0:01

I'm fascinated with entrepreneurs

0:01

and small business owners.

0:06

Plus, I love baseball.

0:08

Every show I sit down with a small

0:11

business owner and we discuss

0:11

their running the bases of

0:15

entrepreneurship. We throw the ball around on

0:19

strategy, management, execution

0:19

and innovation.

0:22

Plus, a little fun baseball tug.

0:25

Hey, thanks for joining us today.

0:28

Settelaine, grab your cracker

0:28

jacks and you know what they Okay,

0:32

it's a great day for a ball game.

0:35

Hey, this is Randy Rodi with running the bases with small

0:37

businesses. Glad to have you on.

0:40

Hey, today's guest is a serial

0:42

storyteller. I don't think we've had anybody

0:47

quite like this before. Growing up, he loved humor,

0:51

telling stories and exaggerating

0:51

his real life experiences as a

0:56

middle child trying to stand out.

0:58

He grew up in a home surrounded by

1:02

books from his English teacher

1:02

mom, which only increased his love

1:05

of stories and he leveraged his

1:05

abilities into a marketing

1:08

communications and public

1:08

relations career, then later as a

1:12

college professor and corporate

1:12

facilitator.

1:15

Now he teaches people how to more

1:15

intentionally tell stories that

1:21

teach, lead, sell and inspire to

1:21

accomplish business and personal

1:25

goals. He is the co-author of the best

1:29

selling book, Master Storytelling,

1:29

how to turn your experiences into

1:34

stories that teach, lead and

1:34

inspire and he's the co-creator of

1:38

the Master Storytelling workshop.

1:41

Leveraging a 20 year career in

1:43

corporate communication and a

1:43

subsequent 15 years of corporate

1:48

facilitating training, he has a

1:48

lively engaging style and packs it

1:52

with purposeful, impactful learning. That's mouthful of peas right

1:54

there.

1:57

When he's not training, speaking,

1:57

coaching or creating new content

2:01

is likely hiking or snowshoeing in

2:01

the mountains, playing the piano,

2:07

bragging about his grandchildren

2:07

or another version of

2:11

Storytelling, writing children's books. Please welcome to the show from

2:11

the great state of Utah, Mark

2:16

Carpenter. Mark, welcome. Thank Randy.

2:18

Boy, that's a long intro to get to

2:24

who I am. That's a pretty complete

2:27

background I am. That's too.

2:29

I'm telling my staff, they do a

2:29

great job of cooking this stuff

2:34

up. I'm like Utah again. If I had to, aside from, so we're

2:36

based in Ohio and we have a lot of

2:40

local businesses and entrepreneurs

2:40

from Ohio on the show, but if we

2:44

probably went through, I would

2:44

swear Utah is probably solidly

2:46

second. We've had more guests from Utah

2:49

than I bet I could rattle off

2:49

eight of them that I know about

2:54

the top of my head. It's There's quite a bit of

3:00

entrepreneurship in this area. I think it stems from some of the

3:03

tech layovers or crossovers that

3:03

we get from Silicon Valley and

3:06

associated companies with those

3:06

and then people get their own

3:10

ideas and want to go out on their

3:10

own.

3:13

There's quite a bit of here.

3:16

You're right. I'm telling you, we've had some

3:17

fascinating terrific guests.

3:20

I hope anime may be expecting that

3:20

you'll love up to the legacy here

3:23

of Utah. Now the pressure's on, right? So listen, I'm really intrigued by

3:26

this whole thing of storytelling

3:30

and I'm going to hit you up first.

3:33

I'm going to put you on the spot.

3:36

Can you give us a story of your

3:36

exaggerated real life experience

3:41

growing up as a middle shot?

3:41

Red that.

3:44

I'm like, what, Sir, let's hear that. That sounds kind of Now the

3:46

pressure's on, you, some of the

3:48

stories that I used to tell to my

3:48

kids, I was just having a

3:56

conversation with my daughter

3:56

who's 29 years old now about

4:00

stories that we used to tell around the campfire and when we were out hiking and just in family

3:39

situations.

4:04

And the stories she always remembers are the stories that I would tell about my brother who's

4:06

a year older than me.

4:10

And my brother claims that I

4:10

exaggerate them more.

4:13

In fact, I was telling one of

4:13

those stories.

4:15

My brother says, no, I think

4:15

you're exaggerating that.

4:18

My mom happened to be in the room too. And she said, you kind of lived

4:20

your life in exaggeration.

4:22

So I don't know if it is that

4:22

sometimes about my brother and I

4:26

remember on a snowy day, they

4:26

actually canceled school because

4:29

it snowed so much. I was in junior high.

4:31

My brother was a year old, he was

4:31

in high school.

4:33

And I was sitting in our living

4:33

room and I was watching the snow

4:36

fall. My brother didn't know that it was

4:40

going to snow that day. So he'd ridden his And he played

4:44

the trombone in the marching band. And he's, so he's got his trombone

4:47

strapped as a bungee cord in the

4:47

back of his bike.

4:49

And he's coming down the hill, becomes to our house. And then I'm watching him and he's

4:51

frantically pumping the brakes

4:53

with his hands, trying to get that

4:53

bike loaded down, but he's got no

4:58

friction because of the snow

4:58

that's on the ground.

5:00

And I'm just watching him come fly

5:00

it into our front yard.

5:03

He goes one way, the bike goes

5:03

another way, the trombone goes a

5:06

third direction. He gets up, all covered with snow,

5:09

stands up, kicks the bike three times. And the average guy that does

5:11

everything up and comes in.

5:13

And I'm sitting there just

5:13

laughing at him because I know

5:16

that he didn't know that I was

5:16

watching it.

5:18

Now, the point that I like to make

5:18

with this story is that years

5:22

later I confessed to him that I

5:22

tell that story to my He looks at

5:27

me recollection of that ever happening. And I'm like, what are you talking

5:29

about? I've got this clear picture of

5:31

this happening. And he says, I making it all up.

5:34

And I thought about that more. And the point that came out to me

5:35

was, you know, that's a great

5:38

indication of his That he had this

5:38

big crash, he gets up, gets his

5:42

frustrations out, kicks in the

5:42

bike, and And he And I think

5:47

that's a great business lesson in

5:47

there.

5:49

But when we have those crash and

5:49

burn moments, they're painful in

5:53

the moment. Like from it, and that.

5:57

I was wondering, there's a good

5:57

moral.

5:59

It's coming in here. This is great.

6:02

No, I think you're absolutely right. It's kind of funny that you

6:03

mentioned about the visualization.

6:08

I was literally just having this

6:08

conversation last night with my

6:12

wife. And we were talking about memory.

6:16

And she's like, do you remember we

6:16

had this conversation?

6:20

And that's not a baited question,

6:20

like, oh my god, here it comes.

6:25

I'm like, I don't. And then she goes on, like, you

6:34

know, I was thinking about how do

6:34

you remember things?

6:37

And she's like, I remember things

6:37

mentioned something.

6:39

And I visualize having this conversation. She goes, I didn't see the picture

6:41

of it.

6:44

I'm like, I don't do that.

6:47

I just kind of recall. It's like, oh, that's, you know,

6:49

two plus two is five, right?

6:53

And this comes up. That was my attempt to be funny.

6:57

And so I don't like you were just

6:57

saying, like, I have this visual

7:03

memory. And I just find that interesting. You use that phrase because we

7:05

were just talking about that and

7:09

about how people, you know, are

7:09

different about how they pull back

7:16

memories and how they hold on to things. And that's another great lesson

7:18

that comes from that story that I

7:21

just shared. Yeah. Is that I had this clear memory of

7:23

it.

