0:01

This episode is brought to you by

0:03

Snapple. Want to know another Snapple fact?

0:05

The first hot air balloon passengers were

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a sheep, a duck, and a rooster.

0:11

Ridiculous. Check out snapple.com to find

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ridiculously flavored Snapple near you. Hello,

0:17

this is Simon and Mark here. Today, Ben

0:19

and Nimona looking at Chandler Bing. He's the

0:21

sarcastic, self-deprecating, and commitment phobic one from friends.

0:23

I'm sure we all know a few people

0:25

like that. A lot to dig into then.

0:28

Enjoy the show. Do send us your thoughts

0:30

on the show and suggestions for characters for

0:32

Ben and Nimona to cover. To

0:34

shrink the box at sonymusic.com. I'm

0:37

Susie Moss. Fourth grade,

0:40

glasses. I used to carry on

0:42

a box of animal crackers like a purse. Susie

0:45

Moss. Right, yeah.

0:48

Wow. You look great

0:51

job growing up. Remember

0:53

the class play? You

0:55

pulled up my skirt and the entire auditorium's on

0:58

my underpants. Yes,

1:01

back then I used humor as

1:03

a defense mechanism. Thank

1:05

God I don't do that anymore. Ben

1:13

Bailey-Smith here. And I am Nimona-Texas. And

1:15

could there be a

1:17

more suitable place to put

1:19

TV's most talked about characters into therapy

1:21

than this? I don't know why I'm

1:23

doing it in that tone. Actually I

1:25

do. That's because... It's Bing-like. That's Bing

1:27

delivery. And it's Bing week. It's Bing

1:29

week. And of course, you know,

1:31

shrinkers you will know this. But for any new

1:34

listeners that have joined us, thank you very much

1:36

for joining the game. Oh, thank you. Yeah, we

1:38

will be psychoanalyzing the iconic characters

1:41

of television and working out

1:43

what makes them tick and what we can learn

1:45

from it. I mean, what a great place for

1:47

us to start with Chandler. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

1:50

because before we did Ross and Monica siblings

1:53

focus and I wasn't 100% sure

1:55

that was going to be the depth there,

1:57

but there totally was. And you

1:59

know, friends is... It's almost twice as

2:01

important in a way because it's so widely

2:04

consumed. So what we learn about human behaviour

2:06

from friends is actually probably more wide-reaching than

2:08

a much more deeper psychological drama that only

2:10

a few people watch. I mean, this, friends

2:13

really has just grown and grown and grown

2:15

and grown since it landed. Yeah, it's

2:17

a monster. Well, come on to that. I'm

2:20

going to... That's a moment of self-reflection

2:22

from Chandler. In that opening clip? Yeah.

2:25

Yeah. Met this girl

2:27

who, it doesn't sound like he

2:30

recognises initially at all, played by

2:32

Julia Roberts, Susie Moss, very old

2:34

classmate of Chandler's. And in that

2:36

we can hear that he's only

2:38

too aware of how he behaves.

2:41

Around women, but just generally. Yeah, he's

2:43

not a huge fan of himself, is

2:45

he, Chandler? So... Not

2:48

at all. And

2:50

I think, am I reaching it? I feel

2:52

like he's most people's favourite character. He's my

2:54

favourite character. Definitely my favourite character. And

2:57

probably because he's the funniest. Of course, when

2:59

did friends start? You

3:01

ready for this? Four. So

3:04

I was still a child, but old enough

3:06

to get comedy, of course. You know, the

3:09

early teens. And I think heading

3:12

into your teens, that sort of

3:14

flavour of sarcasm and self-deprecation, I

3:16

think that's always going to speak

3:19

to a younger audience. So maybe that's why he

3:21

was my favourite. Well, ask people to tell us.

3:23

What do you think? If he is your favourite

3:25

character, and if so, why? And

3:28

how the others fare against him. I

3:30

mean, always, we're keen to hear what

3:32

you're thinking, what we've missed,

3:36

how it's sounding and what you think about

3:38

the characters and their issues. So please keep

3:40

in touch. shrinkthebox.com. So he's a dot com.

3:43

I think, actually, let's mention before we get

3:45

into Chandler about Matthew Perry's death and the

3:47

legacy of that. So was

3:50

this the only role that he was

3:53

known for, Bann? I mean, I would

3:55

say so when you play iconic characters.

