0:00

You're listening to the micro version of the Savage

0:02

Lovecast at savage.love.

0:23

You know those how it started how it's going

0:25

memes, they're usually visual jokes

0:27

like those me reaping me sewing memes

0:30

or those fuck around and find

0:32

out memes. Basically to qualify

0:34

for a how it started or me reaping or fuck

0:36

around meme you gotta pull some shit

0:39

you thought was clever and that you thought you

0:41

would get away with and then get your

0:43

ass handed to you. Before

0:45

social media came along before memes became

0:47

fodder for viral visual jokes we

0:50

used to call this shit getting your comeuppance,

0:52

being hoist by your own petard.

0:55

Well the pro-life movement

0:58

they're reaping it now and they are reaping

1:00

it hard. They fucked

1:02

around, they're finding out.

1:05

We all remember how it started. They fought

1:07

for 50 years to strip women of their

1:09

constitutional right to control their own bodies,

1:12

to make their own decisions about terminating a pregnancy

1:15

and they did it.

1:16

They got Roe v Wade overturned with the Dobbs

1:18

decision a little more than a year ago returning

1:21

the regulation of abortion to the states.

1:24

And how's that going? Well the

1:26

New York Times reported this weekend legal

1:29

abortions most likely increased in the United

1:31

States in the first six months of the year compared

1:33

with 2020. An analysis of new estimates

1:36

shows as states with more permissive

1:38

abortion laws absorbed patients traveling

1:40

from those with bans and access

1:43

to abortion pills via telemedicine continued

1:46

to expand. All right for the record I

1:48

think it's better when people don't need to get abortions because

1:50

they were using contraception or the

1:52

men involved were taking author Gabriel

1:55

Blair's advice to ejaculate responsibly.

1:58

That is the name of her terrific book Ejaculate.

1:59

responsibly, that is her

2:02

message to men. She was a guest on the

2:04

show. Everyone, particularly everyone out there

2:06

with a penis, should read her book.

2:09

So one year after repealing Roe,

2:11

Americans are having more abortions, not

2:14

fewer.

2:15

Why?

2:16

Well, I don't think women and other

2:18

people who need abortions are getting abortions

2:20

out of spite. I don't think that's it at

2:22

all. It's the outrage

2:25

at Roe being overturned that

2:27

resulted in more information being shared

2:29

online and elsewhere that's helping women

2:31

who might not have known how to get abortion medications,

2:34

order their M&Ms online,

2:37

and it's helped more women find the financial

2:39

and logistical assistance that's out there for

2:41

women who need to travel to

2:43

get an abortion out of state if they happen to

2:45

live in a red state where abortion

2:48

has been banned. You may recall

2:50

that after the Dobbs decision leak, the pro-choice

2:53

group put out an ad that really pissed

2:55

off the pro-life crowd. It's

2:58

dark, the middle of the night, a middle-aged

3:00

woman is in a car with her daughter and

3:03

they've just been pulled over. License

3:06

please. Where

3:08

you headed? We

3:10

were just out for a drive. Headed

3:13

to the border? Oh no, no. We were just

3:15

going up to the... Hey there.

3:18

What's your name?

3:21

Grace. Are

3:26

you pregnant, Grace? I'm

3:30

out of the vehicle. She does not

3:32

have to. Yeah, we're hanging on the wheel. Please, Grace, you're out

3:34

of the vehicle. One wheel.

3:42

Pro-life groups objected. They

3:44

were not proposing travel

3:46

restrictions. They weren't going to send cops out

3:49

to pull women over and arrest them

3:51

if they were taking their daughters across state

3:53

lines to get abortions. That was beer

3:56

mongering, plain and simple, demagoguery.

4:00

never gonna do such

4:02

a thing. Well guess what pro-life groups

4:04

are proposing and in some

4:07

counties in Texas have already

4:09

enacted laws

4:12

regulating travel. Travel restrictions,

4:14

laws criminalizing women

4:17

who take their daughters or friends or co-workers

4:19

across state lines to get an abortion.

4:22

As the Washington Post reported in a piece headlined

4:24

highways are the next anti-abortion

4:27

targets. Quote, more than a

4:29

year after Roe v. Wade was overturned many conservatives

4:32

have grown frustrated by the number of people

4:34

able to circumvent anti-abortion

4:36

laws. That frustration is driving

4:39

a new strategy in heavily conservative

4:41

cities and counties across Texas. That

4:43

strategy passed laws in anti-abortion

4:46

cities and counties and eventually in anti-abortion

4:48

states that make it illegal to transport

4:51

anyone to get an abortion

4:53

on public roads. I'm going to read

4:55

a little bit more from the Washington Post because this is just

4:58

so chilling.

5:00

Anti-abortion advocates behind the measure

5:02

are targeting regions along interstates and

5:04

in areas with airports with the

5:06

goal of blocking off the main arteries

5:09

out of Texas and keeping pregnant

5:11

women hemmed within the confines

5:14

of their anti-abortion state.

5:17

So here we are a

5:19

year after pro-lifers got what they wanted,

5:22

Roe overturned and the abortion

5:24

rate went up and now they're doing

5:26

what they swore they weren't planning to do

5:28

and would never do and insisted was a lie.

