0:00

So the King's new lemonade lineup

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is here. Name and a lemonade

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The Smoothie King Way try strawberry.

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Guava Lemonade ask refresher over

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ice a power up in

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it can energize, or a

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blueberry lemonade smoothie lead it

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up being. This. Made

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with real fruit. Real juice for

0:21

a real sipping good summer. Yeah

0:23

yeah, Data is no Smoothie Kings

0:25

New lemonade lineup of for a

0:27

limited time. Who. Stars Day.

0:30

Was. A spirit causing all this chaos.

0:32

Or. Was it someone much closer?

0:35

This. Week's episode is the South

0:37

Shields Poltergeist. Dread

0:48

probably. Be

0:52

both men know where.

0:55

It's soothing to mobile

0:57

which is. Hopeless.

0:59

you're doing good com increased

1:01

if you could. You'd rather

1:03

just listen to. While.

1:15

Thanks to we've had a think

1:18

two or three people sent us

1:20

into the database, so thank you!

1:22

As always, Well, it's allegedly one

1:24

of the most compelling arguments. Will.

1:27

See wallet save it for like I would.

1:29

Only thing I got some notes we get some

1:31

notes along the way for. so what do

1:33

we think about it? Until then? Walla Walla

1:35

Regalia with this tale of para normality. it's I

1:37

liked when we cover paranormal cases like more when

1:40

we get to go to places so this

1:42

is all well and good because it like

1:44

all happened at one instance in there's a book

1:46

about it will talk about but I like

1:48

are when we get to travel the world

1:50

and see freaky things up close. that's what I

1:52

mean it down to England is what you're

1:54

saying of say and we need to go

1:56

to time. side and which are may not

1:58

be saying that correctly in my

2:01

Dick Van Dyke accent. Tyneside.

2:03

Well, we wanna go to England anyway, so if there's

2:06

a ghostly reason, I'm sure this one ain't the

2:08

only one. Oh, I imagine there's a

2:11

multitude of ghosty places to visit over there. I'm

2:13

trying to get to Cock Lane. I hear that's

2:15

pretty haunted. That's like one that people have sent

2:17

in as well as the ghost of Cock Lane.

2:19

That's where you're trying to go to it,

2:22

because it's haunted. Aren't I only? Are

2:24

you trying to get a picture with

2:26

a sign that says, Cock,

2:28

I survived Cock Lane. You want that too,

2:30

sir? Yeah, I took a ride down Cock

2:32

Lane, maybe someday, but we're not talking about

2:34

Cock Lane today. We're talking about South

2:36

Shields, which we probably won't get to this summer.

2:38

We're traveling this summer, but we're not traveling to Jollielle,

2:41

England. I wish we were taking it. I

2:43

would love to go to England right

2:45

now. I imagine it's cool. I

2:48

hope, yeah. It depends on where you're

2:50

at. Probably also rainy, which we don't need anymore

2:52

of, but I just walked outside to let the

2:54

dog out, and my

2:56

God. When it rains for

2:58

two weeks straight, and then the sun comes

3:00

out, it's like you're just in

3:02

a sauna. You parachute for a run, and you

3:04

know, when one goes for a run, you get

3:06

a little sweaty glistening. I was like, did it

3:09

rain while you were gone? He's like, no,

3:11

it's just damp outside. It's like you're just

3:13

running through mush. I

3:16

don't know how he does it. It's

3:18

not for me, but we

3:20

would love to see you at

3:22

someplace, not England this time, but

3:25

someplace in the next few weeks,

3:27

because we're on tour right now, and we're

3:30

just in a few days going out for

3:32

the second leg. Yeah, we can't

3:35

believe it. We're gonna be in Raleigh and

3:37

Charlotte. Charlotte, North Carolina on the 11th, and

3:39

Raleigh on June 12th. So by one week

3:41

from today, when you're hearing this,

3:43

we will be in Charlotte, North Carolina, talking

3:46

about full moon energy. That's all

3:48

about the darker side of the moon, what it

3:50

does to us, what lurks up there, all the

3:52

weird stuff that not only that the Apollo guys

3:54

saw when they were on the moon, but what

3:56

they said when they came back, which was wild,

3:59

and it's not necessary. you're ever going to hear on

4:01

the podcast so you got to come to see us

4:03

live. Where else are we going besides North Carolina? We're

4:06

going to Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toronto,

4:08

Kansas City, Oklahoma City, San

4:11

Diego, Phoenix, Las Vegas, and

4:13

Dallas for details on everything

4:16

including dates, times, venues, and

4:18

more. You can go to

4:20

sinisterhood.com/live shows. When you said

4:23

Dallas, it reminded me that our Dallas live show,

4:25

I have made some hefty promises of what I'm

4:27

going to be wearing if you did not come

4:29

to our last live. Oh my God, I forgot

4:31

about this. We designed a whole

4:33

entire wrestler outfit for me. So

4:35

apparently there's a, we'll have

4:37

to get Paris to pull the clip because I'm

4:39

aware of there's a cape, but it's also a

4:41

denim vest. And then I have to get crutes.

4:43

And what has happened is those are extremely hard

4:45

to get now. They're like Margaritaville

4:48

first run hard to get crutes

4:50

now. So I'm going to have to get some

4:52

secondhand crutes or some collector crutes. I'm

4:54

going to have to pay high top dollar,

4:56

but the cowboy boot Crocs, I promised I

4:58

would wear and I don't break a promise.

5:00

So get your tickets to the Dallas show.

5:02

Cause it's going to be the last time we perform full

5:04

moon energy before we create a whole new show. And

5:07

also I'm going to wear my wrestler outfit

5:09

probably the last time that Heather's

5:13

costume is what I'm going to call it.

5:16

We'll be more. Or do I just start?

5:18

I lean in and start wearing denim vest

5:20

capes. Maybe we'll figure it out, but I'm

5:22

excited. I'm looking forward to that. Cause I

5:25

like, I like a hometown show. You know,

5:27

things get always wacky on a hometown show,

5:29

but we're not home

5:31

this week. We're in England and some, a

5:34

show is going on in a home though,

5:36

here in England because it is, I

5:39

don't, couldn't live like this. But you have a

5:41

toddler. You can tell us. I'm not if any

5:43

of this is like toddler behavior, the whole thing

5:45

is just having shit chunked at

5:47

your head and and

5:49

toys dumped out of dresser drawers and

5:51

stuff misplaced and you can't find stuff.

5:53

That's just living with children. Yeah. I

5:55

was going to say, Christie has complained

5:57

about a lot of these things. Maybe.

6:00

She has a poltergeist. I have a...

6:02

I chalk it up to a three-year-old and

6:04

a six-year-old. Maybe this whole time it's been

6:06

a poltergeist. It has been. And the door's

6:09

on me. Well, I'm Christy. I'm Heather. And

6:12

let's get into it. On

6:15

June 19, 2006,

6:18

Darren W. Ritsen received a tap on his

6:20

shoulder at work. His coworker,

6:22

Leslie, was soliciting his help. My

6:25

friend's daughter's got a ghost. Darren,

6:28

who investigated the paranormal in his

6:30

spare time, was interested. Leslie

6:32

explained how her friend's daughter was terrified

6:35

to stay in her house anymore as

6:37

it was haunted. The young woman was

6:39

at her wits' end because

6:42

of all the ghostly goings-on.

6:45

Darren was then introduced to

6:47

Leslie's friend, June Peterworth. Coincidentally,

6:50

Darren knew June from their school

6:52

days back in Jarrow, their hometown

6:54

in South Tyneside, England. June

6:57

was relieved to have someone trustworthy

6:59

to help her daughter, a young

7:01

woman in her twenties called Mary

7:03

Ann in Darren's book, The South

7:05

Shields Poltergeist. We

7:07

love that your friend happens to work with

7:09

a paranormal investigator. That's so convenient that you're

7:11

like, there's a fucking ghost everywhere. It's like, let

7:14

me call the guy at work. I imagine

7:16

that everyone that works with Darren knows that

7:18

he is an investigator. I think usually-

7:20

Yeah, you probably cannot. Yeah. I

7:24

feel like this is something that he probably leads

7:26

with. I mean, his

7:29

passion and what he wants to

7:32

do is full-time paranormal investigation. But

7:34

like so many of us, sometimes

7:37

we got to have a side hustle to keep the

7:39

bills paid. Exactly. And

7:41

luckily, you know sometimes the cases appear that bring themselves

7:43

to you. But I thought it was interesting in the

7:45

book that he's like, I roll in and I'm like,

7:47

hey, I know you. The supposedly haunted

7:50

house located at 42 Lock

7:52

Street in South Tyneside was

7:55

an ordinary two-bedroom Paris house

7:57

on the outskirts of a modern estate built

7:59

in the United States. the 1970s. Mary

8:02

Ann Petterworth lived there with her

8:04

boyfriend, Mark Carlson, and Mary Ann's

8:06

three-year-old son, Robert. The

8:09

living room, kitchen, and dining room were

8:11

all downstairs along with the bathroom. Both

8:14

the main bedroom where Mark and Mary Ann slept

8:16

and Robert's bedroom were up a single

8:18

flight of stairs. June

8:21

explained to Darren how Things

8:23

have escalated in the past couple of weeks.

8:26

Earlier in the year, Mary Ann

8:28

had experienced strange events like a

8:30

shower mysteriously turning on and bumps

8:32

and thuds when no one was

8:34

around to cause them. Her son

8:36

had also claimed he saw and

8:38

talked to a lady.

8:40

But recent events scared

8:43

Mary Ann, like when an

8:45

unknown force tossed a cup from a

8:47

workspace into a bin next to her

8:49

and her dad. Twice. Well,

8:52

if the kids say they see a lady in

8:54

their room, that's concerning to me. It's like, what

8:56

is there? Is it a neighbor? Who's walking here?

8:59

I would want to get to the bottom

9:01

of that. Are you having some dreams? Are

9:04

you just a wild imagination? Is

9:06

there someone? We got a Frogger

9:08

situation. Definitely want to get

9:11

to the bottom of that. Now, I'm not

9:13

going to be upset if someone

9:15

passes something in the trash can for

9:17

me. I'll take any

9:19

help I can get with with cleaning. So

9:21

that I'm okay with the

9:23

shower. You know, nobody

9:25

wants somebody in the shower with them that

9:27

they can't see. I want to know, you know, you

9:30

want to be in there alone, most likely unless

9:33

you call for it. Truly, if the shower turns

9:35

on on its own, though, and I come in

9:37

and someone has sprayed some like soap scum remover,

9:39

and they're just steaming it for me to like

9:41

let the soap scum drain off. Again, thank you

9:43

do that. Thank you, ghost. Why can't we we

9:45

need to get the poltergeist to just I'm going

9:47

to make a list of chores. I'm going to

9:49

go to bed. You knock those out while I'm

9:51

out. Yeah, you get your activity in. We both

9:53

win. I would love that. More

9:56

disturbingly, Robert began speaking of

9:59

a playmate. A young boy called

10:01

Sam or Sammy, who the child spoke to

10:03

and played with in his room. When

10:06

they put the youngster to bed one

10:08

night while sitting downstairs watching TV, Mark

10:10

and Marianne claimed they heard a voice

10:12

on the baby monitor warn that Robert

10:14

was going to fall out of bed.

10:18

The disembodied voice seemed to speak

10:20

directly to the child, saying, Robert,

10:22

you're going to fall out of bed. Baby

10:26

monitors scare the shit out of me. Baby

10:28

monitors, in the beginning,

10:30

they kind of creep me out, but now I just

10:33

find them funny because you get to hear and see

10:35

things that you otherwise wouldn't, that's

10:37

cute and endearing. But people

10:40

like to claim that they have a lot of paranormal

10:42

things going on on a baby monitor.

10:46

Now I would say, I don't think it does

10:48

much good to tell a sleeping kid, hey buddy,

10:50

you're about to fall out of bed. Just

10:53

go over there and scooch him

10:55

back over or say to the parents,

10:57

hey, your kiddo is about to fall out of

10:59

bed. You might want to come up here and

11:01

get him. Come upstairs. It's like,

11:03

this isn't helpful at all. Darren

11:07

initially contacted Marianne and Mark on

11:09

June 19, 2006, via phone. He'd

11:13

instructed the couple to keep an event

11:15

diary to help keep track

11:17

of the entity's activity. The

11:20

couple agreed. In the ensuing

11:22

weeks, things got worse, prompting Mark and

11:24

Marianne to call in a priest. However,

11:27

just days after the priest's blessing,

11:29

furniture was being pushed around and

11:32

objects were being launched at both

11:34

Mark and Marianne. Darren

11:36

offered to visit the house on July 17, 2006, bringing

11:38

along a fellow paranormal researcher,

11:43

Michael J. Halliwell. The

11:45

couple welcomed the men's help. This

11:48

is just living in my house every

11:50

day. Furniture being moved around,

11:52

stuff getting tossed in my head. So

11:56

far, zero ghostly activity. This is

11:58

just having children. It's

12:00

typically a three-year-old living in your

12:02

house. The amount of times I walk

12:05

into a room and I'm like, why

12:07

is the end table turned upside down?

