0:00

Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. With the

0:02

price of just about everything going up during

0:04

inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down.

0:07

So to help us, we brought in a reverse

0:10

auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint

0:12

Mobile unlimited, premium wireless. How did you get

0:14

30-30? How did you get 30-30? How

0:16

did you get 30-30? How did you get 30-40? You bet you get

0:18

20-20, you bet you get 15-15, 15-15, just 15 bucks a month. Sold!

0:23

What if I can? kind of agreements prose type

0:25

of them? Please come on a new customers for limited

0:27

time community more than forty gigabytes per month floats, Culture

0:30

and that Mint mobile.com Tired of ads interrupting. Ads

0:41

shouldn't be the scariest thing about

0:43

true crime. Start listening by downloading

0:45

the Amazon Music app for free

0:47

or go to amazon.com/true crime ad

0:50

free. That's amazon.com/true crime ad free

0:52

to catch up on the latest

0:54

episodes without the ads. He's

1:02

not how fam it. Yardley, Welcome

1:04

back to Part Two and the

1:06

conclusion of Signs of a Serial

1:08

Killer let me catch up quickly.

1:10

From where we left off Empire

1:12

Line, a man named Sam has

1:15

called Nine One One to say

1:17

he thinks his neighbor Leroy is

1:19

in trouble. Homicide. Lieutenant

1:21

John arrived at the scene but

1:23

he doesn't see Leroy so he

1:25

goes into the house where he

1:27

just coverage Leroy, his girlfriend Sue.

1:29

They make entry into the house

1:32

and they see a female. Laying.

1:34

On the floor she is

1:36

bound with zip ties. Hands

1:39

behind her back she has

1:41

a plastic bag around her

1:43

face. They actually cut the

1:45

bag off of Sue. And

1:48

she spontaneously starts to bury. They

1:50

go into the garage and in

1:52

the garage they finally roy. Leroy.

1:55

Was pronounced deceased at the scene. A

1:58

block away from the house where. Attack occurred.

2:01

A man named Mark who has

2:03

blood all over his clothes is

2:05

having a chat with the sheriff's

2:07

deputy. Mark Want to get his

2:09

bicycle back from the front of

2:12

Leroy House but first the deputy

2:14

has questions about the blood on

2:16

Marks close. Meanwhile other officers near

2:18

the crime scene are talking to.

2:20

Sam says the guy who called

2:22

Nine One One. Marks.

2:25

As he was up here earlier riding

2:27

his bike and he crashed his bike,

2:29

that's why he's got some blood on

2:32

his pants in his hands. I don't

2:34

think Sam.all the way down to the

2:36

end of a walkway before Sam looked

2:38

up the street and said, That's.

2:40

The guy that was stand and

2:42

over Leroy. Obviously this

2:45

identification by Sam of Mars is

2:47

a problem for Mark. So police

2:49

put Mark in handcuffs, They find

2:51

out where he lives and go

2:54

to his apartment to make sure

2:56

nobody else is in danger or

2:58

deceased. Indeed, the apartment is empty.

3:01

If people that he does fall

3:03

as as it, it's. So.

3:05

We figured out where he was living.

3:08

If you were writing a story about

3:10

you know some kind of serial murderer

3:12

and what you might find his home.

3:14

What I saw in there with at

3:17

least scratches the surface and be the

3:19

kinds of things I would expect to

3:21

see in a Hollywood Moves. And

3:24

downs. One of my

3:26

neighbors casually approaches Lieutenant John

3:29

and dropped a bombshell. And

3:31

as I'm here this guy walks up.

3:33

He says is this anything to do

3:35

with the lady who died in their

3:37

three days ago? She's pointing at a

3:39

door that has nothing to do with

3:41

where we are. Hi

3:46

There I'm Yardley. I'm Dan on

3:48

days and I'm Paula. Hancocks.

3:51

Save and I are identical twins

3:54

and retired detective some small town

3:56

Usa and how much better prosecutor

3:58

who gets the golden sun? They

4:00

were using a revolutionary Dna tool. Between

4:02

at three of us, we've investigated thousands

4:04

of crimes for petty theft to sexual

4:06

assaults, child abuse to murder each case

4:08

recover his told by the detective who

4:11

investigated it, offering a rare personal account

4:13

of how they solve the crime, name's

4:15

places, and certain details at unchanged protect

4:17

the privacy of victims and their families.

4:19

And although we're aware that some of

4:21

our listeners may be familiar with these

4:23

cases, we ask you to please join

4:25

us to continuing to protect the true

4:28

identities of those involved out of respect.

4:30

For what they've been through, My

4:41

neighbor of March asks about another dead

4:43

woman three doors down in the same

4:45

apartment building where you guys are searching.

4:48

Deaths. And I know what

4:50

are you talking about and he said

4:53

well he doesn't have a woman who

4:55

lives in that apartment or lived in

4:57

an apartment and she passed away and

4:59

I think this was like a Friday

5:01

and he suggests he died in there

5:03

on Wednesday. I said okay I go

5:06

we see elderly. Was she sick? did

5:08

the police com and he said no

5:10

she was an elderly said she was

5:12

probably inner early to mid sixties. Very

5:14

consistent with all the women that have

5:17

him involved in. the thing about focus.

5:19

As to be wishy ill or was he

5:21

in horrible physical shape pretty goes know she

5:23

ran marathons and i bought okay so day

5:25

but he talk about what happened and so

5:28

they just found her dead in there as

5:30

okay the police came right exacerbated the white

5:32

van com you know in and take her

5:34

away and he said yeah as soon as

5:36

i did the corner and been there i

5:39

said okay a second your name real quick

5:41

and so i wrote his name down and

5:43

i said you know if i have courses

5:45

do you mind if I call you later

5:47

he goes no no. Absolutely did.

5:50

This neighbors max tell you the dead

5:52

woman's name. Her. Name was Lynn.

5:54

So I got back my car

5:56

and I called the morgue and

5:58

I thought to. Wild goose chase,

6:00

but there's a little weird and so

6:03

the more and closes at five. But

6:05

the Corners deputies that are on duty

6:07

be live in there during their twenty

6:09

four hour shifts and so I gotta

6:11

hold the one of the deputies that

6:13

I had dealt with a million times

6:15

and been to a million autopsies where

6:17

he'd done the corners deputy they're adapting

6:19

and Tim. And. I

6:22

said hates him I said i'm sorry to bother

6:24

Yeah, and I are used. Always clown those guys

6:26

little bit because they're done at five o'clock this

6:28

is by now nine o'clock at night and they're

6:30

sitting there with their footie pajamas in a in

6:32

a bowl ice cream of unassigned selves and so.

6:35

With a bunch of dead bodies Run behind.

