0:03

Small, don't say, don't help from

0:05

the hit. Small, don't say, we're

0:07

talking that shit. Small, don't say,

0:09

keep it real. Small, don't say,

0:12

with me and them seals. So

0:14

funky. Y'all,

0:17

we are about to get into side effects of

0:19

labor unions with Chris Smalls, the creator and founder

0:21

of the Amazon Labor Union. Now, I just need

0:24

to tell y'all, first, this had to be in

0:26

two parts because the brother is dropping so much

0:28

knowledge in such a way that I was like,

0:30

this is a gift for the people. That being

0:33

said, I need you to pause right

0:35

now and get a notebook. Or make

0:38

sure that you can listen and write in your

0:40

notes app because this is an

0:42

actual seminar on something that all

0:44

of us should know about that

0:46

they done kept quiet. All

0:49

right? Don't say I ain't tell

0:51

you. Let's get into it. Side effects of labor unions with

0:53

Chris Smalls. McDonald's

0:55

is not new to chicken. So

0:58

maybe stop questioning their chicken

1:00

McDonald's is not new to chicken.

1:03

So maybe stop questioning their chicken

1:05

cred and get your hands on

1:07

the McChrissy. Juicy fried chicken, buttery

1:10

bun, unmatched pickle to chicken ratio.

1:13

Yeah, they know what they're doing. In fact,

1:15

we can honestly say they're not new

1:17

to chicken, they're true to chicken. The

1:20

McChrissy. Only

1:22

at McDonald's. Bada, bah,

1:25

bah, bah. People.

1:32

People, people, people. The people.

1:35

This episode of Small Doses is for us. All

1:40

right? This has been quite some

1:42

time in the making. We've had some

1:44

hiccups and some time conflicts, but we

1:46

did it because we stayed the course.

1:49

And that's the only way change happens.

1:51

And this brother knows that. Y'all, welcome

1:53

to Small Doses podcast, Chris Smalls. Yay.

1:58

Thank you for having me. The. The man

2:00

with the plan behind the

2:03

Amazon Labor union. The first

2:05

Amazon Labor union. I feel

2:07

like. The.

2:09

First. Question. I have

2:11

for you is okay. So let me

2:14

to say this. I feel like this

2:16

conversation is gonna have to be a

2:18

lotta like you say. It's as if

2:20

you probably already said a million times,

2:22

but because I think a lot of

2:24

people don't really know their power. Or.

2:27

Know like the true purpose of unions

2:29

right? Like they may have heard like

2:31

of unions like the Auto Workers Union

2:33

or Sag or just like the hate

2:36

that Starbucks union began but I feel

2:38

like a lot of people don't also

2:40

understand like the reality of what it

2:42

means to be a part of like

2:44

the labor force. In. America? you know,

2:47

Sam? Like I think that that is kind

2:49

of like. Very kept

2:51

under wraps like that. There's usually

2:53

a labour was easy on me

2:55

so as is know that about

2:57

asking you like remedial questions like

2:59

it is absolutely not said like

3:01

sad sad and make you like

3:04

nice simple as because I want

3:06

you to keep it simple for

3:08

us for the people who need

3:10

to get more informed about really

3:12

like what it means to be

3:14

informed labor force. So tell

3:17

me this when you're sorry Working

3:19

at Amazon. What?

3:21

Do you feel like was the first thing you

3:23

notice that said see you all we all need

3:26

some changes up a here. To. Well.

3:29

Oh did I. Say requested that you

3:31

haven't been asked. For you might have

3:34

because. It's

3:36

not going to have been husband was you

3:38

miss a tricky question because people big and

3:40

I like this organizer. Prior. To.

3:43

Our victory. Last. Year like know

3:45

I wasn't I wasn't working on the

3:47

union and as humid you know was

3:49

be was educated on my rights as

3:51

a worker rights flow from Odd. Entirety

3:54

of my adult life. working

3:57

since sixty years old beating

3:59

succeed is on my first job at

4:01

Target. I didn't know what my

4:03

rights were. I was fired from Target. So-

4:06

Wait, why were you fired from Target?

4:08

Well, actually, man, that's, I

4:11

was fired from Target, not my fault, because

4:13

I actually had a lawsuit against them and I

4:16

won. I was a minor, now you're

4:18

going back in my rabbit hole. I was a

4:20

minor working at Target, my first

4:22

job, and I was actually hit by

4:24

a car in the parking lot. What?

4:27

It was a hit and run. A hit

4:29

and run, this white couple that was

4:31

driving a nice white Mercedes Benz I'll

4:33

never forget. I got hit by the

4:35

car and they drove,

4:37

they got out the car and they

4:40

looked at me on the ground and

4:42

drove off, right? Yeah,

4:45

I'm serious, this is a true story. So they drove

4:47

off, a Mexican couple

4:49

got the license plate and

4:52

provided it to the police. They

4:54

were arrested over the weekend. My

4:56

mom and I pursue legal

4:58

actions and by my senior year of

5:00

high school, I won a judgment against

5:02

Target and against the couple

5:05

who hit me. So legally, they

5:07

had to let me go because

5:09

I had an open lawsuit against them, which still don't

5:11

make any sense to me. I see. By

5:14

the way, just curiosity, because

5:17

I think a lot of people don't pursue legal action

5:19

because they know it's going to take a long time

5:21

or they feel like it's just going to be a

5:23

hassle. Do you have any regrets

5:25

about going through that process? No, absolutely

5:27

not. That's my mom

5:29

and myself, my brother at that

5:32

time, single parent home, my

5:34

mom raised me. I'm my mom's oldest child,

5:36

so I'm her baby. I'm her first born.

