0:00

Welcome back to Dealing Together. First caller?

0:02

I bought three sweaters to get the fourth free. Oh,

0:04

you got fleeced. Next caller. I traded my

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old Samsung at AT&T for a new Samsung Galaxy S24

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Plus and shows my plan. That's

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best smartphone deals. Your choice of plan. Learn

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gigabyte alpha available for limited time. Terms and

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restrictions apply. See att.com/Samsung for details. Before

0:31

we get into this episode of Small Doses Podcast,

0:33

check out what you missed this week on the

0:35

Small Doses bonus podcast. I'm where I

0:37

told you I was. She's like, well, can

0:39

you come back? Can you come back the way you came?

0:41

And I'm like, why? She's like, because she wants to see

0:44

you. I said, who? She's like the vice president. I

0:49

said, what? She's like, yes,

0:51

come on here. I just want to see you. Can you get back over here?

0:54

Force. So that I'm

0:56

like stuttering. I'm just like, what am I reading?

0:58

Apparently, oh, yeah, just so you all know, we're

1:00

reading this for the first time together. Some of you may

1:02

have read that. I'm reading this with a perspective that purposely was like, let

1:05

me do this with you. The

1:08

sex workers that Mr. Combs forced Mr. Jones to bring back

1:10

to his home on or about February 2nd, 2023. Incident.

1:16

Mr. Jones believes Mr. Combs drug

1:18

to him. Gotcha.

1:22

And I said, wow, this

1:25

is so anti-Black in so

1:28

many ways. I mean, it's unbelievable. First of

1:30

all, you are comparing

1:32

Barbara Lee, Representative Barbara Lee, former

1:34

Black Panther Barbara Lee, candidate for

1:36

Senator Barbara Lee with

1:40

a grifter. Is

1:43

that it is very important

1:46

when we are doing this work to

1:50

hear each other, you

1:52

know, and to

1:55

strengthen our bonds, not weaken them and

1:57

not let people who don't give a

1:59

fuck about. either of us weaken them. Uh,

2:02

that. Yep, you can be there

2:04

when we record live or you can just

2:06

check it out for yourselves on Patreon. So

2:09

make sure to catch the Small Doses Bonus

2:11

episodes now available on my Patreon, Amanda Fields.

2:14

Also make sure you go to Amanda Fields

2:16

by trying to sign up for the newsletter.

2:18

We got so much information in there as

2:20

well as let y'all know when I got

2:22

new things going on and when I'm coming

2:24

to your city. We are adding tour dates

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to Philly, to Baltimore, Boston, and you do

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not want to miss it. So make sure

2:30

you go to Amanda fields.com and sign up

2:32

for the newsletter. All right. We're

2:34

about to get into this next episode. This is one

2:36

of my favorite people. Y'all. I'm

2:38

so happy we got to do this. Check

2:40

out Small Doses with me going on. AKA

2:43

Uncle Clifford right here. Look

2:59

at us. Doing

3:09

what we do. It's

3:13

so long. When's

3:17

the last time I saw you? What was that,

3:19

March? No, was that last year? No,

3:22

it was, um, Juneteenth. That was last

3:24

year. Juneteenth was last year. June. Oh,

3:26

that wasn't this June. That wasn't this

3:28

June. That was not this June. It's

3:30

not just Juneteenth, no. What

3:32

about when we- Is Smart Funny Black? Yeah,

3:35

but when was Smart Funny and Black? When Smart Funny and Black

3:37

is always going on? No, not right now.

3:39

Oh, well, when you going back on tour? We'll be going in May.

3:41

I don't know. I have something else

3:43

I have to do first. It's so much fun.

3:45

Like, that was like, yeah, that was- Actually,

3:48

that's a perfect

3:50

segue because we were talking about Black popular

3:52

culture. And Smart Funny

3:54

and Black is couched in Black

3:57

popular culture being just as

3:59

important. Important

4:01

as black history because for

4:03

us black popular culture is history,

4:06

yeah, like it's not so You

4:09

know when when nico arrived

4:12

in his flyness we hadn't derived

4:14

when he arrived we hadn't derived

4:18

What we would we hadn't decided

4:20

on what we would surmise to speak on

4:22

and so While chit

4:25

chatting we came to the topic

4:27

of black popular culture because your

4:29

role on P-valley

4:31

as uncle cliford Has

4:34

had such an impact beyond simply

4:36

just oh wow like i'm washing

4:40

yes, and that is

4:43

indicative of the power of black popular culture the

4:45

same way that like Claire

4:48

huckstable Is

4:50

a real mother Like

4:53

that's like dark skin on this

4:56

is She's

4:59

a real mother she's a real mother So

5:02

is the light skin on this I know but

5:05

no one calls her life skin on this. This is

5:07

true She's not dark skin on

5:09

this they call her daphne Is

5:11

that her name? Yes. Hey daphne. Hey daphne

5:14

I would love to do an episode with her

5:16

because I know that that you got to be a

5:18

special kind of Solid to step into that right

5:20

and to still have to hear about it All

5:23

these years later. Oh she's here. She's like

5:25

I just auditioned. I was a working

5:28

actor Okay, but that's the culture that

5:30

you're talking about. Yes, you know what

5:32

i'm saying? It lasts forever It's

5:34

interesting because like sometimes, you know, you're

5:36

doing something You're

5:39

just doing your art you're just

5:41

doing what's placed on your spirit, you

5:43

know to do and then to realize

5:45

hey This is

5:48

going to be around forever Do

5:50

you understand what i'm saying? Yes, it's around forever.

5:52

There's always going to be some especially like streaming

5:54

and everything is now like It's going to be

5:56

right, right, right, right, right, you know, there's going

5:58

to be some chat There's children out

6:01

there. When was it that they were

6:03

just learning about, um, uh, what

6:05

was it? I just heard it the other day. Teach

6:08

the babies. It wasn't the

6:10

Cosby show. Martin. They

6:13

still get that because of the reruns, but there are

6:15

certain shows that like they never, I

6:17

can't, it's, I'm a family matters. Cause

6:19

I'll run them down. Family

6:23

matters. My brother and me, a Cosby

6:25

show, a different world. My

6:27

wife and kids throw out any of them.

6:29

If anybody has any other suggestions, um, good

6:31

times. It wasn't family matters,

6:33

but I think about good times often because

6:36

that was, I didn't

6:38

live in the projects, but I had cousins

6:40

who did. And then

6:42

later in Detroit, which part of Detroit you live? You

6:44

said it was that West side. West side. That's what

6:47

I thought. Why? Cause

6:49

he said it was a different level of. Look, my grandma

6:51

was on the East side. So, and look, and I worked at

6:53

the car wash on the East side, seven mile in Van Dijk.

6:57

That's where I got a lot of my rough, rough.

6:59

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's where I learned how to

7:01

shank and you know, and do all the things.

7:09

Hey, I'm just saying like, you can't be coming from

7:11

the D and be like, you know, that

7:14

and New York, so like it made life.

7:16

That's more, I think easy. I also knew

7:18

how to navigate through it

7:20

all being black, being a full

7:23

figured man, being gay to be in

7:25

all of the things. Oh,

7:27

a full figured man. I never considered that

7:29

to be a thing. That's

7:32

a thing. People

7:35

like when they meet you, when they meet me in

7:37

my mind, it's just like, you just, you know, you would

7:39

think negative, like you're a big negative, but I've never considered

7:41

it as like a full, do you consider yourself to have

7:43

hips? Oh, I do. Have you? I'm

7:50

like, I haven't seen a show. Oh,

7:54

baby. These hips, these hips, these lips and

7:56

all the things. But

8:01

it's about embracing, and it took a minute to be able

8:03

to get to a place, to be able to embrace all

8:06

of that. Did this character help with that at

8:08

all? It forced it, yeah. But

8:10

I was more intentional

8:13

prior to actually playing the character, I think just

8:15

because of having to go through those

8:17

things, and when you deal with identity, being

8:21

from African descent also, here,

8:23

black Americans, growing up, I

8:27

literally was fourth grade, that African

8:29

booty scratcher. Where's your family

8:31

from? My father's from Ghana. Okay. Yeah,

8:34

my father's from Ghana. That's my mom. Mm-hmm.

8:36

And so, born in Accra, grew up

8:38

in the Kofitawa. Wait, you were

8:40

born in Accra? My dad. I was

8:42

like- No, no, no, my dad. No,

8:44

you say, no, you all the time, where have

8:46

I been? Exactly. No, I'm still trying to learn

8:48

the language, you know. But I

8:50

think that when you have a lot of that

8:53

oppression against you, you have to fight

8:55

and educate through that. Remembering,

8:58

oh, what did you do this summer?

