0:00

You listening to the micro version of

0:02

the Savage look cast at Savage.love. Your

0:06

style good relationship color

0:08

or. Sexual.

0:19

Savage. I'm

0:23

not even gonna try to pronounce that

0:25

word. the one the Pope had to

0:27

apologize for using last week. The current

0:29

Pope, The Nice Pope there. Who am

0:32

I to judge Pope? The being a

0:34

is not a crime Pope. That Pope

0:36

someone ratted the Pope out for using

0:38

an anti gay slur during a private

0:40

closed closet doors meeting with two hundred

0:42

and fifty Catholic bishops and Italy last

0:45

week and. Yeah, I'm not even a

0:47

try to say it out loud. Because.

0:49

I have a problem. If

0:51

I see an unfamiliar word imprint first,

0:53

I hear it in my head. And.

0:56

If I don't hear it in my head the way

0:58

it's supposed to be pronounced, Doesn't. Matter

1:00

how many times I hear the word

1:02

pronounced correctly after that, doesn't matter how

1:05

many times I'm corrected when I heard

1:07

in my head when I read the

1:09

word for the first. Time. That's how

1:11

it's gonna come out. Of my mouth for the

1:13

rest of my life. A savage love

1:15

cast listener who obviously knows what

1:18

I'm like called in with the

1:20

correct pronunciation. I get it, everybody.

1:23

The. Word is pronounced. For.

1:25

Judging. By. It.

1:28

Was a valiant attempt to get out in

1:30

front of my brain, and one I very

1:32

much appreciate color, but. It came

1:34

too late. I'd. Already read the

1:36

word a dozen times in print

1:38

already it's spelled F R O

1:40

C I A G G I

1:42

N E And what I heard

1:44

in my head actually kind of

1:46

the barest to say. Was.

1:48

Fraga Chino. Like frappuccino made with

1:50

frogs. I realize it makes no

1:53

sense. It's F R O sea.

1:55

Not ever. Oh gee. But.

1:57

my brain like the lord works

1:59

in mr ways. Anyway,

2:02

the word means

2:05

faggotty. The Pope was expressing his

2:07

concerns about admitting openly gay men to

2:09

the priesthood because a lot

2:12

of the seminaries he's visited in his time as

2:14

Pope are already pretty faggotty

2:16

as is, which if you

2:19

think about it for just a second

2:21

means banning gay men from the priesthood

2:23

isn't keeping gay men out of the

2:25

priesthood. It's attracting a certain kind of

2:28

gay man, the self-loathing kind, the externalizing

2:30

of the internal conflict kind, and

2:32

the Church actually does welcome men into

2:35

the priesthood who have a history of

2:37

homosexual activity but only if their homosexual

2:39

activity wasn't deep seated or

2:42

seated with a T. Deep seated,

2:44

not deep seated. That means something

2:46

else entirely. So if you wore

2:49

your homosexuality lightly, if you were

2:51

shallow seated, if you

2:53

were perched on the edge of your seat I guess, you're

2:56

in. Anyway, the day

2:58

before the news broke I got

3:00

an email from Peter Tatchell. He's

3:02

a high-profile LGBTQ rights activist in

3:04

the UK and the subject line

3:06

on the email was, Dan, the

3:08

Pope called us faggots. I

3:11

opened the email and the headline on the newsletter

3:14

was Pope called LGBT faggots.

3:16

Now in fairness to the

3:19

Pope, which is something I

3:21

never thought I'd say on my dirty

3:23

sex podcast, the Pope didn't call all

3:25

LGBT faggots. He didn't call lesbians faggots

3:27

or bisexuals faggots or

3:30

everyone crowded in under the trans umbrella faggots.

3:32

The Pope wasn't even talking about, I don't

3:34

think, all gay people. He wasn't

3:37

talking about all the ho-chad-gene shit

3:39

that went down at gay pride

3:41

in WeHo over the weekend. He

3:43

was condemning all the ho-chad-gene shit

3:46

going down in Catholic seminaries in

3:48

Italy. Apparently even with

3:50

the ban on gay men in

3:52

the priesthood, which I give not

3:55

one single ho-chad-gene shit about, there's

3:57

a whole lot of ho-chad-gene butt

3:59

stuff. going on in Catholic seminaries right

4:01

now. And these faggots

4:03

in seminaries, they profess to believe

4:06

and are committed to teaching others

4:08

to believe what the church teaches

4:10

and pretends to believe about homosexuality.

4:12

Namely that, and I'm quoting here from

4:15

the catechism, homosexual acts are

4:17

intrinsically disordered, contrary to natural law.

4:19

They closed the sexual act to

4:22

the gift of life. Now, the

4:25

poor straight people get all high and mighty

4:27

about how intrinsically ordered you are in the

4:29

eyes of the Catholic Church. The

4:31

church describes masturbation as

4:34

intrinsically and gravely disordered,

4:36

which sounds worse. And

4:38

it condemns birth control too, which obviously

4:40

closes the sexual act to life with

4:43

the exact same words. Now,

4:46

I am inclined to say these faggots at the

4:49

Pope talking about these faggots who

4:51

want to carry water, carry holy water for

4:53

the Catholic Church. Fuck these

4:55

faggots. But honestly, I

4:58

have some sympathy for them, seeing as

5:00

they're doing what I almost

5:02

did. I chose to attend

5:05

a seminary, a preparatory seminary, a high school

5:07

for Catholic boys thinking about becoming priests when

5:10

I was a teenager, in part because I thought

5:12

the building was beautiful. If you're

5:14

over 40, quickly preparatory seminary north on

5:16

Rush Street is Chicago's St. Chappelle. If

5:19

you're under 40, it's Chicago's Hogwarts.