7:25

He And he's convinced it didn't

7:25

happen.

7:28

I'm convinced it did. We do.

7:31

We remember things differently. And we remember things in

7:35

different ways. This happens with my wife and I

7:39

all the time too. And by the way, you're right.

7:42

Do you remember when we talked

7:42

about is like, right there next

7:46

to, does this dress like making

7:46

look bad?

7:49

You know, in terms of the terrible

7:49

questions that you want to hear

7:53

from your life partner. Yeah, look bad? You know, in terms of the terrible

7:55

questions that you want to hear

7:59

from your life partner.

8:01

Yeah, there's no good answer But my wife and I go to someplace and

8:03

she'll mention somebody's name and

8:08

I'll say, now who is that?

8:08

Well, she was wearing this and

8:10

this and this and this. I'm like, no, you do what Tell me

8:13

what this person looks like. How tall is she?

8:16

How long is your hair?

8:16

What color is her hair?

8:18

That's going to give me the better visual image. Right.

8:20

But for her, it's always what they were wearing. So it's just always one of those funny things that we look at things differently. Right. And I think that's important to

8:23

remember, particularly in

8:23

businesses, you're as you're

8:25

building a team. Right. In fact, if I can throw in a

8:26

little baseball story here, oh,

8:30

love it. Yeah. Makes this point as well. Warmest up. Yeah.

8:32

When my oldest son was six years

8:35

old, I think it was five or six

8:35

years old.

8:38

We got him into a tea ball team. Okay.

8:40

Tea ball, of course, is your lead into baseball. They hit the ball off the little

8:42

tea.

8:45

There's Warmest up. And the outfield is basically the

8:47

edge of the infield because that's

8:47

as far as the ball will ever go.

8:51

Right. So you have this cluster of nine

8:55

kids in all in the infield,

8:55

basically, to field the ball.

9:00

Well, my team is in the field. Our team is out came up.

9:02

The bases were loaded. And this little girl named Kayley

9:06

was standing next to the pitcher's

9:06

man.

9:08

And I said, Kayley, Kayley, if the

9:08

ball play, touch home play, and

9:12

we'll She nods, she nods. Okay, okay, okay.

9:15

And I knew that this was going to

9:15

happen because that's She so

9:17

great. She ran right to home plate, stepped on home plate, looked up

9:05

at me so up the ball.

9:22

And I couldn't get mad this her for her. I just told her to run to home

9:24

plate and touch on plate.

9:29

I assumed she knew she had to pick

9:29

up the ball.

9:34

in business? Sure. We give people instructions

9:34

because it's clear in our mind

9:38

what all those steps are between

9:38

the vague instructions that we

9:42

give. Right. And then we get frustrated when

9:42

they didn't follow our

9:45

instructions exactly. We about how they think about

9:50

things. How does their memory work like we

9:54

were just talking about?

9:54

What do they actually have in

9:56

their background and experience?

9:56

So we're trying to explain

10:02

something to them. We need to explain it from their

10:05

perspective, not ours. Right. you just did there.

10:08

By the way. You lead us into this great story.

10:16

I'm really like affectionate, right?

10:16

I mean, just like, oh, little kids

10:19

playing T-Vall and my little girl. And she's right.

10:21

And then boom.

10:23

And then you tie it in with a

10:28

great kind of business lesson. That's perfect. That's good storytelling right

10:30

there. So you were like leading by

10:30

example on this whole Well, and

10:34

that's one of the reasons that

10:34

wrote this book is.

10:38

I told me one thing you need to

10:38

write a book about how you just

10:42

turn everyday experiences into real life lessons. And my initial response was, it's

10:44

not a book.

10:46

That's just what you do. Right. And she's not.

10:48

People don't know how to do this.

10:51

And that was really the genesis of

10:51

the book.

10:56

But my contention is, and this is

10:56

what we say in the book is your

11:03

everyday experiences. Have some of the best lessons

11:07

embedded in them. We love stories because we live

11:11

stories. Right. That's what our lives are, just a

11:11

collection of little stories that

11:14

are together. And the key thing is to think

11:17

about, so what do I learn from

11:17

that Tell people who say to me, I

11:23

don't have anything important

11:23

enough happening to me to tell a

11:25

story about it. I tell them, think of anytime you have any kind of an emotional

11:27

reaction to be frustration.

11:30

It could be joy. It could be anger.

11:33

It could be annoyance. It could be happiness.

11:37

Whatever it happens to be, when you have an emotional reaction to something, there's some kind of

11:38

lesson embedded in that. those moments because those are

11:40

going to be the stories or the

11:44

experiences you can turn into

11:44

stories that can teach an

11:47

important principle or make an

11:47

important point.

11:49

I that. That I love how you're just tying

11:53

that in all about the emotional response. And I completely agree because

11:55

through my conversation with my

11:58

wife, and by the way, we didn't

11:58

even mention that, oh, I got this

12:02

storyteller guy coming on here. We didn't even talk about that.

12:06

But through that conversation and through this discussion now, it's just reinforces, I guess, as well

12:07

kind of my thought around the idea

12:10

that, you know, if you've got a,

12:10

you know, this visual imagery that

12:16

you're creating. And you're like the example that

12:19

you just gave, which was fabulous,

12:19

the T-Ball experience.

12:21

You're creating this visual imagery. I'm sitting here listening to it

12:23

like, oh, you have a, because my

12:28

daughter played T-Ball my kids play, right? And so I'm like, I remember that

12:30

was great.

12:33

You laid it. I was there with you on meaning

12:38

then of the story and then when

12:38

you get to it, when you're talking

12:42

about and relating it to practical

12:42

kind of business experience and

12:46

the lesson there, it actually is

12:46

going to stick, I think, with the

12:49

listener, with your intended audience, much better. And I think they'll be able to

12:51

recall that purpose in that intent

12:55

at a much higher level than

12:55

probably if you just went to the

13:01

people and said, listen, this is

13:01

what you have to do.

13:04

We are a storytelling species. Yeah.

13:06

This is, this is how we have

13:06

evolved as community over time.

13:10

You know, you think of some

13:10

species of animals on this planet.

13:14

I'll go to a giraffe is born.

13:18

First thing that their mom does is

13:21

get up on your feet and get moving, dude. Yeah.

13:23

You know, and we as a human species, we don't have that

13:24

capacity with our young ones.

13:27

We rely on community to survive as

13:27

a species.

13:32

And story is the way that we build

13:32

that community.

13:34

I loved how you said you could,

13:34

you could picture your own

13:39

experiences with kids and T-Ball

13:39

as I was telling that story.

13:43

That story was my experience, but

13:43

it became a vicarious experience

13:47

for you. All of a sudden you were there

13:51

with me standing by my side in

13:51

that story.

13:54

And because it connects to your

13:54

life to it.

13:57

And Right, Mandy, you're going to

13:57

remember it better because of that

14:00

connection that it made into your

14:00

life experience.

14:04

And that's the power of story that

14:04

I think that we don't often

14:08

realize in a business setting. We think, no, as a business

14:12

person, I need to share my facts

14:12

and figures and the numbers out

14:20

here. And I need to give features and benefits of my products or

14:22

services. I don't have time to tell a story,

14:23

but the story is actually gonna

14:27

give you a shortcut to connect to

14:27

that people.