6:37

What they say they have a living quarters. There's

6:39

else but it. You're right. it is kind of

6:41

a weird place to be. It's been in the

6:43

night when. You're serious. The more

6:45

deputies the land of more. When

6:48

they're on they're all night shift. It's

6:50

like a firehouse so they they have

6:53

with quarters in there are of says

6:55

there's the more gary other refrigerators. ah

6:57

there's the autopsy rooms and then there's

6:59

mistreat of area and then there's a

7:02

living quarters in there to. Never

7:04

heard is that have a separate French for their

7:06

snacks Now they put him in our with the

7:08

body. And your sleeping

7:10

at night? New here you hear a noise

7:13

that's gotta be a little weird as what

7:15

I said as aired sounds, refrigerators clicked on

7:17

or something. I'd have my gun on my

7:19

says. Yes,

7:24

I know Now. I'm also used

7:26

to tell me ghosts the ones that they're

7:28

vertebrate are they can hurt you or yeah,

7:30

I know that on a lateral Not admit

7:32

there's some part of me that doesn't absorb

7:34

the. God. I

7:37

wouldn't be able to do it and so I.

7:39

I said he i i need some info

7:41

I'm at this thing we got kind of

7:44

a big case role in and did you

7:46

guys happen to have a case out of

7:48

and I give the address Tim said ah

7:50

yeah he says actually I did the removal

7:52

and I said okay what can you tell

7:54

me about it in he said done it

7:57

may be natural it it's pending talks right

7:59

now the autopsy is over and because you're

8:01

not not a whole lot to it. And.

8:03

I said okay. Sir. Leonard

8:06

had her autopsy done.

8:09

Ten says they're waiting on

8:11

a pending tax That's a

8:13

toxicology screen. Correct Sobo autopsy itself.

8:15

The procedure was completed but nothing

8:18

jumped out From the physical assessment

8:20

of her body. there was no

8:22

indication of any trauma, there was

8:24

no indication of a heart attack

8:26

vascular congestion in those cases they

8:28

look for. So when they don't

8:30

see anything that would indicate what

8:32

her cause of death of be,

8:34

they put the talks outs in

8:36

a way. For the results of

8:38

the talks in it can end

8:40

up undetermined as a thousand deaths,

8:42

but in the interim what spending

8:44

is. Undetermined Pending talks.

8:47

And talks takes several weeks to come

8:49

back. It's not like it's two days

8:51

later via an even longer if we're

8:53

doing some counted you know deep talks

8:55

with done some of those and I

8:57

said did you photograph the scene. Yep!

9:00

A subtle cat semi i need to look

9:02

those pictures and he said no problem of

9:04

see in the morning Nast's any to come

9:06

by now. Now. Yeah,

9:09

but your robot? I'm okay. He puts

9:11

more. Emphasis of

9:13

I drove over there so we went

9:15

to the conference rooms. In he laid

9:18

it's like ten or twelve pictures out

9:20

I just I remember looking at the

9:22

photographs said he had taken at the

9:24

scene. In terms of very good corners

9:27

deputy worth a lot of death scenes

9:29

but anybody myself included you can miss

9:31

something and so I I looked at

9:33

the photographs laid out in I just

9:36

started. Hundred absorbing I'm

9:38

and I said. There's.

9:40

Something wrong here. There's something really wrong

9:42

here I said to my i don't

9:45

know for sure but I think disarm

9:47

aside and he said or still kinda

9:49

tell me it's a homicide from looking

9:51

at some pictures. Well number one I

9:53

said did she get manipulated at all

9:55

This is exactly the way we found

9:58

her. Sad, How did authorities. First

10:00

find out that limits dead. He

10:02

said for work and called. She never misses were

10:04

they thought it was unusual say try to college

10:06

was a as you so they asked us to

10:09

welfare checks Japanese did. They got a key to

10:11

the place when an attack and they found her

10:13

in there. I said no foreign ambulance now she's

10:15

obviously deceased ago. No. One

10:17

in all the years I've been doing this

10:19

nobody dies like this. When was supine she

10:22

had her up hands out either side with

10:24

like she just got now the shower she's

10:26

weren't a robe hair was in like a

10:28

perfect com crown around the back of her

10:30

head and I said tim this looks like

10:33

a stage crime scene to be immense. I

10:35

said nobody dies like that. A city die

10:37

in the heat you know they fall over

10:39

and their arms or in their legs are

10:41

cross. It'll go back like a tree and

10:44

I could see in the pitchers that there

10:46

were legates. your marks. Around. Her

10:48

wrists when did have

10:51

very clunky. Loose.

10:53

Bracelets on both rest and I said what

10:55

did the doc say about the marks from

10:58

the bracelet. Learn serious because

11:00

loose bracelets wouldn't. Make like

11:02

a tour. Marks correct Yes As a blitz

11:05

go I want to see are. Termed.

11:07

As. Mrs. Not here are just

11:10

released or to the funeral home and now

11:12

there's no no no no no no no

11:14

I see. Get on the phone, put a

11:16

hold on a water back as I need

11:18

to go tonight and a want some screw

11:20

up where they embalm her are you know

11:23

first thing in the morning? get when back

11:25

here. So I look more at the pictures

11:27

and the more I looked at the pitchers

11:29

I just in have a good feeling about

11:31

any of this. So I said Tim my

11:33

partner is gonna be in with me and

11:36

Raza. I may send him over here to

11:38

check the autopsy. As the labs gonna come

11:40

out on this we're gonna do a full

11:42

processing on when but just don't let the

11:45

doctor know that. Really need to look at

11:47

some stuff a little more thoroughly and so

11:49

that was a plan. So I less the

11:51

morgue and went back because now they had

11:54

completed writing that search warrant in, they were

11:56

in the apartment actually starting to search. So.

11:59

They're in March. Apartments The Remorse Apartment.

12:01

They were photographing everything. One of

12:03

the issues with the smaller agencies

12:05

is sometimes they don't have the

12:07

resources for crime scene processing to

12:09

use the county crime lab. It's

12:11

expensive. I can imagine what the

12:13

bill from the county crime lab

12:15

to the smaller agency would be.

12:17

For a big seen like this

12:19

and multiple autopsies, it would be

12:21

a lot of money, right? boss?

12:23

And be a lot of money.

12:25

Yes, Sir John when you

12:27

say that you, how can that

12:30

your got a new to get

12:32

the crime lab involved in lens

12:34

gas is now use Rescued her

12:37

from the funeral home and brought

12:39

her back to the Marks. Is

12:41

that Paul's. Crime. Lab. I can't

12:43

make that decision for the smaller agency

12:45

but and going to to my chief

12:47

they were trying to get the F

12:49

B I Crime Lab to handle the

12:51

house scene where Leroy ensue had been

12:54

and that would have been an expensive

12:56

endeavor in and of itself. The F

12:58

B I will do it for free.

