0:00

Hi. It's Terry Gross, the host

0:03

of Fresh Air. We bring you

0:05

in depth long form interviews with

0:07

actors, directors, musicians, authors, journalists and

0:09

more. Listen to our Peabody Award

0:11

winning Fresh Air podcast from W

0:13

H Y Y an Npr. A

0:19

good morning. It's Patricia Murphy. It's

0:21

Friday. This is Seattle little this

0:23

week. Money is a construct apparently

0:25

popular Seattle grocery co op. P

0:27

C C has a request for

0:29

it's members. Please spend more money

0:31

A Pc. See if you've got

0:33

five million bucks. Despair you could

0:35

buy a brand new penthouse condo

0:37

on Third Avenue that comes with

0:39

the use of a luxury sports

0:41

car and bumper? She is back.

0:43

But where are all the Seattle

0:45

based headliners author and speaker Jody

0:47

and Period K U. A W Director

0:49

of Community Engagement Zeki Hamid are here to

0:52

break down the week. But first let's get

0:54

you caught up. It's

1:00

a big weekend for snow sports

1:02

in Washington. Yeah, it's the annual

1:04

ski to see race on Sunday.

1:06

Despite this year's unusually low snowpack,

1:08

teams of three to he greasers

1:10

will relay from Mount Baker to

1:12

Bellingham Bay with all manner of

1:14

transportation. If you're traveling up north

1:16

for Memorial Day, watch out for

1:18

traffic and if you're racing, best

1:20

of luck. Spray parks across the

1:22

city open up tomorrow. Just another

1:24

sign We're getting closer to summer.

1:26

There are eleven different spray parks

1:28

around the city and. They're open from

1:30

eleven am until eight pm daily until

1:33

early September. You might want to hold

1:35

off for a couple days though the

1:37

National Weather Service as we're in for

1:39

some rain tomorrow and Sunday before a

1:41

sunny Memorial Day and of the fifty

1:44

third Annual Northwest Folklife Festival is that

1:46

Seattle Center. This weekend they've got dance

1:48

and music performances and artists space and

1:50

even if community quilt tickets or donation

1:52

based so anyone can join in on

1:54

the fun. That's it for now. Make

1:57

sure to come back to Night for

1:59

evening headline. It

2:07

is Friday again. Hope you've got a few

2:09

days off for the long weekend. Jody

2:11

Ann Burry is here. She's an author and

2:13

speaker. Love it Jody Ann. Welcome

2:15

back. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Zeki

2:18

Hamid is here too. He's KUAW's Director of

2:21

Community Engagement. Hey Zeki, good to have

2:23

you. Hey, it's always a pleasure to be here. Yes,

2:25

awesome. So glad you're here. It

2:27

is almost summer, you two, even though it doesn't really

2:29

feel like it. But it also

2:31

means it's time for Seattle's big

2:34

slate of music festivals. Bumbershoot,

2:36

of course, the big headliner. It's

2:39

the second year for the festival

2:41

in its new revived format. Also

2:44

mandatory mention here. KUAW

2:46

is supported financially by Bumbershoot. Well

2:49

there you go. We

2:51

do have some interesting headliners like Pavement, which I

2:53

remember from the 90's, Cypress Hill,

2:56

James Blake, Courtney Barnett is here.

2:59

When I don't see our Pacific Northwest

3:01

bands. Yeah, you know with this

3:03

kind of lineup, this always just reminds me

3:05

of how out of touch I am. Because

3:07

I know Pavement, I've heard of Pavement, I

3:10

know Cypress Hill. I kid

3:12

you not, I don't know any other

3:14

bands on that entire lineup. Zeki Hamid,

3:16

really? Yeah, I don't. And to be

3:18

honest, neither do I care about. You're

3:20

a rocker. You're a rocker. I know,

3:22

but everything I listen

3:25

to is all from the 80's, 90's, maybe a

3:27

little bit into the 2000's and that's pretty much

3:30

where I draw the line. I'm going to see

3:32

Pearl Jam this month, so that's awesome. They're one

3:34

of my favorites. Oh, 90-92. Yeah,

3:36

they're still great bands. Not ripping on

3:38

you at all. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah,

3:40

so Bumbershoot, that's for the youngins out

3:43

there. For me, I'll

3:45

stay home. Oh, I'll second Zeki. I

3:49

had no name recognition for

3:51

any of the bands except for Cypress Hill.

