0:00

Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions

0:02

is an explicit podcast about queer sex,

0:04

filter dirty words, and unfiltered descriptions

0:07

of sexual activities. If hearing about

0:09

orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish,

0:11

and more offends your sensibilities, you

0:14

might want to skip this.

0:15

Viewer discretion is advised. It's definitely

0:18

not for kids.

0:20

All right, Cruising Confession time, Chris,

0:23

have you ever been with a DL

0:25

guy?

0:25

If they were DL, they didn't tell me, and

0:28

it definitely was in like high school.

0:31

I guess they were yell because we couldn't talk

0:33

about it right, you know, like I could like

0:35

publicize the fact that, like we were hanging out

0:37

together. So yeah, I guess high school

0:39

would be the time.

0:40

It is funny because I think a lot of queer people

0:43

are sort of in the closet for a little

0:45

bit.

0:45

And I mean not all of them obviously, but like

0:47

you know what I mean.

0:48

In high school, I was like, so I love

0:50

musical theater, debate club, and I'm straight,

0:53

Like you know what I mean.

0:54

Believable, believable, she's an actor.

0:57

Okay, she's an actor.

1:00

What about you?

1:01

Have you ever been with a DL person? There

1:03

was a guy on a sports team

1:05

in my high school. Okay. He like

1:07

instant messaged me at eleven pm one night

1:10

and he was like, Hey, what are you doing? And I was

1:12

like what what text? Yeah? Then

1:14

we started.

1:14

I knew he had a girlfriend, okay, and we started

1:16

sharing like sexual stories and he's like, yeah, I've always

1:19

been interested in like putting stuff up my butt

1:21

and hooking up with a dude. Oh, and

1:23

we like almost hooked up in a

1:25

mall parking lot. He was like, Oh, I'll drive out

1:27

to the O Vito marketplace

1:30

to hook up with you at midnight.

1:33

And I was like, oh, I'm down.

1:35

And then I was like, how am I going to leave my house?

1:37

Yes, at midnight and

1:39

explain to my Puerto Rican parents

1:42

that I'm just going to the mall.

1:46

Girl, I was about to risk it all for

1:48

a deal.

1:48

Man.

1:49

Was he hot?

1:50

He was? Okay, well he was.

1:53

So I'm wondering when was the first time you heard

1:55

DL as like I termed to describe

1:58

people who were not out.

1:59

Yeah.

2:00

So for me, it was like daytime

2:02

talk shows, the Oprah moment, these men around

2:04

the down low, and what's wild is

2:06

it was usually men of color. So

2:09

the term felt very much racialized

2:12

and kind of tied to a

2:14

specific demographic or a specific type of person,

2:16

because I was like, I know a lot of closeted white guys,

2:18

but I didn't see them on Rocky Lake, you.

2:20

Know what I mean.

2:20

Like, so, yeah, it was interesting. How about you when

2:22

you first shared the term around the same time. Honestly,

2:25

I think being a black person

2:27

and growing up in the nineties, there was all

2:29

this conversation around HIV AIDS and how it was

2:31

ravishing our community, and like that's

2:34

where the conversation started.

2:35

It was like, well, it's all these DL.

2:36

Guys going out and getting HIV and

2:39

giving into our women.

2:40

Right.

2:40

The blame is always on the individual and never

2:42

on the government or the institutions of power

2:44

that A forced people to be closeted

2:47

and b don't provide folks

2:49

with access to healthcare adequate healthcare.

2:51

It's like, babe, it's the solution is simple. In

2:54

today's episode, we offer a reappraisal

2:57

of the controversial figure of the down low or

2:59

DL guy and unpack some of the stigma

3:01

and stereotypes that perpetuate harm today while

3:04

look at some of the reasons folks might feel like they

3:06

need to stay in the closet, to their families, or

3:08

in their workplace.

3:09

First, we talked to author Brontes Parnell about

3:11

his relationships with DL guys.

3:13

Then we'll talk to an anonymous DL guest who uses

3:15

Sniffies to hook up with gay and straight curious

3:18

men. Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

3:20

I am Gabe Gonzils.

3:21

I'm Chris Patterson Rosso. Each

3:24

week weeks more the sublime world of queer sex,

3:27

cruising and relationship.

3:28

We'll be talking to queer folks of all kinds. Ask them

3:30

questions, swap sex stories, share intimate

3:33

revelations.

3:33

A lot of us are discovering ourselves in cruising

3:36

spaces.

3:36

This happened to me at this toilet stall, in the

3:38

library or the airport.

3:40

I feel like everybody's gonna fuck a little harder.

3:42

Here, damn.

3:43

So I've been like the neighborhood flat, and I took

3:45

pride in that I was so afraid

3:47

but yet so intrigued.

3:49

And the more I gave to him, the more.

3:50

He could take. Our

3:54

first guest today is Brontes Parnell. Brontes

3:56

is a writer, poet, punk dancer, director,

3:59

and an icon to the rad queers.

4:00

Everywhere.

4:01

His award winning books include Since I Laid

4:03

My Burden Down and one Hundred Boyfriends, which

4:05

won a Lambda Literary Award for Gay Fiction.

