

it brings me so much joy

4:57

and fulfillment every time we get

4:59

to hear a story from someone in our community

5:01

saying, you inspired me to have this

5:03

conversation. I had the best sex

5:05

in my life last

5:06

night. All the stories are so

5:08

great to hear. So, you know,

5:10

me on the other hand, I never had any idea

5:13

that I would have anything to do with this.

5:15

When I met Vanessa, she was training

5:17

to be a sex therapist. I thought that was super

5:19

cool because, you know, what guy wouldn't want to tell

5:21

their other guy friends like, hey, I'm dating

5:24

a sex therapist. Like, that sounds

5:26

pretty cool. Right? But the thing is

5:28

is that I didn't I felt a little

5:30

uncomfortable when it came to actually talking

5:32

about sex about our the, like, the sex

5:34

that we were having, that felt

5:36

like a really uncomfortable thing, but I

5:38

was was happy to talk with Vanessa about,

5:41

you know, sex therapy as a career. I thought

5:43

that was really interesting. I just never

5:45

thought we'd be talking about our

5:47

own sex life. What happened

5:49

was over time, I helping Vanessa

5:52

out as her online business started growing.

5:54

And I started doing more of the operational things

5:57

and, you know, kinda quickly started managing

5:59

the operations of our growing business

6:01

and I totally thought that was all that I

6:03

was gonna do. But Vanessa started

6:06

asking me if I might do some Instagram

6:08

stories or and coaching calls

6:11

and stuff like that. And it's like no one wants to hear

6:13

from me. What what do I know? I haven't done any

6:15

of this training. I don't have any value

6:17

to add. But she she would start

6:19

asking me a question here or there. Like, she'd record

6:21

a story and then she'd turn to me and be

6:23

like, hey, Sandra, what do you think about this?

6:25

And I started to tricking him.

6:27

Yeah. It was

6:28

Tricking him into slowly join. It

6:30

was it was really subtle, but yeah.

6:33

Then and but I started to realize

6:35

that, you know, people actually do

6:37

like to hear the regular guy's perspective

6:40

or, you know, the partner that doesn't have any

6:42

training because it's it's one thing to get advice

6:44

from someone, you know, a professional or

6:46

whatever. It's another thing to get

6:48

advice, but also, like, hey, this is how

6:50

it works in our relationship. We struggled

6:53

with this too. And as I started

6:55

getting really positive feedback from people

6:57

about how How much more open

6:59

they were to trying some of these things when

7:01

they could see that we were actually doing it

7:03

ourselves and leading with

7:04

vulnerability. Then I started realizing,

7:06

okay, I think I do I do have a place

7:08

here. So it's it's really cool to get to be able to

7:10

do this. So cool. I relate

7:13

you know, like in my marriage when I was

7:15

married, we did not actually

7:17

dive into and have a lot of conversation

7:20

about sex. And there was a

7:22

a casualty to intimacy or

7:25

some of what would have otherwise been better

7:27

sex if we'd been willing to have it. And

7:29

I'm wondering in the work

7:31

that you do if you can identify why

7:33

in the world. This is such

7:35

a hard thing for us to have a conversation about

7:37

it. I'll just say for me, if

7:39

there was a thing that I really wanted

7:42

or if there was a thing that was not feeling

7:44

great about, I think I was so

7:46

concerned with hurting the feelings

7:49

of my partner that I didn't

7:51

wanna bring it up or

7:54

I was a little uncomfortable owning

7:56

the fact that I wanted a thing

7:59

that could be in the delivery of

8:01

this, hey, I want this thing rejected

8:04

or made make me in some way feel

8:06

weird for liking something that

8:08

maybe isn't necessarily on the menu for the other

8:10

person. But what's your experience

8:13

with why this is such a hard conversation to

8:15

even have Even if it's inside of a

8:17

marriage, like, people that have been together forever, why

8:19

is it still so hard? Oh,

8:21

so much to unpack there. So let's start

8:23

with the question of why is it hard It's

8:26

because we don't have any examples or

8:28

any role models. I mean, if you think about

8:30

every sex scene you've seen on TV

8:32

and in the movies, you never

8:35

see characters talking to each other

8:37

about the sex they're having. And so when

8:39

we see this scene unfold

8:41

time and time and time again, we

8:44

internalize that belief that we shouldn't

8:46

have to talk about it. If I've met my

8:48

person, if we have great chemistry,

8:51

we shouldn't need to talk about it. And

8:53

we have this belief that talking about

8:55

it is a bad thing. It's a sign that

8:57

something is wrong or off. So

8:59

then when it comes to specific things

9:01

that we might wanna request or desires

9:03

that we have, we don't have any

9:06

foundation of having those conversations.

9:08

It's not a comfortable topic. It's not something

9:10

that we're discussing regularly. So

9:13

a lot of us feel extra pressure

9:15

when we have something specific we wanna share

9:17

with our partner. And in our heads, it can

9:20

feel really scary. Like, it can

9:22

sound like it's gonna be an insult to my partner.

9:24

It's gonna hurt them. It's gonna upset them.

9:26

And sometimes it can even come out that way too

9:29

because we're feeling so anxious

9:31

about

9:31

it. Yeah. Or or we hold it in and we hold

9:33

it in then finally when we get

9:35

to encouraged to say something. It's because we've reached

9:38

a breaking point and what ends up coming

9:40

out sounds a lot more serious than what

9:42

would have come out

9:43

say, know, two years ago, if you had

9:45

just kind of set it the first time it came to

9:47

mind. Right? I wonder, you

9:49

know, like, who knows? Like, since I'm

9:51

sitting here and Patty and Dave's house,

9:53

Dave's senior. You know, the

9:55

way that I was introduced to

9:57

sex was by having

10:00

one of my parents hand me a cassette tape

10:03

from a religious person

10:05

called James Dobson. And

10:08

I put it on while I was mowing lawn. And

10:11

the framing of what sex

10:13

was through the lens of this

10:15

very conservative religious voice

10:18

really informed the way that I felt

10:21

about sex for a very very long

10:23

time. Mhmm. In

10:25

some ways, I can appreciate

10:27

that man good intentions can

10:29

sometimes lead to bad execution.

