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0:42

Hey

0:46

small town fam, it's Yardley. How

0:48

are you guys? We have a jaw-dropping

0:51

episode for you today from a terrific

0:54

new guest. We're welcoming to the podcast

0:56

named Detective Brad. So

0:59

if you listen to or watch

1:02

a lot of true crime, like I do, you've

1:05

probably heard people in the criminal justice

1:07

system say that there are only

1:09

three reasons why people commit

1:12

murder.

1:12

They are love, money, and

1:15

pride. I remember the first

1:18

time I heard that several years ago and I

1:20

remember thinking, that is an absurd

1:22

generalization. There have to

1:25

be more than three reasons why

1:27

people kill each other. But

1:29

now every time I listen to, watch, or

1:32

read about a true crime case that's a

1:34

homicide, the motive is

1:37

always one of those three. I'd be

1:40

so curious to know if you also find

1:42

that to be true. In the meantime,

1:44

I'm not going to tell you which of those motives

1:46

is the reason for today's episode, but

1:49

I will tell you that this case unfolds

1:51

like a limited series on your favorite streaming

1:54

platform. There's a carnival

1:56

bear, scuba divers, and

1:59

uncooperative suspects. and his guilt-ridden

2:01

friends to name just a few of the details

2:03

you're about to hear. Suffice to

2:05

say, there are a lot of moving

2:08

pieces in this case, and it takes

2:10

quite a while for police to gather enough evidence

2:13

so that they can finally arrest the killer.

2:16

Because in addition to all of the other

2:18

things working against them, the

2:20

killer is not unfamiliar with the

2:22

kinds of clues police will be looking for,

2:25

so he does a fair job of covering

2:28

his tracks for a while.

2:29

Because this case is

2:32

such a big bite, we've broken it into

2:34

two episodes. This is part

2:36

one, and part two will be next

2:39

week. So please buckle

2:41

up for no such thing

2:43

as closure.

2:48

Hi there, I'm Yardley. I'm Dan.

2:50

I'm Dave. And I'm Paul. And this

2:53

is Smalltown Dicks. Dave and I are

2:55

identical twins and retired detectives

2:57

from Smalltown USA. And I'm a veteran

2:59

cold case investigator who helped catch the Golden

3:01

State Killer using a revolutionary DNA

3:04

tool. Between the three of us, we've investigated

3:06

thousands of crimes from petty theft to

3:09

sexual assault, child abuse to

3:11

murder. Each case we cover is told

3:13

by the detective who investigated it, offering

3:15

a rare personal account of how they solved

3:17

the crime. Names, places,

3:19

and certain details have been changed to protect

3:21

the privacy of victims and their families. And

3:23

although we're aware that some of our listeners may be

3:26

familiar with these cases, we ask you to please

3:28

join us in continuing to protect the true identities

3:30

of those involved out of respect for what they've

3:32

been through.

3:33

Thank you. Today

3:40

on Smalltown Dicks, we

3:42

have the usual suspects.

3:45

We have Detective Dan.

3:46

Uh, hello everyone. Hello.

3:50

We have Detective Dave. Happy

3:52

January to you, sister-in-law. Oh, oh,

3:54

thank you. I have a new title now. That's

3:56

a completely different opening. What

4:00

if this episode airs in April? Happy

4:03

season, Yardley. Thank you, David.

4:06

I'm so happy you're here. And

4:09

we have the one and only Paul Holes.

4:11

Hey, hey, how's it going? It's so good.

4:13

It's good because you're here right next to me. I

4:16

so appreciate you. I

4:18

love that guy. And small town

4:20

fam, we are absolutely delighted

4:22

to welcome a new guest to the podcast,

4:25

Detective Brad.

4:27

Hello. Thanks for having me. Thank you

4:29

so much for giving us your time

4:31

and sharing a story with us. So Brad,

4:34

before we get to how this

4:36

case came to you, tell us a little bit

4:38

about your jurisdiction

4:42

career

4:42

path, special assignments, the type

4:44

of caseload you work, maybe a little bio

4:47

about your career, and any

4:49

differences that your jurisdiction

4:51

might have contrasted with a neighboring

4:53

county, demographic type stuff.

4:56

Yeah, so I work for a sheriff's

4:58

office. Now, you

5:00

ask about what makes our demographic, I guess,

5:02

different than others is, although

5:05

we are a sheriff's office, we kind

5:07

of operate

5:08

as a

5:10

metropolitan police department almost. We

5:13

have very rural areas,

5:15

but we also have a lot of, I guess,

5:18

of a city feel to it. We cover a lot of jurisdictions.

5:22

We cover some small cities

5:24

that can't afford their own police department.

5:26

We provide those police services. So

5:28

my career, I have

5:30

worked here. I just passed my 24th year. I

5:35

spent a

5:36

couple of years on patrol and

5:39

then went to gang enforcement

5:41

where I worked for about four and a half

5:43

years. Spent

5:46

after that about five years working narcotics.

5:49

And then following that, I got promoted to

5:51

detective.

5:52

So I have now been a detective for about 11

5:54

years. I had the blessing

5:57

that after being

5:59

a detective for a while,

5:59

about a year I went to a federal task force where

6:02

I was assigned on a fugitive

6:05

task force.

6:07

And I did that for about five years. So

6:09

now I'm back working in our violent crimes unit.

6:12

We handle everything from child abuse cases

6:15

to robberies, homicides, pretty

6:17

much the full gamut. What was your

6:19

favorite period of your career?

6:21

They've

6:23

all got their perks. I

6:25

think being on the fugitive task force was

6:27

probably one of the funnest times. I bet. We've

6:30

worked with the US Marshals on a few cases and you're

6:32

just like, oh, they have toys I don't. Yep.

6:36

We definitely had some abilities that

6:38

we were able to do. Being

6:41

a task force officer, my primary responsibility

6:43

was looking for fugitives associated

6:46

to my agency. So

6:48

I've actually been able to locate

6:50

a couple of fugitives and bring them back from foreign

6:52

countries and stuff like that. Oh,

6:54

wow. That's amazing. All right.

6:57

So Brad, please tell us

6:59

how this case came to you.

7:01

So in January

7:04

of 2018, we received a

7:06

call actually from a neighboring

7:08

city agency. They were passing

7:10

a case off to us and

7:13

essentially the information

7:15

they had was a gentleman

7:17

was calling in reporting

7:19

that he had met with a friend the

7:21

night before.

