0:00

Greetings , friends , fellows and country people

0:02

. It is I , john , with Shift

0:05

Data data everywhere

0:07

, anonymized . You will be

0:09

Data , data in my care

0:11

, used correctly , the

0:13

value you will see . Today

0:16

we're diving into InVentures

0:18

and a panel that's going to be focused on

0:21

data and the proper

0:23

use of it and where we could go

0:25

wrong if we don't

0:38

use it . Welcome to

0:41

Shift . Ladies

0:45

and gentlemen , today I have Mark Korthias

0:47

, the president and CEO of

0:49

the Glen Rose Hospital Foundation , with

0:52

us . How are you doing , mark ?

0:53

I'm doing fantastic . Great to be

0:55

here .

0:56

Thank you very much for taking the time and joining us

0:58

Now

1:03

. As I understand it , you've got a panel coming up at InVentures and the title of the panel , or the

1:05

working title at this point , is Rethinking

1:07

Approaches to Unlocking

1:10

Health Data . You're going

1:12

to be moderating that panel with some other I

1:14

think a colleague from Alberta Innovates and some other individuals

1:17

. Can you tell me a little bit about what

1:19

people should expect from this panel

1:21

, from the discussion ?

1:23

Yeah , absolutely it was interesting . Expect

1:25

from this panel , from the discussion ? Yeah , absolutely it was interesting . I was invited to

1:27

a Alberta Innovates event a few months back and

1:29

there was a panel at the event and

1:31

it was with Tim Murphy , who's

1:33

the vice president with Alberta Innovates , and

1:35

a gentleman by the name of Dr Ewan Affleck

1:37

who's been leading this health

1:39

data work and

1:41

was one of the physicians who actually

1:44

built out a fully integrated health data system in the Northwest Territories , one of the physicians

1:46

who actually built out a fully integrated health data system in the Northwest

1:48

Territories , one of the first in Canada . And

1:50

I was at this event with

1:52

Helperd Innovates and I was listening to Tim

1:55

and Ewan talk about health

1:57

data and for me , I've

1:59

had a pretty cursory level

2:01

knowledge of health data . I understand

2:03

that data is important across

2:05

all disciplines , health in particular

2:08

. But listening to Tim

2:10

and you and talk at that event , I was really

2:12

captured by the work that they

2:14

were doing , in the way in which they were trying to rethink

2:17

the notion of health

2:19

data . You know , one of the big misconceptions

2:23

I think they're trying to undo is that the

2:26

only consideration to

2:28

think about when it comes to health data is the

2:30

privacy consideration , so ensuring

2:34

that your data is private is of

2:36

utmost concern

2:38

consideration

2:40

. But what Tim and Ewan

2:43

and a number of other individuals

2:46

across the healthcare system , academia

2:55

and industry have done is starting to unpack some of the other related harms that come with

2:57

suboptimal data capture in the healthcare system , and so they've produced

2:59

a series of reports , which we'll

3:02

speak to in VentVentures , with

3:04

the panel talking about some

3:06

of the other forms of harm that

3:09

occur when you don't have the right data

3:11

or optimal data at

3:13

your fingertips when you're a clinician or

3:17

individual that's dealing with patients , and so

3:19

the notion of the

3:22

forms of harm outside privacy really

3:24

piqued my interest , and you know

3:26

, at our hospital , the Glen Rose Rehabilitation

3:28

Hospital , our foundation we've very much been focused

3:30

on health innovation , the

3:33

utilization of health technology to improve

3:35

outcomes for patients , and

3:39

data is the lifeblood of health service

3:41

, and so I have a particular

3:43

interest selfishly , in my day

3:45

job to ensure that we're able

3:47

to have data cut

3:50

across multiple domains so that we can

3:52

ensure that those that are providing care

3:54

have the best information at their fingertips

3:56

. So that's , in a nutshell , what

3:58

the panel is going to be discussing .

4:00

Okay , so now , when I think about health

4:02

data and privacy

4:04

and everything you've just mentioned , I

4:07

think about when an

4:09

individual's in the hospital and maybe

4:11

they transition from room to room

4:13

or ward to ward

4:15

, and oftentimes you'll see there's

4:18

a repetition of questions they don't

4:20

have . Maybe they don't have access

4:22

, or it appears sometimes that the access isn't

4:24

there to the patient data . Is

4:26

this some of the stuff you're talking about ?