14:30

Well, why do people buy from

14:30

somebody else?

14:33

They buy from people that they

14:33

know trust in life.

14:35

Well, let's storytelling going to do. It's gonna help people know you

14:37

trust you and like you more.

14:40

And so there's great power in

14:40

story and in a business Yeah, that

14:44

is terrific. Good stuff. This is a good point in here,

14:46

because you're just dropping all

14:49

kinds of great bombs here that

14:49

high value.

14:52

You so graciously have offered up

14:52

for listeners, they can get your

14:55

ebook that you put together, the

14:55

master storytelling book that I

15:02

mentioned in the intro. They can go to your website

15:04

master-storytelling.com, forward slash podcast gift. I'll have that link case you're

15:06

memory is that's it.

15:09

I didn't tell a great story around

15:09

it.

15:12

Well, I'll have that link in

15:12

there, but you're offering a free

15:15

ebook, your master storytelling

15:15

ebook to the listeners.

15:17

I thank you so much for that. That is very generous.

15:19

I just think because you're

15:19

telling great stories and you're

15:23

like relating great content there. I'm like, oh my gosh, people gotta

15:27

go grab this thing. So go there, I'll have it info in

15:31

the show notes. So be sure to go check that out.

15:35

So you were in the corporate

15:35

world.

15:38

I'm gonna kind of dance through

15:38

time a little bit because I wanna

15:41

hear your story about how you came

15:41

to be where you are right now.

15:45

You were in the corporate world

15:45

for a number of years, I think 20,

15:50

and then doing various kinds of

15:50

marketing, public relations, kinds

15:52

of things. And at some point you said, hey,

15:57

I'm gonna step out.

16:02

I'm gonna do my own thing.

16:05

I'm gonna do, you went into your

16:05

taught at college, you started

16:11

doing some of those facilitated

16:11

training kinds of events, I'm sure

16:18

I'm probably doing, working with

16:18

companies.

16:21

This is what you do now.

16:23

How did you make that leap? What was it that you said, you

16:25

know, I wanna do something

16:28

different or I wanna do what I'm

16:28

doing in a different way, still

16:33

the same thing, maybe, I don't

16:33

know, when I hear your story.

16:35

But how did you come to that point? How did you know now is the time

16:37

to do that?

16:40

To see how does this podcast run?

16:40

That's a lot, that could be a very

16:43

long story, Randy. And there's a lot of components involved in that.

16:46

So I'll give you this short

16:50

version because I don't want your

16:50

audience to check out on this.

16:56

But yeah, I spent 20 years in

16:56

corporate marketing and

17:00

communications, public relations,

17:00

10 years with the bank, 10 years

17:03

with some high tech companies,

17:03

with some software developers.

17:06

And from all the way from like a

17:06

20% company to 12,000 people

17:11

companies that I work with in.

17:14

I always had a little bit of this

17:16

entrepreneurial bent. I also had a little bit of this

17:18

teaching bent embedded in me. In the intro, you mentioned my mom

17:21

was a school teacher. And I always had a little bit of

17:26

that teacher in me, I think

17:26

genetically, both my sisters or

17:30

school teachers, my brother who

17:30

wrecked on the bike, he's a

17:32

computer engineer, but now he does

17:32

math tutoring on the side as well.

17:35

Oh nice. I have nieces and nephews, I have

17:39

two children who are school

17:39

teachers, so kind of all around

17:42

me. So I always had that desire. The way that I transitioned into

17:43

what I'm doing now is I'm here to

17:47

a neighbor. I didn't know I'm super well at

17:50

the time, but he came to me, he's

17:50

had some content that he wanted to

17:57

bring into the company that I was

17:57

currently with.

17:59

And so I helped him get the right

17:59

connections and I set into his, in

18:04

his first pilot class that he did

18:04

with our company.

18:06

And as I stepped there and I

18:06

watched him, I said, this is such

18:10

great stuff and I would love to be

18:10

able to give this to people too.

18:15

I would love to be able to do what

18:15

could be a very long story, Randy.

18:22

And so that was kind of the

18:22

opening of the door for me to say,

18:26

this is a different path that I

18:26

could go on.

18:30

And to make this longer story

18:30

about a two year period transpired

18:33

there where I kept bugging them

18:33

that I wanted to get into what he

18:37

was doing and the transition came

18:37

about.

18:40

And here I am, transition from

18:40

teaching other people's content,

18:44

which I still do some to creating

18:44

my own content and teaching that

18:47

with master storytelling. But I realized that through the

18:50

course of that, through by

18:50

marketing communications career.

18:52

And teaching is an adjunct at a

18:52

course What did I do to stand out?

18:57

What did I do to try to get my

18:57

point across?

19:00

It was telling If you think about

19:00

the teachers that you had,

19:02

particularly in subjects that like

19:02

history, I used to hate history,

19:04

because I had history teachers who

19:04

would teach me in terms of here

19:07

are the dates and the names and

19:07

the facts and the figures you need

19:10

to memorize. That was boring and repetitive to

19:13

me and not fun. But when I had somebody start

19:16

introducing to me, here is the

19:16

story of why this piece of history

19:18

came about. I would have affected those

19:20

people. It had the same impact as me

19:23

telling the story about T-Ball to you. I could put myself into their

19:25

lives and go, yeah, I would have a

19:28

struggle with that too. And all of a sudden history became

19:31

a And so that's how I developed

19:31

into this teacher and advocate for

19:34

intentional storytelling. Not storytelling just to share an

19:38

experience or just to entertain,

19:38

but storytelling with that purpose

19:41

to teach, lead, sell, and inspire. So I'm thinking then as well and

19:45

what you do. You work with companies as well or

19:49

small businesses or whoever

19:49

individuals even and help them

19:51

relate storytelling to their

19:51

business, maybe managing their

19:54

employees. I'm thinking as well and maybe you

19:57

do this, I don't know.

20:00

Help people craft their story so

20:03

as they're going out. So when you were talking about the

20:08

individual that came to your

20:08

company that you were working with

20:11

at that point and you

20:11

participating in his class, I

20:15

would, in my mind, I was thinking,

20:15

oh, and he was going to say, I

20:21

could help him repackage and be

20:21

much more effective by, you know,

20:25

I could teach him this skill. That's what I thought But I'm

20:28

wondering is that what you do some

20:28

of that as well?

20:31

I'm curious on how you're working

20:31

with companies because so

20:35

intrigued. And I'm a big fan of the

20:37

storytelling. I think it is incredibly meaningful and impactful and

20:39

sticks with people.

20:42

So a dig that you're doing, man.

20:44

And it's stickiness really is the power in story.

20:47

And we've talked about that about how much that sticks in your

20:49

resume, a little brainworm that

20:51

just holds on to you.

20:53

And the people we work with, there's several different

20:55

audiences that we work with.

20:58

One of them we work with a lot is

20:58

sales.

21:02

Because sales people are always

21:02

trying to make connections with

21:07

their customers. And so I'm not talking about the

21:10

person that loads the vending machine. I guess essentially they're in

21:11

sales.

21:15

But anytime you have to talk to

21:15

people, it's those kind of sales

21:20

professionals that we're working with. And to get them beyond, here are

21:21

the facts and figures, the

21:28

pricing, the features, the

21:28

benefits of our product.

21:31

You should But if you can instead

21:31

say, here's the product.

21:34

Here's what it's about.