5:22

Anyway, if I'd stuck with

5:24

it, if I'd hated myself that much

5:27

and made it all the way to the grown-up

5:29

seminary, and there were a lot of other gay

5:32

guys there like me, guys who were going into

5:34

the priesthood because coming out didn't seem like an

5:36

option, and if we

5:38

were all sleeping in dormitories together and we

5:40

believed our sins would be forgiven, if we

5:42

made a full confession the next day, a

5:45

full and very hot confession, I would

5:48

have been one of the ones engaging in a whole

5:50

lot of Hochatine at my seminary.

5:52

I have another memory of Quigley that I

5:55

wanted to share, something that sounds too fucked

5:57

up to be true if there's anybody

5:59

out there. listening who went to Quigley who can

6:01

back me up on this please call in addition

6:04

to the mandatory swim classes we had

6:06

to take where everybody swam naked

6:08

in front of the coaches who were

6:11

priests but I went to Quigley

6:13

there was a young priest whose job title was

6:16

disciplinarian he sat

6:18

in an office on the second floor

6:20

with a sign on the door that

6:22

said disciplinarian and he waited there for

6:25

angry teachers to send misbehaving boys

6:27

to his office to

6:29

be spanked that was his job

6:32

as a priest spanking high

6:34

school boys all day long I

6:36

believe this position when I might have

6:38

applied for myself if I were a

6:41

messy closet case he'd managed to get

6:43

my ass ordained I believe

6:45

this position has been phased

6:47

out at Catholic seminaries due

6:50

to its absolutely off-the-charts levels

6:52

of oh Chad Gina all

6:54

right coming up on the micro tons of

6:57

your cues lots of my A's and

6:59

joining me on the show today comedian Jared

7:01

Goldstein you may have seen him in the

7:03

single best episode of Black Mirror ever

7:05

in the most current Black Mirror season you

7:07

may be one of the tens of thousands

7:10

of fans who follow him on Instagram I'm

7:12

really excited to have Jared on the

7:14

love cast we talk about long-haired homos wearing

7:16

our houses we keep our shrines to Timothy

7:19

Chalamet and with Jared I play

7:21

what may be the shortest game of never have

7:23

I ever ever in

7:25

a conversation that the Pope would surely think had

7:27

way too much oh Chad Gina

7:29

for his tastes a little of my conversation with

7:31

Jared is on the micro all of it is

7:33

on the Magnum and finally I wanted to say

7:36

hey it's June that

7:38

is a very special month

7:41

national migraine and headache awareness month

7:43

as I'm sure you all know

7:45

at the love cast we're celebrating

7:48

national migraine and headache awareness month

7:50

by offering our micro listeners a

7:52

free month of the Magnum go

7:54

to Savage.love and enter the code

7:56

happy June to become a sub

7:58

now Magnum that

8:00

the longer, stronger ad-free Savage Lovecast,

8:02

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8:05

struggle sessions, invites to Savage Love,

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and headache awareness month in style

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with us by getting a free

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month of Magnum now at savage.love.

8:17

All right, if you're a Magnum sub, show

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Get an extended 30-day

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8:48

for today's show, support we are very

8:50

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8:53

stamps.com, you can access all the amazing services

8:55

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8:57

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9:17

click on the microphone at the

9:19

top of the homepage and type

9:21

in Savage. That's stamps.com, enter S-A-V-A-G-E.

9:25

Hi Dan, I'm a

9:27

32 year old straight woman

9:29

living in Australia. Currently

9:32

I'm working at a hospitality

9:35

agency. The work is really casual. There's

9:37

a lot of people that work there.

9:40

So it's kind of rare that you

9:42

work with the same person very often.

9:45

A couple of weeks ago, I went from not

9:47

sleeping with anybody for

9:49

a long time, just sleeping with two different guys

9:52

from my job on the same weekend. And

9:55

to my misfortune, they are

9:57

both working with me for a whole week.

10:00

at an event where I'm at the

10:02

bar. So both

10:05

of them work kind

10:07

of close to me, smile at me,

10:09

flirt with me, all this. And

10:13

often I get also attention from customers. I

10:15

come up to the bar and kind of

10:17

flirt with me or other co-workers. And so

10:21

with one of these guys that I've slept

10:23

with, I kind of would like to keep doing

10:25

that because if she's nice and it's fun

10:27

and I mean there's no strength of

10:29

task or anything but it's fun. But

10:32

then I also like I

10:34

don't know what to do

10:36

when guests come up and flirt

10:38

with me at the bar. And I'm

10:41

also interested in them or in potentially

10:44

hooking up with some of them. But like

10:47

if this other guy that

10:49

I'm also interested in continuing

10:51

to sleep with is right there, I don't

10:54

want to seem rude or hurt

10:57

his feelings or just be kind of un-classy

11:00

or just flirting in

11:02

front of somebody that you sleep

11:04

with. So what am I

11:06

supposed to do when this happens? Am

11:09

I supposed to not give them my Instagram if

11:11

they ask for it or just ask like

11:13

I'm not interested when I am interested? And

11:17

I only kind of ask this because I just

11:19

feel like this doesn't really happen very much or like

11:22

I don't really have as many sexual

11:24

partners as I would like to. So

11:26

it kind of feels weird to be

11:28

like not taking

11:30

opportunities when they happen just

11:32

because I'm already slept with

11:35

somebody that's working with me. So

11:37

what should I do Dan? Be

11:40

honest with the dude or the

11:42

dudes from work that

11:44

you fucked. Just tell them, risk telling

11:46

them that you're

11:48

interested in fucking them again but you're

11:50

not interested in only fucking them. And

11:53

you don't want to feel awkward if

11:55

there's somebody else who walks

11:57

into the establishment where you're working to flirt.

12:00

with you and you want to flirt back with, you don't want

12:02

that to be awkward. And you never

12:04

know. You might have a Yahtzee moment here

12:06

where you tell this

12:08

guy, you'd set his expectations like,

12:10

Hey, look, totally like fucking

12:12

you totally down to fuck again. Going

12:14

to be fucking other guys, including potentially

12:18

customers. And you

12:20

can't have a problem with that. If you want to fuck me again,

12:23

you never know. He could be a

12:25

cuckold or a hot wife dude or

12:27

a Stagen Vixen guy. And

12:30

not only is the prospect of you flirting

12:32

with and fucking other men a problem

12:35

for him, but it is a benefit.

