30:00

environment to work in. She's really trying to

30:02

develop something that moves away from that

30:05

stereotypical shouty pressure cooker kitchen

30:07

that we see across lots

30:09

of professional kitchens that

30:11

are shown on screen. And she's

30:13

looking out for the people that work there,

30:15

but her own needs seem to come way

30:17

down the list. And I'm not even sure

30:19

she knows what they are. Her first position

30:22

is, I don't need anything. Like, calm

30:24

me right at the bitter end of

30:27

the series, says

30:29

that heartbreaking thing about, I

30:31

don't need enjoyment or amusement.

30:33

And you're like screaming at

30:35

the telly, dude, every

30:38

human being needs those two things at

30:40

some stage. And I think

30:42

that is like a default position

30:44

for these guys. So like

30:46

you say, I agree 100%. I'm not sure if she

30:48

even knows, but even if she did, she'd be like,

30:51

yeah, like I really do would like to go to

30:53

the cinema and see that movie. That's like in position,

30:55

179 on my list. Can

31:00

she learn to prioritize her own needs over

31:02

others? Because lots of people will say, and

31:04

certainly in the therapy room when they come,

31:08

my needs are important. It's overindulgent.

31:10

Think about myself. It's

31:12

too much. Can she fit her

31:15

own oxygen mask type thing before

31:17

fitting other people's? And I've often

31:19

used that however trite it is,

31:21

because it's so counterintuitive. People look,

31:24

you're sat on a plane and you're like, why would I fit

31:26

my own mask? And then it suddenly dawns on you, because

31:29

if you don't, you aren't going to be

31:31

any good. And that's the bit that people

31:34

miss often. And oftentimes

31:36

carers do not know how to be

31:38

cared for. They can't receive it. And

31:41

they either find it hard to accept

31:43

care or even recognize

31:46

when care is being offered and how it could

31:48

be beneficial to them. So I'd

31:50

be worried about her not giving herself enough

31:52

care. Also, is she trying to

31:54

fix this system? Because there's no doubt that

31:57

it's toxic in lots of ways. In

32:00

the restaurant. Yeah, in the restaurant. And she could

32:02

be, like you say, trying to care for her

32:04

work family. But where do

32:06

you get your cuddles? Where do you get

32:08

your kisses? Where do you get your

32:11

laughs? You might not even know you need them. Yeah,

32:13

but that's, I think this is

32:15

why, everybody I know that works in that business,

32:18

they take huge breaks, like

32:20

sabbaticals. You mean months

32:22

off from- Yeah, or years, and then

32:24

they'll go into a different kitchen. Because

32:27

the burnout is real. Massive.

32:29

Even though she's so young, if you

32:31

don't recognize what you need

32:34

for your soul, I mean- Yeah, I'd wanna

32:36

be talking to Sydney about

32:39

the sustainability of that lifestyle, and

32:41

what else might need to be in place,

32:43

like you say, breaks, how she

32:45

supports herself, how she steps

32:47

away from it in the short term, and

32:50

then how she gives herself- To

32:52

get some crucial physical love

32:54

actually, from that, now that I think

32:56

about it. When she makes her the

32:58

omelette, I don't

33:00

know if she knew she needed that hug. She

33:03

sees something in that as well, Sydney.

33:06

Yeah. She wants to bring

33:08

her in as the operational manager of

33:10

the whole shebang. Sabbaticals there. So

33:12

there's a lovely scene towards the

33:14

end of this season. Kami

33:17

and Sydney- Oh,

33:19

when they're under the table. Are under the table.

33:22

So what's great about this is

33:24

there's a physical need to mend the table.

33:26

Yes. Which Kami is doing- The

33:29

physical positions, they're in a very strange.

33:32

Think Spider-Man and MJ. Yeah,

33:35

exactly right. They are literally under

33:37

the table with a

33:40

screwdriver, trying to fix this

33:43

thing. Weirdly intimate. It's hugely

33:45

intimate. It's a great setting

33:47

for this conversation to

33:49

unfold. You could do this without

33:51

me. I couldn't do it without you. Yeah, you could. I

33:54

wouldn't even want to do it without you. You

33:59

know, You make me better

34:02

at this. You

34:07

make me better at this. This

34:10

is where, unbelievably,

34:13

moments from opening or kind of dress

34:16

rehearsal night, they found space for a

34:18

moment of vulnerability. But it has to

34:20

be squeezed into this moment of also

34:22

fixing the table. So there's kind of

34:24

worth in noting that it can't happen

34:28

in a more spacious environment. Like

34:30

you say, physically, pretty much almost on top

34:32

of each other. Yeah. My

34:36

teenage self just took over. By the end of that

34:38

scene, I was just like, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss.

34:41

You are gonna be so disappointed. But

34:45

also, I think she was lying when she said

34:47

she wasn't jealous. Well,

34:49

we'll come on to that. I mean, I really,

34:51

I'm not sure about the world they were.

34:54

I'm really not sure about Eva. And I'm

34:56

not even sure that she wants him like

34:58

that, but she wants him. Do

35:00

you know what I mean? She wants what he sort

35:02

of represents. It ends that

35:04

particular scene where he asks her, you

35:07

still like to cook, right? And

35:09

moments later gives her her own chef

35:11

whites with her initials on. It's validation

35:13

from someone she respects. You're right, you're

35:15

right. It could also be romantic. B.

