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Ohio Lottery. Let's discuss my newest prize possession,

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them! Lottery players are subject to Ohio laws and

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commission regulations. Play responsibly. Somebody stopped me in

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the street and said, you know the best part of Rosebud?

0:33

It's the theme tune. I said,

0:35

do you mind? It's supposed to be all

0:37

the extraordinary people we have, from Judi Dench

0:39

through to Charles Dance. They said, no, no,

0:41

it's the music. Every

1:05

week, someone special, and this week is

1:07

no exception, it's a very

1:09

special performer, who is my guest on

1:11

Rosebud today, someone who has

1:13

had a remarkable career.

1:16

They started out as a stand-up,

1:19

been on tour around the

1:21

world, become, in fact, genuinely

1:24

world-famous, also a marathon runner,

1:26

someone who's run hundreds of

1:28

races, sometimes back-to-back, a political

1:30

activist, a campaigner, and

1:33

a delightful human being. That's

1:35

right, it's Eddie Isard. But

1:38

how well do you know Susie

1:41

Eddie Isard, as she tells me

1:43

she prefers to be called these

1:45

days? Well, her childhood was unusual.

1:48

The family moved around due to Susie's

1:50

father's job with British Protellium. They were

1:53

first in Aydan, and then in Northern

1:55

Ireland, and then in South Wales, and

1:57

then everything changed when...

2:00

Susie's mother died. Susie

2:03

was only six and was sent away

2:05

to boarding school. Still Eddie then.

2:08

What impact did this early

2:10

childhood trauma have on

2:13

the six-year-old Susie Eddie Isard?

2:15

We discuss this and so much more.

2:18

Enjoy this. It's a bit different. Of

2:20

course it is. This is Rosebud. Well

2:36

I'm very excited because here at the Groven

2:38

House Hotel I'm sitting with Eddie

2:40

Isard. Now that is your professional name.

2:42

Yes. I've got that right. I've added

2:45

a name to it. I've added Susie

2:47

into the mix. So

2:49

Susie Eddie Isard is what I'm going to be when I get

2:51

through all the forms to change everything. The

2:54

NHS have very kindly said, oh

2:57

you know as a trans person you'd like to

2:59

put Susie in it. We'll throw that in the

3:02

mix. And so it now has Susie Edward John

3:04

Isard, which is Edward John Isard is my the

3:07

name on the passport. But I call

3:09

you Susie privately. Yes. Eddie Isard is

3:11

what if we are selling you as

3:13

an act. Yes but also some

3:16

call me Eddie, my director Selena likes to

3:18

call me Eds. And I've

3:20

said instead of having there's an idea

3:22

of dead names that you move you change on. But I've

3:24

always said I'm gender fluid but

3:27

I prefer to live as a trans woman

3:29

now. And so I've

3:32

said there's no dead names. So you think you call

3:34

me Eddie call me Susie that's fine. She, her, prefer

3:36

don't mind he him. Can't get it wrong with me.

3:38

Just don't call me Arthur or Sabrina. That's

3:40

very nice. You're totally relaxed about it. Yes I've

3:42

been very relaxed and I've issued that was a

3:45

statement I issued on out

3:47

in social media and it's

3:49

designed to take out the sting of some

3:51

people go oh we're gonna make a mistake.

