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This is a CBC Broadcasting.

0:34

The

0:35

following episode contains references

0:37

to suicide, so please take

0:39

care.

0:49

He basically took our piece away.

0:51

It was just like a constant heart

0:54

of yelling and pursuing and

0:56

at choosing everybody.

1:14

Hi. Is this Adele? Yes, sir.

1:17

So thanks for I've reached Adele Elseri,

1:20

Nadia at which his cousin in Alberta.

1:23

Adele is something of a public figure

1:25

in the Edmonton Lebanese community and

1:27

is known as an outspoken supporter of

1:29

Nadia and advocate for investigations

1:32

into her disappearance.

1:34

So with Nadia, there's a lot of details

1:36

that public don't Knows,

1:38

and it's time to shine light on it.

1:41

Adele tells me that Nadia and

1:43

her husband, Arif Nish, were in

1:45

the process of divorcing.

1:48

So I had denied his

1:50

disappearance. Ali actually already

1:52

islamically divorced her.

1:55

Can

1:55

you explain islamically divorced versus

1:58

divorced in Canadian law?

2:00

Yeah. So like Islamic Ridgen

2:02

isn't covered under the government of Canada.

2:05

It's a piece of paper that's your Muslim your

2:07

Muslim married, but at the end of the day,

2:09

you want that legit and everything you gotta get

2:11

married in as well because that's how

2:13

it's just a mess. So we get married

2:15

twice.

2:16

Okay. So you're suggesting that the Islamic

2:18

divorce happened but not the Canadian

2:20

divorce. So the Canadian divorce

2:23

obviously takes a lot longer. and

2:26

Ali began their separation or trial

2:28

period in the process of Islamic divorce

2:31

in the months leading up to her disappearance.

2:34

They were still married under Canadian

2:36

law, but the intimacy that is permitted

2:38

with a religious marriage would have ceased

2:41

in the relationship. He doesn't

2:42

even sleep with her. Like,

2:44

he treats her, like, kind of, like, just a

2:47

in the way.

2:48

Whether this is relevant to her

2:50

disappearance is Knows, but

2:53

Adel says it was known in the community

2:55

that Ali was seeing other women.

2:59

But slowly and slowly everything would getting

3:01

uncovered. Like, when you have friends

3:03

telling you, oh, I've seen this guy with a chick in

3:05

public.

3:06

So, eventually, he didn't

3:08

care anymore, and he was just doing

3:10

it openly for everyone to notice.

3:15

Did you, witness

3:17

Ali with another woman. Did you ever see him

3:19

with somebody else?

3:21

Me, personally, I haven't.

3:23

But, like, I had in boxes

3:26

from so like, I'd say least three,

3:28

four different women sending

3:31

me screenshots of their

3:33

conversation at the moment,

3:35

at the time, the second day, not just

3:37

missing.

3:38

About him saying, oh, I just wanna cuddle

3:41

my ex wife, I'm missing, but I'm

3:43

still helping look for her, and I'm all

3:45

over the Knows. Like, he

3:47

was using that

3:49

to get with girls on dating sites and they

3:51

were sending me personally the screenshot.

3:54

It was

3:54

unbelievable.

3:57

Adel

3:57

says most of the messages are still on

3:59

his

3:59

phone. He

4:00

sends me one that helps augment other

4:03

information I have found that shows

4:05

Aileen was using a dating app

4:07

as early as January two thousand eighteen,

4:10

just a few weeks after Nadia

4:12

went missing. Nadia

4:14

ever tell you about having an issue or

4:16

a problem with Ellie, or did she ever

4:18

confess any kind of worries she might

4:20

have had about the relationship? Yeah.

4:23

Not to call me at least the one in

4:25

the past saying, hey, I'm arguing

4:27

with Atwi right now if anything happens

4:29

to them. I I used Like, we all kinda

4:31

live in the same area within a five

4:33

to seven Bennett Drive. She

4:35

if anything happened, can I call you

4:37

to come over? I said, sure, because anything

4:39

you need, you just call me and I'll come over.

4:41

She never ended up calling. I

4:44

don't know if that was, like, four months before

4:46

the disappearance or three months

4:48

by around that time. Like,

4:50

Nadia is very strong and independent.

4:52

So she used to tell her dad

4:54

mom every everything everything and they

4:56

always would support and no matter what

4:58

the situation is.

5:01

Adele points his finger in Ali's direction

5:03

based on how he saw Ali acting

5:06

before and after Nadia's disappearance.

5:09

He tells me that during the initial searches

5:11

for Nadia, Ali was seemingly

5:14

un bothered. The guy

5:16

was literally driving around with two or

5:18

three buddies, all they're just pretending they're

5:20

involved in the search. Like, there

5:22

was no emotion And

5:24

I know that the missing person poster

5:26

that Ali made caused quite a

5:28

stir with Nadia's family and friends.

5:32

It looks like the worst picture

5:34

you could possibly pick and

5:36

makes the person look like a lunatic

5:39

and that's the picture he blew up and brought

5:41

to the Conway victory. The

5:44

conflict between Ali and Nadia's

5:46

family started for her

5:48

disappearance according to people

5:50

I have spoken to. There were

5:52

tensions during family visits, Ali

5:55

wouldn't allow their son, Mohammed, to

5:57

receive gifts from Nadia's family and

5:59

what seemed a general divestment of

6:01

involvement. In the aftermath

6:03

of her disappearance, it all boiled over

6:06

at a vigil for Nadia on December

6:08

seventeenth, nine days

6:10

after she went missing. Nadia's

6:12

sister-in-law was speaking at the vigil when

6:14

it happened.

6:15

Knows here means that you

6:17

Knows what you're trying to So

6:20

then she's editing the speech

6:23

and

6:24

Allie

6:25

interrupt the speech and

6:27

you guys are the reason she's

6:29

missing.

6:30

If all you guys is called,

6:32

So

6:36

then

6:39

like, back up, back

6:42

up, and then, obviously, then

6:45

shift storm broke out.

6:56

I'm David Rigenant. welcome to the

6:58

next call. Episode two

7:00

in the case of Nadia Atwi.