9:01

What's your favorite food? You know those kind of questions and things

9:03

like that. And when I would say peanut butter soup, or I

9:05

went to see my grandmama in

9:07

Ghana, and they were like, what? You

9:11

did just cruel, ignorant children. We

9:13

did not know. Why are the kids

9:15

so cruel? Because they ain't never been on

9:17

no plane. Because we talking

9:19

about socioeconomic issues. You know what I'm

9:21

saying? When are we getting passports? When

9:24

are we actually traveling? That's not somewhere in a

9:26

car. You know what

9:28

I mean? Yeah. Damn. You know,

9:30

it affects a lot of different things. Having

9:33

to go through all of that, and then, oh,

9:36

you want to be this actor? You want to be this

9:38

dancer? What are you gonna- Yeah, I feel

9:40

like Nico, they had to see it coming. I

9:42

mean, were you the child? I don't feel

9:44

like you were some like meek and mild

9:47

child. I

9:49

mean, was it a situation where you

9:51

got the call? No, you can't, you

9:53

were the greatest. I've

9:55

always been in my truth, and

9:58

I have been able to define it. my truth through

10:00

those adversities, you know what I'm saying?

10:03

I feel like you've always been a

10:05

performer. Really? Yeah. Yeah,

10:09

mass president. Okay. Come

10:13

on. We are the music makers.

10:16

We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers

10:19

of dreams. Traveling

10:22

around lone scene breakers and sitting

10:24

by desolate streams. World losers

10:26

and world forsakers for whom

10:28

the pale moon is. But

10:30

we are the movers and shakers of the world

10:32

forever it seems. You

10:34

better. I got

10:37

you a grip top sock but that's it. That's

10:39

all I know. We went

10:41

to purchase college. Yes, we did go

10:43

to the conservatory at purchase. A theater arts and film. You

10:46

made it all the way through. I

10:49

was removed. You don't

10:51

know this story. You don't know this story. No. Yes.

10:56

When did you leave? At the end of

10:59

my freshman year, an individual named Christian, last

11:01

name beginning with P, he lied

11:03

to the teacher to you, Laley Noble, who was a

11:05

full racist. And he just

11:07

like told her that I was listening to my headphones

11:09

in class and he was doing this to try to

11:11

sacrifice somebody so that he wouldn't get cut. And

11:14

her being the bat shit crazy racist that she

11:16

was, I was the only black woman in my

11:19

class. So it was like an easy

11:21

target. Oh my gosh.

11:23

Yeah, because the year before me was like shahada.

11:25

Oh, you were with, yeah, because it was black and he

11:27

black. No,

11:30

they had one life skin girl and it was me. They had one

11:32

black girl and she was... But do you think how that sets

11:35

you up for your level of advocacy

11:38

and being able to advocate for yourself? I think being

11:40

raised on Bob Marley set me up. Come on. No,

11:44

I'm just saying, I feel like I was hearing rebel music

11:48

from such an early age that I just

11:50

was that kind of person. But

11:55

no, and then I left the conservatory and I appealed

11:57

because they were like you need to take a year

11:59

off. I said, no, I don't want to take a year

12:01

off, like either let me back in.

12:03

They were like, well, no, they tried to kick me out.

12:05

Then I appealed. They said, we can't take the word of 25 students

12:08

over professor, because I got everybody to write letters

12:10

in my defense. And then they were like, Dan

12:12

Hanassian, I remember said, we can't take the word of

12:15

25 students over a tenured professor. And so

12:17

then I took a year off, came back, but I

12:19

didn't take a year off of class. I just took

12:21

a year off of the conservatory. So you were still

12:23

at the school. I was still at purchase. That's what

12:25

I remember. And then I created my own major, so

12:27

that I just finished on time. And I still

12:30

had to go back to Dean Irby and was like,

12:32

I need you to sign off so that I can

12:34

create this major of African-American studies with a concentration in

12:36

visual and performing arts, so I don't lose my credit. And

12:39

he really tried to act like he wasn't gonna sign this

12:41

shit. And I literally said to him,

12:44

you tried to ruin my life. Sign

12:46

the paper. So he

12:49

signed it. And then five years later, I was DJing at

12:51

SOBs and he was dating Alicia Keys' mom. And he said,

12:53

can I get a shout out? Okay.

12:57

Hi Dean. This

12:59

is your shout out from small doses

13:03

with the host, creator, producer,

13:06

activist, woman of God,

13:10

gorgeous beauty, Amanda

13:12

Seals. Greetings. So

13:18

that was the time. That was my purchase. I

13:21

forgot that when I was there, you had

13:23

been out of the program and stuff like

13:25

that. But you know what? Throughout all of

13:27

that madness, you still kept your fight. Like

13:30

you still, I

13:33

didn't know that deep, deep,

13:35

deep any like hurt or conflict.

13:37

I still saw you like pushing

13:39

to make shit happen. Yeah, we

13:42

come from a different time. Like

13:44

I don't think I was suppressing feelings. I think it

13:46

was just like, you gotta say the

13:48

course. Like these people can't disrupt. They're not

13:51

gonna take you. Yeah. Yeah, you don't know

13:53

me like that. No. I'm curious

13:55

how, how

13:57

we, and if I'm honest, like that. I

14:00

feel like how so much beautiful black popular

14:02

culture gets created. It's pressure. It's like the

14:04

pressure of diamonds, you know How

14:08

did you find your way? To

14:11

P Valley, I'm sure you've told the story a

14:13

million times and I don't just mean like in

14:15

terms of the audition process But like once you

14:17

booked it, how did you was

14:20

it an easy like, okay uncle Clifford's already in

14:22

me Or was it like I gotta arrive at

14:24

him Um arrive

14:27

at her oh Because uncle

14:29

credit them her she

14:32

uses she her pronouns Uncle

14:35

Clifford is non-binary. I think because

14:37

of the process of having but

14:40

isn't the use of the word uncle Okay

14:44

using the moniker of uncle and

14:47

Clifford yet using she

14:49

her pronouns. There's that dichotomy

14:51

Yeah, I think there's

14:53

these flashbacks that happen in P Valley,

14:56

you know that everyone kind

14:58

of like didn't see coming But it was like, oh wait, we're

15:00

here wait, this is the history way But

15:03

when you really look at the show to

15:05

me history is all around us You know

15:07

every time that I go when I go

15:09

home when I see my aunt's or I

15:11

go to you know When my grandmother was

15:14

alive going to her house, there's old things

15:16

There are things that just have lasted throughout

15:18

time whether that was the television whether it

15:20

was the landline phone That's

15:23

still there the VHS, you know what I'm saying?

15:25

That's still there and it's like why do you

15:27

still have those stacked over on the side and

15:29

those ebony maggot those jet magazines? Okay,

15:36

I think that you know, that's a

15:38

part of like the thread of holding

15:40

on and giving us identity

15:42

so When

15:44

we would go back in time and you see the younger

15:47

version of the character running

15:49

across the club and She

15:52

says uncle ever come on over here like just

15:54

as a kid, right? And I think about for

15:56

me I have always when I

15:58

was a child had that old spirit

16:02

where people said, did you been here before?

16:04

Or like I used to hang around older

16:06

people because I was my mom's only child.

16:08

So, you know, so it was always like,

16:10

I'm sitting down doing homework while you do

16:14

nails and stuff like that after work. And

16:16

I'm doing my homework during my algebra and

16:18

reading and things like that. So the

16:21

uncle component of uncle Clifford is

16:23

basically saying you will take all

16:25

of who I am. I

16:28

won't have to change for anyone.

16:30

And this is how I choose to identify in

16:32

the world. Just like when some people say, I

16:34

don't like when you call me bitch, like I

16:36

had said, she's a bad bitch. I said that

16:39

about you earlier. You may be

16:41

a person that's like, that's offensive to me. It's

16:44

very subjective. Depends on who says that. And how you

16:46

say it. And how you say it. Yeah. But

16:49

you have that right to identify and express,

16:51

I don't want to be identified as that.

16:54

Don't use that word for me and we

16:56

can keep it moving. Yeah. I'm

17:02

not even frightened. Sometimes I legit

17:04

forget to eat. And when

17:06

that happens, I'm not in the mood to try

17:08

and like figure out what I'm going to cook.

17:10

No. And I also know that people will simply

17:13

cook better than me and I can get right

17:15

to them on DoorDash.

17:17

Yes, that's right.