5:38

So to get that phone call that I

5:41

just been hit by a car and the

5:43

couple left, of course she was

5:45

serious. So She as a

5:47

parent, she is the one that

5:49

really facilitated and spearheaded that. But

5:51

We were rewarded financially and at

5:53

that time back in 2006, 2007,

6:00

That money and get me through my first

6:02

year college made me get my first car.

6:04

So. Was everything was in the

6:06

deathly. Financially is still.

6:09

Hurt me because I was an athlete. As

6:12

a really good athlete, Alamos the all

6:14

American when it came to track. I

6:17

ran track. With. While the

6:19

Penn Relays and our lap as

6:21

bright as a basketball star was

6:23

a football players well so a

6:25

really. It is indeed a

6:27

hinder my career lot and I have

6:30

an answer will change course. That's

6:32

a hell of a to is crazy. I like. Something.

6:35

To the scenes your path. That. Quickly

6:37

right leg in the blink of an

6:39

eye, your whole hapless sainz. As which

6:41

brings me back to my other question

6:43

because something made you an organizer when

6:45

you with up and that amazon when.

6:47

I say say say so Here I

6:49

see this all tied together. Madison year

6:52

from my sports doesn't work now for

6:54

me no more. And now was one

6:56

of my first passive. you know that

6:58

was my first passes. Secondly was. Like.

7:01

Of course you seen some articles are may

7:03

have heard that I used to be a

7:06

rapper. So that. The

7:09

model year nobody. Let's it's you

7:11

and thinks it's you. Were never not

7:13

a rapper. There isn't rapping about your

7:15

appearance that says it's not a rapper.

7:17

You are absolutely giving us the whole

7:19

rap revive at all times of light

7:22

says like you are we denounce but

7:24

it's still giving as and see. Exactly

7:27

so that. Is

7:29

how I became an organizer because I

7:31

was an independent rep. And.

7:33

As independent artists ample, I'm

7:35

organizing most shows. Signal: this

7:37

is before Instagram, This before

7:39

Facebook Twitter. This is my

7:41

face. This is my space

7:43

days. This is me. Going

7:45

to college campuses, Gone.

7:47

To school boys. So.

7:49

me people were d as in get

7:52

them to come the my independence shows

7:54

which idea and i had a really

7:56

really really good buzz in north jersey

7:59

and new york city for a while. I was

8:01

really doing a lot of shows. Are we going to get

8:04

a verse? You can look it up.

8:07

How about this? Yo, any real MC

8:09

always got sixteen on deck at

8:11

all times. I got mine right

8:13

here, right now. I know you do. I

8:15

know you got bars but see the thing is

8:17

that's the beauty of of the work that I'm

8:20

doing now is because my voice now is being

8:22

used in different ways. See how you just got

8:24

around that real quick. Now, this is a record.

8:26

I just want y'all to know you see how

8:28

quickly that's the way of being a good organizer.

8:30

You gotta get people to

8:32

come. You gotta come see the team

8:34

over the crowd right past that question.

8:37

Alright, carry forth. Carry forth. I won't

8:39

press you. You'll

8:41

get the bars though in different contexts

8:43

but yeah, you know, I was organizing

8:46

by having people come to my shows

8:48

and and then

8:50

I became an essential worker again. You know,

8:52

as an independent artist, I'm not making no

8:55

money. I'm breaking even by paying everybody out

8:57

at the end of the day. I feel

8:59

you. And yep, the music industry wasn't it

9:01

for me. It was a lot of things

9:03

going on back then that I wasn't really

9:05

saying trying to get involved with and

9:08

and one thing that really

9:10

got me out of it was they wanted me

9:13

to change my identity too because

9:15

of my name. My name being

9:17

Chris Smalls. My real birth name. Oh,

9:20

they felt it was like Biggie Smalls. Oh

9:23

yeah. Yeah. I didn't have conversations with people

9:25

in the industry that be around that was

9:27

around bad boy at the time and and

9:29

they were telling me like, hey, you might

9:31

want to change your image and name and I

9:34

said, this is my my mom gave you this name. It's

9:36

my name. Hey, it's mama.

9:38

It's my name is it's not

9:40

really Chris Smalls. It's Chris for

9:42

Wallace. So this is my name. I'm

9:44

not going to change who I am and yeah,

9:47

I became an essential worker again. Getting

9:49

multiple jobs and warehouses and and things

9:51

like that. I did get

9:54

married at a young age. I'm

9:56

no longer married, but I got married at 22

9:58

and I have my wow. I have my kids,

10:01

my twins right now who are, they are

10:03

11 years old, I had them. Oh,

10:05

you have like a whole adult life. Really

10:07

fast. Early, early. Yeah, really fast.

10:10

Just curious, what made you get married at 22? But

10:13

maybe. Cause it's one thing to be together, it's another thing to

10:15

be like, we gon' get married. I was in love

10:17

with my ex-wife at the time, you know, we

10:19

met at a track meet in high school and

10:21

it was like puppy love, then it grew up.

10:24

And yeah, we were really, really

10:26

in love at the time. Very

10:29

much young, both young and in

10:31

love. And I, as you can

10:33

tell, I've always been different

10:35

my whole life. Like I'm the one

10:37

that everybody going right, I'm going left. That

10:39

was me. So everybody

10:42

was like asking the same, why are you getting

10:44

married? I'm like, don't worry, why not? And

10:47

I had a really good wedding. I had

10:49

a big wedding actually. Had a really big

10:51

wedding. We had, we both got big families

10:54

and it was held at the Brownstone

10:56

and that show that been

10:58

on TV with the Mob Wives. I felt

11:00

like I did something that was fun and

11:02

different, but also meaningful for

11:04

us at the time. You know,

11:07

we both being in love and we

11:09

wanted to set an example for

11:11

our friends around us, I guess, people, you

11:14

know, a lot of couples are around us,

11:16

but they weren't really married or committed. So

11:19

we took that first leap of faith.

