0:06

Hi, I'm John Goodman, grizzled show

0:08

business veteran, and you're listening to

0:10

Smartless. I

0:30

was almost still just a little bit late today

0:32

because I may have just

0:34

had like one of my one of my first

0:36

sessions, definitely first

0:39

half dozen. Can't count

0:41

them on one hand the amount of times

0:43

I've gone on Instagram. You guys familiar with

0:46

this? Yes, I've heard of this. Oh my

0:48

God, this is so good. This is my

0:50

dream. That's true. You describing Instagram. So yes,

0:52

so I'm looking, watching a

0:54

video on it, right? A small, it's

0:56

a small. Keep going, keep

0:58

going. Funny stuff is happening. People

1:00

are falling and hurting themselves. And

1:04

and then I have my

1:06

thumb accidentally hit screen and it disappears,

1:09

goes up and there's another one right underneath

1:11

it. That's right. Yeah, it's similar. But then

1:13

I don't know. So I did it again

1:15

and then I'm like, then it's like some

1:17

sort of a sports thing and then someone's

1:19

selling me something. Anyway,

1:22

I don't think it's instant, Instamatic

1:24

or instantaneous. I think

1:26

it's instagram. Instagram. And

1:28

you don't usually go on my suppose. What is

1:30

it? You don't usually go. What

1:33

is it? Can I just, is this,

1:35

was that just you? Was that just

1:37

you describing using Instagram? Yeah,

1:40

I think so. You know what I'm talking

1:42

about. You've been there. So you really don't.

1:44

We're not alone. You don't usually go on

1:46

there. Jason. No, but I get it now.

1:49

You can sit there and I did what

1:51

I thought was going to be five minutes

1:53

and all of a sudden my alarm

1:55

went off to get to the computer to start this. I

1:58

was like, oh, fuck. Good thing that's right. It's

2:00

the demise of our whole institution.

2:02

It's everything. Now, Sean and I

2:04

send each other videos that we think are

2:06

funny. Yes. Yes. And it's really easy to do. And

2:09

that's the only way to communicate. Oh, so if I

2:11

see something on Instagram that I like, I could sort

2:13

of like send that to you. There's like a little,

2:15

little thing I can click on there and you're going

2:17

to hit it. And then if you're, if we're all

2:19

following each other, you can send it to one of

2:21

us. And then we go like, ah, that's so funny.

2:24

Cause it's true or whatever. Right.

2:26

Or yeah. Or saw it.

2:29

Thanks old man. Yeah. Yeah.

2:31

Wait, so now we can send you videos and you'll

2:34

actually watch them. Yes. I think

2:36

I will. I might not. Oh, but

2:38

you know what I don't do is if you send

2:40

me a video that when I click on it says,

2:42

Oh, the person whose video this is, we'll know that

2:44

you are watching it. Then I don't

2:46

click on those. What does that mean? Does that mean the

2:48

person's a private? Nobody knows. Nobody knows what you're looking at

2:50

unless you like it. No. Like

2:52

when, when Amanda sends me something and, and, and

2:54

I got to click, I have to say that

2:56

it's, they're going to see that it's, no, that's

2:59

just a phone call. Oh, I

3:03

don't know. But this is, listen, this stuff, and

3:05

it's all here on one of these. You guys have one of these phones.

3:08

This is a, with the pictures on the front of it.

3:11

This is the beginning of the end. Cause

3:15

I just got rid of the one that closes, you

3:17

know, it kind of

3:19

looks like a Pac-Man. Yeah. By the way, this is our,

3:22

our generation equivalent of when our dad

3:24

used to say, I saw this thing

3:26

in the paper today on the

3:29

TV. Right. That

3:33

was a picture of maple and I saw

3:35

her for her birthday. I saw maple last

3:37

night. Yeah. She just turned 12. I know.

3:42

Scotty and I got her some beads that she can wear

3:44

in her wrist and we got her a little leather bound

3:47

thing that she can draw in cause

3:49

she's such a good drawer. She's incredible.

3:51

She's amazing. She's amazing. And, and an

3:53

incredible athlete. Yes. She's so good.

3:55

She's been kicking ass. They beat, they beat another

3:58

big team. You know that you were there. at

4:00

the game. She told me who they beat the other

4:02

night. I was like, no way. No, I know. It's

4:04

crazy. I did. I already bore you. It was the

4:07

Boston Celtics. Um, yeah. So

4:09

she's in sixth grade and she plays on the

4:11

boys team because she has such a bad ass.

4:13

It's the first time in the history of the

4:15

school. Yeah. That a girl's ever played on the

4:17

bus. She's so rad. I know. I just, I

4:20

love her. It's a wild Jason. It's nighttime. It's

4:22

seven o'clock. Are you, you're getting sleepy or, um,

4:24

just about, uh, you know, had a long day

4:26

of work, but now, but this is, this is

4:29

the highlight of my day. Look at you.

4:31

You know, please don't don't fuck it up

4:33

with a shit guest. Arnette. You know what?

4:35

If this is a terrible, let's just end

4:37

it here. I can't wait. I'm

4:39

so glad I can't wait for you to eat

4:41

this shit. You're eating these words. You're, you're moments

4:44

away from eating. You're going to be so embarrassed.

4:46

If you're going to be better, be good. You're

4:48

going to bow down to the power of this

4:50

dude because one of these first, dad

4:53

joke first, and then we're going to make him

4:55

bow down. One dad joke. Go ahead. You long

4:58

already. I can't find my gone in 60 seconds.

5:00

DVD. It was here a

5:02

minute ago. Okay. All right. So here

5:04

we go. We wasted this

5:06

person's time and he deserves so

5:08

much more respect than that. Well, we'll

5:10

see. And Jason, I'm so sad

5:12

because this

5:14

is a guy who's been doing it for a

5:17

long time at the highest level. He's

5:19

been nominated for, I think he's won an Emmy,

5:22

won nominated for seven times golden globe, nominated four

5:24

times. Like every has been just nominated and one

5:26

is apologize now. No, no, no, no, no.

