0:00

I see. Because if I do that, I'm a hurt

0:02

I'm a ex the lawyer. Let me hurt you.

0:04

We so often hear about those that don't

0:07

make it out of danger alive, but what

0:09

about those that

0:10

do. My body

0:10

got warm and it just said, get up. You're

0:12

not done. Get up.

0:14

I'm Caitlyn Van Mall. Back with a

0:16

brand new season of I survived. The

0:18

more I bagged him, the happier and

0:21

the more excited he

0:22

got. Join me for new episodes of

0:24

I survived every Monday and

0:26

subscribe now wherever you listen to

0:28

podcasts.

0:31

He actually went into the BBC, the

0:33

local BBC, and asked asked the

0:35

receptionist to she would give him a

0:37

journalist of film killing me. Now

0:40

luckily for me, the receptionist had the brains

0:42

to say, yeah, wait there. I'll go

0:44

get one and obviously go to place.

1:00

I'm Jamie Bibby. And I'm Jake Diptula. On

1:03

today's episode of strictly stalking, we're talking

1:05

to Nina Hobson, a former UK police

1:07

detective who became the target of a man she

1:09

arrested for stalking.

1:10

Nino arrested a man for stalking a woman

1:12

who worked in the government. When she attempted

1:15

to get him help, he turned his obsession

1:17

toward her. Things escalated, he sent

1:19

her romantic letters that ended with his fantasies

1:21

of murdering her. Nina left the police

1:23

force in the early two thousands after she became

1:25

part of the investigative series dispatches,

1:28

undercover

1:28

copper, where she exposed sexism, apathy,

1:31

and neglect in the police force. She now

1:33

runs one of the only female led investigation

1:35

firms in the US and hosts her own

1:37

podcast, code named

1:39

siren, where she discusses some of the most

1:41

heinous crimes she's investigated. Nina

1:43

is here to tell us her story of being stopped

1:45

by a known predator. And discuss some of

1:47

the stocking cases she's dealt with

1:49

since.

1:49

Nina, thank you for joining us today. Thank

1:52

you for having me. You've

1:54

had a storied career in law

1:56

enforcement working with victims and

1:58

basically investigating

1:59

crimes. Was this a field you always wanted

2:01

to explore as a career? No.

2:04

To be honest, I wanted to be a vet

2:06

and that was my goal going through school.

2:08

I was obsessed with animals and

2:10

had Hobson. Unfortunately, I

2:13

wasn't naturally academically

2:16

fantastic. And so

2:18

I couldn't be of it. And my parents

2:21

were pulling the hair out because it was

2:23

like, that was all she's ever wanted to do.

2:25

I did ask them briefly if I could

2:27

be an actress and that was a definite no no.

2:30

And then we used to watch CAGNY

2:32

Lacey, and it was I remember it really

2:34

clearly. It was a Sunday afternoon, and

2:36

I was like, that's what I'm gonna do.

2:39

I'm gonna be CAGNY and

2:42

quickly told my parents to

2:45

absolute horror. They were horror like,

2:47

why do you wanna be CAGNY? You're watching

2:49

a TV show. III wanna be her

2:51

and and literally the next day

2:53

I started an application for the police force.

2:56

What's the process like to become

2:58

a police officer in the UK? Very,

3:01

very different process in the UK to hear.

3:03

So and, obviously, I it's a long time

3:05

since I joined, but my process

3:07

was really difficult So it

3:10

was a year process, near enough,

3:12

five days of interviews. And

3:14

each day, you know, people got kicked

3:17

out and knocked off. And it was

3:19

things from team building to

3:21

speaking to fitness,

3:24

to interviews with high level police officers

3:27

to, you know, real interrogation, your

3:30

parents, your family were had

3:32

background checks, the police visited

3:34

all of your family to make sure that you were

3:36

acceptable for the the police. So it was

3:38

really it was really tough at

3:40

the time to get in. And I think

3:42

it should be. I've been

3:44

involved with police getting into

3:47

police over in America, and

3:49

it blew me away that the standards

3:51

and the levels were so different to

3:54

what I had to experience. When

3:56

you were in the police force in the UK,

3:59

what were the stalking lines like? Terrible.

4:02

When I I mean, no one took stalking

4:04

seriously. That's all. And even

4:06

when I got my stalker, which

4:08

was early two thousand, it

4:11

was only because this there was a stalker kit.

4:13

No one really took it that seriously to be honest.

4:16

And then a stalker case happened in

4:18

London at the same time where a stalker

4:21

actually was stalking his girlfriend, and he actually

4:23

went into selfridges, the

4:25

big shop in Hobson, and shot

4:27

her. She was behind one

4:29

of the beauty counters. And that

4:31

was the point that the police

4:33

really started taking it serious. And

4:36

that was kind of around the time that my

4:38

thing was happening. And then as

4:40

my experience

4:41

escalated, they they did take it

4:44

a lot more serious and

4:46

put things in place to make sure

4:48

that I was as safe as as I could be.

4:51

Tell us about who your soccer

4:53

was, how you met him, how

4:55

he came into line

4:57

of the police and how he

5:00

became your soccer.

5:01

So I was called as a normal

5:03

job to an office where

5:06

this guy had been presenting problems

5:08

to particular lady, he was collecting

5:10

his unemployment check. And

5:14

so he'd become more and more aggressive

5:16

and they called the police. And I was just on

5:18

duty at the time with several other officers,

5:21

attended at the time and arrested him

5:23

for the abuse on on the

5:26

lady. And it at that time,

5:28

no one took anything, you know,

5:30

we didn't think anything hard of it. He was

5:32

interviewed. It was only at

5:34

a later date, and and the systems are very

5:36

different in the UK. So you you

5:39

bail somebody. So if you haven't got enough

5:41

evidence to actually charge and put them

5:43

to court. They can people

5:45

can be released back with conditions

5:47

on them. And one of his conditions was he couldn't

5:49

go to that unemployment office. He

5:51

couldn't be anywhere near the

5:53

lady. And so that was

5:56

the norm and off he went until

5:58

evidence was gathered and he would then

6:00

either be charged or not charged. So

6:03

it was only when the letters started coming

6:05

to the police station. And initially, to

6:07

be honest, as pleased to use

6:10

humor and it was all a bit of a joke

6:12

to start with. And then as they became

6:15

every day, we realized that

6:17

there was some issues I

6:19

was the problem I I had, I was in

6:21

uniform and I had very strict

6:24

shift patterns. So you

6:26

would know what time I was going to the police

6:28

station. You would know roughly what time I was finishing

6:31

the police station. So it was only

6:33

after photographs of me leaving

6:35

and and coming into the police station with

6:37

them that they kinda took

6:39

it seriously that I needed to be taken

6:42

off my shift pattern so

6:44

that he wasn't able to know when I

6:46

was coming and going. And and I lived

6:48

on on my own at the time. That

6:51

for me was the scary thing, like, has

6:53

he already followed me to my home address

6:56

and he's sitting outside my home address

6:58

just waiting for me to be there. We

7:00

did put up cameras, and and the police were

7:03

were good at putting cameras up at my house.