7:23

And that friend disclosed to him that

7:25

he had murdered a female

7:28

and

7:29

that her body was in the trunk of his

7:31

BMW, which was parked around

7:33

the

7:34

corner of his house.

7:36

His house, meaning the friend

7:38

who said he committed the murder. Correct.

7:41

His name is Johnny. Jeff went on

7:43

to say that the girl had

7:45

owed Johnny some money, which is why

7:47

he ultimately ended up killing her. In

7:50

order to start disposing of the body,

7:52

he had actually dismembered her and put

7:54

those body parts into black

7:56

plastic bags with bleach and.

10:00

and the information the detectives are seeing in the

10:02

car. Everything seems to be aligning.

10:06

So at that point, we're

10:08

a little questionable whether we

10:10

have enough probable cause to get that

10:12

search warrant. So we're trying to think of

10:15

ways that we can bolster that. So

10:17

reaching back to my narcotics background, I

10:20

thought, well, what if we get a cadaver

10:22

dog to just go walk by this car

10:24

and do a search, essentially?

10:27

So we reached out to our

10:30

local search and rescue team, and they

10:33

get a cadaver dog. Takes them a

10:35

couple hours to get out there.

10:36

So when they get there, they start

10:39

out having a dog walk down

10:41

the sidewalk,

10:42

checks a couple of cars that are parked around the BMW.

10:46

So they kind of walk by those. Dog doesn't

10:48

alert to anything. Dog walks past the BMW,

10:52

walks around the car, and

10:54

alerts on the driver's door and

10:56

the rear door of the BMW.

10:59

So that was pretty

11:01

much exactly what we were hoping for. So

11:04

we were then able to get a search warrant

11:07

for that car. Brad, I'm just kind of curious,

11:09

was there an odor of bleach at all

11:11

detected? We couldn't smell anything

11:14

at that time. OK. And to

11:16

kind of go back, as all that's going

11:18

on, we had done some work upon Johnny. We

11:20

found out that Johnny was 35 years

11:22

old. He's on parole.

11:26

He had just been released from prison about

11:28

eight months before that, and

11:30

he had been imprisoned for distribution

11:33

of cocaine. Other than that, he's got

11:35

some drug and identity theft type charges,

11:38

and that's kind of his history. Nothing

11:40

violent.

11:41

So

11:43

while we're preparing the search warrant, detectives

11:45

are sitting in the car just watching it, and

11:47

pretty soon a vehicle

11:49

rolls up and two guys get out, and

11:52

the detectives immediately identify

11:55

one of them as being Johnny. So

11:58

Johnny retrieves that. a moving

12:00

blanket from the car they were

12:03

in and starts walking

12:05

towards his BMW.

12:07

Can Johnny see the detectives or are

12:09

they in a spot where they spot

12:11

him and he can't spot them? There are none

12:13

of our cars. There's one across

12:15

the street, I think, and another one down around

12:17

the corner. We're very good at

12:19

hiding

12:20

in plain sight. Some cops are not.

12:24

That is very true. So

12:28

as Johnny approaches his BMW, he's

12:30

greeted by one of the detectives who asked

12:33

if that was his car and he said it was.

12:35

The detective goes on to ask if he's

12:38

moving somewhere because he's got

12:40

a moving blanket and he sees a suitcase in the

12:42

backseat of his car. Should

12:44

be noted that Johnny instantly became

12:47

very, very nervous, was not very

12:49

interested in talking to the detectives. Johnny

12:52

said that they were planning on

12:54

just moving the car somewhere. So

12:56

the detectives ask

12:59

for consent to search the car. Johnny

13:01

of course denies and asks

13:04

if he has to stay there. So

13:07

that kind of put us in a dilemma. You know,

13:10

we're at a point where we're writing a search warrant

13:12

for this car to see if this homicide

13:15

has actually occurred and our suspect

13:17

is standing right there talking to a detective.

13:19

So do we let him go or do

13:21

we hold on to him? So

13:24

the detective has to make a quick decision and just

13:26

decides, nope,

13:27

you're free to go.

13:28

So we let Johnny walk, he

13:30

and his buddy get back in their car and

13:33

they leave.

13:33

So Johnny and his friend get back

13:35

in the car they arrived in and they leave the BMW

13:39

where it is. Correct. So

13:42

I asked the detectives to try and keep an

13:44

eye on him, see if they can follow him. They

13:47

lost him very quickly. I don't even

13:49

think they can catch up to him.

14:03

That's

14:03

an interesting dilemma. The

14:05

detective deciding to let Johnny go,

14:07

even though you all strongly suspected

14:10

that he'd hidden the body of a murdered woman in his

14:12

BMW. Tell

14:15

me about that.

14:16

When people think about, well, why'd they let him go

14:18

right then? It really is all

14:21

strategy. You have to balance, is this

14:23

an ongoing public threat or is this an

14:25

isolated incident where we don't have

14:27

this huge pool of potential victims? Is

14:30

this suspect going to talk to me at this

14:32

point or is he now hinged up and he wants

14:35

to get out of there? And so if we slow

14:37

play this and let the suspect take off,

14:39

he's like, oh, well, they're not onto me yet.

14:42

They think something's up, obviously, but there's

14:45

always risks and rewards to these

14:46

scenarios. And when

14:48

Brad said the detective decided I'm

14:50

going to let him go, I was like, I would have

14:53

done that too.

14:53

And obviously it strengthens your

14:55

case as you're getting the search warrant for the BMW.

14:58

If you then find evidence of the

15:01

body or homicide in it, then

15:03

you have a much stronger case, right,

15:05

to go and arrest Johnny and say, dude, you're

15:07

on the hook.

15:08

Now let's say Johnny, instead of getting into

15:10

his friend's car, he goes over to

15:12

his BMW and

15:14

tries to drive off. Now you've got PC

15:17

for the search warrant, so you're not going to let that go. Yeah,

15:20

we were not going to let that BMW leave. I can

15:22

tell you that.

15:23

So Johnny and Cameron get back in their

15:25

vehicle and they leave. Cameron

15:28

is the friend who's with Johnny? Yes.

15:30

We are able to determine that the

15:32

vehicle they're in is actually Johnny's

15:35

stepdad's vehicle. So

15:38

we put out a bolo for this car,

15:40

keep an eye out for it, just within

15:42

the local agencies, like, hey, if anybody sees

15:44

this thing, you know, let us know. So

15:47

at that point, we also decide, well,

15:50

let's send some detectives over to go talk to

15:52

Johnny and his mom and his stepdad

15:54

at the residence. And as

15:56

they're going over there, my partner gets

15:59

a call from. from our original caller, Jeff. Jeff's

16:02

freaking out, saying that Johnny just called

16:04

him, wanting to know who he told about

16:07

what Johnny had told Jeff.

