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more, cease to. Receive.

2:23

I think we're all had a

2:25

culturally coming around to as idea

2:28

that intelligence might exist. Things that

2:30

are brainless is Tuesday, June Fourth

2:32

and you're listening to science for

2:34

that. I'm

2:37

so sorry. Producer session or bucks? Are

2:40

plants intelligent? Meet you? That's not.

2:42

A question you ever thought to

2:44

ask. and until recently even partners

2:47

were hesitant to ask the question

2:49

publicly. that is. But that's changed

2:51

in recent years. Scientists have identified

2:53

how plants communicate with each other,

2:55

responded, touch, store memories, and deceived

2:57

animals for their own benefit. All

2:59

birds of evidence that suggests that

3:01

place that has a unique form

3:03

of intelligence that we have so

3:05

far been overlooking. Here's guess whos

3:07

aerial? Do a mouse with more.

3:10

Joining. Me now is Zoe Slinger author

3:12

of the new book the Like. Eaters

3:14

How the unseen world of plant

3:16

intelligence offers a new understanding of

3:18

life on Earth. She's. Also

3:20

climate reporter for the Atlantic based

3:22

in Brooklyn. New York. Zoe.

3:24

I loved your book! Welcome to Science

3:27

Friday! I'm so glad to hear it. I'm

3:29

sorry to be here. Yet, think

3:31

for being here. So it's not often

3:33

that I read a popular science book

3:35

and I am genuinely having my. Mind.

3:37

Blown throughout. How did this book

3:39

hop in? What compelled you to

3:41

write this. Yeah, I

3:44

was compelled to write this because of

3:46

how mind blowing these findings were to

3:48

me as well. I'm a climber porter

3:50

and I've been covering climate change for

3:52

something like seven years and I was

3:54

starting to get really burnt out and

3:56

his lawyer he could relate to this

3:58

planet in says a drag. And

4:00

I'm feeling really know to material

4:03

to first disconnected from author. Real.

4:05

Impact as as climate and a

4:08

was looking around for something as

4:10

I could covered it kind of

4:12

related myself and I sort of

4:14

switched. My lens some climate

4:16

generals to funny journals. And

4:19

to my immense surprise.

4:22

Guests were fighting over whether or

4:24

not plants could be considered. Intelligence

4:27

or even concept. And I realized

4:29

right away as if scientists were

4:32

talking about this in public and

4:34

journals that there must be a

4:36

whole world as. Evidence and findings

4:38

at work forcing us to bubble up

4:40

to the surface. And so sad. Combat

4:42

nests and. They were also the most

4:44

delightful people I've ever sit. I the

4:46

were identified imagine. People

4:49

are great. As I was reading

4:51

your book, I was consistently surprised

4:53

by the cleverness. Have plans for

4:55

lack of better word when it comes

4:58

to their ability to protect themselves against

5:00

harm. What's your favorite example of a

5:02

plants. Devious behavior to

5:04

get insects stood to leave them alone.

5:07

Oh yes. Okay, so I was

5:09

thinking about tomato plants because they're

5:11

everywhere we've all grown and in

5:13

our gardens. What? Scientists didn't

5:15

realize until like the late nineties

5:18

with that tomato plants would. Sample

5:20

that for curtains and saliva from

5:23

whatever caterpillar were eating them. Some

5:25

analysts either. Predators in a situation?

5:28

In some information.

5:30

They with synthesize chemical compounds in their

5:32

bodies and and exude them through their

5:35

pores. that with some and the exact.

5:37

Parasitic list at would want

5:39

to come into their eggs

5:41

into. The caterpillar bodies. And

5:44

then I lost eggs with hatch. And

5:46

the larva he gets the to the

5:49

color from the inside out and then

5:51

glazed. It's little tic tac shaped two

5:53

kittens the. Outside. Of the caterpillar

5:55

body and are you know that how

5:57

the plant tries to save itself? It's

5:59

just an extreme the a mental approach

6:02

to self preservation and also like playing

6:04

the long game breakers. This process isn't

6:06

exactly happened super quickly, it. Takes a

6:09

while that we see that a lot.

