0:00

Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity

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. I'm Judy Oskam . Well , when

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you think about it , getting older

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is all about change , and

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aging well takes creativity

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and courage . The older

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I get , the more I search for

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the secret to a long life

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full of health and happiness

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, and that's why I'm excited

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to share my conversation with one

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of the most important people in my

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life . Actually , without

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her , I wouldn't be here . Joan

0:32

Barnes . Today is mom's

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93rd birthday and

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, to my surprise , she agreed to talk

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with me on her special day . My

0:41

mom is , and always has been

0:43

, my go toto for wisdom , love

0:45

and kindness . I hope you'll

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enjoy our conversation . Let's

0:50

first start off with this

0:53

is a big day 93 . And

0:56

when you think about 93 , what's

1:01

in your mind with that ? What are

1:03

you thinking , mom ?

1:05

I woke up this morning thinking of all

1:07

the big

1:10

deals that I've gone through

1:12

, and the first thing

1:14

I thought of was December 7 , 1941

1:17

, when the Japanese

1:20

attacked Pearl Harbor . I've always been

1:22

interested in the

1:24

history of our country or

1:26

what we went through

1:29

in our lives , and

1:32

we had such a long marriage

1:34

, alf and I , that your

1:37

dad and I yes , and

1:39

so I was thinking of

1:41

the day that the war

1:43

started . And you would have been 10

1:45

years old then I would have been 10 years old , right . But

1:48

I heard all the young

1:50

people , heard all the grownups talking

1:53

about the

1:55

attack on Pearl Harbor . We

1:57

lost most of our Navy at

2:01

that time at

2:05

that time , and

2:08

then I was thinking about the end of the war , when we all

2:10

kind of grew up , went

2:13

off to get married and

2:15

some of us went off to college

2:18

. I was working and

2:24

just things that happened to me during

2:26

my lifetime , the things I've seen

2:28

.

2:28

Yeah , the things you've seen . And you

2:30

and Dad were married in 51 . Right

2:33

, so you were high school sweethearts

2:35

, sort of .

2:37

Well , kind of In a brief

2:39

, brief , short

2:41

period of time , we

2:44

dated when I was 14

2:46

and he was 15 . And

2:49

then I

2:51

found out that he was , because

2:53

he was older and taller

2:56

and everything , and a man

2:58

he could

3:00

go out after . He took me home

3:02

at 10 o'clock

3:04

when I was supposed to be home , he

3:07

could go out with the older girls , and

3:09

so I didn't like that and

3:12

I said no . I wasn't going to do that

3:14

. So until

3:16

later , when he was home

3:18

from the Navy . Then

3:21

we met again and

3:24

spent a couple of leaves at

3:26

home Navy leaves at home

3:29

and fell in love

3:31

. So we married on

3:33

September 15 , 1951

3:37

. Went off to the Navy

3:40

together that last

3:42

year that he was supposed

3:44

to be home . We

3:46

were going to be married then and

3:48

he was supposed to be home , but

3:51

they passed a law

3:53

that they had to have another year

3:56

in the service because

3:58

of the Korean War starting , Right

4:00

, so that was part of our history

4:02

together . So you had one more year and he was stationed in Bermuda , Right , so that was part of our

4:04

history together .

4:05

So you had one more year and you were . He

4:07

was stationed in Bermuda .

4:09

So you went back to Bermuda for the one

4:11

year he had volunteered to go to

4:13

the Korean War , but

4:16

he was the only . The captain

4:18

told him that he was the only man

4:20

on the base who knew

4:22

all of the facilities , because

4:25

he was an electrician first

4:27

class or something like

4:29

that and he had wired

4:32

and been

4:34

in all of the buildings on the base

4:37

so he wouldn't let him go to the Korean

4:39

War . And I was so glad

4:41

because our guys

4:44

suffered a lot and lost a

4:46

lot of lives in the Korean War , sure

4:48

, but we

4:51

had a nice year in Bermuda

4:53

together because he

4:56

was known on the base . So

4:59

we kind of got special treatment a

5:01

lot of times and I appreciated

5:03

that as a young , young wife

5:05

. Sure , sure , but anyway , that's

5:08

how we started our lives together . Yeah , sure

5:10

.

5:18

Well , Mom , when you're thinking back about all

5:20

those times and the

5:22

journey that you and Dad had , and

5:25

now fast forward and you've

5:27

got grandkids and a

5:29

great-grandchild and what

5:32

are some of the lessons and the mess

5:34

? Well , I guess the what

5:36

do you want your grandkids

5:38

to know about you

5:40

and dad , your journey together and

5:43

your life together as a woman , a working

5:45

woman in the day , back in the day

5:47

, oh , there's

5:50

a lot we could talk about .