16:08

And that is that

16:10

Johnny told Jeff he killed a woman

16:13

and chopped up her body. Correct.

16:16

So Jeff actually did a really good job,

16:19

played it off that he didn't tell anybody anything,

16:21

and turned it back on Johnny, saying, who

16:23

else did you tell? So that

16:26

was enough to kind of cool things for a little bit. Johnny

16:29

tells him that he was just contacted

16:31

by police at his BMW, and

16:34

they let him go, and he was out of there. So

16:37

back to the detectives then that go to the house,

16:40

they start talking to Johnny's parents. They

16:42

don't mention anything about a homicide investigation

16:44

or anything like that. They're investigating something,

16:47

and they believe that Johnny

16:50

might be a part of it, and try

16:52

to kind of get some background information from

16:54

them. So Johnny's

16:57

mom says, well, I just got a text from Johnny,

17:00

and it says, I'm sorry,

17:02

I love you, and that's it. She

17:05

then tried to reply to him

17:07

several times and got no response.

17:10

So a couple hours

17:12

later, we finally get the search

17:14

warrant signed for the car, and

17:16

we had made arrangements for a medical

17:18

examiner to come on out. So

17:21

we didn't actually do any searching

17:23

ourselves. Once we had the warrant,

17:25

we let the medical examiner execute

17:27

it, basically. So we pop the trunk of

17:29

the car, and when they

17:31

open the trunk of the car, there's another suitcase.

17:34

This suitcase has

17:36

what looks like a large teddy

17:39

bear sticking out of it.

17:41

So if you have seen those

17:43

big, like,

17:44

four foot tall teddy bears.

17:47

Like big carnival prize teddy bear. Correct.

17:50

So we got one of those that, like,

17:52

the legs and stuff are like hanging out of

17:54

this big suitcase because it's too big for the

17:56

suitcase. But the suitcase is

17:58

zip shut. So the medical. examiner

18:01

unzips the suitcase enough just so he

18:03

can stick his hand in there and he starts feeling around

18:07

and he finally

18:09

gets to the point where he says I'm

18:11

pretty confident this is a human

18:13

body that he feels inside of this

18:15

teddy bear. Oh. So based

18:18

on that we stopped all searching

18:20

right there. We basically sealed

18:23

up the car and we had it towed back

18:25

to our sheriff's office where we could process

18:28

it in a more sterile environment.

18:31

So we bring the car back to the sheriff's office

18:34

where the medical examiner

18:37

meets us to continue this

18:40

search of the car and from

18:43

him talking to the pathologist they

18:46

determined that don't disturb anything

18:49

bring it to us exactly how it is. So

18:52

all we do is remove the suitcases both

18:54

suitcases the one from the backseat the one from

18:57

the trunk we remove them from the

18:59

car and the

19:01

medical examiner takes those and takes them

19:03

down to the pathologist for autopsy

19:06

the following day.

19:07

So we're still kind of left

19:09

with this unknown of what we have

19:12

but we know

19:13

more likely than not that we've got a body inside

19:16

of these suitcases. So

19:18

at that point is when I really put

19:20

out the bolo we are now looking for Johnny

19:23

and we have probable cause to arrest Johnny should

19:26

anybody find him. So those bolos

19:28

go out and we put them out statewide.

19:30

We end up serving the search

19:32

warrant on this car at about 9 o'clock p.m. At

19:34

about 1030 the detectives

19:36

go back to the parents house and

19:39

this time we're gonna press the parents a little bit further

19:41

because now we know we've got a homicide.

19:43

So the detectives go to the house they

19:45

inform the parents that we are now doing a homicide

19:48

investigation and Johnny's

19:50

stepfather all of a sudden says well I can

19:53

tell you where the homicide occurred and

19:55

the detectives were just

19:57

like what?

19:58

So the stepfather takes

19:59

them over to the stairwell and points down

20:02

the stairs. And there's a

20:04

big indent at the bottom of the stairs.

20:06

The stairs kind of end in a wall. And

20:09

in the wall, the sheetrock is completely dented

20:11

in, as if like a body had

20:13

slammed into it and dented all the sheetrock.

20:16

So the parents continue to tell us that they

20:19

had been out of town for the weekend. Johnny

20:21

was left at home alone. He had actually

20:23

asked if he could have a girl come over

20:26

for the weekend, didn't say who or

20:28

provide any names or anything like that. Parents

20:30

didn't ask. So the

20:33

parents are also kind of really

20:35

into CSI and law and

20:38

order and stuff like that. So they like their

20:40

cop shows. So they were

20:42

kind of intrigued in this as well. So the

20:45

stepdad proceeds to lead

20:47

the detectives down the stairs.

20:50

One of the detectives goes down and gets

20:52

to the bottom stairs. And the stairwell

20:54

splits to the right and to the left. And

20:56

when he looks to the right, which is kind of towards this living

20:59

room area, there's this huge

21:01

red stain in the carpet. So

21:03

the stepdad proceeds to tell us that Johnny

21:06

had told him that he spilled some red Gatorade,

21:09

which seemed plausible because Johnny drinks

21:11

a lot of red Gatorade.

21:13

The detective at that point is like, what

21:15

am I walking into? So he stops. We

21:18

don't want to contaminate the crime scene if this

21:20

is actually our crime scene. So he stops

21:22

stepdad from going further. Stepdad

21:25

continues to tell him that

21:26

around the corner is the downstairs bathroom

21:29

laundry room. And

21:31

when they got home, that bathroom smelled

21:35

very strongly of bleach. And

21:37

they noticed that there were two gallons of bleach

21:39

missing. There's your bleach, Paul. Yep.

21:41

In fact, mom had made

21:43

Johnny go to the store and

21:46

buy more bleach as a

21:48

lesson of if you use something, you need to

21:50

replace it. So Johnny did.

21:52

I feel like there's a much larger lesson to

21:54

be learned here rather than

21:56

replace the bleach. Oi.

21:59

At that point, the detectives stop

22:02

and my partner starts working on

22:04

a search warrant for Johnny's house.

22:07

As all that's going on, the

22:09

city agency then, at like 11-15, receives

22:11

a 911 call of a person

22:13

yelling

22:17

for help in a kind

22:19

of a wooded area that's behind an apartment

22:21

complex, which also

22:24

kind of neighbors this big shopping complex.