10:31

And also, I can't

10:33

help but think, like, man, learn from

10:37

a little of how your introduction

10:40

had in some sometimes there was shame,

10:42

sometimes there was embarrassment, sometimes there was

10:44

know, if there was a whole host of things, and

10:47

I wonder if maybe that first

10:49

conversation had been different, if

10:52

permission that I would have felt or the normalness

10:54

that would have come and having a conversation would

10:56

have been a little bit different. Can you talk

10:59

just for a second about, like, how

11:01

the introduction or that first sex

11:03

talk informs the way that there is

11:05

healthiness or unhealthiness

11:07

insects for the rest of your

11:10

stinking life. Well, actually, first,

11:12

I just wanna say, you're the first person I've ever

11:14

heard of who have the talk through a cassette tape.

11:16

So very special shot.

11:19

Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, what

11:21

what you described is such a common

11:23

experience whether it's through a cassette

11:25

tape or through some other means, I think

11:27

most of our first experiences talking

11:29

about sex is our parents having the

11:32

talk or, you know, whatever the proxy is. So

11:34

the cassette in your case. And so,

11:36

yeah, the the and the message that we end up

11:38

receiving from that is Well, it's an

11:40

awkward conversation. That's probably because

11:43

our parents aren't very comfortable talking

11:45

about sex with each other. They're definitely

11:47

not comfortable talking about sex you. In the example,

11:49

you just gave Dave. It sounds like they were so

11:52

uncomfortable to talk about sex with you that

11:54

they gave you they literally outsourced

11:56

it to you know, to to

11:58

cassette tape. Right? So, of course, we

12:00

pick up on that energy. You know, Vanessa picked

12:02

up on the fact that her parents were obviously

12:05

very embarrassed, didn't actually want her

12:07

to ask any questions. And so she immediately

12:09

said, okay, I have questions, but

12:11

I'm not gonna ask. And so all of us come

12:14

away with whatever energy we

12:16

get in, you know, that that first conversation

12:18

or the first couple conversations. And

12:21

I I know for me, I had an awkward the

12:23

talk with with my dad. And

12:25

then, you know, early on, you know, if I

12:27

traced back my relationship history, I definitely

12:30

had, you know, awkward moments when

12:32

it came to talking about sex

12:34

or sort of like a, you know, someone

12:36

asking, like, what's your fantasy and kind

12:38

of freezing up? Or those type of things

12:40

where I came away you know, all these early

12:42

experiences of every time we talk

12:44

about it, it's awkward, it's shameful,

12:47

I feel embarrassed. So and

12:49

that's just so common. So, of course, you end up

12:51

carrying all that with you.

12:53

Okay. The kids are already asking what's

12:55

for dinner. But breaking news empty

12:58

fridge. That's okay. I'll Instacart.

13:00

Let's add some organic asparagus and some farm

13:02

fresh chicken. Easy. Wait, is the

13:04

oldest vegetarian this week or was it gluten

13:06

free? Gluten free pasta. Cover

13:08

it either way. Card it. And finally, some

13:10

vegetarian gluten free olives for my

13:13

well earned cocktail. When your family shopping

13:15

list has more footnotes than groceries, the

13:17

world is your cart. Visit instacart

13:20

dot com or download the app and get free

13:22

delivery on your first order. Offer valid

13:24

for limited time. Minimum order ten dollars

13:26

delivery subject to availability. Additional terms

13:28

apply.

13:29

It's such an interesting thing. I was I was raised in

13:31

a very conservative Christian household there

13:34

were some, like, pretty serious things

13:36

suggested about when you should or shouldn't

13:39

or if you did what you were. And I

13:43

I think in part because of some of how the

13:45

conversation started and the way

13:47

that it had been framed, I didn't feel comfortable

13:50

coming to have a conversation about almost anything.

13:52

Because I was so, like, interested in

13:54

being good or right,

13:57

that having any kind of

13:59

a follow-up conversation after

14:01

my cassette tapeboard deal. Just

14:04

felt like, oh, man, you're gonna get in trouble.

14:06

Don't get in trouble. And I

14:09

can see looking back on my

14:11

life, you know, in like my late teens and my

14:13

early twenties that, like, man, it would have been really

14:15

lovely. To actually be able to have a conversation

14:17

with someone who could have helped

14:20

me appreciate some of the nuances of

14:22

what the heck all of this is. I was

14:24

driving home from a baseball tournament

14:26

with my son, he's in traveling baseball. He's

14:29

fourteen. And I

14:32

am really interested to understand, hey,

14:34

like, what's actually happening.

14:37

Like, this is a young age. Like, at fourteen,

14:39

I didn't get to didn't even talk to a girl.

14:42

I was tall, skinny, super darky,

14:44

and nerdy, and also he's

14:46

a stud on the sports teams.

14:48

And I I just I was nervous. Like,

14:50

hey. And I opened up a

14:52

conversation that

14:55

I was surprised how hard it was

14:57

for me to want

14:59

to answer his questions honestly

15:02

because I'd like to almost

15:04

like kinda guide him to really

15:07

staying away from anything that could create

15:09

deep heartache or have him, like,

15:12

all the things because there is just there's so much that comes

15:14

with it. But also, I

15:16

wanted to create this, like, kind of, open

15:18

space so that if he actually

15:20

finds himself contemplating doing

15:22

something. Me telling him not

15:24

to do something or warning him about how it's

15:27

gonna be and then not having a space

15:29

for conversation, ain't gonna stop them from doing

15:31

a stinking thing. And so

15:33

we had what was a

15:35

beautiful and also for me a little

15:38

uncomfortable conversation as he

15:40

asked me things that I was like, oh my

15:42

god, sir. I can't believe that you're

15:44

asking, but

15:46

the appreciation that he had for my

15:48

honesty actually ended

15:50

up acting as an a rotation for him to

15:52

come back when it was time next

15:55

for something. And God bless him. Ain't

15:57

nothing happened with this fourteen year old. I wanna, like,

15:59

celebrate good times come on. But

16:01

but like, at a minimum, if

16:04

it's two years or four years or eight years

16:06

from now, at least he knows foundationally

16:08

that there's a safe space. If someone's

16:10

listening and they've got a kid. And

16:13

by the way, could be rooted in religion where they

16:15

wanna tell them, like, wait until you

16:17

get married to have sex, Is

16:19

there is there a way that you recommend

16:22

creating that space so that if

16:24

they decide to be kids who are kids

16:26

that don't wanna listen to any of what you're

16:29

saying, they at least are invited

16:31

to come into and have a conversation with someone

16:33

who can help kind of explain the

16:35

nuances of what's

16:36

happening, make sure that they're being safe, all the rest.

