0:00

Okay. Ready to do a countdown? I got my Mountain Dew. We're good. Oh

0:03

my gosh. Mountain Dew code red. That's like godly

0:07

acid, bud. Whatever. You know what? Like I said, we're all

0:10

gonna die of something. I'm gonna die happy. Have you had that, Jill?

0:14

Mountain Dew code red? No. I've heard of it.

0:18

It's freaking basically, she's drinking food coloring is what we're

0:22

saying. That's basically what she's drinking.

0:26

With bubbles. With bubbles. Carbonated food

0:30

coloring. Yeah. Right. We're never gonna get a brand deal with

0:33

Mountain Dew. It tastes like cherries. Alright?

0:37

That's all I care about. Like cherry lozenges, though. Like,

0:41

not genuine cherries. It's like cherry cough

0:44

medicine. Alright. Cherry hauls. Alright? Whatever.

0:48

Yeah. Alright. Enjoy it. Yeah.

0:54

Are you ready? Ready? 3 3, 2, 1.

1:03

Welcome back to another episode of Shift That Goes On Our

1:06

Today, we have an amazing guest, Jill from the

1:09

UK, and my lovely cohost, Dirty

1:13

schedules. I'm okay. Thank you. You are lovely.

1:18

That's that's like that sarcastic where, like, I'm gonna get in trouble after her for

1:21

talking about her Mountain Dew code red. Yeah. You are.

1:26

So how are you, Jill? Very good. Thank

1:29

you. Yeah. Looking forward to the run up to

1:33

Christmas now. I've started thinking about the holidays

1:36

and Buying gifts and stuff. So, yeah, that's that's

1:40

pretty much what I've been doing today is looking at at ideas for

1:44

gifts for family members. When do you start decorating?

1:47

Oh, really late. A week after I've had enough. I I

1:51

want it all down again. New year. So you take it down before the new

1:55

year? Pretty much just immediately after

1:58

the New Year, but I know it's become a real thing for people to,

2:02

you know, start Immediately in beginning of December,

2:06

and and it goes on till mid January. And, yeah, why not? If

2:10

that's you know, if you enjoy it, that's great. Yeah.

2:13

I started the day after Halloween. Really?

2:17

Yes. Wow. But it brings me

2:21

joy. I love Christmas, and, you know, I was like, why

2:25

not? I'm just gonna do it now. Yeah. It's exactly. It's

2:29

it's knowing you know, this is part of the theme of what we're talking about

2:32

today, isn't it? It's about knowing what you enjoy and what's good for you, and

2:35

it's not doing anyone else Any home? So Right. Right.

2:39

I'm gonna enjoy it. I'm curious to see, though. I I did wonder

2:43

if by New Year's if I was gonna be tired of looking at it. I

2:46

don't think so, but you never know. You know? We're putting up our tree

2:50

the day after Thanksgiving. Which is a big thing for you. Right? Because when we

2:53

lost Yeah. Yeah. So we in the 28 years that

2:56

my wife and I have been together, we have never had, like, a

3:00

communal treat, Mainly because we have 8 freaking cats.

3:04

Right? And cats are little assholes. But this year,

3:08

we're gonna have a tree in our piano room. We got a nice fake

3:11

tree. We're gonna put that up. And then I have a tree that I put

3:14

every put up in my office. Now I didn't do it last year because I

3:17

was in such a horrible, Depressors state

3:21

that the holidays were a blow. But this year, I've already got, like,

3:25

idea for where the tree is gonna go. We're gonna decorate the front of the

3:28

house. I have some bull ups that are gonna go out. So

3:32

it's helping with my mental state, And,

3:36

I'm really excited. Yeah. Great. Good. Yeah. Yeah.

3:40

Again, it it's yeah. Knowing what you enjoy and knowing what's what's

3:44

Good for you. It's that's yeah. It's different for all of us.

3:47

Yeah. I have a question, Jill. How Yeah. When

3:51

When would you say you started to really pay attention to knowing

3:55

yourself, and what brought you joy? I would say Very early on

4:03

for from when I was a child, actually. Yeah. Really.

4:06

I've I think I've I've always Being

4:10

aware of that. I I like to have fun Yeah.

4:14

And adventure. So I I was Where that that

4:17

was something that was not necessarily what everyone

4:21

else liked to do. You know? It's not a positive or negative.

4:25

It's just something I recognized about myself when I was quite

4:28

young. And anything that was adventure, slightly risk

4:32

Taking my you know, for a couple years, my dad

4:36

got involved in something. I'm not sure if it's the same term

4:40

terminology there, A self fulfilled group. So

4:43

himself and 9 other guys when we were kids, they built their own

4:47

houses. Wow. And I just love climbing.