3:53

I was like, wait, Cypress Hill? Like Cypress,

3:55

Cypress Hill? But besides that,

3:58

I'm like, you know, that's cute for the youngins. them

4:00

people who go you know congratulations I

4:02

did like scroll all the way down

4:04

and I saw Stephanie and Johnson

4:06

I'm like oof that voice so

4:09

if anybody wants to you know get me

4:11

a ticket the DMS are open yeah ticket

4:13

price is a little more expensive than we're

4:16

used to last year's were $50 a day

4:18

$85 for a weekend

4:21

pass now it's 70 and

4:23

125 for a full weekend but

4:25

of course you throw in food and

4:28

drink there that is a spendy day I just

4:30

walk around with chewing gum now defensive

4:35

planning exactly yeah yeah but I will

4:37

say with those prices I mean I

4:39

feel like it really does impact discoverability

4:42

like I remember when I first moved

4:44

here I went to folk life you

4:46

know the free festival okay let me

4:48

stroll through and that's how I met

4:50

a lot of local artists and different

4:52

types of music genres that I wasn't

4:54

exposed to but with prices like these

4:57

like I'm not gonna go unless in

4:59

those big bold letters like I know

5:01

at least three or four people oh yeah

5:04

the days of discovering

5:06

new bands for me are over now

5:08

what Spotify taking over the job of

5:10

discoverability you'll be nice to see that

5:13

in person well and honestly to your

5:15

point about discoverability this is supposed to

5:17

be the Pacific Northwest Seattle flair show

5:19

like this is supposed to be your

5:21

entree into Seattle bands and arts and

5:23

you know this is our festival but

5:26

maybe this is just who we are

5:28

now a really expensive place to live

5:30

and this is a indication of

5:32

that well yeah it is I

5:34

keep talking about how expensive

5:36

it is to be in Seattle

5:38

everything is expensive everything's expensive there

5:40

is nothing cheap anymore or even

5:42

remotely affordable and I think that

5:44

starts like this cost cycle right

5:47

so let's just take the festival for example

5:49

okay you want bigger names right so then

5:51

you got to get more money to bring

5:53

those people here right and so then the

5:55

cost of the tickets go up and Then

5:58

like it just kind of keeps feeding it. The

6:00

oven silly thing to more that we cater

6:02

to people who can. Afford this, you

6:04

know? No problem. And folks

6:06

who can are just completely shut

6:09

out from the cultural. See and

6:11

hear your a do wonder about local

6:13

bands and that people that live in

6:15

the area the it'll play a whole

6:17

lot of shows in the area. Then.

6:19

That's what things you know it. I mentioned prose

6:21

and I'm a huge fan. It's. So

6:24

rare when they play Seattle the be a

6:26

lot of these bands that I use like

6:28

from the My Knees. They do tour but

6:30

they don't play around here makayla more rarely

6:33

place around here and that so I don't

6:35

know what it is about local bands not

6:37

playing local scenes anymore. I mean at least

6:39

the big ones. An emerging artists

6:41

right is you? You need people

6:43

to come see your work? Yeah, right. If

6:46

you can't get people to come and see

6:48

your work at festivals like this that are

6:50

supposed to be authentic to the Seattle area

6:52

and we have a problem. We're not supporting

6:55

the artist class. Yeah, you know I

6:57

didn't know anything about Stephanie and Johnson. I

6:59

think I was going to something at the

7:01

Fremont Abbey and she was there and I

7:03

was like my god that blaze through and

7:06

then. See. Was gonna The voice

7:08

said I was like wait a second

7:10

know Isis and so unlike me and

7:12

I would love to see these local

7:14

artists more but he on cash is

7:16

not as insane file as I could

7:18

say that. Yes well again you know

7:20

maybe this says something about where we

7:23

live there. Are no cheap dates in

7:25

the city of Seattle? Sir? No dates.

7:31

Of all, right, well move and are

7:33

now. P. C C is making a

7:36

very simple request this week. Seattle's

7:38

most well known at grocery co

7:40

op. Would like it's customers to

7:42

spend more money at it. Stores

7:44

sales are apparently. Strong so far

7:46

this year, but are being outpaced

7:49

by wages in the collapse new

7:51

union contracts. it's according to the

7:53

Seattle Times. Chris Srinivasan. Wrote

7:55

in a letter to members recently we

7:58

asked you to consider strength and. Your

8:00

commitment. To Pc see your mark

8:02

the largest percentage. Of your grocery budget for.