16:39

One of the big fears that comes up for parents

16:41

is if we talk about this openly,

16:44

it will be seen as permission for

16:46

the kid to

16:47

go, do whatever they want or, like, the more

16:49

information they have, the more sexual

16:51

they will be. And there's actually research showing

16:53

that that's just not true. The more information

16:56

kids have, the more confident they

16:58

feel to make healthy and safe decisions

17:00

for themselves. So the fact that you're having

17:02

these conversations with your son that he's

17:04

coming back to you to have more conversations is

17:07

such a great sign. And you

17:09

can even say that directly to your child

17:11

of, like, you know, I want you to feel safe,

17:14

to to ask me whatever questions you have, to

17:16

give what, you know, whatever in information you wanna know.

17:18

And I will share with you, you know, my

17:20

opinion of what I think you should do or

17:22

what I think I wish I could have done when

17:24

I was at that age, what does feel healthy, but

17:27

know that you're gonna make your own decisions

17:29

and I want you to be equipped with that. The other

17:32

great thing about kids is that you

17:34

can be really honest with them about

17:36

your shortcomings It's like you can say to your

17:38

son, I man, this conversation

17:40

is hard for me. I am glad

17:43

you're asking. I appreciate it. I'm

17:45

doing my best. I have some shame that

17:47

I'm working through and it's important to

17:49

me to do that work. So I think kids respect

17:51

that a lot and you can even loop back around

17:53

if you have a conversation that you feel

17:55

like you didn't really handle so well,

17:57

go back to your kid and say, you know what,

18:00

you came to me, you had some question I

18:02

don't love the way that I answered

18:03

them. So I wanna get a take too

18:06

at that. And I think I think

18:08

also Like, just to

18:10

validate for people out there, yeah,

18:12

this stuff is awkward. And of

18:14

course, it's awkward because of all the reasons we

18:16

just discussed about our own experiences.

18:19

But I think that the key, especially whether

18:22

it's whether it's having these talks with your

18:24

kids or having these talks with your partners,

18:27

I think the important thing is how

18:29

we show up next after

18:31

having an awkward experience because,

18:33

you know, the the message that you got

18:36

from your parents and message I got from my parents

18:38

and finasa got from hers was there was one

18:40

awkward experience and then there were no

18:42

more experiences. Yeah. And so what we learned

18:44

was Oh, awkward equals no

18:46

go. We don't do it again. So I think I

18:48

think the key is is, you know,

18:50

feeling into okay. Yeah. That was super

18:53

awkward. That felt awkward. I'm gonna acknowledge

18:55

that that was awkward, and I'm gonna choose

18:57

to do it again. I'm gonna show up again.

19:00

And that's how we get through awkwardness is

19:02

we have to really feel it and we have to

19:04

choose to continue doing things that maybe

19:07

feel awkward. But the more we choose to

19:09

do them, the less awkward they're they'll

19:11

feel. And I think our kids or our

19:13

partners or whomever in life

19:15

will

19:15

appreciate, hey, this person is really showing

19:18

up and working through this. Love

19:21

that. I I know

19:23

that if you have awkward, it can

19:25

sometimes be followed by awkward. And I will just

19:27

tell you, I know this from personal experience

19:29

in that, just as I was

19:31

getting my driver's license, I

19:34

wanted to be cool with my friends.

19:37

Mhmm. And I went and stole,

19:40

like, Larson. The

19:43

table card. It was little triangle at

19:45

Karl's Jr. That had the number

19:47

sixty nine on it. Now, I

19:49

very close. I've been told by my friends

19:52

that there was this thing that was, like,

19:54

whatever. Like, it had this, like, status.

19:56

And I was, like, oh, I wanna be

19:58

cool. And I can still remember.

20:00

I mean, the man is standing, like, eighteen

20:02

feet behind me. I drove my

20:04

car home. I'd had my license for two weeks. This

20:07

number is now sitting on my dashboard.

20:09

Like, what in the world

20:11

it's so embarrassing now to even acknowledge

20:14

this. And he said, do you know

20:16

what that means? Like, do you know what

20:18

do you know what this says? And I was like, I don't,

20:20

but I know that my friends think it is very

20:23

cool and then it required an

20:26

even more awkward conversation station to

20:28

dive into what it was before I had

20:30

to drive back to Karl's junior and drop her back

20:32

off. So anyway, there I think there's

20:35

some benefit to Pulling

20:37

the band aid off with some of the awkwardness so

20:39

that you can just have every other conversation feel

20:41

a little less awkward for sure. In

20:43

the book, you guys have broken

20:46

it into three different parts and it's followed by

20:48

a quiz. But the first part talks about

20:50

destroying the fairytale. For

20:52

the listener. Will you tell

20:55

what this fairy tale is and why there

20:57

needs to be destruction? We

20:59

did talk about the way that we see

21:01

sex on TV and movies, kind of

21:03

like what was alluding to earlier. We

21:06

see the scene. It always unfolds in

21:08

the same way. Right? Right? Like, the characters,

21:10

they just look at each other. There's no initiation

21:12

of sex. It's like, you just look at each other

21:14

and it's on. You're dashing into

21:16

the bedroom ten seconds later. Clothes

21:19

are flying off. It's wildly passionate.

21:21

There's only ever intercourse that you're

21:23

seeing, and it's about ten seconds of rolling

21:26

around in the sheets. And everybody

21:28

magically has an orgasm at the exact

21:30

same time. Oh, great. And I know.

21:32

It sounds delightful. So

21:35

when we see sex portrayed this

21:37

way over and over for our entire

21:39

lifetimes, of course, we internalize. That's

21:41

what it's supposed to look like. And

21:43

so in the book, we get really vulnerable

21:46

about our own sex life and we really

21:48

break down, you know, that's not what

21:50

sex looks like in real life.

21:53

And it's okay if that's not what your

21:55

sex life looks like. So many of us

21:57

have this idea that something's wrong with

21:59

us. Maybe we're not in the right relationship. We're not

22:01

with the right person. If our sex life

22:03

doesn't look the way we see it on screen and

22:05

we just wanted to demolish that

22:07

belief.

