4:00

when you queer it, when you turn it and look at

4:02

it from a different point

4:04

of view. These people, this small,

4:06

vocal minority of queer people, they're

4:09

doing the rest of us, but

4:12

they don't want it pride a favor. Because

4:15

someone who tells someone else that they're not

4:17

wanted at pride is providing that person they

4:19

just told isn't wanted at pride with an

4:21

opportunity to be defiant and do

4:23

what the people who showed up at that

4:25

first pride parade did. Ignore

4:28

the haters who said we

4:30

weren't wanted and marched down

4:32

the street anyway. Yeah,

4:34

yeah, I get it. It sucks that the people

4:36

saying you're not wanted at pride that so many

4:39

of them these days are other queer people. And

4:42

it's ironic that the queer people who wanna

4:44

control, who is and isn't

4:46

allowed at pride, the queer

4:48

people who wanna police pride are

4:51

invariably the same people who don't want cops

4:53

at pride. Turns out they do

4:55

want cops at pride. They just wanna be the

4:57

cops at pride. And like complaints

4:59

about gay boys and speedos dancing on

5:01

flatbed trucks, the existence of

5:03

queer people who don't think the wrong kind

5:06

of queer people should be marching down the

5:08

street or any queer people should be marching

5:10

down the street, nothing new. When

5:12

I first came out, the gay

5:14

men I met could be divided into two

5:16

groups. The guys who marched and the guys

5:18

who told their straight friends if they were

5:21

out to them, that sure, they

5:23

were gay, but they weren't the kind

5:25

of radical gay who marched down the

5:27

street. The message then, the message

5:30

now, fuck them. Fuck the

5:32

straight haters who don't want you to

5:34

exist. They're still out there. And fuck

5:36

the queer haters who tell other queers

5:38

they're not wanted at pride. The

5:41

proper response to that kind of queer, but

5:43

you're not wanted queers, isn't

5:46

to stay home or get

5:48

on social media and complain about how

5:50

you're the most depressed. We

5:52

should respond to them. The same way

5:54

we respond to the fundamentalist Christian counter

5:56

protesters at Pride every year with

5:58

their gays burning hell. I've

25:35

been traveling a bit lately, but no matter

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and back sleeping positions. dynamics,

28:00

vulnerabilities, fear.

28:03

And so I feel like there's a certain

28:05

kind of therapeutic relationship between him and the

28:07

participants. And yeah,

28:09

more than once it's happened that he's started

28:12

having a sexual or romantic

28:15

relationship. I talked with him about

28:17

it in a

28:19

team meeting. He was open to

28:21

like take it further and talk about it more.

28:23

And he seemed to want to understand why

28:26

this might be weird or

28:28

wrong. And now

28:30

he's asked me to help him develop

28:33

guidelines about it because he also trains

28:35

other facilitators. And

28:37

so the idea is that our

28:39

organization has some general guidelines about

28:42

how a facilitator should

28:45

have relationships or not. I mean, when we

28:47

talked about it in our meeting,

28:50

he seemed to be going

28:52

for the option of like, you

28:55

know, maybe after the retreats finished, if

28:57

you see them somewhere around in daily

28:59

life, and they seem interested, then it's

29:01

okay to start dating

29:04

them. To me, it feels weird.

29:06

Like if I was a facilitator in a

29:09

group setting, I just wouldn't start a relationship

29:11

with somebody who was there as a participant.

29:13

But I get that it's a really

29:16

great area. Just wondering if you have

29:18

any advice on this. Like are there

29:20

guidelines? Obviously, we're in the

29:22

UK and Europe. So maybe it's different in the

29:24

US. But are there any organizations

29:27

that give guidelines

29:29

on this? I had a look online, I

29:31

couldn't really see anything. But I

29:33

also feel like this is an area that's

29:36

really ripe for power abuse,

29:39

for crossing boundaries,

29:42

for sexual abuse

29:44

dynamics. One of the

29:46

pieces of advice I'm constantly giving people

29:49

who might want to get

29:52

laid is to go

29:54

places, do things, meet people,

29:56

leave the fucking house, go do something. And something

29:58

about that is really important. care.

