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Sleep Number stores or sleepnumber.com. Some

0:41

guy Nick Mason, some sort of secrets of

0:43

which we all to Fitzroy. Are we going

0:45

back on the road in the summer across

0:47

the Uk. We were gates all of June

0:50

so brace yourself was a cold is caught

0:52

the set the control. So what a brilliant

0:54

name Oh using could accomplish such a great

0:56

name for tall very of wonder I think

0:58

I'm looking at him right? But then I

1:00

did come up with then Mason sources a

1:02

huge in the father came up would oppose

1:04

them because you were inspired by would he

1:06

would means is you bow and I was

1:08

everywhere everywhere but other for that so join

1:11

Nick. Guide Li Harrys don't beacon and me

1:13

as we celebrate your years with the incredibly

1:15

second credible body of work? Isn't that the

1:17

early Pink Floyd your goes up to just

1:19

before Dots Are The Guys. I was nine

1:22

seventy letter were all the film soundtracks, all

1:24

the sit stuff stuff you've never heard southern

1:26

no one's a home run previously and causes

1:28

the big sort of her know what is

1:31

that? What would you call it? Magnum Opus?

1:33

The Oliver Magnum that you the I Never

1:35

Met Magnum. Busy with. An

1:37

alleyway. Tickets on sale now and you

1:39

can buy yours at my ticket. To

1:42

Code or Uk and Kilimanjaro

1:44

Live Presents Nick Mason Source

1:46

for the secrets, the settler

1:48

controls or allegory Hello Guy!

1:50

I've been terribly bitten by

1:52

midges. What have you? Rarely.

1:56

Why why would I do? was he.

2:00

Yeah, mid-ure and mid-who-else.

2:03

Midge's minder. No,

2:06

we have terrible midges down here on the south

2:08

bounds. Oh, it's a hard life,

2:10

isn't it, really? I'm in

2:13

central London, mate. I'm in

2:15

central London, let it be known. Dodging

2:17

midges down here, we're dodging other things, I tell

2:20

you. You know what,

2:23

because I've got something I just wanted to mention,

2:25

which is... No, go on. We

2:27

spoke about Pyromania the other day with

2:29

Joe, and what we didn't mention,

2:32

I forgot to mention, was that

2:34

John Congus worked on the album.

2:37

You know John Congus, don't you? I

2:39

know the name. I can't think of it. You know, Tokoloshi

2:41

Man? He's going to step on you again? You

2:43

don't know those songs? Oh, my God.

2:45

Oh, wow, right. You know,

2:47

early 70s... Early 70s kind of...

2:51

Well, it's not Northern Soul, is it? No,

2:53

no, no, no. It's kind of like a weird Afro

2:55

beat, right? The early Afro, I guess. And,

2:58

I mean, listen, maybe it's because I'm

3:01

slightly older than you, just slightly, that

3:03

I bought those singles. They were big.

3:06

Yeah, no, I've got to say, that completely escaped me. I

3:08

was probably still buying Monster Mash at that point.

3:10

So John Congus, Tokoloshi Man, I'm going to step

3:13

on you again. He's going to step

3:15

on you again. Is that the one that

3:17

the Happy Mondays read? That's exactly it, yeah.

3:19

That one. Which is funny,

3:21

isn't it? Because that's basically, that's the song that

3:23

everyone knows of the Happy Mondays, and it's not

3:25

theirs. But the funny thing

3:27

is, as well, Joe recorded,

3:30

he's going to step on you again, for...

3:33

You know he was talking about they

3:35

did their Pin-Ups album. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think

3:37

it was called Yeah or Yes or something, maybe

3:39

Yeah, where they did all their

3:41

favourite tunes from the early 70s, and

3:43

that was one that they covered. But

3:46

John Congus actually worked on

3:48

Pyromania as the

3:51

Fairlight controller. Oh, so it

3:53

wasn't one of those, but he just happened to be

3:55

someone who was hard to do a gig. It wasn't,

3:57

like, you know, that thing that directors do, where they... they

4:00

get sort of the cult directors of their

4:02

favorite films and have a tiny little walk

4:04

off. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

4:06

No, he didn't play Kongers. Kongers, yeah. You know,

4:08

on it. He didn't step on

4:10

Joe. The

4:14

reason that he was on

4:17

the record, apparently, because I

4:19

texted Joe and asked him how he ended up

4:21

on the record, because, you know, Joe would have

4:23

been a slight sort of fan of his when

4:25

he was on it. Yeah, I'd dare say. It

4:27

was a South African connection because Matlana,

4:31

Matlana is African and he got his

4:33

mate in John Kongers, who

4:35

is at that point a fairlight controller in the

4:37

80s, which is pretty much ahead of the game.

4:40

This is where the connection is strange, right? Because

4:43

if you look in the Guinness Book of Records for

4:47

what was the first record

4:49

with a sample on, it's

4:52

John Kongers' He'll Step on You Again. He's not,

4:54

I can never get this title right, can I?

4:57

He's going to step on you again. He's going to step on you.

5:01

That's it. What's the sample? What did he

5:03

sample with what? What is 1971? How

5:06

can there be a sample? It's not a sample. What

5:09

it is, the McWherson's got it wrong. You

5:13

tell him. And

5:15

Roy Castle. There's

5:19

an African drum loop, tape

5:21

loop on that record. So

5:25

that to me doesn't make it the

5:27

first sample on a record. No, it doesn't

5:29

because I would have thought the Radiophonic Workshop

5:31

would have something to say about that. Easier

5:34

than that. Melatrons. Melatrons

5:36

are tapes, aren't they? They're tape loops. Yeah,

5:38

but it's an instrument, isn't it? I know what

5:40

you mean. They're a sample, but they're playing it.

5:43

It's not off another piece of music.

5:46

I mean, you're opening a potentially incredibly

5:48

dull can of worms. It

5:52

was just something I, you know, obviously I need

5:54

to get a life, but I'd gone down this

5:56

little avenue. I was kind of worried when you

5:59

started doing that. It was like

6:01

we were going from being rock

6:03

on to James Burke's Connections. Anything

6:08

to say? Nothing. Anything to add

6:10

to that? I've got nothing to add to that. I'm

6:13

beaten. Completely beaten. Yeah, go on. Brian

6:16

Orga, right? Yes, Brian Orga.

6:19

And I'm

6:22

sure this has come up before, but it's about

6:24

how us, the couple of years between us

6:27

doesn't mean anything here, which is that

6:29

when we got into music, and you

6:31

just read every book there is, because

6:34

everything, there was all that history we had

6:36

to catch up with the

6:38

history that we learned from the Battle of

6:40

Hastings and the Spinning Jenny and the repeal

6:42

of the Corn Laws. There's this

6:44

little period of history that you and I will

6:46

have read about more than anything else a

6:48

million times. Gromowski. Gromowski.

6:51

It's the Eel Pie

6:53

Island. Yeah, exactly. It's

6:56

all that. It's right at

6:58

the heart of it, every

7:00

fucking time, Steampunkit. You're

7:03

right. They're there, aren't they?

7:05

Absolutely ground zero. And it's like they

7:07

have a significant, for some of the

7:09

two things that have just come up,

7:11

all that seem to be like lynch

7:13

pins, well, there's Alexis Corner, Steampunkit and

7:16

the Yardbirds. And that's it. Yeah. And

7:18

to certainly say, Long John Baldry is a... Long

7:20

John Baldry, well, he's in Steampunkit. He's died it.

7:23

And Alexis Corner's... Alexis Corner's,

7:25

but he was the sort of fulcrum of

7:28

the whole blues thing, wasn't he? Yeah, but

7:30

he... And then you got the trad thing,

7:32

the old Cyril Davis, Chris Barber.

