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1:05

A bump in the night,

1:07

your heart fills with dread, probably

1:10

a murder or who wants you dead.

1:13

It could be a ghost, a demon,

1:15

or worse. Perhaps you're the victim

1:18

of a witch's curse. It's

1:20

hopeless, you're doomed, you'd call a priest

1:22

if you could. You'd rather just

1:25

listen to who? Sinisterhood.

1:35

I'm gonna kill you.

1:37

Hello and welcome to Freaky Friday,

1:39

where we tell your odd but true stories.

1:41

Today is Friday, September 29th, and

1:44

this week the stories are

1:46

all around the central theme of the episode

1:48

we covered this week, Jehovah's Witnesses.

1:52

We've received

1:53

countless emails

1:58

of all kinds to do our everybody

2:00

justice. We wanted to be able to get as many

2:02

stories heard as possible.

2:05

So we have

2:07

eight this week.

2:09

We have even more. We

2:12

had to narrow it down. We might even do

2:14

another one next week. I'm telling

2:16

you, if you are

2:19

a

2:20

the

2:21

disfellowshipped JW

2:24

or just someone who ghosted

2:26

it or whatever, a survivor of some sort,

2:29

there are so many of you and you all

2:32

have almost word for word

2:35

the same story about

2:37

your childhood and just how horrible it

2:39

was to grow up in something like this.

2:42

So all that to say, the

2:45

silver lining is there is a huge community

2:47

of people out there that have gone through exactly

2:50

what you're going through and

2:52

several of them listed supportive

2:55

places that they found online. But

2:58

if we can connect anybody anyway, we've

3:00

heard great stuff about the subreddit, the

3:02

XJW subreddit. There's a lot of Facebook

3:05

groups for X members.

3:08

So all that to say, there is help

3:10

and support out there for people that

3:13

are going through what you all have gone through. It's

3:17

been extremely eye-opening just

3:20

how many people have

3:23

gone through this specific type

3:25

of trauma and abuse

3:25

that only a cult

3:28

can really inflict on someone.

3:30

Most definitely. And that's the subreddits

3:33

and us being able to share stories like this.

3:36

It gets me every time when

3:38

people just say like, oh my gosh, I'm not crazy

3:40

or oh, I'm not alone or oh, I'm not. There's

3:42

such power in community. And the isolation

3:45

of this group is one of their most horrible

3:47

tactics is shunning isolation,

3:52

driving a wedge between family members. And

3:54

so if there's a way to circumvent

3:57

that, figure out how other families

3:59

have dealt with that or just if your

4:01

family is, as we'll hear in some of these stories,

4:03

so stuck in that, you know, they really do shun

4:05

you kind of how to move on from that and

4:07

how to grapple with it. So, so much power in all

4:10

these stories. Thanks to everybody who's written them in and

4:12

everybody who's listened to the episode. Definitely.

4:15

We appreciate all the positive feedback we got.

4:17

And there's two more. Yeah.

4:19

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And

4:22

yes, to Heather's point, thank you so

4:24

much for sending them in. And so

4:27

many of you have said like, I've never said

4:29

this before, but if it can help others

4:32

or I heard such and

4:34

such say something and it triggered this

4:36

memory or I went through the same thing. So

4:39

there's absolutely power

4:41

in telling your story and it can be anonymous.

4:44

Some people have said, I just wanted

4:46

to write this in. You don't even have to read it,

4:48

but it just makes me feel better having gotten

4:51

it off my chest. And I promise

4:54

you, someone is reading these.

4:57

It's me. I've been crying

4:59

all day. Yeah. I was going to say,

5:01

both of us, Paris walked in and just knelt

5:04

next to me and was like, what's going on? And I said, Oh,

5:06

I was just reading the Freaky Friday submissions for

5:08

this week. And he just sat and held my hand and said, do you

5:10

want to tell me about them? And I said, no, you can

5:13

listen to the episode. So that extent,

5:16

I can't do it twice. I had to, I'm reading,

5:18

I read it. I love that you constantly gate

5:20

keep information to make him listen to

5:22

the episode. You're like, no, you

5:25

can listen to the episode. Like everybody

5:28

else for, first of all, every download

5:30

counts. No, but also just my brain. I was like,

5:32

I can't recall. No, no, no, no,

5:35

no. Yeah. Only one. So to that extent, I'll

5:37

cry 100%. You're already crying.

5:39

I'm trying not to. I'm telling you. I'm going to,

5:42

I've had it. It's been a rough week. This, you

5:44

were literally are in complete darkness. I only hear your

5:46

face. You're in a dark and whole.

5:48

I'm in a dark place Heather. And,

5:50

but you know, I mean, I'm

5:55

just reading these stories. So if

5:57

you have experienced

5:59

it is. I mean, this isn't about me

6:01

and how it's made

6:03

us feel, but shining

6:06

a light on what

6:09

is considered a religion and a

6:12

well-accepted one by so many. And

6:16

so many members or former members have

6:18

said, thank you for telling

6:20

the truth about what this organization is

6:22

because people just

6:23

think, oh, whatever,

6:25

there were just weirdos that go door to door, but

6:28

it goes so much deeper than that.

6:31

And it's just layers upon layers

6:33

of corruption and abuse. So

6:36

buckle up. Buckle up. We got eight

6:38

stories. I have to get three of them. I have to say, mascara

6:41

alert, we are today doing what we

6:44

often describe as bearing witness to suffering.

6:46

And that is everybody that wrote in. I want

6:48

you to know, ironically, the word witness, but you

6:51

know your scene and that's what this is for. So

6:54

mascara alert, you might, Paris,

6:56

because are you okay? Your eyes are red. I'm

6:58

like, I've been crying, man. But

7:02

it gives you, it definitely makes you look at the whole,

7:04

when you drive past the Kingdom Hall, I drove past one

7:06

Tuesday night about 9.20 in the whole

7:08

entire parking lot. There's one right by my walking

7:10

distance to my house. The whole parking lot

7:12

was full. And when you bear witness

7:14

to the suffering and the truth of what happens, that

7:17

full parking lot is a sick stomach. Yeah.

7:20

Yeah. Next time maybe

7:23

someone knocks at your door with kids

7:25

or you see them, you know, on a street

7:28

corner next to a cart with literature, you'll

7:31

have a different outlook on

7:33

what they are going through. Exactly. Do

7:35

that in this episode contains discussions of child abuse,

7:38

sexual abuse, and suicide.

7:41

So we understand if you

7:43

need to skip this one. Yeah, certainly. Or

7:45

just getting to the right headspace for it. Yeah.

7:48

Well, I'm Christy. I'm Heather. And

7:51

let's get freaky. Let's

7:55

bear with me. How about that? Let's bear

7:57

witness. So we're about to do. Well,

7:59

this The first one is from anonymous. A

8:01

lot of these are. And the

8:04

subject line is just the JWs.

8:07

Hello. I just listened to your episode on the

8:09

JWs after seeing it mentioned on

8:12

the XJW subreddit. And

8:14

I have to say you two did an amazing job.

8:16

The clarity with which you both were able to see how

8:19

horrible that organization is made

8:21

me so unbelievably happy. I

8:24

am what is termed a quote, born

8:26

in. Yes, fortunate enough to be

8:28

raised in that bullshit. I was

8:30

just fellowshiped at age 41 for, get this, looking

8:34

at porn. Looked at it one time,

8:36

felt bad about it, and told on myself

8:38

like a dumbass. This is ironic

8:40

because as a male within that organization

8:43

or an elder, if you do something that is

8:45

considered sinning and go before the elders,

8:48

they'll likely get a pass on it if no one knows

8:50

about it. It all has to do with perception.

8:53

And of course, perception is about how

8:55

you're viewed. And if no one knows, then it's not

8:57

a problem. Judging by how well

8:59

prepared your first episode was, I'm

9:02

going to guess you have all downloaded the Shepherd

9:04

the Flock Secret Elders

9:06

manual off of avoidjw.org.

9:10

Within its pages outlines what someone

9:12

can be disfellowshipped for and how

9:14

elders can avoid such. Hearing

9:17

the experiences you mentioned of my fellow

9:19

humans that have gone through the same agony

9:21

of shunning like I have was painful

9:24

to hear. Having one's own family,

9:26

your blood relatives, that once showed what

9:28

was thought to be true love and affection, just

9:31

turned that off because a man-made religion

9:33

told them that's what God wants them to do.

9:36

It's one of the most painful things we've had to go through,

9:39

second only to losing my mother in death.

9:41

What's worse is how the organization

9:44

puts on this front that they don't shun

9:46

when in fact they openly and strongly

9:48

encourage their congregates to do that. It's

9:51

infuriating. Just recently,

9:53

within their weekly meetings, they emphasized

9:56

how it's showing loyalty to Jehovah to

9:58

shun any who are disfellowshipped. fellowship. The

10:01

hypocrisy that those who run that organization

10:03

display is horrible. Being

10:07

a person of color, it was eye-opening

10:09

to see the bold statements they made in articles

10:12

the general public doesn't know they wrote, much

10:14

less active members. Ben

10:16

Ford did a great video on this that I think

10:18

you all will enjoy. My

10:21

thoughts are all over the place at the moment because I'm

10:23

so happy that they are finally being exposed

10:25

for being more than just friendly faces that

10:27

knock on your door or stand beside literature

10:30

carts. Those same people will

10:32

show conditional love at

10:34

the drop of a hat. That hat being

10:36

an announcement made from the platform saying

10:39

that so-and-so is no longer

10:41

one of Jehovah's Witnesses. And

10:43

at that moment the individual announced becomes

10:46

dead to them, all under the direction

10:48

of nine guys in upstate New York who

10:50

claim to be the mouthpiece of God.

10:52

I hate that I've lost so

10:55

many years to that organization, but I'm

10:57

so very thankful that they are great, understanding,

11:00

and wonderful humans. That, like myself,

11:03

have gone through the same thing and have been a huge

11:05

source of help for me and others. My

11:08

hope is that when people think of Jehovah's Witnesses,

11:10

they don't immediately think of people that knock at

11:12

your door or stand next to book carts. I

11:15

hope they think of people that agree with an organization

11:18

that doesn't see the hiding of child rapists

11:20

within their midst as a problem. I

11:22

hope they see that they agree with an organization

11:25

that unapologetically printed horribly

11:27

racist and misogynistic beliefs. And

11:30

I hope they see people, mothers, fathers,

11:33

sons, and daughters who will mentally

11:35

bury their loved ones at the announcement that

11:37

they no longer want to be one of them. Thank

11:40

you, thank you, thank you for what you two amazing

11:42

human beings are doing, and I'm so looking

11:45

forward to hearing more from you. Well,

11:49

this, thank you Anonymous, and

11:51

for every Anonymous, I know we joke that you're

11:53

my daughters, but you're all my children. If you're Anonymous,

11:55

I love you, you're my baby. Thank you for writing

11:57

in. But to start

11:59

off, with the looking at porn and telling on yourself.

12:02

And that's what really gets me about the

12:04

hypocrisy is because in more research,

12:07

you do hear that elders that do stuff,

12:09

as long as nobody beneath them knows about

12:11

it, they just don't get in trouble. It's like,

12:14

oh, well, nobody hears about it. So just seeing that

12:16

kind of like, well, as long as it's cover up-able and that just

12:18

extends all the way.

12:21

Or like they said, just

12:24

a man, this person is male.

12:27

And you're treated differently if you

12:31

go to your elders for something

12:33

like watching porn, if you're

12:36

a woman. And then like they said,

12:38

if you're a man or an

12:40

elder, you're treated much

12:42

differently, much, much differently as

12:44

we talked about in the episode too. There's the

12:47

whole concept of male headship

12:50

and women don't

12:52

really have the same rights. I don't think that's

12:54

a hot take. I don't think I'm saying anything

12:56

that isn't true. I mean,

12:59

women are not treated equal within this organization.