7:10

Following the vigil incident, Ali

7:12

filed a civil claim against Adel

7:14

for damages. In

7:17

an affidavit, Ali writes that

7:19

he and his mother who was also in attendance

7:22

were physically assaulted at the vigil by

7:24

members of Nadia's extended family.

7:27

Given all the animosity, I

7:29

wonder if Adele has ever tried to talk

7:31

to Ali about the day Nadia disappeared.

7:33

David

7:36

you ever ask Ali directly about what happened

7:38

that day? Or did you give an explanation of to

7:40

you directly about what happened? I'm

7:42

gonna go back. This is adopted from

7:44

his mouth to me on the first day of

7:46

searching. I said, what happened, brother?

7:48

What is going on? What? Where's Nacho? What

7:50

happened? He

7:52

said, you know, we got no argument

7:53

at night, and

7:55

she was texting me, like,

7:57

three. three thirty in the morning, Tony. Are you

7:59

coming to

7:59

bed? And we were fighting,

8:02

and then I ended up following the sleep.

8:04

And

8:04

then she woke up and she

8:06

went to work in the morning around normal

8:09

time,

8:09

and I was sleeping when I seen her get

8:12

ready to hurt her and she left. And

8:13

I'm putting that

8:14

There are no official confirmations that

8:17

Nadia sent Ali a text. But

8:19

as the story goes, at three AM

8:22

on the day that Nadia went missing, She

8:24

asks when is coming to

8:26

bed. Ali replies

8:28

soon. But recall that

8:30

Adele told me that Nadia and Ali weren't

8:33

sleeping together. I'll try to

8:35

find out more about this message or

8:37

conversation. The argument that

8:39

Adele says Aly told him

8:41

about has not been reported in

8:43

any other media to my knowledge. However,

8:45

Aly seems to make reference to this

8:47

dispute himself in a public

8:49

statement he made on December seventeenth. as

8:52

well. I wanna

8:52

tell her, come back today. I

8:55

would put everything on the side. I

8:57

would forget about what happened. We're

8:59

gonna start a new life with the

9:01

new things, with the new happy things, and

9:03

forget about all the past. Just

9:05

please Come back.

9:06

Ali says he would forget about

9:09

what happened and put everything

9:11

on the side and also

9:13

forget about all the past. I

9:15

wonder what his meaning of these phrases

9:17

might be. I know that

9:19

Ali also fell under suspicion for

9:21

not tearing up in previous public

9:23

pleas following Nadia's disappearance.

9:25

But people react to

9:27

loss and extreme stress in unpredictable

9:30

ways, so none of this proves anything.

9:33

Nadia, if

9:35

she could have left Ali

9:37

and fell still, like,

9:40

proud

9:40

of herself, I think she would've

9:42

did it, but she didn't want the burden

9:44

of everyone, like, oh my

9:46

god. Like, she got divorced and she

9:48

had the kids, like, the normal

9:50

sing. You know what I mean with, like -- Sure.

9:52

-- public. She just wanted to prove

9:54

to everyone and her family and her husband

9:57

that she'll stand by him. because

9:58

our culture really stand

9:59

by the husband.

10:01

Nadia

10:03

met Ali a few years before she

10:06

graduated from the University of Alberta with

10:08

a bachelor of education. Ali

10:10

lived in Lebanon at the time, so

10:12

they began video calling regularly.

10:15

Eventually, they married in June two thousand

10:17

twelve, but Ali didn't come to

10:19

Canada until the following year in

10:21

two thousand thirteen. I

10:23

think that Adele's suspicions about

10:25

Ali might color his interpretation of

10:28

what he has seen and heard. I

10:30

wonder about any information he may have

10:32

received from police. Did the

10:35

police ever tell you any of the details that

10:37

Ali had mentioned to them? Knows.

10:39

So they can't tell us any details

10:42

hypothetically. And

10:45

police won't talk to me either.

10:47

Their media relations officer and the

10:49

lead detective declined talking to

10:51

me at this time. I

10:53

tried to redirect talking about anything

10:56

he thinks can be verified about

10:58

Nadia's disappearance. This

11:00

is

11:00

a very, very important thing

11:02

that a lot of people or don't know.

11:04

In their car, they had a dashcam

11:07

video.

11:09

Tell me what I

11:11

tell you this. No.

11:12

She didn't. The the car that was found at Randall

11:15

Park. And then the car that was found

11:17

in Randall Park, I

11:19

have them in my car. I have the

11:21

back same brand from Amazon. It

11:23

works on motion. So if

11:25

you walk in front of the thing, it'll turn on.

11:27

And then when you start driving, it caught

11:29

record. It records noises

11:31

inside, and it records

11:33

everything outside. So Okay. And

11:35

it records within twenty

11:37

four hours. So when

11:39

everything happened,

11:41

the cops seized the vehicle, and

11:45

Ali, a couple days later,

11:47

said, oh, I got dashcam video

11:49

back from the police. Come watch it. Come

11:51

watch it.

11:52

So he called not just

11:54

hold his brother, and then cell

11:57

was brother from Toronto was in town.

11:59

So then too I watched

12:02

him. And then I went

12:04

and even played the video for

12:06

me. So

12:07

what did you see? Tried not to tell

12:09

me what you thought of it. Tell me what

12:11

you saw.

12:13

Okay. So if

12:15

someone literally reversing out

12:17

of a garage going

12:19

on the driveway and then

12:22

driving, driving

12:23

around the

12:24

whole time, like, Ridgen

12:27

Freeman telling us, oh, look, she's

12:29

driving too fast. Oh, she's switching lanes.

12:31

Oh, look. She's almost in around this lane. She

12:33

almost rear ended this person. her

12:35

whole lane is giving us this montage.

12:39

at the end of the day, I just seen a normal person

12:41

pretty much driving to be honest. Maybe,

12:43

yeah, like, it's morning traffic or

12:45

whatever and you're switching lanes or whatever.