11:22

It didn't work out, but we

11:24

worked together for a good eight

11:26

years before we got divorced. Damn.

11:28

Actually to me, I consider that working out. Like

11:31

eight years with somebody is a success. And

11:34

I was with a good meeting. There you go. Like

11:36

10 years with a whole other person. I

11:38

feel like even if that doesn't last, I

11:40

don't think forever is the only bar for

11:42

working out. Like 10 years, we had kids

11:44

and we continue to still

11:46

be alive, both of us. Good job. Congrats.

11:50

Right. We ain't going to talk about how it

11:52

ended, but you know, we never

11:56

managed. You

11:58

know what? We're good. co-parents right now

12:01

and we are raising our kids

12:03

together and that's all that matters.

12:06

And I'm proud of my kids. My

12:08

kids are following my footsteps. Now they're

12:10

running track and playing football and basketball.

12:13

My daughter is in dance. So I'm

12:15

extremely proud. I wouldn't have changed anything

12:17

if I was to do it again.

12:19

Like my kids are the biggest blessing

12:21

to me. And really the reason

12:23

why I'm fighting is for my children. McDonald's

12:32

is not new to chicken.

12:34

So maybe stop questioning their

12:36

chicken cred and get your

12:38

hands on the McRispe. Juicy

12:41

fried chicken, buttery bun, unmatched

12:43

pickle to chicken ratio. Hey,

12:45

they know what they're doing. In fact,

12:47

we can honestly say that not McRispe.

13:03

So when you say that you're fighting, like

13:06

you said something that was really dope to me because someone

13:10

recently told me like you're a political organizer and I

13:12

was like, I'm not. No, I'm not. Like, cause I

13:14

don't want to ever step in a space where people

13:16

are doing like the real work and be trying to

13:18

claim that I'm doing something like at

13:21

the level that they're doing. Right. So I

13:23

was like, I ain't taking that on. But

13:25

she said to me, she was like, well,

13:27

by nature, you're an organizer. If you're independent,

13:29

because you have to organize people

13:32

around your work in a way that

13:34

people with a machine, you know, don't

13:36

have to do. So I thought that

13:38

was really dope that you said the same

13:40

thing. Cause that was a recent revelation for me and

13:42

I'm probably 10 years older than you. So, but we

13:44

have noticed that, you know, you weren't just ahead of

13:46

your time on the field. You were ahead of your

13:48

time in general, but I want to know, I still

13:51

never got the answer to this question. Cause I'm really

13:53

curious. Like I feel like

13:55

I'm the kind of person where I've always been

13:57

this person that walks into a place and compete

13:59

like. the problem. So

14:02

were you always that person, even though you

14:04

weren't an organizer, were you always that person?

14:06

Because that's what pushes people to become the

14:08

organizer. Oh, of course. Right? Go ahead. We

14:10

don't, you know, as black people, we're

14:12

not going to keep silence for too

14:15

long without saying something. And

14:17

unfortunately, what happens at Amazon is

14:19

everybody goes through a honeymoon phase.

14:22

See, I got

14:24

hired in 2015 at Amazon. This is

14:26

way before anybody would talk, really

14:29

heard any bad controversy about

14:31

Amazon. You didn't hear any bad PR. It was a,

14:34

it was a model employee back at that time.

14:37

Everybody, it was like the new UPS of the

14:39

era. Everybody wanted to get a job there and

14:41

they were opening up buildings all across America. So

14:43

I got pulled in with that honeymoon

14:46

phase that this is a good job

14:48

that's on the rise and I have

14:50

opportunity to grow. So that's how

14:52

I looked at it at first. When I

14:54

came in there, I didn't care what they

14:56

threw at me. I knew that it was

14:58

better than my last job. What was your

15:00

last job? Ooh, I was actually, and this

15:02

is the fun part. I was actually a

15:04

teamster working overnight

15:07

at a grocery distribution warehouse

15:09

in Carlstadt, New Jersey for

15:12

a family owned business. And

15:14

it was terrible. For people who

15:16

don't know what's a teamster. Teamsters

15:18

is one of the largest, most powerful

15:20

unions in the entire country, if not

15:23

one of them in their world. Hafa,

15:25

right? Yes. This is, well,

15:27

not no longer. This is Sean O'Brien.

15:29

He's the current president, but he is

15:31

the predecessor to the

15:34

son or grandson, one of the two of Jimmy Hafa.

15:37

And funny, all Staten Island, by the

15:39

way. So yeah, the teamsters is a

15:41

million and a half workers

15:44

strong. They are powerful. They've been around

15:46

for, I believe over a hundred years

15:48

in this country. And

15:50

I was a teamster. I was

15:53

working there. I made the union, was

15:55

there for three years. I paid

15:57

my dues. And I also had

15:59

the go through an arbitration with them. And

16:03

I realized as the youngest employee, I

16:05

was the youngest employee at that warehouse

16:08

that even the contract with the

16:10

Teamsters wasn't good. Interesting. We were

16:12

being treated really

16:14

terrible. We had white management,

16:17

all the workers, all my coworkers at

16:19

the warehouse were black. We were all pretty

16:22

much from low impoverished communities

16:25

and we didn't have a voice. We

16:28

complained, nobody really complained,

16:30

they just did what they were told.

16:32

And I wasn't with that because we

16:34

being treated like beyond disbelief to me.

16:36

As a young employee, I looked at

16:38

my contract, I said, we're getting paid

16:40

$10 an hour with

16:43

a little bonus every week. But in order

16:45

to get the bonus, we got to do

16:47

two hours of mandatory overtime and we don't

16:49

get any incentives or raises for the next

16:51

10 years. Who the hell signed this contract?