13:01

And neither are children. No,

13:03

and up until recently, literally the illustrations,

13:07

because they got called out on it and they're like, well, now we look like

13:09

idiots. But it would show the man like

13:11

sitting in an easy chair and the woman and daughter

13:13

are like collecting the plates off the table. Like, yes,

13:16

honey. Like it looks like the fifties, but it's all

13:18

quite modern. And to thank

13:20

you Anonymous for sending this link to Ben Ford,

13:22

it's F-O-A-R-D, who

13:24

does ex-JW videos on YouTube and

13:27

watching this, he brings up the point that

13:29

like you have the front-facing JW.org website.

13:32

Beneath that you have their online library, which

13:34

we've looked at for the show as well, that that's the

13:37

front-facing websites for worldly

13:39

people that might get converted and or, you

13:41

know, your everyday JW, you're supposed

13:43

to look stuff up on there. That's your Google. You're not

13:45

supposed to go look at the internet. Then they have this online

13:47

library, which like we said in the first episode has

13:50

stuff that was printed. A 1981 article that

13:52

I read today, let me know that women's

13:54

liberation causes cancer. I didn't

13:57

know this until today. Oh, well, that's.

14:00

I'm gonna have to change my signs on a mulch.

14:03

Yeah, we've got some information to share with you today But

14:05

but what brit binn Ford brings up in the

14:08

article he brings up in his YouTube video is that you know

14:10

It's it literally says Anybody

14:13

that's african-american or black has a lower intelligence

14:16

and so make sure you don't give them magazines

14:18

because they might not get it And you don't want to waste

14:20

a magazine on them But the fact is

14:22

that's been hidden beneath another layer that

14:24

you have to log in at you have to be a bethel level

14:27

But it's not that they've marked it and said this is

14:29

outdated. This is old. It's just like

14:32

well. Don't tell everybody this Yeah,

14:34

yeah, and like we said in the first episode Roughly 30%

14:39

of JW's worldwide are

14:41

black. Yeah, so you have you're part

14:43

of an organization that has

14:45

said in writing You are

14:48

less than yeah, they are othering

14:50

you they're saying you're not as smart that

14:52

you are like they said Women's

14:54

heads are born a different

14:57

eyes. Well, we can't be as smart. Yeah, I mean yeah,

14:59

just make up complete Fake

15:02

science if I'm acting even say it's science

15:05

because I'm not gonna besmirch the name of science.

15:07

They make up just lies

15:10

to further their Mythoginistic

15:14

racist homophobic ideologies

15:17

certainly and then they tell the followers

15:19

the adherents You are not allowed to look at

15:21

any other sources and then in their videos

15:24

that there's governing body member videos

15:26

going now If you're on an apostate website,

15:28

they're gonna try to lead you astray So it's

15:30

again this like closing this control of

15:32

the flow of information controlling what people

15:34

know And I'm really sorry anonymous

15:37

that you had to go through any of that much

15:39

less having to lose your family and you

15:42

know people that alleged that they love you willing

15:44

to turn on you for something

15:46

that's man-made yeah,

15:48

and almost all of these have

15:51

that same theme of Your

15:54

your family your friends your whole

15:56

support group Dropping you

15:58

at the first inkling

16:01

that you are someone that they

16:04

don't think Jehovah would be

16:06

proud of. It's crushing.

16:08

It's crushing. I mean I think

16:10

we said in the or maybe it was another

16:12

Freaky Friday someone said

16:15

that they're trying to get laws

16:17

passed so the practice of shunning

16:19

is... Oh yeah, it's in Belgium. Yeah

16:22

and it should be because I mean it

16:26

might not be a physical form

16:28

of abuse but it is so mentally

16:31

and emotionally abusive that leads so

16:33

often to suicide

16:36

as we'll see in this that I don't

16:38

know how it's legally

16:41

allowed. People go to jail

16:43

for far lesser crimes than

16:45

that. Right and it's fascinating. I mean the

16:47

JW's argue that under the First Amendment they have

16:49

freedom of association and freedom to practice

16:51

their religion but that that

16:53

is that comes at odds anytime that we have

16:55

a harmful dangerous ongoing practices

16:58

that what at what point does the government

17:00

need to step in. I don't know that I

17:03

don't know that the way that the US

17:05

jurisprudence like the First Amendment jurisprudence

17:07

would let it happen and that's the real hard thing

17:10

when you see an American religion exploiting

17:12

kind of I don't say the loophole but kind of exploiting

17:14

how free we are but then when you see

17:16

other countries taking steps to protect citizens

17:19

from this we start going maybe

17:21

we could do for a little bit more decisions

17:23

on what is and isn't okay as far as claiming

17:26

you know God's protection and

17:28

then abusing people under that same

17:30

banner. At the very least children.

17:32

You know in this is the choice

17:35

you make for yourself that's one

17:37

thing if you're born into this and it's just

17:39

forced upon you then that is another.

17:42

Right you're right that'd be a sort of familial

17:44

alienation you know I wonder if that's there's some

17:46

claim in there if a one parent leaves and

17:48

the other doesn't or you know a family member

17:50

leaves do they have a right to see their grandmother their aunt

17:53

whatever you know to so the kid

17:55

doesn't think oh well aunt Heather doesn't like me anymore

17:57

because she's gonna die in the Armageddon

17:59

too by the way. way she doesn't love you but and

18:01

one last thing on this one is the shunning

18:04

is still active I mean there's current videos

18:06

of them saying oh yeah but then publicly

18:09

they go well we don't tell people to do that that's

18:11

their noise but then in the videos they go it's

18:13

your choice if you don't do it Jehovah will

18:15

no longer love you and you will die in Armageddon but

18:17

it's your choice yeah it's total gaslighting

18:20

I mean it's like any abuser

18:22

being like well you can leave this relationship nobody's

18:25

gonna love you and you're gonna die alone cuz

18:27

I'm the only one that'll put up with you but if you want to leave go

18:29

ahead right and I'll keep your kid and yeah

18:31

mm-hmm yeah sisterhood

18:36

will be right back here's

18:39

the deal every time I go to get

18:41

dressed I open the closet door and it all

18:43

falls out of my face and it explodes on me like

18:45

the blood in the elevator and the shining

18:47

I would

18:49

thought you were gonna say when you

18:52

open a trick can of snakes and

18:54

they pop out and you want dark and I'm here

18:56

for it but it's true I

18:58

just got so much stuff and I don't know what's fast why do I get

19:00

all these tick-tocks tell me what's in fashion

19:02

and that the problem is I don't want to buy a bunch of junk

19:05

I want good solid pieces

19:08

that I'm iconic and I can wear

19:10

it over and over so I had to text my friend Megan who's like

19:12

my personal stylist and I was like I'm

19:14

getting on the quince train if you

19:16

hadn't heard a quince and

19:18

she's like obviously I've heard a quince what are you trying

19:21

to get and I picked out a beautiful

19:23

alpaca cropped cardigan

19:25

and I was debating on color she's like

19:28

they have lavender or violet she's

19:30

like violet purples these are very in

19:32

for fall oh they are yeah oh you

19:35

know what I love a place where I'm like bam I'm

19:37

already good and it's timeless it's in for fall but

19:39

it's a timeless piece I love a good staple

19:41

you know that can be worn with other

19:44

things especially like a cardigan

19:46

or sweater that you can layer so high

19:48

quality yeah you can mix it up well

19:51

quince creates timeless classics

19:53

that never go out of style just like Taylor

19:56

Swift said and you

19:58

can get the A

20:00

white shirt probably, a James

20:02

Dean style, or a tight

20:04

little skirt. You can probably get both those

20:06

there. You'll have them in your closet forever.

20:09

Like 100% Mongolian cashmere

20:12

sweaters. Of course it's cashmere. From $50.

20:16

Suede and leather jackets and silk

20:18

blouses and dresses. It's just all

20:20

the stuff that I look like a slob sometimes,

20:22

but if I would like to look like a classy person, this

20:24

is what I'm trying to wear. I'm like, oh, I got to go

20:27

look nice just on an everyday. The

20:29

thing about Quince too, they cut out the cost of

20:31

the middleman because they partner directly with

20:33

these top factories. We all get to

20:35

save. I'm trying to look nice, but I'm not trying to

20:37

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21:26

right. We'll have taken a Xanax to get through

21:28

the rest of this. Next

21:31

up, we have one

21:33

from Caitlin and this is called Jehovah's

21:36

Witness Show. Hey

21:39

ladies, I just finished your latest Freaky

21:41

Friday on Spotify and I'm thrilled

21:43

to hear you are doing a show on the JWs.

21:46

I was born into the cult and my family was

21:48

active until I was about 12 years old. My

21:51

mom's parents were recruited in the 70s, but

21:53

we were never the super hardcore witnesses.

21:56

There was a stark change in family photos from

21:59

that decade. My grandparents loved

22:01

Christmas. They handmade yard decorations.

22:04

They put out every year. And then suddenly,

22:06

no more family Christmas photos. My

22:09

mom, sister, and I never celebrated holidays

22:11

growing up either. It was very alienating

22:14

to be that weird kid in class that couldn't

22:16

have a birthday cupcake or say Merry Christmas.

22:19

I didn't go trick-or-treating for the first time until

22:21

I was 16. Let's

22:24

skip all the usual cult bullshit and I'll

22:26

just give you some personal examples of the toxicity

22:29

I witnessed and was unable to digest

22:31

until I was older. Of course, you

22:34

all know about their disdain for advanced education.

22:37

The one thing that is absolutely violently

22:39

tragic is the refusal of blood

22:41

transfusions. And this, even

22:44

at the young age of 10, was a personal

22:46

deal breaker for me. My mom carried

22:48

the, quote, no blood cards for

22:50

the three of us. Her and my father were divorced

22:53

when I was two and he was

22:54

not a witness.

22:55

I asked her if she would let my sister

22:57

or I die instead of giving us a blood transfusion.

23:00

And she said, of course not. And I think this

23:03

conversation helped get the ball rolling about

23:05

what a dangerous situation we were on. Now

23:08

as a nurse, I've seen people die because

23:10

they refuse blood. They leave their children

23:13

and family because of some bullshit line

23:15

in a 2000-year-old mistranslated

23:17

novel. You also learn

23:19

that non-JWs are the worldly

23:22

and we aren't too associate with them. So

23:24

I never had any friends outside

23:26

the kingdom hall because they were all doomed

23:28

anyway. That was also a very jarring

23:31

realization to have as a young child.

23:33

I absolutely could not reconcile that

23:36

someone somewhere that had never heard of Jehovah

23:38

was doomed. My grandpa had a neuromuscular

23:41

disorder. I was always told it was MS

23:43

growing up. But now being 39 and

23:45

an RN for 15 years, I know that

23:47

wasn't accurate. He lost the ability

23:50

to walk shortly after I was born. He

23:52

probably could have pursued treatment if

23:54

he and my grandma hadn't bought into the dogma

23:57

that once Armageddon happens,

23:58

which according to the JWs,

23:59

JW's as any day now, he

24:02

would be resurrected into a new healthy

24:04

body to live forever.

24:06

We my mom's sister and I simply

24:09

stopped going to the meetings after some drama,

24:11

including infidelity and sexual abuse

24:13

allegations started popping up with

24:15

families

24:15

we were close to.

