0:06

Hey and welcome to another episode

0:08

of Served , a special recap

0:11

edition In real

0:13

time . I just finished watching the

0:15

phenomenal final with Carlos

0:17

Alcaraz beating Sasha

0:20

Zverev in five sets . I'm going to go out on a limb and say

0:22

that this soccer-ass kid is going to have quite

0:26

the career in tennis . Coming

0:29

up right now we have my good

0:31

friend , kim Kleisters . Then later in the show , john

0:34

Wertheim is going to drop some knowledge on us . Any

0:36

fan who consumes media

0:39

has to check out John Wertheim's 50

0:41

Parting Thoughts from every Grand Slam the ins

0:43

and outs . So we'll get the full two-week

0:45

macro view with John Wertheim's 50 parting

0:47

thoughts from every Grand Slam the ins and outs

0:49

. So we'll get the full two-week macro view with John Wertheim

0:52

coming up . Always has some interesting points . But

0:54

since it's finals weekend , let's bring in someone who has played in finals and been a champion on many of these weekends

0:56

. Friend of the show and friend of

0:58

mine , kim Kleisters

1:00

, is with us . How's it going , kim ? Where are you

1:02

?

1:03

Thanks for having me again . I am in

1:05

a meeting room in a hotel in Antwerp . Was

1:09

in Paris for a few days and going

1:11

to visit my family and my friends

1:14

and have a wedding my

1:16

cousin's getting married so good time to

1:18

be back .

1:19

I was about to say I thought you were already married .

1:23

Yes , a long time ago .

1:25

Not your wedding . Uh , apparently , um

1:28

, talk to me a little bit . Let's get right into

1:30

to Roland Garros and let's start with uh

1:32

, iga's fiance and and

1:34

kind of what we're seeing and she is quickly

1:36

going from , um , you know

1:38

, wins her first tournament ever . Uh

1:40

, in the 2020 edition of of

1:42

Roland Garros , and it's one of those kind of Guga

1:44

Quirten moments where someone breaks through on

1:47

such a grand stage is going okay , is this

1:49

someone who is going

1:51

to be a top 10 player , like

1:54

, let's say , like an Ostapenko when she broke through , or

1:56

is she going to be a top five ? And now the conversation

1:59

is is she going to be one of the best

2:01

players of all time ? You

2:03

know , you're looking at where she stands , with career

2:05

slams now at five

2:07

, tied with Sharapova , passing great champions

2:09

like Lindsay Davenport , like yourself

2:12

, kind of on the way to the history

2:14

books now with her fourth Roland Garros title , tying

2:17

your countrywoman , justine Enna . But

2:19

just give me your quick thoughts on on her dominance

2:22

and what you see .

2:24

I mean , it doesn't seem like there's anything that can stop her , especially

2:26

on this surface right now no , um

2:28

, I also think her mindset is definitely

2:30

one of um , where she

2:32

wants to be one of the greatest you

2:34

know players out there and she wants to win every grand

2:36

slam she plays and and she thinks she

2:38

can . I think grass is going to be her toughest

2:41

surface because of her a little bit more of an

2:43

extreme grip . But , um , just

2:45

her like a few years ago I think I met her for the first

2:47

time at Wimbledon and had a like a chance

2:49

to chat like with her , and she

2:51

has such an open mind to learn , like

2:54

she wants to improve . She takes , like she talks

2:56

to everybody right like past players , past champions

2:58

, like doesn't matter , like generations , like from way

3:01

before , like you know previous , from the last

3:03

one , and she is such an observer

3:05

, like she wants to learn and um , it's

3:08

yeah , she's improving all

3:10

the time and and so her mindset is that she

3:12

, you know , wants to be one of the great ones

3:14

and and I think everybody kind of penciled

3:16

her in to win the tournament , uh , before

3:19

the draw was even made , and , um , I think

3:21

that little little second round there , the

3:23

big matchup against osaka , was to me one of the

3:25

best matches of the tournament . So , yeah

3:27

, she came close to losing that one , which is , you

3:29

know , for Osaka , a great kind of the

3:32

first kind of big moment

3:35

for her since she came back from having her daughter

3:37

and where she could test herself a

3:39

little bit , and so it was good to see that

3:41

matchup . And but yeah , iga

3:44

is very impressive and she reminds me a

3:46

lot of Justine as well when she's playing . She

3:48

has that determination Maybe not her playing

3:50

style or her technique , but there's

3:52

that determination the way she

3:54

walks out there , maybe the hat , that whole kind

3:56

of vibe . It feels

3:58

like Justine out there .

4:01

Well , their Roland Garros records certainly

4:03

match up together

4:05

now and let's get back to . I want

4:07

to kind of take a glimpse forward for Osaka

4:10

here in a second . But I'm glad you kind of mentioned

4:13

the

4:15

student side of Iga

4:18

last year . So

4:21

she had already had success , already won Roland Garros a couple of times

4:23

, and

4:29

when she first won Roland Garros it was largely by virtue of movement , a big spin mechanism on

4:31

the forehand side . But it wasn't like this smothering

4:33

aggression that we're seeing

4:35

now , right when she steps , just kind

4:38

of sets herself up two feet inside the court on second

4:40

serves and then doesn't let anyone up

4:42

for air . It just feels like you're smothered and she

4:44

is inside the court . It's not a traditional

4:47

clay court specialist where they need

4:49

space and they kind of drop back . Even Carlos

4:51

Alcaraz in the final was four feet

4:53

further back than he normally is , which is

4:55

maybe just in front of where Rafa has been for the last

4:57

20 years . But

4:59

someone asked her about it and she said oh well , I just know to

5:02

play well more consistently . She wasn't happy

5:04

with just being a slam winner . To be dominant

5:06

I have to be aggressive and it's like man

5:14

, from where I sit I'm going . Okay , that's a really nice thing to be able to do , to just decide

5:16

that you're going to be aggressive and have it work pretty quickly , but

5:18

kind of explain to everyone as you're going

5:20

through the process and as you went through through your career

5:22

. You were someone who obviously had a ton of

5:24

success from a very young age , right

5:26

you , you kind of went on the tour and there wasn't much of an

5:28

adjustment period . You were , you know , pretty good

5:30

right away , um , but

5:33

what have you seen as far as Iga goes with

5:35

the adjustments , how is her game better now than it

5:37

was three years ago when she was already , um

5:39

, you know , a two-time , uh , grand

5:41

Slam champion ?

5:42

yeah , I think you mentioned it all . I think , just

5:44

watching her play live even , it's

5:47

so impressive the way that she just stands , if

5:49

not on top of the baseline , like inside the court

5:51

, right with the backhand too , like she

5:53

hits those , those backhand returns where she , you

5:56

know , likes to go for the down the line . Surprise the

5:58

opponent . Like she takes the balls so

6:00

early now , which is something that I hadn't

6:02

maybe not noticed as much in

6:05

the past , especially here on this surface . So

6:08

definitely , definitely put a lot of work

6:10

in , like she . She's always been a good mover , but now

6:12

she's kind of

6:14

not giving her opponents the time

6:16

to kind of work their way into

6:19

the point right to try and be dominant

6:21

first , and she's the one that's really trying

6:23

to take on their opponents early on , and that's a big change . I think that she's the one that's really trying

6:25

to take on their opponents early on , and that's a big change . I think that she's made and

6:27

I'm sure it's taken some time to kind of get

6:29

used to that , but it's , I

6:32

think , especially with you know , unless you

6:34

have a game like , let's say , a Sabalenka or

6:37

Rybakina , where you can kind of hit like

6:39

through her with a lot of power . No saga

6:41

with

6:46

a lot of power , no saga . Um , yeah , I think she's going to , you know , have a

6:48

fairly easy . She has no weakness like she , she , her matches are all pretty

6:50

, you know , straightforward . Nobody really troubles

6:53

her . So it's , it's , um , unless

6:55

you can like kind of hit her off the court

6:57

, I think , um , yeah , she's not going to have any

6:59

any problems with anybody .

7:01

Really , yeah , I think there are similarities to

7:03

rafa in that regard , where you didn't see

7:05

rafa lose a lot of matches when someone

7:07

didn't have something to kind

7:09

of take control to make him react to right

7:11

. Like I would play him on hard and I knew I could come in on the first

7:13

server at least . It wouldn't work all the time and

7:15

you know , I was kind of 50 50

7:18

on hard courts but at least I had something that he couldn't

7:20

control . Right , it feels like the rhythm

7:22

off too right like you , yeah , like that's

7:24

such a .

7:25

Is that that routine and trying to stay

7:27

in charge of the points , and it's , it's , it's . It's

7:29

such a mental thing too right for her to

7:31

step in inside of the baseline for the return

7:33

. It starts with the mindset , like it starts

7:35

with your mind to try and be , you

7:38

know , aggressive and and you know attack

7:40

as soon as you can and um , but

7:42

yeah , it's , it's , um's , it's um

7:45

. Yeah , you did it . I mean , of course it's it's . You know , if you

7:47

can have a big serve , you need the big weapons . Now you

7:49

know to be players like that .

7:51

The other thing that is non-negotiable . As

7:53

I'm watching , uh , tennis

7:55

these days and I was someone who was kind

7:58

of a clunky foot mover Like I was . I

8:00

was physical and I was big and I would kind of

8:02

hustle my way , but I wasn't like a fluent mover

8:04

. You were obviously a great mover

8:06

and kind of invented this split situation

8:08

that we see every player capable of doing

8:10

now . But two things that I see as an adjustment

8:13

and it's weird and I have so much

8:15

admiration for it and you mentioned it is that two

8:17

things that Iga is doing even better , and I don't know

8:19

if they work in lockstep . I suspect they might

8:21

. A

8:25

couple of years ago she would kind of drift and try to get those forehands

8:27

and really kind of try to control it . Now she's taking

8:29

the backhand straight on and able to create

8:31

an angle cross court even when she's pretty

8:34

much middle right . So it's kind of similar

8:36

to Andre later in his career where

8:38

he would set up shop and he would take the ball on whatever

8:40

side it came and distribute . But

8:42

what it's done is it's taken

8:44

away the ability to expose ego line

8:47

even more right If she's not giving

8:49

up the space , and then she hits one a little spinny

8:51

and then someone takes her line . She used to kind of have

8:53

to recover from that . She's shrinking the court

8:55

even more by virtue of her backhand getting

8:58

better and she's able to create like I

9:01

watched her a million times in this tournament where

9:03

someone would hit it basically straight onto the backhand . It's

9:05

hard to create angles when you're not presented with an

9:07

angle generally , for for kind of those tennis fans

9:10

out there , she's taking it maybe a foot

9:12

left of the hash mark and the

9:14

next ball that her opponent is hitting is outside

9:17

of the , the sideline right . Her , her

9:19

ability to shrink the court that way , and also

9:21

when she moves , moving

9:23

is is she's not like I don't think she would win a sprinting

9:26

contest against everyone on tour , but

9:28

I think the way that she is kind of efficient with her

9:30

movement , she is sliding , she is hitting

9:32

and then at the end of the slide she's already

9:34

a foot back towards the center Right

9:36

and it's all done in this one fluid motion which

9:38

which makes me want to vomit with jealousy

9:41

, like it just is , is it's just this insane

9:43

thing . And

9:45

also I of vomit with jealousy , like it just is . It's just this insane thing . And also I'm

9:47

not going to deal from a place of being hyperbolic . I think she has some of the best footwork

9:49

from the middle of the court I've ever seen

9:51

in my life work is incredible .

9:53

Hearing it on the clay too , like hearing

9:55

it live , was so

9:57

impressive . Like you can hear . You know , when you're playing

10:00

on a hard could you can hear the squeaking right of like

10:02

alcarez at the us open . Like it's super impressive

10:04

to hear him like run around the forehand and then

10:06

run to the drop shot and run back and stop

10:08

and and slide at times . But egon

10:11

, clay , it's like , yeah

10:14

, it's , it's like all the little small steps and then

10:16

you , you hear the power when she pushes off . Like

10:18

it's , it's a . It was really really impressive

10:20

to see and watch . And what I also think

10:22

is is makes it really hard for the opponents against

10:25

her that her grip and her technique

10:27

is a little bit more like unconventional and hard

10:29

to read . But she has , you know , her

10:31

backhand is harder to read , like I just

10:33

find it like she's just able to change directions

10:36

, like without

10:38

, you know , with a lot of players you know how you can anticipate

10:40

kind of , yeah , like that's going to go cross court or this

10:42

one . Like with her it's so hard to read

10:44

, um , whether it is the , the more extreme

10:46

grip at the forehand or the backhand , that's a little bit closer

10:48

to her body , like it's a . It's a tough

10:50

like tough technique to read is

10:53

that ?

10:53

is that , especially on clay , just because she has

10:55

enough time to kind of like I

10:57

always say the great ones they're able to like kind of hold you in

11:00

position .

11:00

They can almost wait like a quarter of a second longer to where

11:02

you're stuck , and then all of a sudden

11:04

they've got you to where you're in a neutral

11:07

position and then they can kind of distribute either way

11:09

yeah , because our sport , like a lot of times I

11:11

feel like with me too , like there's a lot of anticipation

11:13

, right , and kind of patterns that your opponents , kind

11:15

of that you can read after a while and and

11:18

um , I feel like with her , yeah , it's

11:20

um , on clay , it's it's the

11:22

directions that she is able to , even last

11:24

second , like hit that backhand , you know , return

11:26

down the line , or like like a short cross

11:28

court , when it's the variety like

11:30

there's no , yeah , there's so much variety

11:33

that gives , yeah , she doesn't give her opponents any

11:35

rhythm either . So really

11:37

impressive , like the way that she's grown and and you

11:40

know , as an , as a , as a player , she

11:43

hasn't changed much tech , like technique wise

11:45

, but just tactically , like she's really adjusted

11:47

her , her game tremendously .