3:53

You can't make a mistake but just don't

3:55

call me Arthur because that's not that wasn't

3:57

in the mix. People are very careful about

4:00

it because I was talking about you on

4:02

a television this morning saying I'd been to

4:04

see your Hamlet at the Riverside Studios which

4:06

I had loved and telling them about that

4:08

but I could see the presenters were anxious

4:10

yes because I said Eddie

4:12

is on they were looking at me

4:14

with slightly white eyes I said who

4:16

professionally is Eddie is odd says that

4:18

on the posters but personally I think

4:20

prefers to be called Susie and I

4:22

think now identifies as a trans female

4:24

that's what they're most comfortable with yes

4:26

trans woman and and yeah I'm

4:29

trying to make it easy easier but

4:31

it might think there's two names swirling

4:33

around but but you can use either

4:35

of them or just call me mate

4:37

or boy you but you're easy you're

4:40

comfortable it's nice to be greeted and

4:42

I won't sit court I came out

4:44

40 years ago next year so it's like

4:46

came again we'll come on to all this

4:48

you came out there not as a trans

4:50

female well I came as a trans person

4:52

as a transgender you know if we were

4:54

TV the language has changed as it has

4:56

for people of color over the years you

4:58

know different titles have come up so I was

5:01

TV when I first came out and

5:03

people say your television TV transvesta the

5:05

world the word had not updated since

5:07

the Romans left here in 410 AD

5:09

and they went out and they said

5:11

the word is transvesta then we do

5:13

not update it because there's a difference

5:16

between trans vendor transvesta

5:18

no no no I feel it's all

5:20

it's all in trans area it's just

5:22

whether how far you've transitioned through your

5:24

journey on your on transitioning or whether

5:26

you wish to it's it's but

5:29

are you more transvestite than transgender no no

5:31

I'm just I'm trans I'm trans because

5:33

you can get lost in the words

5:35

here the point is we're obsessed by

5:37

I've used this analogy before Tigers are

5:39

not obsessed by whether we are

5:42

men women gay straight LGBTQ they're not bothered

5:44

if a tiger attacks you you'll find that

5:46

tiger is not going hey I think it's

5:48

I think they could be get long hair

5:50

could be native American it's called this to

5:52

oh no maybe there's it's glam rock period

5:54

I'm not sure and we're not obsessed with

5:56

Tigers either Tigers are Tigers tech is it

5:58

male or female not sure Could be

6:00

a tiger, I'm not sure. I can't tell because the

6:02

tigers look, we should not

6:04

be so obsessed about it. You mentioned the NHS being

6:07

very helpful to you. Why? So

6:09

this is, if you want to- It was a nice thing for

6:11

NHS, I just said, I consider

6:13

myself a trans woman now, and so, can I, and

6:15

I know, Susie, can I add Susie to it? They

6:17

said, we'll put it at the front. Oh, and they

6:20

put it in. It's not, you wouldn't demand you have

6:22

to be in a female-only ward. No, no, no, this,

6:24

I'm not pushing for that. I know it's just on

6:26

the- On the piece of paper. Just on the piece

6:28

of paper, on the computer. They just add the word

6:30

Susie in there, and they put it also in vertical,

6:32

and so, like, I like to be known as that, and

6:35

so, that is very nice of them

6:37

at the NHS. Well done,

6:39

the NHS, and well done, Susie, and thank

6:42

you for being here. Let's begin at the

6:44

beginning. Yes, indeed. I want to ask you,

6:46

Susie, for your very first memory. Well,

6:50

my very first memory, it's a little tricky

6:52

because it's actually placing what is that first

6:54

memory. It's difficult to carbon date them, but

6:56

it was with mum. It's kind of an

6:58

adventurous one. So, we're living in Bangor, kind

7:01

of down, and we

7:03

sign like this. Me and my brother

7:06

and the streets, sign it like this. And the

7:08

house, we had to speak English. We had English

7:10

parents. Mum was from Kent, dad was from Sussex,

7:12

and dad was become chief accountant at BP

7:15

in Belfast, and we were born in

7:17

Aiden, so we were moving around refineries

7:20

where dad was doing the accounting. And then

7:22

mum said, let's go down

7:24

to the shops. So,

7:26

this is like my first adventure. We're gonna go to

7:28

the shops and go to the bicycle, and she was

7:31

gonna help me along. And she put, I think she

7:33

got dad to put this little box on the back

7:35

so we could put whatever we were

7:37

buying, whatever she was buying into the back there.

