0:01

A fish, spelled F-I-S-H, is an aquatic,

0:03

gill-bearing vertebrate with fins that lives in

0:06

rivers, lakes, and oceans around the world.

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Fish, spelled P-H-I-S-H, is a jam band

0:11

from Vermont that generally stays on dry

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land, the better to sell out stadiums.

0:23

Welcome to Strong Songs, a podcast about music.

0:25

I'm your host, Kirk Hamilton, and I'm so

0:28

glad you've joined me to talk about music

0:30

played by fishes, music played by fish, music

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sung by a fish, and sometimes music sung

0:35

through a fish. Strong

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Songs is listener supported, which means that thanks

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to all of you, I can make this

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show exactly how I want to, with no

0:44

one to tell me different. If you want

0:46

to chip in and keep this thing going,

0:48

go to patreon.com/Strong Songs, or find a link

0:50

for one-time donations in the show notes. On

0:53

this episode, while I kind of spoil the subject

0:55

with the intro joke, but suffice it to say,

0:58

we are going to be talking about one of

1:00

the most successful jam bands of all time, though

1:02

we're going to be talking about one of the

1:04

shortest songs they ever recorded. So let's power up

1:06

the amps, hop on the trampoline, and bounce

1:08

it out. Among

1:29

the many musical phenomena that

1:31

defined the 1990s, the jam

1:33

band stands apart. Usually

1:35

facing one another on stage, lost in

1:37

the moment, eight minutes into a vamp

1:40

on a single chord, searching for some

1:42

transcendent moment that they can conjure forth

1:44

and share with whatever audience has crowded

1:47

around them in communion. tones,

2:00

Phish was on its own level.

2:05

I first heard the band when I was

2:07

in high school. A friend played me their

2:09

1989 studio album, Hunter, when we were supposed

2:11

to be off doing independent study, and I

2:13

spent a few years digging into their back

2:15

catalog, particularly 1993's Rift and 94's Hoist. By

2:20

the time 1998 rolled around, I'd mostly

2:22

moved on to other bands, but that was

2:24

the first year since I discovered Phish that

2:26

they had a new album to release. In

2:30

1998's moody, experimental The Story

2:32

of the Ghost. I

2:35

feel like I've

2:38

been strolled, just slowly

2:40

up and bust. The

2:43

album just threw me in in a certain

2:46

way. I don't know if it technically counts

2:48

as a concept album, but it felt like

2:50

one to me, and this was right around

2:52

the same time that I was discovering Pink

2:54

Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, which I

2:56

talked about on the episode I made dedicated

2:58

to that album of Phish. So I

3:01

really liked Story of the Ghost, and the

3:03

album managed to stay in my rotation even

3:05

after I graduated music school and really opened

3:07

myself up to the wider world of

3:09

funk, soul, and rock and roll music. I

3:11

found so many new obsessions waiting for me

3:13

that I rarely had time to return to

3:16

some of those groups that I loved back

3:18

when I was in high school, but when

3:20

I did Return to Phish, it was always

3:22

to that album, Story of the Ghost, and

3:24

each time I heard it, I was impressed

3:26

anew at the album's musicianship and creative vision.

3:41

My ears had developed to the point that

3:43

I could really pick out and appreciate the

3:45

nuances of each song, and it never stopped

3:47

being fun listening to their carefully arranged four-part

3:50

composition. This

3:52

is a song called Gaiyudi, it's

3:54

kind of the album's centerpiece, and

3:56

I mean, listen to this stuff.

4:08

I always knew that I would want

4:10

to talk about Fish on Strong Songs

4:12

despite or maybe because of the fact

4:14

that I know the band is oddly

4:16

divisive and leaves some people completely cold.