12:47

But if someone was crying

12:50

and, like, gonna kill

12:52

himself, I don't know what happened,

12:54

but the voice recorder, record

12:57

everything. And there

12:58

was no one thing David, it's

13:01

at

13:01

the little muscle like

13:03

Breta.

13:04

For one millisecond,

13:06

that

13:06

muffled. They even called

13:09

Nadia as mom and her dad and

13:11

everyone to the police station. and,

13:12

like, blew

13:13

up the noise, put them on headphones to

13:16

say, is this not just voice? Do you guys recognize

13:18

this voice from anywhere? and

13:20

they all gave to the conclusion that's not just

13:23

voice. I

13:26

just wanted to hear her voice, and

13:28

then I'd be like, okay. maybe not

13:30

just

13:30

something happened with not just, like

13:33

I

13:33

don't know. Maybe she was having a

13:35

a very sad time. I don't know. but

13:38

there was no voice, no

13:40

crying, no weeping, no nothing.

13:43

Okay.

13:43

So the very

13:46

important thing about the gosh camera video.

13:48

So, Naja, you never see her or

13:50

you never hear her? Okay. So

13:51

does the car end up at Randall Park?

13:54

For

13:54

Randall Park, you and the

13:57

park, and then there's a long

13:59

drive. That's a

13:59

little bumpy hill and pulling turns and

14:02

circles of up and down

14:04

because it goes into a river valley,

14:06

and then

14:06

there's a lull course. You gotta go

14:08

super slow. Like, there's so much bumps and

14:10

turns. Right? So right when

14:12

this thing starts entering Randall

14:14

Park within probably three

14:18

minutes before the

14:20

car when it crashed and kinda went

14:22

down the hill and hit deep pushes.

14:24

The video

14:24

all of a sudden turns off.

14:27

okay Okay.

14:28

So, like, all waiting for Corporation

14:31

this whole I just wanna jump,

14:33

tracking fast forward the and let

14:35

me see when she crashes. I

14:36

wanna see if I hear her say, oh,

14:39

or, like, see, like, something like

14:41

I'm gonna kill myself and, like, turn

14:43

over the corner and, like, try

14:46

to break Knows in bushes to get to a river

14:48

that's near impossible because such a

14:50

heavy bush. The video freaking

14:52

turns off. So

14:54

how do you turn it off? How could you turn

14:56

it off if you wanted to?

14:57

The only way you could turn it off

14:59

is, like, literally holding

15:01

the off line for, like, three seconds,

15:04

and

15:04

you need to plug them to your Internet

15:06

thing. To

15:07

keep the charge, and then if it has a charge, it will

15:09

stay on if you unplug it. Right? and

15:12

then physically have to hold the

15:14

thing. But

15:14

it doesn't make sense why would

15:16

she turn off the video,

15:19

raise before, like, maybe two

15:21

minutes before she's gonna crash.

15:25

At risk of stating the obvious either

15:28

Nadia drove the car to the

15:30

park or someone else did.

15:32

If the driver was Nadia, what

15:34

was her intention? and were there

15:36

other forces at play? Did

15:39

her journey and disappearance in that case

15:41

ultimately end in suicide? If

15:44

the driver was not Nadia, then

15:47

something else is afoot. But

15:49

would somebody else take the car to

15:51

the park, crash it, put

15:53

Nadia's shoe outside, and

15:55

leave her cell phone inside to make it

15:57

look like Nadia had done it.

15:59

Seems

15:59

like

15:59

a pretty risky thing to do in a

16:02

public setting. Another reason

16:04

why the timing of when the car was

16:06

first seen in the park is important.

16:07

Another

16:10

person I spoke to who says they saw

16:12

the dashcam told me the car

16:14

made a circuit through the park,

16:16

then drove out and around the city for

16:18

a bit, then reentered the

16:20

park, and went dead as Adel

16:22

describes. Does this

16:24

show the driver trying to reconsider

16:26

their actions or waiting for the

16:28

right moment and for what?

16:30

lots of nuanced and some not so

16:33

nuanced questions here.

16:35

Did you see

16:38

a time stamp on the video?

16:40

or

16:40

a date? I didn't I mean, personally,

16:42

I didn't pay attention to the

16:44

time staff in the date -- Okay. -- about what

16:46

I do over there.

16:47

Another person who spoke to me

16:50

on condition of anonymity, who also viewed

16:52

the dashcam footage, tells me

16:54

that the timestamps were off by a day

16:56

or two, possibly due to the

16:58

unit not being programmed correctly. However,

17:00

they say police estimated the video

17:02

was recorded between six and seven

17:05

AM on the morning that Nadia was

17:07

last seen. The driving portion of video

17:09

indicates that it was still dark

17:11

out. Sunrise in Edmonton that

17:13

day was around eight thirty AM.

17:16

Adele says that the

17:18

dashcam turns off before the

17:20

crash. But then it turns

17:22

back on again, apparently actuated

17:24

by the arrival of police on the scene,

17:27

after four PM that afternoon

17:29

when it would have been getting dark at that

17:31

time of year. Mhmm.

17:32

So if pitch

17:35

dark, and you hear cops

17:38

walking around the vehicle and

17:40

talking. And

17:42

then the next time

17:44

it turns on, is the detective is

17:47

in his

17:47

office and he must have figured out how to turn

17:49

it on and he's aiming it at his

17:52

shoes. because, like,

17:52

he's looking at the back of it, so the

17:55

camera's aiming down. And then

17:56

it turns on again, and it's, like, a

17:58

officer's shoes in the office. It doesn't

18:00

show his face. It just shows his feet.

18:02

and then he lifted up and he turns it

18:05

off. And then that was the end end of

18:07

the

18:08

video. I

18:10

ask Adel if anything else stood out

18:12

to him.

18:14

Okay. If Nigel was brought

18:16

for a bit premature Knows, Wouldn't

18:18

there have been a recent signal for print?

18:21

Wouldn't there be a single

18:22

thing from where their car is to the

18:25

Ridgen?

