0:02

Hey y'all our knowledge I know that

0:04

you can get more small doses. Yes

0:06

I am now doing weekly small doses

0:08

bonus episode and they are for my

0:10

people at the Seal Squad. So if

0:12

you and get in the Nevada is

0:14

baby there is more for you. This

0:16

a little taste of what you get

0:18

when it comes a black folks. I

0:20

think that we are really in trouble

0:22

when it comes to the concept of

0:24

having you say space. particularly in our

0:26

media spaces. I don't think we have

0:28

say suisse's I think that we have

0:30

spaces that are labeled as. Black, but

0:32

they are not in any way

0:35

really protective and I think that

0:37

says something. Has

0:40

more polish. It makes all of that go

0:42

down. And let me tell you something, I'm

0:44

having a great time. Get to be more

0:47

connected with ya because what We do The

0:49

Small Doses bonus Episodes We Do Them Lives.

0:51

Are you going to be in the chat

0:53

interacting with yours truly? So if you've been

0:55

thinking about do I want to drive Adrian?

0:57

Now's the time. Become a member of the

0:59

Seal Squad and expand. Your love of the

1:02

Small doses. Gets you More Doses. Small Doses

1:04

Been is episodes at P on.com. Before

1:08

we get this episode of Small Doses

1:10

Podcast, want to show that everybody who

1:13

came through to my shows in Dallas?

1:15

I'll next be in Stamford, Connecticut on

1:17

April twenty seven. Get your ticket that

1:19

Amanda cel.com I'll be doing that only

1:21

stand there but also intimate that we

1:24

trust my political com A documentary screenings

1:26

that also involve trivia and a poor

1:28

i'm with me and the people that

1:30

go. The one we and in Dallas

1:33

was so incredible. Folks really does getting

1:35

activated, getting energize, and of course getting

1:37

informed. And which is the thing that I

1:39

think we need to do most first and foremost

1:41

up really trying to level up and create the

1:44

change we wish to see. So make sure you

1:46

get your tickets! April Twenty Seventh Saber, Connecticut at

1:48

the New York Comedy Club and of those kind

1:50

of confusing but it's near Comedy Club is the

1:53

ever Connecticut A or take it that it made

1:55

it feel.com And in May I'm com and a

1:57

Baltimore uncommon A Boston and I'm come into raw

1:59

enough. Carolina June you can catch me

2:02

in Detroit and we're also locking

2:04

in dates for Toronto DC Oakland

2:06

Atlanta New York and London and possibly more

2:08

so you know what to do sign up

2:10

for my newsletter at Amanda seals Com so

2:12

you can make sure that you don't miss

2:14

out when I'm coming to your town Also

2:17

want to remind you that if you have not

2:19

signed up for my patreon that you are missing

2:21

out on our weekly small doses bonus episodes If

2:24

you're trying to figure out like what our small dose of bonus episodes

2:26

that I was like well think of it

2:28

like the weekly rack up in like my life

2:30

and What's so dope is

2:32

that we also do a live chat room while

2:34

I'm recording so people get to be a part

2:36

of the recording Ask questions comments etc, and it's

2:39

really become a whole community So if you want

2:41

to join us and be a part of that

2:43

make sure that you sign up for my patreon

2:45

go to either Patreon Amanda seals or you can

2:47

go to the Amanda verse calm and come and

2:49

rock out with us for our small doses bonus

2:51

Episodes last but not least make sure you check

2:54

out the Amanda Seals show That's my radio show

2:56

you can get us wherever you get your podcast

2:58

You can also check us out in select cities

3:00

where we are syndicated. We got so much

3:02

coming for you We are so excited for

3:04

the next few episodes and just know that

3:06

small doses podcast is continuing to expand and

3:08

growth Because we are all about y'all and

3:11

every time I see y'all on the road

3:13

that you tell me that small doses podcast

3:15

has changed your life Or informed you or

3:17

helped you it really just feeds me I'd

3:19

love to know that we have to keep

3:21

on going and keep on growing. All right,

3:23

let's get into this next episode Welcome

3:47

to another edition of small

3:49

doses podcast Today's

3:52

guest is somebody who I think really

3:55

exemplifies for us the

3:57

epitome of standing on business Linda

4:00

Sarsour is a

4:03

vocal voice

4:05

for social justice. And

4:08

particularly in the last

4:10

month since October 7th,

4:13

she, I think a

4:15

lot of folks may have only known since Linda

4:18

Sarsour due to her work with Until Freedom, which

4:20

is with Tamika Mallory and MySaun

4:23

and their work in Black communities,

4:25

particularly dealing with police brutality, their

4:27

work with Breonna Taylor, their work

4:30

working to not get Daniel

4:32

Cameron and his coon ass elected governor

4:34

of Kentucky, like they are consistently on

4:36

the ground, their work with cop city,

4:38

etc. And Linda

4:40

is also Palestinian. And

4:43

I know for me, seeing what

4:45

has been taking place in

4:47

Palestine since October 7th

4:49

really made me understand

4:52

Linda Sarsour. What

4:54

it is to come from those people

4:58

who have had to exist

5:01

in this type of

5:04

tyranny for so long, what it is

5:06

to be of that bloodline. And

5:11

so often I see people say, well, why should black

5:13

people care about what's going on in Palestine? Like they

5:15

don't care about us. And like Linda Sarsour is a

5:18

shining example that that is simply just untrue.

5:21

But also that what really needs to

5:23

happen is that we need to be caring about each other.

5:25

More of us need to be caring about each other. The

5:28

oppressed are far

5:30

more greater in numbers than the oppressors. Imagine

5:33

if all of us could

5:36

get on the same page at the very

5:38

least of the fact that

5:40

we need to come together. And

5:43

what Linda Sarsour exemplifies is not

5:45

just the act of coming together,

5:47

but also the continued

5:51

forward movement

5:54

of demanding change, of

5:57

disrupting. exemplifies

6:00

for us what it means to

6:02

not just be a quote-unquote activist,

6:04

but to be an organizer. And

6:07

that's what our gem drop is going to be,

6:09

the difference between being an activist and an organizer.

6:12

And these words are a little bit cumbersome

6:14

sometimes. They don't have, like

6:16

I feel like sometimes they don't have like

6:19

a hard line and they get, you know,

6:21

moved back and forth and, you know, kind

6:23

of traversed through language. But it's really important

6:25

to identify when people are one,

6:27

the other, or both. Because

6:30

it's so difficult. You're

6:32

dealing with people, you're dealing

6:34

with oppressors and the oppressed, you're

6:36

dealing with time, you're dealing

6:38

with exhaustion. But regardless, you

6:41

stay the course. And

6:43

that's what Linda, I feel like really shows me. And

6:45

the first time I ever met Linda, it was just

6:47

so refreshing that like she just said, gee, like Linda

6:49

is just a gee. And I know some of that

6:51

is about being Palestinian and some of that is being

6:54

from New York. Like,

6:56

and she'll tell you that like, I'm from New

6:58

York, son. And so

7:01

I'm so happy to have Linda on the

7:03

show today. And this is our first time

7:05

meeting in person to be able

7:07

to have like a real conversation. Like we met before,

7:09

but it was like at a press conference for cop

7:11

city. Like we couldn't like chop it up like that.

7:13

So this is the first time that we get to

7:15

really, really chop it up and

7:18

just, you know, have each other's

7:20

space. Now this was recorded

7:22

in January of 2024. So

7:24

there's a lot of things that have happened since then. So

7:26

I just want you all to keep that context. If

7:29

we are not addressing certain things that you feel like, well,

7:31

how come they didn't talk about that? So I just want

7:33

to tell y'all that. And I also just

7:35

want to point out that we

7:37

asked our guests to wear pink

7:39

or red. And a lot of

7:41

times people forget or they just, you know, didn't get

7:44

the memo, but honey, Linda,

7:46

sorry, I got the memo. Okay, let's

7:48

do a gem drop. So

7:57

today's gem drop in is versus

8:01

organizer. Now I get called

8:03

an activist a lot and I

8:05

take it as I activate. I take

8:07

it as I speak about things, I

8:09

put out content, I share ideas that

8:12

activate people. It puts a battery in their

8:15

back or it makes their brain think a

8:17

different way or it makes

8:19

them you know kind of adjust their

8:21

actions. Activate. Activist.

8:24

And there's a lot of different versions of

8:26

that. Now I've had people

8:28

say to me, you need to choose between

8:30

being a celebrity or an activist. And

8:33

I say, when did you choose to be an idiot?

8:36

And I know that sometimes when I say things

8:38

like that y'all are like, see Amanda that's why

8:41

people don't like you. And I'm fine with that.

8:43

I'm fine with that because that is such a

8:45

comment bereft of intellect. When

8:48

we look at people like Harry Belafonte, Dick

8:51

Gregory, we look at

8:53

people like Aussie and Ruby Dee, we look at

8:55

people like Aretha Franklin, we look

8:58

at people like Muhammad Ali, okay. We

9:01

are looking at people who are

9:03

celebrities and activists, who

9:06

understand that their celebrity is what

9:09

can help activate their activism,

9:12

who understand that their

9:14

platform is a responsibility

9:16

and maybe be an obligation. So

9:19

many folks are so okay with

9:21

people just being

9:24

in the capitalist space of

9:26

commercialism. You're literally telling me damn girl

9:28

why won't you just make your money and shut up?

9:30

And that's not how I

9:32

want to live. But what I also

9:34

know is that I'm not an organizer. An

9:37

organizer is somebody who is on the ground in

9:39

the trenches with the people. They

9:42

are putting the logistics together. They

9:44

are creating vision for how to

9:46

take what we know we need

9:49

and make it come to fruition. They

9:51

are pulling in the people inside the

9:53

political spaces. They're pulling in the people

9:55

outside. They're having to deal with the

9:57

money. They're having to deal with the

9:59

minds. They're having to deal

10:01

with the landmines. They are the

10:04

actual spine of change.

10:07

And that's why when I do my shows,

10:09

I really try my best to find organizers

10:12

in those cities to come on my shows

10:14

and talk to the audience at the end

10:16

of my set and share

10:18

with the audience what they're doing. Because whatever

10:20

you think needs to change, I promise you

10:23

there's somebody already doing it. I

10:25

promise you, those are your organizers. Now

10:28

some of us feel like, damn, if I'm just

10:31

activists, am I doing enough? And

10:33

it was Erica Ford who was

10:35

an incredible organizer in New York

10:38

who said to me, Amanda, you said it here

10:40

on this show, she said, Amanda, you are the

10:42

bullhorn. You are the person

10:44

who is speaking the loudest and

10:46

amplifying what we're doing and what needs

10:48

to be done. And we need people

10:50

in that role as well. You

10:53

see, the thing about change and revolution and resistance is

10:55

that there's a role for everybody. I

10:57

mean, even if your role is to cook, revolutionaries

10:59

get hungry. You know what

11:02

I'm saying? Like there's a role for everybody.