13:00

The problem is the F B eyes

13:02

response times is sometimes twenty four to

13:04

thirty six hours before they can get

13:06

on. Seen just are people together and

13:08

process that seen in other was moisture

13:10

in the air. There were outdoor issues

13:12

there. Was a bicycle. There was the

13:14

gone. There was, you know, a lot

13:16

of things that needed to be photographed

13:18

and collected before them moisture started. Get

13:20

into. I'm right. So

13:22

are you at Max Apartment

13:24

now with them searching? Are you

13:27

actually Ryan says house? Not go

13:29

back to Marks apartment because they

13:31

had started searching. Why was.the more

13:33

looking for zip ties look for

13:35

zip ties and it's during season

13:37

act as we found packages of

13:40

the same zip ties as the

13:42

zip ties that were used at

13:44

Be Roy ensues house. Now this

13:46

is when I'm on seen ad

13:48

Marks apartment walking through the apartment

13:50

and like John had said when

13:52

he what in under the exigencies

13:54

and solve the weirdness. Now we

13:56

could spend some time and. Evaluate

13:59

Will what ago actually is

14:01

going on inside Marks apartment.

14:03

Mark had it several locations

14:05

aluminum foil tape down to

14:07

like desktop surfaces or countertop

14:09

surfaces with the aluminum foil

14:11

clipped into the grounding part

14:13

of the three Prague outlets.

14:16

And so now you start

14:18

to get into the psychology

14:20

of this offender. He obviously

14:22

had a mental aspect to

14:24

him and as he sitting

14:26

there doing various activities within

14:28

his apartment. He felt he

14:30

was building up an electric charge, said

14:33

he had to dissipate by touching the

14:35

so human of foil every now and

14:37

then. So this is an interesting aspect

14:39

about this offender and he also had

14:41

to do remember this John Mark in

14:43

his apartment had framed his latest sexually

14:46

transmitted disease venereal disease health cast up

14:48

on wall hanging in a higher for

14:50

Africa was in the living room or

14:52

his bedroom or something like that where

14:54

he could point to as a see

14:56

I'd been tested. Wow I think it

14:58

was in the living. Room. Evelyn

15:01

at night it is that test result

15:03

or possess. It was negative so I

15:05

don't have you know His idea was as

15:07

he could bring over his date said will

15:09

heal right away. Hey I'm Marcus here I

15:12

Mark I'm good You not going to get

15:14

a disease A sexy transmitted disease for me.

15:16

Well, at least not needy. They. You know

15:19

isn't the only is t. So.

15:39

You find zip ties and

15:41

Mark is obviously got a

15:43

narrative going on in his

15:45

head that is not like

15:47

most of ours with his

15:49

tinfoil and his antennas and

15:51

things might have a history

15:53

of violence and he known

15:55

to law enforcement. He had

15:57

a couple of very minor injuries on.

16:00

The criminal history. So now he was

16:02

not somebody who had multiple run ins

16:04

with law enforcement. He would get stopped

16:06

because he would be in different locations

16:08

and that helped us come to track

16:11

his movements a little bits Because you

16:13

can do what's called a D O

16:15

J offline search. Meaning even though you're

16:17

not arrested, heirs have police officer say

16:20

runs your name through the warrants database

16:22

or his driver's license. those kinds of

16:24

things we can see how many times

16:26

and were that happen but Mark and

16:28

no arrests and trees. And

16:31

while we were at Marks

16:33

Apartment, a woman approached one

16:36

of the investigators and said

16:38

that she had been sexually

16:40

assaulted by markets and this.

16:43

It occurred months before. I

16:45

think she's telling the truth and

16:47

her story is very believable but

16:49

I think she suffered from i

16:51

don't have mental illness really but

16:54

I think she suffered from some

16:56

horrible self esteem issues and so

16:58

see became friendly with Mark and

17:00

Mark invited her over to his

17:02

apartment and keep my that's the

17:04

place where he had the you

17:06

know the the Negative Sexually Transmitted

17:08

Disease report hanging on the wall.

17:10

He invite her over to watch

17:12

a movie and then he according

17:14

to her went. Into his bedroom

17:16

and came back out. It came

17:18

out with a hatchet. Oh.

17:21

My. God. And told her

17:23

he was going to sex with

17:25

her and proceeded to raper at

17:27

Hatchet Point. But.

17:29

Then she told Cm. You.

17:32

Don't need that. Had said. I'm okay

17:34

with what you're doing, so do we

17:36

have the elements of a forcible rape

17:38

There. And. That's why it was

17:41

not a great case, but that certainly

17:43

happened. And I think to the average

17:45

person one would think even if you

17:47

were planning on you know, having sex

17:50

with disguise. If Mark comes

17:52

out with a hatchet may be a

17:54

romance has gone hundred percent. On

17:56

rather not see normal

17:58

birthmarks with. Actually okay with

18:01

having sex with him as soon as

18:03

he brings a hatchet to the party.

18:05

All bets. Are off the think

18:07

the phrases courses in nature.

18:10

That's the phrase inherently. courses

18:12

to bring the hatchet to

18:14

sexual encounter. Yeah. That the

18:16

I mean the alternative argument easily

18:19

could be that survive instincts doing

18:21

well. Maybe he'll put it down

18:23

if I tell him and this

18:25

will be a problem It to

18:27

go either way. But I can

18:29

also understand how juries they're unpredictable.

18:32

And. Make decisions sometimes were site

18:34

debate here. the same trial that

18:36

I was sitting through gas like

18:39

us as useless in a really

18:41

dark place with her self worth

18:43

and I say she was extremely

18:45

pleased to have Mark pay attention

18:48

to her and fighter over in

18:50

a courtier. her unnecessarily involves of

18:52

hatchet into the equation. this also

18:54

as insight into Marks pathology into

18:56

his fantasy eating Grab a nice,

18:59

he don't grab a gun. He

19:01

purposely chose a hatchet. Which is

19:03

an awkward weapon. In

19:06

order to force a deck to have

19:08

sex with you and my understanding of

19:10

this relationship is probably prior to him

19:13

go into the bedroom and grabbing the

19:15

handset. You know she was cooperative in

19:17

terms of engaging with him whether there

19:20

was any physical aspects are not prior

19:22

to him grabbing the hatchets. So Marcus

19:24

fantasizing about a certain type of violence.

19:27

This is part of his experimentation. Marcus

19:29

thinking am I going to like this?

19:31

Am I going like the fear that

19:34

I see put on her face. And

19:36

Mark is. He is a

19:38

serial predator. He was a

19:40

budding serial killer app point

19:42

he was caught. If it

19:44

wasn't for Sam seeing Leroy

19:46

and Mark out in the

19:49

driveway and Marks got away.

19:51

I guarantee Mark is going

19:53

to have more victims so

19:55

lives were saved in this

19:57

instance. but Marks use of

19:59

the hatch it for me

20:01

as very telling about this

20:03

evolving mindset that Mark has.