4:19

I wanted to try to articulate my

4:21

own personal relationship with Fish, which never

4:24

actually included the extended live jams or

4:26

the arcane inside references and the deep

4:28

lore from superfans who've been to a

4:30

thousand shows, that stuff all seems really

4:33

fun but it was just never quite

4:35

my thing. For me it was always

4:37

about the studio records and

4:39

their particular mix of

4:41

chamber-style composition, lyrical jokes

4:43

and playful humor, and

4:45

explosions of remarkable musical

4:47

chops. The

4:49

shoulder that I leaned on was carved out

4:52

of stone. But

4:56

when I'm done freezing I wanna

4:59

be alone. And there was

5:01

one song on Story of the Ghost

5:03

that I kept coming back to. It's

5:05

likely my favorite studio recording Fish ever

5:07

made. Everything I like about

5:09

the band compressed into a remarkably tight three

5:11

and a half minute. The

5:16

seventh track on the Story of

5:18

the Ghost, a song called Limb

5:20

by Limb. This

5:28

song's got a lot going for it.

5:30

Evocative, playful lyrics that are so wide

5:33

open to interpretation, a progressive sequence of

5:35

increasingly complex phrases each defined by a

5:37

new arranging idea. Up

5:39

from hell the ants are blue. Up and down it's up

5:41

to you. An ebullient

5:44

groove from bassist Mike Gordon and drummer

5:46

John Fishman. And

5:55

a climactic guitar solo is that despite its compressed

5:58

well time for me well time. among

6:00

Anastasia's best. It's

6:07

an incredibly dense and very fun song, and we're

6:09

going to talk about all of it. So let's

6:11

go. All right, all

6:13

right, all right. We'll get to

6:16

the guitar solo later. First,

6:20

though, some vital songs. Like

6:27

a lot of Phish songs, Limb

6:29

by Limb was the result of

6:31

a collaboration between Anastasia and lyricists

6:33

Tom Marshall and Scott Herman. Marshall's

6:35

name will be familiar to any

6:37

longtime Phish fan. He's written the

6:39

lyrics to an overwhelming number of

6:41

the band's songs, and as a

6:43

result has played a fascinating, if

6:45

somewhat mysterious, role in their enduring

6:47

success. Scott Herman contributed to fewer

6:50

songs in total and as a result is

6:52

somewhat less well known than Marshall, but he

6:54

still helped write a bunch of the band's

6:56

songs. I've always been fascinated by

6:58

musicians who work with lyricists, see

7:01

my year one episode on Elton

7:03

John and Bernie Taupin, but it's

7:05

even more interesting to consider two

7:07

lyricists bouncing ideas off of one

7:09

another in the way that Marshall

7:11

and Herman did before they even

7:13

sent the lyrics along to Anastasia

7:15

in the band to take and

7:17

transform into a finished song. Limb

7:20

by Limb features Anastasia on lead

7:22

vocals and guitar, Paige McConnell on

7:25

piano, co-lead vocals and vocal harmony,

7:27

Mike Gordon on the bass and

7:29

backup vocals, and John Fishman on

7:31

drums and additional backup

7:33

vocals. Note that they're all

7:35

singing on this one, and for all the

7:38

instrumental skill on display in the song, the

7:40

vocal arrangement is actually one of my favorite

7:42

things about it. That's all to come, though.

7:45

Limb by Limb begins in a much simpler,

7:47

more stripped down place, with just Trey Anastasia

7:50

and his guitar. It's

8:18

a great intro and one that

8:20

speaks to how economical this song is.

8:22

It introduces the full harmonic shape

8:24

of the song, it establishes the

8:26

groove, it plants the lyrical seed,

8:28

and one at a time it

8:30

introduces the three instrumental pillars that

8:32

support the song, the guitar, then

8:34

the drums, and then the bass.

8:36

But let's start with the harmony.

8:39

Limb by Limb is in the key

8:41

of F major, and it's not a

8:43

harmonically complex song by any stretch, though

8:45

its form is actually pretty interesting. It

8:47

resists the standard verse-chorus-bridge-solo-chorus structure that

8:49

so many strong songs that I've talked

8:51

about have followed, so I'm not

8:53

going to use those terms on

8:55

this episode. Instead, the song's form is

8:58

best thought of as A-B. There's

9:01

an A section, and there's a B section.