12:09

Or why is this chair pushed across?

12:12

It's constant rearranging. You've

12:14

had, he jumped a toy at your head when

12:16

you weren't looking. It was metal. I was just,

12:19

Ella was talking to me about spear fingers

12:21

in the book about the National Park cryptids.

12:23

And then I just like, bonk. I was

12:25

like, oh, my skull. And it was metal

12:28

hitting my skull. I will

12:30

say I did not immediately go, your house

12:32

is on it. I was like, I bet

12:34

it's some tiny hands. We're responsible and not

12:36

intentional. It's fun to throw things. I'll concede

12:38

that. I love to throw shit. It's just

12:40

like, you know, you're three. You don't really

12:42

like realize like being hit in head. You

12:44

know, you're just throwing and having fun. Oh, he

12:46

knows. He knows. He's aware

12:48

that he's not supposed to do it. No,

12:51

it doesn't. Well,

12:53

he was kind of on the other side of the couch and sort

12:55

of, honestly, I was impressed that the air that it got, that it

12:57

got like a huge arc. Oh, he's got an arm on him. He

13:00

healed it, man. I'm

13:03

redirect to baseball. Every day I'm like,

13:05

it was another day I didn't

13:07

get my nose broken. It's a good day. Score.

13:10

Absolutely score. Knock on wood.

13:15

As the two researchers listened to Mark

13:18

and Marianne's story at the house, they

13:20

assessed the couple for signs of possible

13:22

fraud. In their book, Darren

13:24

and Mike described the pair as friendly,

13:27

pleasant, and open, with Mark being

13:29

the quieter of the two. Marianne

13:32

referenced her log and detailed

13:34

what the investigators classified as

13:36

poltergeist-like events over the prior

13:38

weeks. In the time

13:40

she had kept the log, Marianne had

13:42

been poked in the back while ascending

13:44

the stairs, Robert's toy rocking horse had

13:46

been hung by its reins off the

13:48

ceiling, and the small table and chair

13:50

was continuously moved from his room to the

13:52

top of the stairs, arranged in a

13:54

way that Robert could not have done. Similarly,

13:58

furniture in his room was moved. while

14:00

no one was home, including against the

14:02

door from the inside. Most

14:05

disturbingly, on July 13th, a

14:07

large tan stuffed rabbit toy was

14:10

found sitting in a child's chair

14:12

at the top of the stairs

14:14

with a razor blade wedged near

14:16

its paw." The

14:20

rabbit is a stuffy to clarify this

14:22

large tan rabbit. It's got paws like

14:24

this popel that I'm holding, which if

14:26

you're on YouTube or our Patreon ad

14:28

free, you can see. And so when

14:30

they kept on saying it was in

14:32

the book, I believe the phrase was

14:34

it was holding a knife. I

14:36

was like, did the poltergeist like glue

14:38

it? Did it tape it? I guess

14:41

it was wedged, but they can, the

14:43

use of, I'm a lawyer, I'm picky

14:45

about like, was it holding, holding a

14:47

knife or was it near

14:49

a knife next to the thing? So I'm going to

14:51

keep an eye out for this popel. If I come in one day

14:53

and it looks like it's ready to shiv me, I'll

14:56

know that some shit's going down in the studio, but

14:58

the picture of the rabbit. The whole

15:01

thing is so hard for me to

15:03

buy. And this is one of the

15:05

more ridiculous things that

15:07

happens in this story, because

15:10

it looks so staged

15:13

and call

15:16

me a skeptic. That's fine.

15:18

But we got a lot of suppies in this

15:21

house. And I've never seen any of them with

15:23

any kind of knives or razor blades. And

15:26

it just seems like something so out

15:28

of a horror movie, like a classic

15:30

trope, that they

15:34

dozz protest too much, in my

15:36

opinion, the use of there's a

15:38

lot of it's been documented.

15:40

And I'm like, certainly I can send you a

15:43

picture of a popel holding a knife. That does

15:45

not mean that the popel appeared holding a knife.

15:47

And yes, the exact language, I want to make

15:49

sure I wasn't misquoting. But in the book, there's

15:51

a photograph of the stuffed rabbit in the chair.

15:53

And it says, quote, with a box cutter blade

15:56

in its left hand. So well,

15:58

first of all, rabbit stone. have

16:00

hands. So we can, right

16:02

there, there's a fallacy. It could

16:04

be in his paw, but it

16:06

can't hold it because it's made

16:08

of cloth. It can't like wrap

16:10

it. It doesn't have, you know what I'm

16:13

saying? Unless you Velcro glued it to its

16:15

paw. It's not holding anything. It's just resting

16:17

on it. Yeah. That's the one

16:19

that I was like, I don't think it's

16:21

holding. And they also said there has been

16:24

a disturbing theatrical arrangement found in Robert's room.

16:26

And it is the

16:28

photo I sent you earlier where it is a

16:30

different smaller rabbit, balancing precariously

16:32

a knife and the blade of the

16:34

knife is balancing across the throat of

16:36

the stuffed ducky. And it's anyway,

16:39

the rabbit's beef with the duck.

16:45

One of the more alarming

16:47

parts of this whole thing to me is there's

16:49

a three year old kid that you shouldn't be

16:52

nice around. He's involved in all of this. And

16:56

someone appears to be taking his

16:59

stuffed animals and putting butcher

17:01

knives with them. Where's Robert

17:03

during all of this? I'm assuming not

17:06

near these things, but you know, I mean,

17:08

I guess you got to get it out for

17:10

the photo op and then hopefully you put it

17:13

back before he's like, mommy, daddy, I should

17:15

play with my rabbit. And they're like, well, it's

17:17

holding a butcher knife right now, Robert, but go

17:20

ahead. I call him my

17:22

stabby rabbit and this is stabby

17:24

rabbit, stabby rabbit. Well, and also the

17:26

rabbit and daddy ducky, daddy ducky

17:28

and stabby rabbit. Well, the hanging the

17:30

horse hanging from the ceiling as well,

17:33

that had apparently been witnessed by

17:35

Marion's brother Ian and he had walked

17:37

in and had been very disturbed by

17:39

it. But also at other points, the

17:42

investigators just mentioned that Ian was kind of thought

17:44

things were funny and was joking around. And as

17:46

they were at all walk together up the stairs

17:48

to go and see, like, for instance, allegedly something

17:50

happened in Robert's room, he would like goose mark,

17:52

like, you know, pinch him on the back and

17:54

be like, Oh, what was that? Was that a

17:56

pole? So then you have someone that Oh, Oh,

18:00

part of the witness list, but

18:02

who also admittedly engaged

18:04

in, or, you know,

18:06

witnesses shenanigans and then is engaging in shenanigans

18:09

kind of in front of the investigator. So

18:12

it's always the investigation a bit, I

18:14

would think it would, I

18:16

would say, Ian, you need to leave buddy if

18:18

you, if you're not going to be part of

18:20

the solution, then you're part of the problem. It

18:24

also makes

18:26

me question, like, is

18:28

this kind of telling behavior that he

18:31

maybe knows there's nothing to be really

18:33

scared of. So he's just kind of

18:35

playing along with it. Yeah. Like, why do

18:37

you think it's funny that there's a stabby-rabby on

18:39

the loose where your nephew lives? The

18:43

couple stayed in contact with Mike

18:46

and Darren. However, when the investigators

18:48

were gone, the activity intensified. Large

18:51

pieces of furniture in Robert's room would

18:53

move on their own. The small play

18:56

table and chairs would often end up stacked, one

18:58

on top of the other, in sort of

19:00

a furniture sculpture. Another time,

19:02

the table seemed deformed as if the plastic

19:04

it was made of had been melted. Mark

19:07

and Mary Ann documented this, but soon

19:09

the table had returned to its original

19:11

shape. Most startling, one

19:14

night the chest of drawers holding Robert's clothes

19:16

was placed on top of his bed while

19:18

he was in it. I

19:21

mean, the evidence is all the log that they kept.

19:24

In some cases, they would take some photos

19:26

here and there. But for the

19:28

most of this, it is just they,

19:30

she kept a diary of weird things happen in

19:32

the house and she would tell them about it. And

19:36

therein for me lies the

19:38

problem. My problem extends.

19:40

Yeah. Unless you have evidence

19:43

of some sort that isn't just

19:45

your word, you're really making everybody

19:48

just be like blindly trust you

19:50

that what's going on is going

19:52

on. And I mean,

19:54

I'm unless I

19:56

have evidence and if there's so much

19:58

happening in your house that It's disrupting

20:00

your daily life and there's all these

20:02

horrible images and your stuffies are trying

20:05

to kill each other Why

20:07

wouldn't you have cameras on 24-7? Why

20:09

wouldn't you be taking pictures of ever?

20:11

I would leave a fucking live stream

20:13

going in every room of the house

20:15

to capture any of it Like why

20:17

wouldn't you do that? It's 2006. Yeah,

20:20

you say even 2006, you know, we didn't we

20:22

didn't have iPhones yet We had some camera

20:24

phones, but we had digital cameras. I mean there

20:27

were I won't say, you know cheap

20:29

It was probably a couple hundred bucks. But if

20:32

there were definitely video cameras. Yeah, Oh 100%

20:34

there's video cameras I'm like also if you're

20:36

a paranormal investigator none of that

20:38

equipment got left, you know, you don't okay They

20:40

would come in and do like a prolonged periods

20:42

or she would say hey, it's going really wild

20:45

I also found it a little Interesting

20:48

that sometimes as the

20:51

investigators were on their way Something

20:53

would happen 20 minutes before

20:55

the investigators arrived So then they arrived and

20:57

mark and Marian are like, oh my god,

20:59

you just missed it something just happened and

21:02

I would say oh Hmm

21:04

timing these gentlemen tended to

21:07

go well the pelt must have knew we

21:09

was on the way So they started it

21:11

early said we wouldn't see it and it's

21:13

like I wouldn't have gone that direction without

21:15

information Sometimes

21:17

we want to believe being so

21:19

bad that it clouds our judgment

21:22

of what? Reality really

21:24

looks like and according to

21:26

this Society for psychical research That is an

21:28

element that needs to be addressed when analyzing

21:30

a paranormal situation is Like

21:33

essentially creating a matrix of like how

21:35

much each person involved each witness involved

21:37

Truly believes in the paranormal because that

21:39

really does indicate like if I heard

21:41

a bump in the night and you

21:44

were to bump the night I think

21:46

our belief in paranormal is slightly different.

21:48

So an investigator speaking to me would

21:50

have to understand Hey Heather is

21:52

a little bit more of a believer She

21:54

gets she's kind of startles herself easily

21:56

versus Chrissy loves us. She's more of like an

21:59

Occam's razor. She wanted a lot more

22:01

evidence. They would, if you said you heard

22:03

something in a review of a paranormal investigation,

22:05

it sounds like the SPR would go, okay,

22:07

well, if Christy heard something that's a little

22:10

bit more credible than Heather hearing something, not

22:12

because one's truth telling more than the other,

22:14

but it's human nature. Like my interpretation is

22:17

going to be different than yours. And so

22:19

that's vital to look at. And it's vital

22:21

that the investigators don't fall kind of like

22:23

all the way on the Heathers picture from

22:26

like beyond me. Really

22:29

when anyone's investigating anything, a crime, the

22:31

paranormal, you have to be unbiased in

22:33

order for you to have like an

22:36

honest and fair review of the situation.

22:38

Certainly. Sinisterhood

22:41

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yet, and it won't last

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long with Helix better sleep

24:47

starts now The

24:50

poltergeist seemed drawn to Robert's Magna

24:52

doodle boards the boy had

24:54

two which were usually kept in his closet Several

24:57

times messages appeared on the board without

25:00

Mary Ann Mark or Robert having touched

25:02

it at one point

25:04

It said two letters see and

25:06

you repeated so it read out

25:08

loud See you see you

25:10

see you Another time

25:13

when the family had left the house

25:15

temporarily because of too many unexplained incidents

25:17

The board wrote an apparently misspelled

25:20

farewell message Hey, baby

25:23

Which Mary Ann and the investigators believed should

25:25

have read bye. Bye. Yeah,

25:28

it's be why so they like Beyonce

25:30

Maybe it's just a part of the

25:32

beehive. Hey Maybe

25:35

see you they're like you need while you're out

25:37

go to your credit union and Yeah

25:43

again, it's a really helpful helpful poltergeist and

25:45

no one is paying attention to his helpfulness

25:47

It was like you got to get on

25:49

that new Beyonce record Missing

25:51

it your credit score is suffering. So stop

25:53

by and speak to somebody and see what

25:55

you can do And so like well, you

25:58

could sell your haunted house because you could

26:00

probably make a lot of money on that.

26:02

People love that kind of stuff. That's

26:05

where they got the idea. The

26:07

board also once read, Give

26:09

it a chance. Which no one

26:11

could decipher. Most disturbingly

26:14

was a three letter message that

26:16

simply read, Die. These

26:19

would be nothing more than written threats

26:22

except the Pult hid their three year

26:24

old twice. Mark and Mary

26:27

Ann came in his room to check on him once

26:29

and found his bed empty. An unrecognized

26:31

umbrella was hanging on the closet

26:33

door handle. They found Robert

26:35

under the table in his room, swaddled

26:38

in his quilt, asleep with his

26:40

eyes open. This happened

26:42

once more a few weeks later.