24:17

Of course we had some sisters and brothers pop

24:19

up at our door for months trying to cajole us

24:22

into returning, but we passed. Thankfully

24:25

my grandparents, I think due to their age

24:27

and reliance on my mom's assistance, did

24:29

not disassociate or shun us.

24:32

And finally my uncle David, my mom's

24:35

oldest brother, was also a JW. He

24:37

was devout and had a tight knit church family.

24:41

Dave also had paranoid schizophrenia and depression.

24:44

Now he never shunned us either. We were actually

24:46

a very close family. We all had family

24:48

dinner at the grandparents house every Sunday

24:50

after meeting. Dave went to his kingdom

24:53

hall and my grandparents listened to the meeting over

24:55

the phone because it was too hard on my grandpa

24:57

to leave the house. Back to Dave,

25:00

he was eventually made an elder of the congregation

25:03

and supposedly very respected and loved.

25:07

He also struggled daily with his mental health and

25:09

one day chose to end his life. His

25:12

body was found by another brother when he came

25:14

to pick Dave up for kingdom hall. When

25:16

Dave didn't come to the door, he had a spare

25:19

key and entered his apartment. Now

25:21

Dave left a suicide note. We were told

25:23

this by the brother that found him. His

25:26

brother kept the note and refused to let

25:28

us, his fucking family, read

25:30

it. Fine, whatever. We

25:32

probably didn't need to read the ramblings of someone

25:35

completely lost in his psychosis. We

25:38

went to the congregation and asked if we could have

25:40

Dave's memorial there so he could be close

25:42

to everyone he loved one last time. Of

25:45

course they refused because Jehovah

25:47

doesn't condone suicide and

25:49

they weren't going to be associated with that. Okay,

25:52

whatever, how about we have a memorial at his

25:55

favorite park and his friends can meet us there.

25:57

Nope, see the above. fucking

26:00

shunned him after his suicide. Fuck

26:03

Jehovah's Witnesses. Thank

26:05

you for covering them and their ridiculous,

26:07

toxic, deadly practices.

26:10

Keep it creepy, Caitlin. Oh,

26:12

Caitlin, I'm so sorry. That

26:15

is to have your parents sucked

26:17

in and then your mom and then to have

26:20

somebody in your family that struggles with severe

26:22

mental illness. And this is not

26:24

a uncommon thing that people with

26:27

significant mental illness is supposed to pray

26:29

it away. Jehovah will heal them.

26:32

Things like that. And it's like that is

26:35

in practice completely horseshit,

26:38

as you can see. I mean, it does not work. No,

26:40

and they're discouraged

26:42

from seeking medical

26:45

help, mental health doctors, seeking

26:47

counseling. So if you're

26:49

struggling with paranoid schizophrenia

26:52

and depression every day and it's

26:55

going untreated and your only means

26:57

for that is community and praying.

27:00

I mean, thoughts and prayers,

27:03

I can tell you right now, I mean, they

27:05

don't get us anywhere. We wouldn't have the current

27:07

problems we do in the

27:09

United States with so many things.

27:11

So this is

27:14

just another example of someone

27:17

that could have been saved had their, had

27:20

they been supported by those that were

27:22

closest to them. Yeah, logically supported

27:25

and not doctrinally stuck

27:27

in this, you know, it was written

27:29

in the 1950s, it's kind of like fake made

27:31

up translation of the Bible. And also,

27:34

in frequently in instances where there

27:36

are delusions and a person who is

27:38

particularly religious, we delved

27:40

a little bit into this when we did the Pope's Exorcist

27:43

and people kind of having this belief or whatever

27:45

that if you don't also get psychiatric

27:48

treatment alongside whatever spiritual treatment

27:50

you want, oftentimes that spirituality

27:52

seeps in and makes those delusions worse. And

27:54

suddenly, oh, well, the

27:57

JW is whatever the Watchtower Society told me that

28:00

Satan is going to try to talk to me and now he's

28:02

talking to me and he's talking to me and he's telling me to run

28:04

this car into a crowd of people. You know what I mean?

28:07

And so you can't say, oh, well, we'll just pray. Or he's telling

28:09

me to take my own life. To hurt myself.

28:12

Yeah, hurt myself. Unfortunately, you,

28:15

Caitlin, are absolutely not alone in the

28:18

online anecdotal cases we've

28:20

read. And, you know, there's people that were

28:23

disfellowshipped for seeking mental health treatment

28:25

to help themselves. And

28:28

what a choice you have to make that you want to take

28:30

care of your own mental health and help yourself, but

28:32

then you get disconnected completely

28:34

from your family. Yeah, I

28:37

mean, it might be easy as an outsider to

28:40

say this, but I would encourage everyone

28:42

always choose yourself over

28:45

anyone else or any other

28:47

organization. And if they aren't trying

28:50

to help you get better, then they are

28:52

not someone that sincerely

28:54

cares about

28:55

you and has your best interest at heart.

28:57

And

28:57

by getting better, I mean medically

29:00

getting better. Yeah, clinically,

29:02

finding a clinically getting better expert. Yes, that

29:04

will help. And you're in then to see exactly

29:06

what to put a point on what

29:09

you said, you do that you've do it your whole

29:11

entire life to this. And when it you succumb

29:13

to this illness that they, in fact, I

29:16

would say perpetuated through saying don't

29:18

get help. And then to one final

29:20

indignity of we don't well, he's not

29:22

really all that work he put in actually doesn't matter

29:25

because, you know, Jehovah doesn't like suicide. So

29:27

he's he's gone to us. We don't we don't ever

29:29

gonna say his name again, like just the extra

29:31

indignity on top of that. I'm sorry,

29:34

your family had to go through that Caitlin. Yeah. And

29:36

like you said, you devote your whole life to it. And

29:39

then your life

29:41

is in vain because what did you devote it to

29:44

if in the end they were going to turn

29:46

their back on you when you needed the most and then

29:49

they don't even honor you and your death. Despicable.

29:55

Well, speaking of despicable, this

29:58

is from Leah and it is called I

30:00

almost died because of JW's. In

30:04

the early 1980s, my parents entered

30:07

into the JW's as newlyweds. They

30:09

both grew up in strict Catholic households.

30:11

Now they wanted to find their own religion and community

30:14

to raise their young family in. JW's

30:17

seemed to draw in families with the hopes of

30:19

connection, morals, and family values.

30:22

Little did they know, they were entering a cult

30:24

driven by fear and shame. I

30:26

spent my elementary school years as an outsider.

30:29

I wasn't allowed to celebrate birthdays, holidays,

30:32

or

30:32

play sports.

30:33

As a parent now myself, it breaks

30:36

my heart to think of bright, joyful

30:38

little me sitting outside in the hallway

30:40

while my classroom sang happy birthday to a

30:42

classmate

30:43

or created Valentine's boxes.

30:46

I wasn't allowed something as simple as coloring

30:48

a holiday coloring sheet, or I would

30:50

die in Armageddon alone

30:53

while the rest of my family quote, lived

30:55

happily ever after in a paradise

30:57

on earth. Each

30:59

morning while the entire class stood for the Pledge

31:02

of Allegiance, I had to sit down

31:04

looking down at my hands in my lap, melting

31:07

with shame, while 25 pairs

31:09

of inquisitive eyes burned holes into

31:11

me. Year after year, grade

31:14

after grade. On it went

31:16

no sports, no parties, no

31:18

Christmases with extended family, no

31:21

dating. I never fully understood

31:23

why. Because my dad said so,

31:25

because the Bible said so. I wasn't

31:28

allowed to question it

31:29

ever.

31:31

It wasn't until I turned nine years old, this

31:33

foundation of blind faith I'd been born into

31:36

began to crumble. One day I

31:38

started to get sick, a flu feeling

31:41

that didn't let up after 48 hours. The

31:43

malaise dragged on unbearably for

31:46

several days. I missed school.

31:48

My parents meant well, but we were poor

31:50

and we didn't have health insurance. They

31:53

did not take me to the doctor. They

31:55

distrusted medical doctors, and I

31:57

feel JWs were a lot to blame. My

32:00

dad yelled at me, thinking I was just being

32:02

quote, lazy, but I was too sick

32:04

to even get out of bed. I had so much

32:06

abdominal pain and no strength to walk.

32:09

One afternoon, I collapsed in the bathroom

32:12

unresponsive, and thankfully, they

32:14

finally took me to the ER. In

32:17

the hospital, they found I was in hemolytic

32:19

crisis. I was anemic, and my hemoglobin

32:22

and blood flow count was severely low. After

32:25

many tests, they found it was a rare blood

32:27

disorder causing my spleen to stop functioning

32:30

properly. My blood cells had become

32:32

misshapen. They were breaking down quickly

32:34

and getting caught in my spleen. I

32:37

would need a splenectomy, and I now

32:39

had such a dangerously low red blood cell

32:41

supply that it would require multiple

32:43

infrequent blood transfusions to replenish.

32:46

But here's the kicker. It is against the

32:48

religion to take blood of another for themselves

32:50

or their children, even when life

32:53

is endangered. JW's believe

32:55

that a human must not sustain their life

32:57

with another's blood.

32:58

It is their deep-seated

32:59

religious conviction that Jehovah

33:02

will turn his back on anyone who

33:04

receives blood transfusions. JW's

33:07

refuse transfusions because they believe

33:09

the procedure creates a risk of losing

33:11

eternal salvation. When

33:14

the topic of blood came up, suddenly

33:16

my small hospital room was overrun

33:18

with JW elders and congregation

33:20

members. They pushed my parents

33:22

to protest the hospital's diagnosis

33:24

and demanded a different treatment. They

33:27

bedded heads with the doctors and did not allow

33:29

them to do the necessary work to save my life.

33:32

I was slipping in and out of consciousness.

33:35

My life was in danger. The doctor said

33:37

if I didn't get the proper surgery and blood

33:39

transfusions, my blood cell count

33:41

would get so low, I would

33:42

die.

33:44

One night, I was steadily losing blood.

33:47

I had no strength. I was blacking out.

33:50

My heart rate was slowing.

33:51

I watched my body from above, surrounded

33:54

by the JW elders.

33:56

I was near death, ready to let

33:58

go.

33:59

I was having a near-death experience. I

34:02

journeyed off flowers on the other side of the mirror

34:04

in the room, and I felt pulled to them.

34:07

But all of a sudden, the stream ended. Sunshine

34:10

burst into my dark hospital room, morning

34:13

came, and a team of doctors and security

34:15

guards came into my room with an order for

34:17

protection and wheeled me out.

34:20

The

34:22

motherfucking state of Minnesota saved

34:24

my life. The judge signed an order

34:26

and gave custody of me to the state, and

34:28

they kicked out all of the JWs and my

34:30

parents that had just sat by and

34:32

let this happen. The doctors worked

34:35

quickly to save my life, and I live

34:37

and thrive today, able to tell this tale

34:39

because of that.

34:40

I am so grateful.

34:42

Want to know what's fucked up? Six months

34:45

later, this rare genetic disorder would

34:47

rear its ugly head and my little brother, and

34:49

every step would replay. And

34:52

they didn't learn a fucking thing. My parents

34:54

and the JW elders would refuse to take

34:57

life-saving blood to save him. So

34:59

again, the state of Minnesota came in clutch

35:01

to save his life when these people

35:04

failed him. My parents were seen

35:06

as heroes that stood up to the devil and were

35:08

applauded in the JW community, but

35:10

I never looked at them the same again. I

35:13

would never look at any religious leader the same again.

