0:00

This episode is brought to you by candy crush saga.

0:03

The holidays can be pretty hectic.

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So take a little time for yourself with the ultimate holiday.

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Treat the classic mash three puzzle candy crush saga.

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And right now you can catch the limited time events, sweet surprise season, and win sweet daily rewards.

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Now until January 1st, download from the app store, Google play or windows store for free terms and conditions apply.

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This episode is brought to you by CBS these days, even a short trip can feel like a big deal.

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He,

0:59

Hey, what's up y'all it's Joel, we're taking a break from the slow burn story this week to talk about slate plus, and how our members support the work we do here.

1:06

And if you want to skip promos and ads like this one, the best way to do that is by signing up for slate.

1:12

Plus, you can just go ahead and do that right now at slate.com/slow burn.

1:18

So here's what it's like making a narrative podcast like slow burn.

1:22

I started working on the season back in March and I immediately dove in by reading books and articles, watching documentaries and interviews and searching through archives.

1:30

This all helps the producers and I find the right people to talk to the people who were integral to the story who lived through it and can give us a better sense of everything that happened.

1:40

And we've talked to a lot of people so far.

1:42

I think we've done. I don't know about nearly 40 interviews so far this season alone, but it's slate plus memberships that allow us the time and resources to really give this story to due diligence.

1:53

We obviously try to include everything we've learned into the main show, but there's a lot of interesting stories that we just can't fit.

2:00

So that's why we do our bonus episodes where every week the producers and I get to tell you about the making of the show and you get to hear more from our really great sources this season.

2:09

So let's talk about some of the extended interviews you've missed.

2:12

So far.

2:13

First

2:13

we

2:13

had,

2:13

what's

2:13

believed

2:13

to

2:13

be

2:13

one

2:13

of

2:13

the

2:13

final

2:13

interviews

2:13

with

2:13

George

2:13

holiday,

2:13

the

2:13

man

2:13

who

2:13

caught

2:13

Rodney

2:13

King's

2:13

beating

2:13

on

2:13

tape

2:13

and

2:13

made

2:13

sure

2:13

everyone

2:13

else

2:13

got

2:13

to

2:13

see

2:13

it

2:13

holiday

2:13

died

2:13

in

2:13

September

2:13

of

2:13

complications

2:13

from

2:28

COVID-19. He was 61, but when we spoke with him in June, he was really open and told us everything about the tape, even this cool story that involves Arnold Schwartzenegger.

2:38

But what I couldn't believe was the story about how he sold the videotape.

2:42

You just get a $500 check from KCLA or because that's the figure that keeps coming up, you got $500.

2:49

So like, how did that come about?

2:51

And how did you get that money?

2:54

You know, remember all the other TV stations over the phone that very first night, Hey, we need a copy, the tape, we needed a copy of the tape.

3:00

So the next morning I called from my office, Caitlin, and say, Hey, I'm getting all these calls from these other stations.

3:05

And they were actually offering to pay like a hundred bucks, 150 bucks to get a copy of the tape.

3:11

And so I called him and said, Hey, I'd like to get my tape back so that I can make copies and just make a bit of money for, you know, from selling it to these people.

3:19

There was a lot of people wanting it.

3:21

So I figured it, it makes it a little bit of money there.

3:23

They said, sure, why don't you come on in and we'll get you, give you the tape bag.

3:28

So that afternoon I went to the CTLA.

3:30

They

3:30

kind

3:30

of

3:30

ushered

3:30

me

3:30

into

3:30

an

3:33

office. And they kind of, I realized now that the, it was a little bit of an ambush.

3:37

They had a video camera in there and they had somebody asking me questions and I wasn't paying a lot of attention, but they said, you know what?

3:45

We'd like to hold onto the exclusivity of this tape for another couple of days.

3:50

How about we give you a $500 check now we'll hold onto it for two more days, and then we give it back to you and you can disseminate it as you want.

3:58

And I figured, look, I don't have the means to make 10 copies because one of the things I was worried about is how am I going to make copies of this tape?

4:05

You know, it's, I don't have the equipment to do.

4:07

It would have to figure that out.

4:09

I said, okay, let's do that. Let's do the 500 now.

4:12

And then I'll worry about it later. So I got that check for $500 and I was going to go pick up the tape a couple of days later.