12:37

It is a selling point that

12:40

when he sees you flirting with a customer, he will be

12:42

so happy. He'll be so excited at the

12:45

prospect of getting to go down on you

12:47

after that other guy fucked you

12:50

that he'll come

12:52

without touching his dick during the conversation that

12:54

you're going to have with him. You

12:57

never know. But if that conversation

13:00

turns him off and he's no

13:02

longer interested in you because you were

13:04

direct and honest with him about your

13:07

expectations. Okay. Well, I don't

13:09

want to call him bad rubbish because he's not bad rubbish. He's

13:11

allowed to have a comfort zone of

13:13

his own and limits and expectations and wants

13:15

and desires of his own. But if what

13:17

you want doesn't work for

13:20

him, figuring that out now in

13:23

advance of you flirting with a customer,

13:25

flirting back with a customer who's flirting

13:27

with you is going to be better

13:29

for you and better for him and

13:31

having that conversation, taking that risk. That's the only

13:33

way you ever find out if you're going to have

13:36

in the course of your romantic and sexual life, one

13:39

or two of those Yahtzee moments that

13:41

we all have or

13:43

can have if we just risk

13:46

being honest and direct with the

13:48

people we're fucking. I think

13:50

of someone I heard from once

13:53

at a speaking event who waited

13:55

for 10 years to

13:57

confess their terrible, awful, extreme

14:00

crazy kink, or what

14:02

seemed like a crazy kink to them, not so

14:04

much to me, to their partner, because

14:07

they were struggling with shame that whole time and they

14:09

were certain that they would

14:11

be rejected only to find out 10 years

14:13

into the relationship that their partner basically

14:16

had the same kink. 10

14:20

years wasted, 10 years that they could have been

14:22

doing these crazy things to and

14:25

with each other, wasted. They

14:27

may end up for lost time, but there

14:30

was a Yahtzee. A Yahtzee delayed, a

14:32

Yahtzee ultimately had, but you could have

14:34

your Yahtzee now, potentially,

14:37

if you just level with this guy

14:39

or these guys. Hey

14:41

Dan on the text, I'll be at risk youth.

14:44

I'm a 39 year old straight cis woman

14:46

from the Bay Area. Three weeks ago I

14:48

was diagnosed with breast cancer. Today

14:51

I'm at the surgeon and

14:53

I have to decide about a

14:55

single or a double mastectomy. It's

14:58

absolutely medically necessary on one side

15:00

to save my life and

15:02

I have to decide on the other side where

15:04

the cancer has not affected. The

15:06

reason I'm calling you about this is because

15:09

of the loss of feeling I will have

15:12

on one or possibly both sides.

15:15

My husband and I have a

15:17

really resilient sex life and I

15:19

have no doubt that we can get past

15:21

this. We have two young

15:23

children, we started having sex pretty

15:26

soon after I gave birth to both of them. And

15:29

I've had other surgeries and we've recovered

15:32

lovely, you know, in a nice

15:34

way. And just like

15:36

being told you're never gonna be able to

15:38

feel your husband squeeze your breast again is

15:41

a pretty awful

15:43

feeling. And there, I think medically, anesthetically,

15:45

it makes sense for me to get

15:47

a double mastectomy, but I

15:50

just wanted to have someone who is as

15:52

sex positive and excited about sex as I

15:54

am to talk to you about this, even

15:56

though you don't have breasts. I'm

15:59

just... really, really torn.

16:01

I think I've kind of made up my decision

16:03

to get the double message to

16:05

me because I think it's the safest way to

16:07

ensure that I'm there for my children in the

16:09

future, but I

16:12

need to find a way to tell

16:14

myself that this is gonna be okay.

16:17

This is such a heartbreaking question

16:19

and I feel not qualified

16:22

to answer this question, but

16:24

then I remember what I've said a million

16:26

times to all the other people who've come

16:28

on the show who write advice columns, that

16:31

when you look up advice in the dictionary

16:33

it says opinion about what could or should

16:36

be done and the only qualification you

16:38

need to give your opinion is that

16:40

somebody asked for it and you, you're

16:43

asking for my opinion and

16:45

so I'm gonna do my

16:47

best to answer your question to the best of my

16:49

ability. I hope that you're reaching

16:52

out to other women who've

16:54

faced breast cancer and had to

16:57

make this decision for their input

16:59

as well and not just relying

17:01

on your old fag friend

17:03

Dan. You want to feel good when

17:06

you look at your body and I think that's

17:09

an aesthetics issue. You cite aesthetics as one of

17:11

the reasons why you might choose to get this

17:14

double mastectomy. I guess a kind

17:16

of uniform symmetrical

17:18

appearance, but to feel

17:21

good in your body sounds like sex

17:23

has been really important to you and

17:25

having your breasts plural squeezed

17:27

by your husband is

17:30

important to your sense of sexual fulfillment or has

17:32

been important to your sense of sexual fulfillment and

17:34

when you say as you

17:37

did in your question that I don't

17:39

have breasts that's true, but I

17:41

am one of those men with very

17:43

responsive nipples and I feel

17:46

you like it's important to

17:48

me to be touched and my

17:50

chest touched by a lover during

17:52

sex. It's very important to me and if

17:56

I had a choice between suddenly having

17:58

no number nipples, we're

18:00

having one still responsive nipple,

18:03

I think I would choose to keep

18:05

the nipple, we call them tits

18:08

here in gay land, two, I would

18:10

choose to keep the tit that was

18:12

healthy. And if I were in your shoes,

18:14

choose to keep my healthy breasts

18:16

if I was a woman facing the choice

18:18

that you are facing. And then for my

18:20

children's sake, monitor

18:23

that breast very, very closely.