35:15

I had lost my trust in people. I

35:18

learned many times over the years just

35:20

how much the people you thought would protect you would

35:22

let you down. I faded from the

35:24

religion and my dad a few short

35:26

years later. As

35:29

a mother of a nine-year-old daughter now myself, I

35:32

cannot even fathom this. It is

35:34

my sole purpose to care for and protect

35:36

my children regardless of what some

35:38

religion tells you. I just don't

35:40

get it. I will never fully understand

35:42

my parents. It has been hard to forgive

35:45

them. This is the first time

35:47

I have ever shared this story with anyone. I've

35:49

kept it buried because I find it so horrific.

35:52

It's almost unbelievable. When

35:54

I found out about your JW episode, I

35:56

knew that it was important to share the truth. Thank

35:59

you for every— Everything you do, you're the best

36:01

big sisters. I never had XO

36:03

Leah.

36:07

Well, this

36:10

is what is heart

36:12

wrenching to me is like you said

36:14

earlier, if you're an adult and you want to participate

36:16

in something like this, and you want to say

36:18

a surgeon DMS earlier and said, this

36:21

still comes up in my practice. I've been practicing 12 years.

36:24

We weekly they perform amputations.

36:26

They said weekly this we've discussed

36:28

it. It's a case. It might be a case, whatever adults,

36:31

you know, and if you speak to the adult beforehand and

36:34

say, I understand this is your religious belief.

36:36

These are the precautions we can take. But if it comes

36:38

down to you die or you get blood, you're telling

36:40

me you want die. And they say, yes, please. I

36:43

got no problem with that. Everybody, I have full

36:46

faith and not faith, I have full support for anybody

36:48

who gets to choose their own treatment. What

36:50

I have a problem with is when children

36:53

who are innocent, who didn't sign up for this, they

36:55

didn't sign up for Armageddon, they didn't get, they

36:57

didn't get sucked into some religion. And so it's

36:59

a bad luck of being born to a parent who did get

37:01

sucked into a religion. And when we see other

37:04

kids who had the bad luck of being born to a parent

37:06

who has a substance use issue so bad

37:08

they can't take care of the child, a mental health

37:10

problem they have such that they can't take care of the child,

37:13

just anger issues they can't or whatever the

37:16

state steps in. So I'm very glad

37:18

that the state of Minnesota steps in. And

37:21

what I really get grinds

37:23

my gears about the Watchtower organization

37:26

and particularly this issue of child

37:29

blood transfusions is that the

37:31

Watchtower organization protect, you know, through the governing

37:34

body are a bunch of fucking idiots

37:36

because they're just like, well, you can't take

37:38

blood, you cannot take blood. If you take blood, you'll

37:40

die in Armageddon. But if it's a court order, it's

37:42

fine. And it wasn't really you and it's okay. Or

37:45

you cannot take blood, you cannot take blood. And unless

37:47

somebody in the church finds out that it's fine and

37:49

just don't tell them. Sure. If

37:51

it benefits them in some way, then you

37:54

know, it's a don't

37:56

ask, don't tell type of situation. And

37:58

the fact that this Rare disorder

38:01

happened to both you

38:03

and your brother twice. And

38:06

they saw that the state

38:08

had no problem coming in and doing this and

38:11

yet they still made the same decision.

38:14

That's the level of indoctrination and brainwashing

38:16

you just can't reason with. No,

38:19

you can't reason with. To your point of it's been

38:21

very hard to forgive your parents. Oh

38:23

man, would it ever be?

38:25

And could you ever? I mean, that's something you

38:28

talk to your therapist about because

38:30

I mean, and then you sit there and watch your brother go

38:33

through the same thing. It's heartbreaking

38:35

and so fucking heartbreaking the

38:38

way Leah you described

38:41

just the isolation you feel

38:43

in elementary and middle school. Those

38:46

years are already so fucking difficult,

38:48

so hard. Even if you're, you know,

38:51

without any extra added stuff. But

38:54

to sit there and have to just stare

38:56

at your lap, you're burning with shame while

38:58

everyone

38:59

just looked at you and because

39:01

it's just different to them. They don't understand.

39:04

Then you gotta go sit in the hall while everyone's

39:06

having fun and you're just so

39:08

isolated. I mean, what a sad

39:11

fucking existence for a child

39:14

to grow up in. And

39:16

if you are a parent

39:19

and you're a JW and

39:21

you have a kid, if you force them to go

39:23

through this, you're a fucking monster.

39:26

And to me, it's no different than any

39:28

other type of abuse and your

39:30

kids should be taken away from you. I mean,

39:32

yeah, Leah, I wanna say to you, for you and

39:34

for your brother as a validation, you've

39:37

been abused. That's an abusive thing that your parents

39:39

did. They did it under the guise

39:41

that, you know, they got sold a bill of goods or whatever,

39:44

but that is like Christie said, something

39:46

to talk about with a therapist because it is, but I want

39:48

you to know your valid, what they did was not,

39:50

well, they were doing there, but I mean, it's hard because

39:53

they were so rewarded

39:57

for the behavior too. To hear

39:59

that the whole. congregation descends

40:01

on you and viewing your parents

40:03

separate from you as the relationship

40:06

and that it is a human man and a human woman

40:08

and they're just their own individuals and

40:11

what a good feeling it feels to be told

40:13

that you have fought the devil in one. So

40:15

that's something that is really

40:17

hard to reconcile of like, I was dying.

40:20

And that's what you chose. Yeah.

40:23

They think maybe they thought they were saving her

40:25

from the Armageddon or whatever. But

40:28

it's, there's something that still

40:30

gets you sucks you in and gets you keeps coming back

40:33

because of that. You guys are so faithful.

40:35

And then when it happens to the second kid, they did it twice.

40:38

They're amazing. Well, that's the

40:40

stupid part of this is they

40:42

didn't do shit. Your kids alive

40:45

because they got the medical treatment they needed

40:47

because the state stepped in. It's

40:49

not as if you stood up to the devil and miraculously

40:52

they were cured overnight. So it just shows

40:54

that Jehovah is, I mean, it doesn't

40:57

even, the law is just a, it's a logic there. It doesn't

40:59

even make sense. It's your

41:01

child would have died had you had the

41:04

state not stepped in and then are you,

41:07

is that praise still going to hit the same when

41:09

you're burying your kid? How are you going to feel about

41:11

that? You're like, well, at least they're going to go

41:13

be an arm, you know, survive Armageddon.

41:15

But you're right. That's what I don't get too. Is

41:18

it in some of these cases that have been in the news

41:20

where a child is, you know, at risk of death

41:22

and then the state or steps in, I think it was a UK

41:24

case in the last five years or so. And

41:26

the parent said to the judge, Oh,

41:29

well, we don't oppose this, you know, it was a court order

41:31

to get the treatment, the medical treatment

41:33

and the, the parents said, well, we don't oppose this

41:35

and you just have to understand what a tough position

41:38

we're in. We're going to say no, but if you want to overrule

41:40

us and do it, that's fine. So to go through this

41:42

whole protracted court proceeding to

41:44

get to the literal same result. Yeah.

41:47

So I'm like, that doesn't count. So then it doesn't count either. You

41:49

can have it or you can't have it. Where's

41:52

the, where did the bed? Well, we changed our mind and maybe if

41:54

it's a court order, then technically it doesn't count. It

41:56

just is or it isn't. And then it's just a hip hop. They

41:58

don't want to get it. They want it on their hands.

42:00

They want to be able to wash their hands of what they consider

42:03

a sin and instead have it be someone

42:05

else's problem, yet still reap the benefits

42:08

of the kid not dying. So

42:11

you can't have all that. You got to pick

42:13

a lane, dipshit. And hopefully

42:15

you pick the lane that is getting

42:18

the kid whatever treatment they

42:20

need. And also, allowing them to

42:22

have a childhood. You get one. And

42:26

it's fleeting. And it's

42:29

to think

42:31

of all, I mean, every single,

42:34

literally, I think every single email

42:37

has talked about how

42:41

isolated and lonely they felt as a child.

42:44

And having kids looking

42:46

at them and thinking of them feeling like that,

42:49

it breaks my heart. I

42:52

hope that every – we

42:54

have a friend that is an

42:57

ex JW and didn't get to celebrate

42:59

his birthday for years and years. And

43:02

he is now married to a wonderful woman. And when

43:04

they first started dating, the first

43:06

thing she did was throw him

43:08

a huge birthday party. And

43:11

it was like his first birthday

43:13

party. And it

43:16

was such a big deal. And he was

43:18

in his 30s when that happened. Yeah.

43:20

And it's something – but it's an emotional missing

43:22

piece. And like Leah said, like having

43:24

a kid and you think of your inner

43:26

child and you – there's

43:28

something to be said about nurturing that inner child

43:31

when you finally have the ability to do so. Because

43:33

we all have to do that in general. But especially

43:35

when you had your childhood robbed

43:37

from you, essentially. And that's what these kids that grow up in

43:39

this do. Their childhood is stolen

43:42

from them. It's stolen from them.

43:48

Sinisterhood, we'll be right back.

44:00

go to shop for style home decor and

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44:16

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mugs, totes, and rings? Yep,

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44:23

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44:25

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45:41

Well that leads nicely into

45:43

this next one, or not so nicely.

45:47

This is from Carla, and it's called

45:49

Jehovah's Witness and Friends Suicide.

45:51

Hi guys, I've

45:53

been listening to the stories of Jehovah's Witnesses

45:56

and thinking about my childhood friend Amber.

45:58

It's a sad story, but I hope it helps. I thought

46:00

I'd share in the interest of remembering her and

46:02

possibly helping others. I

46:05

had a childhood friend, Amber, who lived in the

46:07

same rural neighborhood just down the street. We'd

46:10

ride bikes and play in the woods, typical

46:12

rural kid fun, and rode the bus to

46:14

school together. There was just one thing

46:16

different about her. I would always invite

46:18

her to my birthday parties, and she would never come.

46:21

I asked my mom why not, and she told me that

46:23

her family was Jehovah's Witnesses, and

46:25

they did not celebrate anything. Not

46:27

Christmas, even though they are technically Christian,

46:30

not birthdays, literally no celebrations

46:33

of any kind are allowed.

46:35

The reason why that was explained to me is

46:37

that they believed Jesus didn't celebrate anything

46:39

and so neither would they.

46:41

Now this always baffled me because I grew

46:43

up Catholic, also a cult in my

46:45

opinion, and if you know anything about Catholics,

46:48

it seems like everything is a reason for celebration.

46:51

Also, my little kid

46:53

mind could not wrap itself around the idea

46:56

that a kid didn't get to celebrate their birthday,

46:58

or Christmas, or Halloween, or

47:00

ever get any presents. Anyway

47:03

we remained friends until she disappeared from school

47:05

when we were middle school age. I have

47:07

no idea what happened to her, although she did

47:10

still live down the street, but we grew apart

47:12

and I never saw her anymore. Until

47:14

one summer home from college, I saw her

47:16

working at a local store. We

47:18

exchanged pleasantries and that was it. A

47:21

year or so later, I got word that Amber

47:23

had completed suicide not long after I

47:25

saw her. I remember the rumor

47:27

was that she was abused as a child and

47:30

that apparently, that is sadly common

47:32

in the JW community.

47:34

I think of Amber often and am saddened

47:36

to think about what her life must have been like as

47:39

a child.

47:40

I hope at least the fun we had together provided

47:42

a little brightness in her days. I'm

47:45

glad to hear you guys are bringing awareness to

47:47

this quote, religion.

47:49

Now do Catholicism next.

