0:00

Hi, I'm Wendy Zuckerman, and you're listening to

0:02

Science Versus. Today

0:06

on the show, the abortion pill. It's

0:13

the most common way to get an abortion in the

0:15

US these days. And there

0:17

is a huge spotlight on these pills right

0:19

now. Now

0:21

to the abortion pill battle. The Justice Department

0:24

is... We've got some breaking news now here

0:26

in the US. We saw the Louisiana House

0:28

passing a bill that could make that state

0:30

the first in the country to criminalise abortion

0:32

pills. And

0:34

that spotlight is about to get even

0:36

brighter. Because soon the Supreme Court will

0:38

decide if the FDA has made these

0:41

pills too easy to access. Supreme

0:43

Court decided the future of the abortion pill.

0:45

This is now a case about how easy is

0:47

it going to be to get that pill. You

0:50

see, now in some US states, you

0:52

can have abortion pills sent in the

0:54

mail without ever seeing a doctor in

0:56

person. And some say that

0:58

this is bananas and totally dangerous. How

1:01

is it safe when one in 25

1:03

women will have to visit the ER?

1:06

Others say that all that talk, it's

1:08

just politics. But amidst all

1:10

of this attention on the abortion pill,

1:13

what's kind of wild here is

1:15

just how little some people know

1:17

about the basics of

1:20

these pills. A recent

1:22

review paper found that even many primary

1:24

care doctors don't know how well they

1:26

work or their side effects. And

1:29

this can leave the folks who are taking

1:31

the pills stuck in the middle,

1:34

unsure of what's about to happen to

1:36

their own bodies. People

1:40

like Heather Witten. She's

1:42

a documentary photographer who lives with her

1:44

husband, four kids, and according

1:46

to her website, too many

1:48

pets. Heather, what

1:51

is too many pets? Too

1:54

many pets is two dogs,

1:56

two cats, three

1:58

rabbits. Two

2:00

hamsters. The hamsters. Oh,

2:03

my. We're still going. And

2:05

two foster bunnies. Oh,

2:09

it is entirely too many pets. Back

2:12

in 2019, Heather and her

2:14

husband were in a tricky

2:16

situation. I found myself unexpectedly

2:19

pregnant with our fifth child. Here

2:23

I was, like, in my 30s,

2:25

married with children, and I

2:27

didn't want this. Heather

2:29

was done having kids, and both her and

2:32

her husband wanted to put their energy into

2:34

cooking care of the children that they already

2:36

had. So Heather decided to

2:38

have an abortion. Yeah, it was

2:41

a hard moment. She went to a clinic

2:43

and was given a bunch of pills to take it home.

2:46

And Heather didn't really know what

2:48

was about to happen. Like,

2:50

in TV shows, you see people go to the

2:52

clinic and have, you know, go

2:54

behind the double doors, and you don't know

2:56

what happens back there. And

2:58

I felt like it was the

3:01

same with medical abortion. I had no idea what

3:03

it was going to feel like or look like.

3:05

I just wasn't prepared for the intensity

3:07

of it all, honestly. I think I

3:10

was just so overwhelmed. I

3:12

very much came home, and we made my

3:14

husband's vasectomy appointment the next day. Yeah.

3:18

I was like, I will never do

3:20

that again. Yeah, yeah. And Heather,

3:23

all of this mystery around the abortion

3:25

pill, it was frustrating.

3:27

Why is it shrouded in this

3:29

secrecy and taboo and shame and

3:31

fear? Why can't we bring it

3:33

out front and center and shine some light on it?

3:37

So let's shine some light

3:39

on the abortion pill. Hundreds

3:41

of thousands of people get abortions in the US

3:43

every year. So let's take the

3:45

secrecy and the politics out of this. Today,

3:49

we're going to walk you through exactly what

3:51

happens when you take these abortion pills. And

3:54

heads out, we are going to get these pills.

3:57

And we'll also talk about how safe they are. Your

4:00

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on a cell. Be a boss and tell.

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Tell. Me about the cop this

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ah loud. so it's a

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crusade cactus. It looks more

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like a penis. Is

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our with him? Medical Director at

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Sexual Health Victoria in a cell

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Yeah what says the poem about

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the caught this? have a nice

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to the I trace I came

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first and then it was named

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to. The copter such as that.

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Besides. A particular

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cops are reported though. Yes.