4:08

His newest book, Ten Bridges I've Burnt, is

4:10

in stores now.

4:11

Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Hi

4:14

Son says, should we talk about the elephant in the room?

4:17

That DL article that was on Hush Sniffy's.

4:20

I thought, that's why y'all flew me here, so

4:27

a little context.

4:28

Sniffy's published this article by writer Zachary

4:30

Zane and it was all about enjoying sleeping

4:33

with deal guys. And then the online

4:35

comments came in pretty swiftly

4:37

and intensely, and you actually made a post commenting

4:40

on the comments and the article itself.

4:42

Do you remember what like the issue you took with the

4:45

response to that article was and what you were feeling?

4:47

Okay, well, basically there's

4:49

kind of like, uh, basically, a

4:52

lot of the commenters were like framing

4:54

all download guys is having a moral

4:57

deficit for not being out of the

4:59

closet. And the point I was making is

5:02

if you're having sex on Sniffy's, you

5:04

already have a moral deficit. Wily

5:11

fingers and like, aren't we here to

5:13

do sketchy shit with sketchy people. That's

5:15

why I signed up. So there

5:17

was kind of like this moral grand

5:19

standing where I was just like, I'm gonna

5:21

bring you bitches back to earth and the rudest

5:24

way possible.

5:25

Yeah, it it's the only way to ground the community.

5:28

Get the girls together.

5:30

I'm just like, girls were getting older. There's

5:32

not a lot of options. Shut

5:35

up and take the dig.

5:40

Do you remember when this whole thing blew

5:42

up in the late nineties around DL guys.

5:45

Oh man, Yeah, I remember it, but I mean

5:47

it was just it was framing and it was bullshit.

5:50

Did Gregory?

5:50

Actually I love did Gregory?

5:52

But did Gregory?

5:53

Like I remember him saying something to the effect

5:56

in this panel of Oh so there

5:59

are black men who

6:01

have sex with other men, you

6:04

know, and keep it as a secret

6:06

life.

6:06

But we are to believe that.

6:07

White men don't do this, and

6:10

of course, right like when white men

6:12

do it, they are libertines or bisexual

6:15

or whatever. Like DL is

6:18

a specifically racialized term,

6:20

and it's always on the head of like you know, the

6:23

fucking lascivious you

6:25

know, plantation bull or like

6:27

you know, the Mexican day worker who's

6:29

like coming to destroy your bussy. It's

6:32

like, no, it's like this totally sensationalized

6:34

thing. And to be quite honest, like

6:38

in the realm that we interact in,

6:40

these men don't act any different

6:43

than the sketchy baggots you fuck like,

6:45

I.

6:45

Just don't, you know.

6:46

But it's the framing of it that makes it, you know,

6:50

it's kind of the thing that's fueling the desire

6:52

for people.

6:52

I think, so like, yes, we

6:54

could all agree.

6:55

Sniffy's as an app that is used by many

6:57

types of men, deal men included.

7:00

Sometimes DL is the connotation of just

7:02

like I don't want you all niggas in my business. Oka't

7:06

look because you know, like I'll be in Oakland

7:09

and they'll be guys claiming to be DL. But

7:11

like this one guy walked in my room and was

7:13

like, oh, yeah, you got the guitar and books.

7:16

My cousin fucked you, And I was

7:18

like, you supposed to be d L.

7:20

But y'all y'all talking amongst each

7:22

other. But I also think

7:24

that it, like the the notion

7:27

of it has kind of morphed too,

7:29

you know, which I also think is kind

7:32

of fine. There is part of me too, Like I'm

7:34

like, I really spent these years of

7:36

my life like wearing this rainbow

7:39

crop.

7:39

Toppying like and I'm gay except me,

7:41

But like what if I.

7:43

Just shut my fucking mouth and been DL, Like

7:45

it could have been so much easier, you

7:49

know what I'm saying, Like no, cause it's

7:51

like and there's always this thing

7:53

that I talk about, like I'll have like

7:55

young d L boys come and talk to me

7:58

about like should I come out of the closet? Should I'm

8:00

not but me being in like the

8:02

radical San Francisco vibe, I'm like, the

8:04

second he comes out of the closet,

8:06

the only thing that's gonna happen is a bunch

8:09

of trifling ass white bottoms on grind

8:11

theer're gonna be blowing up his phone all day.

8:13

It's not you know what I'm saying, like one on the plantation

8:16

roll thing. It's like it's like

8:19

it's treacherous and so like sometimes

8:21

I'm almost.

8:22

Like, no, baby, just stay, just stay,

8:25

like you know.

8:25

What I'm saying, Like, but then

8:27

also even thinking about the fact that like

8:33

Stiffy's is probably the only place I

8:35

get trade anymore, Like

8:37

the second the second I turned forty,

8:40

the second I was over two hundred and twenty

8:42

pounds and the second I had gray

8:44

hair. Nobody talked

8:46

to me on Grinder. Wait, white

8:49

men especially like don't talk to me on Grinder.

8:51

I had a scruff profile

8:53

for two years. Not one hit

8:56

right anybody that I

8:58

am in. When I am, I want Sniffies

9:01

and I was. I started Sniffy's in like

9:03

quarantine. So Quarantine was fun.