4:29

EMRs , emergency medical records , that sort of thing

4:31

Absolutely , and not only in one

4:34

healthcare setting , but

4:36

as a patient . We're all patients

4:38

. We go and visit a

4:40

number of different clinics and sites

4:43

, and they live within different

4:45

systems and institutions , and sometimes

4:47

those institutions aren't , oftentimes

4:50

those institutions aren't able to share data

4:52

in a frictionless way , in which

4:54

it's provided to

4:56

those that need it in a timely fashion

4:59

and in a way in which they're

5:01

able to capture as much data as

5:04

they possibly can . And so

5:06

it's not only inside single

5:09

sites hospitals or clinics but it's

5:11

ensuring that we have the

5:14

mechanisms and technologies

5:17

in place so that we can share data across

5:19

multiple domains , whether

5:22

that be in hospital settings , primary

5:24

care or even in private

5:26

settings as well . And so you

5:29

know , I think a lot of folks

5:31

have tried to tackle this problem over the years

5:34

, and they've looked at it from purely

5:36

a technological lens or , you

5:38

know , thinking about the financial

5:41

constraints or the privacy concerns

5:43

and or the resistance to

5:45

change . But you know , what Ewan and

5:47

Tim and others have been really

5:49

pushing which has personally interested me

5:52

as well is that this is really

5:54

a human interoperability

5:56

issue in the ability for

5:58

individuals across

6:01

systems to coordinate

6:03

and govern health data

6:05

in a different way . And so you

6:07

know what Tim and Ewan and

6:10

the Alberta Virtual Care Coordinating

6:12

Body , which is the consortium

6:14

that's leading this work , have been saying

6:16

is that we need to have a

6:18

different governance approach to

6:21

how we try to tackle this problem , because

6:24

, even though the technical challenges

6:27

are difficult

6:29

, it's really how we govern and

6:31

think about this work and

6:33

need to think about this work in a different way that

6:35

needs to be first

6:37

addressed before we tackle everything else , and

6:40

so they've been utilizing what's

6:42

called a collective impact approach , whereby

6:44

there's not one single entity

6:47

that's responsible for this work . It's across

6:49

a multitude of domains

6:51

that's going to help solve this problem , and

6:54

so that's been really interesting to me as

6:56

well .

6:57

I'm sure . Now , what role does the

6:59

patient play in all of this , because

7:03

you're already talking about multiple partners coming

7:05

together and solving

7:07

this problem .

7:09

Yeah , and that's very much been a focus

7:11

of this work as well , and I know Dr

7:14

Affleck and Tim have very

7:16

much ensured that as part of their reports

7:19

, that the patient voice

7:21

is at the table right at the beginning

7:24

, and what they've been recommending

7:26

is ensuring that . You know , everything is

7:28

designed with

7:30

the patient in mind . So very much patient-centric

7:33

, and I know the healthcare systems , yeah

7:36

, have been espousing

7:38

that mantra for many , many

7:40

years patient-centricity

7:42

. But we very much live

7:44

in a system that is based

7:47

upon the service providers

7:49

, that is centered around

7:52

, and so the

7:54

health data interoperability work is very

7:57

much inclusive of patients

7:59

and keeping that at the center . Because

8:01

you know as much as you can talk about

8:03

, you know the pedantic technological

8:06

terms and get lost

8:09

in all of the nuances of what

8:12

health data is , what interoperability means

8:14

. You know the ultimate goal

8:16

is just to ensure that when somebody

8:18

is in need of healthcare services

8:21

, that they're able to receive the best care possible

8:23

, and information provided

8:27

to the clinicians about past

8:29

experiences health history is

8:33

critically important to ensure that happens , and

8:35

so that's . You know , the crux of what

8:37

this work is trying to undertake is ensure that

8:39

patients receive the best care possible , and

8:42

in order to do that you need to have them at the table at

8:45

the very beginning of the work and throughout the process

8:48

to ensure that you know we don't just

8:50

repeat our past histories

8:52

around making it service centric , not patient centric

8:54

.