22:27

So the city agency responds,

22:29

they get down there and ultimately

22:31

find the source of the screaming,

22:34

which is a male laying in a small creek

22:37

and he's got stab wounds to his

22:39

neck and both of his wrists

22:41

are cut. There's a large knife laying next

22:43

to him and they are very quickly

22:46

learned that this is Johnny.

22:47

Oh, the man whose throat is cut

22:49

is Johnny? Yep.

22:51

So it became very clear to us

22:53

that Johnny, knowing that we're on to him,

22:55

decided he was going to go take his own life. I

22:58

later learned from medical

23:00

personnel that probably the only reason

23:02

he didn't die is because this

23:04

is in January, where it's very

23:07

cold, he fell into the creek, which

23:09

he became hypothermic which lowered his blood

23:12

pressure so he didn't bleed out. Wow.

23:14

That's how it was portrayed to me. So we're

23:17

able to get Johnny to the hospital and the doctors

23:20

saved Johnny's life. Did he thank them? I

23:23

don't think so. So

23:26

all this is going on. We start directing

23:28

detectives. His car's got to be around there. You got

23:30

to find his car, the stepdad's

23:32

car. So they're scouring around. They end up

23:34

finding it in the shopping complex near

23:37

a large grocery store. And

23:40

so we get some video eventually

23:43

of this store. We see them

23:45

park. It's not very good video, but you

23:47

can see them park in the middle of the parking

23:49

lot. Johnny goes one

23:51

way and Cameron, his

23:54

buddy, goes the other direction, like

23:57

walks back towards the main road. So

23:59

I'm able to get a video. to determine

24:02

that Johnny had gone into the grocery

24:04

store, purchased the knife from

24:06

the grocery store. We actually caught that transaction

24:09

and used that knife then to walk

24:12

over to this wooded area and try to kill himself.

24:14

Was this screaming? Was that

24:17

like buyer's remorse where he's going, oh

24:19

shit, I didn't want to die or it hurt so bad?

24:22

He was screaming for help. I

24:24

think it was, I didn't die, so

24:27

now what do I do?

24:27

And it's freezing cold. So I'm in the freezing cold

24:30

water? It's a series of screw ups. Johnny's

24:32

one of those criminals that is reliable.

24:35

Criminals make mistakes and he gets caught.

24:37

He goes to prison for things. Where he just got

24:40

out of. Right.

24:41

So we get step

24:43

dad's permission to search his car. So

24:46

we get a spare set of keys from step dad.

24:48

We search the car, nothing really of

24:50

any relevance inside step dad's

24:52

car. Cameron, nowhere

24:55

to be found. Our focus that night

24:57

then turned to just focusing

24:59

on the house. We

25:01

know Johnny's in the hospital. So

25:03

we got detectives in the house with mom

25:05

and step dad. While

25:08

me and my partner are working on the search warrant for the

25:11

house. And we basically

25:13

end up deciding like once we

25:15

get the search warrant done, we're going to leave

25:17

somebody at the house all night and we're

25:19

not going to actually serve this thing until the next morning.

25:21

Cause this is going to be resource intensive. Forensics

25:25

is going to have to come out. They're

25:27

going to have to do their thing before we can even search it. So

25:29

we decide we're just going to start the next morning. So

25:32

we actually leave a patrol guy in the

25:34

house. Mom and dad don't want to go anywhere.

25:37

So they actually stay at the house

25:39

at night with a deputy sitting in their living room

25:42

to make sure that they're not going down in the basement

25:44

or disturbing anything in the house, getting rid of

25:46

any evidence. It seems like the parents,

25:49

at least my initial read is that the parents

25:51

are cooperative. They are very cooperative.

25:54

They're concerned about Johnny, but

25:57

they aren't trying to cover for him in any

25:59

way.

25:59

perform. So Brad, when they tell

26:02

you initially, oh, we

26:04

know where the homicide happened and Johnny's

26:06

stepdad takes the detective down the stairs,

26:09

what's his affect? Is he concerned?

26:12

Is he like, why wouldn't you volunteer

26:14

that information right out of the gate? I guess this

26:16

is my question.

26:17

He was just very matter of fact,

26:19

really. And when the detectives

26:22

were there the first time, they had no idea why they were

26:24

there.

26:25

And so when the detectives came back the second

26:27

time and said, Hey, just so you know, we're

26:29

doing a homicide investigation. We think Johnny's

26:31

involved. Light bulb. Light

26:33

bulb went off for stepdad. Oh,

26:35

I know where the homicide occurred.

26:37

I see. I see. Here's a bunch of shit that wasn't

26:39

here four days ago. That red Gatorade

26:42

stain is looking a little bit thicker and darker

26:44

than Gatorade normally looks. Right.

26:46

I get it. So right out of the gate,

26:49

stepdad would not have suspected a homicide

26:51

took place there. But when the detective

26:53

shares that information with him, he's like, Oh,

26:56

yep. You know, Brad, at this point,

26:59

and this is just really to put it out there

27:01

is that you're doing all of this before

27:03

the autopsy has even occurred.

27:05

Correct. You know, you have a body and

27:07

then the body, I'm assuming, you know, at this point

27:10

it is consistent with what the

27:12

reporting party Jeff said is that it has

27:15

been dismembered, but you don't

27:17

know cause of death. You don't know what kind

27:19

of injuries this body has up

27:21

and beyond the dismemberment. And

27:23

this is also going to be details

27:25

that as you're searching the crime scene,

27:27

you're going to want to know this is a very dynamic

27:30

situation that is going to be occurring over the

27:32

next 24 hours. That is correct.

27:35

Yeah. So the next morning we have to

27:37

divide and conquer because we got the autopsy

27:39

going on, which is crucial as

27:42

Paul just alluded to that, you know, we

27:44

need to figure out what happened to this person,

27:47

who is this person. And

27:49

then at the same time, several of us

27:51

are out at the house getting ready to

27:53

serve this search warrant on the house. So

27:57

me and one of my other partners are at the house with.

28:00

and stepdad, we relieved the deputy that

28:02

sat on their couch all night long. So

28:05

two of my other partners, along with the district

28:07

attorney and stuff, go to the autopsy.

28:11

So as we're at the house, we're

28:13

talking to mom and stepdad, and we're trying to

28:15

figure out who this victim might be. Mom,

28:18

again, is re-telling us the story of how Johnny

28:21

had asked to have a girl come over for the weekend.