7:34

Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, we're going deep

7:36

today. But he's interesting, Brian, isn't

7:38

he? Because, I mean, for a

7:41

start, he played on For Your Love for

7:43

the Yardbirds. But way before then, this was

7:46

a guy older than

7:48

most. He's 84 now. So he

7:50

sneaked in jazz as opposed to

7:52

blues, but definitely went into

7:54

blues and kind of made the

7:56

Hammond his own instrument. You know,

7:59

Georgie Faim has obviously... playing the Hammond but in fact

8:01

I think it's a part of his story where

8:03

George and I save it, save

8:05

it, save it. But he's kind of made the Hammond

8:07

a rock instrument didn't he? Because I'm

8:09

not sure. No I think you're

8:11

right I think he might have been, no

8:13

because it was, I know he was... Well

8:15

Keith Emerson was obviously doing it later you

8:17

know. Later well I've got to, I

8:20

think that there might have been, if it was either

8:22

a symbiosis or he kind of went from, or Keith

8:24

got it from him. I think

8:26

things were distorted because they were maybe turned up

8:28

a bit too much and it's not actually the

8:31

sound they were looking for. But they were blues

8:33

jazzers weren't they those guys? Yeah Jimmy Smith isn't

8:35

it? Jimmy Smith and Jimmy McGuff yeah they're big

8:37

influence on him I think. And lots of Jimmies,

8:39

Hammond Jimmies. Yeah yeah Hammond Jimmies. But you

8:41

know he went on as well. Hammond Jimmies!

8:43

So he had steam packing, let's remember who

8:45

was in steam packing,

8:48

not just Lon John Brawley, it was Rod Stewart

8:50

so we're going to be talking about that as

8:52

well. And Judy Driscoll but of course they, what's

8:55

extraordinary and I think today might

8:58

have been the first time I ever heard

9:00

steam packet because I don't think they never

9:03

recorded or they did record and there was

9:05

sort of contractual fuck-ups or whatever. So that's

9:07

why, so there's this sort

9:09

of you know mythical band who

9:12

sort of left no trace. Three

9:14

vocalists as well. But

9:16

they're not, and him but then no one ever says

9:18

who else is in the band. And

9:20

then Rod went off and obviously did

9:22

what he did and Lon

9:25

John Baldry left and formed,

9:27

actually. Lon John Baldry. No

9:30

I think maybe, I

9:33

think Brian left and took Julie. Ah there you are.

9:35

Well after that's more. Yeah because then I got on

9:37

and had a very good, we need to be saving

9:39

this guy.

9:43

We need to be saving it. But I do want to say

9:45

one thing about Lon John Baldry which I found out. He

9:48

was tiny, he was actually tiny. For

9:50

a six foot seven man he was incredibly short.

9:55

Then say whether you could be incredibly short.

9:57

Yeah yeah. He

10:00

ended up years later, years later obviously

10:03

when he wasn't making records, as a

10:05

voice in Sonic the

10:07

Hedgehog cartoon. Did

10:10

you know that? I did not know that. I

10:13

think that's a great one. I'd love to end up

10:15

as a voice on Sonic the Hedgehog. Well

10:17

play your cards right son. Anyway,

10:20

he goes off and makes amazing jazz

10:23

records, amazing jazz rock records. He

10:25

supports Led Zeppman, he supports the Rolling Stones

10:28

and some of the stuff on Brian

10:30

Auger's Oblivion Express is incredible. Oh we

10:32

love that. I'm so glad I've been

10:35

listening to it. Not to mention playing

10:38

Jimi Hendrix's first ever London gig.

10:40

Oh and Keith as well, Keith

10:42

Murns. Keith got up and

10:44

played with him. Hey, save it, save it. Let's

10:46

get him on. Welcome to the Rock on

10:49

Ters. Okay

10:51

guys, I'm ready. You know this thing

10:53

about the 10,000 hours of experience? When

10:55

we recorded Arnold's Lane, we'd done about

10:57

50 hours. I love the

11:00

fact he's dancing to it naked, like

11:02

it's so hedonistic, it's so liberating. How

11:04

brilliant. We knew the moment that the

11:06

five of us were in a room, like the

11:08

first three chords, like oh, we finally all found

11:10

each other. I'm in a band now. It's called

11:12

Roxy Music. He started playing that as his main

11:14

guitar, so it was his main guitar, so I

11:17

just said you can have it. Thank

11:19

you guys for still being around, still

11:21

making music, still being into it, and

11:24

doing this podcast. It's fabulous. Everyone

11:26

in the band was completely

11:29

disengaged from their partners while

11:31

we made rumors. It's

11:33

a big tune for sure. I actually wrote

11:35

that originally for Tina Turner. The Rock

11:37

on Ters podcast with Gary Kemp and

11:40

Guy Pratt. Keep high rockin'!

11:43

Thank you for doing the Rock on Ters. We'll be looking forward to

11:45

this. Oh man, my pleasure.

11:49

We were saying, Brian, what's great is that

11:51

you are Right

11:53

at the absolute fulcrum of that

11:55

kind of most important formative bit

11:57

of everything that British music becomes.

11:59

the time and about. especially steam

12:02

hacker a Just So and poke.

12:05

A fundamental fundamental.

12:07

Fundamentalist. It was. It was

12:09

funny because of. I. Started

12:11

to them. You. Know I

12:14

Rahman's jazz piano piano player.

12:16

As much as others I asked what

12:18

your self taught just compatible you. Know

12:20

and wish I was. Actually I was

12:23

out of impressive number. From

12:25

well the thing was, So

12:28

I was born and thirty nine.

12:30

So the first things I remember

12:32

as being carried to the air

12:34

raid shelter every night because some

12:36

they were bombing the hell out

12:38

of us is that time. you

12:40

know, well as you're in London

12:42

right were nuns and when I

12:44

will. yeah I was a little

12:46

less. I'm a rose. Oh my

12:48

god you're kidding. Ones that nothing

12:51

Hill? yes and dumb. you know

12:53

these the same went on on

12:55

on on on. Said nobody explained

12:57

anything to me anyway. saw there

12:59

was a serious a loss through

13:01

lights in the sky, on saucepans

13:03

and stuff. Call Yeah you know

13:05

my motives are quick to get

13:07

in there. we evacuated. I was

13:09

actually because this is this is

13:11

really great Actually was as the

13:13

government had decided. That. Other certain

13:15

point didn't The bombing was his phone.

13:17

On and on and on and. Ah,

13:20

they decided they would take the kids

13:22

and take them out of the range

13:25

of the of the bombers. So.

13:27

I got taken to. Ah,

13:29

Place called badly yourself which which

13:31

was yeah that's what Robinson lawyers

13:34

from exile in the north side

13:36

that i ruin a story that

13:38

no no no no funds I'm

13:40

so i don't sense of too

13:42

badly and don't I was already

13:44

playing a piano because my dad

13:46

has done or a piano law

13:48

which was the thing that you

13:50

put reckon a year like a

13:52

role of of paper in. and

13:55

parties would move the out on i

13:57

would stand on the pedals and i

13:59

was i pedaling away like

14:01

some demented cyclist and

14:05

those he I don't know where he's got

14:07

all this stuff from because we had all

14:09

the operas in just piano form and stuff

14:12

like moonlight sonata and concertos and

14:15

you know we had poppini I

14:19

loved him you could

14:21

see what you could see what

14:23

the piano keys you could see

14:25

or no yeah so one of

14:27

my one of my favorite concerti

14:29

was the William Tell Overture and

14:34

I had you know and I watched the

14:36

the notes play and it went did it in did

14:38

it in did it in did it in did it

14:40

in did it in it well I

14:44

could do that but

14:47

he's doing it down there but

14:50

but this is the same up here it's just

14:52

higher up you know and so

14:54

and okay let's try then oh

14:57

my god do you reek you were doing the octave

15:03

you do the octave I what it what

15:05

it meant to me is that I could

15:07

actually learn bits and pieces from all this

15:09

stuff and I play it

15:12

along you know that's amazing um you know what's

15:14

funny is when you do it like that I was hearing that

15:17

tune in my head but I was hearing

15:19

it as a sort of Hank Marvin Dwayne

15:21

Eddie guitar de la la la la la

15:23

la la la la yeah of

15:25

course all this stuff you know the Mozart

15:28

the Jupiter you know

15:30

later on I played in

15:32

Mannheim and there was there

15:35

was a thing that term that

15:38

the not only Mozart

15:40

but Beethoven and all those kind of

15:43

guys were were using

15:45

to start a symphony to kind of wake

15:48

everybody up you know

15:50

and it was called the Mannheim

15:52

steamroller believe it or not and there was

15:55

a big opening fool you

15:57

know yeah full concert And

16:00

that one for the jubilee

16:02

I loved it because it

16:05

went BANG! Duh-wah! Duh-wop! And

16:08

then Duh-dah! Duh-dee-dah! BANG!

16:11

Duh-wah! Duh-wah! Duh-dah!

16:14

BANG! Duh-bah! BING!

16:17

Duh-dah! BANG! DUN-DUN-DUN!