11:04

There's a role for activists and there's a role for

11:07

organizers. And Linda Sarsour

11:09

is in both of those buckets. I

11:11

ask you guys, what bucket are

11:13

you in? Because within those

11:15

two buckets, there's also a lot of spaces that

11:17

we can be filled in, that you can fill.

11:20

Where can you be filling? Let's

11:23

get into this stuff. You

11:28

know, black media is really its own

11:30

unique space because the black existence, particularly

11:32

in America, is its own unique space.

11:34

And even as we are watching that

11:36

erasure and the legislative effort to undermine

11:39

the necessity to be literally

11:42

intentional with making

11:44

spaces for black people in a country

11:46

that was very intentional and continues to

11:48

be intentional in keeping black people out

11:50

of spaces of equity, we

11:52

know that black media has to be on

11:54

top of that. We know that black media

11:57

has to be able to speak to our

11:59

unique existence. So when it comes to the

12:01

next generation of influential Black voices, I'm really happy

12:03

to see that they can be found on NPR's

12:05

new collection, Black Stories Black Truths. Black

12:07

Stories Black Truths is a celebration

12:09

of Blackness from NPR. Each of

12:11

NPR's Black voices are as distinct,

12:13

varied, and nuanced as the Black

12:15

experience itself. In Black Stories

12:18

Black Truths collection, you'll hear stories of

12:20

joy, resilience, empowerment, and creating world-shifting

12:22

things out of struggle. Every

12:24

episode is a living account about what it

12:27

means to be Black today, told from a

12:29

unique Black perspective. From Bobby Schmurda

12:31

to The Wire, Michelle Obama to

12:33

Reparations, there's no limit to the

12:35

range of Black Stories Black Truths.

12:38

Black perspectives haven't always been centered in

12:40

the telling of America's story, but now

12:43

they are the story. In NPR's Black

12:45

Stories Black Truths, you'll find a collection of

12:47

some of NPR's best podcast episodes celebrating

12:50

the Black experience. So hear a

12:52

feed of episodes from across NPR's podcast

12:54

that center Black voices. It's

12:57

NPR Noire. Turn on

12:59

NPR today and hear a range of voices that's

13:01

varied, nuanced, and beligity Black as a country we

13:03

reflect. Stories should never

13:06

be about us without us.

13:08

Listen now to Black Stories Black Truths

13:10

from NPR, wherever you get your podcasts.

13:16

You're out here hustling, but you're also

13:18

using the McDonald's app to have your

13:20

favorites delivered to your door. That's hustling.

13:23

Smarter. Order big delivery in the McDonald's

13:25

app. I participated in the McDonald's. Hello,

13:32

people. Welcome. Look

13:35

at who's here with me. In pink,

13:37

no less. We

13:39

are joined today. Talk about

13:41

side effects of freedom fighters. A freedom

13:44

fighter. Who,

13:47

by the way, I feel like it

13:49

took forever before I met you. Right.

13:52

I felt like I knew you my whole life, but to

13:54

meet you in person, it was it took a while. That

13:57

was a big scoop of kindness that

13:59

you just made. just doled out at the top of the

14:01

show. Oh, I've been on the Amanda Seuss tip, honey. Long

14:04

time ago, what are you talking about? Hello. Yes,

14:06

ma'am. How so? From Tamika?

14:08

Tamika Mallory, all my people, you know? Yeah, we

14:10

have a lot of mutuals. A lot of mutuals.

14:13

A lot of mutuals. Tamika was on the show

14:15

doing side effects of woke, explaining

14:17

what woke actually is. And

14:19

so folks don't know, Linda, I

14:23

feel like a lot of people have come

14:25

to know you through your work with Until

14:27

Freedom and just

14:30

the American freedom

14:32

fighting of really just

14:34

everything, because it's not just police

14:37

brutality, it's this whole system

14:39

of existence. But then in

14:41

the last few months, I think a lot

14:43

of folks who may have always just known you as, like,

14:45

oh yeah, Linda be wearing the hijab. They're like, oh, Linda's

14:47

Palestinian. And

14:51

now it starts to make even more

14:53

sense how you are this thorough. That's

14:56

right. You are one

14:58

of the thoroughest. And not just because you're from

15:00

Brooklyn. Well, that's kind of part of it though.

15:04

It's a foundational part of it. Yes. So can

15:06

you please just tell me, how do you feel

15:08

like you got into this line of work? Because

15:11

it's a calling. Listen, Amanda,

15:14

nobody grows up like as a

15:16

kid and says, when I grow up, I wanna

15:18

be a badly paid activist and work 27 hours,

15:20

days, nine days a week. That's just not a

15:22

thing that people grow up with. I wanted to

15:24

be a high school English teacher. I watched, this

15:26

is so embarrassing when I think about it now,

15:29

but I watched this movie called Dangerous Minds. Swim,

15:32

Michelle Pfeiffer. Been spending most of

15:34

my swimming in the kingdom, paradise

15:37

back. And I was like, you know, I'm

15:39

gonna be a high school English teacher and I'm

15:41

gonna go back to my old high school and

15:43

I'm gonna inspire these young people of

15:45

color. And I'm gonna have this great life. I'm

15:48

gonna get off at three o'clock. I'm gonna have summers

15:50

off. That's gonna be my big dream. So Michelle Pfeiffer

15:52

really like instilled in you, like, I gotta go back

15:54

and teach the babies. That's literally. And I watched the

15:56

babies in the movie and I was like, those are

15:58

the types of kids that I. with their,

16:00

from my community. And I was like, this is what I'm going to do

16:02

with my life. And then I'm a college

16:04

student and the horrific attacks of 9-11

16:06

happened in New York city. And,

16:09

oh, what year were you? I was 2001. What

16:12

year in college were you? Where were you? I

16:14

was third year in college. Are you a

16:16

class of 99? I am actually class of

16:18

97 because I graduated high school early.

16:20

I'm a born in 1980. Flex!

16:24

And, but that was a junior that, I was junior in

16:26

2001 as well. And so

16:28

I was just in a, you know,

16:30

I lived in a Muslim community and

16:33

I was wearing shajab. I had only been wearing shajab for

16:35

two years at that time. And that

16:37

day was just the day that transformed my life forever. I

16:39

walked home to my community because there was no public

16:41

transportation. And just within the

16:44

first couple of hours, first couple

16:46

of days, I watched the whole transformation. I

16:48

went from just being a regular, you know,

16:50

person from Brooklyn, New York. I lived in

16:52

a diverse community. I never felt like an

16:54

outsider. I never felt like I didn't belong.

16:57

And then all of a sudden the United

16:59

States government descended on the communities that I

17:01

was from. They raided coffee shops and businesses.

17:03

Literally men were being kidnapped from their

17:05

homes in Brooklyn, New York. Like this is Brooklyn.

17:08

This is not like Afghanistan. And

17:10

because I spoke both English and Arabic, when I

17:12

was at the mosque, I found myself translating. Like

17:14

that was what I knew. That's the only skill

17:17

I had. And

17:19

then I started translating for women who were looking for

17:21

their loved ones in this abyss of a system that

17:23

just literally kidnapped their husbands off the face of the

17:25

earth. And I've been here ever since,

17:27

Amanda. I was like, yeah, this is not right. This

17:30

shouldn't be happening. And I started volunteering

17:32

as a translator. I visited detention centers

17:35

across the Northeast. And I was like,

17:38

this is outrageous. And then what part of

17:40

that was outrageous? First of all, the conditions of

17:42

these places that they kept these men. I mean,

17:44

the minute I would walk into some of these

17:46

immigration detention centers, whether the ones in Manhattan, whether

17:48

it was in New Jersey, the

17:50

conditions were horrific. Like they smelled like urine.

17:52

Like when you walked in there, you saw

17:55

people with children and the way it looked,

17:57

it was chaotic. Immigration detention centers are different.

18:00

than prisons in general, because these people don't have due

18:02

process. Like, they don't even have, their rights have been

18:04

stripped from them. And it just bothered me, like as

18:06

a young person, I was like, this is not right.

18:09

And that's it. And it was like one of those

18:11

things, like you got in and I was like, well,

18:13

wait a minute, if I don't fight for my people,

18:15

who's gonna fight for my people? And then somehow I

18:17

just naturally stayed. And then finally I

18:19

was like, wait a minute, it's not just my

18:21

people, it's black people who also

18:24

could be Muslim. It's also the undocumented people

18:26

who also could be my people too. And

18:28

I just started making connections in ways as a

18:30

young person that grew up in Brooklyn. That's like, wait a minute,

18:33

we're all in this together. And that's kind

18:35

of how I branched out as a like

18:37

immigrant rights activist, racial justice, working in the

18:39

police kind of brutality or anti-police

18:41

brutality space. And I've been organizing ever

18:43

since it's been 22 years that I've been doing

18:45

this work. How do you keep

18:49

yourself from, okay, so

18:51

I know that as somebody who

18:53

is similar to you and where there's, I feel

18:55

like I can always spot like that's an injustice.

18:59

I'm like where's Wilder of injustice? Like I feel like

19:01

if I walk into a room, I can always point

19:03

out like, now see why they got her over there.

19:05

That shouldn't be going on. Why they got that like

19:07

that? How do you

19:09

keep yourself from not overstretching

19:11

yourself because you can't solve everything? I

19:16

haven't mastered that, Amanda. I'm the lady at the mall that sees

19:18

a cop talking to a woman of color and I will stand

19:20

there. If it got to be

19:22

45 minutes, I will stand and watch the whole interaction happen

19:25

to make sure that that person walks away safely. I'm

19:28

the lady that will be like, stop right here. We

19:31

gotta see. And my family's like, what are you talking

19:33

about? I'm like, I wanna see this cop finish this

19:35

little situation right here, like mopping people on the side

19:37

of the highway. It's just something in me.

19:39

I'm obsessive about it. I don't like to see people harmed.

19:41

I don't like to be in a situation where I

19:44

walk away saying, I could have done something. I

19:46

could have done something and I didn't do. And

19:48

it's literally like, I actually wrote a whole book based

19:50

on this concept. Like I'm not here to be a

19:53

bystander. Like that's just not ever gonna be me. And

19:55

if you could call me drama, you could call me what

19:57

you want. But I will never see a person

19:59

in a situation either being

20:01

impacted by a harm or actually

20:03

harmed directly and me being there physically

20:05

and not doing anything about it. It's just never gonna

20:07

be me. I am the same. People

20:10

are like, you're gonna die because of that. So

20:12

be it. I wonder though,

20:14

like, where did that come from?

20:16

I don't know where that came from. Like,

20:18

I genuinely, like, it's not like I feel like

20:20

I grew up in an environment where I watch

20:22

people not be bystanders. So I'm not really sure,

20:24

like, I don't know if this came

20:27

from, like, something I watched on TV or what work

20:29

for you. Do you have any idea where this

20:31

idea of, like, I just am not

20:33

gonna be a bystander came from? Was it developed? Was it

20:35

always there? I'm the oldest of

20:37

seven children. Gotcha. So when I was 10 years

20:40

old, my mother already had all seven of her

20:42

kids. So imagine I was 10 and I

20:44

had six siblings that were younger than me. Wow.