17:19

Listen, DoorDash has saved

17:21

your girl so many

17:24

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17:26

bad at it, you can get you

17:28

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17:30

you a discount on the DoorDash and

17:32

that you're doing. So don't be like

17:34

me. Don't let yourself go the whole

17:36

day and then realize, oh my gosh,

17:38

that's why I'm cranky because I haven't

17:40

eaten anything. No. Tap into DoorDash and

17:42

get you some nutrients in your system.

17:44

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18:00

Murray and Select markets. How

18:04

did you get and co clifford I want you know

18:06

this is not have an easier and v seem very

18:08

tight. Good night. Of

18:12

let's say some the So enterprise. Restaurant

18:15

is it appropriate for I

18:18

will Power as an hour

18:20

and it is interesting to

18:22

see Amanda I am. I

18:24

don't know what you're talking.

18:27

Okay where I keep it

18:29

say right Seabirds I keep

18:31

a ride is who gets

18:34

Uncle Clifford? That part. Of

18:36

he has been any get the ball like oh you pointed

18:38

to an insecure like it's so opposite of you like how

18:40

did you like. Doing you know and

18:42

I'm like well and as such as the

18:44

like it i had people that I like

18:46

ten of mimic her ah five and then

18:49

over time like she does became more. More.

18:51

Natural as I can Seventy like

18:53

instantaneously, you know, Whereas like, I

18:56

think, Uncle Clifford. Is.

18:58

A lot more layered you know

19:00

and this in the writing like

19:02

you that you experience more trauma,

19:04

more of just a complex experience.

19:06

So I think. I'm curious.

19:08

like I mean how. Was.

19:11

It difficult at all. Two more.

19:14

Years. And then to stay in a. Yes,

19:17

because usually like on said. I

19:19

don't. Do not that are you my

19:22

bed. Are that method? I'm just like.

19:24

You know when you get Nico? Like

19:27

they are times when I have the correct people

19:29

ah and or like when I say correct like

19:31

set them straight like. I'd be like. Doesn't.

19:34

Equal take. This

19:36

is ego. a right arrow don't do that,

19:38

but without the database sent over backwards like

19:41

as Uncle Clifford mixers. I use my full

19:43

rein in other ways, but I let people

19:45

know. Be. Some that know character right

19:47

now. Yeah, the mother fucker man. A Sockets

19:49

you don't get it twisted. Don't do that

19:51

shit again. And listening for. There

19:54

was an individual I insecure who will call us.

19:56

By our character names. In real, I'm

19:58

a. Real? I didn't. What?

20:00

Literally Having to ignore? Them

20:05

set. Of for them to

20:07

such. As. Like.

20:10

Tiffany Sydney Sydney in

20:12

A Thing. In. A Theater.

20:15

No. No. Other

20:18

answer is as big as a pitcher. but

20:20

would you say I'm not going crazy? I

20:23

know the fuck out and I have with

20:25

yeah every tear to that you play as

20:28

an artist I think that zoom lens yourself

20:30

to the craft. You know there's definitely things

20:32

that I have net. Of

20:34

myself to reading the character

20:36

but. I'm not known by

20:38

Mary and life I am gay. Rights

20:41

and I also felt that I had

20:43

the right as a gay man to

20:45

be able to play and portray a

20:47

member of my community that was a

20:50

part of the Lgbtq plus because if

20:52

I did not buy that. Line

20:54

of Logic I would never be able to plates in

20:56

Lear. And then I say oh. Actually I

20:58

would have my father was a print so

21:00

I have a royal my Welcome to Winter

21:02

by Discontent Do you understand what I'm saying

21:04

and I think that we have to be

21:06

able to know yourself and a lot of

21:08

ways and as an artist explore. So I

21:10

went. Something. Like

21:13

real talk like I would go shopping.

21:15

I would go over to that Tj

21:17

Maxx. the marshals was over was over

21:19

by by the airport. Ah

21:22

yes yes I would go over there

21:24

and I were I went to specifically

21:26

a lot of black places us and

21:28

I would stop. At. The department's

21:30

was like a discount apartments or by

21:32

the marshals. The Ross, Tj Maxx and

21:34

I would go into the women's department

21:36

and I would go in our try

21:38

on shoes and I would trust and

21:40

I was starting at that point I

21:42

was really just looking for something that

21:44

our were for the audition I would

21:46

have was cause. I was

21:49

getting ready for the audition before the

21:51

audition came. Out. With

21:53

manifesting really? absolutely. Cut.

21:55

Out with them. Fuck in L A. I come from New York,

21:58

I didn't I have. representation. In

22:00

and all those things are when I got

22:02

here. And Twenty Thirteen in a way. I.

22:05

Was like okay. Guy.

22:07

We want to do a reset. As I said, I

22:09

want it more and my life. Or tank. Yes. And

22:12

I want more. My life. And so when I got

22:14

out here. About Like All right. You

22:16

hear you can be did it is is is is and I

22:18

was like a. Yard

22:21

Line july it so I just hit the

22:23

ground running and because I had done the

22:26

readings of the played the workshop the full

22:28

production hadn't been done at the time and

22:30

so I was back in New York. Do

22:32

not as doesn't affect you know what I

22:34

thought this nugget so let me work on

22:36

that. So when I went shopping I would

22:38

see how people looked at me. I

22:41

would be just internally the process of

22:43

like oh how do you find some

22:46

the next going to fit your body

22:48

yes that's was a full figure because

22:50

of high Really sucked into an account

22:52

of. How does my body

22:55

occupy space? I you're hearing this.

22:57

It's the craft of. See

23:00

it is. but alas that real

23:02

life said of like. I

23:04

don't get a lot of in. Nico doesn't

23:06

get a lot of scrutiny. As.

23:09

Maybe someone that may be center

23:11

or more feminine and presents a

23:13

sense because I'm big, because I'm

23:15

sally, because I'm a Texas, I

23:17

guess. But like back in a

23:19

day like when I was twenty.

23:22

Nine, I was too soft in what like

23:24

physically or just like energetically and what the

23:26

negroes would say in the community when you're

23:28

twenty, do this. With

23:31

Aca use real deal with your real

23:33

and the you know we are all

23:35

fighting to so many different perceptions of

23:37

what we see, what we're supposed. To. the

23:39

interesting place in that regard to is. It

23:41

says i'm some everybody. Yes,

23:44

Like. I mean, there was a full dance. And.

23:47

Theater arts like the whole conservatory know you

23:49

know the dogs were than that. With the

23:51

other hand, there. Was also commuters like

23:53

liberal. I thought it was also

23:55

fascinating because and public until for

23:57

this but. That. Conservative. itself

24:00

was like very high level art.

24:03

But the actual liberal arts school

24:06

was more... Regular. Regular. Attainable.

24:10

It was a safe school. Yeah.

24:12

And there's nothing wrong with that. Like for me,

24:15

that was the beautiful part about purchase. So

24:18

there was a balance. Yes. Because I wasn't hanging around people

24:20

that was so lofty and all this stuff. It's like me

24:22

living close to Woodland Hills. That's it. Do you understand what

24:24

I'm saying? Let me go tap in, give me a piece

24:26

of chicken. Tap out. Yo, can you

24:28

swipe me, Amanda? Right. Yo, let me

24:30

have some of your meal plans. Yes!

24:32

I like a grilled chicken with

24:34

cheese and a honey. That's

24:36

what it was. I can taste it. I can

24:38

literally taste. Why? Because

24:41

I ate it every day. A grilled

24:43

cheese? A grilled chicken with cheese. And yes,

24:45

sometimes I would get a grilled... Ooh, I actually want

24:47

a grilled cheese. That's a whole other

24:49

episode. We could have literally done side effects of

24:52

purchase. We could have. You know I

24:54

ended up doing the commencement speech. When? For

24:56

graduation. This year? No, for my

24:58

graduation. I was a commencement speaker. See, that's

25:00

what I'm talking about. That's what

25:03

I'm talking about. And I called

25:05

it all out. It's on YouTube. See,

25:08

this is why I love that people... This

25:11

is who you've always been. Oh, well, this is

25:13

who you've always been. Correct. And when

25:15

you know that, I think that when you do have a calling

25:17

on your life and when

25:19

you actually answer, there is a different

25:21

response. How

25:24

did I prepare? Again, I shop,

25:26

but I also lived life. So

25:28

I taught. You know, I was a teacher in New

25:32

York, and I taught high school, and it

25:34

was something that fed

25:37

me in a whole other kind of way. Of

25:39

course. You know, to be able to...

25:41

What did you teach? Willin High School, Greenberg Central... For

25:44

the subject? Theater. Oh!

25:47

There was no dance until when they were trying to make me

25:49

teach astrology. I was like... Astrology

25:52

or astronomy? Astrology?