3:58

Very tough, isn't it? Yeah. I

4:00

guess the way to accept it is that you

4:02

did such a good job that people

4:04

just see you as that guy. I

4:07

suppose the biggest shame is that we

4:09

probably never saw his true potential

4:11

because he was dealing with so much, so

4:15

many issues around his addiction outside

4:18

of every day at work on

4:20

Friends. So, you know, he

4:22

probably never put himself in the position to go

4:24

off and do something a bit

4:27

more interesting or something else even funnier

4:29

or more complex or whatever. It

4:31

is utterly tragic. He died at

4:33

54, addicted to prescription painkillers from

4:36

the age of 14, actually,

4:39

after a jet skiing accident, according to

4:41

his memoir. And we've since learned so

4:43

much more about the devastation caused by

4:45

the painkiller epidemic in the States and

4:48

the UK. It's mad. He also

4:50

talked about being routinely drunk and living

4:52

in and out of rehab, actually filming

4:54

the later episodes of Friends, which you've

4:56

just alluded to. And I suppose that

4:58

is testament to his skill in some way

5:00

that you couldn't really tell

5:02

that from watching. He was a master at

5:05

masking. I mean, he will be

5:07

greatly missed and there is so much to talk about

5:09

here. However, for this particular show, we are going to

5:11

focus on Chandler, the character, not Matthew

5:13

Perry. Yeah, that would be unfair for

5:15

sure. But it would have felt remiss, I think, not

5:17

to name check the man who gave Chandler his heart.

5:19

Yeah, big time. Yeah, greatly

5:22

missed. And there we go. Rest

5:24

in peace, Matthew Perry. On with the show. We're

5:27

going to find out why Chandler is

5:29

so down on himself and why

5:31

him and Monica visit a Las Vegas drag

5:33

night. And why,

5:35

why in God's name does he keep going

5:37

back to Giannis in that voice? If

5:40

you're one of those rare people who hasn't

5:42

watched most of Friends or at least enough

5:45

Friends to know about what the deal is, then

5:47

we will be giving some stuff away. No one

5:49

gets murdered, though. You know, there's no. No,

5:53

am I wrong? I might be wrong, actually.

5:55

Well, none of the principal cast. No. OK.

5:57

Six Friends that start. Yeah, but they will.

6:00

be there will be some level of spoilers so

6:02

look out for that but welcome as ever to

6:04

Shrink the Box. Alright

6:11

so for some of us in

6:14

the moment myself for sure Friends

6:16

was a lifetime ago so here's

6:19

a quick look at the character arc of

6:21

Mr Bing. So we meet him as a

6:23

young awkward sort of commitment phobe he's living

6:26

with his best friend Joey he's

6:28

an old classmate of Ross's college mate

6:30

I think of Ross's his thing is

6:32

like hanging around with his friends awkward

6:34

encounters with various women and we see

6:37

him and Monica have a little frisson

6:39

they go from sleeping together in secret

6:42

to revealing to their friends that they are in

6:44

love and Charlie chases his dream of becoming a

6:46

copywriter and they end up

6:48

settling in the burbs and adopt twins Jack

6:50

and Erica that's a spoiler laden

6:53

intro I was gonna say to Mr Bing

6:55

give some away we've given it all away

6:58

that's it that's everything so we've got all

7:00

that in our heads Namon tell us a

7:02

bit more about your client he is

7:04

male living in New York mid

7:06

to late 20s into mid 30s

7:08

of course because we follow Friends

7:10

through a decade or so

7:14

single they're married to Monica very single to

7:16

begin with lots of dating

7:18

and then ends up married to Monica now

7:21

his job title initially is

7:23

statistical analysis and data reconfiguration

7:26

into copywriting that's his

7:28

kind of career arc which of course Rachel

7:30

and Monica can't remember when they're doing the quiz to hold on to

7:32

the flat they've managed to bet the flat against

7:35

Joey and Chandler as

7:37

collateral and we're going to cover some

7:39

key episodes because of course we cannot

7:41

cover each series

7:43

is something like 24 episodes yeah

7:46

times that by we've got a lot of

7:48

ground to cover so Chuck Chandler Bing walks

7:50

into to your office um what

7:52

are you thinking of the first sort of

7:55

bells that might ring for you

7:57

because I'm imagining he I

8:00

don't know why I imagine this. I guess because he is quite

8:02

open about him being

8:04

down on himself and whatnot,

8:06

but I don't know how open he'd

8:08

be walking into the room. I

8:10

don't know how much he wants to dig into

8:13

why that is. No, but I think

8:15

you'd notice that, wouldn't you? I think you've

8:17

nailed it in terms of self-loathing, the

8:19

self-deprecation, the idea that

8:21

he's going to use himself humorously

8:25

to counteract any feelings

8:27

of inferiority. I think

8:30

you'd get a pretty clear idea of that early

8:32

on, even if he doesn't want to delve deep

8:35

below the surface. We

8:37

see in one of the episodes this

8:40

really writ large when he

8:42

has this kind of, well,

8:45

he feels a real connection with one

8:47

of the neighbors to Rachel and Phoebe.

