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I'm. Huge a vote or come to search engine. Each

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world no question to bag and question too small. This.

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Week. How do you survive

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Fame We ask? a person who

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was the most famous teenager in

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America: Molly Ringwald. After. Some ads.

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off your first purchase. And

1:14

can I can? I turn up

1:16

the volume on mine. Yeah cause I

1:19

don't really hear myself a message when you

1:21

are. Thank

1:23

you! This. Sizzling.

1:26

Yeah. I've heard better. Yeah, now that's

1:28

good. That's good right there. Okay, cool. Okay,

1:32

I'm a review. introduction of a while

1:34

can get turned down a little bit.

1:37

For. Breakfast I had. I.

1:40

Went to Whole Foods and I got

1:42

a whole box of cheese sticks. Oh.

1:44

The. Like Crockery one. I love. Those I

1:46

really are the ones that are like kind of. Twisted?

1:49

Yeah yeah, that's versatile entire box.

1:52

Oh yeah, there's America. Yeah, okay.

1:56

I'm. The my least favorite part.

1:58

Is. is a weird like talk about someone while they're in

2:01

a room, but that's okay. Molly Ringwald is an American

2:03

actor, a writer as well, but

2:05

she rose to fame in the 1980s playing a teenager in

2:07

a series of very popular movies, Sixteen Candles,

2:09

Breakfast Club, Pretty in Pink. She's

2:12

a grown-up now and still a beloved actor. She's in

2:14

the big Dahmer series on Netflix last year, which gave

2:16

me nightmares. One

2:18

feature of fame is that it turns

2:20

real living human beings into metaphors for

2:22

something else in everyone's imagination. Maybe

2:25

in real life you really are that thing, maybe you're

2:27

not, but you become, for strangers who haven't met you,

2:29

a kind of living metaphor. Molly

2:32

Ringwald in the 1980s was maybe

2:34

a metaphor for the American teenager,

2:36

like the person that a lot of people

2:38

pictured when they thought about what a teenager

2:40

was in the 1980s or a teenage crush.

2:44

What would that do to a person? We've been

2:46

friends for a long time. We've never talked about this. I

2:49

have always been in awe of just how well-adjusted Molly

2:51

is, not well-adjusted for a

2:53

famous person, well-adjusted for a human

2:55

being. I've had friends who've had varying degrees

2:58

of success on the internet, which has

3:00

meant that I've watched people lose themselves to even just

3:02

micro amounts of fame. I've watched

3:04

people's egos expand and collapse over doses of

3:06

fame much less strong than what was being

3:08

manufactured in Hollywood in the 1980s. And

3:11

the more I've seen this, the more I've wondered

3:13

about Molly, who remains a paragon of normalness.

3:16

So much so that I feel a little bit weird talking

3:18

to my friend about her other life, about being famous, but

3:21

I've been thinking about this stuff lately and I wanted to

3:24

know how she got to a place where her brain seems

3:26

to work very well. That's my

3:28

introduction. That's a good introduction. I'm

3:31

here like how would you introduce yourself?

3:34

Hi PJ. Hi. How

3:36

would I introduce myself? I think it

3:39

depends on who I'm talking to. I

3:41

usually just say I'm Molly

3:43

or I'll say I'm Matilda's mom or

3:45

Adele and Roman's mom. Usually I'm just

3:48

Molly or I'll say I'm Molly Ringwald.

3:50

I'll use my whole name and then

3:52

people will be like, yeah, I know.

3:55

Right. I know who you are. Or

3:57

they don't because not everyone knows who I am. The

4:00

for would even make such as you

4:02

questions to check I promise. The

4:05

question what as you by the end of

4:07

this interview is how do you survive? Same

4:09

do you. Feel. You have

4:11

survived ssssss. Yeah, I think

4:14

amount of the word snell I mean now I've.

4:16

Been. Famous Much longer

4:18

than I haven't been famous, so

4:20

I don't really even. Remember a

4:22

time when I wasn't the and the public

4:25

eye? What? Was your first entry

4:27

point into? Even like acting like what was

4:29

the first time in your life you're in

4:31

front camera. Ah, The first time

4:33

I was in front of a camera. I

4:35

mean I think I was like. In front

4:37

of a camera doing a commercial when

4:39

I was little. But I started out

4:42

doing theater so I was on the

4:44

stage first, even my first professional job

4:46

as a along musical. I did the

4:48

first West coast production of An Emphasis

4:51

in months. However,

5:34

if this is my so sir

5:36

I was sense. And

5:38

you remember what it felt like?

5:40

I loved it. I mean, I

5:43

really felt like I was sent.

5:45

born to perform and born to

5:47

entertain people. I mean, that's what I

5:49

said I wanted to do. And I was little. That's

5:51

what I told everyone that I was gonna

5:54

be a famous entertainer when you were to.

5:56

Hour from like away. Before that I was

5:58

on stage with my dad when I was

6:01

three and a half. like that's when I

6:03

started didn't was an accuracy. now. He

6:05

was a jazz musician, so the

6:07

world's youngest jazz singer is how.

6:09

I was touted for you

6:11

or. Three and a half

6:13

years old saying like jazz standards yeah

6:15

hes a says you know, have an

6:17

awareness of stage fright. Evidently.

6:20

Not. Say no,

6:22

but. You know, I was always kind of

6:24

a shy kid in considered myself an introvert

6:26

cf The only time I didn't feel. Shy

6:28

was when I was performing. Why?

6:31

I. Don't know exactly but it it had

6:34

to be like a lot of people it

6:36

it had him. The only

6:38

way I didn't feel shy as if

6:40

I was performing and like you couldn't

6:42

really see the people who is fake.

6:44

There was a light on you and

6:46

like he knew the people were there

6:48

but it was like that. That to

6:50

me is different. like if I was

6:52

asked to sing for. A couple people

6:54

in the living room. that's not really

6:56

hard to me so late wedding toast.

6:59

Difficult. Exactly an arms

7:01

dealer. Not difficult, exactly. Scared

7:03

because it's almost like you're alone.

7:05

But you're not alone when they're

7:07

assess like a light on you

7:09

says like a weird thing that

7:11

a wedding toast would keep me

7:14

up at. Night trying to prepare for that.

7:16

Or speeches. See, I have speeches

7:18

that I have to do like

7:20

by myself that gives me anxiety.

7:23

I. Really do I like to. My sisters

7:25

are married and. Both. Times they

7:27

ask me of speech and it was

7:30

like a cram for it makes a

7:32

sense like I was talking about the

7:34

present like a really really stress and

7:36

like also joined get Right but also

7:39

talking in front of faces you can

7:41

see is a very scary feeling. Yeah.

7:43

Yeah, it always said that

7:46

scary for me, but performing

7:48

is not singing a song

7:50

that somebody else wrote is

7:52

not or performing as a

7:55

character. And. I don't think this

7:57

is unique to me. I think this. is something

7:59

that actors experience.

8:01

I think there's a lot of shy actors

8:03

out there that don't feel shy and they're

8:06

able to express something

8:09

that they can't feel

8:11

like they can express in their ordinary

8:13

life and that's kind of part of the appeal.

8:16

And so when you were a kid acting, can you just

8:18

paint me a picture of what that was like? Like your

8:21

your 10 and a production of Annie on the

8:23

West Coast, how did that fit into the rest

8:25

of your life? Well that became

8:27

my life for 15 months

8:30

and when you're 10 years old 15 months

8:32

is a really long time. Yeah. So that

8:34

was just like that's what you did. I

8:37

didn't go to regular school. I went to school

8:39

with all of the Annie orphans during the day

8:41

with a really nice

8:43

teacher named Miriam who wore bell-bottoms

8:46

and then at night I performed. I was

8:48

friends with all the girls and that was

8:50

just kind of like everything was my social

8:52

life. It was my school. It was

8:55

a job because I was paid for

8:57

it and then I slept late

9:00

unlike other kids. I didn't go to

9:03

school until later because I had to

9:05

perform late. It was fun. It was

9:07

something that I really wanted to do. You

9:10

get to express big emotions that

9:12

like everyone is telling you as

9:14

a kid like behave yourself. Don't

9:16

yell, don't scream, settle down, don't

9:18

behave like that. You're just told

9:20

all of the stuff but when

9:22

you're on stage acting you just

9:24

get to like express all

9:26

of the stuff that's in there in

9:28

a really I guess pretty healthy way.