18:25

And then if another

18:28

mastectomy is required down the

18:30

road to have gotten as much use

18:33

and enjoyment and pleasure out of that

18:36

breast as I could before it had

18:39

to go to. I don't feel

18:42

like I can tell

18:44

you what to do here, tell you what's right for

18:46

you. I can reassure you

18:49

that, oh my God,

18:51

as we age, time is a meat grinder,

18:53

it eats us all up, it really does.

18:56

And the ways in which we

18:59

take pleasure from our bodies evolve

19:02

over time. A pleasure

19:04

that was really central to your sensual sexual

19:06

fulfillment and feeling good in your body, over

19:10

time, that can change

19:13

something that was really important, something that felt really good,

19:16

falls out of your sexual repertoire and

19:18

you barely even notice it as some

19:20

other pleasure, some other thing.

19:23

Pleasure your body is capable of experiencing, a

19:25

pleasure your body is capable of providing you,

19:27

sort of rises to take its

19:30

place. So I'm confident

19:32

with a lover as

19:34

attentive and supportive as it sounds like

19:36

your husband is, that you will

19:38

be able to find new ways of taking

19:40

pleasure from your body, of

19:42

being provided with pleasure in

19:45

your body and providing him with pleasure

19:47

with your body over time. And

19:49

rather than that being, as it is for so

19:52

many of us as we age, a gradual process,

19:54

it will be a kind

19:56

of clunky gear shift, but you will

19:58

be able to to do it.

20:01

You will be able to find new

20:03

erogenous zones because it's

20:07

not just nerve endings that erogenous zones are

20:09

about. It's about desire and

20:12

our own desire and our need to

20:14

be touched and our need for intimacy

20:16

finding really places

20:18

in our body where we can be

20:21

provided, where we're that touch, where that

20:23

physical contact and that connection can

20:26

be facilitated and if you lose

20:28

your breasts, if you do decide to

20:30

get the double mastectomy and my heart goes

20:32

out to you at this moment, I just ache for

20:35

you right at this moment. I'm confident that you will

20:37

find new pleasures

20:40

and new ways to enjoy your body and sex

20:42

with your husband. Okay,

20:44

which one do I want to listen to? Two

20:47

tennis players face off in a tense

20:50

match. But

20:52

after the game, their rivalry simmers in the

20:54

sauna. Listen in as they find new ways

20:56

to try to best one another. Oh,

21:01

here's another one. Charlotte and Willa can't

21:03

wait till the end of the party. So

21:05

they sneak away into a free bedroom and

21:07

hook up as the party goes on outside

21:09

the door. They try their best to stay

21:11

quiet as things heat up between them. Jeez,

21:16

you guys caught me browsing Dipsy while I'm at

21:18

work. Don't tell Dan.

21:21

Dipsy is an app full of hundreds

21:23

of short, spicy audio stories. It

21:25

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22:20

Hi Dan. I am a 31 year old cis

22:22

female calling from the West Coast. I

22:24

am calling in about something pretty heavy so I feel

22:27

obligated to throw out a trigger warning. I

22:30

just recently found out my ex-fiancé of eight

22:32

years was arrested on federal child pornography charges

22:34

and for trying to solicit a minor. I

22:38

met this man when I was 21 and he was

22:40

23. We were together for eight

22:42

years and engaged for the last four. Two

22:45

years ago I fell in love with one of

22:47

my co-workers and ended my engagement. My

22:50

fiancé seemed unusually understanding about the whole

22:52

thing although he was hurt

22:54

and didn't want our relationship to end. We had

22:57

agreed that our relationship had turned more companionate

22:59

towards the end and so we ended things

23:01

right amicably and I still considered him a dear

23:03

friend. And up until that point in my life

23:05

I have felt like he was the only healthy

23:07

relationship I had ever had. We've been

23:09

separated now for two years and I'm still with the man

23:11

I left him for but my ex and I have

23:13

kept in contact and have been able to stay pretty

23:15

close friends. I found out about him

23:17

being arrested a couple weeks ago but

23:20

just finally got access to court records and now I

23:22

know everything. Now that I know

23:24

the details and the horrifying extent

23:26

of his crimes and that he was doing

23:28

these things while we were still together I

23:31

feel very broken. I feel like I

23:33

can't trust myself to really know anyone and all of

23:35

the good memories of my ex are just so painful

23:37

now. I am just trying to

23:39

find resources for people who have experienced this

23:41

kind of thing. There is surprisingly little available at

23:43

least that I have been able to find. I am

23:46

in therapy but I feel like if

23:48

I could just talk to someone else who's been through this I

23:52

don't know if maybe there is a specialist you

23:54

could have on or if your other listeners might

23:56

have any insight on resources for people who have

23:59

loved someone who turned out to be a pedophile

24:01

or a sexual predator. I

24:03

think due to the extent of his crimes, there's a good

24:05

chance I'll never see him again. And

24:07

I don't know how to make it through this without being able

24:09

to tell him how hurt and disgusted I am and how betrayed

24:12

I feel. I'm not

24:14

aware of any resources out there

24:16

for people who have gone through what

24:18

you're going through now. If

24:20

anybody listening to the show is

24:22

aware of resources that might help this

24:25

caller, please jump into the comment thread or give us a

24:27

call and let us know about them. If

24:29

you're a lawyer, you dodged

24:33

a bullet, you

24:35

should be grateful that that coworker

24:37

you couldn't resist came along and

24:40

that you aren't finding all of these same

24:42

things out about this man after

24:44

you married him and had kids with

24:46

him, potentially. So

24:49

I get it. I

24:52

get that you're struggling with that existential

24:54

terror that we all kind of live with.

