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Solely host opinions and quoted allegations.

1:00

The content here should not be

1:02

taken is indisputable Fact this podcast

1:04

is for entertainment purposes only. I've

1:07

been in many many airplane security line

1:09

and seen another girl across the way.

1:11

We're both toffee in our Glock the

1:13

A bubble wrap pouches that have like

1:15

wipes and earplugs or something and for

1:18

like the played and that many height

1:20

of look at each other and it's

1:22

truly like your members of a cold

1:24

doing like a secret nod your like

1:27

you gotta I gotta wear the fame

1:29

you don't even need to talk. This

1:36

is sounds like a cold a show

1:38

about the modern day Colts Week. I'll

1:41

follow. I'm your host, Demand Montel, author

1:43

of the books Cultish The Language of

1:45

Fanaticism and the Age of Magical Overthinking.

1:47

Every week on the show you're going

1:49

to hear about a different fanatical fringe

1:51

group or guru from the cultural Zeitgeist

1:53

from Cross Fit to Feed Her kids

1:55

to try and answer with the big

1:58

question. This group sounds like it. He

2:00

didn't really. Call

2:09

had agreed is appalling. So is it a live

2:11

your life. Or water bath for a get the

2:13

fuck out. Local calls after all. The

2:16

words cove doesn't just mean roof

2:18

like Jonestown and the medicines and

2:20

more. A when I say that

2:22

schools they go is a cold

2:24

or long muschamp are assholes or

2:26

corporate America is a cold for

2:29

to Lafayette he is a cause.

2:31

We also have an. Insecurity. A.

2:34

Sense of knowing about what that means

2:36

That means Well as is actually a

2:38

hard to define what it means that

2:40

the whole thing. I might think that

2:42

people who are obsessed with and barbecue

2:45

are a cold whereas the barbecue might

2:47

think that I as a vegetarian and

2:49

medical my self consciousness is neat. eyes

2:51

of older consciousness is up to interpretation.

2:53

It falls on a spectrum, but I

2:56

think there are a few things that

2:58

we can all agree. It generally means

3:00

it's a group of people were really

3:02

fanatical about something that gives. Them a

3:04

sense of meaning and purpose that

3:07

might not make sense to those

3:09

on the outside. And sometimes there

3:11

is a super charismatic leader at

3:13

the top that everybody worships unquestioningly

3:15

and some Panthers financial abuse sorry

3:17

than physical abuse. Sometimes things get

3:19

really bad, but not always.fly This

3:22

podcast exists to determine whether all

3:24

the sort of cold eeg roofs

3:26

that people rally around these days.

3:28

Whether it's a workplace or a

3:30

brand, it's determine whether those places

3:32

are called the in a bad

3:34

way or called the in a

3:37

relatively harmless way. Never for weekend

3:39

to the episode I wanted to

3:41

do a couple little housekeeping updates.

3:43

First of all, my new podcast,

3:45

Magical Over Thinkers is well underway.

3:47

It it is my new baby

3:49

Manga little pride and joy as

3:52

it is a podcast forethought, spiral

3:54

or hello meet where every other

3:56

Wednesday I interview a brilliant expert.

3:58

guess about some buzz. Compounding

4:00

subject that we can't stop

4:02

over about. The first episode

4:04

was about narcissism. it's already

4:06

live And then I just

4:08

put out an episode called

4:10

Over Thinking About Monogamy for

4:12

I had the most mind

4:14

blowing conversation with this incredible

4:16

feminists philosopher named Dr. Lee

4:18

Anderson where we discussed monogamy

4:20

and non monogamy/polyamory through a

4:22

philosophical lens which was so

4:24

brain tingling. I really feel

4:26

changed from that interview so

4:28

I hope you. Listen, you can

4:30

find magical over thinkers wherever you get

4:32

your podcasts. And then the other thing

4:34

I wanted to mention was equally excited

4:37

about is that I am going back

4:39

out on bookstore. Thank you so much

4:41

to everybody who came to my events

4:43

back in April my my first leg

4:45

of the tour in New York and

4:47

Boston and silly in Portland and all

4:49

the places in went so well that

4:51

my publisher told me that can go

4:53

back out again. So first of on

4:55

doing a free little library event on

4:57

June eleventh at the Mill Valley Public

4:59

Library in. The Bay Area. So if

5:01

you live in the San Francisco area,

5:04

the general vicinity capital Lincoln are shown

5:06

us it's a free event, you just

5:08

have to Rsvp. And then in

5:10

July I'm going to be coming to

5:13

Chicago, Minneapolis, and Seattle. Save the date.

5:15

The Chicago event is on July

5:17

Twelve that the Friday's Minneapolis is on

5:19

July thirteenth. That's a Saturday and the

5:22

Seattle event is on July twenty

5:24

ninth. These events or cell phone. There

5:26

are books. there is March, There are

5:28

meet and greets. They. Are a

5:30

Who Ten Nanny and I so

5:32

so so hope you com. I

5:34

am not which are tickets are

5:36

going to be available by the

5:38

time this errors, but check the

5:40

links in the show notes. Either

5:42

way, save those dates! I have

5:44

actually never been to Chicago and

5:46

never been to Minneapolis so I'm

5:48

so excited to come. Took out,

5:50

Chalk out. Let's chalk out together.

5:52

Anyway, onto today's episode. I have

5:54

been itching to cover this topic.

5:56

A Hutch. Done it in my

5:58

book. Cultists. It's. Hope of Glass

6:01

The A The Cool Girl Make Up

6:03

in skincare Brands that was launched in

6:05

Twenty Fourteen. It put millennial pink on

6:08

the map, it put the know make

6:10

up make up look on the map

6:12

and it came with an identity in

6:14

the mid twenties hands. I worked as

6:17

a beauty editor and I would have

6:19

given anything to be a glossy. A

6:21

girl to be that imperfectly perfect girl

6:24

that this make up brand seem to

6:26

promise it's consumers to be. Is. So.

6:31

Listed a little background on the

6:33

colts of this cause Metics brand

6:35

Glossy A Because those who already

6:37

know the brand's don't necessarily need

6:39

much explanation about why Glossy A

6:41

The Coal: There are probably some

6:43

people listening, were scratching their heads

6:45

like it's just a makeup and

6:47

skincare brand. I haven't heard anything

6:49

wild about it in the news.

6:51

No one's dying how his last

6:53

year. Call, Let's look into its history

6:55

first. So Glossy got it's roots

6:57

in a beauty website called Into

6:59

the Gloss. This very cool girl

7:02

digital beauty magazine which was founded

7:04

in Twenty Ten of My Glasses

7:06

cult leader Emily Weiss alleyways already

7:08

had a bit of a cult

7:10

following at the time because she

7:12

made this notorious cameo appearance in

7:14

the early Two Thousand and Tv

7:17

reality show The Hills. She played

7:19

the protagonist Lauren sort of pseudo

7:21

nemesis. She was this perfect in

7:23

turn, from New York ringing any

7:25

bells. So in twenty ten,

7:27

Emily ways transcended her brief

7:29

reality tv stand and sounded into

7:32

the Glass which profiled celebrity skincare

7:34

and make. Up favorites in this very

7:36

cool casual way. But Emily was

7:39

like Beauty Editorial. Know that small

7:41

potatoes. I'm launching consumer brands and

7:43

and twenty fourteen Garcia was born

7:45

ten years later. According to contrary

7:48

research, Cloth is currently. Worth one

7:50

point eight billion dollars. This

7:52

brand had such rapid growth, but

7:55

not us in the financial sense.

7:57

In the. Be hurt your

7:59

old. Hold your all social sense that

8:02

it can really. Only be described as

8:04

cold brands. And that has a lot

8:06

to do with Emily. You're going to

8:08

hear and way more about her story

8:10

and her persona and the whole story

8:12

of the cult of Glossy A From

8:15

my guess joining us later, her name

8:17

is Maria Some Meltzer and she wrote

8:19

this expos A this deep dive into

8:21

the history and rise and fall question

8:23

mark of Glossy A. The book is

8:26

called Glossy the subtitle his ambition, beauty

8:28

and the inside story of Emily y

8:30

sus Glossy A. It became a New

8:32

York Times bestseller I blurb did. Which

8:35

means I got to read it early

8:37

and read a little like line of

8:39

endorsements the the cover. It's really good

8:41

so you're going to hear from her

8:43

as a later. But some fast facts

8:45

about Emily's are that she was raised

8:47

in Connecticut. Her vibes were always very.