5:31

Make traveling to get an abortion

5:33

a crime. Dobbs

5:36

is a huge loss for women's rights but

5:39

pro- lifers they've been losing

5:42

ever since at the ballot box

5:44

not just with the abortion rate in blue

5:46

states and red. NBC News

5:48

has a headline abortion rights have won in every

5:51

election since Roe v. Wade was

5:53

overturned. Vermont and California

5:56

blue states you would expect abortion to win

5:58

at the ballot box in Vermont and California. California,

6:01

but abortion rights have also triumphed

6:03

at the ballot box in red states

6:05

in Kansas and Montana and Ohio

6:08

and Kentucky and in the purple state Michigan

6:11

The pro lifers keep getting their asses

6:13

handed to them. And yes, I

6:16

am calling them pro lifers now I've been using

6:18

the term pro life throughout this intro intentionally

6:22

because Republicans want their

6:24

side and our side to stop using

6:27

the term pro life Because

6:29

it's not polling. Well, it

6:31

is an anchor around their necks as

6:33

they head into 2024 Ben

6:36

Dreyfus makes a great point. I was

6:38

always entertaining sometimes alarmingly entertaining

6:41

sub stack calm down Ben

6:43

calm Allowed segment of

6:45

the left has spent years insisting that referring

6:47

to pro lifers as pro life was something only

6:50

gullible dumbasses Did who had been tricked

6:52

by the messaging masters at the GOP? The

6:55

theory is that people are so stupid

6:57

that they would see the word pro life and

6:59

read it the way an alien would read it And think

7:01

pro equals support and life. I like

7:03

life pro life good This

7:05

is the dumbest thing in the whole wide world people in America

7:08

know what the term pro life

7:11

means indeed they do pro

7:13

lifers have been showing us who they are for decades,

7:15

but a lot of people weren't paying attention and For

7:19

a lot of people abortion wasn't a deciding

7:21

issue when they went to vote But

7:23

people are paying attention now and abortion

7:26

is a deciding issue for more voters

7:28

today than it was a year ago We

7:32

can expect their efforts the

7:34

efforts of toxic pro lifers

7:36

their efforts to stop women from getting abortions To

7:39

grow more extreme like laws criminalizing

7:42

interstate travel while female and they

7:44

can expect us to show up on election

7:46

day in 2024 and hand them their asses

7:49

again Alright

7:53

Portland Victoria Oakland Minneapolis

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you are up next the hump film

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the Hump Film Festival. All right, coming up

8:19

on today's show, tons of your cues, lots

8:21

of my A's, and on the magnum, Savage's

8:24

love cast, culture and lifestyle

8:26

reporter, Darshita Goyal, joins me to

8:28

discuss her recent piece on Mashable about

8:31

the deeply satisfying, but possibly problematic,

8:34

and hugely popular Facebook

8:36

pages, Are We Dating the

8:38

Same Guy? All that coming up on

8:40

today's show.

8:41

I have a new

8:44

friends with benefits relationship. Neither

8:46

of us can host

8:49

the relationship at our place because

8:51

I'm married and I'm monogamous, and

8:53

he has a lot of roommates. So we just

8:56

started seeing each other. We hooked up a couple times

8:58

in the afternoon at my place.

9:01

It's literally been less than a week,

9:03

but we made plans and booked

9:05

an Airbnb so we could spend the

9:07

night together because it's been really

9:10

hot and going really great.

9:12

Today,

9:14

a couple hours after hooking up, I

9:16

got a text from him that he's rushing

9:19

out of town to be with his mom who just had

9:21

a stroke.

9:22

And he was like, I'm really sorry,

9:25

tell me what I owe you for the Airbnb. I'm

9:27

gonna be gone this weekend. So I, of course,

9:29

said, don't worry about it. I think I can

9:31

probably cancel it. I'm so sorry,

9:34

I'm shocked for you, thinking of you and your family,

9:36

whatever. Take care of yourself kind

9:38

of thing. Do I need to

9:40

do

9:42

anything else? In a few

9:44

days or a week or something, if I haven't heard

9:46

from him, should I follow

9:50

up? I don't wanna sound like I'm following up like,

9:52

hey, are we gonna fuck again? When he's

9:55

busy dealing with something,

9:56

it's weird because I don't know him super well,

9:59

but. It was like very intense

10:01

there for a minute. I don't want to come

10:03

off like I'm following up in some like emotionally

10:06

too close way that isn't really

10:08

the vibe. I also don't

10:11

want to seem completely disconnected and

10:13

dispassionate. I mean, I did send

10:15

a compassionate response

10:17

today.

10:18

Should I just stack off and let him make the

10:20

next move? And then if he

10:22

doesn't

10:23

text me again in like a week, does that mean

10:26

that I did something to give him the ick? This is all

10:28

some weird lie.

10:30

Friends

10:30

with benefits should be friends. Sometimes

10:33

people who are in FWB

10:36

arrangements forget that that

10:39

F stands for friend.

10:42

And friends are there for each other. Friends

10:44

care about each other. The FWB

10:47

label when slapped on a relationship.

10:51

And this is a nascent, a beginning, an early,

10:53

a new relationship. It doesn't

10:55

absolve the people in it of

10:58

any responsibility of

11:00

care and projecting concern

11:03

when your FWB is facing

11:05

a life crisis.

11:07

You've done that. He let you know his

11:10

mother had a medical emergency. He had to leave town

11:12

suddenly. He apologized. You sent

11:14

him a note saying, oh, I'm so sorry.

11:17

There's anything I can do. Thinking

11:19

of you. Please take care of your mother. Don't worry

11:21

about the cost. I'll eat it or take

11:23

care of it or get it canceled. You

11:25

sent the text message that you needed to

11:27

send, that you should have sent, as a friend.

11:31

But what you need to recognize is that you're a new

11:33

friend. You need to bear that in mind.

11:36

He hopefully has family who

11:39

are there for him right now, close friends,

11:41

people who are his true

11:44

intimates. You're not

11:46

a close friend yet. That

11:50

early slapping of an FWB label

11:52

on your relationship, that was aspirational.

11:55

If you've just met and you've just begun to fuck

11:58

and it's clearly going to be an FWB, arrangement,

12:02

calling it that. So soon out

12:04

of the gate, that tells him what

12:06

you're open for, hoping

12:09

for, and that's him telling you what he's open

12:11

for and hoping for. You were

12:13

talking about a place you wanted your

12:15

relationship to go, a way

12:18

in which you hoped this relationship would grow.

12:21

And what you need to recognize right now is

12:23

you haven't known him long enough or been fucking

12:25

him long enough or been his FWB long enough

12:28

to have arrived at that stage where you

12:30

are a close friend

12:33

with benefits and an intimate.