24:56

It's sort of this low throne

24:58

in the back of our minds where we

25:01

know that we can't know everything

25:04

about the people who are closest to

25:06

us, the people we bring into our

25:08

lives, that there's some part of every

25:10

human being we interact with that

25:13

is unknowable

25:15

and unreachable and isn't

25:18

something that can be disclosed to us

25:20

or should be disclosed to us. And

25:22

in addition to the existential

25:24

terror of just not being

25:27

able to fully know someone else, there's also the

25:29

existential terror of not being able to fully know

25:32

ourselves. And we live

25:35

with that. We limp through

25:37

life living with

25:39

that existential terror. What

25:42

you're going through right now is

25:44

it's kind of foregrounding this background

25:46

existential terror, this low thrum in

25:49

the back of your mind about whether you can really,

25:52

truly, fully know the man you're with now

25:55

after having obviously not really,

25:57

truly, fully known the man you're

25:59

with then. Then it's

26:01

right in the front of your mind. It will,

26:03

in time, as you process this, it

26:06

will, like grief, begin

26:08

to recede. Every once

26:10

in a while you may become consciously aware of it again

26:12

and have a moment and stress

26:15

out about it, and then again

26:18

it will recede. Therapy

26:22

is a resource available to you. You say

26:24

you're in therapy now. Good, that may be

26:26

the best single resource available

26:28

to you, but

26:31

yeah, you're consciously

26:33

aware of something now, acutely,

26:35

consciously aware of something that

26:37

most people are

26:39

only half aware of all

26:42

of their lives, which is that

26:44

everybody else on this fucking planet is a fucking

26:46

mystery, and even parts

26:48

of ourselves are fucking mysteries to us.

26:53

And yeah, what I keep coming back to is I think about

26:55

your question, as I listen to your call a couple of times,

26:58

was how lucky you are that

27:01

you got out of this relationship, that

27:03

you met this coworker and fell in love

27:05

with this coworker and exited this relationship.

27:08

And yeah, I do think there is a bit of a

27:10

tell there in how calmly the

27:12

man you were with for eight years and engaged

27:14

to for four years took it when you told

27:16

him you had fallen in love with someone else

27:18

and that you were leaving him. He

27:21

wasn't in love with you

27:23

or capable of fully loving you, and

27:26

there was some evidence of that in

27:28

his reaction to you ending this relationship.

27:31

And I'm just really, really,

27:34

really, really glad for you that

27:36

that happened before you

27:38

got married, where you scrambled your

27:40

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27:42

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29:20

Hi Dan, I am

29:22

a mid-30s, cis, cis

29:25

woman living on the west coast. And

29:29

I recently met up with this super

29:31

hot guy through fields.

29:34

And when I met up with him, I

29:37

thought that he had

29:39

some feminine ways

29:42

of his demeanor. So we had insane

29:45

chemistry and I wanted to

29:47

go back to his apartment after. So

29:49

I go back to his apartment

29:51

and I noticed

29:53

above his fireplace is

29:56

a little shrine to Timothy

29:58

Charlemagne. And I

30:01

said to him, what is this? He said,

30:03

my little shrine to Timothée Chalamet. And

30:06

I said, oh, you really

30:08

like Timothée Chalamet? He says, yes, absolutely.

30:12

And then I said, oh, well, I really

30:14

love one of the movies he was in. Have you

30:16

seen Call Me By Your Name? And

30:19

he said, yes, it's my absolute

30:21

favorite movie. Now,

30:23

he had straight listed

30:25

on his field profile.

30:27

So I'm curious

30:29

about this interest

30:32

in Timothée Chalamet and

30:34

this love for seeing two

30:36

hot men making out. And

30:39

I'm wondering what this says

30:41

about his interest in

30:44

me. He says that I

30:46

could give Timothée Chalamet a run for his money.

30:49

So he did cancel an official

30:51

date we were going to have

30:53

about 20 minutes before the date,

30:55

saying he got a headache and has his

30:57

rescheduled. So I

31:00

really enjoyed his company. We had

31:02

insane chemistry. I would like

31:04

to go out with him again. So I'm

31:06

a little bit unsure about

31:09

his obsession with Timothée

31:11

Chalamet and his canceling of

31:13

a formal date with me

31:15

and what it all means about what he's

31:17

really into. Do you have

31:19

any insights? Joining me

31:21

to help tackle this question, because why

31:24

not? Comedian and actor Jared Goldstein, he

31:26

was named one of Vulture's comedians you

31:28

should know and will know. His stand

31:30

up can be seen most recently in

31:32

House of Laps on Wow Presents Plus.

31:34

Jared, thank you so much for demeaning

31:36

yourself by coming on my podcast. This

31:39

is a huge, huge favor to you. And

31:41

you're so welcome. I feel like

31:43

you're doing me this huge favor. I have to

31:45

say, I've been a fan forever. I've been following

31:47

you on Instagram. I love your stuff. I think

31:50

you're hysterical whether you're talking

31:52

about your mom or talking about your boyfriend's

31:54

cum. You are funny. Thank

31:57

you. But you're not here to be, do your stand up.

32:00

Give some sex advice. Let's get right to it. I'm

32:02

here for, not for comedy, I'm here for drama. So

32:04

her question, her concern is that he's

32:07

gay because he's obsessed with

32:09

Timothée Chalamet and liked that call me by your

32:11

name movie with the cannibal. What's your ruling on

32:13

that? This is the

32:15

most bisexual thing I've ever heard in my

32:17

life. Canceling a date 20 minutes before because

32:19

you have a headache, this man

32:21

is bi. I was gonna say straight guys

32:23

don't get headaches if there's pussy on tap,

32:25

right? I've never had

32:27

a headache in my life. But

32:31

gay guys don't get headaches? Not

32:33

this one. I have

32:35

a lot of problems, but headaches are not one

32:37

of them. Especially, there's a kind

32:40

of headache override when sex is possible.