8:55

Yeah , and what I find interesting about all this

8:57

you know I've

8:59

got a very superficial understanding of

9:02

, you know , health data . But

9:05

I'm also the quickest guy to slap

9:07

my visa onto a website when I want

9:09

to go buy something . And

9:11

then I think about health data and I'm like , oh you

9:14

know , all of a sudden you kind of people tense

9:16

up a little bit , Mm , hmm . But on

9:19

the flip side , you know , we can just

9:21

be quick to put

9:23

all sorts of data out there . Social

9:26

media is a perfect example of that as well . How

9:29

do you , from your perspective , how

9:31

do you think about that , reconciling

9:33

those two sort of difficulties

9:37

?

9:38

Yeah , it is an interesting

9:40

philosophical question because you're right . It

9:42

is an interesting philosophical question because , you're

9:45

right , you

9:52

know we've really let go of our privacy

9:54

, you know , across all of the technologies

9:57

that we utilize is understandable

9:59

, because individuals don't

10:01

want their health data

10:04

to be made public or to be released

10:06

to anybody that they haven't

10:08

given permissions towards

10:10

, and so

10:12

I think what the work that Tim and you

10:15

and the Alberta Virtual Care Community Body

10:17

are trying to highlight

10:19

to the community and the public

10:21

and to government and policymakers , is

10:23

that privacy is but

10:25

one risk

10:27

factor to consider when we're talking

10:29

about health data . There are a number of other

10:32

related harms that aren't

10:34

considered whatsoever and need to be

10:36

considered , and so

10:38

you know simple things like

10:40

not having

10:42

the proper health

10:45

information at your fingertips . If you're a

10:47

clinician and then giving a

10:49

patient a medication or some form

10:51

of treatment , that is going to have

10:54

a adverse effect based

10:56

upon their

10:58

health at that point in time , and so that

11:00

is another form of harm health

11:04

at that point in time and so that is another form of harm . And Tim and Ewan outline nine

11:07

different forms of harm in one of the recent Health Data Interoperability

11:09

Saves Lives report , and that's what

11:11

we're going to dive into a bit more , and I think

11:13

, more than anything , if this

11:15

work is to be successful

11:18

, it's through advocating

11:21

to policymakers and government officials

11:23

that there's a number of other factors

11:25

to consider when we think about health information

11:28

and health data than simply privacy

11:30

. But it's a part

11:32

of a public advocacy

11:35

campaign as well , because you also have to educate

11:37

the public , yourself and

11:39

myself included . Yourself

11:46

and myself included , because you know , up until nine months ago , before I heard

11:48

you and tim talk about this , I never I was like you were , or I was like the general

11:50

patient . Where I'm like , privacy

11:52

is the biggest issue as it relates to health data and I I'm

11:55

going to stop thinking about it because it's legislated

11:57

and I am . It's about

11:59

my pay grade to go start thinking about how

12:01

to change legislation , but then

12:04

when you start thinking about the other forms of harm

12:06

or when that's brought to your attention , it's

12:08

a really interesting new

12:11

set of information for you to look

12:13

at and go huh , and then you start to reflect

12:15

upon your experiences in the health care

12:17

system , and then the experience that

12:19

maybe some of your family members had , and

12:21

you start to reflect on well , maybe

12:31

the best data wasn't presented at the right time for my dad , for example , who

12:33

was diagnosed with stage four brain cancer glioblastoma , and there was any number

12:35

of incidents along

12:37

his journey that

12:40

I reflected on going . Yeah , there's probably

12:42

some forms of harm

12:45

related to the suboptimal

12:47

health data that was presented at critical

12:50

junctures in his recovery

12:54

or attempted recovery that would

12:56

have been more important to

12:59

have rather than just have his privacy

13:02

contained , you know .