5:29

Cause you're going to eat shit. But more than

5:31

that, cause I don't even

5:33

want to get into his credits cause

5:35

they're all the greatest funniest, amazing movies,

5:37

not just funny, but also but dramatic,

5:39

but like really until you're

5:42

fired up to influence on my life.

5:44

And you guys know, because I have

5:46

on the show used them

5:48

consistently as the gold

5:50

standard. I talk about people being, being

5:53

okay, being in bad movies, but always

5:55

being good. And I, he is always my example. As

5:57

you guys know of the guy who's never turned into

5:59

bad. performance. And

6:03

one of the things that I love about him

6:05

most that he, that he and I have in

6:07

common is, is that is the

6:09

line when he said you guys lost to a bunch

6:11

of fucking nerds guys. It's the all time champ for

6:13

me is John Goodman. Oh,

6:16

I'm so sorry. Mr. Goodman. Hi,

6:18

fellas. I

6:22

can't follow that. Johnny

6:25

Goodman. Well done. By the way,

6:27

every word he just said is

6:29

true. Every single thing you've ever

6:31

done is phenomenal. I agree. Every

6:33

performance you've had a done. Yeah.

6:37

And always associated with good. He does reference

6:39

you quite a bit as the bar to

6:42

jump over. Yeah, it is true. John, at

6:44

risk of embarrassing you further, what a pleasure

6:46

to meet you and thank you for coming

6:48

in and doing this and joining us. My

6:50

pleasure. Thank you. It's America's favorite podcast. Thank

6:53

you for welcome. Welcome to your pod. Well,

6:55

I do. I do use that you often

7:01

and I'm sorry, again, at risk of embarrassing

7:03

you as the, the, the sort of the,

7:05

the gold standard of someone who's always good,

7:08

never turns into bad performance. Um, and

7:10

I've been such a fan of yours for such

7:12

a long time and you've done so many different

7:14

things and you've crossed, you've done

7:16

comedy in, you know, you've done

7:18

sitcoms, multiple really fantastic sitcoms like

7:20

the old school standard light, like

7:22

multi-cams, like with an audience that

7:24

is just, and to do that,

7:26

pull it off. Well, sorry, Sean,

7:29

uh, to pull it off. Well, uh, best

7:33

job in the world, the best job in the

7:35

world. But then you've had an incredible career in

7:38

film, but you started in theater

7:40

is where I'm driving at. Oh, here comes, this

7:43

is where Will and

7:45

I just sit back. So I want to hear

7:47

about how, what that start was like for you,

7:49

Mr. Goodman, because I don't know this story and

7:51

how you got in what, what that, what

7:54

your journey was. I had

7:56

nowhere else to go. Next

7:58

question. I sabotaged

8:01

my own education. The only time I got

8:03

lit up was doing

8:05

plays and I

8:08

decided to make that my major since I

8:10

was inches from being thrown out of school.

8:13

Uh, and everything took

8:15

off after that. And

8:18

as soon as I found out

8:20

how wonderful it can

8:23

be, uh, then I started to

8:25

want to learn, uh, history,

8:28

English, whatever I needed to, uh,

8:31

pull out of my bag of tricks when

8:33

performing a role. Oh, wow. So that

8:35

you could stay in school and stay a part

8:37

of the theater department. Yeah. Oh,

8:40

wow. Yeah. So where was that? Where

8:43

was that? That you see you were in

8:45

school. Were you, were you in Missouri? Is

8:47

that right? It was called Southwest Missouri state

8:49

university. Now it's called Missouri state university. But

8:52

then you moved to New York. Is that

8:54

true? Is that how that is? True. That

8:56

took the Amtrak from St. Louis to New

8:58

York in August

9:01

of 1975. Holy

9:03

shit. And did

9:05

you have, did you have a destiny other than the city?

9:08

Were you like, I'm going to go do this? I'm going

9:10

to, or were you just like, I'm just, I'm

9:12

rolling a dice here. I was a frightened hick.

9:15

Uh, the main thing I wanted to do

9:17

was take classes with

9:19

Uta Hagen and get into

9:22

the actor's studio and, uh, learn

9:25

some more. And did you,

9:27

did you get in there? I did not.

9:29

I left about month and

9:31

a half later doing a dinner

9:34

theater, non-equity dinner theater version of 1776.

9:38

What dinner theater? The La

9:40

Commedia dinner play house in Springborough,

9:42

Ohio. I worked at Spess

9:44

and Run dinner theater in St. Charles,

9:46

Illinois. Oh, okay. Yeah.

9:49

Which I just found out, um,

9:51

Ben Stiller's parents did summer stock

9:53

there. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Summer

9:55

chicken stock, I guess. Cause there

9:57

we go. You guys. So dinner

9:59

theater. is what it sounds like.

10:01

Correct. You sit there, your, your tables, did

10:03

they serve you the whole thing while the

10:05

play's going on and the, the actors are

10:07

there. They make noise. Yeah. Oh,

10:10

you got the glasses clanking the

10:12

forks. People get lit. Yeah. Getting

10:14

lit and, and, and whistling the,

10:16

the waiter over because the shit's

10:19

not right. And, uh, and

10:21

they put, they put the tables right

10:23

up to the edge of the stage.

10:25

So then I was playing a Tommy

10:27

G listen to music man. And

10:29

I was doing something fell right on

10:32

top of the, one of the tables

10:34

and how to keep going. It was

10:36

so ridiculous. Just living your dream with

10:38

a bunch of pasta sauce in your

10:40

pants. My buddy hack it. And

10:43

was there ever a time where you're on stage and you're

10:45

like, Oh man, that smells pretty good. Well,

10:48

I couldn't get hired for

10:50

their next shows, but my

10:52

girlfriend, so I went down

10:54

there just to get out of New

10:56

York and work as a waiter in the dinner

10:58

theater for the

11:00

summer. But I cut the grass. I

11:03

did all kinds of odd jobs and, and

11:06

made enough money to pay off my student

11:08

loans that summer. Wow. So,

11:11

sorry, Sean. So I, New York was a

11:13

total wipeout. And so you, not

11:16

at all. I just, I left, uh,

11:19

it was a horrible winter

11:22

and I was broke and, uh, I

11:24

couldn't, I couldn't get arrested as a, as

11:26

a waiter or anything else.

