1:14

Hosting with me today is my partner my ADHD squirrel wrangler my

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Submissive my brat my little my pony or just my little pony

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The Nate dog to my warringy little bit. Oh my gosh

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This is episode number 10 and with us today

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is

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Paul Rulof and his partner

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Cherry watermelon

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Thank you for having us on here to talk to us about age play

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Paul talks about his past work with age play

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Delves into age play related questions as well

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Talking about age play related events that he runs in St. Louis

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But first a word from our sponsor

2:04

Paul Rulof aka rule of three has been part of the alternative sexuality community for over 10 years

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largely focused on promoting and educating about age play during that time

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He has engaged in many activities that have helped hundreds of people learn about explore

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Problem-solve and think about their interests in age play

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He has started and contributed to many different age play projects. He helped found

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The Chicago age play players founded Capcon the Midwest age play convention and the St. Louis age players

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He also has the nonfiction book age play from diapers to diplomas and his working on a book solely for caregivers

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He also lectures across the country and internationally largely about age play mental play and age play relationship

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Dynamics he has presented age play topics at many different alternative sexuality conferences clubs and events all across the US

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This includes addressing age play at cars an alternative sexuality academic conference for professionals including health care workers and

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mental health professionals

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He also has served as an expert witness on age play for Texas Supreme Court case

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Paul is also a therapist and coach serving alternative lifestyle individuals

3:26

Cherry watermelon she her hers is a passionate kinkster who loves to talk about all things kink and sex

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She spent many years as an adult store manager in canna which is letter to being able to combine her knowledge of sex toys and kink

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Creating and fostering an inclusive environment for all people is her goal

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She brings with her over nine years of being involved in the kink community both in St. Louis and her hometown of Niagara Falls, Canada

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She identifies as bottom middle princess and emotional massacres

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She is co-host of the age play munch in St. Louis as well as the age play fun days

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She believes kink should be a safe place for everyone to explore

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Thank you for being here in the synagogue

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Let's talk about age play. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so we'll start off the bat with what is age play and what isn't age play?

4:22

sure

4:25

so age play is

4:28

Basic there's so there's two different kinds of age play to start there is either

4:33

role playing or a ratic role playing and a lot of times we can see this in the

4:38

the mainstream porn such as

4:41

schoolgirl teacher or

4:44

naughty schoolgirl or cheerleader type fantasies

4:49

And

4:52

then there's also regressive age play where people kind of

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Walk back in their own personal timeline to an earlier more innocent headspace and

5:03

age play in general is

5:06

role playing or regression that takes us to a different age

5:13

a lot of times it's more for that

5:16

Innocence that fun that that people want to have a lot of times there's vibrant emotions in there as well

5:26

age play is not

5:28

largely the thing that I talk about most is it's not pedophilia it doesn't

5:34

create a minor it doesn't

5:37

fulfill that drive in those individuals a lot of times there is

5:43

innocent

5:46

fun play like going to the zoo other times it's

5:51

darker more spicy age play that does have some sexual components as well and it also really

5:57

Mary as well with folks who are diaper lovers sometimes

6:00

Brandy did you have anything you want to add?

6:03

Just to reinforce that you know

6:07

age play is

6:10

between two consenting adults

6:12

Very good so why do people enjoy age play?

6:20

Well, I think for a lot of us

6:24

It allows us to go back to a time in which maybe wasn't so good and we get to

6:34

recreate some experiences

6:37

That we didn't get to have that help us

6:40

Maybe heal some of those parts in us and move forward

6:47

In a better headspace

6:51

Maybe You know there's a lot of trans folks who are into age play who get to re-experience

6:57

Growing up in the gender that they are and not the gender that they were assigned at birth

7:02

And at least for me from the caregiver side it's really an opportunity to

7:11

Help people grow help people

7:15

Shape kind of impart wisdom provide that guidance and sometimes really see

7:22

Actual change in people's lives because of that age play dynamic

7:28

so for example, I

7:31

I taught Brandy how to drive she had not driven before she tried back when she lived in Niagara Falls, but it was

7:42

A lot of anxiety a lot of fear and just like a real parent I took her aside and we went through the whole driving process from

7:52

Getting her just into the driver's seat until when she finally got her

7:57

Her driver's license

8:00

And then we went through the terrible teenage years of driving

8:07

I've also heard that the concept of the shrinking childhood can lead to people

8:14

Embracing age play as they get older

8:17

The Putting adult responsibilities on children before they're ready to do that and then going back and wanting to reclaim that childhood

8:26

And that's definitely something that at least I've heard an awful lot of

8:32

especially from

8:35

From the oldest daughter in a family who is often

8:40

Really kind of run over with a lot of caregiving responsibilities when they're very young

8:46

I've had folks like

8:49

Tell me that when they were eight they were

8:51

cooking dinner for the family or

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The primary caregiver for the younger siblings or things like that

8:58

I think very much in this post pandemic world we're due for an age play explosion in a few years

9:06

All the kids who got stuck at home with their younger siblings watching them basically all day long and taking care for them

9:13

Well, mom and dad still how to go to work close schools closed

9:17

Um, I think it's just a matter of time

9:21

Yeah, I mean I can echo that as you know the oldest daughter the oldest cousin and the oldest granddaughter

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Don't find right there with you exactly you feel it

9:34

it it is a way to

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Lesson that load that you've carried around your entire life and

9:41

get to um

9:43

Let somebody take care of you and and be vulnerable

9:47

and

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What from the big side what do you get out of it? I think really

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If we're talking about demographics, I think we are definitely due for

9:58

an explosion of biggs as well because people are having

10:03

less children and

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I would so I don't have any actual physical children um, but

10:11

I'm able to tap into that

10:14

parenting side through age play and helping brandy along and

10:20

being her daddy that

10:23

I I kind of miss out on by having by not having actual biological children and so it creates a

10:32

It creates a source of satisfaction for you without the

10:38

I wouldn't say responsibility, but even just the

10:43

you know actual you know of having biological children you can still satisfy part of that aspect for yourself

10:51

definitely and

10:54

So brandy is a middle an age player who

10:59

focuses not necessarily on

11:01

The the childish aspects, but more of the adolescent and teenage ones

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so As a daddy for her we didn't have to go through

11:12

diaper stuff or

11:15

feeding her or anything like that we just

11:19

Kind of take the really fun activities of

11:22

Going out and doing stuff or working together on projects and and run with that

11:29

So let's take a minute and for listeners who maybe have never

11:37

Delved into age play before let's define what little and bigs are and

11:42

What different types there are?