8:49

Ralph Law ran in Sox, she internet

8:51

Ralph Lauren and Teen Vogue. that's why

8:53

she was on the hills. She studied

8:55

studio art in college and she created

8:57

into the glass while she was working

8:59

as styling assistant at Vogue so she

9:01

was someone with pedigree. She's also very

9:03

beautiful as all. Good Wellness/beauty.

9:06

Called leaders are. Hello! Granite

9:08

Belgium. So two years after she wants

9:10

her online magazine into The Gloss, it

9:13

had over two hundred thousand unique visitors

9:15

per month. that was into dozens of,

9:17

so that was a pretty big deal,

9:19

but not big enough for Miss Emily.

9:21

No, no, and twenty fourteen. She saw

9:23

it funding from venture capitalists to expand

9:25

into The Gloss and she raised somewhere

9:27

between two million and ten million dollars

9:29

depending on who you ask in seed

9:31

funding and that's which used to create

9:34

Glossy A.com and hire. A Team. Glossy.

9:36

A launched with for products their

9:38

bomb.com their priming moisturizer, their perfecting

9:40

skyn tint and their soothing face

9:42

Miss Oh My. God. I remember

9:44

the elusive launch of Glossy A

9:46

again because I was working at this

9:49

Compassion or site to into the

9:51

Glass actually called Bird Eve were

9:53

if you were an editor who

9:55

got since one of these distinctive

9:57

pink. Bubble. Wrap cases for

9:59

glossy. Products. It was basically like

10:01

being anointed by a God. You are

10:03

not as receiving beauty products. You are

10:06

determined to be blessed by the cool

10:08

girl. Authority is of the world. It

10:10

really meant something larger than life. In

10:13

Twenty eighteen, Glossy opened their first retail

10:15

location. Now there are Eleven, but oh

10:17

my God. I remember when that store

10:19

opened, it was like Studio Fifty Four

10:22

in the eighties, clamoring to this millennial

10:24

pings paradise to get a glimpse of

10:26

Glossy A to try on the products

10:29

in the store. To get an Instagram.

10:31

It really said something about you if

10:33

you were there At a year later

10:35

and twenty nineteen, the company was valued

10:38

at one point two billion dollars, so

10:40

it was climbing. Plus he was kind

10:42

of a lightning in the bottle situation.

10:45

By to break down what made the

10:47

brand a call from the sort of

10:49

strategic marketing side because it was no

10:51

accident that this brand became so iconic

10:54

and attracted such religious fanaticism. It had

10:56

this very chic, minimalist but still hashtag

10:58

really the bull as. That egg you'll

11:00

hear from her as the later, but

11:03

the vibe was very much like you

11:05

can sit with us, but you'll never

11:07

feel fully fully Galena, of which is

11:09

very alluring and very cult like as

11:11

a sort of brand positioning tactic. They're

11:14

also some super unique things about the

11:16

brand. First of all, that color that

11:18

millennial paint made it so recognizable. Interestingly,

11:20

I've heard from some brand experts not

11:22

too long ago that a brand having

11:25

a distinct color is no longer such

11:27

an important thing is. but in Twenty

11:29

fourteen, when. Glossy launched. It was

11:31

everything Emily Weiss had her of

11:34

Perfectly manicured pause over every square

11:36

inch of this brand. She.

11:38

Really harness social media. I mean,

11:40

their website used to have these

11:42

free phone wallpaper, so anyone who

11:44

love glossy A would basically be

11:46

like a walking advertisement everywhere carrying

11:48

the brand marketing with them on

11:50

their phones. The packaging itself had

11:52

a cult following, again the staple

11:54

pink bubble wrap pouches. They also

11:56

had stickers and little pink boxes.

11:58

They were so. Though coveted I

12:01

actually sound and ebay listing where

12:03

you can get a glossy toad

12:05

it's a subtle bad a couple

12:07

stickers and a singular pink pouch

12:09

for a hundred and twenty five

12:11

dollars. They also had the super

12:13

distinct sayings and montrose that they

12:15

would repeat that Salt Lake more

12:18

than just a brand tagline. the

12:20

glossy a way was Skyn First

12:22

make up, second, smile always/you look.

12:24

Good. So. It

12:26

was very late self care energy,

12:28

but again with the sense of

12:30

exclusivity and not juxtaposition defines the

12:32

cult of Blasio. Waste One said

12:34

that she intended to create a

12:36

skincare and make up brand coup

12:38

sweatshirt people with one aware. So

12:40

I mean it's ridiculous. Can you

12:42

imagine someone walking around proudly wearing

12:44

a be Your A sweatshirt or

12:46

even an Essay Lauder sweatshirt know

12:48

because there's no such thing as

12:51

obe, you're A girl or and

12:53

Estee Lauder girl But there was

12:55

such a thing. As a glossy

12:57

a girl and it's sell at

12:59

the time like anyone who was

13:01

anyone wanted to be that accepts

13:03

for all their like you look

13:05

good self love messaging glossy I

13:07

was actually not so inclusive indeed.

13:09

There are some big blemishes on

13:11

the glazed doughnut with thrice piece

13:13

of glossy a. During.

13:15

The social Reckonings of Twenty Twenty:

13:17

When a lot of current and

13:20

former employees of these sort of

13:22

problematic girl, bossy, tight brands were

13:24

coming forward and saying hey, you

13:26

know, Higgs, it's not as great

13:28

as it looks up in here

13:30

Glossy A was no exception. In

13:32

Twenty Twenty, some former employees created

13:34

an Instagram called Out of the

13:36

Gloss to expose the poor working

13:38

conditions, especially for workers of collar

13:40

workers from marginalized backgrounds. A statement

13:42

from Out of the Glass explicitly

13:44

said glossies cult. Status was largely

13:46

secured thanks to their vow to

13:49

democratize Beauty. We as a collective

13:51

a former retail employees Ak editors

13:54

have experience in ongoing insidious culture

13:56

of anti blackness, trains, Phobia Able

13:58

Isn't and retaliation. We know

14:00

the proclaimed brand values of inclusivity, accessibility

14:03

and equity it should apply to us.

14:05

We asked Glossy a devoted community as

14:07

this democratization is only achieved my perniciously

14:09

silencing black and brown editors and without

14:12

treating marginalized stuff I probably has a

14:14

democratize beauty at all, or is it

14:16

more of the same. Two years later

14:19

and twenty twenty two ways, step down

14:21

as Ceo and Glossy still exists. It's

14:23

still definitely has a halo around it,

14:26

but I think that out of the

14:28

glass statement really put it perfectly because

14:30

I think what might make a brand

14:32

problematically coffee is when he claimed to

14:35

be in Britain's. When they claim to

14:37

be more than just to Britain's they

14:39

claim to be a lifestyle away of

14:42

was almost an ideology, certainly anesthetic. An.

14:44

Identity template. but then there's a Parker.

14:46

see I'm in the scenes. Not a

14:48

thing is one Pulte red flag when

14:51

it comes to these brands died Totally

14:53

transcends the exchange of money for goods

14:55

or services. I am so curious to

14:57

hear if anyone listening was either or

14:59

a glossy a girl or desperately wanted

15:01

to be a glossy a girl or

15:04

decided to break up with the cult

15:06

of glossy a pair socially and anyway

15:08

find us on Instagram at some to

15:10

get called hired Ends, leave a comment

15:12

and are glossy a post sharing. Any

15:14

stories you feel comfortable. Sharing I would

15:17

love to hear and now I

15:19

am so excited to present or

15:21

interview with Z expert on the

15:23

since a glossy a sensor and

15:25

philosophies herself with quarter or a

15:27

sinister. And.