9:04

The A section bounces between two chords, I

9:06

and IV. We're

9:08

in the key of F, so that's

9:11

F and Bb, just bouncing back and

9:13

forth between those two chords. It's a

9:15

very common chord progression, wide open

9:18

for any melody, improvised solo, rhythmic figure, whatever

9:20

you might want to put on top of

9:22

it. The

9:27

B section is another familiar

9:29

progression. It goes flat six

9:31

to flat seven to

9:33

one. In F, that means

9:35

going from Db major to Eb major

9:37

to F. It's just like I to

9:40

IV in that it's a very common

9:42

chord progression, particularly in pop and rock

9:44

music, and it's typically used for dramatic

9:47

builds at the ends of phrases, and

9:49

it is also really fun to solo

9:51

over. So A and

9:59

B. Those

10:04

two chord progressions make up the entirety of

10:07

this song. So

10:20

right there in the first few seconds

10:22

of the song, Tréa Nastasio has already

10:24

laid out the full harmonic picture. He

10:26

begins with the ascending chords of the

10:28

B section. And

10:38

then he transitions to the guitar figure that

10:41

he'll play for much of the rest of

10:43

the song moving between the F and

10:45

Bb of the A section. You

10:52

know how in English class in school they

10:55

teach you to summarize your paper in the

10:57

intro this is like the songwriting version of

10:59

that. It's very tidy. And

11:08

before we get farther into the song I do

11:10

want to note something that Anastasio just did on

11:12

the guitar there. We'll be talking about his guitar

11:15

playing a lot on this episode but I do

11:17

want to clock the figure that he just played

11:19

in between phrases. I

11:26

always like to point out the little

11:28

threads that bind different artists of different

11:30

generations together to help us all better

11:32

appreciate the vast musical tapestry of which

11:34

we are all apart. And when Anastasio

11:36

plays that little fill he's weaving in

11:38

his own thread. He has a suspended

11:40

fourth in a way that feels very

11:42

natural when you're occupying that space on

11:44

the guitar and as he does so

11:46

he's channeling none other than Jimi Hendrix

11:48

who had a fondness for the same

11:51

figure as one of those little flowers

11:53

he liked to plant which I talked

11:55

about recently on my

11:57

episode about his cover of Dylan's All

11:59

Along the Wall. Watchtower. Most

12:02

famously, perhaps, Hendrix planted that flower

12:04

at the start of Little Wings.

12:11

So when Anastasio plays the same figure

12:13

with the same rhythm in kind of

12:15

the same part of the song... Well,

12:21

he is a student of the guitar. His

12:23

solo on the song is like a 60-second

12:25

sprint tour of different guitar solo styles. Here

12:27

at the beginning, I can't read this as

12:29

anything but a little hat tip to one

12:31

of the great. It's

12:39

an unusually dense first five seconds of a

12:41

song, but okay, let's get into the groove.

12:45

First John Fishman enters... With

12:49

an extremely tight quiet roll on his

12:51

snare drum... Parted

12:53

for... The

12:56

bass enters... And the

12:59

groove opens up. So

13:04

let's take apart this groove since it's a

13:06

really cool one. I had a lot of

13:08

fun reassembling this song and I kind of

13:11

went overboard with my recreation actually. I

13:13

wound up recreating basically every single part of

13:15

the entire song, which wasn't what I planned

13:18

to do and wasn't strictly necessary, but it

13:20

was pretty interesting and fun. Once

13:22

I've gotten a certain distance, I figured, well, I might as well

13:24

do the whole thing. The

13:26

process definitely helped me grasp all the subtle

13:29

complexities of the song and it'll help me

13:31

demonstrate a lot of them as well. So

13:33

here we're just hearing the drum groove

13:36

on the A section, which is

13:38

actually a pretty common drum groove

13:40

as these things go. It's a

13:42

modified Afro-Cuban 12-8 groove. This

13:48

kind of 12-8 groove is actually pretty similar

13:50

to a standard 4-4 groove. It

13:52

just fits a triplet of eighth notes

13:54

into every beat. So you start with

13:56

a groove like this... You

14:02

have two clearly defined eighth notes per beat, 1

14:05

and 2 and 3 and 4 and,

14:08

and instead you fit a triplet into E to the eighth.