9:05

Now I feel like it's just like a bunch of scammers and gay

9:08

dudes, But like Quarantine

9:10

was fun, and it was always the anonymous

9:12

profiles where it was like the jackpot.

9:15

You know what I'm saying.

9:16

Like, but I noticed that when

9:19

I, you know, started going through

9:21

Man, I pause, the

9:23

dal dude that you know was

9:26

you know, probably part of the prison population became

9:28

like my number one fan, and thank god for

9:30

them, But

9:33

where would we be, yo guy.

9:37

But it's also too it's like I don't

9:39

know, like we're

9:42

all just fucking sketch, you know, like

9:44

we're all pretty sketch. But I'm

9:46

also saying I still have as much sex as

9:48

I had when I was like, you know, that twenty

9:50

year old thought going to the gym

9:53

five days a week, three hours a day, but

9:55

like when your body change, how the scope

9:57

of your trade changes, how you have access

10:00

the sex changes. It's weird,

10:02

right because we're essentially what we're having here is like an

10:04

intersectional conversation about

10:06

sex, but people don't like intersections

10:08

because intersections are always black holes.

10:11

Like we can discuss how it like kind

10:13

of has no meeting once. There's five

10:15

different things we're talking about. But

10:18

I don't say this to uphold

10:21

these men, but I do. I

10:23

am glad that there is this

10:26

app that kind of kind

10:28

of did away with how Grinder

10:31

became Christian mingo all of a

10:33

sudden, seriously, because

10:35

it became like about, oh sorry, you be on

10:37

Grinder sometimes, and I just feel like it's

10:39

a bunch of white dudes asking you what your

10:41

earning potential is, and like if

10:43

you have the nine inch dick, you still have

10:45

to have the apartment or the education,

10:48

Like there's real interview, whereas like sniffy

10:50

dudes are just like I want you face down, ass

10:52

up social Security card on the bed.

11:01

Kind of excited.

11:04

The whole

11:07

series, so

11:10

I have to have then, what's

11:13

been good or about about hooking up with DL men from

11:15

a sexual and maybe an emotional

11:18

perspective.

11:19

I don't.

11:20

It's when I say, DM, I don't

11:22

think they act any different than the gay is.

11:24

What I will tell you is, Okay, here's a funny story.

11:26

Right.

11:27

I got this one guy that

11:31

was like, okay, it was

11:33

a white guy. It was this white top

11:35

and he was using pictures of a light

11:38

skinned black boys dick and talking

11:40

in a a v like African American

11:42

vernacular English, be like, yeah, I'm gonna show up.

11:44

I'm gonna beat them cakes up.

11:46

I'm gonna do all this.

11:47

But I want you like you know, I want you blindfolded,

11:50

doors locked or door unlocked,

11:52

like face down. But like I live on like Martin

11:55

Luther King Junior Way in Oakland.

11:58

You know it's always a scared street.

12:00

Right, I'll leave my door on locks.

12:03

And I was also like, I got roommates.

12:05

This is the Bay Area. What the fuck do you think

12:07

I live alone?

12:09

Anyway?

12:09

Right, I get to the door and I

12:12

answered the door, and it's like, not just

12:14

any white boy. I'm talking man Bun

12:17

Berkeley, sweater, burken stocks.

12:19

You got like Rachel Doloso.

12:20

But he was like, oh.

12:21

Real, okay, no, but like y'all, but

12:23

seriously, he has some serious dick on him, and I still

12:26

let him hit right yeah,

12:29

But then later he

12:32

like hit me up and was

12:34

like, hey, man, that's fucked up. That was

12:36

supposed to be anonymous, and I was like, you were

12:38

supposed to be black. But

12:41

the thing about it was like.

12:45

His it's

12:50

like.

12:53

Here's but because

12:56

it's a weird.

12:57

His fetish was impersonating

12:59

a download black man so he

13:01

could go fuck blindfolded

13:04

black bottoms, like okay.

13:06

But then afterwards his boyfriend

13:09

texted me on the app and was like, hey,

13:11

did this guy come over? Was he using

13:14

like was he using these black

13:16

boys pictures?

13:17

And then I was like yeah, yeah

13:19

girl, yeah, yo, man skitch. But

13:21

then he was like, well how was the six?

13:23

And I was like and so I blocked him because

13:26

I thought that was like the guy or whatever.

13:28

Yeah, but so.

13:34

That wild participating

13:37

in someone else's fantasy without your knowledge,

13:40

where I.

13:41

Can't do that every day.

13:46

Also, like it was like totally fine.

13:50

Yeah, but then also I don't even

13:52

when we're like yeah the dick was good, I'm

13:55

sorry, like as I go through mana

13:57

pause too, like part of me too is just

13:59

like good

14:03

dick is like not that

14:05

hard to come by the right, you

14:08

know, because I remember being it, like, you know, in my

14:10

twenties and just remembering I always had

14:12

to have the most porn ideal of the

14:14

most thunder god dig down, and like,

14:17

you know, the older you get, you're just like, oh, I just

14:19

need to get this shit done so I can get on fucking,

14:21

you know, make my spaghetti

14:24

and go to bed. You know, sex

14:27

becomes as I treat

14:30

sex more as a natural

14:32

function of you know, human

14:35

life, you know, and not always

14:37

having to have it be this like I

14:39

don't know, this porn ideal or

14:42

whatever kind of changes in the shape of

14:44

how I engage.