9:30

Yeah and were

9:33

you like you were describing how for you

9:36

at that point school was like you're being

9:38

educated with like the other orphans from Annie.

9:40

Were you like immediately kind

9:42

of just removed from normal school

9:45

life like from like normal school

9:47

kids basically? Yeah for the 15

9:49

months that I did that show I

9:51

was only going to school in the

9:53

Annie school room Which was

9:56

in the theater. Totally Strange, but it

9:58

felt completely normal because. The you

10:00

adapt twenty her kids kids adapt

10:02

to just about anything, whether it's

10:04

good or bad, and it's just

10:06

was. That's that's what life was.

10:09

But it was really, really hard

10:11

when it ended. Basically you

10:13

aged have any. V.

10:15

Wade started to play you got to be

10:17

a certain height the you know and they

10:19

measured you and like you. You could only

10:21

get your wardrobe like reset it so many

10:24

times until you are just too tall. Usually

10:26

where the like physically feel yourself growing out

10:28

of yeah thing you wanted yes. That

10:31

is so bizarre. Yes ah but

10:34

by that point I think I'd

10:36

gotten an aids and son was

10:38

like a dissenting for for saying

10:40

this and fortunately for me I

10:43

last annie. And like a

10:45

week later was in my

10:47

first television series. It was

10:49

Different Strokes, which was a

10:51

Norman Lear series. In the

10:53

eighties and then that became

10:55

Fact Supplies. Part

11:11

was really lucky and what your family

11:13

where they like how invested with your

11:15

family and you doing as I was

11:17

there feeling. I

11:19

mean, they must have been pretty invested because

11:22

I wouldn't have been able to do it

11:24

otherwise. My mom was a stay at home

11:26

mom. On when we were

11:28

growing up. me and my brother and

11:30

my sister. I was the last

11:32

said then after that see went to

11:35

says training and got a job that

11:37

like while I was growing up. Somebody

11:39

needs to take. You to auditions and take

11:41

you. To classes and do all that. It's

11:44

kind of like a full. Time Job!

11:46

Yeah, I mean. Mothering is a

11:48

full time times anyway but seem

11:50

mother see took care of my

11:53

dad who was blind and then

11:55

also like. To meet of

11:57

a dozen or so I am

11:59

the only that meant to the

12:01

makes house calls know a girl

12:03

well We are pleased to. Sorry

12:07

Molly, forgetting you're a

12:09

woman. And

12:13

then not long after that I got

12:15

my first movie and more bizarre it

12:17

was called Tempest and will be kinda

12:19

Silly Shakespeare. It was a modern

12:21

adaptation sit was directed by Paul

12:23

Mazursky and it was withdrawn. Cast:

12:25

The Baddies and China Rowlands or

12:27

Less and Susan Sarandon and Round

12:29

Juliane Yeah was a really big.

12:32

And. Important movie with a lot of

12:34

like really that actors told Ria

12:37

thirteen. What? Did that feel? it?

12:40

At Intel. Amazing! I was really

12:42

excited. I mean, I didn't know

12:44

who John cast the bodies was because

12:46

I was thirteen years, so I

12:48

wasn't necessarily excited about that per

12:50

se, but I was really excited I

12:52

I just got along with the

12:54

director really well. He was a

12:56

really. Great director and he really

12:58

got me. And. It was

13:00

smart, analysts, interesting. and then I

13:02

I got along so well with

13:04

On Caster, Betty's and Susan Sarandon.

13:07

Are. All of that my mean, the whole experience

13:09

was incredible and that's when I decided that I

13:12

really wanted to focus on film. Doesn't

13:14

feel strange looking back at how comfortable you are. On

13:17

I don't. Think. If. I

13:19

necessarily would have been that

13:22

comfortable. Except for. The

13:25

fact that Palms are see was such

13:27

a great director and with such a.

13:29

Strong Actors Director. He was also.

13:31

An actor before and.

13:35

Like really just wanted the best out

13:37

of me and like knew how to

13:39

tap in to that. I know it's

13:41

basically playing his daughter who was kind

13:43

of a little bit of a wise

13:45

ass and so he wanted to make

13:48

sure that I could bring it. And

13:50

so during the audition process he said

13:52

tell me your life story and I'm

13:54

gonna like throw you a penny every

13:56

time you say something. Done! Okay,

14:00

And so I was like okay, I'm

14:02

Molly Ringwald I was born in Roseville,

14:04

California and he was just like flipping

14:06

a coin. It may. Why is that

14:08

Dumb times? like a straight saddle. It's not

14:10

he. This is fucking with me like he was.

14:14

He wanted to see how I would respond but

14:16

I knew that he was fucking we like it

14:18

felt like a game, it didn't feel like a

14:21

cast you out like a game and so he

14:23

just like him and he ran out of pennies

14:25

and then he started to throw quarter and then

14:27

i and then I gathered them. I just kept

14:29

like gathering the math and he was like okay

14:31

give me back my money and I'm I'm going

14:34

and going to keep analysts soon. As a smart

14:36

he was this a good. Director. Via.

14:38

And he got me and other directors.

14:41

That I have worked to his haven't. Organizers

14:43

so sweet and images

14:46

as. A.

14:52

Five. Dollar.

14:59

Reward? I know. like. For

15:03

my job as part of what. But

15:12

this is your first experience of. We're.

15:15

Going to film it felt like home and

15:17

itself. Fine. And it's like the right to

15:19

challenge. And that was the director. Yeah. Yeah.

15:22

And with the actors I mean it was cast

15:24

of Eddie's it was general ones. I was working

15:26

all of a sudden in this. Poll at

15:28

a towel or ads Quality:

15:31

And. Need to go from like a sitcom. Which

15:34

was asleep Said it said it. Said

15:36

that, Said that, it said it suits.

15:38

And then suddenly I was doing

15:40

this movie that had three weeks

15:42

for her soul. I had of

15:44

times which you don't even get.

15:46

now on practically anything. It was

15:48

really like another time of movie

15:50

making where everybody was just. You.

15:53

know rehearsing and then improvising and then

15:55

talking about the characters it was just

15:57

a whole other thing and it was

15:59

so Fascinating to me. So

16:02

it's like you're both doing it and you're getting an

16:04

education. Exactly. So then what happens? so

16:07

then that movie came out and

16:10

Didn't really for the budget.

16:12

It wasn't really considered a success even though

16:15

it's it's still one of my favorite movies that I've

16:17

ever done But then I kind

16:19

of like got put on lists

16:21

like the casting director lists. This

16:23

is somebody this is a new

16:25

up-and-coming person Like

16:27

a formal thing or like a metaphorical

16:29

thing. I don't think it's

16:31

a formal thing It's just kind of like they're always

16:33

like hunting for fresh blood So

16:36

I was fresh blood. I was 13 years

16:39

old and at that point I was still going

16:41

to like regular school What was

16:43

it like a regular school? Well,

16:45

it depended on the year seventh grade

16:47

was great, it

16:49

was fine. I had a group of friends and

16:53

and then And then the

16:55

summer between seventh and eighth grade is when

16:57

I did my first movie and then I came

17:00

back like a month late to start school

17:02

Mm-hmm. It was enough time for

17:04

all of the cliques to have

17:06

formed while I was away and

17:08

I lost my entire friend group

17:11

And I did have a bully and she

17:13

she just hated me. She was big. She

17:15

had a page boy haircut big eyes Name

17:19

was Laverne. I don't remember

17:21

exactly what she said Except for like that.

17:23

She was gonna like kick my ass after

17:25

school She

17:30

just like would you just like make fun of

17:32

me and like just kind of it seemed like

17:34

I was always afraid of like Turning the corner

17:36

that I was gonna like run into her Anyway,

17:40

so I did my movie over the summer

17:42

I did Tempest and then I came back

17:44

and all of my friends were gone and

17:46

then my Bully befriended

17:48

my best friend and

17:50

that was just basically hell and

17:52

that it all felt very Connected

17:55

to what I did the

17:57

professional thing that I was that I had done

17:59

a movie over the summer

18:02

was just like the jealousy.