8:04

The call off to meet P C C

8:07

The first stop on your grocery list. This

8:09

sounds a little bit like hiding. Inside

8:13

that suffer. And

8:16

as their members right on others the

8:19

of the boundary Gleason of Pcc? Yeah,

8:21

yeah. I mean this.

8:23

First of all, I don't really like

8:25

the narrative around it's fair wages and

8:28

that customers are holding the bag for

8:30

that. I think. keeping those two things

8:32

and close. Park Sydney's really dangerous.

8:35

Race to kind of breed this like. It's

8:37

a pleasure the unions why I have to

8:39

spend so much money on seizing us. I'm

8:41

playing bass but I will say this. You.

8:43

Know I do not have it for

8:46

of skill groceries. The from Philly know

8:48

like the last ten million dollars, office

8:50

sales of four hundred and thirty six

8:52

million or a like. I just don't

8:54

have it for you and I'm very

8:57

very weary of i'm companies that you

8:59

know, their co op Yes the use

9:01

that language may. Be that hard their structure

9:03

but they. Still function like corporations and

9:05

so you know I get really

9:07

anxious about pressing this know where

9:10

members and were co op. You

9:12

know you're not the farmers' market

9:14

around the way your major and

9:16

since he. Advocates is totally fair

9:18

for pieces he to ask their members

9:20

lucky you know com spend your dollars

9:23

here are it is a membership organization

9:25

the or you can buy into it

9:27

other but but the thing is it's

9:29

a specific class of people all talking

9:31

to each other move though is that

9:33

why that's why like it doesn't matter

9:35

to me I don't stop there. I'm

9:37

not part of that by other there

9:39

that you know to a certain class

9:41

talking to each other and is the

9:43

ducks the request they want to make.

9:45

I think it's it's totally true. While

9:48

grocery pricing as a whole is A

9:50

is a ring around here, right? and

9:52

P C C is easily one of

9:54

the most expensive places to do your

9:57

grocery shopping around here. Have never been,

9:59

have never. enter the PCC before. I love

10:01

that actually. I think PCC has a certain

10:03

smell to it that is

10:11

unto itself. I don't know what

10:13

it is but every time I walk into a

10:15

PCC it smells the same. Yeah, because when you're

10:18

operating at this class of grocery

10:20

shopping and I'm calling

10:23

to mind a lot of the dynamics

10:25

of the pandemic where the

10:27

people who were spending their money

10:29

at PCC were not necessarily the

10:31

people who were physically in

10:34

PCC. They will have

10:36

people of lower income bracket

10:38

who are working for in

10:40

the gig economy, Instacart, etc.

10:43

who are physically shopping in PCC

10:45

but not with their money. These

10:49

are disproportionately black and

10:51

brown people. Then

10:53

I experienced that where if I

10:56

go into a PCC people aren't

10:58

looking at me as a customer.

11:00

I'm just like the conduit of

11:02

someone else's purchases. Again,

11:05

using the language and the

11:07

ethos of your local farmers

11:10

market and having this major

11:12

entity hiding behind that language just feels

11:15

a little dicey for me. What

11:17

is the benefit of membership at

11:19

PCC? What are you

11:22

contributing to? They do have an

11:25

ethos about sustainability and food

11:27

waste for sure. Yeah, it's

11:29

hard to think about sustainability

11:32

when you are barely affording

11:34

the prices that are, whether

11:37

it's on PCC or any other

11:39

place. Yes,

11:41

I would love to buy my

11:44

food from local farmers

11:46

that have good sustainability practices but

11:48

it's really expensive. Anything,

11:52

whether it's eggs or milk or cheese,

11:54

whatever it is, it's really expensive. Sometimes

11:56

you kind of have to Not

11:59

really pay attention. Thanks into that because

12:01

and most people I think are

12:03

paying attention to the prices rather

12:05

than those practices so hit you

12:07

have to be in a certain

12:09

privileged class. The really? think about

12:11

the sustainable practices. that sucks. I

12:13

hate the numbers are supposed to

12:16

get a pay out each year

12:18

and. A. Dividend which is probably not the

12:20

point because it's probably. Not a lot

12:22

of money, even if you do spend a

12:24

lot, but they haven't be getting that benefit

12:26

recently because there are no profits. The Color

12:28

did take a hit like a lot of

12:30

businesses during the Pandemic arm, but some of

12:33

the financial issues also seemed. Kind of

12:35

self inflicted at this point because

12:37

in the mid twenty tends they

12:39

expanded into a lotta locations. I

12:41

wonder if something different would have

12:43

happened if the state small and

12:45

stay true to that small collapse

12:47

model? And. That's an unseen

12:49

you're here expanding rapidly phrase

12:51

and then asking consumers sees

12:54

invest a little bit more

12:56

because of your business practices,

12:59

right? Like a virtual up

13:01

for co op. Is.