12:36

So

12:37

the text message you said for now,

12:39

considering where your relationship is now, is

12:42

enough. Give him some time, give

12:44

him some space, he has enough on his hands, you

12:46

don't wanna make him feel like he needs to manage your

12:48

feelings and expectations and be thinking

12:51

of you at this moment. So just hang the fuck back,

12:53

give it a week. After a week, send

12:56

him a message that says, I'm thinking of you and

12:58

your mom, that's it. That's all you have to

13:00

say, thinking of you and your mom.

13:03

And when he gets back to town, I'm sure

13:06

he'll follow up with you unless

13:09

this was all, like you said, a weird

13:11

lie. I don't think this is the kind of lie someone

13:13

would pull out of their ass to get out of a weekend

13:16

away with a brand new FWB. My

13:18

mom had a stroke, that would be a weird

13:22

big ass lie

13:23

that

13:24

if it turned out it was a lie, that would mean

13:27

he's not someone that you wanted in

13:29

your bed, in your house in the middle of

13:31

the day or to spend any time

13:33

with in an Airbnb. But

13:36

I don't think it was a lie. I also don't think

13:38

you're his friend quite yet.

13:42

Hey Dan, I'm a tech savvy at risk youth.

13:45

In a new thing, it's fantastic,

13:48

but we're both givers.

13:51

And that seems

13:52

to be canceling each other

13:54

out or rather canceling me out

13:57

because I'm not

13:58

used to... I

14:01

think we're both a little bit too

14:03

similar in

14:05

the bedroom and I don't really know how to voice

14:07

that I need a little more

14:09

edge. I don't know how else to say

14:12

that, but yeah, too much. We're

14:15

both kind of the same and that's

14:18

working out really well, but I kind

14:20

of see a little bit of a problem down

14:22

the road on that.

14:23

Anyways, what would you suggest

14:27

for someone who needs

14:29

a little more edge from

14:32

their new partner?

14:34

There's

14:34

a study that came out, must have

14:36

been 20 years ago and I would

14:39

look it up for you right now, but right now I'm recording

14:41

my podcast and I can't be expected to record and

14:43

research at the same time, but it is out there. It

14:45

found something that at the time

14:48

seemed a little counterintuitive. It found that

14:51

selfish people were generally

14:54

better lovers, that

14:57

something that people wanted from a lover

14:59

was this sense of them taking

15:02

their pleasure from you,

15:04

them taking their pleasure on you, them taking

15:06

from you, not just giving, not

15:09

just being solicitous, although that is wonderful,

15:11

but not just being solicitous of you

15:13

and your pleasure, not just censoring

15:16

your pleasure and asking how they may be of

15:18

service, but also wanting

15:20

from you, taking

15:23

from you, using you as an instrument

15:26

of their own pleasure. So

15:30

it's good to be in bed with

15:32

someone who's not exclusively

15:34

a giver, but also a taker.

15:38

I don't think anybody who

15:40

authored that study was endorsing 100% selfish

15:42

all the time, thinking

15:45

of only their own needs during sex,

15:47

kinds of lovers. We've all

15:49

been with people like that. They're terrible lovers,

15:52

but someone who has more than one

15:54

gear, somebody who can shift into

15:57

drive and also shift into reverse

15:59

and break. when necessary. And so

16:02

what you and your current lover are sort

16:04

of facing right now is

16:07

this realization that maybe all

16:09

the people you've been with in the past were more taker than

16:11

giver and you were both givers and

16:13

a lot of your identity as erotic

16:15

people, sexual people, as

16:18

lovers was wrapped up in meeting

16:20

a taker's needs, being taken

16:23

by somebody, giving them that. And

16:25

what you've got to understand the kind of flip

16:29

you've got to make in your head is that taking

16:32

can also be a kind of giving. That

16:34

taking your pleasure, centering your own

16:36

pleasure in a consensual way with somebody who

16:38

wants your pleasure to be centered, who's interested

16:41

in meeting your needs, being selfish

16:44

now and then is also in a double

16:48

reverse back flip photo negative

16:50

kind of way how

16:53

you can give. If you can hold

16:56

those two contradictory thoughts in your heads

16:58

at the same time while you're fucking each other and

17:01

there's some give and take and flow

17:03

between who's giving and who's taking but also recognizing

17:06

that at those moments that you're taking you're

17:08

also, so long as the pleasure

17:10

you're taking on and with your partner are pleasures

17:12

that they enjoy, things that they want to do with

17:15

you and for you, you are giving

17:17

to them at the same time. If

17:19

you can hold those two seemingly contradictory

17:22

thoughts in your head at the same time you might

17:24

be able to make this work. Addressing

17:28

one other thing you brought up

17:30

was how do you get your lover to have more edge? It

17:32

would be helpful if you could articulate what exactly

17:35

that means and you don't articulate that

17:37

to me and your question I'm wondering

17:39

if you're not able also to articulate

17:43

that to your lover. Just asking

17:45

someone I need you to feel edge but what is that

17:48

what does that mean? What does edgy mean

17:50

for you? You need them to be more dominant, you

17:52

need them to be more controlling, you want to be held down,

17:55

you need to feel that they

17:57

are sometimes overwhelmed by their design.

18:00

and lust for you and have to take you right there in

18:03

the car, in the kitchen, in your bathroom

18:06

at a friend's house during a party. What does that mean? You

18:08

can't be vague. You can't just say to

18:11

someone, I need you to be edgier

18:13

and then expect them to guess.

18:16

And when you put someone in a position where they feel like they

18:18

have to guess what it is that you want, you

18:22

are setting yourself up for a potentially

18:24

traumatizing experience and them up for a

18:26

potentially traumatizing experience because

18:29

they're highly likely to guess

18:31

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thank me later. Hi, Dan.

20:12

I wonder if you could weigh in

20:14

on a phenomenon that I have

20:17

been experiencing.

