0:00

You're listening to the micro version of

0:02

The Savage Lovecast at savage.love. If

0:05

you're stuck in a relationship

0:08

quandary, or if you're looking

0:10

for sexual harmony, well

0:15

there's nothing you can't cast

0:19

on The Savage Lovecast.

0:23

Addison Smith got engaged,

0:25

everybody. Smith, you know

0:27

Addison Smith, the host of In Focus

0:29

with Addison Smith on the Real Talk

0:31

Radio Network? That's Charlie Kirk and Rudy

0:33

Giuliani and Steve Bannon's outfit. His

0:36

show is on every day. I checked, it's an actual show.

0:38

On every day from 3 to 4 a.m. So

0:43

yeah, not exactly prime radio real

0:46

estate. Addison claims he's the

0:48

youngest talk show host in America, and since

0:50

I can't cut Addison in half and count

0:52

the rings, there is no way for me

0:54

to verify that. But what Addison

0:56

may be most famous for, at least as of

0:58

last week, was the tweet he

1:00

posted announcing his engagement. Pride

1:02

month is so defeated. Addison tweeted out,

1:04

along with a photo of him proposing

1:06

to his girlfriend in June,

1:09

and his girlfriend apparently

1:11

said yes to the mess. What

1:14

Addison would have us believe the assertion

1:16

he's making to his followers is

1:19

that gay people don't want straight people to

1:21

be straight, that we don't want

1:23

you to date each other, get married,

1:25

or have kids, and like

1:27

so much else from the right, the

1:30

pure projection. They don't want

1:32

us, right-wing straight people, don't want us,

1:34

don't want gay people to date or

1:36

get married or have kids. We're fine

1:38

with you getting married and having kids

1:40

and doing all the things. Love is

1:42

love, as they say. But

1:45

I think the most important message here,

1:47

the one Addison was really invested in

1:49

getting across, is that Addison Smith

1:51

got engaged to a lady with lady parts.