11:49

Yeah , and she I mean I the

11:51

way that she's like , she's taken like bits and pieces

11:54

from it feels like

11:56

different players , right .

11:57

I mentioned .

11:57

I mentioned the Andre comparison . The way she

12:00

kind of sits on second serves now and just I

12:02

feel like her opponents are just picking that

12:04

first ball up off their feet from the middle

12:06

of the court , like she has that Novak thing where Novak's the

12:08

master of putting a second serve

12:10

on your shoe , tops right to where you don't

12:12

have an angle . You have to play back up to him and

12:15

then all of a sudden he can distribute the

12:17

way that he wants . Uh , the movement

12:19

kind of that , that , that kind of circle c movement

12:21

where you're you're not kind of moving around that half

12:23

court from the middle of the court looks a lot

12:25

like someone like a Rafa . You mentioned

12:28

the intensity of Justine and I . It's just , it's

12:30

just fun to see when

12:32

someone has success and they get

12:34

to kind of the pinnacle of being a grand

12:36

slam champion , being number one in the world

12:38

, and then it's like okay , that

12:41

just means I need to find other

12:43

ways to improve , right , and I just give

12:45

her so much credit

12:48

for that .

12:49

We're seeing the result right . Of that open mindset

12:51

of like work , starting years

12:53

ago right , where she absorbs from everybody . When

12:55

she talks to whoever , it is like it's

12:58

she , yeah , male , female , everybody

13:00

. She talks to everybody and learns from the mental

13:02

side of the sport , the tactical side of it

13:04

, everything . And there's , and there's , you know . You

13:06

know too , like there's . So many players are so stuck

13:09

in their , in their normal routines and like

13:11

changes scare them , like they don't , they

13:13

don't want to have an open mind to like you know , try

13:15

to take on a new coach who says this , or try to

13:17

like no , let's just stick to the same same kind of

13:19

practice patterns all the time and

13:22

same routines and um , but with ego

13:24

, it's , you know , it's trial and error and

13:26

um , and you know , and you , you

13:28

always take some good things

13:30

in your backpack and you use it on the court

13:32

and you , you , yeah , I mean that's , you know

13:35

, that's how you improve all the time I

13:37

would imagine those trials are easier

13:39

to jump into when they normally work out for you

13:41

like you just decide you're going to be aggressive

13:43

and win uh more , yeah

13:46

, um , I have an hour hit

13:48

on the on the red clay . I was kind of inspired

13:50

. I haven't played on red clay in like forever so I was

13:52

like , okay , let's you know , it's nice out here in belgium today

13:54

. So we kind of booked a court in like a local club

13:56

here in antwerp and my first

13:58

10 minutes on clay they were

14:01

horrendous . I couldn't move , I was sliding

14:03

everywhere and then it kind of

14:05

felt like , okay , this is getting better , but

14:08

it was , yeah , it's very

14:10

, very tough .

14:14

I love that you're telling that story because inevitably

14:16

anytime there's like you watch

14:18

a great match I remember like

14:21

watching Alcaraz Djokovic last

14:23

year and then you're driving around town like an hour later

14:25

and public court is full right , like everyone's

14:27

like oh I want to go play . This is so cool , and I just

14:29

imagine kim doing the same thing , uh we

14:32

did it before the match , but no , but it's .

14:34

I was at the french open and I saw like the perfect

14:36

clay courts . Oh man , it would

14:38

be nice to play some dingles or

14:40

something you know I'm

14:43

telling you I'm waiting .

14:43

I got a dingles game ready for I'm like , by the

14:45

way , those .

14:46

You have belgian beers like cans sitting

14:48

behind you , or what is uh what ? What is that there

14:51

?

14:51

oh gosh well you know what ?

14:52

I'm glad you asked . This is actually an olipop kim

14:54

. I don't know if you've . I don't know if you've had them before

14:56

oh yeah , prebiotics

14:58

the low sugar .

14:59

the whole situation likes those . Yeah , your daughter likes

15:01

them . Great , wow

15:03

, I think we get them at Costco

15:05

. I think we buy the .

15:08

They're available in most places .

15:10

Yeah .

15:11

You're like a sponsor's dream right now , Kim . Fantastic

15:14

Way to go with that one . A little

15:16

bonus coverage for Olipop

15:18

, okay . So all praise to Iga . That's

15:20

it . Let's talk about a couple of

15:22

other names , and

15:41

I specifically want to get your opinion on the golf . Sviatik situation I went on about at length

15:43

in our last show , just about how I feel , like I'm watching it and can relate , because I spent , you know

15:45

, the better part of a decade not losing to a lot of people , except for Roger Um , you know , and I felt

15:47

like I was obsessed with that matchup and trying to figure it out , and often at the expense of the rest

15:49

of my game . Um , so I want to kind of ask you about that . But let's just talk

15:51

quickly , uh , about uh Perlini

15:53

and Drava and anyone else that stood out to you

15:56

. Uh , this , this tournament

15:58

. I didn't see uh Perlini

16:00

making this final coming in . She

16:07

was kind of . She didn't have great results on clay , which was surprising because she had played so well

16:09

early in the year , winning a masters 1000 in Dubai , getting to a career high ranking . Uh , what impressed

16:11

you about her ? And then also , uh in Draven , what do you see for

16:13

her going forward ?

16:15

I met Paulini um a few years

16:17

ago I think it was about three years ago

16:19

and to me , her energy

16:21

, like she has , like

16:23

she's like Alcaraz in a sense , where she loves

16:26

being out there , like she plays , she's smiling

16:28

, she's working hard , she's in the gym , she's having fun

16:30

and , you know , I almost

16:32

feel like that kind of mindset will eventually

16:35

get you to , you know , to I

16:37

don't know if it's to have a little bit of luck with the draw

16:39

have you know , like , like , grow as a , as an athlete

16:42

, like it's . So I feel like the

16:44

energy that she brought out there . She has

16:46

gotten more and more confidence . Obviously

16:48

, winning in Dubai was huge for her

16:50

, but she's a very short

16:53

player , not the most powerful

16:55

one , but

17:01

her energy is something that really stood out for me . She walks

17:03

around almost like remember Sibulkova back

17:05

in the day . You know like on her toes

17:07

, kind of like jumping around like high energy

17:10

and a lot of players are , yeah , they

17:12

it , I don't know . They feel that on the , on the

17:14

other side of the net at times too , and it like

17:16

, kind of like pushes their energy down

17:18

a little bit . I feel like , or , um , and

17:21

so that's something that I really like noticed

17:23

and um , and even at the french , like okay , the

17:25

final wasn't was , it wasn't a close

17:27

match , but she , like , was

17:29

just enjoying every second

17:31

that she was out there and and smiling and

17:33

laughing to her like her team and during

17:36

the games , and it's something alcaraz has too

17:38

like it's a enjoying their moment

17:40

that they're out there and um , I mean , andrea

17:42

, that's fun to watch . To me I'm . I'm telling you like

17:44

the best tennis that I saw

17:46

was maybe unexpected , but

17:49

coming from Naomi Osaka's racket Just

17:51

being able to , you know , shows really good tennis

17:54

on clay , which you know I think she's been pretty

17:56

open about that not being her favorite

17:58

surface , but really , really good tennis

18:01

. And she's playing in Rosemarlin

18:03

this week , playing against Elise Burns tomorrow

18:05

, so another kind of tough first round

18:07

for both . So , yeah , just interesting

18:10

to see how she'll be

18:12

preparing for the grass

18:14

courts .

18:15

It's interesting because I mean you said

18:17

it . It's not like we have low expectations

18:20

for her on clay because it's your least favorite

18:22

service and she's coming back . She wasn't great on clay

18:24

when she was the best player in the world .

18:26

No , no , and she expressed it too right that she didn't

18:28

like like the surface and the

18:30

movement . I had decent results on clay

18:33

but I was not like , I didn't feel

18:35

my best , like it wasn't the way that I like

18:37

to play , it wasn't my natural kind of movement

18:39

and um . So , yeah

18:42

, I remember back in the day thinking like

18:44

, oh , maria won the french open . Like she's

18:47

not a natural clay quarter , right , she's

18:49

not a . So so you can learn from

18:51

those kind of situations and players and ostapenko

18:53

and the harder hitters these days

18:56

, like we've seen the players complain about um

18:58

, today too , like alcarez was complaining about

19:00

, you know , the courts feeling like a hard court

19:02

, like it was was , yeah

19:05

, it's definitely . The courts are not

19:07

as heavy as they used to be , I think

19:09

, when we used to play back in the day .

19:11

Yeah , and I always explain it

19:13

, I think and I'm curious to hear your take on this

19:15

, and if it's just me trying

19:17

to find an excuse for my lack of relevance

19:19

at Roland Garros but I felt like the

19:22

clay there is

19:25

finer . It's kind of softer Like

19:27

when you rub most clay it feels like salt . When you rub

19:29

Roland Garros it feels like baking powder a

19:31

little bit like a powder yeah . I feel like it

19:33

exposes not

19:35

fluent movers more than any

19:38

other other tournament . Like you can made

19:40

the semis of Rome a couple of times like oh , this is it

19:42

, I can play . Like let's , you know , let's make a run

19:44

. Then you get there and I felt like I was just kind of slip

19:46

sliding everywhere . I think it was especially prominent

19:48

, uh , during this Roland Garros , because

19:50

of the rain and having to water it a certain

19:52

way when you go indoors and then all of a sudden it got

19:54

really sunny and there wasn't really like

19:56

much back and forth , it was like rain , rain

19:59

, rain , rain , rain , sunshine , which I think

20:01

, to give at least a little bit of

20:03

a break to the grounds crew , which is the best on earth

20:05

. It's not as if they don't know how to prepare a court at

20:07

Roland Garros . I think that switch , along with having

20:10

to prepare a court for indoor play

20:12

versus all

20:14

outdoors , I think that actually makes

20:17

a massive difference . As we talk

20:19

about Osaka moving forward , when

20:22

I saw her in Indian

20:25

Wells , Miami , and it's not as if she made final

20:27

or had some massive run , but

20:29

just the way that the ball was coming off the racket

20:31

she was making more errors than she did

20:33

in her prime , but her winners

20:35

were again kind of

20:37

turning people into mannequins , right , she used to

20:39

have this ability where when she would kind of get

20:42

on her front foot and really take control of a rally

20:44

, people wouldn't move , they would get winners hit

20:46

and it was like they were standing still . And

20:48

I saw that and play a little bit in Miami and

20:50

Indian Wells again and I went on uh

20:52

, tc live and said I

20:54

think she wins a major again and she hasn't won

20:56

three matches in a row . But I just , with

20:59

the way that she , the amount that she's playing

21:01

, if she gets the reps in , I love how

21:03

much she's committing to her schedule

21:05

. She's playing more than she ever has . Like it's , it's

21:07

, it's , it's crazy , but am I nuts

21:09

for thinking that she could be on the short list

21:11

of favorites already for when the hardcore

21:14

season comes around ?

21:15

No , I agree , Especially after that last

21:17

match against Iga . Um , I feel like that's

21:19

where I was like , okay , this is the best that I've seen her play

21:22

. I was in the stands when

21:24

she lost to Elise Mertens from

21:26

Belgium in Indian Wells . There

21:29

was a lot of on first errors . They were mostly

21:31

still kind of on the wider side of the court

21:33

, right , the movement being able to come back Like there

21:35

was a little late at times , but when

21:37

she was behind the ball it was so good there

21:39

was , you know , the serve at times was incredible

21:41

. So

21:46

, yeah , yeah , and at the fringe I feel like she was really , you know , she had , okay , in a situation

21:49

she had nothing to lose to lose . Iga's the big

21:51

favorite . So she's , she was , um , yeah

21:54

, just going , going for it and and

21:56

but I I do think that she even on

21:58

wimbledon , I think like she can , you

22:00

know , with that serve and and with that first kind

22:02

of you know , the first two shots of the rally are

22:04

going to be so important there and she's so good at that

22:07

, right , the return , the serve is

22:09

very good . So , yeah

22:11

, I'm interested to see how she will . She went

22:13

to train in Mallorca to , you know , on

22:15

the grass courts to prepare . So

22:17

she was there already , like since she lost and at

22:20

the French . So

22:25

definitely committed , focused to , yeah , to try to get that

22:27

slam and I think , why

22:29

not Wimbledon ? You know , like , I think

22:32

she can . Definitely she has the , definitely has the

22:34

weapons and if she's fit enough , which she is like after

22:36

coming back from from having a baby , it takes

22:38

time to get your body back and

22:40

to get physically strong enough to recover

22:42

matches . You know to have a few matches

22:44

in a row and she um , yeah

22:47

, she's definitely um close to

22:49

to her her best again .

22:51

We still have to . One of the things that the

22:53

only pushback I would have is we

22:55

still haven't seen her play like

22:57

five matches in a row . Right

22:59

, she looked amazing in the second round at Roland

23:02

Garros , but she didn't have that log jam of

23:04

matches , and you obviously , better

23:06

than anyone else here , knows what it's like to come back , especially

23:09

, you know , after

23:11

kind of giving birth and being a mother

23:13

. So I think that's something to look out for . Is

23:16

we're talking about winning slams , but that's

23:18

seven matches . We haven't seen her get through four

23:20

yet , right , but I do feel like

23:22

the build is in place and , if nothing

23:24

else , she showed us that that top

23:27

level tennis is still in there somewhere

23:29

, right , like she still possesses the

23:31

, the osaka that we remember , where she can

23:33

just be dominant and kind of take , take

23:35

the racket out of someone's hands , do you do

23:38

, you watch soccer ? what you

23:40

mean football or or soccer .