18:04

I mean middle

18:06

school is hell for everyone. Anything

18:08

that you do that's at

18:12

all different I think is really

18:14

not looked upon kindly. No it's

18:16

just funny because it's like it

18:19

sounds like this is your first moment of actually having to survive

18:21

fame. Like this is your first moment where this thing you like

18:23

to do with causing unforeseen

18:26

problems that were particularly yours and

18:28

particularly difficult to know how to

18:30

navigate. Yes absolutely. I felt like I

18:32

wanted to be a normal kid in

18:35

certain ways but I wanted to be able to

18:37

do this other thing and still

18:39

be a normal kid but then I

18:41

realized that I couldn't. Were

18:43

you surprised that people were jealous of you?

18:45

Had people been jealous of you in your life before?

18:48

I mean I had definitely gotten bullied

18:50

before for something that I did. Like

18:53

I made a record when I was

18:55

six years old with my dad. What

18:57

was the record? It

18:59

was a jazz record.

19:01

It was called I Want to Be Loved

19:03

By You Molly Sings and the album had

19:06

like a red album cover and there was

19:08

a heart and there was like me in

19:10

the heart wearing like a little gingham dress.

19:30

It was very you know I'm

19:32

really glad that I did it now but

19:35

when I was six or seven years old

19:37

I remember going to school. Actually a girl

19:39

that I became really good friends with brought

19:41

the album to school because she had it

19:43

and wanted me to sign it for

19:45

her which I did but then

19:48

her older brother made fun of me.

19:51

Right. But in like a really kind of

19:53

like mean way. It's like

19:55

the rules of surviving

19:57

grade school are don't be different don't

20:00

be special, don't be vulnerable. And

20:02

so recording music

20:06

is different and maybe special and then you're doing

20:08

it with your father, which is vulnerable. And to

20:10

that moment of like a kid signing

20:12

the album, it's very like risky.

20:17

Yeah, I guess the other thing I'm curious about is

20:21

when people were reacting badly to you in school,

20:25

did your brain complete it? Do you remember as

20:28

they're jealous or is that like the perspective you

20:30

have as an adult? I

20:32

think that's a

20:35

perspective that I have as an adult.

20:37

I mean, I'm sure it's something that my

20:39

mom might have said to me and it's

20:41

something that of course I say to my

20:43

kids too. But yeah, when you're young, it's

20:45

like you don't think people

20:47

are going to be jealous of you. Like I

20:49

didn't think that I was like pretty

20:52

or I didn't really think

20:54

that there would be any reason for anyone to

20:56

be jealous of me. Yeah. Of course,

20:58

I look back on it now and I'm like, I was

21:00

really cute. I

21:02

was adorable. So at some point, did

21:05

you have to stop being a middle

21:07

schooler at the same time as

21:09

being an actor? Or did you keep toggling between

21:11

the things? I left that school

21:14

where I lost my whole friend group.

21:16

And if I stuck it out, it

21:18

probably would have gotten better because you

21:20

know, that stuff usually, I think,

21:22

calms down. But

21:24

it had already been difficult with going

21:26

away and getting my homework. Like the

21:29

teachers were not very amenable. So

21:31

for a year, I went to

21:33

professional children's school with professional children's

21:35

school. Exactly what it sounds like. For

21:37

children who are professionals. Because in my head, I was

21:40

like, is it for people who are professionals or being

21:42

children? Well,

21:46

does that professional children's school Jason Bateman

21:49

was? Oh, wow. Yeah, professional

21:51

child. Yeah, we were professional adults. Yeah,

21:53

we went to school together in eighth

21:55

grade, although we never talked. I kind

21:57

of would sort of sneak glances at

21:59

it. The military kid has. The

22:01

I did that for a year. By the you've only. Had

22:04

to go for three hours a day

22:06

to professional children's or yeah I mean

22:08

it was so like not going to

22:10

school. I couldn't even handle at

22:12

I just said like I feel like

22:14

I'm not learning anything and then I

22:16

went to a good school the next

22:19

year but I really no longer had

22:21

much to the socialize I got very.

22:23

Wary of other girls. So there

22:25

is a while that I just

22:27

didn't really have many friends because

22:29

I became really sort of fearful

22:31

about interacting with other girls that

22:33

were my age. and as you

22:36

understand that like at the time

22:38

or you just like girls are

22:40

scary basically or people are scary

22:42

or. Did. You

22:44

understand that is related to what you're doing

22:46

or not really that I knew that it

22:48

was related to what I was dealing. Yeah.

22:51

Yeah, but that didn't mean that I wanted to

22:53

stop doing when I was dealing. Yeah, It's

22:55

just meant that I. Kind

22:57

of protected myself for about a year.

23:00

I kind of like opted out as

23:02

seen our steps are some for her.

23:04

a good year year and and us,

23:07

yeah, And then the summer

23:09

after ninth grade, as when

23:11

I did sixteen candles. After

23:20

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23:22

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right for you. Welcome

25:22

back to the show. Sixteen Candles

25:24

was released in 1984. The first of three

25:26

movies from director Jinder Hughes

25:28

in which Molly starred. Movies

25:30

about high school kids having crushes and fighting

25:33

with their parents. Movies that at the time

25:35

were revolutionary in part just for what they

25:37

were willing to treat as important. The

25:39

lives of regular American teenagers. The

25:42

breakfast club was the breakout hit. A

25:45

movie filmed for a million dollars that would

25:47

make over 50. The movie's about a group

25:49

of outcast kids who spend a day in Saturday

25:51

detention together. Molly plays Claire

25:54

Standish, the popular girl who gets made

25:56

fun of by the other troublemakers because

25:58

she's the popular one. When

26:00

oh well, here we are.

26:04

I want to congratulate you for being

26:06

on time season he says. I

26:09

think the spin a mistake. I know it's

26:11

citizens that and. I

26:13

don't see her belongings here. It

26:18

is now Seven. Oh

26:20

sits. You. Have exactly eight hours

26:22

and sixty four minutes to think about

26:25

why. Miser. And

26:27

about these movies. in an essay for The

26:29

New Yorker, she describes their enduring power and

26:31

remarks in ways that they don't entirely hold

26:33

up. You read the article at Smarter Than

26:35

Anything I'd say here. But.

26:37

For our purposes today. All. That matters

26:40

is a D. Three movies made Molly into a

26:42

teen Idols. Monster. Into a kind

26:44

of fame that was is pretty rare

26:46

and confusing. There's a scene from Sixteen

26:48

Candles. A teen comedy about a girl

26:50

named Sammy Sammy for gets her birthday.

26:52

Molly plays Sam. The movie opens with

26:54

her character it looking at herself in

26:56

the mirror hoping that he's aged. I

26:59

just as a trace of soon as his cellmate

27:01

as I wake up with as prove mental state

27:03

that was so am I say. Are

27:06

it says that Any such. As hamlet. Or

27:11

there's a cast. As a satisfied to stop I

27:13

have left them with me. Happy Birthday! I. Did

27:16

you understand that sixteen candles was going to

27:18

be? A

27:20

big deal. Now now.

27:23

Now I didn't know at. I mean I saw

27:25

that it was. Going to be

27:27

stolen. And Wix it

27:29

was. It was really fun to do

27:31

Cyrus that fun it was over the

27:34

summer it was my first movie with

27:36

John his and we had like headed

27:38

os. And he was somebody who I

27:40

thought like really saw something in me

27:42

and we have a connection and I

27:44

knew that it was just gonna be

27:46

a fun movie. I didn't expect for

27:48

it to necessarily. Be. A

27:51

head or anything. How old are you in

27:53

your city? Or? I. Was sixteen and

27:55

when did you understand that it was a

27:57

hit like what was the moment? Are.

27:59

You anderson? that? Either. It was

28:01

different or it your life might be different. Or

28:04

actually, sixteen candles was not. It

28:06

wasn't a. Really a big hit when it came out.

28:08

I didn't know that it. Was actually like

28:10

a little bit disappointing at the

28:12

box office, but. I

28:15

had. Done Sixteen Candles

28:18

and then I did Breakfast Club

28:20

John Hughes he asked me and

28:22

Anthony Michael Hall just at the

28:24

end at Sixteen Candles City Breakfast

28:26

Club which was funny because he

28:28

was originally going to do the

28:31

Breakfast Club and then he wrote

28:33

sixteen Candles over a weekend. With

28:35

my picture over his. Computers.

28:38

Typewriter whatever his work stay sense.