11:29

I got one night's work

11:31

as a bouncer and a club

11:33

called the Adams apple. And

11:35

they had this German head bouncer who was telling

11:37

us how to rip guys mouth open. Uh, when

11:39

you got their head down on the curve and

11:41

then you stop the back of their head and

11:43

their teeth come out. I

11:46

said, check please. Yeah.

11:48

I did. I had to show up the next day. So

11:50

then where did you go at that? That's the only job

11:52

I had in the city. So then,

11:54

so then, so what does, then it does sound like

11:56

New York was kind of, it wasn't really bearing a

11:59

lot of fruit that. It was also at

12:01

the time it was Ford

12:04

to city drop dead. They

12:06

were defaulting on their loans. The

12:09

city was just going to hell. The

12:12

subways were terrifying. You know, the

12:14

graffiti, all the stuff. And

12:17

it, you know, I was a kid from the suburbs,

12:21

but it, I was determined to live there

12:23

because I dug it. Yeah. But did you, so you,

12:25

so you left for a little bit, went to Ohio

12:27

and then you came back to New York? Yeah. I

12:29

came back and then I got my card about like

12:32

a month after that. Your equity card

12:34

or sad card? Yeah. My equity card doing a

12:36

bus and truck of the Robert bridegroom. Oh my

12:41

God. That is so, I know how old were

12:43

you? You were about 20. What

12:45

20? Yeah. 23, 24. Any

12:49

other options available to you at that,

12:51

at that moment, either practically

12:53

or just sort of emotionally,

12:56

like were you attracted to anything else? Could

12:58

you have taken a fork in the road

13:00

and been something else at that, at that

13:02

moment? No, I had, uh, if the

13:05

way I look back on it now, it

13:07

unfolds itself. Like it was a calling. Yeah.

13:11

I mean, I used to get kicked out of, uh, when

13:13

I get kicked out of a class, they'd

13:15

send me to the library and I would

13:17

sit there and read plays and I'm like, you

13:20

know, 14, 15 years old. I

13:22

have no idea why. Yeah. Was anybody in

13:24

your family doing that? Like, no, my

13:27

brother, uh, my brother was a fan of theater.

13:29

He was, he's a bit older than me and

13:32

we'd go into Clayton, Missouri,

13:34

pick up the New York times every Sunday.

13:36

Literally. It's, you know, way to ton back

13:39

then. And I

13:41

would go to the arts and leisure and basically

13:44

to look at the Hirschfield cartoons. And

13:47

then I just start following

13:49

what shows were up. I

13:51

had no idea why you just

13:53

enjoyed it. Yeah. Why, why were you, why were you

13:55

getting kicked out of class where you just run in

13:57

your mouth and you wanted to perform and get attention.

14:00

I had to have attention. Yeah,

14:02

exactly. Yeah, I've learning was Learning

14:05

bad attention good. Yeah, I had the

14:07

same problem so then

14:09

John so the So then New

14:11

York you stuck it out there and things

14:14

really started to pick up traction or was

14:16

or was the big break out In Los

14:18

Angeles or somewhere in between. I Had

14:21

a series of little breaks. I when

14:24

I got back from the

14:27

tour I Had one time

14:29

had a bunch of pictures You

14:31

know resume stapled them all together and I'm

14:33

in desperation I was sending about the theaters

14:36

one guy a great advertising picked up my

14:38

my picture called me and I got the

14:40

gig and he set

14:42

me up with commercial agents and

14:45

then I Couldn't not

14:47

get them for some reason. I just I've been goofing

14:49

off for making money. I've been goofing on in my

14:51

whole life Well,

14:54

it's also kind of like the like I speak on

14:56

behalf of the four of us if you can't do

14:58

anything else You have to make this

15:00

work Yeah You

15:02

gotta pay the bills at least yeah So

15:05

by that time I was hanging out with a lot

15:07

of like real real actors at a

15:09

place up on the west side and I Got

15:12

to hate myself for doing

15:14

commercial I Was all screwed

15:16

up and I was really getting into drinking at

15:18

the time And I

15:21

Resented doing commercials because other guys were doing

15:23

what I thought was real work, right? so

15:27

I Didn't care. I

15:30

think that's why I got so many of them, right?

15:32

Right, right and I got a lot of them

15:35

and in defense of commercials. I

15:37

do like commercials at the Stanley

15:39

Kubrick said they're the only form of the medium

15:41

though. You can actually acquire perfection because they're just

15:43

30 seconds and They're

15:46

like they're very intricately made

15:48

nowadays Especially the lighting alone man would

15:50

take forever to set up and it

15:52

had to be just right and the

15:54

product just right. Mm-hmm And

15:57

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18:58

right, back to the show. Job

19:01

you You? You head with Jc? Old? are you

19:03

getting so many? Which is nice because you had

19:06

at that time. It seems to me you had

19:08

a sexy indifference. You

19:10

didn't care. You. Didn't go in there

19:12

you they wanted to bad and then you just

19:14

kept getting him and. I. Know the

19:16

dead feeling that spurs when you're younger. I

19:18

remember things like mans i'm not a read

19:21

for a my first a to be like

19:23

his passes you refer some succumbs and like

19:25

sitcoms. Director of the

19:28

Island. Are you out of your

19:30

mind? On the right. I'm an

19:32

artist. Germs a bit of a

19:34

sudden, like so broken, like fuck,

19:36

Blimey, a riff, anything either. Run

19:38

Ray what over Roseanne was so

19:40

like I'm. So. Theater

19:42

It was a lot of succumbs, don't feel

19:45

like theater and allow and do which is

19:47

what they should feel like. And that Roseanne

19:49

to me any time I watched said it

19:51

was like oh I'm I'm in New York

19:53

watching him play every single guy. point. The

19:56

idea was it was different for the time

19:58

because we're good. the to

20:00

a lot of things like Dallas and dynasty and

20:03

all these rich folk things

20:05

and I think we hit a nerve.

