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you're listening to rough translation from npr

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we are deepen our new season all about

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work if you've been checking it out our last

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three episodes have been about saying no to

0:25

work and , we might learn

0:27

about our cultures ourselves when we stand

0:29

up and ask for rest rest

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i dunno about you but it has made me made

0:34

i need break no seriously

0:36

our whole team does need break so

0:38

today we're going to air one of my favorite episodes

0:41

about work from twenty nineteen

0:43

it has do with busting a different kind

0:45

of taboo that we carry taboo workplace

0:48

talking honestly about messing

0:51

up messing a club that formed

0:53

around world to do just that

1:03

when

1:03

was kid growing up chiapas mexico

1:05

pepe the toro was kind of in all

1:07

of his dad he could sell your rocks

1:10

much , members even

1:12

as early as eight years old he would spend

1:14

his school vacations sitting the back

1:16

seat his dad's car driving around

1:18

bumped the back rows of chiapas selling

1:21

stuff and i was super shy

1:23

i am the joke my family they say

1:26

that until was eighteen years old lady

1:28

and zoc which is gonna truth assess

1:30

on my dad would have to tell me in general

1:32

go ahead and se thought that was like

1:35

what you mean by can just go out

1:37

to worry selling well

1:40

my dad sold everything from

1:42

tomatoes two motorcycles

1:44

two motorcycles him etc

1:47

it leads are very very very long list

1:49

and unease drives his normally silent

1:51

dad would talk to him about his latest

1:53

ventures the

1:55

was kind person you could see a problem in

1:57

the world and immediately think of way to turn

1:59

into is this

2:01

one day we were travelling it was long

2:04

trip and told him for can all these

2:06

potholes the road and you know

2:08

they're mainly potholes in this but since

2:10

and he told me like you know where i found

2:13

these my seen these trucks

2:16

to feel potholes so

2:19

it it can be big for us as family

2:21

and you use your dad being

2:24

super proud and excited

2:27

about an opportunity that

2:30

bought the machine with his own money he

2:32

had made this big investment and then

2:34

he never filled single pothole

2:36

he could not find anyone pay him to actually

2:38

do it so he was so

2:41

ashamed buying be seen and

2:43

them to thing was just barack those

2:45

who house here not being used

2:48

that he never talked about it when people

2:50

with a hey as embassy which is pretended it wasn't

2:52

there yeah has six like

2:54

me failure

2:56

was these massive taboo when

2:58

i grew up

3:00

you see the story of my

3:03

family and need so

3:05

full of failures so many of dad's

3:07

big plans they would inch right

3:09

up to the edge of success only to

3:11

fall apart at last minute

3:13

like the time he secured big loan from the

3:15

state bank which is really hard to get for small

3:18

business owner for a poor state but

3:20

then he had some trouble paying the debt so

3:22

he went back to the bank to talk to the manager

3:25

and he got so i agreed with the regional

3:27

managers that he took him

3:29

by the next and

3:32

a little bit violent physically

3:35

with the manager of bank so

3:37

the obviously put in negotiated with that person

3:40

anymore

3:46

my dad couldn't separate the

3:49

concept , failure from

3:51

being a loser loser you're responsible

3:54

for bringing food and money him

3:57

he'd you're gonna do that you're that loser view you're

3:59

worthless

4:00

that they get older being loser

4:03

was the thing that he was determined to avoid

4:05

i remembered many

4:07

of these conversations solve my

4:10

parents telling me you

4:12

should become an engineer

4:14

because that way you will have salary

4:16

so petty went college and studied

4:18

physics to become an engineer it

4:20

on his last semester he happened see flyer

4:23

for competition to invent business

4:27

there was something you seen his father do a lot of times

4:30

knew that he wasn't interested that fight

4:32

it's a free trip panorama that was

4:34

my motivation assistance as

4:36

and i joined the team and mostly

4:39

physicists creating a business

4:41

plan and for an eco tourism

4:43

companies pan we

4:46

ended up actually being one of the finalists

4:48

happy got his breach of panama

4:51

and entered this whole other world

4:53

where he met people his own age

4:55

talking about the businesses they'd started these

4:58

sounds more familiar designs

5:00

, what my dad beat out his life

5:02

except that these people word failing

5:05

they were solving big problems and making

5:07

money doing it you know paying rent paying

5:09

for their food doing the work

5:11

they wanted to do

5:13

adding the impact they wanted to have you

5:15

hadn't seen models like that before

5:18

same he was two thousand

5:20

seven a naive

5:23

the didn't know the word entrepreneur

5:26

the sky was a breakthrough

5:28

moment for me and i said i went

5:31

to be like these people

5:33

i'm gregory winner and this is rough

5:35

translation the shower we take you to faraway

5:37

places with stories that hit close

5:39

to home that , of successful

5:42

entrepreneurship that pet they discovered in

5:44

panama data something a lot of

5:46

countries around world are trying to promote

5:49

promote there's a reason for that there's a sense

5:51

that there fewer jobs for people being born

5:53

robots taking the jobs we know that fear

5:56

over the future work it's lead

5:58

to countries encouraging people the start

6:00

companies have their own but

6:03

succeeding at start ups also

6:05

means knowing how say i want you

6:07

to celebrate fail mean there's

6:09

this whole silicon valley church bell you the pub

6:11

does beer money from your goal

6:13

in every minute of every day billboards

6:16

helen you fail fail fail either they'll

6:18

quickly your best life is

6:20

on the other side of failure

6:22

but how well does that apply to places where

6:24

failure has difference the sure

6:26

you like we will polar ice and the barriers

6:29

to success can make the advice to fail fast

6:32

you're kind of silly so season the think

6:34

lot of other words fail fast specific

6:37

play michelle, we we

6:39

need people trying to rewrite that failure

6:42

mantra to fit the places they live from

6:45

mexico city lagos to

6:47

toronto to tokyo story

6:50

that that begins with one drunken night night if a a gabi

6:52

and few spirits that ends up up sparking a

6:55

that global movement

7:01

rough translation back after

7:03

this this break, the

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following message comes from n npr sponsor

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rei chief customer officer ben

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steel shares, the the importance of of their

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and participation in the the outdoors but but if if you you

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class and and power have always been the

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center of of the the biggest conflict in american

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colors the the new series from code, switched

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to npr takes you you to to the front lines of that

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struggle will explode how one district

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in the most diverse place in the world confronted

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diversity plan that opens up new and