4:51

You know, with the other kids, we'd we'd climb up over piles of bricks and

4:54

make fires and And doing all sorts of things we shouldn't

4:58

really do. But, yeah, I I think I've yeah. Since I was a child, I've

5:01

been aware that I like to have fun, and I like

5:05

adventure and and risk. Wow. And that hasn't changed. Yeah.

5:09

I was gonna ask. Yeah. So from climbing over bricks as a child, what

5:12

what as, like, a young adult or even an adult now Have you done

5:16

like, what's the riskiest thing that that you try to do?

5:21

In different areas. So I, you know, did

5:24

the traditional thing of, you know, going to school and

5:28

going through high school and but I couldn't wait to

5:32

get out. I wanted to the world. And, actually, I particularly wanted

5:36

to come to the United States. I wanted to you know, that in here in

5:40

the UK, it's as in a lot of Europe, the rest of the world,

5:43

It's part of our culture. We all grew up watching

5:47

films from the United States, bands.

5:51

So I was just Really keen to come

5:55

to the States to travel. So I couldn't wait to get out

5:59

of school and save up money, and I came to California where I've

6:03

Got family also to Seattle and spent quite a few months Nice.

6:07

Over there. So so travel is always something That's been

6:11

a priority for me. So, yeah, in that

6:14

respect, traveling, doing things. Of course, when I was

6:18

Younger with a friend in Europe, we did things that would

6:22

be considered risky then and risky now.

6:25

We hitchhiked a lot. So hit hitchhiking

6:29

on France and and parts of Europe. And you've learned to

6:33

tell us about it. It was great. You know? Of course, we thought, no. Yeah.

6:36

Well, I mean, of course, we knew that there were risks and that things could

6:39

go wrong. But I think the other thing is I've always take calculated

6:42

risks. So we bought The house that we current

6:46

we've lived in for 30 years, my husband and myself, when we had

6:50

young kids, and we really Took a risk on can we

6:54

really afford this, but I'm often

6:57

very clear about what I want. And then I think about the

7:01

options and possibilities about how am I gonna get it.

7:04

But, yeah, I it's calculated risk, so I don't think I've

7:08

Ever done anything really stupid that hasn't you

7:12

know, that that's Yeah. Been disastrous. Wow.

7:16

You're lucky. I'm aware of that, but there's there's an element of

7:20

of luck in all of that. You know, I I've as a teenager, I've,

7:24

You know, being in a car when, you know, the other drivers are drunk.

7:28

I've smoked marijuana and driven myself. I've done all

7:32

the sort of stupid things that Often comes with youth. Yeah. And I've

7:35

been lucky without a doubt, and and I've seen friends and

7:39

contemporaries who have not been lucky. So, Yeah. I agree. I I think

7:42

there's definitely an element of luck there. Yeah. Definitely.

7:46

Like, I I can think of things that, you know, I did in my youth

7:50

that, Yep. It I probably wouldn't do now if I

7:54

was the same age just because, you know, we all know the risks. Like,

7:58

for us, the the risky thing for us We moved from South Florida

8:01

to upstate New York. Didn't know a soul. Did that. That

8:05

was a very calculated risk. And then leaving my job after 15

8:09

years, You know? And not really having

8:12

a plan. But, like, all those things all worked out for their

8:16

best. Right? Now we have this tremendous group of friends that

8:20

We love dearly. Now I have a job and a podcast that I

8:24

love dearly. Like, you know, you look back, you know, Certain times

8:27

of your life, shit wasn't in the wheelhouse, and then, you know, it just kinda

8:31

kinda happens. I'm a tiny bit of a risk taker. I'm a little bit more

8:34

careful now Because at 60, shit breaks. And

8:38

then when it breaks, it takes a really long time for it to hit. So

8:42

I The the risks that I'm gonna take are gonna be, you

8:46

know, something I probably thought about, but I won't do. Like, the things I did

8:50

as a kid and Not even have a thought process

8:53

around it. I just do it. I still take, but they're very

8:57

different from the ones I did when I was younger. Yeah. I mean, even today,

9:01

because it's Full hair as it is with you guys. I

9:04

was walking down the street. I'm being very careful not to slip on the wet

9:08

ladies. Just one thing. You know?

9:12

I I just I mean, you can do that when you're 20 and break your

9:15

leg, but what what you realize when you get older is, yeah, but it's gonna

9:18

take a lot longer get better and to heal. So, yeah, just

9:22

try and avoid that. Yeah. I remember making jokes of, like, when I

9:26

lived in upstate New York, if I slipped on the ice walking, Like, I thought

9:30

it was funny. Like, oh, look at me. I'm slipping and falling and hurting myself.