20:08

I know my nerves were beat. Does it go

20:10

that far back? When was the year

20:13

1987? I think the pilot. I think I

20:15

graduated or tried to graduate high school that

20:17

year. I wanted to get to Roseanne because

20:20

I really think, I mean when you guys

20:22

were doing it at its best, it was

20:24

just unrivaled. I watched it every week. I

20:26

was such a massive fan of what

20:28

you guys did all the work, the writing, everything

20:30

about it I thought was so good. How did

20:33

that come into your orbit John? At the time

20:35

where were you at when that came around and

20:37

you read that? I was

20:39

out here for

20:41

something in LA. Yeah

20:44

it was either a movie or a commercial

20:48

and I got

20:50

hip and run as a

20:52

Corvette. I

20:54

thought I was hot shit. I had a couple

20:56

of bucks and I remember

20:58

going to the audition in that Corvette and

21:02

I walked in. I didn't know much

21:05

about her. I'd seen her in some Pizza

21:07

Hut commercials. I've

21:10

seen a couple of clips and she was really good

21:12

like on the Carson show and

21:15

I walked in. It was very friendly

21:17

and I read and

21:19

I just knew I had

21:21

the gig. Did you want that gig? Where

21:23

were you in your career?

21:28

I was living out of suitcases all the time because

21:30

I was just starting to get films. Starting in 1985

21:32

I was a book on a lot of movies. After

21:38

Revenge of the Nerds. Yeah

21:40

that was shot in 83. When did you

21:47

start your incredible collaboration with the Coen brothers?

21:49

Was that during the run of Roseanne? No

21:52

it was before. It was 1985. I just

21:54

got a lead

21:58

in a film. David

22:01

Byrne director. Really? Yeah

22:03

it was called True Stories. It's really

22:05

interesting looking. Oh yeah. I don't want

22:07

to see that. And I was just

22:09

really getting, you know, I'd show

22:11

up, I'd go to Daley's because

22:15

I wanted to. And when you were working

22:17

with the Collins? No, just before

22:19

that with David Byrne. And I was

22:21

really getting into films. I

22:23

wasn't as scared as I was. Yeah.

22:25

And I got called, I was in

22:28

New York on a week

22:30

off or something. Anyway, I was in New

22:32

York. They called me in for Raising Arizona.

22:34

And we just sat down and

22:36

goofed around for about an hour. Really?

22:38

That was the audition. And then I read and...

22:40

I bet you felt like you got it. No,

22:43

I didn't know, but I'd never had it. You'd

22:45

sit in an office for an hour, like you

22:47

gotta feel like you got something. I

22:51

never had a more fun audition before

22:53

or since. We just sat

22:55

and goofed around. Yeah. I was

22:59

gonna say we were on the same

23:01

level humor wise, but those guys are

23:03

geniuses. Yeah, they are. No kidding. Yeah.

23:05

But I can't imagine. Well,

23:07

yes, I can't imagine. I'm gonna say that... Did

23:10

they let you contribute once you got in

23:12

there and really started? I mean,

23:15

that character is so specific, John. I mean,

23:17

what an incredible job you did with that

23:20

character. I have to assume

23:22

that you augmented

23:25

that dialogue a little bit or no,

23:27

they're pretty specific, right? I wouldn't know

23:29

how to augment any better than they

23:31

wrote it. We had rehearsal

23:35

time on Lebowski. Yeah. So

23:37

by the time we shot, we were in

23:39

pretty good shape with the dialogue. And that's

23:41

why a lot of people asked me if

23:44

it was improvised. It was just so conversational.

23:47

Because we were facile with it. Yeah.

23:49

What was that process like making that? I

23:51

mean, the big Lebowski obviously is held up

23:53

as one of the all-time great. Yeah, it's

23:56

just lovely. Yeah, it's just

23:58

a great time. Great hang. Do

24:00

you remember reading that script the first time? Yeah,

24:03

and did did you did you

24:05

know Steve and Jeff beforehand or

24:07

no? chemistry just great luck Great

24:10

luck. Yeah Yeah,

24:13

and Everybody

24:15

hit it off. So you read that they

24:17

send you that script and you're like what you're like, holy

24:20

shit They

24:22

write it for you. I'll bet they did Oh, the

24:24

Bosque. Yeah. Yeah that and Barton Fink

24:26

Yeah, and the last one I did

24:28

for him, which was which was the

24:30

last one Inside Lou

24:33

and Davis. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah Beautiful

24:36

movie a little bit more of a

24:38

serious turn. Yeah. Yeah, it was cool. Yeah

24:41

Talk about that. I mean think

24:43

about the breadth of Characters

24:45

that you played with them at the

24:48

helm as writers directors and

24:50

always such different tones, too What

24:53

is that shift like that dynamic working with

24:56

them on on films that have

24:58

such a hugely vastly different? tone

25:00

to them, you know, there's such film

25:03

fans and And

25:05

magpies for popular culture. There's just

25:08

Throw it and everything and it works. They've

25:11

got great ears for people's dialogue

25:15

For human speech will work with

25:17

very solid felt I was about to bring up

25:19

very so very Love Barry.

25:22

I'm friends with yeah We've had him on the show

25:24

and I've been friends with Barry for for a number

25:26

of years and I worked with him a couple times

25:28

and he's uh You obviously worked

25:30

with him on a bunch of great films Jay

25:32

you mentioned. I mean and also very different raising

25:34

Arizona Miller's

25:36

cross from her both Barry films again

25:38

so totally different He

25:45

talked about his first Was

25:48

this person? Oh Well

25:50

blood simple blood simple first.

25:52

Yeah, and he claims that they

25:54

hired him because he had a camera But

25:59

they Back then they were broke

26:02

and they would just know what they

26:04

wanted and they didn't invent ways to

26:06

do it. Like, you

26:08

know, these guys from the 20s, they

26:10

just, if they had a problem, they'd solve it and

26:13

strap a camera on a board and run with it. And

26:16

just, did you, did you see that progression?