7:05

But, you know, in reality, what

7:07

use is that until afternoon event,

7:09

you know, it's great that you've got

7:11

evidence if something bad happens, but it's

7:13

not it's not gonna prevent it happening.

7:17

So they took me off and I

7:19

was then put into CID. And,

7:22

yeah, that's where I stayed until

7:25

he he actually went into the BBC,

7:27

the local BBC, and asked to ask

7:29

the receptionist if she would give him

7:32

a journalist to film killing me.

7:34

Now luckily for me, the receptionist had

7:36

the brains to say, yeah, wait there.

7:38

I'll go get one and obviously called the

7:40

police. So that was when it really started.

7:43

Getting heavy. What

7:45

was in these letters that was so scary?

7:48

So I was a gypsy go. He

7:50

was the

7:50

scarecrow, and he actually looked like a scarecrow to

7:52

be fair. But he would start

7:54

off with about whining and dining

7:57

me with go walk along the river bank hand

7:59

in hand. I was a little over his

8:01

life. And then by end of it, he

8:03

chopped me into pieces and sent my body

8:05

parts to family members. And it was

8:07

always the same and it was always

8:09

thirty pages. And then

8:12

gifts started to be sent with the letters.

8:15

And obviously everything was collected

8:17

and kept as evidence. But again,

8:20

even when I look

8:21

back, you know, it wasn't really treated

8:23

as seriously as it should

8:25

have been. And he was very detailed. He would

8:27

I had a very distinctive engagement

8:30

ring, and he would draw a picture of

8:32

my hand with my engagement

8:34

ring, and he was obsessed with my

8:36

hair being in a ponytail. So

8:39

I was told not to wear my hair in a ponytail

8:41

because that obviously was a trigger him.

8:43

And then he insulted me because he said, you

8:45

obviously have got children because I can see from

8:48

your stomach, my well, hold

8:50

on. That's rude. But, you

8:52

know, he was he was very fine

8:54

detailed with regards to his

8:56

studying at me. And

8:58

when they finally or

9:00

we finally did arrest him, he

9:03

had this little shrine to me in his Hobson.

9:05

the house is revolting. I mean, it

9:07

was really, really revolting. A

9:10

lot of very hardcore pornography

9:13

and pictures of me that he'd taken, obviously,

9:15

me leaving and come into work. And

9:17

I actually was was at that

9:19

address, and that was that was a real

9:22

hard and again, looking

9:24

back at that point, I shouldn't have been anywhere

9:26

near his address. I think part

9:28

of that was I wanted I

9:31

wanted to see for myself. I'm

9:33

a police officer. So I was trying to be I'm

9:35

a police officer mode, not a victim mode,

9:37

so I'm willing to do my job. And I think

9:39

that kind of ego had

9:42

some bearing on

9:44

the fact that I was involved still,

9:47

where I should should probably have and that's

9:49

my character, but my sergeant

9:51

should have probably have taken me away.

9:54

And so, yeah, that was kind of scary

9:56

to see, wow, this is really

9:59

real. He's really obsessed with me.

10:01

And he when he was arrested,

10:04

and he was actually put into prison on

10:07

remain because we we now felt he wasn't.

10:09

He was a threat and could potentially

10:11

kill me. And it's

10:14

it's kind of ironic because he was one

10:16

of his conditions was not to be given paper

10:18

because he would continue to

10:20

write to me. But you cut

10:23

one of the rules and and

10:25

people's rights is to have a bible and

10:28

you can't take that away from somebody regardless.

10:31

And so he would write, he would wrote pages

10:33

out of the bible. And, obviously,

10:36

he'd managed to get a pen, which is

10:38

no surprise. And he would write over

10:40

the bible and still send letters. And

10:43

again, there was some issue with the prison

10:45

as to how they were getting out, the Hobson.

10:47

He never sent them to my home address, which was

10:50

which was good. It always went to the

10:52

police station. And by that

10:53

point, you know, I wasn't even reading them.

10:55

They were going to the the supervisor.

10:59

How long was he sending these letters until

11:01

you arrested him? It would have been

11:03

a couple of months. There was a lot

11:05

of there was a lot of letters and and

11:08

there was a lot of kind of

11:10

ignoring it to start

11:11

with. And so it would have been a couple of months

11:13

before it kind of escalated.

11:15

And how many times before that had he been

11:18

arrested? We know he had already stopped

11:20

someone else, but were there other things?

11:22

No. When we first when I first

11:24

arrested him, that was the first thing that

11:26

we we had noted. Originally,

11:29

he was a lecturer at at university, and

11:32

we believe that he'd had some

11:34

kind of a breakdown, and this

11:36

is what had happened. So, you know,

11:38

I'm very mindful of mental

11:40

health in these kind of cases.

11:43

Not not always, you know, sometimes people are

11:46

just really not nice people

11:48

and they wanted to put fear into people.

11:50

So, you know, but this case,

11:52

I I believe there was a serious

11:54

mental health issue. Due to the

11:56

nature of what he was writing and the his

11:59

behaviors he showed, he was just totally

12:01

obsessed, totally obsessed,

12:03

and he literally went from one

12:05

person. My only

12:07

reason I became his obsession was because

12:09

I was the arresting officer. That was

12:11

it. There was there was nothing else that

12:14

would have made him and I was the

12:16

female at the time, so

12:18

at the scene. So that literally

12:21

was all we could put it down to

12:23

when people do get stalkers and people blame

12:25

themselves and they try and think, what did I do wrong?

12:27

What did I do to encourage it? And that that's never

12:30

case. You know, it's just it

12:32

was circumstance and timing for me.

12:39

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15:43

What happened to him after he arrested

15:46

him? Did he get help? Where is he now?

15:48

He actually went to he got sentenced

15:51

and he went to And

15:53

I actually moved away from the E166.

15:56

And the police in the

15:58

area where I where I was now

16:00

living were initially really

16:02

great. And we had cameras

16:05

around the house because we knew he was

16:07

gonna be released from prison. And

16:10

so I had really not

16:12

paid him any second thought. I'd

16:14

left the police force by this point.

16:17

I did know that I was going to be

16:19

on a documentary that

16:21

you mentioned. And so I knew that there

16:23

would be some kind of maybe that was

16:25

a trigger, but I was miles away. I was two

16:27

and a half hour drive. So it was like,

16:29

this it's not really going

16:31

to bother me. But one night, I was

16:34

I had a beautiful little country

16:36

English kitchen and I

16:38

was it was a summer's night and

16:41

it it I lived in a village that you never

16:43

locked the doors. And I

16:45

had a great dog and my

16:48

kids were little and my kids were

16:50

in bed. My ex husband

16:52

at the time was a police officer. And

16:54

he was on he was at work. And

16:57

I was cutting and remember,

16:59

as if he was just saying, I was I was talking more to

17:01

Mellon. And I had my back

17:03

to the kitchen door. And

17:07

I heard, like, the door going at that point,

17:09

my dog ran down stairs and

17:11

threw himself at the kitchen

17:13

door. And I heard that as

17:15

I turned the handle when and I just saw

17:18

this guy's face and I might

17:20

That's that's the scarecrow. That's

17:23

that's the scarecrow. For whatever

17:25

reason, my kitchen door had

17:28

been locked that night. And

17:30

so when he tried the handle, he couldn't get

17:32

in. I E166 immediately

17:35

and as as our faces locked,

17:37

mine through one side of the door.

