0:03

About half of US states

0:05

have legalized recreational cannabis, but

0:08

studying it is still very tricky

0:10

business. When we first

0:12

started thinking about doing cannabis research, we thought

0:14

we're going to bring people into the

0:16

lab and give them different products and see

0:19

what happens. And we very quickly

0:21

learned that it turns out that is illegal.

0:24

It's Monday, May 28th, and this is

0:26

Science Friday. I'm SciFry

0:28

producer Rasha Aredi. Earlier

0:30

this month, the Department of Justice proposed

0:32

that cannabis should be changed from Schedule

0:34

1 to Schedule 3, knocking

0:37

it down a couple of pegs in

0:39

the hierarchy of restricted drugs. So,

0:41

could this affect how scientists research

0:43

cannabis? SciFry digital producer Emma

0:46

Gomez and I dug into this question.

0:50

The Department of Justice is moving to

0:52

reclassify cannabis as a less dangerous drug

0:54

under the Controlled Substances Act. Although

0:57

if you asked my dad, he would probably say they

0:59

should make an entirely new, even more

1:02

dangerous category for weed. Anyway,

1:04

cannabis is legal in some form or another

1:06

in over half of the US, including where

1:08

I live in New York. And

1:10

where I live in Washington, DC. But

1:13

federally, it's illegal and considered

1:15

a Schedule 1 substance, meaning

1:17

that the Drug Enforcement Agency,

1:19

or the DEA, says that

1:21

it has no accepted medical use and a

1:23

high potential for abuse. In

1:26

this category, alongside cannabis, are drugs like

1:28

heroin and ecstasy. But if

1:30

this plan goes through, cannabis will drop down to

1:32

a Schedule 3 drug, putting it

1:34

on the same level as drugs like

1:36

ketamine and some steroids. The

1:39

DEA says drugs in this category

1:41

have a moderate to low potential

1:43

for dependence. And it's

1:45

kind of set the cannabis industry abuzz.

1:47

To my parents listening, this change

1:50

will not affect me, nor my

1:52

esteemed colleague Rasha. We would

1:54

never consider doing anything federally illegal, even if

1:56

it is legal in my state. Right, Rasha?

1:59

Yes, Of course. Wouldn't dare Mom and

2:01

Dad wouldn't dare. Let's

2:05

go back to your history books. We'd

2:07

wasn't supposed to be a schedule

2:09

one drug in the first place.

2:11

In Nineteen Seventy, President Nixon's line

2:13

to the Controlled Substances Act into

2:16

law canada classified as a schedule

2:18

one drug just temporarily until his

2:20

commission could review that science is

2:22

to make a recommendation. And they

2:25

did. They said that we should

2:27

be decriminalize altogether ak a he

2:29

can of the list completely just

2:31

like alcohol is. But Nixon ignored

2:34

that recommendation and continue to wage

2:36

this. War on Drugs, one that

2:38

spanned through many administration's now. So

2:40

as a result, Wheat has been

2:42

at the top of the drug

2:44

classification pyramid for decades now. Now.

2:48

This move wouldn't decriminalize cannabis, it mostly

2:50

just acknowledges that it had shown the

2:53

proved medical uses and doctors would be

2:55

allowed to prescribe it instead of just

2:57

recommending it like they do now. But.

3:00

Having it without a prescription but still be illegal under

3:02

federal law. So. How do

3:04

scientists study cannabis use now? And

3:06

would this reclassification make research more

3:08

accessible are easier for them? Because.

3:11

As you can imagine, Giving. Someone in

3:13

a legal substance and studying what happens

3:15

to them. It's a challenging. Last

3:18

fall a man I went out

3:20

to Colorado which was the very

3:22

first date alongside Washington to legalize

3:24

recreational cannabis. And then I talked

3:27

with scientists at the University of

3:29

Colorado Schemes lab in Boulder which

3:31

that is cannabis use and they

3:33

come up with the way to

3:35

skirt around these really strict federal

3:37

road blocks in order to study

3:40

what's going on the market. Enter

3:42

the See You Change Mobile Lab

3:44

affectionately known as the Canavan. At

3:51

the helm of this project or

3:53

psychologist Dr. Cinnamon Bedwell and Doctor

3:55

Angela Bryan, we sat down with

3:58

Angela. When we say. Started

4:00

thinking about doing cannabis research and in

4:02

a legalization had just happened and we

4:05

thought wow it's this brave new world

4:07

of doing research on the potential risks

4:09

and benefits of cannabis legalization. We're going

4:11

to bring people into the lab and

4:14

give them different products and see what

4:16

happens and we very quickly learned that

4:18

it turns out that is illegal arms

4:21

so we landed on the solution of

4:23

well as we can't bring the people

4:25

to the lab will bring the lab

4:28

to the people. These vans basically

4:30

have a built in lab. One.