15:34

Now a quick word from are called Followed:

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the case. Interest rates ever heard of? I'm

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16:16

like having a personal rent paying assistant

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points to get off on a dream

16:25

vacation. Can put them for the flame or

16:27

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16:29

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know me, I'm bad with technology, but

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around this out. The built rewards app

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got it only written. Checking out earn

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points by paying rent right now. Would

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you go to joinbuilt.com/cult that joins the

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Aisle T.com Festival? This show is sponsored

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by Better Help Look like can move

16:54

extremely fast. It can be terribly hard

16:56

to stay presence to get grounded to

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take a moment. To celebrate your wins

17:01

and make adjustments for the rest of

17:03

the year, stats for therapy can be

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really helpful to take stock of your

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progress and set achievable goals for the

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next few months. I have major really

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benefited from therapy in this way. Nancy,

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Shout out my girl. I just had

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an appointment with her yesterday virtually and

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that's the thing Virtual therapy can be

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17:52

Maurice. Ah thank you so much

17:54

for joining a of me and

17:56

Sounds like a cold on this

17:58

much anticipated journey. The Cult

18:00

of Glass a matter of save yeah

18:03

it's a light pink castle is a

18:05

sigh of asked is me those cotton

18:07

candy? It's it's it's it's but it's

18:10

until he is the same time it's

18:12

where the girl bosses live. I mean

18:14

my really deserves a glossy a longstanding

18:16

and it's similar to that of religious

18:19

worshippers relationship to their respective god because

18:21

I'm just like I fucking hate you

18:23

for what you did to me but

18:26

I want you don't wanna. Smell so

18:28

bad as. The

18:30

Out: Why do you think I had

18:32

to write a whole book to process

18:34

the Hit Him again? Could you please

18:37

introduce yourself and your work to our

18:39

listeners? Yeah, I'm Martha Meltzer. I wrote

18:41

a book, Called Glossy which

18:43

is about Glossy I and

18:45

it's also about the girl

18:48

bars, the rise of beauty

18:50

industry be changing world of

18:52

aesthetic than what we consider

18:55

beautiful. It's about venture capital.

18:57

it's about and fish in.

18:59

It's about Emily Ways, the

19:01

founder at the Bow to

19:04

semiotics done millennial pain and

19:06

I am a journalist and

19:08

writer and covered. Beauty Industry

19:10

and read about. Celebrities and fashion.

19:13

As many other things for pretty

19:15

much my entire adult life, I

19:17

want to more into the coffee.

19:19

Analysis Could use a sort of

19:22

like summarize the rise of glossy

19:24

A like when it started how

19:26

it started as how Emily Way

19:28

scheme to this idea and how

19:31

it became so cool followed on

19:33

the outside. Okay so Emily Wise

19:35

started with a cult following because

19:37

she has this three episode extended

19:39

cameo on the Hill which was.

19:42

A popular and to be reality

19:44

show and she kind of burst

19:46

onto it. Is this like hyper

19:48

confidence vote and turn imported from

19:50

the east coast? Flicks Saves the

19:53

day. See literally has like a

19:55

notebook, a binder, clip clop, been

19:57

in heels. she knows. which is

19:59

why. Eerie as she can like

20:01

correctly identify flower type She could

20:03

not have been more of a

20:06

dramatic spoil to like healthy and

20:08

the crow So she started out

20:10

is this kind of cold character

20:12

if you know you know says

20:14

then a few years goes by

20:16

and least for me as someone

20:18

with like you know that girl

20:20

emily from the hills and it

20:22

was like of course she started

20:25

this beauty blog and it's really

20:27

good for she's earth into the

20:29

gloss which become. The kind of

20:31

pre eminent beauty blog and this

20:33

is the era of you know,

20:35

the fashion blogger. The beauty blogger

20:37

one of her close friends as

20:39

we Andra Medine who had men

20:42

repel are and you know it's

20:44

this kind of like and downtown

20:46

New York fashion statue Emily had

20:48

spent some time at like Teen

20:50

Vogue Love W working for a

20:52

Stylus and had transition into you

20:54

know kind of owning the beauty

20:56

side of the web and she

20:58

has this signature column. That she

21:00

figures out right away called Top Shelf

21:03

and is be equivalent of like the

21:05

Culture Diary or whatever were family is

21:07

literally going into their bathroom and fifteen

21:10

on the toilet or the tub and

21:12

someone was just showing them products they

21:14

like and use in the Arabian that

21:17

has she's taking a picture. She's also

21:19

a wildly gifted photographer for the picture

21:21

for actually great to the point since

21:24

the picture she took of Kim Kardashians.

21:26

Kim use this her like linked then headshot

21:29

for years. And actually email and will account

21:31

for permission if she could use then it's

21:33

like yes can carve out in you may

21:35

use my portrait of you so you know

21:37

if there was a lot of interest. And.

21:40

Of following around that and then

21:42

employee takes it a step further

21:44

and as like I'm gonna come

21:46

up with beauty products and I

21:49

already sort of have this in

21:51

the hell is panel of voices

21:53

from people that she had covered

21:55

on this is a glass and

21:58

also dislike really robust Instagram mean

22:00

the and so pay for it

22:02

launching product under the brand glossy

22:04

A which kind of the films

22:06

and the glock in some ways

22:09

glossy then becomes the main character

22:11

and the products that are and

22:13

instead head they kind of in

22:15

a smart way to try to

22:17

be sort of the millennial update

22:20

to the Clinique three step cleansing

22:22

system that had come out in

22:24

the late sixties and had sort

22:26

of never really ban updated or

22:28

that no one. Had ever really

22:31

replaced in it and it became

22:33

kind of notches the Millennium Beauty

22:35

brown but sort of like the

22:37

Millennial brown and when glossy came

22:40

out in twenty fourteen. This is

22:42

also right when Instagram is gaining

22:44

total social media domination and glossy

22:47

launches on Instagram before they even

22:49

have products for people are like

22:51

what is this and now it's

22:53

just like a mood board but

22:56

it's like pink deserts and Kate

22:58

Moss and like a picture through.

23:00

An email like a painted lady

23:02

Victorian and it's like when Love

23:04

all of this like what is

23:06

the some though can so many

23:08

things that now seem normal and

23:10

com and place for like marketing

23:12

it became the playbook. I remember

23:14

it so well. I remember when

23:17

those first images of glossy A

23:19

before there was a brand hit

23:21

Instagram and I remember meeting into

23:23

the gloss editors. There were just

23:25

a couple of them at different

23:27

beauty events around L A and

23:29

they were way. Too cool and

23:31

they never thought like my they

23:33

they were not nice by in

23:35

that way that makes you want

23:37

them a big you really want

23:39

to impress them. I'm very well

23:42

acquainted with that feeling. it's kind

23:44

of like they did is really

23:46

interesting. same totally with their language.

23:48

Where are the kind of vibe

23:50

of insipid gloss with a little

23:52

bit like cooler than thou the

23:54

in a way that was fun

23:57

and aspiration all where you're like

23:59

what are. N B Muzak

24:01

perfect life. what perfume to be like

24:03

or whatever Hodel he he was late

24:05

not actually I woke up like this.

24:08

effort less but it was like the

24:10

Chloe Seven ye breed of I just

24:12

lose cool. I'm a little bit jaded.

24:15

I do not use exclamation points and.tone

24:17

became a playbook to. I remember the

24:19

day at the Beauty website where I

24:21

work that one of our higher ups

24:24

who really hot her finger on the

24:26

Paulson was like totally trying to be

24:28

Emily. Why switch the to point out?

24:31

I remember her coming into conference room

24:33

during an edit meeting one day and

24:35

being like they don't use exclamation points

24:37

at into the glass and we're not

24:40

gonna either. A

24:42

good item. A set of

24:44

us. yeah And then glossy

24:46

A came out and that

24:48

tone change just enough. They

24:50

were using phrases like you

24:53

look good and you can

24:55

sit with us and it

24:57

was suddenly smiley face and

24:59

inclusive and so. There was

25:01

this interesting juxtaposition of

25:03

like the beautiful girl

25:06

that is. Kind. Of

25:08

ignoring you but one day suddenly

25:10

she is nice Feel: ah my

25:12

soetoro it's so true. It's like

25:14

something out of a movie with

25:16

in real life. Yeah and it's

25:19

like to see want something for

25:21

me to see see that I'm

25:23

cool to like. Have I crossed

25:25

over and it's enough of a

25:27

kind of tension that it keeps

25:29

you on your toes. I said

25:31

an acute feel wanting to follow

25:33

along and literally he by in

25:35

N y it's lead you to.