6:11

There's this interesting dad's between oh kind

6:13

of predators. And prey in nature including

6:15

the one between insects and part because.

6:18

If you think about it in a lot of cases, The.

6:21

Popular Stage and the insect is

6:23

the. One. Next eating the plant. And

6:25

they don't want to be destroyed. The point isn't

6:28

to be completely destroyed. But yeah, in the leading

6:30

face of a case. He. Though

6:32

winged insist that might come after the

6:34

category of a it might be. It's

6:37

power meter ran everybody. Sort of

6:39

coming within. This a hair's

6:41

width and. Depth. And

6:43

away or this funny struggle to ultimately all

6:45

survived the plant once the caterpillar to make

6:47

it to the butterfly stage. but it doesn't

6:49

wanna get completely eaten so much so that

6:52

it can benefit from that states exactly. And

6:54

by the way, I just want to be

6:56

clear when I say that a plant want

6:58

something I'm sure to. So you've had to

7:00

do this the whole pie him but you've

7:02

been talking about your book were using these

7:04

words that aren't. Typically use for

7:06

plants and. I understand, if for some

7:08

listeners this may be a stretch, but that's

7:10

something that you'd roots in your book. Totally.

7:13

he can't see me, but I'm using big

7:15

air quotes every time he is in his

7:17

words and I. Think. That's really

7:19

important to emphasize because I'm not suggesting.

7:21

Things are kind of little humanoid are

7:23

like little animal creatures have been a

7:26

different form. They are. To

7:28

branch of life that so entirely their

7:30

own. And they're so alien to us

7:32

in so many ways. I mean, they

7:34

diverge from us evolutionarily so long ago

7:37

that all of the strategies are. Really?

7:40

Really so other three for them to

7:42

other from suit is useful to use

7:44

these words that makes sense or human

7:46

brains like at one thing or in

7:49

of communicating or sorting predator things like

7:51

that but he just have to hold

7:53

in your mind at the same time

7:55

that whatever is going on here looks

7:58

a lot different than it would. Who

8:00

you are I. Weighed. It

8:02

might be worth diving into this a little

8:05

bit more because the I studied urology

8:07

for my undergrad and it was there that

8:09

I really understood how important it is

8:11

not to projector our own human values, desires,

8:13

or compulsions on to other animals. Because

8:15

you might miss something if you don't

8:17

put yourself fully in their shoes, so

8:20

to speak. And as I was reading

8:22

your book, I found myself really loving

8:24

how some of these researchers were talking

8:26

about plants. So I gotta ask a

8:28

what's the right way to talk about.

8:31

Plants. And and a how should we

8:33

think about using human terms. For

8:35

plants. I love this

8:37

question. I love the you have the

8:40

similarity background is it is so interesting.

8:42

What's happening now is that there are

8:44

a lot of principles and methodologies from

8:46

animal behavior being applied to think that

8:49

actually seem to pan out in you.

8:51

Did he take the came into view

8:53

and just the methodology to make sense

8:55

to something and it's all about hope.

8:57

It's complicated right? On the one hand,

9:00

these are not animals. We have told

9:02

that Nine on the other the a

9:04

parallel prophecies to honeymoon and so the

9:06

bridge between those two things I think

9:08

is mostly metaphor at least when. It

9:11

to likely people talking to each other

9:13

as opposed to scientists. I do think

9:15

we have to use these metaphor as which are

9:17

kind of near at hand to her own understanding.

9:19

To understand plans but I like to think of

9:21

it. As like. To.

9:24

Plant decision Not the kind of normal decision

9:26

but I plan to fish I I like

9:28

thirty six before the word your brain and

9:30

has to be like okay way I'm going

9:32

to hold back from completely into the more

9:35

I think the love that okay so let's

9:37

get back to them Plant sacked for a

9:39

little bit Here I got asked you are

9:41

you keeping everything. That we just had in mind. Do.

9:44

Plants have personalities or are we able

9:46

to see that yet? So.