26:18

Have you seen that evolution is, cause you've

26:20

been with them for so long and they

26:22

might say the same about you, the evolution

26:25

of them as filmmakers from Raising Arizona to

26:28

Lewindale. I mean, it must be pretty

26:30

significant. Yeah. More of

26:32

a shortcut than anything else. They, they,

26:35

the more experienced they got, the

26:37

easier it gets. The less they need to say,

26:39

you know? Yeah. Yeah. Moving forward in

26:42

your career and your life, do you still have

26:44

the fire in your belly that you had when

26:46

you were a kid to just kind of pursue,

26:48

keep going, challenging yourself? It's much different now. Yeah.

26:51

In what way? Yes. I, I

26:53

feel like I'm still learning. I've, the last

26:55

couple of years have been goofy for me

26:58

because I've been trying

27:00

to be good and it doesn't work that

27:02

way. You know, like way,

27:04

planning things way too much. And at

27:07

the root of that was the fear of losing

27:10

trust in myself. So

27:13

I overcompensated by working way too

27:15

hard and I've just kind of

27:18

come out of that in the last year or so. And

27:21

it's, man, there's,

27:23

there's so much to learn. Yeah. How did you, how

27:25

did you manage to come out of that? I'm

27:29

practically having a nervous breakdown.

27:31

No, it was bad with

27:33

everything. And it just finally,

27:36

yeah, it just, it just

27:38

purged out of me when I went to

27:40

the therapist one day and then

27:42

for the rest of the day, it was horrible.

27:44

Nothing worked. I woke up, woke up the next

27:48

day and I'm. He's

27:52

a cherub standster on my head, but it

27:55

just felt a lot better. It's just, you

27:57

gotta be relaxed when you do stuff and

27:59

open. listen. Yeah. Do you find

28:01

that I'm finding that the older

28:04

I get, the smarter I get,

28:06

the smarter we all get, but

28:08

with the added intelligence or observational

28:10

skills, what comes the

28:12

burden of trying to

28:14

manage all of the new stuff that

28:16

you're absorbing and learning. And it's, and

28:19

there's something brilliant about staying ignorant. Yeah.

28:21

It just keeps complicating stuff and making

28:23

things more dynamic and

28:25

more fun, but it's a, it's more of a challenge

28:28

and you got to keep up, you know, you have

28:30

to be ready to listen

28:33

to yourself. You have to be relaxed. For

28:36

me, that was the key. I already

28:38

know this stuff. Yeah. And

28:40

that's the one thing I didn't trust

28:42

myself about. I didn't make

28:45

it to Stella Adler. I didn't make it through

28:47

to Hagen. I got into the

28:49

studio, but I was, I've never been there. And

28:51

I, I just

28:54

didn't have a, I felt I didn't have a

28:56

base for everything. And

28:58

finally dawned on me. I know this

29:01

stuff. And I've been doing this

29:03

for 50 years. It's like, you know

29:05

it. And it's there. If

29:07

you listen for it, if you let

29:09

it come to you, it's boom. Yeah. Yeah.

29:11

Yeah. Did it, did it start to feel

29:14

like, like maybe you weren't,

29:16

did like, you weren't

29:18

doing anything. And then you realized,

29:20

well, that's because I'm just natural

29:22

at it. And I do know

29:24

all this stuff. And I, I've,

29:27

I've just found sometimes if, if

29:29

I, if I'm so

29:31

comfortable in a character, I

29:33

can sometimes feel like, Oh, I'm just kind of

29:35

phoning this in. I'm just walking this through. And

29:37

then you feel like, Oh, then maybe I should,

29:39

I should play the scene a little, I should

29:41

act a little harder. You know? And then it

29:43

feels like, well, now I'm really working today. But

29:45

then you kind of might, you might watch playback

29:48

or just even hear your own voice and be

29:50

like, Oh God, this, this isn't working. This feels

29:52

like shit. And then you go back to just

29:54

doing it normally. And it's like, no, that's great.

29:56

That's fine. I know this stuff. And you just

29:58

happen to be natural at it. I wonder

30:00

if that's how like athletes feel when they

30:02

just, they're just playing, they're just in it,

30:04

you know? That's what it is, just play.

30:07

Yeah. And listening. Do

30:09

you find as you're changing as a person, that

30:13

it changes the kinds of roles

30:15

that you look to do, since

30:17

what we do is kind of

30:20

an exercise in

30:23

personal exploration we happen to get paid for?

30:26

I don't know. I've been doing the same

30:28

role for the last, same role

30:30

you have. For the last like

30:32

four or five years. Yeah.

30:35

And I haven't really had much of a chance

30:37

to do everything else. Cause you've

30:39

been doing the Connors, you're talking about the Connors,

30:41

the Connors and the Bricshires Jumpstones.