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old

8:00

it just feed we're back

8:02

with rough translation of gregory water

8:04

not long after he discovered the word

8:06

entrepreneur in panama

8:08

the baby toro found himself in mexico city

8:11

and their the entrepreneurial scene

8:13

was just getting started that was a very

8:15

small group of , maybe

8:18

hundred people couple of hundred people wow

8:20

that's my job that like people who call themselves

8:22

entrepreneurs it was a tiny group this tiny

8:24

group saw themselves as different than that

8:26

thousands tens of thousands of people in mexico

8:28

city with started their own businesses obviously

8:31

that are amazing entrepreneurs

8:33

in mexico in doing

8:35

more traditional types of businesses the

8:37

weight pepper uses word entrepreneur

8:40

it's people with ideas mostly

8:43

tech ideas who went to scale

8:45

up

8:46

like i'm gonna do the mexican where

8:48

he i'm gonna do their columbia and

8:50

scooter accompanied by then sell those companies

8:53

to the us we you always

8:55

hear the same stories of the

8:59

they

8:59

would take his long walks or mexico city

9:01

wondering what his big idea could be

9:04

finally he came up with it the

9:06

online source of local news that would expose

9:08

corruption and other problems that the mexican

9:11

papers weren't writing about because

9:13

they don't want to cross people in power soap

9:15

pet they would get writers who were citizen

9:17

journalists

9:18

and even up have a had never run paper

9:21

before he was just a kid basically with

9:23

physics degree in had no investors

9:25

know capital except his credit cards he

9:27

managed to get people really excited about

9:29

this idea i started convincing people

9:32

the join the team without salary

9:36

and we started going and going and after

9:38

more than a year to my surprise

9:40

he'd started working we were getting

9:42

to a thousand active

9:45

writers within year they launched hard copy

9:47

the paper that was sold by blind people

9:49

we had a couple of be fully inferred

9:51

guys a or blind

9:54

guys as they prefer and

9:56

i remember we were selling

9:58

enough park hearing

10:00

there's a mix it with it it's i'm

10:02

by the end of day they used to say that the

10:04

wow we have so much money that

10:07

, tried everything get the company to

10:09

make money money tried to sell ads

10:11

start to drum up subscriptions for

10:13

two years he burned through savings max

10:16

that his credit cards until finally

10:18

to tell everyone the ideas flopped

10:20

other writers all the editors ah the web

10:22

designers believed in decision one

10:25

of the blind sellers that she tried cheer

10:27

him up cheer said that it on worried

10:29

he was great that i was getting that higher income

10:31

pod

10:32

okay and then the guy as one

10:34

more thing anyways i was

10:37

getting extorted by

10:39

their street mafias of mexico

10:41

city weights so you are

10:44

you end up realizing you supporting a

10:46

mafia mafia economy

10:49

yet at the other day part of our efforts

10:52

was going to the pocket says

10:54

corrupt people who and damascus

10:58

so i felt like loser

11:00

because i'm a few breeze i decided

11:03

to come here save the world in

11:05

i know realized that i have no

11:07

idea i was doing am

11:10

so it was it was of

11:12

shame i decided to

11:14

put it under the rug try

11:18

to avoid the conversation the

11:20

company organ and , seemed

11:23

familiar to story your dad with piece

11:25

of heavy machinery parked outside he

11:27

doesn't want to talk about exactly and

11:29

my just decided to hide it like

11:32

people with the our what happened the project than

11:34

i would say things that yeah well did

11:36

word but now i'm doing this so then

11:38

did you can have not talked about for

11:41

yeah for at least three years or so than

11:44

and then

11:46

one day we went out for dinner

11:49

it

11:50

was just hang out with friends he's

11:52

out with friends they are drinking having

11:54

many miss colors

11:56

someone said what would happen if we

11:58

shared our fate

12:00

someone as the idea they say hey let's go

12:02

round the table and just share this story of

12:04

our worst failure i thought it was

12:06

like this really weird idea

12:09

assessing seniors failure with

12:11

thing he'd always avoided talking about or

12:15

if he talked about it he would always talk

12:17

about in the context of is present success

12:19

just like he'd read about these stories

12:22

of entrepreneurs in the magazines from silicon

12:24

valley yes i would say things that

12:26

yeah well he didn't work but now i'm doing this

12:28

failure was just a stepping stone

12:30

now his friend telling him now so

12:32

the real story

12:34

because we we had many mysql as

12:36

we said let's try it and

12:39

we shared each one of us our

12:41

most relevant senior that was that

12:43

room

12:44

then it while it became

12:46