9:33

How funny. And now I'm like, gonna break something? Could I break an arm,

9:37

a leg? Like, what will happen? I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

9:42

So tell us a little bit about what you do today, Jill.

9:45

Today, I went into Town,

9:50

Yeah. Because I thought I'm gonna start maybe thinking about

9:54

getting Christmas gifts. And, Yeah. I had a look around

9:57

and got a few ideas. So, yeah, that that was a very,

10:01

easy morning for me. And then I bumped into a friend,

10:05

Which was great because you said you got time for coffee, and I did. So

10:10

that's lovely when, you know, you don't plan something like that and

10:14

Just both find that you've both got time to spend a bit of time

10:17

with each other, so that was good. And then I came

10:21

back, And I've been reading. Yeah. What are you

10:25

currently reading? Well, I went to, an area

10:29

of The UK a few weeks ago well, about 2 weeks ago

10:32

called Yorkshire, and that's where the

10:36

Bronte sisters lived 200 years

10:39

ago. They wrote one of them wrote Pride and Prejudice. 1 of them wrote

10:43

Jane Eyre. Another one wrote Wuthering Heights. So I

10:47

thought I've read Wuthering Heights years years years

10:51

ago. I thought, you know what? I'm gonna read it again. So, yeah, that's what

10:54

I'm Plowing through. And I say I'm plowing through it because

10:58

it's not an easy read, but it's, yeah,

11:02

it's been it's been interesting. And you love it even

11:06

though it's not an easy read. Man, we Yeah. You don't wanna know what I'm

11:09

reading. Well, nothing that great. But,

11:13

I feel like I've just started sort of getting back into it.

11:16

I I when I was younger, I used to read a lot. I remember reading

11:20

Pride and Prejudice, and I I don't know. I was just very

11:23

into, like, strong women characters, and I would read all the time.

11:27

And then, you know, life happens and you kind of step away from it and

11:30

find other distractions and other ways to sort of get out of your head. So,

11:34

yeah, now, now I read adult stories.

11:40

It's not good. I I can't with you. No. So

11:44

I know. In addition to to reading, you also write.

11:48

Correct? That's right. Yeah. I do. And in fact, that's one reason

11:52

why I don't read anywhere near as much in terms of novels

11:56

anymore because because I write books,

11:59

I also Do a lot of reading or, you know, research

12:03

around, the subjects that I write about. So,

12:07

you know, that's great. But, Fortunately, yeah, by the time the sort of end of

12:10

the day comes and I think, right, I'm gonna pick up a novel and read

12:13

it, I'm I'm just all read out. So But,

12:17

yeah, I write. I've written quite a few books in

12:21

the last, more than 10 years now, yeah.

12:25

And what do you write about? So I write about

12:30

I write along the sub around the subjects of

12:34

Well-being, personal development,

12:38

work, careers, mental health,

12:42

Although, you know, anything and everything that that's around that, so it can be emotional

12:46

intelligence, assertive communication,

12:51

mindfulness. How did you fall into that? As I said

12:54

earlier, I couldn't wait to leave school and go traveling, and I did

12:58

that. But by the Time I got married and had children, once

13:02

they started school, I'd stayed at home with them once

13:05

they started school well, before they started But once they did, I

13:09

thought, what am I going to do? I don't have any

13:12

real employable skills that fit around kids. So I thought, you know what?

13:16

Maybe I'll go back to School. Now I'm an adult, so

13:20

I went and did a degree in social

13:23

anthropology. I figured while the kids are at School, I might as well be at

13:27

school. So the timing, it all fitted around them. But and that was

13:30

fascinating. I really enjoyed that. Social anthropology is about people's

13:34

Cultures, their values, their beliefs, their traditions,

13:38

their history. So that sort of really pulled together a

13:42

lot of What I'd observed and experienced in

13:45

my travels. But before I did that degree, I

13:49

had to do a course to help me with to build for All the adults

13:53

that went on to do it agreed to build their confidence and self

13:56

esteem and their ability to write essays,

14:00

And I found that utterly inspiring because I didn't think I'd done

14:04

well at school and no neither did anyone else on that course. But

14:08

this really helped us. The 2 guys that were the course leaders

14:12

really boosted our self esteem, helped us to realize that we've

14:16

Got potential, all of us. And I thought

14:19

that actually after degree, that's actually I was so inspired by

14:23

that. I thought That's what I want to do to be able to help people

14:27

to realize their potential, whether it's because they're

14:31

struggling a lot with aspects of their life or they're not

14:35

struggling, but it just hadn't occurred to them that there's a lot more out there

14:39

for them. So then I trained to be a tutor

14:43

in adult education and just got into

14:46

teaching courses around assertiveness,

14:50

confidence building. I went back to the university and was

14:53

hired to teach study skills, which a huge amount of Study

14:57

skills is not just knowing how to study, but having the

15:01

confidence to know that you're doing okay. So, yeah, That's that's

15:04

how I got into all of that. And then with a colleague, we were

15:08

very interested in the idea of resilience.