28:41

And then he sent that to the studio and they said

28:43

oh we'll we like that when bad are we wanted

28:45

to down and first. And. So he said

28:47

our i wanna meet the girl that's in this

28:49

picture How did he have your Because you are

28:51

on these lists like how does he have your.

28:54

Low he he had left one agency and went

28:56

for another. I think he went from see Aid

28:58

i see I'm or something which is where I

29:00

was at the time and they gave them a

29:02

bunch of. Pictures of their clients and I

29:04

was one of them have a strange way

29:06

or maybe it's not. I don't know how

29:08

anyone normally rates movie, but it's such a

29:10

strange feeling to be like this adult person

29:13

has kind of had a dream inspired by

29:15

you. And are you going to walk into

29:17

that dream? Yeah, it is. It.

29:19

Is, but I was so young and

29:21

didn't really have all of that much

29:24

experience. although I did have more experience

29:26

than Chinese had at that point. I

29:28

mean he had i'm an advertising background

29:31

ah and then on he wrote like

29:33

a lot of comedy stars in wrote

29:35

for Like That, National Lampoon, and all

29:37

of that. But like Sixteen Candles was

29:40

his first. Experience as a director.

29:42

And I think the breakfast club with

29:44

the second. So I had done more

29:46

movies and he sat there and that

29:48

point in time but you know I

29:50

was still. Whatever. Sixteen years

29:53

old, I didn't have that much

29:55

experience. So. Yeah, it

29:57

is extraordinary. suzanne

30:00

Sixteen Candles comes out, it's not earth

30:03

shattering. Breakfast Club is the thing that is.

30:05

Yes, yeah. Breakfast Club is

30:08

a huge hit, like really big.

30:10

Which is also just funny because it's like

30:12

the thing that had taken you off

30:14

the path of the life of a

30:16

normal American teenager was largely

30:19

being filmed acting as

30:21

a normal American teenager. Yeah,

30:24

it's really funny because Hollywood really

30:26

loves to put people in boxes

30:28

where they think, okay, that's all

30:30

you can do. Like if you

30:32

do something well and

30:35

you succeed at that thing then that's all you

30:37

can do. And I

30:39

succeeded very well at projecting

30:41

this, what Pauline

30:43

Kael, a famous film critic called

30:46

Charismatic Normality. What

30:48

did you make of that? Well, I didn't

30:50

like it at the time because I was like,

30:52

I don't wanna be normal, that sounds boring. But

30:54

Charismatic is also. Yeah, but Charismatic is good.

30:57

So it's kind of seemed a little bit like

30:59

a backhanded compliment, but I get what she was

31:01

saying now. And I was,

31:03

I projected this very normal

31:05

teenager, but

31:08

I was so not normal as a teenager

31:10

and my experience had never been like a

31:12

normal teenager. So I was acting in this

31:15

thing that was actually kind of like foreign

31:17

to me. And then suddenly I went from

31:20

being sort of known as

31:25

the shy girl who acted at

31:27

school to being like the

31:29

most famous teenager in

31:31

America. Do you remember when

31:34

it became clear to you that that was the case? I

31:38

remember like certain things

31:40

like when all of the

31:43

girls who had kind of like dumped me at

31:45

school wanted to get together and go

31:47

out and like talk

31:50

about what it

31:52

was like making these movies and the

31:54

people that I acted with. And it's

31:56

like this feeling that you get. Obviously

31:58

I'm like recognized a lot. more. What does

32:01

it feeling feel like? It felt

32:03

a little bit overwhelming and sometimes

32:05

really embarrassing. It's like being taken

32:07

by a wave that's just like okay

32:10

I know how to swim but I can't

32:12

swim in this like tidal wave that's taking

32:14

me away. I don't know how to navigate

32:17

that so I'm just gonna like try

32:19

to get a gulp of air when I can and

32:21

just sort of like let this wave carry

32:23

me where it's gonna take me. When

32:26

you were talking earlier about how it feels

32:30

good to be on stage when you can't see the

32:32

crowd but you can also be a person who's shy

32:34

when you can see a bunch of faces. You're talking

32:36

about I think wanting

32:38

to be open in places where you

32:40

feel safe being open and I would imagine the experience

32:42

of like being that young and suddenly being that famous

32:44

it means you're

32:46

always gonna be on stage in a way. Yeah. And

32:48

you're not gonna have control over it and you're never

32:51

gonna feel I

32:55

don't know like the comfort that comes with knowing that

32:57

your life has a backstage to it. Yeah. Yeah.

33:01

I was always really jealous of people that

33:03

had stage names like Bono

33:06

or Sting or like people that had

33:08

changed their names because I felt like

33:11

that way it would be really clear like when

33:13

I'm Bono I'm

33:15

doing that. There would always be people that

33:17

would know the real

33:19

me and then know this other version of

33:21

me but Molly Ringwald is my

33:23

name and that's it

33:25

and I'm always that

33:28

person but there's obviously like a

33:30

Molly who's a performer and Molly

33:32

who is performing

33:34

as Molly too. Like

33:37

when I'm doing interviews now it's

33:39

a little different because I know you but

33:42

you know when I'm doing interviews not

33:44

to say that I'm lying but I'm

33:46

obviously like I am a version of

33:48

myself. Yeah. That I put

33:51

out there and I

33:53

don't talk about the most

33:55

private parts of myself

33:57

unless I decide that I want to for or

34:00

whatever reason, I feel like there has to

34:02

be a part of me that's just for me.

34:05

And you don't really get to do that when

34:08

you have fame that's at

34:10

a certain level that's burning

34:12

that bright. It's like everybody

34:15

wants everything of you all the time.

34:17

And every interaction that you have with

34:19

somebody, whether it's a good day or

34:22

a bad day, you have

34:24

to be on all the time. But I don't know anybody

34:26

that can be on all the

34:28

time. I certainly couldn't. And I

34:30

felt like it was really hard because

34:33

anytime you make a mistake or

34:37

just having a bad day, it

34:39

suddenly shapes this narrative

34:41

about you. Was

34:44

that happening where you would say

34:46

the wrong thing to the wrong person in the wrong way or

34:48

whatever and all of a sudden it's a story? Oh

34:50

yeah, yeah, definitely.

34:53

And I could feel it sort of happening. I

34:56

was also really worried about it too. I

34:58

was like, there's no way that this can

35:00

stay at this level. There

35:02

has to be a backlash. You knew that? Oh

35:05

yeah. Why did you know that? I

35:07

don't know, I just instinctively knew. I

35:10

just knew. I

35:12

mean, you also like see it too. You

35:14

see people who are built up and then

35:17

torn down. I was

35:19

smart enough to know that everything is cyclical

35:22

and that there was no way that I could stay

35:24

at that level. I don't even think that I really

35:26

wanted to. So there might've

35:28

been a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy

35:30

there as well. But I

35:33

remember exactly like when my

35:35

backlash started, People Magazine had

35:37

organized for me to

35:39

do this story with Lillian Gish.

35:41

She was a really famous like

35:44

20s film star. I

35:46

guess they were saying I was like the

35:48

Lillian Gish of my time. So

35:50

they wanted to do this like old Hollywood,

35:52

young Hollywood. And I was really excited about

35:54

it. Like I know who

35:56

she was. I had watched silent movies, but I was

35:59

in New York. and I didn't

36:01

have a very good sense of direction and

36:03

I got lost and I

36:05

couldn't find a taxi and it was in

36:07

winter and I didn't have a cell phone,

36:09

like tried to call and then finally my

36:11

publicist said, it's too late, just forget it,

36:13

just like go home and send her flowers,

36:16

which I did. And

36:18

I felt terrible about it. And

36:20

while this was happening, I thought, oh

36:22

my God, here is the beginning of

36:24

my background. Really? Yeah. And it

36:26

was, I mean, it was a better

36:28

story for them because

36:31

it was like, oh, young Hollywood

36:33

is so awful and doesn't care,

36:35

they're brats, they're brat pack. It

36:37

was like poor Lillian

36:39

Gish was there and she had baked

36:41

me cookies and she was this old

36:43

woman that was there feeling so sad

36:46

and rejected by this brat. It was

36:48

just like, I could have written a

36:50

story myself and that kind of like

36:52

started this whole thing. And then you

36:55

get branded for like being difficult, you're

36:58

still famous. It's just that instead

37:00

of getting this warm embrace

37:03

from everyone, people start thinking that you're a

37:05

brat and you're not a nice person. It's

37:08

just so funny. I mean, it's not funny.