these magical conversation because

12:49

we last week

12:52

super funny stories

12:54

and also we cried of

12:56

we've dramatic stories and

12:59

i connected weed

13:02

part of my so that didn't want to

13:04

acknowledge and what did i

13:06

feel like weird

13:10

i mean it it's weird to

13:12

cry in front of your friends for the first

13:14

time your business partners it

13:17

is weird too

13:20

feel these super deep level

13:22

of connection that

13:24

i thought i could only feel with my

13:26

girlfriend for example so

13:29

it felt cathartic in

13:31

cathartic very good way and

13:34

now i can describe it now i can put some

13:36

words that i feel comfortable to

13:38

explain the feeling at that moment

13:40

was just like wow like an open

13:42

mouth of what's happening here this is so powerful

13:45

him

13:46

that we decided to just invite more

13:48

friends to see they also like these

13:51

crazy idea of

13:53

listening to other people failures

13:55

am

13:58

a feminist is see if

14:00

don't want go from our the name is decided

14:02

to give this storytelling that failure there

14:04

was his friend to them came up with the name he went

14:06

to college in the us came we

14:08

were speaking were speaking but he said

14:11

that's of

14:13

we can actually play the name of this night

14:15

or if we do play the name them going

14:17

have to put a big he for explicit on

14:20

the episode it did a word like

14:22

screw up but not screw

14:24

that about so

14:26

that was the one english word he said otherwise

14:29

yep we're very

14:31

cultured people at sister

14:35

may was like a blow this is how it is worth of

14:37

you know mulligan as yes for like on cancer people

14:39

loved it i love hearing these stories

14:42

and they came back for second night

14:44

and then third and in some ways

14:46

this seen it looked like something that you could

14:48

find in the bay area or

14:51

anywhere the telling stories failures become

14:53

trend now so us than a lot of the even the crowd

14:55

that showed up here with their graphic

14:57

tees in their designer eyeglasses

14:59

sipping draft beer they would not seem

15:01

out of place the

15:04

says were trying to do something

15:06

different yeah the silicon valley type

15:08

of conversation is always

15:11

let's talk about failure because it's because taboo

15:13

it's cool to talk about it it's

15:16

tactical right it's about always saying

15:18

it to success you fail

15:20

in this with your rocket five times

15:22

but then you have a billion dollar company and

15:25

you're so successful in

15:27

in the cover of magazines and

15:29

day other type of conversations

15:31

is conversations personal one

15:33

the nights of talking honestly

15:36

about failure they were not just a hit in mexico

15:38

city six months after they started

15:40

that moved to bigger venue

15:42

two months after that they got an email from

15:44

spain spain was a big one

15:47

they wanted start something like this to and

15:49

then other countries in latin america argentina

15:51

exploded columbia and

15:54

then germany the netherlands

15:57

switzerland and their own little bit different

16:01

in nice france there's an expression

16:03

that if you screw ups you can

16:05

we seize the day at the beach

16:08

in tokyo the steaks of admitting

16:10

any kind of failure are much are much

16:13

power mistake long instead that

16:15

who you like we'll tell you what

16:17

can polar ice so just getting

16:19

people to stand up on stage and tell any

16:21

story sell your could feel almost radical

16:24

failure is kind of bomb stone

16:26

in toronto exposed not

16:28

only note how you have failed but how

16:30

your failure has affected others

16:32

my three other leaders are

16:34

there and they're telling me all

16:37

them and same weeks have ended

16:39

the relationship for the significant others

16:41

because they decided that they just didn't have time

16:44

to have relationship and

16:46

i remember hearing than hearing was so sauce

16:49

and was like wow what

16:51

kind of founder am i what kind of leader

16:54

amyas when my whole team

16:56

is not taking care of themselves

16:58

the end up listening to these stories of failure taught

17:01

us to things what is

17:03

that there are a lot ways to

17:05

fail better

17:07

, to take off a celebration is

17:10

going back was anyone super months

17:13

came crashing down for his live

17:15

they were silent after

17:18

it has like abiding

17:19

and second these nights are about a

17:21

lot more than just self reflection and

17:23

catharsis this failure nights around

17:25

the world have

17:30

a much bigger why your kiwi the question

17:33

don't know yet ah

17:35

that's story when rough translation

17:37

returned fire ah

17:41

this message comes from npr sponsor

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the good news is that your business is growing

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learn more visit base camp dot com slash