1:54

But I gotta say, Addison, Addie, Addie

1:56

baby, if all you're thinking about

1:58

when you get down on a one knee

2:00

to propose to your girlfriend is

2:03

how much the guys whose dicks you totally

2:05

don't want to get down on both knees

2:07

to suck are going to be saddened to

2:10

learn you're marrying a lady which means they're

2:12

going to have to find other guys

2:14

maybe at pride which remains undefeated to suck

2:17

their dicks because Addison Smith is a lot

2:19

of things the youngest talk show host in

2:21

America and a troll and a homophobe but

2:23

Addison Smith is not a

2:25

cocksucker we all know how this

2:28

ends right Addison Smith right

2:30

now is running around bragging about how he

2:32

totally owned the Queer to Lib tards because

2:34

his tweet did get all

2:36

a big reaction online but

2:39

Addison is young and so

2:41

Addison doesn't know how this

2:43

story how stories like his

2:45

almost invariably play out over

2:47

time he may not

2:49

know where and how this ends but we

2:52

know where and how this ends it

2:54

ends in a truck stop or in a

2:57

bathroom or in a hotel room or

2:59

in a rent boy speaking of

3:02

pride which i predict will outlive

3:04

Addison Smith's marriage and Addison Smith's

3:06

heterosexuality there is a bakery here

3:08

in seattle that is selling rainbow

3:11

croissants that look amazing

3:13

they looked so amazing when i saw them online

3:15

i went and got some i don't know how

3:17

they do it it's a normal croissant on the

3:19

outside but it becomes this little pride

3:22

parade of a croissant when you pull it apart like

3:25

the end of Addison Smith's story the

3:27

jewel-toned colors of the rainbow flag are

3:30

baked in i

3:32

saw another post on social media about pride last week a

3:35

lesbian on threads saying that she didn't

3:37

like listening to the complaints of right-wingers

3:39

about all the rainbows everywhere in june

3:42

she didn't want to give the haters an

3:44

inch but after riding a rainbow striped subway

3:46

car to the airport and boarding a plane

3:48

covered with a giant rainbow decal and being

3:50

handed a rainbow cocktail napkin along with her

3:53

pride themed pre-flight rainbow

3:56

cocktail she found

3:58

herself wondering how much affirmation was

4:00

was too much affirmation and where

4:03

the affirmation ends and the marketing

4:05

begins. I was thinking

4:07

the same thing as I waited for the light

4:09

to change at the Rainbow Stripe crosswalk under the

4:11

rainbow banners hanging from the light poles wondering whether

4:14

the cop in the Rainbow Stripe squad

4:16

car was gonna give me a ticket if I decided

4:18

to jaywalk on my way to the bakery to pick

4:20

up some Rainbow Stripe croissants. Yeah,

4:23

yeah, sometimes a lot

4:25

of rainbows. That's the

4:27

complaint of corporations and city governments

4:30

ignore us, they don't put up the rainbow flag, we feel slighted.

4:33

If right wingers scare them off, see but

4:35

light, we feel outraged by the betrayal, but

4:38

when they pile it on, we feel

4:41

patronized somehow. The

4:44

sweet spot, not too much rainbow, not too

4:46

little rainbow, just the right amount of rainbow

4:49

has never been hit. That

4:51

said, it is really easy for

4:53

us in the West to be

4:55

cynical about this stuff,

4:58

about pride, about the rainbow cocktails

5:00

and rainbow subway cars and rainbow

5:02

croissants and be jaded, roll

5:04

our eyes. I was reminded

5:07

of that when I got a call

5:09

this week from a listener in Kiev. I'm just

5:11

gonna play the call for you now. Hi,

5:14

Dan. At the beginning

5:16

of your next episode, can you

5:18

please, please talk about the

5:21

Pride March, the Equality Pride

5:23

March in Ukraine? It

5:27

was the world's shortest

5:30

and probably most essential Pride

5:33

March. We walked for 100

5:36

meters. We were allowed

5:38

to walk for 100 meters. We

5:41

literally crossed a street, but

5:44

every single step meant

5:47

the world to us. There

5:50

were queer soldiers who

5:52

are protecting our

5:54

land and our people on the

5:56

front lines every day. They were

5:58

the loved ones. of

6:02

soldiers, there were queer

6:04

people of Ukraine who just

6:08

wanted to live in a

6:10

free country and

6:13

just want to get away from

6:15

the Russian colonial anti-gay

6:18

propaganda and agenda. So

6:20

please, it would mean so much to so

6:22

many of us if you just share your

6:25

words of support. A

6:28

reminder to my fellow Americans, the

6:30

authoritarians here who threaten our democracy

6:32

and our freedoms, they first fell

6:34

in love with Putin and Putinism

6:36

when he passed Russia's Don't Say

6:38

Gay Law in 2013. That's

6:41

how much they hate us, still. Which

6:44

makes pride and all of it sometimes

6:46

ridiculous excess necessary

6:50

and important and meaningful,

6:53

still. So, happy pride

6:55

everybody. A shout out

6:57

to all the brave LGBT people and

7:00

allies who marched in Kyiv's pride parade

7:02

earlier this month. Your

7:04

bravery, your longing to enjoy the freedoms

7:06

we have here and sometimes take for

7:08

granted even as they are under threat,

7:11

your bravery is an inspiration to queer people

7:14

all over the world. So yeah, I'm going to

7:16

shout out my listeners in Kyiv. I'm

7:18

wishing you a happy pride and

7:21

a free and whole and liberated

7:23

Ukraine. Quick programming note, we're

7:25

going to be on vacation next week. Me and

7:27

Nancy and the tech savvy at risk youth are

7:29

heading off to enjoy the holiday in a secret

7:32

undisclosed location. So we will not

7:34

have a new love cast for

7:36

you next Tuesday. Magnum subs

7:38

next Tuesday will get a new sex

7:40

and politics. My conversation with Amanda Markot,

7:43

senior political writer for salon. Look for

7:45

that in your feeds. Magnum subs on

7:48

Tuesday. If you'd like to become a Magnum sub, you can

7:50

become a Magnum sub right now at

7:52

savage.love. Slash subscribe. All

7:54

right. Coming up on today's show on the

7:57

micro tons of your cues, lots of my

7:59

A's and joining. on the Magnum. Leo

8:01

Herrera is back. He has a new

8:04

book out called Analog Cruising. Leo is

8:07

on a mission to get gay and bi

8:09

men off the apps and back into the

8:11

three big Bs, the bathhouses, the back rooms,

8:14

and the bars. Leo and

8:16

I talk about what apps did for us, what they've

8:18

cost us, and how gay and

8:20

bi men can strike a balance between the

8:23

apps and IRL cruising.