36:01

Hi Dan, mid-40s straight woman calling

36:03

in from Chicago and I have

36:05

a question about spaces. So

36:08

I'm super hot for like leathery

36:10

gay male scenes like I think

36:12

it would be amazing to go

36:14

to Folsom or I know that

36:17

international male leather was just in

36:19

Chicago last weekend but I

36:21

know that these aren't my spaces to be

36:23

in and I don't know if coming to like

36:25

a dance party like that would bother the

36:27

guys that are there because this is a space

36:29

clearly they've carved out for their community which

36:31

I'm not a part of. I've been to gay

36:33

bars, I've danced with folks, you know you

36:36

see girls there, the place is on Broadway

36:39

and places like that in

36:41

Chicago but I feel those like leather scene

36:43

places are a little bit different. I

36:46

think they just seem super sexy and

36:48

hot guys being so free dancing, their

36:50

harnesses, I just think it's super hot

36:53

but I'm sensitive to not infringing on

36:55

spaces that aren't mine. What do you

36:57

think and do you think people would

37:00

mind a straight woman in her 40s showing

37:02

up to a leather party like that? Well

37:06

thank you for asking and

37:08

you have my permission to

37:10

go to Folsom San Francisco

37:12

or IML in Chicago next

37:14

year when it rolls around a Memorial

37:17

Day weekend. Look as

37:20

a woman at one of these events there

37:22

may be some guys there

37:24

who aren't psyched to see you

37:28

but I gotta say like there are tons of women at particularly

37:31

Folsom SF. If

37:34

you want to be one of the women

37:36

at Folsom SF or at IML there are

37:38

lots of women at IML. Here's

37:40

a couple of tips for being

37:42

one of the women at one of

37:44

these primarily gay male leather fetish events

37:46

who isn't hated

37:49

or resented by a certain significant percentage of the

37:51

gay men there. Most of the gay men there

37:53

no problem with it used to it there are

37:56

tons of women at Folsom

37:58

SF in particular. I'd

38:00

say the event is 40% women, if

38:02

not more at

38:04

this stage. But here's a couple

38:07

of tips. If you don't want to get

38:09

the side eye from gay

38:12

men who are looking at you like, what the

38:14

fuck are you doing here? Don't treat it like

38:16

Halloween. Don't go in

38:18

your Maleficent costume. Get some

38:20

leather fetish gear and go

38:22

in your leather fetish gear. You don't have

38:24

to go disguised as a gay man. You

38:27

can go in pro-dom leather fetish

38:29

gear, but turn yourself out a little

38:31

bit. Send a signal that you get

38:34

that it's a leather fetish kink event

38:36

and that you have enough respect for everybody

38:39

who is gathering at this leather fetish

38:41

kink event, in

38:43

part to be surrounded by other people

38:45

who are into leather and into fetish,

38:47

for that to become the baseline in

38:49

this space at this time briefly, and

38:52

the norm that you respect that desire

38:54

enough to show up, not

38:57

in khakis and a Christmas sweater, but

38:59

in leather fetish

39:01

gear, in rubber, in kink

39:04

gear. It's

39:06

not Halloween. Don't treat it

39:08

like Halloween. Also, it's

39:10

not a petting zoo or a

39:12

zoo zoo. Don't

39:15

touch the gay men.

39:17

Totally fine that the sight of lots

39:19

of gay men and harnesses dancing

39:21

or making out turns you on.

39:24

Fine, but you don't get to

39:26

move through the crowd touching

39:29

guys, which I have seen

39:31

women do, at IML

39:34

and Folsom, which women have done

39:37

at these events, to

39:39

men I was attending these events with,

39:42

who it wasn't girl cooties, girl

39:44

germs that they had a problem with. It was

39:47

non-consensual touch,

39:50

which is never okay, no matter who does

39:52

it, to whom. But if you're at

39:54

a big gay event, you should

39:56

probably just assume that nobody

39:59

wants you to do it. You can touch them, nobody who's

40:01

gay and male at these events. They're not just

40:03

gay men at these events, of course. And

40:06

it's not a zoo-zoo either. You don't wanna

40:08

be, and I'm embarrassed to repeat

40:10

this phrase, and I think the gay

40:12

man who I first heard used this

40:14

phrase is a terrible person. You

40:17

don't wanna be at IML and

40:19

be one of the bitches from work that

40:21

the gay guy, who's not kinky, told about

40:23

the event and brought to the event so

40:25

they could stare and titter

40:28

and gawk from the corner. Like,

40:31

it's a zoo-zoo. Like, they're at the

40:33

zoo. Not at the petting zoo, they're not touching, but they're staring

40:36

and gawking. You wanna fit in. You

40:39

wanna show respect for the kinksters and the fetishes

40:41

who are turning it out at this event and

40:43

turn yourself out at this event too. And

40:46

I promise you, go to Folsom SF. You

40:48

will not be the only woman.

40:51

You will be one of the thousands of women

40:53

there. If you wanna be one of

40:55

the women there that the gay men there in

40:57

gear are excited to see, be one

40:59

of the women there in gear. And

41:02

be one of the women there who's

41:04

not staring or tittering or taking pictures

41:06

or touching the fags

41:08

who are there in gear to

41:10

be touched by, consensually, other fags.