14:46

I'm very interested in these sort of porn ideals

14:48

too, right because on the one hand, we have talked about

14:51

how coming out in some places

14:53

is not safe even still to this day, or not

14:55

comfortable for a lot of people, which is why we stop people in

14:57

the closet.

14:58

But I do think there's like a flip.

14:59

Side to the a DL men are viewed,

15:01

and part of what causes the kind of controversy

15:04

surrounding the idolizing of the

15:06

DL guy, the idea that there's something harder

15:08

about them in bed because they are straight or they

15:10

give the impression of like uber masculinity.

15:13

I don't know, how do you kind of unpack that when you're thinking about

15:15

this topic that's.

15:16

All across the board, Okay,

15:19

Like just if I say

15:21

the mean average of stories I

15:23

hear with these men, right, they

15:25

are usually in their forties, the

15:28

wife has had the second kid and

15:30

has stopped putting out. Right,

15:33

They usually are in social circle.

15:35

Straight men have very close social

15:37

circles, and it's very hard for them

15:39

to be sleeping with women within those

15:42

circles. So I think they know they're at

15:44

that age where a rectile dysfunction is about

15:46

to hit, and they're just like, this

15:48

is my last ten years to get it in, And

15:50

so they go into this realm like

15:52

where they can have complete anonymousness,

15:56

like there's actually something very functional

15:58

about like kind of what they're doing and actually

16:00

makes a lot of sense, and even like the idea

16:03

of them cheating, it's funny. My mom,

16:05

the biggest like sex positive awesome person

16:07

is like kind of like my mom, right, And

16:09

I remember like talking to my mom

16:12

on time and being like, so, like, Mom, do like all

16:14

men cheat? And She's like, are you fucking stupid?

16:17

Women cheat? Like when a man is cheating,

16:19

Do you think he's only cheating with single women?

16:22

He fucking someone's.

16:23

Girlfriend, fucking someone's wife,

16:25

Like do the actual map Like

16:27

a lot of these guys, I do think that their wives

16:30

have like other lovers or doing whatever. Some

16:32

of these guys I think are coming in to like kind

16:35

of act out these things that these

16:37

mans do. Some shit to me where I'm like, if I

16:39

was a woman, i'd call the police. But

16:42

you know, like look at me, like I don't know, I'm

16:44

pretty built. People fuck me like I'm a linebacker,

16:46

so it's like I could take a beating, you

16:49

know what I'm saying. But when you talk

16:51

about them, like the stories are so across

16:53

the board, and it really did make me think

16:55

that like gay really is a political

16:58

identity.

16:59

I don't.

17:00

I think it's like we live in a world where

17:03

there was always room for the behavior,

17:06

but the identity is what

17:08

became the crisis. Men

17:10

have found a way to have sex with other men forever

17:14

years. Yeah, but now that we are in like

17:16

this last seventy years of

17:18

this kind of gay revolution, the

17:22

subject becomes like identity,

17:25

right. But then also sometimes I don't

17:27

know, I feel there's ways I feel kind

17:29

of left behind by the current sexual

17:31

revolution in a way because

17:33

I feel like it didn't

17:36

make more faggots.

17:38

In my head.

17:39

Sometimes I'll be in Oakland and they'll be

17:41

like I'll be hanging out with like the trans girls

17:43

and the dolls, and all of them want to get

17:46

their trade and go move to Sacramento and

17:48

like live as white women in pick of fences.

17:50

And now download men feel like they can just

17:52

come in and fucking like, you know, you

17:56

bang up all the gay bussy and not fucking

17:58

owe nobody nothing. No

18:01

fact, it's still been't asked to marry me yet.

18:04

And for all this representation and all

18:06

this openness, Like, why do I still feel

18:08

like I don't know, I would have had

18:10

better luck if I had just had like a lavender marriage

18:12

in the fifties, You know, it

18:15

doesn't. I always want to feel like

18:17

there's a linear line we're moving towards

18:19

freedom, but we seem to always make this curve

18:22

back saying to the same old shit

18:24

we've been stuck in.

18:25

I've definitely found a couple of

18:28

men in my neighborhood that are faceless

18:30

profiles and are afraid of

18:33

being like seen on an

18:35

apple, like Sniffies because of work or

18:37

their family, right, So it's like they're kind of out of their social

18:40

circles, but they're not out of families at work,

18:42

and at least in my neighborhood. I mean, I live off Avenue

18:44

in Puerto Rico, but it's a lot of

18:46

Latino men. I'm

18:50

right at home, but it is a lot

18:52

of other Latino men.

18:53

Every time someone puts a face pic on Sniffy's

18:55

too, I'm like, Reez is desperate.

18:58

No one's there to be handsome,

19:01

you know. But actually there

19:04

was a while. There was a while. There was a

19:06

period of about six months where

19:08

I like didn't take any photos.

19:11

I just let dudes come over because

19:13

I was just like, how

19:16

do I say it? In my twenties,

19:18

I worked at the bathhouse, I worked at steam Marks.