16:20

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!

16:24

BANG! BANG! BANG!

16:27

BANG! BANG! He's

16:29

setting up geography it's a corner response this

16:32

loud one is right by you and then

16:34

there's quite one which is way off in

16:36

the distance. Or he's

16:39

stumbled into I think all

16:41

right the manheim steam

16:44

rod and then I

16:46

think we'd better put something in for the birds

16:48

you know something in

16:50

for the ladies. I said BANG!

16:52

Duh-dah! Duh-dah! Duh-dah!

16:55

Wake up and listen. So

16:58

all of that goes into rock music in the end especially

17:00

the kind of music that you are going to play. Of

17:03

course. Because more to the point why I

17:05

can't believe is that there actually hasn't been

17:07

a band called Manheim Steamroller. But there was.

17:11

You sure? No. But there

17:13

was Brian August's steam packet though. Well

17:15

the steam packet yeah because that's from

17:17

the packet steamers though isn't it? We

17:19

didn't know what. Oh

17:21

yeah that's right and if you

17:23

were somebody who played with great

17:26

gusto at the time. You

17:28

know you were called a steamer.

17:31

So I said well who do we get

17:33

out of a band? In the band. Well I mean

17:35

better have him because he's just a steamer. And

17:38

it got to the point where I went whoa. And I

17:40

saw this picture of a

17:43

steam packet actually coming

17:45

down the Mississippi. There

17:48

it is you see it's all got the

17:50

thing it's got blues in it it's got

17:52

water in it. You know. It's

17:55

got all that kind of stuff. Is

17:57

that something you'd put in an advert in the back? of

18:00

a melody maker, isn't it? One said musician

18:02

must be a steamer. Yes,

18:04

exactly. Did this piano stay with you

18:07

through the war? Well this was

18:09

the thing, when we got, when

18:11

the bomb dropped I

18:13

was talking to my mum who was lying

18:16

and thank God she was in a

18:18

kind of L-shaped part of the room,

18:21

shielded from everything and suddenly

18:25

she must have heard this thing go. It was

18:27

a V1, you know, a

18:30

doodle bug, kind of flew

18:32

and then everybody kind of rushed

18:35

into doorways and stuff like that, you know,

18:37

but anyway my mum suddenly grabbed me and

18:39

said, right, get under the table and

18:41

threw me under the living room table and

18:44

there was this huge explosion

18:47

which took out the whole block actually

18:50

of St Anne's village of

18:53

which we were apart at the time and

18:57

I sat there under the table watching

18:59

all sorts of like, oh this is

19:01

nice, I saw like snow

19:04

coming down. Of course it

19:06

wasn't snow, it was the

19:08

ceiling and the walls. And

19:13

so again I can't remember any

19:15

kind of fear, those,

19:18

you know, I looked at

19:20

it and the fear was because my dad

19:22

had a hell of a tempo, if you

19:24

didn't keep yourself, you know, in line and

19:26

so I'm sitting under the table watching all

19:28

this stuff come down, I'm watching

19:31

the carpet darken and thinking

19:34

to myself, someone's really gonna

19:36

be in trouble now. That's

19:43

actually sweet, yeah. Yeah but I mean because this

19:45

is this is a kind of a difference with

19:47

you isn't Brian, is that because you seem to

19:50

be you're just a few years older

19:52

than all those sort of

19:54

60s cats so it's kind of they were all

19:57

born at the end but you actually live through.

20:00

the thing which is you know yeah i

20:02

i think that was uh you

20:05

know the strange thing was this thing

20:07

was going off every night man we

20:09

were you know my dad

20:11

used to my dad was in the

20:13

st john's ambulance brigade so

20:16

when the raid started he

20:18

would say to

20:20

my mom i'll be i'll be back you

20:23

know in the morning and he would go

20:25

out in the middle of it all he dug

20:27

people out of houses that were belonged to

20:29

pitts and uh had a did

20:32

a lot of first aid for people and stuff like

20:34

that and so none of

20:36

that kind of like uh was something

20:38

that in favor of any

20:40

sort of fear in me but did

20:42

it was just it was just all

20:45

going around going on around did the

20:47

piano we get destroyed in that bomb

20:49

well the piano when i looked at

20:51

it the piano was the most amazing

20:53

thing because the finish on

20:55

the piano was it was a black

20:57

piano i couldn't read at the time

20:59

but by the time i could read it said

21:02

castner i think either

21:05

in bremen or somewhere up

21:07

there you know ironically and

21:10

beautiful piano beautiful you

21:12

know it played uh when

21:15

it was tuned up my dad kept it going

21:17

and any of you and and uh it

21:20

was just amazing man i i played on that

21:22

you know and i i loved it i just

21:24

wanted to play that and mess

21:26

about every day but it

21:28

never got destroyed in the boat it never got

21:30

destroyed and i i've often thought since i

21:33

thought i wonder whether the guys in

21:35

pina munda you know who

21:37

aimed all these things at us said

21:39

listen watch that you know 339 land

21:41

my road you know

21:43

castner you know take it

21:46

easy somehow or other bit it

21:50

was you know i mean you're absolutely

21:53

loony so um anyway when

21:55

i was evacuated away i was

21:58

put in a class of 50 and

22:01

the late little girls who

22:03

we were all taught together and they actually

22:05

taught me to read. Do you mean read

22:08

read or read music? No no

22:10

and read. Alright. Just read probably. No I

22:12

never learned to read music because I was

22:15

playing at the time I think

22:17

I was in the mood. And

22:23

I thought I was really good because I went bad

22:25

doo doo doo doo doo doo da. Oh

22:28

you could do it yeah yeah. Yeah. I'm

22:31

returning into a jazzer. I

22:33

am well I suppose I am. The

22:35

thing is that my brother had a collection

22:38

of American jazz records. This

22:42

is the older brother I'm taking. Yeah I heard Satchmo.

22:45

That really got me going the

22:47

swing of it all. And

22:49

then he had this big radio

22:53

that was probably made up in

22:56

the 30s you know. And

22:59

so at one point he says

23:02

here bro you can have this. And I

23:04

said what that? Yeah.

23:07

Because I'm gonna get an I'm gonna get a

23:09

modern radio you know that can

23:11

I sit on the table. But you can

23:13

have that. So I took it up to my bedroom stashed

23:16

it next to the window and got

23:18

a piece of wire and made an

23:20

antenna that hung outside. And

23:23

then being happy to be really quiet because I

23:25

didn't want to wake my mum and dad up

23:27

otherwise. So basically

23:32

I'm dialing with this great big

23:34

knob around you know about one

23:36

o'clock in the morning and all of a sudden this

23:38

voice says this is the American

23:41

Forces Network in Germany. You know

23:43

we present the jazz

23:46

hour. I'm like oh my god.

23:50

So they presented

23:52

a record by a guy called Oscar Peterson.

23:54

Yes. Yeah. And I thought I was doing

23:56

well going but I do do do do

23:58

do do do do. I

24:01

must have been about four at the time or something like

24:03

that and when I heard Oscar play

24:05

I was stunned into silence Thought

24:08

about it all and went, you know, I

24:11

want to play like that, but it's gonna take

24:13

it's gonna take a long time Remember

24:17

Oscar Peterson had a BBC two

24:19

weekly show when we were kids

24:21

didn't he was on TV every

24:23

time Amazing.

24:25

Yeah, and there was another lady Her

24:29

name was Winifred Atwell. Oh, yeah,

24:31

Winifred was

24:34

brought up was was I think from Jamaica

24:36

or somewhere like that and Was

24:39

that absolute sweet of a lady I could

24:42

play the hell out of the piano and

24:44

I imagine that at

24:46

that particular time her

24:48

her color and Her

24:51

you know, yeah background wasn't

24:54

something that somebody was there I said

24:57

Let's put this lady in front of her The

25:01

BBC home service or

25:03

something like that, you know, so she

25:06

turned to rags

25:08

playing His rack

25:11

bad at eating

25:13

doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo I

25:15

was like aghast. Oh my god

25:17

and She played

25:19

a lot of other stuff, you know boogie rags

25:21

and god knows what and it

25:24

was just wonderful So the AFN was your

25:26

education really it was your school. Yeah,

25:28

because I won a scholarship to Sloan

25:31

Grammar School. The first thing

25:33

I noticed is they had this best time

25:36

piano and somebody would come out and bang

25:38

out Oh And

25:48

there was a thing that the headmaster

25:51

Guy Boaz who's a

25:54

master of arts from Oxford He

25:57

wrote a book called the the Shakespearean

25:59

actor which I think they still use.