4:17

But by then it had been subpoenaed from channel five by the police department because they were doing their internal affairs investigation.

4:26

So I wasn't able to get the original back, but luckily I was able to get, they had made a VHS copy of it for me.

4:35

So I got that instead.

4:37

But then the, the original tape that got subpoenaed by the police department eventually made its way into the FBI, his hands, I guess that's because of the second trial and they have it to this day.

4:49

I've been trying to get it back and it's like talking to a wall, nothing, Man.

4:55

I think this is a tough question to ask, but what do you wish you knew then that you know about it today?

5:01

Like what do you think you would have done differently than, Oh,

5:04

totally marketed the tape differently.

5:07

I mean, it sounds like a, a crude thing to say you're marketing a tape of that is actually showing a gentleman getting beaten up.

5:14

Right. But, but yeah, I definitely would've gone about the way I handled the tape.

5:20

A lot differently.

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6:52

A lot of our sources have really helped us understand what Los Angeles was like.

6:56

And the 1980s and nineties, Edward Chang is a professor of ethnic studies and he was a member of the black Korean Alliance.

7:02

He told me about the cultural and social tensions that were building up by the time Latasha Harlins was killed by soon.

7:09

John do in 1991.

7:10

So

7:10

I

7:10

understand

7:10

that

7:10

you

7:10

arrived

7:10

in

7:10

the

7:10

United

7:10

States

7:10

in

7:10

1974

7:10

at

7:10

the

7:10

age

7:10

of

7:10

18,

7:10

you

7:10

got

7:10

there

7:10

obviously

7:10

at

7:10

a

7:10

very

7:10

fascinating

7:10

time,

7:22

right? Because this is like, you know, the first generation of Asian immigrants, but also Korean immigrants that have come to this country after the immigration act of 65.

7:32

Right? So you're seeing this unfold.

7:33

You notice this tension between recent immigrants and black Americans in LA.

7:39

Can you just like lay out what that landscape looked like at the time?

7:42

Cause you obviously, it was so salient the tension that you thought I've got to study this.

7:47

So like for people that were not around then, what was that like?

7:50

When were you seeing? Well, initially it was difficult because the majority of the Korean immigrant merchants didn't see that as a problem, they were working hard and they knew nothing but work, work, work.

8:02

So to them, they were just working to realize the American dream about, because I was fellow Korean immigrants, I was able to, to communicate in Korean language and persuaded them.

8:15

You know, you know, we need to reduce tension.

8:19

We need to understand each other better.

8:21

And so they gradually accepted me.

8:24

And sometimes I volunteered to work as a merchant on weekends.

8:28

Now I was able to get a full grasp of a growing tension between the two communities.

8:35

And I knew it was a ticking time bomb, no getting worse and worse.

8:42

What did the tension look like though? Like what is it like fights Or

8:45

what was it distrust? They really didn't trust each other.

8:48

You know, Korean immigrants spoke very little English language on able to communicate with our customers and many African-American customers didn't trust a cream or a transit.

9:01

There were lots of rumors going around at the time, lots of rumors about Korean immigrants, where do they get the money to start business?

9:09

Whereas, you know, African-Americans have been here more than 200 years and they're having a hard time getting loans from the financial institutions are able to start a businesses.

9:20

And yet here, you know, Korean merchants, Korean immigrants just landed a few months ago.

9:26

They're able to purchase grocery market or liquor store and set up stores in my community.

9:34

And, and so, you know, there's rumors of all going around date.

9:37

The U S government was providing special funding or assistance to cranberry chains and African-Americans are not right.

9:46

And Korean merchants are selling inferior products at a much higher price.

9:52

They were very complaining.

9:54

Korean merchants were rude and disrespectful towards the customers and they do not live in the community.

10:01

They do not give you back to the community.

10:03

You know, many Korean merchants di did he know anything about giving back to the community?

10:10

Because Korea was so poor.

10:12

Everyone is, you know, serve over malt at the time.

10:16

I know I, I went on Korean radio and newspaper and being, making no effort to make sure you need to learn proper indigenous advocates in the United States.

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11:01

One person we really wanted to focus on this season is LAPD chief Daryl gates.

11:05

We had a long interview with Jim Newton who covered the police for the LA times through the 1990s.