20:05

He's. Experimenting and is trying

20:07

to determine. Is this use of

20:09

a hatchet in the sexual scenario

20:11

going to be something that he

20:14

would want to do in the

20:16

future because he gets gratification from

20:18

it in some capacity. Sir.

20:20

John, you learn about the Hatchet

20:22

incident within hours of soon Leroy

20:24

being attacked, their residents and now

20:27

you've got potential least three crime

20:29

scenes, right? You have one search

20:31

warrant seen, You have the neighbor

20:34

who has died of unknown causes

20:36

know you don't Leroy ensue and.

20:40

I imagine you're looking at your watch. Go

20:42

on. Ah, Probably going to be sleeping at

20:44

my desk tonight. Deaths? Yeah. So

20:47

I get back to Marks apartment

20:49

and. My Paul said there's a lot

20:52

of weirdness, but there's no law against

20:54

weirdness, right? Didn't you say

20:56

that you sound zip ties? It marks

20:58

apartments that match the ones that were

21:00

on sale. right? Zip ties exactly

21:02

the same length and style that were

21:05

used at the crime scene. a bit

21:07

zoo and now we raise our probably

21:09

going to require some help from Paul

21:11

in the lab to say that they

21:13

are physically a match to what we

21:15

find his apartment as black zip ties

21:17

look like black surprise to me but

21:19

there are some subtle differences. But. Then

21:21

we got down to a little more

21:23

of the nitty gritty about what they

21:25

were finding and one of the things

21:28

they found it is in the refrigerator

21:30

and this ended up being significant later

21:32

was what appeared to have been a

21:34

stolen bottle of Xylitol which is a

21:36

local anesthetic that when you go get

21:38

stitches are some don't know me up

21:40

can like a nova Came when you

21:42

get your teeth worked on and that's

21:44

not something you can buy at the

21:46

drugstore. It's not a controlled substance but

21:48

you have to in indeed an assassin

21:50

arena health. The Saudi. Cel Marcus

21:52

swipe this bottle as. As

21:55

I thought that would be the presumption

21:57

and there were some syringes there as

21:59

well. So as we're continuing to search

22:02

and they're actually search into the garbage,

22:04

the ford the garbage out onto a

22:06

tarp and gone through just to see

22:08

within their in and see if he

22:11

can find things like receipts to track

22:13

movement. But here's the most interesting aspect

22:15

of when they pull the liner out

22:18

of the garbage, can import the contents

22:20

out between the liner and the actual

22:22

plastic bucket or to zip ties that

22:24

have been used and cats and so.

22:27

They take those zip ties and they

22:29

send them to Paul and Paul. Let's

22:31

use our steal your thunder as we

22:33

wouldn't have any thunder of and hadn't

22:35

been for you guys. Are

22:38

you know at this point I'm no

22:40

longer with the lab? I'm with the

22:42

Da's office. Or that's right, the ass,

22:45

right? Aws out inside Marks apartments are

22:47

you had called me out and then

22:49

after the apartment. That's when we rolled

22:51

over the corridors after you had already

22:53

been out there. That's where I'm having

22:55

to talk to the captain over the

22:57

corners about. The findings of

22:59

the. Binding marks on Linz

23:02

Rest saying that is not consistent

23:04

with the bracelet that had been

23:06

put on her rest to hide

23:08

those binding marks. And I completely

23:10

agree with John that this is

23:12

not looking like a just a

23:14

natural death or some sort of

23:16

accidental. There's enough here, in my

23:18

opinion to justify wound being brought

23:20

back from the funeral home. Their

23:23

sensitivity to that because now the

23:25

family has their loved one and

23:27

now their loved one is being

23:29

taken away from them. Again, and

23:31

they're going. What the hell incompetence

23:33

is going on here? Her sprites

23:35

it. Also, when the zip ties

23:37

are found, this is where my

23:39

former employer the Serious Crime Labs.

23:41

they start doing the testing he

23:43

had our and of course it's

23:45

documenting the zip ties, the fact

23:47

that they're caught t other taking

23:49

measurements, but they're also going to

23:51

swab the zip ties and I'll

23:53

let John talk about what was

23:56

found on the zip ties. So.

23:58

After they did the testing I remember the

24:01

police department who was responsible for this case

24:03

called me and said at a we just

24:05

got the lab work back on the zip

24:07

ties from the garbage can a match the

24:10

dna from when. Our voice. Flexibility

24:24

is great off letters yoga flexibility

24:26

for. Flexibility is great. That's why there's yoga. Flexibility

24:28

for your insurance coverage is great

24:30

too. That's why there's UnitedHealthcare Insurance

24:33

Plans. Underwritten by Golden Rule Insurance

24:35

Company, UnitedHealthcare Insurance Plans offer flexible,

24:37

budget-friendly coverage for medical, vision, dental,

24:39

and more. One of these

24:42

plans may be right for you if

24:44

you're, say, between jobs, coming off your

24:46

parents' plan, turning a side hustle into

24:48

a full hustle, or even missed open

24:50

enrollment. Want more flexibility? Find out more

24:52

about UnitedHealthcare Insurance Plans at uh1.com. Though.

25:10

The Blue Nile Died com and use

25:13

promo code listen to get fifty dollars

25:15

off your purchase of five hundred dollars

25:17

or more. That's code Listen Had Blue

25:20

nile.com for fifty dollars off your purchase

25:22

Blue nile.com. Code Listen. The.

25:24

Valentine's Rushes here. A

25:29

small town Sam Spine time is all

25:31

about fresh air fresheners and freshly cleaned

25:33

out and it's the perfect time to

25:35

give a fresh look at Simpli Safe

25:37

Home Security. the only on security system

25:39

or use and recommend naturally is the

25:42

weather warms up we get more out.

25:44

Having Simpli Safe allows me to get

25:46

out of the house and explore while

25:48

maintaining peace of mind. I can hit

25:50

the golf course for an afternoon and

25:52

be confident that Simpli Safe has my

25:55

six back home. I get alerts and

25:57

directly to my phone inform. Me of

25:59

visitors on my. Property and Simpli Safe

26:01

Cameras and sensors allow me to monitor

26:03

conditions Twenty Four Seven on a

26:05

recent trip overseas or utilize Simpli Safe

26:08

to check for water leaks during an

26:10

extended ice storm and was even able

26:12

to use the camera system to

26:14

communicate with my neighbor regarding a mister

26:17

with repackaged convenience. Here's why

26:19

I love Simpli Safe. As trust

26:21

by experts, Simpli Safe was named

26:23

Best Home Security Systems Twenty Twenty

26:25

Four by Us News and World

26:27

Report and Newsweek. War does it's

26:29

best! Customer service and home security

26:31

system blankets your whole home and

26:33

protection and has sensors to detect

26:35

break ins, fires, floods and more.