32:43

That thing you get when you have a hangover and

32:45

you suddenly start jacking off and you're horny and suddenly

32:47

you don't have a hangover anymore and then you come

32:49

and then you have a hangover again. The fact that

32:52

he canceled for a headache, that may be the worst.

32:54

I was in the 90s? Who cancels for a headache?

32:56

Yeah. I really, I

32:58

need medical proof. Something like I

33:01

need a prescription, I need a

33:03

doctor's note. A headache, maybe

33:05

if it's migraines and you know it's migraines,

33:07

it's a part. But then I think she

33:09

would have said he has migraines and he

33:12

got a migraine. Canceling for a headache, that

33:14

is really bi. Drink

33:16

a glass of water, what are you doing?

33:18

You're saying that's really bi. Yeah.

33:22

That's a bi thing. Also, I don't think

33:24

there are any 100% straight guys on

33:26

field. That's a dating app for the sexually

33:28

adventurous. Yeah. There

33:30

are certainly straight identified guys on field,

33:33

but also arguing against 100% straight and

33:36

maybe four bi is where

33:39

you met him, Collar. You met him on

33:41

field. I mean, they might identify as straight,

33:43

but at the very least they're watching gay

33:45

hentai. At the very least. Or

33:47

Dune, one and two now. There

33:50

you go. He's such a Timothy Chalamet fan. Yeah.

33:53

Timothy Chalamet, one of those straight

33:55

boys who's so pretty,

33:57

he pings on other straight boys. Blackstar,

34:02

I guess so. I don't,

34:04

here's the thing, I love Call Me By Your Name.

34:07

I saw it four times in theaters and

34:09

this is before like movie pass. So

34:12

I paid, I have given

34:14

that man money. But I don't

34:16

think about Timothy Chalamet personally on

34:18

a sexual level. So I

34:20

can't really speak to that. But

34:22

you're gay. I am gay,

34:24

I am gay. And he is handsome, but I'm

34:27

just not, he's not for

34:29

me. And he doesn't care, he doesn't need

34:31

that. But I'm just, as someone

34:33

who's brought on here to talk about Timothy

34:35

Chalamet sexually, I do have

34:37

to just admit, personally, in my home, I am

34:39

not into that. Do you know

34:41

what ruins Timothy Chalamet for me? What?

34:45

His heterosexuality. Sure,

34:47

sure. I feel very fortunate that

34:49

I'm one of those gay guys

34:51

who doesn't find straightness in men

34:53

kind of super extra duper appealing.

34:56

All right, I wouldn't go that far. It's like

34:58

finding out a guy's a smoker. I'm like, ah,

35:00

yeah, ooh. Oh, damn.

35:02

We have different interests. Like,

35:05

mm, uh. But. You've

35:07

never seen someone smoke and thought that looks cool at

35:09

the very least. Everybody I see

35:11

smoking, I think, he's gonna smell like my

35:14

dad. My dad,

35:16

the Chicago cop who smoked. My dad also ruined

35:18

cop uniforms for me. Those don't work on me

35:20

either. Oh, I

35:22

mean, yeah, no, that's a

35:24

simple pass. People who can't

35:26

see you right now, I can see you right now. Everybody

35:29

should go follow Jared on Instagram where he

35:31

posts a clip, which is where I first

35:34

encountered you. You're a

35:36

pretty guy. Thank you. Do

35:39

you sometimes ping onto straight men's sex

35:42

star where they're attracted to you? And

35:46

what do you do with that superpower? With great

35:48

power comes great responsibility. How do you abuse and

35:50

leverage this? You don't, you

35:52

don't. Cause you just, you just get, you

35:54

just get kind of like a, like, I'm

35:56

like a cat toy for them. Jared Goldstein

35:58

named one of Vulture's community. You should

36:00

know and will know you can check out

36:02

his latest stand-up on house of laps on

36:05

Wow presents plus He's

36:07

great. Go look him up on Instagram because that's

36:09

the key to the world now I follow people

36:11

on Instagram I find out when they have books

36:13

coming out when they have new shows coming out

36:15

and What's your Instagram handle again

36:18

at? Hey Jared? Hey There's

36:20

more of my conversation with comedian

36:23

Jared Goldstein on the Magnum savage

36:25

love cast You can hear my

36:27

complete conversation my full conversation with

36:29

Jared by becoming a Magnum sub

36:31

now at Savage dot Hi,

36:35

Dan, I am a mostly

36:37

straight guy in a Relationship

36:41

with a woman and we have

36:43

a really wonderful relationship. It's Everything

36:47

is great. We have

36:49

amazing communication We

36:51

love to spend our time with each other We're

36:54

on the same page when it comes to most

36:56

of our values and the way we

36:58

like to live our life And so I'm

37:00

very grateful to be in

37:02

the partnership that I'm in. I Recently

37:05

read a book called mind the gap.

37:07

It was amazing She had an exercise

37:10

in there about exploring your turn-ons and

37:12

your sexual kinks with your partner and

37:14

so we did this and I've Always

37:19

been attracted to Non-monogamy.