35:19

I like that it's opening. It's like I'm

35:21

shouting kiss, kiss, kiss at the screen. I

35:23

don't really want it to happen. Cause I

35:25

hate it when series go all soapy and

35:28

oh, now they're married. Now they've got kids. And it's

35:30

just, you know. Where's the bear gonna go if that

35:32

happens? Yeah. So season three

35:34

is on its way very

35:37

shortly, which is exciting. This is when it's good

35:39

that I'm really lame watching shows because by the

35:41

time I get around to it, the new one's

35:43

about to come out. Whereas everyone else has been

35:45

waiting like for like a year. I'm on the

35:47

edge of my seat. Like when is season three

35:49

coming? Come on. And that speculation

35:51

that we've just been touching on has

35:53

been happening in the wider world. So

35:56

we will get into it in a

35:58

bit more detail after that. the break.

36:09

Hello, I'm Elizabeth Day, the creator and host

36:11

of How to Fail. It's the podcast that

36:13

celebrates the things in life that haven't gone

36:16

right. And what, if anything, we've learned from

36:18

those mistakes to help us succeed better. Each

36:21

week, my guests share three failures, sparking

36:23

intimate, thought-provoking and funny conversations. You'll

36:25

hear from a diverse range of

36:27

voices sharing what they've learned through

36:29

their failures. Join me Wednesdays for

36:31

a new episode each week. This

36:33

is an Elizabeth Day and Sony

36:35

Music Entertainment original podcast. Listen

36:38

now wherever you get your podcasts. The

36:40

Frankies were a picture-perfect influencer

36:43

family, but everything wasn't

36:45

as it seemed. I

36:47

just had a 12-year-old boy, Philip,

36:49

here asking for help. He's

36:52

emaciated. He's got tape around his

36:54

legs. Ruby Frankie is

36:56

his mom's name. Infamous

36:58

is covering Ruby Frankie, the world

37:00

of Mormonism, and a secret therapy

37:03

group that ruined lives. Listen

37:06

to Infamous wherever you get

37:08

your podcasts. Well,

37:18

they won't, though. The best smile in that though, isn't

37:20

it? It's sharper than that. It's not going to. She

37:22

doesn't think she said she gets a bit annoyed when

37:24

everyone's trying to pair them off. Does

37:26

she said that? That doesn't surprise me because it would lessen

37:29

her character. They're intense after

37:32

a fairly short time of

37:34

knowing each other, but I think

37:36

that is because they see similarities

37:38

in each other. I think it's more

37:40

twinning and almost

37:42

sibling-y. Could

37:45

we see them as codependents? They're definitely

37:47

enabling certain behaviours in each other, but

37:50

they don't seem to be reflective about the

37:52

differences between them either.

37:55

There's safety and protection in seeing that they're

37:57

similar. I see this real sense of belonging for her,

37:59

but I think that is belonging to

38:01

Kami and Nat and

38:03

Richie's gang, as opposed

38:05

to just Kami. Yes, I

38:07

would agree with that. I

38:09

think she's a bit of an ass to him, like

38:12

for no reason. Like, you know when he doesn't

38:14

call her about the wall, they

38:17

break down the wall cause they find mould. Yeah. I

38:20

don't think she really cares that he

38:22

didn't call her. I think it's more about he

38:24

didn't call in general. He

38:26

is, but I think she feels let down by

38:28

the joint vision that they have. Absolutely,

38:30

but she doesn't say that. No. Kami

38:33

should be more present towards

38:36

Yeah. the opening of this restaurant.

38:39

He is with Claire, but I

38:41

don't think that his presence

38:43

with Claire is what's bothering Sydney. I

38:45

think it's his absence from

38:48

where she felt he should be.

38:50

Yeah. Like he's promised and

38:52

intimated that he wants a hundred percent from

38:54

Sydney. She's kind of

38:56

expecting that back. And

38:58

certainly when he starts to be in

39:01

a relationship with Claire, he's massively

39:03

losing his focus. Sydney

39:05

is giving all her time and energy into building this

39:08

new enterprise with Kami. She's

39:10

extremely hardworking and understanding. And often

39:12

towards the end of the season,

39:14

Kami's attention is just not focusing.

39:17

I mean, this is where it's ramping up to

39:19

opening time. Yes. And

39:21

we get the sense of that. That's a ticking clock situation. Yeah,

39:23

ever tightening deadline. And we see

39:25

her working largely on her own. She's got a taste

39:27

test on her own because she didn't turn up, like

39:29

you say, choose the plates, run

39:32

the overall movement of getting the place finished.

39:35

And then as we keep saying,

39:37

they mirror each other. Maybe that is their

39:39

connection. They see those things in each other.

39:41

They finish each other's sentences. They

39:43

are twinning. All right, let's talk

39:45

about those final few scenes. Kami's in

39:47

the walk-in fridge. So

39:49

it's a massive lock-in fridge that you

39:51

get in kitchen. Yeah, there's huge ones you get. And the

39:55

handle breaks off. So you're stuck in there. And this

39:57

is basically his

39:59

fault. And

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