26:37

Plus a variety of indoor and

26:39

outdoor care must keep watch over

26:41

your property day and night is

26:43

backed by Twenty Four Seven Professional

26:45

monitoring for less than one dollar

26:47

a day. Seeded. Fast emergency response and

26:49

dispense when you need it most. Simpli

26:52

Safe Professional monitoring agents can even help

26:54

stop crime in real time by speaking

26:56

to intruders through the wireless the Nor

26:58

camera warning them that they're being recorded

27:01

and police are on the way. With

27:03

no contract and a sixty day money

27:05

back guarantee, you can try Simpli Safe.

27:07

Risk free, Don't Absolutely love it. Sends

27:10

system back for a full refund. Simpli

27:12

Safe has given me and many of

27:14

our listeners real peace of mind. I

27:17

want you to have to. Get

27:19

twenty percent off your system

27:21

today when you sign up

27:23

for Fast Protect monitoring as

27:26

Simpli safe.com/small Town That Simpli

27:28

safe.com/small Town There's no safe

27:30

like. The

27:46

crime lab, sound lanes, dna on to

27:48

zip ties that you recovered from Marks

27:50

Apartments which is not dead for Mark.

27:53

And of course now I want to

27:55

know how Lane and Mark knew each

27:57

other. Yeah now the Is.

28:00

About that was we needed to

28:02

look more deeply into that what

28:04

was his relationship with her because

28:06

there was a lot of bizarre

28:08

stuff there. But Mark had some

28:10

kind of friendship acquaintance with Lin.

28:13

Said. They were just friends. The apps

28:15

Market Moon had at most a

28:17

casual friendship. The really? as a

28:19

result of being neighbors in the

28:22

same apartment complex. the only known

28:24

communication that we found was a

28:26

result of look it Up Mark

28:28

Cellphone Correct, Yeah and so they

28:30

knew each other. I see Mark

28:32

develop some can add fixation with

28:34

her in. Here's the really interesting

28:37

part about that's the day that

28:39

when doesn't show up for work

28:41

on Mark add some weird app

28:43

on his cellphone. What takes time to

28:45

get into those phones and then get

28:47

through all the files and are on

28:49

A but had this weird app on

28:51

his phone where it actually recorded his

28:53

calls emitter wave files onto his phone.

28:56

Mark. Is recording his car. His

28:58

own cause, Yes. And so when we

29:00

got into his phone, there's these wave

29:02

files and we play it back. And

29:04

one of the files on that wave

29:07

file list was a call to win

29:09

the morning she died. Mark. Calls

29:11

her up and tells her you

29:13

left your headlights on your car

29:15

and so the presumption there is

29:18

that that's how he got her

29:20

out of her apartment and then

29:22

walked out with her and then

29:24

probably did exactly what he did

29:26

to sue a Blitz Krieger and

29:28

took her back inside and killed

29:31

her. It's. Unfortunate for when that

29:33

she was murdered but how fortuitous that

29:35

and only happened a couple days before

29:37

this case that. John. Caught

29:39

if it happened. A

29:42

week prior you don't get all that

29:44

evidence, it's gone or even attack. I

29:46

was home right What? The neighbor who

29:48

said hey, a death happened in here

29:51

because that would have just been in

29:53

a me own undetermined cause of death

29:55

in the same city. It wouldn't necessarily

29:57

to win the made the link just

29:59

because or in the same complex. For

30:02

I wish I think would be so

30:04

hard on the family to. This is

30:06

the Corner says it's undetermined. You would

30:08

never feel like you had any need.

30:10

Closure as an overused word by. Take

30:12

my point. For like, no

30:14

resolution, Correct. Absolutely. Group. Now

30:17

we don't have a cause of

30:19

death, we have us undetermined pending

30:22

toxicology. So one of the things

30:24

that I talked to Paul about

30:26

and we talked to some other

30:28

m these and just so bunch

30:31

of different people kind of weighing

30:33

in on what we had and

30:35

what we have found the and

30:37

the pathologist agreed that the of

30:39

administered in a substantial enough quantity

30:42

and intramuscular. Leave or intravenously. That

30:44

Zile attained could cause a cardiac

30:46

events. So now we're going around

30:48

for the second. Autopsy.

30:51

On Port When and we found

30:53

two areas on her body that

30:55

appeared to be injection sites. Oh

30:58

wow, I easy mark mine's insect

31:00

in line with the silicone. Correct,

31:02

Yeah, And so the problem is

31:05

that zeiler chain would metabolize in

31:07

the body must like adrenaline and

31:09

so wouldn't necessarily be detectable even

31:11

in a deep talks. So we're

31:14

having a tough situation there. I

31:16

asked the pathologist and time as

31:18

and what if we excise the

31:20

tissue where the injection takes place.

31:23

Can we potentially finds out here

31:25

in he said there's a possibility

31:27

we could do that, so they

31:29

did do that, but the preservation

31:32

wasn't exactly. What the detox lab wanted

31:34

for that they were unable to perform the

31:36

test. It was a situation where we just

31:38

lost that evidence. Have to

31:40

say in setting someone with a

31:42

barely detectable anesthetic is a really

31:45

sophisticated way of killing them on

31:47

I wonder if he said mark

31:50

is that calculating. Mark.

31:52

Was somebody who had a

31:54

pathology a mental aspects but

31:56

was also smart enough to

31:58

start doing the deep. The

32:00

about how can I commit a

32:02

crime and get away with it

32:04

And one of the things it

32:06

Marks apartment. He was on a

32:08

bottom floor and he had a

32:10

porch outback or he had completely

32:12

covered the sports up both with

32:14

plywood and harping to hide it.

32:16

And then Mark had caught and

32:18

access door into the porch barrier

32:20

so he could slip in and

32:22

out of the apartment without being

32:24

seen as Mark went out as

32:26

front doors. Now you've got the

32:28

neighbors watching him now. He's possibly

32:31

going to be caught on video

32:33

camera. Marcus probably slipping in and

32:35

out of this access door that

32:37

he had made and the ports

32:39

and as prowling as Marcus trying

32:41

to formulate is methodology east commit

32:43

more crimes. Mark is also living

32:46

in his community and vulnerable people and

32:48

maybe he cites a potentially be. Easy

32:50

prey. Yeah. And. Will

32:53

to keep chose to live there. particularly

32:55

are ya intentionally from for victims but

32:57

I think other people there was problems

32:59

and so some of her developmentally disabled

33:02

and some of merge down on their

33:04

lock in a seats. Mark recognize that

33:06

there were some victims are more vulnerable

33:08

than others. Didn't Mark ever give a

33:10

reason as to why he killed Lynn? The.