37:11

And I know that the experience of it wasn't

37:13

funny, but as a scandal, it's so, it's like

37:16

this person wasn't. Yes, it's very

37:18

tame. Like the person wasn't punctual.

37:21

The person disrespected their elders. It feels

37:23

like it's from like another different older.

37:26

It feels like a scandal from the 50s or something.

37:29

I know, it's so ridiculous. But

37:31

then that's like enough because it's

37:34

just perception. And by the way, can

37:36

I just also say

37:39

like, oh, boo-hoo for me. I mean, I

37:41

think in terms of like problems

37:43

that you could have in the world,

37:45

I've led a very privileged life. I

37:48

have to acknowledge that. I don't hear a person asking

37:50

for sympathy. I mean, at least the question I'm trying

37:52

to ask you. I think the question you're answering, it's

37:54

not how hard is it to be you?

37:56

It's just like, How

37:59

did you learn to? navigate a life

38:01

that. The

38:03

one person who dated for you in touch

38:06

with we had a similar life. You are

38:08

late for cookies and support of your side

38:10

of the old Agatha Unity mean it's like

38:12

everyone's going to have an opinion about you.

38:15

If. Everyone has an opinion that you can't control

38:17

it. But. You have to kind

38:19

of learn that and you are

38:22

somebody was trying to behave and

38:24

like that hyper conscientious way. Say

38:26

when fumble something and then you

38:28

get. Caught. In.

38:32

A success of into a full sunset

38:34

difference their lovers and says if being

38:36

careful hadn't made you save. But

38:39

is less me. totally. What did you learn from

38:41

that? What did you adjust? I'm.

38:45

I don't know. I feel

38:47

like I just kind of cats

38:49

laden trucking along and like doing

38:52

my best and I felt very

38:54

hyper vigilance. Yeah, Ah,

38:56

very careful. With that

38:58

like to a point of where. I

39:01

at least says exhausting let us

39:04

all exhausted. Felt. Tired

39:06

all the time. Because to be

39:08

that vigilant when you're supposed to

39:10

be like a young person. Just

39:12

kind of like. Sucking. Up

39:14

and making. Mistakes. Yes. I

39:16

didn't really have the chance to do

39:18

that because I was expected to be

39:20

a role model. because I was like

39:23

the perfect teenager. I was like that.

39:25

a good girl. It was cysts, this

39:27

image that I had that. yeah, I

39:29

mean aside from standing up Lillian guess

39:31

and not eating Lily indices to. Sit on

39:33

this survey for me. I felt like

39:35

there were like a lot of expectations. For

39:37

me to to like be a certain way.

39:40

Where. Would you like when you are like. Fifteen

39:43

sixteen seventeen when you were getting in trouble

39:45

with your magazine, where was a vase you

39:47

think over you can you be like a

39:49

person? On.

39:54

Like. In the privacy of my own home.

39:56

In that was the only place and I think

39:58

that I felt safe. Anywhere

40:00

else, like if I was

40:02

out somewhere somebody could take

40:04

a picture or like over

40:06

here a conversation. I was

40:09

followed in my car a

40:11

couple times. By. To

40:13

Strangers We're strangers. Are

40:15

people like wanting pictures

40:17

or photograph? Sir, I'm.

40:20

Yeah was kinda scary. You really New

40:22

York? The same? Well. I was going back

40:24

and forth between New York an ally.

40:26

And lowered It looks like to display

40:29

try to have a life like camera

40:31

phones and exists but paparazzi does. Like

40:33

did you pick your nose? Assess. Assess.

40:35

Assess I. Feel like I

40:37

really. Was not

40:40

able. To have any kind

40:42

of like a normal life

40:44

in Los Angeles or in

40:46

America. At that point I couldn't

40:48

do it which is I think why ended

40:50

up moving to France as a way to

40:53

get away from it. Yeah, I didn't

40:55

realize that at the time that I think that

40:57

site. Choice to move away had

40:59

a lot to do with same. That's

41:01

crazy. I mean, it's crazy to be. To.

41:04

Correctly. Look at your life's. Most

41:09

the people who have to leave a country as big as

41:11

america than thing really terror of. A

41:14

spirit. I mean, Yeah,

41:16

why didn't realize it at the

41:18

time? I just fell

41:20

in love with France and Selma

41:22

with that feeling that I had

41:24

their and what was the feeling

41:26

that I can breeze read. Everything

41:29

spell new and. It felt

41:31

very colorful. I mean

41:33

it, It was colorful. It was summer in

41:36

France their a slight. Flower stalls everywhere in

41:38

the sky was like impossibly blue and I

41:40

felt better than I had stalled in a

41:42

really long time. And. To you understand

41:45

how much that was being able to lead? So.

41:47

Be like yourself and not Molly Ringwald all the

41:49

time. I think it was. Pretty.

41:53

Clear. To me he added had a. Lot

41:55

to do with ceiling free. I was

41:57

a free woman in Paris. I

42:01

felt unfettered and alive. And

42:04

I mean, French people have access

42:06

to films. Why can you turn American

42:08

fame off in France? Well,

42:10

you can't now, but at

42:12

the time, the movies that

42:14

I had done, they weren't

42:16

huge hits there. Now

42:19

they're known because they've, of course,

42:21

played on television. They're sort of like

42:23

considered cult movies now, like iconic films,

42:25

which is always kind of surprising now

42:27

when I'm in France and I'm recognized.

42:30

Because it's a place where you're used to having fame

42:32

camouflage. Exactly. Exactly.

42:34

But when I moved to France, there were

42:37

whole bits of the 90s

42:39

that I feel like I kind of missed because I

42:42

was living in a country where everything was not available,

42:44

where you didn't have every single

42:47

television channel that exists. Were

42:50

they not watching Seinfeld? No.

42:53

Something French instead? Yeah. Interesting.

42:55

I was in French, but yeah, the

42:58

movies that I did weren't that well known. And

43:00

then I also dyed my hair like dark brown.

43:03

Oh, that would... Yes. To

43:05

kind of like blend in because the red does kind

43:07

of set you apart a little. Yeah.

43:10

So what was it like to be able

43:12

to take off the robe of fame?

43:14

Did you miss it at all? No.

43:18

Not at all. I

43:20

didn't. I mean, I will

43:22

say like the only thing

43:25

that I think I missed would

43:28

be automatically being able to get a

43:30

good table in a restaurant. Yeah, that's

43:32

what you were going to say. Absolutely do that's what you were going to say. Restaurant.

43:36

Yeah. That's it. I

43:40

feel like it was... There

43:42

was something really nice about

43:44

feeling like if

43:46

somebody responded to me, they

43:48

were responding to me, like

43:50

the real me, or

43:53

as much as they knew the real me. You weren't

43:55

constantly in conversation with your own reputation

43:57

or wondering what someone was reacting to.

44:00

or what they wanted or how you might

44:02

disappoint them. Yes. Yeah. Which

44:05

you probably hadn't had as an adult.

44:07

Like just the normal levels of self-consciousness

44:09

that a normal person has. Yeah.

44:12

It felt like I suddenly

44:14

was somewhere like without

44:17

a weapon. I didn't

44:19

have this fancy sword or whatever. It

44:21

was just me. And my muscles

44:23

got strong because of it. Were there things you had to

44:25

learn how to do? Well,

44:27

yeah, speak French. I mean like,

44:30

I imagine that if you're very famous and American in the 1980s,

44:32

you probably don't

44:36

know how funny you are because people are going to like

44:38

laugh at your jokes a little bit more or something. Like

44:41

you don't know what your level of charm is

44:44

separate from people's excitedness to just like see a

44:46

person that they've seen in a film. Yeah,

44:49

definitely. And then also you throw

44:51

in the extra thing about

44:53

being American too. And so you're dealing

44:56

with the French. They sort of don't

44:58

like you. Yes. Yes.

45:01

And were you acting in France? I

45:03

was still acting, but I think

45:06

I definitely put my career on

45:08

the back burner. Like it wasn't

45:10

as important to me. And I

45:13

also felt kind of like burned in Hollywood.