11:11

And Newton told us some really wild stories about chief gates that I think exemplifies the power he wielded over the city and the department at the time in your experience covering other law enforcement agencies.

11:22

Was there anything that distinguished the LAPD from those, or did you get the sense that it was fundamentally different in some sort of way from the other, you know, agencies that you were familiar with?

11:32

The One of the very first things I did in taking over the IPD was to go out to breakfast with Daryl gates, who was then the recently retired chief of the LAPD.

11:41

And the main thing that I was struck with from that minute is the degree of hostility from him toward the paper immediately transferred to me, by the way, I had never even met him and was hostile from the, almost the first words out of his mouth.

11:56

In fact, he picked up a menu, we had breakfast at a place in San Marino, suburban Los Angeles, near Pasadena.

12:02

He picked up the men here and he goes, oh, good, they've got quiche something for you, Jim.

12:06

And it was just like, you gotta be fucking kidding me.

12:09

Like we haven't even said hello, you know?

12:12

And he went on to tell me about a colleague that the LAPD had been spying on and they'd found cocaine in his, in a pocket of his pants at a laundromat and know, I mean, it was incredibly confrontational kind of threatening first experience.

12:28

And so anyway, back to your question, when I started covering LAPD, my first impressions were of the combative, not just a gates, although gates was the really first impression, but the combativeness or the institution, the hostility toward the paper that, you know, I must say that persisted through most of my time covering the police department, the LAPD, a lot of institutional defensiveness, a sense that others in the political and journalism universes were out to get them, that they had to band together to resist politics and kind of nosy civilians.

13:04

It was really striking for me.

13:07

I mean, I had covered city hall in Atlanta police related issues there.

13:10

I mean, I just had never run into an institution that seems so top to bottom hostile to any kind of innocent question, frankly.

13:20

Well, can I, I just want to kind of linger in that a breakfast with Daryl gates.

13:23

I like that introduction to him.

13:25

I mean, did Rick not tell you that, Hey man, by the way, chief gates kind of hates us.

13:31

I know I wasn't surprised that he didn't love the idea.

13:34

That was, I was, I pretty much knew that was going to, I just was surprised at how quickly that transferred to me personally.

13:39

I mean, listen, I spend most of my life talking to people in politics, right?

13:44

And most people in politics want to have a good relationship with the person covering them.

13:49

So even if they don't really like me, they don't go out of their way to tell me how much they disliked me.

13:55

It was honest to goodness. I mean, we, we met, you know, a couple of feet outside of the restaurant.

13:59

We walked inside, sat down and I don't recall even saying good morning, or how do you do before it was look, they've got key something for you.

14:06

You know, I think your point is exactly right.

14:08

I didn't expect that this was going to be a friendly get together or that it was going to be chummy or anything like that.

14:14

I just was surprised at how forward the hostility was and how much it seemed to be directed at me.

14:21

And first of all, kids had just retired, right? So there, wasn't a reason for him institutionally for him to butter me up in some way.

14:28

I mean, but you know, there's just a kind of human civility and a kind of strategic calculation that usually goes into that first meeting with a reporter.

14:37

So it was notably different than that.

14:39

And I was taken by that and here we are, 30 years later, I'm still talking about it.

14:43

So obviously it made an impression If

14:48

you're listening to this show, then you're probably a fan of unique and interesting stories.

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15:43

It was important for us to really get to know who Rodney king was beyond George holiday's videotape Johnny Kelly, who was one of King's best friends.

15:50

And later his body guard was an important source for that.

15:53

He was our second interview for this season and he gave us a lot of perspective on what it was like growing up with Rodney and how things changed for him after the beating.

16:01

All right. Let's go back to the very beginning then.

16:05

Let's, let's go back to your childhood because I know that you grew up in Pasadena and so this would have been like what?

16:11

The seventies? Eighties? Yes. You're growing up.

16:14

So for people that weren't around in like what was Pasadena like then?

16:17

Like what was it like growing Palestina

16:19

was nice. It was nice, quiet place.

16:21

They did have some gang activity.

16:23

We kind of stayed away from the gangs as a kid there, the police department was of shady, you know?

16:31

And that's just like every other police department today, you know, when you a color.

16:35

So that's what we had to deal with.

16:37

Mostly was the police even as a kid, huh?