20:19

I've been jacking off since I was about 15. When

20:23

I first started doing it, I had not yet

20:25

begun producing sperm. I found

20:28

that my orgasms during those times

20:30

sent tingles throughout

20:32

my whole body. Once

20:35

I started ejaculating sperm, the

20:37

feelings were still good, of course, but not

20:40

the same intensity as

20:43

the pre-ejaculate orgasms.

20:46

I'm now 76 years old,

20:49

and my sperm factory

20:51

has gone out of business.

20:54

Barely a drop, if

20:56

that. I'm noticing

20:58

now that the sensation that I have

21:01

during orgasm harkened

21:03

back to the early

21:05

days before I had

21:07

sperm. Not quite as intense as

21:09

those teenage days, but similar.

21:13

I'm just wondering, are you familiar

21:15

with any language or medical description

21:17

for the sensations in

21:20

an orgasm that produces no

21:22

ejaculate?

21:24

Men as they age, and you

21:26

are age 70, tend to produce less

21:29

semen, less mobile sperm cells,

21:32

and less ejaculate over time. It's as

21:34

if the little glands and pumps

21:36

and jizz factory down

21:39

there in our junk and our crotches, that

21:41

shuts down. But the pump system

21:44

still works. That's why you're still able to get aroused.

21:46

That's why you're still able to experience the pleasures

21:49

of orgasm, even if when

21:52

you go into orgasmic contractions, there's

21:54

nothing for those contractions to send flying

21:57

out the head of your dick anymore,

21:59

except that. small drop.

22:02

I haven't heard of people, of men

22:04

people, having

22:07

orgasms that were more all-body and intense

22:09

after their semen

22:12

sperm ejaculate factories

22:14

shut down but they were still capable of climaxing.

22:18

Doesn't mean it's not a thing but I don't think it's

22:20

a common enough thing that anyone out there would have studied

22:23

it if I am wrong and someone out

22:25

there listening has studied it or knows

22:27

of studies about this phenomena please

22:31

send it our way let us know.

22:33

I would encourage you caller while

22:35

we wait for the studies that probably aren't going to come

22:37

in because again I really don't think this has been

22:39

studied rather than to regard this

22:41

as a mystery or a problem to regard

22:44

it as a blessing some compensation

22:47

from the universe for you as

22:50

your orgasms changed maybe because

22:52

you are less focused on the

22:54

ejaculatory moment so many men

22:57

our dicks almost train us we get into

22:59

this feedback loop with our dicks where it is

23:01

about that moment of ejaculation and

23:03

maybe now that you're not pushing toward that moment

23:06

of ejaculation and that sort of visual

23:09

affirmation that ejaculation

23:11

provides us maybe you're taking longer

23:14

maybe you're engaged in a kind

23:16

of deeper exploration of self pleasure

23:19

now in the same way that you were more

23:21

deeply self pleasuring yourself before

23:24

you were capable of ejaculating when you were a teenager

23:28

and you're just activating more nerve

23:31

endings you're sending more signals up

23:33

to different parts of your brain that

23:35

hadn't been activated for the last 50

23:39

60 years and the orgasms

23:41

are better and more intense

23:44

that's my theory I just pulled that out of my ass I think

23:46

it's a pretty good one and until we hear from

23:48

somebody who's actually done the studies who may know

23:50

that's the best you're gonna get

23:52

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Go now. With Helix, better

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sleep starts now. Hey,

25:14

Dan, long-time listener. Thanks for the

25:16

many years of great advice. I'm

25:19

in an online in-bedroom only

25:21

dom-sub relationship. I'm a

25:23

masochist

25:23

sub. He's a sadist

25:26

master. The sex is

25:28

hell dynamic, and most of our play revolves

25:30

around consensual non-consent,

25:32

pain, and humiliation, kinks

25:35

that are very close to my heart. Being that

25:37

our relationship is solely online,

25:39

we're both also really interested in

25:41

the psychology of submission, how

25:43

to get there, ways to get there. I

25:45

wanted to explore mind fuck and its destabilizing

25:48

effect during play. We spend

25:50

a lot of time discussing, setting, and exploring

25:52

limits. I knew there would be violent

25:55

storytelling

25:55

involved. We started play,

25:58

and he went on a mind fuck tangent.

25:59

However, it was so violent,

26:02

so extreme, I called time,

26:04

and he stopped immediately. Went

26:06

straight into a long session of aftercare,

26:09

he's been checking on me regularly, doing all the

26:11

right things. In discussions

26:13

afterward, I asked if he actually

26:15

got off on that level of violence, and

26:17

apparently he does. So, with

26:20

Mein Fag literally accomplished, my

26:22

question is, is violent

26:24

and I mean snuff-style violence

26:26

fantasy a common thing, or

26:29

am I actually hanging out with a bad person?

26:32

Is snuff-style violence?

26:35

Snuff, of course, is a...

26:37

usually that word is used in reference to a

26:40

genre of extremely violent

26:43

pornography that looms

26:45

large in the cultural imagination.

26:47

I don't think there's much actual snuff porn out

26:49

there, but snuff porn is pornography

26:52

where someone is

26:54

murdered.

26:55

Now when you think about it, a lot of our

26:57

mass entertainment involves

27:00

violence, murder, mayhem,

27:03

Dexter, Jeffrey Dahmer

27:06

documentaries, dumb superhero movies

27:08

where half of humanity is wiped

27:10

off the face of the earth one day.

27:13

So much of our fear

27:16

of violence gets processed through cultural entertainments

27:19

that represent it, that

27:21

show us our fears so that we through the process

27:23

of catharsis can purge our

27:26

fears, and everyone's fine with

27:28

that. Okay, so another

27:30

way that we process our fears,

27:32

our cultural traumas, is through our erotic imagination.

27:35

There are some people out there who are

27:37

turned on by the idea of

27:41

being murdered. As with

27:43

all kinks, there are more subs than dons.