41:13

And you will be not just

41:16

welcomed, but you will be embraced.

41:19

Consensually, perhaps, at some point, the guys

41:22

there are not going to riot when

41:25

you walk in. But if you

41:27

walk in like you belong and you

41:29

are kinky yourself, nobody's

41:33

gonna object to you being there. And I promise you, an

41:35

hour after you get there, couple of

41:37

drinks in, you'll probably be chatting with some of

41:39

the guys in harnesses who, if

41:41

you really brought it, if

41:44

you're in an amazing outfit, will

41:46

be showering you with compliments and getting

41:48

your next drink. All

41:51

right, time for some listener feedback. First up,

41:53

some of the comments left on last week's

41:55

show in the very lively comment threads at

41:58

savage.love. pentatonic to the

42:00

guy whose girlfriend is hung up on her ex,

42:03

hang in there and be patient. I was

42:05

hung up on an ex before in a

42:07

new relationship. And while it took me some

42:09

time to get over my ex, every week,

42:11

the allure of the ex faded slightly and

42:13

I was able to appreciate more and more

42:15

the person I was with. Says

42:18

sex coach Shannon, gonna gently disagree with

42:20

the 10 year sex worker in the

42:22

response calls last week. The vast majority

42:25

of dudes looking for sugar babies may

42:27

be looking for a less expensive hooker,

42:30

but the original caller isn't looking for those

42:32

dudes. She's looking for just one man eager

42:34

to spend money on a woman who will

42:36

shower him with attention, compliments and

42:38

meaningful conversation with the added benefit

42:41

of a delicious will we or

42:43

won't we sexual tension. If the

42:45

original caller confidently owns her role,

42:48

there are men out there who

42:50

will happily pay good money for

42:52

that special dynamic. And finally

42:54

says banner pup would totally love to

42:56

see Dan do a sex and politics

42:59

or just a bonus podcast because I'm

43:01

greedy on the benefits of monarchy. I

43:03

will set that up. Banner

43:06

pub I am inviting now sending the

43:08

email out to King Charles III, hoping

43:10

he finally comes on the show. Also

43:13

I wanted to note for the caller

43:15

whose ex fiance was arrested for sex

43:17

crimes. There are messages from Beanie and

43:19

Cleo in the comments, people who went

43:22

through similarly harrowing experiences

43:24

that are too long to share here,

43:26

but heartfelt and wise and I hope

43:28

the original caller sees them.

43:30

Also lots of informative and supportive

43:32

comments at savage.love on

43:34

last week's show from Beatrice, Steffie

43:36

Kim, Sarah R and Mathison Lee

43:39

for the caller with breast cancer

43:41

who's facing a choice between a

43:43

single and double mastectomy. Every

43:45

week I dive into the comments at

43:47

savage.love and the community, our small community

43:50

there proves every week that savage.love is

43:52

the one place on the internet where

43:54

you should always read the

43:56

comments and I wanna thank everybody for that.

43:58

All right, there's more listener. But

46:00

it sounds like if you drink more and earlier,

46:02

by the time you get there, you'll

46:04

be ready to pee on them. And by the time you're done,

46:07

you'll be ready to pee on them again. Hey

46:09

Dan, this is a response call to the

46:12

caller who asked what their sex dreams meant.

46:14

And I just wanted to thank you for

46:16

your response saying they don't mean anything. Because

46:19

last night I had a sex

46:22

dream about you. And

46:25

we're going to leave it there. We've got

46:28

three ways for you to get us your

46:30

questions or comments for future shows. You can

46:32

record your question or comment at savage.love.askdam. Or

46:35

you can make a voice memo on your

46:37

phone and email your question or comment to

46:39

q at savage.love. Or you can call our

46:41

landline and leave us a message at 206-302-2064. Hump

46:47

2024 Part 1 is available to stream right

46:49

now in the privacy of your own home.

46:51

If you missed the spring tour in theaters

46:53

or you just want to watch it one

46:55

more time, go to

46:57

humphfilmfest.com and stream Hump today.

47:00

And of course, watch for Hump

47:02

2024 Part 2 coming this fall.

47:05

And again, this Thursday, noon Pacific time,

47:07

I will be hosting Savage Love Live

47:10

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47:12

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47:14

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47:18

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47:23

right now when you get online to get

47:25

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47:27

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47:29

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47:32

Dan. Or you can make a voice memo

47:34

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47:36

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47:39

Follow me on Instagram and threads

47:41

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47:43

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47:45

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47:50

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47:56

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47:58

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