6:00

How many people do you think in your

6:02

career you've given it to? I'd say it'd

6:04

be around about 100. Yeah. Sarah

6:07

doesn't just prescribe these pills. She

6:09

also does a lot of education around how they

6:11

work. And so I asked

6:13

her to walk me through the cold hard

6:16

facts about the abortion pill, even

6:18

though, you know, it's pretty

6:20

soft and warm where we're going. And

6:24

that's because our first question is simply, how

6:26

exactly do these pills work? And

6:29

to answer that, we need to

6:32

head to the uterus. Okay.

6:34

So each month, the lining

6:36

inside the uterus changes a

6:38

lot. At the start of your cycle, like just

6:40

after you get your period, it's pretty thin. But

6:43

then your body will pump out hormones,

6:45

which head to the uterus. And that

6:47

helps the lining, what we call ripen.

6:49

What do you mean by ripen? I

6:52

know there's no real good term for

6:54

that. I am imagining like my uterus

6:56

as a peach at this point. I

6:58

know. I mean, you can also

7:00

say stabilize or sicken. I'm going

7:02

to go with sicken. So the

7:04

lining of your uterus is getting thicker

7:07

and thicker. And it's basically building

7:09

this really cozy place so that

7:11

just in case a sperm comes

7:14

along, your uterus is going to be

7:16

prepared to make a baby. So what

7:18

it's saying is, hey, lining, stay there, get

7:20

ready, something might happen. If

7:22

you think of it as icing on

7:24

the cake, but it's a

7:27

nutrient rich, blood filled, oxygen rich icing.

7:29

The best kind of icing. The best

7:31

kind. The best kind. If

7:35

nothing happens, no sperm, no

7:37

fertilization, then levels

7:39

of a hormone called progesterone

7:42

will naturally drop. And

7:44

that lining, that icing on the

7:46

cake, it's going to shed.

7:48

It'll fall down your vagina, along with

7:50

blood, blood vessels and mucus. And

7:53

that is what period.

8:00

Hawker gets a little trigger happy. And.

8:02

You get pregnant. Progesterone will

8:04

keep getting pumped gas and

8:06

the icing in. Your. Uterus is

8:08

gonna get better. And

8:10

better. Now. If.

8:13

You'd rather that didn't happen.

8:16

While. And. To the abortion

8:18

pill. This is also called

8:20

and medication Abortion. In the

8:22

Us it's a proved to be used

8:24

for pregnancy that's after ten weeks along

8:26

and normally you'd be given to different

8:28

kinds of pills. That

8:30

you'll take the coldness of the fan

8:32

it is that the Supreme Court is

8:34

looking at this thread. Basically told

8:37

that nutrient declining stops

8:39

sorry bro anymore right?

8:41

Support is pregnancies and say stop

8:43

It Does this by blocking projector

8:46

and and I mean the

8:48

uterus is basically like ah, Represents

8:51

Duran I guess know

8:54

pregnancy. Time to say

8:56

goodbye to that. Nutrient weights

8:58

lining it's. Time to let it

9:00

said away And that's a lot more like

9:02

what happens if you don't get pregnant at

9:04

so interesting that it is that of at

9:06

on some level mimicking the process of just.

9:08

Having a regular period. Progesterone drops. and

9:10

your buddies like me, don't you don't

9:12

need this. Yeah, it is, and that's why

9:15

you blade. Some people

9:17

might start bleeding as soon as they

9:19

take pill number one with a brief

9:21

time. For most of us the bleeding

9:23

stopped after pill number two which will

9:25

take a day or to light up

9:27

African. Pow is called Misoprostol and

9:29

it's filled with a chemical that

9:31

heads for the muscles that live

9:33

around your uterus and it makes

9:36

them squeeze the would basically and

9:38

what's in the Gts. Which might

9:40

sound kinda weird thought Mother Process

9:42

is that a synthetic version of

9:44

this chemical that we naturally make

9:46

when we have our periods. Know.

9:49

This whole process of setting these two

9:52

different kinds of pals, It works. Wow.