28:23

She throws out a couple names, but

28:26

she has no idea who was

28:28

coming over.

28:29

So I learned that

28:32

Johnny's on their cell phone plan.

28:34

I asked mom, can I log into your wireless

28:36

account

28:37

and see who he's been talking to? Absolutely.

28:40

She gives me the account,

28:42

password, and everything.

28:44

I go to my computer, log in, start going

28:46

through call logs for Johnny. And

28:48

I come up with a few names,

28:51

but you know, it could be any of them. So

28:53

at the same time, detectives at

28:55

the autopsy are telling me

28:57

that they determined that

28:59

the arms and legs of

29:01

this female body had been cut off.

29:04

She'd been decapitated. They had

29:08

all the body parts, except

29:10

for the fingertips and

29:13

the head.

29:13

So the fingertips and the head were missing.

29:16

The head to the bear was

29:19

also missing. They had also

29:21

noticed that all the tattoos that this

29:23

person had had either been cut off

29:26

and discarded or

29:29

mangled so you couldn't tell what they were.

29:31

So Johnny's watched a lot of true crime. Well,

29:33

no, Johnny's a criminal and knows

29:36

what we asked for on face sheets when I

29:38

book you into custody. Scars, marks, tattoos.

29:40

He's doing everything he can to

29:43

obscure this woman's identity. That's

29:45

familiarity with the system. Yes.

29:48

Johnny screwed up in one spot, though, in

29:50

that one of the tattoos was left

29:52

in one of the black

29:54

garbage bags. So the detectives

29:56

shoot me a picture of this tattoo, which has

29:59

a specific word.

29:59

With that information, I'm

30:02

still going through phone records trying to identify

30:04

names. I take the few names that I

30:06

have and I start looking for tattoos in our jail

30:08

database. So our jail, fairly

30:11

good at when people come in, you

30:13

know, what tattoos do you have? They

30:16

snap pictures of them and enter

30:18

a description which is somewhat searchable

30:21

for us. So I start

30:23

going through some of the names I get from the call records

30:26

and run them through our jail

30:29

database and I come up with

30:31

one girl named Stacy. Stacy

30:34

has a tattoo with the exact same

30:36

word

30:37

as this tattoo they found in the garbage bag.

30:39

I pull up a picture of it and sure

30:42

enough, it is exactly

30:44

the same tattoo.

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31:43

So we now have an identity for our

31:45

victim, which is Stacy. What

31:47

can you tell us about Stacy? So

31:50

Stacy, she's 28 years old.

31:52

She lives locally. Her family

31:55

lives actually very nearby where Johnny

31:57

lives. history

32:00

of some property crime stuff, very minor

32:03

criminal history, but we can

32:05

see some of her associates and some of them are

32:07

very familiar to us, particularly

32:09

from the drug world and so on and so forth.

32:11

We end up finding her Facebook account

32:14

and we start seeing some posts on there from

32:17

like a couple days after

32:19

when we think this homicide

32:22

occurred. So when Jeff

32:24

initially reported it, the info

32:26

he got from Johnny was that he

32:28

had killed this girl four days before. So

32:30

we had kind of an idea when

32:32

this homicide occurred, which lines

32:35

up with when Johnny's mom and stepdad

32:37

were out of town as well.

32:39

So we see some Facebook posts

32:41

that are kind of past that timeline,

32:43

which was curious to us. What were

32:45

the posts like pictures, status

32:47

posts? The way my mind thinks is I'm

32:49

like, oh, suspects posting to Alibi

32:52

himself and show that this person was alive

32:54

long after I had less contact with

32:57

him. You've done this before.

32:58

Just a post that she put out is that

33:00

she was going to the beach and

33:03

if anybody wanted to join her. We

33:05

found more later, but at

33:07

the time, that was the one we saw is that she was

33:09

going to the beach. So now

33:12

that we know who Stacy is, we got

33:14

to notify Stacy's family. So

33:17

we get a couple of detectives, they take

33:19

a chaplain with them and they head over to

33:21

Stacy's parents' house, which is

33:23

only probably a quarter,

33:26

a half mile away from where the BMW

33:28

was found.

33:29

So they're over there talking to the family.

33:32

They ended up bringing into Stacy's

33:35

sister

33:36

and they're like, are your parents around? We

33:38

need to talk to them about

33:40

Stacy.

33:41

And they're like, well, is something wrong?

33:43

And she's like, well, I'm sorry to tell you that

33:46

Stacy is deceased. She

33:48

was murdered and the

33:50

family, as you can imagine,

33:52

is just devastated. So

33:55

the parents are notified.

33:57

Family members from all over

33:59

started.

33:59

showing up at the house while the detectives are

34:02

there. And one

34:04

of them

34:05

starts

34:06

searching the internet and comes up with a

34:08

news story about

34:10

a girl who was found murdered

34:13

in this town and her body was dismembered.

34:16

And comes running at the detectives with her phone

34:18

going, is this her, is this her?

34:20

And we hadn't released

34:23

that information yet. So

34:25

our detectives were completely taken a gas

34:28

by it and are kind of overwhelmed

34:30

at that point because they don't know what to think. Like, I

34:32

don't know what to tell this family. So

34:36

that actually as a side thing, we

34:38

started figuring out somewhere along the way, we

34:40

had a leak. Information was getting to the media

34:43

that we were not officially providing.

34:46

And we never actually did get to the bottom

34:48

of that. So frustrating. Yeah,

34:50

we never could figure out where that information came

34:52

from, but it got out to

34:54

the media. So for us, for our investigation,

34:57

like that's a real hindrance because there's a lot

34:59

of details for these investigations

35:01

that we like to keep secret and keep close

35:03

to the chest so that only people that are involved

35:05

in it

35:06

know these details. Well, now

35:08

some of our details are getting out to the public.

35:10

And so that to us was concerning.

35:13

So in talking to Stacy's family, particularly

35:15

her mother, they find out that the

35:18

day before we suspect Stacy

35:20

was killed, mom had gone out to

35:22

pick up Stacy at another jurisdiction

35:25

not too far away. And

35:28

Stacy wanted to go to rehab. She wanted

35:30

to go to an inpatient rehab. So mom

35:32

goes and picks her up, takes her to a local hospital

35:34

to get treatment and Stacy

35:37

gets refused. They don't have room

35:39

for her. And they refer to this

35:41

other facility that she can go to

35:44

the next morning. So when Stacy

35:46

gets denied at the hospital, she

35:48

tells the mom, I need you to get me a motel

35:50

room for the night. And then come pick

35:52

me up in the morning and take me to this other

35:55

rehab facility.