20:46

And my mother English was her second language. My

20:49

father English was his second language. I was the family

20:51

social worker. I was the case manager. I was the

20:53

one that was on the phone with the utility company.

20:55

I was always, like, on the front

20:58

lines. And I didn't like to see people disrespect

21:00

my parents because they didn't speak English. Like, I

21:02

always stood up for my family. And then, you

21:04

know, my sisters was getting a little, in a

21:06

little stuff. You know how the sisters are. They'd

21:08

be always getting stuff. And I'm the oldest. I

21:10

got to step up. I got to go defend

21:12

my sisters. Three o'clock. I'm there. I'm outside. And

21:14

so I felt like it came from that. I

21:16

think being the oldest of seven children. And then

21:18

also, that's where the Palestinian came in for me.

21:20

My parents, I didn't grow up in a

21:22

conservative Muslim family. I grew up actually more

21:24

in a Palestinian nationalist family. But my parents,

21:26

for them, it was so

21:28

important for me to know that I was Palestinian

21:31

and to learn about what it meant to be

21:33

Palestinian. To go back to Pal, when I was growing

21:35

up, I went to Palestine many times because my parents

21:37

wanted me to be connected to my

21:39

culture. And I got to experience

21:42

Palestine, not just as the place that my family

21:44

was from. I got to experience oppression. Like, I

21:46

remember going to visit my uncle in a prison

21:49

and being like, well, why is my uncle there? And

21:51

someone having to explain to me, oh, well, your uncle was

21:53

in a group of men. And

21:55

then the IDF came and they detained them all.

21:57

And then my uncle was in this what they

21:59

called. arbitrary detention where they just could

22:01

make it up as they go along. People are

22:04

not often charged with crimes. And it's like six

22:06

months and then you do another six months, it's whatever they

22:08

feel like it. And so even as a young child going

22:10

to Palestine, I was like, this is not right. And then

22:12

my mom had to sit me down and be like, let's

22:14

explain what's going on here. Why are there soldiers here? Why

22:16

is there an occupation? What happened? What's the... So

22:18

I got to learn my lineage and

22:21

my story. And then I was able to be

22:23

the person in the US that invoked my

22:25

Palestinian-ness. I was very clear that I was

22:28

unapologetically Palestinian, which is what my parents

22:30

taught us to be. They said, if anybody asks you where

22:32

you're from, yes, you're born and raised

22:34

in Brooklyn, but you are Palestinian. And I think

22:36

that's part of it. That coupled with being the

22:38

oldest child, that coupled with being a child of

22:40

immigrants, it just made me like,

22:42

I'm always 10 toes down every time,

22:44

everywhere, every place you could always count on

22:47

me in that space. And that's kind of how I'm known in

22:49

the movement. That is absolutely how you

22:51

are known in the movement. 10

22:53

toes down. Okay, do

22:55

you feel this way? Like when you're a 10 toes down kind

22:57

of person, it almost feels like you have to be perfect. People

23:00

expect that you don't make errors.

23:03

Do you feel that type of pressure? Oh,

23:05

yeah. My whole 22

23:07

years of organizing, whether it be

23:10

from my own community, look, I'm a woman

23:12

and I'm outside. I say what I say, when I

23:14

want to say it, how I want to say it.

23:17

I've been critiqued for my political ideology. I've been

23:20

critiqued, as you know, as a Palestinian for

23:22

the positions I take as a Palestinian who comes

23:24

from a family that lived under a military

23:26

occupation and continues to live under one. And

23:28

it's so funny because when I say

23:31

something, it's heavily

23:33

scrutinized. But somebody else could say

23:35

the same thing that I said, and for some reason,

23:37

it doesn't have the same impact. And I

23:39

think it's because of the identities I bring to the table. People

23:41

don't expect me to be who I am. They look at me

23:43

and they say, what is this modest

23:45

Muslim woman in a hijab doing outside? How

23:48

could her voice be so loud? And sometimes people

23:51

will try to paint me as an anomaly.

23:53

Like this is not how Muslim women are actually,

23:55

she's just like, or like almost a rebel,

23:57

like a rebellion. Not knowing that there are... plenty

23:59

of other Muslim women out there and you

24:01

know some of them. I mean these women are

24:04

outside, they are articulate, they are educated, they're

24:06

ten toes down, not just in the movement

24:08

but in many sectors. Physicians, social workers, doctors, I

24:10

mean people that work in every level of

24:12

every sector. And so I think a lot of

24:14

people that are like me are shattering a

24:16

lot of the stereotypes that this

24:19

country has peddled for so long about

24:21

Muslims, particularly Muslim women. And then here

24:23

comes people like us like crashing

24:25

it down everywhere we go and they don't like

24:27

that. And so when they don't like that, what

24:30

they start to do is focus on what

24:33

they believe are your flaws. Nobody's perfect. Of course,

24:35

I'm not educated in every single issue. There are

24:37

going to be times where we might

24:39

stumble here and there. But

24:42

my track record speaks for itself and that's what I

24:44

tell people. I tell people I'm not judged just by my

24:46

words, judge me by my actions, judge me by the places

24:48

I've been and the things that I have done. And that's

24:50

kind of why I'm still here. Because if I would have

24:53

just sat there listening to the people that I got some

24:55

things to say about what I do and

24:57

I would have been, it's

24:59

a bad, I would have been gone. You

25:05

know, black media is really it's on

25:07

unique space because the black existence, particularly

25:09

in America, is it's on unique space.

25:11

And even as we are watching that

25:14

erasure and the legislative effort to undermine

25:16

the necessity to be literally

25:18

intentional with making spaces for black

25:20

people in a country that was

25:22

very intentional and continues to be

25:25

intentional in keeping black people out

25:27

of spaces of equity, we

25:29

know that black media has to be on

25:31

top of that. We know that black media

25:34

has to be able to speak to our

25:36

unique existence. So when it comes to the

25:38

next generation of influential black voices, I'm really happy

25:40

to see that they can be found on NPR's

25:42

new collection, Black Stories, Black Truth. Black

25:44

Stories, Black Truth is a celebration

25:46

of blackness from NPR. Each of

25:49

NPR's black voices are as distinct,

25:51

varied, and nuanced as the black

25:53

experience itself. In Black Stories,

25:55

Black Truth's collection, you'll hear stories

25:57

of joy, resilience, empowerment, and creating

25:59

world- shifting things out of struggle. Every

26:02

episode is a living account about what it

26:04

means to be black today told from a

26:06

unique black perspective, from Bobby Shmurda

26:08

to the wire, Michelle Obama to

26:10

reparations, there's no limit to the

26:12

range of black stories, black truth.

26:15

Black perspectives haven't always been centered in

26:17

the telling of America story, but now

26:20

they are the story. In NPR's Black

26:22

Stories, Black Truths, you'll find a collection of

26:24

some of NPR's best podcast episodes celebrating

26:27

the black experience. So hear a

26:29

feed of episodes from across NPR's podcasts

26:31

that center black voices. It's

26:34

NPR Noire. Turn on

26:36

NPR today and hear a range of voices

26:38

that varied nuance and belegity black as a

26:40

country we reflect. Stories should

26:42

never be about us without

26:45

us. Listen now to Black

26:47

Stories, Black Truths from NPR, wherever you

26:49

get your podcast. One

26:51

morning you just walk in with a bag of

26:53

everyone's face from McDonald's, drop it on the counter

26:55

and say, uh, breakfast is on me. Oh,

26:58

that's the power of saving money on the

27:00

McDonald's app. Hope you can handle all that. Melinda,

27:08

you know, it's a combo. So, you know, you

27:10

can ask things back. Like, you feel very tense

27:13

to me. It's

27:16

been a tense three months. Like I'm just trying

27:18

to stay in my right mind. Honestly, like I'm

27:20

not even my usual self. Like I really feel

27:22

like the last three months changed me forever. Like I'm

27:24

never going to do the same. No, I don't, I really

27:26

don't know. Like sometimes I'm just like, what's

27:29

this world that I live in? Like, do I even

27:31

want to be in this world? I don't know. Seriously.

27:33

It's like, I've been feeling that way. And I know that,

27:36

I mean, you've been watching that. I sometimes I'm like,

27:38

what are these people talking about? Bro.

27:41

Like I'm so confused by a simple

27:43

conversation on like, do you believe these children should

27:45

be able to live or do you not believe

27:48

that? Like I'm just trying to understand what's happening

27:50

here. Like

27:52

I think the concept of like being a freedom

27:54

fighter for so many of us was something we

27:57

studied, right? Like it was like, I feel like

27:59

I. in my academics, I

28:01

have an understanding of what it is of

28:03

different versions of being a freedom fighter, whether

28:05

that's Nat Turner, you know, whether that's Hamas,

28:08

whether that's James

28:10

Baldwin. I mean, like, it's just like there's just

28:12

a number of ways that people have decided like,

28:15

well, this is how we're gonna fight for what

28:17

we think we deserve, right, and what

28:19

we feel we deserve. And it feels

28:22

like I am watching everything

28:25

that I've studied, like

28:27

happen in real time, in

28:30

4K, and like, it

28:32

feels like I'm in one of those Disney movies where like the

28:34

character that played the video game, like I'm in Tron, like I

28:36

feel like we're in Tron, like we were in the video, and

28:38

like now we're there. And I feel like it must be even

28:41

more surreal for you as a Palestinian who

28:43

has been in Palestine and seen these places

28:45

before they are now what they are, even

28:48

though like it was never great. Yeah, of course,

28:50

but you know, there was life, now there's death

28:53

everywhere, you know what I mean? Literal

28:55

death everywhere. You know,

28:57

Amanda, it's so crazy, because like you said,

28:59

everything for me is so surreal, because I'm

29:01

just like you, I'm a student of history.

29:04

And I've watched this all over the world happen

29:06

over the course of centuries and decades, and it's

29:09

like, you look at who people were rooting

29:11

for, where, and then all of a sudden

29:13

it's happening right now in your, you know, right here. And

29:15

one of the things I've been so confused about in

29:18

this world is like, okay, explain to

29:20

me what you were doing before these attacks happened.

29:22

Like so, because you want the Palestinians to live

29:24

now, and you want them to be free, and

29:26

this is not the way, this is

29:28

what the internet's saying. These people have

29:30

been under 75 years of occupation. These

29:33

are people that have been displaced, dispossessed from

29:35

their homes. These are people that live under

29:37

the boot of a brutal military

29:40

occupation. I'm talking about people who can't

29:42

go from village to village. People who

29:44

live in the West Bank need

29:46

a travel permit to go 15 minutes

29:48

to pray in Jerusalem. The

29:51

people of Gaza, who people will tell

29:53

you, oh, they withdrew from Gaza. Oh,

29:55

they tell you all this stuff because

29:57

they think that people are not intelligent

29:59

enough. get the details. So you

30:01

withdrew troops from Gaza, but then

30:03

you control their airspace, you control

30:05

their borders, you control their seat. They

30:08

don't have an airport. They can't

30:10

determine their own life anymore. Why

30:13

don't they have an airport? Because why would you give

30:15

people an airport to be able to... They bombed

30:18

it. Well, that part, I mean, listen, they had

30:20

one. Well, they had an airport, well, they bombed

30:22

the airport. But also, even if they didn't bomb

30:24

the airport, no one would be able to go

30:26

anywhere. Right? That's the thing.