37:22

I used to say that I

37:24

felt like I was non-monogamous at

37:27

some point. I said I was polyamorous I don't know

37:29

if that's true. I don't know really what the right

37:31

label is, but we

37:33

were talking about this and

37:35

kind of came to the the

37:37

conclusion that what

37:40

really turns me on is the

37:43

idea of like being sexual

37:45

with other women and I

37:48

was even able to articulate a scenario

37:50

where I would be giving a friend

37:53

another woman an erotic

37:55

massage And potentially go down on another

37:57

woman and that's a big turn-on for

37:59

me and something I'm

38:01

into. She doesn't

38:03

like this idea at all. She's

38:06

very uncomfortable when we

38:08

talk about it and I

38:10

love her a lot and I don't want

38:12

her to feel uncomfortable. Although

38:14

it will seem like it

38:17

goes to this place where she feels like

38:19

if we can't resolve this then maybe we

38:21

would have to break up and it feels

38:23

a little extreme for me. I don't want

38:25

to break up over this. It's

38:28

not a deal breaker for me. It's

38:30

just something that I

38:32

fantasize about and that is a turn-on for me

38:35

and I don't really know how

38:37

to move forward with that. I

38:39

don't want my girlfriend to be

38:41

uncomfortable but at the same

38:43

time I want to be able to be

38:45

open about what turns me on and what

38:47

I'm interested in and express

38:49

that freely. I guess

38:52

sometimes I'm just struggling about what the right

38:54

thing to do or

38:56

what the right way to move forward

38:59

with that is with her so that

39:01

she feels like she's included and part

39:03

of the decision and you know I

39:05

care about her feelings a lot and

39:08

I don't want to do anything

39:11

to jeopardize what we have but

39:13

I want to be myself. Dude

39:16

you're gonna jeopardize what you have with your

39:18

girlfriend if you don't shut

39:20

the fuck up. It's fine

39:22

that you want to sleep with other

39:24

women go down on other women. That's

39:27

fine and your girlfriend you've

39:29

told her that so she knows that

39:31

even if you hadn't told her that

39:34

that's just something people should

39:36

assume about their sex partners and

39:38

I think your girlfriend is emotionally

39:40

intelligent enough if you're processing this

39:43

varsity level stuff to

39:45

fucking know that so you're

39:47

free to express yourself freely.

39:50

You're free to freely express

39:52

your desire to sleep with

39:54

women who aren't your girlfriend. Just don't

39:56

express that shit to your girlfriend any more

39:58

than you already have. Pay

40:01

her the courtesy and the respect of

40:04

blowing off that steam, not by telling her

40:06

about it, because she's going to experience you

40:09

telling her about it as pressuring her and

40:11

picking at this issue and

40:14

wanting to renegotiate the

40:16

monogamous commitment that you've made to her,

40:18

that you've told her you want to

40:20

honor. She's not going to perceive it

40:22

as you're just being yourself, she's going

40:24

to perceive it as pressure. Express

40:27

this shit freely to the friends you

40:29

blow off steam with about your relationship,

40:32

not necessarily to your

40:34

girlfriend. And when you say,

40:36

I think I might be polyamorous, I used

40:38

to think I might be non-monogamous, polyamory,

40:41

non-monogamy, monogamy, not

40:44

sexual orientations. People are not

40:47

monogamous. Monogamy is something people

40:50

choose to do. Polyamory,

40:52

sometimes poly people, although I'm kind of

40:54

a famously poly person, get upset with

40:56

me when I say this, polyamorous is

40:58

not a sexual orientation. I

41:01

take a pretty conservative view when

41:04

it comes to orientations. If

41:06

it's something that gay

41:08

people can do and straight people can do and

41:10

bisexual people can do and pansexual people can do,

41:12

and in this case even asexual people can do,

41:15

it's not a sex act or

41:17

a sexual orientation. It is a,

41:19

in this case, monogamy, non-monogamy, polyamory.

41:21

It is a relationship model. And

41:24

you have to, if you're going to be

41:26

in a relationship with someone, you have to

41:28

come to an agreement. You have to come

41:30

to a consensus about what that relationship model

41:33

is going to be, the choice that

41:35

you two are going to make. And

41:38

you have put it out there that

41:40

you would prefer to be in a

41:42

non-monogamous relationship. And she has put on

41:44

the table, it's monogamy or nothing. That

41:46

may change. She knows that you would

41:48

like this freedom at some

41:50

point in your life to

41:53

have sex with other women in addition to her.

41:56

If her feelings about this change or evolve,

41:58

she will... let

42:00

you know. In the

42:02

meantime, stop freely expressing this

42:05

shit to her. Go

42:07

find some friends, preferably ones who don't have

42:10

vaginas, who aren't thinking you're trying to get

42:12

into their pants, that you can freely express

42:14

yourself in this way to,

42:16

that you can blow off steam with,

42:19

that you can share your frustration at

42:22

not getting everything you want in your

42:24

relationship. But stop telling

42:27

her what she already

42:29

knows and allow her to

42:31

return to the state of being

42:34

able to suspend her disbelief and

42:36

pretend that for

42:38

now, at least, this isn't true. Do

42:41

her that courtesy. Time

42:44

for a little listener feedback. First

42:46

up, a few comments left on

42:48

last week's show and the very

42:50

lively comment threads at savage.love. We

42:52

talked last week about anal orgasms

42:54

with Dr. Evan Goldstein. I am

42:56

a skeptic, but some call me

42:59

is a believer. Hey, Dan, I'm happy to

43:01

report that I've had three or four anal

43:03

orgasms the first time years ago, just starting

43:05

to explore anal and had a 100% anal

43:07

orgasm. Tried to reproduce it later, but

43:11

wasn't able to come from butt stuff alone

43:13

again on my own. But I had

43:15

two or three anal orgasms during a recent

43:18

vacation with my wife. I took dummies beforehand,

43:20

haven't been able to replicate it without the

43:22

gummy sense. So I wonder if the gummies

43:25

increased relaxation, increased sensitivity or increased my

43:27

ability to get out of my head.

43:29

Easy way to test that hypothesis of yours.

43:32

Some call me get some more goddamn gummies,

43:34

get your butt back in the air and

43:36

get your wife on it

43:38

says echo in the voice about

43:41

the person who had an affair before the

43:43

birth of his children, whose wife wanted him

43:45

to come clean to their children. This is

43:47

absolutely a bid to shame and continue to

43:49

punish this person. There is no benefit

43:51

for the children to be told this information and

43:54

adolescence at that echo

43:56

goes on in her very long comment to

43:58

share the absolutely heartbreaking. story about how

44:00

her husband outed her to their kids not

44:03

as a cheater but as a swinger which

44:05

her husband was too but he blames it

44:07

all on echo. Comments too

44:09

long to share here but go read it

44:11

on the comment threads on last week's show

44:13

at savage.love and if you have the time

44:16

please offer some words of support to echo.