4:32

Damn belong to a project that has

4:34

how different levels of Thc or Cbd

4:36

affect how you remember information. If

4:38

you sign up to participate, the team will drive over

4:40

to your place and you'll meet them inside the then.

4:43

Eventually Lopez is a research assistant at the

4:45

lab. And that day. I. Was

4:47

her guinea pig? Have you had

4:49

caffeine or tobacco in the last four hours? I've

4:52

had caffeine and last for hours. In

4:54

that scenario we would say and have

4:56

to reschedule. You and for him.

4:59

Try to make sure that

5:01

everyone that like very natural

5:03

baseline and and then and

5:05

nevermind a survey. And

5:08

you will also as if our but

5:10

has there has any alcohol or cannabis

5:12

for the last twenty four hour. Out

5:15

of the Last Night Live. Twice?

5:20

Okay. If.

5:23

This was really part of the experiment. I would have done

5:26

a blood test and then in. Eg, which measures

5:28

electrical activity in the brain. At.

5:30

This point I'd hypothetically go home and

5:33

use the we're This lab work said

5:35

local dispenser used to monitor who gets

5:37

what kind of cannabis products so they

5:39

can control experiments And so after I

5:41

pretend passed on my mind blind I

5:43

go back to the van and repeat

5:45

oldest have to get. And. How

5:49

we'd have. Enough money

5:51

for a few years ago. They compared

5:53

how different strength the cannabis products ranging

5:55

from sixteen to nineteen. A

6:00

huge. Difference and potency. The T

6:03

V impair people's memories and a

6:05

similar way. Okay,

6:07

So studying memory is one way

6:09

this team is trying to unravel

6:11

how we'd affect the body. Another

6:13

set of experiments is looking at

6:15

aging, specifically with adults older than

6:17

sixty. They're one of the fastest

6:19

growing demographics of cannabis users in

6:21

the U S. Since we'd can

6:23

help with fleet Joint pain mood

6:25

anxiety. Doctor Angel Bryant, the leader

6:27

of this project has some questions

6:29

about it. First. Of all,

6:31

do they see any benefits from using

6:34

these products for those and outcomes. But

6:36

also what risks do we need to

6:38

think about with older adults? I'm using

6:40

cannabis sell For older adults I would

6:42

ask about things like are you dizzy?

6:44

Are you gonna fall down We know

6:46

that falls are one of the things

6:48

that compromises quality of life more than

6:51

just about anything else. For older adults,

6:53

you know we're looking at things like

6:55

balance and memories and shan and cognitive

6:57

function And then we look at the

6:59

potential benefits that they're experiencing. Arm based

7:01

on which product they're taking. This project

7:03

measures the health effects of weed on

7:05

older adults and it's research assistant Have

7:07

seen just how much it affects protests

7:09

and on a personal level. Year on

7:12

Madeleines Singer and for me. So for.

7:14

The. we had of her to settle on while ago who.

7:17

They. Hide. I think they had. Had throat

7:19

cancer or something like that. Answer: yeah lot

7:21

of on like nerve damage from surgeries and

7:23

he had been on all kinds of different

7:25

prescriptions and then he tried his product and

7:28

he was like i don't feel it anymore

7:30

Really cool stories like that. A really great

7:32

the I like it when people tell me

7:34

is not working either because like we need

7:37

to know like the whole point is Snelling

7:39

what's working, what's not working. Why are we

7:41

missing? Like what do we are in know

7:43

things like that. Okay so. We've talked about

7:46

how the food. Chain scientists are digging

7:48

into the effects. Of Cannabis on

7:50

memory on older adults and the

7:52

Last Element. We're. Going. To get into

7:54

is the effect on exercise. And.

7:56

I know you're thinking that smoking weed would

7:59

usually make someone. Lay down and take a

8:01

long nap. Not. Run a marathon.

8:03

But. The face of it might surprise you.

8:06

Your. To Angela again. One. Of

8:08

the things on canvas legalization happens for

8:10

me was oh my gosh. I mean

8:13

I have the same stereotypes everybody else

8:15

does is everyone's gonna be using a

8:17

lot of cannabis and sitting on the

8:20

couch eating doritos? What is that? the

8:22

the physical activity and Fiat. But I

8:24

quickly learned that actually there's this interesting

8:27

paradox that cannabis use said cannabis users

8:29

in big epidemiological studies stay have lower

8:31

risk for type two diabetes, lower be

8:34

am I better ways to hip ratio

8:36

better and son function. And

8:38

I was like why it's so

8:40

It's this interesting paradox, right? Do

8:42

we know the mechanism of how

8:44

that happened? We don't We don't.