11:45

Sure from the big side there's generally a breakdown of

11:49

of caregivers versus bigs and how I conceptualize it is

11:56

caregivers are people that

11:58

that provide care to their non-caregiver partner their people that actually care and this is usually a

12:08

mommy daddy

12:11

Big brother sort of role and awful lot of the times

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There's as a big

12:17

you can also have age play scenarios that don't involve

12:23

Being beneficial to the the non-caregiver partner so we could do an age play medical scene where

12:31

it's the big scary doctor and

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The the little kid having to go in and get a shot or something like that and that would be more of a big

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Versus a caregiver because they aren't necessarily doing

12:43

positive stuff I

12:46

Like how you put that it's not always positive stuff

12:51

And I can foresee the you know in that aspect of being a big even if in general

12:57

you might be a daddy or a mommy or a caregiver

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in the scenario of

13:05

You're a big and you know you've decided to do something

13:10

Scene-wise with the little and say it's like as you were saying, you know the big scary doctor

13:18

You know getting a giving a shot will then that you're incorporating age play and maybe needle play at the same time

13:26

And age play is definitely an umbrella

13:29

fetish or kink where a lot of stuff falls

13:32

underneath of it

13:35

You can play cowboys and indians and have rope play in there as well or

13:41

Really a lot of stuff just falls into that that you can really customize

13:46

Little's would start at you know, you can be an adult baby where you

13:50

Where diapers and prefer to be in a crib

13:55

hand-fed

13:57

non-verbal I would say that's a lot of like infant play and then

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Little's tend to be

14:06

At the toddler stage up until I would say six or seven in age

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and then you would have

14:16

A lot more like coloring movie time

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Some fun arts and crafts

14:23

You would probably be the little that's scared to go to the doctor and get the needle

14:28

um And that age range um and then you have

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Middles

14:34

and A tend to be anywhere from ten I'm gonna say ten to eighteen

14:39

I know there are some older middles

14:41

um

14:44

They tend to be

14:46

In my experience more involved in the sexual side of age play

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as well as like the naughty babysitters

14:54

um

14:56

So middles can fall into being

14:58

On the little side but also the caregiver side because I also know a lot of middles that when we're around little's

15:05

We tend to be like oh no you dropped your sippy cup and we like help them and um kind of take care of them too so you get

15:13

A like a middle ground there which is fun and fun to play in

15:16

Yeah, the middle's just kind of our our kind of get to play a little bit on both sides um and like I said they tend to fall into the more um

15:25

sexual part of it um

15:28

My middle is very angsty and

15:31

Living out my goth fantasies that I wanted to live in when I was you know

15:36

1314 and didn't have money and now I do

15:40

and so I can

15:42

Really create a space for myself that makes that part of my childhood really uh happy

15:49

I mean I know a lot of people use age play and

15:54

DDLG daddy don't little girl interchangeably

15:58

But it's I think it's important to remember that

16:00

uh Any gender any orientation

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Can be used in age play

16:06

Mommy's daddy's caregivers

16:08

Little boys little girls little children

16:12

Whatever Yeah, it doesn't I mean I think

16:16

DDLG relationships get a lot of attention especially like on tick-tock and whatnot um it's pretty prevalent

16:23

but

16:25

age play relationships and age play dynamics can involve

16:28

Anyone any gender any sexual orientation. It's not just heteronormative

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and really the

16:35

There's opportunities for

16:37

Having family roles as well as non-family roles in there as well

16:42

So yet it may be DDLG, but it may also be just

16:46

Two middles hanging out at a store or

16:50

Little is going to the zoo or something along those lines

16:54

So what other kind of things do people do in age play for a scene for play

17:01

a lot of times there are

17:07

Some branding dynamics that people enjoy and other people enjoy being good girls and Brandy can definitely

17:12

Talk more to that

17:16

But I think one thing that as a big I really enjoy is

17:22

Being able to show people stuff that they haven't before

17:27

So whether that's going to a museum or

17:30

Whatever sort of outing it is or else

17:36

Sometimes just the care and affection that

17:38

That people may not have necessarily had during that that portion in their childhood

17:45

and for people who

17:48

During the day they have a hard job and a lot of pressure are able to just kick back and relax and

17:56

Play with Legos or get into a cartoon or whatever that is seeing that

18:03

That stepping back that freedom is something that I I especially love

18:07

Yeah, I I think when I'm

18:12

When I'm thinking of scenes and I'm thinking of people play um

18:16

Definitely so for me I I don't think I'm a brat um

18:23

I might be a little bit mouthy, but 99% of the time I'm gonna do what I'm told maybe

18:31

Not with enthusiasm, but I'm definitely gonna do it um

18:35

So I feel like I feel like

18:38

Brats definitely fall into a little bit of the age play and you know you can see a lot of scenes where there's like spanking going on and there's some fight back

18:46

um Or you know some melting off to try and get like a harder spanking um

18:52

I think that I tend to brat if I'm bottoming with somebody else. I try to get them in more trouble than I can get into