21:36

But let me tell you how it can

21:39

help you. I worked with my customer Randy.

21:41

And he used our product because he

21:41

was running into this problem.

21:44

And by getting our product or

21:44

implementing our service into his

21:48

business, he was able to achieve this result. That's what I want to be able to

21:50

help you with.

21:53

Because as I'm telling that story,

21:53

my customer sitting there

21:56

listening and going, yeah, I'm

21:56

kind of And so I could get the

22:00

same benefits that Randy's getting. So if we can tell that in the form

22:01

of a story, it's going to be much

22:06

more impactful and memorable for

22:06

And let them make the case to get

22:10

the budget for it.

22:13

It's interesting. Heard this recently, people buy on

22:14

a motion and they justify on And

22:19

so if you can get people into the

22:19

story, they'll get that emotional

22:23

connection that they want to buy on. And then they'll make the

22:24

justification with the facts and

22:28

figures that you give them to But

22:28

that's one of the key audiences we

22:32

work with. Another one is leaders and particularly emerging leaders.

22:35

Somebody's first put into a leadership position and they're

22:36

taught how to run their budget and

22:40

how to do their annual performance reviews and things like that. But they don't know how to lead an

22:42

inspire a team and stories are the

22:46

way to lead an inspire a team.

22:49

The lesson I shared with you from

22:52

the T-Ball experience that I had,

22:52

that's a great lesson for and

22:55

thinking in terms of what do my

22:55

people actually know, not what do

23:00

I know and they should know that

23:00

too.

23:03

And so those kinds of stories can

23:03

teach lead an inspire your team as

23:07

a I love it. Take it is completely fascinating.

23:10

And completely agree on the

23:10

emotional aspect about the lever,

23:13

so to speak, what people buy an

23:13

emotion.

23:16

and then justify it with the logic. I've had this conversation with a

23:18

few other guests and kind of

23:21

similar vein, but we talk about a

23:21

cell the dream because it is

23:25

emotional. Don't get stuck into the weeds

23:28

about, this is what we're gonna

23:28

do, we're gonna do this, blah,

23:32

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but

23:32

like you want this, is what we

23:36

will do. Because if we do this, this will be your life, right?

23:38

That we're selling, selling, we're

23:42

gonna kind of make that Then once

23:42

you have that, then you're, I

23:47

think you're, then it's your sale

23:47

to lose at that point, is what I

23:53

kind of believe. But of one of the most common

23:57

sales transactions there are for a

23:57

lot of, at least here in North

24:00

America, buying a car. Yeah. And when you go, when you go to

24:02

buy a car, hate No, we all do, but

24:07

this is why. Because sales people that auto

24:10

dealers haven't learned No, They need? How big a car do you need?

24:12

What kind of car do you want?

24:15

They go to that instead of what is

24:15

this car gonna do for Do you want

24:20

a car that's gonna just get a

24:20

point A and point B?

24:23

Well, let's get you something

24:23

really economical, you might gonna

24:25

save money on. But what are your desires?

24:28

Because that might be, I want a

24:28

car that I can feel super

24:34

comfortable in, that helps me feel

24:34

confident, hey, now you're selling

24:37

the dream. You're selling the emotional

24:39

aspect of that car. To a lot of people don't buy cars

24:43

just for the functionality. They buy it for the image, for the

24:49

prestige, for wanting to, and even

24:49

needing to drive in a long

25:03

commute. And so if you can get to that need, that sales gonna be a lot easier. And you're gonna stand out from

25:03

other people who are doing the

25:06

same thing, because they're back

25:06

there doing features and benefits

25:12

and So fascinating. I'm fascinated by this, and I know

25:15

you've touched on the emotional,

25:15

the logic, but I think in the

25:17

notes that I have in front, you

25:17

also kind of roll through some

25:21

aspects, kind of around the

25:21

scientific data that supports

25:24

storytelling and why it's important. We have some time here before we

25:25

get into the 17th inning stretch.

25:30

I'd love to hear it, bring this to

25:30

life, right?

25:34

The science and data behind storytelling. we've talked a little bit about

25:36

how storytelling connects us as

25:39

people, and how it draws us in.

25:41

And that is now very

25:43

science-based. I mean, we can feel it. We sense it intuitively.

25:47

It's a great researcher, Dr. Paul

25:49

Zach, at Claremont Graduate University, and he has done research around the chemical

25:51

changes that happened within us

25:55

was we're And there's three

25:55

chemical reactions or brain

25:58

reactions that go on, as you hear

25:58

a well told story.

26:04

Now, I'm going to go back to that

26:04

T-Ball story that I told to

26:08

connect this with you.

26:10

Is that the first one is we get an

26:14

increase of oxytocin. Oxytocin is a trust hormone. It makes me feel like I can trust

26:15

you. It makes me feel like I can relate

26:17

to you.

26:19

And you got an increase of

26:19

oxytocin as I was telling that

26:22

story about T-Ball because you

26:22

could relate to it.

26:24

That's where you can stand there

26:24

beside me and you're seeing the

26:28

T-Ball game from your perspective

26:28

and your life's experience.

26:31

All of a sudden, we're the same

26:31

person.

26:33

We're not the same person

26:33

necessarily, but we can relate to

26:37

each other. That builds The second thing that

26:40

happens is there's an increase in

26:40

cortisol as you get some conflict

26:43

in the story or some surprise that

26:43

comes out of that story.

26:46

When I related to you, she ran to

26:46

home plate.

26:49

She's touched home plate. She stopped on home plate.

26:51

And you were building up there and

26:51

then I said, and she never picked

27:00

up the ball. Also, and you go, oh my gosh.

27:03

How did they, yeah. And it's bringing that little

27:06

spark of cortisol that's now gonna

27:06

heighten your attention because

27:09

you want to know, how did I as a

27:09

coach react to Did I yell at this

27:18

And then you get the third thing,

27:18

which is an increase in dopamine.

27:21

When you come to that satisfactory

27:21

resolution of my realization that

27:24

I didn't tell her what to do,

27:24

that's on me.

27:29

That's not on her. And you of satisfaction from the

27:33

lesson that comes from that. Right. And so you see how it happened

27:34

now, but you didn't know that, oh,

27:38

I can feel this different chemical

27:38

change going on in my brain.

27:43

It just happens very naturally,

27:43

but it's a very, very research

27:47

base now that storytelling has a

27:47

powerful impact on us because of

27:52

those reactions that happened

27:52

within our It makes sense because

27:56

as you were going through all of

27:56

those phases, I'm thinking, yes,

27:58

exactly. I felt Not just emotionally, but certainly motions are chemical,

28:00

they're electrical, they're, yeah,

28:03

I don't know, certainly, yes, it

28:03

makes sense.

28:05

All why- There's why- There's a

28:05

bunch of other researches, not

28:08

quite as deeply geeky on the

28:08

chemicals that go on in us, but

28:11

just about how stories help us to remember things better. Sure.

28:13

There was a great research study where they put students in three

28:14

groups, college students in three

28:18

groups. One of them, they just got the information.

28:20

So it was just, here's an information dump that we want you

28:22

to remember.

28:25

The second group got charts and

28:25

graphs along with the information.

28:29

And the third group was given the

28:29

information in the form of a

28:35

story. then they came back a couple of

28:37

weeks later and they checked to

28:37

see how much and how well they

28:42

remembered. That was the thing they were

28:44

really that those first two groups remembered roughly the same with roughly the amount of accuracy,

28:46

which surprised me.