8:49

I mean, this self-loathing, we hear

8:51

a lot in therapy and it's time to

8:53

get curious about what it means for that

8:55

person. So I would definitely be interested in

8:58

that with him. Do they

9:00

believe that about themselves? There are harsh critical

9:02

voices in the landscape

9:04

somewhere for sure, but it's Mr.

9:06

Heckles who lives below Rachel

9:09

and Monica. Yeah, I was going

9:11

to say Rachel and Phoebe. And he's always

9:13

complaining that they're making too much noise. And

9:16

Heckles dies. He gives the contents of his

9:18

flat to Monica and Rachel, which initially they

9:20

think, wow, that's so kind. We've obviously had

9:22

a real impact on this guy's life. But

9:25

it becomes obvious that actually it's a task because

9:27

he was a hoarder and he's kept everything. And

9:30

so clearing it out, though, it becomes obvious

9:32

to Chandler that he and Heckles were very

9:34

similar in their formative years. And

9:36

it sends Chandler into a kind of spiral. Look at this.

9:40

Pictures of all the women that Heckles went out with. Look

9:42

what he wrote on them. Vivian too

9:44

tall. Madge

9:46

big gums. Too

9:49

loud. Too smart. Makes noise

9:51

when she eats. This is this is

9:53

me. This is what I do. I'm gonna

9:58

end up alone just like he did. Chandler,

10:00

Heckles was a nutcase. Our trains are

10:02

on the same track, okay? Yeah, sure,

10:04

I'm coming up 30 years behind him,

10:06

but the stops are all the same.

10:09

Bittertown? Aloneville?

10:11

Hermit Junction? Yeah. Every

10:15

day, it's classic Chandler and classic

10:17

Bing delivery, like you said. And

10:19

I think in identifying with this

10:21

old, alone neighbor, it's clear that

10:23

he believes his inner voices. They

10:26

chime with the feelings that he has

10:28

about himself. Critical voices, he's not good

10:30

enough for anyone. The projecting that onto

10:32

the women that he meets, i.e. they're

10:34

not good enough for him, and we'll

10:36

come onto that later, projection. It's

10:39

too painful to confront that fear that would

10:42

come from integrating the bits he hates in

10:44

himself with those that he feels okay

10:46

about. Commitment issues kind of coming

10:48

to a head there. I think it's fascinating,

10:50

and I think a lot of people, myself

10:53

included, can relate. It's

10:55

not necessarily straightforward, just

10:57

being like championing yourself, is it? No, I

10:59

mean, there will have been incidents. There will have

11:01

been things happen. There will be moments

11:04

where a child makes sense of the

11:06

world in a way

11:08

that it's too difficult or

11:10

dangerous to consider that the

11:12

people around them aren't

11:15

as good as they'd like them to be, and

11:17

therefore it's easier to make themselves bad and the

11:19

kind of blame themselves, really.

11:21

And that can be where that feeling

11:24

of, I'm bad, I'm

11:26

not good enough, it's my

11:28

fault, can come from. And

11:30

that can last a lifetime if left unaddressed.

11:34

Well, it feels really real. Because

11:38

remember, again, we're talking about internal

11:40

world versus IRL, and

11:43

in the internal world, that is

11:45

the absolute reality. I am

11:47

bad. I am to blame.

11:50

That's the only way that this story makes sense, and

11:53

it takes quite a lot of

11:55

time and careful

11:57

unpeeling to sort of

11:59

just... to consider with

12:01

someone whether that really is

12:03

the case. Chandler, he

12:06

has this view of his parents' marriage,

12:08

right, which might have played into some of the

12:10

way he feels about himself. I mean, it might

12:12

have come from believing that he wasn't good enough

12:14

to save his parents' marriage, that in some way

12:16

he could have saved them, and

12:19

that actually the breakdown was his fault. He might

12:21

have had to make himself bad to explain their

12:23

disagreements and arguments. And

12:26

then, of course, we'd be thinking about this object relations.