30:28

The point here is that you even need,

30:31

let's say, for example, a young person from

30:33

Gaza applies for a Fulbright scholarship, for example,

30:35

right? And they get the Fulbright scholarship. The

30:38

Fulbright institution will grant you a scholarship, but the

30:40

state of Israel would have to grant you a

30:43

travel permit to leave Gaza to go and fulfill

30:45

your Fulbright scholarship. So even if they had an

30:47

airport, which of course, when you said bombing, I

30:49

was like, oh yeah, of course, that's exactly what

30:51

I mean. I was like, I thought you had

30:54

a different story going on there. But I was

30:56

like, bomb, that's what they do. That's the normal

30:58

thing. But I'm so like, maybe there's some other

31:00

thing that I don't know about. But even

31:03

if they had one, they wouldn't be able to use

31:05

it in that same way. I mean, the restrictions on

31:07

everything about your life. Imagine someone

31:10

literally having, choking you on

31:12

every aspiration that you have. And so what I

31:14

want to understand and what I don't understand from

31:16

the people out there who everyone apparently is an

31:18

expert on this issue, I'm looking at my people

31:20

and I'm thinking to myself, what did you want

31:22

them to do? You want them to stay with

31:24

another 100 years, another 200 years,

31:26

500 more years on the siege, on the

31:28

occupation. But that's what they're not saying out

31:30

loud is that they don't

31:32

see them as people deserving of freedom. Oh,

31:34

absolutely. That's what I'm saying. My thing is

31:36

like, one part of people wants

31:39

to be like, of course the children shouldn't be getting

31:41

killed. They'll say that. But I'm like, okay, so what

31:43

are you doing? What are you doing? What are you

31:45

doing for those children right now? And it's just this

31:47

place of like, I remember this one video that I

31:49

love watching, which is a video of Nelson Mandela when

31:51

he came to the United States and he was sitting

31:54

in this big audience and people came out from everywhere

31:56

to watch Nelson Mandela. And a guy got up to

31:58

try to challenge Nelson Mandela and he said, and he started

32:00

bringing up Yasser Arafat and Gaddafi and

32:02

he talked about Castro, whatever. And

32:05

Nelson Mandela was so soft-spoken, so matter

32:07

of fact, you have to really

32:09

stop in it. It had to be a pin drop

32:11

in order for you to hear what he was saying.

32:13

He was like, look, your enemies don't gotta be my

32:15

enemies. And the way that

32:17

he responded, this larger concept of who gets

32:19

to decide who's the enemy, who's bad, and

32:22

who's good, and who's the freedom fighter, and

32:24

who's not the freedom fighter, that

32:26

is all perspective and the fact that

32:28

people want us to follow one perspective,

32:30

we're only allowed to be in this one

32:33

line. And anyone that goes out of the

32:35

line to the right or to the left

32:37

somehow is either a fascist or you support

32:39

terrorism or whatever it is. Communist, communist. I

32:41

mean, it's all the things, they come up

32:43

with all kinds of things. And I'm like,

32:45

look, we're talking about human beings. That's it.

32:47

And so the last three months, just watching

32:49

the lack of regard of humanity and

32:52

also recognizing that this has happened

32:54

many times in history. I'm not

32:56

claiming that this horror that's happening

32:58

to Palestinians has never happened to any other people before.

33:00

In fact, it's happening to some people at the same

33:03

time that it's happening to Palestinians. But now you're watching

33:05

it in real, no one has

33:07

ever watched a live stream

33:09

of Rwanda, of the

33:12

Holocaust, of Cambodia, of Bosnia. There's

33:14

been many genocides. And to see

33:16

this soul right in your face, and

33:18

you still can't say it's wrong,

33:20

you still can't say nothing justifies

33:22

this. And then baby cries at

33:24

night. And man, I wake up in the night

33:26

hearing babies crying. And I'm just like, we

33:29

will answer for that. We will answer

33:31

for that. I don't think

33:33

people really realize that even if we're

33:35

here in America and we are pro-Pao

33:37

sign and we are against this, the

33:39

government, et cetera, we are

33:41

still gonna answer

33:44

for that. Like, we're here. And

33:47

I think it's like, I

33:49

find myself trying to wrap

33:51

my head these days around, what is

33:53

the true value of fighting for freedom

33:55

in this time? And

33:57

not letting the people who

33:59

are... so terrible, like undermine that

34:01

there is value in fighting for

34:03

that. Like I think sometimes it

34:06

can just become very disenchanting, very

34:08

demoralizing in just watching people be

34:10

terrible people. And the internet also

34:12

reminds you that like people are

34:14

very willing to be terrible, just

34:16

like throughout their day. Like they wake up

34:19

being horrible. They stretch and they work out

34:21

their fingers and they're like, all right, how

34:23

can I be the most evil person and

34:25

that person might be the lady that is

34:28

like giving you your change

34:30

at the grocery store. Right? But

34:32

then on the flip side, I had a

34:34

lady at the grocery store who gave me

34:36

like, she was like, okay, this is your

34:38

groceries. And then she's like, I

34:40

want you to know, I follow you on Instagram. I

34:42

love those moments. And she was like, and I did

34:44

not know I was one of the people who did

34:47

not know. Free

34:49

Palestine, free Palestine, she like held my hands.

34:51

Then I started crying, like

34:53

in the line. I was

34:55

like, she's holding my hand. She's holding

34:58

my hand and she's like, do

35:00

you have a rewards account? And

35:03

you're like, right. Yes, I

35:05

do. Yes, I do. Got

35:08

that rewards account. She's like, you saved $5. The

35:10

internet is such a terrible place, but you know

35:12

what I tell people, especially in this time, because

35:14

everyone's like, yo, they're still a genocide. It's already

35:17

three months. We're, you know, Montez Aziza, who's one

35:19

of the journalists on the ground who people knew

35:21

before this October 7th, he was doing. So you

35:23

know that in American you heard Motaz.

35:25

Yeah. Motaz. But in Arabic, it is more

35:28

says what there is. There's a, and which

35:30

is a letter we do not have in

35:32

the English language, but what's the letter and

35:34

it's called the and so you on the back of your

35:37

throat. Well, we don't have that.

35:39

So y'all are calling my boy Motaz.

35:41

Absolutely. But he wrote something the other

35:43

day on his stories that shook me

35:45

like to my core. And he basically

35:47

said, you are all you

35:49

know, I'm just waiting for the day I'm

35:51

going to die. And guess what happens when I die? You're

35:53

going to do nothing about it. And he's probably

35:56

right. And so that really kind of pushed me in the situation where I was

35:58

like, I'm going to do nothing about it. And he's probably right. Like the

36:00

thing that we are doing, Amanda, when I

36:03

tell people how hopeless and helpless people feel

36:05

is like, look, we're just maintaining the little

36:07

of humanity that is left. So the people

36:09

who keep saying this is wrong, this is

36:11

wrong, this is unacceptable, this is not normal,

36:13

believe it or not, you're doing a really

36:15

hard job. Because everybody else who's not out

36:17

there saying this is wrong, this is unacceptable

36:20

is basically people who

36:22

are literally trying to

36:24

convince us this is just how it's going to be and

36:27

this is just how it is. And so for me,

36:29

when I wake up every morning, reminding people that we are

36:31

standing witnessing something and we have to speak up against

36:33

them. I'm going to tell you, we have this actually, it's

36:35

a very Islamic concept. And

36:37

we're taught that if

36:39

you see an injustice, you have to

36:41

try to change it with your hands. If

36:44

you can't change it with your hands, then you have to try

36:46

to change it with your tongue. And if

36:48

you can't change it with your tongue, the weakest form

36:50

of faith is at least to hate it with your

36:52

heart. And so I tell

36:54

people all the time, I could at least

36:56

be in the middle and I could at

36:58

least speak up against that injustice using my

37:01

tongue. And so I hope people realize that

37:03

every time you are saying, this

37:05

is unjust, this is wrong, that

37:07

you are literally protecting the very little of humanity

37:09

that's left. And I'm telling you, we got to

37:12

give something to the next generations that come. And

37:14

if none of us are saying anything right now, people are going to

37:16

look back and be like, who are the people speaking up? When

37:19

the children of Gaza were getting massacred, when

37:21

the women and men of Gaza were getting

37:24

massacred, I worked very hard.

37:27

We are going to be like, at least we were

37:29

saying what needed to be said. And so I say

37:31

that that is, of course, we feel like it's a

37:34

bare minimum. It feels so infinitesimal. I

37:36

know. But it's so important because we

37:38

are also shifting. We have

37:40

never seen people talk, speak of Palestine in the way

37:42

that they are right now. This is sad. And

37:45

now mind you, our governments are not listening to us, but

37:48

at least the narrative, the narrative is

37:50

on the side of the Palestinian people. And it's very clear

37:52

to me in every nation in the spirit. because

38:00

the Black existence, particularly in America, is

38:02

its own unique space. And even as we

38:04

are watching that erasure and

38:06

the legislative effort to undermine the

38:09

necessity to be literally

38:11

intentional with making spaces

38:15

for Black people in a country that was very

38:17

intentional and continues to be intentional in

38:19

keeping Black people out of spaces of equity,

38:22

we know that Black media has to be

38:24

on top of that. We know that Black

38:26

media has to be able to speak to

38:29

our unique existence. So when it comes

38:31

to the next generation of influential Black voices, I'm

38:33

really happy to see that they can be found

38:35

on NPR's new collection, Black Stories, Black Truth. Black

38:38

Stories, Black Truth is a celebration

38:40

of Blackness from NPR. Each of

38:42

NPR's Black voices are as distinct,

38:44

varied, and nuanced as the Black

38:46

experience itself. In Black Stories,

38:48

Black Truth's collection, you'll hear stories of

38:50

joy, resilience, empowerment, and creating world-shifting

38:52

things out of struggle. Every

38:55

episode is a living account about what it

38:57

means to be Black today, told from a

38:59

unique Black perspective. From Bobby Schmurda

39:01

to The Wire, Michelle Obama to

39:03

reparations, there's no limit to the

39:05

range of Black Stories, Black Truth.

39:08

Black perspectives haven't always been centered in

39:10

the telling of America story, but now

39:13

they are the story. In

39:15

NPR's Black Stories, Black Truth, you'll find a

39:17

collection of some of NPR's best podcast episodes

39:19

celebrating the Black experience. So

39:22

hear a feed of episodes from across

39:24

NPR's podcast that center Black voices. It's

39:27

NPR Noire. Turn on

39:29

NPR today and hear a range of voices that's

39:31

varied, nuanced, and black as a

39:33

country we reflect. Stories should

39:35

never be about us without

39:38

us. Listen now to Black

39:40

Stories, Black Truths from NPR, wherever

39:42

you get your podcasts. One

39:44

morning, you just walk in with a bag

39:46

of everyone's faves from McDonald's. Drop it on

39:48

the counter and say, "'Bricks is on me.'"