8:46

What I will tell you is

8:49

that a lot of the recent

8:51

work that selling associations between said

8:53

have it's uses Physical activity in

8:55

particular have been done in states

8:57

that have legalized Colorado. California.

9:00

Oregon, Washington, Washington D C what

9:02

is a states also have in

9:04

common highest rates of physical activity

9:06

in the nation So I say

9:08

all this with a bit of

9:10

a grain of salt because we

9:12

don't know if this association holds

9:14

across the whole country in every

9:16

state on but that said graduate

9:18

student who just finished and did

9:20

a study where we use of

9:22

hands you go to people's houses

9:24

we drew blood day went inside

9:26

and use their flower cannabis products.

9:28

We drove. Them back to the lab

9:30

and they ran on a treadmill for

9:32

thirty minutes. Why? And we did that

9:34

with. These

9:37

were people who were experience at

9:39

doing that. So we recruited people

9:41

who use Yahoo their runners They

9:43

use cannabis, so they did this

9:45

once under the influence of either

9:48

a Thc product or a Cbd

9:50

products and then once without using

9:52

cannabis and we compared their experience.

9:54

They had a better experience. stay

9:56

on salt, more of the runner's

9:58

high ceiling. Even. Though they were. doing the

10:00

exact same running activity at the exact

10:03

same intensity, the two sessions.

10:05

So we think there might be something

10:07

about the experience of physical activity during

10:09

cannabis use that makes the

10:12

two have a linkage. But

10:16

again, we're some of the first people to be

10:18

doing that work because we have the VAN technology

10:20

to be able to do it, but it's really

10:22

exciting to think about. So that's one

10:25

of the- You're just breaking my brain here. Everything

10:28

I know is a lie. I know,

10:30

I know. The

10:33

folks at CU Change are clearly working to

10:35

get a lot of answers to a lot

10:37

of questions. So what happens next?

10:39

And what do they do with this information?

10:42

There are a few different constituencies that we think

10:44

about in all of this work. Most

10:47

important are the people who are using

10:49

these products. I think, you know, whether

10:51

you're using them recreationally or there's some

10:54

medical benefit that you'd like to

10:56

get from using these products, I think

10:58

we need more information to be able

11:00

to tell you what are the potential

11:02

harms and benefits of different kinds of

11:04

preparations of different levels of THC and

11:06

CBD. The

11:09

other constituency is medical providers.

11:11

So in the context of

11:13

people who are wanting to use medicinally, they'll go

11:15

to their providers and they'll say, you know, I

11:17

think I want to try cannabis for my pain.

11:20

And for the most part, the data

11:22

show that doctors respond to that favorably,

11:25

but the answer is, okay,

11:27

sounds good. I don't know

11:29

what to tell you. Oh no, not what you want

11:32

to hear from a doctor. Not what you want to

11:34

hear from a doctor. And especially if you're a cancer

11:36

patient. So we'd like

11:38

for medical providers to have more

11:40

information. And then the third constituency

11:42

is the regulatory bodies, right? So

11:45

people who are making the rules about, you know, maybe

11:47

it's not a good idea that we have 95% THC

11:49

concentrates on

11:52

the market. Maybe that's too much, but

11:54

we don't know. Because we don't have

11:56

those data yet. And, you know, in terms

11:58

of the products that people can purchase. if

12:00

I'm going to buy a topical or

12:02

a tincture or whatever, I'd

12:05

like to know, well, is that going to do

12:07

anything for me? Or am I spending money for

12:09

something that really isn't going to have any impact?

12:11

Like gimmicky. Exactly. Just

12:15

this week, a new study from the

12:17

National Survey on Drug Use and Health

12:19

reported that more people are consuming weed

12:21

every day than there are people drinking

12:23

alcohol on a daily basis. So

12:25

untangling the science is more important than ever.

12:28

But why haven't we figured it out yet? Part

12:31

of it basically boils down to having very

12:33

tight rules. It's because of

12:35

the way the National Institutes of Health sets

12:37

up the funding structure for this work. Because

12:40

cannabis was put on the Schedule

12:43

I list of drugs, we

12:45

were really for many years only

12:47

able to study it in the

12:49

context of abuse. And

12:51

we were also only allowed to

12:54

study the product that's grown by

12:56

the National Institute on Drug Abuse on

12:59

one specific farm in Mississippi. So if you wanted

13:01

to study weed, you would have had to special

13:03

order it from this one farm at the

13:05

University of Mississippi. But the

13:07

quality of their product wasn't good.

13:09

One scientist described it as a

13:11

mishmash of stems, sticks, and leaves

13:14

and claimed that it had yeast and mold growing on

13:16

it. Angela tried it in an

13:18

experiment once. We

13:21

used that substance and promised ourselves after that,

13:24

we wouldn't study cannabis anymore because it

13:26

was so awful. Participants

13:29

were vomiting. And these were regular

13:31

cannabis users. So not

13:33

only was the quality really poor, the

13:35

THC in it was a lot lower

13:37

than the products you'd find in a dispensary.