33:13

Motive in least partially from limb

33:15

was that Mark store some shacks

33:17

from her. They're called a check

33:19

cashing company and he's on his

33:21

recorded phone. so he's calling spices

33:23

and he can. I can subjects

33:25

with just an Id you know

33:28

or whatever. Some crush me. How

33:30

does a took one of her

33:32

checks down there and actually Arabic

33:34

successfully gas it or tried to

33:36

guess? It's so. there was a

33:38

robbery component there. And. Mark

33:40

is leaving quite a trail

33:42

as evidence behind with is

33:44

recorded some cars and I

33:46

have assume that he would

33:49

sell the check out to

33:51

himself. Yes, yeah, I think he.

33:53

you know. He's. Using

33:55

those record in phone calls maybe

33:57

to gonna really have the experience.

34:00

Get her into the trap. Killer loan

34:02

out of the house about her head

34:04

lice and. Now. I'm really curious

34:06

about an interview with Mark. I

34:08

hate to let you down, it

34:10

did occur, but he was just

34:12

very vague and obstinate and would

34:14

never fully answer a question. He

34:16

pulled the old i have amnesia

34:18

I don't remember where I was

34:20

or what I would do it

34:22

at this juncture. My current takes

34:24

a while to get me really

34:26

wound up but I was pretty

34:28

wound up with him a couple

34:30

a times and I'll give one

34:32

aspects the ass mark what which

34:34

I. For lunch. At that point he

34:37

was just blanket we I don't remember

34:39

anything about on Mirage raised I don't

34:41

remember anything and see said a sandwich.

34:44

Any kind of sandwich just know shellfish.

34:46

I have an allergy to. Selfish after

34:48

carries an epic in with me everywhere

34:51

I go. And. I was like

34:53

is that right So I walk down

34:55

the hallway like jerk the door open

34:57

the tape is still running I said

34:59

states you sir remember you got a

35:01

selfless allergies or see I can remember

35:03

and raise you would you remember you

35:05

got a happy to sell his allergies

35:07

young women that juries gonna know you're

35:09

nothing but a god damn liar Not

35:11

been get very far with Mark as

35:13

he was just you know I guess

35:15

as uses obstinate said says no place

35:17

to go with those right like to

35:19

bring to I'm hey you know we

35:21

sound some stuff. In your apartment like

35:24

some zip ties that have been

35:26

clips. Those. Types of guys

35:28

you can put in from they are

35:30

okay by yeah, there's of times I

35:32

can confirm that what are they mean

35:35

to me exactly? Are they come up

35:37

with that? You know the stupid stuff

35:39

you seen about the blood red as

35:42

dragon my feet through someone's lawn and

35:44

that just must have picked up some

35:46

ambient blood set of everywhere. So you've

35:48

been in lots of rooms with suspects

35:51

for big crimes that get you decades

35:53

and prison and you've probably seen the

35:55

whole spectrum of this person's definitely. On

35:58

a difference in a crazy versus. This

36:00

person's very calculated but they've got

36:02

some texts vs completely sane whatever

36:05

were to smart, plan on that

36:07

spectrum for you as a great

36:09

question. So March is. I'm. Very.

36:12

Cunning and street smart.

36:15

Marcus. Just doors like Paul was

36:17

a to get out of his

36:19

apartment, be unseen, all it's He's

36:22

very, very criminally sophisticated, but when

36:24

it comes to things like. How

36:27

you would try to. Carve.

36:30

Your case or how you would try

36:32

to manipulate your case to make people

36:34

believe that maybe your unfit to stand

36:36

trial. Those kinds of things he's not

36:38

sophisticated see, does dumb things like get

36:40

on the phone and talk to his

36:42

sister and say all I need to

36:45

do is make him believe that I'm

36:47

this or that. Just for another

36:49

few months and I'm in the clear.

36:51

You know they're not going to be

36:53

a loser. prosecute me. I

36:55

think the last summer heard he's

36:57

at a lot facility and they're

36:59

still trying to determine whether or

37:01

not he is fit to stand

37:04

trial. And that's frustrating for us

37:06

because I recognize the sophistication, hair

37:08

and marks. Acknowledging the he knows

37:10

what he's doing is wrong, because

37:12

he's trying to hide it, is

37:15

trying to fail it as you

37:17

know, a natural desks and surprising

37:19

evidence, Those types of things show

37:21

a level of sophistication that for

37:23

us lay people I. Tend to

37:26

think of us is reasonable people

37:28

that could serve on a jury

37:30

without being excluded. I think. If.

37:33

I'm a juror and I hear

37:35

these types of details. I I

37:37

don't care what Mark looks like

37:39

the on the interview, I can

37:41

tell he knows the difference between

37:43

right and wrong. I can tell

37:45

that Mart was steaming trying to

37:47

avoid prosecution or detection. All these

37:49

things show me that he is

37:51

aware of what he's doing and.

37:54

It's. Frustrating to us. Will make a defense

37:56

attorney and a psychologist come in and say

37:59

you know that. Curses not competent and

38:01

you're like, wow, you want to

38:03

let him out, see what happens.

38:05

There's a cost. To. You guys

38:08

making those types of determinations. From

38:10

the very beginning, Mark recognized how

38:12

com and blood on his clothing

38:14

need to be, explains their kind

38:16

of crazy explanations be does recognize

38:19

the difference. He recognizes the difference

38:21

when you're certainly from right, wrong,

38:35

A small town Sam Springtime is

38:38

all about fresh air, fresh starts

38:40

and freshly cleaned house. And it's

38:42

the perfect time to give a

38:44

fresh look at Simpli Safe Home

38:46

Security the only own security system

38:48

or use and recommend. Naturally,

38:50

Is the weather warms up? we get

38:52

more Aren't having Simpli Safe allows me

38:54

to get out of the house and

38:56

explore while maintaining peace of mind. I

38:58

can hit the golf course for an

39:00

afternoon and be confident that Simpli Safe

39:02

has my six back home. I get

39:04

alerts and to rec to my phone

39:06

informing me of visitors on my property

39:08

and Simpli Safe Cameras and sensors allow

39:10

me to monitor conditions twenty Four seven.

39:12

on a recent trip overseas or utilize

39:14

Simpli Safe to check for water leaks

39:16

during an extended ice storm. was even

39:18

able to use the. Camera system

39:20

to communicate with my neighbor

39:23

regarding Mister Oliver package Convenience.

39:25

Here's why: less. Stressed

39:28

by experts Simpli. Safe was

39:30

named Best Home Security Systems Twenty

39:32

Twenty Four by Us News World

39:34

Report and Newsweek award as it's

39:36

best customer service and home security

39:38

system. blankets or whole home and

39:40

protection and has sensors to detect

39:42

break ins, fires, slugs and more.