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and pr

18:11

we're

18:12

back with rough translation of gregory water

18:14

after talking failure nice sounders

18:16

around world we got interested

18:18

in this one city which is what

18:20

the most recent cities to start a

18:22

failure night actually so my

18:24

name is satsuma on that issue

18:26

when fatima learned about pepys project

18:28

she was immediately like we

18:30

need this in lagos in nigeria

18:33

though i were to them and

18:35

, i want to be a part of the group and

18:39

if he wants states as sandy francis agreements

18:42

what started all those years ago in mexico

18:44

city has now become franchise

18:46

each time someone wants to organize failure

18:48

night around world they can pay pepys

18:51

company see

18:52

they get marketing to get training

18:54

how to coach the speakers and

18:57

they get to use the name you know

18:59

screw up that outskirts so

19:02

one of challenge i have

19:04

so people don't like the name of

19:06

for countries like iraq iran

19:08

the

19:09

un the acronyms is

19:11

it special exemption for conservative

19:14

countries if it is the

19:17

get to do that here i'm allowed to

19:19

therefore the seer for one year

19:21

only sees a few and

19:23

the we see how he goes so

19:25

yeah so yeah the failure

19:27

thing is that your main income

19:31

evan and any comments as you and name's

19:34

physicist

19:35

price people ask so how do you think that make

19:37

money from his associates was so angry

19:39

y u s kiwi their courses i don't know

19:41

yes well

19:42

this is his form an interview that amazon

19:45

is printer

19:49

they

19:50

goes in one way is an extremely

19:52

entrepreneurial city i've been there

19:54

i used to be the east africa correspondent for npr

19:57

and i would meet lot of nigerians

19:59

had moved back the spending time in the west

20:01

just start adventure

20:02

the team says that even though lagos

20:04

is a city twenty million people it

20:06

can feel in some ways like a small town

20:09

there's

20:10

all the social pressure from elders

20:12

to follow their path for

20:14

you see honest as a business on your own

20:17

sometimes is deemed as be rude

20:19

and good the economy doesn't even promotes

20:21

you have and business the

20:24

law has this tax the

20:27

delays he said puts on into print is

20:29

seekers thats one day and in next

20:31

me to say that all your sign is is not

20:33

supposed to be there and they are no papa

20:35

laws that will really guide you the

20:38

and then see if anyone prepare for

20:40

this thing sid caesar difficult involvements

20:43

reedy is quite hostile full

20:45

and subpoenas suits wise here

20:48

so how did the sound is connect to you

20:50

then wanting to start tests as

20:52

you and nice in lagos so

20:56

it wasn't like

20:57

support group who fall

20:59

into printers then

21:01

give an incense universities

21:04

shared a house seems one as soon

21:06

city they agreed jam but

21:08

half of like you but i'm bread yeah my

21:10

jam my mother is american

21:12

and so some of the of guess so easy jam

21:15

growing up to twenty quid gems rebels

21:17

a dream because forty to sixty percent

21:19

of fruits and vegetables goes away for sucre

21:21

a year or to see go

21:23

to registration and now we invested

21:25

in all the equipment and then once you finish

21:27

getting or the license but as you know in nigeria

21:31

we have monopolistic com industry

21:33

in the industry of sugar so the

21:35

surprised when from six thousand and mary back

21:38

to twelve thousand my or a bag of

21:40

a nice i would approach one of the monopolists

21:43

ask what happened the government's

21:45

enable dance with as story for another

21:47

the then the

21:50

whimpering company so yes of would jump

21:52

in bottles for you have sally some it's a

21:54

one million jars and we could not from

21:56

it's a one million jars so we started going

21:58

to dump sites around lagos

22:00

the basically collection jars

22:02

and we were so realizing them on recycling

22:05

them for they'll be completed all the then

22:07

site and got all the jobs that were possibly

22:09

than were no more jazz available for

22:12

the color of the story he's not someone