19:21

Wow.

19:21

So there's something so crazy about like

19:24

having spent most of my life in

19:26

a situation where everyone's

19:28

in towels, everything's kind of revealed.

19:31

Men'll just walk up to you and grab your

19:33

dick and be like yes or no, and like

19:35

that's it. Where there's something about

19:37

when you're having sex with a DL dude,

19:40

he's coming to your house specifically

19:42

just to see you, and I never even

19:44

noticed how there's something actually magical

19:46

about it doesn't matter what his dick look like,

19:49

his body and also, to be honest, who

19:51

truly has an unattractive face? I

19:53

don't really think that that's like a true thing. Watching

19:55

someone just undress in front of you

19:58

and only be there for you is a way

20:00

different magic than this kind

20:02

of like you know this the

20:04

way gay man participate in that like kind

20:06

of bathhouse he like you're either cut

20:08

or you're not kind of culture. That's

20:11

kind of that was something

20:13

that I thought was really special,

20:16

And even as I transition into my next

20:18

phase, I'm trying to find

20:20

the outgay man that

20:23

does that for me, you

20:25

know, because that's the two things that I can't

20:27

seem to reconcile.

20:29

There's something that can feel very almost

20:32

romantic about that, right, the just

20:35

you experience, And there's a kind of intimacy

20:37

that I feel like closeted men actually

20:40

sort of emanate in

20:42

in trusting that.

20:43

This person is extremely vulnerable.

20:45

Right, we know that they are absolutely hiding

20:47

this part of themselves and they have chosen to come over.

20:50

They are exposing themselves in a way that they

20:52

wouldn't normally do.

20:54

Yeah, it's really vulnerable.

20:55

Yeah, for sure, this one download

20:57

trick. I've been seeing him for five years. I

21:00

bought his kid's soccer gear because

21:03

it's like, no.

21:04

Because stepmom, well, well,

21:08

because I looked.

21:09

I thought about it too, because I was like, I

21:11

was like you we were hanging out. I'm like, yo, like this

21:14

fool has been digging me down for five years.

21:17

Yeah, like, which is longer than most

21:19

any gay relationship. I was like, yeah,

21:21

you know what I'm saying. And my mom's boyfriends

21:23

were such dicks. I was just like, oh, the least

21:26

I could do is buy a kid's soccer gear to

21:28

say thank you or something.

21:29

So have you ever had a

21:32

relationship with the DL person and had them come out

21:35

as a results of your relationship.

21:38

I don't know.

21:39

I don't think they came out.

21:41

A lot of them struggle with the notion of

21:43

coming out. And these these are like

21:46

these are like gay and Latino

21:48

men like in their like forties and on,

21:51

like they're trying to catch up to

21:53

the gay revolution that happened in the nineties

21:55

much less like this whole like this

21:58

twenty twenty fourth thing, where doing

22:00

you know? So even sometimes when I'm

22:02

talking to them. I do have to think

22:05

though, like, oh, they are of that age

22:07

where like even when I moved to San Francisco,

22:09

right and I was having sex and

22:12

you know I was, I was like that pre

22:14

prep bug chasing having

22:17

sex with the Treasure Island media boys.

22:22

Yeah, you know, like we were.

22:23

But we were those boys in San Francisco in

22:25

the early two thousands, and like, remember

22:27

how dangerously we read to people.

22:30

But the generation just before us, they

22:33

were not having sex in their twenties like we

22:35

were because of like the age epidemic and like

22:37

how.

22:37

Scary it was.

22:39

And so now these men are like thrust into

22:41

a new era where

22:43

it's like, oh, like you have to

22:45

send a dick pic to get laid. Oh

22:48

I can bang people without contracting

22:50

HIV. But now that there's not the

22:52

stress of this, now I can deal with

22:54

this backlog of like emotional

22:57

stress around what does it mean to have sex

22:59

with a man? What if I like this person

23:01

and I keep coming to him? How do I say

23:03

this to my family?

23:04

You know, like.

23:07

It's it's really it's really interesting,

23:09

kind of like the helix of the

23:12

heliks of just like consciousness and

23:14

sex and all of them. I think I don't

23:17

think everyone's everyone's kind of fascinating.

23:19

It's fascinating to watch someone kind of learn

23:22

how to walk, and like how we're all

23:24

learning how to walk and reconfigure

23:26

it whatever age we're at, you

23:28

know.

23:29

Oh gosh, all right, we've had such

23:32

a good time with you. Unfortunately

23:36

we do have to end.

23:37

But I want to know what is coming up for you this summer

23:39

and where can people find you online?

23:42

I'm on rentman dot com word

23:45

right now, I'm like, not even charging.

23:48

I'm just doing the boyfriend experience as

23:50

long as you buy me records.

23:52

Yeah, totally.

23:53

And then I'm going on tour

23:55

with my band on the East Coast

23:58

this week, so you might not see that. But

24:01

this summer leaky around,

24:03

I'm finishing my sci fi book and

24:07

yeah, just vacationing, hanging out

24:09

in Oakland. So you can find me on Instagram

24:12

at Bronton's Parnell.