39:44

plus a variety of indoor and

39:46

outdoor cameras to keep watch over

39:48

your property day and night is

39:50

backed by Twenty Four Seven professional

39:52

monitoring for less than one dollar

39:54

a day, so you get fast

39:56

emergency response of dispatch when you

39:58

need it most. Simply. Professional monitoring

40:00

agents can even help stop crime in

40:03

real time. I speaking to intruders through

40:05

the wireless the Nor camera warning them

40:07

that they're being recorded and police are

40:09

on the way. With no contract and

40:11

a sixty day money back guarantee you

40:13

can try Simpli Safe. Risk free, don't

40:16

absolutely love it. Sends system that for

40:18

a full refund Simpli Safe has given

40:20

me and many of our listeners real

40:22

peace of mind. I want you to

40:24

have to get twenty percent off your

40:27

system today when you sign up for

40:29

fast Protect monitoring. As Simpli

40:31

safe.com/small Town That

40:33

Simpli safe.com/small Town

40:35

There's no Safe

40:37

Likes. Everything

40:59

from 1-800-Flowers is made with love, every

41:01

step of the way. Because we know

41:03

that nothing is more important than delivering

41:05

a smile. To learn more, visit 1800flowers.com/ACAST.

41:09

That's 1800flowers.com

41:12

slash ACAST. John,

41:24

What are you able to charge

41:27

Mark last? does he get charged

41:29

with two murders for letting me

41:31

Ryan, then the attempted homicide for

41:33

what he did tissue. Correct.

41:35

Yeah, he was charged with the

41:37

two homicides and then the attempt

41:39

murder of Sue. You say?

41:42

hasn't gone to trial yet because they

41:44

can't decide whether or not he's competent

41:46

to stand trial. So he's not

41:48

trying to plead not guilty by

41:51

reason of insanity. Marxist T is

41:53

incompetent and he's you know, been

41:55

able to hoodwink some defence expert

41:57

into believing that he does. Appreciate

42:00

the wrong fullness of what he did

42:02

in that he doesn't understand the process

42:05

about what is happening with him. The

42:07

have to understand that are being put

42:09

on trial for what they did in

42:11

that it's a consequence to what they

42:14

did and so that's the standard. Even

42:16

are you has. He had jailhouse

42:18

recording since March phone to his sister.

42:20

All I need to do is pull

42:23

the wool over their eyes for a

42:25

few more months. That's Matt Stone Cold

42:27

Evidence. That is the frustrating part.

42:29

From our perspective is that certain

42:32

folks who are involved in the

42:34

process conveniently ignore things like that.

42:37

They think it's a one off,

42:40

but I think to reasonable people

42:42

we look at that we say

42:44

Mark is clearly confident, he clearly

42:46

understands what's going on, and he

42:48

is saying whatever mental ailments that

42:50

he's trying to persuade of the

42:52

court. Yeah, and I've had.

42:54

I don't know how many, but

42:57

lots of descendants get. You know

42:59

their psyche vowels and you get

43:01

those back. and you get these

43:03

sensors like this defendant to not

43:05

appreciate the circumstances there and those

43:07

types of things. And I'm always

43:09

like whoa, I mean can we

43:11

at least a sign a few

43:13

points on this scale To: is

43:15

this guy likely to move winger

43:17

or as he you know, basically

43:20

I'm gonna play the game ominous

43:22

feel this test on purpose because.

43:24

The cost for me is I

43:26

go to prison for life so

43:28

I'm hoping to lesson that so

43:30

it's biased and the suspect controls

43:32

the bias of the test by

43:34

how the answer. So there are

43:36

ways to get around these things

43:38

and to hoodwink experts who are

43:40

like, oh, now he can help,

43:42

He doesn't even know a planet

43:44

he's on and a rebuttal from

43:47

the prosecution is always full. Here's

43:49

this jail tape. Here's the sophistication

43:51

of the crime scene. It wins

43:53

and. Then days later more sophistication

43:55

as another crime scene except Mark

43:57

was interrupted. any didn't plan. That

44:00

now Marks got explanations for the F

44:02

T O in his trainee. There's all

44:04

this stuff that the prosecutor to bring

44:07

back in and rebuttal to overcome the

44:09

unreasonableness the receive coming from defense attorneys

44:11

and they're experts and to underscore. I've

44:14

been retired. Go! I got six years

44:16

and this case happened several years before

44:18

retired. What year did this happen and

44:21

it was still twenty sustains as who

44:23

are in. This is now. Going.

44:25

On nine years I thought there

44:27

was a conviction and Marcus hold

44:29

up and then one of the

44:32

presidency but know he's he's still

44:34

play the game. Nine years in

44:36

there so charges are filed. Mark

44:38

is in custody and John did

44:40

you get involved in the the

44:42

incident at the jail with Mark?

44:44

I did not because I was

44:46

internal. the sheriff's office handled it

44:48

but I'm familiar with a. Now.

44:50

Don't you can overdo if you're

44:53

if you're comfortable. talk about that

44:55

area. So don't get me wrong

44:57

when I'm talking about some of

44:59

the idiocy and associated with Mark

45:01

statements is a very cunning, very

45:03

dangerous individuals and like cities in

45:05

good physical condition in So he

45:07

was house across the street from

45:09

where I am right now at

45:12

the jail and he was on

45:14

a module. What's a module? Like

45:16

a cell blocks yeah, he

45:18

was restricted access some marches

45:20

intentionally sort of suffering and

45:22

right. So. Mark is

45:25

in custody. It's two deputies to

45:27

open a cell, not one single

45:29

deputy. Mark. Enticed a

45:31

female deputy to open the

45:33

door for some purpose and

45:35

see did that alone. And

45:37

when she did that, he

45:39

actually overpowered her and dragged

45:41

her to another area of

45:43

the cellblocks to a utility

45:45

closet, pulled her inside utility

45:48

closet with him and at

45:50

that point she thought he

45:52

was going to killer he

45:54

had complete control over she

45:56

was yelling. Some deputies heard

45:58

that. Those Japanese figure it

46:00

out something was going on. went

46:02

there in fried her. Wow Damn.

46:05

I think the plan was. Mark.

46:07

Was going to use her as a hostage.

46:09

ever opened the door so you get out

46:11

of jail? Cell. Mark

46:13

is locked up that he has

46:15

not going to trial for these

46:17

two murders. I always think

46:20

about the families. this frustrations just

46:22

must pull your hair out. The

46:24

families are understandably beside themselves, but

46:27

in this particular case, you know

46:29

you think you have all this

46:31

great physical evidence and your think

46:34

we've got this guy and he's

46:36

just playing this game about. I

46:38

don't understand what I did was

46:41

wrong. Ah worst nightmare scenario.

46:43

I just think it goes back

46:45

to let you all have sad

46:47

time and time again and battles

46:50

year at the mercy of whoever

46:52

gets your case. from detectives to

46:54

prosecutors and all you can do

46:56

is hope that you that be.

46:59

A Team. Yep! Exactly.

47:01

I'm serious as I listen to this

47:04

case and mark. Is.