26:44

The second time, the boy was

26:46

found hidden in a parent's closet

26:48

and again he was swaddled tightly

26:50

and sound asleep. Now

26:53

Paul, it sounds like it wants to be friends. Give it

26:55

a chance. Give it a

26:57

chance. I

27:01

find it strange that anyone is

27:03

swaddling a three year old. Well,

27:05

that's what they said that he, the argument in

27:07

the book was that Robert couldn't have just sleepwalked

27:10

somewhere else because he was, and they

27:12

didn't put him to bed that way.

27:14

They found him

27:16

under the table with the blankets super tightly

27:18

wrapped around him and he was just, I

27:21

guess, sleeping with his eyes open in the same

27:23

in their closet that it's like they didn't do

27:25

that to him. I don't know if you're

27:28

a kid. Can you just like, you could probably

27:30

like, talk to yourself and wrap yourself up and

27:32

stuff. Ella's tangles herself up in her blankets all

27:35

the time. Again, though,

27:38

they say they didn't do this to him. But

27:41

all we have are diary accounts that

27:43

this happened and that they found him.

27:46

There's no video evidence or photographic evidence.

27:48

So it's just their

27:50

word, which I hope is

27:53

just their word because if they

27:55

really did find him swaddled tightly

27:57

underneath his table asleep with his eyes open.

28:00

It sounds like he's in distress. He's

28:02

really traumatized by something to

28:04

which I would say maybe seek out

28:06

a doctor or psychologist but

28:08

he's also three and probably,

28:12

I mean simon's three he can

28:14

talk and stuff, but It's

28:17

not like if ella was going to come in and tell

28:19

us like i've seen something in my room, you know, it's

28:21

going to be piece and

28:23

things together more a lot of lot of Plot

28:26

points missing perhaps. No

28:28

true. I think you're right if your kids swaddled like that

28:31

and Especially if it's

28:33

becoming tori he's missing for swaths

28:35

of time You gotta

28:37

go stay with your mom like you gotta go somewhere else or

28:39

do something Or have him stay in

28:41

your room with you. Yeah sleep in

28:43

the middle between y'all or something like that But

28:46

yeah, no, they you're correct. There is

28:48

no for this element of the the

28:50

poltergeist incident It's my understanding. It's just diary

28:53

of a swaddled kid like they just whatever they

28:55

wrote down equal to diary of

28:57

a wumpy kid In

29:01

addition to roberts room activity occurred around

29:04

the house The bathroom door would

29:06

slam as if someone was in the room Toys

29:08

would end up placed in unusual spots

29:11

around the house like along a windows

29:13

sill or balanced on the banisters Toys

29:15

and crayons would be thrown from robert's

29:18

upstairs room while mark or maryanne were

29:20

in the garden But they

29:22

somehow ended up being thrown through a

29:24

closed window The

29:27

toys being around the house yet again,

29:29

i'm not a parent but that sounds

29:31

pretty typical I have just

29:33

been being placed in where I have been

29:35

looking for two weeks for my um Eye

29:39

pillow math that I sleep with at night. I

29:41

have no idea where it is It's probably at

29:43

the bottom of a stuffy basket. I

29:46

um, what did I find the other day?

29:49

That i've been looking for forever and it

29:51

was like In the back

29:54

of simon's closet stuff to understand. I mean they'll just

29:56

let go in and you're like that places all the

29:58

time Yeah, I used to do do that as a kid, my

30:01

dad's comb that he would do his hair with, I

30:03

would wander off with it and he would just have

30:06

to be like, where was it? Well, when your child

30:08

has ADHD, it's like, oh, I don't know. And it

30:10

could be in the tree house outside. It could be

30:12

in the dishwasher. It could be in your bedroom. It

30:14

could be in my bedroom. It could be in the

30:16

car at the restaurant. We were just like, you know,

30:19

it's like I had it in my hand and I

30:21

don't even remember. So when they were saying like, our

30:23

home has been plagued by a polter guys because toys

30:26

were outside of our three year old's room.

30:28

And I was like, I feel like that's

30:30

like normal. And they said one of the

30:32

dolls, it was an action figure. His head

30:34

was turned the all other direction and bent.

30:37

And I was like, so like what I used to

30:39

do with the Barbies, I'd rip their arms off. So

30:41

like a three year old sounds like he was playing

30:43

with it probably. And that's just, yeah,

30:46

it sounds just like, um, normal

30:48

toddler behavior so far. Except,

30:50

you know, I mean, obviously

30:52

I guess, I

30:55

mean, when Ella was a kid

30:57

younger than three, she used

30:59

to stack everything in her room

31:01

and her crib and we would watch

31:04

her do it. So I know it wasn't a poltergeist

31:06

because we had a baby monitor and you could just

31:08

see her like at nap time,

31:10

get out of her crib, walk around

31:12

the room, gather every stuffy. One time

31:14

her, she had a small chair

31:17

in there with her. Like she would just put

31:19

everything she owned in there. And you would think

31:22

if we didn't have a baby monitor, man,

31:24

a ghost must have come in here and

31:26

did this insane that she did

31:28

it. No, that's just what kids

31:30

do. And Simon, they like to hoard stuff

31:32

and like surround themselves with their things. I

31:34

think it makes them feel like comfortable

31:37

or safe. So none of

31:39

this seems, um, now stuff getting thrown

31:42

through a closed window. Sure. That'd be weird. Do

31:44

I think it happened? No.

31:48

Yeah. Again, it's one of those words like it's

31:50

so weird that this thing happened. The other incident,

31:52

which I think now's a

31:54

good time to mention it was a situation

31:56

where Mark, I believe

31:59

was indoors. But everyone

32:01

else was out in the garden and

32:03

they look up and see a

32:05

Stuffy from Robert's room being hung

32:07

out the window. Like

32:09

it had been, you know, hung in, part

32:12

hung out. And Mary

32:14

Ann and Robert were outside with maybe like her

32:16

parents, but anyway, she came inside and freaked out

32:18

and was like, Oh my God, the bear, like,

32:20

his Stuffy has been hung from the window. Obviously

32:23

the ghost did it. Well, Mark said,

32:25

Oh, well, I did it. I was just kidding. I just

32:27

was joking. Okay. And then later, okay.

32:31

How is this even a story? Hang on. So

32:34

then later when the investigators come back,

32:36

then he tells them, hey, there was

32:38

a Stuffy hanging outside the window.

32:41

I told her that I did it, but I

32:43

actually didn't do it because I didn't want her

32:45

to get upset that the ghost was doing more

32:48

stuff. So that was actually she thinks it was

32:50

me, but it actually was. And I was like,

32:52

between you and Ian, I'm going to knock your heads together

32:55

like the fucking three stooges. You, Ian,

32:57

and the stabby, rabbit, like, what are you

32:59

all doing? I

33:01

also would be way more

33:04

pissed off at my husband for being like, oh,

33:06

I did that because I'm like,

33:08

why are you being part of the problem? You don't take

33:10

this seriously. Then if

33:12

I thought, okay, this is another

33:14

thing I can enter into my diary. Yeah, exactly. It

33:18

was an interesting. Well, that's why

33:20

I lied about it. And they say in the

33:22

book, well, we understand why he would have done

33:24

it. It's because he wanted to protect Marianne. I'm

33:26

like any criminal or paranormal when the investigators are

33:29

involved, stop lying to people because we need to

33:31

be able to like, suss out what happened in

33:33

facts and stuff. So each

33:35

time something like that happened where Ian or Mark

33:37

were goosing each other when they're walking up the stairs

33:39

laughing or this, where it's like, who's on first? Who

33:41

did the round? I'm like, well, I don't even want to help

33:44

you, motherfucker. I hope the ghost gets you. Like, yeah,

33:46

it's hard to take the kids seriously. And

33:50

also, if I, if

33:54

you're admitting that you're doing this, why wouldn't

33:56

I think that you also put a razor

33:58

blade in a stuffed rabbit's hand? You

34:00

know what I mean? Like it seems like you

34:02

got a thing with Suppy's doing creepy shit Interesting.

34:06

Maybe you're the one behind that too.

34:08

This whole story is just so crazy to me

34:11

like because To have such

34:13

little evidence for it being modern times.

34:15

I just don't understand if this was

34:17

in the 1800s, okay Yeah,

34:20

yeah Grogling though. There's a ton of

34:23

ways that you could record this and

34:25

if it's so prevalent it's happening constantly

34:28

Then set some cameras up to capture shit. I

34:31

was saying this the other night on the porch

34:33

I don't understand how in since

34:37

the dawn of time No

34:39

one has been able to capture Solid

34:43

clear images of

34:46

like extraterrestrials UFOs

34:49

UAPs, whatever because The

34:52

military's got a gazillion goddamn dollars

34:55

They can build rockets and

34:57

planes that make no noise and when

34:59

they're flying over countries But you're telling

35:01

me you can't take a clear picture

35:04

of an unidentified Flying

35:06

object in the sky and said you got this

35:09

little black blurb that like nobody knows what they're

35:11

looking at It makes no sense to me

35:13

much like this like I don't with modern

35:16

times I don't get how we just don't

35:18

have the proof. I don't understand

35:20

now We don't have the solid proof

35:22

or like clear cut pictures

35:25

No, I think you make a good

35:27

point, especially given the technology that's available

35:30

Our standards should be and are

35:32

high for what we call evidence So it

35:35

is bizarre that at least a swath of

35:37

the paranormal community is like Oh Southshield

35:39

is like one of the most documented but

35:41

the photos There's no video to my knowledge

35:43

that's available if you are listening and you

35:46

know of Southshield's video I'm not talking about

35:48

the photos that are in the book like

35:51

film because they repeatedly say in there Mary

35:53

Ann sent us this footage of the chair

35:55

moving. We have footage of this bottle balancing

35:57

kind of on the table and it's still

35:59

image of a bottle balancing on its side,

36:01

kind of on the table, is in the book, my

36:04

guy friends in high school used to do that, like

36:06

they would flip water bottles and get them to balance.

36:09

You know, so them going, well it did it on

36:11

its own. Again, call me a

36:13

scamfang, but without it being footage of that, it's

36:15

just an image of a bottle balancing. That's not

36:17

compelling to me. So it is interesting that it's

36:19

kind of put forth to us as like, this

36:21

is, you're gonna, what has happened, I think, to

36:23

both of us, is that we've been working with

36:25

the ghost guild too long. And now that we've

36:27

worked, first of all, I think

36:29

our standards have changed when we work with people

36:32

who take it seriously, as far as like, truly,

36:34

you might not find anything. Like when we went

36:36

to Trans-Allegheny, I wasn't like, we're definitely gonna find

36:38

something. And we haven't even gone through all the

36:40

footage to like, know if we did. But going

36:43

in to say, I'm here with an open mind,

36:45

I'm here to track anomalous things, is much different.

36:47

And it fits much different with, I think you

36:49

and I both, than someone who's like, well, it's

36:52

definitely a ghost. I'll tell you that. And you're

36:54

like, you've been here eight minutes. What do you

36:56

mean it's definitely a ghost? But you're right, I

36:58

think there should be, if there is such

37:01

like, amazing dazzling footage in this

37:03

case, show, okay, show us

37:05

the footage. Put it on fucking

37:07

YouTube, you'll be a bajillion views. Oh, you'd

37:09

be the most famous person in the world.

37:11

The first person to come out with like,

37:14

you know, eye-phone quality footage

37:16

of some kind of paranormal

37:18

activity, interplanetary,

37:21

being, extraterrestrial being,

37:23

anything like that. I

37:26

just don't get how it just hasn't

37:28

happened. Why don't we have those pictures

37:30

of Bigfoot? Or, you know what I

37:33

mean? All these people claim that they've

37:35

had these interactions. Does

37:37

nobody pull out their phone? Everybody's got their

37:40

phone on them. We can all film somebody

37:42

getting a shit beat out of them at

37:44

the mall, but nobody can film an actual,

37:48

like, alien, what's going on here? No,

37:51

I think you're right. The one thing I will say

37:53

about aliens, the USOs and stuff after we watched

37:55

that interview at the Rear Admiral on

37:58

NBC News, but. If

38:00

there was footage, I think that if

38:03

it was like high quality Government

38:05

satellite imagery. I don't think they're gonna show

38:07

us now. They probably have it out. Yeah,

38:09

they probably have it. I mean like Individuals.