15:12

So we My my colleague, my friend

15:16

Sue, she was also had been an English teacher,

15:20

so she Although she hadn't written a book, English was her

15:23

thing. English was my favorite subject at school, and we thought,

15:27

well, maybe we could write a book. I know everybody well,

15:31

many people think that, but,

15:35

we were just really fortunate that We approached a publisher

15:38

and said, look, we've got this idea for a book on how to be

15:42

more resilient, how to build your resilience. It's based on a lot of the

15:46

work that we've done Helping people to be more resilient,

15:49

and they said, yeah. Yes, please. We were, wow.

15:53

Really? Yeah. And that was my 1st book

15:57

with my colleague and friend, Sue. What's it called? It's

16:01

called Bounce. Use the power of resilience

16:04

to live the life you want. And it

16:08

didn't really sell much, but we were so Thrilled. I,

16:11

you know, I think anyone Yeah. Would be and is if if they see

16:15

their book in prints and on a bookshelf in a bookshop.

16:19

So we were just thrilled with that, but then the our

16:23

editor said, well, what else do you teach and what

16:27

do people really respond to? And

16:31

we said, oh, well, that's an easy one. Assertiveness, assertive

16:34

Communication people. It's always a very popular course,

16:38

and she said, well, that's your next book then. And sure enough, we wrote that

16:41

together, And that did sell really well. Wow. What's that

16:45

one called? That's just called how to be assertive.

16:49

I like that. I probably should read that. So I'm not very assertive.

16:53

I mean, I'm more of like I try to be, like, even cute,

16:57

and I kinda wouldn't what I need to say or do. But,

17:01

yeah, I I like those ideas. The thing is with being

17:04

assertive is it's very often, it's an ideal way

17:08

communicate and behave, but the we we also

17:12

all behave in aggressive ways sometimes or

17:15

Passive ways and also passive aggressive ways, and

17:19

there's reasons why we do that in different

17:22

situations. So it's not a case of feeling that we

17:26

shouldn't communicate and behave in other ways. But it's just

17:30

very often people don't behave assertively or communicate assertively

17:33

because they just don't know how. And, actually, there's some very simple

17:37

straightforward steps, and you have to Be confident, and you

17:41

also have to know that sometimes other people don't like it if you

17:44

assert yourself. They, you know, they go, oh, you're You're so assertive

17:48

and, yeah, not aggressive because aggressive is

17:51

is, you know, having your own way and barging everyone

17:55

Aside, but assertive means being very clear about what you

17:59

want and taking responsibility for Trying to get

18:03

it while at the same time taking into consideration other people's

18:06

needs and wants. So it's Quite a

18:10

skill, but it's something we've all done in the past as well. If you just

18:14

said to somebody, hey. Could you help me move this pick up this table and

18:17

move this over here? That's just you being assertive. That's you saying

18:21

knowing exactly what you want and asking someone else to do it.

18:25

Mhmm. If they if they didn't If they said, no, I can't.

18:29

I've just you know, I've got a hernia or I've I've got no. So, you

18:32

know, I'm not strong enough. So we are all already

18:36

assertive In very simple ways, it's just knowing how to

18:40

do that more in our interactions with other people. I I think that's

18:43

really interesting because now, like, when I think about My drama box,

18:47

and it said, I got my boundaries. That's my way of being assertive.

18:51

Mhmm. You know, taking care of my own needs Yep.

18:55

Without Without, you know, getting

18:58

letting drama come in. So Yeah. That's a really good

19:02

interesting perspective. Yeah. And actually recognizing again

19:06

with taking care of your own needs, taking responsibility for that,

19:09

and recognizing Sometimes other people won't like that. You

19:13

know? It will get in the way of maybe of what they want to do,

19:17

but, yeah, you can't please all the people all the time. But

19:21

as long as you're fair and clear and honest with people, it comes their problem.

19:24

We can't be responsible for everybody's feelings and

19:28

reactions. Yeah, I was just thinking. I feel like,

19:32

like, you know, thinking about myself, I feel like I can be assertive

19:36

for other people. Like, if I see, like, something is not quite right

19:39

or, you know, somebody's being mistreated, I can be assertive for

19:43

them, I think, easier than I could be assertive for myself. So I don't know.

