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1:14

What's the state of high-speed rail in

1:16

the U.S.? The rest of the world

1:18

has found a way to travel faster,

1:20

more convenient, that focuses growth around stations

1:23

and fights climate change. It's

1:25

Wednesday, May 29th. Tickets please,

1:27

tickets please. It's Science Friday. I'm

1:35

Sci-Fi producer Dee Peter Schmidt. Unlike major

1:37

countries, including Japan, China, and France, that

1:39

have invested in trains that go upwards

1:41

of 200 mph, the

1:44

U.S. does not have a high-speed rail system, even

1:46

though the country was once known for its railroads

1:48

in the 1800s. But

1:50

it looks like we're at a turning point.

1:52

California's high-speed rail project, which aims to connect

1:54

Los Angeles to San Francisco, is

1:56

well underway, and there are lots of other exciting

1:58

rail projects gaining steam. across the country. Here's

2:02

Ira with a look at some of those

2:04

undertakings and why there's been renewed investment in

2:06

rail infrastructure in the U.S. There's a

2:08

lot to talk about and here to give us

2:10

an update on high-speed rail in the U.S. and

2:12

what challenges it still faces is

2:14

my guest, Rod Derridaen, co-chair of the

2:17

U.S. High Speed Rail Association. Welcome to

2:19

Science Friday. Nice to be here. Thank

2:21

you for inviting me. You're

2:23

welcome. You know, Rod, it's so frustrating, isn't

2:25

it, to talk about high-speed rail in America?

2:27

It's almost an oxymoron. It's

2:30

not just frustrating. It's embarrassing. We travel

2:32

around the world. We see the other

2:34

countries, 18 other countries with

2:36

high-speed rail systems, and

2:38

the United States is supposed to be a world leader

2:41

dominated by the oil companies to the extent

2:43

that we haven't created

2:45

high-speed rail, which of course is electrically

2:48

powered. And why has it

2:50

taken it so long then to get these kinds

2:52

of projects going in the U.S.? We

2:54

have been wedded to the petroleum-powered

2:56

automobile for the last hundred years

2:59

and has assumed the

3:02

responsibility for our transportation requirements,

3:05

the automobile, the aircraft now,

3:08

and we just have to break that addiction

3:11

and recognize that the rest of the world

3:13

has found a way to travel faster,

3:16

more convenient, that

3:18

focuses growth around stations and fights

3:21

climate change. Yeah, so we have

3:23

chosen to go the highway route while the other

3:25

countries have gone the railroad route. That's

3:27

exactly right. Not only railroads

3:30

for longer distances, but

3:32

also using trolleys and light

3:34

rail and commuter rail and

3:36

other devices for feeder distribution

3:38

systems that really get us

3:40

away from the overcrowded highways and

3:43

the overuse of petroleum fuel. And

3:45

at what speeds do trains need

3:47

to travel to qualify as, quote,

3:50

high-speed rail? The International

3:52

High-Speed Rail Association declares that

3:54

300 kilometers per hour

3:57

is the high-speed rail Measurement

3:59

Point. And. That's a hundred

4:01

eighty six miles an hour. new, you

4:03

know, here in the Northeast where I

4:05

live. I've travelled on Amtrak many times

4:07

between Washington and Boston, and I've actually

4:10

track the speed of sobs. The Amtrak

4:12

train in the never goes more than

4:14

one hundred and twenty five. or maybe

4:16

close to one fifty at a couple

4:18

of points, so that. That doesn't

4:20

really qualify as high speed rail, though. We sort

4:22

of considerate that to be. Your. Rights

4:25

as a salah is a is the

4:27

highest speed we have an United States

4:29

or but it would not qualify as

4:31

high speeds around the world. All

4:34

right let's talk about possibly some good

4:36

news. Hairless Talk About California is high

4:39

speed rail project that has been in

4:41

the works for decades. Like I said

4:43

earlier it it aims to connect L

4:46

A to San Francisco. we just under

4:48

three hours you been closely involved in

4:50

that process over the years it's been

4:52

taking a long time. Has a not

4:55

what what is the status of that

4:57

project now. When. It's broken through

4:59

really With the help of Jerry

5:02

Brown and now Gavin Newsom who

5:04

are determined I speed rail advocates

5:06

for is broken through to the

5:09

point where it's been under construction

5:11

now since. Technically. Since

5:13

Ninety Ninety Six, but really aggressively

5:16

since About Two Thousand and Eight,

5:18

and the sister between Bakersfield and

5:20

Or said in the Central Valley.