23:42

Soccer . The real football

23:45

. I'm sorry there's an .

23:46

American audience there , Kim , Not

23:51

to the point of where I feel confident saying yes . And then have

23:53

you ask me something obscure about soccer .

23:55

So we had the Champions League finals recently , right ? So a

23:57

friend of mine is the goalie of Real Madrid

23:59

, thibaut Courtois . We've known

24:01

each other since we were little . He

24:04

had a huge , huge , huge knee

24:06

injury . Um surgeries

24:09

like took him a while , like came back , have to have another

24:11

surgery and then he

24:14

ended up like he didn't play the whole season

24:16

, ended up playing the champion's league final and played

24:18

incredible , right . So he like , so

24:20

we were like kind of at times like texting and and

24:22

he , he's like , yeah , I'm gonna

24:25

see like how I'm going to see how I feel

24:27

when I get back out there and

24:29

I'm like you'll be fine , you'll

24:31

remember it . Like this . And

24:33

I feel like that's the same with Osaka

24:35

. Yes , it's taken her a little bit of time

24:38

, but it's also physically when you

24:40

have had to put the time in the

24:42

habits and the routines , like she hasn't

24:44

been away from the game long enough

24:46

to say like , oh , yeah , this is going to take a long time

24:49

for her to recover . Like I feel like those habits

24:51

and the mindset of like , um

24:53

, remember , when she like came , like played

24:55

incredible against kvitova and the australian open

24:57

final , like to step it up in those moments , like

25:00

when you're down in the third and come back like

25:02

she that's

25:04

there and I , I feel like you

25:06

know it could be one set , one match . That

25:08

will just ignite that and and then

25:10

she will be on that role of like okay , let's go

25:12

. And so I feel

25:14

like , yeah , I think at

25:17

our age , you know , muscle memory is not

25:19

maybe it's

25:22

more like it's more like at my , at our age .

25:23

it's like more like muscle forfeiture . Um

25:33

, uh , one thing I want while I , while I have you , uh , this dynamic between um Coco and Iga , where

25:35

it's like Coco is two in the world right now , first time . She's gotten to

25:38

two in the world , obviously as a grand slam

25:40

champion , obviously one of the

25:42

most the best and most consistent

25:44

performers , week in and week out . She has

25:46

so many great things about her game . I

25:48

think she's an unbelievable

25:51

and I say this in the most flattering

25:53

way possible , so digest it that way . But

25:55

when she is off , I think she is one of

25:57

the best problem solvers . Having less

25:59

than her best , uh , that

26:01

that's out there . You know she does . She can

26:03

double fault 15 times and still

26:05

get through matches . She can . Her forehand can be shaky

26:08

, she still gets through matches . But this matchup

26:10

against Iga we're lying

26:12

If we say that she's closer now

26:14

than she was two years ago . Um

26:17

and I , I harp on matchups

26:19

on this podcast where it's like someone's playing

26:21

well , this person's playing well and they're like well , cocos

26:23

look great for the matchup . If

26:25

they're both playing , fine , the matchup

26:28

dictates everything , and I say that from the

26:31

viewpoint of knowing what a terrible matchup looks

26:33

like . I was 3-21 against Roger and pretty

26:35

close to neutral against everyone else at

26:38

worst . Was there someone

26:41

that you struggled with

26:43

just purely on balls and strikes and

26:45

then it eventually balls and strikes becomes

26:47

kind of a mental issue and what

26:49

would you do ? How do you analyze

26:52

this Coco-Iga matchup ?

26:56

For me it was Justine . For

26:58

the longest time , I think

27:00

I lost four Grand Slam finals before

27:02

I won my first one , and three of those were against

27:05

Justine . And I feel like knowing now that

27:07

I'm a little bit older , and like I already

27:09

lost those matches before I even started them , because

27:11

I didn't believe that I was , or

27:14

I didn't fully believe there was always that that if

27:16

I play great and I knew that I had to play

27:18

great , and then you know yeah yeah

27:21

, hope that that I would play great and that

27:23

she , her level would maybe drop at times . But

27:25

once you start thinking about those things , it's , it's

27:27

finished . But yeah , it's definitely become um

27:30

, you know there's nothing more frustrating

27:32

stepping out , you know , onto

27:34

the court against the player that you've lost

27:36

to so many times and after a while there's

27:39

, you know , you're you

27:41

feel kind of hopeless , right , like what , what

27:43

, what is there that I can do ? And

27:45

so you

27:47

know , coco has definitely developed a lot , like she's

27:49

improved , but Iga has improved

27:52

so much as well , whereas I think Iga just

27:54

does not have a weakness and she

27:57

doesn't give you any point . If she gives you a point , it's

27:59

like 15 all , like

28:01

she doesn't give you easy , easy mistakes

28:04

. You know it's , it's yeah

28:06

, mentally . She's just so strong out there

28:08

and and um keeps her bad

28:10

moments like really short , you

28:12

know , whereas a lot of other players , like a sabalenka

28:14

or like rubaki , not even even

28:16

coco at times , like when they're off , like it

28:19

can be for a little bit of a longer time , whereas Iga keeps

28:21

that amount of time really short

28:23

and yeah , it'll

28:25

be tough . I mean , you know there's only

28:27

so much you can do , right , to try and change or

28:29

adjust your game a little bit to try and

28:32

beat an opponent . But yeah

28:34

, it's a tough one and an

28:37

interesting one that we'll always be

28:39

watching right Like what , how can she

28:41

do it ? And maybe on , on on on the grass court

28:43

. Is there a different technique ? Maybe more certain

28:45

volley or whatever ?

28:47

I mean any , any , any , any surface that is

28:49

quicker to where Coco's backhand can get through

28:51

the court and maybe you know she

28:53

can become first serve dominant . I think the the only

28:55

way around this matchup consistently and

28:58

I've seen with my own eyes in

29:00

practice Coco go

29:02

through a hopper of balls serving

29:04

125 consistently second serves

29:07

, not missing any . I think she has the

29:09

ability to become a dominant server

29:11

. I think , you know , struggled

29:13

at times and I think it kind of goes in waves

29:15

right when she can be streaky , like

29:17

in Australia this year , even the tournament

29:20

before and then going into Australia , she was

29:22

hitting 12 aces a match with two . You

29:24

know she was winning 90% of her first serve points , not double

29:26

faulting , and I think the

29:28

the the thing that she has to solve for

29:30

is obviously traffic

29:33

going through her forehand side is a problem . People

29:35

saying she needs to step up and flatten out that forehand . That's

29:44

just not her shot shape , like she doesn't have such a big swing too like it's . It's a I just

29:46

I hate .

29:47

I hate the solutions that aren't based in the reality of someone's . On her game . Yeah , yeah , you can say

29:49

like oh , step in and like lean forward

29:51

, that's not her . Her heavy forehand

29:53

is great , like it's you know on the

29:56

clay court . It causes a lot of trouble , like yeah

29:58

, I , I used to like pull .

29:59

I used to go crazy to be like step inside the

30:01

court and draw . I'm like do you know how badly

30:03

I hit the ball ? Like I can't step on

30:05

like a foot inside the court and

30:07

take backhands and dry like I . My body doesn't

30:10

actually work that way . My grip like I'm not going to change

30:12

a grip when I'm 26 . So the

30:15

solutions that I hear analysts and people

30:17

coming up with for this scenario

30:19

, where it's like she needs to step in and flatten out her forehand at the line

30:21

, I'm like that's . I don't think that

30:23

. That's like telling Iga to serve and volley Like I don't think

30:25

that's a realistic .

30:27

No , but I see from the point of like , what

30:30

could damage Iga a little bit more

30:32

is like , if you can attack her forehand

30:34

, like not just like once , twice

30:36

, do it like keep going like three , four times

30:38

, like in a row , like to really try and put a lot

30:40

of pressure on that side , because I do feel

30:43

at times , and on the on the faster surfaces

30:45

, that's the shot that a lot of times does

30:47

break down . And so , yeah

30:49

, like you know , if you look at it just

30:51

from that side , like what would be a good tactic

30:54

for for coco , I do think it's attacking

30:56

the forehand and like , really like , almost

30:59

like , with a lot of stubbornness , right

31:01

, like I'm just gonna keep going and I'm gonna try to break

31:03

it down and I'm gonna try to kind of , yeah

31:06

, make it , make her , her doubt

31:08

that shot and um , because

31:10

it's happened I mean surfaces .

31:12

Surfaces matter too like yeah it's

31:14

on clay . It's a different . Like

31:16

you're saying it's tough to run traffic through iga's forehand side

31:18

on clay , whereas it's gettable . It's a different . Like you're saying it's tough to run traffic through Egas forehand side on clay , whereas

31:20

it's gettable on on grass

31:23

on a fast hard court . You see her

31:25

take kind of more random losses and like around

31:27

a 16 or quarters , you know . So

31:29

it is a little bit different . I understand Coco

31:31

going after it more on something that's giving her a little bit

31:33

of help , um , but I it honestly

31:35

.

31:35

I just I don't think it's going to

31:37

be . I think she can .

31:39

I think she can be a dominant server . I think her top line

31:41

serving is fantastic . It's just creating

31:43

the continuity in those fields and the ability to

31:45

kind of let it go and let it rip on the

31:48

serve .

31:48

So what is it , in your opinion , that like with her

31:50

serve , maybe at times being like it's definitely

31:52

improved a lot , but like at times still

31:54

being inconsistent , like what is it like ? Like

31:57

? What is it that creates that ? Is it

31:59

I ?

31:59

think it's . I think it's , I think it's purely toss based . And

32:01

she , we worked , you know , two days only

32:04

. So there's no , you know how much

32:06

work , how much can you get done in two days , but but

32:09

it's , it's toss based , right , Like basically

32:11

, if you have a serve and you're reaching for it

32:13

, like you're reaching forward for it , you

32:15

can't create a spin mechanism that gives you consistent

32:18

margin . You just can't . And I feel like I

32:20

especially like American centric

32:22

coaches . They're like get forward on everything

32:24

, hit forward , take it early , Like you . I don't

32:26

know that it's always that way , but a serve has

32:28

to be somewhat above your head , Cause you have to be

32:30

able to hit the bottom of the ball and create that spin

32:32

mechanism . With Coco , her right foot

32:34

comes over to the side , so she's already tweaked a little bit

32:36

forward , right . So you're already kind of

32:38

leaning . And then on the second serve , it's all

32:40

just margin . The toss has to come back

32:43

over , almost like directly above your

32:45

head , as opposed if you're reaching forward for

32:47

a second serve , it's going to be inconsistent

32:49

, right ? Zverev used to do it and he's . He's

32:51

fixed it , he's fixed his toss . He's brought it down

32:54

almost a foot and a half on average

32:56

from where it was in 2020 . I

32:58

think that matters and I also think that

33:01

she's been so good throughout her entire

33:03

life with

33:06

being able to retrieve and play great

33:08

defense and , on her worst days , be

33:10

scrappy that I think too quickly

33:12

she gives up on hitting big first serves

33:15

and goes to like kind of protect the double

33:17

fault and kind of protect the first serve , and

33:20

I think she's going to have to go through the

33:22

tough moments of like okay , I had a bad

33:24

serving day , but I need to stick with it . I'm

33:26

similar to EGA deciding she was going to be more aggressive

33:28

. She just did it Like she committed to it and

33:31

was kind of head down . But I think , especially

33:33

in that matchup , she has to

33:35

up her risk profile on her serve . She has

33:38

to be able to get through service games without

33:40

being challenged consistently . On that second serve

33:42

she can go big . She maybe take more risks

33:44

where it's placed in the box , maybe take more risks

33:46

on a higher MPH into

33:49

the body . I've seen it with my own eyes

33:51

to where after 20 minutes of serving

33:53

, there wasn't a ball in the net . You know

33:55

. So she , she can do it . Um

33:57

, getting texts before Australia

33:59

from hitting partners saying like she's serving , like

34:01

you know , like one of the one of the top guys

34:04

out here in practice , like it's . It's absurd , so

34:06

it is in there . I just think she has to get used to

34:08

that more aggressive mindset I think her

34:10

default mindset , as it

34:13

would be for me and everyone else if we could play defense

34:15

.

34:15

The way that she would is more of like kind of a defense

34:18

, react to what's coming at you , and

34:20

I'd like her to kind of take the ball and and

34:22

kind of control , control the pitching a little

34:24

bit I heard that from my coach back in the day too is like

34:26

make sure you finish your service motion and

34:29

like hit and already kind of fall back into

34:31

like oh , the the tough returns coming . Like I

34:33

gotta be ready for that . Like yeah

34:35

, it's a good , I'm glad to hear

34:37

that you can like that you're

34:40

on the team a little bit and help out , and no , I'm

34:42

not , I'm not like that's .

34:43

That's the thing , that's like .

34:44

No , maybe not like but that you're , that you're a go-to

34:46

kind of person .