47:51

Thanks for making my days as a work from home

47:53

mom of a toddler bearable. You guys

47:55

are the best. Peace Carla. you

48:00

did give her brightness, Carla and somebody

48:02

to play with and some you know, connection

48:04

because like we just said, so many of them are so isolated

48:06

that, you know, just being a friend to a kid

48:08

like that. But I would imagine

48:11

if she disappeared from school around middle age

48:13

and a rumor was that there was abuse, there might

48:15

be some correlation of not

48:18

want to go to school anymore or whatever, we're not being

48:20

allowed to go to school, not allowed to go to school. It's just

48:23

it's such a sad thing when you do

48:25

hear that people are so abused by

48:27

this religion and then die

48:29

by suicide. It's such

48:32

a because it's such a sad ending

48:34

to a tale. It was preventable, it

48:36

seems. Yeah, you always hope that there's some way

48:38

to get out. There's hope like, there's always hope.

48:40

But when you're in a group that

48:42

says there isn't hope that if you leave this,

48:44

there's nothing, there's no family, there's no friends, there's

48:47

no eternity, there's no nothing, you really

48:49

do think it's either this or

48:52

the alternative, which that is

48:54

never the answer. So I'm,

48:56

I'm Carla, you did

48:58

you did good. You were a friend to her and

49:00

she'll remember. I'm sure she Oh, for sure. And I wanted

49:03

to include this one because we received

49:05

a lot of similar emails like this of your

49:08

episode made you remember that I had

49:11

a friend that grew up in there, all

49:13

the very same stories of they

49:16

weren't allowed to come to sleepovers. And, you

49:18

know, we went into wish

49:20

them happy birthday and we weren't allowed to

49:23

and just such a life of isolation

49:25

and isolation can

49:29

lead to secrets and all sorts of stuff that goes

49:31

on behind closed doors. And then

49:34

there's not an outlet for them to talk to, because

49:36

they're isolated from anybody that's worldly.

49:39

And anyone at the

49:42

kingdom hall is just going to cover it up. Yeah,

49:44

or say, you know, oh, you got a problem. Well, here's

49:46

a watchtower magazine, look up the internet

49:49

or deal with it within your own family,

49:51

which oftentimes the abuser

49:53

is in the family. Exactly. Yeah,

49:55

that's the the answer is always turned

49:57

back to internal and when the abuse is coming from

50:00

inside that's not a help at all. Well

50:05

this next one is from Mariah and the subject

50:07

line is Jehovah's Witness Victim. Hi

50:10

ladies, thank you for what you do. Like

50:13

many others say it's comforting to know that

50:15

we have a community that understands. Backstory,

50:18

I'm the oldest of three girls. At the

50:20

time of this I was 13 and my sisters

50:23

were 9 and 3.

50:24

Our mother has always been the worst.

50:27

My nanny, mom's mom, primarily

50:29

raised us until she passed in 2002. Mother literally

50:34

lived across the road from nanny yet that's

50:36

where we were sent day in and day out.

50:39

Mother is a narcissistic party girl even

50:41

now at 62. She married an alcoholic

50:44

that was physically and mentally abusive and

50:46

they both financially abused one another. This

50:49

gives her the pity on me and my life excuse

50:52

to blame others for her poor choices. With

50:54

that I'm sure you can guess that the neglect,

50:57

physical and sexual abuse of us girls weren't

50:59

a subject she would listen to or believe.

51:02

Everyone we knew had parents like ours.

51:04

We all thought this is how everyone's families

51:06

and lives were. Now

51:08

the premise of the story.

51:10

In 2000 a Jehovah's Witness came

51:12

to our mom's door.

51:13

Surprise! It was mom's old party

51:15

girlfriend Kathy. Kathy

51:18

reformed and found Jehovah. She'd

51:20

given up her worldly ways and was going

51:22

to be one of the 144,000 that go to the kingdom of heaven.

51:27

As part of the JW's you go house to house

51:29

with lighthouse publications. JW's

51:31

newsletters of faith. They preach

51:34

the kingdom good news in all the earth and

51:36

make disciples of people of all the nations.

51:39

JW's have many sex offenders. They

51:42

believe after you're baptized you're forever

51:44

changed. Well we all know that isn't

51:46

true. Being the narcissist mom is

51:48

she had to do it. She had to have superiority.

51:52

In her words I want to be somebody.

51:54

This changed our lives

51:56

even more for the worse.

51:58

When nanny passed in 2002 Kathy

52:00

told mom not to let us say goodbye at the hospital.

52:03

She didn't want my mom to have a funeral for nanny saying

52:06

it's just her shell. Thankfully

52:09

my only uncle did have the funeral and

52:11

made sure we were there. Kathy was

52:13

furious. After

52:15

that ordeal Kathy became the leader of my

52:18

family. Mom gave her full control

52:20

over us girls. Take us wherever

52:22

she felt, stay at her house, and follow

52:24

the rules.

52:26

She made us go to the kingdom hall

52:27

and conferences with her.

52:29

She made my sisters and I go to random people's

52:31

homes to preach. She told us

52:33

we weren't allowed to wear pants, speak without

52:35

being spoken to, and we were

52:37

told to always listen to the

52:39

elders. We really didn't

52:42

know our mom, but I knew I couldn't

52:44

trust her or these church people. I

52:46

knew I had to be rebellious. I finally

52:49

stood my ground after two sisters, 17 and 18, told

52:51

me they were both pregnant

52:54

by a married elder. By elder

52:56

he was over 60. He

52:58

led meetings at the hall. He had meetings

53:01

in his home and one-on-one sessions to help

53:03

deepen the faith. We've all

53:05

come to know this as grooming. Why

53:07

couldn't mom see that? I finally

53:10

flat-out refused to go. I

53:11

threatened to physically fight her and run away

53:13

with my sisters.

53:15

This just led to more drama between my mom

53:17

and step guy and myself. Oh

53:19

and Kathy who told my parents I needed

53:22

to go and stay with her to learn manners. I'd

53:25

love to tell you that things became great, but

53:27

it just got really bad. We stopped

53:29

going to the Hall of Cults, but the neglect

53:32

and abuse ramped up to a hundred. Many

53:34

times we had no gas, electricity, water,

53:37

food, or

53:37

clothes for school.

53:39

Child Protective Services came and left us

53:41

there. It

53:42

was hell.

53:43

That was seventh to ninth grade.

53:45

Next time I write in I can tell you about tenth grade

53:47

to freshman year of college. Our

53:49

family was approved for exchange students.

53:52

It's a program that places kids in shitty homes

53:54

like the foster care system. Vet the people.

53:57

Mother internationally traveled to help one student.

54:00

and she tried pimping me out to marry one for papers.

54:03

One day I'll write a book of all the misadventures that

54:05

led me to where I am now. All

54:07

three of us are now safe. We're

54:09

all healthy, we're all alive, and

54:12

we all are victims and we are

54:14

survivors. Thank you for sharing

54:16

our heartbreaking moments and giving others strength.

54:19

If I can stand up and rebel, we all

54:22

can. P.S. I'd love 50 grand,

54:24

but I'd wrap M&Ms lose yourself on stage

54:26

with them for free. If you have one shot,

54:29

one opportunity, seize everything you ever

54:31

wanted in one moment, would

54:32

you capture it or just let it slip?

54:35

I took it and got out of hell. Well,

54:39

there's our first 50 grand. Ding,

54:41

ding, ding. We did it. But

54:44

yeah, wow. This

54:47

is common because the surgeon I had been talking

54:49

to said some patients that are isolated,

54:52

sometimes these door-to-door people become their

54:54

only connection

54:57

to the world. For Mariah's mom, it's

54:59

like, I need childcare. I need someone to get me

55:01

out. I need assistance

55:03

with this lifestyle I'm at. The sad

55:06

thing is, is they're just falling into something

55:08

else that's worse. Yeah, yeah, for sure. No,

55:10

I think, I mean, people

55:13

that are in vulnerable states are constantly

55:15

searching for something. We've seen

55:17

that a lot of times they're

55:20

prime pickings for cults

55:22

because they do want to be somebody. They want

55:24

to feel like they're making something.

55:28

Sadly, they can't see the forest

55:30

for the trees and don't realize that they are getting

55:32

themselves and their children into

55:34

a terribly abusive situation. And

55:37

Mariah, I'm so sorry that you

55:40

and your sisters,

55:42

your

55:43

tales of abuse went unheard

55:45

and that you had

55:47

to kind of become a mom

55:49

to them to protect them. We talked

55:52

in the Quiverful movement episodes

55:54

about that prenification and how that's

55:57

another way of robbing a child of

55:59

their childhood is. You're put in a position

56:01

where you have to be the parent to your younger

56:03

siblings when you're

56:05

not equipped to handle that. Of course

56:08

not. You're a child yourself.

56:10

So I'm so sorry. I'm

56:12

so glad that you're

56:14

out now and you are definitely

56:16

victims. You're also survivors and

56:21

your story is going to help

56:24

so many others. The

56:27

idea of having to be a teenager

56:29

and the alarm bells in your head

56:31

going off going, we are in danger and there are no

56:33

adults are saying anything. The amount

56:35

of pressure that puts on you. I'm sorry

56:38

Mariah, you had to go through that. Thank

56:40

you for sharing and thank you for rebelling and

56:42

hopefully other people feel like they can rebel too.

56:44

Like you said, you can just get inspired

56:46

by that. It's like

56:49

silly but it's also like those things

56:51

sometimes we need those words. You

56:53

can do it kind of words and if it comes from Eminem

56:55

or one of your fellow XJWs, you can do it.

56:58

Oh for sure. Well and like you said, you're

57:01

young and you know you're in trouble but the adults

57:03

are the ones that are impregnating

57:05

the 17 and 18 year old girls.

57:10

They're 60 and married.

57:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, there's a lot

57:14

of cases of that. And it's all fucking covered

57:16

up. It's all covered up. You think that elder

57:18

got disfellowshipped? Nah.

57:21

He was probably praised. Probably doesn't even, nobody

57:23

even knows. Now he's probably got two

57:25

kids by a couple teenagers. Yeah,

57:27

he probably got moved to a different Kingdom Hall and is

57:29

in charge of something. Probably

57:32

going around door to door with kids from

57:34

what we've seen. That seems to be what they do. They

57:36

just move you to new places. No big deal. Yeah, I

57:39

apologize for straight up yelling in the

57:41

mic just then. Well, this is the kind of

57:43

thing that like you and I have both been like, oh,

57:45

I want to punch something. I'm

57:47

really going to feel bad. I'm going to

57:49

find a rage room. Still a thing. Do

57:52

we have the locally? You got a rage room. I'm

57:54

about to turn my garage into one. Punching

57:58

walls. Truly, though. Well,

58:00

thank you, Mariah, for sharing that with us.

58:05

Sinister Hood will be right back.

58:08

My brother-in-law died suddenly, and

58:11

now my sister and her kids have to sell

58:13

their home. That's why I told my husband

58:15

we could not put off getting life

58:17

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58:19

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58:21

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58:25

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58:27

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58:29

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58:35

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The subject

1:00:00

line is, Jehovah's Witness in Ireland.

1:00:02

Hi girls, thanks so much

1:00:04

for highlighting what so many have been going through

1:00:07

in silence. Your empathy, compassion,

1:00:09

respect for victims of crimes and cults is one

1:00:11

of the reasons I listen in every week. That

1:00:13

and your humor, impeccable research and

1:00:16

relatable bowel issues. Anyway,

1:00:19

I'm a former JW in Ireland. The

1:00:21

core beliefs and traditions are the same worldwide,

1:00:24

but every country has different attitudes to various

1:00:26

aspects. Many here are first

1:00:28

or second generation converts who would have

1:00:31

grown up believing mostly Catholic teachings

1:00:33

about heaven and hell, for instance. Once

1:00:35

they became JWs, they followed every

1:00:37

rule and principle with equal fervor.