5:23

Is. Now lot out. oh seventy

5:25

percent complete. Her. The

5:27

abbey infrastructure work is pretty

5:29

well done. A with the

5:31

decree crossings in that major interchange points in

5:34

those kinds of saints and A is expected

5:36

to be in full operation by the end

5:38

of the decade. At. That's aggressive

5:41

objective. But. It looks like is going

5:43

to be accomplished. Will have have any extensions. I mean

5:45

Cedar lines are go in and out of it. Yes

5:48

it will service to central valley which

5:50

has a couple of million people in

5:52

it so as not insignificant but it

5:54

would be. Operating with enough

5:56

so ridership to cover all of

5:58

it's operating costs. The one out

6:01

at the same time that this

6:03

has that does starter line is

6:05

being completed. The line between.

6:08

The. Central Valley and Silicon Valley is

6:10

the one that will allow us

6:12

to be and making money. Cover is

6:14

operating costs and that line. Of

6:17

from a place called Chowchilla. As

6:19

you south of are said. To. Gilroy.

6:22

Are under a dog wider range of

6:24

mountains in fact it takes of. For.

6:27

Tulsa, one of and fifteen miles

6:29

long, Under that great mountain

6:31

range. To. Have known Hamilton

6:33

Rage and it will come out near

6:36

Gilroy and join the tell train system

6:38

at Gilroy. At that point

6:40

we have a connection then between now.

6:43

And the Central Valley. And which

6:45

is the a population that likes to

6:48

commute each day terribly two and half

6:50

hours? Three hours for direction. Between.

6:52

That's an area where housing is more

6:55

affordable. And. And Silicon Valley where

6:57

the jobs are. And. That's the

6:59

market that we're really trying to tap.

7:01

And those are the people that were

7:03

trying to serve. The. Arab experience

7:05

a terrible lifestyle now where they have

7:07

to get up before the kids wake

7:09

up in the morning to and have

7:12

three and a half hours later burning

7:14

for the seven dollar a gallon gasoline

7:16

on dangerous roads. They. Arrive at

7:18

work. And. Then they're supposed to do.

7:20

A day's work and or then in

7:22

the evening they get back on those

7:25

roads and to and have three and

7:27

five hours later they get home. It.

7:29

Would that arduous trip? After the

7:31

kids are going to bed and that's a

7:33

terrible lifestyle, Instead of that, they'll be on

7:36

the high speed train going to hundred and

7:38

twenty miles an hour. From. The

7:40

Central Valley to Silicon Valley

7:42

in fifty to sixty minutes,

7:44

Having breakfast, say catching a

7:46

nap, During. A little early work

7:48

or by computer. and arriving at

7:51

work in silicon valley you with a

7:53

short commute by the ad light rail

7:55

or buses that are already been set

7:57

to stage from the from that station

8:00

The station by the way is named after me,

8:02

the Derrida station, and they'll be

8:04

at work an hour and 15 minutes after

8:06

they leave home. They reverse

8:08

that at night and they're able to get home

8:10

and maybe even watch the Little League game with

8:12

the kid. That

8:15

does sound like an ideal situation. Ira,

8:17

that's 200,000 plus people a day. 200,000

8:20

a day? Wow. They'll

8:22

be taking that trip. At that point, the

8:25

system becomes profitable in operations.

8:29

Being of profitable, I know there's a

8:31

relatively new player on the scene and

8:33

it's a private best under rail service

8:35

called Brightline. I know some listeners of

8:38

ours in Florida might have heard of

8:40

them because there is service in Florida.

