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You're listening to Shortwave

0:21

from NPR. Mansu

0:25

Rahman started working for NASA in 1989 to

0:28

help design something they'd never done before. The

0:30

International Space Station. Up

0:32

to that point, U.S.

0:33

missions had been short enough that astronauts

0:35

could take along enough clean air and water to

0:37

get through the flight. They told us our

0:40

job was to basically design

0:42

air and water systems for a crew that would stay

0:45

up to six months up in space

0:47

in low Earth orbit, and

0:50

that they were going to recycle water and air. So

0:52

it was like, this is really

0:54

funny. We'll see if we can make that

0:57

work.

0:58

Mansu had moved to the U.S. a couple years earlier

1:00

from Puerto Rico to get a master's degree in microbial

1:02

ecology, and now she

1:04

was the chief microbiologist for

1:07

life support systems on a space station.

1:10

Although as it would turn out, planning for

1:12

how the biology of tiny microbes

1:14

would affect the station

1:16

meant she was going to spend a lot of time

1:18

investigating human biology. For

1:20

the first time, we were going to be recycling the water

1:23

for the crew to drink. And when I

1:25

mean recycling, we were going to be using

1:27

the urine. At that time, we were also

1:29

looking at the recycling of the shower water

1:32

and the humidity condensate to

1:34

return back to the crew for drinking. But

1:37

the urine was the one that took everybody's breath

1:39

away. Like, oh my gosh, you know, we're going to be drinking

1:41

water recycled from urine. You know, that is

1:43

pretty nasty.

1:48

So there's a lot of microbiological

1:50

implications of a system like

1:52

that. The first thing they had to figure out was

1:54

what sort of microbes were going to grow

1:57

in tanks full of urine and

1:59

condensed

1:59

sweat. Perhaps not

2:02

surprisingly, there was not a

2:04

lot of research on this subject.

2:06

So we enrolled a bunch

2:08

of people working in our

2:10

NASA center to come and donate IURN

2:14

and humidity condensate and things like that

2:16

that we needed and then we did the analysis ourselves

2:20

to find out what things were in there.

2:22

Figuring this out wasn't just about cleaning

2:24

the water. Microbiologists were

2:26

starting to learn about a new threat called biofilms,

2:30

or communities of microbes that grow together

2:32

on surfaces and that can potentially

2:34

break down those surfaces, which

2:37

if you're floating in a tiny metal can

2:39

in the vacuum of space could mean the

2:42

difference between life and death.

2:43

In the Mir space station which also

2:45

was a Russian space station, we

2:48

have starting to hear rumors that

2:51

the bacteria was starting to attach

2:53

to the epoxy on the window

2:56

of their station and it was starting to eat

2:58

the material. To

3:02

the engineers on the team, the solution was

3:04

simple. Make the entire space station

3:07

almost sterile.

3:08

And so that was kind of like a joke

3:10

for us the microbiologist because it

3:12

was like almost sterile, it's like almost pregnant.

3:15

You're either pregnant or you're not pregnant. You

3:17

know, so you're either sterile which means no

3:19

microorganisms or not.

3:21

And the microbiologists knew that if you are

3:23

going to have humans, you are

3:25

going to have microorganisms. So the

3:27

question became,

3:28

what kind of organisms can

3:31

we accept in the atmosphere

3:33

or in our water, right? So how

3:35

many of them, you know, which ones are the

3:37

important ones to keep an eye

3:38

on? They also tested out what sort of

3:40

materials they should use and what humidity

3:43

and temperature they should keep everything at to discourage

3:45

microbial growth. Plus how

3:47

to keep things clean like vacuuming

3:50

out floating food particles from the air

3:52

filters. In the beginning,

3:54

Monsieur says figuring out all these systems

3:56

and how they would all work together to keep the astronauts

3:59

alive. was like a detective game.

4:01

We were very lucky back then that we had

4:03

the opportunity to have an immense laboratory

4:06

where we can do any testing we wanted

4:08

to do. But

4:09

as the launch drew closer, the pressure mounted.

4:11

It was time to stop all that and

4:14

just go ahead and build equipment and

4:17

then literally stop

4:20

breathing ourselves when all

4:22

the systems were turned on in

4:24

space. Because by the

4:27

time they were turned on, we actually had people

4:29

there, right? And so

4:31

the air systems were that important, right?

4:35

And then of course, when they started drinking for the first

4:37

time. The Expedition 19 crew inaugurating

4:40

the use of the water

4:42

recovery system.

4:43

That was an amazing thing. Here

4:45

we go. And here's to you guys and here's to everybody

4:47

who made this all happen. Cheers!

4:53

Cheers!

4:54

Today on the show, we close out Latinx

4:56

Heritage Month by talking with the trailblazing

4:59

microbiologist Monsi Roman

5:01

about microbes in space and

5:03

all the risk and potential they

5:06

pose for future exploration. I'm

5:08

Aaron Scott. You're listening to Shortwave from

5:11

NPR.

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6:30

When Moncey started working on the space station,

6:32

the term microbiome wasn't

6:34

yet widely used. But the idea

6:36

that there were these diverse colonies of bacteria,

6:40

fungi, and other tiny organisms living

6:42

in any environment was understood,

6:45

at least by microbiologists. And

6:47

that meant that the very first living

6:49

things to reside on the International

6:51

Space Station were not astronauts,

6:54

they were microbes.

6:55

It's just like walking inside your house

6:57

or walking inside a building, there's microorganisms

7:00

everywhere. And then people started coming in,

7:02

right? And not only people, people from all

7:05

over the world eating all

7:07

kinds of different food. But with the food

7:09

also came all kinds of other

7:11

things.