18:58

um That's usually what I you know, I'll be like oh they said this you should hit them harder and you know so that I can have a breather um

19:07

And then I usually get it back because they're like oh you bitch um but

19:11

But yeah, a lot of I think age play could be mixed into

19:16

any kind of like BDSM play as long as

19:20

It's talked about before you know if you're doing pick-up play with somebody who doesn't feel comfortable with

19:26

You're a little side then you know you want to talk about that

19:30

But if you've got if you're playing with your Dom and your Dom is also your daddy

19:33

I feel like those aspects of of your dynamic come out

19:37

Whether you want them to or not they're there

19:40

They're always prevalent um

19:43

Like Paul and I we slip into our dynamic

19:49

Throughout the day at so many different times so when we play it's hard not to

19:55

Have that come out too, right? There's points where I'm you know

19:57

I'm being obedient and I'm listening and then there's parts where I'm pouting and being like daddy. Why are you hurting me?

20:02

so

20:04

So yeah, I think I think it just can be around with everything and it it flows through

20:09

It is really a natural and fluid

20:13

progression at least the structure of our relationships

20:17

because sometimes she might be needy or wanting support or

20:23

Whatever that is and it's perfectly fine and

20:26

other times it's just

20:29

fun or sexy or even

20:32

Harder with with punishment or something like that

20:35

You mentioned brats brats have a uh, let's say controversial

20:43

reputation within the communities

20:46

How do you define brat and I'm going to assume since you identify as one?

20:52

Why do you feel that uh

20:54

That bad reputation is not quite deserved

20:57

so

20:59

Mm so I'm good to say

21:02

sometimes Brats deserve the reputation that they get

21:05

Because I don't think they necessarily

21:08

Ask for consent when they're bradding

21:11

And I think that that's important. I think that you wouldn't um

21:16

You wouldn't go up to anybody and just smack them across the face if that's your kink

21:22

Without consent and I feel like

21:24

Bratting is the same way if you're gonna brat

21:26

It needs to be consented by both parties

21:29

Not every top wants to be a brat tamer

21:32

Not every top can be a brat tamer

21:34

um And I feel like

21:37

I feel like sometimes in those cases the reputation is deserved however

21:40

For the most part it's

21:43

Yeah, so brats need it needs to be consented on by both parties

21:47

I think it's important that if you are a

21:50

A really braddy brat and that's something you do all the time

21:52

That you need to have a safe word for your top when they're really are just done with your shit and

21:57

And you need to be able to stop like with anything

22:01

There needs to be a way to just be like okay. I'm really done can you can you just fucking go pick up your socks

22:06

You know what I mean and um and just be like this is like we're done with this whole thing go do what it is that you need to do um

22:14

But I think for the most part it's playful and it's fun and it can be

22:20

Kind of sexy to be like I'm not gonna go do that and then you get grabbed by the back of your hair and made to go do that

22:27

Or by the side of like you know by the your earlobe and you're like no you are going to do these things

22:33

um, so I don't think it's

22:36

A general deserved bad reputation that they get I think it should be based on the individual and who they are in the community and that they are aware of what they're doing

22:48

At least from my side I see brats as

22:51

contributing energy to the scene or else

22:57

Kind of egging their partner on

23:00

To be more intense or to provoke that reaction

23:05

And a lot of times when

23:08

When people know each other well

23:11

that

23:15

Let's the brat have a finer amata control and

23:18

Brandy can do whatever she does to

23:22

Make me spank her tougher or

23:26

Biter or whatever it happens to be and

23:29

sometimes that encouragement is really

23:32

Needed or necessary and it's kind of a shorthand for saying hey, can you up that intensity or can you

23:39

Can you do this without formally laying it out there?

23:44

The question also would then be you know between the two of you

23:49

um, you know

23:52

essentially more of a bit of a

23:55

blanket consent when it comes to braiding

23:59

um is there

24:01

So that way it's not negotiated each and every time of like I'm gonna breath today is that okay?

24:06

Yeah, definitely

24:08

It's definitely there is a blanket consent

24:11

But at any point, you know Paul could say like I just

24:15

I just need you to do the things and I'd be like okay understood, you know and

24:20

And you and you get that like okay. I got it today is not the day

24:24

Yeah, yeah, like of course at any time, you know consent being revoked and and all of that

24:31

But I mean to initiate it it's that like it for and then

24:34

And then you know if he's just like nope not today. This is nope

24:41

Even without the say for it or whatever it's just you know the difference and it's like all right

24:46

Let me back off. Let me just do the things right and I mean vice versa, right?

24:50

Like sometimes you just don't want to be talked and sometimes you're like you know what?

24:52

I'm just so not in the mood to be told what to do today. So

24:55

You know it's

24:59

It's blanket consent for both of us, but we are able to kind of

25:02

Understand what we're doing and what we need from each other

25:09

Sure, I mean anything done without consent is not kink in my book

25:15

So if it's a brat who doesn't have consent then they're not a brat. They're just an ass. Yeah

25:20

plain and simple yes

25:23

So my introduction to age play was literally my first

25:31

Night involved in kink met somebody online. We went to dinner. They're telling me out

25:38

Me about the different types of power exchange they mentioned daddy dumb little girl

25:43

I went that's it. That's me

25:45

What is that? For a little bit her first experience was with me

25:51

We were just beginning talking and she kept saying things. I'm like are you sure you're not a little

25:57

I'm not a little are you sure you're not a little

25:59

Not a little and then one day her response instead was I is not a little

26:06

And haven't looked back since then so what is one your two's introduction to age play and

26:14

For those who want to introduce their partner to age play who want to explore it

26:18

How would you recommend them getting into it?