7:39

And I remember going down a little

7:41

pathway over a brook, a small little

7:43

stream, and up the other side into

7:45

a shop, and then

7:48

mum ordering foodstuffs, and I'm

7:50

the one on the bike. And

7:53

that was my first, I think my

7:55

first adventure. Do you remember the country you were born

7:57

in? Where was it, you said? This is Aiden. Aarden

8:00

is the name of the city. The British called

8:02

it Aiden because they couldn't pronounce, ah. Ah,

8:05

interesting. Do you remember that at all? I

8:07

don't, I was one when I left, but we were eight

8:09

years there. Dad was there for eight years and

8:12

he divorced his first wife while he was

8:14

there, met my mom. So he met my

8:17

married mom. I had my older brother,

8:19

Mark, was born there in 60 and I

8:21

was born there in 62. What were they like as a couple, your parents?

8:24

As two people together? Difficult to know because, you know, mom died

8:26

in 68, but. And

8:28

when were you born? I was born in 62. Five.

8:31

So I was six. Yeah,

8:34

six growing up. Do you remember them as

8:36

a couple together? Yeah, difficult

8:38

from a perspective of a kid growing up,

8:41

you know, years growing up to six, of

8:43

actually looking at your parents and studying them

8:45

as a couple. I

8:48

think mom looked after the kids and

8:51

dad was away at work and mom

8:53

was also a nurse, had been a

8:55

nurse. So she really had the

8:58

credentials to look after kids. And

9:00

so I think dad said, right, you do that and I'll

9:02

keep the career going. Cause he was the first to have

9:05

a career in the family. So I believe it was mom,

9:08

Dorothy was the love of dad's life and.

9:12

And what sort of woman was she? What was

9:14

her parents? Was she tall, small, pretty? I don't

9:16

think she was terribly tall. Dad

9:18

was five, three and a half. Oh gosh, she

9:21

was small. Yeah, we were a small family. That's

9:23

quite small. Yes, but he said, small

9:25

and such are tall in personality. Was she

9:27

smaller than him? I think, and I think

9:29

she's a. So she was petite. Yes, she

9:32

wants to be petite. And

9:34

was she pretty? And to me, obviously, she

9:36

was tall. She was pretty and, but

9:39

I don't think she really went for

9:41

glam. She had worked as a nurse.

9:43

So she was very loving. She

9:45

loved amateur dramatics and she loves

9:48

her singing. Apparently sang in the

9:50

choir at Albert Hall.

9:52

That's what I'd heard. I

9:55

had no proof of that. So I did, but she was maybe

9:57

with a number of other nurses and some nurses.

10:00

something like that, but she did love

10:02

amateur dramatics, the little Aiden Dramatics Society,

10:04

there's pictures of her playing Princess Jasmine,

10:07

is it Jasmine or Jasmine? In the, in the Latin.

10:09

Is it Aiden or Arden? Oh, that's called

10:11

the whole thing off. In the Latin. In the Latin.

10:14

I don't know if you, Princess Jasmine, I think it would be Jasmine.

10:16

I think it would be Jasmine. What is

10:18

your happiest memory of physically being

10:20

with your mother? What

10:25

is the happiest time, you mean? Yes, or just

10:27

your recollection of your head. All of them, every

10:29

single one. I mean, because there are

10:31

really no bad times. She, I remember she, she worked

10:34

with me on my spelling. So

10:36

that's interesting. So it shows that, because I'm

10:38

severely atypically dyslexic. I spy with golf, I

10:40

spy at ceiling with an S, cat

10:43

with a K, things like this. So,

10:45

and I do remember her going through spelling with me when

10:47

I was at Ballyhoo in primary school.

10:50

I have a recollection of being with

10:52

my mother coming home from school, having made

10:55

Marmite and tomato sandwiches. And

10:58

sitting with her and she did knitting and

11:01

I would put out my hands and

11:03

she would unravel the wool around, I

11:06

would hold the wool around my wrists. Asking

11:09

for a picture like that. I'm trying to picture.

11:11

I thought you were gonna say she knitted your

11:13

hands into her gom. Well,

11:16

I did cooking with mum. I used to,

11:18

mum did cooking and she used

11:20

to chop the potatoes into chip shapes.

11:23

I remember painting toy

11:25

cars with humble paints. I

11:28

was seeing Popeye on television and saying, mum, I'm gonna

11:30

have spinach. She said, you won't like it. No, I'm

11:32

gonna have spinach. And he went like,

11:35

spinach, it really works for this guy. This

11:37

oddly shaped guy on television. And then I

11:39

had it and I'm, oh, this is awful.