16:40

Oh yeah. Most definitely as a kid.

16:42

What did that look like for y'all or would they just hassle y'all and you walking down the street or would it Oh

16:48

yeah. Yeah. You'd be walking down the street there, pull you over, check your pockets.

16:52

Half of you, as we was growing up, our parents would always tell us whatever you do, stay away from the police.

16:57

So we grew up knowing to stay away from the police.

17:01

Do you Remember meeting Glen?

17:02

Like the first time? Like how you met him?

17:05

Oh yeah. That's definitely. What, how was it?

17:07

Oh my God. Parents had bought me a dirt bike motorcycle.

17:09

And over by JPL there was a Frisbee park and there was a dam over there with water in it.

17:16

And Rodney was over there.

17:18

We was all kids. I was riding my bike and riding was over there getting ready to go fishing.

17:21

And so I stopped and I started talking to him and we was digging for her forearms so we can go fishing and we sat there all day.

17:30

He would've pulled in the water, try to fish and found out later there was no fishing.

17:36

Wait, how would this Look? How old I was about nine years old.

17:40

Oh man, this kind of sounds country.

17:43

Well, I came from the country. I was from little rock crack itself.

17:46

So yeah. I mean, first of all, I know that his, his pops was, was nickname king fish.

17:50

Yes. And it sounds like fishing was just like a big part of which I like to do, right?

17:55

Oh yeah. Most definitely fishing was a big thing for us.

17:57

That was our getaway. That was the only thing we had to do back then.

18:00

They didn't have Nintendos and all that type of stuff.

18:03

He had to get outside and do stuff.

18:05

As you got to the end of high school, like what was the directions y'all were headed in?

18:08

I was heading into the construction field, but for as Rodney, I actually thought he was going to be a pro baseball player.

18:13

Well, he was that good. Yeah. He was good. I thought he was going to go pro that's where it's hard.

18:17

Was that what happened? He ended up going to jail for one thing.

18:21

He started getting in trouble, started going off on her own path and that kind of ended things for him.

18:27

Did you know That he was going on the wrong path as it was happening?

18:30

I did. I did. I would. I would be with him sometimes we both was together going off on her own path, but he kind of took it further to the right.

18:38

And I went to the left, you know, I'm

18:42

not asking you to snitch, but he talked about drinking and smoking like at a very young age.

18:47

Right. So like was it that sort of stuff that was contributing to Oh

18:50

yeah. It was the drinking and smoking. Yeah, most definitely.

18:52

I mean, we would go to liquor stores and stuff and still beer and run out and that type of stuff, you know, I mean it was kids growing up, you know, there's nothing beautiful about it now.

19:01

But when you look back, that's what we was doing.

19:02

Did you Recognize him as having an alcohol problem?

19:05

Even as a kid?

19:07

I didn't recognize him as having an alcohol problem as a kid.

19:10

Cause we was both doing it and it didn't become a big problem until after the beaten, you know, he, I mean he would still appear here and Andrew color, alcohol hard liquor and stuff like that.

19:20

We both did. But after the incident, it triple, it was bad.

19:26

Okay. If you've made it this far, I know you're a fan of slow burn and your one slate plus membership can really help us continue making this show.

19:34

It's only $1 for your first month and you'll get access to all of these interviews and our behind the scenes stories of making the show and our slow burn bonus episodes.

19:43

Once you sign up, you won't hear any ads on any slate podcast and you'll get to read everything on slate.com.

19:50

Go find all your benefits.

19:52

Now it's slate.com/slow burn.

19:55

Tell them I sent you and thank you.

19:58

And if you can't swing a membership right now, please show your support by leaving us a rating and review every little bit of support counts.

20:07

Okay. That's all for now.

20:08

Or next week's show. We'll be talking about the trial.