18:26

heavy bush. heavy

18:28

bush, and it's another

18:30

four

18:30

to six minutes if they're one

18:33

and probably heavy bush to get to

18:35

the river. Adel

18:37

suggests no footprints were found

18:39

at all. It makes sense that if

18:42

Nadia drove the car, she might have left footprints

18:44

behind, but If

18:46

someone else drove the car, they also

18:48

would have left footprints. Without

18:50

police involvement, I can't know whether they

18:52

found footprints or who they

18:55

belong to. and

18:56

then the river at the bank

18:58

that we were on

18:59

was frozen

19:02

solid. The only side that wasn't

19:04

frozen with the off took the of the

19:06

river. But at the time, did

19:07

the police not look at the river? Do you know or

19:09

do you know if they did? They did

19:11

the helicopter

19:12

searches. They did the

19:14

people searching the dog, searching all that

19:17

stuff. But you have to wait till the

19:19

river unfreezes for them to

19:21

search the river.

19:22

Every fall

19:24

for at least the past four

19:26

years, the Edmonton police missing

19:28

persons unit conducts an annual search of

19:30

the North Saskatchewan River when

19:33

water levels are low, looking

19:35

for human remains. But to

19:37

date, there has been no sign of

19:40

I don't know this is Sky an river

19:42

in Edmonton there. Does it stay frozen all

19:44

winter or is it just partly frozen No.

19:47

It stays three quarters usually frozen.

19:49

It's not like almost all of them.

19:52

Okay. Yeah. In

19:54

cold

19:54

or near freezing water, it could

19:57

take several weeks to several

19:59

months for a body to

20:01

resurface Then there's the issue of

20:03

the flow of the river. A woman

20:05

named Cheyenne Partridge went missing from

20:07

the Edmonton area in two thousand

20:10

sixteen, and her body was found in the Saskatchewan

20:12

over five hundred kilometers as

20:14

the river flows from where she is thought to

20:16

have entered the water.

20:20

used her phone and kept telling them

20:22

okay after the next month, nine months. She wrapped

20:25

up every bill possible under

20:27

her name. Sawa

20:29

received calls from a credit collection agency

20:32

that I have verified that

20:34

shows that the credit card was being used after

20:37

Nadia disappeared. Adele

20:39

believes it was Ali who was

20:41

using it, but I cannot

20:43

verify if the credit card wasn't simply a

20:45

shared account with Ali. And

20:47

according to Adel and

20:49

Sawa, Ali also continued

20:51

to use Nadia's phone number,

20:53

something I have also been able

20:55

to verify. After

20:58

she disappeared, After

20:59

she disappeared,

21:00

Naja would never leave

21:02

her alone. That was

21:03

her life, like she had a

21:06

best,

21:06

best, best buddy.

21:08

Adel, despite

21:10

his bias, has been helpful about

21:12

filling in some of the blanks in Nadia's

21:14

timeline the morning she disappeared.

21:16

Ridgen while it is true

21:19

that without police, putting

21:21

together a clear sequence of events for

21:23

Nadia's case will be more difficult,

21:25

I think I'm getting

21:27

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22:10

take a break to tell you about another podcast I think you might like.

22:12

If you're looking for more investigations,

22:15

check out my other series, the

22:17

next call. conducted

22:19

almost exclusively through a series of strategic

22:21

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22:24

how I will investigate cases and

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follow leads. There

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are three seasons available to binge listen

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to now. Find the next call

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on CBC Listen or wherever you

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get your podcasts. Now

22:36

back to someone knows something.

22:41

Doctor Hart speaking. Hello? Hi,

22:44

doctor Samma. It's David Ridgen calling

22:46

here from Toronto. You

22:47

were calling I think about Nadia

22:50

Edwards. Yes. That's right. So

22:52

I'm doing it.

22:52

Doctor USama alatar is

22:55

a religious leader within Edmonton's

22:57

Muslim community. He's also the

22:59

principal of al bhatia academy

23:01

the k to twelve private s school where

23:03

Nadia and her mother taught. So

23:05

I call him principal USama.

23:08

I'm hoping he can add to Nadia's timeline on the day

23:10

she disappeared, but he also knew

23:12

Nadia well and saw her at work. So

23:16

maybe just tell me a little bit about

23:18

the school and what Nadia used to do there.

23:21

Nadia was

23:21

the kindergarten teacher when we

23:23

started four years ago And

23:26

tell

23:26

me maybe a little bit about Nadia herself

23:28

and as a teacher and a person. Anything

23:30

you noticed about her?

23:32

She is an angel. that's

23:34

really what I can sum it up as. Very

23:37

quiet person. So her mom

23:39

was with her in the class as an

23:41

assistant. so the

23:42

junior accent and the senior accent. They

23:44

both work together, working together as a

23:46

teacher and an assistant teacher. For

23:48

the Intercon class, she would look

23:50

after the she would follow the

23:53

protocol, she would adhere to the

23:55

rules, she would attend to the

23:57

meetings. She was extremely punct

23:59

she will arriving

23:59

every day at the specified time.

24:02

So she was a

24:05

great teacher teacher. And you

24:07

witnessed her teaching, and you saw how

24:09

she interacted with students? Yes.

24:11

Yes. I would go there every now and then,

24:13

and I would see how she interacts with

24:15

students and how conducting her

24:18

classes. Was there ever

24:20

a moment where she didn't come unannounced

24:22

or she wouldn't let you know if she wasn't

24:24

coming to school? No. No.

24:27

What

24:27

was the timing around Nadia

24:29

coming and going from school?

24:31

Yes. So our hours are from eight

24:33

AM to four PM. she would usually

24:35

arrive around eight

24:36

AM, and she would usually

24:39

leave shortly after four PM.

24:40

And arrival, would she come usually

24:42

with her mom or sometimes without her mom? No. It's

24:44

with her mom. They both look close to each

24:46

other on the north end of the city. The

24:48

school was on the south end

24:50

of the city. about

24:52

a forty plus, you know, they were taking

24:54

minutes drive. Okay. And then they

24:56

would switch off. Putting together this piece

24:58

of chronology based on time

25:00

she says she got from the neighbor's doorbell camera, southwest

25:03

told me she arrived to pick up Nadia

25:05

at her home around seven twenty

25:07

four on the morning Nadia disappeared.