35:56

So mom agrees

35:59

and makes a reservation. for a local motel.

36:01

So they take Stacy to the motel and

36:04

Stacy checks in and goes into a room. A

36:06

couple of her sisters come and check on her later

36:09

in the evening, have a talk with her.

36:11

At one point, Stacy gets upset

36:15

with them and just asks them all to leave. So

36:17

they all leave, Stacy's at

36:20

the motel by herself and that's

36:22

the last anybody's seen her as far as

36:24

we know. So

36:28

while they're talking to the family,

36:29

we had already started the search warrant on the

36:32

house, Johnny's house, and

36:35

that was pretty much forensics. And forensics

36:38

worked that house for about

36:41

two days with just them.

36:43

So that was without detectives in

36:45

their way. I mean, we were there to provide

36:47

security, but for two days,

36:50

forensics process this house looking

36:52

for evidence. Paul, can you kind

36:54

of talk about, not to go off on a tangent, but

36:56

I just want listeners to be aware.

36:59

You have this set of facts. You're

37:01

leading this forensic team that's going into

37:03

this house to seize evidence. How

37:06

do you tackle that? How many people do you need?

37:08

What kind of equipment would you want? I want you

37:10

to give us kind of a game plan.

37:12

Well, in terms of number of people,

37:14

as well as the type of equipment, it

37:17

is all dependent upon the circumstances of the case.

37:20

The reality is, and you see this all the time

37:23

in the movies where you see a crime

37:25

scene inside a house being searched, and

37:27

you have 25 individuals with

37:30

windbreaker jackets on, that's a FBI

37:32

on the back doing the search, and that's absolutely

37:34

not what you want to do. We

37:37

really minimize the number

37:39

of people inside doing

37:42

the

37:42

crime scene processing. Typically it's

37:44

two. Now, sometimes the

37:46

size of the scene might dictate

37:49

more, or bringing

37:52

in specialized people. When

37:54

I first get on the scene, I'm

37:56

told what I call is the story. Now

37:59

there are certain...

37:59

objective facts that are within that

38:02

story. But we've all experienced

38:04

that what is understood at the time

38:07

that that crime scene is being looked at often

38:09

changes as the investigation proceeds.

38:13

But as I'm processing that crime

38:15

scene,

38:16

if I am noticing evidence

38:18

that suggests that the story is

38:20

wrong, I need to inform

38:22

the investigators as soon as

38:25

possible because they need to be armed

38:27

with that information as they are contacting

38:29

witnesses and interviewing suspects. Now,

38:31

as far as crime scene processing,

38:34

there are the standard steps in

38:36

terms of documenting, photographically,

38:39

sometimes video, sketching,

38:41

you don't disturb anything, and you go through

38:44

a series of non-destructive

38:46

steps, both from a documenting standpoint

38:49

and a searching standpoint, but

38:51

then you start getting into the destructive processing.

38:53

Okay, I'm now gonna collect trace evidence from

38:55

certain locations, either via tape lists

38:58

or vacuum, or even just using

39:00

forceps and collecting that. Late

39:02

in processing, where now I am actually

39:05

applying powder, super glue,

39:07

et cetera. But in a homicide

39:09

case, oftentimes you

39:11

have, let's say a house and that entire house

39:13

inside can be the crime scene

39:16

and could contain evidence. You

39:18

know, just there's so many differences from

39:20

one scene to another. Since I've got you on the

39:22

hook, I just wanna go back, since

39:24

we're on the topic of Paul Holes knowing

39:27

a few things,

39:29

the autopsy. You've got body

39:31

parts stuffed inside of a carnival

39:34

bear, and you've,

39:36

I'm guessing, have been to several autopsies

39:39

with dismembered bodies. Kinda

39:41

walk us through what that looks like in

39:44

the morgue, where the medical examiner is. Well,

39:46

like in this particular situation, we

39:48

have two suitcases, right?

39:51

We have one that was in the trunk with the large

39:53

teddy bear with the body parts that have been placed inside

39:55

of it. And then you also have the suitcase from

39:58

inside the car, which I'm assuming,

39:59

contained other parts of her body. So

40:02

between the two suitcases is all

40:04

of her body, at least what was present, right Brad?

40:06

Well, everything but the head and the fingertips.

40:09

Correct. So the suitcase, that's

40:11

evidence. That needs to be documented and you

40:13

document from the outside in and

40:16

it's a layered approach. Document that

40:18

suitcase from all angles, photographically,

40:20

looking for trays, looking for bloodstains, then

40:23

the suitcase can be opened up and then now

40:25

you're documenting again. And as you

40:27

go deeper and deeper to where

40:29

now the body parts are being

40:32

exposed, this is now where

40:34

the pathologist or the pathologist assistant comes

40:37

over and it's the removal of the body parts.

40:39

And then the body parts between the two suitcases

40:42

would ultimately be laid out in anatomic

40:45

position. And now I'm evaluating

40:48

from a criminalist level, each

40:51

body part for types of forensic

40:53

evidence that might be present, such as do

40:55

I have trace evidence that I need to collect before

40:58

they start doing their autopsy

40:59

procedure? What about the bone

41:02

ends? Is there any tool marks that I need

41:04

to be able to record both

41:06

what they look like face on as well as

41:09

using oblique lighting in order to be able to

41:11

illustrate the types of striations? Let's say

41:13

it's a saw that was used. Is

41:15

there any

41:16

unusual stains, whether

41:18

it be bloodstains or other types of stains? And

41:20

it just all depends on what's there. Ligature

41:22

present, you know, not. So whatever's present,

41:25

I need to focus in on that. But because

41:27

we are now dealing with the human body,

41:30

this is the purview of the ME's

41:32

office, the coroner's office. So I am constantly

41:34

having to talk to the pathologist

41:37

and say, okay, I'm going to be doing this now, or I need

41:39

to take this swab and I have to

41:41

get that okay in order to proceed

41:44

to the next step. Yeah. And I just wanted

41:46

folks to understand in these situations,

41:49

I'm hearing Paul describe

41:51

a crime scene processing like this case

41:53

or an autopsy and the documentation.

41:56

This is an all day affair. Yeah.