16:54

I wouldn't have signed this, but this was

16:56

signed before I even got the job. Oh.

16:59

So I couldn't even change it if I wanted

17:01

to. I didn't know anything about

17:03

the union or contract or anything like that. I

17:05

just knew that this was not it. Now,

17:07

so you just said something there that a

17:09

lot of people don't understand about unions. When

17:12

you just said that the contract was signed

17:14

before you could sign it, can you just

17:16

give folks like a little bit more insight

17:18

into what that means? Yeah,

17:21

so when you, depending on

17:23

what industry it is, for my example,

17:25

my experience, the union was already

17:27

in place. This local for the team series was

17:29

already in place for 75 years or however many

17:31

years. And

17:34

they signed contracts to

17:37

pretty much give

17:39

the workers something in writing

17:41

that explains what type of benefits,

17:43

wages that we have as

17:45

workers. And in this

17:47

contract, this contract was

17:50

already signed years prior, but it

17:52

didn't expire until I forgot the

17:54

date. But I wasn't in

17:57

on those conversations or even a part of

17:59

the union. at the time to even

18:02

put in my opinions or

18:04

my proposals, anything. So

18:06

really, whatever sign, that's

18:08

it. There is no, we go back to the

18:10

table and sit back and forth. And

18:13

a lot of people who join the

18:15

unions, they don't even realize their

18:18

own contract, but they don't look at them. I

18:20

just happened to ask my shop stewardess, cannot look

18:23

at the contract. But a lot of workers

18:25

would just, they would

18:27

just sign it because they were used to,

18:29

or accustomed to the type of culture that

18:31

they had there. Interesting. Cause

18:34

I know that a lot of people

18:36

don't realize that the union is making

18:38

a deal with whatever the company is

18:41

on behalf of

18:43

the employees. And like, I know as a member

18:45

of SAG and we just

18:47

had the strike, like a lot of

18:49

people were not happy with the deal

18:52

that SAG made on our behalf with

18:54

the producer's union, with the AMPP. And

18:57

I think a lot of folks were like, I don't

18:59

understand, like, can't you just negotiate the contracts? I mean,

19:01

and that's basically the deal they made. The deal they

19:04

made is essentially like, we didn't really make

19:06

any headway. When you all have your individual contracts,

19:08

you're going to have to negotiate all of these

19:10

things individually, which I'm just like, well, what was

19:12

handing those for? Right.

19:15

And that's the thing that led

19:17

me to, well,

19:19

really led us to decide that we're going

19:22

to be an independent union because

19:24

I feel like there's a lot of politics now

19:26

in these established unions. And that's

19:28

a prime example. Like we're being

19:31

misinformed and I hate to say, and

19:33

I hate to be like the one

19:35

to bear bad news, but we're not

19:37

doing shit in this country when

19:39

it comes to labor and even with my,

19:42

our historical victory with the union, with Amazon

19:44

labor union and Starbucks, because remember we won

19:46

the same day. Starboard union

19:48

and Amazon labor union, we won literally

19:51

the same day. So

19:54

for us to be here two years

19:56

now without a contract And

19:58

to look back. On. The fact

20:01

that these establish union that I just mentioned

20:03

seems to be a wonderful. Side

20:05

as has been around. Are

20:07

you a dubs? been around. They

20:10

only could Cbd three percent

20:12

of their resources to my

20:14

you in in Starbucks. White.

20:18

Its salami. We just made

20:20

generational history. Does. Being sought

20:22

to your children right now. I'm in your

20:24

class. Pneumonia t to test right now. And

20:28

visa savvy unions ain't helping

20:30

us. What's. How me more when

20:32

you are Say that You One Right when you

20:34

say that Starbucks One When you say that Amazon

20:36

One Where did you when. We

20:39

want recognition. We. Hadn't election? And.

20:42

We had an election for recognition of

20:44

the workers. The workers voted. Emmy

20:46

so represents representation from the

20:49

you so that that doesn't

20:51

mean we get a contract

20:53

automatically and the. Contract is the

20:55

agreement with the company with the employer. Exactly

20:57

Does this mean that are campaigns

20:59

is reset? It. Back. To

21:02

zero Better Now. With.

21:04

They did and what you're doing. the have

21:06

was held up in court. We've

21:08

been in court for the last two

21:10

years. I'm is been in thirty thousand

21:12

thousand mobile Amazon legal fees. For.

21:15

The last two years. And

21:17

I'm receiving that through donations.

21:19

Not. Because. We're getting

21:22

support is because the community

21:24

that people. With. Things and I'm

21:26

do when the people are meeting the traveling.

21:28

All. The connections in relationships are ones that

21:31

supporting us. But if I wasn't doing

21:33

any of this. You will

21:35

be no support for my amazon. Lee Byung was

21:37

as a say. The same thing

21:39

as gone on the Starbucks the the same

21:41

situation they can have any has support for

21:44

the icing independent you know their with workers

21:46

united. Or. They have support and

21:48

still have a contract with as

21:50

is not about really disappointed about

21:52

the fact that these labor laws.

21:55

In this country. The Nlrb

21:57

process. is not doing

22:00

us of justice is not doing us what

22:03

needs to be done. And really, when

22:05

I go to these other countries like Canada, which

22:07

is right over the border, I go, I could

22:10

catch an hour flight, and land

22:13

in a province with one of the

22:15

most progressive laws in the entire North

22:17

America. That doesn't make sense to me.