34:47

Yeah , I think , I think , I think I

34:49

just I think I'm just more of an exhaust mechanism

34:51

so she doesn't have to take all of brad's opinions

34:53

. He can spare some on me instead . But , uh , okay

34:57

, so , okay , so , let's get to that . Let's get to the guys quickly

34:59

before , uh , before we let you

35:01

go , um , as , as we're talking

35:03

, it's probably 45 minutes from when

35:05

, um , the men's final uh

35:07

finished . We walked straight into studio um

35:10

Alcaraz . So here's

35:13

here . Here's kind of what I I'm gonna

35:15

everyone when I'm wrong , post

35:17

big three sitting there in 2021

35:20

, it kind of looks like Rodgers

35:23

hurt Rafa , I think

35:25

lasted longer than any of us maybe

35:27

thought he would when we saw him the

35:29

way he played . At 2021 years old Novak

35:33

obviously still look dominant . But there was this wonder

35:35

of I'm in Arthur Stadium night

35:37

session . Are we

35:39

going to have the stars

35:41

in the vacuum post-Serena

35:43

, post-roger , post-rafa

35:46

, so on and so forth , post-venus , that

35:48

can fill this stadium with

35:50

the brand of tennis and

35:53

with the star power ? And I honestly

35:55

feared , and would have bet

35:58

significant money , that there

36:00

was going to be a little bit of a lull in

36:02

the interest of tennis , in the

36:04

product that was being put out there in

36:06

the . I thought it was going to take more years to kind

36:08

of have to build and market superstars

36:11

. And was I

36:13

ever completely wrong

36:15

? I mean , this kid steps in

36:17

. He's my favorite player

36:19

to watch , he can hit every shot

36:21

and it's like he's this mix of

36:23

kind of perfect

36:25

because he can hit every shot and play a certain way

36:27

and move a certain way , but also vulnerable , cause you

36:30

don't feel like he even

36:32

he , three grand slam wins later

36:34

, has full . I

36:36

don't know how you can harness all of the options

36:38

that he has at a given moment . So it does lead to

36:40

the sense of vulnerability at times

36:42

. Also , what's your

36:44

take on Carlos ? And I

36:47

don't know the way he's just kind of taken the world by storm and

36:49

kind of post big three .

36:52

Yeah , and also the way he's doing it right . It's like

36:54

with a , with an enjoyment it's still

36:56

you

36:59

see the kid in him Like it's , it's , it's , it's it's with a lot of excitement and and

37:01

at times too , like you can see the nerve still , you know

37:03

, creeping in there and and the doubt at times

37:05

, but he's so fun

37:07

to watch . And then , um , you know , at

37:09

the us open last year too , like you know , when

37:12

, when you're talking to people kind of in the stadium

37:14

and stuff , like , I would always say , like at times , just close

37:16

your eyes and just listen for a second , like like

37:18

that's something that I love to do , like you

37:21

know I did it with Rafa back in the day like it's

37:23

so interesting to just

37:25

listen to a player's movement like

37:27

, and especially when they're not , you know

37:29

, about to hit the ball , like what they're doing in between

37:32

and how . So that's the same with

37:34

him . And and I love

37:36

, yeah , he's surrounded by good people

37:38

, he has a good team , he you know I mean

37:40

juan carlos ferrer what he's done

37:43

with this kid from such a young age like there's

37:45

so many as you're saying it so many

37:47

coaches , they hop from one player to the other

37:49

and then , yeah , they have great results , great job

37:51

. But this is , like the you know , a

37:53

great story of

37:56

, like a past player who's done well and

37:58

, yeah , took

38:00

a young kid under his wing and really developed

38:02

them to . You know , a grand

38:04

slam champion , multiple grand slams , and who knows where

38:06

it's going to end . So , if he can stay healthy

38:09

and we've seen him , you know , I saw juan

38:11

carlos ferrer in the semi-final against sinner like a

38:13

lot of times . Like he was doing this , like calm down

38:15

, like stay , keep your , don't get too much

38:17

adrenaline , like up up from

38:19

what happened last year where he was

38:21

having almost like full body cramps against Novak

38:24

. So I think it's a lot of that right , like

38:26

learning to deal with the adrenaline . Now

38:28

it's , yeah , keeping his

38:30

emotions under control , like and because

38:32

he's so explosive and

38:35

feisty and and like

38:37

in a positive way . So it's um , yeah

38:39

, it's also like he's learning so

38:41

much and he is absorbing

38:44

things and and he's getting better all the

38:46

time . So , again , like I think you know

38:48

what you mentioned about rafa , you know , when

38:50

he was younger , is a little bit

38:52

not a concern , but , like I , you

38:54

know , there's so many more um , physical

38:57

. You know I say like

39:00

there's so many more physical . You know I say like like

39:02

there's so much more focus on recovery than when we were younger Right , like there's so much more people

39:04

like the details are so much more important . And

39:07

so

39:09

if he can stay healthy I mean we saw the

39:11

elbow injury but if he can stay healthy , it's

39:13

going to be a really really impressive

39:15

to . You know , I think the most important thing

39:18

for him is going to be able to kind of schedule his season

39:20

out really well and you know make

39:22

.

39:23

If , if , if anything I've

39:25

the last couple of years I've

39:27

seen him go and play on

39:31

the heels of massive wins , go

39:33

and play like smaller events , and I'm going so

39:36

I think , from just but I was smaller

39:40

events and I'm going so , I think , from just , but I was . I was someone who had to feel good and and have

39:42

matches going into slams . Otherwise

39:44

I just felt like I was . I dealt from a place of insecurity

39:47

. I obviously didn't have the skills , the skillset

39:49

of , of of Alcarez , but I think this

39:51

tournament , specifically for

39:54

the point you're making , is like I

39:56

was undercooked coming in , didn't play

39:58

much on clay and now there's like that

40:00

that uh , and I think Rafa needs matches also

40:02

I think he operates that same way , but

40:04

fed and Novak , specifically , and

40:07

Serena got Serena's probably the biggest

40:09

master of this is like I'm

40:11

undercooked and I can still go in and win a grand

40:13

slam and until this one , I

40:15

think this is going to do wonders for the

40:17

ability to schedule confidently , like you're saying

40:19

, and maybe protect the body with scheduling , while

40:22

also not worrying about kind of having

40:24

those feels going

40:26

into a grand slam . And I'm really happy

40:28

that you brought up Ferrero

40:30

because as you were talking

40:32

, I was writing here . I'm like , okay , so the

40:35

coaching part and you mentioned people

40:37

working with different players . I'm like

40:39

, okay , so the coaching part and you mentioned people working with

40:41

different players . Most

40:45

of like the quote unquote celebrity coaches are brought on , like I brought on Jimmy Connors when I

40:47

was already an established player to play to multiple grand slam finals

40:49

I think three or four at that point

40:51

and I

40:53

needed someone who just understood

40:55

those moments . And you

40:58

know a lot of the coaches I had . I love to death . But

41:00

I could look at them and say I feel this like let's

41:02

talk , let's get through it and it was .

41:04

they don't understand ?

41:05

No , it was something they had to , something

41:07

you kind of have to experience to understand , sometimes

41:10

not for everyone . So that came from you , like

41:12

, like , like you getting Jimmy on board

41:14

with like , that's something that came from inside of you or

41:16

you had people around you that were like , oh no , I

41:19

was I made that I say early

41:21

on , it was probably like all of us right

41:23

, we're 18 , 19 where it's probably dictated . It's more

41:25

of like a democracy of opinion

41:27

, whereas , you know , when you get to 25

41:29

, 26 , 24 , 25 , 26

41:31

, and you've been on tour for six , seven years , I think it becomes a

41:33

little bit more of a decision-making dictatorship

41:36

, especially when it comes to to coaches

41:38

. Um , I asked I had I had gone through two

41:40

, two people . Um , uh , jim

41:42

Currier turned me down and then I I was

41:44

like I wonder what Connors is doing , like he , he wasn't

41:46

even around tennis , but I just needed someone

41:49

. I think the American thing and the expectation

41:51

, and . But , all that being said

41:53

, we've seen coaches come in where

41:55

it's like , you know , edberg

41:57

with , with , with Roger or

41:59

Lubitsch with Roger or Becker

42:02

, with Novak , and I'm going , you know , yes

42:04

, I get that because they need someone who is

42:06

, you know , at least close to their level to

42:08

like , actually feel like they're having a conversation and

42:10

also in the prime of those guys'

42:13

career , I think my cat could have coached them pretty well

42:15

, Like I , just you know it , just , it

42:17

was already established . So Ferrero

42:19

too often gets lumped into this

42:21

celebrity coaching thing . I , right

42:23

now , as I stand . I don't think I could

42:25

see a 14 year old on earth where

42:28

I would give up my life as

42:30

it currently stands to go work

42:32

with a 14 year old to develop them into

42:34

a champion . That is not the same as

42:36

someone coming in with a 21

42:38

, 22 year old who's already kind of established , or

42:41

? one slams , or yeah he

42:43

has developed a grand slam champion as a as

42:45

a celebrity coach . That is extremely

42:47

different . And there's stuff I don't know , like

42:49

there's the technical part which he's never

42:52

not prepared , like his technique is phenomenal

42:54

and he's developing a slice that looked a little

42:56

weird two years ago and they kind of can

42:58

see that that's a continuation . The strategic

43:01

part of it uh , how

43:03

to deliver a strategic message and also how

43:05

to articulate that message . Connors

43:07

could tell me something that was the exact same as

43:10

someone else you know who wasn't

43:12

Connors but he would say it with an intensity

43:14

and he would say it in a way that I immediately

43:16

understood , right , like I'm like intensity , and he

43:18

would say it in a way that I immediately understood , right , like I'm like I

43:24

get . I understand what you're saying , what he's done to kind of develop a technical

43:26

part at a young age , to develop the relationship part of there's

43:28

no breakage , they don't yell at each other

43:30

during matches , like there's no it could just be like

43:33

a look right or like like yeah

43:35

. So all of these things are not something

43:37

that I don't think I think

43:39

I can know what's happening . I can tell you what I think is

43:41

happening , but then to go , I'm

43:43

going , I'm having insecurity . Whenever I

43:45

talk to anyone , I'm like am I giving too much information

43:48

? When do I pull back ? When do I keep going ? To

43:50

have kind of mastered all of those things you

43:52

know and also teach someone to play

43:54

completely different than you did , I think

43:57

takes a certain amount of like a lack of ego

43:59

, and I don't think Ferrero , as much credit

44:01

as he gets for the job he's done , I still don't

44:03

think it's enough .

44:04

No , no , I agree . And what I love today

44:06

, like after the final , like when he ran into

44:08

the , into the stands , to see his , like , his

44:10

, his , like his team Juan

44:13

Carlos Ferrero , his coach , his

44:24

coach that he had on tour , was there too and like hugging . So there's

44:26

, you know , there's , I'm sure he's getting mentored by him too , right , and he's learning from his

44:28

coach , and it's it's generations that have gone through , you know , to where he is right now

44:30

as a coach and , um , I agree , like to be able to , to

44:32

have a coach or that knows

44:34

what it's like . Like , my biggest frustrations with my

44:36

coaches in the past was where I'm explaining

44:39

to them that I'm really not feeling my forehand . They're

44:41

saying , yeah , but it looks fine from the stance , like

44:43

you know , like I can't imagine

44:45

, like I'm like dude , like all right , whatever , like you

44:47

don't get it .

44:48

Like there's those like , and

44:50

it's , you know , players understand

44:53

that , like that , you and

44:55

conversely when I have , conversely when I haven't missed

44:57

a forehand in two weeks . Don't talk to me about it yeah

45:00

, exactly , just leave , just leave it alone leave it be like

45:02

like I had a rule with my sir , like talk

45:04

to me about everything , don't talk to me about anything technical

45:06

ever on a serve , because that's the only shot I actually

45:09

know inside out , know how to fix uh

45:11

on a on a pretty consistent .

45:12

It's unbelievable , like you know , worked with

45:14

like a little bit with some players here and there like

45:16

nothing like official . But like how

45:18

many times like I've worked

45:20

with the player that wants to change something

45:22

about their technique every time they they lose

45:24

a match and I'm like how can

45:26

you become a confident player , like if that's your

45:29

go , you know , like it's just so , yeah , um yeah

45:33

, I , I .

45:34

I just can't wait to see more of this and also

45:36

this rivalry with with center Sinner

45:38

. It's such a gift . Just a quick

45:41

thought on him Obviously

45:44

getting to number one come Monday . We do need to talk about he will be

45:46

number one in the world I think the 28th man

45:49

on the WTA tour

45:51

man on the ATB tour to get that ranking

45:53

. What

45:56

did you feel like the first time that you got that ranking and was it tough to kind

45:58

of wrestle with the next time you walked out on court ?

46:01

I almost felt like not worthy . I feel like

46:03

my first time , because I had

46:06

never , like I hadn't , won a grand slam . You know

46:08

, and like in the media too , like the press conference , that's

46:10

all they were asking Like , do you feel like you're worthy of

46:12

like being number one ? Because you

46:15

know , especially Serena at the time , because you know especially Serena

46:17

at the time , like she wasn't playing much but when she played like the big tournament

46:19

, she would almost win everything right . So , like

46:21

I agreed like she was definitely the better

46:23

player the year that I became number one , but okay

46:26

, like I played more and I was more consistent in

46:28

those tournaments . But it is , you

46:30

know . So that does you know , some

46:33

of the comments from the media do get into your

46:35

head . So

46:41

it became a motivation to really like try to like get it done right , like to get that

46:43

first grand slam under my belt and um . So I think for sinner like

46:45

to be able to um , you

46:47

know he's won a slam , like I think as a kid you

46:49

know , winning a grand slam and becoming number

46:51

one is like what you kind of dream

46:53

for and and hope for and um , and

46:56

then what he's able to kind of check those boxes

46:58

already is is cool , and then you kind of just keep pushing the bar and and hope for and um , and then when he's able to kind of check those boxes already is is cool , and then you kind of just

47:00

keep pushing the bar and and keep

47:02

pushing it forward . But um , he's um

47:04

so fun to watch grown um

47:07

. I was doing commentary in paris and it's

47:09

funny , like how the guys were still talking about how

47:11

, yeah , he needs to physically get stronger and he's

47:13

too skinny and um , but

47:16

I'm like , listen , he's , he's improved and

47:18

developed so much that , yeah

47:20

, he's so fun to watch and

47:22

it's also like just a different body

47:25

type than it was .