47:07

As much as he is a predator, he is

47:09

a serial liar. right? Not a

47:11

great one by yeah. Not. A good

47:13

one but for all as you

47:15

down days paw and John so

47:18

much as job is every single

47:20

day somebody is gonna lie to

47:22

you on the do it over

47:25

and over and over and over

47:27

And my question is how does

47:29

that color years use the world

47:31

And do you remember a time

47:34

before you became a police officer

47:36

that. People. Didn't lie to you every

47:38

day you never what you were like that then.

47:42

He knows when my wife said to me recently

47:44

says when I first met to your such a

47:46

nice boy. Houses

47:50

are from the pound, brickhouse thou

47:52

or a long, long time without

47:54

a effect when he asked that

47:56

your because I've literally talked to

47:58

people who are. Not even necessarily

48:00

mean I'm is a major criminal but just

48:02

so he who's up to no good and

48:05

need some aspect of a case may be

48:07

or something in. I remember one time this

48:09

one particular one was lion to be about

48:11

something and I said you're lying in you're

48:13

lying about some the you don't even need

48:15

a lie about what is the purpose of

48:17

line about this and this individual stocks you

48:19

Flat out said i don't know metics always

48:21

lie when talk to police. Even.

48:23

About stuff that's in consequence

48:25

of of spits completely. meanings.

48:28

How does it calorie? or view of

48:30

the world even when you're. You

48:32

know, with family on a

48:34

holiday or you're out with

48:36

your friends out since it's

48:38

not color everything around you.

48:41

Yeah, I'm hopeful you don't let it

48:43

get to a point where you're not

48:45

fun to be around anymore for that.

48:47

The my wife's com and there and

48:49

I was little. I was I wrong

48:51

guy or that exactly. But yeah, I

48:53

mean you hear people telling a story

48:55

to some innocuous story C O and

48:57

everybody and Palaces is is listen to

48:59

me like that. That's a lie is

49:01

and it's been. I think about it

49:03

off and on. My God, that's you.

49:05

Think I don't have a well honed

49:07

bullshit matter of I'd try me if

49:09

or know it's. Why I can look at

49:12

certain things and I'm like. The. Light

49:14

hasn't come on for you yet. You still believe

49:16

in people? Yep, that's a great way of putting

49:18

it. Absolutely. Yeah, you saw some faith and people

49:20

new cops are gives them as was I will

49:22

ring that at ease. This

49:25

case in particular is a good example

49:27

of this. You've got an F T

49:29

O with his recruit and Mark is

49:31

planned the name game with. The. Recruit.

49:35

And the recruit probably doesn't even realize it. Then

49:37

you've got the F T O comes over and.

49:39

And. Steps you know the old was one.

49:42

Again, the bullshit. Meter your bandwidth

49:44

for bullshit. Is. Completely

49:47

changed when you become a police officer

49:49

and as you progress through your career,

49:54

It takes you less and less time to

49:56

know that someone is lying to you. Oh

50:00

I say. My Wednesday never looks

50:02

like any of yards Wednesday Ever.

50:04

Not Ever. And nor will it

50:06

ever. And it

50:09

is the most unusual, extraordinarily

50:11

constantly stressful, but also I'm

50:13

sure incredibly rewarding procession. and

50:16

the ones who do it

50:18

well and do it right

50:21

always consider it a. Calling

50:23

and it's clear that your.

50:26

Present. Club June so thank

50:28

you for that. Thank you so

50:30

much for joining us some sure

50:32

everybody here has had very similar

50:34

experiences with cases of these works.

50:36

Sometimes things just fall into place

50:39

and sometimes they don't. Yeah.

50:42

But. I do feel like you know

50:44

one thing so fall into place for

50:46

me. When when I used to got

50:48

on addition I didn't get the job.

50:50

Nothing really bad happens. I didn't get

50:52

the job. I'm terribly disappointed with the

50:54

world as such as when she doesn't

50:56

fall into place for you guys, the

50:58

ripple effect can be enormous. Yeah.

51:01

A chance. I just want to

51:03

point out the witness that came

51:05

forward at Marks Apartment Complex. The

51:07

guy who oppress John about limbs, death, Yeah,

51:10

I think it would have been very

51:12

easy for a lot of cops to

51:14

just go a basically mind your business.

51:16

oh thanks, thanks for your info. Ah,

51:19

let's you know if I need anything

51:21

but John. you ask more questions and

51:23

that's really our job is to ask

51:25

more questions and investigate. That's what we're

51:27

supposed to do and I think it's

51:29

really important that we point those things

51:31

out. Yeah, thank you very much for

51:33

that. Appreciate Debris was there. is it

51:36

or jog. We've had amazing guess on

51:38

the show and listen to them talk.

51:40

About their careers in the work they've

51:42

done, you know it's obvious these guess

51:44

are very dedicated. This is one of

51:46

the few instances where I've seen that

51:48

dedication and that expertise first hand. So

51:50

thank you for taking the time and

51:52

recording with us baseball. Don't forget half

51:54

of what I know you taught me.

51:56

So. Sad

51:59

at below Both went on there you

52:01

go, We swapped information back and forth.

52:03

Mets are assessed. We are honored to

52:05

have you and greatly appreciate you. Coming

52:08

on I'll say yes. Very very very

52:10

nice he goes. Thank you. Is

52:25

produced. And.

52:29

I senior editors are Invasion and

52:31

our editors are. The

52:37

real. Or

52:40

is what could have producers and

52:43

less than half park is it

52:45

or production manager or bookstore. Foods

52:47

and flops run censoring well and

52:49

our social media amazing. Of the

52:51

money. He would make

52:53

our die if he became a member

52:56

of our small farm farm by following

52:58

us on Facebook, instagram. On

53:00

you tube off. Ah smart

53:02

read love hearing from there.

53:08

Was composed by John for. If

53:12

you'd like to support the

53:14

making of is hop on

53:16

Our history on.com/small farm that's.

53:19

Fair for a small subscription.

53:21

Fee he. He

53:24

he he get anywhere

53:26

between. Stuff

53:30

is the sound on our

53:32

website. My. Mouth

53:38

and this is an Audio

53:40

Ninety Nine production. Smartass and. From

53:43

us. I

54:05

favorite is Yardley. What if I

54:07

told you you could listen to

54:09

the first four episodes of the

54:12

season? Right this minute, all you

54:14

have to do is join Patriot

54:16

for a small five dollar monthly

54:19

donation. Once a member, you'll not

54:21

only be supporting us as we

54:23

searched for the best real crime

54:26

cases from small town Usa, it

54:28

you'll also get fantastic special content

54:31

like Q and with your favorite

54:33

house. Detectives Dan and Dave.

54:35

And sometimes even Paul holes

54:38

and you'll get every episode

54:40

early. And ad free. Cell

54:43

Go to paythreeon.com/marchand

54:45

X Podcasts We'd

54:47

love to see

54:49

you there. Thank

54:51

you.