25:10

December eighth two thousand seventeen.

25:12

The doorbell camera did not have a

25:14

view of Nadia or the car leaving

25:17

the garage. There were other cameras

25:19

around, but it isn't clear that any of

25:21

them captured anything either. Salwa

25:23

leaves at about seven twenty

25:25

eight, and according to principal Usama,

25:27

they would both always be on time for the

25:30

school's eight AM start. Ridgen

25:33

relationship with her mother while they were teaching

25:35

was positive and I

25:37

did not anything that would tell me or

25:40

suggest

25:40

otherwise. I moved

25:42

to Nadia's

25:43

mental health and the

25:45

extent to which her diagnosis of

25:47

bipolar disorder could have evidenced itself

25:49

in her day to day interactions.

25:51

So

25:52

to be clear, she never disclosed

25:54

that to us at the time of hiring.

25:56

I did

25:57

not observe anything that would

25:59

raise an

25:59

alarm like I would find

26:02

anything alarming about her

26:04

seeing with the children, then obviously, I

26:06

would definitely keep the safety

26:08

of the children first. And

26:11

throughout the three months

26:13

approximately that she worked at Helbacher Academy,

26:15

she was looking after kids

26:17

things

26:17

are being Students are learning. I have not

26:19

had a single complaint from a parent who's

26:21

saying, for example, my child came home today and he

26:23

or she said this or the teacher said

26:26

this.

26:27

Do you think

26:30

that she was suicidal or that she

26:33

would have killed herself?

26:36

I don't

26:37

know. I cannot

26:38

say that. Again, I'm not a psychologist. From

26:41

my interaction with her, I have nothing

26:43

to demonstrate this. For example,

26:46

teachers usually undergo

26:48

an assessment every year where me

26:50

as a principal would have to go and

26:52

assess their performance. So it's all

26:55

prearranged where I just come in and I

26:57

observed the teacher. And then based on that

26:59

observation, I would give him or her some

27:01

feedback. And so Nadia's

27:03

turn was coming up and she had

27:05

actually emailed me her

27:07

lesson plans and she had

27:09

sent her work. We had discussed her

27:11

assessment and so on and so forth. So

27:13

nothing to

27:14

me would

27:15

suggest that she would not

27:18

be engaged in any source.

27:21

My

27:22

opinion is that we can never know

27:25

if or when someone might think about

27:27

suicide or act on

27:29

those thoughts. People can live day to

27:31

day in a silent darkness and we might

27:33

never know. Sometimes,

27:35

you just

27:35

have to

27:37

ask.

27:39

What was the last interaction you remember

27:42

with Nadia? Yeah. It was Thursday

27:44

because she disappeared on

27:46

a Friday. that

27:48

I remember vividly that Thursday because it

27:50

was winter. So

27:52

the evening

27:53

prayer that Muslims prayed dawned or

27:55

started at about four thirty PM.

27:57

So her and her

27:58

mom said, you know what? We're

27:59

gonna pray with you, your mom, before we

28:02

go home. So they came

28:04

for

28:04

some and they half

28:06

an hour. Maybe they were working. They were preparing

28:08

for their next day. So some teachers

28:10

do that. So at four thirty, they

28:12

came. They joined me for the

28:14

evening prayers. And that's

28:17

when I said goodbye, you know, God bless

28:19

you and so on and so forth. But just like

28:21

an ordinary day no hint

28:24

of any sort.

28:26

However, the next day was anything

28:29

but ordinary. This

28:32

part is important because you

28:35

witnessed events across the day that

28:37

NetEase disappeared on December eighth

28:39

two thousand seventeen. So I'm

28:41

interested in how that day started for you

28:43

and then what happened during that

28:45

day? So

28:45

her mom came in the

28:48

morning and she

28:50

came to my office, and she said, didn't any of

28:52

contact you this morning? I was like, no.

28:54

I was like, what's going on? She's

28:56

like, well, she did not come to pick me up

28:58

this morning. And she's not

29:00

answering her phone. So I drove to school

29:03

myself. So I said,

29:05

okay. Well, let me try. So I

29:07

tried calling her, but I

29:09

couldn't reach her. So

29:11

I said to her mom,

29:13

well, maybe she had

29:15

something that just came up last minute, although

29:17

this is unusual of her. but

29:19

we'll see, you know, that's as the

29:21

day commences, obviously, we have to enter

29:23

our duties.

29:24

What time did Sawa come to

29:26

the school? Do you remember what time that

29:29

was?

29:29

Around eight ish.

29:34

The

29:34

school brought in a supply teacher to assist

29:36

Sawa with Nadia's class.

29:38

Principal USama and Sawa continued

29:40

to make calls trying to locate

29:43

Nadia Then as the morning

29:45

crept on, the already escalating anxiety

29:47

came to a head at around twelve

29:49

noon when principal USama

29:51

says, Ali showed up at his office

29:53

him worried. And he

29:55

said, have you heard of anything?

29:57

He said, no. I haven't seen Nadia.

29:59

She

29:59

has not been to the school yet.

30:02

So

30:02

then later on, and the day

30:04

is when the husband calls me and he says,

30:06

well, I've reported Nadia missing to the

30:09

police. Do

30:11

you remember anything about his

30:13

behavior or what he's appeared

30:15

to be -- No. I don't remember.

30:17

Usually, in a school setting, you know, we don't have

30:19

that much time. So then he came in, and

30:21

I think he was really quick. He said, like, you

30:23

know, has has she been around? Did she come in? And

30:25

I was like, you know, she has So

30:27

then he said, okay, and then he left.

30:30

Okay. Do

30:30

you know if he had reported or

30:32

missing at that time or before he called

30:34

you? Like, around the time he called, or do

30:37

you think sure to be honest when he called me. He said

30:39

that I've reported her missing. And,

30:41

of course, that was alarming for

30:43

us. There

30:45

is some discrepancy surrounding

30:47

when Ali first reported Nadia

30:50

missing. Salwa remembers Ali's

30:52

midday visit to the school, although

30:54

he never spoke to her.