20:11

Thanks for listening. This episode is brought to you by candy crush episode is brought to you by Candy Crush saga. The holidays can be pretty The holidays can be pretty hectic. So take a little time for yourself with the ultimate So take a little time for yourself with the ultimate holiday treat. The classic match three puzzle Candy Crush saga. And right now you can catch the limited time events, sweet surprise season, and win sweet daily And right now, you can catch the limited time events, sweet surprise season, and win sweet daily rewards like a super rare party booster and to ten gold bars. Don't miss Don't miss out. Play sweet surprise season in candy crush, saga, and crush it this holiday Sweet Surprise season in Candy Crush Saga and crush it this holiday season now until January first. Download from the app store, Google Play, or Windows Store for free. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by CBS these days, even a short trip can feel like a big episode is brought to you by CBS. These days, even a short trip can feel like a big deal. That's why CVS delivers prescriptions and essentials right to your front door for free CVS healthier made easier, not all prescriptions eligible for delivery restrictions That's why CVS delivers prescriptions and essentials right to your front door for free. CVS, healthier, made easier, not all prescriptions eligible for delivery, restriction supply visit CVS dot com slash delivery for details. He, Hey, what's up y'all it's Joel, we're taking a break from the slow burn story this week to talk about slate plus, and how our members support the work we do up y'all. It's Joel. We're taking a break from the slow brain story this week to talk about SLAIT plus and how our members support the work we do here. And if you want to skip promos and ads like this one, the best way to do that is by signing up for if you want us to get promos and ads like this one, The best way to do that is by signing up for slate. Plus, you can just go ahead and do that right now at slate.com/slow plus. You can just go ahead and do that right now at slate dot com slash burn. So here's what it's like making a narrative podcast like slow burn. I started working on the season back in March and I immediately dove in by reading books and articles watching documentaries and interviews and searching through archives. This all helps the producers and I find the right people to talk to. The people who are integral to the story, who live through it, and can give us a better sense of everything that happened. And we've talked to a lot of people so far. I think we've done, you know, I'll know about nearly forty interviews so far this season alone. But it's slate plus memberships that allow us the time and resources to really give this story to do diligence. We obviously try to include everything we've learned into the main show, but there's a lot of interesting stories that we just can't fit. That's why we do our bonus every week the producers and I get to tell you about the making of the show and you get to hear more from our really great sources this season. So talk about some of the extended interviews you've missed so far. First, We had what's believed to be one of the final interviews with George Holliday. The man who caught Rodney King's beating on tape and made sure everyone else got to see it. Holiday died in September of complications from COVID nineteen. He was sixty one. But when we spoke with him in June, he was really open and told us everything about the tape. Even this cool story that involves Arnold Swartznager. But what I couldn't believe was the story about how he sold the videotape. You just get a five hundred dollar check from KTLA or because that's the figure that keeps coming up. You got five hundred dollars. So, like, how did that come about? And how did you get that how did you get that money? You You know, remember all the other TV stations over the phone that very first night, Hey, we need a copy, the tape, we needed a copy of the know, remember all the other TV stations over the phone that very first night. Hey, we need to copy the tape. We need to copy the tape. SB6 the next morning I called from my office, Katie and I SB6, I'm getting all these calls from these other stations. And and they were actually offering to pay, like, hundred bucks, hundred and fifty bucks. To get a copy of the tape. And so I called them and said, hey, I'd like to get my tape back SB6 that I can make copies and and just make a bit of money for, you know, from selling it to these people. There was a lot of people wanting it, so I figured it makes a little bit of money there. They said, sure, why don't you come on in and we'll get get give you the the tape back. SB6 that afternoon, I went to this KTLA. They kind of ushered me into an office, and they kind of I realized now that the it was a little bit of an ambush. They had a video camera in there and they had somebody asking me questions and I wasn't paying lot of attention. But they said, you know what, we'd like to hold on to the exclusivity of this tape for another couple of days. How about we give you AA5 hundred dollar check now? We'll hold on to it for two more days and then we give it back to you and you can disseminate it as you want. And I figured, look, I don't have the means to make tech copies because one of things I was worried about is how am I Johnnie make copies of this tape? You know, it's I don't have the equipment do. It would have to figure that to do it. I would have to figure that out. I said, okay. Let's do that. Let's do the five hundred now, and then I'll worry about it later. So I got that check