8:26

All that coming up on today's show. This

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episode of the Savage Lovecast is brought to you

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8:57

savage. Hi, Dan. I

8:59

am a woman in my early 30s,

9:01

married to a man in his early 30s. We've

9:04

been together about 10 years

9:06

now and have been either

9:09

talking about or acting on non-monogamy for

9:11

about the past five years. My question

9:14

is around how to make sure we're

9:17

consuming reputable and

9:19

quality content when it comes

9:21

to topics like non-monogamy, sex,

9:24

sexuality, etc. I ask

9:28

this because my husband and I

9:30

have very differing interests in non-monogamy.

9:32

For me, it's more of a

9:34

hobby. For him, it's more of

9:36

an identity. In the last year, my husband

9:39

has really leaned into this

9:41

identity and has been taking workshops

9:43

and classes and done some coaching

9:45

sessions. I think that's

9:47

great. More recently, he approached me

9:49

about a coaching series.

9:51

He wants to start with a

9:54

woman who talks a lot about

9:56

divine femininity and masculinity and coaches

9:59

men's So,

16:00

several years ago, my husband and I

16:02

started conversations about my bisexuality and the

16:04

potential for me to explore this by

16:06

opening up our relationship. Over a

16:08

year ago, I met an awesome woman and we're now

16:11

in a loving relationship. My husband is

16:13

very supportive and gets along well with my partner

16:15

and the relationship between my husband and I has

16:17

never been better. Now for the confounding variables. My

16:19

husband and I have a singleton in twins, nine

16:22

and under, and we live together

16:24

with my in-laws. This includes a

16:26

father-in-law with advanced dementia. My

16:29

husband, girlfriend and I would like to be

16:31

open about our arrangement with my mother-in-law. My

16:33

husband and I would like to involve my

16:35

girlfriend in our daily lives more. She

16:37

believe in her a lot. She's already enthusiastically involved

16:40

with helping out with the kids. My mother-in-law is

16:42

open-minded and prides herself in being a rebellious soul,

16:44

but she still is a victim of

16:46

her generation in some ways. She just turned

16:48

70. We are

16:50

open with many of our friends and some

16:52

family. We're currently lying by omission to my

16:54

mother-in-law, however, by not keeping her or bringing

16:56

her into the loop. Also, the longer we

16:59

go without telling her, the worse her

17:01

reaction could be in the case that she finds out

17:03

in some roundabout way. We

17:05

can't really fold my girlfriend into our lives more

17:07

without telling her, seeing as how we all live

17:09

together. I should also note that my girlfriend and

17:12

mother-in-law have met many times in different social

17:15

situations, and my mother-in-law seems to

17:17

genuinely enjoy my girlfriend. We

17:19

don't want the in-laws to move out as we plan on

17:21

caring for them as they age and place. Additionally,

17:24

my mother-in-law is in awesome support with our

17:26

young children and is an important member of our

17:28

family. We also spread the care for my

17:30

father-in-law across all the adults in the house. We

17:33

want to continue to foster a loving household for our

17:35

family and include my girlfriend as another support to all

17:37

of us and for us to her. As

17:39

an aside, we'd like to explain our arrangement to the kiddos,

17:42

but we can't really do that without grandma knowing too. Any

17:45

advice on how we might approach this conversation

17:47

in hopes of getting my mother-in-law's buy-in? Do

17:50

we need some sort of permission or okay from her

17:52

as a valued member of the household? I'm

17:54

thinking my husband should lead the charge in this

17:56

conversation. My mother-in-law doesn't have a

17:58

great history of being a good communicator. The

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25:28

Dan. I'm a cishet lady on

25:30

the West Coast. I'm in my mid

25:33

30s. I'm calling because I have

25:35

a friend that I love

25:37

and care about so much. And then

25:40

there's her boyfriend who I just

25:43

really strongly feel is not

25:45

good enough for her mainly

25:47

because he is dealing with

25:49

some intense mental health issues

25:51