1:00:40

The rest are made up of UK JWs that

1:00:43

come over thinking they're converting the savage

1:00:45

masses and making sure the lax

1:00:47

Irish congregations are all behaving themselves,

1:00:50

following the rules properly.

1:00:52

Considering the issues between the two countries,

1:00:54

this goes down about as well as you'd think.

1:00:57

There's so many things I could talk about that

1:00:59

would be so bizarre to most people, but

1:01:01

we're so normal to someone who grew up knowing nothing

1:01:03

else. I'll share one example that now

1:01:06

I find kind of funny and embarrassing, but

1:01:08

at the time, felt like a life and

1:01:10

death decision.

1:01:12

My fellow ex JW friend has insisted

1:01:14

it be this story as we've laughed about the absurdity

1:01:16

of it several times. The

1:01:20

JWs release tons of literature every year,

1:01:22

but some things are specifically used within the

1:01:24

organization for education and training purposes.

1:01:27

One of these is the Young People Ask book.

1:01:30

From a fairly young age, we studied this

1:01:32

with our parents on family study nights. Every

1:01:35

family is different, but this wasn't optional

1:01:37

in ours. The book taught us how to

1:01:39

deal with any potential threat to our faith and

1:01:42

the proper way to conduct ourselves as JWs. It

1:01:45

covered everything from peer pressure in school

1:01:47

to attending parties or spending time

1:01:49

with worldly people to whether or

1:01:52

not we should attend higher education. Not

1:01:54

was the only acceptable option here. We

1:01:57

were taught essentially from a very young

1:01:59

age never to stray from JW teachings

1:02:02

or we would put our relationship with Big J

1:02:05

at risk. Thanks to this book,

1:02:07

we were taught from a very young age that any

1:02:09

kind of self-exploration was strictly

1:02:12

prohibited, especially sexually.

1:02:15

Sex and masturbation were absolutely off-limits,

1:02:18

and sex was only allowed within marriage. Even

1:02:20

looking at someone with any kind of lustful thoughts

1:02:23

was frowned upon, as, according to JW

1:02:25

Publications, it quite often led

1:02:27

to vaguely terribly wonderful sexual

1:02:30

situations that would cost us our relationship

1:02:32

with God and therefore our life

1:02:35

or hope for everlasting life in the new system,

1:02:37

to be precise. This

1:02:39

led to thousands of very sexually

1:02:41

repressed young people who felt shame over

1:02:44

every normal healthy desire they had.

1:02:47

Most ended up marrying far too young just

1:02:49

to get laid, only to be stuck in

1:02:51

a marriage they didn't want with someone

1:02:53

they didn't particularly like for the

1:02:55

rest of their potentially endless lives.

1:02:59

The divorce is also against the rules, unless

1:03:01

a spouse cheats, abuses the other, or

1:03:03

does not provide for the family financially

1:03:06

or spiritually. Even then, the

1:03:08

spouse not at fault would still be encouraged

1:03:10

by the congregation elders to forgive the other,

1:03:13

even in cases of abuse. One

1:03:17

big issue for the organization as a whole was

1:03:19

how easily available porn became.

1:03:22

This led to people being disfellowshipped for watching

1:03:25

porn and many talks and articles

1:03:27

about the dangers of porn.

1:03:29

Sorry if this is long-winded, but I need to give

1:03:31

a little context as to why my situation

1:03:34

screwed me up so much.

1:03:36

As a teen, I was pretty normally curious,

1:03:39

but because of the previously stated reasons,

1:03:41

this led to feelings of shame and disgust

1:03:44

about myself that took years to heal.

1:03:47

As I got older, the shame only got

1:03:49

worse. I felt dirty and tainted,

1:03:51

like I had no right to a relationship with

1:03:53

God, and that if people knew the truth about

1:03:56

me, I'd never get over the shame and

1:03:58

humiliation. Due

1:04:00

to past events, I already had severe anxiety

1:04:02

and depression, and at this time in my life,

1:04:05

it was mostly going untreated. I

1:04:07

told myself I had no right to any kind

1:04:09

of joy or happiness when I was hiding

1:04:12

such a disgusting secret. It

1:04:15

affected my mental health so much, I

1:04:17

was constantly debating suicide. In

1:04:20

my early twenties, there was a talk at

1:04:22

one of the conventions about how much guilt can weigh

1:04:24

you down, and how freeing it is

1:04:26

to confess to your elders, kind,

1:04:28

understanding men who won't judge, blah

1:04:31

blah blah. Basically, if you confess,

1:04:33

repent, and accept the advice of your congregation

1:04:36

elders, all the guilt goes away, and

1:04:38

you're back in Big J's good books. That

1:04:42

was all I needed to hear, suicide having

1:04:44

been my only option to date. At least

1:04:47

to my mentally ill state, it seemed

1:04:49

to be a good idea. The minute I

1:04:51

got home from that convention, I contacted

1:04:53

the elders I trusted most and asked for

1:04:55

a visit. I wasn't told who would

1:04:57

be visiting, but the last two people

1:05:00

I needed to talk to about my crippling

1:05:02

shame turned up at my door a few

1:05:04

days later. My best friend's dad,

1:05:07

whose house had been my second home throughout

1:05:09

my teens, and with him, her

1:05:12

new husband.

1:05:14

I decided to do this no matter what,

1:05:16

so I invited them in, made us all

1:05:18

a cuppa, and sat down to tell them my

1:05:20

dirtiest secrets. Remember, I was

1:05:23

in my early twenties, having been very

1:05:25

sheltered my entire life, and now

1:05:27

sat in a room with two men in their fifties,

1:05:30

bearing my soul. It was excruciatingly

1:05:33

humiliating and makes me so angry

1:05:35

to think about now that I know better. They

1:05:39

asked about how often I watched porn, and even

1:05:41

what kind. At one point, my

1:05:43

BFF's dad asked me, did you

1:05:45

masturbate while watching the porn? I

1:05:48

was confused because I wasn't exactly watching

1:05:50

it for the plot, and replied, yes,

1:05:52

of course. Even the other elder

1:05:55

looked a little confused and embarrassed at the question,

1:05:57

and they quickly moved on. I

1:05:59

still laughed. about that bit, messed up as

1:06:01

the situation was. His question really

1:06:03

threw me at the time. I've told friends the

1:06:05

story, and they now randomly ask if I

1:06:08

masturbate while watching the porn. Anyway,

1:06:11

they thanked me for my honesty, prayed for

1:06:13

my spiritual well-being, and kindly pissed

1:06:15

off. I felt so relieved. Like

1:06:18

now, finally, my prayers would be listened to, my

1:06:20

ministry would be more effective, and I

1:06:22

wouldn't feel too ashamed to be in the Kingdom Hall

1:06:24

with my spiritual brothers and sisters.

1:06:27

It took a few more years

1:06:28

for me to wake up and leave, but almost

1:06:30

a decade later, I'm finally free,

1:06:32

living a life I choose, and despite

1:06:34

its ups and downs, truly, finally,

1:06:36

in joy. I have

1:06:38

true friends who love me for who I

1:06:40

am and never let me feel alone in life.

1:06:43

It cost me almost everything, including

1:06:45

my family and many friends, but

1:06:47

I hope one day that they see the light and find

1:06:50

a way out, though I understand how difficult

1:06:52

that is. I'm also expecting my

1:06:54

first child, and can't wait to unconditionally

1:06:57

love and support them, to give them

1:06:59

the opportunities in life I never had

1:07:01

because my parents refused me even the most

1:07:04

basic childhood. Thanks

1:07:06

for reading this, and also thanks to everyone

1:07:08

who wrote in their experiences. They

1:07:10

gave me the courage to share mine, and

1:07:12

I hope with all my heart they are finally

1:07:14

living true to themselves, and if not, then

1:07:17

I hope they find their way out and get to

1:07:19

live a life of their own choosing. It's

1:07:21

absolutely worth it. For

1:07:23

more info, check out JWFacts.com, ABC

1:07:27

Australia's Doc Bearing Witness, and

1:07:29

a guy on YouTube called Fallen Towers who talks

1:07:31

about his journey as an elder who made the choice

1:07:33

to leave. The elders also have a

1:07:35

handbook called Shepherd the Flock of God,

1:07:37

an interesting and troubling read,

1:07:39

especially in the sections dealing with abuse.

1:07:42

Thanks again for reading this.

1:07:46

Give

1:07:46

me Armageddon before

1:07:50

I sit across

1:07:53

from my best friend's father

1:07:56

and husband to

1:07:58

talk about Masturbation

1:08:01

and porn. Did you masturbate

1:08:03

while watching the porn? No, I took

1:08:05

notes. I just I I

1:08:08

just made a cup of tea and I just watched it for the plot

1:08:10

mainly like what kind of what's the name

1:08:12

of the porn? Where did you see it? Do you have a link you

1:08:14

can share for research purposes?

1:08:17

Only why I mean they know

1:08:20

who they're sending out so they know

1:08:22

they're sending this

1:08:24

girl's best

1:08:26

friend's father and husband who

1:08:30

I'm going to assume is Significantly

1:08:34

older if the best friend is

1:08:36

around the same age early 20s Is

1:08:38

there a 30 year age gap or you are best because

1:08:41

I have friends who are in their staff? Yeah, could be either

1:08:43

it could be an older friend could be either Oh, but

1:08:45

if you're both in your 20s and the husband's in his

1:08:48

50s and either way imagine

1:08:50

then you're like, oh, okay Well, here's

1:08:53

everything so I'll see you tomorrow

1:08:55

night for dinner I how

1:08:58

would you ever look them in the eyes again?

1:09:00

It's such a power

1:09:03

and control move to

1:09:06

be like oh you're gonna have to tell

1:09:08

us all of this and now we

1:09:10

know and You know

1:09:12

that they know and so that's all they're thinking

1:09:15

about any time they see you from then on out Even

1:09:17

if they're not they are you like subconscious

1:09:20

Yeah Whatever the title was

1:09:22

to like they're gonna remember it unless you

1:09:24

didn't have like an actual I'm envisioning like Buffy

1:09:27

the butt slayer or something

1:09:29

like, you know, like where there's like a silly name to it But

1:09:32

it no matter what even if it you just sort

1:09:34

of said, I don't know just people having sex whatever

1:09:35

it doesn't matter it's the fact that

1:09:38

They asked that and you they now know

1:09:40

that it's like you can't know certain things about people.

1:09:42

Oh I

1:09:45

can't imagine I can know and you're

1:09:48

I mean I think this and the

1:09:51

very first one we read that both, you

1:09:53

know involved like natural

1:09:55

feelings of your own sexuality

1:09:58

urges that are

1:10:00

Everybody's got for the most part,

1:10:03

you know, and you're,

1:10:06

it's natural to want to explore that and

1:10:08

you're shamed for that. And that

1:10:10

does lead to so

1:10:12

many people repressing their sexuality,

1:10:15

which leads to self-harm and suicide.

1:10:18

Or like they said, you just

1:10:20

want to get married so you can get laid. Well,

1:10:23

okay, now you got laid. It wasn't

1:10:25

everything you thought it was going to be. You're 20

1:10:27

years old and you're stuck with somebody you don't

1:10:30

even particularly like or

1:10:32

apparently forever because you can't divorce.

1:10:35

Right? Or you can if they're abusive, but

1:10:37

you should give them another chance. But also even if

1:10:39

they're abusive, give them another

1:10:41

shot. Yes, it's an issue. Oh,

1:10:44

very much. Huge. Because

1:10:46

again, it's like, well, brother Jim didn't

1:10:48

mean that, you know, he was probably just having

1:10:50

a bad day. It's like, no. Well,

1:10:53

also, it's the male headship.