9:50

This is an interesting one. It has a field

9:52

that's just starting to poke. Through and there's

9:54

only been a. Serious

9:57

Assessment paper. In this, but there's

9:59

a school. Be

10:02

seem to have personalities because if the way

10:04

they consistently the food or the way that

10:06

son of them consistently respond and similar way

10:09

stop in a lifetime. Animal

10:11

personality is measured on this.

10:13

Sure enough to boldness continue.

10:16

The most basic way reassess animal

10:18

personalities: risk averse versus risk taking

10:20

my interest nicely. Exactly. So

10:23

we know that plants. And. He

10:25

can't admit belittle chemicals when they're

10:27

being attacked of and can be

10:29

absorbed into the bodies of neighboring

10:31

cramps and as a bunker can

10:33

act on information that can be

10:35

immune systems producing Defense a puppy

10:37

and before. He. Didn't which

10:39

he. Said. This is what we're talking

10:41

about. mostly one attack, much Nicholson implement. Some

10:44

plants will signal wildly

10:46

at like. The slightest

10:49

disturbance. right?

10:51

So the risk averse once exactly

10:53

and then do this interesting kind

10:55

of boy who cried wolf phenomenon

10:57

where other plants in the area

10:59

might not be serbian systems in

11:01

response to the cause from the

11:03

those individuals but the other plans.

11:06

Have a much broader propensity through

11:08

to speak in that they will

11:10

only signal. The history teacher a

11:12

severe. And. Other plants appear

11:14

to. Actually, Respond

11:17

to that cause much more

11:19

sensitively. Wow. Okay this again

11:22

this is this. The stuff in your

11:24

book is to so interesting. You also

11:26

write about the daughter of mine what

11:29

does it's behavior. Tell us about what

11:31

plants are capable of. Our lives

11:33

to determine. And because this has been brought

11:35

up, the first daughter D O D D

11:37

E are not daughter as in your. Pretty

11:40

speech issue is T V

11:42

the theory. Needle things

11:44

as take a dish. So domain

11:47

is perfect and it comes. Out

11:49

of the ground at the baby find it looks

11:51

like a little orange worm because it doesn't have

11:53

any need. For course at least it doesn't. Photosynthesize.

11:55

Ah, get everything it needs

11:57

from other plants bodies so.

12:01

Emerges in France about a

12:03

d to find have appears

12:05

that said circling the air

12:07

force and time lapse in

12:09

the world or harmful chemicals.

12:13

In equal to have found

12:15

out of from afar Ah.

12:18

Which plant nearby? The be

12:20

optimal to Clinton. Who researches

12:22

and put it between a tomato and

12:24

obese. In v if a

12:26

girl from her decline in the for

12:28

it and making hunter the daughter will

12:31

swerved and go towards the tomato. Even

12:33

researchers to to think she the doing as

12:36

they found it was actually because of the

12:38

quality of the light passing through the bodies

12:40

of other plants as able to. Hints

12:43

that fallen apart from.

12:46

Then we should have also found

12:49

that it can sense the nutritional

12:51

quality and depleted claiming researchers grant

12:53

between crap that had been grown

12:55

in like a nutrient doesn't burn

12:58

at work with nutrient supplement it

13:00

with almost always decide to climb

13:02

onto and hook it's fangs into

13:04

the plant that was grown as

13:07

nutrient supplements. Vinegar The

13:09

Film Vampiric Space Age

13:11

Three definitely in. The

13:14

amount of coils that makes represents

13:17

how much energy it think quote

13:19

unquote, it will. Need. To parasatize

13:21

it and then keep the classic hobbling

13:23

along to the want to kill it's

13:25

house. It's a good parasites. It. Just

13:28

sucks that enough sugar that it makes

13:30

it very hard to define to grow

13:32

fruit. Her daughter's actually. Dislike: Extremely

13:34

nasty agricultural. Past and like

13:36

fifty five country. Oh. Wow,

13:39

Okay, I want to go back

13:41

to something. You said that you

13:43

mention the plants sensing light which.