25:56

Yeah. As an elective, they wanted to

25:58

provide electives for the little children, and I was like... Y'all,

26:00

that don't make sense. One, I'm not accredited in this.

26:02

And I was like, what am I gonna do? Do

26:04

dance patterns, mocking stars? Like

26:07

what? And I was like, oh, well, there's

26:09

something there, but. Astrology as

26:11

a kid's class? High school.

26:14

You're a Gemini, you're a Libra. It

26:17

was all gonna be too much, but I did

26:19

not do that. It was theater and dance. And

26:21

I supported the English classes with art and literature.

26:24

Did black popular culture play into any of that? Absolutely,

26:26

because I was, my kids, when they left,

26:28

they would get to college freshman year. We

26:31

read this, we know Toni Morrison, we did

26:33

this. They had a knowledge of who they

26:35

were. And I'm gonna say black

26:37

and my Latin students, because the school was mixed,

26:39

but I always thought it was crazy. I was

26:42

like, there's all these Latin children. Where,

26:44

ain't no Latin productions? What

26:48

are we doing? All of y'all are

26:50

taking Spanish classes that as an elective, but you

26:52

can't speak it outside of Ola Como Esta. So

26:55

I was like, okay. But they Esta el Daniel.

26:57

Boom, you better than me. But

27:00

I will be like, oh, so we gonna do the House of

27:02

Ramona Iglesia. We are gonna do

27:04

Lydia. We're gonna expose people to Latin

27:07

writers as well. So it was

27:09

just a matter, for me, that's how I grew up.

27:12

I grew up having access and

27:14

knowing who I was,

27:16

reading. What are some

27:19

of the black popular culture things that you feel

27:21

like shaped you? Like I

27:23

can definitely tell you that the fact that I

27:25

can speak to Jasmine Guy still blows my mind

27:27

because Whitley Gilbert was very much a part

27:29

of my like adolescence. Same

27:31

with Tisha Campbell. Like I'll never get over

27:34

that. I will never get over

27:36

that. Tisha Campbell knows me and loves me. I

27:38

will never recover from that because that, there

27:41

weren't standup comedians. Like there weren't a lot

27:43

of women, black women standup comedians that got

27:46

a lot of like visibility, but for

27:48

the comedians, listen,

27:50

this is Tisha and Jachina and

27:53

Cree Summer and Jasmine. I

27:55

love them. Like that's

27:57

the same meme. So I would say like who

27:59

the pop. culture that like informing

28:02

the most was fame. Gene

28:05

Anthony Ray. I'm kind of wondering where

28:07

I've been. Come

28:11

on. What do

28:15

I see? Yeah. I

28:19

want it to be Gene Anthony Ray so

28:21

bad. Heart Latch. Do, do, do, do,

28:23

do. I was giving you know, Miss Graham.

28:26

I'm ready, you know what I'm saying? Yes. Wait,

28:29

what's the closing song? Oh, wait. Speaking

28:31

of astrology. It's something about this. Come

28:34

on, what's the closing number of fame? I

28:37

don't know. All I know is electric.

28:40

You talk about. I sing

28:42

the body electric. The body

28:44

electric. I celebrate

28:46

the me yet to come. Ha,

28:49

ha, ha, ha, ha. I

28:51

talk to my own reunion.

28:55

When I become one with

28:58

the. What I love

29:00

is that you are into the whole movie. You

29:03

are into the whole movie. I'm

29:05

a between us. I

29:07

celebrate my. Yeah. Yes.

29:11

I'm going to fill your

29:13

thoughts. Yes. You better go ahead and

29:15

remember these lyrics. You better remember these lyrics. You

29:18

have to like that was my thing. More

29:20

so the TV show. OK. More so the

29:22

TV show. Then the movie. That.

29:26

I just love that it was. Oh,

29:29

they get to feel. Oh, they get

29:31

to do stuff like. Oh, OK.

29:33

So like I was already ready before

29:35

high school of. Rehearsal

29:38

to eight o'clock. You know what

29:40

I'm saying? That was the stuff that kept

29:42

me out of trouble. It kept me off

29:44

the streets. So when I. So literally seeing

29:46

it represented. Change me. I

29:48

have to ask them why. If

29:51

they have had that same. Like

29:54

if things have had that same effect on the clear community.

29:56

Not to be confused with the clear community.

29:59

The clear community. because I feel like

30:01

this is so common for us. It's like,

30:03

oh, we signed. So I can be it.

30:05

Yeah. Because sometimes you don't get to see it in

30:07

your family. Sometimes you don't get

30:09

to see it in your household, your neighborhood.

30:11

Yeah. So if I can see it on

30:13

TV, something that

30:16

changed me. There

30:18

was that first year, 2020, 2020. I

30:23

know. I know. That

30:26

part. But there was this nugget. We really lived

30:28

through that. We lived it. What?

30:31

That's why we scarred now. Well, this is why I take

30:33

my time now and get space. But

30:36

there was this young man. He

30:38

had pictures on his Instagram story

30:40

and he attacked me. And

30:42

there were these pictures of all of these,

30:44

I call them icons and pillars in our

30:46

community. He was looking at

30:48

Sidney Poitier. He was looking at Oprah.

30:50

He was looking at Ruby Dee. And

30:54

then he had a picture of Uncle Clifford up

30:57

there. And I bawled

31:01

because I was like, oh. Illustrious

31:04

League of Master Blacksburg. This matters.

31:06

Yeah. Like it was something that just

31:08

told me, it was like, yeah. I feel like

31:11

I remember that. It was more than just like me

31:13

and like. But it's a lineage, right?

31:16

And because I knew those

31:18

that came before. Yeah. I

31:20

knew that. Those were not

31:22

just black faces. Those were people that I

31:24

looked up to that like,

31:26

whew. You

31:29

remember Joan Potter at purchase? I

31:31

know who she is. So she

31:33

told me sophomore year, we were

31:35

doing Shakespearean scenes. Like old. I

31:38

loved Joan. I didn't experience her. Got you.

31:40

She was just like a little white lady

31:42

to me. She was actually. And she sold

31:44

me her Mercury Cougar for $525. I

31:48

love it. So I bought that car from her and it was

31:50

good. Cause off you go from

31:52

Connecticut to purchase. Right, right, right. But I

31:54

got up to do my scene one day

31:56

and we were, it was from Othello

31:59

and she. Which scene? Put up your sword so

32:01

that you will rush them. I don't even remember.

32:03

I know it's me and Iago. I

32:06

know what scene it is. What? I'll bet

32:08

you I know what scene it is. It's sad because if they always do the same

32:10

scenes and I'll be like, it's the whole play, y'all. I

32:12

think it's probably the scene where Iago

32:15

says, I

32:17

left that left. The handkerchief.

32:19

Right. Because he's like pointing

32:21

out to Aselo that Cassius is talking to.

32:24

He plants the seed. I think that actually was the scene.

32:26

I think that was the scene. Because that's the scene. He

32:29

plants the seed in Aselo's mind that Shorty is

32:31

wiling. And

32:33

here you go. What you going to do with it?

32:36

With just one line. I

32:38

like not to laugh. And how do you know you're

32:41

such a baddie? I

32:44

really paid attention in school. Clearly.

32:47

Clearly. But that she, I remember. So

32:49

did you play Cassius or Aselo? I

32:51

play with playing Aselo. And

32:53

I remember I had these fry

32:55

boots. You know, fry boots was a

32:58

thing back in New York. Yes. So

33:00

I had my fry boots on. And

33:02

I think acting may have been after lunch or something

33:04

like that. So I think I had

33:06

one of them off because my foot was hurting.

33:09

And so it was the first round. And I had just

33:12

walked up. I'm sitting

33:14

up on the stage or in the studio

33:16

and I'm breathing, doing my

33:18

thing. And afterwards

33:20

she was just like, my dear, you'll

33:24

never be able to play Aselo. You

33:27

have to do this. And you did it. And

33:29

she broke it down. And

33:31

I said, what'd you say? And

33:33

she was like, you have to do this

33:35

in your body and you have to pull up and your

33:37

posturing. And literally

33:40

midterms when we had evaluations

33:42

or whatever. That

33:44

was where I was in her office. And

33:46

she was like, what's wrong? And I was just like,

33:48

nothing. I was very distant. And she said, what's wrong

33:50

with you? I said, listen, you told

33:53

me I was going to be able to play with though. And I

33:55

did. And now you're giving me all this

33:57

good feedback. She was like, I've never said that to

33:59

you. I said, yes, you. You said right here boom

34:01

boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom

34:03

and she said, Nico, you

34:06

walked up there with one shoe on. I

34:10

said you'd never be able to play a fellow.