12:29

Good enough, good versus bad, good

12:31

parent versus bad parent. Those

12:33

critical voices and superego form from the rules

12:35

that we make in the world to keep

12:37

us safe, or the ones we use to

12:40

make sense of the world when we're little.

12:42

And of course, we don't have as much information then, and

12:45

we are the center of our own universe.

12:47

So that circles back to this kind of

12:49

omnipotence. Because of course, when you look with

12:51

an adult head, you're going, of course you're

12:53

not in charge of that. Of course, you

12:55

can't possibly be to blame for this. As

12:58

a little child in that, you

13:01

haven't got the wider lens to

13:03

go, oh, they're really

13:05

not getting on, and that is nothing to

13:08

do with me. It feels like it's everything

13:10

to do with you. And that

13:12

you in some way could... So I'm guessing

13:14

back when Chandler was a kid, obviously he

13:16

didn't have that way to share. He doesn't

13:18

seem like he was the most popular

13:21

kid in the world. Well

13:23

we can think about that as well in terms of

13:26

how he was using human. Loneliness

13:28

is an issue for him, right? Definitely. And

13:30

all of these are defense mechanisms. In a

13:32

way, they're ways to protect ourselves. And

13:35

sometimes those are thought of as bad, must get

13:37

rid of these defense mechanisms. If only I could

13:39

kind of break down those critical voices or lose

13:42

them or the world would be different.

13:44

But I mean, we often consider it's

13:46

not about breaking those down at all,

13:48

but understanding and bringing awareness to them

13:50

and noticing that they might not be

13:52

necessary anymore as a safety

13:54

mechanism. We're bigger now, we can take care of

13:57

ourselves, we have got a wider lens with which

13:59

to view. view the world and

14:01

understand the responsibility of whatever's happening doesn't

14:03

only lie with us. And we might

14:05

be able to make different choices about

14:07

the way we live our lives. People

14:09

aren't as scary as they first appear.

14:11

And I might actually be able to

14:13

get close without the fear of

14:15

the other. But particularly for Chandler, he

14:18

might not have been bad or responsible

14:20

for his parents' marriage breakdown. And I

14:22

think subsequently as we watch him be

14:24

with his parents as they head

14:26

towards marriage, or as he heads towards marriage

14:28

with Monica, who sort of

14:30

helps him to realize that he is

14:32

separate from that. Whatever happened to them

14:35

didn't actually have anything to do with him. What could

14:37

Ross and Rachel and everybody do to

14:39

help with this self-loathing? The show is

14:42

called Friends, right? You are

14:44

not Ross. It's a big warm hug at the end

14:46

of the day. And there is a strong message out

14:49

there that's thinly

14:51

veiled. In a way, the very

14:53

existence of the Friends for

14:55

Chandler is what helps in the end.

14:58

He has gathered a family that he

15:00

didn't have when he was younger. He's

15:02

surrounded himself by people that he... If

15:05

he can't be vulnerable immediately, he feels like

15:08

there might be a possibility of being vulnerable

15:10

with, where he can be himself, where he

15:12

can be accepted, where he does feel supported.

15:14

And the friendship between him and Joey is

15:16

just lovely and bonkers. It

15:19

doesn't feel like it's going to break

15:21

down necessarily. And there's less chance of

15:24

him feeling abandoned, which is

15:26

effectively the feelings that he came out of childhood

15:28

with. And I think it probably helps as well,

15:30

doesn't it? That Joey is a bit... What's

15:33

the polite way of saying it? Kind of

15:35

slow on the uptake. Well they fulfill roles,

15:37

don't they, for each other? And there's no...

15:40

He fulfills

15:42

a specific role in that group

15:44

and they love him for

15:46

it. And that gives him confidence. I mean,

15:48

their very being, just the way they are,

15:50

accepting of him is good enough. Alright well,

15:52

after the break we're going to dig a little

15:54

deeper into China's childhood and how that might have

15:56

influenced how we see him, how we meet

15:58

him, and friends. And also why he's so

16:00

rubbish when it comes to women. I'm obviously

16:02

thinking of Chanis. Amongst

16:05

others. All right, so

16:07

let's take a quick break. Unless

16:09

you're a shrinker, one of our

16:11

special shrinker subscribers, of course, we're

16:13

not gonna go anywhere. Otherwise we'll be back

16:15

in just a few minutes. Before we do that in the moon,

16:18

do you know what Chanis middle name is? No.