30:44

Yeah. It's also, John, it's also

30:46

wild to hear you talk about

30:49

whatever, whether I've read about stuff that you've been

30:51

struggling with, and you're so nice to be open about

30:53

your journey, just being

30:56

more comfortable in your own skin and getting to

30:58

know yourself as Jason said, as we get

31:00

older, that it's always so surprising. And it's

31:02

never not surprising to look at you, somebody

31:04

I've always admired and was like, wow, that's

31:07

such a cool career. I'd love to have

31:09

his career, like amazing actor,

31:11

everything he does to hear

31:13

somebody like you speak publicly about whatever

31:16

your issue is, whatever you're going through

31:19

is really kind of a eye-opening

31:21

because from over here, it's like,

31:23

I've always got this career of a lifetime. And

31:26

it's always so surprising and it shouldn't

31:28

be. And it's also so helpful to

31:30

me, cause I, the same goes for

31:32

me as far as my

31:34

admiration for you, but it like makes

31:36

me feel a lot better about all

31:38

the human feelings I have that are

31:41

sometimes challenging. It's like, I don't know,

31:43

you know, it's silly that

31:46

we all need a reminder that everybody's human, but

31:48

it is, it's really nice to hear. So thank

31:50

you for sharing all of it. It's

31:53

just kind of to

31:55

help myself and maybe help somebody else. But

31:59

yeah, it's when I... I've been

32:01

clean about 16 years now. And

32:05

the last 16 years I've

32:08

had to grow a lot into my

32:10

normal age. And it's been a lot,

32:12

but I'm glad I did it. Oh,

32:15

that's great. John, you know, the last time

32:17

I saw you, I was going to say this when you

32:19

first popped on on the show today, but

32:21

the last time I saw you was

32:23

Saturday Night Live when I hosted in

32:27

2001 at the after party, you

32:29

came, everybody was partying and you walked

32:32

in and pulled your pants down and

32:34

walk all the way across the entire

32:36

room. And everybody was dying

32:38

laughing. I was like, is that

32:41

John Goodman with his pants down? I

32:44

don't remember that. That's longer

32:46

than 16 years ago. I'm,

32:48

I'm cursed with a bad memory like that.

32:50

I will remember stuff like that, but this

32:52

one. Yeah. No, believe

32:54

me. 300 people that were there. Remember it.

32:57

Oh my God. You're so you're going to,

32:59

you're still good on that show too. There's

33:02

going to be a lot of stuff missing

33:04

from your autobiography because of your, uh, your

33:06

ability to recall some of this stuff. I

33:08

get the same problem. Pat it with blank

33:10

pages, draw your own

33:12

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seeing results in just two to three weeks. I

36:35

remember seeing you on SNL. It

36:37

was, I think, Amy, my ex-wife's first year on

36:41

the show and you hosted and

36:43

I just stayed very far away. I remember seeing you at

36:45

the after party and being like, oh my God. Yeah.

36:49

I hit it off with her from jump. Yeah.

36:52

It just, hers, she and

36:54

Seth wrote a bit and we

36:56

did it. I thought it was

36:58

a brilliant bit. But

37:01

I just, you know, I really dug her.

37:03

Yeah. She's cool. It made

37:05

me feel welcome. Well, you, yeah, yeah. And

37:07

you were so, you were so good. You

37:09

had such a facility for that. You could

37:11

have been an all-time great cast member for

37:14

sure. Yeah. I don't know how to

37:16

do improv, but. No, but you don't need

37:18

to. I auditioned for it in 1980

37:20

when everybody quit. You did? And they

37:23

put the new cast on. No way. Did

37:25

you really? Yeah. And

37:27

I got it. Laurie Metcalf. Oh, wow.

37:30

But she was, I don't think she would ever went

37:32

on air. I don't know what happened, but yeah, she

37:34

was one of the people they picked. Oh,

37:36

wow. I didn't know that. Oh,

37:39

it was horrible. It was open calls

37:41

and they had guys walking around in

37:43

Blues Brothers costumes like by the

37:45

score. It was a hideous dream. No

37:50

way. A desperation

37:52

flop sweat. Oh,

37:55

fuck man. So would that

37:57

have been a job that you would have really, really loved?

37:59

being a part of that cast. That was

38:01

my, that used to be my

38:04

favorite thing to do every year. Yeah,

38:06

I'll bet. I'd get so goddamn scared

38:08

and just hit the door and walk

38:10

onto the floor. It

38:13

was great, man. I was

38:15

a big fan of the national

38:17

lampoon when I was

38:19

in college. And when

38:22

I saw a lot of the writing staff from

38:24

Saturday Night Live, I was really intrigued. Yeah.

38:27

And it was a hit to me. I

38:30

remember parties used to stop when

38:32

they'd come on and people would

38:34

watch television. For sure. Oh

38:37

yeah, that's a good point. It was a big deal. Who

38:39

were your big kind of idols when you were a

38:41

kid, when you went to get an acting or comedy

38:43

or anything? Like who were you like? Well,

38:46

I'm almost ashamed to say Brando. But

38:49

why? That's great. Yeah, no, a

38:52

lot of people my age will say that. It

38:54

just never seen anything like him.

38:57

Yeah. And I didn't really

39:00

pay that much attention to movies. I liked him.

39:03

What was the thing that was distractingly

39:06

different about him per

39:09

the style that was around right then?

39:12

He looked like he was making it up. Right.

39:15

And it's just, he hit it in 1950, 51. Looked

39:21

more like a guy, incredibly good

39:23

looking guy that walked off the street. Right.

39:25

The style was much more sort of, It

39:29

was presentational. Broad, yeah, presentational back before

39:31

that, right? It was a bigger thing.

39:35

It's a style. He and Montgomery Clift

39:37

and all those guys, right? Like he

39:39

got more naturalistic. Montgomery Clift was another

39:42

icebreaker. He was one of my idols

39:45

too, even though he's a little before my time. He was one

39:47

of the guys that loved him for the place in the Philippines.

39:49

Yeah, he pretty old as well. Yeah. I

39:52

am pretty old. Yeah, I think people

39:54

are slightly, I think the kids today

39:56

are kind of sliding away from it,

39:58

that stuff that I was. race

40:00

with the group theater.

40:02

Everything was based from that

40:04

and Stanislavski ites

40:07

and then the sects

40:10

that developed among

40:12

the acting teachers. It

40:14

seems like people are getting away from that now.

40:16

But did you want to get into comedy? Were

40:18

you like, okay I'm gonna be, I

40:21

think that I have a, I'm

40:23

quite adept at comedy. Did

40:26

you know that? Was that something that you were like?

40:29

I was good at comedy in the

40:31

classroom and when

40:33

I thought it was still cute to mug. No,

40:39

it has to be necessarily really

40:42

structured comedy

40:44

play as opposed to like improv but there

40:46

are rules there too and it has

40:49

its own structure. Yeah. And it

40:52

could be terribly hard but when

40:55

it's easy man it flies and

40:57

there's nothing like it. I have to

41:00

John a lot of the times on this show. I thought

41:02

someone was gonna say I have to go guys.

41:08

I'm going right now. Wait a minute. I

41:10

am presently going. It's warm. No, I have

41:19

to ask if you have any tragic theater stories

41:21

like mine falling on the table at the dinner

41:23

table only because I love

41:25

them because they're so shocking to me.