26:21

So my introduction to age play and because I'm an old dinosaur there wasn't really much

26:28

available

26:31

Online at that point that I was able to find other than

26:37

A lot of times the adult baby stuff and I knew that wasn't necessarily

26:41

My cup of tea

26:43

There Was a website called little girl lost where

26:47

whoever ran it

26:50

Had kind of The different ages that they enjoyed playing and it was also very

26:55

very kind of gothie as well

26:58

um

27:01

And it was really kind of a struggle because without

27:06

Without a lot of education without a lot of

27:10

community knowledge

27:13

It was it was really kind of an interesting point because I would I really had to question myself and say you know

27:20

Am I a pedophile I love

27:23

Plads skirts I love that concept of innocence

27:27

but yet

27:29

The girls that I were looking I was looking at were in their

27:32

20s 30s and 40s

27:35

So I was able to rule that out but there was a good amount of time where

27:38

It was a real

27:41

questioning thing because we didn't have the

27:43

sexual education and

27:46

The knowledge of the fetishes that we that we do now

27:50

Even when I started teaching probably 10 years ago or so a lot of the communities that I visited

27:57

This was the first time that they had heard about age play as well

28:00

so that

28:04

I feel like it was kind of a rocky start for me until I was able to

28:08

find people that

28:10

could really reinforce that and

28:12

And say you know what I love being treated with

28:15

That care or I love you dadying me and then that kind of took off

28:21

um

28:23

Well, I will say you were one of those people to me who was affirming of that identity

28:28

My first kink convention five months later

28:31

You're there teaching a class on age play so thank you for that really been blessed to go to a lot of different areas and

28:38

and provide that reassurance

28:41

because

28:43

I mean I kind of grew up kinkin chicago and

28:46

There wasn't really anybody that

28:50

Talked about it or did it we had one age play class at a convention that I went to and I was like

28:55

This is only looking at such a small

28:59

fragment usually the adult baby the very the very much littles and it didn't talk about caregivers at all either

29:07

And that's what really kind of inspired me to

29:10

To go out and teach and kind of spread that word there

29:14

as far as

29:18

As far as seeing if other people are interested in it there's

29:22

I guess sometimes that carefree aspect or

29:27

that little bit of innocence that

29:29

That is kind of that spark

29:32

And just like you said with little bit you know

29:35

other people can kind of see that as well and

29:40

Maybe they do ask you know are you a little and

29:44

After a while there is some hesitance and some pushback from

29:49

From a lot of people who eventually do say that they're littles and

29:53

I'm not sure if it's just the stigma of

29:57

the irresponsibility or of play or

30:01

That

30:03

Not being one wanting to be seen as a kid

30:05

um or childlike because our society

30:09

Really values independence and hard work and whatnot

30:14

But a lot of folks who start out by having other people noticing that do kind of

30:20

Explore and some of them are like yeah, I really am a little

30:26

And while society kind of looks its nose down on

30:29

Age play both the king community and the vanilla community

30:34

You go and look in popular culture and there is just so much stuff that is

30:39

Age play like the Halloween costumes for cheerleaders and schoolgirls and whatnot or

30:47

songs like

30:50

Hot for teacher nobody will convince me that is not an age play song or

30:55

Uh Father figure yeah or I mean those are are very explicitly age play songs

31:02

There were some that are more subtle and whatnot

31:05

Odadi by Fleetwood Mac

31:08

um But also tell me hot topic is not age play central

31:14

I couldn't try harder

31:16

Just gonna say and

31:21

Cheerio watermelon. Yes and and your origin story. How did you how did you get in it?

31:26

Oh, um so

31:30

About 10 years ago is when I kind of discovered my kink side so in my early 30s and um

31:37

I found tumbler

31:40

and if you remember, you know 10 years ago tumbler was like at its peak of like bdsm blogs and stuff like that um

31:48

and

31:50

So I had a pretty decent size following on tumbler and uh, I actually met my ex-husband on tumbler and

31:58

our dynamic

32:01

started off as the very uh

32:03

traditional ds dynamic um and then I

32:08

I knew that so I'm just gonna be completely honest. I knew I was little. I didn't want to admit it

32:14

um It was more palatable for me to say that I was a kitten

32:19

and I wanted that kind of care and affection

32:21

in my play as well rather than uh

32:26

rather than just out and admit that I was I was little and I didn't really know where I was falling in the little um

32:32

space I

32:34

I didn't want to admit it because

32:36

I'm super close to my dad and I was like oh god am I weird?

32:40

I don't want to fuck my dad like what is wrong with me and I had to go through a lot of that to be to get to where I

32:47

where I was and

32:49

when I finally admitted to my partner well my partner said um it's time to go to bed

32:56

and I just without thinking went okay daddy and that was it and it just hit hit the ground running

33:01

and that's that's where we went um

33:04

and then I came out to I actually had to come out to my friends in kink because

33:11

I was

33:13

stepping into the scene and I was really nervous about telling everybody that I was a little

33:16

and I was like I don't know how they're gonna react to this no one had ever said anything bad but

33:22

I had heard you know people outside of my circle not you know being like little or so annoying

33:28

and they're so this and they're so that and so when I told my friends they all just looked at me

33:31

and they were like yeah no kidding and I was like oh so it's obvious to everybody okay great um

33:38

and and then from there it really um it really just kind of became part of my kink

33:45

yeah very cool nice so how much for you does the kitten identity overlap with the little

33:51

identity are they separate are they intertwined are they overlapping so the funny thing about

33:56

kink is that you were forever changing and um I do not I am not a kitten um pet play for me

34:05

I tried and I I felt like that was more comfortable but I am not I am not a kitten any longer that

34:13

part kind of just fell to the way side though recently I have discovered how much I love hukau

34:18

so that is definitely more aligned with my with my kinks uh because I like

34:27

I like the dark side of the stuff like sure the fun and innocence is great in all but like