45:18

I felt like I wasn't really valued at that

45:20

point. But also

45:23

I will say, because I've thought a

45:25

lot about it too. I'm like, did

45:27

I kind of tank my career because

45:29

I moved to France

45:31

or were there other elements

45:34

at play as well? And

45:37

I had done one of Miramax's first

45:39

movies that Harvey Weinstein

45:41

produced. And I

45:43

had to sue Harvey Weinstein. Back then?

45:46

I did, yeah. Not for any

45:48

sexual impropriety. I was very lucky

45:50

in that regard. He just didn't pay

45:53

me what he was contractually obligated to

45:55

pay me. He just didn't. He

45:57

just like, the film was not a success.

46:00

but I had like a percentage of

46:02

the gross. And he just didn't pay. And

46:04

he just didn't pay. And my lawyer called

46:06

and said, Harvey Weinstein's not paying you for this

46:08

and I think that we need to go after

46:10

it. And I said, go ahead. And she did

46:12

and I got paid. But

46:16

it was just coming into an

46:18

era where everything interesting

46:21

that was done pretty

46:23

much was done by Harvey Weinstein. So

46:25

I think that might have had

46:28

something to do with it. I don't know, it was

46:30

just kind of like this period

46:33

of time where I

46:35

wasn't obscure, but it was just like, I felt like

46:37

everyone was kind of like waiting for a

46:39

comeback. Did you wanna come back?

46:43

I wanted to do movies that were interesting

46:45

to me. Yeah. It's hard

46:47

because the fame is a double-edged

46:49

sword because the fame makes

46:53

life kind of difficult

46:55

to navigate on the

46:57

one hand. But then if

47:00

you have a certain level of fame

47:02

that it enables you to do the

47:04

projects that you want to do. Like

47:06

all movies get made

47:08

basically, somebody has to raise

47:10

the money and the only way that they

47:13

can raise the money is if they

47:15

go after this list and they'll say, okay,

47:17

for this part, if you get Nicole

47:21

Kidman, Gwyneth Paltrow, whatever

47:23

the list is. And for

47:25

a while I was on that list. And

47:28

then I kind of like got booted off that

47:30

list and there's only so many parts to

47:32

go around. And then the

47:34

older that you get, the less parts there

47:36

are. So for a big

47:38

chunk of that time, I kind of like

47:41

took myself out of the

47:43

running for a lot of interesting things or it

47:45

just wasn't considered, I don't know. Did you regret

47:47

that? Cause it also sounds like it was what

47:49

you needed. I...

47:55

No, I think it was what I needed. I

47:58

mean, to come back to your point. about

48:00

how I am

48:03

sane, which my kids

48:06

would debate you on that. But

48:09

I think as

48:11

actors go, I think I

48:14

am pretty sane, and I think I am

48:16

pretty centered. And I think the only way

48:18

really that I was able

48:20

to do that and to have that kind

48:22

of longevity was to go

48:24

away and do what I did and to

48:26

sort of opt out of that

48:28

like hamster wheel that I was in. I

48:53

think that's a good idea. I

49:01

think that's a good idea. I

49:06

think that's a

49:09

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51:32

today. Wait,

51:45

what's the actual question again? How do you survive

51:47

fame? How do you survive being a public person

51:49

if you prefer that? I

51:51

really believe that it is something that

51:53

is genetic in you.

51:55

I think it's in your DNA and

51:58

I think you're the kind of person that you're person who

52:01

can withstand that

52:03

sort of public scrutiny and

52:06

be okay with it and even maybe

52:09

want it. But you have to ask

52:11

yourself if that's something that you really want

52:14

and know that that's what you want. Because

52:16

once you get it, it's always

52:19

there. Like you might not

52:21

be able to sort

52:23

of keep a certain level of fame,

52:27

like hotness comes and goes, but

52:29

once you become famous, you're

52:31

always famous. From

52:34

that perspective, it's like that makes you

52:36

almost like someone who got like a face tattoo when they were 12. Yeah,

52:41

yeah. Like I remember

52:43

being in California after I came back from

52:45

France and I was

52:47

with my husband and it was

52:49

Matilda, my now 20-year-old daughter, learning

52:52

to ride a bike for the

52:54

first time, which feels like a

52:57

private moment. And obviously it's something

52:59

that you can't do inside. So

53:01

we were outside and then paparazzi

53:03

pictures came out and it felt

53:05

so gross because I, well,

53:07

for one thing, I was also like I had no idea.

53:09

So that was like a creepy feeling. It was kind of

53:11

like how it must feel if

53:14

there's like a private investigator. I mean, we were

53:16

just teaching our kid how to ride a bike,

53:18

but it was just this really creepy feeling that

53:21

there's somebody there and you didn't

53:23

see them, didn't know that they were there. And

53:26

yeah, that's just kind of the stuff that you deal

53:29

with. And this is like at a level of

53:31

fame that's not even like it was, I think,

53:34

when I made those movies. Right. When

53:37

I've had friends who've had film

53:39

or television success, what I've noticed is this

53:41

feeling of you're

53:44

in public, like you're at dinner

53:46

or something like that, and there's

53:48

the feeling that I will arrive too late, which is that

53:51

the attention of the room has begun to

53:53

bend towards them and maybe in

53:55

a way that needs to be navigated. Like someone's about to

53:57

come up and say something or whatever. And

54:00

my radar to that is so dull. And

54:02

I've felt very badly for them that

54:04

their radar for that always has to be on. Like if

54:06

someone takes their cell phone out, are they taking a picture

54:09

of them or are they texting somebody? If somebody's like wandering

54:11

over the table. You know what I mean? Oh yeah,

54:13

no, I have a very finely

54:16

tuned radar to that. Like

54:18

I can tell by the way that somebody

54:20

like pulls out their cell phone, like

54:24

the way that it's like angled. Right.

54:27

There are certain words that I can pick out.

54:29

Obviously my name, Ringwald, Molly, I can hear that.

54:31

I can hear the word breakfast. Like

54:33

I can hear like 16, I

54:36

can hear pink. Yeah, I

54:38

definitely feel like I'm somebody

54:40

who is okay with

54:43

a certain level of fame. I

54:46

just want to have some autonomy

54:49

over my life and over the choices

54:51

that I make. Which is

54:53

one of the reasons why I didn't let my

54:55

kids act professionally when they were kids. They

54:58

wanted to. Oh yeah, I

55:00

mean this was like the argument, the

55:03

nonstop argument that I've had with my

55:05

daughter Matilda since she was eight.

55:08

She wanted to start acting when she was

55:10

eight and we wouldn't let her, we made

55:12

the choice to not have

55:14

her be a professional actress. And

55:17

she said why? And I said because

55:20

I grew up in this business and

55:22

I think like if you're talented, that talent's

55:24

not going to go away. Yeah. I

55:27

just think that you should learn how to do it

55:30

and be really prepared so when you

55:32

start acting, you'll know what you're doing

55:34

and hopefully you will have grown up a

55:36

bit. And it was a

55:38

real bone of contention between us. I mean she

55:40

was furious, she's still mad at me. And she's

55:42

done her first movie now. Like a

55:44

big movie, like she has a supporting role in

55:46

this movie with Anne Hathaway that's coming

55:49

out on Amazon. So

55:51

I feel like I gave good

55:53

advice. I feel like I made the right choice but she's

55:56

still mad at me. And I don't

55:58

know, like I was super. driven

56:00

like she was. I wanted

56:02

to do what I did, but

56:06

the difference is that I did it. My

56:09

dad was like a jazz musician in a

56:11

small town. My mom didn't know anything about

56:13

the business. They were artistic people, but they

56:16

didn't know about the business, but I do,

56:18

and I have been through that.

56:22

I also feel like it's hard to

56:24

make a transition from being a younger

56:26

actor to being an adult

56:29

actor. So anyway, when I would

56:31

say all this to Matilda, she would

56:33

say, well, you did it. Well,

56:35

you did it and you're fine. You're

56:37

smart. You're all of this stuff. Like,

56:39

so why are you different? Why

56:41

can't I do it if you did it? That's

56:45

such a hard question. What do you say?