38:13

Yeah, and don't send it to the

38:15

government because they're gonna take it and delete it Keep

38:18

it for yourself. Send it to us Send

38:21

it to send a podcast@gmail.com and we

38:23

will make sure it gets into

38:26

the right hand Yes, we'll be

38:28

fiduciaries of it. Yes our hands but also

38:30

the public Yeah, no, I think you're right

38:32

all that tangent all that tangent to say

38:34

is I think this is frustrating because we

38:36

both want to Review legitimate

38:38

evidence, but what we have here is

38:40

just a series of photos that We're

38:44

just sort of supposed to take everybody's word for

38:46

yeah, and I have a hard time Taking

38:49

people's words for it when

38:51

it's stuff like

38:53

this Any

38:56

I don't take anybody's word for anything what people

38:58

weird guys came to my door and they said

39:00

they were with the electric company I took a

39:02

photo of them of their car and I immediately

39:04

grabbed a piece of paper and I wrote down

39:07

What happened because like in that second? I was like,

39:09

I just have to capture everything I know in the

39:11

second because if you ask me in an hour, I'm

39:13

like, oh, I don't know I

39:15

think he kind of look like Al from

39:18

tool time like I don't your brain makes

39:20

such like anomalous things So anything that we're

39:22

supposed to rely on eyewitnesses I usually

39:25

have a lot of doubts about it because

39:27

you our brains just like lie

39:29

and trick us Yeah, and

39:31

especially when the person that's claiming this

39:33

is happening is also saying well, sometimes

39:35

I just do it though Yeah,

39:37

that's a big one all the credibility out of

39:39

it is far as I'm concerned certainly,

39:41

yeah when Jim stabs Dwight's ball with

39:44

the Scissors it just goes

39:51

The scariest part was when the

39:54

entity or entities turned violent

39:56

a huge carving knife was thrown at

39:59

Marianne's back she stood in the kitchen

40:01

alone. Another time, she

40:03

headed to the bathroom late at night

40:05

and found Robert Steffie of Tigger from

40:07

Winnie the Pooh placed on the toilet

40:09

seat with a carving knife beside it.

40:12

Mark was also victim to violence. He

40:14

was hit in the head with countless

40:16

toys and trucks and suffered bruises when

40:19

a full bed frame was seemingly pushed

40:21

by an unseen force on the family

40:23

as they left to stay at Mary

40:25

Ann's mother's house. Hey, Tigger was

40:27

just trying to do a little witlin' on the can late

40:29

at night. Among us, hasn't. Another

40:32

Soapy with a knife in their hand.

40:34

I feel like this has

40:36

Mark written all over it and he thinks

40:38

it's funny or

40:40

I mean, why does anybody

40:43

potentially, you know, stage something

40:45

like this? I think

40:47

there's different motives for different people. But

40:50

if he's already admitted to one thing, even though

40:52

he went back and backtracked, I still think that

40:54

he went and took Tigger and then he got

40:57

a knife and then his wife

40:59

tried to go to the bathroom. She might not

41:01

know what's going on. That was

41:03

the sad part to me because honestly, part

41:05

of me thinks that she is a victim

41:08

in this and

41:10

really might think some stuff is going on

41:12

and it's all kind of being like made

41:14

up around her and she doesn't know it.

41:18

That was my concern as well because the

41:21

handwriting, we'll get to it. But

41:24

there's some reason to believe that. Yeah.

41:27

Mike, Darren, and another investigator, also

41:30

called Darren, worked with the family

41:32

to identify what may be causing

41:34

the disturbance. There were at

41:36

least four apparitions that had been spotted at

41:39

the house and deemed to be poltergeist. The

41:41

term poltergeist is used by many to

41:43

refer to as a powerful

41:46

demonstration of uncontrolled psychokinetic

41:48

forces resulting from psychological

41:50

angst. According to

41:53

Dr. Callum E. Cooper of the University

41:55

of Northampton, this would mean it

41:57

is not a conscious entity or one with a desire to be

41:59

a victim. distinct personality. It

42:01

is merely a reflection of psychic energy.

42:05

Others believe a poltergeist is a physical

42:08

manifestation of some discarnate intelligence,

42:11

one which seemingly delights at teasing and

42:13

tormenting those who are unfortunate enough to

42:16

encounter it, according to Dr.

42:18

Cooper. The investigators at

42:20

South Shields were ensured they were dealing

42:22

with one poltergeist taking on multiple

42:24

forms or one poltergeist generating

42:27

enough energy to attract other

42:29

forms. Robert

42:32

had reported seeing an entity he called

42:34

the man. Described

42:36

as having long black hair and

42:38

a beard, the man wore a

42:41

long coat and a Homburg hat

42:43

like Winston Churchill. Robert claimed

42:45

he saw the entity floating above his

42:47

bed sometimes. Other times

42:49

he would stand beside the boy's closet.

42:52

Once when they were playing downstairs, Robert

42:55

pointed to an area beside the

42:57

sofa and let his parents know

42:59

the man was standing nearby. During

43:03

another incident in Robert's room, Mark asked

43:05

Mary Ann, do you want to

43:07

get some dinner? Robert looked toward

43:09

his closet and told his parents. He

43:12

said yes. Mark

43:14

asked for clarification, to which Robert

43:16

replied, the man said yes, he'd

43:18

like some dinner. Mark

43:21

filmed this event, but when he looked

43:23

at the video on his computer later, it was

43:26

only a blank screen that read

43:28

Ha Ha Ha. Yeah,

43:34

here's the thing, man, I'm just going through reading

43:36

this book. And then

43:39

I got silly. And I was

43:41

like, so you're telling me the poltergeist is not

43:43

only a computer hacker, but

43:45

is the Joker from Batman? Yes,

43:49

yeah, yeah, yeah. It somehow

43:51

it can't use

43:54

a magnet doodle correctly, but it can hack

43:57

into a computer completely delete some.

44:00

thing and then how would one

44:02

even replace that video with a blank

44:04

screen that read that? Maybe we need

44:06

Paris to weigh in on is this

44:08

even possible to do? Paris

44:11

or if we need a hacker to weigh in in 2006 also.

44:14

Yeah I first of all I'm sad

44:19

for the kid if he feels like he

44:22

sees Winston Churchill in a long black wig

44:24

floating up over his bed because that's horrible

44:26

anyway. Now as

44:29

far as my research did not show anything and

44:31

I mean he was three at the time of

44:33

course of Roberts

44:35

like being the one to

44:37

talk about I mean it's all third-party

44:39

you know his parents saying well he

44:42

told us you know it's again their

44:44

recounting of what their son said

44:46

to them so and he was three

44:48

so I don't even know as an adult used

44:50

to be like hey do you ever remember seeing

44:52

the man in your room you

44:54

know do you ever remember being shoved under

44:56

your table after you were

44:58

swaddled super tight in your blankets I'm sure

45:00

that he wouldn't know so he's

45:03

kind of an innocent bystander and honestly

45:05

like a pawn. Yeah they did Mike

45:08

and Darren did interview him but like

45:10

I've also like had conversations with Simon he's

45:12

three you know it's like a three-year-old like

45:14

yeah he's a three-year-old whatever I'm talking about

45:16

I believe him but also you know if he

45:19

was like there's a zebra in my room I

45:21

would be like Chrissy there's something like

45:24

oh really like let's go see

45:26

the zebra like I don't know

45:28

so yeah they watch shows and

45:30

sometimes things get a little they

45:33

might blur the lines

45:35

between fiction and reality because they're

45:37

three years old so I

45:40

hope he wasn't being like fed anything

45:42

and told like you know or like

45:45

coerced or maybe not coerced

45:48

that might be harsh word but like persuade

45:51

it you know like leading questions like well

45:53

remember when you told us you saw that

45:55

man in your room with the hat and

45:58

then tell them you're like oh yeah Yeah,

46:00

mommy. I remember, you know what I mean? Like, what

46:02

are you gonna be like, what are you talking about,

46:05

mom? I never saw that. You're three years old. Yeah.

46:09

So Mr. Hood will be right back. Well,

46:12

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46:14

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46:16

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46:18

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46:20

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46:22

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46:24

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46:26

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46:28

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46:30

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46:32

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46:34

not only that, I love my David

46:36

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46:38

Shonda Rhimes writing class. Aaron Sorkin's writing

46:41

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46:43

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46:45

for the show or my own personal

46:47

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46:49

It not only just helps you to make

46:51

a make yourself like have a fun hobby,

46:53

but it also get better for stuff that

46:55

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46:57

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47:49

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47:51

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47:54

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48:14

Mark and Mary Ann also saw what

48:16

they described as a white

48:18

figure in Robert's room. Robert

48:21

had seen what he described as a

48:24

lady, also in his

48:26

room and even talked to her. The

48:28

most interaction the toddler had was with

48:30

an entity he called Sammy. Robert

48:33

said the two would play together. In an

48:35

interview with Mike, Robert explained that

48:37

Sammy was also three years old,

48:39

that sometimes he pushed Robert when he

48:41

got mad and that Sammy had blue

48:44

skin with bubbles on it from where

48:46

he got burned in a fire.

48:50

Well, these are all sad images. You

48:52

know, no one wants to think of

48:54

a three year old getting bullied by a

48:56

ghost three year old. No, certainly is a

48:59

ghost because he was horribly maimed

49:02

in a fire. Yeah, it's a

49:05

quite a description. I will say if

49:07

you asked my parents when I was between

49:09

four and six, I was

49:12

vehement that I had a

49:17

imaginary friend like I would get mad if

49:19

you were like, they're not real. Ferris Bueller

49:21

and Karen and Sloan are not here. They're

49:23

not real. I would be like, Ferris Bueller

49:25

is here. Like, that's Ferris Bueller is right there.

49:27

Like, I was obsessed with it that it was

49:30

like they were in the room and

49:32

I could like see them. Well, that's a part

49:34

of growing up, a part of childhood, whatever you

49:36

talked about why kids have imaginary friends, yada, yada.

49:38

So I think like having a kid be like,

49:40

there's a bit of a little boy. My sister

49:42

was like, had an imaginary friend that was a

49:45

baby. So baby, then you had

49:47

to like, wait, the baby's walking. And it's like,

49:49

how big is the baby? Like six months old,

49:51

but could walk, whatever. You know, it's imaginary, right? Turner,

49:53

fucking advanced baby in our family. But you'd have to

49:55

like wait and hold the door open so the

49:57

baby could come through the door. And it wasn't

49:59

like Shannon is being tormented by a

50:01

baby entity that wants a baby from Ally

50:03

McBeal So it's hard for

50:06

me to kind of go well and they do talk

50:08

about what we'll we'll talk about later the QC

50:10

it's a type of paranormal entity that

50:12

perhaps sort of appears as an imaginary

50:14

friend, but isn't but and in this

50:16

case I Don't

50:18

know that a kid like being really sure that

50:21

they have an imaginary friend is like Evidence

50:23

in my book. I don't know that Ella has

50:27

ever talked about an imaginary

50:30

friend as if it Were

50:33

a real person her thing is more stuffies

50:37

and you know like giving them

50:39

a personifying

50:41

her stuffies and you know, but

50:43

even then she if Someone

50:46

were to ask her Oh is

50:48

turtle a real turtle should be like

50:50

no he's a self turtle I just pretend

50:53

that he's real, you know, it's so Yeah,

50:56

but in you know, I mean earlier

50:58

we were having a mystery because and

51:00

Crocodile was lost in the house and Simon

51:03

was walking around with a magnifying glass and

51:05

a lantern trying to find it He

51:08

and then he finds it and it's a suppy. So

51:11

You play pretend like these things are real and maybe

51:14

you know later the kids like there was

51:16

a crocodile in my house We had get

51:18

it out and it's like, oh, okay,

51:21

but then if you get the backstory, it's

51:23

like well The parents

51:25

it was it was a fun game. They were playing

51:27

there's not really a crocodile in their house Yeah

51:30

to my knowledge that Matthew Broderick and

51:32

Alan Ruck and all them were not

51:34

in my house at all Oh, but

51:36

maybe if they asked for projections right

51:38

for your four-year-old bedroom But

51:41

yeah, you're right. It's like That's

51:43

an interesting story about your imaginary friend

51:45

buddy. Thanks. Well into all that that

51:47

I was talking about is like as

51:51

The investigators I would hope you would

51:53

you know kind of suss that out and

51:55

pull out more information to get you know

51:57

a full picture but It

52:01

seems as if these investigators from

52:03

the beginning really took everyone at

52:05

their word and went in

52:07

with the mindset of this

52:09

is already a haunting, so

52:12

we're just going to treat it like that

52:14

instead of like Nelson and the

52:16

ghost guild where they're like, we

52:19

are not going to assume anything. It's like

52:21

innocent until proven guilty type of rules, you

52:23

know, like we're going to go in and

52:26

assume that there's nothing going on. And then

52:28

if something happens, we'll try and debunk that.

52:30

And then if we can't, then we still

52:32

aren't going to say 100%. There

52:36

is an entity here. You could say there's

52:38

something unexplainable happened. We

52:40

don't have an explanation for it.

52:43

But I don't think anyone, especially

52:46

when you refuse to hand over the

52:48

footage, can definitively say

52:50

this was paranormal activity. No,

52:53

I think you're right. No

52:55

good paleontologist is like, well,

52:57

whatever bones we find today are definitely going to

52:59

be a T-Rex. It's like, you don't know what you're going

53:01

to go out and find. You just dig and then

53:03

you put together the pieces and go, this may

53:06

be something new. It may be some pieces we

53:08

didn't notice before, but not, well, there it is.