34:34

my emotional massacism really is I would say my my most prevalent and

34:42

the kink that gives me the most back so you know dark age play is really where

34:49

mind and pause play exists um and then saying with hukau I kind of like how there is like this light

34:57

like prettiness to the cow but then also like a darker side does that make sense yeah okay that's fair

35:04

yeah absolutely I mean we're both very much into the the hybrid little stuff or hybrid age

35:12

play stuff a little bit um if it's not obvious is little pony so both identities at the same time

35:21

sometimes separate as well I identify as a bratty daddy um and I would say those are complete

35:27

overlaps for me what ones have you heard out there which ones do you find interesting um a lot of

35:35

people who are really into unusual pet play um things like raccoons or other animals that I that I hear

35:47

an awful lot that they overlap with their their little age play they have multiple roles and sometimes they

35:56

they kind of go from pet to little and a lot of still caring qualities kind of in there as well

36:06

I would say like if you come to if you're ever in saint louis and you are around here and you come

36:13

to our age playmunch you are going to see just as many littles as you are going to see pups and

36:18

furries at our munch um they I think they completely overlap with each other um you know you'll have

36:25

people in their furry costumes wearing diapers and those just go hand in hand and I think as a little

36:33

as a middle I love when people come as they're you know they're animal selves because what little

36:39

doesn't want to play with a puppy or a cat or something like that you know and it just is like the most

36:45

it's like it's like a match made in heaven like we all want to play together and we all coincide

36:49

together and the energy is spectacular I'm fascinated by the raccoon in a little because that's not

36:58

what I really want to say well it's kind of troublemaking and mischievous and I can definitely fix it

37:05

yeah there's a lot of people who are like which I think is great because also identify as a goblin

37:10

and so you know you're just kind of like a little chaos goblin causing problems as you run around

37:14

and a lot of like not like Teehee's but a lot of hehehe and uh you know and you kind of just

37:22

are causing mayhem I mean one of my favorites I've seen out there is combining the mommy caregiver

37:32

with puppy play and it winds up looking like nana from the Peter Pan cartoon that's spectacular

37:42

like I'm intrigued by so I've been hearing a new trend of um what was it and I don't know why this

37:50

hasn't happened sooner I granted at least an art area region of like they have um a pet and littles

38:00

like playday type of thing and so they're like hey so we're gonna have a mosh but we're gonna

38:05

invite the littles to play with like you know all of the pets pull your ears and tails yeah um

38:13

but you know and and they're like oh my goodness who would have thought this would be so much fun

38:19

of having the littles and the pets together and I'm going duh I mean it really makes sense um

38:26

it really does so you know it seems I've come across at a couple of times at like different events

38:34

and they're like why didn't we think of this sooner well yeah I didn't think of this sooner this is

38:40

like you know a really good thing of you know of play and enjoyment and allowing people to do the

38:48

different things and look I got a new puppy but I don't have to take it home and actually care for

38:53

it I can leave it here and it can like magically like you know adult itself

38:57

exactly later and I think with littles and pet play like you know the enthusiasm

39:04

that littles have when they're in head space really pumps up you know pups and other animals because

39:10

who doesn't want to like when when you've got a little like squeeing with joy because they through

39:15

the ball and you brought the ball back and they're just gonna keep doing it over and over again because

39:18

they can't be happier I mean as a as a I can't imagine as a pup that just has got to be feeling so

39:25

good and so much fun so yeah it's just I don't know I think it's a beautiful thing it sort of happened

39:30

organically in in the munch that we host where pups started coming to and yeah now it I would say it's

39:37

easily 50-50 and a lot of times just that outside reinforcement helps your head space so much

39:46

because you could be a puppy or a kitty and be doing your thing and that's all well and good but

39:53

went a little kind of stumbles along and starts to pet the little puppy or whatever it is I feel like

39:59

both of them get a reinforcement to their their role in that I definitely have to agree with that

40:07

and I think it's two outside communities you know like on the fringe of vdsm that can come together

40:14

and accept each other wholeheartedly and without judgment and that just feels amazing too

40:19

I don't know if I'd say on the fringe but maybe not as understood as as other folks

40:28

that's a kind of way of putting it fair yeah so speaking of roles normally the big is the dominant

40:38

the submissive is the little but that's not a hard and fast story um just because the normal family

40:45

structure is what is kind of based around doesn't mean that people kind of flip that on on the side

40:53

and I always go to the Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory movies where

40:59

varuka salt is very much in control and demanding and her father is

41:06

trying to please her trying to try and just to do whatever she wants in order for it to be okay

41:18

and it can go back and forth folks can switch or else it can be more of a service caregiver

41:27

with the little being in charge I want some ice cream great we're gonna do that

41:33

very cool so how does one make the most out of their age play having having other

41:43

other age players around really amplifies that headspace so much you've also got to look

41:50

into yourself and see what what you do enjoy and kind of focus there a lot of times people

41:59

I knew a guy back in Chicago you know one weekend a month was his little weekend and

42:06

he would turn off his phone he'd lock his doors and he'd put a diaper on and all weekend he'd just

42:14

eat cereal and watch cartoons and that's perfectly legitimate as well but finding

42:20

what really feeds you is is so very important I always think it's really interesting because we have

42:30

a lady that comes in on our age play fun days and and does a science class basically like a little

42:38

experiment or a demo or something like that we put Mentos and Coke one time or something like that

42:46

and Brandy was really shocked that she enjoyed it so much and adipped her so far down in the headspace

42:54

so trying different things and seeing how that impacts your headspace and kind of adjusting from

43:01

there I think is really valuable so I'm hearing you have a Bill Knight role player pretty much

43:09

she she really enjoys doing that and being educational as well as seeing the kind of

43:17

exuberance that that folks have towards it I mean she's she's amazing and she is so accepting and