19:47

I got some work to do. But I think that's because we feel

19:51

it's you know, the the, Yeah. We when we recognize

19:55

a need in somebody else, it's it's easier to see

19:59

the unfairness or or it being unjust. And,

20:03

Hey. This is this can't happen for this person. I'm gonna, you know, support

20:07

them or step in. But then when it comes to ourselves, we often

20:11

question, yeah, but maybe Maybe I don't deserve it or maybe

20:15

I shouldn't have this. So we we start you know, doubts start to come

20:18

in. Mhmm. It was absolutely freeing for me Once I

20:22

started setting up those boundaries and being assertive for myself,

20:26

it it's put me in such a better headspace than I was a

20:30

year ago. Yeah. Yeah. And some

20:33

people don't like it. And, you know, at the stage in my case, in my

20:36

life, I don't really fucking care. You know? It's It's my life. It's

20:40

my happiness. It also helps people realize that, you

20:44

know, maybe their assertiveness or their Tactics

20:48

for being assertive are not, like, the most beneficial to not

20:52

just themselves, but to other people around them. Yeah. I just think

20:56

with Other people, when you are

20:59

clear and honest and direct about what you will or won't

21:03

do or do or don't need, then, You know, for

21:07

example, when you do say, yeah. Hey. Great. Yeah. I'll do that, and I'll be

21:10

involved with that. And, yes, I'm happy to help or or do this, then

21:14

people know you're being genuine Because they know when you

21:18

don't want to do something or say, I'm not available for

21:21

that. So when you say you are there, you obviously mean it.

21:25

So I think you you can come across as much more genuine

21:29

when you can be assertive, and it also means that you can help

21:33

Other people to be assertive to actually say, okay, guys.

21:37

This is what I want to do or where I'm at

21:40

or where I'm not, You know, I'm not prepared to do.

21:44

But what about you? Come on. Be honest. What how would you like to do

21:48

this? So, actually, It I think being assertive actually

21:52

benefits everybody because you're clear about helping

21:56

other people to be clear and direct and honest about what

22:00

what they want. And you're you're prepared to take that on. Be open to

22:03

that. Yeah. And so you don't only write

22:07

books for adults, but you write books for children as well. Right?

22:11

That's right. Yeah. I I I was asked by

22:15

one of my editors A few years back to write a book

22:20

about anxiety, overcoming anxiety,

22:23

not Because I'm an expert on that at all, but because it was sort of

22:27

in line with a lot of other stuff that I'd written about around emotional

22:31

intelligence, positive thinking. And so

22:35

I was interested to do that. So I did a lot of research, talked

22:38

to a lot of people. It's you know, unfortunately,

22:42

it's very easy to find people to talk to about anxiety because so

22:46

many people feel it in in so many different

22:49

ways. And in fact, I even dedicated the book on

22:53

overcoming anxiety to a a friend who who just

22:56

totally opened up to me and Told me so much about how much

23:00

she'd had to deal with when it came to anxiety over the

23:03

years. She was a relatively new new friend, so it

23:07

wasn't like I I she disclosed all this, and I was sort

23:11

of like, oh my god. I had no idea. But, you know, this was she

23:14

was describing her past. But, Anyway, I wrote this book, and I

23:18

looked at well, I wonder what's out there for children as well. So

23:22

I looked up some books and just thought, And I don't really feel

23:25

there's anything that's particularly

23:29

helpful in a way, and I I had 3 It's

23:32

myself. I used to be a carer for other

23:36

people's children, so and I'd I'd done some stuff

23:40

around child psychology as well. So I thought, you

23:44

know what? While it was fresh in my mind, I thought I'm I'm gonna write

23:47

a book for children on Overcoming and managing

23:51

anxiety and worry. So it was based on

23:55

what I'd researched and discovered from that and also

23:58

from my own experience with my own children. And I

24:02

thought, well, I'm just gonna approach some publishers. It took a couple of years,

24:06

But, eventually, one of them said, yeah. We would be

24:10

interested, but, really, we'd like a series of books.

24:14

I went, wow. Really? Okay.

24:19

So we discussed it, and I suggested did a

24:22

book on managing for children on managing anger,

24:26

1 on managing being teased and

24:30

bullied, Another one on jealousy. So, yeah, a series of

24:33

8 books with I was really pleased that the editors

24:37

suggested that at the back of each book, there would be

24:41

Notes for parents and carers and

24:44

educators. So although the the child would read the book or you'd read the book

24:48

with the child, I was able Put in the back of each book

24:52

some sort of tips and ideas for how you you know, a parent could

24:56

support their child with whatever the issue was. And we found

24:59

a great illustrator. So they're beautifully

25:03

illustrated. Yeah. I was I was it really is quite something to

25:07

Right. And then have someone else

25:11

actually take all your ideas and literally Illustrate

25:15

them. I felt like that must be what it's like with, Elton John

25:19

and Bernie Taupin. You know, Bernie Taupin writes the lyrics, And then

25:22

now John puts it all to music. I mean, it must be amazing for Bernie

25:26

talking about that, wasn't it? Yeah. Definitely.