22:08

I love it. The the second big section

22:11

is all about the different sex

22:14

talks to have. The book again, it's called sex talks.

22:16

It came out on Tuesday, it is available

22:18

wherever you can buy books. So if you are interested

22:20

in either spicing up or

22:22

maybe resuscitating your

22:25

sex life, there is a now perfect

22:28

guide for you to dive into so you can have the right kind

22:30

of conversations. But there are five

22:32

conversations in this second

22:34

section that you

22:36

walk the reader through so that they can

22:39

have them in pursuit of

22:41

this hope for a better, more meaningful

22:43

sex life. Could you just take us through

22:45

beat by beat through what those five are

22:47

without giving too much of what's in the book away.

22:50

Yeah. We're happy to give the full five

22:52

conversations will let you know what's coming.

22:55

So the first conversation is

22:57

acknowledgement. It's like sex

22:59

is a thing and we have it. So

23:02

one of the big mistakes that most of us make

23:04

when it comes to talking about segues is

23:06

like we're saying earlier, we don't have these conversations.

23:09

We wait until something's really bad. That

23:11

just makes sex feel like a scary

23:13

topic. So we wanted to start on

23:15

a completely different note and

23:17

ease the reader into it. We know people are gonna

23:19

be feeling embarrassed and uncomfortable picking

23:22

up this book, so we start easy promise

23:24

you. Plus, that's one of the best ways

23:26

to to defeat that awkwardness.

23:29

Right? Is instead of trying to

23:31

have a big complex conversation,

23:33

it's it's figuring out how we can

23:35

make sex an everyday type of

23:37

topic so that it doesn't feel

23:39

awkward. Yeah. So the converse so

23:41

the second conversation is

23:43

connection. What do we need to feel

23:46

connected to each other? Because for so

23:48

many couples in long term relationships,

23:50

we start to feel like strangers to

23:52

each other. We feel like we're roommates rather

23:55

than romantic partners, and that

23:57

can make intimacy feel like such

23:59

a high bar. You know, if you've been disconnected

24:01

all day, then you get into the bedroom at night. There's

24:03

an awkwardness to it. It's like, hey,

24:06

who are you? You know? So

24:08

this conversation is all about

24:10

subtle and easy ways for couples

24:12

to maintain that sense of emotional intimacy.

24:15

Throughout the day so they feel close to

24:17

each other and it feels easier to connect physically.

24:21

Officially one hour until your favorite

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24:34

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24:37

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24:48

Minimum order ten dollars, additional term

24:50

supply. Then we move into conversation

24:53

number three, desire. What

24:55

do we need to feel turned on and

24:57

excited about being intimate with each

24:59

other. So another area that a lot of us in

25:01

long term relationships struggle with, like, why

25:04

is it not so easy? It's just giving each other

25:06

the

25:06

look.

25:07

Yeah. Why does it not just happen naturally

25:09

or spontaneously? Mhmm. It's not just

25:11

blocking the locking the bedroom door is the

25:13

sign that something's about to go down.

25:15

Yeah. We covered much more

25:17

fun ways to initiate SAGS.

25:19

One of the models that we share in there is

25:21

the initiations style. If it's

25:23

kinda similar to the love languages, like,

25:25

we all have a style that we like

25:28

sex to be initiated

25:29

in. So that's one of the exercises

25:31

there. The fourth conversation is

25:33

pleasure. What do we need to

25:35

feel good to have Just made somebody feel

25:37

uncomfortable on this podcast who's listening right

25:39

now. Wait. Pleasure is part sex? What are we talking

25:42

about?

25:43

Oh, yeah. That's a big one. And

25:45

there's a lot of great information in that chapter

25:48

about the differences in the way male and female.

25:50

Pleasure work that a lot of people don't understand

25:53

again because of the way we see sex in

25:55

the movies. And then we wrap things up

25:57

with conversation five, exploration,

26:00

what should we try next? So

26:02

we've all heard the advice to keep it spicy,

26:04

try new things in the bedroom, but this conversation

26:07

is about making it really practical

26:09

and we even give you a menu of options

26:12

to choose from, so you're not left feeling on

26:14

the spot. Like, I don't even know

26:16

what new things to

26:17

try. What are my options? I don't get

26:19

it. And also how to talk about that without

26:22

it feeling like like you were kind of alluding

26:24

to this earlier day of like,

26:27

suggesting trying something new

26:29

as as like an insult to the other

26:31

partner that that whatever, like, you know,

26:33

whatever else they were doing wasn't work

26:36

for you. So I think, you know, that's one of those that's

26:38

one of the reasons why a lot of people

26:39

are, you know, worried about having those types of conversations.

26:42

So we wanted to really break down

26:44

that conversation and do it in a

26:46

really fun way that that isn't

26:48

gonna feel like anyone is getting blamed

26:51

or or insulted. Yeah. Initiating

26:54

sex is an interesting thing. Especially,

26:57

I think if you end up being the person who

27:00

has a little high higher libido or

27:02

a little more desire. Mhmm. Are

27:04

there any tips or tricks for,

27:07

well, initiation, maybe generally

27:09

speaking. But also, if you're a partner

27:12

who continues to suggest

27:14

that you know what, you're not in the mood, it's not the right

27:16

time. I'm not feeling it, whatever. If

27:18

there's a desire for an exceptional relationship, I'm

27:20

gonna guess that there's some want of, ah,

27:22

wouldn't it be great if my libido were just

27:25

in line or closer to this

27:27

partner who's always asking for sex.

27:29

Any tips on on how to initiate

27:32

in a way that isn't gonna make you feel

27:34

like crap if you get turned down. And

27:36

and maybe even, you know, like, how to turn

27:38

down in a way that doesn't make your partner feel

27:40

like, crap. If you're in the mood, if you're not in the mood,

27:43

And then beyond that, it like, how to kind of

27:45

tweak libido? That's a lot of questions in one

27:47

question, but I know there are people

27:49

who need this answer. Well, fortunately,

27:52

the I think think the bulk of the

27:54

book really kind of untangles that whole

27:56

question. I think that that's really one of key

27:58

the key issues in long term

28:00

relationships. Okay. Let's

28:01

start with the initiation part of it. We'll go

28:04

through all different pieces. So when

28:06

it comes to initiation, the biggest thing

28:08

that happens in long term relationships is

28:10

that we stop making very much of an effort.