53:10

We found yet another T-Rex every time. And it's

53:12

like, well, okay, that's not really science. Side

53:15

note, I saw it to

53:18

talk recently about paleontologists

53:20

reconstructing dinosaur bones and stuff

53:22

and just like, wrong. I

53:25

mean, do we, it all could just

53:27

be wrong. Yeah. Like maybe they

53:30

look like giant bunnies. Yeah. Or

53:32

like somebody

53:34

says they had a lot more feathers than

53:36

anybody. We've been

53:38

making them look like lizards, but they, in fact,

53:40

they would be like a plucked chicken if we

53:43

were just going off of the skin. It should have actually

53:45

had big. So giant emus. Well, that's more

53:47

terrifying. That's worse somehow. Someone's going to make that

53:49

movie. I did see

53:51

a TikTok of a woman singing, you

53:53

are my sunshine to her pet emu.

53:56

And it laid its head down across her

53:58

bosom and fell asleep. shoe. Well that's

54:01

maybe that's often to your emu views

54:03

a bit. No it lays there until

54:05

it turns around and it turns on

54:07

you. Now people in common were surprised

54:09

that this emu was showing a softer

54:11

side because it often is trying to come

54:14

after the earth. I fuck with big bird

54:16

but not big birds. Not big birds. In

54:20

attempt to get rid of the Pult,

54:22

Mike who is of Native American heritage

54:24

attempted to smudge the house and cleanse

54:26

the environment. When this

54:28

didn't work the investigators encouraged the

54:31

family to continue to maintain their

54:33

log of any additional activities by

54:35

the poltergeist. Meanwhile Mike

54:37

and Darren also reached out to a

54:39

few other investigators hoping to have more

54:42

support to help handle the case. Mark

54:45

seemed to be a target as he was locked

54:47

in the bathroom on more than one occasion. Halliwell

54:50

shared with Colorado paranormal the

54:52

Mark's meditation practice may have

54:54

left him susceptible to a

54:56

poltergeist. Mark also

54:59

suffered more physical injuries including

55:01

inexplicable cuts and scratches. He

55:03

had one case of welts on his

55:06

skin that materialized while the investigators were

55:08

present and filming. The welts

55:10

eventually began to bleed. In

55:13

total Mike and Darren collected

55:15

first-hand written statements from Mark,

55:17

Marianne, their family and additional

55:19

investigators totaling over 20

55:21

people who had seen strange phenomena

55:24

occurring in the home. The

55:27

injuries on Mark were like these scratch

55:29

welts which again there's photos

55:31

in the book and then

55:33

supposedly somewhere there's video footage

55:35

but on the fortiana.org forum

55:37

someone said if you scratch yourself it takes

55:39

a while for the welts to appear and

55:41

so that was kind of the argument was

55:43

that for them to say we put the

55:46

camera on his skin and then out of

55:48

nowhere welts appeared. Well if you scratch yourself

55:50

out of view and then you're only watching

55:52

that but I believe it

55:54

was Mike responded and said very true

55:56

but on more than one occasion we

55:58

had the experience. under observation

56:00

for bloody ages before the cuts

56:02

appeared. And multiple eyewitnesses will confirm

56:05

that he never at any time,

56:07

it said, rove himself

56:09

to bits that might be a British

56:11

thing like scratched himself, or

56:13

did anything to precipitate the scratches. So

56:18

again, though, it's like, well, everybody

56:20

that was there saw it too.

56:22

So where's the footage? Yeah, the

56:24

tapes. Yeah, that's, he said,

56:26

a lot of people were

56:28

like, allegedly, if there's like footage, will

56:30

we ever get to see it? He

56:32

said it's with our agent, he wrote

56:34

this comment in 2008, though. So now

56:36

2024. Yeah, he said negotiations are ongoing

56:38

with a major documentary producer to get

56:41

the footage onto your screen ASAP. And

56:44

a lot of it was just like, we're going to

56:46

do it, we're going to do this documentary, we're going

56:48

to do this documentary in the coverage of it that

56:50

has been so far to me, it has not been

56:52

this like bombshell, finally, we all saw it, it's like,

56:54

well, but we're holding the real footage for like

56:56

the real documentary. I'm like, it's almost 20

56:59

years like, yeah, where is this

57:01

release, release the tapes.

57:04

Well, give me

57:06

a petition to sign to get this

57:08

documentary underway. I'm here. The

57:11

poll also seemed intent on irritating

57:13

Marianne and Mark as much as

57:15

possible. Valuable items would be

57:17

moved around the house or hidden from the pair.

57:20

Vital things like their credit cards, cell phones

57:22

and travel passes would be missing for hours

57:25

at a time. A valuable

57:27

figurine of an African lady would

57:29

be moved to odd places, including

57:32

balance at the top of the stairs. Now

57:35

this would just straight up piss me off. Yeah,

57:37

if I'm trying to get out, I'm already always

57:39

late, I can't find shit. And so

57:41

if I can't find my phone and

57:44

my keys or my passport and stuff,

57:47

don't do that. You were here, we

57:49

asked you to be our pollter guys to do

57:51

the dishes and clean up after the kids not

57:53

to hide all of our things. Right. You're only

57:55

invited if you're going to be a helpful ghost.

58:00

Chairs would be put on top of tables

58:02

or pulled out from undermark in Marianne while

58:04

they ate dinner. Even the

58:06

family's trash can would be knocked to the

58:08

side with garbage spilling out. Marianne

58:11

captured some of the chair movement on video

58:13

and shared it with investigators. Even

58:15

when she did film some events,

58:17

Marianne said the footage would get

58:20

erased from her phone without her

58:22

knowledge moments later. She

58:24

would be able to, in some cases, either Bluetooth

58:26

it to somebody else or connect

58:28

her phone to the computer and drag it

58:31

over there. But other

58:34

stuff would be like, well, I tried to take it and it got

58:36

erased. Like when Mark

58:38

said, oh, I filmed Robert saying

58:40

all this about the man wanting to go to dinner, but

58:43

when I got to my computer, it was erased with a

58:45

hahaha message. Yeah,

58:47

it seems sus. And again, Marianne

58:49

said the footage would get erased

58:51

from her phone without her knowledge.

58:55

I, for some reason, I

58:57

feel like Marianne really doesn't know the full scope

59:00

of what's going on. And maybe

59:02

like she did film something and then

59:05

Mark grabs her phone, goes in the

59:07

other room, just dirty, delete something. And

59:09

now she's like, oh, my God, the

59:11

ghost got into my phone. Or

59:13

you feel like you're going crazy. Like, did I really

59:16

see this? And like that, then we – and I

59:18

don't know that that's what happened. So

59:20

I'm not making any

59:22

kind of claims against anybody. I'm

59:24

just saying it's another possibility. And

59:27

it would be super sad if she's already worked

59:29

up and upset and scared and then to continue

59:31

doing it for whatever reason. Finally,

59:35

Marianne was fed up. In

59:38

late summer, when her cell phone had gone

59:40

missing yet again, she went up

59:42

to Robert's room to confront the entity. She

59:45

spoke to Sammy in a cross-tone and

59:47

told him to stop being naughty and

59:49

stealing the phones and other valuables. Marianne

59:52

warned that if Sammy didn't behave, the

59:54

whole family would have to leave and

59:56

Sammy wouldn't see Robert any longer. Marianne

59:59

then herded not – from the cupboard in

1:00:01

Robert's room. She opened the

1:00:03

door to find one of Robert's Magna

1:00:05

Doodle boards with three words on it.

1:00:09

I am sorry. Mary

1:00:12

Ann then began to communicate with the entity.

1:00:15

She claimed she received other

1:00:17

messages including, okay I

1:00:19

love Robert. Okay mom

1:00:21

but what about the dog? Bad

1:00:24

dog. And no no

1:00:26

no no no no no. Each

1:00:30

time Mary Ann and Mark would erase the

1:00:32

board, place it in the cupboard, and ask

1:00:34

a question. When they heard a knock,

1:00:36

they would open the cupboard to find a new

1:00:39

message. Yeah apparently they were asking it

1:00:41

questions of like it said I'm sorry and then she

1:00:43

said like okay well do you really mean it? And

1:00:45

then it wrote back okay I love Robert and

1:00:47

spelled his name wrong with two

1:00:49

B's R-O-B-B-E-R-T. And then they said okay well

1:00:51

you can play in there and then they said that they

1:00:54

got another message. What about the dog? So

1:00:56

apparently the dog would bark and growl or

1:00:58

whatever so they thought that meant oh

1:01:00

well the entity must not like the dog. Well

1:01:03

yeah I mean the dog was here first so true

1:01:06

yes and I if I

1:01:08

was an entity and a dog was always growling and barking

1:01:10

me I would not like that either. It's

1:01:13

bizarre that I mean

1:01:15

maybe I guess if this is really happening to

1:01:18

you you're like well here's the ritual we have

1:01:20

to put it in the cupboard and that's the

1:01:22

only way this thing is going to communicate with

1:01:24

us. Again how are we

1:01:27

not filming this whole fucking thing? Because I mean

1:01:29

this is straight out of a horror movie. It

1:01:31

sounds like an escape room like you gotta put

1:01:34

it ask it a question put

1:01:36

it in the cupboard wait for a knock and

1:01:38

then there's a message you know there's a whole

1:01:41

like processed so it

1:01:43

seems like it's taken a minute. You got enough

1:01:45

time to pull out a phone or a camera

1:01:47

and you know take some footage and

1:01:50

they yeah there's no video footage they would just

1:01:52

every time there would be a new message on

1:01:54

the board they would take a picture of the message. In

1:01:57

total Mark and Marianne claim they received

1:01:59

over a year dozen messages on the

1:02:01

Magna Doodle board and even took photos.

1:02:04

Mike and Darren sent the photos

1:02:06

to two handwriting experts, Dennis Duwez

1:02:08

in the United States and Dana

1:02:10

White in the UK. The

1:02:13

investigators included handwriting samples from themselves,

1:02:15

Mark, Maryann, her brother Ian, and

1:02:17

others who had been in the

1:02:20

house for comparison and exclusion. So

1:02:23

I just want to tell everybody listening, this is the time in

1:02:25

the book where I was like, Hey, we're

1:02:28

doing it. We're really investigating. I love this. Dennis

1:02:30

Duwez, they were like, he's an expert. He's been

1:02:32

on Fox News. I was like, okay, well, you're

1:02:34

from England, so you don't know, but expert.

1:02:37

All right, whatever. But he really is like, you

1:02:39

look him up. He's like a graphologist to the

1:02:41

extent that that's a legitimate science, but they can

1:02:43

at least like do analysis on this. And the

1:02:45

same with Dana White. Like these are people who

1:02:47

are used in court cases. You know, you might

1:02:49

be tapped as an expert witness. So

1:02:51

I got fucking thrilled. I was

1:02:53

like, Oh my God, they're doing another

1:02:56

perspective. Finally, someone that's not

1:02:58

unbiased is going to weigh in on this situation.

1:03:00

You guys just like all feel the same gut

1:03:02

punches. I do here. The

1:03:06

reports came back and both

1:03:08

experts were in agreement. The

1:03:10

handwriting matched Mark's white's

1:03:13

report described the author as someone

1:03:16

in distress, had a strong desire to be

1:03:18

noticed as well as a disturbed mind. Not

1:03:21

only was Mark's handwriting notably

1:03:23

similar to the messages on the

1:03:26

Doodle board, but Mark was

1:03:28

dyslexic and it seemed from some of the

1:03:30

messages. So was the poltergeist.

1:03:33

This left the investigators with two

1:03:35

possibilities. According to a later review

1:03:37

in the society for psychical research,

1:03:40

Mark was either faking the messages

1:03:42

or non-consciously producing them

1:03:45

in some way, perhaps

1:03:47

via psychokinetic or recurrent

1:03:49

spontaneous psychokinesis or RSPK

1:03:52

and without an awareness of his

1:03:54

actions as the poltergeist, so-called focus

1:03:57

person. Yeah, they get the results

1:03:59

back and they're like. Well, either he faked

1:04:01

it or more likely the ghost

1:04:03

is just using his handwriting Because

1:04:06

he's the force and I'm telling Paris doesn't

1:04:08

he went yeah outcomes razor obviously Yeah,

1:04:13

so either he's doing

1:04:16

it and he knowingly or according

1:04:18

to them His

1:04:21

body is being taken over by

1:04:23

the poltergeist kind of using him

1:04:25

as a conduit to write these

1:04:27

messages Yes, but a

1:04:29

condom a non-physical Well physical or non-physical

1:04:31

conduit because they're saying it could be

1:04:33

that he's not even touching the board

1:04:35

but that because his energy is the

1:04:37

energy that they're using of Course

1:04:40

it makes sense. Yeah that the handwriting

1:04:42

and the speech pattern like the both

1:04:44

with the evidence of dyslexia and the

1:04:47

Physical like movement of the

1:04:49

letters. Oh, well, that's why it

1:04:51

looks like mark It's not that he's making these

1:04:53

up and writing him. That's The

1:04:56

question Obviously the ghost is

1:04:58

still writing him, but they're just using his handwriting and

1:05:00

he couldn't even know makes total sense Sinisterhood

1:05:04

will be right back. I really

1:05:07

love to Compliment

1:05:09

my well anybody I love I'm a words

1:05:11

of affirmation kind of a gal and

1:05:14

you kind of run out of things It's like I

1:05:16

love you. You're so amazing. You're so great. Yeah, and

1:05:18

with the paired app I get

1:05:20

prompted ways that I can bless my sweet

1:05:22

honey Paris with kind words Like what was

1:05:24

a gift that Paris got you that totally

1:05:26

blew your mind or made a difference or

1:05:29

what are kind things that your friends Say

1:05:31

about Paris when he's not around things that

1:05:33

I would maybe not think to even pick

1:05:35

up on or write down to share with

1:05:37

Him. Yeah to share with him but paired

1:05:39

then makes it a meaningful conversation for us.