39:50

Boom! That's the power of saving

39:53

money on the McDonald's app. I hope you can

39:55

handle all that. Save money on the app. The

40:01

Islamic concept that you speak of is

40:03

so universal. Absolutely.

40:06

I think a lot of people

40:08

even don't understand enough about Islam

40:11

to really be a part of the conversation,

40:14

even though they're inserting Islam into the conversation all the time.

40:16

Right now, I feel a lot of people being like, this

40:18

is about Islam. I'm like, you don't know anything about Islam.

40:21

You probably don't know anything about Judaism either. Nope. So

40:24

I don't even know why you're even involving

40:26

that because regardless of religion, this is

40:29

just a very clear

40:31

situation of a power overpowering

40:34

the powerless. That's just...

40:36

Absolutely. And actually understanding Islam a

40:38

little bit does help

40:41

you understand the Palestinians of Gaza. Now

40:44

remember, there are Christians also who live in Gaza, so let's

40:46

be clear about that. But the overwhelming

40:48

majority of Palestinians in Gaza are Muslims. And

40:50

so a lot of times people will say,

40:52

I don't understand. Look at these mothers. They

40:54

just lost all their children and they're thanking

40:56

God. How's that possible? How do

40:58

you thank God after you just lost your children? What's

41:02

the phrase? You know, Allah... It's

41:05

to God we belong and to God we return. And

41:08

that's what you hear oftentimes in Arabic being

41:10

said by a lot of these

41:12

mothers and fathers and people who are losing

41:14

their loved ones. And so when you hear

41:16

this to God, we belong to God, we

41:18

return. And also you hear things like Alhamdulillah,

41:20

which means thank God. And people are looking

41:22

at me like, what do you be thanking

41:24

God? And I said, because if

41:27

these people didn't have faith, how

41:29

would we get through it? There's no way they

41:31

were going to get through this. I mean, the

41:33

beautiful concepts of mothers believing to get them through

41:35

this, that their children are waiting for them at

41:37

the gates of heaven, that they're going to open

41:39

the doors of heaven for their parents. Like this

41:41

is what is getting these mothers through the agony

41:43

of losing four or five of her children. Like

41:45

when Wa'il D'Hudu, who is the Al Jazeera reporter,

41:47

is reporting, and then somebody comes to tell him,

41:50

hey, by the way, your wife,

41:52

your children, your grandchild, just all

41:54

got massacred and the man stands

41:56

up and is doing the prayer

41:58

over his loved ones. How

42:00

does that even work for you? That's

42:02

part of faith. It's believing that there is a world

42:05

beyond this one. So that's what I tell people is

42:07

that Zazza is a place where you could actually learn

42:10

a little bit about Muslims and

42:12

Islam. The way in which you see those orphan

42:14

children, they just lost their parents, their grandparents. And

42:16

then all of a sudden some strange guy who

42:18

may be a reporter, he may be a nurse, he

42:20

may be a volunteer is picking up the kids. And

42:23

they're just showing this unconditional love for a

42:25

child that is not theirs. But guess what?

42:27

They're theirs now. Because even a lot of

42:29

the children that you see, Amanda, these are

42:31

children who were orphans before. Some

42:33

of these men that you see that are like 20

42:36

years old now, they're orphans from 2014 or 2008

42:40

because there's been many wars in Zazza before. So I

42:42

always want people to look at the people of Zazza

42:44

in perspective. I hear some women that are in the

42:47

movement like, when can we adopt the children of Zazza?

42:49

Like when the war is over. And I

42:51

said, that's actually one place in the world where you can

42:53

adopt their children. They will not let those children leave because

42:55

they want those children to grow up close

42:57

to their culture, close to their family ties, close

42:59

to their bloodlines, close to the villages that they

43:02

are from and their land. And

43:04

they don't want these kids to lose that connection.

43:06

So they're gonna love them and they're gonna take

43:08

care of them. And they're gonna say they're their

43:10

children when they're in fact not their blood children,

43:12

but they're gonna treat them like they're the children.

43:14

That's the Muslim, that's Islam for me. That has

43:17

made me more proud to be a Muslim watching

43:19

the faithfulness, the patience, the resilience, the perseverance and

43:21

the getting up and putting your book bag on and

43:24

going to the next camp and the next camp and

43:26

the next camp and just believing that they're Gens, there

43:28

must be a bigger plan here. And

43:30

I hope that the bigger plan is that we

43:32

will not go back to status quo, that there will

43:34

be a listing of the siege on Gaza, that we

43:36

will end occupation and a tenure from there. Did

43:39

you grow up Muslim? Born and raised

43:41

Muslim and a Muslim family. I

43:43

mean, I'm not sure if you've answered this already, but like how

43:46

much of a role do you feel like your

43:48

Islamic faith has played in you being a

43:50

freedom fighter? And like this in general, how

43:52

much of a role do you feel like

43:55

having a connection to

43:57

a higher power like pulls that forward? it's

44:00

a very central part of my organizing, my getting

44:02

up, my putting myself in risk. Because I always

44:04

say to people, some people will say to me,

44:06

like, after they've seen some things I've experienced over

44:08

the last 20 years or 22 years

44:10

of organizing, they always say to me, you're

44:12

not afraid. What's something you've experienced that made

44:14

you afraid? Or that they thought should have made you afraid? So

44:16

many things. Death threats, people

44:19

sending mail to my house. These are things that

44:21

have also been public.

44:23

People who have tracked

44:26

my children, took pictures of my kids, and

44:28

sent a scrapbook to my mother. These are

44:30

people who have sent me explicit death

44:32

threats that have been investigated by law

44:34

enforcement. This is like I

44:36

went to a university in Southern Florida where

44:38

a guy literally had a whole conversation

44:41

on Facebook basically asking what color car I was

44:43

going to show up in, what entries was I

44:45

going to use. And when the law

44:47

enforcement went to basically follow up, this is a

44:49

man in Florida with ammunition in his car. If

44:51

he was in court, I don't know. I mean,

44:53

the cop said we don't think he's a threat,

44:55

but you clearly were asking all

44:57

these very specific questions about my whereabouts. And then

44:59

you also have ammunition in your car. Come on,

45:02

friends. There's a little something there. So I've experienced

45:04

a lot of this and people know this. It's

45:06

very public information on the internet, the threats that

45:08

I've received over a long period of time.

45:11

And I would still be outside. And I'll go

45:13

back outside and I'm still organizing and I'm still

45:15

in public spaces. And I say to people, the

45:17

reason people will say, how is that possible? How

45:20

are you not afraid? You could do a lot

45:22

of good work just by being

45:24

at home, inserting your voice, strategizing,

45:26

organizing, drafting, and whatnot. I say to people, I'm

45:28

not afraid because another Islamic concept that we believe

45:31

is that when you were born, when I'm born,

45:33

God already wrote down the day that I was going to die.

45:36

And so if there's already a day and the

45:38

day happens to be a day

45:41

where God forbid I get assassinated, I'm okay

45:44

with that because that was the day I was supposed to go and

45:46

I would be happy to go in an honorable

45:48

way. So like, I'm not afraid of death, I think is

45:50

the concept that I'm kind of alluding to.

45:52

And for being a Muslim, it's all about compassion.

45:54

Like I don't like to see people hurt. I

45:57

don't like to see people suffer. And what

45:59

taught is that if I'm given blessings, I

46:01

got to use every talent, every blessing that God

46:04

gave me to alleviate harm and suffering. And that's

46:06

what I do every day. And at least I

46:08

think to myself, what can I do today to

46:11

alleviate some of that harm and some of that suffering.

46:13

And sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm doing something major

46:16

and transformative. But even if

46:18

I'm doing something on a personal level, some

46:20

form of kindness, something that is even beyond

46:22

the organizing, just being a good person, that

46:25

is a struggle for people just to be

46:27

a good, decent person every day. That

46:30

is a struggle. Why is it

46:32

so hard in this country? It's hard. You know why? Because

46:35

Amanda, we come from cultures, whether it's black

46:37

culture or different types of immigrant

46:39

culture, where we're taught about this idea of a

46:41

village. We think about people who are around us.

46:43

We're helping grandma and auntie needs, my cousin down

46:46

south needs, or my cousin in the village

46:48

in Palestine needs. This country taught us individualism.

46:50

It taught me that you got health care,

46:52

you got a job. Don't worry about everybody

46:55

else. You got a house. Yeah, you got

46:57

a house. Yeah. Why isn't the homeless

47:00

man getting up and getting the job? Why do we

47:02

got to give our faculty? When I see the white

47:04

man homeless people, I'll be like, I don't

47:07

got it for you today, Bob. You

47:09

tell them. Oh God. So for me,

47:11

I reject individualism. And that's why I

47:14

have this weird relationship with

47:16

this country where my

47:18

parents came here because they wanted their

47:21

children not to be born under a

47:23

military occupation. So I don't take that for granted.

47:25

Right. And I don't take for granted that I am

47:27

in a country that I'm going to say what I

47:29

want and speak up and organize. And I don't take

47:32

that for granted at all. But that

47:34

doesn't mean because I'm not going to take it for

47:36

granted that I'm just going to say, okay, so I'm

47:38

riding smooth and I'm not going to

47:40

worry about anybody else that's around me. And so

47:42

that's the place where a lot of people have

47:45

critiqued me by saying, if you don't like it

47:47

here, go back to where you came from. Well,

47:49

first of all, I came from, I came from

47:51

Brooklyn just to work here. But if you mean,

47:54

if you mean go back to Palestine, which is where

47:56

my family's from, then you and me got to work

47:58

together, my friend, so we could free Palestine. and I

48:00

would gladly pack my bags and

48:02

go back to a free Palestine. But right now I can't

48:04

do that. So if you, maybe that's

48:06

the place that we're gonna find some common ground.

48:09

But also like what the hell is this concept

48:11

of like, if you don't like it, leave? Like

48:13

that's what I said to my ex, but like

48:15

just because he wasn't contributing anything to this house.

48:17

I mean, I'm paying taxes in this bi. If

48:20

I don't like it, I can demand it needs to

48:22

change. And the funniest part is when they say things

48:24

like this to me, they say, well, why don't you

48:27

go back to Saudi, first of all, I'm not from

48:29

Saudi Arabia, so even in that there's

48:31

ignorance. Like

48:33

you know, first of all, figure out where I'm really

48:35

from, from, from, and then tell me to go

48:37

back over there. I mean, for me, I'm just

48:39

like in this place where, which by the way,

48:41

just a representation of how dumb everything is also.