17:39

He he disappeared as soon as

17:41

the and I rang

17:44

my husband at the time. And

17:46

he came and they

17:48

scoured their area and couldn't find

17:50

him. And that

17:53

was the last I've seen or heard of

17:55

him. After the last time you saw him,

17:57

did you think that you would see him again?

17:59

And did you make any changes in your life

18:01

because of that?

18:03

No. So when when I left the police

18:05

force, obviously, he was locked up and

18:07

that was all fine. I never thought at that

18:09

point, I would ever see him again. However,

18:12

when obviously, when he got released and

18:14

they told me it was getting released, that

18:16

that was probably the first time I'd had

18:18

any real thought about what

18:20

was potentially gonna happen then.

18:22

But I I lived on this premise

18:25

and two and a half hours drive away. This

18:27

guy's never gonna show up at my house. I've

18:29

moved away from where he's never gonna

18:31

find me, although it wasn't that

18:33

difficult. So I didn't really

18:35

protect myself in any any

18:37

way. The police did put cameras at

18:39

my house, which was great

18:42

that they did that. But it wasn't

18:45

something that I was living with

18:46

constantly. However, after he showed up

18:48

at my house, there

18:51

was a

18:52

lot of times where I would be

18:54

out doing things and I'm very conscious

18:57

that I'm looking for him. And

19:00

actually, in Australia,

19:03

I thought I saw him, and then

19:05

I was like, and and this is she is

19:07

later. And then I'm like, No. It

19:09

wasn't. And I actually said to my daughter that's

19:11

that's a scarecrow because E166 the kids

19:13

are aware now what's happened, but

19:15

it it actually wasn't him. So subconsciously,

19:19

I think he's still always going to

19:21

be there. I could I could if I

19:23

could draw, I'd be able to draw

19:25

a picture of him because his his

19:27

face is always going

19:30

to be in my brain. So

19:32

and I think, you know, and I I'm

19:35

I'm a strong character and I

19:37

think that people don't actually understand

19:39

that either. When you've got had a

19:41

stalker, And maybe

19:43

the stork is no longer a storker,

19:46

but for you that that

19:48

torture, that turmoil

19:50

is never gone. Never go.

19:52

Tell us about why

19:54

you stopped being a police officer and

19:57

what other changes you had made in your life.

20:00

So I loved being a police officer. I

20:02

was really proud I had a great career

20:04

and was never going to leave. I

20:06

was gonna do my thirty years, but during

20:09

that time, things started to

20:11

change politically for police officers.

20:14

And also, I didn't

20:16

like what I was seeing internally.

20:19

So when I joined, I accepted

20:21

things probably that I shouldn't have done.

20:24

And as time progressed, I

20:26

saw things that I didn't want to accept

20:28

and I saw the sexism and the

20:30

racism and the

20:33

political changes that we're

20:35

making. Police officers not necessarily

20:37

be the right police officers that we're joining.

20:40

Standards were removed. So I know you

20:42

asked at the start about how I you know,

20:44

you had to be five foot six as a woman.

20:47

And and and again, people

20:49

won't agree or disagree. You had to have

20:51

a certain education level. You

20:54

had to pass a police test. You had to

20:56

have certain fitness level. And that was my

20:58

problem because I'm not a natural runner.

21:00

So I worked really hard to get to

21:02

that level of fitness.

21:05

Equal opportunities came in and all of the

21:07

those standards were removed. So it

21:09

didn't matter how tall you were. And again,

21:11

working as a police officer on the front line,

21:14

those things really mattered. And

21:17

so I saw all this changing

21:20

and I decided that I

21:22

wanted to do something about it, and I didn't

21:24

really know I know, you could go to

21:26

senior police officers and they'd have

21:28

ignored me. I knew that. But

21:30

I wanted to really make a difference. And

21:33

one of the things that I was seeing was

21:35

the way that victims

21:37

of assault, that sure saw the

21:39

way that they were treated, the

21:42

conversations that officers had,

21:44

and it wasn't always male officers. It

21:46

was officers. And,

21:48

you know, we had no discretion anymore.

21:50

So when I joined, if you

21:52

saw somebody taking a pee off the wall,

21:55

you know, you'd you'd take him home and know

21:57

that dad had clip him around the ear because he'd become

21:59

home in a in a police car. But then

22:01

he got to the point you have to give that person

22:03

a ticket. Because that counts towards

22:05

your bonus at the end of the year. And that

22:07

wasn't the police officer that I joined.

22:10

The heavy pornographic pictures on

22:12

walls and police stations. That's

22:14

not okay. If if you wanna do that in

22:16

your locker or at home, that's

22:18

not okay. And it kind of gave the message

22:21

to what you really thought of

22:23

women. And and I've

22:26

never played the female card. I'm like,

22:28

I'm even now, some jobs

22:30

are I have men who can

22:32

do the job way better than me.

22:35

Sometimes I'm right person

22:37

for the job because I am a female. And

22:40

so I've never played that at all, but it was

22:42

like I just wanted to make a difference

22:45

because been a police officer was a really

22:47

hard job, and being a good police

22:49

officer was even harder. And it

22:52

my I wanted to make a difference. So

22:54

I made the dented footage and

22:56

I carried my camera for ten months to

22:58

record. The internal

23:01

workings, not what was going on on the streets.

23:03

There'd been a million things made about that.