13:46

Had. You know instantly my mind when

13:48

to to site right. Does this mean

13:50

that That. Some plants ten.

13:53

Quote. Unquote see. You

13:55

are touching on the ferry hot as

13:57

year and bad at this very moment.

14:00

And. There's. A zine i went

14:02

to go see in she lay in the southern

14:04

cal of mean for us to see like cause

14:06

the future for a ladder. And

14:08

it is a super come into

14:10

the service For like ten years

14:13

ago researcher realized that define as

14:15

transforming it's body to look pretty

14:17

much exactly like what ever growing

14:20

beside. It should be treated for

14:22

keys in in we have some plants, many.

14:25

People to two hundred and relationship. Became.

14:28

It. Can be made

14:31

to purely spontaneously. It

14:33

would deter is going to see it. It

14:35

will attach to transform it's

14:37

beef color, beef shape, Texture

14:40

even as a pattern of between

14:42

for change to mash. What

14:44

it's gonna say that I thought

14:47

when I dunno actually unbelievable. Can

14:49

watch a plaque that's transforming in

14:51

real time? That's incredible. I

14:53

know what this has provoked some speculation

14:56

From then came the dentist see this

14:58

as evidence to you can see that

15:00

kind of like percent so many photo

15:02

receptor than their bodies and mart types

15:05

of federal sectors. Then we have in

15:07

our. And we already

15:09

know. They're very sensitive to light rain

15:11

and they're constantly sensing. You know, whether

15:13

they're being shaded by a cloud or

15:15

find that a plant. Make an in

15:17

some cases tell whether that planted their

15:20

genetic can are not am and behave

15:22

accordingly. So. Who's

15:24

the plant vision hypothesis? But there's also

15:26

a huge to have a botanist tour

15:28

guide. Ah, That's too far fetched have.

15:30

See, there's no brain. There's nowhere to

15:32

translate that information. brain. So

15:34

one of my favorite scenes in

15:37

the book is this trip that

15:39

you make to a lab where

15:41

you describe really vividly. Ah, Being.

15:44

Asked to pinch a plant and have

15:46

really hard. You write about this beautifully.

15:48

It's actually quite funny because I believe

15:50

the first time you dog don't pinch

15:53

quite hard enough and you have to

15:55

be like sort of egged on to

15:57

to family do. It the right way. But

16:01

I would love it if you could explain

16:03

what you were doing. Why were you asked

16:05

to pinch of plans and what did that

16:07

help you in the scientists in the lab

16:09

see that day. Differs.

16:11

At the lab of Son and Gilroy

16:13

who is at. The University of

16:15

Wisconsin Madison and he studies

16:18

plant. Responses. To touch.

16:20

At and in his lab he

16:22

had all these plants that have

16:25

been grown to have at these

16:27

green fluorescent. Proteins jellyfish imbued throughout

16:29

them. Soon as we sell

16:31

their screen selected protein expressing

16:33

itself are not teaching is

16:35

bound to calcium. Which. Is

16:37

thought of as a potential proxy

16:39

for electricity. So. When apart glowing

16:42

and he insists. Electricity moving through the

16:44

cell which means. Maybe. There's

16:46

an action potential them as the electricity happening

16:48

here. So. Early

16:50

as you said, as I kinda stark.

16:53

Microscope. Room and was given

16:55

us to users and they really

16:57

okay. Pinch and I are having

16:59

spent the last several years studying

17:02

plant. Receptivity and have.

17:04

Sense. Of their everything so a little

17:06

reluctant to betray hard as silly as

17:08

at some and as I pinched the

17:10

first time and the plant lit up

17:12

a little that but then they're like

17:14

you have to really go at it

17:16

so I pinch quite hard and. I

17:19

pinched across the mid rid of the leaf. This like

17:21

the main vein that you can imagine. All.

17:24

The Sanders is green glow emanating from

17:26

the place I had pinched the fleece

17:29

them then watched over the next two

17:31

minutes traveled down the vein system and

17:33

spread. Through the veins to the entire

17:35

rest of the street and this is a tiny little.