27:46

There are more people out there who

27:48

fantasize about someone

27:50

in the moment having the power of life and death over

27:52

them. Most people who fantasize

27:55

about that moment aren't fantasizing about dying,

27:58

they just want the person to be murdered. who

28:00

has power over them at that moment to

28:02

have that power

28:05

so they can sit with in

28:07

that eroticized context that fear

28:09

and through the process of catharsis

28:12

purge it there are some people

28:14

who fantasize about and are turned on by the thought of

28:17

murdering people this

28:20

guy seems to be one

28:22

of those guys not everyone

28:25

who has violent

28:28

homicidal sexual fantasies

28:30

acts on them

28:32

people can have whatever fantasies

28:34

I want to say they choose to have

28:36

because a lot of people sexual interests where

28:39

their erotic imaginations go not a fully conscious

28:41

process not something we choose

28:43

a lot of people who have these

28:45

kinds of fantasies are

28:48

still moral actors and can distinguish

28:50

between what arouses them

28:52

to contemplate or to think about and what

28:54

is ethically and morally

28:57

impossible not something they would ever do in reality

29:00

the way this person treats

29:02

you the aftercare the consideration

29:05

that he demonstrated also his honesty

29:08

when you put the question to him I think

29:11

that all argues against he's looking for

29:13

someone to murder or he has

29:15

murdered someone but there

29:17

are definitely people out there in the papers every

29:19

day Netflix

29:22

murder documentaries clogging up

29:24

my feed who have acted on these desires

29:28

and impulses is he

29:30

one of those people who might who would

29:32

I couldn't tell you for

29:35

sure that he's not you're

29:38

safe this is a purely online relationship

29:41

these are text exchanges you're

29:43

just cranking each other up

29:45

and going to a very dark

29:47

place a lot

29:49

of people would regard consensual non consent

29:52

rape or ravishments play pain

29:55

humiliation masochist

29:57

and sadist playing is already being in

29:59

a dark

29:59

plays.

30:01

Now it's fine for you to have dark sexual fantasies

30:03

and say to somebody there are other sexual

30:06

fantasies that for me are too extreme.

30:09

If it's not enough for you for him just to

30:11

not go there anymore, if you don't feel comfortable

30:14

playing with him online,

30:16

interacting with him because that is a place

30:18

he would also with the right partner

30:20

through fantasy play

30:23

enjoy going well then you don't have to play with him anymore. You're

30:25

not in any immediate or imminent

30:27

danger. He's a person on

30:29

your computer. Not

30:31

everybody in the edge play mind fuck

30:34

wants to go to this kind of

30:36

level of violence or fantasies

30:39

about violence but

30:41

it opens the door to these kinds

30:44

of fantasies

30:47

being

30:48

shared being discussed which

30:50

is different than them being

30:52

acted on. So

30:55

what do you do? Well you

30:57

don't play with this guy anymore if you're uncomfortable playing with

30:59

him now knowing what you know.

31:01

If you want to keep playing with this guy but want to feel comfortable

31:03

playing with this guy it might help if you had a

31:06

conversation about these interests

31:09

of his and the extent of them and

31:12

during those conversations you'll be able to get a sense

31:14

of his moral

31:17

core.

31:19

A lot of people have really fucked up fantasies

31:22

that they know are not things

31:24

that they could do but additionally

31:27

know that

31:29

they aren't things they would ever

31:32

do but to think about them to

31:34

turn them over in their heads, fantasize,

31:37

anything is

31:39

permissible in fantasy

31:42

and a lot of murder and mayhem is

31:45

obviously permissible to us as

31:47

entertainment and what is BDSM

31:51

this kind of kinky dirty talk but

31:53

two people creating a play in a drama

31:56

with and for each other. It's theater for

31:59

two. It's an entertainment

32:01

you're creating for each other with each other

32:04

to arouse each other can

32:06

that? entertainment ever involve

32:09

a fantasy about

32:11

death

32:12

Obviously it can if both people

32:15

are comfortable fantasizing about that and

32:17

it obviously can if it's an entertainment being created

32:19

for millions of people to

32:22

turn out at the theater to enjoy Seems

32:25

to me that a fantasy that

32:27

goes to a place an entertainment that goes

32:29

to a place as dark as murder and mayhem if

32:32

that's alright for mass entertainment

32:34

if I can fire up my streamers

32:37

and watch that kind of content 24

32:40

hours a day seven days a week 365 days a year Then

32:44

it has to be okay for two people to create that

32:46

entertainment that fantasy

32:48

that story

32:50

for each other Hey,

32:52

Dan. I have a question about ASMR

32:55

Which came to mind again after that guy with

32:58

the sexy boys came on a couple

33:00

episodes ago I first

33:02

heard of that. I think

33:05

right before COVID on your show and

33:08

to me it was really related to a fetish

33:11

and sex and sexuality

33:13

and Ventuousness and

33:16

then I heard my kids friends

33:18

and my kids talking about it, and I was

33:20

like whoa whoa no don't say

33:22

that and now it's

33:24

just more popular and Now

33:27

the kids you know 11

33:30

12 years old are going oh When

33:35

there's some Sound

33:38

phrase feeling or something

33:40

and I just get weirded out because

33:42

I think it's an adult

33:45

thing

33:46

Am I looking at this long? Is this sort

33:48

of always been or morphed into just?

33:52

everyday things for everybody

33:54

that I Just me

33:56

out because you can't do like oh,

33:59

that's pretty beyond

33:59

like I just saying, that is fine.

34:02

I just told my kids I don't want to hear you say

34:04

that is fine. Checking in on the

34:06

old Wiki ASMR,

34:09

Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response,

34:12

a tingling sensation that usually begins

34:14

on the scalp and moves down the

34:16

back of the neck and the upper spine, a pleasant

34:19

form of paresthesia.