8:43

Many of our listeners have not. Tell

8:45

us what Brightline is and what service

8:47

they're doing in Florida. Tell us about

8:49

the Miami to Orlando service there. Brightline

8:52

is a breath of fresh air. They may not

8:54

make all of the deadlines that they hope, but

8:56

they're doing a great job. That service

8:59

is a Brightline project. It was

9:01

a dedicated right of way

9:04

and they were able to move ahead rather

9:06

expeditiously. They're

9:08

doing well financially. I don't know whether

9:10

they're turning a profit yet on operations,

9:12

but they're coming close and

9:15

it's a way to examine for

9:18

the way forward. They're

9:20

building a route between Las Vegas and

9:22

Los Angeles? Actually, it doesn't quite

9:24

go to Los Angeles. It goes to a

9:26

place called Cucamonga. It's

9:29

the butt of many jokes because- I remember

9:31

an old Jack Benny routine that

9:34

ended in Cucamonga. There

9:38

is a town called Cucamonga. It's a nice little

9:40

town. It's a place

9:42

where the commuter line,

9:45

LA Metro, ends and

9:47

they'll be able to tap then right

9:49

into the LA metropolitan transportation system. They're

9:52

a little bit of a different kind

9:54

of transportation system than the California system.

9:57

They're going to be in the middle of a freeway. The

10:00

right of way all dedicated to them by given

10:02

to them by the state. And. At

10:04

they're going to have some interchanges to

10:06

a circle That but other than that

10:09

it said they don't have to worry

10:11

about the land use and utility issues.

10:14

And at the Greenfield construction of California

10:16

I see real is already. Yes it.

10:18

but they're moving ahead quickly. They.

10:20

Have some private funding. It's nice

10:22

to have those folks in Las

10:24

Vegas and supporting you and day.

10:27

There's. Expected be an operation

10:29

by Ron Twenty Thirty. The

10:31

California project is what's called a

10:33

greenfield project. And. The words:

10:36

It has to go through areas where

10:38

there are not current transportation systems and

10:40

that makes it much more complicated. Have

10:42

to negotiate was over two thousand different

10:45

little farmers and landowners and and it's

10:47

just takes an awful long time. Many

10:50

of them and don't want to settle

10:52

quickly because we go through eminent domain

10:54

and and fight it does. You.

10:56

Reduce your tax burdens and so

10:58

there's every encouragement to delay. And.

11:01

Of course behind the scenes he we

11:03

have the oil companies who are attempting

11:05

to delay the project Also. Because.

11:08

As soon as high speed rail goes

11:10

into effect to sort out, their lines

11:12

between those served cities are no longer

11:15

profitable. And as in Europe

11:17

and France is just outlawed. short

11:19

hop airlines between cities that are

11:22

served by high speed rail. Interesting

11:24

So of Us companies are certainly

11:26

not very happy with size speed

11:28

rail system. Speaking. Of

11:31

the trip from Vegas to L

11:33

A, let's talk about be total

11:35

commute time. Bright Line says on

11:37

it's website that the trip between

11:39

Vegas to Rancho Cucamonga will be

11:41

just two hours and ten minutes.

11:43

How does that compare to a

11:45

car or a plane. Had

11:47

two hours and ten minutes but then

11:49

have to either agile Glenda, that Ted

11:51

that is. It's certainly all lot better

11:54

than driving by car at all. He

11:56

is a lot better on the people

11:58

littered are taking a trip. My.

12:00

To in terms of climate change

12:02

show putting people in an electrically

12:05

powered I speed train where there

12:07

is no pollution virtually no pollution

12:09

is a great step forward than

12:11

having people I sort out their

12:13

line or car will be of

12:15

which are the most polluting devices

12:17

on a seat mile basis. We

12:20

been talking about California in Florida,

12:22

but I understand there are some

12:24

other region in the Us. That

12:27

are planning for high speed rail

12:29

that you're excited about The city

12:31

pairs that are too long to

12:33

drive between, but too short to

12:35

justify a plane trip? Tell us

12:37

about those. Why they it's specifically

12:39

especially in the Pacific Northwest and

12:41

then in Texas town. Talk about

12:43

those. The largest area

12:45

that said looking at it now

12:48

Chicago and are several are outside

12:50

of Chicago to St Louis said

12:52

that are under consideration and and

12:54

big studied and upgraded. From

12:57

current day systems. Are,

12:59

but the new high speed rail projects

13:01

that are being under the under consideration

13:03

are really moving I had now are

13:05

the north west corner. And. That's

13:07

from most Seattle down to. Portland.