for five hundred dollars. And I was Johnnie go pick up the tape a couple of days later, but by then it had been subpoenaed from channel five by the police department because they were doing their in internal affairs investigations. So I wasn't able to get the original back But luckily, I was able to get they had made a VHS copy of it for me. So I I got that instead. But then the original tape that got subpoenaed by the police department eventually made its way into the FBI's hands. I guess that's because of the second trial. And they have it till this day. I've been trying to get it back and it's like talking to a wall. Nothing. Man, I think this is a tough question to ask, but what do you wish you knew then that you know about it today? Like, what do you think you would have done differently then? Oh, totally marketed the tape differently. I mean, it sounds like a crude thing to SB6, you're marketing a tape of that's actually showing a a gentleman getting beaten up. Right? But but, yeah, I definitely would have gone about the way I handled the tape a lot differently. Seasons are changing and so will your personal taste, are you ready for something new freshen up your fault with a change in decor all while upgrading your are changing, and so were your personal taste? Are you ready for something new? Freshing up your fall with a change in decor all while upgrading your comfort? That's where Brooklyn comes in Brooklyn and has something for your every comfort ne ideal for a seasonal That's where Brookline Inn comes in. Brookline Inn has something for your every comfort need ideal for a seasonal refresh because they're launching new products, colors, and patterns all the time. I'm talking buttersoft and breathable beats, plush and absorbent towels, cozy robes, and comfy loungewear you'll want to put on and never take off. 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Go to brooklyn dot com and use promo code slow burn to get twenty dollars off with the minimum purchase of one hundred dollars. That's BR00KLINEN dot com and enter promo code slow burn for twenty dollars off with a minimum purchase of one hundred dollars. That's brooklyn in dot com promo code slow burn. A lot of our sources have really helped us understand what Los Angeles was like in the nineteen eighties and nineties. Edward Chang is a professor of ethnic studies, and he was a member of the black Korean alliance. He told me about the cultural and social tension that were building up by the time Latasha Harlands was killed by Tsumja Doo in nineteen ninety one. So I understand that you arrived in the United States in nineteen seventy four at the age of eighteen. You got there obviously at a very fascinating time. Right? Because this is like you know, the first generation of Asian immigrants, but also Korean immigrants that have come to this country after the the immigration act of sixty five. Right? So you're seeing this unfold. You notice this tension between recent immigrants and black Americans and LA. Can you just, like, lay out what that landscape look like at the time? Because you obviously, it was so salient attention that you thought I've got to study this. So, like, for people that were not around then, what was that? like? When were you what were you seeing? Well, initially, you know, it was difficult because majority of premium mega merchants didn't see that as a problem. They were working hard. They knew nothing but work work work. So to them, they were just working to realize the American dream. But because I was fellow Korean immigrants, I was able to communicate in Korean language and persuaded them, you know, we need to reduce tension. We need to understand each other better. And so they gradually accepted me. And sometimes I volunteer to work as a merchant on weekends. Now I was able to get a full grasp of a growing tension between the two communities. And I I knew it was a ticking time bomb, not just getting worse and worse. What did the tension look like did the tension look like though? Like what is it like fights Like, was it, like, fight, Or what was it what was it? Distrust. They really didn't trust each other. You know, Korean immigrants spoke very little English language, unable to communicate effectively with the customers. And many African customers didn't trust korean merchants. There were lots of rumors going around at that time. Lots of rumors about Korean immigrants. Where did they get the money to start business, whereas, you know, African Americans have been here more than two hundred years, and they're having a hard time getting loans from the financial institutions are able to start businesses and yet hear Korean merchants, Korean immigrants. Just landed a few months ago. They are able to purchase grocery market or liquor store and set up stores in my community. And as, you know, there's rumors that were going around, they the US government was providing special funding assistance to Korean merchants and African Americans are not, right? And Korean merchants were selling inferior products at a much higher price. They were complaining that Korean merchants were rude and disrespectful to the customers and They do not live in the community. They do not give it back to the community. You know, many Korean merchants, they do you know anything about giving back to the community? Because Korea was so poor, everyone is in a survival mode. At the time, I know I I went on Korean radio and newspaper and by making, like, excellent efforts to make sure you need to learn proper, you know, business etiquette in the United States. States. Slow burn is brought to you by burn is brought to you by