28:48

I thought that the charts and

28:48

graphs group would have it have a

28:51

boost, but they were about the same. storytelling group remember more

28:52

information and remember it more accurately, they actually found

28:54

the information more credible than

28:56

the first two groups. more another great business

28:59

implication of the power of story. People are going to remember you

29:02

more. They're going to remember it more

29:04

accurately, but they're also going

29:04

to trust you more when they get

29:09

things in the form of a story. I make sense.

29:13

Everything just like, I don't know. You're connecting with me on the

29:15

emotional. I like, oh, yes, I get it.

29:20

And you know, I always, when

29:24

you're talking about that with the

29:24

storytelling piece as well, I

29:28

think the more that you tell a

29:28

story.

29:30

So it related the story about your

29:30

brother and the snow on the bike

29:34

and you know, I could visualize,

29:34

you know, the trombone flying all

29:38

over the story over again, you

29:38

repeat it to other people, then it

29:44

becomes like this legacy. And I think for you probably,

29:50

probably, I don't know if your

29:50

brother ever did, like, oh, yeah,

29:55

I know I got it.

29:59

But it probably just galvanizes

30:01

even more important. why I kind of think it's

30:06

important. My wife and I tell stories to our

30:10

kids about when they were young,

30:10

oh, when we did this, you know,

30:13

because we're trying to engage,

30:13

you know, some of those, whether

30:16

it's traditions that we do as a

30:16

family or things that we've done

30:20

or things that they've done in

30:20

their life, we want them to be

30:24

able to remember I would include

30:24

in that the values that we have as

30:27

a family. Yeah. I actually did a presentation just

30:28

this week with a new organization

30:31

that's that's focusing around intentionally building values within your family.

30:34

let society dictate for your

30:37

family what your values are. You dictate for your family what

30:40

they are and talked about what are

30:40

the stories that we could tell

30:43

within our families based on our

30:43

own experiences, our own shared

30:46

experiences, the family that show

30:46

these are values to us because

30:49

that's going to stick with

30:49

children as they grow older.

30:52

And even as they start out venture

30:52

out on their own, they're going to

30:56

remember those stories and experiences that taught them. These are the values that we have

30:57

kind of harkened back to what you

31:03

said really at the beginning of

31:03

the show where you said we are a

31:09

storytelling species.

31:14

And that is fact right there

31:17

because you think from the very

31:17

early caveman ages, right?

31:20

They're like telling stories on

31:20

the cave walls with their high

31:23

regular effects. I mean, traditions passed orally from generation to generation.

31:25

Yes, we are a storytelling species. So fascinating.

31:27

I love it. All right.

31:30

Well, we're going to get back.

31:32

I want to hear more about you as

31:34

the businessman and the business of storytelling. But Mark, I know I asked you early

31:36

before we hit the record button.

31:41

If you like baseball of do. So where it is that time.

31:45

It's time the seventh inning stretch. Seventh inning stretch, You can't

31:46

see us, but I just did a stretch

31:49

so that I, you know, I'm getting

31:49

ready for I, you know, seventh

31:57

inning stretch here. It's so fun.

32:00

All right. So I do know though, as you

32:03

shared, well, you had a history

32:03

with baseball and then during the

32:06

strike kind of periods of baseball

32:06

history, which I am sure you're

32:10

not the only you can't get

32:10

dissolution and left baseball for

32:14

a while. Hopefully you're coming back. But so baseball and I and I still

32:15

follow it.

32:18

I just don't watch it as don't

32:18

watch it as much as I used to.

32:23

All right. Well, that makes sense.

32:25

do know you and as you shared, you

32:25

have the salt lake bees.

32:28

You're like, are they triple A, A

32:28

winner?

32:31

Yes, yes, the triple A Yeah, of

32:31

the angels angels.

32:34

The Los Angeles A affiliate of the. angels. All right, so here's the setup for

32:37

you. We're gonna talk about because

32:39

you're in storytelling, the

32:39

business of storytelling.

32:42

So we're gonna talk about baseball

32:42

broadcasting, which is kind of the

32:47

storytelling of baseball, right?

32:47

See how I wove that in?

32:50

Yep, and that then you're right on too. It wasn't me, but it was my So

32:51

very So as you may know, listen

32:55

and watch on TV or listen to radio

32:55

though.

32:58

Some baseball franchises have a

32:58

regular color commentator while

33:01

others teams may bring in guests

33:01

and do some play-by-play and

33:04

color. But you know, there's typically like this season team of a couple

33:06

of men or women coming together

33:09

and they're like the ones.

33:11

I'm a huge Cubs fan and I think

33:16

the Cubs have the best broadcast

33:16

team, Pat Hughes, Ron Coomer.

33:18

I mean, I can listen to these guys. Sometimes even when I always

33:20

subscribe to MLB.com so I can

33:25

stream games anytime, anywhere.

33:28

But sometimes I just prefer

33:31

listening to it on radio because

33:31

they tell a great story.

33:35

It's visual, right?

33:35

I'm like, I am there.

33:38

It's my happy place is to be at

33:38

Riggly and just hanging out,

33:44

watching the game. And so I hear these guys tell the

33:48

story. Cleveland, couple of another great broadcast or Tom Hamilton, this

33:49

guy's great.

33:52

So the storytelling in baseball,

33:52

I'm gonna ask you.

33:57

So you usually have the play-by-play guy. He's like, okay, he's at the, you

33:59

know, he's winding up, right?

34:04

So the guy is doing, but then you

34:04

have the real storyteller which is

34:08

the color commentator, right?

34:08

He's the guy who gives the

34:15

background, the fluff, the meat of

34:15

like, well, let me tell you this

34:19

story about, you know, when I was

34:19

at, when I was a player, a lot of

34:24

times these guys were players. When I was a player, I was on the

34:29

bus, and so you get it.

34:32

So here's your question, Mr. When

34:34

did the color commentator join the broadcasting booth? And I'll give you double points if

34:36

you can tell me who was the first

34:42

one, but just in general, maybe

34:42

you can say, when do you think the

34:45

color commentator first joined the broadcasting booth for baseball? So this is very baseball specific. I don't know in some of the other

34:52

I'm thinking it's gotta be really

34:52

early on, but I may be off on that

34:56

before I, so before I give my

34:56

answer, I'm gonna say this, that

35:01

both the play by play broadcaster

35:01

and the color commentator are

35:03

storytellers. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah.

35:06

Because that play by play person,

35:06

you mentioned your happy places

35:11

there at Wrigley Field.

35:13

Well, that play by play person can

35:18

paint that picture of Wrigley

35:18

Field that day.

35:20

You feel like you're there with

35:20

their word pictures of what's

35:24

going on in the game. So they're both great

35:28

storytellers. So I have absolutely no idea what

35:34

the answer to your question is.

35:36

And so I'm just gonna take a wild

35:39

guess. I'm gonna go question is.

35:43

You know, really quite close.

35:47

I mean, it was a very good logical

35:51

guess. So let me give you a little

35:56

thought. And I'll tell you why I went with

36:00

1932. thought. And I'll tell you why I went with

36:02

1932. 1932 was the year my mother

36:07

was born. So I'm just taking a guess based

36:11

on her on her birthday. All right. You're within 10 years.

36:15

I'll say that. All right. So let me give you a little

36:20

history here. So in 1921, first baseball game

36:23

ever was broadcast on the radio. That was the Pittsburgh Pirates

36:26

against the Philadelphia Phillies, August of 1921. That same year, well, season, was

36:28

also the first world series on the

36:32

radio, New York Giants and the New

36:32

York Yankees.