23:06

And then I needed a voice,

23:08

so I made it with dispatches

23:10

into a documentary. And

23:13

suddenly, I have enough footage to

23:15

do that. I mean, that would have been the goal

23:17

that Oh, actually, I haven't got enough to make

23:19

a documentary, but suddenly, I did

23:21

have. And E166, I knew at that point

23:24

well, I knew at that the point when I went in

23:26

with my camera, that my career was

23:28

over because I knew immediately

23:30

that and that was a hard decision because I

23:32

loved my job and it had been you

23:35

know, ten, fifteen years by the time

23:37

I left, and I knew that

23:39

that was the end for me, but I felt so

23:41

strongly about it. For the

23:43

police officers moving forward

23:45

that I was not only prepared

23:48

to miss my life because and

23:50

my and my children and I again

23:52

not sure whether I was really

23:54

brave or really stupid because the

23:56

only person that knew at the time, didn't

23:58

tell my ex husband

24:01

because he was a cop. I didn't tell

24:03

anyone that I was doing it because I didn't wanna

24:05

put anyone else at risk, but I went

24:07

to see a lawyer. And said,

24:09

this is what I'm going to do. What do you

24:11

think? And he said,

24:14

no way. No way you I

24:16

have no defense for you. So when

24:18

you do come either out the other side

24:20

or you get caught in the middle, you're

24:22

going to prison for minimum of five years

24:24

and there's no defense. So

24:27

it's great. It's one of most stupid

24:29

ideas I've ever heard. And I went, okay. Well, thanks

24:31

for your advice. I'm going in anyway. And

24:35

so every day I went in not knowing

24:37

whether I was actually gonna come home

24:39

and see my kids because I knew that if they

24:41

did catch me, there was no

24:44

bail for me. I I was going to Hobson,

24:46

and they were gonna keep me in Hobson. So

24:48

that yeah. But it was it

24:51

was for the bigger picture that I

24:53

did it. By doing this documentary,

24:55

what kind of dangers did you know that you

24:57

would face? So there were

24:59

two two issues when I

25:01

started the documentary that I was very

25:04

aware of. One was if I

25:06

got caught and they didn't

25:08

know that they had caught that I didn't know

25:10

that the police had caught me. So if

25:12

I had been carrying my camera and they had

25:14

suspected me, I

25:16

ran a risk that maybe I'll

25:18

get something planted on me. Maybe

25:21

my house would have something put in it.

25:23

That was one of my biggest concerns. And that

25:25

and my lawyer had said, you know, you're you

25:27

could potentially go from five years in Hobson.

25:30

To twenty five years in prison. So

25:33

I had to be super careful that

25:35

no one ever knew, so I had

25:37

to be the first in the police station. One

25:39

of the things we couldn't do is take our

25:41

body armor out of the police

25:43

station. It it had to stay in your locker.

25:46

So every morning and every night, I

25:48

was the first thing in the morning and every night, I

25:50

had to do cancer surveillance on my own locker

25:53

to make sure that in the morning if someone

25:55

had been in it, I knew they'd been in it.

25:57

And one day, I came in and

25:59

the locker was open. And I I

26:01

was the first in And I'm like, okay,

26:04

this is it. I've got options I can

26:06

either run now. And we

26:08

had to obviously, I had

26:10

a plan a to to just basically

26:13

getting my car and drive somewhere and

26:16

wait for them to come find me,

26:18

I could sit

26:20

out and and see what happened or I

26:22

could confess. And it was

26:24

literally a few minutes. That's all I had

26:26

a decision to make because other people

26:29

were starting to come in and, oh, hi, Nino,

26:31

whatever. And I just I okay.

26:33

Well, I I ride out. And I

26:35

put my kit on and I the whole day,

26:37

I was like, some chief superintendent's gonna

26:39

come and arrest me real Hobson,

26:42

and they didn't. And then It

26:44

was I'd obviously left my locker open,

26:46

but so yeah. It was

26:48

that that was my risk. My my freedom

26:51

and not see my kids go up was

26:54

the risk that I had every single day

26:56

and that I physically bombarded

26:59

most days on my way to work.

27:01

So I'm obviously making

27:04

my documentary, live in

27:06

the nightmare of of that,

27:09

my internal nightmare, then I get

27:11

the stalker. During the making

27:13

of the documentary. So

27:16

then when they put me into

27:18

CID back into plainclothes, My

27:21

concern is not oh,

27:23

I have a stalker who might kill me. My concern

27:26

was, shit, I am guiding

27:28

cameras to film what's going on

27:30

now because they're all built into my body armor.

27:33

And I'm like, well, now

27:35

I'm not doing my job that I'm here for.

27:37

And I think that probably helped me

27:40

not deal with what was really going on with

27:42

the Stalker. I think in my mind, now it was

27:44

easier to worry about. I'm now not making

27:47

getting the footage that I need because I haven't

27:49

got a camera to I might

27:51

walk out of here and that could

27:53

be the end. So it it

27:55

sounds probably a little bit crazy, but in

27:57

in some respects doing what I was

27:59

doing at the time made having a stalker

28:03

a lot easier because

28:05

I think otherwise, I would have obsessed about

28:07

that. And again, I

28:09

didn't share it with anyone

28:12

other than my immediate police colleagues

28:14

because I didn't wanna go home and tell

28:16

my ex husband that

28:18

I was worried that someone may come to the house

28:20

and hurt the kids. And

28:23

he didn't know I was filming and it

28:25

was just it was just a perfect

28:27

storm at that point that I had so

28:29

much going on and so much at risk

28:31

in my life that I was

28:33

probably a little bit blasé about

28:35

having a stalker, which is not a

28:37

good thing at all.

28:44

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32:35

After leaving the police force, how did things change

32:37

and what direction did you go and career wise?

32:40

So I I left the police and I will obviously

32:42

see the document who has been made and

32:45

I was then approached by because one

32:47

of the highlights of the documentary highlights

32:50

probably the wrong word, but was how badly

32:52

rape big tens were treated.

32:55

And so I actually worked on

32:57

another documentary looking at

32:59

why rape

33:01

conviction rates were so low. And I

33:03

think at the time, in the UK, it was three

33:05

percent, which is just a pull in.

33:07

And then did that with the police.

33:10

So I made that documentary, and then

33:12

I was like, what what do I do now? And

33:14

while I was at the what do I do now

33:17

moment was when I received letter

33:20

in the post, which was a gold

33:22

envelope. And I opened

33:24

the gold envelope, and it said that I

33:26

was a E166 UK woman

33:28

of the year for services to my country.

33:31

And I'm like, this

33:34

was wrong. Like, this they've got the wrong person

33:36

here. And so

33:38

that was that was a really for

33:41

me, it was a life changing moment because it was the

33:43

first time that I realized really that

33:45

my documentary had made a difference.

33:48

And that not not only to me

33:50

and the police officers, but actually to the

33:52

E166. then I so

33:55

now at that point, I was

33:58

obviously, people thought she could

34:00

do her job, whether it's on TV

34:03

or in the real world because I'd been

34:05

undercover exposing my own

34:07

and no one had found out. So I

34:09

then had a TV show called

34:11

undercover mom, and I went

34:14

and part of undercover mom was to

34:16

expose people who were hurting

34:18

kids. And I

34:21

did that for a few years, three years,

34:23

then I would go and become

34:26

somebody and infiltrate a

34:28

bad And that

34:32

was a scary cause suddenly had I hadn't

34:34

got safety net anymore. You know, regardless

34:36

of when you're in police officer, when

34:38

you're doing things that are a little bit scary

34:40

or dangerous, you do have a safety net. But

34:42

suddenly, I was out on my own, I was

34:45

on a housing estate where the guy when

34:48

the baseball bat sat next to me who

34:50

suddenly went someone's just

34:52

told me, I'm having a show made about me.

34:54

When I find out who it is, I'm gonna fucking

34:56

wrap this baseball bat around their head and

34:58

I'm like, shit, it's me.

35:02

How do I how do I get out of this?

35:04

And and it

35:06

it I mean, that so that was what I did. And

35:08

then I was like, you know, I'm very highly

35:10

skilled out what I do. It's all I've known,

35:12

you know, from being eighteen, and

35:15

that's when I started my

35:17

investigation company. In my

35:19

garage and it grew very

35:21

quickly and I moved to

35:24

to Australia and then I went to Dubai

35:27

and and

35:29

and

35:29

then the rest is kind of history.