1:05:41

There you go. It's called paired It's an

1:05:44

app for couples who want to strengthen their

1:05:46

relationship You and

1:05:48

your partner download the app you

1:05:50

pair together and every day paired

1:05:52

gives you questions Quizzes and games

1:05:54

to have fun stay connected and

1:05:56

deepen your conversations. It's simple and

1:05:58

often hilarious each day you get a

1:06:00

quiz to play or a question to answer and

1:06:02

you can't see your partner's answer until you answer

1:06:04

yourself, which also, I'm not gonna lie, it makes

1:06:06

me choose different questions because I'm like, well, I

1:06:09

want to know about me. It's

1:06:13

good if you're, if you got a healthy competitive

1:06:15

streak in your like, all right, well

1:06:17

now I've got to answer this because I got to see

1:06:19

what they said. Exactly. Whether

1:06:23

you're just a few dates in or you've

1:06:25

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1:06:29

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1:06:31

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1:06:37

and 25% off if you sign up for

1:06:41

a subscription. Just head

1:06:43

to paired.com/creepy to sign

1:06:45

up today. Mark

1:06:48

acknowledged that the writing resembled his own,

1:06:50

but he denied creating it. The

1:06:53

book also noted that two messages were

1:06:55

supposedly left on blank doodle boards

1:06:57

while Darren and Mike were present. This

1:07:00

led them to conclude that even if

1:07:02

Mark had faked some of the messages,

1:07:04

not all of them could be considered

1:07:06

fraudulent. Well

1:07:08

it's the same thing with the stuffed animals. I

1:07:11

mean, if you, even if like, if

1:07:14

you know that he's faking

1:07:16

some of them, doesn't that

1:07:19

kind of erase all credibility? Wouldn't you

1:07:21

be like, I mean, yeah. It

1:07:23

is possible that he's not faking some

1:07:25

of them, but is it likely? I

1:07:27

don't think so. No, I mean,

1:07:30

it's like why you tell a jury when a

1:07:32

witness is on the stand and you bring in

1:07:34

impeachment evidence and you go, okay, Ms. Wallace, you

1:07:36

said on this date at this time you were

1:07:38

here. Here's evidence that you weren't here. And you're

1:07:40

like, well, yeah, I didn't want anybody to know, you

1:07:42

know, I was at a strip club or whatever.

1:07:45

I didn't want anybody to know. So I said

1:07:47

I was at church. I did lie about that.

1:07:49

I like that strip club was where you first,

1:07:51

I've been at a strip club. I was

1:07:54

like, why wouldn't you want to tell anyone? And

1:07:56

recently I was trying to think of this old steakhouse we went to as

1:07:58

a kid and I was like, is that so? around it's not

1:08:00

it's the spearmint rhino in Dallas RIP

1:08:03

old different dishes

1:08:06

on the menu now yeah yeah they used to

1:08:08

have a cart of cheese if they brought that

1:08:10

back I might go to the spirit rhino but

1:08:12

I love cheese but I also

1:08:18

love not getting bacteria on my teeth

1:08:20

but the but the question would be

1:08:22

like will you lied about your location and you're

1:08:25

like okay well yes I lied about that but

1:08:27

it's only because I was embarrassed but I really

1:08:29

did see the the defendant you know running out

1:08:31

of the bank with the money in his hand

1:08:33

and then the defense attorney of course is gonna

1:08:35

go well she's willing to lie to you about that

1:08:37

mm-hmm why wouldn't she be willing to lie to you

1:08:39

about my client well it's up to

1:08:42

the jury to decide and I just think

1:08:44

like most rational people though

1:08:46

you're exactly like what you're

1:08:48

saying where it's like well

1:08:50

perhaps he faked 11 out of the 13

1:08:53

messages but those other two we didn't and it's

1:08:55

like well that's a really bad batting average guys

1:08:57

yeah yeah the ghost is like I've

1:08:59

got something to say put the fucking pin down

1:09:02

marks like hang on I'm gonna write

1:09:04

baby people gotta know about Beyonce oh

1:09:08

man yeah honestly when you were describing

1:09:10

all of that it reminded me of

1:09:12

the Murdoch trial yeah like he all

1:09:15

of his lies came out on the

1:09:17

stand and that's exactly what the prosecution

1:09:19

did was like how can you believe

1:09:21

anything this man says when he's now

1:09:23

admitting yeah he lied about something that

1:09:25

when previously asked he said no absolutely

1:09:27

that's true then he fucking got caught and

1:09:29

then he had to admit it so like once

1:09:33

once it comes out that you're lying about

1:09:35

a situation that you're trying to get

1:09:38

everyone to take seriously I just

1:09:40

I'm like fuck off

1:09:42

like why you know what I mean

1:09:45

like it's because some people are really

1:09:47

struggling with stuff like this and you

1:09:49

kind of muddy the waters to everyone

1:09:51

and make it kind of

1:09:53

seem like you know a joke a

1:09:55

joke science a joke thing that happens when

1:09:57

you're like well yeah I I

1:10:00

did hang the tiger out of the window,

1:10:03

but I did not put the razor blade

1:10:05

in the bunny's hand, okay? And it's like

1:10:08

we're splitting hairs here, man. It's all shenanigans

1:10:10

like yeah talking about yeah It's really literally

1:10:12

the second they said we sent the handwriting

1:10:14

off I was like okay This is some

1:10:17

like ghost guild level like we're doing some

1:10:19

like real research and they're like in our

1:10:21

conclusion was clearly it wasn't him I

1:10:23

was like what yeah, yeah,

1:10:26

and that's again. You're kind of making the Evidence

1:10:29

fit what you want the conclusion to

1:10:31

be and not the other way around

1:10:33

it can't all be a t-rex guys

1:10:35

I'm sorry. No can't no

1:10:37

and honestly if it had

1:10:39

all been t-rex is a Lot

1:10:42

of stuff we have today. We wouldn't have you guys

1:10:44

exactly you're welcome T

1:10:48

I I know so much about dina. I'm

1:10:50

not trying to brag, but I know a

1:10:52

lot about dinosaurs I read dinosaurs a to

1:10:55

Z every night, so saying

1:10:57

I know a lot about dinosaurs and Everyone's

1:11:00

scared of the t-rex because yes He

1:11:03

was huge and had a gazillion teeth

1:11:05

and stuff But really

1:11:07

there was a lot more other ones that you should

1:11:10

be more scared of I feel like anything

1:11:12

That's like my height It's like ready to take

1:11:14

me like when we were talking about that judge

1:11:16

Kristie thing with the chimp fight It's like when

1:11:18

they're the same size as you but more like

1:11:20

but way stronger that's my factor Yeah,

1:11:22

your exes were slow and also like

1:11:25

when something's that you're coming They

1:11:28

had the mighty fall, but like something like

1:11:30

a velociraptor like coming at you now You

1:11:32

don't see any chance mmm razor sharp claws get

1:11:34

out of here sharper than a bunny

1:11:41

Man I Honestly,

1:11:44

I'm like You're

1:11:47

doing too much mark like if you had

1:11:49

it back some it's like Accessorizing outfit look

1:11:51

in the mirror take away two things and

1:11:53

then leave you know what I mean You

1:11:56

don't want to overdo it, and I feel

1:11:58

like he's doing he's so excellent with

1:12:00

this that he's lost me. No,

1:12:03

I mean, and you, your assessment,

1:12:05

I don't think it's too far off from

1:12:08

what Dana White, the graphologist in the UK

1:12:10

said, whoever wrote this is in distress, has

1:12:12

a strong desire to be noticed and has

1:12:14

a disturbed mind. And it's like, well,

1:12:17

those are the markers of a person that would

1:12:19

fake all this. Right. And that's where it legitimately,

1:12:22

I would be worried because someone

1:12:25

like that sounds like they're not doing so great

1:12:27

and might need some help, but also if you

1:12:31

are wanting to be noticed and you have a

1:12:33

disturbed mind, you might keep the fact that you

1:12:36

are the one orchestrating all of this from your

1:12:38

partner and your child. The

1:12:42

spirit also communicated in more modern ways.

1:12:44

When the couple was away from the

1:12:46

house, they sometimes received calls on their

1:12:48

mobile phones from their home number at

1:12:50

times when no one was in the

1:12:53

house. When Mark or Marianne

1:12:55

answered, the line would be dead. Once

1:12:58

when Darren and Mike were present, Marianne's

1:13:00

cell phone rang. It was

1:13:02

Mark's phone calling, though he was present in

1:13:04

the room without his cell phone. Mark

1:13:07

claimed his phone had disappeared. So Marianne

1:13:09

called to try and find it. Her

1:13:12

screen read phone busy, meaning

1:13:14

Mark's phone was in use somewhere. Then

1:13:17

the landline rang with the call

1:13:20

coming from Mark's number. It

1:13:22

was an automated message repeating only one

1:13:24

word. Hi, hi,

1:13:26

hi, hi, hi, hi, hi. The

1:13:31

thing about phone stuff is that

1:13:33

when we covered that Washington phone

1:13:35

call scam, not scam, Washington phone

1:13:37

call like stalker where that person,

1:13:39

all those weird messages and texts

1:13:41

and stuff were coming from, it

1:13:43

looked like the victim's phone was

1:13:45

sending themselves messages or their family

1:13:47

members messages. And in that

1:13:49

case, they had actual police officers going like well,

1:13:51

this was back in

1:13:53

the early 2000s, when phones first came out,

1:13:56

there were ways that you could fuck around

1:13:58

with people with them with websites. to

1:14:00

either do automated phone calls, automated

1:14:02

texts, or delayed calls,

1:14:04

having a number spoofing. So,

1:14:06

you know, really, I

1:14:08

don't think I ever did any of that. Oh,

1:14:11

I fucked with people, man. Yeah, what it was

1:14:13

like, you would go to like a website

1:14:15

and just enter their number and then it

1:14:17

would call them. Yeah, so you can there.

1:14:19

I definitely remember one that you could enter

1:14:21

whatever like if I was wanting

1:14:23

to send a message from you from this

1:14:25

website, I don't have to, you know,

1:14:27

prove that it's me, I could just type in, you know,

1:14:30

my phone number 214-555-1234. I just punched that

1:14:34

number in and then you get a message and if my

1:14:36

number is saved in your phone, it would say, Heather messaged

1:14:38

you. Well, I can also using the same

1:14:41

website, I could just do 214-555-6789 and

1:14:45

then send you a message like you're gonna die in seven

1:14:48

days and then you go, Heather, do you know this number?

1:14:50

It says it's 555-6789. Like

1:14:52

I just got this message. I could have sent

1:14:54

the same thing from the same website. But I

1:14:56

was it's just like who back

1:14:58

then we're like, well, people aren't gonna lie

1:15:00

about who's messaging and it's like immediately they

1:15:02

will. That's what it's going to be used

1:15:04

for for abusive people, mostly probably then people

1:15:06

faking shit like this kids, pranking each other,

1:15:09

you know, whatever it scams.

1:15:11

Yeah, scamming. Yeah, you know, this is the government. The

1:15:13

USPS has a package for you like I have to

1:15:16

use it in your credit card. That's wild if that

1:15:18

was even possible because

1:15:20

it is so violating and could be

1:15:22

misused in so many abusive ways. Yeah,

1:15:24

it's really funny. And it makes me

1:15:26

worried about you know, really worried. But

1:15:28

like it's sure I'm seeing the same

1:15:30

progression with AI that I remember seeing

1:15:32

in the early 2000s with like watching

1:15:35

the development of the internet as a as a heavy

1:15:37

user of the internet back then, because there was a

1:15:40

ton of stuff that we were like, we shouldn't

1:15:42

be we shouldn't be able to do this. Right.

1:15:44

This is way too loose. And then we got

1:15:46

more and more restrictions and blockages and da da

1:15:48

da da. And I think it's kind of the same

1:15:51

way we're going with like AI and that type of

1:15:53

computing where we're like, he shouldn't just be able to

1:15:55

like, fake an interview with the president where he can

1:15:57

just be like, I'm gonna nuke whatever. And then The

1:16:00

stock market crashes because we have this video that looks like

1:16:02

Joe Biden is saying, you know, he's going to do more

1:16:04

powerful things than has already been done. So

1:16:06

that's the concern I think is that for

1:16:09

you to go, oh, well, the cell phone just did

1:16:11

it on its own. The ghost must have just used

1:16:13

cell phones. Yeah. Or did Ian

1:16:15

know this website? I was going to

1:16:18

say, um, Ian might be involved since

1:16:20

he seems like he's kind of, he doesn't

1:16:22

take it too seriously. Or like you said,

1:16:24

Mark uses the cell phone and then just

1:16:27

goes and hides his or Mark

1:16:29

uses the website and then goes and hides the cell phone

1:16:31

somewhere. And then all of a sudden you said, I don't

1:16:33

have it. And then Mary Ann

1:16:35

is like, none the fucking wiser. No, and

1:16:37

maybe she knows all of it, you know,

1:16:39

in my head for some reason she doesn't.