26:01

Oh yeah, I think that's a guy Boaz.

26:04

And he was one of those eccentric

26:07

Englishmen. I was dying to

26:09

get my hands on this piano and instead of

26:12

the five Friday solos he'd step forward and

26:14

say, hello, it is five scovers of 3B

26:17

and he's been

26:23

playing a piece. Anyway, so

26:25

I was steaming into

26:27

this boogie and I'd waited behind to

26:30

make sure that everybody had gone home.

26:32

And round the corner comes the

26:39

headmaster in his mortarboard and

26:41

gown and everything and says,

26:44

order! What the devil

26:46

do you think you're doing? Oh

26:50

God, I'm going to get expelled now. So

26:53

I said, well sir, I'm playing

26:57

the piano and he said, yes, I can

26:59

see that. I

27:01

said, but what is that you're playing? So I

27:04

said, well, actually it's called the

27:06

Cross Hands Boogie, sir. That cross

27:09

hands boogie? Who wrote that

27:11

then? I said, I

27:13

think it was Winifred Atwell. Anyway,

27:16

I thought this is a here

27:18

it comes, you know, it's going to kick me out

27:20

now. I said, I said, you

27:23

know, this piano I've waited for two years,

27:25

it's the most beautiful piano I've ever seen

27:27

actually. It makes me, and when I played

27:29

it made me like feel

27:32

like it was so good. And

27:35

he said, I see. This

27:37

sort of music

27:40

from the Jim Mills

27:42

of America. Oh, it's

27:46

lovely. Well,

27:49

kind of it's jazz. It's

27:51

American jazz. So, who

27:54

wrote that? Well, fortunately

27:56

for us, Winifred Atwell Wrote

27:58

it and was able to play it. Right!

28:00

it had that she's A

28:02

she's from our Jamaica season.

28:05

Lives over. Here is how. Is

28:08

it is a popular. For.

28:10

For for for all this is

28:12

our crazy the English all future

28:14

focused paul tell us when I

28:17

say all very often as I

28:19

think as it's it's a number

28:21

one actually on the on the

28:23

yeah music charts. Missed.

28:25

Costs. One set them.

28:28

For. Suppose I have tried to explain

28:31

it and he says some drill hole

28:33

that would you like to say if

28:35

right as as a possible I said

28:37

of course I would. Yeah good then.

28:40

I. Said that's. What? What? Was that a Korean?

28:43

A sense cause they cross hands

28:45

of movies at the cross hands

28:48

but yeah. So

28:50

did you play that in front of

28:52

a school chef? I was a way

28:54

that we met tires and he and

28:57

his bride old off free be with

28:59

the cross ads anyway. Friday morning steps

29:01

forward isn't. This. Morning's products

29:03

so else will be given.

29:05

Boy Ah, top of through

29:08

a O S of Peace

29:10

Fire I miss Winifred Aswell

29:12

or that point Every the

29:15

kids all woman who authored.

29:19

Face fines I it's and

29:21

titled the cross him as

29:23

big as so I literally

29:25

save our only did he

29:28

did it went down of

29:30

course. After these kids have.

29:32

Had to move prisoner, people scraping allowing.

29:34

Oh became a hero immediately as in

29:36

I I'm absolutely man united Was this

29:38

is before Rock'n'roll Those that were out

29:40

as it is say that as A

29:42

as lads it's kind of on the

29:44

A. Wow. I always seem to have

29:46

always seen a for myself on the

29:48

edge of these movements to you know

29:50

business beginning of the generation gap as

29:53

well. probably a legs that I had

29:55

that because it was some people who

29:57

the younger guys. who were

29:59

teaching who'd just been brought up as

30:02

a kind of secondary teacher, they

30:04

thought it was wonderful. There were the faces, when

30:06

I looked at the faces of the guys with

30:09

their stiff collars, and it was

30:11

like watching the empire fall. I

30:14

could go. I could go. I could go. I could

30:17

go. I could go. Raven's leaving the tower.

30:19

I mean, what you're most famous for, Brian,

30:21

is the Hammond. And I'm just interested to

30:23

know how you found your way to award

30:25

to Hammond from the piano. I'm guessing you're

30:27

a professional musician at that time. I

30:30

was, yeah. And I was playing jazz

30:33

piano, man. I was it. And it

30:35

was straight from school into that, right? Was it? Well,

30:38

I was, yeah, well, I was, yeah, exactly. I

30:40

was just kind of like, I

30:42

had a day job. I had a

30:45

family to feed because my dad was ill,

30:47

and we had to pay the rent, and

30:49

I had a younger brother, a younger sister.

30:52

So there were two clubs that I used

30:54

to play. They were both in the same

30:56

street, in Gerrard

30:59

Street in

31:01

London, you know. Chinatown. Chinatown.

31:04

Fairly kind of. Was it

31:06

full on Chinatown then? Yeah, it would have been. Yes,

31:08

it was. Well, it wasn't at the time. But

31:10

there were Chinese restaurants, yeah, were the best ones

31:13

to go to as well. So

31:15

I got a phone call. Brian,

31:18

can you do this thing with a guy called Babs

31:21

Gonzalez? Babs Gonzalez was

31:23

a guy who claimed that he'd invented

31:27

the oobla-dee and all that

31:29

kind of stuff. Funny

31:31

guy. But an American,

31:33

I thought, what? John Gee,

31:36

who was working

31:38

for the British

31:40

Jazz Federation or something, I'd gone

31:42

around and taken him around to

31:45

see people who played, and

31:47

he picked me. Unknown to me. I

31:49

want him, and we do two 45s

31:52

a night at Ronnie's. But

31:54

then I got a call from Rick, and

31:57

Rick was the guy who ran the...

32:00

the all-nighter at the

32:02

Flamingo. He was always on for

32:04

me because he had these kind of

32:07

organ band stable that

32:10

he was looking

32:12

after, you know booking them and stuff.

32:15

And he said when you when you're gonna buy an organ then, I said

32:17

how dare you speak to

32:19

me like that. I had a jazz piano

32:22

there if you don't mind. I said

32:24

yeah I know, I know, I know, but it's

32:27

just I mean I've got all this work I mean

32:29

I can put you in all sorts of work if

32:31

you want to you know. I'm

32:33

not doing that, how dare you.

32:36

You know and then about a

32:38

month or two later the phone rings

32:40

at seven o'clock in the morning. I'm

32:42

like what the hell's going

32:44

on here? So I call up, he

32:46

says Brian is that you? I said well wait

32:49

a minute let me have a look in the

32:51

mirror. Yes it is. He says

32:54

look this is Rick Gunnell. He

32:56

said we were in the middle of, this is how

32:59

silly all this stuff is. You

33:01

know we were in the very middle of a kind

33:03

of heat wave of all things in

33:05

England in the

33:07

August there and his

33:09

main band which was doing

33:11

about three things three gigs a

33:13

day was Georgie Faim and

33:16

the Blue Flames. And poor Georgie

33:19

had gone down fell asleep on

33:22

the beach and got really badly

33:24

sunburned and was carted off the hospital.

33:27

And he was the organ player right?

33:29

He was Hammond or organ or whatever

33:31

he played? Well he played, he

33:34

was a rock and roll piano player you

33:36

know but he kind of

33:38

strayed a little bit and you know a few

33:40

jazz people and you know

33:43

it was one of those things I

33:45

listened to it and I said well that's

33:48

that's pretty good but it wasn't

33:50

like you know I

33:53

had that big nose in the air

33:55

thing because you know I

33:57

was a piano player. You

34:00

know, and I was a jazz piano player. But

34:03

now you're forced into something for you. Right,

34:07

exactly. So Rick says, you've got

34:09

to help me out, right? I

34:11

said, well, what do you mean? He says, look, I've

34:13

got all this work. I can't just

34:15

turn it all down. I mean,

34:18

it's three gigs a day, but you had

34:20

to carry the organ backwards and forwards. I

34:23

don't think I could do that, you know? And

34:25

he says, well, we'll have something to do that. And

34:28

we'll get you from place to place. I

34:30

said, yeah, I'm doing like two 45s

34:33

a night with Babs Gonzalez over

34:35

at Ronnies. He says, don't

34:37

worry, we'll get you there with a taxi or

34:39

whatever. Well, OK. And

34:42

I went, he said, right, be at the

34:44

roaring 20s at 8 o'clock tonight.