56:49

I say that I think that I'm

56:51

an outlier. I

56:53

would say the majority of

56:55

kids that act

56:57

are not okay. Do you remember

56:59

even being in your teenage years

57:01

and seeing people with

57:04

different relationships to their fame or their success where

57:06

you thought like, I can see them making a

57:08

mistake that I'm consciously trying not to make? Yeah,

57:13

I mean, I've been doing this long enough to

57:15

where I could see people just completely

57:17

burning out and

57:19

becoming really self-destructive, whether

57:22

it's like drugs or alcohol or,

57:24

you know, making bad choices,

57:27

just putting themselves out there too

57:30

much. I've also been doing this

57:32

long enough and worked with enough young people

57:35

that have had to sort

57:37

of navigate fame that comes to them like

57:39

all of a sudden. And

57:41

it's interesting, like kind of observing them from

57:44

a little bit of a distance and sort

57:46

of seeing, okay, I can see the people who are going

57:48

to be okay and the people that aren't going to be

57:50

okay. You can see it. Oh,

57:53

yeah. Yeah, totally. And you can see the

57:55

people that are just like all of a sudden get

57:57

so big headed and they feel like it's going

57:59

to be okay. to last forever and yeah

58:01

you just see it and you know

58:03

the way the business works. Yeah but

58:06

you really think that the thing that made you

58:08

okay might not have been something

58:10

you learned or did but it might have just

58:12

been a way that you were. Yeah I

58:16

think that that it is a

58:18

little bit my DNA

58:22

but it's also my personality

58:24

is somebody who is able to

58:26

kind of step outside and

58:28

like observe myself a little bit.

58:31

I feel like I have a certain amount of

58:33

self-reflection that not everybody has. I

58:37

agree I mean one of the things

58:39

I remember noticing you doing I was

58:41

like oh you can learn from

58:43

this as you mentioned off hand only once you just said

58:45

like I don't read reviews I don't read my reviews and

58:48

when you first said it I thought oh Molly doesn't

58:51

mind her reviews interesting and

58:53

then later I was like no probably

58:56

Molly figured out that reading

58:58

reviews does things to

59:01

her that she doesn't enjoy. Yeah

59:04

exactly that's what it

59:07

is. I make a deal with

59:09

myself where I mean

59:11

it's not something that I really have

59:13

to do now with the internet

59:15

but I stopped reading reviews so

59:17

long ago that I made this deal

59:19

where I would save them like

59:22

all the reviews would be saved and

59:24

so one day if I wanted to read them I

59:26

could read them. Do you have them

59:29

in a shoebox? I

59:31

knew that my parents I think collected

59:33

everything but like my mom she's not

59:35

organized enough to actually ever do a

59:38

scrapbook or anything so they're like

59:40

in boxes that are probably like falling

59:43

apart and probably part of like

59:45

a rat's nest and like a

59:47

garage somewhere. I don't know it

59:49

was just this idea it was kind

59:51

of like tricking the brain in a way to

59:54

keep myself from having to read them. There was

59:56

this idea that I could read them someday it

59:59

kind of made it okay.

1:00:02

Because reading a review, it's like

1:00:04

the dopamine of the good review,

1:00:06

it's just exactly like

1:00:08

getting that thumbs up.

1:00:11

But then the bad review is

1:00:14

exactly like being trolled. I mean,

1:00:17

for me, there's just really no upside to it.

1:00:20

Yeah, and also the good reviews are very addictive,

1:00:22

and the bad reviews are very sticky, and the

1:00:25

compliment never lasts as long as the insult, and

1:00:27

the compliment kind of just makes you want another

1:00:29

compliment. Yeah, exactly. It's like it never feels good

1:00:31

as that first high. After

1:00:37

that, then you're just chasing it, and

1:00:39

then you're just a person who's just

1:00:41

chasing that approval. And yeah,

1:00:43

I just don't want to be that person.

1:00:45

Yeah. That doesn't mean that I don't

1:00:47

care what people think.

1:00:50

But I care much more about

1:00:53

the opinions of people that

1:00:55

I really respect. My

1:00:57

friend Merritt always says, protect the head, protect the

1:01:00

head. There's certain things that I

1:01:02

know are just

1:01:04

self-protective, and not reading

1:01:06

my reviews is one of them. Not

1:01:08

spending too much time doomscrolling is

1:01:10

another. I just have these rules

1:01:13

like, okay, I fell into this

1:01:15

pothole numerous times, and

1:01:17

then eventually you

1:01:19

walk around the pothole that's

1:01:21

in the street, and then eventually you learn to

1:01:23

take another street. And I feel like I've been

1:01:25

doing this for long enough to where I've learned

1:01:27

to take the other street. But some people

1:01:29

don't learn that. Some people never learn that.

1:01:32

Yeah. One of the ways people react

1:01:34

to pressure like that is to just really

1:01:36

act out. But it sounds like

1:01:38

the way you reacted to it was to just try to

1:01:40

complete the assignment. Yes. Exactly.

1:01:45

Why do you think that was? I

1:01:49

feel like I had

1:01:52

a lot of practice

1:01:55

from the time that I was little. Like,

1:01:58

wow, this is so much fun. This

1:02:00

feels like therapy. Thank you, PJ. I

1:02:04

haven't done therapy in a while. Feels

1:02:06

really good. Thank you for talking about this stuff.

1:02:08

I feel like I started out by wanting

1:02:11

to please my parents. I

1:02:14

feel like everybody. But the fact

1:02:16

that I was performing with my

1:02:18

dad and his... What

1:02:21

was the name of the album, the first jazz album?

1:02:23

I want to be loved by you. Right? I

1:02:26

know. I didn't name it. I

1:02:29

didn't name it. I didn't name it. It was

1:02:31

one of the songs that I sang. But I think

1:02:34

I had a lot of practice on performing and getting...

1:02:39

What's the word? Approval. Yeah.

1:02:42

Getting approval from my dad

1:02:44

or my mom and then from an audience and

1:02:47

then from the world. And I had to complete

1:02:49

the assignment. But so it's like, by

1:02:53

your description, there's

1:02:56

this assumption most people would make about

1:02:58

a person becoming for

1:03:00

a time like the most famous teenager in

1:03:02

America, which is probably, since fame is a

1:03:04

hard thing to find, that person must have

1:03:06

really wanted it. And what

1:03:08

you're saying is like, no. What you wanted

1:03:10

was to act, to not disappoint people, to

1:03:12

fulfill the assignment, to do a good job

1:03:14

of what you're asked to do. And

1:03:18

by virtue of your skill at doing that and

1:03:20

time and circumstance, you just end up

1:03:22

in this position where the pressure is extraordinarily

1:03:25

high and where you're experiencing

1:03:27

a life that a lot of people want, but wasn't

1:03:29

the thing that you'd particularly wanted. Yes.

1:03:33

This is very confusing. You

1:03:36

just synthesize it so well

1:03:38

and so succinctly. Yeah,

1:03:41

it's hard because, I mean,

1:03:43

now I feel like we're dealing with levels

1:03:46

of fame that feel like

1:03:48

so beyond

1:03:51

what I had. It's

1:03:54

sort of crazy to hear Molly Ringwald, a

1:03:56

woman whose face was on the cover of

1:03:59

Time Magazine. say that actually

1:04:01

the fame she experienced, much

1:04:03

weaker than the plutonium grade stuff being

1:04:05

manufactured today. But I

1:04:07

think she's right. And generally

1:04:09

speaking, I wish famous people

1:04:12

talked about what it means to experience

1:04:14

attention this openly. I

1:04:16

get why they don't. It's risky. You don't

1:04:18

wanna be seen as bragging or worse complaining.

1:04:21

But it's a shame, because one thing that has

1:04:23

changed since the 1980s is

1:04:26

that the problem of how to navigate

1:04:28

public attention has become a skill that

1:04:30

even regular people need to learn. Civilians

1:04:33

have been offered the problems of fame,

1:04:35

if not its benefits. The

1:04:37

government doesn't issue American teenagers a publicist

1:04:39

when they get their first Instagram account.