47:25

We all like to kind of project forward from what

47:27

it was when we first got on tour and make that like

47:30

the the baseline now , like what's

47:32

too skinny , is medvedev too skinny ? Yes

47:34

, very skinny is sinner too skinny , if

47:37

you can move and create speed .

47:39

I don't care what you look like , I

47:41

have friends that come to the tournaments

47:43

and they talk about I didn't know

47:45

Federer was skinny , I

47:47

didn't know Novak was skinny , I

47:50

don't think when they watch it

47:52

on TV and they're big tennis fans , but then when they

47:54

see them in real life , that's what they talk about . They

47:56

don't say that about me , but us , but no , but

47:59

it's like . But then when they see them in real life , that's what they talk

48:01

about . They don't say that about me , but Us , but no , but

48:03

it's like . But there's a

48:05

different build . You do feel like the physical

48:07

kind of description of

48:09

players have definitely changed , and

48:11

then probably a little bit more on the men's side than

48:14

on the women's side .

48:15

Yeah , and props to Zverev . Obviously coming

48:17

in with the whole hype mechanism around around

48:19

Nadal dealing with a

48:22

million off court issues and the ability to compartmentalize

48:24

, and we won't get on our high horses about that . I'm sure John

48:26

Wertheim will have an opinion one way or the other , um

48:29

later on in the show . But to come

48:31

in as a favorite in a grand slam

48:33

and deliver , um being one set

48:35

away , you said you lost your

48:37

first handful of major finals before

48:39

you broke through . Talk about

48:41

the mental hurdle that Zverev

48:44

is kind of feeling going

48:46

through , where he's basically accomplished

48:48

kind of everything in tennis as far as

48:50

outside of majors . One year in championships

48:52

has won , I think , six Masters 1000 . Twitter

48:56

fingers stay away from me if he's won seven 1000

49:01

. You know , twitter fingers stay away from me if he's 17 . I get it . Um

49:03

, but uh , just kind of talk about your process and where is he ? And is there extra

49:05

scar tissue considering the way he

49:07

lost in 2020 um , where

49:09

it was on his racket a little bit , and having

49:12

a lead now in this one also

49:14

, uh , up two sets . Uh , where

49:16

where does he stand on on monday , looking back

49:18

, is it pride ? And what you put out there is

49:21

it desperation to get over the hump , or is it

49:23

some mixture of of both ?

49:25

um , I would think desperation

49:28

is probably the , the feeling that is number

49:31

one at the moment . Um , frustration

49:34

, um is , um , yeah

49:37

, I mean it's . It's . You know the like

49:39

. I've talked to Simona Halep in the past . Like

49:41

you know , I was close to Darren like

49:43

, and going through moments I own

49:45

Strabur as well like it's , it's , you

49:48

feel like you create a bigger

49:50

, you put

49:52

focus on winning that Grand

49:55

Slam becomes so

49:57

much , that becomes so much more important

49:59

than than anything else . Really

50:01

, like , at times , you like don't even think about

50:03

like , oh , you know what should my

50:05

, how can I improve my game ? Like it's just basically

50:07

that focus on like I need to win that grand

50:09

slam . And , and so

50:12

I think for him too , like , even like in that fifth set

50:14

, like just like his whole his

50:16

facial expression changed . There

50:18

was a panic at times or like a yeah

50:21

, like , what can I do ? Like this is gonna happen again

50:23

. Like you can almost read it off his like face and

50:25

it's um , and it's

50:27

unfortunate . But you know from

50:30

me , like how I kind of took it

50:32

. Like , yeah , I was probably not

50:34

a pleasant person to be around for the first two

50:36

, three days after I

50:39

would lose those matches , and what I hated the most

50:41

was the fact that I never was able to

50:43

play my best tennis in those finals that I lost

50:45

to Justine , right , like there's a different feeling

50:47

If you like feel like , okay , I like

50:49

went all out , I played great , like it was a great

50:51

final , but I just felt

50:54

like , yeah , I was always like just more

50:56

tense and tight and more

50:58

in my head and and yeah , and

51:01

so my kind of thought

51:03

process that I tried to really tell

51:05

myself over and over again was okay , like , put

51:07

yourself in that position . It's not something you can train

51:10

in practice , right , like Zverev can't say , oh , let

51:12

me go and try to relive that moment

51:14

in practice . Like , like , it's not something you can

51:16

do , like that you can train for . So you have

51:18

to , yeah , give yourself , like

51:20

, be patient and keep putting in the work and

51:22

give yourself those moments again where you can , you know

51:25

, play the quarter semifinals against these players

51:27

, finals , and and really

51:29

, yeah , confidence is what you need

51:31

in those moments and and you

51:33

can only create it on , you know , at

51:36

the big stage and those big in those big matches

51:38

.

51:38

It's a . It's a tough spot to be in when

51:41

it's win

51:44

or bust Right . So it's like it's win or bust

51:46

right . So it's like I got to a point in my career

51:48

at Wimbledon where you

51:50

lose a final . It's basically like it's

51:52

either euphoria and it's gonna

51:54

happen , and it's gonna feel like your

51:56

tennis heart is complete right , or

51:59

it's like a complete failure and

52:02

I was the opposite of you , whereas

52:05

I would play the slam finals and I didn't feel

52:07

like I didn't play well . I never

52:10

played kind of subpar

52:13

in a slam final You're better

52:15

than I am but I didn't feel like it

52:17

was the moment that got to me . It was the fact that I just couldn't

52:19

get over the hump

52:21

of kind of a talent divider ability

52:24

and it's just for me

52:26

. I have a little bit of sympathy for where

52:28

he's going to go , because it's basically going to

52:30

turn into this conversation where he

52:32

can make the finals of a slam . What

52:34

an accomplishment that is To

52:37

go through two weeks of your

52:39

life , 25 hours on court , and

52:41

it's going to get digested the same by

52:44

people who don't know and

52:46

don't understand the same as if he lost third round

52:48

and I hate that for him . I think it sucks

52:50

Um , credit to him for kind

52:52

of getting through and keep putting himself , uh

52:54

, in that position . Certainly not easy

52:56

, but I think I also they . It

52:58

only gets tougher , um , the longer

53:01

it kind of sits out there .

53:02

It was a camera angle at one point where you

53:04

could see him look at his box . But at the same

53:07

time , like in the president's box , you saw the trophy

53:09

and I think it was like four , two in the fifth , and it's

53:11

like , oh , like you know , like you could

53:13

see that he was feeling , like he felt that it

53:15

was slipping away and , yeah

53:17

, it's , it's really tough and and

53:19

like it gets to me like I was sitting here with my

53:21

friend , like watching it on the , on the screen , and we

53:24

were both like , oh , like this is terrible , like

53:26

, but it's

53:28

, it's part of the sport and you can only hope that

53:30

he , you know , it makes him even more hungry

53:32

to , yeah , to work , to keep

53:34

working hard . It's not that he doesn't work hard to keep

53:36

that up and give himself another

53:39

opportunity , right to do it , to do it again

53:41

and then try to , yeah , change some little

53:43

things here and there and and , but

53:45

it's , um , it is definitely a great

53:47

effort . Like you know , people around me would

53:49

always say that , but there's so much kind

53:51

of black and white thinking too , Like , oh , I lost

53:53

, like , who cares ? Like , if you know , if it was a fight , like

53:55

, yeah , even the trophy

53:57

, like the runner up trophy .

53:58

I was like oh man there's no other

54:01

sport , by the way , that you have to stay out there . Like

54:03

, think of , like , imagine an NBA finals , like you

54:05

having to stay out there where they have a team celebrates we're the only

54:07

dumb sport that does that . Like you

54:10

can leave , like another sport you can leave , and

54:12

then you know you have to do press and you're disappointed

54:14

, but you don't have to stay out there in the worst

54:16

moments of your professional . Oh

54:18

my God , give a speech , the

54:20

biggest achievement of my entire life , or

54:22

my entire career , I think , is speaking

54:25

after Grand Slam losses , when all you want to do

54:27

is curl up in a ball and suck your thumb for about a

54:29

month . But

54:32

anyways , listen , I think it's

54:34

just not that we needed another proof point of

54:37

tennis being in an amazing spot , I

54:39

think from a crossover mainstream

54:42

pop culture perspective , with , you

54:44

know , getting everyone has a documentary

54:46

on some sort of major streaming platform , I

54:48

think , interest level ticket sales you

54:50

can't get tickets for the U S open right now and it's , however

54:53

, many weeks away . I you know email

54:55

Wimbledon and it's just like the demand for

54:57

to consume tennis in person on

54:59

TV . Uh , in

55:01

moments where there's not live content , I

55:04

think is at an all-time high and it's not something

55:06

I saw coming . I'm thankful to the athleticists

55:08

and the athletes that are out there . Our

55:11

podcast is in great shape because Kim Kleisters

55:13

comes on every once in a while .

55:14

It's all you . No , no , no , no , no . The

55:17

wins keep on coming , you have no idea

55:19

how many people I'm telling you how many people like talk

55:22

to me about it , like random , and are

55:24

like I don't know , andy was like

55:26

this and you guys are great . I'm

55:28

like okay , thanks , like it's . You know it's

55:30

like it's crazy . Yeah , it's , it's really cool

55:32

um so I'm happy . You guys

55:34

are um well . Well , you're great

55:37

, you do a great job .

55:38

So you were . I think you were one of the first

55:40

people who said yes to coming on and exploring

55:42

the way we do things here , without

55:45

asking questions . You said yes and then I think

55:47

it started a little bit of a downhill

55:49

snowball . We are thankful and we're appreciative

55:51

every time you choose to join

55:53

us . I look forward to the next one and enjoy

55:55

some home cooking in Belgium and

55:58

enjoy your family . Enjoy the wedding . Tell your cousin

56:00

we said happy marriage or

56:02

condolences , depending on how it goes .

56:04

I don't know . I'm actually going to be a granddaughter Like I'm . We said happy

56:06

marriage or condolences , depending on how it goes . I don't know , I'm

56:08

actually going to be a granddaughter . Like I'm going to stay with my grandma for a few nights , Like it's

56:10

like my grandma yeah , Like I'll you know she's going to cook for me and all that stuff . So I'm

56:13

really looking forward to that .

56:14

I love it . We'll appreciate it and we'll

56:16

talk soon . Let

56:26

us know when you get back stateside I will and we'll talk to you soon . Thanks , kimmy . All right

56:28

, bye guys . Thanks , always a pleasure , uh , having friend of the show , kim kleister's

56:30

on um it's , I find myself going into like fan mode and asking

56:32

questions to her . Uh

56:34

, I've lived experience but I like hearing the different

56:37

takes on them and the different takes on the

56:39

players and the scar tissues and what might be going

56:41

through and the mental gymnastics . It

56:43

makes me feel , uh , like I'm a little

56:45

less crazy sometimes when there's

56:47

a similar view . But fresh

56:50

still in Paris

56:52

, says he talked to Carlos Alcaraz like

56:55

15 minutes ago when

56:58

he was doing his victory lap . Third

57:01

major , roland Garros

57:03

has won US Open Wimbledon . Roland Garros , youngest

57:05

player to ever win on three different surfaces in

57:08

a grand slam . Uh , from that fancy hotel

57:10

room in paris . John wertheim

57:12

, how you doing it's been a long two weeks for you uh

57:15

, good , two weeks though .

57:17

Uh , no complaints doing well , good to uh

57:19

. Good to see you . Yeah , I wish , uh , you

57:21

know you . You wouldn't know it from

57:23

my surroundings , but uh , I'm about 15

57:26

minutes off the court from Roland Garros

57:28

, so another major in the books and

57:30

Carlos Reign

57:32

Supreme . That was quite a match today

57:35

.

57:35

Talk to me . We're on our group

57:37

text and

57:39

John obviously has a day job

57:41

, you know , kind of calling the shots and

57:43

doing the desk work and then doing the post-match interviews

57:45

, which I think are awesome . I think you do a great job with that

57:47

, but you

57:50

were at the benefit of being in the stadium

57:53

, right ? So there's only so much atmosphere that we can digest

57:55

while watching on

57:57

TV . You sent a text saying like this match

57:59

it's a little weird . I think Zverev

58:01

was up two sets to one at that point and there were a lot of ebbs and

58:03

flows . It looked like the wind was a

58:06

significant factor , at least from one side

58:08

. It seemed like the

58:10

strategies were changing every time they switched ends

58:12

. What was it like in the arena

58:14

today ? Kind of start

58:17

, middle and then obviously the home stretch

58:19

.