34:12

He's a king. You're not looking like a king.

34:14

You're not carrying yourself like you should.

34:17

You have everything that you need to

34:19

be successful. You are like a young

34:22

Sydney Portier. And

34:24

I'm trying to get you there. And

34:26

your young self is not being, I

34:29

wasn't being focused and she was saying how

34:31

I show up. And

34:33

so when she said that, we'll allow it. Right.

34:36

I said, why you ain't say that from the beginning?

34:40

Why does that have to decrypt, decode?

34:43

Yo, she did. Like, you know, you had me

34:45

here feeling this way for a whole time. Ding.

34:47

But I'm glad that we got it out. But

34:50

like for me, I've always

34:52

had to like prove that

34:54

I was worthy or that I had

34:56

it. And I'm ready for this chance.

35:00

And that was not something

35:02

that told me that I was less

35:04

than. Y'all just don't see it.

35:06

Right. Y'all just don't see it. So I

35:09

guess being the only child, having

35:11

this vivid imagination and staying in

35:13

my own world, it worked to

35:16

my benefit. So I would

35:18

just go, I would shop,

35:20

I would take all of these things

35:22

that I gathered and kind of put

35:24

them together when people looked at me

35:26

crazy. Why are you trying no shoes

35:29

on? You know, what are you doing

35:31

in this department? And normally you could lie and

35:33

be like, oh, I'm looking for something for my mom. But

35:36

when you see me hold this up to

35:38

myself or look in the mirror.

35:41

We got the same build. Right. Exactly. Like,

35:43

what is it doing? And I

35:45

took in how people saw me. That's

35:48

how I started to really get

35:50

my tentacles around how people looked

35:52

at non-binary people. I

35:55

would go out, try things on, prepare

35:58

for the role. I would take myself on dates. Oh,

36:00

like try life experiences on. By

36:02

myself, you know, and just see what

36:04

it was doing. I knew what I

36:06

did not want to do. And

36:09

that was be a joke. A

36:11

trope. Yeah. I wanted to dismantle that

36:13

and I wanted to be able to

36:15

give us something else to digest. Not

36:19

just a comedy of, oh, he's wearing a wig. I'm

36:25

not even frightened. Sometimes I legit

36:27

forget to eat. And when

36:29

that happens, I'm not in the mood to try

36:31

and like figure out what I'm going to cook.

36:34

No. And I also know there are people who

36:36

simply cook better than me and I can get

36:38

right to them on

36:40

DoorDash. Yes, that's right.

36:42

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36:44

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36:46

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36:48

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36:55

don't be like me. Don't let yourself go

36:57

the whole day and they realize, oh

36:59

my gosh, that's why I'm cranky because

37:01

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37:04

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37:06

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alcohol. Drink responsibly. Alcohol available

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only in select markets. So

37:27

you've mentioned now like, okay, fame

37:29

showed you like I

37:32

can be there. I can be in a space where like

37:35

I'm doing art all day, right? You mentioned, I

37:37

can't remember if we were recording it, but you

37:39

mentioned how like good times took you

37:41

to the hood, right? In ways

37:43

that reminded you of like, you know, your family

37:46

that lived in that space, but it also

37:48

gave you frame of reference and context for like

37:50

an experience that you didn't have that was still

37:52

like very innately black. What do you feel

37:54

like Pea Valley does for folks in that regard

37:56

as a part of the black

37:59

pop culture? Cannon I think it does

38:01

a lot of things because I think

38:03

that when people watch the show

38:07

The little isms that they pick up

38:09

on whether it's the Tupperware Whether

38:11

it's the the little chillin's a little piece of

38:13

foil it

38:16

gives Permission to

38:18

be and it also says that you

38:20

are okay. There's nothing wrong with you.

38:22

You don't have to change I Think

38:25

that culturally seeing the South Yeah

38:29

Represented is something that is very different and I

38:31

think a lot of times we try to shy

38:33

away from that in this country and

38:39

I feel like when people are

38:41

watching P Valley they get permission

38:44

To watch what they deem

38:47

like naughty and not

38:49

just the sexual things

38:51

You know because there's so many people that watch the show and

38:53

they say is that what it's like in the strip

38:56

club And I think but

38:58

you judging this girl for dancing and you talk

39:00

about then you ain't never been inside of a

39:03

strip club Well,

39:06

honey, I mean that's a deeper I mean,

39:09

yeah but they're just to be able to see

39:11

the athleticism to be able to see like The

39:14

family component. Yeah, you know, like

39:17

these are the grounds they're in characters. Mm-hmm

39:20

Yeah, and it's real experiences real experiences

39:22

that I think most people who haven't

39:24

been stripping Right been through

39:27

well, you know That's to me the beauty

39:29

of black popular culture, right? What it's done

39:31

is it allows us to have representation to

39:33

tell stories about us that we otherwise would

39:35

not get to tell and that Otherwise people

39:37

wouldn't even get a damn about. Mm-hmm, right?

39:40

So it validates existence

39:43

of Uncle Clifford Mm-hmm, and

39:45

Uncle Clifford is a character representing Real

39:48

people in the world have a

39:50

real people in the world responded to you in

39:52

this role Like

39:54

how do you feel like it's

39:56

shifted? It's overwhelming to be

39:58

honest with you It's just so interesting.

40:01

Unforwhelming in like a... Good way. Ooh.

40:04

In a good, positive way. Talk to me. You

40:06

know, you can do your appearances at different, you

40:08

know, clubs and things. Oh, okay,

40:10

yeah. And all those kind of things. And I've

40:12

been there and I've done that, you know, and

40:15

primarily because I wanted to be with the people. I

40:18

wanted to make sure, like, I don't want to be

40:20

just creating this in no Hollywood. Let me just be...

40:22

Yeah, man. Let me be with my people, people.

40:24

When you keep here and then you

40:26

go out in the world, you get a

40:28

greater sense of what

40:30

the actual impact of your doing is.

40:33

And it changes it. It changes it. And

40:36

that question of, what are you doing here? I've

40:39

had that when I was riding the bus. You're like, what do

40:41

you mean by doing here? I'm getting to my destination.

40:43

Yeah. Yeah, but you're like...

40:45

And I'm like, no, it's

40:48

me. But you feel so comfortable. I

40:50

am. Can you pass me to

40:52

play to that chicken? You

40:55

know what I'm saying? I feel like it

40:57

just put me in a place. I experienced

40:59

so many different types of people that

41:02

come up to me talking about the

41:04

show and specifically Uncle Clifford,

41:06

people who you don't think should. I

41:09

was walking in New York. Do you know Jocelyn B.O.? No. Play

41:12

right? No, I don't. You should check

41:14

her out. She got some great stuff going on.

41:16

Yaya Braiding Shop or something like

41:18

that on Broadway right now. Jocelyn

41:21

B.O. Okay. She

41:24

says to me, I was leaving her and her husband.

41:26

They had just got married. We were leaving the Soho

41:28

House and you're having this experience, right? I was like,

41:30

I ain't even got no Soho House membership, but hey,

41:33

y'all got to come on. I'm coming for lunch. Went

41:35

to lunch, leave. I hadn't been

41:38

in New York a while. I'm trying to

41:40

walk east. I walk west. I turn around. You

41:42

know, you just don't know what I'm saying. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm going

41:45

around. I turn around. I'm walking.

41:47

There's five brothers walking down toward

41:49

me, 14th Street. Okay. 14th

41:52

where? Okay. Yeah,

41:54

I see it. They walk in towards me

41:57

and these are brother brothers. These

41:59

are niggas.

42:03

Okay. Like coming ready. And

42:06

but they're also in Union Square. So that part,

42:08

you don't know where they're coming from. Yeah. You

42:10

know what's going on. But I'm like, what is

42:12

this? Not the belt line. What's that thing that

42:14

they got? They got some training. The, the, the,

42:16

the, the something. The

42:18

Highline Highline is some new shit that I ain't been there

42:20

before. And all the things. Yeah. Oh, you got a park

42:22

in the middle of Manhattan. Okay. All right. All right. I'm

42:25

here for it. I'm like, this is like when we was

42:27

going to the club over here, but it's fine. So

42:30

anyway, like, hey,

42:34

so they walk over to me and they

42:36

mean grilling me. Not the mean

42:38

mug. They mean mugging me hard

42:40

body. In my mind, it feels

42:43

like beat it. You're

42:45

so stupid. And here I am on the phone. Like,

42:48

yeah, no, not no little niggas either. That's

42:51

what I'm saying. So I'm like, what's

42:53

about to go down? It's you learned how

42:55

to shank in East Detroit. So

43:00

one of them says to me, he says, as I'm

43:02

trying to walk past, he was like, you think you're

43:04

going to get past me? I was

43:06

like, what? You know,

43:08

when it, when it fought, it was like, you

43:11

think you won't get past me. I see you.