41:58

I guess to go back to the. autopsy

42:01

when they did start taking the layers

42:03

off, as Paul put it, in opening

42:06

the suitcases and then opening

42:08

this teddy bear and then inside

42:11

that as plastic bags. As they're starting to

42:13

do that, they're being overwhelmed

42:15

with the odor of bleach. So

42:17

that aligns with stepdad's statement

42:20

about all the missing bleach and also

42:22

the story that Joni told Jeff.

42:25

So as far as the forensics go, they

42:27

processed the entire basement

42:29

of this house, Joni's house. They

42:33

also can still smell the strong odor of

42:35

bleach in the laundry room, bathroom,

42:37

downstairs in the basement. They

42:39

treat a pretty good portion of the

42:41

house with chemical agents that

42:44

react with blood to look for trace

42:46

amounts of blood. Surprisingly,

42:48

Joni actually did a fairly good job of cleaning

42:50

up, but they were able to find

42:52

some trace amounts of what appeared to be

42:55

blood. They found some spots

42:57

in the carpet where it was clear that the carpet

42:59

had been cleaned or attempted to be

43:01

cleaned. When they

43:02

pulled the carpet up, the padding

43:05

underneath is soaked with what appears

43:07

to be blood. What often

43:09

is seen, you may see on

43:11

the carpet itself a blood stain

43:13

that's maybe 10 inches in diameter. And

43:16

you think it's a smallish blood stain. And

43:19

then when that carpet is pulled back,

43:22

that carpet pad has a blood

43:25

stain that is like a sponge.

43:27

And now you're dealing with a three foot diameter

43:30

blood stain. It's a very interesting

43:32

thing, but that's

43:32

what's so important. Any

43:35

time you have carpeting, you

43:37

are going through those layers, the carpet

43:39

to the padding, going down to the

43:41

subfloor. Yep. So they seized

43:44

a lot of swabs of apparent

43:46

blood. We see some of that carpeting.

43:49

The big red stain that was at the bottom

43:51

of the stairs did not appear

43:53

to be blood.

43:54

It really might have been red Gatorade.

43:56

It very well could have been red Gatorade.

43:59

So they collected a lot of hair, a lot

44:02

of fiber stuff where it looked like it

44:05

could have been the stuffing of the bear and stuff

44:07

like that for fiber analysis later at

44:09

the crime lab, some duct tape,

44:11

things along those lines that

44:13

were in the basement. So that goes

44:16

on for, like I said, like two days

44:19

before detectives are finally called

44:21

back to actually do a physical search

44:24

of the house looking for any evidence of

44:26

the crimes. During this time, what's

44:28

Johnny's condition? Is

44:31

he improving? Johnny, he's in critical condition at

44:33

the hospital. So we hadn't even tried

44:35

to contact him yet, but we send

44:37

some detectives over to the motel where Stacy

44:40

had been staying to try and lock

44:42

that down, see what we can figure out there. Is there

44:44

anything in the room? We don't

44:46

wanna assume that Johnny's

44:48

house is actually where this homicide occurred. Is

44:51

it possible the homicide actually occurred at

44:53

the motel? So we send people

44:55

over there and what they're able to learn

44:57

from there

44:57

is that

44:59

Stacy had actually left there at

45:02

about almost midnight

45:05

the night she checked in and she

45:07

had asked her sisters and everybody to

45:09

leave. She actually leaves

45:11

the motel and they can see that on camera.

45:15

She doesn't have any of her bags with her. She just

45:17

has what looks like her cell phone or a wallet

45:19

in her hand. And now this is the last

45:22

time there's any sighting of Stacy.

45:24

Does Johnny's cell phone records

45:27

indicate that he had called

45:29

or had communication with Stacy around

45:32

the time she left the motel or after she left

45:34

the motel?

45:35

Yes, they had been

45:37

in contact around that time.

45:39

1C-C MER TOTAL

45:52

Brad, what are the initial findings

45:54

at the autopsy regarding how Stacy died?

45:57

So the medical examiner makes a finding.

45:59

that Stacy was likely

46:02

killed by manual strangulation. And

46:06

that was based off of some tissue

46:09

damage around the neck. However,

46:12

they added that her head is missing,

46:14

so we can't factor that in

46:16

at this point. So after

46:19

processing the house, we still have Johnny's

46:21

BMW at the sheriff's office, and

46:24

nobody's doing anything with it because all

46:27

of our manpower is out dealing

46:29

with the house. The BMW's

46:31

secure, it's in our facility, like it's

46:33

not going anywhere. So they finally

46:35

get back to it a couple days later. And

46:38

as they're searching that, sitting on the floorboard

46:41

in a garbage bag inside of a, I

46:43

think it was like a Dorito bag, we

46:45

end up finding all of Stacy's

46:48

fingers.

46:48

On the floorboards of the BMW?

46:51

Correct. Oh boy.

46:52

I should also add that we also

46:54

had confirmed Stacy's identity

46:57

based off of her palm prints. By

46:59

that point, I had already identified her, but

47:01

they were able to confirm her identity through

47:04

those palm prints. So detectives

47:06

do try and go talk to Johnny at one point

47:08

up at the hospital. Johnny

47:11

decided to just kind of play games, ignored

47:13

anything they would ask, and say that

47:15

he was in a lot of pain, and he needed to

47:17

go to the bathroom, and all

47:20

these things. And so it just

47:22

got to the point where they just gave up. So

47:24

they leave. A few days later,

47:27

Johnny gets released from the hospital, and

47:29

he gets escorted by our deputies out to the

47:31

jail. And before getting lodged

47:33

into the jail, the detectives take another shot

47:35

at interviewing Johnny.

47:37

So this time, Johnny actually talks,

47:40

and Johnny's story is that

47:42

he had loaned his car to his friend,

47:45

Jeff, the original caller, and

47:48

that Jeff was supposed to be doing some work

47:50

on Johnny's car, and that

47:52

it must have been Jeff that parked the car there,

47:55

because Johnny didn't do it, and he hasn't

47:57

seen his car since he left it at Jeff's

47:59

place.

47:59

So Johnny's really trying to shift the

48:02

blame here on to Jeff

48:04

that Jeff's our guy.

48:06

So, of course, we do our due diligence.

48:08

We do some background on Jeff. We

48:11

talk to friends. Turns out Jeff was off

48:13

camping somewhere and

48:16

has several friends that

48:18

backed his story and everything else. So we're confident

48:20

Jeff's not our guy. And it's interesting.

48:22

This is just more work that detectives

48:25

have to do, because at trial,

48:28

the defense is going to be like, well, you

48:30

didn't even check into this guy. You didn't do this. You

48:33

do so much extra work just proving that

48:35

somebody didn't do something.