9:54

About ninety seven to ninety eight percent

9:56

of the time the boss and will

9:58

be. Complaints. And

10:00

now, let's go back to

10:02

Heather, our mother of two dogs, two

10:05

cats, two hamsters, five rabbits and four

10:07

children to get a

10:09

better idea of what all this can

10:11

feel like. So

10:13

Heather took the first pill while she was still

10:15

at the clinic and she didn't feel anything from

10:17

it. And then a couple of

10:20

days later, she took the Miser Prostil. By

10:23

now, she was nine weeks along. Her

10:25

husband booked a hotel room for her that night

10:28

away from the hamsters and children so

10:31

that she could have her abortion in relative pace.

10:34

And Heather and I talked about it. So you,

10:37

you burnt a candle, right, in the room? Yes.

10:40

Yeah. Don't tell the hotel. All

10:43

right. And

10:47

you put the Miser Prostil in your mouth

10:49

and then when, was that

10:51

a weird feeling? It's four pills, right? It's

10:53

a lot of pills. Yeah.

10:56

It's gritty and nasty. I mean, it's not

10:58

totally nasty. I just remember being chalky and

11:00

I couldn't wait to be able to just

11:03

swallow it and rinse my mouth out. Within

11:05

the hour, Heather could feel something.

11:07

It just started feeling like that

11:10

ache of beginning your period. So

11:13

I was just like aware of my uterus

11:16

and like I had some back pain, some

11:18

pain in my thighs, which is all normal

11:20

for me when I start my period. So

11:23

I was still chatty and happy. But

11:26

then the cramps got worse and Heather

11:28

went into the bathroom. She wanted to have a

11:30

warm bath. And Heather

11:32

was in the hotel with a friend of

11:34

hers, Sarah, who's also an abortion doer, which

11:37

means she helps people through abortions. So

11:40

she's a very handy person to have around. I

11:43

think I got in the tub pretty

11:45

quickly and Sarah had like lit candles

11:47

all around me and was

11:50

like pouring cups of water on my back for

11:53

me and stuff like that. It was really beautiful.

11:55

The pain got worse and worse, though. Heather

11:58

said it was extremely. painful for

12:00

about five hours. Having

12:03

gone through childbirth before, she

12:05

said it was actually pretty similar to

12:07

being in labor. Not like full blown

12:10

labor, but you don't get the

12:13

lull of contractions either. It was

12:15

just one big contraction the whole

12:17

time. It didn't let up. Oh.

12:20

So it wasn't even like the wave of breaks.

12:23

And Sarah was sleeping for part of it. And

12:25

I wanted to just throw shit at her. Like,

12:29

wake up, I'm in pain. But

12:32

there was nothing she could do, you know? Like

12:34

I just had to ride it out. Because

12:38

I also had horrific diarrhea and

12:41

vomiting. Oh man. Yeah. So

12:44

I would momentarily have to get out of the tub to throw

12:46

up or use the bathroom. And

12:48

I was livid. I just got angry that

12:50

I was in the position that I was

12:52

in. I was mad at my husband. And

12:55

like, I was just a grumpy,

12:58

pissed off woman in

13:00

a bathtub. Definitely 50%

13:02

of the people who take abortion

13:04

pills will describe the pain as

13:07

moderately or extremely painful.

13:10

Taking ibuprofen or maybe codeine

13:12

might help. And

13:15

yeah, it's also pretty common to get

13:17

nausea and maybe vomit after taking metroprofen.

13:20

Now for the some 40% of women

13:23

who are getting abortions and who have

13:25

never given birth before, Sarah says, expect

13:28

this to be worse than your period. So

13:31

on the upside, if you don't get painful periods,

13:33

it might not be that bad. And

13:36

in one study of hundreds of women,

13:38

around one in 10 said they felt

13:40

no pain. So

13:42

now let's talk about the bleeding

13:44

and what to expect there. Because

13:47

when it comes to how much blood is going to come

13:49

out of you, Dr. Sarah Whitman

13:51

says that that's worse than

13:54

your period guideline. It

13:56

applies here as well. I think it's really important

13:58

to say it is more than a period. And I

14:00

think if you don't know that it's going to be heavier than a

14:02

period, that is a shock because

14:04

we're used to sort of our periods. You're

14:06

bleeding like this because it's not

14:08

just your period, right? That lining

14:10

of the uterus has now gotten

14:12

thicker plus there's the embryo and

14:14

placenta. And the further that you're

14:17

along, the more that you'll bleed. The

14:20

heavy bleeding should let up within 24 hours. And

14:23

after that, the bleeding should be

14:25

more like a regular period. So

14:28

that's what's typical. But Heather,

14:30

that's basically how it was. But

14:32

sometimes things can go wrong and people

14:35

can bleed a lot and it can

14:37

be scary. They end up in the

14:39

hospital. And this is

14:41

what folks who want to restrict access to

14:43

these pills focus on. Stuff

14:45

like hemorrhaging or where these

14:47

large blood clots can fall out of you.