25:38

To focus on glossy A for this

25:40

expos A and what were some of

25:42

the most shocking discovery is you made

25:45

during the process Will My initial thought

25:47

was that there should be a book

25:49

about the beauty industry because I was

25:51

fascinated by it because I'd written about

25:54

it and it was like this secret

25:56

that people who like works in beauty

25:58

or media under. That it will

26:01

reflect powerhouse even more so maybe than

26:03

fashion. With it. Fashion was kind of

26:05

like the cool sister that got all

26:07

the credit and Beauty was just like

26:09

workhorse that kept the lights on and

26:11

at the same time right before the

26:14

pandemic happened. The kind of like last

26:16

big story I'd written was a big

26:18

piece on Emily, wife and Glock the

26:20

A for Vanity Fair that they were

26:22

very like fresh on my mind if

26:24

I was home alone that seen my

26:26

faith reflected back at me and like

26:29

a zoom as and mirrors. And stuff

26:31

and wearing just like sweatpants and

26:33

takedowns instead of fashion or whatever.

26:35

and realized in a kind of

26:38

circuitous way that I could tell

26:40

the story of everything that I

26:42

was obsessed with in the last

26:45

decade. Weather was the girl Bosses

26:47

are Beauty or you know, Venture

26:49

capital or the Jesus the Gold

26:52

Rush through this story and glossy

26:54

A and also said it was

26:56

just this company with this kind

26:59

of enigmatic founder that. I

27:01

had written about but with like

27:03

in no way done process seem

27:05

like it was. You know that

27:07

with my Roman Empire? Ah yeah.

27:09

and then as you really started

27:11

getting into it and investigating and

27:13

spending time with Emily and diving

27:15

into the backstory, I mean obviously

27:17

it's a when you write about

27:19

beauty and when you're sort of

27:21

like a professional, look under the

27:23

hood or it's hard to saw

27:25

spite were you shocked at any

27:27

point in uncovering this story. And

27:29

if so, You know, what were

27:31

those details that surprised you? I'd

27:33

never get over the profit margin.

27:35

Bone Beauty. I'm always like I

27:37

am in the wrong industry like

27:39

a Bramley glossy. A The Profit

27:41

Margin Direct eighty eighty five percent.

27:44

Like what's wrong with me? Wire

27:46

by a writer Like why I'm

27:48

making a profit you know, making

27:50

a moisturizer. And there's also just

27:52

like the amount of money that

27:54

gets thrown around casually is wild.

27:56

You know, just like a one

27:58

hundred thousand. Dollar. Up leave

28:00

photo shoot that were just never saw

28:03

the light of day because you know

28:05

someone weather is emily or another executive

28:07

just decided they didn't like as you

28:10

know like developing and out and spending

28:12

millions of dollars between a hiring people

28:14

and the time spent working on it

28:17

and it was always so it's or

28:19

of chaotic and shambolic that like no

28:21

one could even tell me what it

28:24

was supposed to do or the name

28:26

because it's changed so often know this

28:28

kind of like high. Stakes like

28:30

throwing money around but also when

28:32

the and then there's the whole

28:34

issue of this corporate culture that

28:36

is not unique to Glossy A

28:38

in any way. By just kind

28:41

of you know my clickers Ms.

28:43

Mean. Girls saying that can happen

28:45

again. A company that large leave

28:48

staffed by women which is very

28:50

cool but also has this way

28:52

of replicating high school in some

28:54

ways which is really sad and

28:56

kind of messed up at something

28:59

that we conflict find ourselves them.

29:01

Oh my god I remember at

29:03

all too well I mean I

29:05

worked in Beauty Editorial so it

29:08

was different. like budgets were different

29:10

than if you're working in like

29:12

beauty commerce. Sky. There was

29:14

absolutely those dynamics. those sort of

29:17

like mean girl dynamics and also

29:19

defying certain brands. And if you

29:21

were an editor getting paid I

29:23

don't know. forty thousand dollars a

29:25

year? It almost didn't even matter

29:27

because if you were blessed by

29:30

the cloud of glossy A by

29:32

getting invited to those parties and

29:34

getting sent those products that meet

29:36

up for the law school when

29:38

com yeah me, that's no way

29:40

that people have been sold editorial

29:43

job forever. As that. like that

29:45

glamour, that calmness, By. Association is

29:47

gonna make up for any of the

29:49

kind of decidedly not glamorous part of

29:52

like been under pay his and working

29:54

hard and all of those other thing.

29:56

Yeah, so a lot of the things

29:58

that you're to. Driving the juxtaposition

30:01

of like unbelievable sums of money

30:03

but also sort of like frivolity

30:05

and wins the into pieces and

30:07

as the like corporate side of

30:09

things but also the mineral side

30:11

of things not exclusive to glossy.

30:13

A However, glossy I was special

30:15

and I'm curious if you could

30:17

sort of unpack. What elements do

30:19

you think define a brand as

30:21

cold followed in general? And when

30:23

do you think that that phrase

30:26

crosses over from the sort of

30:28

cheeky and hyperbolic to something more

30:30

sinister. Okay so I think

30:32

the idea of a brand with

30:34

a cult following is like there

30:37

has to be some idea of

30:39

you against the world like you're

30:41

a long as you get and

30:44

boy brow and those who also

30:46

use boy brow get you like

30:49

to me the same that that

30:51

glossy did early on. That is

30:53

the most colt thing is they

30:56

had these pain com bubble wrap

30:58

pouches. They came for free. Where's

31:01

your order says you bought a

31:03

mess The moisturizer what everybody's paying

31:05

com bubble wrap pouches that were

31:07

unmistakable and were invited to be

31:10

for years In fact my organizational

31:12

system is to this day and

31:14

largely glossy. Pouches that have like

31:16

batteries are like selling suppliers or

31:18

whatever written on them that I

31:21

like stuff things and so like

31:23

I and many times has been

31:25

on like something that was very

31:27

kind of glossy a like a

31:29

yoga retreat. And you go into

31:32

various people's room as everyone has

31:34

a glossy a bubble wrap things

31:36

stuff with toiletries or i've been

31:38

in many many airplane security line

31:40

and seen another girl across the

31:42

way we're both tossing are glossy

31:45

a bubble wrap pouches that has

31:47

like wipes and earplugs or something

31:49

for like the played and that

31:51

any kind of look at each

31:53

other and it's truly like your

31:55

member of a cold doing like

31:58

a secret nod your life. You

32:00

gotta, I gotta wear the same

32:02

and you don't even need to

32:04

talk like it's guy like communication.

32:06

No one else knows what you're

32:08

doing and what diet kind of

32:10

signified was like I to him.

32:12

As for at least and do

32:14

we and cool and kind of

32:17

like a city girl. I also

32:19

don't like. take the stuff too

32:21

seriously because I'm just smearing on

32:23

a little blush and that I'm

32:25

getting all of my life and

32:27

I think it crosses over probably

32:29

when the people. Become crazy

32:31

about things like sharing

32:34

code for like very

32:36

few discounts, There were

32:38

meme words like someone is dying

32:41

and their last two final words

32:43

are like share my love of

32:45

for like fifteen off your first

32:47

order. whatever it becomes a thing.

32:49

Also worth like you will not

32:51

rest until your friends and family

32:54

members. also try your favorite product

32:56

and hopefully like it to yes

32:58

because it's they don't like it.

33:00

Then they don't like you. That's

33:02

the implication because he completely bound

33:04

up your identity and the sprints.

33:07

Yeah, like I. Have blonde hair on

33:09

my mother is a ride said I

33:11

mean I think I called her some

33:13

ice gray mean when and glossy am

33:15

launched their like auburn red hair boy

33:17

brown color and I was like bomb

33:19

it for you is happening and she

33:22

knows a glossy is but she was

33:24

just like I don't need it I

33:26

have broad products and I would like

33:28

to get it. Your time has come

33:30

campaign look at it muddles looking all

33:32

this beautiful hair and she was just

33:34

like are you okay with this color

33:36

the human for you. She lives on the west

33:38

coast, I live on the east and it was like I was like

33:41

waiting for her to wake up in. The. Morning and says the

33:43

hypothesis a year Usually get it I'm order

33:45

to for you. Raise completely. I understand

33:47

what you're saying. It's like when the

33:49

fanaticism crosses over from like business as

33:52

a hobby or this is this a

33:54

brand are particularly like into like My

33:56

body is having a reaction Elite a

33:59

religious. We are. Then you have a

34:01

choice of bit higher power and like

34:03

when they're releasing their goods. Yes, it's

34:05

very like higher power. They have to

34:07

look to you beyond knowledge in you.