11:42

No, spinach for me, thank you, mum. But, you

11:44

know, we went on holiday. I remember we were

11:46

going on holiday when I was three. I remember

11:48

that as well. Cause I locked in all the

11:50

early memories cause she died when I

11:52

was six. So I think I went backwards and forwards

11:55

in the memories and locked a lot of them in.

11:57

Were you conscious that she was ill? I mean, why didn't she die?

12:00

She died of bowel cancer. I

12:02

knew she was ill, but I didn't know that death came from that, because

12:07

I'd had measles and you get ill and you get

12:09

better. Was your older brother,

12:11

Mark? Was he aware of what was

12:13

going on? No. And your father kept

12:15

this from you? They both discussed

12:17

it, and there were two schools of thought

12:19

at the time. If

12:22

you don't tell the kids, then the kids carry on, and,

12:24

hey, Mum, hey, it's good to see you, Mum. Coming in,

12:26

running and jumping on the bed, you know, just

12:28

being fun, even though she had a nurse at

12:31

that point and got jaundiced and she'd gone yellow. And

12:34

then one day she wasn't there. Now it's now believed

12:37

it's better to bring the kids up to speed. And

12:39

one day she wasn't there, meaning that she went away to

12:41

hospital and she died in hospital? No, no, she died in

12:44

bed at home. So, but you can't

12:46

remember your last meeting with her or your last

12:48

time with her? No. Just sort

12:50

of game went. No, because there wouldn't have been a time. It

12:52

was Christmas of 67, she made a raven out for me. I

12:56

played a raven at primary school. Great costume. Yeah,

12:59

I got a picture of that. And

13:02

then Dad said she made

13:04

Christmas dinner in Christmas of 67

13:07

and then went to bed and didn't get out of bed until

13:09

March, and

13:11

she died in March of 68. Yes,

13:14

it was very tough, and they had discussed it. Did you

13:16

go to stay with another member of the family, or did

13:18

you go home? What happened? Well, immediately afterwards. Yeah. And

13:21

then we all went and hollered for

13:23

a month around Ireland where we'd had

13:25

such a good time. So, yeah,

13:27

I could sit in the front seat, because I'd suffered

13:30

from motion sickness. I remember being able

13:32

to sit in the front seat and

13:34

not feeling so sick and just

13:36

singing to myself the

13:38

theme to white horses.

13:42

And I sang it over and over and

13:44

over and over as a

13:46

sort of control mantra just to keep

13:48

my mind from collapsing, I think.

13:51

We just couldn't quite believe... Yeah,

13:54

you can't believe it. And they'd discussed it,

13:56

and they'd said, I'm

13:58

a dad that decided that board a horse. boarding school

14:00

was the answer. Before we get

14:02

to the school, did you become closer to your father

14:04

as a result of this? Did you and Mark try

14:06

to support him? Do you think? We

14:08

didn't try to support him. I don't think

14:11

that we had the announce left of thinking

14:14

about what our father was feeling. I

14:16

mean, he had out, he used to go to sleep

14:18

with, he said with the television on, but the television

14:20

used to knock off and sit down. I think it

14:22

probably went radio two on, because I think that was

14:24

going through the night at that time or whatever was

14:27

going. He just maybe just left the thing on and

14:29

it would be fuzz and noise when,

14:31

you know, because there was no one in the house. He'd

14:33

gone from everyone in the house to no one in the

14:36

house. But he, you

14:38

know, he did what he could

14:40

to be mother and father to us. And

14:42

I sort of clung on to my brother and my brother

14:44

clung on to no one because he

14:47

was the older brother and it

14:49

was very tough for him. So

14:51

I was six, I was clinging on to

14:53

my brother and, you know, we were in the same

14:55

dormitory and then we got separated out and by the

14:57

time we went to the next school, we came back

14:59

to Eastbourne where Dad had grown up and we were

15:01

at school there, bead school there. And I used

15:04

to cry a lot when we used to come back from holidays.