14:51

Here's Sarah. If you're passing

14:53

grape-sized, blueberry-sized, that's probably normal.

14:56

But if you go up to a

14:59

lemon-sized, that is abnormal. A lemon-sized clot.

15:01

Yeah. And we do use the word

15:03

lemon. I mean, that would be so scary. That's

15:05

so big. Yeah, it is big and

15:07

you would really want to be seeking help.

15:10

So how often does that happen? How

15:13

many of us are having lemon-sized blood clots

15:15

and gushing so much blood that we need

15:17

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17:21

Welcome back. Today I'm a show the

17:23

abortion pill. We just walked you through how it

17:25

works. And now we wanna know what

17:27

happens. Something's go wrong.

17:30

So last year, a toxic judge made

17:32

this really important ruling. That basically said

17:34

that the abortion pill was dangerous. And

17:36

he implied that lots of women were

17:39

hemorrhaging as a result of taking it

17:41

and heading to emergency rooms. This

17:44

case is now being heard by the

17:46

Supreme Court and whatever they say could

17:48

have implications throughout the US. Like

17:50

I said, it's important. And

17:53

the thing is, in that judge's

17:55

decision to use scientific studies, he's

17:58

added this paper from... And

18:01

so senior producer Meryl Horn and I called

18:04

up the guy who led that study. I've been

18:06

working with Mifepristone for actually 40

18:08

years. So quite unbelievable. Oh wow.

18:11

I didn't even know it existed for that long. Yeah, me

18:14

and Mifepristone go way back. This is

18:16

Asari Haikinhimo, a professor

18:18

of obstetrics and gynecology at the University

18:20

of Helsinki in Finland. And

18:22

so then this study started in the year 2000

18:25

when Mifepristone was first approved in

18:28

Finland, around the same time as the US.

18:32

And researchers like Asari weren't exactly sure

18:34

how this would go. Because

18:36

yes, this pill had been tested in clinical

18:38

trials, but now you'd have all

18:41

these women in Finland taking it. And

18:43

so he wanted to know. Are there

18:45

adverse events? What kinds of adverse events?

18:48

Are there serious complications? Serious

18:50

complications which you may not see if you

18:52

do a study with 100 patients. So

18:56

in this paper we had some 42,000 women. Yeah,

19:01

42,000 women. It

19:04

was basically every woman in Finland who got

19:06

an abortion in the early to mid 2000s. And

19:10

Asari got that information because in Finland

19:12

all patients getting an abortion have their

19:15

data entered into a registry. And

19:18

so once Asari got access to that

19:20

registry, he could look and

19:22

see. How many of them came back

19:24

to the hospital with questions or concerns?

19:28

And he saw that quite a lot of women

19:30

did come back to the hospital. And

19:32

in fact, there was one diagnosis that they were

19:34

given over and over again.

19:39

Many people had the diagnosis of

19:41

hemorrhage. Hemorrhage. In

19:43

fact, almost 16% of

19:46

the women in Asari's study were

19:48

diagnosed as having a hemorrhage. That's

19:51

roughly one in six. That

19:54

sounds scary. But just

19:56

as Jafar said in a Latin, things aren't

19:59

always that bad. was a home. Because

20:02

Asghari said that in his study

20:05

hemorrhaging just meant someone

20:08

who was having any kind of

20:10

bleeding and was concerned about

20:12

it. Obviously I see

20:14

that the term hemorrhage seems certainly

20:16

a worrisome term but that's a

20:19

diagnostic code. To anyone who came

20:21

in with any kind of bleeding

20:23

that was like boom you're hemorrhaging.

20:26

Exactly. Because that's the code. We only

20:28

have one code for bleeding and it's

20:30

hemorrhaging. Exactly. That's where the term came

20:33

from. So it's not like someone's

20:35

gushing blood. No, no, no, no. Could have just

20:37

been that they had some blood and they were

20:39

really worried until they went to get checked out.

20:41

Yes. Asghari told us that

20:43

a lot of women that were coming

20:46

to the hospital were actually totally fine.