22:14

from a tiny town with big dreams of jam

22:17

before dd new at new at her jam

22:19

company see graduated harvard

22:21

business school and she was consultant

22:24

for mackenzie also the ford foundation

22:26

and she worked with world bank and

22:28

she'd found it a successful ngo then

22:31

someone who believes that life is short

22:33

so have to make a difference

22:35

dt is part of certain stratum

22:37

of nigerian society as

22:39

are most of people in the audience listening

22:42

she does finally make it through all these

22:44

hurdles and she gets the actual

22:46

jam to the customer in

22:49

recycled bottles i bet we

22:51

came so average nigerian

22:53

that pineapple a while more

22:55

my goal of four or five psi

22:57

as as and they said not

22:59

read

23:02

thrive on jammies read

23:05

now strawberry jam okay where'd

23:07

you get strawberries in nigeria

23:09

people didn't buy it because apparently

23:12

the research she made was not

23:14

informed enough the

23:16

ever heard of the fail fast the

23:19

idea from silicon valley

23:21

or any oh yes i am so

23:23

fast feel thought i have i

23:25

in fact this is my friend he says that

23:28

would you feel slow ethan

23:32

they would you do that so

23:34

not he could have other would feel sad

23:38

that sounds like you if you have to wait three hundred sixty

23:40

five days for hey as consider

23:42

registration money they have to fill them cyclones

23:44

is this is it the

23:46

fail fast idea it's as tessa

23:48

your ideas quickly seek move on to something

23:51

new and better the when you listen

23:53

to lot his failure night stories from around the

23:55

world the hear people mired

23:57

in obstacles that they can't do much about

23:59

like iraq or see or corruption the

24:02

premises there was actually the point

24:04

of these days

24:05

he says that even if you live in nigeria

24:08

you may not actually know about all these obstacles

24:11

until you hear these stories

24:12

people he , you know was

24:14

that seen those industries usually on see you

24:17

are a part of it's own see you started

24:19

security don't know know

24:21

the information is notice how the hell out there

24:24

jonathan

24:26

you may because there's no clear information

24:28

on on how you supposed to start business

24:30

or what challenges that you might expect it

24:32

gives us as though transparency

24:34

the friendly as you might

24:36

be to disperse as it always see the great

24:38

amounts are got the one lysis

24:40

it up he dismisses so when

24:42

people come to share this story sometimes

24:44

is when he aware of this issue

24:47

happening

24:48

it sounds like it doesn't matter as much

24:50

if the stories and with success

24:52

or with failure as much

24:54

as they there to peel back the

24:56

curtain on what kind problems

24:58

the government might throw

25:00

at the

25:01

printers in nigeria i think would

25:03

have come to realize is that is not

25:05

about the government's the government

25:08

does reflect the kennel people that we are

25:12

the guy debbie the do a job

25:14

because he just

25:17

wanted pay a bribe janet

25:21

and

25:22

right so how does standing

25:24

up and telling a story of failure a know

25:26

as much support as you get from that as

25:28

much inspiration that

25:30

, not there to listen to as he's not

25:32

changing so sad as

25:35

sad you know who

25:37

my cope and my praises

25:40

everybody that comes see

25:42

him is affected and the

25:44

affect next super that meets and interacts which

25:46

and the affect the was city ripple goes round

25:48

read us what i think

25:50

the corrupt of is he will get message

25:52

somewhere he will because

25:55

his daughter isn't it will

25:58

be affected in the system

26:01

that daughter or that nice to

26:03

twenty years ago might have been going after government

26:05

job or less the country she's

26:08

now in nigeria trying start a business

26:10

and running it all those obstacles

26:13

yeah you hear the stories

26:15

says due to the next person

26:17

the buttons intrigued and he said

26:19

it's those it here that person's story and

26:21

before you know his subconscious they see this planted

26:24

well connected one way or the other

26:34

the

26:34