13:03

Pc see like enlighten me on this

13:05

one. Blaze through I would do the

13:08

offer Certain foods that you can find.

13:11

Elsewhere, Pcc is a lovely shopping experience

13:13

if you have the money. If you

13:16

can, buy. Into. That situation, you know

13:18

their quality is there. I will say

13:20

that you you'll you'll get a good

13:22

quality. Product The Pcc All

13:24

Right Move and Aunts. If

13:26

you're looking at the Seattle skyline last week,

13:28

you may have seen. A one point

13:31

seven million dollar custom Mclaren sports

13:33

car dangling from a crane being

13:35

lowered onto a building. That's.

13:37

First night you to a new forty

13:39

eight storey condo building with units ranging

13:41

from less than a million. Of

13:43

very reasonable less than a million. For

13:45

a compact studio to five point

13:48

one million for the penthouse. Maybe.

13:50

Get a free Pcc membership with a

13:53

most part here though. Is easy by the

13:55

penthouse you get to use. the mclaren like anytime

13:57

he wants is for the i don't know

13:59

i I want to see the sign up sheet for that

14:01

thing. How

14:04

far advanced do you have to sign up to drive that thing?

14:06

No. And can you go

14:08

up against Hellcat guy in Belltown? I'm

14:10

not bringing Hellcat guy into this. All right, all right,

14:13

all right. It is a big gamble though for Third

14:15

Ave. I'm going to call this the

14:17

moneymaker episode because we're talking about

14:19

things that are just so far outside

14:21

my income bracket. I

14:24

don't even know where you would drive a $1.7 million

14:26

fourth car. Are

14:28

you driving it to PCC? Yeah. I

14:31

think they have parking. You

14:33

know, I do understand that the

14:36

city is trying to bring money

14:38

and revenue into downtown. They're

14:41

trying to bring people back into downtown.

14:43

They want downtown to be a neighborhood.

14:46

The question, and I don't even know

14:48

if it's a question at this point,

14:50

but like who, you know, who is

14:52

this neighborhood for is not me,

14:55

right? And so I just

14:57

don't understand

15:00

fully, you know, beyond

15:02

the money of it all, I

15:05

don't know if we would call it vibes, right? Because

15:07

it's like rich people do

15:10

not necessarily increase foot traffic. You

15:12

know, maybe they'll increase revenue, but they don't

15:14

necessarily increase foot traffic. And the more wealth,

15:17

a lot of studies have shown that the

15:19

more wealth someone has, the less attentive they

15:21

are to other people. They're also more likely

15:24

to like break traffic laws, for example. In

15:26

that McLaren. Exactly. In that McLaren and are

15:28

more likely to act in their own self-interest.

15:30

And so I don't really

15:33

understand what

15:35

the intention beyond revenue is

15:37

in terms of really having

15:40

a thriving downtown for the

15:42

city of Seattle. Yeah.

15:46

The story is just gross, to be honest.

15:48

I mean, a car that cost $1.7 million

15:50

is just beyond ridiculous. And

15:56

it's so showy and it's

15:58

so self-involved. I really

16:00

don't like any of that. The

16:02

condo price, yeah, sure, there are a lot

16:04

of condos that are super expensive, but it

16:06

makes me think about the

16:09

measure of a good city is

16:11

based on its public spaces and

16:13

transportation. How good of

16:15

transportation are you providing and how good are

16:18

your public spaces for the people that live

16:20

in the entire city? And

16:23

we're improving public transportation, a lot

16:25

of good public spaces, but downtown,

16:29

I don't see it downtown. And

16:31

it looks really awful. You have

16:33

this 48-story building, super, super rich

16:35

with this $1.7 million car that

16:37

you could use

16:41

and that's all the way at the top, right?

16:44

And all the way at the bottom, you have

16:46

all of these problems with drug use and poverty.