28:12

Because initiation is vulnerable. You're putting

28:14

yourself out there. You're asking for something.

28:16

You're in the position of being turned down.

28:19

So most of us, if we're really honest with ourselves,

28:21

you know, ask yourself, what does sex look like when

28:23

you initiate it? It's usually, like, I

28:26

guess, like, should we do it? It's been

28:28

a while.

28:29

Probably should. Right?

28:31

Hey, you wanna do it? Yeah. Well, like,

28:33

that doesn't sound very fun or exciting

28:35

because, I mean, think about imagine

28:38

you wanna go see a friend of yours

28:40

and you're calling them up to invite them

28:42

to hang out. You're not gonna tell your friend like

28:45

hey, it's been a while. guess

28:47

we should hang. Right? Like -- Yeah. -- you're

28:49

like, hey, there's this new restaurant that

28:51

just open. What if we got drinks

28:53

at the place around the corner? I can't wait to see.

28:55

Like, there's an excitement to it. Right?

28:57

So the main tip with initiation is we

28:59

need to bring some segment into it. It needs

29:02

to feel like an invitation, something

29:04

that somebody is gonna want to say yes

29:06

to. So that's where the initiation styles

29:08

comes

29:08

in, is understanding the way

29:11

that your partner is gonna get excited

29:13

about being initiated. I okay. Before

29:15

we go to the next piece because I I wanna, like,

29:17

spend two seconds on this. So

29:19

if someone who's listening has

29:22

a higher libido than their husband or a higher libido

29:24

than their wife, they have been

29:26

the initiation specialist. For some

29:28

length of time. And their energy

29:31

around initiation is commensurate with

29:34

feeling, like, I can't

29:36

ever get a yes. How do

29:38

you kind of like shake that rut?

29:40

How do you get somebody who maybe

29:42

feels little scouraged or maybe like, oh, is there

29:45

something wrong with me that I keep getting to know

29:47

to feel like they can

29:49

bring that

29:50

energy? So a super practical thing that

29:52

couples can do. Is take a minute

29:54

to think about what were some of your

29:56

favorite ways that your partner has ever

29:58

initiated sex with you. So go back

30:00

through the holes end of your relationship. Think

30:03

about it. See if you can identify, like,

30:05

at least two to three different times your partner

30:07

has initiated that you really like. And

30:09

then share those with each other. Because

30:12

if we don't know if, you know, if I don't

30:14

know the way that Xandr likes to be initiated,

30:16

I might be really missing him in

30:18

the way that I'm actually trying to do it. So

30:21

if you can share those with each other, that

30:23

can give you guys more confidence to initiate

30:25

because you know that your partner's gonna be excited

30:27

and it just gives you specific ways to

30:29

do

30:30

it. They're gonna be little more exciting than

30:32

wanna do. It. And if that sounds complicated,

30:34

because I can totally understand how it's hard to

30:36

think back, like, through the entire history of your

30:38

relationship and and pull out couple

30:41

of those really exciting times. So if you're not

30:43

immediately thinking of something, I think

30:45

the initiation styles in

30:47

the book are valuable because you

30:49

can you can read through them, you know, each

30:52

you and your partner can each find, okay.

30:54

Like, I really identify with this one or, you

30:56

know, both of these I really identify

30:58

with and that's gonna be able to give your

31:00

partner the information of, oh, okay,

31:02

this is what you like. Because the reality

31:04

is when we don't know, what it is

31:07

that really works for our partner, you know,

31:09

we we see the world through our own eyes. We kind

31:11

of operate the way we think that I

31:13

assume, oh, vanessa would like to be initiated

31:15

with the way that I would like to be initiated.

31:17

Yeah. That's a totally normal thing

31:19

to do until you've had that conversation

31:22

and you can

31:22

understand. You're just like the love languages. You

31:24

know, oh, okay. You know, she

31:27

she wants compliments, you know,

31:29

she doesn't want physical touch or whatever

31:31

the case is. Mhmm. No. Totally makes

31:33

sense. Okay. If you are

31:35

listening right now and you're

31:39

struggling to turn your partner

31:41

down without hurting their feelings. What

31:44

is what is something that you can give as a tip

31:46

or a trick for the

31:48

turndown, but in a way that doesn't

31:51

demoralize.

31:52

This is something we get into in the book as well

31:54

because it's so important for couples to learn

31:56

how to do this because there is a potential for

31:58

it to feel hurtful. And

32:00

if you are the person who's always initiating,

32:02

you're always getting turned down. Of course, that's

32:04

gonna start to feel really vulnerable, and you're not

32:07

gonna wanna continue doing it. So

32:09

if your partner's initiating sex with you,

32:11

you're just not in the mood, the best

32:13

thing to do is give them a specific reason

32:16

but tie it into your

32:19

ability to show up in the

32:21

way that you would want to during sex.

32:23

So everybody's had had the excuse

32:25

of, like, oh, I have a headache. That doesn't feel

32:28

very, like, authentic. Right? Like,

32:30

you're like, okay. Yeah. Sure. You have a headache. But

32:32

if I let's say, Xandr initiates with me,

32:34

I'm not in the moon. I tell him, you

32:36

know, my stomach is just

32:39

killing me right now. I have a really bad stomach

32:41

ache, and I appreciate that you

32:43

wanna be intimate. I wanna be intimate

32:45

with you, but I'm just afraid that I'm gonna be

32:47

paying so much attention to my stomach. I'm not

32:49

gonna be able to be present in the moment

32:51

with you and connected with you and enjoy

32:53

it the way that we usually do. So that,

32:56

you know, even just that little bit of a tweak

32:58

makes it clear to him that I'm turning

33:00

down sex in this moment

33:02

for this

33:03

reason. But I'm not turning down

33:05

you as a person. And then

33:07

for for out of bonus points, if

33:10

you have something else that you

33:12

are up for that you can offer in that moment,

33:14

that can be a really nice thing to do where

33:16

it's like, okay. So I'm I'm not up

33:18

for, you know, I'm not up for sex

33:20

or for intercourse or whatever. How

33:23

about we lie on the couch and cuddle

33:25

for a couple both minutes, you know, like my stomach

33:27

hurts, but I, you know, I I'm up for that.