and is

25:53

not ready to get therapy or

25:55

see a psychiatrist. And

25:58

it's putting a lot

26:00

of pressure on my friend to

26:02

be his sole emotional support and

26:06

it's really pissing me off. I'm struggling

26:08

with how I can bring this up

26:10

to her in a loving way that

26:12

is helpful to her and doesn't just

26:14

feel like I'm shitting

26:16

on her boyfriend because he's

26:19

not a bad person, he's unwell,

26:22

but he's also refusing

26:24

to get better and

26:26

I feel not treating my

26:29

friend the way she deserves to be treated. Shit

26:32

on your friend's boyfriend, shit away,

26:34

let loose. However

26:36

you put it, however you try to couch

26:38

or frame it, if your friend

26:41

reacts defensively, takes it in the wrong

26:43

way, even if you set it in

26:45

the nicest possible most

26:47

considerate, careful way, they're going to regard it,

26:49

they're going to take it as you

26:52

taking a huge fucking dump on

26:55

their boyfriend and their relationship. And so

26:57

you might as well just

26:59

be direct, say the thing that

27:01

you want to say, your boyfriend

27:04

is unwell, your boyfriend has mental

27:06

health challenges, you are not a

27:09

therapist, you are not a counselor, you are

27:11

not equipped to provide him with the help

27:14

that he needs, he's on fire and you

27:16

are at the fire department. And

27:20

yeah, sometimes you have to hear

27:22

from someone else outside your relationship

27:24

that what you think is going

27:26

on inside your relationship is

27:29

obviously to others, not

27:31

good, not good for you and in

27:33

the end not good for him. If he regards

27:35

her as the reason why he doesn't have to

27:38

seek help from a professional or seek the kind

27:40

of help that might get

27:42

him better, then the longer she's

27:44

there beside him, the longer

27:47

it delays him getting the help

27:49

that he actually needs. Sometimes

27:52

we get this into our

27:55

head that this person who is on

27:57

fire, we can't walk away from

27:59

because they're on fire. on fire. And

28:01

if that person realizes that we are

28:03

staying with them because they're on fire,

28:05

they don't have an incentive. And

28:08

this can be a subconscious process, a conscious

28:10

process to put the fucking fire out. If

28:13

I know, so long as I'm unemployed

28:15

or unhealthy or fucked up or reeling

28:17

that you will be there for me,

28:19

how do I keep you here for

28:21

me? I keep fucking

28:24

up. I keep reeling. I keep being unhealthy

28:26

so that you continue to dance attendance upon

28:28

me. It can be consciously a manipulative strategy

28:30

to keep somebody in your life, to trap

28:33

somebody in a relationship on

28:35

the part of someone who's unwell. But I think often it's

28:38

the subconscious, toxic, codependent

28:42

dynamic. And if that's what's

28:44

going on in your friend's relationship, she might

28:47

not be able to see it or might think

28:49

that no one else can see it and hopes

28:51

to that in time she can

28:53

persuade him to get better or that she can magically

28:56

fix him herself somehow. And

29:00

hearing from you that she

29:03

probably can't do that and that she

29:06

needs to get out of this relationship for

29:08

her own sake and his, that might

29:11

be what she needs. Sometimes we need permission from

29:14

someone else to do a difficult

29:16

thing, a hard thing, a thing that we think

29:18

makes us look bad. I abandoned him when he

29:21

was unwell. We

29:25

need permission from our friends, from our family,

29:27

from our support network to

29:29

do that difficult thing that we

29:31

worry others might interpret as

29:33

a negative about

29:35

us. And to hear from your best friend that

29:37

not only am I not going to see it

29:40

that way, but that it is a positive that

29:42

you will be if she dumps him on your advice

29:44

after you take this shit on her, that

29:47

she will be taking care of herself and

29:51

perhaps persuading him to go

29:53

get help, to take care of himself in a

29:55

way that she is not able to take care

29:57

of him. Yeah, so shit away. Be

30:01

direct. Send her the link

30:03

to this episode of the podcast so that she

30:05

can hear your question where you're unselfconsciously speaking to

30:08

your friend by speaking about your friend and listen