48:36

In addition to the work you've done to prove

48:39

that the suspect, in this case, it's Johnny,

48:42

did do something.

48:43

That is correct.

48:44

So that was pretty much Johnny's statement.

48:47

He ultimately ended up asking for an attorney

48:49

and that ended that interview. So one

48:52

of the leads that gets developed in

48:54

all of our interviews is that

48:57

a gentleman by the name of Henry may

48:59

be involved or may have

49:02

some information. So we send

49:04

some detectives out to go talk to Henry. Henry's

49:06

kind of a usual suspect for

49:09

us, kind of seems to find his way into a lot

49:11

of stuff. They go out, they

49:13

talk to Henry, and we learn from Henry that

49:15

Stacy is like a little sister

49:18

to Henry. He's very close

49:20

to her. They grew up together,

49:23

went to school together, have been very

49:25

tight growing up. Henry

49:27

was pretty shaken by

49:30

what had happened to Stacy. So, but what

49:32

Henry sheds to this story is

49:34

that he and his girlfriend

49:37

were hanging out at a casino one

49:39

night, which happens to be the same

49:41

night that Stacy had

49:43

checked into the motel and left. So

49:47

he says in the early morning hours, he

49:49

gets a call from Johnny. And Johnny's

49:52

asking for a favor. Henry also

49:55

grew up around Johnny, so they know

49:57

each other and they all went

49:59

to work. school together. So Johnny

50:02

asks Henry to come over to the house,

50:05

but he doesn't want Henry to pull up to the driveway.

50:07

He wants him to park at this park

50:09

behind the house, walk up through the green

50:12

space that runs up behind Johnny's house, and

50:15

come up to the house. Well, Henry

50:17

being savvy as he is, like, this

50:20

is weird and kind of gets the feeling

50:22

like he's getting set up. So

50:25

he says no, and finally Johnny

50:27

clues him in, like, look, I just want you to go and get

50:30

Stacy's stuff from the motel. She

50:32

left all her stuff there. Can you go

50:34

get her stuff from the motel room and

50:37

I'll pay you 50 bucks. Henry's

50:39

like, okay,

50:41

well, I need the money for gas. I'll

50:43

leave the 50 bucks under the doormat. So

50:46

Henry goes to Johnny's house. He

50:48

and his girlfriend go to Johnny's house. They

50:50

retrieve the 50 bucks from under the doormat.

50:53

They proceed to go play some video poker with it.

50:55

They don't get gas?

50:56

I don't know if they got gas or not, but they definitely

50:58

went to go play video poker. You can turn

51:00

your 50 into 3000 just

51:02

like that for investment purposes. So

51:06

Johnny had left the $50 and the room

51:08

key for Stacy's room

51:10

under the doormat. So Henry

51:12

and his girlfriend ultimately make it to the motel

51:15

room. Henry goes up to Stacy's

51:17

room and when he opens the door, he

51:19

sees that the receipt for the room

51:21

had been slid up underneath the door. And

51:25

she's got a couple bags there, which

51:26

he gathers up,

51:28

takes them down to the car. They

51:30

then tool around for

51:32

a few hours and finally

51:34

end up making their way back to Johnny's house

51:37

where they leave Stacy's belongings on the

51:39

front doorstep. And Johnny

51:42

had left him another 50 bucks underneath the doormat

51:45

as agreed upon. So Henry

51:47

gets 100 bucks basically to go and retrieve

51:50

Stacy's belongings from the motel room

51:52

and deliver them to Johnny's house. So that

51:54

was the extent really of Henry's involvement

51:57

in this.

51:58

We really questioned that. We looked into.

51:59

that intensely as

52:02

to whether Henry could actually be involved

52:05

in this, you know, whether it was the two of them or not.

52:07

We scoured that very thoroughly

52:10

and we don't see any link there whatsoever.

52:12

And this is yet another example

52:15

of all the work you have to do to run

52:17

down every lead because

52:20

we could assume Johnny killed Stacy from

52:22

what we know so far, but you have to convince

52:24

a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. Henry

52:27

could be a loose end. Jeff could be a

52:29

loose end. There's the unaccounted

52:31

for time when Stacy wanders

52:33

away from the motel after midnight and

52:35

isn't seen again. Brad and his detectives

52:38

have to show they've run down every possible

52:40

suspect and scenario.

52:42

Due diligence. Exactly.

52:44

So when forensics had searched

52:46

the car and they found Stacy's fingers,

52:49

well, they also found a receipt in the car for

52:52

a local store. And

52:54

on that receipt is the purchase of

52:56

a 51 inch bear and

52:59

lawn and leaf bags. So

53:02

detectives go out to the store and

53:05

obtain the store video. In that

53:07

video, you can clearly see Johnny walking

53:09

into the store, walking down the aisles,

53:13

and he grabs this bear and he

53:15

drags it around the store, goes

53:17

over, buys the lawn and leaf bags. And

53:20

it's funny because Johnny's wearing gloves this entire

53:22

time. And one way we

53:24

were able to bolster our idea

53:26

that this was Johnny is that the

53:28

sweatshirt he was wearing, when we went back

53:31

and looked at Johnny's last booking

53:33

photo in our jail, he's wearing the exact

53:35

same sweatshirt. Got the same design on

53:37

the front and everything.

53:38

Brad, when you say Johnny was wearing

53:40

gloves in the store dragging the bear around, are they

53:42

like surgical gloves or are they

53:45

winter gloves?

53:46

Well, we can't tell. They're black

53:48

gloves. They look like latex

53:50

gloves to me, but they could be maybe

53:53

like a leather glove or something. I'm not really sure.

53:55

You know, and it's interesting. I'm kind

53:58

of going over different.

55:39

and

56:01

they'll run afoul of a shady defense

56:03

attorney. Trust me, you don't

56:05

want to miss a minute of part two. In

56:07

the meantime, please stay safe out there. Remember,

56:11

you guys are the best fans in the podcast

56:13

universe, and we'll see you here next week for

56:16

the conclusion of No Such

56:19

Thing as Closure.

56:25

Small Town Dicks is produced by Gary

56:27

Scott and me, Yardley Smith. And

56:30

co-produced by detectives Dan and

56:32

Dave. Our production manager

56:34

is Logan Heftel. Our senior

56:36

editor is Sorin Vasion. And

56:39

our editor is Christina Bracamontes.

56:42

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56:44

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56:48

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56:51

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56:53

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56:57

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