41:28

The worst thing that ever happened to me was in well

41:31

two things happened in the show. I was doing a musical in

41:33

1985 on Broadway and I was doing

41:39

it for a while. Do you remember? Yeah,

41:41

Big River and I was supposed to come out

41:43

and surprise my son Huckleberry Finn and

41:46

before I was

41:48

standing behind this flat waiting to go on

41:50

and I couldn't remember my first line and

41:53

I panicked and I panicked

41:55

and I just wouldn't come and

41:58

I was the cue was there

42:00

and I was going to step out and say, ladies

42:02

and gentlemen, I'm so sorry. I can't.

42:04

And the line popped into my head,

42:06

but that happened for four nights straight.

42:08

Yeah. Yeah. Wait, did the line

42:11

pop in your head once you'd stepped onto state

42:13

or before? Yeah. As soon as I opened my

42:15

mouth, isn't that amazing? Isn't it amazing how that

42:17

happened? Yeah. Yeah. It's right there.

42:19

But I, and I don't know why it

42:21

happened. Uh, and

42:23

the second was, uh, my

42:25

son was supposed to hit me in Huck Finn supposed

42:28

to hit me in the jaw with a stool,

42:32

three legged stool. And one night

42:34

I forgot to turn,

42:37

forgot to put my hand up and throw my

42:39

head back. And I caught it and drove my

42:41

jaw back into my head. It knocked me out

42:44

and I got up and finished, finished the show

42:46

and no, I finished my scene and then I

42:48

had to go down the street to the hospital.

42:51

No way. You didn't have a

42:53

broken jaw. Did you know, uh,

42:56

no, but it was touch

42:58

and go for about five days there. When

43:00

I did show up under study, he said,

43:02

you get stretched out. Yeah. Let

43:05

him have it for a while. Yeah. The

43:07

performances after you just took like 10 feet

43:10

a step, 10 feet away. No, but, um, why

43:14

I know, I understand that thing about the line.

43:16

I was doing hairspray live on NBC. This is

43:18

like, oh yeah. Five years ago, eight years ago.

43:20

I remember. And it's

43:23

live in front of the whole country. And

43:25

I'm playing Mr. Pinky or something like that.

43:28

And, um, it's

43:31

that sensation and I rehearsed and rehearsed

43:33

and it's now you now you're, I'm behind the

43:36

door. It's alive in front of the country and

43:38

it's a big deal. And I

43:40

opened the doors and I had the sensation.

43:42

I think it's Marty Short

43:44

and Harvey Firestein or something. And

43:46

I, I said in my

43:49

head, am I supposed to be here

43:51

right now? Am I, I think I

43:53

may have entered too early on

43:55

the span of half of a second. And

43:57

so, oh yeah, you can put a whole diction.

44:00

in that episode. So I'm sitting there

44:02

and I turned to him and I'm,

44:04

I mouthed the first line instead of

44:06

singing it. And it

44:08

looks like the sound was cut out. And

44:11

so I was perfect. I

44:14

put a technical glitch at the top of

44:16

my number. What a fucking disaster. It was

44:18

a disaster. It was a panic inside was

44:20

so unbelievable that then I started

44:23

singing the second line. It was,

44:25

it was, it's awful. It was awful. How did, how did turn out?

44:31

We, we also had a, I think the

44:33

first or second preview of the

44:35

front page did about five

44:37

or six years ago. And

44:40

there were guys that came in and sat in the front

44:42

row, put their drinks on

44:44

the, on the stage and

44:47

their feet up there. And then one guy

44:49

got up and started going, I love you,

44:51

John Goodman. I love you, John Goodman. I

44:53

loved, and

44:55

I go, I'll just not say

44:57

anything. Please

45:01

make any, he got up, he walked

45:03

out of the theater. That was a little

45:05

frightening. No

45:08

kidding. There was two, there was two girls

45:10

who can do the show called an act

45:12

of God. And there's these two girls that

45:14

were bombed out of the, no, I don't

45:16

think so this time. Yeah. No, I thought,

45:18

I thought at the Amundsen, that's right. They

45:20

were bombed out of their minds. And

45:23

from the second I walked out, they scrater

45:25

screaming like, I love

45:27

you in front of everybody. Everybody's quiet.

45:30

Yeah, exactly. Screaming. And so I was

45:32

like, they're not only drunk. I think

45:34

they're on like drugs or something. So,

45:37

and I think I've told this story on the show before, but

45:41

they were so gone. I had in my head

45:43

while I'm talking in my head, I'm like, I

45:45

think I have to stop the show. And

45:48

so I went, I go,

45:50

excuse me a second. I walked off stage. So

45:52

this is on Broadway, told the

45:54

stage manager, you gotta get the two

45:57

girls on there. They're not, they're not

45:59

moving. They're clapping. and laughing at every

46:01

word. And, um, wait, wasn't

46:03

this the one man show? Yes. It's a one

46:05

man show. So I walked off the stage, let's

46:07

say one month, let's say, yeah, left the stage

46:10

empty. The

46:12

security guards came down, removed them. The

46:15

whole audience clapped. I walked on and

46:17

I said, and that's the power of

46:19

God. I was playing God. Um, right.

46:22

And I just kept going, but

46:25

it's awful. People just don't know how to

46:27

behave in the theaters. The moral of the

46:29

story. It's getting worse too. It is getting

46:31

worse. It is getting worse. Uh,

46:33

man, uh, John Goodman, we have taken up

46:36

way too much of your time, man. Just

46:38

honestly, from, from a far

46:40

from very afar, just been such

46:43

an admirer in, in just a

46:45

complete fan of yours. I am. I'm a huge

46:47

fan of you guys as well. Great.

46:51

Yeah. Okay. I'm going to cut

46:53

it short there, thank you. It's

46:55

uh, I really, really appreciate you hanging

46:58

out with us for an hour. I

47:00

was terrified at the beginning of this.

47:02

Oh man. You guys are so good.