34:46

So I went down there, and there they

34:48

were, all hard at work, all kind of

34:50

arranging the stage. I looked around, I said,

34:52

here. Where's the piano?

34:55

And the guy says, no, there's no piano, mate.

34:57

No, not any, no, no. I

34:59

said, what? Well, what about some of the supply?

35:01

And then, for God's sake, he says, well, as

35:04

George, it's all gone up there. You know what

35:06

I mean? That's basically it. I

35:08

thought, Rick, you

35:10

should. He

35:13

lumbered me into it, you know? So I thought,

35:15

well, don't panic, Olga. And

35:17

I went, I said, I'd never play

35:19

one of these things. He had an

35:21

M3 with all these switches

35:23

and stuff all over. I

35:27

was already a Jimmy Smith fan.

35:30

Big jazz organ player. Yeah, don't

35:32

panic. Let's try to assemble

35:34

these things so that they sound the nearest

35:37

to Jimmy Smith as possible, which we did.

35:39

And I meant, the tunes that they play

35:41

were very, very simple stuff, really. So we

35:43

did the whole evening, you know? Did you

35:45

fall in love with it? Did you fall

35:47

in love with it? I

35:50

suddenly realized what power it

35:52

had to speak through a

35:54

band. You know, instead

35:56

of all these grimy Old Roses. That

36:00

would piano sister I gossip with her up

36:02

Spinoza just so the having to keyboards and

36:04

pedals them into the have a lot with

36:06

the to them free have a nice and

36:09

naughty i did my no no no no

36:11

no emphasis it was just sat organ. You

36:13

know that if you're not a big discovery

36:15

would have been allegedly cabinet when it was

36:18

his a famous spinning speaker which yes classic

36:20

sound yeah I mean I think that that

36:22

was what was going on. Going.

36:24

On a specific you still there

36:26

was no more no a some

36:28

monitors or anything like I support

36:31

your Juri had to saying. Through.

36:33

This whole thing. You know I'm

36:36

die. Anyway, that was

36:38

it. So we got the funny

36:40

thing I I remembered as I

36:42

got off the stage in the

36:44

Us and a break on those

36:46

workers were walking to the bars

36:48

are gonna Coca Cola has some

36:51

guy came arms has ever asked

36:53

author know you've tried organ possible?

36:55

I don't really. Well.

36:58

When. How long

37:00

you been playing organ? Then I saw about.

37:03

Forty five minutes. Total

37:06

Madness. Man. But. That's.

37:09

That's. Who trap to me into

37:11

suddenly discovering the things that you

37:13

could do? You. Know with but

37:15

it is, it's is or thing here.

37:17

sign with what you're saying that if

37:19

you hadn't it's Josie Fame and fallen

37:21

asleep on the beach. The

37:23

out some sites then then you

37:25

might not be forced to play

37:27

that Discover the saying that is

37:30

you. I say. Felt

37:33

some when I look back.

37:35

the universe has been. Very.

37:38

Shocking to me so was dumped

37:40

me in a situation where I

37:42

saw this is the end Physicists

37:44

put it wasn't it was the

37:46

beginning of something else. Yes as

37:48

as I think there was one

37:50

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drinkag1.com/rockenteurs. Check it out. Let's

40:21

talk about Steam Packet because Long John Baldry was

40:24

already in a band with Rod Stewart, a very

40:26

young Rod Stewart. This is how I think they

40:28

met because John Baldry had

40:30

a band called the Hootie

40:32

Cootie Band. He was a famous blues

40:34

singer. Apparently, leaving the

40:42

Ill Pi Club one night after

40:44

doing a gig, he bumps

40:46

into a young Rod Stewart, 17 or something,

40:50

singing a blues

40:52

song, busking a blues song

40:54

at Twickenham train station. Really?

40:56

Probably Ill Pi Island had something to

40:59

do with that. He

41:01

joined a band. He joined John Baldry's band.

41:03

How did you end up coming together with

41:05

them and Judy Driscoll? Well,

41:07

he was kind of skating around and

41:10

sitting in with different bands all

41:12

dressed up in the

41:15

Carnaby Street special. I

41:20

did this gig. It was in a place

41:22

called the Twisted Wheel in Manchester. I

41:25

loved Manchester actually to play there

41:27

because people were so expressive. I

41:32

went to see Elton John in Manchester last year and

41:34

he did a big thank you to the audience and

41:36

he brought up the Twisted Wheel and how important that

41:39

had been to him. Of

41:42

course, hang on, isn't there a connection here? Didn't

41:44

Elton play... who was

41:47

the first band Elton was in? It was the Brotherhood

41:49

I think it was. Something like that.

41:51

Did he play keys for one of these groups?

41:55

Oh yeah, hang on, we're getting into Pete

41:57

Frame territory here. Don't worry, don't worry, move

41:59

on, move on. Yeah, yeah. We'll come

42:01

to that. Yeah, he you know,

42:04

I got a call from him

42:06

years later when he and he

42:08

says Did I pick up the phone

42:10

call from who? Elton

42:12

John. Oh John. Okay. Yeah, he

42:15

says Brian it's

42:17

Elton It's never done

42:19

this man, you know Elton

42:23

come on mate. It's like Elton John

42:27

What I couldn't believe it

42:29

said Elton for God's sake, you

42:31

know, how are you mate? And he said

42:33

well, I'm okay, but I'm in a rush

42:35

because you know, I'm God I'm

42:37

now on the way to

42:39

a gig and I'm leaving on the

42:41

plane very shortly So I

42:44

said, oh, okay. I said so what's going

42:46

on Elton? So he says

42:48

well, I just wanted to tell you I saw

42:50

your article in the Manchester Guardian You

42:53

know and you mentioned when if for that will

42:56

Yeah And he

42:58

said well on him we all loved Winnie. I

43:00

said, what do you mean? We all loved her?

43:03

Everybody loved Winnie. You know and

43:06

I found out afterwards. I

43:08

asked All the

43:10

piano players I knew like whenever that was

43:12

oh, yeah Why

43:14

was he calling you though? He said well, I used

43:17

to kind of dodge in the back because I was

43:19

like, you know But I did follow

43:21

you all the way through in the one

43:23

to Brotherhood Amazing I said,

43:25

why don't you come up and say

43:28

hello for God's sake says how

43:30

you know? So

43:32

boldery was my so blues

43:34

ology when Elton was Reggie

43:36

Dwight He played piano

43:38

and wait in with John Baldry long John

43:40

Baldry singing. How did Julie Driscoll

43:43

come into this mix? Well, I

43:45

was Called up to

43:48

do a couple of sessions Recording

43:51

sessions and they were for Julie I

43:54

didn't know Julie but when I heard her sing

43:56

I went wow. Well, that's somebody I

43:58

should keep my eye on because

44:01

hell of a singer and

44:04

later on I found out that she

44:06

was being managed by the same manager

44:08

as me and

44:11

yeah this is the twisted wheel thing

44:14

all right we played the twisted wheel

44:17

and who should turn up in

44:19

the break but boulders I guess they're all

44:21

in boulders look here boulders

44:27

so anyway he says here Bri you guess

44:30

it was a household name at the

44:32

time and he came up and he said

44:34

look my my

44:36

managers would like to have a word with you

44:39

actually on Monday this is Saturday

44:41

night and what's the chance of you

44:43

coming coming around you know

44:45

so I went

44:48

and there was a they were

44:50

all sitting there and apparently the

44:52

hoochie coochie men which was

44:55

boulders and there are some

44:57

tales about them that were outrageous

45:03

and his

45:05

manager said look look Brian the

45:07

hoochie coochie men are completely

45:10

out of control John

45:12

can't control them and neither

45:15

can we you know well

45:17

alright so what he said well

45:20

I'd like to start a new band I

45:22

said well who are

45:26

gonna happen a new band or how does it work

45:28

he says well Baldry was there

45:30

his agent was there his manager was

45:33

there my manager was

45:35

there and I

45:38

said well

45:40

what kind of what kind of band are

45:42

you looking for well it could be blues

45:44

it could be some jazz it could you

45:46

know it could I you know all sorts

45:48

of kind of ramifications so

45:51

I said well okay let

45:53

me think about this and he said I've got

45:55

to have this young singer a Rod

45:57

Stewart I

46:00

had to worry about a jam with

46:02

him, he sat down with my band at

46:04

one point. He said,

46:06

that's the only stipulation. I said, well, the thing

46:08

is this mate, if you want

46:10

me to start a band, then

46:12

everybody goes from the last band.