16:21

I'll tell you after the break. Go on then. This

16:33

show is supported by BetterHelp. Now

16:35

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really affect us in a bad way. And

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always feels better just to speak

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["Croger's I'd

32:00

forgotten the laugh. Once you hear that voice,

32:02

you know, everybody knows she's not

32:04

right for him. Chandler seems to know, but

32:06

he keeps going back and she

32:08

doesn't treat him very well or the way

32:11

she talks about him. Like he's a sort

32:13

of baby that she kind of owns or

32:16

pet or something. Well, she might have nailed

32:18

it actually because some of his behavior is

32:20

coming from quite a young place. Yes, that's

32:23

true. And in Janice's eyes, I'm

32:25

going to mother you. I'm going to be the

32:27

person who you're looking for to validate

32:31

and allow you this, to

32:34

feel more comfortable. And in some ways she

32:36

can and she does. But I also think

32:38

this back and forth for Chandler is his

32:42

romantic ambivalence. And

32:44

we see it throughout his on-off

32:46

relationship with Janice. Well, I'm divorced.

32:50

Wow. Yeah, I'm riding the

32:52

alimony pony. Ha ha ha

32:54

ha ha. Ha ha ha

32:56

ha. There it is. I

32:59

just came up to say hi. Hi. And

33:03

you, Sweeney, I'll see you later. Okay. I'll

33:06

see you tonight. Okay, bye. Bye. Bye.

33:09

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

33:12

Bye. Bye. Bye. I

33:15

can't stand the woman. What? I thought you were

33:17

crazy about her. I know, but you know all

33:19

those little annoying things that you did before we

33:21

fell in love? You know, like her voice and

33:23

her laugh and her personality. We're all

33:25

back, you know? And

33:28

she's picked up like nine new ones. So

33:30

what are you doing bringing her here? There's people

33:33

here. Don't

33:36

worry about it. I'm taking care of it tonight. You

33:39

are not. You have never been able to break

33:41

up with her. There's even one point where he

33:43

gets back with her and pretends that he's got

33:45

a job in Yemen. All

33:47

the way to the airport, he goes. Well, it

33:49

doesn't stop there, Ben. I mean, he cannot be

33:52

the bad object in this moment. And we see

33:54

frequently that he can't bear for Janice to cry.

33:57

So the thought that he could inflict the kind

33:59

of pain which is all too familiar to him

34:01

in someone else, is

34:04

unconscionable. So he will

34:06

deliver something, then the tears come, and then

34:08

he kind of backtracks to

34:10

make it better because to sit

34:13

with Janice's pain and

34:15

his own pain is too difficult. And

34:17

that's, you know, I know it's a

34:19

knockabout comedy, but that's such a real

34:21

situation. There's so many countless relationships around

34:23

the world where someone's staying

34:25

in it because they don't want to

34:27

hurt the other person. And look at

34:29

the responsibility he's taking on himself there.

34:32

I am responsible for her happiness, again

34:34

from quite a young place, which takes

34:37

us full circle back to, if

34:39

I'm responsible for my parents' happiness and

34:41

they're breaking up, I must have messed

34:43

up monumentally, therefore I'm bad. So

34:46

this chimes again with his inner

34:49

world. Even as we move

34:52

forward deeper into the series, you know, him

34:54

and Monica, it looks like it's actually gonna happen,

34:57

but he still has huge doubts,

34:59

even though this is a person that he can

35:01

100% count on as a friend. She's

35:04

one of the core group of

35:06

friends. It's a great start, really,

35:08

for a relationship. They

35:10

know so much about each other's ups

35:13

and downs and foibles and vulnerabilities

35:15

and strengths. But yet he's still more

35:17

than once numerous times. He's not sure

35:20

about this. It's not linear, this development,

35:22

is it? I mean, how annoying is

35:24

that? But that's what we see is

35:26

this ambivalence again this

35:28

tentative putting a foot forward into

35:31

commitment or an area that

35:33

might end up with some deeper commitment

35:35

to Monica. I mean, again,

35:37

season seven, episode 23 says, yeah, from

35:39

now on, it's gonna be the four of us, you

35:41

guys, me and the Mrs, the little woman and the

35:44

old ball and chain, the young hot ball

35:46

and chain. Maybe there's

35:48

more pressure. Maybe it's even more pressure for

35:51

it to be a really good friend. There's

35:54

huge risk in Chandler in

35:57

this relationship, as well as huge reward.