13:04

Yeah Well , first off , I'm sorry to hear

13:06

that . Secondly , the

13:10

way you articulated that made me think of

13:12

family members of mine

13:14

who have been through treatment

13:17

care . Those

13:20

critical junctures Like that , to me

13:22

is key , because there have been many points where I'm like , hey

13:24

, yeah , but what , what , if , why , you

13:27

know ? And so this , this is obviously

13:29

critical work to be undertaken , and

13:32

you've kind of implied the answer to my next question

13:34

in your previous statements , but I was

13:36

going to say who would be the ideal

13:38

attendee for this session

13:40

. I'm hearing like public

13:43

, obviously , because you need to advocate policymakers

13:46

, but entrepreneurs

13:48

there's that noise I said I wouldn't

13:50

make . No , it's fine . Who do

13:53

you think should be coming to your session

13:55

to learn more about what

13:57

are you talking ?

13:58

about Anybody that's interested

14:00

in health innovation

14:02

and the utilization of health technologies

14:05

to improve patient outcomes . So innovators

14:09

, technologists , entrepreneurs

14:12

or startup companies that are

14:14

thinking about utilizing health

14:17

data as part of their platforms

14:19

, I think it's important for them to

14:21

at least listen and understand that there

14:25

are people working towards ensuring

14:27

that we have better access to better data

14:29

that's ultimately going to help improve

14:31

their service and company . Policymakers

14:35

, you know , most definitely should

14:37

come and listen , especially

14:39

around the nine forms of

14:41

harm around

14:43

health data that we are not talking about whatsoever

14:45

, and that is a critical consideration

14:48

for them , especially

14:50

now in Alberta , when

14:52

the government is transforming

14:55

the health care system . This

14:57

is an opportune time for them

14:59

to rethink some of the legacy

15:02

policies that have been in place , and , you

15:04

know , across a lot of these domains , we are , you

15:07

know , utilizing analog policies

15:09

in a digital world and it's time

15:11

to upgrade the software system , and

15:14

so policymakers , government officials should

15:16

definitely be there , academics

15:19

as well , who have an interest in health

15:22

information systems , health data and

15:25

just system thinking generally would

15:27

be interested . Those that are interested in systems

15:30

and governance and how to coordinate

15:32

a complex array of stakeholders

15:34

to achieve an outcome without

15:37

having one centralized hierarchy

15:39

saying that they're in complete control

15:42

of the work . Those

15:44

people would be interested , like

15:47

that's . What really interests me is how

15:49

do you decentralize decision making in

15:51

a way that can still ensure

15:54

that the work moves forward , and

15:56

I think that's what the collective impact model governance

15:59

structure here represents , and so

16:01

I mean it's a fascinating

16:03

topic , and I would say that Tim

16:06

Murphy and Ewan Affleck

16:09

and the third panelist , ray

16:11

Yu , who is an entrepreneur , are

16:13

incredibly insightful individuals

16:15

who have done the work

16:18

, and Ewan

16:20

, in particular , has the scars

16:22

to prove it from

16:24

his decades long efforts

16:26

in the Northwest Territories , and

16:28

so I think it's going to be a very thought provoking

16:31

panel , with individuals

16:33

who have a depth of knowledge that's

16:36

really probably unmatched

16:38

in this space in Canada .

16:41

That's really profound and I think it should

16:43

make for a great discussion . And I'm not

16:46

going to ask you what those nine

16:48

areas are , because we

16:50

want people to go and check out the panel

16:53

, but for those attendees or

16:55

for those people that don't make it to InVentures

16:57

, well , bummer , no

17:00

Will . I think it's fascinating and I'm

17:02

sure there's content that people can get off the

17:05

Alberta Innovates website , or

17:07

we'll write an article about

17:09

the follow-up , or maybe Mark will follow up

17:11

with you post-event

17:14

and talk a little bit

17:16

more about this where we can reveal some of those secrets

17:18

. But I just quickly want

17:20

to understand a little more about you . So

17:23

you're the president and CEO at the Glen Rose

17:25

Hospital Foundation . What's your background

17:27

? Where'd you come from ? How'd you get this gig ?