33:29

Something like that because very often, when

33:31

we just say no, that kind of

33:33

severs the connection. You know, I I'm feeling

33:35

vulnerable because I just initiated.

33:38

She said no. And then we feel that

33:40

awkwardness and we kind of pull apart. Okay.

33:43

I guess we're not on the same page. I guess we're doing

33:45

something different. So if you're able to

33:47

pivot to something else that's gonna

33:49

be emotionally connecting, that's

33:51

that's a really nice Olive branch and it's a

33:53

way for you to to end up feeling closer,

33:56

you know, after the experience rather than

33:58

you know, oh, a no. Just me every time

34:00

we say

34:01

no, it just means that we disconnect. Oh,

34:04

so good. I mean, here's the thing.

34:06

I think the are times when someone wants to say

34:08

no and then it's like feeling almost guilty

34:10

for having said no a a certain

34:12

number of times and just know I mean,

34:14

for myself, I just know this, if there isn't,

34:17

like, an interest in coming

34:19

into a sexual moments

34:21

with all of this excitement and all

34:24

of the I'm not interested in the

34:26

oh, well, I'll, you know, break you off a

34:28

piece to try and, you know,

34:30

keep you happy because that doesn't it doesn't

34:32

feel as

34:33

satisfying. It's not the thing that people, I think,

34:35

you're hoping for or or looking for,

34:37

being

34:38

able

34:38

to see no it's a really good point.

34:40

And I think that sorry to cut you off. I have

34:42

to jump in on this because I think this is a really

34:44

crucial misunderstanding that a lot of

34:46

women in relationships with men have.

34:48

A lot of women will say, oh, I'll

34:50

just throw them a bone, you know, fine.

34:53

I'll just do it for him. But if you're

34:55

as a woman, if you're having sex out of a

34:57

sense of obligation if you're forcing

34:59

yourself to do it. It's not gonna be an

35:01

enjoyable experience for you

35:03

and that is going to erode your

35:05

sex drive even further. Because

35:07

why would you crave something that's an unenjoyable

35:10

obligation type of

35:11

experience? Man,

35:12

it's not gonna be enjoyable for your partner

35:14

because your partner can use a partner.

35:16

Yeah. Like, And I'm sorry, but there's no

35:19

maybe somebody wants that, but I don't want no.

35:21

I don't think

35:22

that's, like, the thing that you want. Yeah.

35:24

You can tell. Right? When your partner's just, like,

35:26

lying there, letting you do your thing, and

35:28

like men don't like that. So I want women

35:31

to understand that because a woman

35:33

should be able to say no, she should be able to

35:35

say no without guilt. But forcing

35:37

yourself to say yes. It's not

35:39

helping anybody. That's not what men

35:41

want.

35:42

Yeah. Alright. You say that there are

35:44

eight golden rules that are gonna set up all of

35:46

your conversations for

35:47

success, can you

35:49

take us through the eight golden rules?

35:53

Again, that's Yeah. Well, we we can go

35:55

through a couple of them. We won't we won't ping

35:57

you with going through all eight of them. But one of

35:59

my favorite ones One

36:02

of my favorite ones is using I

36:04

Language, talking about your own experience.

36:07

So this is a trick that you'll pick up in any

36:09

psychology 101 class Your

36:11

therapist will always teach it to you because

36:13

it's such a good one that especially

36:15

when it comes to sex. If we

36:18

talk about our partner. If I come

36:20

in hot Alexander and I say, you never

36:22

initiate sex and you never kissed

36:24

me anymore and why don't you ever seem

36:26

to want me he's instantly

36:28

gonna be on the defensive. Right? I mean,

36:30

who wouldn't? It's understandable. But

36:33

when we can speak to our own experiences,

36:35

it helps soften the moment.

36:38

It helps our conversations have a

36:40

better chance of being successful, and

36:42

it also forces you to get

36:45

clear on what it is that you

36:46

want. So if I'm

36:47

just telling him, you never initiate.

36:50

Okay. But what is it that I want? Do

36:52

I want him to initiate more often? Do

36:55

I maybe want him to say yes when

36:57

I initiate more often? Do I want him to

36:59

initiate in certain sort of way? Do

37:01

I want us to be having more sex? Like,

37:03

there's so many different wants that could be

37:05

behind that

37:06

accusation. So using that kind of

37:08

language makes you get in touch with it.

37:10

And you just queued me up for really for

37:12

the sec for another one, which is perfect,

37:15

which is we we like to

37:17

say, stop using the words

37:19

always and never because

37:21

those those just shift the conversation

37:24

into a logistic single conversation

37:27

or an argument because, like, if vanessa

37:29

just said, oh, you never initiate with

37:31

me, then what happens in my mind

37:33

is I immediately I

37:35

I forget about any of the possible

37:38

emotion or the need or,

37:40

you know, the ask behind that, and I just

37:42

go into defense. I go She

37:44

said, I never initiate. When was

37:46

the last time I initiated? Oh,

37:49

I initiated two weeks ago.

37:52

Boom. I'm right. You're wrong. So

37:54

you immediately, you know, turn it into this

37:56

black and white thing and you just

37:58

kinda sweep aside whatever

38:00

emotional need was there and

38:02

you shut down the

38:03

conversation. So that's another huge

38:05

one is we like to say never use

38:07

never an always. Never use never

38:09

and always.

38:12

That one question I asked a while back, there was,

38:14

like, nine parts to it. We forgot to get

38:16

to one part, and I wanna come back to it. Oh, uh-huh.

38:18

The libido part. K? So

38:20

if if someone who's listening, is

38:23

struggling to feel excited about

38:26

sex. And they're like legit interested

38:28

in trying to jump start libido so that they

38:30

can get back in the game. Are there

38:33

things that they can do that might

38:35

activate libido in a way that doesn't

38:37

exist

38:37

today? This ties in really well with what we

38:39

were just talking about. In the book, we detail

38:42

the connection between our enjoyment

38:45

of sex and our desire for

38:47

it. And this is something that a lot of us just

38:49

don't put together until we hear it laid

38:51

out that way. But if sex

38:53

is not an enjoyable experience for you,

38:55

like, for example, you're one of those women who's

38:57

forcing yourself to say

38:58

yes, throw in the bone, just going along. Yeah.