17:38

A rabbit access to it which is kind of

17:40

the lab, rat plants at the of the bought

17:42

the world and. I was literally

17:45

watching. It. Because. You

17:47

know a weird of me

17:49

trucks that as be. This

17:51

is entirely new information. To. Bought

17:53

me this idea that there may be

17:56

an electrical signal. Moving.

17:58

Through the plant body from the place. Touched

18:00

and. That a be one way.

18:02

it's understanding it's world that it

18:04

has this ability to respond very

18:07

quickly to being wounded. Yeah,

18:09

I mean, I feel inferior. To immediate

18:12

questions that come to mind for me. The.

18:15

First one being. Is

18:17

this a pain signal? And.

18:19

The second one which comes right out of that,

18:21

which is. Does this mean that. You.

18:24

Know it is. a plant has an

18:26

ability to transmit this information via something

18:28

like a pain signals. That mean that

18:30

plants have a nervous system. So.

18:33

Your first question? A Pain. I would say

18:36

definitively no, not at the moment. We have

18:38

no reason to believe plants are experiencing paint

18:40

a don't have a brain which is one

18:42

of the things that we think of is

18:45

quite necessary for any experience of pain and

18:47

pick on it. But. There's.

18:50

Something very. Nervous.

18:52

System like about how this all works

18:54

and those are my where it says

18:56

are the words and other researchers that

18:58

have like looked at what Gilroy is

19:00

doing and bound to this may influence

19:02

should be considered to have. To

19:05

type of nervous system in a sense

19:07

and it's purpose conversation around whether or

19:09

not. Nervous. Systems

19:11

could be considered a. The.

19:13

Productive com Cove. Urgent evolution

19:15

were like a system arises across

19:18

different. Types of foods

19:20

and less. Separately.

19:22

Multiple parents like Slate evolved separately

19:25

and that's And and Birds Way

19:27

and. To. Very similar effects. Could

19:29

this be another. Case of that.

19:32

And and was also very interesting is

19:34

that. We. Are now

19:36

understanding plants use neurotransmitters

19:39

glutamine, Send. It to tweezers

19:41

pinching the flat with were different glutamate.

19:43

Is an important neurotransmitter in our own

19:46

bodies, and appears to also be. Important

19:48

to signaling and plant bodies. We.

19:51

Have to take a quick break and

19:53

when we come back, I'll continue my

19:55

conversation with Science journalist Zoe Slender about

19:57

her book The Light Eaters. More.

19:59

Pack. The big questions? Are

20:01

plants conscious or barely Intelligence

20:04

Stay with us. This

20:06

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22:22

See, We've talked about chemical seeing.

22:24

We've talked about photo receptor may

22:26

be seeing it as some sort.

22:28

We've talked about summoning animals to

22:31

kill a predator. In some ways,

22:33

we've talked about a nervous system.

22:35

All of these findings. Does

22:38

that point to plant consciousness?

22:42

This. Is the big sticky? Question

22:44

I. Think

22:46

we have to go up and remember

22:48

that we sort of the mechanical basis

22:50

for consciousness. even a nerve cells that

22:52

so in a what is trenches it

22:54

was open question for humans. And.

22:57

We offered just starting to ascribe

22:59

consciousness to other. Being. I'm

23:02

sure you fat us news a

23:05

couple weeks ago where consciousness has

23:07

now been conferred to fish and

23:09

inside and crustacean so we are

23:11

constantly a widening the circle of

23:14

for we think. Contains

23:16

consciousness. And there's

23:18

also a school of thought that suggests

23:20

this consciousness all the way down. You

23:23

know there's some prominent consciousness

23:25

researchers. You suggest that even

23:27

something as. Basic. As a

23:29

cell contains some. Modicum.

23:31

Of consciousness to function. I think about.

23:35

Consciousness as a sort of awareness of

23:37

self. And an intelligence which

23:39

is maybe even higher than hundred system some

23:41

ways. Is the ability to

23:43

make good decisions. Based. On

23:45

information that you acquire from your

23:48

environment. And then can assist through

23:50

that and assess it. And

23:52

then produce response that is. Matching.