48:44

Like people can't even dis you properly, never. Like

48:46

people try and give me disses where they misspelled

48:48

my name and there's bad grammar. I'm like, yeah,

48:50

work on something for yourself. Yeah, I posted some

48:52

of the emails on the internet and people, it's

48:54

so funny, the grammar police come down. Like at

48:56

least if you go and hate the lady, just

48:59

your and your. Spell check. Your and your. Spell

49:01

check, yes, a little spell check, my friend. Show

49:03

me the respect that if you want to kill

49:05

me, you're at least not gonna kill me with bad grammar

49:07

first. That part, that part. But you know, I'm one

49:09

of those people, I don't even engage those people on the internet. And

49:12

that's the thing, the other thing that really pisses them off about me.

49:14

You all go outside and say whatever you all want to do,

49:17

because I'm not gonna be distracted by you. I'm gonna be right

49:19

here, do my work. I'm gonna say

49:21

what I gotta say. I'm gonna keep saying what I'm

49:23

saying. And the other thing that I believe is

49:26

only God can cancel me. So you could

49:28

cancel me all day, all night. Actually,

49:30

only God can cancel me. And guess what God,

49:33

and guess what God is not gonna do? Cancel

49:35

you. So that's what I say to people all

49:37

the time. So y'all go knock yourself out. Cause

49:40

I'm still here cause God has not

49:42

canceled me. And he's not gonna cancel

49:44

me or cancel Amanda Seeley. You

49:46

know, I mean, I feel like that's something that I

49:48

had to come to. It took a

49:50

while for me to like get over the hump of

49:52

not being afraid of being canceled, but just like the

49:55

time that we're in is different in a number of

49:58

different ways, but also because we've never been in. the

50:00

time we're in with Wi-Fi. That's

50:02

right. So that is

50:04

a whole other level of collective consciousness that has

50:06

positives and also negatives, right? There's just a lot

50:08

more people that are able to get to a

50:10

lot more people. And thank

50:12

God Dr. King didn't have that. I say that all the

50:15

time. No Twitter and Facebook because that poor man and his

50:17

people. It would have been a wrap. Oh, it would

50:19

have been a wrap. It would have been a

50:21

wrap. And, you know, there were also just

50:23

like things about these freedom fighters that were

50:25

not necessarily the best that would

50:27

have gotten exposed way faster. You know,

50:29

like imagine if we had heard about

50:32

like Dr. King with Instagram models, like

50:34

that would have been a terrible undermining

50:36

of the work. Oh yeah,

50:38

that's what the internet, unfortunately, that's the downside of the

50:40

internet when it comes to the movement and the ways

50:42

in which people have used the internet to try to

50:44

undermine our leaders, to divide

50:46

our leaders. Like if that was around, like you

50:49

said, in the days of the civil rights movement, which by

50:51

the way, there was some of that around like in the

50:53

paper, a little here, a little there. Oh,

50:55

I mean, they were actively coin cell pro. And then

50:57

later on, of course, many decades later, we know like

51:00

the FBI tactics that were used against Dr. King and

51:02

etc. But now we're watching that, like you said, in

51:04

real time, like nobody got to wait 50 years. We

51:06

know that what's happening right now. But one thing I

51:08

was going to say, Amanda, and I'm going to take

51:10

us in a little bit of a different direction because

51:13

I'm, I'm a little frustrated a little

51:15

bit. Oh, I'm sure I agree. Dr.

51:18

King, you know, we're going to commemorate

51:20

Dr. King as we do every year, whether

51:23

it's on his birthday or whether it's on

51:27

the anniversary of his commemoration of his

51:29

assassination. And you know what really kind of

51:31

been pissing me off lately, because Dr. King

51:33

has been invoked a few times, even in

51:36

this larger conversation in the last three months.

51:38

But I feel like people

51:40

forget, and I hope people don't

51:42

forget about me, like when I'm dead, y'all

51:44

better pick up where I left off and

51:46

where Dr. King left off. He was not

51:48

fucking with y'all. He

51:51

was literally like anti-military

51:53

industrial conflict. He says, stop the

51:55

war, stop killing the people, stop

51:58

using our taxpayers. Black

52:00

people are money. I mean and then when

52:02

people say oh, you know, we are like

52:04

descendants of the civil rights movement I'm like

52:07

my friends if you picked up the baton

52:10

Where it was left off. It was

52:12

literally dr. King about to lead an

52:14

anti-war movement in America That's literally where

52:16

he when he was assassinated. That was the

52:18

spot the dr. King was in

52:20

in that moment I mean, this is the spot where he

52:23

was the most Attacked this

52:25

is where the people left him and they said

52:27

oh you went a little too far for us my yeah

52:29

Yeah, walked away with their money. There were some friends of

52:31

his that were like, yeah We can't mess with you on

52:34

this one this one now You're just doing too much and

52:37

there's a documentary called King in

52:39

the wilderness Which I highly

52:41

recommend that people watch because a lot of

52:43

people think they're so romanticizing of the movement

52:45

of the civil rights But dr. King was

52:47

depression Anxiety this poor

52:49

man was suffering those last 18 months

52:51

of his life And a lot

52:54

of it was due to him getting even

52:56

more rooted in his principles and values and

52:58

articulating it in a way that Reminded

53:01

him that as a black man He wasn't just

53:03

a black man in America that he was part

53:05

of this global community that he was connecting the

53:07

dots across the world And people didn't

53:09

want that to happen and it's the same thing now People

53:11

are upset when black people try to

53:14

connect their plight anywhere near the Palestinians

53:16

or any other oppressed people around the world They

53:18

want to contain everything to this

53:21

idea that this is about domestic issues Leave

53:23

all that over there because once people start

53:25

making the connections, that's when the power gets

53:27

filled. That's when you start challenging The

53:30

status quo and now the status quo

53:32

is like we're gonna pull out every stock Divided

53:34

we have to divide and conquer these people which is what

53:37

they're doing right now You

53:42

know black media is really it's on

53:44

unique space because the black existence particularly

53:46

in America is it's on unique space

53:48

and even as we are watching that

53:50

erasure and the legislative effort to undermine

53:53

the necessity to be literally

53:57

intentional with making spaces for black

53:59

people the country that was very intentional

54:01

and continues to be intentional in keeping

54:03

Black people out of spaces of equity.

54:06

We know that Black media has to be

54:08

on top of that. We know that Black

54:11

media has to be able to speak to

54:13

our unique existence. So when it comes

54:15

to the next generation of influential Black voices, I'm

54:17

really happy to see that they can be found

54:19

on NPR's new collection, Black Stories, Black Truths. Black

54:22

Stories, Black Truths is a celebration

54:24

of Blackness from NPR. Each of

54:26

NPR's Black voices are as distinct,

54:28

varied, and nuanced as the Black

54:30

experience itself. In Black Stories,

54:32

Black Truths collection, you'll hear stories

54:34

of joy, resilience, empowerment, and creating

54:36

world-shifting things out of struggle. Every

54:39

episode is a living account about what it

54:41

means to be Black today, told from a

54:43

unique Black perspective. From Bobby Shmurda

54:45

to The Wire, Michelle Obama to

54:47

Reparations, there's no limit to the

54:49

range of Black stories, Black Truths.

54:52

Black perspectives haven't always been centered in

54:54

the telling of America story, but now

54:57

they are the story. In

54:59

NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, you'll find a

55:01

collection of some of NPR's best podcast episodes

55:03

celebrating the Black experience. So

55:06

hear a feed of episodes from across

55:08

NPR's podcast that center Black voices. It's

55:11

NPR Noire. Turn

55:13

on NPR today and hear a range of

55:15

voices that's varied, nuanced and bliggy Black as

55:17

a country we reflect. Stories

55:19

should never be about us without

55:22

us. Listen now to Black

55:24

Stories, Black Truths from NPR. Wherever you

55:26

get your podcasts. One

55:28

morning, you just walk in with a bag of

55:30

Everyone's Faves from McDonald's, drop it on the counter

55:33

and say, uh, breakfast is on me. Oh,

55:36

that's the power of saving money on the McDonald's

55:38

app. Hope you can handle all that. Save money

55:40

with the app. I

55:45

mean, I think there's also just internally,

55:48

like within our own groups, getting

55:50

over our own shit, too, right? Like I've seen

55:52

Black people who I've had to say, stop

55:55

saying shit. Like I'm only focusing on people that

55:57

look like me. I'm only focusing on my thing.

55:59

Right. I've seen like people

56:01

from the MENA, Middle

56:04

Eastern North African community say

56:06

racist things about black people. And I'm just

56:08

like, cut it. I was on

56:10

somebody Khaled, who's

56:13

the Arabic Sean King? Khaled Beydoun.

56:15

There we go. Khaled Beydoun.

56:17

I was on his page for 2.2 seconds

56:20

and they started coming at me. And

56:23

I said, oh no, baby, I can't do

56:25

that. I got the go. And then he

56:27

came in like, yeah, and was like, I

56:29

don't agree with your statement because people

56:32

were upset about, they

56:34

were saying, I can't believe, I

56:36

forgot who it was about, but they were saying basically

56:38

like, I can't believe black people aren't showing up for

56:40

Palestinians. I can't believe this black person isn't showing up

56:42

for Palestinians. And I was like, this

56:45

is not exactly how it works. That's not how

56:47

it works. And I was like, I just think

56:49

that it's not my place as a black person

56:51

to tell Palestinians how they should show up for

56:53

Palestinians or for black people and vice versa. And

56:56

there were a lot of comments that I

56:58

felt like were being a bit too like,

57:00

you black people. Nope. And I

57:02

was like, listen, I've seen some of that myself. And

57:05

it's not right. So let's be on the

57:07

record here, my friend. This is not a transactional

57:09

situation. And it's also, and listen, I've

57:11

been doing racial justice work for a long time.

57:14

It's something that I've worked very hard within my

57:16

own community about. I don't believe in this idea

57:18

of transactional solidarity. Like for example, like with me,

57:20

you know, I went and I literally moved in

57:22

a global pandemic to Louisville, Kentucky,

57:25

right? Not because I was one day like, okay,

57:27

one day the people of Louisville are gonna come

57:29

outside for me. You know what I mean?

57:31

Right, right, right. If you're not showing up

57:34

for the right reasons and you're not showing

57:36

up because you see people are harmed and

57:38

they require your solidarity for everything, for their

57:40

own safety, for their own security, for their,

57:43

all the things, right? To protect rights, to not

57:45

set precedents, to make sure people know what we

57:47

saw is wrong and we never want this to

57:49

happen again. But if you're showing up because you're

57:51

like, okay, if I show up to the black

57:53

people, then tomorrow the black people are gonna show up for

57:55

me. That's natural when you

57:57

engage in a transformative type of solidarity.

58:00

You hear that, Juliane Margulies? You hear that? You

58:02

don't expect nothing back. Even when I went to

58:04

Ferguson, them young people in

58:06

Ferguson didn't know nothing about no Palestinians,

58:08

no Palestine, no nothing. And then

58:10

the young people in Gaza were on Twitter

58:12

and on social media, like they are, some

58:15

of them are no longer on Instagram because

58:17

there's no wifi. But before that, guess what?

58:19

They had wifi in Gaza and social media.

58:21

And they started telling the young black kids

58:23

in Gaza, like, listen, this is how you

58:25

protect yourself from tear gas, been there, done

58:27

that. And they started doing all of that.