43:28

loving with the age play community she really like we can count on her I don't think there's been an

43:34

age play day Paul that we've done where she hasn't been there I believe you're right and she just

43:40

she just she just tries so hard and gives so much and these are like legit science experiments that

43:47

you would do in school and it's just it is amazing as an adult to just lower that

43:55

mind set down and just go back into that I'm learning something kind of mindset and wow it was

44:02

it was amazing for me because I I don't think I've ever felt as little and as regressed as I did

44:07

in her class and we are playing with bubbles and making like prisons out of bubbles it was so freaking

44:13

cool um and yeah it was so it was so amazing and I just it's yeah I mean if people really want to

44:24

get into age play and really want to experience it um community is is my um suggestion find

44:31

find community find people who are like you and explore that way

44:36

I mean the first time little bit went all the way in the little head space was when there were other

44:45

little surrounding it was in St. Louis at one of the two big events I don't remember which one

44:49

spank's giving okay spank's giving and there were shrinky dinks and coloring and she just went

44:56

full all in coloring the shrinky dinks and wow yours looks pretty type stuff was easier to just kind

45:04

of you know slip into that a little bit more granted like I could feel myself not going into

45:10

like it was there but I could feel where my limit of little was yeah I totally understand

45:19

that I get I get much more little when I color and when I'm around other little coloring it kind of

45:25

just lets me drift off but it only goes so far down mm-hmm yeah I agree yeah because even there was

45:35

even for me there was a few little so that I was like oh no that's way too far for me like just

45:42

on some aspect of my brain wave and thought pattern okay I don't want to go that far down

45:49

but I can stay where I'm at and be comfortable and interact with you know some of the other

45:54

little who were farther down little compared to me but I was like okay after a while I'm like

46:01

I need to move up to other little that are closer to where my age ranges because I mean

46:09

I identify as a non-specific age and I just want to shout out and say that's really okay you don't

46:18

need to have you or anyone doesn't need to have a particular age and several people also have

46:24

different ages that they play and that's perfectly legitimate as well I always tell people don't

46:31

don't focus so much on picking out a number as much as looking at the activities that you enjoy

46:41

oh I like that I really like that that that that is definitely some useful information when

46:47

conversing because if I say oh well I'm a four-year-old that that might take some of the stuff

46:53

that you really enjoy and kind of put it in the back seat and I guess we should say that like

47:01

that your age is just a guideline and you can expand beyond that so

47:10

of course so age play is one of those things that's hard to do 24/7 you can't stay in your crib 24/7

47:20

unless your daddy is full on sugar daddy how can you bring that into the day though

47:25

at least for me I think it's a lot of it involves kind of checking in and that

47:36

building those habits or those rituals that drop people in the headspace just for a minute

47:42

and Brandy has a professional job but sometimes she can take a second to look out at her phone

47:49

and I imagine that she drops into a little bit of that role when she's replying to a text

47:56

other things other simple things to kind of build it in are

48:02

even just like opening the door for the other person or holding hands when you're walking across the

48:09

street or things that are kind of little and protective but don't don't drop you so much into that

48:19

headspace even like a good night kiss as well can can kind of and some people enjoy being tucked in as

48:27

well can foster that sense of of relationship throughout the day and I think it's important to remember

48:36

that you do have to put the headspace aside at some points I don't think it's healthy to

48:43

to want to be in headspace 24 hours a day seven days a week you know because you've got to deal with

48:49

stuff right you got to you got to deal with the adult stuff that is in front of you so I think it's

48:56

important to recognize that it's not it's not good to just want to be a child all the time

49:05

however I think Paul's right with like little tiny rituals that you can do throughout the day

49:11

that really connect to those sort of things I know we do he if he and I are going somewhere

49:19

even if it's just grocery shopping he'll buckle me into the car and then give me a forehead kiss

49:26

and that's just a nice little way to remind me and him that we have that dynamic or when I'm

49:34

holding his hand to like just hold his last two fingers and not his entire hand that really makes

49:38

me feel small in the moment I'm trying to think of what else we do it's so natural at this point

49:47

sometimes it's hard to remember but I think I think the main thing that we're really getting here is

49:54

that balance and and you're right you we can't stay in the crib or stay in headspace 24/7 and that's

50:02

not necessarily productive or maybe even healthy I don't know but being able to find segments of time

50:13

where we can delve into that headspace is really good I want to live my life with Brandy and sometimes

50:21

that's her as an adult and sometimes that's her and her age play headspace and at at the end of the day

50:30

I I love her when she's being normal and when she's in headspace and we have a good life and get

50:39

things done and have enjoyable things but it's not all the headspace I sometimes need the person

50:48

behind that as well sure I mean as I'm listening to your ways how to do it 24/7 what popped into my

50:58

head is the guys on Big Bang Theory they always have their action figures around them they have

51:04

the comic book t-shirts that would do it for me to have those reminders throughout the day I'm not sure

51:12

that's what they were going for but I would say that would work yeah absolutely I mean I have a

51:16

squish mellow up on my desk at work so it's it's little reminders like that but just kind of

51:22

keep you there I've cultivated my my room to be my middle's dream room you know it's it's

51:32

gothian spooky in every way so little things like that that just kind of help you remember

51:37

that you have this freedom of expression yeah call them call them collectibles your mom want

51:46

that and I on it exactly yeah exactly so a question I've heard before and I've never really heard a

51:58

great answer I've heard okay answers to it persons doing age play they like it they enjoy it

52:05

but they have kids and the kids are slowly becoming the age that this person age plays as and that

52:12

creeps them out how would you suggest dealing with that so I've I've heard a lot of people that come

52:19

into this come into this point and a lot of people end up taking a break from the age play in focusing

52:27

on other roles once again it's very individualistic so people if they are able to tilt away from that