44:18

And finally says Dennis for the

44:20

bottom afraid of being too loose

44:22

and not giving enough pleasure to

44:25

the top not every top loves

44:27

a tight hole some people get

44:29

more excited at light touches

44:31

be it on the skin or on

44:33

the penis I actually prefer it looser

44:35

it feels soft and gentle and that's

44:37

what puts me over the edge. Alright

44:39

for more listener feedback check out struggle

44:42

session where I respond to listener and

44:44

reader comments every Thursday at savage.love that's

44:46

for Magnum subs only become a Magnum

44:49

sub now at savage.love and now for

44:51

everybody listener response calls.

44:55

Hi Dan this is an abortion worker with some information

44:57

that might be helpful to people in Louisiana right now.

44:59

For the people who are

45:01

trying to use miso and Miphy the

45:03

M&Ms there are two ways that you

45:05

can use miso one is to insert

45:07

the tablets vaginally and let them dissolve

45:09

there for half an hour the other

45:12

is to insert them in the mouth in between

45:14

the cheeks and gums and let them dissolve there

45:16

for half an hour both methods are safe both

45:18

methods are effective but there can

45:20

be remnants left behind with the vaginal method

45:22

that could be used in a court of

45:24

law if you do the cheeks and gum method

45:27

you can leave the tablets there to dissolve for half an

45:29

hour then you can take a

45:31

drink of water use mouthwash or whatever squish

45:33

those things around and then they will no

45:35

longer be visible to a doctor or nurse

45:37

or anyone in the event that you have

45:39

to go to the ER or to see

45:41

a physician. Wish this was an advice I

45:43

needed to give but hopefully it helps. This

45:46

is response for the caller in the

45:48

last episode who wanted to know if

45:50

he should tell his children about his

45:52

affair. I am the child

45:55

of two parents that had an

45:57

affair please don't please don't

45:59

I've so much money on therapy,

46:02

discussing my parents'

46:05

relationships or my parents' relationships.

46:08

They're none of my business. I don't want to hear about it. Your

46:11

kids will thank you later. I

46:13

found out at a very young age because my parents told

46:15

me I think they thought it was the right thing to

46:17

do and I think it's the most fucked up thing that

46:19

they could have done. Please don't

46:21

tell your kids. Please don't tell your kids. Let

46:24

your wife hear this. Please don't tell your kids. Hi

46:26

Dan. I'm calling to respond to the woman

46:28

who wanted to dabble in or return to

46:30

sex work as a sugar baby but doesn't

46:33

actually want to necessarily have to have sex

46:35

and doesn't want it to be a requirement

46:38

or expectation. I'm a

46:40

10 year veteran of sex work in

46:42

almost every capacity and I'm going to

46:44

level with you that is

46:46

truly delusional. We've all

46:48

had the pretty woman fantasy where Richard

46:51

Gere pays us to sit around and look

46:53

pretty because we're just so interesting and so

46:55

unique and we're just not like the other

46:57

girls. But that isn't a reality,

46:59

at least not in 99.99% of cases in sex work. And

47:04

like Dan said in his response, you can

47:07

start by putting no sex in your ads

47:09

either on seeking arrangements or on Twitter which

47:11

by now I think we can all agree

47:13

we will never call X. But

47:15

in the vast majority of cases dudes

47:17

are seeking a sugar baby because they're

47:20

looking for a less expensive version of

47:22

a hooker and I can say that

47:24

because I've been a very inexpensive hooker.

47:27

You can try the site Cuddle

47:29

Up for like non-sexual intimacy but

47:31

just remember that sex work is

47:33

called sex work for a reason

47:35

and if all of us sex

47:37

workers only had sex when we

47:39

were turned on and spoiled by

47:41

some handsome sugar daddies or mommies,

47:43

we'd never actually be having sex.

47:46

It's called sex work because we're

47:48

generally having sex or being sexual

47:50

when we're not turned on because we have

47:52

to do it to earn a living and that's what

47:54

makes it a job. And

47:58

we're gonna leave it there. We've

48:00

got three great ways for you to get us

48:02

your questions or comments for future shows or you

48:05

can request your comment at savage.love.ask. And

48:07

or you can make a voice memo and your

48:09

very own phone and email us your question or

48:11

comment at q at savage.love

48:13

or call our landline and leave us

48:15

a message at 206-302-2064. The

48:20

spring tour of Hump 2024 Part

48:23

1 in theaters wrapped up over the weekend

48:25

but Part 1 of Hump 2024 is now

48:27

streaming online. For

48:30

everybody who didn't make it to

48:32

a theater, go to humpfilmfest.com/streaming and

48:34

watch Hump now in your

48:37

own home anywhere in the world.

48:40

Now is also the perfect time to get

48:42

started on your submission for Hump 2025. Go

48:45

to humpfilmfest.com/submit to learn how to

48:47

make the perfect dirty little film

48:50

for our wonderful dirty little film

48:52

festival. There is no charge. There

48:54

has never been a charge to

48:56

enter Hump. Every filmmaker whose

48:58

film makes it into the show gets a cut

49:00

of every ticket sold. Thousands of dollars

49:02

every year annually going to each and

49:05

every filmmaker. You can

49:07

find all the info you

49:09

need on making and submitting

49:11

your film for Hump at

49:13

humpfilmfest.com/submit. Follow me on Instagram and

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49:17

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49:19

can still find me on the bad

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place at fake Dan Savage. Follow Jared

49:23

Goldstein on threads and Instagram at hey

49:25

jared hey. The Savage Lovecast is produced

49:27

every week by Nancy Hurtunian and me

49:29

and Nancy and the tech-savvy

49:31

actress who the whole gochajune gang will

49:34

be back at you next week for

49:36

another installment of the Savage Lovecast. Thank

49:39

you for downloading.