5:51

So , Back in the day was something

5:54

when I

5:56

graduated from high school . All of my

5:58

friends went off to college and

6:01

I had been working at the bail

6:04

system since I was 16

6:06

. Mom

6:09

took me up to meet the head

6:11

operator .

6:13

I love that Because Grandma

6:15

worked for the Bell System .

6:17

Well , yes , she worked temporarily

6:19

during the tough

6:23

times and

6:25

so she knew people there and

6:28

they knew her , and she

6:31

took me to the head operator in

6:33

the traffic department , which was where

6:35

the calls were made and everything . And

6:39

so I started

6:41

at 16 , and

6:43

within a year's time they had taught

6:45

me everything on

6:48

the

6:51

telephone system

6:53

you know the long distance , the

6:55

information , everything . And

6:58

so I was pretty attracted

7:02

to the business , more

7:05

so than thinking of going on to

7:07

college , but

7:09

my parents really weren't

7:12

into the college thing , sure

7:14

sure . It was not as common

7:16

then at all , and now I'm

7:19

seeing the same thing . I'm

7:21

seeing that people are saying it's

7:24

not that important to go to college . It's

7:27

as important to get

7:29

a well-paying

7:32

job . Like the

7:34

plumbers are making more money than the

7:36

college degree people

7:38

.

7:38

Things like that .

7:39

The trades , yes , yes , the trades , and

7:42

so I was happy as

7:44

I was . And then it wasn't

7:47

too long before we were married and went

7:49

off to the service . And

7:51

when we came back , we

7:55

came back to Texas

7:58

from Iowa . We came back to

8:00

Texas from Iowa . We came

8:02

back to Iowa , of course , where Dad went off

8:04

to the Navy . But

8:06

then we had enough money

8:08

to buy a car

8:10

and so we drove

8:12

to Texas where my folks

8:15

had moved . My

8:18

stepdad was given

8:20

a new job and he

8:22

went to

8:25

Dallas to

8:27

work for Collins , and in

8:30

the meantime we're

8:33

thinking what should we do ? How

8:36

are we going to start our lives and all

8:38

of that we do , how we're going to start our lives , and

8:40

all of that . And then it wasn't too long until

8:42

we were having grandchildren

8:45

and fast

8:47

forward to when Scott

8:50

married and you married you

8:53

first , you and Felix . Yes , you and Felix

8:55

. I was so

8:59

excited when you went for

9:02

the baby in

9:04

China .

9:05

We adopted two daughters from China

9:07

, right , yes , but

9:09

it took me a while . I was 40 when we

9:11

did that .

9:12

That's all right . That's all right .

9:14

Were you wondering if you were ever going to have grandchildren

9:16

? I was because I was 68

9:18

before I had a grandchild

9:20

?

9:20

Yeah , but Dani was

9:23

the little gal and

9:25

I remember seeing her first picture

9:28

when they sent us the picture of her with

9:31

her little sweater and she

9:33

was just such a cute little person

9:35

, and the

9:37

minute you see the

9:40

picture of your grandchild

9:42

, there's something in

9:44

your heart that changes . Yeah , and

9:47

you suddenly you love

9:49

that little person . Yeah , sure , you don't

9:52

know that person , you haven't met

9:54

that person , but

9:56

God has placed something in

9:58

our hearts that immediately we love that person . But there's

10:00

, god has placed something in our hearts that immediately we love that

10:02

person . So then

10:05

, three years later , you called me

10:07

one time and you said Mom

10:09

, we're going to go back to China and get another

10:12

baby . And I thought , I

10:14

thought , oh , it's so much to do

10:16

. But you were so right

10:18

, judy , because the

10:21

first one needed a playmate . Sure , she

10:23

needed a little sister . So

10:26

then you got Jessica , and

10:29

in the meantime Scott

10:32

and Martha

10:34

had Boomer

10:36

and Maggie

10:40

, right right , and William

10:42

was first for them . And

10:45

now William and

10:47

his Melissa have

10:50

given me a great grandbaby

10:53

, evelyn . Yes , and

10:57

within a very short number

10:59

of years I was

11:01

suddenly a grandma and a great

11:03

grandma .

11:04

Yeah right , so it goes fast

11:06

. So time , what would you say

11:08

about time ? What would you tell us

11:10

about time ?

11:12

I wonder now what I was doing all those

11:14

years when I didn't have a grandbaby . I

11:17

do . I really wonder where

11:20

was I all those years and

11:22

what was I doing ? And I

11:25

guess I was trying to be a

11:27

housewife . You were working

11:29

too , I was working .