39:01

I was gonna say, these two things go so well together.

39:03

Yeah. Your libido is just

39:05

going to tank. So oftentimes,

39:08

when we are talking to couples who have mismatched

39:10

libidos, we discover that it's actually more

39:12

about mismatched levels of enjoyment

39:15

during sex than it is a about the libido.

39:18

And especially for male, female couples,

39:20

one of the biggest culprits in the mismatch

39:22

of enjoyment is

39:24

that a lot of us women aren't getting

39:27

stimulation of the most sensitive

39:29

part of our body, which is the clearest.

39:31

So it's kind of like we're having sex It'd

39:33

be like asking a man, do you enjoy

39:35

having sex when you have zero contact

39:38

with your

39:38

penis? Like, I think most men are

39:40

gonna I know. Yeah. Yeah. Or it's like, you

39:42

know, maybe I'll get kinda turned on

39:44

and maybe, like, ready to go and

39:47

then that excitement is gonna

39:49

fade.

39:51

So more collateral stimulation is

39:53

the key to more enjoyment, which

39:55

can lead to a more

39:57

desire. I think

39:58

another thing that I would say about

40:00

about libido or firing up your libido?

40:03

Is that I think we very

40:05

often misunderstand the way

40:07

that libido works because we see

40:09

it portrayed in a single way,

40:11

you know, in the fairytale on TV and in

40:14

the movies, which is what we refer

40:16

to as spontaneous libido or spontaneous

40:18

sex strive, which is where the idea

40:21

for sex just comes out of nowhere. We think

40:23

about it randomly throughout the day and

40:25

we think about it and we go immediately go,

40:27

oh, that sounds good. That's something that

40:29

that I might wanna do. And then, you know,

40:31

maybe if our partner is around, then maybe

40:33

we go and try to initiate sex.

40:35

But the reality is there is a second

40:38

type of sex drive that many

40:41

people that many people have.

40:43

Yeah. And and also, yeah, a majority of

40:45

women have this sex drive type, which

40:47

is called responsive sex drive.

40:50

And so with responsive sex drive,

40:52

the idea for sex doesn't sound good

40:54

until you've already started

40:56

having some stimulation or maybe even

40:58

in the middle or at the end of sex. So

41:00

we'll hear from a lot of women who say, like,

41:02

I don't really want sex. I don't find myself

41:04

wanting it very often, but then once I get

41:06

to the end of sex or I'm in the middle, I'm

41:09

like, this is awesome.

41:11

Why why don't I want this more?

41:13

Right? So so if we can understand

41:16

what type we are, that can help

41:18

reframe a bit. Because, you

41:21

know, if you're responsive, then it's

41:23

not like it's not like, oh, to have a higher

41:25

sex drive, I need to just be thinking about sacks

41:27

more randomly. Like, that's not gonna happen.

41:29

That's just not the way that you're wired. So

41:31

it's more of, okay, what are ways that I can,

41:34

you know, bring some more, you know, stimulation

41:36

of my body into play or be open

41:39

to more of them.

41:41

So let's say that

41:43

libido is working But

41:46

as much as partner

41:49

knows where Cliteris is, the

41:51

moves are always the same. Right?

41:53

Like, there's almost like a I already I know how

41:55

to get from point a to point b, and

41:57

you find yourself just in a little tiny bit

42:00

of a rut, there's

42:02

still orgasm, there's still pleasure,

42:05

there's still connection, but

42:07

you're using the same moves. Every single

42:09

time because you know those moves work. How

42:11

do you approach exploration or

42:14

try new things or mixing it up

42:16

or spicing it up and I

42:18

don't know. Like, tend to be an if an eight broke, don't fix

42:20

a kind of person, but I also know that, like,

42:23

nobody is gonna be super super

42:25

excited about doing the same thing over and over even

42:27

if there's still a good

42:28

outcome. How do you explore explore how

42:30

do you explore exploration? That's a weird

42:32

question.

42:32

Yeah. Very meta. Yeah.

42:35

We actually open up that chapter

42:37

with that conversation of me

42:39

detailing what sex can very

42:41

easily look like when Zana and I are just in

42:43

that, like, if any broke, don't fix it.

42:45

And was reading it to Xandr, and he's like, I feel

42:47

attacked. But

42:49

it's very easy when we're in long term relationships.

42:52

We find the things that work and like,

42:54

okay. Just keep doing the thing. And then

42:57

we're scripting out, you know, we know exactly

42:59

what's coming. We know all the moves. So it's

43:01

great to have reliable routine that

43:03

you know works. But trying

43:05

new things in the bedroom really is

43:07

the key to keeping your sex life feeling

43:09

exciting. Trying new things with your partner

43:11

outside of the bedroom too is has also

43:14

been shown to increase intimacy and those

43:16

feelings of excitement, those butterflies

43:18

that we all missed having from the beginning

43:20

stages of our relationship. So

43:23

the thing with trying new things though is

43:25

a lot of people hear that phrase and they get

43:27

really anxious because their brain immediately

43:30

leaps to the wildly kinky

43:32

stuff.

43:32

Of course. I knew you were gonna

43:34

say it. Yeah. It's like you gotta do all

43:36

the fifty shades of gray stuff and,

43:38

like, we're hanging from the rafters and all getting

43:41

this stuff is going on. So people get very self

43:43

conscious that feels like too big of a

43:45

leap. So the approach that we take in sex

43:47

talks is that even small

43:49

changes can make big

43:51

difference. So a great example is sex

43:53

positions. You don't have to be

43:55

hanging upside down on your head standing

43:57

up against them all or

43:58

anything. We we recommend against them. Yes.

44:01

But even something as simple as, like, changing

44:04

where your limbs are

44:06

changing where you're holding your weight

44:08

can actually make surprisingly big

44:10

difference. I mean, we've had experiences

44:13

ourselves of just making a little shift and you're

44:15

like, whoa. This feels completely different.

44:18

So start with those small changes

44:20

first. That'll give you the confidence to

44:22

keep going and trying bigger

44:23

things. This is a fun conversation. I

44:26

didn't expect that I would enjoyed

44:28

as much as I have or that I would

44:30

enjoy it in my house, but

44:32

I I really do appreciate it. Again,

44:35

the book is called sex talks. It came out

44:37

on Tuesday. It's available anywhere

44:39

that you wanna buy books. The subtitle

44:42

is five conversations that will transform

44:44

your love life sex is an important

44:46

part of a meaningful committed relationship.