36:34

I always, every time I see the New

36:34

York Giants, my father-in-law was

36:40

a big New York Giants fan.

36:43

And he's never forgiven baseball

36:46

to allow them to move out of New

36:46

York.

36:49

But aside from that, now the funny

36:49

thing about that when they first

36:52

started broadcasting baseball in

36:52

1921, broadcasters were not

36:54

actually present at the game. They simply gave the reports from

36:59

the telegraph wire. And I'm from the camera.

37:03

The kicker. Yes. So that's And then in 22, the

37:05

broadcasts the entire World

37:08

Series. they were broadcasting. But Deering, here's your answer.

37:11

1923 World Series, they had a main broadcast, or the play by play

37:12

guy, I guess. But during the fourth inning of

37:14

Game 3 of the 1923 World Series,

37:16

the announcer turned the mic over

37:16

to another person in a broadcast

37:24

booth and became the first color

37:24

And I'm from the camera.

37:31

The kicker. How about about that? Awesome. And listening to that, I'm

37:34

thinking, they evolved pretty fast

37:34

on that then.

37:38

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's only a couple of

37:43

years after they started the radio broadcast. Right. I was gonna try to cheat with that

37:47

question. I asked you when was the first

37:50

radio broadcast, and then I was

37:50

gonna try to calculate it from

37:54

there. I still wouldn't get quite that

37:56

that close. Yeah, and the first guy, so that

38:00

23 World Series, Game 3, Graham

38:00

McNamey?

38:03

Yeah, I never would have gotten

38:03

that one.

38:06

I'm not familiar with him, but

38:06

that's really kind of popularized

38:09

it. But here's the thing. So that was in 23, but it wasn't

38:11

until, so just like in everything,

38:16

you can imagine the conversation

38:16

amongst baseball owners and teams

38:19

like, well, if we do it on the

38:19

radio, if we broadcast it for

38:23

free, people aren't gonna come to

38:23

the games, right?

38:25

I mean, some more probably, some

38:25

more conversations that have

38:28

occurred now about streaming the

38:28

stuff over live on the internet.

38:33

But all of this kind of

38:33

conversation, but it wasn't until

38:37

1938 that all teams began

38:37

broadcasting baseball games live

38:40

on the radio. So that was almost 15 years or more before everybody did. So it was like some teams began

38:42

doing it, slow Yeah, I never would

38:42

have gotten Some of the teams or

38:47

cities that had multiple teams

38:47

like Philadelphia and New York,

38:50

Chicago, those cities rolled it

38:50

out a little bit faster, but yeah,

38:56

it still took a little of time. And so I'll connect this back into

39:03

our storytelling topic. I'll be talking about here today.

39:06

Think about the owners of some of

39:06

those teams that were slower to

39:14

get your point.

39:16

They probably had their marketing

39:19

people coming to them, saying

39:19

telling this story of the future,

39:22

saying if we put all these on the

39:22

radio, nobody will ever come to

39:27

the game because they'll sit at

39:27

home and listen And they didn't

39:32

realize the one of the great

39:32

values of seeing a baseball game

39:37

is being there. I mean, for me, those are the bad,

39:42

I can watch a baseball game

39:42

sitting in the stadium.

39:47

Oh, I like it. I'd much rather watch a game

39:52

sitting in the stadium than it

39:52

would on TV.

39:55

Yeah, And so there's great power

39:55

in that story there, the stadium.

40:01

Right, Yeah, I think, and probably

40:01

at some point, Major League

40:05

Baseball, still one of the, you

40:05

know, very controlling leagues.

40:10

And in my notes, I can't wherever

40:10

it is in the paper here, but it

40:17

was somewhere in that early 1930s,

40:17

like 31 or 32 or something like

40:23

that, they signed a contract with

40:23

a sponsor for like $400,000 to be

40:27

the sponsor for a World Series broadcast. And then, and I think it was in 38

39:54

that Gillette signed a 10 year,

40:33

$14 million deal to be the World

40:33

Series in all-star game sponsors

40:36

for the next 10 years. So I think at that point, people

40:39

finally began to like, wow,

40:39

there's money to be made here.

40:41

That's a huge amount of money in that time. Yeah, can you imagine that?

40:43

Yes. Crazy. So anyway, that's all

40:45

storytelling. Yes, I love it. Yep. All right, well, let's get back

40:48

into it. that Play ball. I just a little phase.

40:52

I love that one.

40:57

All out on your own. You're doing this console. What kind of challenges?

40:58

How long have you been doing this

41:02

on your own now? Consulting, doing this storytelling consulting.

41:05

What do you call yourself, aside from master story tell?

41:07

Are you that like the CEO, the

41:10

CMS, you know, of the chief master

41:10

storytelling?

41:12

see that, now you're getting close. The title I put on my business

41:13

card is Chief Storyteller.

41:16

Oh, see. And so that's where I've landed in

41:18

terms of a title.

41:20

But I've been doing this for

41:23

working with this storytelling

41:23

content since we launched the book

41:27

about four years ago. OK. And so continuing to build and

41:31

then doing some other consulting

41:31

at the same So I can only imagine

41:38

because so many of our listeners

41:38

are entrepreneurs.

41:41

And they're either folks that are

41:41

kind of thinking like, ah, I want

40:57

to take that jump. I want to do that leap in the

41:50

others who just have even. And I'm always Like, you know,

41:56

what was it with our guests that

41:56

was that deciding factor if you

42:00

can it at all think back or pin it

42:00

down like, yes, I'm just going to

42:04

do this. Yeah. There was that moment where it was

42:04

a, okay, I'm just going to do

42:09

this. And it was, it was a moment of

42:13

clarity when I went, I can make

42:13

this work.

42:16

It may not be, I may not get rich,

42:16

but I can make this work.

42:20

keeping that in mind. And having the belief that, yeah,

42:23

what I have is, is providing value

42:23

to people.

42:26

big focus that I went in with is

42:26

how can I provide value to other

42:31

people? It wasn't so much, how can I get money from people?

42:32

It was, how can I provide value to

42:35

people? Because if I'm providing value, the revenue will start coming. of clarity for me was that I had

42:38

enough value that I could provide

42:38

for people.

42:42

That it would allow the revenue to

42:42

come in eventually and that it

42:49

would build from there. What do you do from a marketing

42:53

standpoint?

42:53

I'm kind of curious.

42:57

Are you clearly, you do podcasts,

42:57

so you put yourself out there to

43:00

tell stories. Do you have other kind of content?

43:06

You put the book out, but what

43:06

other kinds of things are you

43:12

doing?

43:12

Yeah, and the book was really the

43:15

foundation of it. And in terms of our marketing

43:19

efforts of getting that message

43:19

out there to lead people to the

43:25

workshop. You know how this goes?

43:28

You read a book and you think,

43:28

yeah, this is great.

43:33

But then you can't do what they're

43:33

telling you in the book.

43:36

It helps so much to get some

43:36

hands-on activity and coaching.

43:39

And like many entrepreneurs, I

43:39

think it starts with the people

43:42

that I know. And so it started with the people

43:46

I know and the people, the people

43:46

who I know, the people that they

43:49

know and reaching out from there. And then you start building a list

43:56

and I communicate regularly with

43:56

my email list and with my

44:01

followers on LinkedIn. love to have your audience join me

44:05

on LinkedIn. I put stories out there about

44:07

every week to teach some kind of

44:07

lesson and to show that we have

44:13

these happening all the time in

44:13

our lives.