35:32

Do you remember the first stocking case

35:34

that you investigated? The

35:36

first stalking case. Yeah.

35:39

I as a police officer, it was

35:41

a young girl, and it was a stalking

35:43

case that actually turned into a kidnapped. Because

35:46

he did get her. And

35:48

we we got her back, and it was it was

35:51

all great and wonderful that

35:53

we rescued her. But that was a stalker.

35:55

Again, it was a long time ago and it was a stalking

35:57

case where did we

36:00

pay enough attention to it? Probably

36:03

not would things be done differently now.

36:05

I would absolutely hope so. But,

36:07

yeah, it was a a young q sixteen

36:10

and it it was a guy

36:12

that had been sending her messages and

36:15

put in letters in at

36:18

at school, actually. And,

36:20

yeah, that was that was one that

36:22

didn't go according to plan initially

36:26

because he ended up being able to

36:28

take her That was my first one

36:30

as a police officer. My first

36:32

one as a non police officer was

36:35

a young girl, again school,

36:37

and this was the Internet and

36:40

a guy had started stalking

36:43

her on the Internet. And I remember

36:45

getting the phone call at midnight from

36:49

a a guy who knew of me. And

36:51

he said, my the

36:53

girl was at boarding school. And he said,

36:55

my daughters roommate that

36:57

boarding school has a stalker and

36:59

you need to get hold of him real

37:01

quick. And I'm like, well, who is

37:03

he? What we don't know is on the Internet. And

37:06

it's affecting her grades. She's really

37:08

struggling. She's blocked him on everything

37:11

because then it was Facebook. It's not like

37:13

it is now for the young people. And

37:15

then he would go through other friends

37:17

to find out what she was doing on

37:19

Facebook. And she actually

37:22

went from a girl who was straight

37:24

A student to failing and

37:28

very, very quickly because of this

37:30

stalker. And eventually, we did

37:32

track him down and

37:35

we actually paid him a visit. I

37:37

put together a file. To say,

37:39

you know, this is these are the crimes that you've

37:41

committed. We put him I mean,

37:43

this is how bigger thing we do. We put him under

37:45

surveillance. Before we approached him

37:47

because we don't know who he's working

37:50

with, who he's associated with, what

37:52

other risks are there to her and

37:54

her family. What risks are there

37:56

to to me and my team. So

37:58

we put him we knew that we had time as of the

38:00

estimates with him because we had to stop. This girl

38:02

was really struggling. And and

38:04

we didn't find him overnight. It

38:06

was and he was actually it it was two

38:09

and a half hour flight. He

38:11

didn't know this girl. He had just literally

38:14

picked this girl randomly and

38:18

and thought he was her boyfriend. And

38:22

his family didn't wanna go to the police

38:24

because of how badly affected

38:27

she was and they didn't want her to have to go

38:29

through a court case because she was doing her finals

38:31

at school. And, you know, these are things that

38:33

people don't always take into consideration,

38:36

the bigger picture and why don't they go

38:38

to the police and So and we

38:40

also were had concerned he'd made threats

38:43

that he would kill himself if

38:45

she stopped communicating with him. And

38:47

that's a huge thing to burden

38:49

to put on somebody, anybody

38:51

but a a young girl who doesn't know who this

38:54

guy is. And so we

38:56

had to make sure that he was safe. And

38:59

he was he was eighteen. And

39:01

again, had some mental health issues and

39:04

had some issues within his family.

39:06

And we actually approached his family first

39:09

because we were concerned about if

39:11

he If he knows he's he's

39:13

really cool and he knows that she's going to

39:15

stop this, we needed to make sure we

39:17

had duty of care to him as well.

39:20

And then we approached him and basically

39:23

said, this is the file. This

39:25

is what's going to happen. If

39:27

you don't stop your behavior.

39:29

Unfortunately and E166,

39:32

by that point, we put some monitors on his

39:34

technology. E166 that

39:36

fortunately was the end

39:38

of that stalking case. And

39:40

she she passed her exams and

39:43

did amazingly well and never heard

39:45

from him again. Now there's no

39:48

guarantee that he didn't just find somebody

39:50

else because that's what he needed, but

39:52

in our role, that was our job.

39:54

Our job was done.

39:56

And, you know, it's it's not

39:58

it's not very straightforward. People just think

40:00

it's very straightforward, and it's not Working

40:03

as a private investigator through

40:05

Australia to buy the US,

40:08

what are some stocking cases that

40:10

stand out to

40:11

you? I actually had a case

40:13

in in I wasn't here

40:15

at the time, and it was a friend

40:18

actually said, because I often

40:20

get, you know, the the can you do

40:22

this as because you're a so and so friend,

40:24

and it was a celebrity family. And

40:26

there were three celebrities in the

40:28

family, and the Stalker

40:31

liked one of them and disliked

40:33

two of them. And it

40:35

was really unpleasant. And

40:37

they got their home phone numbers. And

40:40

by the time I came on board, it

40:42

had been presented to

40:44

the police because there is a there's

40:46

a celebrity unit in Beverly

40:48

Hills, and they haven't done

40:50

anything. And so our

40:52

letter came in from Australia to

40:55

to do this and it it was

40:57

predominantly getting more and more vicious

41:00

and nasty and we

41:02

needed to locate where the person it was

41:04

and he is and who it was and get

41:06

the fact that they've got personal information and

41:09

and addresses and we

41:11

felt from reading what was

41:13

really going on in the Stalker's mind,

41:16

and it was every day. There was

41:18

hundreds of emails to the celebrities,

41:21

to anyone that knew them, posts

41:24

on social E166, and

41:26

you can block as much as you you want,

41:28

and I'll talk about people's

41:31

needs and and want as opposed

41:33

to the dangers are

41:35

also really kind of significant, but

41:37

we felt that he was probably going

41:40

to kid up the

41:42

girl that he liked as opposed

41:44

to harm the two that he

41:46

didn't like, which is also

41:48

a different mindset because he

41:51

we could see that he felt that he needed

41:53

to take her away from the situation that

41:55

he believed she was in. So

41:58

eventually, we did we did actually

42:00

track him down and we it

42:02

was so bad at that point. We handed

42:05

it over. We did go back to the police.

42:07

And again, I'm not a police officer, and

42:10

you know, the police do a great job and they have roles

42:12

to play. And sometimes, it's we

42:14

need to just help them and

42:16

highlight it. So we were able to then

42:19

present a file and go,

42:21

this is all done. This is who it is and

42:23

over to you because we can't arrest someone.

42:26

And that was that was that was going

42:29

badly wrong. You could see that where

42:31

things were changing and what triggered

42:33

things. And then I I actually

42:35

had another personal one

42:38

in LA, which was of a

42:40

dating app. And so

42:42

yes, I know. I'm on

42:44

dating apps, was on dating

42:47

apps. And the guy had said

42:49

that he was a BBC Sports

42:52

presenter on the profile And

42:55

something happened that we had

42:57

the because I have a whole process on for

42:59

myself, my dating, and you

43:01

can be shook off at any given time.