44:49

I hope that if you are interested

44:52

in spicing up or resuscitating your sex life

44:54

that you will check it out, For people that don't

44:56

already know your work or interested in knowing

44:58

more about your work, Vanessa

45:00

Xander, where do you send people on the Internet? We

45:02

hang out a lot over on Instagram. You

45:04

can find us at Vanessa and Xandr.

45:06

We do daily stories there, and that was

45:09

really some of the inspiration for the books.

45:11

So many people would tell us watching your

45:13

stories made me feel more comfortable

45:15

with sex. Like my partner and I would watch together

45:18

and we get to talk about hey, what did you think

45:20

about what Vanessa said? Do you agree with Xandr?

45:22

So that's a great starting point too,

45:24

but you can catch us there. We

45:26

have all the information about the book. Is that

45:29

sex talksbook dot com. If

45:31

you order and and enter your

45:33

information on that page, We'll send you

45:35

a free workbook that goes along with the book.

45:37

And we also have a thirty dollar discount

45:40

towards our sex or connection challenges

45:42

that we're doing right now for Valentine's

45:44

Day. And

45:45

then, yeah, over at v m therapy

45:47

dot com is where you can find all the other

45:49

information on all the courses and guides

45:52

that we offer plus all kinds of

45:54

other fun information about us.

45:56

Fantastic. Alright. We'll put it in the show notes.

45:58

Make sure there's some links if if

46:00

you are listening to this on a device of any

46:03

kind, you should see it in the device

46:05

that you are on right now. Alright. With

46:07

the last question, each time,

46:09

I ask the guests if there is a

46:11

single thing that is on their hearts, in

46:13

their minds, in their soul that they believe that

46:16

the audience, is desperate in

46:18

need of. And it can be a quote. It

46:20

can be an inspirational thing. It could be an

46:22

expert at the book. It could be literally

46:24

anything. What do you think the audience

46:26

today needs to hear from the two

46:28

of you? I want the audience to

46:30

understand that whatever challenges

46:33

they might be having in their sex life

46:35

are very normal and common.

46:38

You know, we share so many personal stories

46:40

in the book of tough times that we

46:42

went through in our own sex life, mismatched

46:44

libidos, low libidos, performance

46:46

anxiety, orgasm problems, because

46:49

we really want people to understand that

46:51

it's okay to have challenges

46:53

come up. You're not broken. Nothing's wrong.

46:56

And these things are all overcomeable

46:59

with these kinds of conversations. So

47:01

I hope people feel like they're normal and

47:03

they're not alone and just feel

47:06

excited to have these conversations

47:08

and create that intimacy that they've always been

47:10

wanting. Yeah. I I hope people feel

47:12

excited to start talking

47:15

about sex, to talk about sex more

47:17

because not only is talking

47:19

about sex having these five conversations, going

47:22

to transform your love life. It's

47:25

having these type of conversations are

47:27

gonna make you feel more connected. You're gonna

47:29

feel like you have a stronger relationship. You're

47:31

just gonna be happier and more confident.

47:34

So it's not just about sex. You know, sex

47:36

is just an it's an integral part of relationships.

47:38

And talking about it is is a great

47:40

way to honor your entire relationship. Well,

47:43

Vanessa and Xandr, I appreciate you

47:46

guys. This is a really, really fun conversation.

47:48

Again, last time, book is called

47:50

sex talks, five conversations that will transform

47:52

your love life. And if

47:54

you enjoyed this episode or think that other

47:57

humans in your circle would benefit from listening

47:59

to it, please, share it in your socials,

48:02

tag Vanessa Zander and myself, and

48:05

spread the word because this is

48:07

something that is unnecessarily taboo

48:10

that will absolutely create

48:12

additional intimacy and connection in your relationship.

48:15

And, Frank, you deserve it, frankly.

48:17

So I hope that you will lean

48:19

into some of the uncomfortable, push

48:22

through it, and get to a place where it's just super

48:24

comfortable for you to have a conversation about sex with

48:26

your

48:26

partner. Xander and Vanessa, thank

48:28

you guys so much for being here. appreciate

48:30

Thanks for having us, Dave. It's been really

48:32

fun. I appreciate you sharing some of your embarrassing

48:35

stories. There's plenty of embarrassing

48:37

stories to go around. Trust me, we could do a

48:39

thousand episodes. We will not run out.

48:42

Alright. Yo. Between now and

48:44

next week's episodes, I hope you have a fantastic

48:47

week, and I hope that

48:49

you're encouraged to explore little

48:51

bit of your own sexuality so that you can

48:53

have a deeper, richer, more meaningful relationship

48:56

with the person you love between now and then.

48:58

Take care. And thanks for listening to the Rise Together

49:01

podcast. Well,

49:05

thank you for listening to another episode. I

49:07

appreciate you all being here so so much.

49:10

Before you go, just wanna make mention

49:12

of one thing that I am so excited

49:14

about. My daughter know it and I have put

49:16

together a delight an amazing,

49:19

a wonderful children's picture

49:21

book. It's based on the fun video series

49:23

that we've done, online CulteTime

49:25

with Noah. And it's called here's

49:27

to your dreams. It it comes out

49:29

on November eighth. And it's a

49:31

book that hopefully encourages children

49:34

to be brave, to believe in themselves,

49:36

to dream big. In this,

49:38

our first adventure, Noah has

49:40

this big dream of becoming a sea captain.

49:43

She realizes in pursuing this

49:45

dream that it's not all smooth sailing, she

49:47

doesn't know how to captain, doesn't have a

49:49

ship, doesn't know how to build one, and

49:52

that process of having to learn and

49:54

try and fail and get back up

49:56

teaches her that she has so much of

49:58

what she's always needed already inside of

50:00

her and that every time it didn't go

50:02

her way, get equipped her with some

50:05

some skills that allowed her to be

50:07

even stronger and more resilient and

50:09

believe more on herself on the other side.

50:11

Again, It's called Here's View Dreams.

50:13

It comes out on November eighth,

50:15

and you can get it. Anywhere books are

50:17

sold for more info, head to the link

50:19

in the show notes, or to here's

50:21

to your dreams dot com.