16:48

I mean, it just looks like Gotham all of

16:50

a sudden. I mean, is

16:52

Bruce Wayne going to get that car? It

16:57

certainly is a juxtaposition of where we are.

17:00

But I see this kind of thing

17:02

in other cities as well. New York City is a

17:04

good example of where extreme wealth lives alongside

17:06

extreme poverty. But New York City has like

17:08

9 million people and we don't even have

17:10

a million. We can't compare ourselves to

17:13

New York. Maybe that's why it's so obvious here. Maybe

17:15

that is why it is so obvious and this thing

17:17

seems so ridiculous. Even

17:20

given the fact that the city is trying

17:22

to brush up the waterfront and all this

17:24

great stuff is going to

17:26

be available to all

17:28

the people in that area. I said this probably

17:30

4,000 times on this

17:33

show is that Seattle has big

17:35

city aspirations and small

17:37

city infrastructure. Yeah, exactly. So

17:39

we're talking about, oh, this place

17:41

is cheaper than New York and cheaper than

17:43

Dubai. I'm like, Seattle, eight, New York or

17:46

Dubai? Welcome

17:48

to the neighborhood first light, people.

17:50

We will see you in the

17:52

streets. Alright, moving on

17:54

to our next topic. It is Memorial Day weekend,

17:57

which means it's the unofficial start of summer. King

17:59

County. Spray parks are opening up tomorrow.

18:01

Fire pits are open at Alki Beach

18:04

and Golden Gardens starting today. Summer

18:06

can get crazy in the Seattle area, but

18:09

let's do a little dreaming. In an ideal

18:11

world, what are the things you want to

18:13

do with your Seattle summer? Oh, nothing.

18:18

I'm staying home in my backyard and

18:20

I'm good. I'll tell you, my favorite

18:23

summer day seriously is just going to a

18:25

Sounders game or a rain game and then

18:28

come back to some really nice peace and

18:30

quiet with good weather. Alright. That's it. I'm

18:32

a simple person. Very simple person there, Zeki.

18:35

Love that. I am not a hiker. I

18:37

do not enjoy it, but I

18:39

am getting more into forest

18:41

bathing. What is that? You

18:44

know, you're just... Hiking. In

18:47

the forest bathing,

18:49

you know? And so I am

18:51

looking forward to exploring the area.

18:54

Very easy nature

18:56

trail, you know, outside of

18:58

Seattle proper and just like

19:00

really just taking those

19:02

birds, chirping at forest, just

19:05

drenching my body and my mind. Like, that's what

19:07

I need. Well, if your dream is to stay

19:10

local at Alki or Golden Gardens past 10, you're

19:12

out of luck. They're shutting that down a

19:14

little earlier for the third straight year.

19:16

Seattle Parks closing those to try

19:18

to cut down on crime and honestly,

19:21

it gets a little hairy after 10. Yeah.

19:24

I have family friends, what

19:26

we call family members that live in

19:28

West Seattle just across the street

19:30

from, you know, the sport walk and everything like

19:32

that. And it

19:35

gets so loud and obnoxious at

19:37

night. So, I mean, I could

19:39

never live in a place like

19:41

that. It's just loud people, loud

19:43

music, loud everything. Yeah. I don't

19:45

know if I buy what

19:48

they say about crime and increasing crime and stuff

19:50

like that, but personally, I am annoyed by all

19:52

of that noise and all of that. So I

19:54

want nothing to do. It's not about crime. It's

19:57

about shutting down fun. All right.

19:59

Yeah. The economy very clear of where?

20:01

Where am? I. Would say this if you're

20:03

gonna live near of these it comes as

20:05

noise. Like when people get frustrated about noise

20:07

on what we do Live in a city

20:09

no ads are population increases in the area,

20:11

people have to get used to. Noise.