23:56

That information which is a little bit

23:58

what you've described in and. The

24:00

findings rate exactly. This. Is

24:02

my very long and most you

24:05

everything we do not know but.

24:07

It really depends on how he choose to

24:10

think about and toxins and consciousness. We may

24:12

never come to a moment where we're like

24:14

this is definitively with consciousness. Is and plants

24:16

habit. But. I think

24:18

there's a lot of evidence to to suggests he's

24:21

a good questions task. I

24:23

do have to ask. We've mentioned multiple

24:25

times that plants don't have brains. I

24:27

guess. The next logical question is, you know,

24:30

can a plant be intelligent. Without of

24:32

room. He think

24:34

oh culturally coming around his

24:36

idea that intelligence my existing

24:38

things that are blameless I

24:40

know that's. Probably. A

24:43

lot of listeners have thought about

24:45

Sunday and the new feigning ignorance

24:47

of mycelium under the ground that

24:49

are able to communicate across their

24:51

entire body that are very disparate

24:53

and have no centralized kind of

24:56

command center and I'm thinking are

24:58

starting to get more comfortable. Imagining

25:00

intuit and as a network phenomenon that

25:02

is forms of intelligence that are sort

25:04

of system with it random, centralized and

25:07

ali to think about the fact that

25:09

we evolved with blame for very good

25:11

reason. I mean we have to run

25:13

around this is flee from for a

25:15

fleet of food. Some.

25:17

Infancy Of is a three portable

25:20

command center. Footprints. Of

25:22

are rooted in place. So

25:24

there's something to be said for the

25:26

fact that she. Wouldn't.

25:28

Have produced a compact command

25:30

center Path are. Arm.

25:33

Modular. They. Can lose a limb.

25:36

At any time and be pretty much

25:38

fine and the to censor environment from

25:40

this one spot to, they have to

25:42

be able to sort of spread. That

25:44

above and below ground and that have a

25:46

way I can coordinate their finding. So to

25:48

speak about what's going on around them. With.

25:52

That necessarily require a brain. It's

25:54

not clear. That's an

25:56

excellent question to me. With this points

25:58

to is the fact that. Your

26:01

book. It is sort of a snapshot in

26:03

time of a field that is changing tanned.

26:05

we're going to find out more over the

26:07

years, which is really. Exciting. At

26:11

the same time, I can't help but think

26:13

back to a previous book. That

26:15

also had a huge impact. On

26:17

the World of plants and and your

26:19

book The Lighters it is basically and

26:21

dialogue with. It's sort of throughout, right?

26:23

I'm. Talking about a book that

26:25

was largely incorrect Ah published in

26:27

Nineteen Seventy Three called the Secret

26:30

Life of Plants. Tell.

26:32

Me about that book and it's relationship.

26:34

To yours. Absolutely so. Sort of

26:37

haunted by the stuff. Be a part

26:39

time reporting out this. The

26:41

my ears because. Botanists,

26:43

Were telling me about when that book

26:45

came out a the Such a phenomenal

26:48

popular success. That it was

26:50

incredibly embarrassing for the field when it

26:52

turned out that about half that book

26:54

or maybe more with. The pseudoscience I

26:56

mean are assessing their about plants

26:58

and reading people's minds through this

27:00

whole scene at the Cia agents

27:02

who hooked up a polygraph test.

27:04

It's have plans men like thought. About setting

27:06

them on fire and said that that

27:08

tests were wild which was suggesting they

27:10

were beating his. Mother Thoughts and

27:13

and then also if you ever hear

27:15

people talk about how their plants enjoy

27:17

Mozart more than like Rock'n'roll as often

27:19

as. In. The

27:22

effect of all of that was that. The

27:24

very conservative funding bodies of science kind

27:26

of stopped funding studies that had any

27:29

with us. Plant

27:31

behavior or and him figured into

27:33

this what was then. Beginning.

27:35

To be seen as a kind of woo woo new age.

27:38

Concert. It's.