14:14

So it's 1 to 3, 1 to 3, 1 to 3, 1 to 3. I've

14:18

talked about tunes with 12-8 grooves before,

14:20

often songs that use the triplet to

14:23

make a shuffle feel. No One Knows

14:25

by Queens of the Stone Age, Bernard

14:27

Purdy's Purdy Shuffle on Silly Dan's song

14:29

Babylon Sisters, and just last season I

14:32

did an episode on Everybody Wants to

14:34

Rule the World by Tears for Fears.

14:37

Fishman is doing something a bit different from

14:39

those songs though. Let me show you. Let's

14:41

start with a basic 4-4 groove. Add

14:47

some triplets and you get a shuffle. Now

14:51

let's transition to what Fishman is playing.

14:59

Very different right? So this

15:03

basic groove feels safe but it

15:05

also feels kind of constrained. Fishman's

15:09

12-8 groove feels almost weightless in

15:11

comparison. Like

15:22

any drum groove, Fishman's works one way

15:24

when you play it all together and

15:27

quite differently if you isolate the different

15:29

parts. He's built the groove

15:31

out of his kick, snare, hi-hat and

15:33

ride cymbals, and one of his Rak-toms.

15:37

Let's pick it apart a little bit. Here's just

15:39

a drum. Kick, the

15:41

snare and the tom. Fewer

15:48

notes than you might have thought, right? Let's

15:51

go back to the full groove. So

15:55

now let's do the opposite. Drums out

15:58

with only the ride cymbal and the hi-hat. had

16:00

symbols remaining. So

16:08

let's take out that ride symbol and add

16:10

in the snare drum and we'll have something

16:12

important. This

16:17

is the heart of the matter right here. This

16:27

pattern built around those eighth note

16:29

triplets picking some, skipping others leaves

16:31

a stuttering pulsating rhythmic core around

16:33

which one can drape the other

16:35

instruments in the band like so

16:37

many coats on a coat rack.

16:41

So let's do that. First we'll add the taman

16:43

kick drums and the ride symbol. And

16:48

then we'll add Mike Gordon's electric bass. The

16:53

bass functions as a sub-emphasizer bringing

16:55

out the downbeat of each bar.

17:00

So the last element we have to

17:02

introduce is Trey Anastasio's guitar part. Believe

17:08

it or not, this guitar part was kind of

17:10

the hardest part of this entire song for me

17:12

to recreate and that's including the entire guitar solo.

17:15

I'm actually a better lead player than a rhythm player which

17:17

is a common problem I think and I'm working to address

17:19

it. Trey's rhythm playing has no

17:21

such issues and the part that he's come

17:24

up with seems well with that core hi-hat

17:26

and snare rhythm. Hear

17:31

how they match up? So

17:38

those are the building blocks upon which this A

17:40

section is built. Let's get

17:42

into the vocal arrangement. Then

17:49

by limb has two A sections

17:51

but while the groove and the

17:54

harmony stay

18:00

the same under each of them, the

18:02

lyrics, melody, and vocal arrangement are completely

18:04

different from the first to the second

18:06

one. This first opening A

18:09

section is a call and response

18:11

between Trey Anasasio and Paige McConnell

18:13

who take turns trading phrases that

18:16

each begin with the same word

18:18

before diverging in different directions. First

18:21

comes never. Never want my

18:23

hand cut off. Never want a hacking

18:25

cough. Never need a cliffside push. Never

18:27

turn my brain to mush. Never

18:30

want my hand cut off. Never want

18:32

a hacking cough. Never need a cliffside

18:34

push. Never turn my brain to mush.