44:17

And then it's just being

44:17

consistent and letting people know

44:22

that it's available. I've got some other marketing things in the work where I'm

44:24

building through social media.

44:27

But it's really just a stepwise

44:27

process.

44:30

And it's how much time and effort

44:30

you want to put into doing that.

44:34

I recognize I said this to

44:34

somebody just yesterday.

44:36

I am the greatest asset and the

44:36

greatest liability to my company.

44:41

I'm the one who's kind of doing

44:41

everything.

44:43

And so how much I'm willing to put

44:43

into that determines whether I'm

44:49

an asset or liability. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

44:51

I understand that. It's interesting that you mentioned about social media and

44:53

LinkedIn and such because that

44:55

actually was kind of on my mind to

44:55

ask you about social media and its

45:00

part or play in storytelling. Because depending upon the

45:03

platform that you decide to tell

45:03

your story or as a vehicle, you

45:07

may use video, you may be on

45:07

YouTube or Instagram, Rails or

45:11

TikTok. You've got Twitter, which is a

45:14

limited number of characters to

45:14

tell your story and kind of daisy

45:18

chain segments of a story. You mentioned LinkedIn, so you've

45:20

got bigger platform. But I'm curious. Do you find that it was social

45:22

media?

45:24

Is it helpful?

45:24

Is it a strong aid help you get

45:29

the message further across?

45:29

Or does it do you think that it

45:33

dilutes?

45:33

And as well, is there a difference

45:37

between kind of telling your story

45:37

orally versus written content?

45:40

Okay, so I got like three

45:40

questions.

45:42

I know. I really like Larry. And I can try to remember to get

45:44

to a while.

45:47

So if I don't call me back on

45:47

that.

45:50

But from broad standpoint, I think

45:50

social media is a storytelling

45:55

platform. People tell their stories on

45:57

social media. And so I think it encourages more

46:01

storytelling. Now, the downside of that is it

46:04

limits, it encourages a limited

46:04

kind of story.

46:07

Because everybody thinks I have to

46:07

put my very best face out there on

46:12

social media. But that is, I have to make myself

46:16

look good and maybe look better

46:16

than I actually am.

46:19

And I think that leads people to

46:19

believe I can only tell these

46:22

glowing, powerful, super success stories. I know. I really like Larry.

46:25

And I can try to that's not the truth. reality is some of the most

46:26

powerful stories we tell are the

46:29

stories of our stumbles and our

46:29

mistakes that we've made and what

46:31

we've learned from them. We'll even go back to the lesson learned from the T-Ball story that

46:33

we talked about early on.

46:35

That's it. That was a mistake that I made.

46:38

It wasn't a huge catastrophic mistake. But it's a good lesson learned

46:39

type of story.

46:41

so I think social media those

46:41

kinds of stories sometimes, which

46:44

is a mistake for businesses and business leaders. We need to be able to tell those

46:46

stories.

46:49

Okay. Now, if there was a third question

46:51

in there and can't remember what

46:51

it was, orally or through written

46:54

content, what do you think is more

46:54

I think the answer is yes.

46:59

They're all impactful. The key is not the medium you're

47:02

using. The key is that you're structuring your story well enough that it

47:04

addresses your audience. That taps into your audience.

47:07

So you've seen this. You've seen YouTube videos.

47:10

You've seen posts on LinkedIn. You've seen Facebook posts or

47:12

TikTok videos or whatever that are

47:14

great and that are terrible. And so it's not the medium.

47:19

It's how you're using the skill of

47:19

storytelling to deliver on that

47:22

medium. My daughter who I referenced earlier, I was having a

47:23

conversation with her and she was

47:26

talking about a conversation they

47:26

had on Zoom with some remote

47:30

family members in her husband's

47:30

family And she turned to her

47:33

husband and said, hey, share that

47:33

experience about this.

47:36

That really relates to what we're

47:36

talking about here.

47:38

And he started sharing his

47:38

experience and she's sitting there

47:42

with him on zoom and below the

47:42

camera angle, she's doing one of

47:46

these looping of her fingers kind

47:46

of motions.

47:49

Like get to the point, get to the

47:49

point, get to the point.

47:58

And she said to me, Dad, this is

47:58

what you've done to me because

48:03

I've read your book. I realized he wasn't telling the

48:08

story the right way.

48:10

He was taking too long to get to

48:15

the point. And we do that on social media.

48:19

Unless you're intentional, I use

48:19

this word a lot about

48:24

intentionally telling your story. Unless you're intentional about

48:26

how you've crafted that, it

48:26

doesn't matter what medium you

48:29

use, it's not going to work well. And so it's that intentionality of

48:33

knowing how to tap into that brain

48:33

chemistry that we talked about.

48:38

How to tell that story in a way

48:38

that it does effectively make the

48:42

point that you're trying to make.

48:46

That's going to be more important than the meeting you choose to it

48:47

on. It really kind of gets, and I'm

48:49

going to ask you this question,

48:52

but it probably actually probably

48:52

just answered to a degree anyway.

48:56

And I'll set this up and there's

48:56

anything that you wanted to add to

49:02

it. You're talking about intentionally telling your story.

49:04

I was going to ask you the

49:08

question as well. So any social media platform that

49:11

you would like to use, mention

49:11

LinkedIn, choose whichever one you

49:15

like, are there some practical

49:15

tips that you would give a

49:18

business owner on how to use that

49:18

platform social media to help tell

49:23

their Yeah, I would start with,

49:23

and thanks for calling back that

49:28

word intentional because that's

49:28

where I will start with that

49:32

answer is what is your intention in Sometimes we say, okay, I've had this experience.

49:34

I'm going to just share it out And

49:37

we as the audience will read or

49:37

listen to that experience ago.

49:40

So what But if you start with,

49:40

this is the message or this is the

49:44

point that I want to make with

49:44

this story.

49:46

That's going to help you at the

49:46

outset to filter out the less

49:50

necessary components of that

49:50

experience to get to the point

49:52

that you're With a lot of the

49:52

platforms, they do limit how much

50:00

you can put out there. Twitter is the classic example of

50:02

that. You can, within the camera, the

50:05

character count is 127 or something like that. Whatever that character count is.

50:09

If you're really Whatever that character count it, you can get

50:10

your story into that limited

50:13

amount. But if you're not clear on what

50:17

your intent is in the to wander

50:17

around a little bit with that

50:22

story, like my son-in-law, who

50:22

went to my daughter was trying to

50:26

pull me back. He was wandering through his story

50:29

because he wasn't clear on his

50:29

intent when he started the social

50:34

media, it's a good point that you

50:34

get across there because often

50:40

when we're either talking with

50:40

clients or I'm just talking with

50:43

business owners, they're asking

50:43

me, I'm very involved in the

50:47

Chamber among the board of our

50:47

local Chamber of Commerce.

50:52

But people are always like, hey,

50:52

what do you think about social

50:55

media?

50:55

And I try to tell you, you have to

50:58

tell a story, you have to tell

50:58

your story, tell your brand story,

51:01

provide value, provide

51:01

information, tell the story.

51:04

Don't get hung up about, I got to,

51:04

here's my deal, here's my, you got

51:07

to buy for me. This is like, no, no, no, no,

51:10

that's the wrong approach. And telling the story.