52:41

particular range or those particular activities that their kids are hitting maybe that would be

52:48

another another way to go about maintaining that age play relationship without having it being

52:58

too burdensome and I talk about caregiver fatigue or caregiver burnout and awful lot and

53:07

if if I'm busy diapering my little and all of a sudden our kids are hitting that diaper age

53:14

maybe I don't want to do that thing so much and really exploring together and finding other

53:24

satisfactory experiences maybe maybe it's just going to be cuddling um

53:33

and or holding each other or whatever it happens to be keeping that that age play relationship

53:43

as productive and fun instead of just another thing that the caregiver may need to do or having

53:51

it kind of squick them out might be the way to go very good make sense you've talked a couple of times

54:05

about regression can you clarify and kind of explain what you mean by

54:15

the regression um when we talk about regression it's it's sometimes

54:21

in a non-kink sense it's a defense mechanism that people go back to an earlier age and

54:32

for a little bit of comfort for a little bit of reassurance um when we talk about age play regression

54:40

people go back in their mind to that earlier time and kind of feel the same way and Brandy

54:50

talked about that she felt kind of that regression hit her when they were doing that bubble science

54:57

experiment so it's not that though they're taking on a different role or they're not coming up with

55:06

a character they're actually kind of stepping back in their own timeline if that makes sense

55:13

Brandy what did it feel like when when you did do that regression um it was really

55:21

it was really calming because it as somebody whose brain is going a hundred miles an hour

55:30

and a hundred different directions I was really able to feel like I had regressed to that age where

55:37

I was able to focus and pay attention um really take in everything that happened it felt really um

55:45

single-minded I was doing one task that was it I was there I was present in my body I was present

55:56

in the moment and there wasn't outside influences I wasn't wondering you know how much laundry do

56:03

I have to put away or you know did we scoop the kitty litter boxes this week um it was really just

56:10

it was a it was a really easy way to just let go and be be right there and be present and

56:18

enjoy what I was doing there was a feeling of innocence um I really felt

56:26

like my childhood self I felt small I felt there was you know there was that I was sitting on a chair

56:34

the the instructor was standing up so there was you know this exchange of power in the sense that

56:41

they were instructing me on how to do something um and it was just really pure and

56:47

lighthearted and innocent and really comforting

56:52

and I think that that comfort or that feeling of safety is is sometimes why people regress backwards

57:02

because they they desire that

57:04

I can't understand that um it had the conversation before with somebody in a class that they were

57:16

saying that you know any time that they are stressed they always age regress um and people have

57:25

chatted with them about you know not being able to negotiate with them because they're regressing

57:32

any thoughts or anything on that at least for me I never wanted to go

57:40

negotiate with someone who is in an altered state of consciousness which is essentially what

57:46

what regression is um just like I wouldn't want to try to negotiate with somebody who was who was drunk

57:54

I want people to be in the here and now be present and being able to make adult decisions

58:02

do you want to do this is this okay is that not okay um so really making sure that people

58:10

are in a normal headspace and that there is not some sort of power dynamic or an imbalance in place

58:19

while doing that negotiating is I think really important if if you are doing something with someone

58:29

and they seem to hit in altered headspace or that that maybe folks didn't expect I would

58:38

at least for myself be be pretty cautious about what's going on um just because

58:45

that altered headspace changes an awful lot and I just want to really be considerate of people

58:53

doing stuff that they want to do in our comfortable with understand thank you

59:04

I am going to guess here that the expert witness in front of the Texas Supreme Court had

59:11

something to do with custody um no actually from from my understanding the

59:19

the case was about

59:23

representing yourself as a minor and in some sort of online interactions and how that

59:34

that was illegal down in Texas and they were trying to they were trying to say that you know the

59:42

the individual is not a minor in the circumstance but age play is is kind of different than that

59:50

Gotcha interesting

59:55

I mean I've heard some horror stories about custody and age play so that's why I assumed that

1:00:04

while I've heard some horror stories I came very close to living my own with my ex but

1:00:10

yeah if you're into age play don't let your ex know about it it would be my advice

1:00:18

because while we know better you don't want to know what the judge thinks right and a lot of times

1:00:26

people especially in a charged personal situation like that really really make it something

1:00:33

that it's not absolutely so tell us a little bit about the book so it was about it was about 10

1:00:47

years ago now that I wrote the age play from diapers to diplomas book which largely focused on

1:00:53

on the little's part and a lot of people have told me that that has really helped them in off a lot

1:01:02

but one thing that's really kind of been neglected in a lot of a lot of books or a lot of media is

1:01:12

is how to go about doing it as a caregiver and a lot of times people kind of

1:01:20

fumble and try things or don't realize that there's other options or have maybe misconceptions about

1:01:29

what that caregiver role is and I was trying to collect different practices kind of taking a look at

1:01:39

you know what wouldn't negotiation look like as a caregiver what what do people get out of being

1:01:45

a caregiver what can you do with your non-caregiver partner and kind of provide a road map for people

1:01:54

who are maybe a little bit uncertain or maybe the folks that are that their partners or someone else

1:02:01

comes up to them and says you know you you are a daddy and then they're kind of like really uncertain

1:02:07

where to go with that so this is kind of just trying to help folks find that headspace find that

1:02:17

part of themselves and maybe open it up for people more people to explore that that caregiver headspace

1:02:24

gotcha but the book that's already in print is called age played from diapers to diplomas

1:02:33

and I will throw Amazon link to that in the show notes before we jump into the part of the show

1:02:40

that we like to call inside the kinkster studio is there anything else you would like to share

1:02:45

about age play I want to I just wanted to say that a lot of times there is a big a big divide in the

1:02:54

age play community about folks that are sexual age players versus non-sexual age players and I

1:03:02

always want to say that you know it isn't such a cut and dried or either one or the other but a