11:30

You always worked with Dad when you needed

11:32

to you and .

11:33

Dad , together went on your journeys

11:36

on your journeys

11:40

and we

11:43

worked in different places and kept the

11:45

family going . We thought when

11:47

you and you were both off

11:50

doing your

11:52

family jobs , Right , right

11:54

, but it's been a wonderful

11:56

life I never

11:58

. We lost Dad seven years

12:01

ago and I thought I would

12:03

be going about the same

12:05

time . I never thought I would live to be

12:07

93 . Right , Certainly Right

12:09

, but I

12:13

guess the good Lord knows what he has in store

12:15

for me .

12:18

Well , you're our matriarch now

12:22

. It's such a big name . Well , don't

12:24

feel the pressure , that's fine . That's fine

12:27

. But really I think you

12:29

do have a lot to share . You're super

12:31

positive . That's your number one strength

12:33

, and you've always been the one

12:36

to kind of give

12:38

us unconditional love and

12:40

support , and I think you

12:42

do that for the grandkids . I see the relationship

12:45

you have with each of your grandkids

12:47

and you're building that with

12:49

the new little great-granddaughter . I'm

12:52

trying , yes .

12:55

She's such a little pistol , she's

12:58

just walking all over everywhere

13:00

when she comes here . Yeah , so we

13:02

have to clear all the tables and everything

13:05

I know .

13:05

We'll do that . Yeah , we'll do that .

13:06

She's going to pick up everything and look at everything

13:09

and study everything .

13:10

Yes .

13:11

Yes , and now she's starting to talk

13:13

, so it's exciting

13:15

. Every child has their own

13:17

thing . Every child is exciting

13:20

and

13:22

unique , unique and very

13:24

different . It's amazing

13:27

that William

13:29

and and

13:31

Maggie , from

13:34

the same mom , very

13:37

, very the

13:40

same , but very different as well

13:42

. Maggie's quiet

13:44

and persistent .

13:46

Yeah .

13:46

And Dad said one time about her that

13:49

kid would go everywhere . She

13:51

just persists . Yes

13:53

, she's just determined . Smart

13:56

, smart , yes , smart and determined , and

13:59

William is just Mr

14:02

Handsome and

14:05

all the friends

14:08

that he has always had .

14:10

Charismatic , very charismatic , yes , very

14:12

positive . Mm-hmm , yeah

14:14

, yeah and

14:16

yeah , yeah

14:19

, they're all different , yeah , and they're

14:21

all different .

14:21

boomer is just so grown

14:23

up and so smart

14:25

, brilliant . Very

14:29

quiet about his brilliance , but

14:31

but

14:34

very kind to Grandma , very

14:36

good to Grandma , yeah Well

14:38

what about kindness ?

14:40

I mean , I think all the grandkids

14:43

are really kind people and do

14:45

you think that's a way to move

14:47

forward in the world ?

14:48

That's because of you and

14:50

Scott . Well , you and Scott

14:53

, you and

14:56

your mates definitely

14:59

are very seriously kind

15:02

. I have you here to

15:04

take care of me at 93 , which

15:07

is so kind

15:09

of you .

15:10

Well , we're having fun , aren't we ? Well , I think

15:12

we are .

15:13

We're watching the craziest TV

15:15

, aren't

15:19

we ? Well , I think we are . We're watching the craziest TV , but we're having fun and we're talking

15:21

and going over old times and old things that

15:24

we experienced together . Sure , sure

15:26

.

15:27

Well , I learned that from somewhere , you know I

15:29

had to learn that from somewhere . You helped

15:31

take care of your mom and

15:35

grandma and grandpa , so

15:37

it's part of our legacy , I think .

15:39

Yes , maybe so , but not every woman

15:42

does that for her family . Not

15:45

every woman does . I could be sitting

15:47

in a nursing home somewhere in a corner

15:49

feeling sorry for myself

15:51

.

15:52

Well , you'd be the life of the party

15:54

there if you would .

15:55

I would try to get it organized . Yes

15:58

, that's good . I would try to get them to play

16:00

well together , but

16:04

no , it's an important day for me . But

16:07

every birthday is an important day for

16:09

everyone . You sort of

16:13

take stock of what you've

16:15

been doing and how you're doing

16:18

it and you

16:20

try to stay positive . Yeah

16:22

, it's not a positive world

16:24

lately .

16:25

It's a messy world and it's messy

16:27

and I think— and probably it's always

16:30

been messy , but I

16:32

didn't always see it that way .

16:34

I didn't always

16:37

see it that way , but anyway I've

16:39

always found it to be kind to me . So

16:42

I'm a lucky person

16:44

, I'm blessed that way , yeah yeah

16:46

. Dad was such a good provider

16:49

and such a good person

16:51

to live with . Well

16:54

, what's the ?