24:13

Oh my god, amazing. We'll have to take

24:15

a field trip and come up to visit you. Yes,

24:21

you can stay in the Sniffy office.

24:25

After the break, we will be talking to a deal

24:27

guy about his experience on Sniffi's and so

24:30

much more.

24:30

Stick around will be right back.

24:31

It's actually gonna be me.

24:41

So this is normally the portion of the show where

24:43

we list our guest achievements and plug his latest

24:46

product or release, but we can't do that today

24:48

because our guest is anonymous. We

24:50

aren't revealing any details about him because

24:52

he is closeted and we want to protect his privacy.

24:55

He is masked, and we are altering his voice.

24:57

We're really thankful for his willingness to come speak about

24:59

this top topic. Welcome to a cruising Confessions.

25:02

How you doing I'm doing good?

25:03

Yeah, yeah, amazing, Thanks for coming

25:05

on.

25:05

Thank you. I appreciate you guys.

25:07

Truly, No, we appreciate you being here. So

25:09

I think the first question is

25:12

one of a lot of people must be asking themselves.

25:14

Right, it's twenty twenty four. It

25:16

feels like, more than any

25:18

other time in history, it is safe for people to

25:20

come out. So what is it that makes you feel that

25:22

you need to stay closeted

25:25

or deal?

25:27

I think, like you said, I mean, the only reason why

25:29

you're so deal at this point is because

25:31

you feel like you need to because

25:34

it's New York, like, it's twenty twenty.

25:36

Four, and how long have you been

25:38

DL?

25:39

Fuck? All my life. Yeah,

25:42

I mean, I feel like there's stages

25:44

to d on this. I

25:47

was saying in the beginning, of course, it's like DL to the point

25:49

where you're not even sharing a picture of yourself,

25:52

and then there's DL where it's just like, Okay, some

25:54

people know, but like the core people

25:56

in my life don't know, you know. So

25:59

I feel like I've been DAL my whole life. But then i

26:01

just went through the chapters of d on this and I'm

26:03

in this face now where like some people

26:05

know, but like the people that

26:07

are like super core in my life there they don't know.

26:09

So, you know, it's like I'm DEAL to some

26:11

people, I'm not and then to other people like I'm

26:14

not the d O because they know who I am.

26:16

So, and do you do any

26:18

intermingling between those two groups of people

26:20

or do you keep them separate?

26:22

I don't know, we keep them separate. I

26:24

think no, that would be a disaster to

26:26

like mix them, because

26:28

it's like you're just like two different people, two different

26:30

worlds, you know, So I'm mixing them. You just

26:34

you put yourself in a really really fucked position.

26:37

Yeah, you know, for real.

26:38

I'm also curious, do you identify

26:41

as gay or bisexual.

26:43

Yeah, I'm definitely gay, but you

26:46

know, fun night's a fun night. Like if I

26:48

I think I had like I had a girlfriend of dated girls

26:51

blah bah blah, but you know, I

26:53

definitely want to focus on guys. It's super

26:55

different with guys, like especially with

26:57

like hook up culture. It's not this

27:00

same as like when you're dating like hetero

27:03

cis woman. I was telling I

27:05

think Adam the director, like

27:08

Sniffy's and all of that. It's like

27:11

it's like go Puffer Dick and

27:14

what's on demand at any time in any

27:16

city. It's probably in more cities than

27:18

fucking Uber. Oh yeah for sure.

27:20

For sure Sniffy's is international. We're here

27:23

like France, Germany.

27:25

Yeah, but not in the UAE or some shit.

27:29

Yeah.

27:29

Do you ever think there would be a time where you'd feel comfortable

27:31

coming out to close friends and family.

27:38

For the foreseeable future. No, the idea

27:40

of of me telling someone

27:43

like telling them like why would

27:45

I do that? Would I ever go to someone and be like,

27:47

oh, like I fucked this girl last

27:49

night? Like if anything, there should be a

27:51

choice, like when you first like are born, like oh

27:54

I want to know what X y Z is gonna be.

27:57

But now it's just like, oh, like where's

27:59

your wife? Like oh blah blah blah

28:01

when you're having kids, And how do you respond

28:03

to those questions when you get them depends on who it

28:05

is. Again, this goes back to

28:07

like certain people know I'm dh certain people don't.

28:10

But like if certain people ask me and I

28:12

don't want them to know, I go along with it, like you

28:14

know, I'm getting on. Maybe

28:18

someone would say like I'm lying

28:20

in a sense, but for me, it's

28:22

like I see it as protection.

28:25

Safety, true,

28:27

and that's the reality for people, right it might not be

28:29

someone's individual experience. And I think,

28:32

you know, we talked about this a brontest too. There's a lot of

28:34

folks in New York and San Francisco that are like, you need

28:36

to come out?

28:36

Why you come out?

28:38

I hate that song?

28:39

Well, yeah they don't.

28:40

Everyone's situation and experience is different,

28:42

and there are places where it's not safe. Sometimes around

28:44

family it's not safe. Sometimes with work it's not safe.

28:46

So yeah, for sure.