13:40

One study from 2017 found that the cannabis

13:42

grown at that farm in Mississippi contained

13:44

about 5% THC, whereas

13:47

products and dispensaries around the country could contain

13:49

about 15 to 20%. So

13:53

the government grown weed doesn't really give you a full picture

13:56

and also you might vomit. Earlier

13:58

in Biden's tenure, the DEA... more

14:00

growers than just that one Mississippi farm, which

14:02

could mean more options for research. But

14:05

the registration and transaction processes to

14:07

get research-grade cannabis are no joke.

14:10

It takes time, effort, and cash

14:12

to get cannabis products for human

14:15

experiments. Not to mention approval

14:17

from the FDA, the IRB, and sometimes

14:19

local narcotics boards. It's the way that

14:21

the federal regulations were written that

14:23

prevented us from doing all

14:26

the work that needed to be done. So

14:28

it's really legalization that's opened up the

14:30

opportunity for us to study these products

14:32

that people are using. I'm just

14:35

so surprised at how bad the government

14:37

weed is, so to call it. Yeah,

14:39

and I will say it's definitely getting

14:41

better. But the problem is,

14:43

you know, if you look at the commercialization

14:46

of cannabis, right, like I'm, I don't know

14:48

if you're gonna go to dispensaries while you're

14:50

here, but you walk in and there's hundreds

14:53

of products, right? And people are

14:55

making a lot of money designing

14:57

all kinds of different cannabis products.

14:59

There's no way the federal government

15:01

is gonna keep up with that

15:03

kind of commercialization. And so

15:05

they're just so far behind this multi-million

15:08

dollar industry that I just, I don't

15:10

see them catching up. And so I

15:12

feel like the way forward really is

15:14

to study the products that exist on

15:16

the legal market that people can, you

15:19

know, we can go to any dispensary

15:21

in town and have our pick of.

15:23

Those are the things we need to

15:25

be studying, not the things that, the

15:27

limited range of things now that are

15:30

being grown by the government. So

15:32

this brings us back to the question, will

15:35

the reclassification of cannabis from a Schedule 1

15:37

drug to a Schedule 3 change anything

15:39

for researchers like Angela? She says no.

15:42

I wish I could

15:45

say I'm optimistic about

15:47

legislation because if it's on the schedule

15:49

we have to keep doing what we're doing. So

15:52

unless it's completely taken off, it won't

15:54

change for us. What I hope happens

15:56

is that it's regulated in much the

15:58

same way that alcohol halls regulated. So

16:02

it's interesting because we've we and

16:04

lots of other labs around the

16:06

country have done work where

16:08

we bring people in we give them you

16:10

know a measured dose of alcohol and we

16:12

look at how it impacts the brain and

16:14

and performance on tasks and social behavior and

16:17

things like that. And so

16:19

I would love it if cannabis

16:21

regulations allowed us to do that

16:23

same kind of research with cannabis products.

16:27

But this reclassification might make it easier for

16:29

scientists to study the weed grown from that

16:31

list of the DEA's approved growers. But

16:34

one of the biggest changes might actually

16:36

come from the FDA. So you'll remember

16:38

that when a drug is classified as

16:40

Schedule 1 there are no accepted medical

16:42

uses for it. So the FDA

16:44

hasn't made any standards for its production. But

16:47

if it becomes Schedule 3 that

16:49

acknowledges that there can be acceptable medical

16:51

uses for that drug. So the

16:54

FDA can finally come in and say hey these are

16:57

some guidelines for how to produce medical cannabis

16:59

in a way that we say is safe

17:01

for human consumption. On

17:04

the business side of things this reclassification

17:06

is a major deal. Folks in the

17:08

industry will be able to access normal

17:11

banking and credit and it'll ease up

17:13

on the tax burden for cannabis businesses

17:15

or canna businesses which could

17:18

make it ultimately a little more affordable

17:20

for customers. To learn more about

17:22

how federal rules affect research on

17:24

cannabis check out our reporting

17:26

at science friday.com/cannabis. Special

17:29

thanks to all the researchers we spoke with

17:31

in Colorado, Dr. Ziva Cooper and to D.

17:33

Peter Schmidt for composing the music. I'm

17:35

Emma Gomez. And I'm Rasha Uridi.

17:38

Thanks to all the folks who

17:40

helped make this show happen including

17:42

Eframi Santiago Flores, Diana

17:44

Plaster, John Dankoski,

17:46

Robin Kasmer. On tomorrow's

17:49

episode we check in on the state

17:51

of high-speed railroads. Join us.