47:04

Again, that just makes us feel incredible

47:07

that, that we, that we're even on

47:09

your radar, let alone, you know, so

47:11

thank you. Ding dongs,

47:14

you know, ding dongs with the wifi connection.

47:16

Jason's in New York with a wifi connection

47:19

and rented apartment. He's just starting a job.

47:21

Sean's in Mark fake facing

47:23

away from his TV. I can hear

47:25

something vacuuming above me. I'm like, this

47:27

is a joke. We're a bunch of

47:29

clowns. So thank you for doing that.

47:32

Uh, the great, the great John Goodman.

47:34

Thank you, my friend. What an honor.

47:36

Yeah. Thank you for, uh, thanks for

47:39

the invite, man. It's been wonderful.

47:41

Anytime. Thank you. Thanks. That was

47:43

fantastic. Thank you, John. Very much. Adios.

47:48

That was John Goodman. That's John.

47:50

Great. The great, the great,

47:52

the gold, the gold standard, as I

47:54

said, and maybe the best, most classical

47:57

name in the history of all names.

48:00

I wonder what is his middle

48:02

name? Is it equally classic and

48:04

American like a Frank or something

48:06

like that? John Frank Goodman. Stephen,

48:09

actually. I think it's Stephen. Yeah, there you go. That

48:11

works. Is it really John? That

48:14

was a fantastic get there. Will. I set

48:16

myself up for that and got a real

48:18

beat down. She's just how about how about

48:20

he's killing it on the Connors too. Isn't

48:22

the Connor still like, we didn't even get

48:24

a chance. I want to get it. So

48:26

he does the Roseanne. They do it

48:28

for like 12 years. Roseanne's like 263 episodes or something. Right? And then he

48:36

goes, and now they've done almost a hundred

48:38

episodes of the Connors. Unbelievable. Yeah.

48:41

And in that time he's made like 10 movies

48:44

with the Cohen brothers amongst others, you

48:46

know, and he's just been in like

48:48

the guy's just done it all. I'm

48:51

not going to cry. I'm sorry. Just a little bit of gas. It's

48:53

just gas America. Yeah. But like this is

48:55

to be him and to sustain all that

48:57

through all like, I don't know, whatever he's,

49:00

it just means you're great. Yeah. He's just

49:02

got it. He is great. And he has

49:04

been great for his whole career and has

49:06

stayed employed his whole. I guarantee you this.

49:08

I bet you, if you go back and

49:11

you find some of those early commercials, you

49:13

watch them and you're like, this guy's great.

49:16

By the way, I have seen those early, early

49:19

commercials when he's really young. Like I think it

49:21

was like a burger commercial or something. And

49:23

you're like, Oh yeah, that guy's great. And he's great.

49:26

Right. But revenge of the nerds was like, only like

49:28

one of the, you know, the

49:30

first four or five things he did. It

49:32

was like, and he was like, you

49:34

watch that movie and you go, Oh, you

49:36

feel like that guy had been around forever.

49:38

Exactly. He feels iconic. He

49:41

feels iconic. And it's one of his

49:43

first films. And you're like, Oh,

49:45

that's John Goodman. I don't know why I remember

49:47

the one line from Roseanne. I don't know why

49:49

I remember this. They were on vacation

49:52

and they got an argument and they were

49:54

like in the Bahamas or something. And

49:56

Roseanne goes, you know what, Dan,

49:59

we should have gone. on separate vacations. I

50:01

go to the Bahamas and you go to hell.

50:04

And I was like, Oh my God. And

50:07

I was like, I

50:10

was like, I can't believe they just said

50:12

that. I was so young. I was like,

50:14

I can't believe that's a great light. That

50:16

was produced by a, by the great Tom

50:18

Warner and produced by the great and the

50:21

Connor still produced by the great Tom Warner,

50:23

our friend and a chairman of Liverpool football

50:25

club and, um, and a pretty strong, uh,

50:29

eight handicap. Maybe. Right.

50:32

I'm trying to think it's a good

50:34

golfer. He's not to be underestimated. I

50:36

wanted to say, I wanted to say

50:38

happy birthday to our buddy, uh, Billy

50:41

Hogan over there at Liverpool, Liverpool football

50:43

club. I think we missed it, but,

50:45

uh, you want to say to them

50:47

right now? Cause, uh, Ooh, Sean, I'd

50:49

love to sign off first if that's

50:51

okay. Before I do it, if you're

50:53

going to be singing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

50:55

Just before you start singing. But you

50:58

know what? You know, I always do

51:00

like a classic. It's sort of like

51:02

an homage to, uh, Marilyn Monroe. I

51:04

always do that. No, don't, don't, don't

51:06

lift up your sweat pants for him.

51:08

Um, so I'm trying to think up

51:11

a by, oh, let me see that

51:13

one. Are we supposed to, you

51:15

know what? Here's what I would, here's

51:17

what I'd like. And it was two

51:19

things. One, the first one was, was,

51:21

was confirmed into or, uh, resuggested by

51:23

the great Justin Thoreau earlier today. We

51:26

need to have some, uh, live, uh,

51:29

questions from the, from, from the fans or

51:31

at least read a question online. We're going

51:33

to, we are going to maybe do something

51:35

like that. I would love that. I would

51:37

like also in that same folder, some suggestions

51:39

for buys from our listeners. I'm sure they

51:41

would come up with these, like, why don't

51:43

they ever use this? First of all, I

51:45

do, I do have, I do have a

51:47

buy that I was, I was getting to, but I want to

51:49

say two things about, I think that you're right, JB. I think

51:51

that's a good idea. Yeah. And, but

51:54

I will also say this. We

51:56

are not taking fucking creative suggestions

51:58

from Justin Thoreau. No,

52:00

you know what you're right so this guy keep him different

52:02

every time I see he says the same You know what

52:04

you guys ought to do. I'm like Yeah,

52:16

fuck you thorough you fucking fuck

52:20

Three no one three fuck you through are you ready?

52:22

Yeah, two three Anyway

52:28

guys I did get some new by vocals

52:30

that's true. I did get some I'm Oh

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