34:10

Are you so excited And my mom

34:12

is like I don't care about that

34:14

higher power Yeah it's truly like this

34:16

is your weird thing. Like I don't

34:19

care. They monitor for and had products

34:21

in I'm life. They see who he

34:23

thought was completely and that is a

34:25

dynamic that we find in so many

34:27

of these sort of Paris social colds.

34:30

Like Swiss Beauty and other forms of

34:32

celebrity worship or brand worship is that

34:34

you know we want to be seen

34:36

by this thing that we worship. We

34:39

want to feel like were a part

34:41

of this in group that were it

34:43

on the secret that we're not only

34:45

participating and but that is inviting us.

34:48

Slick that these brands Emily Way, some

34:50

Taylor Swift are so good at making

34:52

that sort of totally impersonal second person

34:54

plural. You feel like singular you, i'm

34:57

talking to you both. Also like a

34:59

glossy a store. Or pop up plans

35:01

to your town. and for those who

35:03

are part of the cold there like

35:06

com o got a similar like Taylor

35:08

Swift is coming your city or country

35:10

your life. I and been blessed by

35:12

this present. When do I line up?

35:15

How do I celebrate tonight? Tailgate Am

35:17

I gonna meet my best friend here

35:19

Lemay gonna make friends and like what

35:21

kind of limited edition Merc's is they're

35:24

going to be and then also it's

35:26

that thing of like then you also

35:28

try to may be. Cel someone who

35:31

is not part of at me

35:33

like oh come with me on

35:35

Saturday This is my whole plan

35:37

for the day and they're like

35:39

you're standing in line for something

35:41

that you can buy online and

35:43

you already have one and it's

35:45

like you don't get it come

35:47

for you I saw on my

35:49

level yeah yes it's very late.

35:51

effortless girly height, bees synergy really

35:53

which is part of what was

35:55

there at launch. the been launched

35:57

with like a whole line of

35:59

lipstick. Some grandparents felt like a you

36:01

know, a larger beauty company. It was like

36:03

we have bestowed. For products on yell.

36:06

And you will we excitedly alla

36:08

supreme height beef to see what

36:10

we concoct. Max that will surprise

36:12

and delight you and that you

36:15

will need. The totally and not

36:17

to me is just sort is

36:19

extremely clever cold followed marketing in

36:21

the slightly more innocent pedestrian sense,

36:23

but I think it actually crosses

36:26

over into something a little more

36:28

sinister and closer to a watch

36:30

your Back or a get the

36:32

fuck out sale pull. I think

36:34

it's when you. Like shed other parts

36:37

of your identity to replace them with glossy

36:39

A and start to consider yourself superior to

36:41

those who are on the outside. And then

36:44

it's a sort of thing where you're like

36:46

only surrounding yourself with people who look like

36:48

you dressed like you eat, like you do

36:50

their make up, like you and that could

36:53

bleed ensue like well I'm only going to

36:55

read the publications that a glossy a girl

36:57

would read and I'm only going to associate

37:00

with be even the politics of some one

37:02

of of a glossy. A girl and not

37:04

can be kind of pernicious. Right when

37:06

a brand becomes your whole personality,

37:08

right? I mean, you see, there's.

37:11

A weird people who are they called

37:13

them editors which is a weird termed

37:15

a basically like plot the A retail

37:17

employees and they were cast in some

37:19

ways like an actor or like a

37:21

playboy bunny with yeah they had to

37:23

like sending video as in there was

37:25

an impersonal session and then maybe you

37:27

made the cut in there was another

37:29

and then when he did get hired

37:31

you were like issue with your pink

37:33

jumpsuit and everyone wore it a little

37:35

bit differently as be to cough it

37:37

is you roll it down to do

37:39

tires the ways and then you. Are

37:41

treated like a local celebrity. Where are

37:44

they Graze would give you a free

37:46

cupcake, someone would give you a discount

37:48

for facial just because you were so

37:50

cool by proxy. Have been associated with

37:53

this brown and then also that brand

37:55

becomes your social life because these are

37:57

suddenly your best friends and you're all

37:59

going to this game restaurant nearby For

38:02

the interesting thing is a lot of

38:04

those people do not work for Glossy

38:06

A any more because life goes on

38:09

are actually cause they were laid off

38:11

but many of them are still really

38:13

say and friend I wonder is Glossy

38:15

A in their recruiting Took a page

38:18

out of Still Cycles handbook because so

38:20

Cycle and now Palatine famously do not

38:22

cast their instructors from like personal trainers.

38:25

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38:27

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see stories.com/cope. So.

39:43

We were talking a little

39:45

bit earlier about the tension

39:47

of inclusivity and exclusivity that

39:49

glossy a created so genius.

39:51

Emily was truly a master

39:53

of creating those dynamics and

39:55

was wonder if you could

39:57

talk about how that contribute.

40:00

Issue Glossy A cult following? Yeah,

40:02

I mean I think it was

40:04

this idea wanting to create a

40:06

community but also wanting dislike top

40:08

down of people that were just

40:11

a little bit maybe and in

40:13

it before you or your superiors

40:15

are sort of more in that

40:17

world or like a little prettier

40:20

or had more follow lean and

40:22

mean. Similarly, in the company itself

40:24

there was a little bit of

40:26

a pecking order of they call

40:29

them that oh. Geez, like were

40:31

you there in the beginning? Did you

40:33

work in a department that was like

40:35

some been? Emily understood and that was

40:37

close to her of you know for

40:40

the retail employees it was like this:

40:42

Emily follow you personally on Instagram. Are

40:44

you friends with her socially and is

40:46

the company grew which instead of really

40:49

quickly. It's one thing when it's like

40:51

twelve people and forty people, but family

40:53

it's like hundred and fifty people endured.

40:55

You know, hiring all of these engineers

40:58

and tech people could build our app.

41:00

That never com and those people sort

41:02

of by virtue of the fact that

41:04

they're in a very different part of

41:07

the company and literally were on a

41:09

different floor there becomes a thrill divide

41:11

even within the company itself of the

41:13

kind of having the have nots are

41:16

sort of the ones that are like

41:18

closer and further from the center of

41:20

power. Wow so it sounds like not

41:23

only the outward facing brand of glossy

41:25

A was cold Lake but the internal

41:27

culture was clay pot lake and there

41:29

was a conversation. If not totally

41:32

on purpose, then sort of organically

41:34

between those two power structures, that

41:36

of the company itself and that

41:38

of it's consumers. So some modern

41:40

pulls don't have a leader that

41:42

so easy to identify. But Emily

41:44

Way says like without a doubt

41:46

unquestioningly glossy a charismatic leader. Can

41:49

you talk about the time that

41:51

use that with her and any

41:53

cult leader is qualities you notice

41:55

in her for better and for

41:57

worse. Oh my gosh. okay London.

42:00

Are we found out it's not

42:02

in a book by when I once

42:05

went to her apartment for an interview

42:07

and I think I got their exactly

42:09

two to three minutes early and she

42:12

had a doorman and I guess

42:14

there I say in i'm glad to

42:16

see Emily Life he calls up I

42:18

can tell she says something, he keeps

42:21

me waiting game exactly like the three

42:23

minutes until it's like you know whatever

42:25

one pm on the.or whatever and then

42:28

says the same come up and

42:30

I still to this day don't know

42:32

if she needed those three minutes to

42:34

like tidy up or put on from

42:37

lipstick or go to the bathroom or

42:39

drink water or she just wanted to

42:41

to assert dominance. Who asserts that

42:43

often ends? And you know as a

42:46

time I really felt like she was

42:48

just asserting done as Shelley me that

42:50

like I had to wait until the

42:53

appointed time for me to come up.

42:55

But it's not devil wears Prada vibes

42:57

know it's very different. It's very

42:59

different. Because there is the

43:01

scene of relate ability like she

43:04

did have an assistant their plate

43:06

persistent with actually older than her

43:08

not jumble worth prada and was

43:11

like in another room not following

43:13

her around but just like clearly

43:15

like answering emails and doing schedule

43:18

human kind of just working and

43:20

he or she was dressed down

43:22

I remember when she was wearing

43:25

like an oversized shirt and a

43:27

skirt and house slippers and she

43:29

had lingerie. On a drying rack and

43:31

a corner of her bedroom related queen

43:34

like we all are and were Poor

43:36

man was gorgeous and beautiful and expensive

43:38

because it's Manhattan but it wasn't like

43:40

the last in this movie. Big are

43:42

some sort of like a Real Housewives

43:44

Mcmahon said like it was still a

43:46

one bedroom apartment that also had a

43:48

little side office room you know, like

43:51

it was nice but it wasn't something

43:53

where you're like i could never live

43:55

like that which is very glossy I

43:57

and a very glossy a cult like

43:59

element. That her house or

44:01

apartment? But I don't recall.