22:19

When there's been labor leaders before me,

22:21

remember, I'm a rookie. I'm a

22:23

rookie to the game. These labor leaders that

22:25

you know, that we both know, that been

22:27

in the game 10,

22:30

20, 30, 40, 50 years. Why the

22:32

hell ain't no laws being

22:35

passed on the federal level that will

22:37

help us out? And it

22:39

still blows my mind till this day. And I'm trying to figure

22:42

it out. Like, how do we get

22:44

past that? I'll move this conversation forward because

22:46

it hasn't happened to them. McDonald's

22:55

is not new to chicken. So

22:57

maybe stop questioning their chicken cred

22:59

and get your hands on the

23:02

McChrissy. Juicy fried chicken, buttery bun,

23:04

unmatched pickle to chicken ratio. I

23:07

feel like this is happening,

23:09

like literally in

23:11

every sector of

23:15

our lives right now. This

23:33

realization of that

23:37

we're all on a hamster wheel, right?

23:40

Like, whether

23:42

it's government and politics,

23:44

whether it's labor unions, whether

23:47

it is even like medical

23:49

advancements, you know, like you

23:51

just feel like we're seeing

23:53

things kind of revealed

23:55

to have just been in stasis. It's like we're

23:57

just being kept busy. Like, we're just being kept

23:59

busy. Like, and so like, you know, when

24:01

people talk about the necessity

24:04

of using the legal system, et

24:08

cetera. And I feel like

24:10

that is something that's making a lot

24:12

of people feel hopeless, but

24:15

it feels like it's making you more

24:17

empowered to keep the ball rolling.

24:19

Is that true or no? Well,

24:21

definitely. I, I came in the game

24:25

shaking things up and I

24:28

think I just had to continue shaking things up and

24:30

whatever that means, you know, and this

24:32

is important because I want people to know like,

24:36

this wasn't me three years ago. This

24:38

wasn't me three, four years ago. I was in

24:40

the club partying. I

24:43

had tickets to go see pop smoke the day

24:45

before he died. That was my

24:47

life. You know, I was a single parent. I'm

24:49

out here living my best life in 2019. You

24:53

know, I wasn't thinking about organizing any of this. I

24:55

wasn't thinking about if you'd asked me why I'd be

24:57

sitting here as a union president, I've been looking at

25:00

you like you were crazy because I

25:02

wasn't thinking about none of this. What were

25:04

you thinking about? Once again, I was like, I

25:06

was thinking about that's what I was thinking about. Think

25:08

about, no, I mean, no,

25:10

not even, you know, look, I'm a single parent,

25:12

but at the end of the day in the

25:14

club, I'm just saying like, it feels

25:17

like you had young men like interests.

25:20

Yeah, I was living my life. I'm not saying

25:22

I wasn't in a relationship. I was definitely dating,

25:24

but I wasn't even focused on that. Honestly,

25:27

I just got out of

25:29

my divorce in 2018. So

25:31

I was really in the bounce back year,

25:33

like 2019, you know, you go through depression

25:35

and all that stuff. I was like, I

25:37

was at rock bottom. I was in my

25:39

brother's basement. I just moved back

25:41

from Connecticut to New

25:43

Jersey and I'm trying to recover and I

25:46

was, I just got my car back. So

25:49

I kind of was on that

25:51

incline again. And before

25:53

the pandemic hit and slapped me right back

25:55

down. But that's where I

25:57

was mentally. I wasn't thinking about Oregon.

25:59

I wasn't. union organizer. I wasn't trying to

26:02

fight for workers rights or any of this.

26:05

I was just really trying to take care

26:07

of myself and my household. And

26:09

it wasn't until they

26:12

fired me after five years of

26:14

pouring my blood, sweat and tears into this company,

26:16

you know, I got hired in 2015. I opened

26:19

up three warehouses for Amazon. Oh, wow. New York,

26:21

New Jersey was my first one in 2015. In

26:23

2017, I

26:27

got transferred to BDL to Windsor, Connecticut.

26:29

And then in 2018, I came back

26:31

home to Staten Island and I opened

26:33

that building. So I

26:36

wasn't just an entry level worker. I

26:38

was invested into Amazon. I

26:40

was a modeled employee. I was a

26:42

supervisor for four and a half years.

26:44

I trained thousands of their employees. So

26:46

I knew the warehouse. I knew the

26:48

company more than Jeff Bezos do himself.

26:52

And I knew it so well that I

26:54

actually sent the project to Jeff Bezos. Back

26:57

in 2000, I sent him a project. So

26:59

when they fired me, they didn't know who

27:02

I was. They didn't know how valuable I

27:04

was to the company. I watched this company

27:07

progress over the tenure of my career. And I

27:09

was a part of that. It was a part

27:11

of that production. And they forgot about that when

27:13

they fired me, unfortunately. Did

27:16

you see the firing coming? No,

27:18

not at all. Because I had such

27:20

a good relationship with each and every person.

27:23

I'm talking about management, including

27:25

the general manager. I

27:27

trained all of them. I trained all

27:29

the managers in the warehouse, the one

27:31

that actually fired me. I

27:33

trained them four years ago in my first

27:36

warehouse in New Jersey. That's how deeply invested

27:38

I was in the company that no matter

27:40

what building I went to, I

27:42

trained to hire up in the building.

27:44

Because they used to come to me

27:46

in New Jersey my first year and

27:49

watch me for months. For three

27:51

months, they would shadow me. They called it

27:54

shadowing. And then we'll have an ops manager

27:56

that just got hired with the company, not on

27:58

board people from college. And they

28:01

have all the college new hires and managers. They come

28:03

in little groups and they have

28:05

to shadow a supervisor that's been there, which

28:08

was me. So they learned

28:10

everything they learned from Amazon. They learned

28:12

from me. I taught it to them. Everything.

28:16

So when I walked out, or at least

28:18

threatened to walk out, did I think I was going

28:20

to find? No, I didn't. I thought that the person

28:22

at HR who also helped

28:24

for four years, thought

28:27

she had my back. I thought the general manager

28:29

who I helped had my

28:31

back. And unfortunately, the

28:33

decision came from above

28:35

their heads, but I

28:37

didn't think I was going to get fired. No.