43:04

And so we swapped numbers

43:06

and the first text message that I

43:08

got back from him, something didn't feel

43:10

right. So we've we've spoken on

43:12

the dating app, and then we swapped numbers.

43:15

And so I immediately said, you

43:17

know, I'm really busy at work. I

43:19

hadn't actually said at that point what I did for a

43:22

job really busy at work and

43:24

so I've decided not to date because I

43:26

I'm very polite, and I don't believe in the

43:29

just shutting people down. And

43:31

it was, like, went north north to a

43:33

hundred. They abuse. I'm gonna

43:36

kill you. I'm gonna kill your family.

43:38

I know where you live. Sending

43:40

me an I never block a

43:42

non bocus. Evidentially. And

43:45

that's not for everyone. By the way, I'm not giving

43:47

that as advice. And it got really,

43:49

really nasty real quick. So again,

43:51

we had to track him down. The I did tell

43:53

the police, and they were like, you know what? We're

43:55

really sorry. We haven't got time, which I

43:57

understand because this goes on a lot.

44:00

So we tracked him down. Now, I was fortunate

44:02

that we have the capabilities to do that, and

44:04

he didn't live on the beach in Malibu. He

44:07

lived in a not very nice place in

44:09

Hollywood, and we then worked out

44:11

that he also had he

44:13

was renting a room and he

44:16

was inviting students to come

44:18

view the room and was abusing

44:21

them. So, anyway, we

44:23

went and paid him a visit.

44:26

And that was it. It stopped. I'm

44:32

Nina Hobson at police detective

44:35

from the UK. I wanna give you

44:37

the listener a feel of how it literally

44:40

is living on the edge in a real

44:42

investor litigation dealing with real

44:44

criminals. I can remember saying to my

44:46

mom, there's a green piece of paper in

44:48

my safe. If I'm killed, that explains

44:50

everything. We're in a high speed chase

44:52

and all family call and even then I

44:54

didn't realize that that wasn't normal. The

44:56

next thing I remember being in the massive

44:58

holding cell shaking and crying and

45:00

I just was

45:01

like, what am I doing here? What happened?

45:04

The first con men like this

45:06

by time, which in some ways helps

45:08

them psychologically

45:10

overcome you. From historic

45:12

media, you're listening to code

45:14

name siren, a true crime

45:16

podcast. Available on YouTube

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and all major podcast platforms.

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47:56

Walk us through what happens when somebody

47:58

is being stopped and they come to you for help.

48:01

How do you assess their

48:02

dangers? What advice do you

48:04

give them? What's that like?

48:07

So the first thing that we would do is

48:09

is do a risk assessment on their

48:12

safety and whether that's looking at

48:14

their home, And again, this

48:16

seems kind of dramatic sometimes, but

48:18

you have to gauge the level. I

48:20

can never tell a victim that

48:23

this person hasn't approached you for

48:25

ten years. However, today

48:27

may be the day because I don't

48:29

know what's going on in that person's mind,

48:31

so we always wanna try and

48:33

protect the the person in their environment.

48:35

So we do a risk assessment on that

48:38

And situation awareness is

48:41

the biggest thing. Like, being aware

48:43

of what's happening as best you can

48:46

and, you know, changing

48:48

things, changing pattern of behaviors changing

48:50

your pattern of life. And again, you

48:52

go, well, you know what? I'm

48:54

the victim and I'm the one who has to

48:56

do these things. And sadly, that's the

48:59

case. Because we we don't

49:01

always know what that person's capable

49:03

of. And I I did a case recently,

49:05

and and the store had been stocking for a number

49:08

of years had traveled overseas and

49:10

come back again. And we

49:12

didn't know. And for many years,

49:14

the stocking has been a certain pattern. It's

49:16

been on the internet. But

49:18

what had triggered the person now

49:21

to come back into the country

49:24

and just things like the

49:26

the the victim was going to a

49:28

funeral. And so the

49:31

the guy was aware because of looking at social

49:33

E166, and her contacts because

49:36

remember that everybody can be anyone

49:38

anymore. So it's not as easy

49:40

saying, we'll block that person because Ben

49:44

may actually now be Kylie.

49:46

And so having that

49:48

access into other people, So

49:51

we are very much about don't have

49:53

a usual pattern. Go a different

49:55

way to to work. Go

49:57

a different time if you can. Make

49:59

sure somebody always knows where you are. And

50:01

it's it's a lot to put on somebody.

50:04

But sometimes that's, you know,

50:06

making sure they're safe until We've

50:08

found that person. We've set up

50:10

stinging operations to find the people.

50:13

Because sometimes we don't even know where

50:15

they are who who they are. And so it's

50:17

a long process to get to that

50:19

goal, but it's something that time

50:21

is definitely of the essence for the stalker

50:24

because We don't know what they're gonna

50:26

do today or tomorrow or

50:28

the next day. Are they ever going to change

50:30

from what they're doing now to becoming

50:33

violent or physical and

50:35

their questions that we can never answer.

50:38

What's the process once you do find

50:40

a stalker? So, again, we

50:42

we're not police officers, and so

50:45

but we are very victim led. So

50:48

a lot of we will advise a victim

50:50

you can do x y and z. However,

50:53

what you do is your choice

50:55

and we always very

50:58

victim led because it's the victim who has to

51:00

continue in in their life.

51:02

But sometimes it gets to a point where

51:05

we know it has to go to the police

51:07

for various reasons. But again,

51:09

the big team has to make the complaint. We're not

51:12

police. We're not able to do that on their behalf,

51:14

but we will advise them that this is

51:16

is the best thing. And, you know, nine times

51:18

out of ten, if somebody has asked us to help, there's

51:20

a reason that they've asked us to help. And

51:22

therefore, they do take what we're

51:24

telling them as being the right advice

51:27

or or the the advice that they should follow.

51:30

And do you sometimes work with the police

51:32

if they chose to go that route?

51:34

What we do with the police is we'll just

51:36

give them everything. Like, we will never withheld

51:39

hold anything. We don't have to have any

51:42

mention of any, you know, of

51:44

us even being involved. We

51:46

will just hand them a file. And I've

51:48

done that on a number of cases where

51:50

we put a because with police officers,

51:54

the file is pretty much like a full

51:56

police file. Nine turns out of ten.

51:58

And so we'll just handle them. And then

52:00

that's that's on them. There's only a

52:02

certain point that we can go to because

52:04

we don't have authorities in the way that

52:07

police

52:07

do? You've investigated many

52:09

stocking cases as a police officer when

52:12

you left the force in also as a private

52:14

investigator. What's behind the obsession? Why

52:16

do stockers stock? You

52:18

know, I think it's a control. Sometimes

52:21

I there's a number of reasons, and I'm not a

52:23

psychiatrist, but it's the control.