58:20

Yeah , this was a weird one . These

58:23

are knowledgeable tennis fans , so you've got a

58:25

little bit of the CNBC crowd . But I think

58:27

everyone sort of came in . They remembered what happened

58:29

to Carlos last year when

58:32

great five rounds , great first couple

58:35

hours against Novak and then the cramps . They

58:37

knew about the controversy we don't have to get into

58:39

now , but they know about the context of Zverev

58:41

and the complications with him making

58:44

the final . They were still recovering , I think , a little

58:46

bit from Rafa , from Novak . It's

58:48

been a bit of a weird tournament

58:50

. And then you have this final and on the one

58:52

hand it's great entertainment

58:54

. There's some shot-making . It's

58:58

very hard to sink your teeth into this

59:00

match , right , I mean Carlos , there were 18 breaks overall

59:02

. Carlos won the first set

59:04

, looks good . Then here

59:07

comes Zverev , takes the second set , carlos

59:09

is up 5-2 in the third . Okay , it looks like

59:11

we're going to have a four-set match . And then he

59:13

disappears . Zverev steals

59:15

that third set and then Carlos wins the fourth

59:17

6-1 . So it was very hard . Just as the players

59:20

had a hard time finding rhythm , so

59:22

did the fans . As

59:25

you say , it was a little bit windy , it was patchy , we had a line call dispute

59:27

. In the end , great value

59:29

, good entertainment . It was box office

59:32

. Carlos wins in five sets . We get our storyline

59:34

. Nadal may have played it for the last time , but the

59:36

new Spaniard comes . And not only that , the guy

59:38

who beat Nadal in round one is the final

59:40

opponent on the final Sunday . It

59:42

was a weird . Four hours though in between

59:45

, and you know , sometimes you get absolute

59:47

classics . Sometimes you have , yesterday , just two

59:49

players on different planes . Today

59:55

was a weird one , but I don't think anyone's asking for a refund and I think , ultimately , tennis has

59:57

its new champion . Tennis has its new steward . We're

59:59

all going to be fine , carlos . I'll tell you

1:00:01

about that interview . He comes in a Michael Jordan T-shirt . I'll tell

1:00:03

you about that interview . He comes in a Michael Jordan t-shirt . His English is , I said , as

1:00:05

much as his tennis has improved , his English has improved

1:00:07

just as much . And the guy wants to

1:00:09

talk about Michael Jordan Every

1:00:13

question . So he sort of went back to Michael Jordan and the words of wisdom and

1:00:15

have I seen the last dance ? And he's better . You never got to see him play

1:00:17

, but he watches YouTube . A

1:00:19

little weird that you win a major and you walk

1:00:21

off the court after a five-cent win and the bowls

1:00:23

of the 1990s are what

1:00:26

you want to talk about , but

1:00:29

no good way to wrap this tournament . Bit of a weird tournament

1:00:31

, bit of a weird day , but that's how

1:00:33

it goes sometimes . And

1:00:36

another major in the books .

1:00:37

Yeah , it just feels like start to finish . This

1:00:39

tournament was dealing with elements

1:00:43

, right , and I say this uh

1:00:46

, we talked about I went on a

1:00:48

quick reaction show like basically

1:00:50

walk into the studio five minutes after it finishes and

1:00:52

basically just read my notes from

1:00:55

the entire match out loud on air , which

1:00:57

is either , uh , annoying to whoever's

1:00:59

listening or , hopefully , informative on some

1:01:01

way . Shape performance it's kind of getting into the

1:01:04

nerd version of tennis . But going

1:01:06

from basically an indoor tournament for week

1:01:08

one to a sunny outdoor tournament and trying

1:01:11

to maintain a similar playing condition

1:01:13

, similar style , challenges all

1:01:15

around . Right , adjustments in this final

1:01:17

uh , I went through down the rabbit

1:01:19

hole of the way Carlos started . The

1:01:21

adjustments that were made by Zverev , uh

1:01:23

, how the wind plays into it . You throw nerves

1:01:25

and execution into it and it's

1:01:28

somehow , you know , masterpieces

1:01:30

can start out ugly sometimes , and sometimes

1:01:32

, you know , andre Agassi said the smartest

1:01:34

thing maybe I've ever heard in this simplistic

1:01:37

thing is you only have to beat

1:01:39

one person per day as a tennis player , and

1:01:41

so it doesn't have to be a classic . But

1:01:43

Carlos , we were questioning

1:01:45

his problem solving earlier this year , right

1:01:48

, does he need Ferrero there ? This was

1:01:50

a pretty good example of

1:01:53

being spotty . First

1:01:55

set was one of the best I've seen him play . It was just

1:01:57

start to finish a slacking

1:01:59

. I mean the ball flight on his backhand side

1:02:01

, the variety he was

1:02:03

showing Zverev didn't know what was coming

1:02:05

, didn't know where it was going to be hit , didn't know what ball

1:02:08

flight was was coming through , figured it out , started

1:02:10

pounding forehand , attacking the strength which is something

1:02:12

you never hear junior coaches talk about . And

1:02:14

then Carlos just kind of stuck it out , kind of choked

1:02:16

away . Frankly , the , the third set , and

1:02:18

then recovered . And here we are talking

1:02:21

about center . For the last six months , carlos

1:02:24

winning a slam third

1:02:26

year in a row , third different slam

1:02:28

, um , and being a good citizen

1:02:31

. Uh , along the way , um

1:02:33

, I admitted , uh

1:02:35

, basically , I was pessimistic

1:02:38

about where tennis was going

1:02:40

to lay post big three

1:02:42

, serena , venus at the top of

1:02:44

her game , and I couldn't be happier

1:02:46

to be wrong about it . I think this , the , the

1:02:48

, the game's in great hands totally

1:02:51

agree .

1:02:51

I mean , I think that's one thing that uh came through

1:02:53

and , as much as we will

1:02:56

mourn and miss the big three and Serena

1:02:58

, they're still going to play these events , they're

1:03:00

still going to hand out trophies , players still are

1:03:02

going to develop . Um , you know , we

1:03:04

don't have to get into it now , but I would say right

1:03:06

now , as a group , you've

1:03:08

got a lot of players who are well worth

1:03:11

rooting for . There are a lot of sort of very

1:03:13

, very worthy stars . I mean it's not

1:03:15

Coco Iga , you've got sort of different

1:03:18

for different personalities . You can go

1:03:20

down the list and it's young and it's old

1:03:22

and

1:03:28

I think you know , I think at some level and I include yourself in this I think the last

1:03:30

generation set the tone right . I mean , I think sort of yourself , roger Rafa Novak , I think

1:03:32

sort of the Andy Murray , the sportsman of the last generation . I think

1:03:35

there's some trickle down effect on that

1:03:37

. I think the sport's going to do just

1:03:39

fine and yeah , I mean you know

1:03:41

it's , it's fluid . This is why we love sports

1:03:43

. Plots change , people change . You

1:03:46

know , a year ago and you were totally honest

1:03:48

a year ago Carlos made

1:03:51

a bit of a mess of his match against Novak

1:03:53

and there was cramping . We talked about his hydration

1:03:55

, his maturity , how he was processing . He was at

1:03:57

one point sort of conceding games in hopes

1:04:00

the cramps would go away . It was a little sloppy

1:04:02

. A year later , completely

1:04:04

buttoned up , he didn't panic . He

1:04:07

needed treatment , but he knew exactly what he was

1:04:09

doing . There were no , he

1:04:11

said there were nerves , but he kept them under wraps

1:04:13

. He wouldn't have known it . He , as you say , pretty

1:04:15

much gagged away that third set and then

1:04:17

he reset and only lost one

1:04:19

game of the fourth . So I think we're seeing a maturing

1:04:22

player as well . We're going to be fine

1:04:24

here , folks , and that was sort of one

1:04:27

of my takeaways . It's crazy tennis , you

1:04:30

said it . It's rain , delays , it's controversies

1:04:33

about crowds . We can talk

1:04:35

. There was a bad call on the fifth set , I think

1:04:37

stained this match a little bit . I don't know if you want

1:04:39

to take the baton there , but you know I think

1:04:41

bottom line is they're gonna play these events

1:04:43

. Inside tennis we quibble about

1:04:45

little thing . The average fan that went there had a great

1:04:48

time today . They'll come back next year . They'll give her out

1:04:50

a trophy next year .

1:04:51

We're gonna be okay , okay , this , uh , this movie

1:04:54

continues yeah , and one

1:04:56

of the things and you mentioned alcaraz learning from last

1:04:59

year , as , as I'm

1:05:01

watching it and he's , he

1:05:04

knows what he's asking for now . Right

1:05:06

, like his body , he can feel

1:05:08

it . Listen , you're never fresher

1:05:10

at hour four . Even if you're in great shape , you're

1:05:13

never fresher at hour four than you are in hour two . It

1:05:15

just doesn't work that way . Even him knowing

1:05:17

the cadence of when to ask for this pickle

1:05:19

juice , when to ask for treatment , what

1:05:22

to ask for when he's getting treatment , those are

1:05:24

all learned behaviors that don't

1:05:26

exist in practice . I've said it before in this podcast

1:05:29

never once in my life did I cramp in practice and

1:05:31

I would practice for six hours and

1:05:33

early on in my career , nerves involved

1:05:36

, different conditions , yada

1:05:38

, yada , yada , I would cramp . You learn how to fix . What

1:05:41

you want from a young player is not to make

1:05:43

the same mistake again and

1:05:45

it seems like with his team and obviously uh

1:05:48

, I , we can't say enough great things about uh

1:05:50

, juan Carlos um in

1:05:52

the job he's done , taking not just a

1:05:55

formed player but a junior , 14

1:05:57

, 15 year old and forming him into the champion

1:06:00

uh that we've seen . Um , just

1:06:02

give me . And obviously we we

1:06:04

want to talk about the Alcaraz Varev match

1:06:06

because it's top of mind and it was dramatic . Right

1:06:08

, they were . It was interesting watching the commentary Alcaraz

1:06:11

rolls the first set , it's like one all in the second set and

1:06:14

McEnroe and Carillo go . Uh . Well

1:06:16

, this is the uh , this is the amount of

1:06:18

time that Ego's on court yesterday , um

1:06:20

, and the match was over . So let's

1:06:22

give attention and respect

1:06:24

to dominance . Even though it

1:06:26

was straightforward , even though it's not going to be the final

1:06:28

that we remember going to a fifth set with

1:06:31

all this drama , we still

1:06:33

need to pay it the same respect , if not more

1:06:35

. Talk about IGA

1:06:37

, this tournament and kind of the progression

1:06:39

you've seen , you know , over the last

1:06:42

four years , since we've gotten to know her , since she burst onto

1:06:44

the scene in winning Roland Garros in that , uh , I

1:06:46

think , uh , the October version in 2020

1:06:49

um , yeah , I mean , first of all , I don't don't you

1:06:51

like this that we have these sort of different

1:06:53

expressions of excellence .

1:06:55

Yes , I don't want these tours to be mirror

1:06:57

images of each other . I love the fact that

1:06:59

you know , we can watch and admire Serena

1:07:01

as she rolls over the competition and then the next

1:07:03

day we can admire the latest chapter

1:07:06

in a rivalry . I don't mind that these tours

1:07:08

and these players are at different places and these finals

1:07:11

play out differently . I mean . I think , they're both enjoyable

1:07:13

in their way and I think it would be actually really boring if

1:07:15

this was just a completely overlapping

1:07:18

Venn diagram . Iga is just dominating

1:07:20

, especially on this surface . You

1:07:22

know she's lost one match in the last

1:07:24

four . You know last five times

1:07:26

she's played this . She lost one match . This was her fourth title

1:07:29

, that naomi asaka match . I mean

1:07:31

I it sounds sort of a it's

1:07:33

a lame twittery thing to say , but I

1:07:35

do feel like naomi asaka was a big winner here

1:07:37

if she shouldn't have gotten the runner-up trophy

1:07:39

. You know , producer michael know this there's ufc

1:07:42

bonuses . Na , naomi Osaka should have

1:07:44

gotten some cash bonus for what

1:07:46

she did in this tournament

1:07:49

. Yeah , exactly , fight of the night bonus . Dana

1:07:51

White comes and gives Naomi Osaka a bag of

1:07:53

cash and says don't declare it on your taxes . But

1:07:55

no , I think after that scare , I

1:07:58

think we see also what a great player she is mentally

1:08:00

. So , naomi Osaka , she's down

1:08:03

match point . She figures out a way she

1:08:05

gets herself out of trouble these , these powers , these ability to escape

1:08:07

, and then for

1:08:09

the next five rounds she absolutely rolls

1:08:12

. I mean she . At one point she won like 20 straight

1:08:14

games . She had three love sets in a row

1:08:16

. The final could have gotten complicated

1:08:18

. You've got this underdog nothing to lose . The crowd

1:08:20

loves or even physically diminutive

1:08:22

. It sort of has every stupid david

1:08:25

and goliath trope and ego and another sort

1:08:27

of expression of mental toughness just said yeah

1:08:29

, not so much . And it's

1:08:32

mental toughness to stave off match

1:08:34

points and be great champion

1:08:36

. Naomi osaka is seven five in the third set . It's

1:08:38

also mental toughness to come out to a final and say , okay

1:08:41

, we're gonna make quick business here today

1:08:43

and she lost two of

1:08:45

the first three games . She lost one game the rest of

1:08:47

the afternoon and here

1:08:49

she is . You look

1:08:51

at who has won five majors and

1:08:53

she's into Justine Ennin territory , two

1:08:56

away from Venus Williams at her age

1:08:58

. And I think we've had this pivot

1:09:00

from . She went from a good player to

1:09:02

a great player , to a generationally

1:09:05

great player , and Chris

1:09:07

Everett very graciously said look , I've got

1:09:09

the record , I've won seven of these . She's going to win more

1:09:11

than me . So yeah

1:09:13

, I think we're looking at something

1:09:16

. She does not have this , particularly

1:09:18

by choice . She's not

1:09:20

someone who's interested in being a

1:09:22

celebrity . She's not someone in having the world

1:09:24

know her , and that's fine

1:09:27

. She sort of wears the cloak

1:09:29

of celebrity . She wears it awkwardly

1:09:31

and uncomfortably , and that's fine . She wants to be

1:09:33

a really good tennis player . She is , and

1:09:35

she's on her path to double digit majors . Carlos

1:09:38

Rivera completely different vibe , completely

1:09:41

different kind of final . Carlos is

1:09:43

, I think , much more um extroverted

1:09:45

, and that's . That's fine too

1:09:47

. So two , two very different champions . So there's a

1:09:49

lot of overlap , but there's a lot of sort of

1:09:52

distinction as well yeah , and just

1:09:54

proven champions at this point .