34:21

It has been compared with auditory

34:24

tactile synesthesia. Not

34:27

necessarily kinky, not necessarily

34:29

sexual. Some people

34:31

are turned on by ASMR

34:34

videos. There's something about the way

34:36

that sounds, those sensations, those

34:38

tingles that are sexually

34:41

arousing for them. ASMR videos,

34:43

though, aren't just for and aren't just created

34:46

by people who have that particular

34:48

kink. I think that your

34:51

kids are basically enjoying

34:54

ASMR for the

34:56

weird tickly feeling. And

34:59

you need to stop bringing

35:01

to it your knowledge of

35:04

this minority of people who

35:06

enjoy ASMR videos

35:09

or sound files, creating them or listening to

35:11

them or both, that minority

35:13

for whom it is a kink and for

35:15

whom it is sexual. And just let your kids

35:18

enjoy the Autonomous

35:20

Sensory Meridian Response, which is all

35:22

they're getting out of it. When

35:24

I was a kid, we used to do this thing where you would,

35:27

as lightly as possible, try to run

35:29

your fingers down the back of somebody's head and

35:31

neck and top of their spine to induce

35:34

all body shiver. It

35:37

wasn't kinky. It wasn't sexual. It

35:39

was just kids being kids and kids being weirdos

35:42

and kids exploring what

35:44

their nerve endings could do for them

35:47

and what you could do with other people's nerve endings.

35:49

And it wasn't necessarily sexual.

35:52

It was just human

35:54

animal. That's all your kids are doing. So

35:57

calm the fuck down, dad. ASMR,

35:59

yes. Some people are pervy for it. Most

36:02

people are just in it for

36:05

the tingle. Your kids are in it

36:07

for the tingle. Maybe one of your kids will grow up to be an ASMR

36:10

perv. Can't be ruled out. If

36:12

you'd like that to be less likely,

36:16

if you'd rather that not happen, you

36:18

freaking out at your kids about how dirty this ASMR

36:21

shit is, and acting

36:23

weird about it when they talk about

36:25

enjoying it, that ups the odds

36:27

that your kids are gonna realize

36:30

it's naughty and shameful. And there's nothing

36:32

like realizing something is naughty

36:34

and shameful and not quite understanding why

36:37

for turning something random

36:40

and pleasurable and non-sexual into

36:42

a lifelong kink.

36:44

Hi, Dan, Nancy, and the tech savvy

36:46

at Twist Cute. I'm a cis bi

36:48

woman in my late 20s calling from a German city

36:50

that you know and love. I've been in a relationship

36:53

with a man for two years now, and

36:55

it has been open for the most part of it, but

36:57

it is the first open relationship

36:59

for both of us. So recently you've had a bit of

37:02

a dry spell, which is our first one, and

37:04

also he has been living with me for a few months

37:06

while looking for an apartment, and this caused

37:08

a bit of strain in our relationship because my apartment

37:10

is really, really tiny. We also haven't been

37:13

seeing other people a lot, but recently

37:15

he met this woman who is

37:18

cool, good looking, they have similar interests,

37:20

which I'm happy about, but she does make me feel

37:22

a bit insecure. So they went on a date last

37:25

night. They had met a couple times before,

37:28

but they hadn't had sex yet. Because I am feeling a bit

37:30

insecure, I communicated this

37:32

and I asked them to

37:35

be attentive of this. And he knows that

37:37

when I am feeling more insecure, that I prefer that he

37:39

has shorter dates so that he doesn't

37:41

have dates that I go for like five or six

37:43

hours, right? And that they

37:45

don't drag until very late in the night so

37:48

that they don't end at three or four

37:50

in the morning. Also one boundary that we do

37:53

have is that we don't do sleepovers. I

37:55

mean, I don't care about sex part, like it's fine if they

37:57

have sex, but I do care about this stuff.

38:00

So they had a date last night and they met at 6pm.

38:02

I went to sleep in the meantime

38:05

and then I woke up at 3 and I found it

38:07

weird that he hadn't said anything yet so I texted

38:09

him and he said, hey, everything

38:11

went fine, like we had dinner, had sex

38:14

and now she fell asleep in

38:16

my bed. And I said, well, this

38:19

makes me really uncomfortable. Can you do anything

38:21

about it? It's like, well, I

38:24

don't want to be an asshole. But I

38:26

mean, but you don't have to. This is a boundary that

38:28

you've said before, like you said that this is not okay.

38:31

So, you know, give her a few minutes. If

38:33

she doesn't wake up, maybe you could wake her up

38:36

and say, hey, I'm going to call you an Uber or I'm going to

38:38

walk you home. Don't have to be an asshole about it. But

38:40

he said, yeah, sure. I'll see what I can do. But then

38:43

time kept going and he didn't

38:45

do anything. He said he just didn't have the courage

38:48

to wake her up, that he was going to make her feel bad.

38:50

He was going to make her feel used. Yeah.

38:52

And I communicated that I really didn't like this.

38:54

And I really didn't like this on top of the fact that

38:57

the date was super long, that it

38:59

was super late at night. And

39:01

I'm really uncomfortable by this.

39:04

And I feel like he prioritized this

39:07

girl's need for a few more

39:09

hours of sleep instead of my need for

39:11

safety in our relationship. Am

39:14

I being too much then? Or

39:16

is my partner not meeting my needs?

39:19

Yes, your boyfriend violated

39:22

the rules and conditions of your

39:24

open relationship, your boundaries,

39:27

things you told him that he needed to do so

39:29

that you felt comfortable being in an open relationship

39:31

with him or things he needed to not do. No long

39:33

dates, no sleepovers. He

39:36

violated your boundaries.

39:38

He broke those rules. Now,

39:41

what? Well,

39:42

sometimes

39:44

boundaries are great. Sometimes boundaries are awesome.

39:46

There's no relationship without rules and boundaries,

39:48

open relationships, live or die

39:51

by the rules and boundaries. But sometimes, you

39:54

know, it's not okay. So I'm going to say he violated a

39:56

boundary, broke a rule. So off of this head,

39:58

the relationship's over. Sure,

40:00

you could say that though in reality

40:03

often sometimes occasionally

40:06

when a rule is broken

40:09

That can be a sign that maybe the rule is

40:11

unreasonable or arbitrary and needs

40:13

to be Rethought or

40:15

renegotiated it is better.