1:03:09

lot of times it is on that spectrum and maybe folks that consider themselves non-sexual age players

1:03:16

may have something in there and I want to say that that they're both really legitimate views to take

1:03:25

and I kind of come from a radically inclusive umbrella where I don't want folks dividing

1:03:33

themselves out and dividing the age play community based on sexual versus non-sexual I think we are so

1:03:39

much stronger if we all come together and realize that we do have these differences sometimes

1:03:45

yeah I'm just gonna echo what Paul said and just say that you know the age play community is

1:03:56

definitely better together and stronger together and just to reiterate that if you're struggling

1:04:05

with accepting yourself as an age player or accepting yourself as a caregiver to seek out other

1:04:12

people and talk to other people don't don't don't let yourself be alone with that look for community

1:04:21

it will most of the time help and and give you some confidence to be able to to really dive down

1:04:28

this path which can be incredibly helpful and and just really loving and caring

1:04:33

excellent I actually do have one more question do you ever hear about anybody age playing older

1:04:44

so very interestingly I I feel like it's incredibly rare but some people do do it and I know that when

1:04:54

I was writing the age play book I talked to a guy who did geriatric age play and he would

1:05:02

still wear a diaper because that's what some older folks do and actually a lot of the elements of

1:05:10

like nursing home or skilled nursing care really kind of look very similar to that adult baby model as well

1:05:19

I would argue that in the caregiver frame of reference a lot of people do

1:05:27

play older than they then they actually are so I know that back when I was in my 20s and feeling

1:05:37

like a daddy I kind of projected myself out to be older there as well

1:05:41

I mean I had heard about it theoretically I have not heard about anybody specifically doing it

1:05:50

other than myself I guess because mine is very specific I do as Anna Claus role play I'm playing older

1:05:56

I only break it out for about a month a year but there you go that's fun that's really cool I imagine

1:06:06

okay so moving to the part of the show we call inside the kinkster studio this is where we get to know

1:06:11

you a little bit better are you a game for that total 100% okay what is your favorite toy in your toy bag

1:06:24

I'm gonna let Brandy start

1:06:34

this has nothing to do with the age play but I'm just recently we've gotten into staples so the staple gun

1:06:40

nice and I would say for me I have a pair of of claws which are like kind of leather gauntlets with

1:06:50

with three or four fake maybe inch or two claws that come out and they're wonderful for

1:06:57

scratching an abrasion play nice

1:07:02

yeah it's gonna say any of these questions are not directly related to age play this is just in general

1:07:08

cool so yeah so you don't have to focus on age play this is just focusing in general on anything

1:07:15

okay what has been your biggest failure in kink and what did you learn from it

1:07:20

hmm that's a tough question I would have to say that especially when you're playing with people

1:07:32

that you don't know be very clear and very specific about what is to go on and what is not to go on

1:07:43

and definitely if you don't feel comfortable or you are people pleasing by accepting a scene

1:07:54

it's probably wise or not to do it then to do it because when I was much younger I was

1:08:01

even more people pleasing than I am now so I'm gonna say that my biggest failure probably was at the

1:08:11

very beginning of my journey jumping into a very strict DS dynamic before I explored

1:08:20

everything that kink had to offer and just assuming that I was a submissive because I had submissive

1:08:28

tendencies I looking back I wish I had given myself the grace to be able to pause that and

1:08:36

you know taste like the kink buffet of life and just try a little bit to really find out who I was

1:08:45

rather than pigeon-holing myself into a role because that's what it seems like I wanted

1:08:54

what three words describe your play oh I want to say edge play

1:09:05

is that that kind of one word or am I kind of the two words are we getting technical

1:09:12

no that's one word okay okay okay that is one okay edgy hard

1:09:23

um and playful and I would say caring taboo and close

1:09:34

nice what are your catch phrases

1:09:48

oh this is a good one I got this Paul okay he will say oh baby cakes and I'll say oh daddy muffin

1:09:58

or he'll say oh baby doll and I'll say oh daddy gijou um and we just kind of he'll say one word

1:10:07

and I'll pick the opposite but for a big and that's that's kind of the call and response that

1:10:15

that kind of builds a ritual that brings us closer because that's that's entirely something

1:10:22

that is just us what is something that people would be surprised to know about you that you're willing to share of course

1:10:36

I I would guess that people would kind of be surprised that I really have an interest in gardening

1:10:44

okay that's a different type of caretaking he cut out I didn't hear what he said what did he say gardening

1:10:56

gardening yes the plants don't talk back very much so that's really possible

1:11:01

I would say that um I probably come across as somebody who has uh no fux to give attitude

1:11:14

um but deep down I have all the fux to give and I care really really deeply um and I'm always

1:11:21

always questioning if I'm doing enough or if I'm doing enough for the community

1:11:25

well secrets out now all right all right my favorite question which favorite curse word

1:11:38

fuck I would also have to go with fuck and it's very interesting because I didn't I didn't start

1:11:47

swearing as much until I became a therapist I mean I'm so thankful he said a daddy and not I met

1:11:57

Brandy I'm counting that as a win for me so last question and my favorite question to ask

1:12:09

if you had to have sex with one muppet which muppet would it be and why oh I I know my answer

1:12:18

immediately so I'm gonna go animal of course um because he's a drummer I am tempted to say

1:12:29

miss Piggy because I love Pig Play but I think I'm gonna actually go with the the very the the

1:12:36

lady from the rock band uh because Janice because she has like wonderful eyelashes

1:12:46

awesome great answers okay well that about does it for today I want to thank you for being on our show

1:12:55

yes thank you and talking about age play for listeners upcoming synagogue classes in person and

1:13:02

virtual are leave your mark and body drumming and electro play find all the details on that on our website

1:13:14

um but that is it that's our show say goodnight little bit goodnight little bit