44:04

To. The Glossy a office which

44:06

she could see from her windows

44:08

and to the store which was

44:11

about a block away and it

44:13

becomes them. Thing here is like

44:15

in the Glossy a ascetic Emily

44:17

or is Emily and Glossy a

44:20

so in mass that they are

44:22

one and I still don't know

44:24

the answer to that but I

44:26

thought a lot about like Ralph

44:29

Lauren and his like double our

44:31

own ran for like the Castle,

44:33

Karl Lagerfeld own. Workplace, You and

44:35

your brand in your aesthetic are

44:37

like one in the same and

44:40

there is no hard line between

44:42

your workplace, your personal life, the

44:44

way that you look good, local,

44:46

your friend, bar like. it's all

44:48

combines in a ways that is

44:50

beautiful and seamless. inconvenient but a

44:52

little disconcerting. Yeah, oh my God.

44:54

had completely And I think it

44:56

like really speaks to the very

44:59

cold time that we're living in

45:01

were a business leader is also

45:03

supposed to be a. Mascot and

45:05

a celebrity and an influencer and maybe

45:07

even a politician. The boundaries separating or

45:09

lanes have become so blurred and so

45:12

like. This also reminds me of Taylor

45:14

Swift. Taylor's with posted something during her

45:16

era's tour where she was just like.

45:18

This tour has become my entire personality

45:20

and it's like how can we dare

45:23

to know who someone like Emily Ways

45:25

or Taylor Swift even really really is?

45:27

When at this point after so much

45:29

conflating of their brand and their self,

45:32

they might not even know who they

45:34

really. Are you know, like I don't

45:36

even fucking know I think about Emily

45:38

wasted schedule and you know I remember

45:40

asking her and her assistant like what

45:42

is your day like and she was

45:44

just like how many mediums to I

45:46

have. She was like Stacey the assistance.

45:49

How many you're not going to get

45:51

in trouble for like say in it

45:53

with like every moment of her life

45:55

is blocked out and in the evening

45:57

it's probably a lot of work related

45:59

stuff. Like friends that are somewhat

46:01

work related and they're together is

46:03

no distinction. How could you know?

46:05

Especially when Emily, like Pailler started

46:07

this when she was young. Glossy

46:09

A was like Coffers, Company and

46:11

more. left her first real job.

46:13

So it's like when you're starting

46:16

that company in your early twenties.

46:18

there is no distinction between your

46:20

personal life. In your professional life

46:22

they are the same thing. It

46:24

becomes something where you have no

46:26

memory of yourself before. Another thing

46:28

I thought was very cold lake.

46:30

Is that came to visit the Pr

46:32

people could become this negotiation of like

46:34

what activity are we doing together you

46:36

know I wanted to go to this

46:38

employee camp that they had every year

46:40

and they probably smartly was like. No.

46:42

We don't want a reporter hovering around

46:44

our employee off. Site which is again very

46:46

cold t by here also like kind of

46:48

in the cause of block the acer like

46:50

what i wanna go. To

46:53

I wanted something for the this. Merger you

46:55

can email with a real cult like

46:57

thing is they were and the emails

47:00

in the bug in it's pretty funny

47:02

they're like her for we've decided wait

47:04

for and it and will look like

47:07

you to come over and make a

47:09

frittata with her and just the ideas

47:11

as a muslim ignored out specific and

47:14

mundane task should feel so elevated and

47:16

special to do they work shows then

47:18

to me is very healthy and even

47:21

it again in this book into this

47:23

damn like ah. I was only

47:25

journalists who got into like who was

47:27

in her apartment you know, might have

47:30

been piling on trump like mine and

47:32

like I'm not gonna lie, yeah I'm

47:34

like I knew that frittata. you know,

47:36

like and not that really proud of

47:38

that sort of status that I fell.

47:40

but I still way of like bringing

47:42

un yes oh my god I literally

47:44

admire and I'm I'm league so over

47:46

sherry and so like not only you

47:49

can sit with us but like please

47:51

please sit with me that late I

47:53

aspire to this level of. Mystique,

47:56

I have zero mystique. I have

47:58

such a sheen. Desperation that I

48:01

am conscious get intimidated like a free

48:03

broken up with the people holsters one

48:05

money even though I'm like I software

48:07

about to the country and I'm not

48:10

looking for anything serious and they're still

48:12

might do not believe be I think

48:14

I have such a like love Me

48:16

is like a be like if I

48:19

think it's something that people can just

48:21

smell on you I have zero chill,

48:23

zero mystique. I'm trying to embrace their

48:26

because I think it become helpful when

48:28

something like you're trying to sell. A

48:30

book like I remember talking to my agent

48:32

about like author photos one and I was

48:34

like should I not black and white and

48:37

she was like know they could you think

48:39

you are you want some been displaced looks

48:41

like you and like that they look and

48:43

they're like if I saw this person a

48:45

restaurant I feel like I could say hi.

48:47

She was like you're not like Joan Didion

48:49

in front of a court That or whatever

48:52

and I will Unfortunately da. Silva

48:57

Seedings Can you talk about the

48:59

role of millennial paint in the

49:01

construction of this quote? Unquote colds

49:03

a name that cause how much

49:05

time do we have So Millennium

49:07

pain I'm sure everyone knows but

49:09

it with this like like pain

49:11

maybe a little brighter than like

49:13

a ballet slippers color said this

49:15

color that kind of was exclusive

49:17

to glossy a off Me studios

49:19

was using that was kind of

49:21

on the cover of that book.

49:23

Sweet better that was a bestseller

49:25

at the time. It had this

49:27

kind of like momentum going where it

49:29

seems sort of fashion but also cool

49:31

and also like you were reclaiming A

49:34

but also kind of like the guys

49:36

were into it. like there was something

49:38

very effortlessly cool that was hard to

49:40

really put your finger on why he

49:43

wanted it that you want at At

49:45

and glossy A started using that as

49:47

their signature color not and bet anything

49:49

that they were making with that color

49:51

to put on your skin. but it

49:54

was packaging but it was like blanketing

49:56

the packaging. It was like some paying

49:58

some way a tiny. The black

50:00

and it fell to for so

50:03

cool and fresh and. Looked

50:05

good on your calendar and it

50:07

was the same color is that

50:09

pain com bubble wrap reusable pouch

50:11

and it just felt like the

50:13

epitome of inside. he said Netflix.

50:15

Similarly they made a sweatshirt and

50:17

early on and mean speaking of

50:19

taylor currently cloth was you know

50:21

when of like the first people

50:24

photographed in the sweatshirt a first

50:26

it was like could you even

50:28

by the fletcher than you could

50:30

buy It was always sold out.

50:32

Now they do so well with

50:34

emerged. That I would say, like

50:36

half then stores are often made

50:38

up of Glossy A March, Timothy

50:41

Shallow No idea if he's ever

50:43

used a glossy, a product that

50:45

he was photographed in a Millennial

50:47

Paint glossy hoodie, and the term

50:49

Millennial Pink with Queens. Because of

50:52

Glossy A? No, no, It was

50:54

coined by Ronnie Thailand. She was

50:56

old and and a high or

50:58

writer and she was talking about

51:00

it sort of more broadly about

51:03

this color. That was. Like

51:05

glossy was a key part of that. Said it was

51:07

his color. That with. You. Know everywhere

51:09

yeah my clearly sort of

51:11

soul to like her generation.

51:13

And it wasn't little girl

51:15

paying. It wasn't like brass

51:18

a bright paint, it was

51:20

millennium paint. It was like

51:22

cool and a little best.