30:11

to my response too. It's

30:13

a difficult position that you're in. This is

30:15

a hard thing to do

30:17

and I feel for you, but this

30:19

is what friends are for. This is

30:22

a moment like this is when we need a friend to

30:24

come through for us and say the hard

30:26

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you go to D-I-P-S-E-A stories. Hi, Dan.

32:08

I'm in a relationship with a man that

32:11

we've been dating almost three years now. And

32:14

from the beginning, we've

32:16

talked about non-monogamy. He

32:20

came out of a long marriage thinking

32:22

that he wanted to be

32:25

ethically non-monogamous. And

32:28

we pretty much have been monogamous over

32:30

these three years, except for

32:32

we have experimented with three

32:34

sums, and he's

32:37

encouraged me to play with other

32:39

people in hopes

32:41

that in doing so I

32:43

will kind of shift my perspective

32:45

on non-monogamy and become open to

32:47

him dating other people. So

32:50

now we're at a point where

32:52

he is seeing someone else, and

32:55

he's only been with her three times,

32:57

but every time

32:59

I have an extremely

33:01

physical trauma response, like

33:04

sick to my stomach,

33:06

throw up, feel

33:08

like my world is ending

33:10

a little bit, and

33:13

yeah, I feel like I can't do

33:15

it again. And then we go through

33:17

a cycle of like trying to

33:20

be monogamous again, and then

33:22

he expresses his desire for

33:24

wanting to try

33:27

this again, and I say I'm willing, and then

33:29

we do it again, the same thing happens again.

33:31

And I'm just not warming

33:33

up to it. What I'm wondering

33:35

is, is there a

33:37

way to change how I feel about

33:39

him being with someone else? I

33:43

understand like all the arguments

33:45

for non-monogamy rationally and intellectually,

33:47

it makes sense to me.

33:50

But when it comes down to

33:52

experiencing it, it's like very painful

33:54

for me. Maybe

33:56

from some of the trauma

33:58

I've experienced earlier. in life

34:00

with relationships, my family

34:02

relationships as well as with loved

34:05

ones, but as

34:07

it comes down to it, it

34:09

feels like there's no compromise between

34:11

monogamy and non-monogamy and either I

34:14

have to find a way to be okay

34:16

with it or he has to agree to

34:18

be monogamous or we have

34:21

to end our relationship, which neither

34:23

of us want to do. Do you

34:25

have any advice? I've

34:27

said before there's no compromise between

34:30

monogamy and non-monogamy, kind of a

34:32

binary. You're either monogamous or

34:35

you're not, but actually

34:37

there are a lot of couples out there who

34:39

regard we only play together as

34:41

a compromise between monogamy and non-monogamy.

34:43

There are couples out there who

34:45

regard we only play together as

34:48

another foot, like have threesomes together

34:50

with both of us there, who

34:53

regard that not as non-monogamy at

34:55

all. That's monogamy. We always have

34:57

sex with each other and sometimes

34:59

somebody else together, but we are having sex with

35:01

each other at those times. And

35:04

maybe that's the compromise for you guys

35:06

between monogamy and non-monogamy. You

35:09

say that when your boyfriend of

35:11

three years is on a

35:13

date with another woman by

35:15

himself, you have a

35:17

trauma response. You

35:19

get sick to

35:21

your stomach, you throw up, you feel

35:23

like your world is ending, and then

35:26

you would like to pipe in to say,

35:28

your world didn't end three times, you thought

35:30

your world was ending, didn't end, he came

35:32

back, world didn't end, but somehow that's

35:34

not sinking in. You're

35:37

not confident that if he goes out on a date with somebody

35:39

else that the world won't end and he is going to come

35:41

back to you just like he's come back to you the last

35:43

three times. But you don't say that you

35:45

had that response when you had threesomes with him. You

35:49

apparently enjoyed the threesomes that you

35:51

had with him. And so maybe,

35:54

maybe for the two of you, that's

35:56

the workable compromise for

35:58

now, perhaps forever. I

38:00

fell in love with someone like

38:03

I have never loved someone

38:05

before. Not to

38:07

this extent, this level.