1:09:55

Like eager breaks through wins . Her first tournament at roland

1:09:57

garros was like okay , you know what

1:09:59

is she . Is she ostapenko or is

1:10:02

she hennon ? And I

1:10:04

got in trouble the other day because I compared I tried to compare the

1:10:06

number of slams versus French Open titles . Hennon's won

1:10:08

seven . Someone on Twitter beat me up about

1:10:10

that . So she's creeping up , obviously

1:10:13

tied with Sharapova . These days these are

1:10:15

all-time great . She's already an all-time great . Now it's

1:10:17

about padding the stats and the resume

1:10:19

. And

1:10:27

I'll tell you , dominance like that doesn't happen

1:10:29

because you find form and it doesn't happen because you

1:10:31

survive a match . It happens because you're committed to random Tuesdays

1:10:33

, right . You're committed to doing the right things

1:10:35

when no one's watching . And then , by

1:10:38

virtue of a lifetime of

1:10:40

discipline , a lifetime of grit

1:10:42

, a lifetime of work , a lifetime

1:10:44

of X , y and Z , all of a sudden you go out

1:10:46

and you make the second week of Roland Garros

1:10:49

look easy . It's not by

1:10:51

accident . It doesn't happen by

1:10:54

accident , but we've covered the finals

1:10:56

. Props to the champions . You were there for

1:10:58

two weeks . The tournament wasn't played over

1:11:00

the last three days Only . Give

1:11:03

us some tidbits . Your , your , your kind of 50

1:11:05

parting thoughts . Uh , in

1:11:07

your mailbag is must read

1:11:10

for any tennis fan . Can you

1:11:12

give us a little sneak peek , a couple of things

1:11:14

that , uh , you found interesting over

1:11:16

the course of the last two weeks ?

1:11:19

cut me off when these get boring or weigh in . This

1:11:22

was the last year , it seems , for NBC , so

1:11:24

we've had a bit . You know I'm a little

1:11:26

bit conflicted here , but the

1:11:28

NBA TV negotiations , I think

1:11:31

, had big bearings and

1:11:34

NBC doesn't necessarily have the

1:11:36

spare cash or else the bandwidth now

1:11:38

that it has the NBA . Who didn't get the NBA

1:11:40

? Well , it looks like this Discovery

1:11:42

, Warner Brothers did not get it and

1:11:46

they reportedly have now sunk $650

1:11:49

million over 10 years into broadcasting this event

1:11:51

. So this was the last year

1:11:53

, foreseeably anyway that NBC

1:11:56

, which was here since the 70s , last

1:11:58

year of NBC TV coverage , what

1:12:01

else ? Last year of NBC TV coverage , what

1:12:03

else ? There were 20

1:12:05

players fined this tournament , which is actually pretty low for

1:12:07

these events . Only three

1:12:09

of them were women . So make of that what you

1:12:11

will Remember

1:12:15

the player who should have been disqualified for the French

1:12:17

wild card , who hit the ball into the stands and actually

1:12:19

hit someone and mysteriously was not disqualified

1:12:22

.

1:12:23

Yeah , see , let me interrupt you when

1:12:25

it , when you leave , when you leave , judgment

1:12:29

calls up to umpires , and it's the same thing

1:12:31

with different results . That's when people get pissed

1:12:33

. When novak hits someone at the us

1:12:35

open and gets

1:12:37

defaulted immediately because it's an umpire on

1:12:40

the court , like if you accidentally hit a ball

1:12:42

and it hits an umpire or the person in the third row , it's the same because it's an umpire on the court , like if you accidentally hit a ball

1:12:44

and it hits an umpire or the person in the third row . It's the same action , it's

1:12:46

an accident , you don't mean to hit someone , but

1:12:48

it's the same result . This bullshit

1:12:50

thing where , like last year , someone gets thrown

1:12:53

out of the tournament for the exact same thing and

1:12:55

then this year . That's what causes

1:12:57

confusion and that's why players get pissed sometimes

1:12:59

. Sorry , rant done go .

1:13:01

No , you're totally right , and this applies beyond tennis

1:13:04

. We want consistency . Why did Angel

1:13:06

Hernandez get fired ? Why do certain legal

1:13:08

decisions really stick in our crop . All

1:13:10

right , we want consistency . We didn't

1:13:12

get it Very strange that a Japanese doubles player

1:13:14

gets dinged for sort of tapping the ball

1:13:17

inadvertently . You

1:13:19

know , defaulted Shane last year . Last year , defaulted Shane last

1:13:21

year . Last year you caught to the doubles player . This year a

1:13:26

tennis player from France rifles the ball , hits a spectator and they basically he

1:13:28

got a $25,000 fine . Interestingly

1:13:31

, on this fine list , 17 men fined

1:13:33

and five of the 17

1:13:35

were Sitsipat's brothers , and

1:13:39

all five infractions were for

1:13:41

coaching . That's

1:13:43

a little weird , I wonder . If the

1:13:45

money goes to charity , it should probably .

1:13:46

There's no continuity in the rules Like it's either

1:14:04

a free for all or

1:14:06

it's not , like it just

1:14:08

doesn't make any

1:14:10

sense . And also , should

1:14:13

we develop like a soccer type thing where

1:14:15

if you get the same infraction over

1:14:17

and over , it should roll over into the next match

1:14:19

. Like if you get coaching violations , should

1:14:21

you get a fresh start each time , even if

1:14:23

you haven't earned

1:14:26

the right for a fresh start based on the infractions

1:14:28

being the same over and over .

1:14:31

It's like hotels and Monopoly

1:14:34

, it's like speeding tickets . Yeah , it should accelerate

1:14:36

. I mean , I think that coaching I think you're allowed to

1:14:38

get coached on your side of the court

1:14:40

, so I think one

1:14:42

can safely assume that this just sits

1:14:45

the thoughts that the father was was shouting

1:14:47

across the neck . So , uh , if they had been , yeah

1:14:50

, it's exactly okay .

1:14:51

so like so wait , I'm allowed to

1:14:53

talk to someone when they're next to me , but I can't like shade

1:14:56

and put my hand motion out if someone's across

1:14:58

the court like I . I I get it Like

1:15:00

can't we just make

1:15:03

a rule ? Simple , you

1:15:05

can coach . You can't coach , Obviously

1:15:08

, if you're talking during someone's serve or if you're talking

1:15:10

during whatever . But like it's

1:15:13

just like us in tennis to make a rule

1:15:15

and then have

1:15:17

so many little things in

1:15:19

the rule to make it confusing and to where nobody

1:15:22

knows what they can and can't do like it's just dumb and

1:15:24

also it like it's . The job

1:15:26

of uh father sits upon us

1:15:28

to know the rules and not get in trouble like god

1:15:32

I gotta be questioning that .

1:15:33

Why , why not just let them change boxes ? Then just

1:15:35

change boxes . Oh , each time you

1:15:37

can't walk , I mean , come on , I can't like it , just yeah

1:15:40

, yeah . But the court but , what you're not ?

1:15:41

no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no no because you're

1:15:43

.

1:15:44

You're like type of tennis fan that only watches matches on stadium

1:15:46

court where they have boxes . Most of them , you're

1:15:57

in the stands like everyone else . We need is what

1:15:59

we need is sitsabas's father , to have more proximity

1:16:02

, to talk more . That's exactly what we need . What's

1:16:04

the next one , john ?

1:16:05

the uh . Can I just back up ? I mean

1:16:08

, can we not just say dad , dad , I don't know if you do the rules

1:16:10

, but you broke it . I got fine . Could you please not do dad

1:16:12

? You did it again . That's twice now . Dad

1:16:14

, three maybe . Uh , you

1:16:16

know , maybe you'll have the fifth time . You're getting an infraction

1:16:19

for coaching .

1:16:19

You could change your ways but anyway , uh , let's move

1:16:21

on the department of redundancy department

1:16:23

yeah , exactly .

1:16:25

Um , let's see what else . Uh , a lot was

1:16:28

made of the night

1:16:30

sessions , 11 of them , not

1:16:32

a single women's match . I talked to amelie maresmo

1:16:34

yesterday and she was very you know , I give her credit . She

1:16:36

took the question and she basically said nothing

1:16:38

to with quality , it's just length . People

1:16:41

pay a lot of money , they come from work . We can't start

1:16:43

it until whatever the time 7 , 30

1:16:45

or 8 , whatever it is and basically , you

1:16:47

know she didn't say this directly , but it

1:16:49

was sort of we can't risk ego going out there and winning

1:16:51

in 41 minutes when people are spending

1:16:54

good money for a night session . So you know

1:16:56

, if I'm the wta , I said here's what we're going to do . We're

1:16:58

going to play not best of five , we're going to play four out of five , we're

1:17:00

going to play four out of seven . Now

1:17:02

, give us all 11 night sessions . But I

1:17:04

think you know it's a fair riddle

1:17:06

. I think she basically says

1:17:09

look , nothing against women's tennis , but I

1:17:11

can't risk charging for an entire

1:17:13

session . What else there

1:17:16

was a lot made of . Well , we can

1:17:18

talk about the line calling , because , one thing , that they did not

1:17:20

have this tournament , strangely enough , before

1:17:27

we even get to the line calling because one thing that they did not have this tournament . Strangely

1:17:29

enough , before we even get to the line , they didn't have electronics on the net . The let . Here

1:17:31

we are . The world is going towards electronic everything . Robots are taking over . Nvidia's

1:17:33

, you know , has the market cap of 10 amazons

1:17:36

and they've gone kind of analog

1:17:38

here . There was not any electronics on the net

1:17:40

. That didn't end up being controversial , but it

1:17:42

could have . I asked the tournament . They said well , it was

1:17:44

a tournament decision and I'm like yeah , no shit

1:17:47

, like of course it was a tournament decision

1:17:49

. What informed that decision ? I did not get very

1:17:51

far on that and then , as you saw , in the

1:17:53

fifth set of today's match and I thought zverev actually

1:17:55

to you know , we can , whatever you think about zverev

1:17:57

I thought he really high-rooted this . It could have been a lot

1:17:59

more embarrassing . You know , critical

1:18:02

call would have given a break and we

1:18:05

do not have electronics . What

1:18:07

did you , how did you react when you saw

1:18:09

this call being made based on highly

1:18:12

fallible human eyesight ?

1:18:14

There's a couple of things . We're basically choosing

1:18:16

to have to rewind cassette tapes

1:18:18

by hand , like we're

1:18:20

literally choosing to rewind Vhs

1:18:22

like this like we have streaming

1:18:25

, we can press back , we can start from the top , and we're

1:18:27

choosing to do it in the most

1:18:29

antiquated fashion available , whether

1:18:31

it's nets , whether

1:18:34

it's line calling . Like we

1:18:37

don't . Like no one churns butter anymore

1:18:39

. Like we don't do that because there's

1:18:41

a better alternative and time happens . And

1:18:43

like players , they

1:18:46

don't drink Cokes before

1:18:48

they go on court anymore . Like

1:18:50

we know that an all spaghetti diet will

1:18:53

make you cramp . Like there are things . Like everything progresses

1:18:55

, but yet like

1:18:57

I will never and I go off on tangents

1:19:00

on this all the time Whenever someone

1:19:02

gives you the reasoning because that's the way it's

1:19:04

always been done when

1:19:06

it comes to progress , inserting

1:19:09

new technologies , everything else it's going

1:19:11

to be a failure . It's going to be a failure

1:19:13

at it . May not show right

1:19:15

away , but then you're going to get to the point where

1:19:17

in a fifth set in a major

1:19:19

where someone's trying to win their first grand

1:19:21

slam , someone double

1:19:23

faults , up a break . It

1:19:26

doesn't get called they re , they

1:19:28

run it back , there's no break . That

1:19:30

is potentially career

1:19:34

changing and it's because

1:19:36

we want someone to trot down

1:19:38

, look around and and

1:19:40

also like the the part where umpires

1:19:42

come in and

1:19:44

explain to players ball

1:19:47

flight and how it lands , as

1:19:49

if we haven't seen it every day for six

1:19:51

hours , from the time we're seven years old . Fuck

1:19:54

off , like we're gonna go , we're gonna . We're

1:19:57

gonna not use exact

1:19:59

line calling , we're not gonna get it right because

1:20:02

we choose not to . And

1:20:04

then we're going to have them explain to a player

1:20:07

how a ball travels , even

1:20:09

though that's the job it

1:20:11

just . It is just like mind blowing . But

1:20:13

then we're going to innovate because we're going

1:20:15

to put some stupid little camera that

1:20:18

looks like a horn on an umpire

1:20:20

so that we can look at players

1:20:22

art , so that we can catch the live

1:20:24

reaction of players reacting

1:20:27

to our shittiness . Like

1:20:29

what the fuck are we doing ? Like

1:20:32

we're gonna bait them .

1:20:33

We're gonna bait them into bitching about what we're

1:20:35

doing , and then

1:20:37

we're gonna videotape them like

1:20:41

really up close and in their face

1:20:43

like I don't know

1:20:45

like

1:20:46

and it's like . It's like a shitty gopro too , it's

1:20:48

like not even . Oh my god .