40:17

It is ideal for

40:20

rules that need to be rethought or renegotiated

40:22

to be renegotiated in advance of

40:24

the breaking of the rule that the

40:27

breakage of the rule is anticipated

40:29

and that Anticipation motivates

40:31

the conversation about renegotiating

40:33

that particular rule in reality

40:37

sometimes rules are renegotiated in the wake

40:39

of breakage

40:42

You want to keep seeing this guy? Do you want to keep fucking

40:44

this guy? Do you want to be in a relationship with this guy? Well,

40:47

then you're gonna have to revisit perhaps renegotiate

40:49

these rules in the wake of this breakage

40:53

And I gotta say I'm on team Let

40:56

her sleep over I'm on team

40:59

turning a woman out onto the streets of Berlin or

41:01

wherever whatever major European capital We're talking

41:03

about here at three or four o'clock

41:06

in the morning Grogi,

41:08

maybe a little still drunk having just been

41:10

fucked is Insensitive

41:13

is inconsiderate is needlessly

41:17

Performatively devoted to rules that

41:19

in practice may not allow

41:21

for the full humanity of the other

41:24

person who also matters Doesn't

41:27

mean your boyfriend didn't break the rules violate your

41:29

boundaries. He did but in the moment

41:32

He realized that that rule that boundary was

41:35

hard to honor without Wronging

41:38

this other person that

41:40

he just shared this experience with

41:43

What do you do?

41:44

Well, I think you need to renegotiate the rules

41:46

I think you need to rethink the rules

41:49

in light of the difficulty of

41:51

honoring them in the moment

41:54

the difficulty that he experienced honoring

41:57

that rule obeying that rule in the moment

41:59

because Because it meant waking

42:02

somebody up out of a deep sleep

42:04

post-fuck and showing

42:07

them the door.

42:09

How would you feel

42:10

if you were on the receiving end of that from some

42:12

dude that you just had sex with? Probably

42:15

not great,

42:16

right?

42:17

Speaks well of him that

42:20

he didn't want to make the

42:22

person he just had sex with feel not great

42:24

in that not great way. But then he

42:26

broke the rules, prioritizes strangers

42:29

feelings over your feelings, yeah that's not okay.

42:32

He should apologize for that and you guys should rethink

42:34

this rule. Because in practice I don't

42:36

think it's workable. Also the short

42:38

date rule, in

42:40

reality women who

42:43

are sleeping with men, particularly

42:45

women who may be thinking about sleeping with a man who

42:47

has another partner, women

42:50

take a little bit more time understandably

42:52

to vet a male partner because

42:56

of violence, sexual

42:58

violence intimate partner violence.

43:01

It is riskier for a woman to go home with

43:03

a man than a man to go home with a woman

43:05

or a man to go home with a man.