51:13

That's why I'm like, yeah, what's

51:13

the best, some great advice and

51:15

the intentional storytelling I think is purposeful. How about this?

51:17

Let me stretch this even further. It's just an everyday life, not

51:19

even a business owner. How can people incorporate story

51:21

to the story? telling in their everyday

51:22

interactions. Because you talk about, hey, we

51:23

are a storytelling species,

51:26

telling the stories helps build

51:26

the community.

51:29

And so it really shouldn't be

51:29

limited whether you're a business

51:31

owner, whether you're a corporation or whatever, from that standpoint, really it should just

51:33

be in the interactions that I'm

51:37

gonna have with my kids, or I'm

51:37

going out to dinner with some

51:41

friends tomorrow night. And so how can I, what would be

51:45

some practical, important

51:45

storytelling tips that I can like

51:48

begin to embrace in my daily You

51:48

know, when I first got into, when

51:52

we'd written a book and we got

51:52

into teaching, storytelling and

51:54

things like that, I kind of got

51:54

caught up into every story I tell

51:58

has to fit within the framework

51:58

that I'm talking about here.

52:01

It has to be this intentionality.

52:03

And so I backed off of that,

52:06

because sometimes, when I'm

52:06

sharing experience, I'm just

52:09

sharing it to share an experience,

52:09

or I'm just sharing it to

52:13

entertain and to have So just note

52:13

the times when you need to be more

52:19

intentional about it, but just in

52:19

your day to day life, one of the

52:22

great examples I can think of is,

52:22

let's say that we're at a chamber

52:29

event. You mentioned the Chamber of

52:32

Commerce. So I go to a Chamber of Commerce

52:36

event, somebody that I don't know

52:36

comes up to me, we start to talk

52:41

and they say, what do you Well,

52:41

how do we answer that story?

52:45

Or how to answer that question?

52:45

We typically answer it with, well,

52:48

I do this and this and this and

52:48

this and this and this.

52:52

And we talk about kind of what we

52:52

do on a day to day basis.

52:57

What if you just turned that into

52:57

a super simple quick story you

53:02

could tell? And you could I serve people who them this.

53:05

And that in essence is a super

53:07

short form But that tells people

53:07

more of what they want to know

53:10

than what you do on a day to And

53:10

it's going to engage them more.

53:17

When I've done this, the response

53:17

that I get from people is, oh,

53:20

tell me more about When I don't do

53:20

that, people go, oh, and then

53:24

they're like ready to move on to

53:24

somebody else.

53:27

And so if you want to make those

53:27

connections with people,

53:31

remembering that people buy from

53:31

those that they know, like, and

53:35

trust, start with that, formulate

53:35

that little story that can be like

53:40

two or three sentences that

53:40

explains who you serve, how you

53:43

serve them, and then stop and let

53:43

the other person ask the questions

53:47

that they want to ask, because now

53:47

they're going to be intrigued.

53:50

The brain chemistry is kicked in and they want to know more. And that's going to just try to

53:52

regular day to day kind of basis

53:59

help you make those connections

53:59

that you want like ready to move

54:03

on to somebody make. That's good.

54:06

All right, Mark, here we are down

54:06

to the bottom of the ninth.

54:10

And this is where I ask all of our

54:10

guests, what advice do you have

54:17

for rookies in the game?

54:17

Meaning those just starting out in

54:19

business or maybe those who already have their business or maybe looking for some guidance.

54:23

I mean, you've got some

54:27

experience, right?

54:27

You've been in the corporate

54:29

world, you've jumped, you're doing

54:29

your own thing right now, lovely.

54:32

What kind of advice do you So I'm

54:32

going to give one broad practical

54:35

advice and then I'll give a couple

54:35

that are related directly to

54:40

storytelling. The first broad practical advice,

54:42

I love this phrase that I picked

54:42

up from somewhere else.

54:47

You can do anything that you can't

54:47

do Meaning you can do anything

54:52

that you want in this moment, but

54:52

you can't do everything in this

55:01

moment. So choose, be deliberate and conscious about, okay, what am I

55:01

going to spend my time on right

55:08

now? Because it's really easy, particularly as you're starting

55:10

out in business to say, oh, I've

55:12

got to do this and this and this

55:12

and this and this and this and you

55:18

get so distracted about all the

55:18

things that you need to do or want

55:21

to do that you're not doing in the moment. So be clear on those things that

55:23

you're going to do, but choose the

55:27

one that you're going to do in the

55:27

moment so that you're using your

55:33

time more The other things that I

55:33

would say tied to storytelling is

55:40

look for your stories, look for

55:40

those experiences that you can

55:43

turn into stories that teach lead

55:43

and inspire, look for those

55:45

emotional interactions or those emotional responses that you have to something and start capturing

55:47

those and thinking, what's that story?

55:49

And then practice your stories

55:51

with the intent that you have

55:51

whether that intent is I want

55:55

people just to get to know my

55:55

business, my product, my service,

55:57

whether it's I want people to be

55:57

able to know how this benefits

56:02

them or whether it's I just need

56:02

them to get some background around

56:05

what I do. that story down, refine it. And the first few times you tell

56:07

it, it's not going to go well.

56:10

It's going to be a stumble.

56:12

It's going to feel like that didn't work. So refine it, think about it.

56:15

It's like any other skill. You're not going to be perfect at

56:17

it the first time you do it.

56:20

I very often do this with podcast

56:23

host. I'll go to you and say, Randy, the

56:26

first podcast you did, how well

56:26

did you feel you did as a podcast

56:28

host? Oh, it's horrible. I felt so bad. It was one of my clients.

56:31

I It was one of my clients. I talked to you, says that.

56:34

It was one of my clients.

56:38

I felt so bad.

56:42

I'm like, oh my gosh, we should

56:42

Yeah.

56:47

And you know, we get in those

56:47

moments.

56:51

And sometimes when people start

56:51

off with the skill of

56:53

storytelling, and they go, oh,

56:53

that was so bad.

56:56

I'll never do that again. Well, that's from wrong with that

57:00

story or why it didn't land well,

57:00

and refine it from there and keep

57:06

going. And then after a while, it becomes

57:09

more smooth and more comfortable

57:09

for you.

57:11

So don't give up on storytelling

57:11

as a key business skill,

57:14

particularly as you're starting

57:14

out with your Just good, good

57:17

advice. Thank you so much, Mark.

57:20

Now, I'm going to refer people

57:20

again.

57:22

I think if you're as intrigued as

57:22

I am in the storytelling process,

57:26

you'll want to go pick this thing

57:26

up, Mark.

57:30

Again, being so gracious to give a

57:30

free copy of his ebook, the master

57:33

storytelling. You can go to his website master-storytelling.com slash

57:35

forward slash podcast gift. And you can go grab it there.

57:39

I'll have the link in the show

57:41

notes. You can go check that out. And Mark, I just, I loved it.

57:45

I loved having the conversation. I loved hearing your stories. Good stuff.

57:48

I love the visual that I was

57:48

getting coming from it, all

57:52

everything. It was just terrific having you on

57:55

the show. you, Randy. It's been a pleasure talking to

57:56

you.

57:58

Thanks for putting your show out

57:58

there and providing benefit to

58:03

your audience. I appreciate that All right.

58:05

OK, folks, that's the ball game.

58:08

So thanks for joining us today.

58:10

And if you like to show, please

58:10

tell your friends, subscribe, and

58:14

review. And we'll see you around the

58:17

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58:19

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