25:30

That's awesome. I like that you just mentioned you have notes in the back for

25:34

parents because I have a 6 year old, and we I

25:37

started getting kind of books around, like, dealing with emotions or

25:41

just different different types of people, and And I would

25:45

read it and always kind of be like, am I is this enough? Like, is

25:48

that, like, all I have to do is read a book and, like, boom, you're,

25:50

like, brilliant? Like, I don't know. So Yeah. I love that. What's, what

25:54

is that series called? It's called kids

25:58

can cope. You know, you can go on Amazon or or

26:01

any of the big booksellers and Put either just put my

26:05

name, Jill Hasson, in into Amazon and or

26:09

kids can cope and and up will come these books.

26:13

I am legit getting them. Like, it it is happening. Like, I I

26:16

cannot wait. Because I think, like, he's just at that stage

26:20

where he's got a lot of big emotions, and I don't know that he knows

26:24

how what they mean or why they're there. And

26:28

and I'm trying, to help him identify that. Like, we started

26:31

meditating, which that has been hilarious to meditate with a

26:35

6 year old. But, yeah,

26:38

I just want him to kind of understand himself a little bit better. So

26:42

Yeah. And if you know, our listeners are, like, All different

26:46

ages. And, you know, they have kids, and they have grandkids,

26:49

and they have nieces and nephews. I mean, like,

26:53

I'm interested. I'm not reading the books. Yeah. You know? Because of your as we

26:57

get older, we regress a tiny bit. You know? Yeah.

27:00

Well, yeah, we yeah. We regress, but the other

27:04

thing is I thought yeah. I I actually gave the manuscript, first of

27:08

all, To, one of my nieces who has young children herself,

27:12

and she's 35. And she said, well, I learned a

27:16

lot from that just from from reading the book with, you know, With with my

27:19

kids. So, yeah, I think that's another thing that we find

27:23

when we are with Children,

27:26

whether yeah. As you say, they're are our kids. They're nieces, nephews.

27:30

But when you're discussing and Explaining

27:33

things and exchanging views with children. You just you just

27:37

learn so much again. It takes you back to what did I think when I

27:41

was that age or what was my experience. And, yeah, having to

27:45

explain things to kids is and discuss things

27:48

with them is, yeah, it's great for all of us because it, yeah, it touches

27:52

Just the the child within us as well exactly as you say. And I

27:55

I think the other great thing too is, like, helps us to normalize that

27:59

stigma around mental Mental health, right?

28:03

And dealing with those emotions and bring it to the forefront

28:07

like when they're young and not feeling So

28:11

alone or isolated when they're adults and they're feeling those

28:15

those types of feelings or stuff that's happening to them. You

28:18

know, Having those books and having being able to go back to them and read

28:22

them, I think, is is is really cool.

28:26

Yeah. The talking about emotions, One one of the other

28:29

things is we all actually have a very

28:33

limited vocabulary for emotions, which is what I find

28:37

interesting. We tend to use the

28:40

same words, each of us. We have our own sort of

28:44

words. So I'm happy. I'm

28:48

Thrilled. I'm really excited or, you know, I'm

28:51

pissed off or I'm sad or I'm angry, but there's a

28:55

whole Gamut of stuff in between all of that. So, you know,

28:59

sometimes you might say to someone, gosh. You seem really disappointed.

29:03

And If they're quite emotionally aware,

29:07

they might say, no. Actually, do you know what? I'm not disappointed. I'm

29:11

frustrated. That's what I am. So I think that's something

29:15

else we can do with children that's helpful for ourselves as well

29:19

is is actually widen our vocabulary

29:22

because Our emotions are very nuanced. We we have

29:26

these basic emotions, happiness, sadness,

29:30

disgust, joy. Can't remember the other. There's

29:33

7 basic emotions. There's such there's such a a load

29:37

of nuance ones in between that. So so, You know,

29:41

looking up words for emotions and and

29:44

discussing what the differences mean. I mean, even something like I

29:48

I have To let you into a bit of a secret here, I

29:52

once wrote, I thought I'm gonna write something about managing

29:57

Jealousy. So I wrote a

30:00

piece in a book all about jealousy.