28:47

Facts And there was one time

28:49

I was in La. I

28:52

was in La just for personal reasons

28:54

and there was this guy

28:57

that I met and he was like he

28:59

was basically like demeaning me because

29:02

I wasn't out, and then he was telling

29:04

me and I was telling him that looked like it's so stressful,

29:06

blah blah blah, it's so stressful, like

29:08

I feel like the weight on my shoulders

29:10

touch shit. And he was on home. It

29:13

must not be that heavy if you haven't like came

29:15

out out. He's

29:17

tweaking like you know, it's just yeah, like

29:19

it's levels to d on this, and then there's like a

29:22

level of respect that you some

29:24

people should have.

29:26

Totally. Yeah, we got to meet

29:28

each other where we're at. Absolutely, yeah,

29:31

we got to meet each other.

29:31

Where we're at.

29:32

I'm curious if the opposite

29:35

is also true.

29:35

If you ever feel like you get people chasing after you

29:37

because your d O whenever you use an.

29:39

App, Yeah,

29:41

but it's mainly older guys. Interesting

29:44

young guys are not DL chasers,

29:46

Like it's always the older ones. It's always ones

29:48

that are like married or just

29:51

completely not in the mix at all.

29:54

But yeah, it's never young

29:56

guys. But honestly, even

29:59

if you are d teacher, like I don't care, like

30:02

most of the time we are, we both

30:04

want just one thing, so like, let's

30:07

just get it.

30:08

Yeah, at the end of the day, no matter

30:10

how we identify, and

30:13

they.

30:13

Don't care to be able to say page because

30:15

you're not dating them. You know, they only

30:17

people really only care if you're like dating each other.

30:20

What was like one of the

30:22

hottest hookups or meetups that you can remember

30:24

having.

30:25

I mean, it's pretty exploitit or like t M I,

30:27

but I didn't like I

30:30

didn't like, I didn't not for like a long

30:32

time. Okay, so you

30:34

were ready, Yeah, I was really ready, but then.

30:36

Your voice just dropped it often when he said you

30:38

were ready.

30:40

But then I went to the parkah, so

30:42

just like it's hell, are people here?

30:44

Apparently?

30:45

So I meet this like Puerto Rican guy and

30:47

you.

30:47

Know, we're like the one.

30:51

We're doing, the one doing the two and

30:53

this guy is just like watching us. But

30:55

like I think that what made it so

30:58

hot was like when I it was like a three day nuts when

31:00

I know, it was just so much and then

31:02

he just like he just not as

31:04

soon as I did that with the guy that was watching.

31:07

So that was probably the hottest,

31:09

just because it was just so much none. I was just like

31:11

it felt so good. But

31:13

other than that, like I feel like every time I do

31:16

it, it's hot, Like why would I do it? And it's not hot?

31:18

Like those are the type of people that have a problem

31:20

with like you're just out here fucking just the

31:22

fuck. Like it's okay to

31:24

like just do it as an activity, but like what

31:26

did you get from this? Like did you even enjoy it? You

31:29

know, like did you enjoy it? Or are you just doing it

31:31

just to do it?

31:32

So well, sometimes you don't know until you meet

31:34

up with the person, right, you think you're gonna enjoy it, and then you get

31:36

there and you're like, oops, maybe not.

31:38

Yeah, that's when you have

31:40

to do the Oh I got to go somewhere

31:43

or I have to do something or someone cold. Yeah,

31:45

because there's no point in doing it if there's not like a if

31:47

you're going to regret it after it's just like bro,

31:50

like it's not fun, not

31:52

fun at all.

31:53

Do you feel like you've ever been in, uh

31:56

something close to a relationship with another guy?

31:58

Oh?

31:58

Yeah, for sure, Like I've

32:00

been in a relationship where I was more recently,

32:03

like we were both on the same page in

32:05

terms of like out

32:07

or like halfway out. We're

32:09

both like halfway out, so we're very understanding

32:12

both family, same family problems, whatever. And

32:16

then I've been with a guy who is

32:18

like on the opposite page of me, like just

32:20

told his parents his whole team

32:22

knows blah blah blah,

32:25

and yeah, like I

32:27

don't know, Like it was definitely

32:29

different experiences, But I think

32:31

I must date someone on the same page

32:34

as me, because if not, like I

32:37

was looking cringed out the fact that you to his parents

32:39

like, damn, bro, like I don't have confident

32:41

in you anymore. Yeah,

32:46

he probably wasn't until his parents, Like I

32:48

don't see it. I don't want that. It's not fun

32:51

it whatsoever, so.

32:52

Scary and I'm out,

32:54

Like that seems really terrify. Ye, But

32:57

thinking about like when I wasn't out and then,

32:59

I mean.

32:59

I've always nowt, but like there was no there

33:01

was a couple of years where I was masquerading

33:03

as a straight man.

33:04

Oh yeah, see, you're giving

33:06

me flashbacks to like high school and college. Like

33:09

I was to school very out, but

33:11

in college I still hadn't come out to my parents.

33:13

Like I mean, I was dating men,

33:15

I was like going to a gay party. I was very

33:17

out socially, but I went to school

33:19

on Rhode Island. My parents were in Florida, so I was like, how the

33:22

fun Yeah, absolutely

33:24

not. And they're Puerto Rican, they're Catholic. I was like, okay,

33:26

I like I don't even want to start. And

33:28

then the funny thing is my first job out of

33:30

college was editing for a gay porn company. I

33:33

didn't tell them, but my mom found out about that. And

33:36

she found out about that before I had told

33:38

her myself I was gay.