30:56

Instead, he went to another teacher, she

30:58

says, and asked her where

31:00

Nadia was. Sauer

31:02

remembers being told that Ali had

31:04

made a call to Edmonton police happening around the

31:06

same time. I

31:08

am left wondering what happened to

31:10

make Ali go to the school in

31:12

the first place If

31:14

everything was normal that morning, why

31:16

go to the school and ask if anyone

31:18

had seen her? And if he thought

31:20

she was missing before going to

31:22

the school, Why did he not call the

31:24

police sooner? I really want

31:26

to nail down what time

31:28

Ali called them. Back

31:30

to principal USama, I wonder

31:32

if the principal spoke to Ali before

31:34

he arrived at the school.

31:37

And in the ear calling up in that morning,

31:39

had you called Ali two and tried

31:41

to reach him yourself? No. I did

31:44

not. Okay. So he didn't call and leave a

31:46

message and say, where's Nadia? He just

31:48

called you on his own. Like, there was no.

31:50

Right. And his words were to the

31:52

effect of Have you heard anything? Do you know

31:54

where Nadia is?

31:55

Yeah. Okay. Something along this lines.

31:57

So I said, well, you know, we're

31:59

praying for her safety, then

32:01

let me know what happened but he didn't tell me she

32:03

was reported missing at that time.

32:05

I

32:05

asked principal USama if

32:08

Nadia ever approached him with

32:10

a problem. seeking his advice.

32:12

It has

32:12

never happened. The interaction

32:14

were all positive from day one -- Yeah.

32:16

-- you know, the day I interviewed her, the way the

32:18

day I we hired her. Mhmm. Things

32:20

have been just

32:22

good. Since

32:24

you're

32:24

an imam, you must be interconnected with

32:26

the community in Edmonton.

32:28

and also through the school, how has

32:31

Nadia's case sort of developed within the

32:33

community? And how have you

32:35

tried to deal with that? I

32:36

had Ali calling me, and

32:38

I can't remember one exactly, maybe

32:40

a week later. And he

32:42

asked

32:42

me, he's like, you know, have

32:44

you observed anything Canadian

32:47

that may have suggested that she would

32:49

do something like this? That was like,

32:51

no.

32:51

My interaction with her was completely professional.

32:54

Right. Right. So everything

32:56

was going normal, professional,

32:59

positive, and I explained

32:59

that to Ali, I have not observed

33:02

anything that would raise an alarm.

33:07

And so

33:07

in your interactions sort of

33:09

going forward from after that week,

33:11

Did you interact with Ali at all

33:14

throughout the period after that, or did he ever

33:16

come back to you and talk to you?

33:18

not much. I received

33:21

a couple of text messages where

33:23

he I don't even know

33:24

if I have them to ask with you, where

33:27

they were not there very positive. But

33:29

I'm not sure really why was he upset

33:31

when I told him, I sent him a message

33:33

back. I think I asked him, like, if you don't

33:35

have I done anything? I mean, why are you

33:37

upset? He's like, didn't give

33:39

me really an answer. Why was he upset?

33:41

I mean, maybe he was just upset. Maybe he

33:44

thought maybe I had some professionally that may have

33:46

upset Nadia and maybe put her some pressure

33:48

or some sort that may have

33:50

caused her to do this. So so I'm

33:52

not sure I probe

33:54

further into these texts from

33:57

Ali. It's not the first time I've heard of

33:59

people receiving

33:59

angry messages from him.

34:02

He's just basically trying to

34:05

get across what kind of a man of religion are

34:07

you, you know, what kind of a religious person

34:09

are you who would do something like what

34:11

you did. And I don't know what does he mean, to be honest with

34:12

you, what he referring to as what you did. I

34:14

don't know what I did. were

34:17

those messages

34:18

sort of close together? Or did

34:20

you receive them over time? Different ones?

34:22

No. They were close together. So and then

34:24

and then he stopped. Like, he sent maybe a couple

34:26

of messages and then he stopped. And did it

34:28

ever resolve? Did did you ever come back and

34:30

say, oh, remember those messages? Or did you

34:33

ever No. No. haven't had a chat with him,

34:35

I mean, ever since

34:38

then.

34:45

Hello? Hi, David.

34:46

How are

34:47

you? I'm okay. I'm

34:49

a loaner risk to tell you the

34:51

truth. I'm not okay.

34:53

This woman who I

34:54

will refer to as Olivia

34:57

has come forward to talk to me

34:59

about Ali and some messages he

35:01

exchanged with her in the aftermath of

35:03

Nadia's disappearance. Her name has been changed to avoid

35:06

exposing her husband and

35:08

his company. David

35:10

you know, Ali? Did you Yes. So I'll tell you,

35:13

I met him

35:13

when I was in the

35:15

North Knows Ali

35:18

used a work in Yellowknife as an electrical

35:21

apprentice in early two thousand seventeen. He would either

35:23

drive or fly up to Yellowknife

35:25

from Edmonton during this

35:28

time. Olivia's husband was his boss.

35:30

Ali was at one point in charge

35:32

of sourcing materials for an electrical

35:36

company. According to a supervisor, Ali was let go

35:38

due to a lack of available work

35:40

near the end of two

35:42

thousand seventeen and it was

35:44

shortly after that that Nadia went

35:46

missing. I think

35:48

I think

35:50

he

35:50

was home for three weeks.

35:53

If I

35:53

remember correctly, I have that in my mind

35:56

Atwi weeks and then Nadia disappeared.

35:59

Olivia had been told by a

36:02

colleague that Aly would often scream at Nadia on the phone

36:04

in Arabic, which made her

36:06

suspicious around the time Nadia

36:08

went missing. Atwi inadvertently

36:11

discussed her thoughts about Nadia's disappearance with

36:13

Ali himself in a back

36:15

and forth flurry of

36:18

online messaging. Olivia

36:20

says she had written a long note outlining

36:22

what she thought of Ali and then

36:24

accidentally sent it

36:26

to him. And

36:28

it was a

36:29

long message, and

36:30

I stupidly sent

36:32

it to Ali by accident. it

36:36

was very awkward. Yeah. Soon as I sent

36:38

it, like, two minutes later, I realized what

36:40

I had done. So I

36:42

just sent a follow-up thing.