30:04

And then I in a further book,

30:08

I thought, do you know what? I've written about jealousy, but How does that

30:12

differ from envy? They're they're the same thing, aren't they?

30:16

Oh, no. They are not. I

30:20

discovered that jealousy and envy are 2 different things. And where I

30:23

had written in the 1st book all about jealousy, I was actually

30:27

describing envy. Oh, no. So tell us No one's

30:30

ever written to me about that, but quite simply. And and I I

30:34

often say to people, what do you think the diff well, let me ask you

30:37

guys. What was difference between jealousy and envy.

30:41

Yep. When you said the 2 words, the the difference to me, what it means,

30:45

I feel like if I was jealous, I'm

30:48

I want what they have. If I'm envious,

30:53

I appreciate what they have. Like, I don't want it. I'm like,

30:56

oh, that must be really nice to have that. I don't know.

31:00

Yeah. And we yes and no. It's Okay.

31:04

Failed. Failed. Any more answers? Any more

31:08

guesses? Mine mine was gonna be similar to what Dirty

31:12

Skittles is, but, Like, see? This is us learning. Yeah.

31:15

Sure. Right? Okay. Yeah. Down. Yeah. Write it up. I'll tell you. And then my,

31:20

Interpretation. You know, again, I've researched it. I've looked it up in dictionaries

31:24

and and psychology books. So quite simply,

31:28

when you're jealous, You're afraid that someone's going to take

31:31

away something that you've got. Mhmm. So if

31:35

you're jealous of someone Talking to your partner, for

31:39

example, that's a classic thing that people go, I'm I'm jealous of that, you

31:42

know, he or she is talking to my partner. You're concerned that

31:46

they're going to win over their affections and and and take

31:50

take your partner away from you. Whereas When so

31:54

when you're jealous, you're afraid that someone's going to take away

31:57

something that you've got through some particular

32:01

Special powers or abilities or skills that they've got.

32:05

If you're envious, you want something that someone

32:09

else has got. So if I envy your envy your

32:14

house, I might say, wow. I love your house. I'm so

32:17

envious. I I would really, Not in a nasty way, but I would

32:21

really like to have a house like you. Yeah. But I can be

32:25

jealous of your house because it doesn't Threaten me in any

32:29

way. So jealous is feeling threatened. Envy is is more

32:32

benign. It's more like, oh, I'd love to have what you've got. Right.

32:37

Learning new shit every day. Every day. Right?

32:40

This is why I love doing the podcast because we learn something

32:44

new with every episode. And it's you

32:48

know, it's it's stuff we can carry with us. Right? And,

32:51

Jill, I love everything you've got Like, the books

32:55

and yeah. I mean, you've opened my eyes, and now I'm gonna go buy all

32:59

your books. Right. I love you

33:03

for that. Right? So I have 3 fun

33:06

questions for us to sort of kind of end on.

33:10

First1, What when you think about your day today, what has

33:14

inspired you today? What has

33:17

inspired me, my the friend that I Bumped

33:21

into quite by accident. She

33:26

she's amazing. She's As a mature

33:29

student herself, she also retrained, and now she works

33:33

as an occupational therapist In

33:37

a mental health facility, and she told me today that

33:40

she's just been offered a new job working

33:44

with people who are managing

33:49

quite high end mental health difficulties,

33:53

Personality disorders and schizophrenia. And she's

33:57

worked really hard to get there, and she's she's just great at, you

34:00

know, working with other people. So That inspired me. The fact

34:04

that she goes well, I live on the coast in the UK.

34:08

She goes swimming in the sea Every day and

34:12

every time unless it's really rough and dangerous. But every time I

34:15

see her, I say, you've been swimming today? She says, yeah. I

34:19

think, oh my goodness. How did that happen? I just can't even

34:23

have a cold shower. I can't bear it. So,

34:27

Yeah. A couple of things about her today. Her name's Lara, yeah,

34:31

that that I find in inspiring. She she brought up

34:34

her Child, you know, from a very young age, she's,

34:38

yeah, she's she's had it quite tough, but she's just

34:42

Perseverance. She's being persistent. And what I know again about

34:46

persistence, about the different words that we use is with persistence,

34:50

It doesn't mean you just keep doggedly going, and

34:54

it you just keep pushing through and Launching

34:58

everything out the way. Persistence means that when you do come

35:01

across difficulties and challenges, you are flexible

35:05

and you find another way around it. So it's looking at

35:09

moving forward, but looking at well, okay, there's

35:13

a block. So what's How can I get around that? What

35:17

are my options? How can I do that? So, yeah, she she

35:20

inspires me with her ability to do that. Graz, what about you?