51:24

the yes yes yeah again

51:26

Emily ways to slake me

51:28

during the art of Restraint

51:30

mastering the art of opportunism

51:32

which is t cult leader

51:34

quality without seeming like an

51:36

opportunist more. and what's more,

51:38

Cool leader than having a signature cooler

51:40

literally I was gonna say like I

51:43

get kind of really you the mind

51:45

fuck that is the conflation of your

51:47

brand and yourself because the wrote my

51:49

first book an or twenty five and

51:51

the cover was yellow scans I forever

51:53

as and from then on was like

51:55

my favorite color is yellow but I

51:57

really don't think it is. it's just

51:59

the south. My but cover color

52:01

and I made it like a whole

52:03

fucking staying and so there's something about

52:05

a color story and just like building

52:08

out this as Taylor Swift has like

52:10

this whole era that people can really

52:12

lose themselves and last name is that

52:14

a little bit too because once it

52:17

came out with the personal which is

52:19

called you which is a very coffee

52:21

name they start using popped have read

52:23

and it was very like a new

52:26

era like now we're paying for Papa

52:28

Read It was like a gradual expansion.

52:30

Which is again like very like Rush.

52:32

Nice. Speaking of cold where it was

52:35

like wear orange but now we're magenta

52:37

are some yes is this is like

52:39

literal color coded uniform and a way

52:41

to spot each other. The power of

52:43

being in a room of all people

52:46

wearing the same color as you like.

52:48

The first pulled that I mentioned in

52:50

my book is they're healthy happy Holy

52:52

organization where everyone were always. Oh wait

52:54

until for a call. A little on

52:57

the nose, all pink with a spot

52:59

of read genius. Yes,

53:01

yes, so I wanna like zoom

53:04

out a little bit. Why do

53:06

you think that Glossies cult following

53:08

and everything it represented in terms

53:11

of the identity resonated at the

53:13

time of it's launch and it's

53:15

skyrocket the way that it did

53:18

a good happening in the world's

53:20

ah. As much as I think

53:23

millennials are really starting to come

53:25

of age, they were probably twenty

53:27

his mid twenties and early thirty's.

53:30

Instagram. Was coming out

53:32

and we were becoming just literally

53:34

more of a visual culture and

53:36

I think said direct to consumer

53:39

browns were kind of marketing this

53:41

idea that like if we sell

53:43

directly to you were giving you

53:46

a better product at a better

53:48

price and you know but also

53:50

they're controlling the experience so it's

53:52

like you're never having to experience

53:55

clock the a real target or

53:57

something, you're only experience and glossy

53:59

a. And glad the april of

54:01

way as I mean Also just I

54:03

think people wanted a brand of their

54:06

own. It wishes that X Factor of

54:08

like hitting at the right moment when

54:10

people were ready and on it at.

54:13

And I think also Instagram was overwhelming.

54:15

There were too many identities to get

54:17

inspiration from to see on there and

54:19

to pull from and glossy a high

54:22

know like cleared the deck. It was

54:24

like don't pay attention to those other

54:26

influencers, just be a glossy. A girl

54:28

that will simplify things. I think you're

54:31

so right because I have a good

54:33

friends who shall remain nameless. but she

54:35

was like Glossy turned me into the

54:37

most basic facts and the she meant

54:39

that in that essence of you know

54:41

it's like sort of a confession but

54:44

also a positive way where it was

54:46

like sometimes you just wanted you pretty

54:48

thing that be other feel, pretty little

54:50

wine and to just be en masse

54:52

with than like the she told me

54:54

that when I was in her town

54:57

and I was on my way to

54:59

the Glossy a store. And after you

55:01

know as one does when you're part of

55:03

the same cold like you want me to

55:05

pick you up anything and she was like

55:08

actually yes I need more. Milky Jolly

55:10

Cleanser. And you know it

55:12

was just saying of like could I

55:14

buy glossy online Gas? Could I buy

55:16

glossy A New York where I lived?

55:18

Yeah. But I was in L A

55:20

and I had to go see the

55:22

vibe of the store there cause I

55:24

hadn't been. Yeah. and I need to

55:26

go commune with my people. I had

55:29

to go check out the local you

55:31

know, prefer? Yeah. And so now leads

55:33

me to the question of like who

55:35

would you say quite specifically are Glossy

55:37

A's target followers and what makes them

55:39

vulnerable to this specific A clinical? I

55:41

think it's bad. You know the way

55:43

that like certain fans I grew up

55:45

going to lie like punk shows or

55:47

whatever and so it's like you go.

55:49

And there would be perennial fourteen year

55:51

old discovering the band and feeling like

55:53

they own debt for the first time.

55:55

I think Latte will always have those

55:57

like twelve thirteen, fourteen fifteen sixteen year

55:59

olds that like discovery that and are

56:02

like yes, Fishers for me But then

56:04

they will also have their you know.

56:06

Classic. Core demographic of people

56:08

who may be like move on

56:10

to a certain extent and start

56:12

wanting fancier products or something for

56:15

like aging scan or whatever butter

56:17

have never letting go. Of glossy

56:19

you perfume or boy brow or

56:21

whatever they're like. Saber Me: sorry.

56:23

Yes, a yeah. and I also

56:25

think just that feeling of like

56:27

we're inclusive. We. Want you

56:29

but also. You are part.

56:32

Of an elite group. Like it's this very

56:34

delicate balance linguistically aesthetically, and there's

56:36

always gonna be that desire I

56:38

think to fit in and to

56:40

be and don't work, particularly by

56:42

young women. Yeah, so we're talking

56:45

about this delicate balance of Lakes.

56:47

All the good things about being

56:49

in a cold, but also the

56:51

kind of bad things about being

56:53

in a cold to really get

56:55

a hold on the colts of

56:57

Garcia Hey, can you name like

56:59

a worst case scenario like what

57:01

is the cult of Glossy. At

57:04

it's worst. okay the copa

57:06

glossy at is Worth is

57:08

feeling like your friends and

57:10

family really don't understand you

57:12

and that your world of

57:14

fellow glass again meme and

57:16

busiest understand you more than

57:18

like people in your life.

57:20

I think that aggressive use

57:22

them by now. pay later

57:24

to afford your habit is

57:26

a little and ten. I

57:28

was there on the day

57:31

that the Manhattan flagship opened.

57:33

Last winter it was I believe in

57:35

be coldest day of the year. it

57:37

was like seventeen degrees or something. Really

57:39

And. Ten with have very strong

57:42

wind and I like many people

57:44

were out there literally below freezing

57:46

lady to be alive and and

57:48

I've also been again waiting in

57:51

line as the him for glossy

57:53

A in extreme heat were like

57:55

people that work there are like

57:58

coming out with some screen. Safe

58:00

enough to try to like easy percent of

58:02

your play style. Bad Bad is truly be

58:05

literal embodiment of girl bossing To close to

58:07

the some analysis of the we ask see

58:09

when you girl boss is close to the

58:11

sun you have to fall down her you

58:14

do and right there waiting for you will

58:16

be some glossy as Ps. okay which one

58:18

where concern and then we're going to play

58:20

a game. What's going on with Glossier right

58:23

now and do you think it's as cold

58:25

he is? It originally was the interesting thing

58:27

as I think glossy A is an act

58:29

like. We're not a coal, were

58:32

actually sort of grown up. Era

58:34

in terms of management. sell a

58:36

lot of people like Emily. why's

58:39

he stepped down as lead Twenty

58:41

Twenty kill? She was the see

58:43

out. Now she's not. I think

58:45

that yes, she's no longer there,

58:48

and a lot of the early

58:50

a higher were like real inner

58:52

circle. Alexis Page developed a lot

58:55

of the products that people are

58:57

so obsessed at, like the cleanser,

58:59

Boy Brow, any crime bomb was

59:01

an editorial genius who. Did a

59:04

lot of the names like cloud team

59:06

and stuff that people love. you know

59:08

those people are no longer there and

59:10

so I think a lot of the

59:12

kind of not his inner but like

59:14

the people who have non traditional backgrounds.

59:16

Or you know, we're sort. Of young or

59:19

new are in their careers like

59:21

the people that really are responsible

59:23

for that magnetic magic feeling that

59:25

got people into glossy A or

59:27

out and now you know, like

59:29

so me regime. Is more traditional

59:31

people are and so. A

59:33

lot of the management is like people

59:35

who went to business schools and have

59:37

and be a are people who worked

59:40

at really big beauty company is or

59:42

it like American Express or Cole Haan

59:44

or whatever and there are you know.

59:46

party line Now it's sort of the

59:48

adults are here, you know like we're

59:50

here to grow up and scale were

59:52

a normal grown up company which is

59:54

like a little less coffee. you know

59:56

it's less coffee and then the trade

59:59

off is it. Matt Dillon for

1:00:01

fair and laugh. Vague product launch While

1:00:03

I want to say like late August

1:00:05

and it was Foundation which is fine.