28:40

What made you decide to walk out? No, we're talking

28:42

life or death now. You know, I

28:44

can deal with, you know, the

28:46

bullshit that Amazon was giving us on the

28:48

production side. Like they always threw

28:50

bullshit at us and I always did what I

28:52

did. That's why my. What's an example of bullshit?

28:55

The reason I asked stuff like this is because

28:57

again, a lot of people would, like you said,

28:59

will just take it and take everything

29:01

on the chin. You know, they like, this is what it is. This

29:03

is the job. So I just got to take it. And

29:06

a lot of us don't know, wait

29:08

a minute. Like it actually don't need to be like

29:10

this. Yup. They're

29:12

violating your rights. And yeah,

29:14

bullshit for me as a supervisor at Amazon would

29:16

be like, I'll come into work one week and

29:19

then, you know, they have

29:21

these meetings with their upper management, but

29:23

they exclude us on the floor who

29:26

runs the floor. They exclude us from

29:28

those conversations. So they'll come back and

29:30

say, Hey, we're rolling out this new

29:32

project where we need everybody back on

29:35

their station within 15 minutes. And

29:37

if they're not, it's up to you guys to

29:39

scan their badges and, and reprimand

29:42

them. And I'll be the one supervisor

29:44

that be like, Oh, I'm not doing that on my own.

29:46

Y'all can do that on your floor, but I'm not doing

29:48

that on my floor. Why was that something you

29:50

wouldn't want to do? Because I

29:52

was that entry level worker that they're trying

29:54

to reprimand. I never forgot where I

29:56

came from. I was the one

29:58

that had to be back. 15 minutes

30:01

before I was a supervisor. So I'm not

30:03

going to force that on somebody who I

30:05

know can't do that. We're

30:08

talking about people that work there that are old

30:10

enough to be my grandmother. That's

30:13

in my department that's required to do the

30:15

same work as somebody who's 18 years

30:17

old. And you want them to

30:20

not only work for 10 to 12 hours,

30:24

but to do the things that they were doing

30:26

was inhumane and I wasn't doing it. And they

30:28

knew that. They knew that about me. I was

30:30

the one that always went and they respected that.

30:33

What you see now on camera, I

30:36

showed up to work just like this. I

30:38

didn't even wear my vest. That's how much respect

30:40

I had. I didn't wear my vest. I

30:43

didn't even wear my walkie talkie. I just had

30:45

my laptop and I came into work and I

30:47

walked around the whole warehouse, all three of my

30:50

warehouse and you can ask. And anybody that worked

30:52

with me would tell you the same thing. Chris

30:55

Moles would be running shit. And

30:57

everybody went to me for, because I was

30:59

popular, the same thing now. I was popular

31:01

in the building and thousands of

31:04

workers would come lean and shoulder on me.

31:06

And I was not, of

31:08

course I stayed within margin to keep

31:10

my job. I wouldn't last five years

31:13

without it, but I didn't do

31:15

things that was going to hurt people. And

31:17

I did everything in my little bit of

31:19

power to alleviate some of their pain. It

31:22

sounds like you operated with humanity

31:25

versus just policy. Exactly.

31:27

Yeah. No, definitely. And the

31:30

pandemic, like you've mentioned, what got me

31:32

to this point was the pandemic. You're

31:34

talking about COVID, New York city was the

31:37

epicenter in the world, people dying. My mom

31:39

works at Mount Sinai. She'd been there 25

31:41

years. I'm talking to her during 2020

31:45

and she's talking to me how scared

31:47

she is seeing 18 wheeler tractor trucks

31:50

full of bodies. And

31:52

we're working, we're working at

31:55

Amazon as essential workers. And

31:57

we're talking about people dying every 15 minutes.

32:00

in New York City alone. We

32:03

had no masks, no PPE.

32:05

We're shipping out and they're telling us we're

32:07

the closest thing to the Red Cross. So

32:10

I'm like, nah, this is not going down. So

32:12

I tried to go through the profit

32:14

channel. I tried to go to HR. I

32:16

went through the HR department there

32:18

and they gave me the runaround. It's been,

32:20

been, been, been, been the block. And I

32:22

kept coming around and I'm like, yo, y'all

32:25

telling us the social distance, but

32:27

we're still sitting shoulder to shoulder

32:30

and people are missing in my department.

32:32

I'm talking about it was eerie. People

32:34

were just not showing up to work

32:37

because they were sick. They

32:39

were vomiting, they were passing out. There was

32:41

something off. And I said, we need

32:43

to shut this warehouse down. That's what I told them. I

32:45

said, we need to shut it down. No ifs, ands,

32:47

buts around it. I don't care what y'all talking about. Shut

32:50

this shit down. And that's when they

32:52

decide to just quarantine me out

32:55

of 8,000 people, just me. So

32:57

I broke the quarantine to do the walkout and

33:00

that's what led to my fire. And

33:02

then they blame me for violating the policy

33:04

that nobody seen. So that's

33:06

what I got fired for, a policy that nobody ever

33:08

saw. Violating social distancing,

33:11

whatever they call. And

33:13

it's like, how can you, how can you roll

33:15

out a policy and I'm a

33:17

supervisor, never seen it.

33:25

McDonald's is not new to chicken.

33:28

So maybe stop questioning their chicken

33:30

cred and get your hands on

33:33

the McChrisspy. Juicy fried chicken, buttery

33:35

bun, unmatched pickle to chicken ratio.

33:38

And it ain't know what they're doing. In fact,

33:40

we can honestly say, they're

33:42

not McChickens, they're truly chickens. Me,

33:46

McChrisspy. Oh,

33:48

I'm McBub. I'm

33:50

McBub. At

33:57

what point did you say, Okay.