43:13

We love that shit. Oh, good. Oh

43:19

my God. And I was like,

43:21

and I was like, oh

43:24

shit. Like an all in was like, yeah, man,

43:26

that's some shit. You're winning next season. And I

43:28

was like, wow.

43:32

Wow. Because the way that people

43:34

can have perceptions against uncle Clifford, you can have

43:36

perceptions against those brothers. Yeah. Do

43:38

you understand what I'm saying? But

43:40

for them to, I don't know how they identify

43:43

when they ask for no number. I ain't saying

43:45

they was on no low and stuff like that.

43:47

Because that's the other thing that people try to

43:49

say like, Oh, those that like it, they on

43:51

the low. No, they could also just like it.

43:54

Like the show. Like they are brothers with an

43:56

open mind. Well, they also, you know, they were

43:58

watching for titties. That part. And then you

44:00

snuck in. Hello!

44:04

You want some pitties in your common now? Ha

44:06

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

44:08

ha ha ha ha. But you know

44:10

what? What? They

44:13

watch in that show and they

44:15

know that that shit is happening. In

44:17

real life. Yes. Because they got

44:19

homies. Yes! You understand what

44:21

I'm saying? There are Uncle Clifford's everywhere. To different

44:23

extremes. What's the rapper's name? What rapper?

44:26

In the show. A little murder. There's little

44:28

murders everywhere. I thought you were talking about

44:30

real life. No. No. Little

44:33

murder. Yeah. Just like you

44:35

see in real life. Wait, are y'all coming back? This

44:37

track's over. Hello. Hallelujah.

44:40

Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Ooh,

44:42

so feel who I'm at. Ooh,

44:44

pass them peas. Pass them peas and penises. They're gonna be

44:46

different, Ryan. Yeah! Some koochie

44:48

gonna be wet up in her!

44:51

Come on! Come on! Some

44:53

hott's gonna be lean. Not here. The koochie's

44:55

not gonna be wet. Why your koochie gonna be wet? Because I'm out

44:57

the streets. The streets ain't

44:59

where they get wet. I mean,

45:02

I'm gonna be painting. And?

45:06

I have friend events plans. Please,

45:08

goodbye. You have friend events plans. You can paint

45:10

and you can write. You can ask. Yes, yes.

45:13

None of this to me thinks of like which koochie, though. But

45:15

it's your thoughts. I get off

45:17

when my ideas manifest and I see it

45:20

and I be like, Yo, I did that. I

45:23

did that. Yes. Yes.

45:25

Give it to me. And

45:27

I have to digest it myself. Like

45:30

doing stuff like on TV versus theater. Like I

45:32

have to sit with it and I'll watch it.

45:34

So you do watch? Absolutely. Because

45:36

you know people be like, I've never watched myself.

45:38

I'm like, oh. I watch. I watch. Do

45:41

you watch to enjoy and then watch the study? Do you watch

45:43

just the study? Like how is it for you? I

45:46

watch to see what the fuck we did. Right.

45:48

Because people don't know that we shoot

45:51

the shit and

45:53

you don't know how it's gonna end up. How it's coming together.

45:55

So who they're gonna, what they're gonna cut, what

45:57

they're gonna do. I mean, last season of insecure. We

46:01

shot so much footage,

46:04

because we usually shoot for two and a half months

46:06

and we shot for six months because of COVID, et

46:08

cetera. I was like, how y'all

46:11

gonna fit this in the show? Let

46:13

me see, let me see. Just watch. Because we was there

46:16

for 16 hours that day. Okay. I

46:18

better see every coverage. That

46:21

it was there, okay? And if you don't use it

46:23

here, you better use it online. I better see it

46:25

in the booth for real. Right, okay. It

46:28

better come up, because I bled for it. I

46:30

bled for it. Tias. For real.

46:32

Yeah, real tears, actually. I love that for

46:34

you. I mean, when you talk about it

46:37

being overwhelming,

46:40

tell me more about that feeling. Like,

46:42

is it just like shocking, like

46:44

surprising? Is it fulfilling? Is it

46:47

healing? It's not surprising. It's

46:49

not surprising because I knew my intent

46:53

in creating. And my

46:55

intention in creating was being able

46:57

to create a space where we

46:59

can be una-fucking-apologetic. Why is that

47:01

important in this iteration of Black

47:04

pop culture? Where else we gonna do

47:06

it? It's

47:08

one thing to say I'm doing it in my life, but

47:11

I'm constantly gonna be hit opposition,

47:13

right? I'm gonna constantly hit these obstacles. I'm constantly

47:16

gonna hit people telling me, no, you can't do

47:18

that, or you can't say that, or where you

47:20

going? You can get that on the

47:22

edit, in the script, you know what I'm saying?

47:24

But once you have identified what this is, the

47:27

script is there, you fall in the pocket.

47:31

I remember this one time, me and Morocco, Morocco

47:33

plays Big L, and we were in the kitchen,

47:36

and we were just talking, and he

47:38

had a toothpick, and

47:41

he was just picking his teeth and just talking.

47:43

And I was like, this is so colored. What

47:46

did you do? I was like, you should do that in the scene. And

47:48

he was like, we at the

47:50

bank. We at the bank. We

47:53

at the bank. And he did

47:55

that scene, and I was like, and

47:57

then he put the toothpick in his beard. I'm

48:00

right here to get it later. Yeah, of course.

48:02

And I was like, now that, now that, that's

48:04

a specificity that I can get down with. It

48:07

allows us to just be able to play

48:09

and like get lost. You

48:11

know, there's a lot of freedom in

48:14

that art and to be able to take that.

48:16

I know it doesn't happen all the time, Amanda.

48:18

I've been in this game a long time

48:20

and it does not happen all the time

48:23

that you get to do something that actually

48:25

feeds you. That I'm not just giving

48:27

and giving and pouring and y'all taking and taking and taking

48:29

and taking for me. That's why there

48:32

are periods on social media. Nico,

48:34

go on. Right. I'm here

48:36

and listen, and I might tap in. I'm actually

48:38

there every day, but y'all need to see what

48:40

I ate. Y'all don't need

48:42

to see, y'all don't need to see who

48:44

I'm in the car with. Y'all need to see my mama. Y'all need,

48:47

you see enough. Let

48:49

me fill up. Yeah. Let me fill

48:52

up. So when I meet these people, one

48:54

time I said some wild shit. I was

48:56

like, yo, y'all acting like Michael Jackson is back. No.

49:00

And it wasn't about like a fandom thing. It

49:03

was, it's a real reverence. Baby, I feel that

49:05

pull on my spirit. It's a reference. When people

49:07

are talking like, I'm in a club and then

49:09

the girl is like, and you don't understand another.

49:12

And I'm like, oh, she's having a whole Mississippi

49:14

moment for real, for real in real life. Come

49:17

on. Cause everybody says, oh, I'm the

49:19

this on the show. I'm the this.

49:21

They all identify with the seed themselves.

49:25

And it's like, you can't

49:27

beat that. That's worth

49:29

those 16 hours. Dead

49:32

ass. Because I'm looking at

49:34

somebody that's like, shit, I

49:36

didn't even know. I

49:38

was just in Memphis this summer. I've been in

49:40

Memphis a lot this summer working on stuff. And

49:43

it was at the Southern Heritage Classic, you know,

49:45

football game is going, I go to the tailgate.

49:47

I'm hanging in the booth with all the

49:49

Greeks. Okay. All the Greeks. I

49:51

don't want to offend nobody with the calls. Cause

49:54

y'all be the K-Memo, the divine nine.

49:56

But like I was over here with

49:58

the Zetas. with the AKA's,

50:01

I was there with the Q's

50:03

and the kappa's. Every

50:05

single black person I walked

50:07

past was acknowledging,

50:11

was embracing, and it wasn't just

50:13

on some fandom, like there

50:15

was not sign this. It

50:18

wasn't even just taking a picture. It's weird is

50:20

not the word, but. It was home,

50:22

this one black woman, she said, Uncle

50:24

Clifford coming on in, he coming over to the booth, he

50:26

coming home now. That's what she

50:28

said. The heat coming home now, come

50:30

on and they handed me a plate of some

50:32

ribs without the sauce, and

50:35

some baked beans, and some greens. Just

50:37

a little taste on the thing. Yeah.

50:39

And I'm walking around with my plate, and

50:42

I'm eating it like, what are you doing?