1:16:42

But again, I, this is just all speculation.

1:16:44

No, and you're right. Cause in one situation

1:16:46

they said, Oh, well his phone was there

1:16:48

and then his phone said the message was

1:16:50

sent at one time and her phone said

1:16:52

it, the message was sent two minutes later.

1:16:55

And I'm like, Oh, interesting. A delay. Like,

1:16:57

well what happened if you sent it through the internet?

1:16:59

So they sort of went anyway, it was crazy. All

1:17:01

those things with the phones versus going,

1:17:04

okay. So then we went and talked to

1:17:06

an investigator with the police department. We pulled

1:17:08

all the phone records. We called in experts

1:17:10

from the phone company. It was just like,

1:17:12

God damn it. The ghost can text. Yeah.

1:17:14

Yeah. That's what we're

1:17:17

jumping to. Yeah. I

1:17:19

don't, I don't claim to know, um, anything

1:17:22

about what ghosts can do. It

1:17:25

is interesting though, that we've gone from

1:17:27

communicating on a Magna doodle board to

1:17:29

now this is a

1:17:31

hacker and can also manipulate a

1:17:33

landline and a cell phone. Yes.

1:17:37

So a lot of different things that this

1:17:40

entity can do. And, uh,

1:17:42

it just, again,

1:17:45

the fact that like so

1:17:47

much stuff happened and it could

1:17:49

easily be followed up with pulling

1:17:52

from. If this was a murder

1:17:54

case, all of that would be pulled.

1:17:56

I mean, obviously the stakes aren't nearly as

1:17:59

high in the internet. this isn't there because it's not,

1:18:01

but like you could if

1:18:03

you wanted to still investigate it like

1:18:05

that and get all the information and

1:18:07

like follow this up. Like you could

1:18:10

easily be proved or disproven. Yeah,

1:18:12

no, that's what it feels like is this

1:18:14

again, we've been spoiled by the ghost guild

1:18:16

and by now our opinion

1:18:18

of stuff of like these things are possible,

1:18:21

but we are we believe so much that

1:18:23

we want like real evidence and not well,

1:18:25

we'll just I'll just take whatever delusion you want

1:18:27

to feed me and go, well, let me texting me now.

1:18:31

In addition to other automated calls saying

1:18:33

things like, hello, and sorry.

1:18:39

Marianne also received texts from the

1:18:41

poltergeist supposedly using Mark's

1:18:43

phone. One message read,

1:18:46

get you bitch, though bitch

1:18:48

was misspelled missing the T. The

1:18:51

couple claimed to have taken the

1:18:53

battery out of Mark's phone, but

1:18:55

Marianne still received another text two

1:18:57

minutes later reading, you're dead.

1:19:00

Again you don't have to have a phone on

1:19:02

to send a text in the early 2000s in

1:19:05

my experience. So when they were like the battery

1:19:07

was out, it was impossible. I'm like, okay,

1:19:09

again, did you check the actual

1:19:12

not just your phone bill, but you call the phone

1:19:14

company and go I need you to trace this text

1:19:16

message. No, it's just like she received

1:19:18

it. So it must have been the poltergeist.

1:19:20

Yeah, a lot

1:19:22

of everyone taking things that people's word

1:19:24

as the

1:19:27

name calling and threatening text messages

1:19:29

increased. Mark and Marianne started

1:19:31

turning off all their electronic devices at

1:19:33

night. The alleged paranormal

1:19:35

events had started when new electrical

1:19:37

devices had been introduced into the

1:19:40

home. So it stood to reason

1:19:42

they may stop if turned off. Slowly

1:19:45

the terrifying events tapered off, eventually

1:19:48

disappearing altogether. And

1:19:51

that's interesting. People were like, turn

1:19:53

off your phone and now it's done. We

1:19:55

have a healthy night time routine where we

1:19:57

turn all the electronics out and you're like,

1:19:59

yeah. I'm sure you do. Honestly, you should.

1:20:01

Yeah, cut out screen time for

1:20:03

this. It really struck me that it ended a

1:20:06

bit with a whimper than a bang. No, not

1:20:08

that I want like and then the house caught

1:20:10

fire and everyone I don't want that at all

1:20:12

Let me just be clear but that it was

1:20:14

like well They decided to turn things off and

1:20:16

one weird thing kind of happened at work where

1:20:18

some plates moved around But other than that that

1:20:20

was it. Anyway, we wrote this book. I was

1:20:22

like wait what? Yeah, it it definitely I

1:20:28

Was like oh it's over like

1:20:30

there wasn't you know, like yeah

1:20:32

had a exorcism or there was a big

1:20:35

You know cleansing I mean they did do

1:20:37

some sage cleansing and stuff but that

1:20:40

it was all tied to just these electronic

1:20:42

devices When that

1:20:44

isn't everything they reported. No,

1:20:46

no, I mean Yeah,

1:20:49

what about what about? Ratty

1:20:52

what would we call him the the

1:20:54

savvy Ravi savvy? What about savvy Ravi?

1:20:58

What about the furniture be it what the metal

1:21:00

doodle you can't turn that off No

1:21:03

savvy Ravi and Tigger went to stuffy jail for

1:21:05

a stall. Oh the deadly you can't come miss

1:21:07

somebody with that No,

1:21:11

but you're right, I guess it just all Or

1:21:14

do you say well, I'll save it for so what

1:21:16

do we think? But yes, apparently you just turn it

1:21:18

off turn off turn it off again. Just keep it

1:21:20

off sometimes. Yeah, it's just a

1:21:22

restart That's all you need Dared

1:21:26

and Michael set about writing a book to

1:21:28

document their experiences Mark

1:21:30

and Marianne requested their names not be

1:21:33

used so the pseudonyms were used instead

1:21:36

Their real names were only revealed once in

1:21:38

a magazine article. However, because

1:21:40

of their requests the book

1:21:42

maintains their anonymity Wanting

1:21:45

to ensure their work was airtight Darren

1:21:48

contacted noted paranormal investigator guy

1:21:50

lion play fair of the

1:21:52

Society for cyclical research or

1:21:54

SPR To review

1:21:56

the findings play fair had

1:21:59

investigated the infield Poltergeist, a

1:22:01

famous case from the 1970s. Playfair

1:22:03

provided an introduction for the book, in

1:22:06

which he called it, a

1:22:08

welcome addition to the literature on one of

1:22:10

the most bewildering phenomena we are ever likely

1:22:12

to come across. Darrin

1:22:14

and Michael's book The Sileshield's Poltergeist

1:22:17

was originally published in 2008. An

1:22:20

updated version in 2010 included an

1:22:22

introduction by Alan Murty, a barrister

1:22:24

and ghost investigator for the College

1:22:27

of Psychic Studies. Murty

1:22:29

inspected the case files and data,

1:22:31

including the over 450 photographs and

1:22:34

other evidence. In his

1:22:36

preface for the book, Murty stated that

1:22:38

the supporting evidence here matches

1:22:40

or exceeds the evidence accumulated in

1:22:42

many civil and criminal proceedings. Aspurred

1:22:46

by other developments in the Poltergeist research

1:22:48

field, Murty concluded that

1:22:50

genuine psychokinetic incidents occurred at

1:22:52

Lock Street, just as the

1:22:54

authors described them. Well, how

1:22:58

do you feel about being

1:23:00

compared to civil and criminal proceedings?

1:23:03

I'll say first of all, nice to meet you, Mr.

1:23:05

Murty. It's not often I find somebody who's also a lawyer

1:23:08

and a ghost hunter. So I'd like

1:23:10

to say, tip my hat to you. How do you do? Here's the thing,

1:23:15

a lot of cases have a lot of

1:23:17

evidence. A lot of evidence

1:23:19

doesn't necessarily mean it is high quality

1:23:21

evidence. So he says,

1:23:23

again, let's be sticklers about it,

1:23:26

that the evidence here matches or

1:23:28

exceeds the evidence accumulated in many civil

1:23:30

or criminal proceedings. So just because you

1:23:32

took pictures of a bunny sitting in

1:23:34

a chair, 450 pictures of a bunny

1:23:37

sitting in a chair, 13

1:23:42

pictures of this Magna Doodles, whatever, the

1:23:44

figurine at the top of the stairs

1:23:46

when it's normally on the bookshelf or

1:23:48

whatever. Okay, super duper.

1:23:51

I've got a detached horse's head

1:23:53

in my office right now. Big

1:23:55

old blue, big old blue

1:23:57

horse's head. And it's like this there

1:23:59

if I'm I can't take a picture

1:24:01

and go, this horse's head has moved to

1:24:03

the ground and there's a photo of it.

1:24:05

You know, it doesn't, it's not saying things

1:24:07

in the way that like, I think Alan

1:24:09

Murti is thinking that it's saying things. And

1:24:12

you know, I'm not an investigator for the

1:24:14

College of Psychic Studies. So maybe he knows

1:24:16

better than me. But I would caution

1:24:19

anyone to say there's so much

1:24:22

quantity of evidence versus a quality

1:24:24

of evidence. Alec Murdoch had

1:24:26

a ton, speaking of which, I think we'll talk about

1:24:28

him a little bit more next week as well. I've been like, it's

1:24:30

Murdoch all over again. But Alec

1:24:32

Murdoch had a ton of what he

1:24:34

thought would be like helpful evidence to

1:24:37

himself. And it's not helpful at all.

1:24:39

And for the jury, they needed like four

1:24:41

things. You know, everything was helpful

1:24:43

and whatever. But when you talk to jurors, I'm

1:24:45

pretty sure they're going to go. It was the

1:24:47

Snapchat video. It was the tire

1:24:49

treads. It was yada, you know, him changing

1:24:52

clothes and the timeline. It's like four things.

1:24:54

Lying repeatedly. Then

1:24:56

he lied to our face like six times and then

1:24:58

had to come back and go, listen, you know, I

1:25:00

lied earlier. I didn't mean it. But so just because

1:25:02

his attorneys, Alec Murdoch's attorneys are going to put in

1:25:04

like a fucking wheelbarrow full of papers, the

1:25:07

papers don't say that doesn't necessarily mean he's innocent. It

1:25:09

means they like made a lot of copies of stuff.

1:25:11

I don't know. Yeah. Like

1:25:14

you said, quality over quantity for sure. Certainly.

1:25:17

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1:26:27

after reviewing the case. In

1:26:29

it, the authors concluded that while there

1:26:32

may have been some anomalous phenomena at

1:26:35

first, Mark's

1:26:37

anxious state could have caused him to,

1:26:39

unconsciously and later consciously, produce

1:26:43

an imitative array of events to

1:26:45

sustain the incidence of

1:26:47

the supposed haunting. The

1:26:49

review suggested that this could explain

1:26:51

why data in this case, particularly

1:26:53

relating to Mark, resemble data from

1:26:56

other cases where people fabricated stories

1:26:58

of paranormal activity. And

1:27:00

they kind of, it's an interesting report, and we have

1:27:02

it linked here, and it's cool that it came out

1:27:04

in like the last couple years, but they

1:27:07

have a kind

1:27:09

of a matrix of different

1:27:11

types of, I'm

1:27:13

trying to think of the right way to say it, because they put

1:27:15

it in very esoteric and kind of

1:27:18

academic language, which is great, because that's what

1:27:20

you want when someone's really going to like look into this. And

1:27:23

the parallels they draw were like

1:27:25

certain things he described are similar

1:27:27

to other incidents where people like

1:27:29

made it completely made it up.

1:27:32

And then other things he described are

1:27:34

similar to certain incidents where people were

1:27:37

asked, Hey, make up a

1:27:39

fake story about a person being haunted.

1:27:42

And so it has these certain similar

1:27:44

elements. And then a portion of it

1:27:46

was similar to, again, nobody has

1:27:48

said, there's definitely a poltergeist but in cases, like

1:27:50

we said, where you go, something unexplained happened here,

1:27:53

we're still trying to explain it, we're looking into

1:27:55

it, we don't know. And so two

1:27:58

out of three being in. this is

1:28:00

similar to this kind of made up thing and this is similar to this

1:28:02

kind of made up thing. I was like, this was not like the whole,

1:28:04

well, we have been vindicated. Like Society

1:28:07

of Psychical Research said, we are perfect

1:28:09

geniuses and this was amazing. It goes

1:28:11

through and it says, there's evidence that

1:28:13

this is not explained, but something

1:28:16

that we can't look away from is

1:28:18

the handwriting analysis and

1:28:20

the fact that it was his handwriting and then

1:28:22

also some of the things that he described sort

1:28:24

of fit the mold for making it up.