baby toro the college

26:36

physicists from mexico city whose

26:39

own entrepreneurial failure lead to all

26:41

these failure nights around the world he

26:43

, now heard thousands of failure stories

26:46

from places where the odds truly stacked

26:48

against entrepreneurs and

26:50

pay them think back to parts of his father story

26:53

seeing his failures in different light

26:56

like that embarrassing time that his dad

26:58

might have attempted to strangle the bank

27:00

manager got a little bit violent

27:02

sexist or physically with the manager

27:04

of bank there's story behind that the

27:07

government approved his mon in

27:09

dollars and then and then

27:11

devalued the pacers which felt

27:13

like some kind of contact the dead

27:15

is dead owed went from thousands dollars

27:18

to millions

27:19

imagine when he said government's own

27:21

band the only bank am

27:23

the only person that can grant you

27:25

alone or what about adventure

27:28

with pothole machine has bothered

27:30

piss their plan to the city officials to

27:32

fix the city's potholes forget

27:34

and they said and stupid

27:37

we , the portal to consider next year

27:39

when they just said that your dad they just

27:41

tell them it's yeah because for

27:43

their government that business

27:45

sexually how did but homes because then

27:47

they can give up bunch of contracts to their

27:49

coffins and with a construction

27:52

companies companies make a lot money when

27:54

his dad sells helpless his dad

27:56

silent about it and so pepe

27:59

started the still

28:00

nice to break that silence

28:02

that taboo and make entrepreneurs

28:05

feel little more prepared for the bumpy road

28:07

more emotionally resilient to start

28:09

business in place like mexico because

28:11

you know also mexico you

28:14

well anywhere in the developing

28:16

economies you understand that

28:18

the kids not final as with winston

28:20

churchill would say it because

28:23

there will be something always

28:26

from a changing government to

28:28

an earthquake hit to agree last

28:31

two whatever it is got it sounds

28:33

like experience you want people to come away with

28:36

is that if they have

28:38

lost the not a loser

28:41

if they failed it's not because they didn't

28:43

do know follow their passion yes

28:46

exactly am i even

28:48

liked to diva

28:50

got it i like all don't

28:52

follow your passion don't value of as

28:55

yeah it's have because of that

28:57

simplistic message of ah yes follow

28:59

your passion work hard then optimistic

29:01

message of entrepreneurial success

29:04

that gets exported around world

29:06

that is no more wary that i

29:08

think that when you

29:10

had the idea that i had a

29:12

witch's these can be done

29:15

just because of hard work is

29:19

dangerous his adventure story to be honest

29:21

because it opens up

29:23

north for change

29:33

next week on at work we had to the

29:35

office in metaverse best

29:37

play in many of us we're going

29:39

to work as an overtime it's really

29:41

myself it's my virtual

29:43

me how the masks we were at work and

29:45

changes that next week on rough

29:47

translation

29:51

the are paid for this episode was produced by

29:53

cassidy only edited by bruce auster

29:55

and mastered by just nibble the original

29:58

show was produced by just jang autumn

30:00

bars or editor was miriam the

30:02

kids thanks

30:04

karen duffin alex goldmark bryan or

30:06

that and sana kasi kasi and the

30:08

many failure night founders that spoke with fatima

30:11

ladie you marsha druk or marisa

30:13

sanchez and mami takashi you

30:16

confine links to all the failure stories

30:18

that we played from toronto and

30:20

legos and others on our website

30:22

that and pier to or played

30:24

prograf translation jan

30:26

ellis composed music for asha marisa

30:28

scored this episode with mastering by and

30:31

huger our supervising producers the

30:33

arsene from or senior supervising producer

30:35

supervising brus oster and pier senior

30:37

vice president for programming is on druk

30:40

i'm gregory warner back next week

30:42

with more at work on rough

30:44

translation

30:55

this message comes from npr sponsor

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