20:48

Their bleeding was normal given that they'd

20:50

just taken the abortion pill. And

20:53

so Asghari's like, don't

20:55

use my study to suggest that tons

20:58

of women who use the abortion pill

21:00

are in danger and bleeding out. Well

21:03

I think it's a misuse of scientific

21:05

data if you go cherry picking and

21:07

then you take one

21:09

sentence from here and another sentence from

21:12

there and it's not serious work. You

21:14

don't think they're being good researchers? Well I

21:16

don't know about them as researchers

21:19

but I think that's pure cherry

21:21

picking to advance

21:23

a political agenda. Asghari

21:27

also told us that if

21:30

you want to be a good researcher, don't

21:33

use his paper which was tracking

21:35

abortions that happened 20 years

21:37

ago because doctors have learned

21:39

a thing or two

21:42

in that term. To find out how

21:44

many of us these days will lose

21:46

dangerous amounts of blood after taking the

21:48

abortion pills, we're going to

21:51

need a different med. I love, love,

21:53

love doing research. Oh, a bad one.

21:56

My name is Dr. Ushma Upadhyay. a

22:00

professor and public health scientist at the University

22:02

of California San Francisco. This

22:05

year, she published a study of more than 6,000

22:08

people who took the abortion pills,

22:10

and she carefully tracked the big

22:12

things that went wrong. We

22:14

looked at blood transfusions,

22:17

major surgeries, major infections.

22:21

It's worth saying that in Ushma's

22:23

study, these people actually got their

22:25

abortion pills in the mail. So

22:27

before taking the pills, they

22:30

never actually saw a doctor in

22:32

person. Instead, they either had

22:34

a video chat with a doctor or did

22:37

what was called the asynchronous model,

22:39

which means that the entire communication

22:42

process is over tech. Wow. I

22:44

don't know what emojis they would

22:46

say. They

22:48

mentioned so many of the emojis.

22:50

Love hearts, strung up. Exactly.

22:54

And that kind of model of care where you

22:57

don't see a doctor in person. Remember, this is

22:59

exactly the kind of thing that the Supreme Court

23:01

is questioning right now. The

23:05

foolishness. Thousands and thousands

23:07

of patients started doing this.

23:10

She was excited. Yes. Yes.

23:14

I mean, it's incredible how, you

23:16

know, that there were so many patients

23:18

that the data were coming in. And

23:21

so what did you find? How many

23:23

of them had serious side effects after

23:25

taking these pills? A

23:28

quarter of 1% of patients experienced a

23:30

serious adverse event. Okay, wait, a quarter

23:33

of 1%. So 0.25%. Two to three

23:35

people out of 1000. Yeah.

23:40

So the risk of something like needing

23:42

a blood transfusion or getting an infection

23:46

is super small. Out

23:48

of 1000 people, it'll

23:50

happen to maybe three

23:52

of us. And by

23:54

the way, when we look at other research, we

23:56

can see that that risk is pretty much the

23:59

same whether Paxton but a

24:01

doctor or you saw them in person and.

24:03

Maybe they even gave you an ultrasound? It

24:06

actually doesn't matter. And

24:08

then. There. Was something else that a smith

24:11

could sit in the day down And it's actually

24:13

really important. Is the

24:15

every now and then people will going to

24:17

be a are? sometimes? isn't that they will

24:19

bleeding too much. But. They

24:21

were actually totally fine. And

24:23

sent home pretty quickly. Now.

24:26

The truth is. It can be tricky

24:28

at times to. Know what's normal

24:30

bleeding and what's not? Thera.

24:33

Guidelines and they say that

24:35

if you are selling to

24:37

maxi pads in all his

24:39

off your passing lemon sized

24:41

blood clots like we talked

24:43

about two months. Of

24:45

isn't Ursula. Group

24:48

wouldn't likely is to maxi pads worth

24:50

of blood. I was a summer at

24:52

a meeting yesterday and some oh that's

24:54

where does the said and season come

24:57

from and like who really knows how

24:59

much a pad actually how much blood

25:01

is that and like what does that

25:03

mean and they to think that we

25:05

haven't researched it and now it's just

25:07

something them that has been written into

25:10

lotsa guidelines with no se te so

25:12

interesting if is able to say it

25:14

to maxi pads and I was i

25:16

pad sections it. As an aside,

25:18

a million different max believe that

25:21

isn't like this at all. I

25:23

was out with wings. With that,

25:25

we've played some. Respects

25:28

the better. We were best exactly and

25:30

it's was a have a meeting of

25:32

medication abortion experts and we were all

25:34

talking about this. Step.