36:46

We have determined

36:48

that

36:48

the person messaging Olivia is a

36:50

Lee based on certain information markers

36:52

Corporation, and the account

36:55

it came from. In the

36:57

messages from January tenth two

36:59

thousand eighteen, which I've amended here

37:01

for some grammar and typos, Knows

37:04

admits he uses a dating app and that he

37:06

used it during the time he was

37:08

married to Nadia. Yeah,

37:10

I date women. Is that your problem? During

37:12

that time, I had Tinder. We

37:14

were in the process of divorcing

37:17

with each other. I

37:19

have a screenshot of a text message

37:21

that she sent me in an

37:22

important He also says about Nadia, I

37:24

used to suffer from her. Monadia would keep

37:26

talking with me on the phone for twelve hours nonstop.

37:29

How can I work? And

37:31

then the only problem with

37:33

my wife is that

37:35

she's by Other than that, she's an

37:37

angel. Police went through all my phone

37:39

history records and everything. If there's

37:42

something bad about me in the last four years

37:44

in Canada, I would be in

37:46

jail now. Like, I don't know. I just

37:47

I'm scared of him. Even though he's always

37:50

been so nice to my

37:52

face, it's just I don't know. I

37:54

just had this beer of

37:56

him. Aileen also

37:57

says that people say he

37:59

killed his

37:59

wife, but he never makes any

38:02

denial here. According to Ali, police said there was a two

38:04

percent chance Nadia was in the

38:06

river. volunteers the timing

38:08

of the morning saying

38:10

that Nadia Woke up at

38:12

six thirty. She was getting ready to go

38:14

to school. Her mom came to

38:16

pick her up at seven. My wife took

38:18

the car five minutes before her

38:20

mom arrived. So this

38:22

would mean Nadia left around

38:24

seven nineteen just as

38:26

Salwa was arriving. I'm

38:28

not sure about this timing. Ali finishes

38:31

his messaging saying, I have nothing to hide,

38:33

but at the same time, I don't have to

38:35

be an open book.

38:38

And then guilty or

38:40

not guilty, that is up to the

38:42

justice system, not me

38:45

or

38:46

you. Did you ever

38:48

meet No.

38:49

No. It never met her.

38:51

Did he ever talk about an

38:53

idea to you?

38:54

Right before he left, he

38:56

was talking about opening, like, a night day care

38:58

with Nadia, and he was very excited

39:00

about that. And he said because

39:02

Nadia is a teacher, she would automatically

39:05

get accepted for this position, and he was very

39:08

excited. And then just a few

39:10

short weeks later, he's telling

39:12

everyone that they're in the process

39:14

of divorce was leaving

39:15

her. How I remember

39:18

is the

39:19

pin? And every night,

39:21

I went to back

39:23

with fear that he's either he's gonna

39:26

burn my house or he's gonna

39:28

put ruble at all or

39:30

do something.

39:32

Salah told

39:32

me that a number of Nadia and Ali's neighbors had never

39:35

been interviewed by police. Yunus

39:37

Mohammed, who lived next door

39:39

to Ali Nadia and Edmonton is one of those

39:42

people. I

39:43

never talked to her

39:45

because even when I said hello, she

39:47

would not say how back.

39:50

She's always with John,

39:52

wouldn't make eye contact.

39:54

Eunice

39:54

still lives in the

39:58

same house. David you see Nadia in the morning that she disappeared? Did

39:59

you see her leave for her number? I

40:02

I did not. I did

40:04

not. I

40:06

was I was before that, there was always the kid was crying.

40:08

Mhmm. Oh, I hear the noise

40:10

and I hear some yelling

40:14

going on. yelling was a part and parcel of this

40:16

household

40:17

forever. Eunice doesn't name Ali

40:19

here, but that is who he is

40:21

talking about doing the

40:24

yelling. yelling for

40:24

everybody. Even I clearly remember, I

40:27

talked to the gentleman. I was talking

40:29

and I said, your mom, because

40:31

he

40:31

was yelling at his mother.

40:34

And he said, which I won't

40:36

repeat. And because he

40:38

said, so and so and so

40:40

those big words And I said, okay.

40:42

Well, relax. She's still your

40:44

mother, and I'm I'm the one who are you

40:46

listening to your language. And he

40:48

said, well, she doesn't turn the lights off

40:50

on this and that. worried about bills and I I don't

40:52

know. Ali's mother was staying with

40:54

him

40:54

and Nadia just before Nadia went

40:58

missing. For me and everybody else

40:59

who's around in our neighborhood, I would

41:01

say clearly that I'd never heard

41:03

from his mouth

41:06

any word which would

41:08

be kosher, always something

41:10

coming out which is filthy

41:14

and insane. How's

41:14

that? During these arguments, Unis

41:17

says

41:17

he never heard Nadia

41:20

yelling back. Sawa me

41:22

that she is also witness similar arguments.

41:24

On one occasion, she

41:26

overheard Ali yelling at Nadia over

41:30

the phone. when Sawa asked Nadia what was wrong and why

41:32

he was shouting, Nadia

41:35

didn't answer. We

41:37

were

41:37

always one-sided. Ridgen

41:39

did not hear her speaking. So you

41:42

didn't hear

41:42

her participating? I did not hear her

41:44

speaking. All I heard was crackers

41:46

coming out

41:47

of his mouth. Okay.

41:49

And so you didn't engage with Ali,

41:52

mister Fenech, in any other way other

41:54

than just to kind of try to calm him

41:56

down? Or did you have any interaction with him?

41:58

No. Just just route when he moved earlier in in to

41:59

my neighborhood, being a Muslim. And

42:02

being a neighbor, I extended my

42:04

greeting. Then I I it's good to have

42:06

you here.