43:09

And so that it took

43:11

four or five hours for her to feel comfortable

43:15

going home with your boyfriend for sex

43:17

that's understandable. I think that's another

43:19

rule you may have to rethink. This

43:21

arbitrary limitation of the amount of time he's

43:23

allowed to spend with a woman before hooking up with

43:26

her. How long a date can go

43:28

on because a date if

43:30

he's going to actually have sex with other woman might need to go

43:32

on a little bit longer so that she

43:34

feels comfortable having sex with him going home with

43:37

him. There isn't a grinder out there full

43:40

of straight women who are up for jumping

43:42

on random dicks right fucking now. Women

43:45

don't roll that way. And

43:48

your rules for him about the other women

43:51

he sleeps with need to work

43:54

with those women who they

43:57

are, what their needs are around comfort and

43:59

safety. When you're in a couple

44:01

a couple of sex with other people the

44:03

other people you're having sex with our people too you

44:06

have needs and feelings and wants

44:09

that have to be taken into consideration and No

44:13

one wants to be woken up

44:15

at three or four o'clock in the morning and turned

44:18

out onto the street Well,

44:20

probably too far to say no one wants that probably

44:22

some people want that There is many people out

44:24

there who do not want to wake up in some stranger's

44:27

bed On Sunday morning

44:29

as there are people who do not want strangers waking

44:31

up in their beds on Sunday morning He

44:34

didn't want to wake this woman up to find

44:36

out that she wasn't one of those women who didn't want to

44:38

wake up in a stranger's bed the next morning and Was

44:41

instead one of those women who would feel

44:44

as many women and men would feel hurt

44:48

used discarded Being

44:51

chucked out of the apartment of somebody they

44:53

had a great night with As

44:56

soon as they were done fucking them All

44:58

right before we get to this week's response calls I

45:01

want to share a couple of comments left and last week's show

45:03

at savage dot love Says

45:05

Sarah couldn't disagree more with Dan

45:08

regarding naked weirdo at the book party I've

45:10

ever caller wants to create a trans inclusive

45:12

space for women or she wants to center her

45:15

male friends boner I would

45:17

also want to say and who I participated in a sexual

45:19

situation with and it wouldn't be with a guy

45:21

who saw trans women As inherently scarier

45:24

than cis women says Steve

45:27

your advice Dan to the woman wanting the naked

45:29

male server Missed a couple of things you

45:32

suggest that since the caller currently has no

45:34

trans women who've signed up for her book club The

45:36

problem is hypothetical Dating

45:39

someone who is uncomfortable around gay people

45:41

is purely hypothetical Dan if you have

45:43

no gay friends But is that the energy

45:46

you want says John? Is

45:48

this a book club or a sex party

45:50

pretending to be a book club pick

45:53

one? If it's a sex party built

45:55

around this guy's specific kink let

45:57

him that guests if it's a book

45:59

club Don't have a naked pervert

46:02

serving drinks. This would not fly

46:04

for a second in my radical queer sex

46:06

positive social group Because it sounds

46:09

just so incredibly fucking creepy

46:11

and predatory. Oh my god, where

46:14

to begin? There's being comfortable

46:16

around gay people That is one thing and then

46:18

there's being comfortable having a gay person in

46:20

the room with you while you are having a sexual

46:22

experience That's

46:24

a very different thing If a straight guy was

46:27

uncomfortable with me being in the room while he was having

46:29

sex or what counts for him as sex

46:32

I wouldn't have a problem with that or with him

46:34

if he was uncomfortable being at a dinner

46:37

party with me or Sitting next to me

46:39

on an airplane I would have a problem

46:41

with that and people the

46:44

existence of a woman who would entertain this

46:46

man's offer Suggests the existence

46:49

of a circle of friends who enjoy sexually

46:51

charged events or might enjoy a sexually

46:53

charged Flourish or garnish at

46:55

an event that isn't strictly sexual Just

46:58

because this wouldn't fly in your sex positive

47:00

social group doesn't mean it wouldn't fly in anyone's

47:03

but for the record I'm all for Inclusive

47:06

play and inclusive group play

47:08

when groups play or book clubs meet

47:11

I'm also for people being allowed

47:13

to decide for themselves who they want in the room During

47:16

what for them is a sexual experience

47:18

if the caller the original caller thinks

47:20

this friend is making it all about him She can

47:22

tell him to fuck off and if the caller objects

47:25

on principle to someone who isn't

47:27

comfortable doing their sex stuff with

47:30

trans women in the room or any

47:32

other Marginalized community if

47:34

that is a turn off for her she can tell

47:37

him to fuck off But

47:39

I don't think she's obligated to tell him

47:41

to fuck off for the same reason I wouldn't tell

47:43

a straight friend. She couldn't sleep

47:45

with some straight guy who didn't want me around

47:48

While it was happening It would

47:51

suck if there was a trans woman who wanted to join

47:53

this group and wasn't allowed to because

47:55

of the naked weirdo Waiter, which is why

47:58

I advise the caller if and when a trans

48:01

woman wants to join the book club to

48:03

send the naked weirdo waiter packing.

48:06

All right, for more listener comments and

48:08

more of my responses, check out struggle session

48:11

posted on Thursdays at savage.love where

48:13

I respond to comments, emails, and DMs.

48:16

It is another perk for my Magnum subs for all

48:18

the perks become my sub right now

48:21

at savage.love. All right, now

48:23

on to listener response calls.

48:26

Hey, I'm calling in response to the guy from last week who

48:28

was struggling with his aromantic identity.

48:31

I agree with everything Dan said, but in

48:33

addition to that, I just wanted to say that there sort of is

48:36

already a socially acceptable script for

48:38

setting people's expectations in this situation. You

48:40

can just say, I'm not looking

48:42

for a relationship right now. And in my experience,

48:45

as someone who's usually looking to stay single,

48:48

people don't really dig deeper into

48:50

that. And then if they do

48:52

want a further explanation, you can give them one.

48:55

Hi, I'm calling up with the man from episode 880

48:58

who was having an emotional affair with

49:00

a woman at his work. I think

49:02

the advice was good that they definitely should not

49:05

pursue that as a

49:07

relationship. She should not ask

49:09

her husband for a divorce or for a polyamorous

49:12

situation. I can't imagine

49:14

adding that on top of having four small

49:17

children at home while you are working. I

49:20

think it would be hard pressed to find someone

49:22

in the same situation who is completely satisfied

49:25

because having four small children

49:28

has got to be so exhausting

49:31

and stressful. I can't imagine there's much left

49:33

at the end of the day. And as

49:36

a single parent, I can tell you that what's worse

49:38

than being a married single mom with

49:40

a companionable relationship with four

49:42

young kids is being a single

49:45

mother of four that is also

49:47

working, that is going to be

49:49

even more stressful and dating is going

49:52

to be almost impossible in that situation.

49:55

Hey, Dan, response to the burning man opened

49:57

last week. You joked around and called him the orgy.

50:00

which it certainly is in some spaces. I actually

50:02

attended my first all-femme orgy

50:04

this year, and it was absolutely fabulous.

50:07

But it's also a really important venue for folks

50:09

who are exploring their sexuality. I serve

50:11

as a public dungeon top out there and

50:13

have given a number of people what I believe is

50:15

the first truly erotic

50:17

experience of their lives.

50:19

Being from the Bay Area, I can go to kink and BDSM

50:21

events every week if I want to. But for

50:23

folks coming to Burning Man from more rural or

50:26

conservative areas, it may be the first chance they

50:28

have to explore kink in a safe

50:30

and social environment.

50:31

I know Burning Man can play a big role in me wanting

50:34

to get more involved in the scene.

50:36

And I was told by multiple people this year that

50:38

experiences they had in our camp and

50:40

dungeon changed their lives with respect to body

50:42

confidence and sexuality. Burning

50:44

Man isn't just for the influencers, ADM kids,

50:46

DJs, and artists. It's also a really important

50:49

space for kinksters. You don't have to drink

50:51

or do drugs to come out and just get a really good

50:53

stinking umplia.

50:55

And we're gonna leave

50:58

it there. Got a question for next week's Love

51:00

Cast. Just hoping to say about something I said on this

51:02

week's Love Cast, go to savage.love.

51:04

Slash ask Dan. Right now while

51:06

the question is fresh in your mind to record your

51:09

question or again, a comment, you

51:11

can also use the voice memo app on your phone

51:13

and email your question or comment to q at

51:15

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51:17

can leave us a message at 206-302-2064. While

51:22

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51:40

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51:47

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51:52

Goyal on Twitter at Darshida Goyal

51:54

with two L's.

51:55

The Savage Love Cast is produced every

51:57

week by Nancy Ertunian and me and.

51:59

I'm a tech savvy athlete. You can go. I'll

52:02

be back at you next week with our installment of the Savage

52:04

Moncast.

52:05

Thank you.