46:15

Cause it's just, it's

46:18

no good man. It goes completely down

46:20

the drain otherwise. And

46:22

he says, well, all right, yeah, but I

46:24

insist upon having Rod. Okay.

46:28

What about the rhythm section of stuff? I said, no, I've

46:30

got a fantastic rhythm session. So

46:32

I could keep those. And

46:35

then after, I've just

46:37

done the record, a couple of

46:40

tracks with this girl called Julie

46:42

Triskell, who's in our agency.

46:45

I said, we should add Julie. And

46:47

they went, well, how does that work then? I

46:50

said, well, you know, if you're

46:52

gonna have two male singers, I mean, what

46:54

are we gonna do exactly? One of them

46:56

stands around or, you know, is

46:58

this one of those like American

47:00

things? That's

47:02

two singers, isn't it? Some of

47:05

us are playing tambourine. Exactly.

47:07

The Marathas. Exactly.

47:11

So I said, look,

47:13

here's an idea. I've just done

47:15

these recordings with a young lady

47:17

called Julie Triskell. And she's

47:19

got a hell of a voice, man. And I

47:21

think we should have her in the band. And

47:24

they all went, Rod said, oh no, we

47:26

can't do that. I said, well, why not?

47:28

She said, well, we won't be able to swear, will we? Ha

47:31

ha ha. So

47:33

I ignored that and I said, look,

47:37

and they said, well, how does that work? You

47:40

know, with all these people, I said like this,

47:43

I go on, I play some

47:45

Jimmy Smith stuff, some Brian August stuff

47:48

to kick the evening off, you know? And

47:51

then on comes Julie. And

47:54

Julie sings some

47:56

of her greatest hits

47:58

from different people. she

48:00

loves and then after a

48:02

couple of them and I

48:04

could sing back up for Julie

48:06

and then Rod comes on and

48:09

we can all sing back up for Rod and

48:11

Rod does his Sam Cook kind

48:13

of impressions and sing

48:16

stuff. So it

48:18

was a slight review about review quality

48:20

about it. Exactly you know because to

48:23

otherwise how are you going

48:25

to organize this. I said and then

48:27

Baldry comes on but this is great because

48:30

with these people who could

48:32

sing back and they know blues and

48:34

they know you know they also know

48:36

you know stuff from the church and

48:39

so we could do gospel. We

48:41

could do that. We could do gospel.

48:43

We could do John could sing gospel.

48:45

Could sing his hits. Amazing. Everything

48:48

went quiet. And they all

48:50

kind of looked around and went what do you think?

48:53

Well why don't you just call me? You

48:55

know there we are

48:58

you know and they called me and said yes

49:00

we want to do that. And you supported the Rolling Stones.

49:02

Oh you played we went on tour with the Rolling Stones.

49:05

Yes we did yeah. But they were

49:07

breaking at the time I guess. Well I

49:09

mean you know with the kind

49:12

of road making equipment you

49:14

know I mean I'm sure they could

49:16

be broken very easily. However the stones

49:18

that we've replied to as

49:21

the the the strolling

49:23

ruins. Everybody

49:27

had a you know another

49:29

name. It's just

49:32

very English. How was that playing

49:34

with them those early tours? Because

49:36

they're screaming girls isn't it? Yes

49:39

it was yeah. Only for a couple of

49:41

rows but then you know

49:43

the places fall off. I'd go down

49:45

and I'd go over only once or twice and I

49:47

knocked on the door and introduced myself and they

49:50

all kind of. A

49:53

jazzer. Mmm. Mighty. I would

49:57

have thought Charlie was all over you.

49:59

He was. Yeah, that was exactly

50:01

my point was the only one guy. Sorry

50:03

the only one that came out and say

50:06

Yeah, right come over here mate Look,

50:09

I've arranged a play because we were

50:11

at the London Palladium and

50:14

I said I've got all everybody You

50:16

know, we've got all this all

50:18

this time in the afternoon and so

50:20

we could have a jam I said,

50:22

you know, that's a great idea man,

50:25

you know, so we did and we jammed

50:29

They had a safety curtain, you

50:31

know, and so didn't matter who

50:33

was behind there So anyway, we did this

50:35

and we had a jam and it was

50:37

it all went off really nicely I

50:42

wish we'd have had a way of

50:45

recording some of that stuff, you know, but I

50:47

think we didn't well That was gonna be my

50:49

next question mister because this is the thing is

50:51

it's a steam packet There's

50:53

stuff has now come out but at

50:55

the time you never there was no

50:57

album or anything was there no there

51:00

wasn't because The

51:02

within the same packet there was

51:04

John Baldry's manager

51:07

There was a Rod's manager It

51:10

was my manager and Julie's

51:12

manager and they managed to

51:14

argue amongst themselves For

51:16

two years we couldn't get

51:19

that was completely stupid because

51:21

John Had I think

51:23

it was a London Records or something like that

51:26

a really good label Honey, he

51:28

should have insisted that that's it.

51:30

It's coming out if we do

51:32

a record. It's coming out on that label I

51:35

would have agreed to that but I don't know

51:37

what went on among it, you know But it

51:39

just went on and there's some recordings out there

51:41

now on there Yeah, hmm, there's basically one album

51:43

which seems to be out in two different versions

51:46

Did Jimmy have to get up on

51:48

stage with the steam packet? What happened?

51:50

What was that? No, that was that

51:52

was that well, they imchill it. Yeah.

51:55

Yeah, sorry. That was a separate thing

51:57

altogether I got a call from

52:00

Chas Chandler, who Jimmy's mentioned, I

52:02

knew from the animals and he

52:04

says, here, Brian, you want to

52:06

come up to the office and

52:08

talk to us? And he'd

52:10

already stopped playing. And I thought, who

52:13

is this office? And it was

52:15

Mike Jeffrey. Mike Jeffrey

52:17

was the biggest crook that I

52:20

could think of, actually, who

52:22

on the side of the business side of the

52:24

industry. In the middle of all this stuff going

52:26

on. And to be

52:28

fair, I said, well, I

52:31

knew inside myself, this wasn't

52:33

going to happen. But I said to Chas,

52:36

I said, well, if you want to talk, man,

52:38

I'll come up, just to

52:40

make sure that you don't sit

52:43

there with egg on your face. So

52:46

anyway, I get to the office and

52:48

he says, here, Brian, we've brought

52:51

this great guitar player over from New York.