MailChimp. MailChimp is in the business of growing MailChimp is in the business of growing businesses. So no matter what stage you're in MailChimp smart marketing platform can help you grow and get your brand out So no matter what stage you're in, MailChimp's smart marketing platform can help you grow and get your brand out there. You're more than a small business, and Mailchimp's got intelligent marketing tools to help you grow it. With marketing automate design tools and recommendations that all work together to help you sell more stuff. Mailchimp, built for growing businesses. One person we really wanted to focus on this season is LAPD chief Daryl 1 person we really wanted to focus on this season is LAPD chief Daryl Gates. We had a long interview with Jim Newton, who covered the police for the LA Times through the nineteen nineties. And Newton told us some really wild stories about chiefgates that I think exemplifies the power he wielded over the city and the department at the time? In your experience covering other law enforcement agencies, was there anything that distinguish the LAPD from those? That you you get the sense that it was fundamentally different in some sort of way from the the other, you know, agencies that you were familiar with? 1 of the very first things I did in taking over the IVD was to go out to breakfast with Darryl Gates, who was then the recently retired chief of the IVD. And the main thing that I was struck with from that many is the degree of hostility from him toward the taper immediately transferred to me. By the way, I'd never and met him and he was hostile from the oh, almost the first words out of his mouth. In fact, he picked up a menu. We had breakfast at a place in San Marino, SB6 a relentless San in her Pasadena. He picked up the menu and he goes, oh, good. They've got Keith, something for you, Jim. And it's just like, oh, you gotta be fucking kidding me. I believe everything said, hello, you know. And he went on to tell me about a colleague that the LAPD had been spying on him. They found cocaine in his in a pocket of his pants at a laundromat. And, yeah, I mean, it was this incredibly confrontational kind of threatening first experience. And so anyway, back to your question, when I started covering LIPD, my first impressions were of the combative not just of gates, although gates was the really first impression, but of the combativeness of the institution, the hostility toward the paper, that, you know, I must say, that persisted through most of my time covering the police department, the LAPD. A lot of institutional of defensiveness, a sense that others in the political and journalism universes were apt to get them, that they had to band together to resist politics, and kind of nosy civilians was really striking for me. I mean, I had covered city hall in Atlanta, police related issues there. I mean, I just did never run into an institution that seemed so top to bottom hostile to any kind of innocent question, frankly. can I I just wanna kinda linger in that breakfast with Daryl Gates, sir, like that introduction to him. I mean, did Rick not tell you that, Hey man, by the way, chief gates kind of hates I mean, did Rick not tell you that, hey, man, by the way, chief case kinda hates us. No. III no. I wasn't surprised that he didn't love the eye. I was I I pretty much knew that was gonna I just was surprised at how quickly that transferred to me personally. Like, I mean, listen, I I spend most of my life talking to people 1 Right? And most people in politics wanna have a good relationship with the person covering them. So even if they don't really like me, they don't go out of their way to tell me how much they dislike me. It was honest to goodness. I mean, we we met, you know, a couple feet outside the restaurant. We walked inside SB6 down and I don't recall even saying good morning or how do you do before it was left. I've got key something for you. No. I think your point is exactly I didn't expect that this was Johnnie be friendly get together or that it was gonna be chummy or anything like that. I just was surprised at how forward the hostility was and how much it seemed to to be directed at me. First of all, kids had just retired. So there wasn't a reason for him institutionally for him to butter me up in some way. I mean, you know. But, you know, there's just a kind of human civility and a kind of strategic calculation that usually goes into that first meeting with reporter. So it was notably different than that, and I was taken by that. And I said, here we are thirty years later, I'm still talking about it. So obviously, we made an impression. If you're listening to this show, then you're probably a fan of unique and interesting stories. I wanna tell you about pockets. Pockets is a website and app that finds the most interesting, thought provoking, and entertaining articles from trusted sources around the Internet and puts all in one place. Low 1 time? Pocket lets you save articles as well as anything else you find online like videos, recipes, and shopping pages. To your personal pocket for digging into later. Pocket will even read stories you saved aloud to you. Like a podcast of back-to-back articles want to go deep on a like a podcast of back to back articles. Wanna go deep on topic. They also have some incredible curated collections that are hand-selected by pocket editors or an expert pocket partner like They also have some incredible curated collections that are hand selected by pocket editors or an expert pocket partner like me. Want to learn more about what we discussed in today's episode, go to pocket.com/slate and check out slow burn to see