15:07

And then I had gotten a fight

15:09

at age 11 and I cried and

15:11

I thought, oh, this crying thing is bad. You

15:13

lose arguments by crying because this is standing there

15:15

crying. So let's not cry. Okay. Stop crying now.

15:17

Boom. And I just pressed a

15:19

button in my head and I stopped crying until I

15:22

was 19 and I realized I was a

15:24

damaged person. I think the boarding schools can

15:26

do that to you. They can, they can

15:28

make you, you survive by being unemotional. Who

15:30

is your first school friend other than your

15:32

brother Mark? Oh, it's interesting.

15:35

I've had, I'm not

15:38

sure. Cause I didn't,

15:40

there's a thing of people having friends

15:45

and they have friends, they keep touch with their friends

15:48

in a medical as they go through. And I've, I've

15:50

had very few,

15:53

um, there's people

15:55

like, like a boarding school, you get crammed together, a whole bunch of

15:57

kids and you sort of get on with them quite intensively, especially if

15:59

you're a brother. Sergeant

18:11

and mr. Smith, you're gonna love

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this house. Bunk beds in

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a closet? There's no field

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manual for finding the right home. But when

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you do, USAA homeowners insurance can help protect

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it the right way, Restrictions apply.

20:00

story of St. Cuthbert. I

20:02

don't think that story is terribly grabby but

20:04

his mother seemed incredibly

20:07

interesting and so she was getting the kid

20:09

playing the mother was getting a lot

20:11

of reaction and I thought I'm gonna do this

20:14

because mum's affection

20:16

had disappeared and I didn't wasn't saying dad for two

20:18

Thursday because of the board it's good suddenly the audience

20:20

I could the audience will say good things and also

20:22

I look just like the idea of being on stage

20:24

it's suddenly watching this play as watching the play and

20:27

a part of the mother in the boy with the

20:29

card is key when it's not that

20:31

it's not that it's just someone up there was

20:33

getting good reaction it's nothing to do with boys

20:35

and mums and that audience

20:38

affection which I've tried I think it's quite I've analyzed this

20:40

I think it's quite a good thing because it's it's it's

20:42

it's conditional so so

20:45

if I do well the audience will go

20:47

oh that is good if I

20:49

just phone it in they go this is

20:51

not terribly good we're just gonna we're just

20:53

gonna wonder and is it to the world

20:55

you're doing that or is it to your

20:57

family the reason I ask is my wife

20:59

is constantly saying to me Charles your

21:01

parents are dead now you don't need to

21:04

impress them anymore you really don't it's

21:06

fine you can relax now were

21:09

you doing some of this from an

21:11

early age to impress

21:13

your father and to reward your mother

21:15

who wasn't there to see you doing

21:17

is anything in that no I I'm

21:19

afraid I don't I wasn't

21:21

impressed that cuz that was always very supportive and

21:24

there was you know cuz you do hear a

21:27

father's going well you'll never about to anything but

21:29

he was quite easy either if I wanted

21:31

to do that fine he was just no problem

21:33

on that mum loved her amateur dramatic so if

21:35

she'd been around I think she would have encouraged

21:37

it but I have said

21:39

I did say this in I've got two books

21:41

he's one's a documentary was a book and then

21:43

the belief documentary there is this when

21:46

Sarah Townsend the director was going through it and

21:48

saying you haven't really opened up on anything and

21:50

there's this point why said I think I know

21:52

why I'm doing this I'm trying

21:55

to do enough interesting things that mum

21:58

from beyond I

32:00

mean, last year's thing, but I was wearing

32:02

leg warmers and some red heels, and

32:05

I just knew, don't go out the front

32:07

door when the kids are all having their

32:09

lunchtime, because they all hang around the corner

32:11

shop there. And teenagers will be very upfront

32:13

on, what the hell's going on there? But