18:36

After never comes always and here Trey

18:38

and Paige's lines begin to react to

18:41

one another. McConnell's lines

18:43

continue and subvert whatever idea

18:45

was introduced by Anasasio. Always

18:48

give me what I lack. Always take

18:50

the best parts back. Always recognize

18:53

your fate. Always give me what

18:55

I lack. Always

18:59

recognize your fate. This

19:02

is pretty fun stuff and a good

19:05

example of how playful fish can be

19:07

in how they deliver lyrics. It's all

19:09

a bit abstract and this song is

19:11

certainly open to interpretation. The

19:14

gist that I've always gotten is that this

19:16

song is about someone who is used and

19:18

cast aside and who needs to rediscover who

19:20

they really are. At the top here

19:23

there are all these images of violence,

19:25

sickness and damage, hacking coughs, severed hands,

19:27

a cliffside push and lines that make

19:29

me think of an unsupportive relationship. The

19:31

shoulder that I leaned on was carved

19:33

out of stone and you're

19:35

someone who always takes the best parts

19:37

back. Never want my

19:40

hand cut off. Never want a hacking

19:42

cough. Never need a cliffside

19:44

push. Always give

19:46

me what I lack. I've

19:48

always been fascinated by songwriters who

19:50

work with lyricists in Trey Anastasio

19:53

and Fish's relationship with Tom Marshall

19:55

and less frequently but no less

19:57

interestingly Scott Herman is one of

19:59

the most long-running in fruitful songwriter

20:01

lyricist relationships of all time. There's

20:04

always a bit of mystery around Fish's

20:06

lyrics, which is partly due to the

20:08

abstract imagery and oddball fixations of Marshall's

20:11

poetry, but the mystery is enhanced by

20:13

the process behind the songs. The fact

20:15

that the lyrics are strange and opaque

20:17

is coupled with the fact that the

20:19

guys on stage singing those lyrics aren't

20:22

the people who wrote them. Whenever you

20:24

see Fish perform a song, on some

20:26

level you know that the words they're

20:28

singing came from elsewhere. I

20:30

always recognize your fate. That's

20:33

where I always turn.

20:37

Marshall and Herman have actually talked about

20:39

the specific process of writing this song

20:41

on an episode of Marshall's Under the

20:43

Scales podcast. As it turns out, they

20:45

batted the lyrics back and forth to

20:47

one another as they wrote each taking

20:49

a turn at one set of lines

20:51

before sending it off to the other

20:53

to write the next. Here's

20:55

an excerpt with Marshall talking first

20:58

followed by Herman. So

21:00

that particular call and answer

21:02

that you and I did, I mean we didn't know

21:04

that Trey was going to do a call and answer

21:07

with Page on that, but I think

21:09

the fact that you and I wrote it as

21:11

call and answer and then that Page and Trey

21:14

sang it as call and answer

21:16

made it that much more poignant

21:18

in a way, right? Because I was

21:20

saying like, I never want my hand

21:22

cut off, never want a hand cut

21:24

off. You said never so I

21:26

did always. Always recognize your

21:28

fate. Always, just a moment away. And

21:31

then I said, left is where I always

21:34

turn, left is how I'm forced to learn.

21:36

And then you, rather than go right, you

21:38

went up. I

21:41

did up from how the answer

21:43

is. Up and down. Up and down. It's

21:46

up to you. Up and down. Up

21:48

and down. Up

21:50

from how the answer blew up and down. I

21:56

love that they wrote songs that way, literally

21:58

passing phrases back and forth to one

22:00

another, ten fingers on a musical

22:02

Ouija planchette, seeing where the spirit

22:04

might take them. That final

22:07

line, Up or Down It's Up to You,

22:09

is a real hit at live shows and

22:11

Herman mentions how fun it is to hear

22:13

crowds shout it out whenever the band gets

22:16

to it. He also says that he and

22:18

Marshall actually had a different fundamental understanding of

22:20

what that lyric even means. When

22:23

I wrote it, I meant it a certain

22:25

way that, kind of a straightforward way, it's

22:27

your choice. Up or Down It's Up

22:29

to You. Right, it's your choice. You can do it. And

22:32

when you read it, you interpret it as Up

22:35

or Down. No matter what, it's up

22:37

to you. That's how far down you are. It's up,

22:39

right. Exactly.

22:41

But now, when I hear the crowd

22:44

sing it, I don't know what to think,

22:47

but it's still great fun to

22:50

hear it. Up until now, I never knew.