13:10

And maybe on down to Eugene. And

13:13

and the Texas Triangle though is

13:15

that movie gad they were ahead

13:17

of of of everybody else. And

13:19

then the. The governor

13:21

of at last gov stop the project

13:24

and now it's moving ahead again. Gradually

13:26

the Florida project had been way ahead

13:28

of everybody else and and they were

13:31

stopped by their governor and they they

13:33

had received quite a nice grant from.

13:36

The. Obama administration and and they gave

13:38

that money back. By. German,

13:40

the seller quarter as great potential

13:42

to upgrade some of their track

13:44

to high speed rail. They're going

13:46

to have to change their rolling

13:49

stock to be electrically powered. A

13:51

high speed rail trains that they have

13:53

the market. And have the opportunity to

13:56

and will they had very very quickly. when

13:58

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15:35

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15:38

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to If This Hall Could Talk wherever you get

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podcasts. Do

16:02

you feel there has been a

16:06

shift in the thinking about expanding rail

16:08

system in the U.S.? I

16:11

think the shift has been dramatic over the

16:13

last several years. People

16:15

have begun to travel around the world and

16:18

there are 18 countries, all of the advanced

16:20

countries and many of the emerging countries now

16:22

have high speed rail. And

16:24

they're replacing those short hop airlines that cause

16:26

all the pollution and use all that petroleum

16:29

and make the noise and so on with

16:31

the high speed rail trains. And

16:35

as we travel around the world, the Americans

16:37

travel a lot, we see

16:39

these other countries serve so wonderfully.

16:42

For example, China, they have 27,000 miles of

16:44

235 mile an hour high speed trains and

16:51

they've shifted much of their

16:54

passenger and some of their freight

16:56

work to over to the high

16:58

speed rail systems which are non

17:00

polluting. They don't

17:02

require the diesel fuel that

17:04

the old trains do and

17:07

get you there much faster and more conveniently.

17:10

Yeah. And I imagine that the

17:12

cities would benefit from all the

17:14

jobs that they would create building

17:16

the rail system and not just

17:18

making it easier for commuters. Well,

17:21

it will be a new boom in probably

17:24

organized labor work. Remember

17:27

when the original railroads were built

17:29

in America, it was the

17:31

birth of the middle class because that's

17:34

when organized labor really began

17:36

to be involved with the

17:39

railroad unions and building everything from the

17:41

tracks to operating the trains and running

17:43

the depots and providing the

17:45

insurance and all of the rest. At

17:48

one point, 40% of the jobs in the

17:50

United States were associated with the railroads.

17:53

Now we're going back into that boom period

17:55

for railroads again. And

17:57

it'll be helpful to everybody from the...

18:00

that cleans out the cars to

18:03

the person riding. Wow. As

18:06

you say, you have a

18:08

transit station named after you in

18:10

San Jose. Are you hoping that

18:12

your grandchildren are going to be

18:14

riding the high speed rail? Well,

18:17

I'd love to be able to do it myself, but

18:19

at 85, that's nip and tuck. But

18:22

I have four grandchildren who I

18:24

know will ride that train and

18:26

remember grandpa. And more

18:29

importantly, I have four grandchildren that

18:31

will have a better chance at having a

18:33

good life because we shifted

18:36

people away from automobiles and buses

18:38

and airplanes

18:41

onto electrically powered

18:43

trains and maybe save

18:45

the environment a bit. Well, Rod,

18:47

we wish you, your family and everybody else in

18:49

the train business good luck and we'll be rooting

18:52

and watching along with you. Thank you for taking time

18:54

to be with us today. Ira,

18:56

thank you so much for looking into this issue.

18:59

The future of the world depends on us moving

19:01

over to electric power. Thank you.

19:04

Rod Dyridon is co-chair of the

19:06

US High Speed Rail Association. That's

19:09

all the time we have for today. Lots of folks help make

19:11

the show happen, including Jordan Smudgik,

19:13

Rasha Uridi, Charles Bergquist,

19:15

Shoshana Buckshdown. Next time, we'll take a

19:17

look at the growing field of medicine

19:20

trying to better understand how we age

19:22

using our metabolism. I'm Sci-fi

19:24

producer Dee Peterschmidt. See you then. Travel

19:29

is great, but planning for travel can

19:32

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19:34

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19:36

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19:38

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19:41

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19:45

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19:47

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19:50

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