58:29

The people of Gaza weren't like, one day,

58:31

them black people don't come outside for us.

58:34

There was Ferguson comfort. They said, wait a

58:36

minute, there are some young people experiencing something

58:38

we already have experienced and we know what

58:40

to do. We're gonna tell them that. And

58:42

then when I went to the streets of Ferguson, these young black kids

58:44

would look over at me and be like, where

58:47

are you from? And I would say, of course I'd say I'm

58:49

from Brooklyn because I thought that was cool to tell the kids

58:51

of Ferguson. And the kids would say to

58:53

me like, oh yeah, I never been to New York. We'd

58:55

have this conversation. I'm talking about like 15, 16, 17 year

58:57

old black kids in Ferguson. And

59:00

then that's the real question. Where are you from, from? Yeah, exactly.

59:03

And I would tell them, I was like, I'm Palestinian.

59:05

And I started telling them all this stuff. And the

59:07

kids would say, oh, you like them kids, like from

59:09

the internet. So they were connecting me to these kids

59:12

in the other part of the world. And I was

59:14

like, wait a minute, what? And then they were like,

59:16

this, and they would

59:18

show me stuff. And I'm like, yeah. And that

59:20

gave me goosebumps. Cause I'm like, wait a minute,

59:22

my people that are living under a siege are

59:25

showing more solidarity than my people over here. And that

59:27

made me proud in that moment. And so I always

59:29

tell people, people are gonna always look over to you

59:32

and be like, why are you here? Like when I

59:34

went to Kentucky, there weren't people that looked

59:36

a lot like me in Kentucky on the streets

59:38

of Kentucky, but I built relationships. I had this

59:40

young man who ended up getting shot and killed,

59:42

which devastated us until freedom. Cause he was one

59:44

of our mentees. He was

59:46

a kid they called Travis, Travis Nagdi.

59:48

And nobody even knew his last name. They

59:50

just knew him as Travis. But his name

59:52

actually wasn't Travis. His name was actually Hamza.

59:55

The reason why he got the name Travis was where he went out

59:57

of foster care a lot. And they ended up giving, they were like,

59:59

Hamza, what is? That was just gonna give you some like, you

1:00:01

know, got like people kind of name Although he was

1:00:04

an Egyptian kid who looked like a brown kid who had

1:00:06

a big afro He was like

1:00:08

the life of the party like he was a wonderful Young

1:00:11

person there and he was very connected to the black

1:00:13

community there Like he was almost like I'm Egyptian I'm

1:00:15

black like that was the people he was around those

1:00:17

were the kids He was with in foster care But

1:00:19

when he saw me we had

1:00:21

an instant connection because here I am an Arab

1:00:23

American woman. He's Arab American We got together. So

1:00:25

I always tell people all the time. It's like

1:00:27

you don't gotta show up Expecting

1:00:30

people to do something for you. Just show

1:00:32

up be kind be good to people and

1:00:34

then people will naturally learn your story Naturally

1:00:37

be connected to you in a transformative way And

1:00:39

then guess what when you're down and out when

1:00:41

your people are being harmed you best to believe

1:00:43

them people are gonna show up for You but

1:00:45

this whole like where are the Latinos? Where are

1:00:47

the black people like this is not gonna work

1:00:49

my friends and for my friends who are listening

1:00:52

to this show who are Muslims who of course

1:00:54

can also be black they could be Latino and

1:00:56

all kinds of you but the Particularly Arab Americans.

1:00:58

Mm-hmm who some people will say from the MENA

1:01:00

region Which is by the way for some

1:01:02

people is a little controversial Is

1:01:04

it because I feel I see it see this what

1:01:06

we gotta talk because because to some people they'll say

1:01:08

like even that whole the Whole concept of you've been

1:01:11

saying the Middle East we say it because it's so

1:01:13

often used in like the news and the way But

1:01:17

like Middle East to what you know, that's

1:01:19

what people say Middle East. Yeah, so for us

1:01:21

It's like North Africa makes sense believe it or

1:01:23

not Palestine You're not this is crazy. The Asians

1:01:25

love this when I say that I said listen,

1:01:27

I'm Asian people How would you be do Asian?

1:01:30

I said I'm all the way West Asian because

1:01:32

Palestine is on the Asian continent We're

1:01:34

just friends is Asian Okay,

1:01:37

why are we talking? Well, there's no such

1:01:39

thing as Europe So we're

1:01:41

West Asian so we'll see some confusing messaging

1:01:43

about that because We're trying

1:01:46

to get the United States government to count MENA

1:01:48

which stands for Middle East North Africa Mm-hmm, and

1:01:50

that's only because it's been a concept that's been

1:01:52

around for so long in the census Because

1:01:55

it comes as white right now, right even if and

1:01:57

they're very clear by the way if you

1:01:59

are from these countries of origin and Egypt is

1:02:01

one of them and I just came from Egypt.

1:02:03

In Egypt they have people as Black as Africans

1:02:06

and because your country, because you know of

1:02:08

course it's self-identifying, so if you want to

1:02:10

say you're African you can on the census,

1:02:12

but they specifically say Egypt, Morocco,

1:02:15

these North African countries would be considered white in

1:02:17

the US census, which is by the way what

1:02:19

I believe is why we

1:02:21

considered a majority white country because

1:02:23

they're still counting Middle

1:02:25

East North African people as

1:02:27

white and it makes no sense at all. And

1:02:30

there's another qualification that's also kind

1:02:32

of weird where it's like Hispanic,

1:02:35

non-Hispanic, non-Hispanic, yes like Spanish

1:02:37

speaking Hispanic, Spanish speaking non-Hispanic,

1:02:39

something like that. They're

1:02:42

very tricksy totally and then even in

1:02:44

Asian American Pacific Islander, okay so that's, I get

1:02:46

what we get what you're saying when you're saying

1:02:48

that, what about Pakistanis and

1:02:50

Afghanistanis, where do they fit in, are they also considered Asian

1:02:52

because they're part of the larger or do you mean

1:02:55

East Asians as in Japanese,

1:02:58

Chinese, Vietnamese, whatever. So the census

1:03:00

doesn't really capture the true diversity of the people

1:03:02

that we are from, all of us not just

1:03:04

Arab Americans, and so we've been having, it's been

1:03:06

25 years, so we were about to get a

1:03:08

category, it was about to go in under

1:03:11

the Obama administration, they actually tested it.

1:03:14

They tested Mina as a category in 2015 and

1:03:16

apparently did well and people responded to it and then

1:03:19

my, you know, our guy Donald Trump walked in and

1:03:21

he said yeah we're not doing all of that. So

1:03:23

it was not included in the 2020 census

1:03:25

which is what the goal was. So now we would

1:03:27

have to wait till 2030 to see

1:03:30

if we could get a category that at least

1:03:32

captures the Middle East North Africa region, even

1:03:35

though like I said there's a little bit of controversy about the

1:03:37

term, but I'm going along with it

1:03:39

because it's something that is not white. Touché,

1:03:42

yes. Like I feel like the terms

1:03:44

of things is also become

1:03:46

a very big topic of conversation. I

1:03:49

mean like even the concept of like

1:03:51

anti-Semitism, like there's a whole freedom fighter

1:03:53

movement around just like that term being

1:03:56

dismantled because it has

1:03:58

been co-opted to speak to only one. group

1:04:00

of people, even though by its

1:04:02

actual definition, it would

1:04:04

include Palestinians. I

1:04:06

mean, people all the time make this point

1:04:09

and they argue this idea that Palestinians are

1:04:11

Semitic people as well. But the problem that

1:04:13

we have here, especially with anti-Semitism as a

1:04:15

concept in the ways in which it's being

1:04:17

used in this moment in the context of

1:04:19

Palestine, Israel, it's like, look, we got real

1:04:21

anti-Semitism in fact. There's actual, yes. There are

1:04:23

white supremacists outside and we've seen them on

1:04:25

the streets of Charlottesville. There are people that

1:04:28

actually have deep hatred for Jewish

1:04:30

people. They are so explicit about it. Some

1:04:32

of them run for president of the United States

1:04:34

of America. But then that same term,

1:04:37

anti-Semitism, that should be applied to people

1:04:39

who have deeply rooted hatred for Jewish

1:04:42

people, who say things that are against

1:04:44

the religion of Judaism or people who

1:04:46

follow the religion of Judaism. And then

1:04:48

people who are pro-Palestinian, who are criticizing

1:04:51

a state, a nation state, will

1:04:54

get the same application. And so what

1:04:56

it does is it waters down real anti-Semitism. I

1:04:58

always say to people, it's not even a disservice

1:05:00

to us, it's a disservice to Jewish people. If

1:05:02

you think Linda Sarsour

1:05:05

is the biggest threat to Jewish people

1:05:07

in America, then that in fact

1:05:09

makes Jewish people less secure because then you're

1:05:11

distracted from the real anti-Semitism that could actually

1:05:13

harm you in this country. And guess what?

1:05:15

It ain't the pro-Palestinian movement. I just don't

1:05:17

even like the word. That's my point. I

1:05:20

don't even like the word because I think

1:05:22

that ultimately it's like, a lot

1:05:24

of us are coming to just question everything and the

1:05:26

etymologies of things, the analogies

1:05:29

of things, and the sources of things,

1:05:31

the Sarsours of things. And

1:05:33

you just start

1:05:35

to realize, okay, so

1:05:37

when we talk about racism, that's

1:05:39

one thing. We talk about white

1:05:41

supremacy, that's another thing. When

1:05:43

we talk about Islamophobia,

1:05:46

that ends up being somehow wrapped into

1:05:48

all Arabs. But not all Arab people

1:05:50

are Islam. But even the word Islamophobia

1:05:54

to some people is controversial. Because even for

1:05:56

me, I say it because it's something that's

1:05:58

so easily used. But Islamophobia means

1:06:01

the irrational fear of Muslims, but it

1:06:03

should be really anti-Muslim hatred. Yes,

1:06:06

absolutely. It should be anti-Muslim bigotry. So like you said,

1:06:08

I think that it's all context. It's all who gets

1:06:10

to define what the words are, who gets to say

1:06:12

what the word is, and who gets to use the

1:06:14

word. And I think for me,

1:06:16

it's like you got to base it on people's actions. I

1:06:19

don't think that right now in this moment,

1:06:22

going after 19-year-old college

1:06:24

students is the way you keep Jewish people safe

1:06:26

in America. That going after students

1:06:28

for justice in Palestine or Jewish voice

1:06:30

for peace chapters across the country,

1:06:32

particularly those on college campuses who

1:06:34

are organizing for freedom, for liberation, for

1:06:37

justice for Palestinians, is in

1:06:39

fact a way to address anti-Semitism, which is

1:06:41

where most of the resources are right now.

1:06:44

But they're not really trying to protect

1:06:46

folks from anti-Semitism. Oh, no, that's what I'm saying.