52:53

And we want him to, here's the words. We

52:56

want him to front your band. I

53:00

was supposed to collapse on the

53:02

floor with joy at that. But

53:05

I said, wait a minute. I've got somebody

53:07

who fronts my band. It's Julie Driscoll. I said,

53:09

what am I supposed to do? I've got a

53:11

guitar player. I've got a great singer. What do

53:14

I do? Park them on the pavement, you

53:16

know, and pick a dilly and wait for

53:18

somebody to kind of pick

53:20

them up. Mike Jeffery, leering

53:23

underneath this dark

53:26

glass, you know, behind the

53:28

desk says, well, that's

53:30

your problem, isn't it? And

53:32

I thought, spoken like a true Mike

53:35

Jeffery. So I said, no,

53:37

I can't do this, man. I'll

53:40

tell you what I can do, though. I said,

53:42

look, I'll tell you what. I

53:46

think it's a Monday night tonight or... And

53:49

on Thursday, I'm playing at

53:51

this place called the Cromwellian Club, you

53:54

know, on Cromwell Road. And

53:58

you'd be most welcome to bring... get

54:00

to our player you know and in the

54:02

break he can sit in with my band if he wants

54:04

to and so

54:07

Chas says right we'll be there then

54:09

good okay so we leave

54:12

it we get there we play

54:14

the first set and the place is

54:16

jam because it was the only place

54:19

you could get a drink until two

54:21

o'clock in the morning so somebody had

54:23

done a great job of bribing the

54:25

Kensington Borough Council here we are it's

54:30

like buzzing it's crazy you know

54:33

everybody who's everybody so

54:35

they're all about five or six well-known

54:37

guitar players there and people

54:39

like you know Lulu

54:42

and I mean you know

54:44

it was the business clap to

54:46

anyway I guess in the

54:49

middle up comes Chas with

54:51

Jimmy and I said Brian this

54:53

is Jimmy Jimmy hey Jim how

54:57

you doing bro and he

54:59

says oh can I sit in

55:01

with your band I said

55:03

well depends yeah sure

55:05

what do you want to play

55:08

and he gets his guitar and

55:10

he strums these chords but I

55:12

said it sounds alright to

55:15

me it was it was

55:17

actually a

55:20

chord so hey Joe I've

55:22

never heard this before so I said

55:25

yeah here we go then you count in and away

55:27

we go you know so counted

55:30

in and everyone was kind of awestruck

55:32

we were like we were looking at one

55:34

another is this real and

55:38

he played the hell out of this

55:40

tune you know and then

55:42

yeah we all had a go at it

55:44

and it was great and do

55:47

you and you would have been except he would have

55:49

been playing elsewhere this wasn't his first gig of all

55:51

in London ever no no no no

55:53

no he'd been

55:55

on the bag of nails yeah yeah it

55:58

wasn't a gig at all it was just

56:01

sit in and I said at the time

56:03

it's gonna be like could be you know if

56:06

you do it the Cromwell Road it

56:08

could be like a kind of like I

56:11

don't know a showcase for

56:13

him and that would get you off in the right

56:15

foot here basically I

56:18

couldn't believe it man I mean clappers

56:22

or Clapton and boulders

56:24

is called clappers clappers is

56:26

Clapton right clappers

56:29

went home and well

56:33

that's it back to the drawing

56:35

board when

56:38

you did the Hendrix thing I'm just wondering if Trinity

56:40

if you've had your hit by that point if

56:42

you've had this wheels on fire at

56:46

that point I don't think we had okay

56:48

but it was coming shortly yeah right and

56:50

it was funny because those were

56:53

tapes that were sent you know everybody

56:55

knows about the tapes the

56:57

tapes the

56:59

basement tapes this is this is

57:01

a basement tapes and by the

57:03

time they got to us there was

57:05

only two two songs left there

57:08

was this was on fire and I

57:10

think you know the tears of joy or something

57:12

like that you know I'd have listened to this

57:14

and I thought I can't do anything with this

57:16

it doesn't work you know

57:19

now this works to a kind of

57:21

rock beat that I know about you know

57:24

and then I thought to myself look here

57:26

August you're you're

57:28

a jazz player don't forget that you

57:31

know you've heard walking

57:33

bass before now get

57:36

on with it and I thought right

57:38

okay well whoever that is you're

57:42

probably right because I could

57:44

make it like more like a march at

57:46

that particular time it was very you know

57:48

there was some very strange lyrics floating around

57:50

because it was that kind of time you

57:52

know we're gonna need to zip along a

57:55

bit now unfortunately Brian oh I know I

57:58

know her you know need to zip along.

58:01

Anyway, let me know. How

58:04

was the Zeppelin crowd by the way when

58:06

you went out with them? Were you feeling

58:08

your way through that

58:11

as there was something happening? Because in a way

58:13

you were going to move from Wills on Fire

58:16

and making a single into the

58:18

sort of bands who weren't making singles.

58:20

So eventually you end up with

58:23

Brian Auger's Oblivion Express in

58:26

a more sophisticated world of music. Well,

58:30

what I was trying to do was I

58:32

was trying to drag some of the

58:35

things I learned harmonically from

58:37

the jazz side of things into

58:41

melding it with the rock and roll

58:43

beat and trying to make

58:46

a sort of bridge between the ones. You

58:49

were basically on the idea of

58:51

fusion basically before everyone was

58:53

doing fusion. Yeah. Right.

58:55

I hate the word fusion. It's

58:58

an American term. This

59:01

isn't fusion. It's

59:03

music. In fact, John Paul Jones from Led

59:05

Zeppelin, I once heard him give it up

59:08

when he says, look at

59:10

jazz. He said he hates the phrase jazz

59:12

rock because it's the worst elements from both

59:14

those types of music. No,

59:17

but without doubt, I mean, if we're

59:20

jumping forward to Oblivion Express, I mean,

59:22

your first album, A Better Land, which Guy and I

59:24

have been raving about. It's

59:27

so ahead of its time, isn't it? Yeah. It's

59:30

fun in there. But it's also, it

59:33

hasn't the sort of jazzy, funky stuff

59:36

so much of your other stuff. It's

59:38

got like Laurel Canyon and Stevie Dan.

59:40

Yes. That

59:42

was a try because there were a couple

59:44

of, there were me and Jim

59:47

Mullen that were the writers. Yeah,

59:49

that right. You know, and

59:51

I thought, well, I

59:54

think we should expose the two

59:56

poles here of the writing

59:59

and see. you know when you

1:00:01

when you the next move was into second

1:00:03

wind um oh

1:00:06

who's playing bass? who's playing bass? I couldn't find this.

1:00:09

Who's who's could the bass playing on better land

1:00:11

is fantastic um that

1:00:13

was it'll come to it'll come to

1:00:15

me and uh I'll tell it to no

1:00:20

it was a great bass player actually yeah

1:00:22

really but you know just just for

1:00:25

our listeners that album highly recommended I

1:00:27

discovered that album and it is astonishing

1:00:29

well it was the beginning of the

1:00:31

prog period as well

1:00:33

and when that came out I

1:00:36

got blizzed for that album you

1:00:39

know I thought I was like

1:00:41

my god I maybe I'm losing

1:00:43

it completely right you know but

1:00:46

anyway second wind came and that

1:00:49

was the end of a dark

1:00:51

and difficult period for me and

1:00:54

I just kind of began to

1:00:56

pull myself up to the surface

1:00:58

again and I sat down I went second

1:01:07

wind my

1:01:10

second wind is blowing that's

1:01:14

how that that came you know

1:01:16

but there's I think there's a

1:01:19

I think on there there's a another tune

1:01:21

that I wrote called uh

1:01:23

there's an eagle flying yeah

1:01:28

children cry and save the world

1:01:31

from dying uh

1:01:35

help us and I know

1:01:37

look at it now there's

1:01:42

a politician in

1:01:45

the old tradition selling

1:01:49

superstition to us yeah I'm

1:01:51

gonna do that all of

1:01:53

them but

1:01:56

you mentioned prog and I just want to mention a

1:01:58

band that has not been mentioned on this

1:02:00

program before. Which is

1:02:02

Mogul Thrash. It's Job Wayne.

1:02:04

Did you come across this guy? So

1:02:07

Brian produced Mogul Thrash. I think there's

1:02:09

only one track out there on the

1:02:11

internet, which is I think is Dancing

1:02:13

in the Kitchen or something or one

1:02:15

of those. Oh you're sleeping in the

1:02:17

kitchen. Sleeping in the kitchen, thank you.

1:02:19

Which is where this band

1:02:22

was. Job

1:02:25

Wayne singing there. Job Wayne. A lot of things

1:02:27

started to kind of fall to bits at that

1:02:29

time and at least

1:02:31

I managed to get some money,

1:02:34

use it to make a

1:02:37

recording or two of those guys. They were

1:02:40

pretty amazing I must say. You

1:02:42

know they went forward to

1:02:45

make the average white band. Yeah,

1:02:48

yeah. Both the drummers from

1:02:50

Average White Band. Yeah,

1:02:52

amazing. Do you know

1:02:55

what we should mention as well? Because we had

1:02:57

Graham Goldman on the show a few weeks ago

1:02:59

talking about For Your Love, The Yardbirds. You played

1:03:01

keyboards on that didn't you? When you meant to

1:03:03

come in and play the Hammond but one wasn't

1:03:05

there? I

1:03:07

thought that that's exactly what should have

1:03:09

happened and I got a call from

1:03:11

Paul Samwell-Smith.

1:03:14

Right, can you come and play on

1:03:16

a you know on our single? I

1:03:19

said yeah sure. Where are

1:03:21

you? And he says we're in this we're

1:03:24

in this little kind of recording

1:03:26

studio and it's opposite the BBC.

1:03:28

I said right okay what time are you

1:03:30

going to be there? He said well we're there already. I

1:03:32

said right okay I'll get on the tube. So

1:03:35

I went up there and found

1:03:37

this place and knocked on the door and went in.