my collection of articles that dig deep into everything we talked Wanna learn more about what we discussed in today's episode? Go to pocket dot com slash sleep and check out slow burn to see my collection of articles that dig deep into everything we talked about. It was important for us to really get to know who Rodney King was beyond George Holliday videotape. Johnny who was one of King's best friends and later his bodyguard, was an important source for that. He was our second interview for this season, and he gave us a lot of perspective on what it was like growing up with Rodney and how things changed for him after the beating. Alright. Let's go back to the very beginning then. Let's let's go back to your childhood because I know that you grew up in Pasadena and so this would have been like what the seventies. Eighties? Yes. You're growing up. So for people that were around then, like, what was Pasadena like then? Like, what was, like, growing up back then? Pasadena was nice. It was nice quiet place. They did have some gang activity. We kinda stayed away from the gangs. As a kid, the the police department was kinda shady. You know, that's just like every other police department today, you know, when you color. So that's what we had to deal with. Mostly was the police even as a kid, mostly was the police. Even as a kid. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. Most definitely as a kid. What did that look like for y'all? Like, would they just house the y'all and you walk them down the street? Or what did the cops do Oh, yeah. There you'd be walking down the street there, pull you over, check your pockets, half of you, as boom is growing up Our parents will always tell us whatever you do stay away from the police. So we grew up knowing to stay away from the police. Do you remember meeting Glenn, like, the first time, like, how you met him? Oh, yeah. That's definitely. Well, how what was that? My god parents had brought me a dirt bike motorcycle. And over by JPL there was a Frisbee park and there was a dam over there with water in And over by JPL, there was a frisbee park, and there was a dam over there with water in it. And riding it was over there. It was all kids. I was riding my bike and riding was over there getting ready to fishing. And so I stopped and I started talking to him and we was digging for Earthworms. So we can go fishing. And we SB6 there all day, we were pulled in the water, tried to fish and found out later there was no fish in the water. Wait. How are y'all? Would this Look? How old I was about nine years how low was it? It was about nine years old. Oh, man. Yep. This kind of sounds country. Here we go. Where came from the country. I was from the rock rock, you saw some. Yeah. I mean, first of all, I know that his his pops was was nickname kingfish. Yes. And it sounds like fishing was just like a big part of which I like to do. Right? Which yeah. Most definitely fishing was a big thing for most definitely. Fishing was a big thing for us. That was our getaway. That was the only thing we had to do. Back then, they didn't have nintendos and all that type of stuff. He had to get outside and do stuff. As you got to the end of high school, like, what was the direction y'all had today? I was heading into the construction field, but for his Johnnie, I actually thought he's gonna be a pro baseball player. Well, he was like good. Yeah. He was good. I thought he was going to go pro that's where it's I thought he's gonna go pro. That that's where he's hard. What's that? What happened? He ended up going to jail for one thing. He started getting in trouble, started going off on a wrong path. And that kinda ended things for him. Did you know that he was going on the wrong path as it was happening? I I did. I did. I would I would be with him sometimes. We both was together going off on the wrong path, but he kinda took it further to the right, and I went to the left, you know. I'm not asking you to snitch, but he talked about drinking and smoking like at a very young age. Right? SB6, like, was it that sort of stuff that was contributing to that. Oh, yeah. was drinking and smoking. Yeah. Most definitely. I mean, we'll go in to liquor stores and stuff and steal beer and ran out and then type stuff, you know. I mean, was kids growing up? You know, it's nothing beautiful about it now. But when you look back, that's what we was but when you look back, that's what we were doing. Did you Recognize him as having an alcohol as having alcohol problem even as a kid? I didn't recognize him as having a alcohol problem as a kid because we was both doing it. And it didn't come it become a big problem into after the beating. You know? He I mean, he would still here near in particular alcohol, hard liquor, and stuff like that we both did. But after the incident, it triple. It was bad. Okay. If you've made it this far, I know you're a fan of slow burn, and your 1 slight plus membership can really help us continue make this show. It's only one dollar for your first month and you'll get access to all of these interviews and are behind the scenes stories of making this show in our slow burn bonus episodes. Once you sign up, you won't hear any ads on any slate podcast, and you'll get to read everything on slate dot com. Go find all your benefits now. It's slate dot comslobburn. burn. Tell them I sent you and thank Tell them I sent you and thank you. And if you can't swing your membership right now, please show your support by leaving us a rating and review. Every little bit of support counts. Okay. That's all for now. On next week's show, we'll be talking about the trial. Thanks for listening.