50:44

And I'm like, you dropping fish? Come

50:46

on, it was so like, just, it's

50:52

like when we play spades. Yeah. It's

50:54

like when we play dominoes, like it

50:56

is just rare that you get to have that. So

50:59

to be able to do that and experience it from

51:02

people who say, gay people

51:05

don't exist, or I don't like this, but

51:08

then come to me and say, my grandchild is,

51:10

I think like Uncle Clifford. Wow.

51:14

I haven't spoken to him in a long time. I'm

51:17

gonna call him. Those were like the DMs that I were

51:19

getting. I was getting DMs. This

51:21

one brother told me, I used to beat up on

51:24

people like you. He talking to

51:26

me as if I'm really Uncle Clifford. I used to

51:28

beat up on people like you. I never thought about

51:30

the fact that, you had a mom

51:32

or a family and shit like that,

51:36

or the ever going, I watch

51:38

a show with my girl. You know, they

51:40

quantify that they watch a show with a girl, they girl,

51:43

but that's some shit. Like y'all are doing some

51:45

real shit. But I felt so compelled to

51:47

contact you. Mm-hmm, yeah. And

51:50

that's in life, that's in me. It's everything.

51:53

Essenfest, this woman, she's a professor

51:55

at a college down in New

51:57

Orleans, her and her husband

51:59

were. in a line. I didn't

52:01

even know the line had started. I was just trying

52:03

to get to the bathroom, but you know, people stop

52:05

you and stuff like that. So

52:08

she's talking about how her students talk

52:10

about the show and every

52:12

week when she starts to do, they

52:15

had to give their own dissertations and

52:17

talk about the socioeconomic breakdowns and the

52:19

themes that were in the

52:21

episode and how they apply in life and what

52:23

would you do. It was literally like using it

52:25

in college and I was like, oh,

52:29

this is what you can only dream. This is

52:31

only what you could dream. I ain't talking

52:33

about no numbers and what's the ratings and

52:36

stuff like that. That's great. All of the

52:38

things, but what is happening is actually affecting

52:40

real people. Then after that,

52:42

Amanda, this man that was behind her was

52:44

her husband. I didn't know it was her

52:47

husband. He came over to me and he

52:49

had tears in his eyes and he said,

52:52

you saw my child earlier today. You

52:55

met my child and I was like, that's

52:57

nice, sir. I don't know who your child is. It's a

52:59

lot of people I've met. And

53:02

he said, my child is kind of

53:04

like Uncle Clifford. My child is kind of like

53:06

Uncle Clifford. He has

53:08

nails, a little short scissor. And

53:12

I said, were they wearing a green, olive

53:14

green shirt? And he

53:16

said, yeah, I think so. He

53:18

said, my child came home and

53:22

I haven't seen my child that happy

53:24

since they were 17. After

53:26

meeting you? And

53:28

what I see is what

53:31

you do. I'm sitting here with you right now and I

53:34

see what this is. I

53:36

didn't know how to love my child. And

53:39

I'm seeing your grandmother

53:41

Loretta Devine. I'm seeing people

53:43

love Uncle Clifford. I

53:46

didn't know that it could be just that simple.

53:49

And he was just talking and he was confessing.

53:51

And this man is crying. He's in his fifties.

53:53

He's balling. And I'm sitting here like, and you're

53:55

in Memphis. This was in

53:57

New Orleans. And

54:00

so I was becoming full and he was

54:02

like, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to take up the new

54:04

time. And I said, no, I'm gonna hold you right there.

54:06

Everybody else can wait because I give a lot. Yeah, yeah.

54:08

I give a lot. So when

54:10

it's coming and being my cup is being poured into, I'm

54:13

going to take it. I'm going to take it.

54:15

Right. You know, so it's

54:18

stuff like that. It's amazing. And I

54:20

also know it's rare. Yeah, I know

54:22

that it's rare. There are other other

54:24

queer people. I'm not the first gay

54:26

man. I ain't the first person. I'm

54:28

not the first. I'm not going to

54:30

be the last, but I swear because

54:33

it is different for me. How

54:35

can I not say something? I was

54:37

on the fucking stage girl at the

54:40

NAACP, the National Association

54:42

for the Advancement of Colored People.

54:45

And here I am with this

54:47

organization that has for so many

54:50

years had a certain reputation. That's

54:53

why I was looking crazy. I

54:55

was like, oh, shit, they really doing this? We

54:58

were, wait, oh, my God. You

55:00

see my little, my little combination

55:02

is great. Did you do AXO?

55:05

Yes, no, yes, yes, I did do AXO

55:07

too. So I know the

55:09

NAACP from back in the day, like

55:11

as a kid. The AXO is the

55:14

Academic, Cultural, Technological, Scientific Olympics. So,

55:16

you know, in high school, you go

55:18

and you can compete in all these

55:21

different competitions and things like that. So

55:23

there was just a level of investment and

55:25

connection with community that I had growing up.

55:27

So in it, I'm sitting here like, OK,

55:29

yeah, it's nice to be in the room.

55:31

And indeed it is. And I'm

55:33

sitting down and I said, oh, they got some good

55:35

seats this year. I

55:39

was nominated before, but it was in

55:41

Covid. So I live. Oh, OK. And people

55:43

talking all this stuff. You know where I was.

55:45

Where? I threw a whole little ceremony for the

55:47

NAACP at the old hotel that I used to

55:49

work at. That ass. I

55:51

called him. I was like, hey, I need to rent out the room. Rent

55:55

out the room. Oh, Nico, you don't have to

55:57

rent it out. We'll do that. Great. I appreciate.

56:00

Can I know know what? Overnight yes

56:02

via saw was there in Iraq Hims

56:04

at all is wonderful. The cast was

56:07

they have the air by. This is

56:09

our premier we haven't had not. Come

56:11

on come on it's just very black.

56:13

A very black comedy in the mony

56:16

mony in the doors open. Come in

56:18

we hear. Bring. Some cookies

56:20

bring and cupcakes from the main

56:22

guy? That okay, exactly. And

56:24

bring the liquor. Let's go,

56:27

let's celebrate. So it's it's

56:29

it's autumn things. Will. Y'all

56:31

are very that I bring into

56:33

question. And so we're going

56:35

to head over to the Him and Diverse and

56:38

answer some of the ask questions with me going

56:40

on says you want to join the Seal squad

56:42

and get his little extra taste than you know

56:44

what to do Go to the and Me a

56:47

Diverse that. Came in.

56:53

And ninety cents hands? I

56:55

legit forget to eat. And

56:57

when that happens I'm not in the

57:00

mood to try and like figure out

57:02

what I'm gong clock nom and all

57:04

some other people who simply both better

57:07

than me and I can get right

57:09

so them on door-yes that's right. listen

57:11

door that had saved young girls so

57:14

many times and if you're really bad

57:16

even get you would-pass and that gives

57:18

you a discount on the door dash

57:20

and that you are doing so they'll

57:23

be like me. don't let yourself go

57:25

the whole day and they realize. All

57:27

my dad's That's why I'm cranky

57:30

because I haven't eaten anything. Know

57:32

sappy the door-and gets his the

57:34

nutrients in your system all right.

57:37

Door. Dash your door to More!

57:39

Download the door-at now to

57:42

get almost anything delivered Door-your

57:44

door to More Must be

57:46

twenty one who are older

57:48

to order alcohol, drink responsibly

57:50

alcohol available only in select

57:52

markets. So

58:01

before we go, just tell me this. Where

58:04

do you see this

58:07

space of Black art expanding

58:09

to? Like we, I feel

58:11

like, I feel

58:14

like we've constricted and now

58:16

I feel like there's an expansion that has to happen.

58:18

We, as an industry have constricted or as a

58:20

people? Well, I feel like we've

58:22

constricted. For me, I feel like

58:25

folks got very kind of complacent and comfortable

58:27

with just like, oh, we got money now

58:29

so we can kind of focus on that

58:31

stuff. And

58:34

create stories out of that space. Yeah. Got

58:36

you. Agreed. I

58:39

love you. Like, same. Because I so forget, like, I'm

58:41

like, forget that there's a camera here. I'm

58:44

just like, that's why I was like,

58:46

yeah girl. I

58:51

think that for me, I hope

58:53

that this show, being as unapologetic

58:55

as it is, inspires other people

58:58

to be that bold in their

59:00

truth. I think that.