1:04:45

So what have we learned about surviving public

1:04:47

attention from Molly Ringwald? She

1:04:50

believes the ability to withstand pressure is more about

1:04:52

who you inherently are than anything else, and that

1:04:54

you won't know who you are under pressure until

1:04:56

you find yourself there. But

1:04:59

that said, Molly's instincts have led her to

1:05:01

make choices that are really smart. Anybody

1:05:03

who'd copy them, a teenager could. I think

1:05:05

I will. So here they are. Doing

1:05:09

what you love might mean you don't get to be

1:05:11

normal or invisible. Sometimes people

1:05:13

are going to dislike you. You shouldn't

1:05:15

assume it's because of something you've done. It might be because

1:05:17

of what you represent. You

1:05:19

can't actually be vigilant all the time. If

1:05:22

attention is hurting you, you can walk away from

1:05:24

it. Keep your reviews

1:05:26

in a box and keep the box closed. Protect

1:05:29

the head. Did

1:05:33

I answer? Did I answer

1:05:35

like- Oh my God, you're so- Did

1:05:37

I do well? Was I perfect? You

1:05:39

completed the assignment. Thank

1:05:43

you, Molly. Thank

1:05:45

you, PJ. I'm

1:05:49

not perfect, I'm just a little bit of a mess. I'm not

1:05:51

perfect, I'm just a little bit of

1:05:53

a mess. Molly Ringwald, she's

1:05:55

an actor, writer, mom, same person.

1:05:58

You can see her in the new Ryan Murphy. miniseries

1:06:00

feud, Capote vs. Wands on FX,

1:06:02

a town town. One

1:06:05

last thing before we go, our

1:06:07

editor found a very enchanting song online

1:06:09

with just a few hundred listens and

1:06:11

wanted to know how had

1:06:14

this beautiful song gotten to her. Let's

1:06:16

have some notes. Welcome

1:06:35

back to the show. Our editor at Search

1:06:37

Engine is Shruthi Pinimanneni. She's a person

1:06:40

whose mind and editorial taste you're constantly hearing on

1:06:42

the show, but whose voice you never

1:06:44

hear on mic. She had

1:06:46

a question that made her break her Search

1:06:48

Engine vow of silence. Hello.

1:06:53

Hello. Can

1:07:02

you just tell me your name, introduce yourself?

1:07:05

Who are you? What

1:07:07

do you do? I'm an MP with this. I'm a

1:07:09

singer. I'm 24 years old from London and here I'm

1:07:11

on the book. I

1:07:16

wanted to talk to

1:07:18

you. Man,

1:07:21

now it seems like ages ago, just

1:07:23

a couple weeks ago when I first,

1:07:25

the first time I heard your song,

1:07:28

Girl. And

1:07:38

it's funny because I don't use Spotify

1:07:40

that much. I work in radio. I

1:07:43

listen to a lot of music and podcasts. It's

1:07:45

generally not on Spotify. And

1:07:48

there was this one evening after work, I was doing like

1:07:50

a deep clean in my apartment and I was like, I'll

1:07:52

just try a Spotify playlist today. Love

1:07:54

that. And I heard your song. Love

1:07:57

that. And I heard your song. Love that. I

1:08:01

would take

1:08:10

my breath away and then I would just gather and plate it

1:08:12

on a free piece for a very long time. I

1:08:15

did the thing that

1:08:18

I would

1:08:20

normally do, which

1:08:23

is look you

1:08:26

up and

1:08:28

I was like, whatever else

1:08:34

she's made, I will buy it right now. And

1:08:37

I realized like there wasn't much out there. There was like

1:08:39

a couple of songs and on

1:08:41

Spotify and on SoundCloud, the listens were at

1:08:43

that point in the hundreds. Yeah. And I

1:08:45

was like, Oh my gosh, I might be

1:08:48

hearing a person who's like stepping

1:08:50

out into the music world like right

1:08:52

now. Yeah. It's quite funny. Like when

1:08:54

people talk about girls like that, because I'm sick

1:08:56

of it. Do you know what I mean? Like

1:09:00

I am so bored of that song, but people

1:09:02

come to me and they're like, I just couldn't

1:09:04

believe it. And you're sick of it because you've

1:09:06

been playing it for so long or

1:09:08

singing it for so long. Well,

1:09:10

yeah. I mean, you know, like in all kinds of creative processes,

1:09:12

it's such a long turnaround

1:09:14

time, like from writing the first few

1:09:17

lyrics in the notebook to having

1:09:19

it mastered and then released like Kelsoz was a

1:09:21

probably a year in the making in total. But

1:09:24

it's really cool that it connects with so many

1:09:26

people. I'm supporting Kiefer on tour at the moment

1:09:28

and like people are coming up to

1:09:30

me and saying like, that song is mad. I'm

1:09:32

just like, what are you hearing? Because

1:09:35

I'm just hearing my song. Is

1:09:37

this the first song you've

1:09:40

put out or what am I like? What stage of

1:09:42

Olympia am I hearing? So

1:09:45

it's the third song technically, but I'm 24

1:09:48

and COVID kind of took away two and

1:09:51

a half years. So I kind

1:09:53

of say I'm like 21, but I've been in a

1:09:55

gospel choir. I was in a gospel choir for seven years.

1:09:57

So the idea of getting up and just. belting

1:10:00

like I love it. It's how comes

1:10:02

back in nature to me at this point. But I think the

1:10:05

exposing part of it is the lyrics. I don't tend

1:10:07

to write about love. I have no interest in writing

1:10:09

about love. It's boring. I

1:10:11

just think De'Angelo can do it better than me. Do

1:10:13

you know what I mean? And

1:10:16

so you record this song, it

1:10:18

sounds like about a year ago. And then how does

1:10:20

it get on that playlist

1:10:22

that I happen to listen to? Beats

1:10:25

me. The

1:10:28

thing is with editorial playlists, it's like 100,000, 10 million or

1:10:30

a million. I'm not

1:10:33

going to say this right, but a shed

1:10:35

load of songs gets submitted onto

1:10:38

these editorial playlists every

1:10:40

single day. So the chances of getting one

1:10:42

of Fresh Finds, which is a global top

1:10:45

100 tracks of the week or whatever,

1:10:47

it's not going to happen. Do you know what I

1:10:50

mean? Yeah. But yeah,

1:10:52

it's just wild because before I was like, whatever,

1:10:54

editorial playlist doesn't happen. And

1:10:57

now I'm just like, I need them. I need them all.

1:10:59

I must feel like once you get it, you want to

1:11:01

do it again. But it seems so mysterious

1:11:03

how it happened in the first place. Yeah. What's

1:11:05

funny, I don't know if you feel like this as well, but

1:11:07

in the creative industry, you kind of hit

1:11:09

one target and you don't even really put

1:11:12

yourself on the back. You just go, right,

1:11:14

what's next? You know, like I've got a

1:11:16

song coming out on Friday and I'm praying

1:11:18

with every part of my body that it

1:11:20

does well, because then it kind of just

1:11:22

gives you momentum to get more looks

1:11:24

in. But I try not to put

1:11:27

too much pressure on myself. But that's like asking

1:11:30

England not to rain. It's just not going to happen.

1:11:33

Oh, vinylist, volume are

1:11:37

you listening to now?

1:11:54

You didn't like this. I

1:12:00

could hear you but it

1:12:03

looks good now. Grab

1:12:07

my ass

1:12:09

in the crowd, you're not alone.

1:12:14

I could hear you but it looks

1:12:17

good now. Grab

1:12:19

my ass in the crowd, you're not alone.

1:12:30

Search Engine is a presentation of Odyssey

1:12:32

and Jigsaw Productions. It was

1:12:34

created by me, Trudy Pernamaneni, and PJ

1:12:36

Vogt, and is produced by

1:12:38

Garrett Graham and Noah Jones, fact-checking by

1:12:41

Sean Merchant, theme, original

1:12:43

composition, and mixing by Armin Dzarian.

1:12:46

Our executive producers are Jenna Weiss Berman

1:12:48

and Leah Riesveden. Thanks to

1:12:50

the team at Jigsaw, Alex Gibney, Rich

1:12:53

Parello, and Dangit, and to the team

1:12:55

at Odyssey, J.D. Crowley,

1:12:57

Rob Morandi, Craig Cox, Eric

1:13:00

Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Casey

1:13:02

Morrokurin, Josephina Francis, Kirk Courtney,

1:13:05

and Hilary Shiff. Our

1:13:07

agent is Oren Rosenbaum at UTA. Our

1:13:09

social media is by the team at

1:13:11

Public Opinion NYC. Follow

1:13:13

and listen to Search Engine with PJ Vogt

1:13:16

now for free on the Odyssey app or

1:13:18

wherever you be on your podcast. Also,

1:13:20

if you would like to become a

1:13:22

paid subscriber and support the show, head

1:13:24

over to pjvogue.com. That's it for

1:13:26

this week. I'll see you next week.