20:14

Is hearing other people again? People are

20:16

always comparing sales and York New York

20:18

is noisy. Guide is very uneasy and

20:20

sell. you know we won't We can't

20:22

have art, suburban and kind of living

20:25

and then have the level of density

20:27

as we do as a major city

20:29

are my. Also I don't buy the

20:31

crime scene at all. You know rules

20:33

like these are just for keeping honest

20:35

people honest. We know if you want

20:37

to hang out in the news anyway,

20:40

you're gonna be on the bees. I

20:42

don't know, I'm actually curious. If there

20:44

were any like public health. Scholars or

20:46

experts who are part. Of this

20:49

decision making but has when we're talking

20:51

about crime. Having these

20:53

free public spaces like parks actually

20:55

increases community ties, support people's mental,

20:57

physical and emotional health and all

20:59

of that is what reduces crimes

21:02

and know clothing parts in our

21:04

early is giving. it's like very

21:06

Adnan Be policy. No, not my

21:08

back yard like these things are

21:10

gonna happen for just under one

21:12

happen on city property and then

21:14

as I was kind of scrolling

21:17

through on the more violent crimes

21:19

that have happened to me spaces

21:21

like shooting some people. Have died

21:23

Last year. there was a shooting at

21:25

a Golden Gardens and that happened in

21:27

the middle of the afternoon. That's a

21:29

really good point. This is a pilot

21:31

program. Important to say that they are

21:33

going to be looking at exactly what

21:35

you said Jody and whether or not

21:37

this has been and effective tactic. Here's

21:39

the way I see this right. It

21:41

gives the cops. An opportunity

21:43

to get in there and start moving

21:45

people along an hour before they would

21:47

have to do it. Shifting everything Know

21:50

us in our earlier right. I see

21:52

it as like are processing first Spd

21:54

like they're just trying to has been.

21:57

And I also was into the scanner a lot. As

22:00

a hobby? As a hobby, I do.

22:03

And can confirm it gets spicy and

22:05

it's not really about crime.

22:07

It's just about volume

22:09

of people and interaction. Yeah, exactly. It gets rowdy.

22:12

I mean, it's just so, you know, Jody, I

22:14

didn't mention the NIMBY thing. Maybe I'm guilty of

22:16

that too. Because I was like, man, I'm just

22:18

trying to get people, but I don't live anywhere

22:21

near a beach. So, but if

22:23

you want to attract, or if you want

22:25

to decrease crime, you need to attract families

22:27

and have it to be as family friendly

22:29

as possible, right? You have to provide things

22:31

there that families are going to be attracted

22:33

to. Get a bunch of ice cream carts

22:36

or, you know, sell those things

22:38

that light up all over the place or

22:40

whatever, corn on the cob, stuff like that.

22:42

Make it family friendly and you'll cut down

22:44

on, you know, the hijinks. Yeah. All

22:46

right, you two. One last thing before we go.

22:49

I hit five lotto ticket worth $440,000 purchased in Bellevue

22:51

expired on Tuesday. We

22:57

did some digging, found out the ticket

22:59

was never claimed. The director of the

23:01

Washington Lottery encouraged everyone to check their

23:04

pockets, their glove boxes or anywhere else

23:06

they might have stashed their ticket to

23:08

come claim the prize. This

23:10

would be me. I'm just going to say this is,

23:13

I am the girl who would

23:15

find the lottery ticket two days late. You

23:18

know, I want to believe that I wouldn't lose it, but

23:20

I will say this. I found a

23:22

check in my glove compartment the other

23:24

day that had expired, you know, two

23:27

years ago and I'm like for

23:29

a significant amount of money. I know. And

23:32

I'm like scrolling through my banking

23:34

information like, wait, did I deposit this? Did

23:36

I deposit this? Was this a remote deposit?

23:38

I did deposit it, thank God. But

23:41

I think that is the evidence, despite my

23:43

desire to be a better person that I

23:45

probably would also lose a lottery ticket.

23:50

That's like life changing money. It

23:54

is a life changing money. What would you do with it? Pfft.

23:58

Well, first thing I'd do is pay off the debt. Then

24:00

I joined PCC. I'm

24:02

going to put a down payment on

24:04

McLaren. We are leaving it

24:06

there. Jody Amburi is an

24:08

author and speaker and Zeki Hamid

24:11

is KOW's director of community engagement.

24:13

Thanks you two. Thanks so much. Thank you.

24:16

Thanks for listening to Seattle Now and

24:18

thanks to the generous listeners who support

24:20

this show. Today's episode was produced by

24:23

Von Jones. It was edited by Caroline

24:25

Chamberlain Gomez. Our production team

24:27

also includes Claire McGrain, Andy Hurst

24:29

and Paige Browning. Greg Kramer does

24:32

our theme music. Seattle Now and

24:34

KUOW Public Radio are members of the

24:36

NPR Network. I'm Patricia Murphy. See you

24:38

soon.