25:37

The spite said maxi pad unit

25:39

of measurement nothing as precise as

25:41

we might want it to bay.

25:44

Is our with then over in Australia? Tell

25:46

that to have high sense and she says

25:48

it is helpful. Like Sarah.

25:50

Told me that she actually had a

25:52

pay sent to needed a blood transfusion

25:54

and she told them can and beforehand

25:56

if you are feeling who Maxi pads

25:59

in two hours. He.

26:01

Hates me We were having that leading you

26:04

to advance so we went up to the

26:06

hospital and they stay that the chat that

26:08

suggests you bleeding in a bit more than

26:10

lead life in your red blood cells in

26:12

it has dropped. We gonna give you a

26:14

transfusion or not. What helps hold the bleeding,

26:16

slow down and help the person feel bad

26:18

and to argue about whether you are right

26:20

on so that they were if I were

26:23

right arm from said at the time I

26:25

found the bleeding and the Pines voice. Scary.

26:28

For them as in all this is more than

26:30

we expected. But they knew what they were doing

26:32

and said that the two things. I sort of

26:34

said his say with saying all this is more

26:36

than we expected. This is heavy but we knew

26:39

what to do. Pursued said to us go the

26:41

hospital. It's okay to go the hospital. That's what

26:43

we need to do. For.

26:45

Also told us that a lot of have a

26:47

sense of worried about whether the boss and hell

26:49

is going to assess I tell it he later

26:51

on in life and then that he the have

26:54

a baby and the good news is that it

26:56

doesn't. Have

26:58

that says that. Ah, some of physical risks

27:00

to your body when it comes to taking

27:02

me a boss And tell. But

27:05

our own a gun about

27:07

electrical risks of having an

27:09

abortion because still laugh and.

27:11

Definitely come up in that Texas

27:13

courthouse. Their bosoms can be

27:15

crappy. For your mental health impacts.

27:18

The judge wrote, quite normal

27:20

women also experience. In palm

27:22

psychological trauma and post traumatic

27:24

stress from excessive bleeding and

27:26

from school the Ramones of

27:29

their aborted children. So is

27:31

that true? What?

27:34

Remember that this tell is generally used

27:37

in early pregnancies and the U S

27:39

about the tenement. City. Umbrella

27:41

is pretty small. Maybe.

27:43

The size of a small

27:45

strawberries. And. We don't have

27:47

a lot of resets specifically on how. People.

27:50

Feel well know if they say

27:52

yes. But. A little

27:54

ren fest we have size that yes

27:56

the some people. Are com

27:58

the difficult like. Month. That

28:00

he fell Twenty years. It. I found that

28:02

out of almost sixty women whose

28:05

sole or. To as saw the

28:07

contents of the pregnancy. Just.

28:09

Over half said they had strong. Negative

28:11

feelings about it. like they were

28:14

shocked, sad, or scared. Some people

28:16

felt same and gals. But.

28:18

One in five women. I the

28:21

felt neutral curious. Or. Even

28:23

positives: I joked about what this

28:25

is like for have a. When she

28:27

had her abortion, likely mentioned she

28:30

was nine weeks along. And

28:33

take care while you're listening to this because.

28:35

For the next few minutes he gonna get

28:37

details. About.

28:40

To the Speed has some sarah during

28:42

her boyfriend. Did. You see the

28:44

that. But. Embryos,

28:47

Come out of the end you can is

28:49

what have you feel comfortable talking about. That.

28:53

So. I was in the bathtub

28:56

and I remember sitting cross legged

28:58

in the tub, sitting up talking

29:00

with Sarah and I remember feeling.

29:03

Like. A strong the earth contract sense

29:05

and that I was like i feel

29:07

like there might be something between my

29:09

legs and the i pulled out. The

29:13

little embryo and and I probably

29:15

wouldn't have even notice as the

29:17

embryo was what it was because

29:19

it just was like of a

29:21

blood clot. It's

29:23

just so different than a blood clot like it.