42:08

and I remember doing his cutting his side of

42:10

the lawn a couple of time. And,

42:12

you know, even I remember claiming

42:14

some snow from the sidewalk,

42:17

But after that, I mean, things fell apart and I

42:19

just got quiet. I said, instead of

42:22

engaging and making something more

42:24

complicated, my way of doing because I just

42:26

don't say anything. Of course, I

42:28

didn't. Eunice also

42:30

tells

42:30

me about the type of company

42:33

Ali kept in the immediate period after Nadia

42:36

disappeared. There was

42:38

a

42:38

baby web for a few days

42:41

I would say, young girl in

42:43

his thirties. And two or three

42:45

different girls at different

42:46

times, they would go with ALIF. Okay.

42:49

And

42:49

was this, would you say, close to the time now

42:51

it disappeared or after or

42:54

before? After

42:54

after. Okay. And was it within

42:56

a couple of or days or months or Couple

42:59

of weeks. Yeah. Okay. Couple of weeks, within a

43:01

couple of weeks. And did you ever see other women

43:03

going in and out before

43:06

Nadia disappeared? I saw

43:07

his mom. Between Ali's

43:09

admitted

43:09

use of Tinder and his statement

43:11

to Nadia through

43:14

the media, that he was willing to forget the

43:16

past. I'm not sure what if

43:18

anything that tells us. What I

43:20

do know is that nobody

43:22

has ever

43:24

asked unus about it. Nobody has ever

43:26

come,

43:26

not even the police, but several

43:29

times, police was and let's put

43:31

it that way. Every second or third

43:34

day, the police cars weren't there. And

43:36

I just my heart just just

43:38

I I drowned into my

43:40

own fear. that she's your wife. You have a child

43:42

with her and how you're doing this using

43:45

her running of with

43:47

somebody else. And

43:50

he told you

43:50

that. He when when did he come to you

43:52

and say that? Oh, he

43:54

that was within a week or

43:56

so when she loved, and she's disappeared

43:58

all of her. We live in

44:00

a neighborhood which is, I would say, multiracial,

44:03

And we all get long way

44:05

out. There's never even a question

44:07

raised for who's living in fact and

44:09

what children we all keep to ourselves.

44:11

We have decent people. But he in

44:14

my words, he basically took our piece

44:17

away. It was just

44:19

like constant barrage of yelling

44:22

and pursuing and accusing

44:26

everybody.

44:27

yeah Yeah.

44:27

I understand.

44:29

Every night

44:31

around two or three o'clock,

44:33

I would hear that

44:36

kids crying and I would hear

44:38

him yelling. Two or three in the morning. Two

44:40

or three in the

44:41

morning. Yeah. Unis'

44:44

description of the fight he heard makes me wonder

44:46

if they had ever escalated into

44:49

something more.

44:51

okay Okay. Did

44:52

you ever see Ali being physically

44:54

violent or just verbally? Physically violent term outside,

44:57

I

44:57

don't know.

45:00

inside, I don't know. Outside because he whether

45:03

he behaved or not, I don't know.

45:05

But he certainly did not behave

45:07

with his mouth. he

45:09

was very aggressive. Every time

45:12

he saw me outside, he just

45:14

posed in a very aggressive way.

45:18

That's

45:18

it. Just have one more question before

45:19

you go. Did Ali ever tell you

45:22

or give

45:22

you any explanation for what happened that

45:24

day to Nadia? Did he ever say

45:27

the timing of what happened or where she went or

45:29

where she was? She didn't say anything,

45:31

but several times, David,

45:34

oh, I heard from him that now the other

45:36

executive has attacked him and he had the

45:38

restraining order against him. I heard from

45:40

him. I also heard

45:42

that he what else he

45:44

said? I'm trying to remember

45:46

that Nadia's parents are

45:48

threatening him Canadian he's

45:50

being threatened. I also heard from him, and that's

45:52

it. Personally, I think every time he talked

45:54

to me, he was trying to build up a case

45:56

against them.

45:59

Look at that.

46:01

My wife, we were married for thirty

46:03

years. He passed away 505

46:05

years old. Oh, sorry to hear that.

46:07

I'm still single. I

46:09

still miss her every day, and

46:11

I still cry about her.

46:13

If you're married,

46:16

that is beyond love. You are

46:19

together. That's your life. That's it. And a

46:21

person who's married

46:22

and then he talks about negatively

46:25

about the spouse. To me, there is

46:27

something smart right.

46:34

something

46:34

not right in Eunice's mind,

46:36

something unproven in mind.

46:38

Ali can date other women,

46:40

he can yell and be set

46:43

with his family members, and he can be visited by police.

46:45

None of it means he had anything to

46:47

do with Nadia's disappearance.

46:51

In cases like this, timing

46:53

and timelines can make the

46:55

difference who said what happened

46:57

when and did that story

46:59

change. Where was Nadia confirmed to

47:02

be? With Edmund and Police

47:04

inexplicably continuing to

47:06

decline participation, finding solid

47:08

ground on timings is tough, but

47:10

maybe talking to Ali

47:13

will not be.

47:16

I'm

47:16

happy. I'm not happy that my wife

47:18

is missing, but I'm a little bit

47:21

like, okay. Like, in

47:23

Canada, there is fair judgment

47:26

for everybody. Like, if I'm guilty,

47:28

yeah, I deserve anybody

47:30

guilty for this. Like, deserve a

47:32

prison. Right? Like, I'm not saying

47:34

any thing. But, like, I'm not I'm

47:36

not that one that you're looking for.

47:49

The next

47:57

call is hosted written and

47:59

produced by me, David Ridgin. The series is also

48:01

produced by Hadeel Abdul Nadia,

48:03

sound design by

48:06

Evan Kelly, Our senior producer is Cecil

48:08

Fernandez. Emily Cannell is our digital

48:10

producer and our story editor is

48:12

Chris Oakes. Additional

48:14

audio from Citi TV. The

48:16

director of CBC Podcasts is

48:20

Arf Nirani.

48:21

For

48:23

more

48:25

CBC podcasts, go to CBC

48:28

dot c a slash podcasts.