35:24

What inspired you today? The weather. The weather because it's

35:28

starting to get cooler and get And cold

35:32

weather reminds me really of the holidays. Mhmm. So it inspired

35:35

me to, you know, clean my office up a little bit today so I

35:39

can get everything ready for the holidays and

35:43

just, some different things, different traditions we're gonna

35:46

try out to share With her her family and her friends.

35:50

Uh-huh. I'm like I said, I'm in a

35:54

much, much, Much better headspace this year than I was last

35:57

year. And I I wanna try and, do some

36:01

things that my mom really liked doing around the holidays And and

36:05

still that kind of intel what we do now for the holidays.

36:09

I love that. That's awesome. Right. What about you? Being

36:13

outside, getting out of the house, being in the fresh air,

36:16

looking at the last bits of leaves as they fall, like, just being

36:20

outside, it was very calming and relaxing and refreshing. It was

36:24

all all inspiring. And it also was like, you know, take a minute.

36:27

Right? Like, take a minute away from the craziness and just kind of get outside.

36:31

So That's good. Next question.

36:34

Yeah. Looking at your career so far, what has been the most rewarding

36:38

thing? Seeing other

36:41

people fulfill their potential in so many ways. I I get

36:45

a I I'm just So fortunate that people

36:49

keep in touch. They I get immediate feedback. Sometimes

36:53

people tell me, wow, that was, you know, such a great Book

36:57

or a lesson or a course that they've been on. Yeah.

37:00

People email me and tell me about how

37:05

My books have really helped them to get through difficulty

37:09

in life or inspired them to do something in life.

37:12

So, Yeah. That that's just the feedback. I'm I'm very

37:16

fortunate that that I get that, that that people

37:20

let me know how much What I do in my work has helped

37:24

them. Yeah. I feel like that's us too. Like, we can

37:28

share that sentiment in the podcast that we have. Like, it's

37:31

very rewarding to hear that people are

37:34

listening and enjoy it. So Yeah. And I think I think it's something

37:39

The you know, it's important for people to realize that you don't have to write

37:42

a book, run a course, or or deliver a podcast that we can all

37:46

contribute Towards each other in in some way.

37:50

I know it's a cliche, but, you know, it's the little kindnesses that

37:53

counts. It's just, you know, maybe complimenting somebody

37:57

in a a a store who works behind the counter

38:01

or yeah. Just be nice to each other. Small thing.

38:04

Yeah. Yeah. Be kind. Be kind. Seriously.

38:09

Okay. Last one. And, G Rex, you've answered this

38:13

before, so feel free to skip it if you want. Last 1, Jill.

38:17

If you can go back to a younger version of yourself, what would you tell

38:20

yourself, And how old would you be? Oh,

38:24

yeah. Gosh. That's interesting. I would

38:29

I would tell my Young

38:32

teenage self. So so sort of from, you know, between the ages

38:36

of 12 to 18, you know

38:39

what? Things will work out. You will

38:43

become an adult, and you will be a lot more independent and be

38:46

able to make your own choices And forge your

38:50

own path. You're just gonna have to wait it out. You'll

38:54

find you'll find your, an

38:57

expression we use here. I don't know if you do that. You'll find your

39:01

own tribe. I had friends as a kid, but

39:04

not People that I really felt that I they understood

39:08

me, and I understood them. That that happened once I got into my late teens.

39:12

I found the right sort of People and friends. So

39:15

that's what I tell myself. Just be patient. And,

39:19

unfortunately, that was something I just grew up But anyway,

39:23

my dad used to say to me often, Jill, just

39:26

be patient. And he was absolutely right.

39:30

Yeah. I love that. I love that. I I actually do

39:34

have 1. So I would have been in my forties.

39:38

Well And I would have told myself set those boundaries.

39:43

I think if I had done that in my forties, That

39:46

things would have been different for me going forward.

39:50

Like, I probably wouldn't have had a mental breakdown.

39:54

I probably would have made some better career decisions,

39:57

things like that. Setting boundaries is super

40:01

important. It is Yeah. And you have to you have to make it a you've

40:05

gotta make it a priority. Yeah. Yeah. If you gotta be assertive with

40:09

yourself, you gotta say, no. This is what I what I Just how did my

40:12

limits work? That's it. I

40:15

agree. Well, this has been wonderful, Jill. Thank you so much

40:19

for hanging out with us, talking to us about what you do. I'm I

40:23

swear to you, I'm going to buy the series. I cannot Freaking weight.

40:27

It is. As soon as you said Amazon, I was like, yes. Getting it

40:30

now. Like, it's happening. Right. I've had a great

40:34

time chatting with you both. Thank you. Thank you so much.

40:44

It's okay to be not okay. Just make sure you're talking to