1:10:56

If the male is in charge, then, you know,

1:10:58

I mean, well, were you listening?

1:11:01

Did you, you know, I mean, he's in charge.

1:11:04

If I mean, if the if you're

1:11:06

they're allowed to beat their kids, if

1:11:09

they're allowed to spank them, I mean, what's the difference

1:11:11

that in then? Okay, well,

1:11:13

it's also okay to hit your wife. It's

1:11:16

despicable. And yes, we will be talking

1:11:19

about this shepherd the flock of God

1:11:21

and the episode. We've

1:11:23

had many people mention that and yeah,

1:11:25

troubling read is a good way to put it. Yeah,

1:11:28

just a couple chapters into the 290 pages

1:11:31

and it was the updated May 2023 version of

1:11:34

it. And I was shouting Paris

1:11:36

goes, what? And I go, I said they don't need

1:11:38

lawyers in Armageddon, but they do now

1:11:40

at times like what the fuck wrote

1:11:42

this? Yeah. So yeah, it is mending.

1:11:45

But also interesting, there's these like secret documents

1:11:47

that tells you what to do and how to treat people. But

1:11:50

this whole dad and brother or sorry,

1:11:52

dad and best friend husband showing up. I'm

1:11:55

not that that was not an accident. I know the

1:11:57

purpose. It seems like an extra layer

1:11:59

of shit.

1:11:59

shame and punishment that they were

1:12:02

inflicting upon her.

1:12:03

Absolutely. Well, thank you very much for sharing

1:12:06

that with us. Anonymous.

1:12:10

This next one is from Cindy and

1:12:12

the subject line is the sad,

1:12:14

sad unicorn. I was

1:12:16

raised JW J dub by parents

1:12:18

that weren't particularly strong in the faith until

1:12:21

I stepped away about 25 years ago. Now

1:12:24

they're in it to win it. My freaky

1:12:26

experience is really not mine, but the young girl,

1:12:28

let's call her Kelly, that the elders assigned

1:12:31

to teach me their ways. We were covering

1:12:33

a section on demons and Kelly told me

1:12:35

I needed to get rid of anything and everything

1:12:38

that was mythological because it could

1:12:40

be possessed by demons.

1:12:42

I collected unicorns as a young girl

1:12:44

and I had quite a lot of them, especially

1:12:47

my little pony unicorns and Pegasus.

1:12:50

I used to send off for them in the mail. It

1:12:52

was one of my great joys of childhood.

1:12:55

Kelly told me I needed to get rid of all

1:12:57

of them. I

1:12:58

was devastated.

1:12:59

When I resisted, she told me her story

1:13:02

to scare the shit out of me and submit.

1:13:05

Kelly told me she had received some dolls

1:13:07

from Mexico and in the middle of the night,

1:13:09

she swore she saw their eyes glow red.

1:13:12

Kelly told her mom and dad and they put the dolls

1:13:15

on the barbecue and lit them on fire. Kelly

1:13:18

said the doll screamed and screamed as

1:13:20

they went up in flames.

1:13:22

Well,

1:13:22

her story worked

1:13:24

and sadly, I got rid of all my

1:13:26

unicorns.

1:13:27

I picked a few of my favorite, my little ponies

1:13:30

and performed surgery on them to remove their

1:13:32

horns and wings and I put band

1:13:34

aids, bandages or clothes over the holes

1:13:36

left in the plastic. I still

1:13:38

have a few of them to this day. So tragic.

1:13:42

Looking at this story now, I have no

1:13:44

idea how my unicorns and her dolls

1:13:46

were in any way the same. I also

1:13:48

don't understand why any mythological creature

1:13:50

would be more easily possessed than a doll.

1:13:52

But that's my crazy

1:13:54

story.

1:13:55

Keep it creepy, Cindy.

1:13:58

P.S. I also just remember

1:13:59

She taught me if I was ever scared to say

1:14:02

the name Jehovah over and over again

1:14:04

to scare off the demons

1:14:06

Well,

1:14:06

that was it for me whenever I was alone I

1:14:09

was scared to death of demons and would just

1:14:11

mutter Jehovah incessantly like

1:14:13

a broken record

1:14:14

I never was scared or worried until after

1:14:17

she literally put the fear of God or

1:14:19

the demons in me Heartbreaking

1:14:23

what a heartbreaking sad image

1:14:26

to think of just this little

1:14:28

girl Taking

1:14:30

her little toys apart because she's worried

1:14:32

she's gonna go to hell

1:14:35

if she has these these you

1:14:37

and If you're

1:14:39

if this girl's parents literally

1:14:42

put these dolls on a barbecue Look

1:14:45

them on fire, which maybe they

1:14:47

did What a dramatic

1:14:49

and traumatic way to

1:14:51

go about something like this? I mean all

1:14:53

of these things are such fear tactics

1:14:56

Fear Oh Here so much

1:14:59

behavior control through fear It's my

1:15:01

heart of control through this if this

1:15:03

then this will happen if you don't obey then

1:15:05

this whatever Publication

1:15:08

anybody that's listening to xjw. This is a serious

1:15:11

call to action If you know the source

1:15:14

of the birds plucking

1:15:16

out people's eyeballs children's

1:15:18

program, I don't know if it was a video

1:15:21

cartoon or like a Print

1:15:23

out in a wake magazine or in watchtower or something

1:15:26

in like five different interviews with

1:15:28

grown-up survivors in about their 40s They

1:15:31

all vividly recall a very

1:15:33

specific image. They'll be like, oh, yeah, they told

1:15:36

us it was Armageddon I was really afraid especially

1:15:38

you know They they showed that picture where everybody's

1:15:41

eyes were getting plucked out by the birds and they told me

1:15:43

that my worldly friends that would happen to them and

1:15:45

then in a totally different interview from years

1:15:47

later someone around that same age is like Yeah,

1:15:50

and then she once I saw the birds fucking people

1:15:52

sized out So what was that because why did you

1:15:54

show that to children and it fucked them up?

1:15:56

It caused this massive amount of fear and anxiety

1:15:59

in these little kids that they have to unwind

1:16:01

four decades later. Well, that's what

1:16:03

they want. They want you to,

1:16:06

to live in a state of fear and anxiety because

1:16:08

then they can control you. I think

1:16:10

for kids, especially, uh, visual

1:16:14

looking at something visual really sticks

1:16:17

with you. And if you see something that

1:16:19

traumatic, it's such a young age,

1:16:22

then yeah, it's going to last and

1:16:24

you're going to have to unpack that

1:16:26

when you're, you're able to hopefully

1:16:29

finally step away from this and get

1:16:32

some sort of a life back. Thank you very

1:16:34

much, Cindy, for sharing that. And,

1:16:37

uh, uh, I'm sorry about

1:16:39

your model of pony dolls. It sounds so frivolous,

1:16:42

you know what I mean? But it isn't. There's certain things

1:16:44

like that that are so sacred when you're so little

1:16:47

and this, the visual of her cutting her model

1:16:49

of ponies, because my niece is love unicorn.

1:16:51

And I was like, why is this image making me cry

1:16:54

so much? And then I really had to think about

1:16:56

it because I just, I just saw my nieces

1:16:58

at their, their six and eight. I just saw them. And

1:17:00

so it seems frivolous, but I'm sorry that

1:17:02

happened, Cindy. It's not frivolous at all. No,

1:17:05

it's not. And yeah, it's not just the

1:17:08

image for me of like, Ella doing

1:17:10

something like this, but the

1:17:13

emotional heartache

1:17:15

that that child feels of like,

1:17:18

I don't want to be doing this, but I have

1:17:20

to, or I'm going to die. And these

1:17:23

are my little friends that, you

1:17:25

know, I, I love sending off for them. Something

1:17:29

so small that yeah,

1:17:32

it doesn't have to be this

1:17:34

huge thing to be taken away. But

1:17:37

every,

1:17:38

everything

1:17:39

is something demonic

1:17:42

or, you know, worldly. It's all,

1:17:44

unless it comes from the

1:17:47

JW doctrine specifically, your

1:17:50

hat, your

1:17:51

to have nothing to do with it. Right.

1:17:54

And you should be afraid of it because it will, you'll

1:17:56

become possessed and, you know, yada, yada. So

1:17:59

yeah.

1:18:00

I want you to send

1:18:04

us your address. Please,

1:18:07

email us your address. I'm sending you some My Little

1:18:09

Ponies. Hell yeah, I'll send you a badass unicorn.

1:18:11

Buy all the My Little Ponies. And that goes for everybody.

1:18:14

Right, treat your inner child. If you didn't get these

1:18:16

things when they were little, spoil

1:18:18

your own kids, but also spoil yourself.

1:18:21

Go out and if you weren't allowed to have My Little

1:18:24

Ponies, buy every fucking My Little Pony you

1:18:26

see from now on. Whatever it is

1:18:28

that helps you heal that inner

1:18:30

child, celebrating Christmases,

1:18:32

getting a Christmas tree, even if it

1:18:35

seems silly or whatever,

1:18:37

stuff

1:18:38

like that.

1:18:40

I think little things like that

1:18:42

can really help your

1:18:44

mental well-being when you're

1:18:46

thinking back on all of the things

1:18:49

that were taken from you as a kid. For

1:18:51

sure, taking care of your

1:18:52

inner child.

1:18:56

Mr. Hood will be right back.

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1:20:31

Well, this last one is from Chandler and

1:20:34

the subject line is, Jehovah's Witness

1:20:36

Account, My Coming Out. Hey

1:20:39

guys, I appreciate you taking the time to cover

1:20:41

this topic. Jehovah's Witnesses seem

1:20:43

to always be an enigma to people and

1:20:45

it is somewhat rare to find those who have left, so

1:20:48

it has been both jarring and comforting

1:20:50

for me to hear the stories of others. In

1:20:52

my time as a Jehovah's Witness, I experienced

1:20:55

numerous traumas and abuse, but for

1:20:57

the sake of my own mental health and what could be

1:20:59

helpful in sharing, I will just share

1:21:01

my coming out with you. I

1:21:03

was one of Jehovah's Witnesses until I was 16

1:21:06

years old. My parents divorced when

1:21:08

I was 3 and I was raised by my mother.

1:21:11

The entirety of her family was and

1:21:13

still is in the truth, in

1:21:15

a deep rooted capacity. My

1:21:18

grandfather serves as a circuit overseer.

1:21:20

My uncle and brother-in-law are elders in their

1:21:23

congregations. My sister, mother,

1:21:25

grandmother, aunts and cousins are

1:21:28

also pioneers in the door-to-door ministry.

1:21:32

I was in the ministry as young as 7 years

1:21:34

old, was baptized at the age of 13 and

1:21:36

a pioneer in the ministry

1:21:38

at 14, meaning I would log

1:21:41

approximately 50-70 hours

1:21:43

in the door-to-door ministry a month. I

1:21:45

was taught that the world is a rapidly decaying

1:21:48

place and you should make the utmost

1:21:50

effort to detach yourself from it as much

1:21:52

as possible. I.e., not

1:21:54

pursuing higher education, not participating

1:21:57

in politics, not seeking secular

1:21:59

success.

1:21:59

us,

1:22:00

not having relationships with those outside of

1:22:02

the truth. The

1:22:07

teaching is that we are living in the last days,

1:22:09

and since any given day could be Armageddon,

1:22:12

you must treat each day as if it is the

1:22:14

end. It was difficult to navigate

1:22:16

being young and wanting to absorb the

1:22:18

world around me when I had heard so

1:22:20

much about the dangers of the world around me and

1:22:23

the impending doom. We

1:22:25

were discouraged from questioning the ruling of the

1:22:27

governing body or teachings,

1:22:29

but my discomfort with myself

1:22:31

was growing the more I was learning.