1:20:49

It's like , you see , like someone arguing and it's like they're

1:20:51

moving , like out of the screen and they're moving . I mean it's just

1:20:53

like what are we doing ? I don't , I just can't

1:20:55

get over it . It's like this was a choice . Putting

1:20:58

this up to translating

1:21:01

marks was a

1:21:03

choice that I'm sure a lot

1:21:05

of people spent a lot of time on , and

1:21:07

I haven't heard a good defense of

1:21:09

it yet . Saying it was a tournament decision

1:21:11

just means it was a bad tournament decision

1:21:13

. That's what I'm hearing .

1:21:16

Wait back up to what you said . I

1:21:18

didn't even think of that . It's absolutely right . We are

1:21:21

just to be clear about this . The chair

1:21:23

umpires here were equipped with this ridiculous

1:21:25

camera . It's like they're miners in the

1:21:27

coal mine .

1:21:27

Yeah , it was a problem . It

1:21:29

was like if my headphone was out here and then it was turned

1:21:31

on . John , right now , and they're like , like

1:21:34

they're taking orders at like Starbucks . I didn't even think of that .

1:21:36

But your point is absolutely right . Use that

1:21:38

camera to watch the the

1:21:41

umpires bend over and look down

1:21:43

at a mark with their own naked eye

1:21:45

. Um , it's like taking a cab to get to

1:21:47

an uber . I mean , it's just . Uh , yeah

1:21:49

, I haven't even thought about it .

1:21:52

But also like okay , so we have this dumb

1:21:54

little and we spent too much time on this , because

1:21:56

, you know , whatever it , shows what it is but

1:21:58

we have this dumb little camera . And for those listening on

1:22:01

pod , like I'm just holding my hand up like it's a dumb little

1:22:03

camera to the side of my face and

1:22:05

then we get to the point where it's

1:22:07

a crucial moment in a fifth set

1:22:09

of a major , on the telecast

1:22:11

we have access to that camera . Zverev

1:22:14

is next to you talking

1:22:16

about it , like saying hold on , hold on , hold

1:22:18

on , look at this . And that's the moment we

1:22:20

don't use it . What is it for

1:22:22

? If you're not going to use it in that moment

1:22:25

? What is the dumb little camera for ?

1:22:27

I'm thinking every single person watching

1:22:29

knew the correct call , except

1:22:31

the three people that it impacted the most

1:22:33

the two competitors in the chair umpire

1:22:36

, don't feel free to cut me off there . Lovely

1:22:38

moment . On Saturday , martina

1:22:44

Navratilova is supposed to hand out the trophy to the winner and Chris

1:22:47

Everett , who was once her fierce rival and

1:22:49

now is as close a friend as you can

1:22:51

have . Martina woke up

1:22:53

and said you know what ? It's been 50 years

1:22:55

since Chrissy won here for the first time

1:22:57

. Yeah , she gave away the trophy last year , but this

1:22:59

is a nice gesture and we're both here

1:23:01

. She's had a bit

1:23:03

of a rough year . Why don't we both do it ? And

1:23:06

you know , saturday morning , these two friends made

1:23:08

a decision and ega vatic

1:23:10

wins this title . And who goes and gives her

1:23:12

the trophy ? But both chris

1:23:14

everett and martina , because martina

1:23:16

just thought that was the right thing to do . We need

1:23:18

more of that . Um , that

1:23:21

that I mean . I don't know that . Yeah I .

1:23:23

So my take on that is like one

1:23:25

the

1:23:28

the , the part of the story that we kind of undersold

1:23:31

there was . Martina has

1:23:33

gone to hell and back

1:23:35

with , with , with cancer , the last

1:23:37

you know , however long and chrissy

1:23:40

the same over the last couple

1:23:42

of years . So there's years . So there's a shared

1:23:44

friendship , there's a shared experience

1:23:46

, shared history and

1:23:48

now all of those things , but with a different

1:23:50

opponent , right and so for

1:23:52

her to extend this handout

1:23:54

to Chrissy in this moment , and

1:23:57

also , like

1:24:00

, if you're Iga Sviatek and

1:24:02

all of a sudden you're accepting

1:24:04

this , this trophy , and

1:24:06

you see two

1:24:08

faces of tennis's Mount Rushmore up

1:24:11

there , and you know the

1:24:13

, the weight of those two

1:24:15

being together , the significance of tennis

1:24:17

history , the significance of , uh

1:24:20

, the fighting spirit , in more

1:24:22

ways than one , it means

1:24:24

more to Iga , it makes her moment more

1:24:26

special , which is kind of the point

1:24:29

right , like we want to celebrate the special

1:24:31

moments in tennis . I

1:24:36

know that you have worked closely with Martina

1:24:38

and Chrissy this year on

1:24:40

a project and I don't know how much you can talk about it If

1:24:42

you can't talk about it at all , great . But

1:24:44

you have had an inside view of that friendship

1:24:46

. I think you're closer to it than

1:24:49

most of us and they just continue to

1:24:53

be kind of the standard

1:24:55

bearers , for we can be enemies

1:24:58

on the court and a

1:25:00

relationship can start with respect

1:25:02

, then it can get to

1:25:04

you know , shared experience , then

1:25:07

it can get to friendship and then it can become what

1:25:09

essentially is a sisterhood . At

1:25:11

this point , this many years later , and I just think it's beautiful

1:25:14

. And they continue to drive home the most important

1:25:16

points that can be made time after time without missing

1:25:19

a note .

1:25:20

That's very well said . I've got to be a little cautious

1:25:23

here . But yeah , I mean I

1:25:25

have no objectivity here , I'm completely compromised

1:25:27

. It's a lovely relationship and I think you

1:25:30

know I mean I think we see this a little with with

1:25:32

Raph and Roger as well I think there's an acknowledgement

1:25:34

of not only are we sort of bracketed

1:25:37

together for history , not only

1:25:39

did we have this rivalry , but you

1:25:41

know not a lot of people know what it's like

1:25:43

to win 18 majors . They have

1:25:45

this shared experience and I think you

1:25:47

know . One time I said to Martina , like how

1:25:50

do you perceive it ? And she says look , everybody says oh

1:25:52

, if Chrissy wasn't there , you would have won so

1:25:54

much more . And she says not so fast . He

1:25:56

pushed me in a way that no one else

1:25:59

did and I am blessed

1:26:01

for her presence . All

1:26:03

right , maybe I would have had a couple more majors if

1:26:05

she hadn't been in the draw , but then again , maybe I never

1:26:07

would have gotten this point because , as

1:26:09

trite as it sounds , rivalry brings out

1:26:12

the best in both parties and it's

1:26:14

really crazy . I mean , this was always sort of

1:26:16

set up as the ultimate contrast

1:26:18

and it's sort of Chrissy

1:26:21

and soft versus hard , and gay and straight

1:26:23

, and east and west and the baseliner versus the

1:26:25

attacker and lefty righty . And here

1:26:27

they are in their 60s and

1:26:29

they are fast friends and

1:26:32

it's not even sort of one of these mutual

1:26:34

respect , as you said . That's

1:26:36

a great word . I mean . There's a real sisterhood

1:26:38

here and it's really . It's really

1:26:40

. I mean it's really been

1:26:42

a pleasure and an honor to see it up close

1:26:45

and in person well , I

1:26:47

don't know that we're going to get any better than than that

1:26:49

.

1:26:50

Uh , as a parting thought uh , john , get

1:26:53

some rest . Uh , back after the break

1:26:55

. Uh , hashtag , get served by andy

1:26:57

roddick . We'll see who this

1:26:59

week's lucky selection , or unlucky

1:27:01

selection , is Back after the break . Thanks , john

1:27:03

, welcome

1:27:06

back to Served on T2

1:27:08

. What a show . I'm

1:27:11

humbled weekly by the content

1:27:14

brought to us by the likes

1:27:16

of Kim Kleisters , the student

1:27:18

of the game , john Wertheim . I

1:27:21

always appreciate their time , never take

1:27:23

it for granted . I always

1:27:25

learn something talking to both of them

1:27:27

. You know , I just think

1:27:29

, as tennis fans right now , we are spoiled

1:27:32

in such a great way . We just witnessed

1:27:34

the greatest generations

1:27:36

, right . We witnessed Serena Williams march through history

1:27:38

. We witnessed Federer , rafa , nadal

1:27:40

, rafa and Nadal , novak

1:27:43

, you know , venus Murray

1:27:45

, the list goes on and on and on . Klysters

1:27:47

, ena Sharapova , and

1:27:50

now we get Iga

1:27:52

already marching through the record

1:27:54

books with five slams . Carlos Alcaraz

1:27:56

, the youngest player of all time to win a slam on three

1:27:58

different surfaces . And

1:28:01

we become victim

1:28:03

of the moments and look forward . Can yannick center overcome

1:28:05

a hip injury ? Can his ? Can he get his legs ? Uh

1:28:08

, back underneath him ? I know the wta wta

1:28:10

tour is salivating over the possibility

1:28:12

of playing ego on anything

1:28:14

except clay . I don't think they want any

1:28:17

more of uh , of that problem

1:28:19

, uh , to solve . So , you , you , you got to think

1:28:21

. Coco's looking forward to the gap the

1:28:23

the grass , sabalenka , rabakina

1:28:25

, they have to be excited to get off

1:28:27

the clay and have to , you know , they get

1:28:29

to solve for IGA on a different service

1:28:31

, which is simultaneously her

1:28:34

worst surface . Can Novak

1:28:36

somehow pull off a miracle and

1:28:38

do Novak type things and get back somehow for Wimbledon and do Novak-type things

1:28:40

and get back somehow for Wimbledon

1:28:42

? And if not Wimbledon , the Olympics , and if not

1:28:44

the Olympics , the US Open

1:28:46

. We all , as tennis fans , as

1:28:49

I said the other day , we

1:28:54

want to see the longest passing of the torch possible from Novak down to center

1:28:56

Alcaraz and , to a lesser extent , medvedev

1:28:58

, et cetera . We are just

1:29:00

so spoiled with the amount of tennis content out there

1:29:02

, the way it's been able to cross over , it

1:29:05

has earned its seat at the global

1:29:07

mainstream sports table and

1:29:09

I think we're all better for having watched

1:29:11

these great champions . And

1:29:13

also I think we get to see one more great champion

1:29:16

here . Mike , what do we got ? Hashtag Get

1:29:18

Served by Roddick , brought to you by Swing

1:29:20

Vision . This

1:29:25

is the part where you hackers send in your videos you brave hackers and

1:29:27

we get to break it down courtesy of the

1:29:30

technology of SwingVision . Who

1:29:32

do we have today ? What are we looking at ?

1:29:34

We have a friend of the show , Ivan Luce , who

1:29:36

sent us a video with the caption

1:29:38

, which I guess we're going to see , where this is leading making

1:29:41

King Curious proud

1:29:43

off to a rocky start

1:29:45

.

1:29:45

okay

1:29:47

, oh

1:29:51

, uh

1:29:53

, on the , you know who that was . That was actually

1:29:56

making murphy jensen proud , because

1:29:58

, as I do , the hot shot on t Live every

1:30:00

time unnecessary

1:30:03

showboating . If

1:30:05

you're a coach , you take Ivan out on

1:30:07

the next play even though he was able to pull it off

1:30:09

somehow . Completely

1:30:13

unnecessary , looks over like

1:30:16

they didn't choreograph the whole thing . Ivan

1:30:18

, thank you for

1:30:20

watching and listening to serve . Thank you for participating

1:30:23

in Swing Vision and unnecessary

1:30:26

showboating 15 yards

1:30:28

. Listen

1:30:30

, this is such a fun segment . I love seeing

1:30:33

the submissions that you guys put in and thanks

1:30:35

for putting yourself out there . It's not easy to

1:30:38

get critiqued . It's certainly not easy to get critiqued

1:30:40

publicly . Ivan , thanks for being

1:30:42

a friend of the Served podcast

1:30:45

. Mike , you got any other thoughts before we get the

1:30:47

hell out of here ?

1:30:49

No , I mean I think we send us some other

1:30:51

videos that maybe aren't tweeners . We're getting lots of tweeners

1:30:53

, you know , let's , let's get . We only have one more

1:30:55

week left .

1:30:56

You know what I feel like I didn't see

1:30:58

it coming . I feel like we're getting a lot of choreographed

1:31:00

sequences that's what I feel like I feel

1:31:02

like people are literally

1:31:04

taking the video and creating their own highlight

1:31:06

reel . Maybe I'm wrong . Maybe I'm

1:31:09

gonna owe ivan loose a written

1:31:11

apology , but that was pretty

1:31:13

nicely in stride by your friend . Best

1:31:15

supporting actor situation , I

1:31:17

don't know , but fun nonetheless . Great

1:31:20

racket skills from ivan . Uh . Thank

1:31:22

you for watching on T2 . In order to get

1:31:24

your submission in for a hashtag , get Served by

1:31:26

Roddick . Producer Mike has some

1:31:28

more info . Thanks for watching .

1:31:30

All right guys . Here's a reminder . Scan

1:31:34

the QR code here on screen if you're watching , or go to swingvision slash

1:31:36

served . The link is also in the bio

1:31:38

. Sign up for Swing Vision . Submit

1:31:40

your best serve or rally to X

1:31:43

or Instagram using the hashtag

1:31:45

Get Served by Roddick and tag

1:31:47

at Swing Vision app . We look forward

1:31:49

to seeing what you got . All you chuckers out there , as

1:31:51

Andy likes to call you . See you next week .