29:27

This is really gross, but I don't know a better

29:29

way of explaining it and are pretty face of by

29:31

saying that I'm a mother of four, but it. Feels

29:33

like a tasty burger. May

29:37

need. It still has like some substance

29:39

to it you know because it's so

29:41

and it was kind of all cause

29:43

I didn't know what it was. a

29:46

success most a tiny bits and so

29:48

I handed it off to sarah and

29:50

see kind of rearranged it so that

29:52

I could see the different parts and

29:55

I'm see like where I mean I

29:57

don't know how much you want me

29:59

to. Friday he sees no idea that

30:01

the telephone get her so you could see

30:04

like were like a little bit of an

30:06

I was forming you could see a little

30:08

bit of the him the local court before

30:10

right before his i am I had passed

30:13

felt that I passed when i thought was

30:15

a large clot. But

30:17

Sarah put on gloves and kind of went

30:19

into the toilet to look in. A was

30:21

the placenta like that early placenta? what is

30:23

it look like said. Early presenter

30:26

on it looks like.

30:28

A little pink spines

30:30

like feathery spans white.

30:34

Circle you know, like it sits in

30:36

the palm of your hands. Light.

30:39

Light. Pink. Yeah, it

30:42

doesn't look like what a placenta for a

30:44

full term pregnancy looks like at all and

30:46

added itself saying that. Ah,

30:50

I. Don't remember anything but.

30:53

Curiosity fight. I was very curious

30:55

to see it and ah I'm

30:58

it. felt very cool see be

31:00

able to see if you know

31:03

like I didn't feel attached to

31:05

it in any way. I'm. I

31:08

did it feel like that's

31:10

my baby or sad in

31:12

any way that I can

31:14

remember. After.

31:16

Her boss and have actually

31:18

trained to be an abortion.

31:20

Bill has south See also

31:22

started of photography projects documenting.

31:24

Other people going through medication

31:27

abortion. And. Sell off

31:29

heaven now having seen other

31:31

people. they treat us. Out

31:34

about respond to some youngblood. I

31:36

have seen people that have just

31:39

not wanted to see it whatsoever

31:41

and or had seen A and

31:43

has had strong reactions to it

31:45

or one person comes to mind.

31:47

I'm hurt embryo sell out of

31:49

her as she was walking across

31:51

a yoga mat in her bedroom

31:54

and so it was. It's very

31:56

dramatic moment where she was just

31:58

walking in them the on her

32:00

her waters broke. you know like

32:02

there is like a trickle of

32:04

water in blood and then this

32:06

embryo fell from her and on.

32:10

Seeds. Up to her knees and

32:12

beg for forgiveness sake. Right said

32:14

and there's see Just kept saying

32:16

i'm sorry I'm sorry Forgive me

32:18

for gives me and I don't

32:20

know who she was talking to.

32:22

Bear on C Really like kind

32:24

of pride and kind of with

32:26

tears in a holding the embryo

32:28

in our hands and them you

32:31

know C C quickly kind of

32:33

pulled herself together and stood up

32:35

and took a shower and got

32:37

dressed in that was really powerful

32:39

to see and. Such a stark

32:41

contrast from my experience. But we're

32:43

not a monolith, you know, like

32:46

so many people had different experiences

32:48

and each one and salad. Like

32:56

we mentioned, there's not a lot of

32:58

research. On how people specifically feel

33:00

when they see be embryos. But

33:03

what we do have is quite a lot

33:05

of recess. For. More drawn really?

33:08

On. Whether abortions affects your mental

33:10

health and couldn't Medication. Abortion.

33:13

On. His weapons, The

33:16

couples that he is that compare notes

33:18

and Japan and. Before people got

33:20

pregnant to. Then after their

33:22

abortion find that on Apple's abortions

33:25

do not affect the chance of

33:27

you getting depression or feeling suicidal

33:29

and back when are smart looks

33:32

at the rate that she says

33:34

that on average and the long

33:36

run abortion has no impact on

33:39

mental health is really. Just

33:42

the arab session wins. abortion and

33:44

that trauma it's gonna cause. But

33:46

it's really not a mental health

33:48

story. No,

33:50

not at all. In

33:53

terms of work, grants of the

33:55

data show that the vast majority

33:57

of people you know now. Ninety

34:00

five percent Feel confident about

34:03

their decision. Film now with

34:05

them about. Their. Abortion decision.

34:08

For me personally have

34:10

a system positive see

34:12

abortion. I've never looked back

34:15

on a school. I won't say never.