1:22:33

I did not feel aligned with the publications

1:22:35

being studied and what was taught.

1:22:37

As I transitioned into high school, I started

1:22:40

to see the bubble I was living in.

1:22:42

I began questioning the organization, the

1:22:44

origins and practices. I did

1:22:46

not understand how we could possibly have

1:22:48

the answers to life and no one else did,

1:22:51

and beyond that, why were we supposed to hate

1:22:54

those who did not believe what we did? I

1:22:56

made the decision to leave the truth after

1:22:58

I could no longer deny that I was in fact

1:23:00

having homosexual thoughts, using

1:23:03

that phrase semi-ironically. It was

1:23:05

something that I had struggled with and hated myself

1:23:07

for for several years. After

1:23:10

all, we believed that homosexuality

1:23:12

was an affliction. It was not real.

1:23:14

It was not authentic. It was the

1:23:16

devil's persuasion. November 26,

1:23:21

2013, I tried to bring this up to my mom. I

1:23:23

was met with countless prayers and phone

1:23:26

calls to all of my family

1:23:27

pleading for me

1:23:29

to resist all thoughts and

1:23:32

urges. Unfortunately

1:23:34

for them, that did not persuade a change

1:23:36

of heart for me. My mom presented

1:23:38

me with the ultimatum of going to live with my father

1:23:41

several states away who is gay and not

1:23:43

a Jehovah's Witness, or withdraw

1:23:45

from school and go live with my grandparents.

1:23:49

36 hours later, I was on a plane bound to

1:23:51

Dallas to live with my dad. November 28

1:23:53

will mark 10 years since I've seen my

1:23:55

mother or any of her family.

1:23:58

In the time following

1:23:59

Following my move, I initially had elders and

1:24:02

my mother

1:24:02

calling every week. After

1:24:04

a few months, the calls from elders dwindled,

1:24:07

as did the calls from my mom.

1:24:09

Eventually there was no more communication.

1:24:11

It was a brutal separation that

1:24:13

left me carrying doubt, guilt, and

1:24:16

shame. Isolation

1:24:18

is a tactic used by Jehovah's Witnesses in

1:24:20

an attempt to make you so desperate for connection

1:24:22

with family and friends that you return.

1:24:26

Because of how abrupt my move was, I never

1:24:28

had a meeting with the elders to go through the official

1:24:30

disfellowshipping process. However,

1:24:32

my family has stood by their decision to cease

1:24:34

all communication with me due to my

1:24:37

quote, lifestyle choices. The

1:24:39

past decade has been a blur, but it

1:24:41

has been a great gift. It's

1:24:43

frightening to look back and realize how bizarre it

1:24:45

all is. As a kid, it was all I

1:24:48

knew, and it seemed like I was the normal

1:24:50

one. That made me laugh. There's

1:24:52

been an equal amount of unlearning as there has been

1:24:54

learning. I finally learned who I

1:24:57

am, well, I will always be learning, and

1:24:59

that I can trust myself and the choices I

1:25:01

make with my free will. I have

1:25:03

found a career and field I excel

1:25:05

in. And most importantly, I do

1:25:08

not have shame in my queerness, how the

1:25:10

world sees me, or who I choose to

1:25:12

love. The fullness and freedom

1:25:14

I now live feels like a dream. I

1:25:16

am so happy I was able to make the first

1:25:19

decision of many for myself, and tremendously

1:25:21

grateful for the chosen family I have made

1:25:24

along this journey. For anyone

1:25:26

who is currently one of Jehovah's Witnesses and

1:25:28

looking to remove themselves, I encourage

1:25:30

you to build your support system beforehand. For

1:25:33

a Jehovah's Witness specifically looking to come out

1:25:35

in regards to gender or sexuality, please

1:25:38

prioritize your safety in that process.

1:25:41

Thank you again for telling our stories.

1:25:44

Warmly

1:25:45

Chandler. Well,

1:25:49

Chandler, I am so proud of you

1:25:52

for doing what you knew

1:25:54

you needed to do. And

1:25:57

it's your family's loss, like so many others.

1:26:00

that we have, this is just

1:26:02

one of dozens of emails

1:26:04

from people that have come

1:26:07

out and then their family and friends

1:26:09

completely shun them and

1:26:11

disown them. Or

1:26:14

we hear from those that knew

1:26:17

someone that didn't come out because

1:26:19

they were so afraid of what would

1:26:21

happen and instead chose

1:26:24

to complete suicide. So it's, again,

1:26:27

any organization that tells you who

1:26:32

you want to love is

1:26:34

not okay or who you are is

1:26:36

not okay

1:26:37

can go fuck themselves because at

1:26:40

the end of the day,

1:26:43

the only person you have left to answer to

1:26:45

is yourself. You know, I mean, Jehovah

1:26:48

or no Jehovah. Like you

1:26:50

get one life and

1:26:54

do you want to spend it feeling like

1:26:57

ashamed and disgusted

1:27:00

because of some manmade religion

1:27:02

told you you should

1:27:04

or

1:27:05

do you want to, like Chandler

1:27:07

said, try and build a support system,

1:27:10

do it safely, try and find a way out

1:27:12

and be able to live a happy

1:27:15

and truthful life to yourself. I hope

1:27:18

for all it's the latter. I know it is

1:27:20

often easier said than done but

1:27:23

I hope that some of these stories

1:27:25

of people getting out and finding

1:27:28

hope on the other side will inspire

1:27:31

others that maybe have been thinking

1:27:33

about the same thing.

1:27:35

No, definitely because you

1:27:37

have to give up so much. You know, the connection

1:27:39

with your family, especially like Chandler's family being

1:27:41

so ingrained like high up in the organization

1:27:43

and everybody in the family. So

1:27:46

that choice to live your full free,

1:27:48

happiest self comes at such a

1:27:50

great cost but I think

1:27:52

it all the time. So what are you gonna do with your one

1:27:55

wild and precious life, right? You only get

1:27:57

one time is so finite and so,

1:27:59

so precious. And to the sentence the

1:28:01

fullness and freedom I now live feels

1:28:03

like a dream Everybody

1:28:06

yeah, it makes me sad

1:28:08

because and I'm sure it makes all of us that because we

1:28:10

know there are people that are Actively currently

1:28:12

not living that and for everybody Everybody

1:28:15

deserves to wake up and say I'm so

1:28:17

happy my life feels like a dream and

1:28:20

I'm so happy for you Chandler I'm so

1:28:22

happy and that they should be able to wake

1:28:24

up Next to the person that they

1:28:26

want to wake up to and love the person

1:28:28

that they want to wake up to and be the person

1:28:31

That they know they are and

1:28:34

this month happens to be suicide

1:28:37

Prevention month so it's

1:28:40

a good time now to say if you or

1:28:42

anyone You know are experiencing suicidal

1:28:45

thoughts suicidal ideation, please.

1:28:47

No help is available You can text 9 8

1:28:50

8 to receive support during a mental

1:28:52

health crisis The 9 8 8 lifeline

1:28:55

also provides 24 7 free

1:28:58

and confidential support for people in distress

1:29:00

prevention and crisis resources

1:29:03

for you or your loved ones and

1:29:05

best practices for professionals in

1:29:07

the United States Yeah 9 8

1:29:10

8 I'm glad they made it so easy that You

1:29:12

know, it's so hard to try to Google something

1:29:14

or remember what look at and it's just that's it that

1:29:16

feeling that Overwhelming it's like you

1:29:19

don't have to do that because life can

1:29:21

be a dream. There is hope there is a way out

1:29:23

There is you know and just reminding people

1:29:25

and sharing these eight success stories,

1:29:27

you know people making their way out now It's not

1:29:30

a hundred percent success because you still got family

1:29:32

in you still have stuff to unpack and unwind

1:29:34

But just that one first breath of freedom

1:29:37

everybody deserves that I got a text

1:29:39

today because I Don't

1:29:41

know what I'm on but it was telling me

1:29:44

it's the end of suicide prevention month If

1:29:48

if you tell three friends about

1:29:50

the 9 8 8 lifeline and then they tell

1:29:52

three friends Like if we can all tell

1:29:55

three friends like this

1:29:57

is in the event you need this this is

1:29:59

available then that will really help spread

1:30:02

the word about such an important

1:30:04

resource for people.

1:30:05

And I love it. It's call it or text.

1:30:08

So that might be helpful if you're in a place you

1:30:10

can't call. The fact that you can do that too

1:30:12

is so tell everybody 988? Yes, yes.

1:30:16

Well, thank you to everybody that sent in

1:30:18

your stories. And to

1:30:21

those that weren't read today

1:30:22

as well, we hear you and see

1:30:25

you, and yours have

1:30:26

also impacted us. And

1:30:28

all of you are doing such good

1:30:31

work in telling your truth,

1:30:33

living your truth, sharing your stories.

1:30:36

We've seen so many

1:30:38

powerful things come

1:30:40

from this and people feel inspired

1:30:43

and heard. So

1:30:44

if you think no one's

1:30:47

on your side,

1:30:48

I promise you that's not true. You've at

1:30:50

least got two people. Yes, at least.

1:30:54

I'm not saying that anymore. I mean, I've

1:30:56

gone back and forth with a lot of people.

1:30:59

I've heard that this is a good resource, and

1:31:01

we'll link in our show notes for

1:31:04

this. Resources

1:31:06

for if you are an XJW

1:31:09

or you want to be an XJW. The

1:31:12

XJW subreddit has some physically

1:31:14

in, mentally out people who physically

1:31:16

still have to go to the meetings, and mentally they want to

1:31:18

weigh out. And there's resources

1:31:20

for that of, like Chandler said, setting yourself

1:31:23

up for a support network and planning

1:31:25

exit strategies and things like that. And

1:31:28

ways to do that in a safe way

1:31:30

before family, friends, elders, whoever

1:31:32

might find out. Absolutely. And

1:31:35

if you go, well, I don't really think it's a cult. If you have

1:31:37

to have a safety and exit plan, yes,

1:31:40

it is. Yeah, I mean,

1:31:42

I don't know how

1:31:45

anyone can really look at this and think

1:31:47

it's not a cult. And

1:31:49

then

1:31:52

you have to kind of extrapolate,

1:31:54

like these are extreme

1:31:56

things being said, but there's

1:31:58

a lot of religions out there that are going to be there. saying the

1:32:00

exact same things just in

1:32:02

a little more palatable way, you know,

1:32:05

a little less shocking, a

1:32:07

little lighter way, but it's still just as damaging.

1:32:09

I mean, it can't be. Someone mentioned Catholicism.

1:32:12

Yeah. Anytime

1:32:15

religion, that's what Parrish was saying, it's particularly

1:32:18

insidious to take these, because we

1:32:20

do live in a pretty predominantly

1:32:22

Judeo-Christian society, so using

1:32:25

these phrases and sort of systems

1:32:27

that everybody's familiar with to manipulate

1:32:29

and abuse people. The

1:32:31

people that are being abused are like, oh well, I have to

1:32:33

suffer because it's God. So then it's like you're

1:32:35

taking a system that has some suffering

1:32:38

built in and using that to manipulate people. And

1:32:40

because we all say, oh, Mary, Christ, you know, that Christian,

1:32:43

Christ, it's all part of it, it can

1:32:45

pretty quickly, religious abuse, and you rob

1:32:48

people of spirituality, which everybody's entitled

1:32:50

to. Yeah. Well,

1:32:52

again, thank you to everybody that sent

1:32:54

in your stories. And if anyone

1:32:56

else has a story for Freaky

1:32:58

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