38:10

And he felt the same way towards me. But

38:14

he's married and even though he's unhappy

38:16

in his marriage, for various

38:18

reasons he won't leave it. I

38:20

can't be a mistress. And

38:22

I feel guilty, even the

38:24

thought of wishing to break

38:26

up anyone's marriage. No

38:29

matter how much I want to be with him. So

38:31

I'm dating and there's

38:34

someone that I'm starting

38:36

to have loving feelings for. But I know

38:38

it'll never be like the feelings I had

38:40

for this guy from last year. I

38:42

don't know if I'll ever feel that again. I

38:46

know it was just a short duration

38:48

of half a year that

38:51

this guy and I had an

38:53

emotional and a very brief

38:55

sexual relationship. And I've listed

38:58

for myself all the

39:00

reasons why he would not be the best

39:02

guy for me. But

39:06

still nine months later, I'm

39:08

just not over him. I

39:11

don't want to think this was all

39:13

I get for the great love of my life was just

39:16

a few months. Is

39:18

there a chance of having a love like this again?

39:22

Life is long and messy and

39:24

also life is short. Why

39:27

not be a mistress? I was just

39:29

listening to a podcast about Nell

39:31

Gwyn. Noble Blood, the podcast. Danish

39:34

Wurzges. Wonderful podcast about royal scandals

39:37

and tragedies. Nell Gwyn was

39:39

Charles II's mistress. Now,

39:42

there are a lot of perks to being a

39:44

royal mistress. The children that Nell Gwyn had with

39:46

Charles II were given titles. Her descendants are

39:49

part of the British aristocracy. That's

39:51

obviously not in the offing here because

39:54

this guy, whoever he was, is not the king

39:56

of England. And you're not in your childbearing years.

40:00

but why the fuck not? Why

40:02

the fuck not be a mistress?