44:00

and expecting a different result. I

44:02

mean, that can be painful, but can be

44:04

hugely rewarding. It can be very validating and

44:06

life-affirming to gather the people around us who

44:09

allow us to foster some of the resilience

44:12

in a kind of redevelopment way,

44:15

that we didn't get the first time around or

44:17

that there wasn't enough bandwidth surrounding

44:20

the people that we were with growing up in primary

44:22

care is for all kinds of reasons. I mean, there's

44:25

no blame attached to this. I guess we're

44:27

just looking, bringing awareness to what that first

44:29

environment might have been like, what might have

44:31

been missing. So he may not have

44:33

been mirrored. Our anger might not

44:35

have been welcomed, digested or dissipated. Might

44:38

not have been allowed or recognized as a force

44:40

for good. You know, oh, you feel

44:42

angry. It means you don't like it. What are you gonna do about it? And

44:45

we might meet robust characters in life who

44:47

can allow the space for a different kind

44:49

of relating. And with Chandler, he's got that

44:51

with his friends. Yeah, no one told

44:54

him life was gonna be this way. All

44:58

right, who's gonna be on the show

45:00

next week? Namone,

45:03

who's our next client? What did you just focus

45:05

on? I'm glad you don't know. Well, what is

45:07

it? Because I'm ashamed of that joke. No

45:10

one told you life was gonna be this way. I

45:12

probably do, but I- Your job's a joke, you're broke? No.

45:14

Your love life's DOA. Oh yes. It's like

45:17

we're always stuck in second gear, honestly. Oh

45:19

my God, honestly, sometimes my brain-

45:21

I feel like it hasn't been your day, your

45:23

week, your month or- Even your year. Even your

45:26

year. Who have we got next week? This

45:28

is the sort of show where everyone says,

45:30

you have to watch this. It's only had

45:32

two seasons, and this year it cleaned up

45:34

at the Grammys. We need

45:36

them to approve all of our new business paperwork, and

45:38

then they'll send a rep, and that

45:40

rep will sign off on another rep who will

45:42

come and look at stuff, and then sign off

45:45

on a different rep. Do you have any reps

45:47

to say? Many, a lot, a lot of reps,

45:49

yeah. But it's gonna be okay, you know? All

45:51

we have to do is just stay calm and

45:53

make sure you don't get up. Sydney!

45:56

Fuck! What was that? I fell through

45:58

a wall, good morning. The bear! to

46:00

do season two, right? Yeah. So who are

46:02

we gonna focus on? Sydney. Yes. All right.

46:05

Season two this time Sydney is such a

46:07

brilliant character loads going on and so many

46:09

of you asked us to do a whole episode on

46:12

her. We will look at why Sydney thrives

46:14

on this high octane lifestyle. What's powering her?

46:16

Is it the grief of her mother dying

46:18

or trying to prove something to her father

46:20

who we see much more in season two?

46:22

Sydney's low self esteem has she overcomes it

46:25

and of course the possible codependent relationship

46:27

with Karmie and Sydney because of course there's

46:29

a kind of free song between them

46:31

ish. Yeah and we've been

46:33

alluding to season three of The Bear. It

46:35

is in fact dropping on 27th of June.

46:37

It might have dropped already if you listen

46:39

to this a few days after we publish

46:42

it. There will be 10 half hour episodes

46:44

in total and they will all be available

46:46

to watch on Disney Plus if you have

46:48

access to that. And I've

46:51

heard Will Porter's back as well as Chef

46:53

Luca which is exciting. I am there.

46:55

Excellent. Thanks Bear. It's like we planned it. We

46:57

would be so chuffed if you

46:59

could follow us on Apple Podcasts,

47:02

Spotify, Amazon, Music, wherever you get

47:04

your pods to get new eps,

47:06

join the team, tell your friends.

47:08

It's massively appreciated and to all

47:10

our new listeners this week and

47:12

beyond thank you for joining us

47:15

and to our shrinkers, our esteem

47:17

shrinkers who have

47:19

subscribed to Extra Takes.

47:22

Now that is that's a path that I would

47:24

highly recommend because you're going to get the show

47:26

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47:28

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you can try it out with a free

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trial. Click try free at the top of

47:37

the shrink the box show page on Apple

47:39

Podcasts or by visiting extra takes.com. Production

47:41

management is Lily Hamblee, the assistant

47:43

producer Scarlett O'Malley, studio engineer is

47:46

Matthias Torres-Solas, senior producer Selina Rehm

47:48

and executive producer Simon Paul. you