16:55

secret of a long marriage . What's the

16:57

secret of ?

16:58

of being together . It was 66

17:00

years , yeah , 66 years

17:03

together , and

17:05

I don't know what

17:07

it , what the secret is . I

17:10

think we , we tried

17:13

to let each other be

17:15

ourselves , be our own

17:17

person . I didn't try

17:20

to change him and make

17:22

him do what I want him to do

17:24

, nor

17:26

did he try to change me . I mean

17:29

, it seemed like he was happy

17:31

. I wanted to stay home with my

17:33

babies and my children , and

17:37

he thought that was a fine idea . It

17:40

was the idea of our time

17:42

Sure , the 50s . In the 50s 60s yeah

17:44

, that was what a lot

17:46

of women wanted to do . However

17:49

, in the 70s , we

17:51

had sort of a changeover

17:54

in life . A lot of women had to make a changeover in

17:56

life . A lot of women had to make

17:58

a living , had to go back to work , and

18:03

I was lucky , I didn't have to . I did occasionally , but

18:06

no

18:08

, it was . I don't know the secret

18:10

. We just we found it , whatever

18:13

it was .

18:14

Well , and also , too , if someone makes

18:16

you better , if you're a better person around

18:18

that person . That's what I always think about

18:20

too .

18:22

You're wise , Judy , because

18:25

I do think that we made each other better

18:28

. Yeah , I think

18:30

we tried to make

18:33

things on the

18:35

ground so that in

18:37

the air we were going strong

18:39

, you know always .

18:41

And always going forward . One thing I always

18:43

saw about you guys is there was always

18:45

forward motion . There

18:47

were some hiccups , but there was always

18:49

. There were some speed bumps , if you will , but there

18:51

was always going forward together

18:54

and I think you

18:56

guys committed that when you got married

18:58

right , you were in it for the long term

19:00

. Right , we live by our vows .

19:02

Yeah , I don't know that people do that

19:04

now , but we

19:08

definitely live by our . If

19:11

you make a vow , you

19:13

keep it . I mean you just have

19:15

to keep it . It doesn't always

19:17

work out that way , sometimes it just

19:20

can't , but

19:26

ours did . We were

19:28

lucky , Right .

19:28

Lucky people , right right right , blessed

19:31

and lucky , yeah Well , and looking

19:33

ahead at the grandkids , the grandkids

19:36

and the great grandchild and you'll

19:38

have future great grandchildren

19:40

, hopefully , and I'm

19:42

hoping for that as well . So

19:45

we'll see what happens .

19:46

We are all hoping

19:48

for that .

19:49

So is there anything you would

19:51

leave them with ? And you're giving them

19:53

a piece of advice .

19:56

Oh my goodness , I know that's a loaded

19:58

question .

20:01

There's a lot of ways you could

20:03

go with that .

20:04

I just think if they'll just abide

20:07

by their families and

20:09

how their families go , you

20:12

and Scott will always

20:14

keep things on an even keel , and

20:17

that's important that

20:20

children see their

20:23

parents being happy with

20:25

each other , sure

20:29

, sure things together

20:32

and wanting to

20:35

build a family , because

20:37

building a family is very important

20:39

. A lot of people give

20:41

up too quickly but , um , a

20:44

lot of people do really good job

20:46

of building a family . Sure , and

20:49

that's the only advice I could give any

20:51

of the children , because they're going to find

20:53

their lives and build

20:57

their pathways to having

21:00

a happy family , and

21:02

I wish them all the best .

21:03

I love that , I love that . And happy

21:06

birthday , mom . Thank you , we love you

21:08

and we look forward to having

21:10

some cake later today and a little party

21:12

.

21:13

I'm always up for cake . We're going to celebrate

21:15

. Sounds good to me . Sounds

21:17

good to me .

21:23

Sounds good to me . Thank you , judy . Thank you , thanks for joining me . Thanks

21:25

, and thank you for being you . Oh well , you too . Well , I'm , I'm you because

21:27

I'm me , because of you . You know you're , you're 27

21:30

years different . Yes , 27 years difference

21:32

. Let's not put that out there , okay . Yes

21:34

, 27 years difference . Let's not put that out there . Okay

21:37

, 93 years

21:39

and going strong . Well , thank you

21:41

for listening to Stories of Change and Creativity

21:43

. I

21:51

hope you found some insight into some of this and enjoyed

21:53

it as much as I did , and remember , if you've got a story to tell or know someone

21:55

who does , reach out to me at Judyoskam . com . Thanks for listening

21:58

.