40:04

It may not be the

40:06

ideal situation, but it may be

40:08

what's best for you, not

40:10

just because you'll get to be with this guy

40:12

again, but because it might help you get over

40:15

this guy. You

40:17

ended this relationship after a few

40:19

weeks, after a month and a half, I think you said, and

40:22

so you ended it

40:24

when you were still in

40:26

the new relationship energy stage,

40:29

the limerence phase, you were

40:31

still besotted. The relationship was

40:33

new and exciting and

40:36

perfect, and you were falling in love, and

40:38

then you ended it. And who knows if

40:40

you'd stayed with him, if

40:42

you had compromised your values and

40:44

become a royal mistress,

40:47

maybe after three months, a little bit of the

40:49

bloom would have gone off the rose, and you

40:52

might still have loved him, but

40:54

maybe that love would have been complicated by

40:56

getting to know him a little better, and

40:58

then the end of the relationship at the

41:01

end came would be

41:03

less painful, because you wouldn't be looking

41:05

back and remembering the relationship as perfect

41:07

in every possible way, because the entirety

41:10

of the relationship existed only in the

41:12

NRE limerence stage of

41:14

the relationship. So maybe as a

41:17

strategy, having been this guy's mistress

41:19

for just a little bit longer,

41:21

if his reasons for staying in

41:23

his marriage were good

41:25

ones, and there are sometimes good reasons why

41:28

people stay married and

41:30

seek comfort or sexual

41:32

release or emotional connections outside

41:34

the marriage, there are good reasons

41:37

that people might choose

41:39

to stay together, and you didn't share

41:41

any of the reasons that

41:43

he gave, if he gave you any reasons

41:45

for choosing to stay in his marriage that

41:48

doesn't make him particularly happy, but

41:50

if you assessed them and

41:52

came to the conclusion that they

41:54

were pretty good and decent, maybe even

41:56

noble reasons for him to show

41:59

his life. loyalty to his wife by staying

42:01

married to her. We

42:04

can show our loyalty to our spouses with

42:06

things other than our genitals over the long

42:08

course of a multi-decade marriage. Yeah,

42:12

yeah, maybe you could have been as mistress. And

42:14

oh my God, you're in your

42:16

60s. Yeah, you can have more than one

42:19

great love in

42:21

your life. I don't wanna be

42:23

ageist. I am almost in my

42:25

60s myself. I am not throwing

42:27

stones at anybody's glass

42:29

house here, but you're in your 60s. You

42:33

can have more than one great love

42:35

of your life, but the clock

42:37

is ticking. You are

42:40

running out of time. And

42:42

if this was a great

42:45

love potentially in your life, maybe

42:49

it's gonna be a great imperfect love. Maybe it's

42:51

gonna be a great complicated love. Maybe it's gonna

42:53

be a great love that requires concession,

42:56

a compromise, an accommodation,

42:59

a workaround, working around

43:01

your values, working around his

43:03

wife. So be

43:06

still out there. Be still pining for you. My

43:08

advice would be to get back together with

43:11

him. All right,

43:13

time for a little listener feedback. First

43:15

up, some of the comments left on

43:17

last week's show in the very lively

43:19

comment threads at savage.love. Says Apple Scruff,

43:22

Dan, you're a sex expert who is

43:25

in the know about correct anatomical terminology,

43:27

yet you continue to say vagina when

43:30

you should be saying vulva, be

43:32

the change man. Thank you for

43:34

the reminder, Apple Scruff, I will

43:36

try to do better in future.

43:38

Says patient polyamorous, I disagree

43:40

with Dan and Nancy on the orgasm centricity

43:42

of the definitions offered to the caller asking

43:44

about having sex in all the national parks.

43:48

If it feels like sex, it is sex

43:50

has been my definition forever. Sometimes this leads

43:52

to one sex partner having had sex and

43:54

the other not having had sex, but

43:56

such is the price of logical

43:59

consistency. Also, many people struggle with

44:01

orgasms and taking the emphasis off

44:03

the orgasm can lead to more

44:05

pleasurable and just more sex. All

44:07

right, we weren't trying to offend

44:10

or erase people who struggle with

44:12

orgasms when we offered that definition

44:15

of sex. We were just doing our

44:17

bit to help close the orgasm gap.

44:19

The problem for millions of women out

44:21

there with male partners aren't all the

44:23

men placing too much emphasis on their

44:25

orgasms, but all the men out there

44:28

doing the opposite. I

44:31

think everyone should go into sex assuming it's their

44:33

responsibility to get their partner off, but if the

44:35

person you're with tells you that they

44:38

can't always come or don't need to come or

44:40

don't want to come, we shouldn't regard them as

44:42

broken or refuse to believe them when they tell

44:44

us that sex that they're having or they want

44:47

to have is pleasurable for them.

44:50

Zoftig, I really enjoyed the conversation with Liz

44:52

Lenz and have so many thoughts, but

44:54

the one that immediately stood out is

44:57

whether people in happy marriages are actually

44:59

doing a disservice by not talking about

45:01

their happy marriages. I have

45:03

a touch of worst case scenario disorders, Zoftig

45:05

goes on and I feel you, Zoftig, I

45:07

do too, talking about happy marriages can feel

45:10

like jinxing things, but are

45:12

we, says Zoftig, those of us in

45:14

happy marriages, sort of default

45:16

allowing bad behavior to be normalized by

45:19

not talking about our good marriages. Excellent

45:22

question, Zoftig, people who complain about their

45:24

marriages are common, people who brag about

45:26

their marriages are somehow

45:29

sus, perceived as overcompensating, maybe that's

45:31

a script we all need to

45:33

work on flipping. All right,

45:35

for more listener feedback, check out struggle session

45:38

where I respond to listener and reader comments,

45:40

goes up almost every Thursday

45:42

at savage.love and now more

45:44

listener feedback in the form

45:46

of your response calls.