34:01

Y'all fired me. We about to set up a union. When

34:04

did that hit you? Where were you when that

34:07

idea hit you? Were

34:09

you on a horse? No, the

34:11

union actually wasn't even a

34:13

thought until after a year and a half after I was

34:16

fired. When I first got

34:18

fired, remember, Jeff Bezos

34:21

signed off on that smear campaign about me. That's

34:23

what really, cause I got fired. I didn't know

34:26

what the hell to do. The

34:28

journalist, you know what happened the day

34:30

that I fired? I was like, yeah,

34:33

I got fired because I did something that I thought

34:35

was supposed to, you know, that's what was supposed to

34:37

happen. So it wasn't until

34:39

I did an interview on pics 11 and

34:42

the journalist reaction was like, you got fired.

34:44

And I'm like, yeah, man. I'm like, what

34:46

do you mean? Like why are

34:48

they tripping? I'm

34:52

like, Oh shit. They

34:54

violated my rights. Oh,

34:57

and then it prime

35:00

time. MSNBC and people could

35:02

lift this up March 30th, 2020

35:05

go to MSNBC. I'm

35:09

on prime time with Chris

35:11

Haynes APM. Amazon

35:14

call MSNBC 30 times

35:17

to get me removed. They didn't want me to tell

35:19

it. Whatever I was whistle blowing on. They did not

35:21

want me going. They called the producer. He said, I

35:23

don't know who the hell you are, but

35:25

whatever you got to say tonight, Amazon

35:28

has called us 30 times trying to get you

35:30

removed. Not realizing that that's going to make

35:32

them put you on even more. Cause they like,

35:34

Oh, we about to get hit. Oh, I

35:36

got him. So I said, it's up. It's

35:38

up on. So what I

35:40

shared that night, I

35:43

cost them $4 billion. The

35:47

next day they dropped their hand delivered

35:50

hand delivered PPE to my building.

35:53

Right. So I'm not going to wait. So wait,

35:55

wait, wait, wait, wait. Why did they hand deliver the PPE

35:57

to your building? You're not an employee anymore. This was just

35:59

them being. Wow. This is

36:01

them being retro

36:03

actors to what we've

36:05

been complaining about. And then

36:08

when the media shows up after Adam been fired,

36:10

they're like, Oh, look, we have it. We've

36:12

been given that that's how they do shit. So

36:16

every and I'm not and I'm not talking about my

36:19

building. I talk about every building in

36:21

the entire Amazon network got PPE the

36:23

next day, not just mine. So

36:25

I cost this company $4 billion

36:28

the next day because they

36:30

had to get $4 billion of PPE. Exactly.

36:34

Which they got. Jeff Bezos got that bad. He

36:36

did that in blanket. So what was the holdup

36:38

the entire time? So you

36:41

fired me. Now you did a terrible PR

36:43

job because now Jeff Bezos

36:45

signed off on the smear campaign about

36:47

me. And that's when she hit the

36:49

fan for him PR he

36:51

stepped down and remember

36:54

they called me not smart or articulate.

36:56

Ironically, they said to make me the

36:58

face of the whole unionizing efforts against

37:00

Amazon. Let me just say this

37:02

though. One of the

37:05

things that really irritates me is that

37:07

if you don't dis somebody, like make

37:09

it accurate. Okay. Like that's just such

37:11

an inaccurate dis. Like one of the

37:13

first things I noticed from the beginning

37:15

of this interview was this brother reads

37:17

because he's using a whole, like your

37:19

spectrum of vocabulary is very wide. And

37:21

then you're like, well, I'm an MC.

37:24

You can't tell an MC that they're not

37:26

articulate. Like that's literally part of the job.

37:28

So if they're going to say anything, it

37:30

should have been like, we don't like the

37:32

designs on his do rags. Like coming

37:34

in with something

37:36

that makes sense. Like get out

37:39

of here and you articulate with

37:41

fronts in, you know how hard it is

37:44

to talk articulately with front,

37:46

with a grill in y'all. Like this

37:48

man right here is giving you skills

37:50

on another level. I hate it. Like

37:52

all the way to the white house with it, all the way

37:54

to the white house with it. And I actually said that to

37:56

myself when I saw you at the white house, I was like, Oh, he

37:58

didn't even take the girls out. the White House, he may

38:01

have had to put them through the scanner. That's impressive.

38:03

That's impressive. We'll get to that because

38:06

the same stigma about how my appearances

38:08

at work happened at the White House

38:11

too. And the back story is that,

38:13

you know, Bernie invited, well,

38:19

was telling me that I might potentially get invited

38:21

out. There was rumors about me being invited and

38:23

what Bernie has said to me and I was

38:25

like, what? He's like, Oh, you might have to,

38:28

you know, you might have to change your appearance a little bit. I'm like, I'm

38:30

like, I'm like, Bernie didn't

38:33

have to change his appearance, which

38:35

looks like an angry man in

38:37

a deli sending suit back. Then

38:40

how dare he ask you to

38:42

change yours? So right. I was

38:44

like, listen, if I got to do

38:46

anything that I ain't come, you

38:49

know, like I'm coming as is and if

38:51

this is who I am, I'm not changing.

38:53

I'm representing the community I come from. Chris,

38:55

how did you get like that? Were you always like this?

38:58

Like, who instilled that in you?

39:00

Your mother, my mother, same.

39:02

Definitely. Yeah. My mom, like

39:05

I said, a strong black woman raised me.

39:07

My father's been incarcerated my whole life. He's

39:09

still incarcerated. And yeah,

39:12

you know, I get everything from my

39:14

mom, you know, her attitude, her strength,

39:17

resiliency, you know, black women. My

39:20

mom put that in me from day one and

39:23

she'll be proud after hearing this interview anyway.