1:28:26

Yeah, and he also admitted to making at

1:28:28

least one thing up. At least part of

1:28:30

it. He of course he backtracked, but was

1:28:34

that true or you know? That's

1:28:36

the thing. When you

1:28:38

lie, people don't know what

1:28:40

they can trust anymore. So just always tell

1:28:42

the truth because even if you lie

1:28:45

to Mary Ann, well one, now you've lied to her

1:28:47

and so you've got to retrace

1:28:49

your steps and then tell a

1:28:51

different story to the investigators, well

1:28:53

now me, I'm like, I

1:28:56

don't know which one's the truth because you've shown that

1:28:58

you can lie. So I don't know if I

1:29:01

can believe anything you're saying. Yeah, especially when

1:29:03

he so quickly was like, oh no, no,

1:29:05

no, that wasn't the ghost, that was me.

1:29:07

And then later on to then say, well

1:29:09

actually it was the ghost, it wasn't me. And

1:29:12

it's like, well now you're telling two stories, but he

1:29:14

said, and make sure you don't tell her that

1:29:16

it is the ghost. The researchers are like, well,

1:29:18

I might use that term loosely, but the gentleman on

1:29:20

site were like, well, I don't know, we kind of

1:29:23

got to tell her, it's her house, her kid. So

1:29:25

yeah, you create a huge just like mud, you just

1:29:27

muddy the water. In

1:29:30

the latter editions of the book, Michael

1:29:33

J. Hollowell had his name removed as

1:29:35

co-author. The author's note in the 2024 edition

1:29:37

of the book explains

1:29:39

that Michael retired from paranormal investigations

1:29:41

due to ill health and

1:29:44

he asked for his name to be removed from

1:29:46

the book due to a change in religious faith

1:29:48

around 2014. Darren

1:29:50

respected his decision and is now listed

1:29:52

as the only author. The

1:29:56

author's note from Darren explains the authorship

1:29:58

change saying, for

1:30:00

reasons that were pertinent to him that he no

1:30:02

longer wanted to share the byline. It

1:30:04

is as simple as that, and it is the

1:30:06

decision that I accept and respect." Well,

1:30:10

this is an interesting development. Yeah,

1:30:13

and it's funny because the quote I

1:30:15

was reading earlier from the Fortiana Forum

1:30:17

was from Michael Halliwell in 2008. He

1:30:20

was like vehemently defending this in

1:30:22

forums, like getting into fights on

1:30:25

ghost forums, like taking people's

1:30:27

comments piece by piece and

1:30:29

point by point addressing them and saying,

1:30:32

I've tried, I've had

1:30:34

all these attacks on me and nasty people

1:30:37

and snarky asides are just going to be

1:30:39

ignored and we know what we can do. He's going to email me. Who?

1:30:42

Oh, Michael Halliwell? He's emailing nasty. Well, this

1:30:44

was remarks and snide remarks.

1:30:46

But I'm saying this

1:30:49

was back in 2008 that he was so defending

1:30:51

it, well then in 2014 he's

1:30:53

like, take my name off that book. And

1:30:55

now you're like, well, why? Religion?

1:30:58

I'm like religion that thou shall not lie. That's kind

1:31:00

of like the first one. Oh, maybe. I

1:31:02

was thinking maybe whatever religion, he

1:31:06

didn't want to be fucking with like potentially

1:31:08

the dark side or the paranormal

1:31:10

or something like that. Yeah, but that could

1:31:12

be it too. Or didn't

1:31:15

want his name associated with something he didn't believe

1:31:17

in anymore, maybe? Yeah, yeah. Or yeah, you

1:31:19

see something here, something and kind of go,

1:31:23

oh shit, we did get taken for a

1:31:25

ride and I would like to admit it

1:31:27

and the other person's like, I don't. And it's

1:31:29

like, okay, well, I'll just leave then like, just take

1:31:31

my name off of it. I don't care. Well,

1:31:33

the sad thing is, is like, well, you can't like

1:31:35

take your name off. It's like Google is forever. Like

1:31:37

we will, even though your name's not on the book,

1:31:40

when you're like, who investigated this? The

1:31:42

Society of Psychical Research thing was in

1:31:45

2022 or whatever, 2023, his name is his full

1:31:47

name is in there. Yeah. You're still

1:31:49

part of it. But he was all doing like speeches on this,

1:31:51

at least as I was like, oh, eight. So

1:31:53

something happened between 08 and 2014. And

1:31:56

he was like, I don't fuck with that no more.

1:31:58

He had a spiritual awakening of some. Those

1:32:02

who believe recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis,

1:32:04

or RSPK, is involved point

1:32:06

to boyfriend and homeowner Mark

1:32:08

as the psychic center for

1:32:10

the poltergeist activity. In

1:32:13

this theory, the polt is a

1:32:15

form of negative energy feeding on

1:32:17

the family, generated subconsciously by Mark.

1:32:20

He would not be aware that he was generating

1:32:22

the activity, and would not be able to control

1:32:24

the energy. The incidents would

1:32:26

not have been caused by a sentient

1:32:29

source, but rather by bursts of psychic

1:32:31

energy from Mark's mind. Initially,

1:32:34

Halliwell believed Sammy was what

1:32:36

he likes to call a

1:32:38

quasi-corporeal companion, or QCC, a

1:32:41

term he prefers to imaginary friend. He

1:32:44

later changed his mind, telling Colorado

1:32:47

Paranormal, The bottom line is

1:32:49

that I was wrong, and now I'm convinced

1:32:51

that this poltergeist was masquerading as a QCC

1:32:53

simply to fool me, which it did. Poltergeists

1:32:56

aren't devious in cunning, and I think it

1:32:58

was simply presenting itself to me in a

1:33:00

way that would excite my preconceived opinions. It

1:33:02

worked like a charm, and I fell for

1:33:04

it hook, line, and sinker. Halliwell

1:33:07

went on to say, I do

1:33:09

believe, however, that there may have been other

1:33:11

entities in the house that were drawn there

1:33:13

by the polt presence. How many? I

1:33:15

can't say. Of course,

1:33:18

no ghost story would be complete without its

1:33:20

fair share of skeptics. Those

1:33:22

that believe the whole thing to be

1:33:24

a hoax say the more likely explanation

1:33:26

is that the spooky events were fabricated

1:33:29

by Mark, Mary Ann, Ian, Darren, and

1:33:31

or Mike are a combination of some or

1:33:33

all of the people involved. Non-believers

1:33:37

point to the handwriting analysis and

1:33:39

evidence conveniently being erased from phones

1:33:41

and cameras as some of the

1:33:43

major holes in the story. There

1:33:47

is no way to definitively prove

1:33:49

whether the activities on Lock Street

1:33:51

can be chalked up to a

1:33:53

quasi-corporeal entity, a poltergeist in its

1:33:56

accompanying spirits, the psychokinetic energy of

1:33:58

an upset man, or a or

1:34:00

old-fashioned fraud. With the

1:34:03

extensive case files and data supporting the

1:34:05

account of anomalous events, many

1:34:07

are willing to call the South Shields

1:34:09

case the most likely paranormal event of

1:34:11

the modern day. Darren

1:34:14

Ritsen's files are backed by the

1:34:16

accumulated videotape footage, recorded interviews, audio

1:34:19

tape recordings, and over 500 digital

1:34:22

still photographs of displaced

1:34:24

objects, cuts, scratches, and

1:34:26

other phenomena. He has

1:34:28

made the files and data

1:34:30

available for independent third-party verification,

1:34:32

which has been reviewed by

1:34:34

Alan Murti and Guy Lyon-Playfair.

1:34:38

Darren Ritsen and Mike Halliwell, the

1:34:40

two researchers who documented the South

1:34:42

Shields poltergeist firsthand, wrote in

1:34:44

their book that they had no interest

1:34:46

in converting skeptics who doubt what happened

1:34:48

at the little house on Lock Street. Rather,

1:34:51

they said, people will simply have

1:34:53

to make up their own minds on the basis

1:34:55

of the evidence. Well,

1:34:58

on that note, so what do we think? Well,

1:35:01

that's exactly the kind of thing you say to

1:35:03

a jury. You just make your own mind up.

1:35:06

We have more evidence than they

1:35:08

do. And it's like, all right,

1:35:10

well, yeah, they have like the

1:35:12

best evidence. Like facts and stuff.

1:35:14

Yeah, really, honestly, this bummed me

1:35:16

out. The

1:35:18

episode was fun. I always have fun having an episode

1:35:20

with you. And I'm super glad we looked at it

1:35:22

because it's one of those that I've heard in the

1:35:24

background and stuff like that. And as you and I

1:35:26

get more into legitimate paranormal

1:35:29

investigation, I think as looking

1:35:32

into anomalous entities of all ilk, whether

1:35:35

it's this Rear Admiral on NBC

1:35:37

talking about there are underwater submersible

1:35:39

objects, I worked there. I was the

1:35:41

main weather guy for NOAA, and I like know for

1:35:43

a fact that's there, and they just don't want to

1:35:46

tell you about it. When we're getting into a place

1:35:48

where we as a society are

1:35:50

moving towards, like the Vatican created parameters

1:35:52

on what to do if you have paranormal interactions

1:35:55

like in the church, like it's something

1:35:57

that we're all looking to look into

1:35:59

and investigate. I think the more we

1:36:01

do that the harder we have to be

1:36:03

on the evidence and really vet everything

1:36:06

that comes through because Going

1:36:09

like do you want to know

1:36:11

my favorite paranormal case? It's so amazing It's called

1:36:13

the South Shields poltergeist If you give this book

1:36:15

to a rational person who's got two brain cells

1:36:17

to rub together They're like this is a fucking

1:36:20

joke like what is it's like What did you

1:36:22

give me and so I felt really guilty and

1:36:24

I kept being like am I missing is this

1:36:26

the right book? Something

1:36:29

because it had become this kind of

1:36:31

legendary Yeah, and anytime something kind

1:36:33

of grows that legendary status. You got to go.

1:36:35

Let's take the clothes off Look at just the

1:36:37

bones here and it's just like oh, there's nothing

1:36:40

like I won't say there's nothing there But

1:36:42

them really hang in their hat on this

1:36:44

like there's footage of this water bottle. Here's

1:36:46

a still image of it There's footage of

1:36:48

the chair moving Here's a still image of

1:36:50

it and to kind of like sit on

1:36:52

it and hold it because maybe you want

1:36:54

to make a documentary It makes everybody think

1:36:56

that you're money-grubbing liars, you know, you might

1:36:58

not be any Liers, but it certainly makes

1:37:00

you look like that to go Well, I

1:37:02

very very good evidence But I'm not gonna

1:37:04

show you until I have a book deal

1:37:06

and get money from it And to be

1:37:08

fair we get paid to a paranormal shit

1:37:10

all the time But if I had like

1:37:12

a legitimate I put that shit on a

1:37:15

billboard. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'd go I'd go

1:37:17

live right on TikTok. Yeah, also Mark

1:37:20

and Marianne or whatever whoever they really are.

1:37:22

I mean they could also do I

1:37:25

mean, they got the evidence too I hope

1:37:27

that they have copies of it But

1:37:30

what makes I also was

1:37:32

very surprised that this is so revered

1:37:34

in the paranormal World

1:37:36

and maybe we'll hear from people that

1:37:38

like honestly now it's not so much because

1:37:40

you know things have come out more but

1:37:44

For being like this is one

1:37:46

of the best cases for paranormal

1:37:48

proof there's really

1:37:50

not a lot of proof. It's a lot

1:37:52

of talk and a lot of diary entries

1:37:54

and and You

1:37:56

know their story, but there's not

1:37:59

actual proof of anything. But

1:38:02

what I see kind of

1:38:04

is proven throughout. And

1:38:07

some might say, well, it wasn't him.

1:38:09

It was the poltergeist. It

1:38:12

seems to me like Marcus kind of pulling one

1:38:14

over on everybody, maybe with

1:38:16

the help of Ian and Marianne's

1:38:19

kind of, you know, the victim in all of this.

1:38:21

And if that is the case, and

1:38:23

she really does think her child is in

1:38:25

danger, she's in danger. You

1:38:28

know, I mean, that's really sad. And that

1:38:31

is, you know, abusive, like that's spiritual

1:38:33

abuse. And, you know, something like this,

1:38:35

any type of something where you instill

1:38:38

fear and paranoia in somebody and

1:38:40

you're lying and gaslighting them, then,

1:38:42

you know, I there's

1:38:45

a lot of red flags there. Again,

1:38:47

terrorism. Going on record saying I don't

1:38:49

know that that's what happened. That's just

1:38:51

speculation. But maybe again, because we have

1:38:53

been doing this a long time, and

1:38:55

I do see things through a different

1:38:57

lens now. That's kind of

1:38:59

where, unfortunately, and maybe sadly, my

1:39:01

mind goes first. Is it like

1:39:04

this woman was kind of being

1:39:07

taken advantage of in her own home, as

1:39:09

was this child? Yeah, right.

1:39:12

Perhaps a mentally unwell person,

1:39:14

perhaps someone that is just

1:39:18

wants attention. And this is the way to

1:39:20

go about getting it in their opinion. But

1:39:23

I think Marianne might not know what

1:39:25

really went on. And Robert's

1:39:28

three, so I take him out of