34:17

One time I look spot on it

34:19

and I was kind of like. Have

34:22

turned out a little difference that I thought

34:24

it would after the aforesaid. Maybe I should

34:27

have had that baby. but then I thought

34:29

about another. know. I love my life, like

34:31

what I'm doing now and so thankful I'm

34:33

not spending the next. Five years like

34:35

attached to a child. I

34:39

am so glad it's not what I'm doing.

34:46

And. For finally, despite all of

34:48

them, See. Compounds around

34:50

abortion pals. Studies.

34:53

Have found that many women prefer that

34:55

he's pills to be other option that's

34:57

at which is surgical abortions as where

34:59

you often have to go into hospital

35:01

and a.that will put you under a

35:03

general anesthetic. Com

35:05

women to the the boss and Paul's because

35:07

of the costs and the u they tend

35:10

to be cheaper are also sort of all

35:12

time. it's more profit is at school in

35:14

the comfort of your own home and that

35:16

to avoid surgery. One

35:19

study found that almost ninety percent

35:21

of women who got a medication

35:23

abortion. Would. Recommend it to

35:26

have friends say you know

35:28

with Yelp reviews like that

35:30

of my right. So.

35:33

Bottom. Line. While. Peggy

35:35

Me Abortion pill is not like a

35:37

day at Disneyland. For. Nasa

35:40

are scary I can he man

35:42

who probably helped more than a

35:44

thousand patients. Through medication, abortions,

35:47

says. That she just doesn't see the

35:49

evidence that the abortion pill. Is

35:51

causing psychological or. Any

35:53

other harm to loads of curveball.

35:56

Seriously. Medication. Abortions

35:58

using it for the. Ninety percent

36:00

of all abortions in the in the

36:02

Nordic countries at obviously. If if we

36:05

had any a thought that we would

36:07

be putting our young women into harm's

36:09

way by using by using medication abortion

36:11

whoop we'd certainly would be doing. A

36:15

fantastic. Hey

36:18

well I said you producer. It's

36:20

as fast as well and high

36:22

for how many citizens are in

36:24

this week's episode. I don't know

36:27

yourself. Out.

36:30

There are many that is

36:32

a. A hundred and

36:34

eight Saturday. so of underneath

36:37

it isn't. People wanna read

36:39

more about the science of.

36:42

Medication Abortions west as they

36:44

go matter of seconds or

36:46

so notes and then follow

36:48

the links to the transcripts.

36:50

Yes and today on Instagram

36:52

we have a soda is

36:54

from had a women's Projects

36:56

documenting Medication Abortions said is

36:58

a site as the people

37:00

as they're going through the

37:02

medication. Abortions The photos of

37:04

really, really powerful I'm so

37:06

please check it out His

37:08

head see science underscore the

37:10

ass. That projects that I is

37:12

called the Abortion Contact and have us

37:15

has actually moved on. She's not working

37:17

on it anymore says still a professional

37:19

photographer. Other yes and also in this

37:21

episode I'm We did talk about some

37:23

Hannah heavy stuff at times so it's

37:25

it's It's making you feel a certain

37:27

way and you wanna talk to someone

37:29

like gonna put a link to some

37:31

resources to see my senate. Or

37:33

at the edges of unsolicited add back there.

37:45

Is to eat anything

37:47

in Italian. Although on

37:49

Monday put an end to the other

37:51

to do to help from right. Through

37:54

my and Missile Bombs were edited

37:56

Fab Lab thrive on second down Calling

37:58

on Founded on Bob. It needed

38:00

written by Bobby Board and among us

38:02

and while he been he had Aca

38:05

and people in it and you all

38:07

of the researchers that we had to

38:09

finish episodes including Succeed Tiffany, Green, Safety

38:11

Net, Palins, Progressive Jenny Within The Daniel

38:13

are and stuff is Everly when it

38:16

costs a doctor. Abigail A can also

38:18

thanks Salon Silverman Visit them in family

38:20

as as the full of our them

38:22

prices is what about Studio of Brooklinen

38:24

a scintilla of hooked on thought about

38:26

although although eat the whole cloth and

38:29

if you like. To say he traded

38:31

in in fall by the being if

38:33

you are listening on spotify that follow

38:35

us and the bow icon for the

38:38

you'll get notifications. My new of the

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Feds come on on Wendy other men.