22:52

Up until now, the ins and blue. Up

22:54

until now, the ins and blue. Up until

22:57

now, the ins and blue. It's cool that

22:59

the guys who wrote the lyric can't say

23:01

for certain what it means or how anyone

23:03

might interpret it. It's a good reminder to

23:05

never be too dogmatic about what a given

23:07

lyric does or doesn't mean. I'll

23:10

always think about Wilco's Jeff Tweedy describing

23:12

not knowing what his song Jesus Etc.

23:15

was about until the first time he

23:17

sang the lyrics out loud in front

23:19

of an audience. The lyrics attained meaning

23:21

in that moment in time with those

23:23

people in attendance. And I like to

23:25

think that all songs can take on

23:28

a new meaning each time they're performed.

23:39

This vocal arrangement works well to emphasize

23:42

the way the two parts complement and

23:44

sometimes compete with one another. Anastasio and

23:46

McConnell have similar enough voices to blend

23:48

effectively when they sing in harmony, so

23:50

they've put an EQ filter on McConnell

23:55

and panned him to the right to help him

23:57

stand apart. You could almost have the same person.

24:00

and sing both parts and that it still

24:02

sound like two different people. Never

24:04

want my hand cut off Never want a

24:06

hacking car Never need a cliffside push Never

24:08

turn my brain to mush Always give

24:10

me what I lack Always take the best

24:13

part back Always recognize your thing Always just

24:15

a moment lane Left is where I always

24:17

turn Left is how I'm forced to

24:19

learn Alright, but let's get back to the

24:22

original version. I forget the person

24:24

who Up until now I'm Let's get into the

24:26

next part of the song. This

24:55

first B section introduces a number of

24:57

new elements to the song, and the

24:59

end result is a sense of grand

25:01

openness that stands in contrast to the

25:03

constrained bouncing of the A section. So

25:05

the B section, if you remember from

25:07

the very beginning of the song, follows

25:09

that dramatic flat 6, flat

25:12

7 to 1 progression.

25:14

It does that a few times

25:16

while melody takes place over top,

25:18

and it's on those chords that

25:20

the fourth member of the band,

25:22

pianist Paige McConnell, finally enters the

25:24

arrangement. It's

25:30

a really dramatic contrast. He's not

25:32

playing a ton of notes, just

25:35

big blocky major tryouts. With

25:40

that, along with the fact that Mike

25:42

Gordon has moved to longer, fuller bass

25:44

notes, really fills out the sound of

25:46

the band. Despite

25:51

the fact that the drums and the guitar aren't

25:55

really playing anything all that different aside from a

25:57

nice drum fill for the end. That

26:05

leaves one last new element on

26:07

the B section, the melody and

26:09

vocal harmonies, both performed by Tran

26:12

Asazio and Paige McConnell. I think

26:14

they sound great here. The

26:26

B section is the only part of the

26:29

song with parallel vocal harmonies, by which I

26:31

mean two singers singing the same lyrics at

26:33

the same time on different notes harmonizing.