52:26

There's a fear. To

52:28

put fear into somebody is

52:31

sometimes the thing that motivates. There's

52:35

an obsession as in a sexual

52:37

obsession. On occasions. So

52:39

there's so many triggers to stalkers

52:42

as to why they do it and

52:45

who it is that they stalk.

52:47

And I've known stalkers that

52:50

have stalked because the

52:52

person has brown hair.

52:54

I've known stalkers that there

52:56

was a very big case in the UK where

52:59

presenter had a stalker, a

53:01

TV presenter, and she

53:03

was then he knocked on her door. She opened

53:05

the door, and he shot her. And

53:07

he was obsessed because she was on TV talking

53:10

about crime all the time. So

53:12

it you know, it's really hard for

53:14

me to answer that question because it

53:17

can be anything. It can you know, when you

53:19

look at serial killers, again,

53:21

sometimes as a pattern to who it is

53:24

that they decide to kill and sometimes it's

53:26

just wrong place, wrong

53:28

time, right time whichever way they

53:30

look at it. So no one is actually

53:33

to in my mind, and this doesn't scare everyone.

53:36

You know, anyone could become a victim

53:38

of stalking. Anyone.

53:41

When you're working with a victim, do

53:43

you have a list of general

53:45

safety tips that help when

53:47

someone thinks they have a

53:48

stalker? Yeah.

53:49

And we always say and I always

53:52

say, you know, even if you think

53:54

you have a stalker, make sure you

53:56

tell someone. And again,

53:58

I don't know whether it's society's perception

54:01

that it's still not. It's a stalker,

54:03

you know, it's it's people still shrug their

54:05

shoulders, you know. But I my

54:08

view is if you think you have one,

54:11

tell someone if you don't

54:13

wanna go to the police just make

54:15

sure you tell someone and tell them who

54:17

you think it is. And

54:19

if you're feeling that in your gut that this

54:21

is happening, then go with your gut.

54:24

And then you can stop putting measures into

54:26

place early around your

54:28

safety and the safety of anyone else that's

54:30

involved. And, you know, thankfully,

54:33

we don't hear masses and masses and

54:35

masses of stories. There's masses and

54:37

massive stories of people being stored.

54:40

But ultimately, what's the

54:42

end goal of the stalker, and we all know the worst

54:44

case scenario. And so,

54:46

you know, don't feel like

54:48

you're over exaggerating or

54:51

it's crazy. That's what I try

54:53

to get across to people because that's what people

54:55

think. Oh, I can't say. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's just

54:57

me. Maybe maybe maybe or maybe

54:59

what if it all goes wrong. So

55:02

that's my strong message is if

55:04

you think that's happening or starting, then

55:07

make sure you start to put things into

55:09

play early. And you know what if it's wrong

55:11

and it's

55:11

not, who cares? Who cares?

55:13

At your private investigation firm,

55:16

you actually work with your

55:18

children. Can you tell us about

55:20

that? Yes. Relatively, they

55:23

would say, I don't think so. Yeah.

55:25

So my daughter has been working with

55:27

me since she was eleven

55:29

and actually undercover undercover

55:32

mom. That's where my daughter worked with me

55:34

on the TV show and she was

55:36

she was a natural act

55:39

identities and learning a

55:41

new story. And so

55:43

she got involved very early

55:45

funny enough. She then went

55:47

to act in school in New York, which was

55:50

what she was good at. And my son

55:52

from the age of four, blew

55:55

my cover on a job that we were on

55:57

at four. Because in what

55:59

world would you think that a four year

56:01

old boy wouldn't wanna tell everyone that mom's

56:03

carrying secret cameras. So that was

56:05

on me. But then, fortunately, my

56:08

son grew into six foot

56:10

for American football

56:12

player. And so when

56:15

I needed someone to look

56:17

like they would hurt you. He

56:19

wouldn't because he's a big softy, but

56:22

he kind of fitted into that role.

56:24

And then there was a couple occasions

56:27

where we were out socially

56:29

as a family and

56:32

something happened that we ended up on a job.

56:34

And the kids would be with me having

56:36

a my my daughter's first recollection is

56:39

that we were in a car chase with a helicopter

56:41

and that was our normal, like and

56:44

so they kind of filled

56:46

the role by default, but

56:49

my daughter's brilliant had been

56:51

on the cover. And my

56:53

my son's just the the hired

56:55

help, the muscle, And

56:58

so it just kind of happened, and they've been

57:00

doing it since they were were

57:01

small. And if somebody is

57:03

looking for investigative services

57:06

like yours, how can they get a Hobson

57:08

you? How can they find you? Well, most

57:10

of my work is word-of-mouth because

57:13

it's not something that, obviously, we all advertise,

57:15

but There's a in

57:17

America, there's a couple of companies that

57:20

I work under, and

57:22

then in Australia and in the UK.

57:24

So but basically, now, Nina

57:26

Hobson, and you can Google and find me anywhere because

57:29

I I have the

57:29

podcast. So but most times,

57:32

it's a word-of-mouth situation.

57:34

And tell us about your podcast.

57:37

What do you talk about? What are those

57:39

stories like? And where can we find your

57:41

podcast?

57:42

So my podcast is code named siren,

57:45

and it's it's it's a

57:47

true crime podcast, but it's talking

57:50

about the cases that we've

57:52

done, the people that we have encountered

57:54

along the way, my guests are

57:56

kind of from my world of

57:58

operatives criminals.

58:00

So I I do have a few criminal associates

58:03

that are very useful to

58:06

have and actually other people I

58:08

would trust with my life, which sounds kind of

58:10

bizarre, but we have a whole

58:12

range of people. So it's

58:14

a real person. It's it's

58:17

others as investigators, as

58:19

as cops, as as special forces

58:22

who have lived the life

58:24

that We've lived all of us have

58:26

for the last thirty years.

58:29

And so we cover a lot of things

58:31

and I love doing it and

58:33

I just like the fact I can give someone

58:35

an insight into the world that

58:37

I have taken from the

58:39

norm. My kids have taken as the

58:41

norm, but in reality, what

58:44

we have done and what I do

58:46

is has not been the norm.

58:48

You've gone through your

58:50

own stocking situation, and

58:53

you've talked to a lot of people that have

58:55

also gone through stocking situations. What

58:58

advice would you have for somebody

59:01

trying to get past

59:03

it? Share share

59:05

your situation with somebody. Somebody

59:07

that you trust because I think

59:10

sitting alone and bearing

59:13

all of of what's happening on

59:15

yourself is very, very difficult

59:17

and can very easily

59:21

put you in a very much deeper place

59:23

than you are. And I think, you

59:25

know, if you've got someone you can share it with, I'm

59:27

not saying you have to go report it because,

59:29

again, that's on your terms.