7:11

Basically, the space station became

7:14

a giant floating Petri dish in low Earth

7:16

orbit.

7:17

And the funny thing is that each

7:20

astronaut comes up with their own microflora,

7:22

right? And when they come down, they have

7:24

already shared their microorganisms.

7:27

So not necessarily a bad thing at all.

7:30

It's just something that happens if you're

7:32

in an enclosed environment.

7:35

With somebody very close,

7:36

you probably are sharing a lot of your

7:38

microbes. So it's kind of like this

7:41

space station develops its own microbiome

7:44

that all the astronauts share and bring

7:47

back to Earth.

7:47

That is correct. And that is one of the biggest

7:51

conundrums, I guess I'm going to call it, on

7:53

how we're going to deal with the future long-term

7:56

exploration missions to Mars

7:59

and beyond. because you do not want

8:01

to completely clean it up. Number

8:03

one, we know we cannot sterilize it, right? And then

8:05

number two is how much is good

8:08

enough because you want to also

8:10

keep your immune system challenged, right? Let's

8:13

just put an example of the pandemic right now. Everybody

8:15

stayed home, everybody wore a mask, pretty

8:17

much, you know? So when everybody

8:20

got exposed back to everybody else,

8:22

they started getting sick, right? Because

8:24

your immune system was, you

8:26

kept it pretty contained.

8:29

So, you know, for exploration, now we have

8:31

to figure out how much is too

8:34

much. And more important,

8:36

you know, which ones of those microorganisms

8:39

we do not want at all, which

8:41

ones of those we want to control and how

8:43

we control just a few, not all of them,

8:45

you know? It's gonna be a very

8:48

interesting exercise on trying

8:50

to figure out all those things to keep our astronauts,

8:53

you know, healthy enough or when they land, they can

8:55

do their mission.

8:55

Moncee says it's a balancing act. And

8:58

in the 25 years since the station launched,

9:01

they've managed to make it work.

9:02

Once in a while, we would see something

9:05

on a wall, for example, on the Russian part

9:07

of the station, they had a wall

9:09

where they, for some reason, the

9:14

Russians will hang towels that were

9:16

wet after exercising and

9:19

eventually those walls started growing mold.

9:22

So that is something that had to be dealt with

9:25

pretty early in the station. Other

9:27

than that, they has not been reported

9:29

any major issues in

9:32

the station related to microorganisms.

9:34

And so no microbes growing on like the

9:36

epoxy on the windows the way that they had

9:38

in the Russian space station. That

9:39

is correct, right? It is gonna be interesting

9:42

to watch how things, you know, evolve

9:44

because one of the things we do know about

9:46

microorganisms, they adapt very, very,

9:49

very easily, right? So

9:51

things that we might not

9:53

predict might happen because they might be

9:55

put in a position of having

9:57

to use epoxy, for example. to

10:00

survive because otherwise they're going to die. So

10:02

one or two survive that they mutate because

10:05

bacteria mutates all the time. That's nothing

10:07

terrible. It's something that happens all the

10:09

time on earth everywhere. So,

10:12

um, so it's just going to be something

10:14

to watch. This is the beauty

10:16

of station or anything like, and anything

10:19

that we do, it is about learning

10:21

continuously learning.

10:25

So the field has come a very, very

10:27

long ways, but still has so much. Distance

10:30

to go. Yes. Yes.

10:32

Yes. And, and as we start

10:34

evolving from a NASA based

10:36

space station to commercial

10:38

space stations, which is what I am currently working

10:40

to start that transition in

10:43

station and in long exploration

10:45

missions and especially in planetary missions, we're

10:48

going to have to get very creative and very

10:50

good about using. What is it that we

10:52

have available to us? So

10:54

we don't continue to bring other things, right. And

10:58

the possibility of learning not to pollute

11:00

those places that we visit or

11:03

the stations or the

11:05

spacecraft that we're in, right? So

11:08

making, making sure they're stayed clean, making

11:10

sure that we recycle, reuse and repurpose

11:13

everything almost a hundred percent, right?

11:16

A lot of that, you know, in many

11:18

areas, um, that are going

11:20

to be affected by microbes, because now you

11:22

can also see, see the power

11:24

of microorganisms helping us perhaps

11:27

recycling, you know? And

11:29

so using microorganisms in ways

11:31

that, you know, before they were our enemy,

11:33

now they are our friends, you know, to decompose

11:36

certain materials that before we couldn't

11:38

do, right? So all those things are

11:40

incredibly exciting to me because,

11:43

um, now we're not only trying

11:45

to control the microorganisms that could

11:48

make people sick, but also use them for

11:50

the right things to make life

11:52

better there and here on the ground too.

11:56

It's been a lot of.

11:59

Have fun to talk microbes in space

12:02

with you. Thank you for joining us.

12:03

It has been a pleasure. I

12:06

will die a microbiologist. It doesn't matter

12:08

what I ever do. I'm always, you

12:10

know, yeah.

12:16

This episode was produced by Rachel

12:18

Carlson, edited by our managing producer,

12:20

Rebecca Ramirez, and back-checked by Anil

12:22

Ozav. Our audio engineer was

12:24

Maggie Luther, and we'd like to thank Andy

12:27

Huthar as well. Beth Donovan is our

12:29

senior director, and Ania Grunman is

12:31

our senior vice president.

12:33

I'm Scott, and thank you as always for

12:35

listening to her voice.

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