39:25

And yeah, you know, she she

39:28

supports me. Your mom does rock with me.

39:30

Was it your mom or was it my

39:32

mom? My mom rocks with you. My

39:34

mom definitely rocks with you. My whole

39:36

family does. My whole family does beyond

39:38

that. So even me like,

39:42

I grew up watching you. Come on.

39:44

You know, I'm not not. Like seriously,

39:46

black don't crap.

39:50

We look good. My mom looked like my sister and

39:52

so do you. Appreciate

39:55

you. You know, that that's true. Right there

39:57

has always been a part of me and

39:59

I always been different. different and

40:01

and when Amazon fired me, I

40:04

started playing for a different team. That's just

40:06

what it is and I'm still a rookie.

40:08

I'm learning as I grow every

40:11

day. I'm learning. I'm like a sponge now and

40:13

now they just gave me a **** passport. I

40:15

didn't have a passport. I just got a passport

40:17

this year, but I already right.

40:19

So for 35 years, I want you to

40:21

all left the country a million times already,

40:23

but I'm just saying I just

40:26

think about it. I didn't even leave the country

40:28

before any of this and

40:31

then in one year, not only have I

40:33

been all over the world, but I'm

40:35

learning the labor laws that we don't

40:37

have. Yeah, I left Sweden. Sweden is

40:40

90% union density. Come

40:43

back to America with a 6% union

40:45

density. Well, here we are. We're

40:47

patting ourselves on the back over strikes. When

40:50

they do strikes in all the

40:52

countries, they shut down the entire

40:55

country. There's no water. There's no

40:57

sanitation. There's no electricity because all

40:59

of the unions go on strikes

41:01

for the other unions all

41:04

together and they shut down in when I

41:06

went to Paris last year and we all

41:08

posted about Paris shutting down the country. We

41:10

remember that I met the

41:12

union president. You know what I was

41:14

the first American Union president

41:17

in history to go

41:19

do that. What? What?

41:22

Me in 2023.

41:26

Where's all these other union presidents? What are y'all doing?

41:28

But why do you think that is? Why do you

41:30

think that that hasn't been? Simple

41:32

communism, social anything anything

41:34

around communism because all those other

41:37

unions are communist countries. Communist

41:39

unions anything around

41:41

socialism, communism, Marxism, Americans

41:44

don't want no they don't want nothing to

41:46

do with that. Why? Politics,

41:49

the Democrats. You take the Democrats want

41:51

to go talk to politicians that are

41:53

in the Socialist Party. No,

41:56

no. But why? Because this is

41:58

the thing a lot of people. don't understand

42:00

this. Like a lot of people have,

42:02

we have been as Americans, right? We

42:05

have been just told these things about

42:07

any context. Oh, communism is bad. Socialism

42:09

is bad. And we're not taught about

42:11

what they actually are to even determine

42:13

for ourselves, this is bad, right? Even

42:15

the concept of democracy, we've been told

42:18

that that's what this is. We do

42:20

not live in a democracy, by

42:22

the way, but we are told that

42:24

this is a democracy. This is a Republican

42:26

at its best. It's an autocracy, right? Where

42:29

it's like these people at the top are

42:31

making the actual final decisions based on

42:33

what they want. They're only, right? Like

42:35

we'll go and hopefully like push the

42:38

needle, but ultimately they have the final

42:40

say the democracy that's real means that

42:42

we are the ones who are creating

42:45

the final say like whatever we vote

42:47

on is going to be what it

42:49

is. So I'm curious, like in your

42:52

opinion, why do you think they have

42:54

been so adverse? What

42:56

is it about socialism and communism

42:59

that these other union and Democrats

43:01

and labor leaders are so adverse

43:03

to? And I'm a

43:05

union president and I'm making, and

43:08

I'm making what, six figures.

43:10

I'm getting union dues. I

43:13

have a good relationship with the president.

43:15

I got a good relationship with the

43:17

Democrats. I can call Bernie up. I

43:19

can call AOC up. I can call

43:21

whoever I want to get them to

43:23

come endorse me and I can vice versa

43:25

use the union dues to endorse them. I'm complacent.

43:28

I don't need to organize what I need to

43:30

organize for. I'm already taken care of. Now,

43:33

when it comes to individualism, of course,

43:36

let's have another conversation. How many black

43:39

union presidents, you know, besides myself, I'll

43:42

wait. All right then. So I'm

43:45

like, exactly. So these conversations are not

43:47

being held. You telling me in 2024

43:50

that the young black man with grills

43:54

in his mouth is the

43:56

face of the labor movement in America? There's

43:58

something wrong. this

44:00

guy said who I am and why I'm doing this and

44:02

what I do. But they're not

44:04

really asking himself, why am I

44:07

the one that was chosen for it? Because

44:11

it don't happen. The universe don't work

44:13

that way. As I

44:15

mentioned, three, four years ago, that's not who I was.

44:17

But God has was

44:19

already written. I don't know. I'm a

44:21

messenger. What made you take this on,

44:23

though? Because a lot of times we're handed things

44:25

and we don't take the note. We're

44:28

told by a higher power, like, this is your

44:30

path. And we'd be like, nah, nah, I don't

44:32

want that. I don't want that. What is it that

44:34

made you say, I'm gonna take this and go.

44:39

Y'all, this man is

44:41

in here dropping all the

44:43

gems, all the information, all the knowledge in

44:45

such a way that I was like, we

44:48

can't we can't just do one episode. So

44:50

y'all gonna have to stick around. Next week,

44:52

we will have part two of side effects

44:54

of labor unions with the head of the

44:56

Amazon labor union, Chris Smalls. Hello, friends. We

44:59

got some information going on over here.