59:32

But make sure that you share with somebody

59:35

what's going And, you know,

59:37

have that person you can call at

59:39

three o'clock in the morning if you hear

59:41

a noise and you think that's somebody

59:44

outside, that's my stalker. Because

59:46

that's the other thing you've that people

59:48

brightly so get paranoid of

59:51

everything and everybody that's around

59:53

them. And it's and you think you're

59:55

going crazy and you're not going

59:58

crazy. But if you have someone to

1:00:00

share that with and say that moment and

1:00:02

give you some advice or not, just

1:00:04

be there to give you a few

1:00:07

words of reassurance or listen

1:00:09

to you, vent. That's the

1:00:11

other thing because you do think you're crazy or you're

1:00:13

gonna think or the people think crazy? Or

1:00:15

is this over the top? Or is this real?

1:00:17

Yes. It's real. It's very real. If that's

1:00:19

how you're feeling, it's very real to you.

1:00:22

So that would be my first word of advice.

1:00:24

If you do think it needs reporting,

1:00:27

and I say when you think it needs reporting,

1:00:30

look at what you've got going

1:00:32

on, see what levels are happening?

1:00:34

Or is this something that is

1:00:37

classed as talking? Is it something

1:00:39

that you think you can deal with yourself?

1:00:41

And I'm asking these because these are

1:00:44

questions that you probably can't answer. Don't

1:00:46

be frightened of doing what you

1:00:48

need to do to protect you. Like,

1:00:50

don't if if you go to the police station

1:00:53

a hundred times because you

1:00:55

believe that this is happening to you,

1:00:57

don't be afraid to do that. Because

1:00:59

this is your life and you're living it.

1:01:02

And if you need, you know,

1:01:04

there are people like myself and

1:01:06

there's there's other people that I

1:01:08

work with you know, I

1:01:10

just did case recently and the lady said to

1:01:12

me, I just really needed a female. I've

1:01:15

spoken to a lot of males.

1:01:17

Who've said they can help me and I needed a female

1:01:20

because I needed a female to understand

1:01:22

what I was going through. She actually had

1:01:24

no idea about my story,

1:01:26

and I shared it with her at the first meeting.

1:01:29

And I said to her that that's okay.

1:01:32

She said, but when I went to the cops, it was

1:01:34

male, and it's like, but that's okay. You can ask

1:01:36

for a female because this is your

1:01:38

life and your story and

1:01:40

your position and and it's not a

1:01:42

nice position to be in at all.

1:01:45

Being aware of your surroundings is

1:01:47

a huge thing that we often

1:01:49

aren't aware of, ways being aware

1:01:52

of, of what's around you, who's around

1:01:54

you, especially for the cases where

1:01:56

you don't actually know who that person

1:01:58

is. Social media may it that

1:02:00

that is often the case. Anyone can be anyone

1:02:03

on the end of a text message. And

1:02:05

so you'll live in that fear that a person

1:02:07

set the next table maybe your stalker

1:02:09

or maybe it is. So be mindful

1:02:12

of your situation and,

1:02:14

you know, I always have my entry and exit

1:02:16

points. And that's not me being dramatic.

1:02:18

It's just trying just so you

1:02:20

feel a little bit more comfortable if you're

1:02:22

in that situation that you are aware.

1:02:25

You know, look behind you when you're in

1:02:27

the car. Use different routes to

1:02:29

them from work. Tell someone that you're going.

1:02:32

I'm leaving now and I'm gonna be

1:02:34

here. I mean, we're talking obviously

1:02:36

worst case scenario, but you tell

1:02:38

someone, so if you don't get there in the ten

1:02:40

minutes that you said you're gonna be, and they're

1:02:42

aware of what's happening, you know,

1:02:45

things can be put into place. And

1:02:47

I talk about that on another perspective

1:02:50

with the dating world. So

1:02:52

it's just being mindful. You can't

1:02:55

necessarily stop your stalker doing

1:02:57

what they're doing. What you can do

1:02:59

is make your life more bearable. And

1:03:02

not responding as hard as it

1:03:04

is is a huge thing. Because sometimes

1:03:07

a stalker will just get bored and

1:03:09

move on. Sadly, probably

1:03:11

move on to someone else, unless there's

1:03:13

a real personal thing that's happening.

1:03:16

And there's a reason, you know. But

1:03:19

you can get a stalker from anywhere. Doesn't

1:03:21

have to be an ex boyfriend, which again

1:03:23

is something in media has a

1:03:25

hold on this. Oh, and and

1:03:27

often, it there is a connection,

1:03:29

but doesn't always have to be.

1:03:31

Do you know what's next for you? I don't know.

1:03:34

You know, I'm I'm so fortunate that

1:03:36

I I have a nonfer profit

1:03:38

to rescue sex traffic children.

1:03:41

And if I could rescue sex traffic

1:03:43

children every day of

1:03:45

the week because suddenly there are enough

1:03:48

I would do that, and I also work for

1:03:50

charity to save rhinos. So

1:03:53

if I could save rhinos and children,

1:03:56

every day, that's what I would do. But

1:03:58

the likelihood of that happening is very slim.

1:04:01

So I'm I'm touching

1:04:04

dip in my toe in the media as

1:04:06

a consultant in in that area

1:04:09

because I feel like I have

1:04:12

lived the life, and I keep telling

1:04:14

everyone that I am the real

1:04:16

Olivia Benson. So when

1:04:18

she needs to step down, I'll step in.

1:04:20

But I'm just I just wanna help

1:04:22

people. Whatever the circumstances, I

1:04:25

wanna help people and

1:04:28

and

1:04:29

fight for justice.

1:04:30

We're very glad to hear that. And

1:04:33

if anyone wants to learn more about

1:04:35

your charities or anything you

1:04:37

do or support donate

1:04:40

How can they find you?

1:04:41

So my charity is up

1:04:43

shadow, operation shadow. So there's

1:04:46

a web page right there and save

1:04:48

the rhino. Very simple. My

1:04:50

podcast, as you kindly mentioned,

1:04:53

is code named siren, and we

1:04:55

drop a new episode every Thursday. And

1:04:59

my emails are on

1:05:01

any part of the Internet. So if anyone

1:05:03

needs any help even if any

1:05:06

of your listeners and I know that you have a great

1:05:08

following who are going through the

1:05:10

the stalking and wanna contact

1:05:12

me directly. If they contact

1:05:15

you, then you can pass Hobson. And I'm more

1:05:17

than happy to have conversations with

1:05:19

any of them and help in any way that

1:05:22

I

1:05:22

can.

1:05:22

We'll definitely pass that on. Anita,

1:05:24

thank you so much for joining us today. If anyone

1:05:26

out there is in need of help or is victim of

1:05:28

stalking, please reach out. You can find

1:05:30

a list of resources on our Instagram at

1:05:33

strictly stocking

1:05:34

pod. If you'd like to share your story with

1:05:36

us on strictly stocking, you can reach us at

1:05:38

strictly stocking pod at gmail dot

1:05:39

com. That's strictly stocking P0D

1:05:42

at gmail dot com. listener of strictly

1:05:44

stocking, please leave a review and read us five

1:05:46

stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon

1:05:49

Music, or review list

1:05:50

I'm Jake Deptula. And I'm Jamie Bibby.

1:05:52

Thank you for joining us on today's episode

1:05:54

of strictly stocking.

1:06:03

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