59:03

And not to be movies, bold,

59:05

not that kind of. Listen,

59:07

because listen, I have a friend who is

59:09

putting things onto that platform because he doesn't

59:11

have the access to like the big studios

59:13

and stuff like that. But

59:15

we talk about all the time, make

59:18

it, keep it integral. Keep it. What

59:21

are you saying? Yeah. What

59:23

are you doing? Yeah. You know

59:25

what I mean? Long ass pause, this

59:27

drama. There's some

59:29

of that that's on that's not on to me. Okay.

59:32

I mean, I just saw the movie,

59:34

Past Lives, and there was like a

59:36

good like pancy and just like staring

59:38

at each other thing. And

59:41

I was like, I get it. But I, what,

59:44

I don't know that we needed that. I

59:46

remember also in high school, Christian Barringer, we

59:48

used to have to do a monologue every

59:50

week. And she would forget.

59:53

And so she would end up. She would forget to do

59:55

the monologue. She would, we would, we're

59:58

seniors. Like It'd be like, oh, how did. Get

1:00:00

a chance to idol never forget the she did

1:00:02

his mind my lot of the with honestly five

1:00:04

lines because it was like. You

1:00:07

are Not here. And.

1:00:18

Arms or am I getting wrestling

1:00:20

with. I guess

1:00:23

I'd say that's right side and I

1:00:25

wonder though like even have a conversation

1:00:27

about like not to beep beep or

1:00:29

you said not to be was. Not

1:00:32

to be thy you said to him was

1:00:34

you say I care of a baby either

1:00:36

To be as a is A is an

1:00:38

aesthetic at this point. Where is. But are

1:00:40

we being like a leaders? Yes. okay.

1:00:43

And Lisbon sometimes. If nothing wrong with

1:00:45

that, there's a place for everything, I

1:00:47

think. That when it comes to

1:00:50

black popular culture and leaders, I'm

1:00:52

doesn't have to be couched in

1:00:54

respectability. Agreed or south and

1:00:56

percent of thousand. Is more so

1:00:58

quality and salvation? Yes Yes! So I

1:01:00

don't think it's like a leaders I'm

1:01:02

like oh this is better than you.

1:01:04

It's more just like can we not

1:01:06

is due to see just because we

1:01:08

can Cause I'm talking. About like own and

1:01:10

Mccandless Yes! And sometimes I think we

1:01:12

will still operates on a place of

1:01:15

scarcity. Vs. Abundance in that.

1:01:17

And I have you know in the D I

1:01:19

Y we need some. We do that unless. I

1:01:21

agree with that, but I also think that that

1:01:23

might be a part of. Because. Of

1:01:25

technology. We're seeing all of the

1:01:27

the little recital. normally that she

1:01:29

would go see your cousin doing

1:01:31

acts and now it's just like

1:01:33

everybody is putting their Basements show

1:01:36

online. I. Did mean you have all

1:01:38

you have. But. Sometimes I

1:01:40

think we ought. I'm. Speaking

1:01:42

for myself like so be like let me just pulls out

1:01:44

and a slang. Challenge. Yourself. To.

1:01:48

Elevate. It isn't right. Like you don't need

1:01:50

to necessarily have more money to elevate and

1:01:52

need is needed. Give yourself a little bit

1:01:54

more. Or. Be

1:01:56

a little more fearless. In. Bringing

1:01:58

other folks' opinions, And, you

1:02:01

know, kind of just letting the

1:02:03

ego go. Do you think you

1:02:05

get that because of who you are? Because you've had

1:02:07

mentorship though? I didn't have mentorship. I

1:02:10

didn't really have mentorship. I feel like I had

1:02:13

training. You

1:02:15

know, but I didn't really, I don't feel like I had.

1:02:17

There's a difference. Because if I had had mentorship, I feel

1:02:19

like my nervous system would have been a lot calmer. Like

1:02:24

I was always spending, like fighting for

1:02:26

myself because I didn't have anyone to go to, to

1:02:28

be like. So this happened and how could

1:02:30

I have managed this better? And how could I have dealt with

1:02:32

this better? Like it was just bumps and bruises and bumps and

1:02:35

bruises and bumps and bruises until

1:02:37

you just like, let me,

1:02:39

let me stop and

1:02:41

figure out how to not and do that on my

1:02:43

own because there isn't anyone to really, and that's what

1:02:45

therapy has helped me with. But

1:02:49

you sir, are an icon. How does it feel?

1:02:52

Why do you say that? Because you

1:02:54

already said it. You said that sir

1:02:56

had a gallery of individuals.

1:02:59

I mean, I mean,

1:03:01

but that's Tyrone somewhere over in. Who do

1:03:03

you think determines who icons are? Baby, you

1:03:05

better say it and bring it all around.

1:03:09

You better say it and bring it. That's who

1:03:11

makes icons. The people, the

1:03:13

people who make icons. That's

1:03:16

why when you call yourself a genius, it's like, shut the fuck

1:03:18

up. Someone else

1:03:20

calls you. You're like, yeah. Oh, yes. Oh,

1:03:24

yes. Shimonet. Well, we love you.

1:03:28

We love what you're contributing to this black

1:03:31

popular culture space. We

1:03:34

love that you are a master

1:03:36

blackpert. I am

1:03:38

because of you. I'm happy. I

1:03:40

love you. I love you.

1:03:43

Your resilience, your creativity, nothing is ever

1:03:45

going to stop you. There

1:03:47

are a lot of people that are

1:03:49

inspired by what you do and see

1:03:51

you. Just know that

1:03:54

it is difficult. Absolutely.

1:03:57

This shit ain't easy at

1:03:59

all. What makes you keep going though? What

1:04:02

else am I gonna be at Earth? You

1:04:05

could be a professor. It's the same bullshit

1:04:07

everywhere you go. That is correct. So

1:04:10

you just decide which bullshit you, or if

1:04:12

you're lucky, you get to decide which bullshit

1:04:14

you feel most fulfilled by. What

1:04:17

can you get the most nutrients out

1:04:19

of? And as far as this space,

1:04:21

I have always loved black popular culture

1:04:23

before I even knew what it was,

1:04:25

before I even got a name for

1:04:27

it. And it is an honor to

1:04:30

be considered someone who is pouring into

1:04:32

the canon of it. And it

1:04:34

is an honor to have you here with us as

1:04:36

another who does the same. It's an

1:04:38

honor to be here. I'm

1:04:45

not even frightened. Sometimes I legit

1:04:47

forget to eat. And when

1:04:49

that happens, I'm not in the mood to try

1:04:51

and like figure out what I'm gonna cook, nah.

1:04:53

And I also know there's people who simply cook

1:04:56

better than me and I can get right to

1:04:58

them on DoorDash.

1:05:00

Yes, that's right. Listen,

1:05:03

DoorDash has saved your

1:05:05

girl so many times.

1:05:08

And if you're really about it, you can

1:05:10

get you a dash pass and that can get

1:05:12

you a discount on the DoorDash in that

1:05:14

you're doing. So don't be like me. Don't let

1:05:16

yourself go the whole day and then realize,

1:05:19

oh my gosh, that's why I'm

1:05:21

cranky because I haven't eaten anything.

1:05:23

No, tap into DoorDash and get

1:05:25

you some nutrients in your system,

1:05:27

all right? DoorDash, your

1:05:29

door to more. Download the

1:05:32

DoorDash app now to get

1:05:34

almost anything delivered. DoorDash, your

1:05:36

door to more. Must be

1:05:38

21 or older to order

1:05:40

alcohol. Drink responsibly. Alcohol available

1:05:42

only in select markets. I'm

1:05:47

not even frightened. Sometimes I legit

1:05:49

forget to eat. And when

1:05:51

that happens, I'm not in the mood to try

1:05:53

and like figure out what I'm gonna cook, nah.

1:05:55

And I also know there's people who will simply

1:05:57

cook better than me and I can get right.

1:06:00

right to them on

1:06:02

DoorDash. Yes, that's right.

1:06:04

Listen, DoorDash has saved

1:06:06

your girl so many

1:06:09

times. And if you're

1:06:11

really bad at it, you can get

1:06:13

you a dash pass and that can

1:06:15

get you a discount on the DoorDash

1:06:17

and that you're doing. So don't be

1:06:19

like me. Don't let yourself go the

1:06:21

whole day and then realize, oh my

1:06:23

gosh, that's why I'm cranky because I

1:06:25

haven't eaten anything. No, tap into DoorDash

1:06:27

and get you some nutrients in your

1:06:29

system, all right? DoorDash, your

1:06:31

door to more. Download

1:06:33

the DoorDash app now to

1:06:36

get almost anything delivered. DoorDash,

1:06:38

your door to more. Must

1:06:40

be 21 or older to

1:06:42

order alcohol. Drink responsibly. Alcohol

1:06:44

available only in select markets.