1:06:48

It's more about, no, but I was going to

1:06:51

say it's under the cover of, and it's to

1:06:53

silence this growing movement

1:06:55

that is unapologetic to say

1:06:57

we stand for the

1:06:59

freedom and liberation of the Palestinian people in

1:07:01

ways we've never seen before. And

1:07:04

when people are afraid of this growing movement,

1:07:06

the initial reaction is to do what? Silence

1:07:09

it, silence it, silence it.

1:07:11

So here we are targeting

1:07:13

faculty, targeting presidents of universities,

1:07:15

including elite private universities, targeting

1:07:18

students at Harvard, doxing students,

1:07:20

putting students' addresses on trucks

1:07:22

and driving them around communities.

1:07:24

How is making a young person's

1:07:27

life unsafe? Very good. Making

1:07:29

you safe. I don't understand that. And that has

1:07:31

happened to so many activists. You

1:07:33

post people's houses on the

1:07:35

internet. Explain to me how

1:07:37

that makes you safe. Explain

1:07:40

to me how doxing people. That's one thing. There's

1:07:42

got to be some decorum even when we disagree on things. And

1:07:44

that's the thing that unfortunately we've gotten to a place in this

1:07:47

country where there's no decorum. None. There's

1:07:49

no code. It's not a person's address. I don't

1:07:51

care. You could be like, I would

1:07:53

never post your address. You could be Tucker Carlson.

1:07:57

I'm not posting address. No. Because

1:07:59

people got children. It's not something that I'm not gonna

1:08:01

post you out just on the internet Well, what

1:08:03

we did post on the internet was

1:08:05

a video asking for your questions And

1:08:07

so we're gonna answer them over at

1:08:10

the Amanda verse So shout out to all of our

1:08:12

patreon subscribers the seal squad we gonna come to you

1:08:14

right now You

1:08:19

know black media is really its own

1:08:21

unique space because the black existence particularly

1:08:23

in America is its own unique space

1:08:25

and even as We are watching that

1:08:28

erasure and the legislative effort to undermine

1:08:30

the necessity to be literally

1:08:34

Intentional with making spaces for black people

1:08:36

in a country that was very intentional

1:08:38

and continues to be intentional in keeping

1:08:40

black people out Of spaces of equity.

1:08:43

We know that black media has to be

1:08:45

on top of that We know that black

1:08:48

media has to be able to speak to

1:08:50

our unique existence So when it comes

1:08:52

to the next generation of influential black voices I'm really

1:08:54

happy to see that they can be found on NPR's

1:08:56

new collection black stories black truths Black

1:08:59

story black truths is a celebration of blackness

1:09:01

from NPR Each of NPR's

1:09:03

black voices are as distinct varied

1:09:05

and nuanced as the black experience

1:09:07

itself in black stories Black

1:09:09

truths collection you'll hear stories of joy Resilience

1:09:12

empowerment and creating world-shifting things out

1:09:14

of struggle Every episode is a

1:09:17

living account about what it means to be black

1:09:19

today told from a unique black perspective From

1:09:21

Bobby Shmurda to the wire Michelle

1:09:23

Obama to reparations There's no limit

1:09:26

to the range of black stories

1:09:28

black truth Black perspectives

1:09:30

haven't always been centered in the telling

1:09:32

of America story But now they

1:09:34

are the story in NPR's black

1:09:36

stories like truths You'll find a collection of

1:09:38

some of NPR's best podcast episodes celebrating

1:09:41

the black experience So here a

1:09:43

feed of episodes from across NPR's

1:09:45

podcast that center black voices. It's

1:09:48

NPR New hour turn

1:09:50

on NPR today and hear a range of

1:09:52

voices as varied nuance and belegy black as

1:09:54

a country We reflect stories should

1:09:57

never be about us without

1:09:59

us Listen now to Black

1:10:01

Stories Black Truths from NPR wherever you

1:10:03

get your podcasts. One

1:10:05

morning you just walk in with a bag of

1:10:07

everyone's faves from McDonald's. Drop it on the counter

1:10:10

and say, uh, breakfast is on me. That's

1:10:13

the power of saving money on the McDonald's app.

1:10:15

Hope you can handle all that. Save money with

1:10:17

the app. So

1:10:28

before we go, this is a large

1:10:31

question time. But

1:10:35

for you, what does

1:10:37

freedom mean? Because,

1:10:39

you know, conceptually we talk about it, but

1:10:42

in practicality, what

1:10:44

does it mean? You

1:10:47

know, that is such a big question because

1:10:50

being able to try to imagine freedom during

1:10:52

a genocide for me has been impossible. I've

1:10:54

actually asked myself this question just within this

1:10:56

last three months. Like I'm watching my people

1:10:59

literally, Amanda, they're being slaughtered. Like they're massacring

1:11:01

these people every day. And before that I

1:11:03

would have been like, you know, freedom, whatever.

1:11:06

And I'm just looking out and trying to

1:11:08

like cut through the darkness of it all

1:11:10

to think about it. And one of the things I have

1:11:12

been thinking about is this concept of

1:11:15

joy. Joy for me is freedom. I

1:11:17

just want, I want to live in

1:11:19

a world where children have pure, like

1:11:21

uninterrupted joy. I just imagine

1:11:23

a world where children everywhere have everything

1:11:25

that they need. But I just watch

1:11:27

children playing like in this big field,

1:11:30

with no care in the world, being

1:11:32

able to know that every child

1:11:34

is going to meet every aspiration

1:11:37

and every dream that they have, because the world's going

1:11:39

to be set up that way. Because freedom is going

1:11:41

to allow us to do everything that we want, everything

1:11:43

that our heart desires. But it's hard. Like I'm in

1:11:45

this place where I'm just like, stop

1:11:47

killing my people. That's it. Like that,

1:11:49

like my goal. Yeah, my mind is

1:11:51

so into the immediate because I'm like,

1:11:53

I can't see past the bloodshed. I

1:11:56

can't see past the loss of life,

1:11:58

but also the loss of everything. I

1:12:00

mean people are losing their homes. They're losing,

1:12:02

you know material things that even are Sentimental

1:12:05

value have sentiment. These are many of the

1:12:07

people in Gaza were refugees

1:12:09

already so now refugees twice three times

1:12:11

four times and so I Hope

1:12:14

one day that I will see be in

1:12:16

a place where I myself could have the place

1:12:18

and the space to even imagine What

1:12:21

that kind of freedom is but for me right now

1:12:23

the thing that I hear is like laughter and and

1:12:26

joy and play of children Now

1:12:28

when you said earlier that there's this Thought

1:12:31

in Islam around fighting that it's like, okay If you see

1:12:33

something wrong like you fight first with your hands Then if

1:12:35

you can't do that you fight with your voice if you

1:12:37

can't do that at least fight in your heart for

1:12:40

you, what Do

1:12:43

you consider to be the effective way that you fight?

1:12:45

Oh? I'm for

1:12:47

me I fight I start with my hands all the

1:12:49

time and I try to do the hands and

1:12:51

the voice together and that just means whatever I

1:12:53

can do tangibly Organize mobilized maybe

1:12:56

it's humanitarian relief and being able

1:12:58

to do something as simple as

1:13:00

alleviate someone's harm and Suffering

1:13:02

and the voice part is just being

1:13:04

unapologetic and being able to remind people

1:13:06

that While I don't claim

1:13:09

to speak for all Palestinians while I don't

1:13:11

claim to speak for almost because none of us can

1:13:13

I Know that my voice comes

1:13:15

with number one power, but also with a

1:13:17

great responsibility But I'm

1:13:19

also I owe it to my people, you

1:13:21

know I always say Amanda that my parents

1:13:23

did not leave everything that they loved in

1:13:25

Palestine under a military occupation To

1:13:28

sacrifice their lives so that I can be born

1:13:30

in a country like the United States of America

1:13:32

I'm going to make my parents journey worth it

1:13:35

I am going to make every sacrifice my parents

1:13:37

made Worth it and for

1:13:40

me right now to know that my

1:13:42

family my grandparents my great-grandparents Know

1:13:44

that here comes a Palestinian young woman

1:13:47

who was born and raised in the United States

1:13:49

who's outside Fighting for

1:13:51

her people that's every one of our ancestors wildest

1:13:53

dreams because I could have laid low I

1:13:56

could have been like I'm American.

1:13:58

It's really complicated There are people who will

1:14:01

separate themselves from things impacting their

1:14:03

own people. And for me to make my parents,

1:14:05

that part, for me, I'm gonna make my parents'

1:14:07

journey to America worth it. And so for me, I'm gonna use my voice.

1:14:12

I'm also gonna use my hands because I'm an

1:14:14

outside. I like to be outside, but I'm gonna use my

1:14:16

voice too. And I'm gonna also by nature hate it

1:14:18

in my heart. So that weakest

1:14:20

form of faith is always there. It's

1:14:22

always there. All

1:14:25

right, well, I'm just curious. What made your

1:14:27

parents name you Linda? What made your parents

1:14:29

name you Linda? That's such a very random-

1:14:32

Look it up. There is actually

1:14:34

a song about a guy who

1:14:36

went to Europe back in

1:14:38

like the late 70s and met a girl. And

1:14:41

her name was Linda. And he

1:14:43

came back and he made a song.

1:14:45

And the song was like, Linda, Linda,

1:14:47

yeah, Linda. Anna,

1:14:50

bahebik, yeah, Linda. Isali,

1:14:53

albik. Hui, ulik. Anna, bahebik,

1:14:55

yeah, Linda. So my mom

1:14:57

named me after that song

1:15:00

and also named me at the same time after

1:15:03

a woman who was Puerto Rican, who was our

1:15:05

neighbor, who was really helpful to my mom because English

1:15:07

wasn't her first language and happens that her name was

1:15:09

Linda. My mom liked the song, put it

1:15:12

together. It was meant to be. And that's why my name

1:15:14

is Linda. Now that, you

1:15:16

know, I- Linda also means like

1:15:18

pretty- That's what I heard. That's

1:15:20

what they say. Inespañol, si, si,

1:15:22

si, si, si. Look at that, I'm

1:15:25

glad I asked. We also got a song.

1:15:29

See, that's what you get here at Small

1:15:31

Doses. You get a whole other side of

1:15:33

Linda that we didn't even hear before. Linda

1:15:35

Sarsour, Linda Singer, all right? Well,

1:15:37

where can people follow you and

1:15:39

continue to be supportive of your

1:15:41

freedom fighting? untilfreedom.com,

1:15:44

that's the outside organization. That's where

1:15:46

we're unapologetic about fighting for folks

1:15:49

that need our resources and

1:15:51

our voices. So please support untilfreedom.com. That's also

1:15:53

supporting people like Tamika Mallory and others. I

1:15:56

also run an organization called M, the letter

1:15:58

M, power change. that organization

1:16:01

really is organizing Muslim

1:16:03

Americans and Muslims across the country to

1:16:05

be more civically engaged, active, we train. So

1:16:07

we trying to keep our people outside too.

1:16:10

And you know, just follow me on the internet. And

1:16:12

I use my real name everywhere. So just wherever you

1:16:14

find me, that's where I'm at. Sains, the stuff that

1:16:16

needs to be said. There you

1:16:18

have it, y'all.