27:41

Taken thirty forty years for that to

27:43

happen to find the were off I

27:45

think were there now and that combined

27:47

with. All. Of this incredible new

27:49

technology we hatcher sensing gas in his

27:52

and my other chemical compounds plants. Make

27:54

and ah, you know that genomic revolution

27:56

has all made it possible to ask

27:58

these questions again with me. More rigor

28:00

and I'm not talking to might be

28:03

interested in such a hater question. Can

28:06

you mean rigorous? Certainly the Fuck

28:08

is an answer to those. We

28:10

saw that kind of hit the field really hard

28:12

in a negative way and I'm hoping this will

28:14

do the opposite. I certainly

28:17

seems likely. I want to ask

28:19

though, from your perspective in writing

28:21

this book, the Light Years, how

28:23

have you shifted your understanding of

28:25

the role of plants in the

28:27

world? That. How has this affected your

28:29

relationship with your houseplants? Oh

28:31

my House. That and my Goodness. Yes.

28:33

I. Definitely walks you the

28:36

world with. A different awareness that. All

28:38

the plants around me are engaging is

28:41

very complex plant dramas all the time

28:43

with my life. I know that they

28:45

are. Potentially. Fighting underground

28:47

or communicating underground or and in

28:49

a mood rereading the leaves data

28:51

she had been neighbors are not

28:53

see the neighbors are you know

28:55

summoning insects and hard like for

28:57

mean collaboration with in head and

28:59

date has totally be enchanted my

29:01

life and in it's such the

29:03

lights out to deflect around and

29:05

see a climbing mine on like

29:07

a chain link fence and eternally.

29:10

It's. Not, I know

29:12

so much more about vines and when it

29:14

takes for them to like seek, that structure isn't.

29:18

Clamber. Over obstacles. Three

29:20

love to that about it, And it's

29:22

also touched in this general. Awareness New

29:24

The. Panthers. Totally.

29:28

The premier it beings out here. I mean, they're.

29:31

They're. Sort of synthesizing. They're eating like.

29:33

That so the coolest thing they can

29:35

do. And that means they have made

29:37

every single molecule of sugar. Through that

29:39

process but with ever since. And

29:42

or who funny for and on. Consider.

29:45

Any glucose you can't do without it. You will

29:47

sit down. Very. Quickly without

29:49

with us and we get it from nowhere

29:51

else. I mean any other from a sugar

29:54

me eat with recycled from sugar plants for

29:56

smith. And holding that kind

29:58

of. The pre. The

30:00

plants in mind really kind of

30:02

unsettles. This. Very human notion that we

30:04

are in some. Top. Of some

30:06

evolutionary cheap, you know it can. A subtle.

30:09

Filled. A steak in the the mass

30:11

of biology rather than him. Singing.

30:14

And perceived. Hierarchy: I

30:16

love when new findings.

30:18

Were a set of new findings have

30:20

this humbling effect on me and your

30:23

book certainly did that for me and

30:25

also introduce so much wonder and to

30:27

my life. So I really really appreciate

30:30

the book itself and also appreciate you

30:32

taking the time to talk to us

30:34

about it today. Thank. You so much.

30:37

And so glad I'm so gotta have

30:39

that effect. Screw toughness! So he Slinger

30:42

is the author of the Like Eaters.

30:44

How be Unseen World of Plant Intelligence

30:46

offers a new understanding of life on

30:49

earth. She's also a Climate change reporter

30:51

for the Atlantic based in Brooklyn, New

30:53

York. If you want to read an

30:56

excerpt of the book, go to Cincinnati.

30:58

Their palms use eaters that seems ready

31:00

to com/like eaters. That's all

31:03

the time we have for today.

31:05

Lots of folks help make the

31:07

show happen, including from some as

31:09

Daniel Johnston. Best Ramming Emma Gomez

31:11

Tomorrow Inside the movement of in

31:13

diseases Nations working to take control.

31:15

Of the data collected from their communities,

31:18

I'm sorry for our producer Susana Bucksbaum.

31:20

Thanks for listening to to Next time.

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