32:17

what the reaction I did get was, he's

32:20

wearing leg warmers. That was it,

32:22

I thought, that's it? That's as tough as you're gonna get

32:24

on here? Okay, I mean, I've had

32:26

some other horrible times with people. And

32:30

I've had some more interesting times. Give us an interesting

32:32

one, we don't want the Hollywood one. Well, the interesting

32:35

one was two drunk guys, so it was about three

32:37

years ago, and they were going, hey

32:39

darling, hey darling, I'm walking down the street. But

32:41

I turned out and said, be careful, you're wandering

32:43

into a hate crime here. And

32:47

they slowed right down. And just to hear them go, mmm,

32:50

their brains just slowed down, ooh, they probably

32:52

don't so good. And

32:54

then they, and then they've

32:58

sloughed off into some other area. But

33:01

that was, usually, if people say

33:03

horrible things to me, I just say horrible things

33:05

back. And what about girls? Who was your first

33:08

serious girlfriend beyond

33:10

Kate? I mean, is it

33:13

difficult finding girlfriends? Well, I'm

33:16

not gonna go into lots of relationships. No,

33:18

no, no, no, be general. Is

33:21

it difficult finding girlfriends? Yes, it is

33:23

tricky. I don't want

33:25

to, having

33:30

relationships, if you're a trans person,

33:32

that's going to be tricky. But

33:34

I'm quite happy with my own company, and I'm

33:37

very happy in the position I am at the

33:39

moment. So I'm not looking. If someone comes along

33:41

and we click very well, then absolutely, but I'm

33:43

not actively going to discos. I've

33:46

got to find this person because I've got

33:48

a lot of work to do, and

33:51

I'm very happy with life, and I've

33:53

got to get on and do that. So

33:56

you're not doing dating apps and things? No, no.

34:00

I do believe at some point I could, the

34:03

right person could be there and we could

34:05

click. But right now I'm

34:07

cool. I mean, I'm just, out

34:09

of curiosity, is there a type that you fancy? It's

34:13

the Nicole type. I'm really wishing I

34:15

could meet Nicole. Well, it's, she's- She's

34:17

shown some pictures later. Nicole Cunningham, yeah,

34:20

she's fantastic. She's, I think she's a

34:22

nurse, like my mum. And

34:24

she's down living in Eastbourne. And I

34:26

owe her a visit. But,

34:31

you know, it needs to be an intelligent person.

34:34

Great conversation, interesting load of things.

34:36

Good sense of humor, attractive. Smoke

34:39

up, vegetarian? Probably not smoking, since I've given

34:41

up smoking. If they did smoke, if they're

34:43

all that and they did smoke, that

34:46

would be interesting. I wonder if that would be a tricky thing. I

34:48

think it'd be a turn off. I think it'd be a tricky thing

34:50

because- And you don't drink now

34:52

either, do you? Yeah, no, I've, I gave up

34:54

on 1st of November. I think I am better

34:57

off it. I never used to drink that much, I

34:59

thought, but then I used to drink it like lemonade.

35:01

I used to mix it with fizzy

35:03

water and have

35:06

spritzes all the time, but- When did you first realize

35:08

that your life was going to be as a performer?

35:11

Well, when I was seven, I thought, I'm going to do this and

35:13

I want to do this. I didn't realize you could do it professionally,

35:15

but I tried very hard to do things. I did, you know,

35:18

I did break into Pima Studios when I was 15. I

35:20

did, because I worked at where it

35:23

was, I just thought someone could put me in

35:25

a film, couldn't they? I managed to inveigle my

35:27

way into things. I tried

35:29

to get into OTT later on when I was

35:31

at university by hitching down to Spaghetti Junction, getting

35:33

off on the top. Over

35:35

the top, it was the Tiswas evening show,

35:38

Chris Tarrant. I tried to find out and

35:40

pretend I was Chris Tarrant's agent to him,

35:44

which is what Peter Sellers had done. I heard

35:46

Peter Sellers had done this, but these were, these

35:48

were a bit out there ideas, but I was

35:50

trying hard to get into- And when you

35:52

got to Sheffield University? Sheffield University, yeah. And did

35:54

you do drama there? Did you perform that? Almost

35:56

drama. It's called accounting and financial management with mathematics.