1:03:39

Samwell-Smith says well I'm

1:03:43

going to play this tune Brian and you know

1:03:45

whatever you want to do. I said

1:03:47

wait a minute where's the

1:03:50

organ? Oh no they they ain't

1:03:52

got no organ in a place like this. I

1:03:55

said what about a piano?

1:03:57

No, no they ain't got a piano either. birds

1:04:00

right so yeah you think that's what you

1:04:02

need. They've only got this. This

1:04:05

was some weird kind of

1:04:07

shape in the corner with a tarpaulin

1:04:09

over it so we hoisted

1:04:12

it off and there

1:04:14

gleaming in the sunshine

1:04:17

was the double-tier

1:04:20

harpsichord you

1:04:22

know I said because we were pretty

1:04:24

good pranksters anyway you know all right

1:04:26

you got me no no

1:04:28

no no I'm serious like let me play

1:04:30

you this tune and I said

1:04:33

well what do you want on it and he said well I I

1:04:36

want an intro and then I

1:04:38

want you to really like push the

1:04:40

rhythms all the way through

1:04:42

so I said well all right put it on so he

1:04:45

did and when I listened to it

1:04:47

I went hmm well what

1:04:49

I can do for you is you see the

1:04:51

beginning now I can use those

1:04:53

chords of the tune but

1:04:55

I can roll them out as an

1:05:00

intro

1:05:02

and

1:05:05

then it went on from there man

1:05:07

it took about yeah it's like a

1:05:09

video was bored I mean I think

1:05:11

so but hang on so then so

1:05:13

the tracks already record was the track

1:05:15

already recorded no okay no it went

1:05:17

from there so they all that sounds like you're

1:05:19

in some sort of voiceover studio or something I

1:05:22

thought about it when I was I was on

1:05:24

my way back down to get

1:05:29

on the tube again I thought it was

1:05:32

a weird weird place and

1:05:34

then I thought well maybe it's

1:05:36

just to background vocals or so

1:05:39

it's amazing is what

1:05:41

that song would have sounded like if

1:05:43

they hadn't called you because I'm so

1:05:45

lindsay yeah yeah I don't

1:05:49

know man just after that everyone wanted what

1:05:51

he dopsied called on their records did they

1:05:53

yeah well I was going down

1:05:56

I was going down to get on

1:05:58

the tube again and I went These

1:06:00

guys are completely crazy, you know. They

1:06:03

all bar me. Who is going to buy

1:06:05

a single with hearts a chord

1:06:07

on it? That's what I have to say. And

1:06:10

boy, I was only a

1:06:12

million or two sales out. Yeah,

1:06:14

yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you playing now,

1:06:16

Brian? Is the Blybin Express still going

1:06:18

out at all? Are you still playing

1:06:20

gigs? No, I'm not. No,

1:06:23

I'm kind of retired at this point,

1:06:25

having done about 60 years

1:06:27

touring, you know. It's

1:06:30

nice to stay and see my grandchildren

1:06:33

and hang out with them. But

1:06:35

it looks like you've still got a set up there. You're

1:06:37

still playing, aren't you? Yes, I am. I

1:06:40

still play and I still write

1:06:42

stuff. Anyway,

1:06:44

a French guy who used

1:06:46

to play piano in a bordello wrote

1:06:49

these three things called a gymnopathy.

1:06:52

Oh, yes, called a saucy. Yes,

1:06:54

saucy. That's it. You know,

1:06:56

and I've got two of them. I've

1:06:59

written and I'm working

1:07:02

on the third because they're so nice,

1:07:04

you know. Brian,

1:07:06

it's been a pleasure talking to you and

1:07:09

hearing some of those amazing stories. Yes, there's

1:07:11

plenty of them. Anyway,

1:07:14

you know, I mean, it

1:07:16

was your time. It was an amazing period.

1:07:19

And anyway, it's been a great pleasure to

1:07:21

talk to you guys. And,

1:07:23

you know, maybe we'll do it again at some

1:07:25

point. Yeah. And if we're over on the left.

1:07:28

I was pointing out because it was actually pointed

1:07:30

out by Mark Lusty, the guy who sort of

1:07:32

sorted this out, who I was at school with. But

1:07:35

today was International Jazz Day. So there

1:07:37

you go. Hmm. You know,

1:07:39

it's really funny, man, because the

1:07:42

first thing that the

1:07:44

upper crust used to ask me was,

1:07:47

you were you

1:07:49

classically trained? I said,

1:07:51

no, no, I wasn't. Actually, I'm

1:07:54

you know, I just kind of got it together

1:07:56

myself. There was no schools or

1:07:58

anything like that. And

1:08:00

I thought to myself, all

1:08:02

these years later, Jazz

1:08:04

arrived because a

1:08:06

lot of the guys

1:08:10

unfortunately had to fight in

1:08:13

the civil war over here, which was

1:08:15

diabolical, when you think of

1:08:18

it all, left a

1:08:20

lot of their instruments lying around down in

1:08:22

the south where they got a hammering. There

1:08:26

is where these things

1:08:28

were picked up and

1:08:31

some people started getting

1:08:33

really good at it and then two

1:08:36

or three people got together and it

1:08:38

got even better. Yeah, because before then it

1:08:41

was just the guitar, then suddenly it

1:08:43

was the keyboard and the trumpet. Yeah,

1:08:45

of course. And then suddenly people couldn't

1:08:47

afford them, could they? No.

1:08:51

And there were no schools to go

1:08:53

to to learn Jazz, but

1:08:55

what you could do is, if you

1:08:57

were working in the field with

1:09:00

the 11 foot cotton sack, you

1:09:02

could say terrible things about

1:09:04

the boss if you sang

1:09:06

them. If you

1:09:08

actually said them face to face, they'd

1:09:10

probably hang you. It's

1:09:14

just absolute madness. But

1:09:17

anyway, gentlemen,

1:09:20

thank you. That's Brian, thank you so

1:09:22

much, man. Thank you so

1:09:24

much and I hope we do

1:09:26

this again. Oh, so do I,

1:09:28

man. Fantasticly entertaining. Hey, what a

1:09:30

sweet guy. What a lovely guy. That was

1:09:32

amazing. That was the

1:09:34

nearest to an Ealing comedy we've ever had.

1:09:37

I mean, some of the things you were saying, it was almost like, it's

1:09:40

like sort of Spike Milligan

1:09:42

meets Christopher Walken. Yeah, oh

1:09:45

yeah. There's a bit of Robert De

1:09:47

Niro in there at times. I

1:09:49

was definitely saying Robert. Talking to me. But,

1:09:52

you know, I actually think I like these when we

1:09:54

talk to these, this older generation, like we have

1:09:56

Marty Wildon at one point. And

1:10:00

who was the producer we had on from Mahou? Oh,

1:10:03

Shall Tell Me. Shall Tell Me. So you know,

1:10:06

they just go back more into the roots of

1:10:08

where we all came from. And it seemed to

1:10:10

me that when he was describing his house being

1:10:12

blown up by a

1:10:14

doodle bug, and that noise, kind of

1:10:16

what they were, you know, rock and

1:10:19

roll was trying to reproduce in a way. More

1:10:21

of that noise. Louder

1:10:23

than war. Yeah,

1:10:25

louder than bombs. On

1:10:28

that note. That was an amazing little

1:10:30

history lesson at the end about, which

1:10:32

is so true, about the Civil War,

1:10:34

meaning there were all these instruments left

1:10:37

around. That was really interesting. Yeah. Really

1:10:39

interesting. Brilliant. Yeah. Very

1:10:41

nice episode. We'd

1:10:43

like to thank Ben, of course, who produces

1:10:46

our show. Lewis. Ben Jones, every week

1:10:48

for Gimme Sugar. And I'm

1:10:50

gonna go see you next week. We've got someone else on, haven't

1:10:53

we? There'll be someone. We'll think of something. We'll pull something out

1:10:55

of the hat. All right, all the best. And it's a good

1:10:57

night from me. And good night from them. Rock

1:11:01

Hunters is produced by Gimme Sugar Productions

1:11:03

for Warner Music Group UK. Hold

1:11:11

up. What was that? Boring. No

1:11:13

flavour. That was as bad as

1:11:15

those leftovers you ate all week.

1:11:18

Keke Palmer here. And it's time

1:11:20

to say hello to something fresh

1:11:22

and guilt-free. HelloFresh. Jazz up dinner

1:11:24

with pecan, crusted chicken, or garlic

1:11:26

butter shrimp scampi. Now that's music

1:11:28

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1:11:31

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