1:00:07

Foundation is like a really big salary

1:00:09

and beauty. You know people tend to

1:00:11

be really loyal cause if they find

1:00:14

a foundation they like be just stick

1:00:16

with it forever. But foundation it doesn't

1:00:18

like. Surprising to like yo. You know

1:00:20

it's not like some kind of weird

1:00:22

solid perfume that looks like it's in

1:00:24

a shell like the glossy. A you

1:00:27

solid perfume or a future. Do this like

1:00:29

Chloe Hybrid skincare make up product like

1:00:31

it's foundation. It's fine, I've heard it's

1:00:33

a really good foundation, but it's just

1:00:35

kind of nor me totally and I

1:00:37

respect that. It seems like Emily Waste

1:00:40

just doesn't really want to be a

1:00:42

cult leader anymore. Or does she just

1:00:44

not wanna be a beauty cult leader

1:00:46

like new way I would? She moved

1:00:48

on to well she posted on Instagram

1:00:50

not so long though that she made

1:00:52

south out of her breast milk and

1:00:55

was guessing at your friend. Oh no.

1:00:57

So Lake Oh god. For

1:00:59

the night before I realize is

1:01:01

going on like Mariner head and

1:01:04

be like for can spiritual is

1:01:06

like tools lawn energy it's scary

1:01:08

Yeah t be continued Really Barry

1:01:10

believe their oh my God specific

1:01:12

one hundred volunteers like So much

1:01:14

more than. A. Third, Jesus Christ,

1:01:16

I'm excited. Really, really. Really?

1:01:26

Okay, now we're going to play a

1:01:28

little game. This is the classic. Sounds

1:01:30

like a cold game. It's cold coffee

1:01:33

close. so I'm gonna read a list

1:01:35

of close to you. They're either going

1:01:37

to have been said by Emily Ways

1:01:39

or by a more traditional cult leader

1:01:41

from history as her. and you're going

1:01:44

hussey guess Emily, wife or clear about

1:01:46

the first quote is. We. Are afraid

1:01:48

of what will be in the room with us if

1:01:50

we stop being busy. Cult leader

1:01:52

Correct that was uttered by Till

1:01:55

Swine, which I don't know if

1:01:57

you're familiar with her, but she's

1:01:59

a. We more nice alleged

1:02:01

it's thought later. She is the

1:02:03

subject of the podcast The Gateway

1:02:05

and the Hudak You series The

1:02:08

Deep and she's a controversial new

1:02:10

Age are alleged to alleged colts

1:02:12

is. Okay, I realize

1:02:14

you're probably going to be really good at

1:02:16

this because you've spent time with the quote

1:02:18

unquote cult leader of that we're talking about.

1:02:21

it ain't so maybe you might recognize these.

1:02:23

You'll recognize her syntax probably have a more

1:02:25

effortlessly second quotes you can make a million

1:02:27

excuses for why something didn't go well. that

1:02:30

ultimately. To six it and get on with it. And.

1:02:32

Were wiped. Her act. As

1:02:35

of. It is. It's normally more

1:02:37

fun when some really bad a big

1:02:40

game but I'm delighted that your I

1:02:42

I I might be bad. I mean

1:02:44

I don't know I I also and

1:02:46

like the kind of person that prime

1:02:48

said join a cult so all of

1:02:50

that seems very plausible. The me physically

1:02:52

I love an enemy fired by the

1:02:54

Us. I get a of next quotes

1:02:57

I Love Someone was something. To prove.

1:03:00

Really? Could go either way. Cult leader.

1:03:02

That. One's Emily. I'd

1:03:06

see what love someone with something

1:03:08

to prove that as everyone I

1:03:10

got the outbreak for the plot.

1:03:12

Okay next quotes I've learned that

1:03:14

positive thinking and encouragement or essential

1:03:16

for leadership. And progress. And

1:03:19

regards cult leader yes well another

1:03:21

alleged this was the okay alleged

1:03:23

alleged leader with yeah this is

1:03:25

Rich device that last name might

1:03:28

sound familiar because of betsy device

1:03:30

reached avast was one of the

1:03:32

sounders of amway the biggest ends

1:03:34

allegedly most pernicious multilevel marketing scheme

1:03:37

of all time. Okay next club.

1:03:39

This is really for anyone who

1:03:41

wants to embrace the present and

1:03:43

live in the now. It's about

1:03:46

embracing constant seems and who you

1:03:48

are at any given moment. and

1:03:50

that's often someone who's imperfect bespoke

1:03:52

if it's but with up as

1:03:55

a cult leader that. Effect.

1:04:01

You know I know isn't such a

1:04:03

cool these a man like oh my

1:04:05

fucking god because I feel like she

1:04:07

actually keeps a pretty to play with

1:04:09

her like public statements. He really does

1:04:12

that is a cult leader moment ago.

1:04:14

Next one, I don't hire a lot

1:04:16

of number crunchers and I don't trust

1:04:18

fancy marketing surveys and you my own

1:04:20

surveys and draw my own conclusion. As

1:04:22

I am only. Wrong. That's Donald

1:04:24

Trump. For

1:04:28

some. Reason for hope you're

1:04:30

not listening to the Us. Are

1:04:34

you know.will you always have something? is

1:04:36

Donald Trump because he's Lakes I trust.

1:04:38

My only does around yes yes yes

1:04:40

he literally the such as anyone else

1:04:42

that in yeah it's very I do.

1:04:44

My own research suggests that one thousand

1:04:46

percent which is like a to and

1:04:48

on rallying cries Okay Last Club is

1:04:50

my personal favorite. I am who I

1:04:52

am. I can pretend to be somebody

1:04:55

who is twenty five thousand dollars a

1:04:57

year. That. when

1:04:59

as paltrow. You are correct.

1:05:06

Un Un. that was all the point

1:05:08

of I as a sideline and when

1:05:10

at all out yeah it's kind of

1:05:12

the my it is yes Oh yeah.

1:05:14

okay so you're like and emily ways

1:05:17

like a minor and cubes apology Yeah

1:05:19

yeah I was gonna say your legs

1:05:21

a glossy a son. Group Moon.

1:05:24

A thousand per side? Yeah, Okay,

1:05:27

are a. Mercenary.

1:05:29

It's time for the final question. Out

1:05:32

of our three caught categories Live your

1:05:34

Life. Wants. Her

1:05:36

back. And.

1:05:39

Get the fuck out. What?

1:05:42

Do you think the cult of Glossier falls into. I.

1:05:45

Mean because I'm such an

1:05:47

enthusiastic and brainwashed a member

1:05:49

of and feel like I'm

1:05:51

doing great. And second best have

1:05:53

club would say with your life. Meteor

1:05:56

or I completely agree I like

1:05:58

was really trying to. Eat

1:06:00

some worst case scenarios out of you.

1:06:02

and the worst case scenarios Legs We

1:06:05

can deal. Everyone can deal. Yeah I

1:06:07

mean look I'm glowing. I have friends

1:06:09

and cities I've never been. As they

1:06:11

said oh my God thank you so

1:06:13

much for joining me for this episode!

1:06:15

A with absolute pleasure Divine It folks

1:06:18

want to keep up with you and

1:06:20

your brain washy enthusiasm work and they

1:06:22

for in the open I mean that

1:06:24

murtha know Third, Dot Com or

1:06:26

just Instagram. Morris and Help

1:06:28

One one was an Instagram

1:06:31

Amazing! Well that's are So

1:06:33

what's. Referred

1:06:35

me to put in the meantime.

1:06:39

Oh. Cool

1:06:49

incidentally say and then The Mountain and

1:06:51

edited by Judy More as a side

1:06:53

has been. And he music is

1:06:55

a key features. This episode is made

1:06:57

with production whole thing he says he

1:06:59

says internecine, Isn't think he was most worth

1:07:01

of news isn't feeling and if you the

1:07:04

fisher fisher fetuses have we been. A

1:07:07

significant taking Niceties: Wage Cookies

1:07:09

Willing. To to fanaticism and support

1:07:11

sending be. He's a classical. Over thinking

1:07:13

no on modern irrationalities if

1:07:16

you're. A fan of Sounds like a Com,

1:07:18

I would really appreciate it if you leave reading

1:07:20

and review on.