33:39

She kind of knew, right, like your parents are our

33:42

suspect.

33:43

But it was just really funny because I had to come out to my mom

33:45

as like a gay porn editor and gay at the same

33:47

time.

33:48

But I thought they weren't good with technology. Bro, how

33:50

did they find out?

33:51

I'm like, how did she find out about this job?

33:53

So that was my fault.

33:54

I went on a comedy show because they were looking to

33:56

interview a porn producer. Oh

33:58

god, but it was like a how Many Central show? And I

34:01

was like, my mom doesn't watch Comedy Central? Houck is

34:03

she ever gonna find this? This was like well before like

34:05

like YouTube was huge, or like

34:07

she had a smartphone, even like I

34:09

didn't even have a smartphone. I did that interview and

34:12

she only found it because I think she was getting divorced from

34:14

my dad, and my dad found it and like tried to bring

34:17

it up for I don't know how to piss her off or something.

34:19

So it's just really funny. And I was like, yeah, yeah,

34:21

you did see that interview. It was funny, right, Like it

34:24

was wild.

34:24

Mom, I hope you're not watching Sniffies.

34:29

To be fair, I did not have a mask on when I did

34:31

my interview. I was very Yeah,

34:34

I was face out. I had a mustache. It

34:36

was hard to miss.

34:39

Yeah. The thing about these you never know, like you

34:41

never know who's DL obviously d O. So

34:43

like anyone can be watching this, like

34:45

my fucking uncles or my dad. That

34:48

shit is wild. But I'm not

34:50

updating anything on LinkedIn, and so like we

34:52

should be good. Yeah,

34:53

yeah,

34:56

I'm not going like a j letter or like out

34:58

magazine or some shit.

35:00

I mentioned a LinkedIn status like I'm bravely

35:02

coming out as DL.

35:05

Podcast. Yeah I love

35:07

that.

35:09

That's an exclusive. That's good for you guys.

35:11

Yeah, we did get the exclusive. We get

35:13

that sixty minutes blurred face voice.

35:16

Yeah, this is great. I feel like a journalist. It's

35:18

giving budget it's giving budget.

35:21

It's giving budget.

35:23

All right.

35:23

Well, thank you so much for showing up and sitting

35:25

down with us and having a conversation. It's

35:27

been such a pleasure getting to know you a little bit better.

35:30

Yeah, really appreciate it. Your stories are really

35:32

hot and it was also kind of fun. And I

35:34

you know, I hope one day this does become less stressful

35:36

for you. But I think you've offered so much insight

35:38

to our audience on why some

35:40

people might not feel ready or safe

35:42

coming out. And I think it's really important to again,

35:45

like Chris said to me, people where they're at for sure.

35:47

Me where I am. It's a good

35:49

position.

35:50

In the park.

35:50

Maybe another

35:55

Puerto Rican in the park. Stick

35:58

around, don't go anywhere.

36:05

Today's episode was really great.

36:07

Yeah, And what I hope that people get

36:09

from it, whether you're out or you're not out, that

36:11

there is a place for you in this world, and

36:13

if you aren't finding what you're looking

36:15

for in terms of like community, that

36:18

just go where it's warm, you know, find the people

36:20

that do care about who you are and where your safety

36:22

lies, and go to them. You know.

36:25

Yeah, I think one of the biggest takeaways

36:27

for me from this episode is how often we point

36:29

the finger people who are in the closet or DL

36:32

folks and call them liars

36:34

and you know, to tell them that they

36:36

are holding sort of internalized

36:38

homophobia. But what I've gotten

36:41

from the conversation with our last guest in particular,

36:43

is that it's usually external forces that

36:45

make people feel pressure to stay in the closet.

36:47

I don't think it's an individual's fault. It's our

36:50

culture.

36:50

It's a mentality of homophobia and

36:52

queer phobia that still pervades so many

36:55

parts of our culture and cultures

36:58

around the globe. So really, to me, it

37:00

seems like an institutional and cultural problem.

37:02

And I hope that the next time, you know, you

37:04

feel the urge to read someone down for being in

37:06

the closet or identifying as DL, you

37:08

think about the external factors that might be playing

37:11

into that decision, and how for some people

37:13

it really is a matter of.

37:14

Security, yeah, and safety, you know.

37:16

All right, Well, that is the end of this episode

37:18

of Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

37:20

Thank you so much for joining us.

37:22

It's been such a wild ride, and we hope you tune

37:25

in for the next one. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions

37:27

is directed by Adam Barron, produced by Stevie

37:29

Williams and Karen mc femino, and executive produced

37:31

by Elin Martin.

37:33

Cruising Confessions is presented by Sniffy's,

37:35

the ultimate map based cruising.

37:37

Platform for gay by and curious people

37:39

ready to cruise.

37:40

Check out the map at snippies dot com and follow

37:42

Sniffy's on socials at Snippy's app.

37:45

Put job Good, put job, put put

37:48

Joe puts up