17:31

Yeah , you know , like many people , I

17:35

stumbled into it . You know , over time , you

17:38

know , I don't think I ever set out 20

17:41

years ago after university that you

17:43

know I'm going to be the president and CEO of

17:45

a hospital foundation . You

18:09

know I'm going to be the president and CEO of a hospital foundation , yet this is the second role in which I've been the president and CEO with a BA in psychology

18:12

, even though it was , you know , I was there for soccer first and then at the end I thought , oh , I should probably really try to get out of here with a degree

18:14

. And so I had always had an interest

18:17

in health and well-being

18:19

and mental health , and so I'd

18:21

spent a lot of my career

18:23

actually working on

18:25

delivering virtual

18:28

education programming to

18:30

residents of the far north in

18:32

Saskatchewan , indigenous communities in particular

18:34

. And so I've always had an interest

18:36

in the utilization of

18:39

digital , of technologies

18:41

, to provide better

18:43

access to , you know , education

18:45

, better access to education , healthcare

18:48

, etc . And

18:56

so , over time , it was natural for me to move into the space where I could work on

18:58

technology issues as well as health

19:00

issues , and so I'd previously

19:03

been the CEO of the Alberta Mental Health Foundation

19:05

. We had done a lot of work around delivering

19:08

virtual mental health care and

19:11

different products and services

19:13

to really scale out impact

19:16

. And what I learned from that experience was that

19:18

you know you can't hire enough

19:20

clinical staff to

19:23

solve what is a

19:25

national crisis as it relates to mental

19:27

illness , and so there has to be different

19:30

ways to do that that's cost , efficient , scalable

19:32

and easily accessible

19:34

, and so technologies offer

19:37

, you know , a solution in that regard , because

19:39

they're cheap , they're scalable and

19:43

they can be utilized in the comfort

19:45

of an individual's home or community . And when

19:48

the opportunity with the Glen Rose came up , the

19:52

intriguing aspect of it was that

19:54

the Glen Rose Rehabilitation Hospital

19:56

has always been a leader for

19:58

many decades actually in trying

20:02

to figure out how to best utilize new

20:04

technologies to deliver better

20:07

care for patients that have physical

20:10

or mental or neurological illness

20:12

, and so to have a

20:14

culture like that within a healthcare

20:16

system , and a massive healthcare system that

20:19

is Alberta Health Services , was

20:21

really intriguing and exciting

20:23

to me , and to be able to have the chance

20:25

to build on

20:28

the work that had been done over

20:30

the years was super interesting

20:32

. And so now to be able to work and

20:36

support things like brain computer interfaces

20:38

in the pediatric population

20:41

, robotics , exoskeletons

20:43

, working with small to medium-sized

20:46

enterprises so they can test , trial and validate

20:48

their new technologies and

20:50

software platforms is

20:52

really exciting and , more generally

20:54

, it's an exciting time in

20:56

Alberta in the health innovation

20:59

ecosystem and really in the technology

21:01

ecosystem more broadly , because

21:03

there's so many startups

21:05

. I would say the government , in particular

21:08

Minister Nate Glubish , who

21:10

oversees Alberta Innovates file

21:12

and the technology file , is

21:15

a tremendous advocate and

21:17

a very knowledgeable individual who has

21:19

that portfolio , and Alberta

21:22

Innovates , through Tim

21:24

Murphy's office with health , has been doing

21:26

just a tremendous job in

21:28

helping to build this ecosystem out , and

21:30

so for all those reasons , I thought this

21:32

is a really neat opportunity to

21:35

be able to help , you

21:37

know , grow what has already been put in place

21:39

at the Glen Rose , but also be able

21:42

to be a part of this great ecosystem here

21:44

in Alberta .

21:45

Well , it takes a community , and it's sure

21:48

a pleasure to get to know you , mark , and

21:50

hear about your background and the work that's going on , and

21:53

I'm excited to check the panel out

21:55

. I'll be there and again

21:58

, thanks for your time . This was great .

22:00

Hey , thanks for having me . I look forward to seeing

22:02

you in Calgary at the end of May

22:04

.

22:05

Calgary at the end

22:07

of May . Shift can be found online at shiftalbertainnovatesca

22:11

, where you can reach us via email at shift

22:14

at albertainnovatesca

22:16

. We can also be found on your favorite

22:18

streaming service , so

22:22

dive in and enjoy .

22:30

Until next time

22:33

, I'm John .