26:35

Both Anasazio and McConnell are singing in

26:37

their upper registers here, and it's a

26:40

good snapshot of something that the two

26:42

of them do particularly well. Anasazio has

26:44

a good mix holler. He starts on

26:46

an F, which is not super high,

26:48

but he's up at the top of

26:50

his chest resonance. He's kind of belting

26:53

it out. And McConnell is much

26:55

higher. He has a really capable upper register

26:57

blend and often provides a lot of those

26:59

high parallel harmonies on fish songs, which is

27:01

a big part of their sound, even if

27:03

you don't always think about it. He

27:06

starts up on an A flat and sounds really

27:08

good up on those high notes. As

27:25

for the lyrics, this is a good

27:27

example of an interesting thing that sometimes

27:29

happens with songwriting, where you'll recycle old

27:31

material and find a new home for

27:33

it. That opening lyric, Drop Me Off

27:35

the Chinese Wall, is a holdover from

27:37

a much older writing session way back

27:39

in the 80s. It never found

27:41

a home until now. Marshall

27:44

and Herman say that was Marshall's line,

27:46

but from a much earlier session, and

27:48

Anasazio just had a sense that it

27:50

would work here. Yeah,

27:52

I definitely wrote that,

27:55

but I think it was in

27:57

a different song. Okay,

28:00

but Trey sort of Can

28:03

put two things together and it works tremendously

28:06

well Sometimes he'll put two things

28:08

together that I sort of you know Don't

28:11

look back in anger Look

28:14

back in anger and say why did he do

28:16

that? But yeah For

28:19

the most part he always kind of when whenever

28:21

he does one of those like, you

28:23

know merges No

28:25

one knows the kind of work in most of the time He

28:28

just grabs no one may know

28:30

ever know that that was emerged

28:32

until now Nice

28:38

to hear songwriters talk about that kind

28:41

of recycling because it highlights just what

28:43

a process songwriting is 90%

28:46

of the time you don't just find the

28:48

song fully formed as if offered from on

28:50

high you work at it You assemble the

28:52

pieces sometimes old discarded pieces and you find

28:54

a way to make it work So

29:03

Let's keep going the second a section is a

29:05

real high point of the song for me And

29:12

that's entirely down to the reimagined melody

29:14

and vocal arrangement I Really

29:20

love this section. So I want to really

29:22

lean into my recreation here to show you

29:24

all the layer The

29:27

groove is the same as on the first

29:29

a though treas slightly changed his guitar part

29:32

It has this ringing ass up on top.

29:34

It's a little thing, but it makes a

29:36

noticeable difference So

29:40

for the vocals all four members of

29:42

the band are singing different parts and

29:44

that's key to what makes this section

29:46

work So well first on the bottom

29:48

There's a vocal part that's singing the

29:51

songs title limb by limb on an

29:53

F the one with a simple repeating

29:55

rhythm Next

30:02

comes the second part of singing the

30:05

same words off the third with a

30:07

clever rhythmic twist. Can

30:11

you hear

30:13

what's going on? So

30:16

here's the low part and

30:18

the high part. It's

30:32

really clever and the cleverness is

30:34

in the simplicity. The two parts

30:36

start together and then split into

30:39

a triplet polyrhythm, then go back

30:41

together. Remember, triplets are central to

30:43

this kind of 12-8 groove, but

30:45

the fun of Afro-Cuban music is

30:47

the polyrhythms, which, as you'd probably

30:50

guess, means multiple different rhythms placed

30:52

up against one another. In

30:54

12-8, you have a lot of 3 against 2. That

30:57

lower part is a 2 feel.

31:00

1 2 1 2. Lim-by-lim-by. It's

31:03

very straightforward. The

31:05

higher part starts as a 2 feel

31:07

as well. 1 2 1 2. But

31:09

then it splits into a 3 feel.

31:12

1 2 3 1

31:14

2 3. Lim-by-lim-by.

31:16

Lim-by-lim-by. Lim-by-lim-by. Lim-by-lim-by.

31:18

By having the two

31:21

parts singing the same words and

31:23

starting in the same place, you

31:25

get this wonderful musical effect of

31:27

focus harmony that then blurs out

31:29

of focus into a polyrhythm and

31:31

then snaps back into focus, like

31:33

someone's turning and re-turning the dial

31:35

on a pair of binoculars. I

31:44

just really love it a lot, and it

31:46

provides a nice foundation for the rest of

31:48

the vocal arrangement. The next part

31:51

is sung by Mike Gordon. A lot

31:53

of the piece is this drawn-out part

31:55

that stretches out over those busier, more

31:57

peri-rhythmic, lower parts. Minutes

32:06

and sung in the sense of

32:08

when he the seals as far

32:10

away as superior sets of nice

32:12

sojourning quality of her from. Final

32:27

of of a part is tree

32:29

anasazi of seed structured is assisting

32:31

response referred him cause. Take

32:39

all for vocal parts together. Sales

32:44

are you get a lovely vocals

32:46

supers for. My.

33:00

Analysis and to the original. Saddle

33:07

said. I'm

33:09

not actually positive who's singing which are many

33:11

part in the studio version. That third from

33:13

a actually sounds a little bit like train.

33:18

With the overall effect is for me

33:21

among the best if is often invented

33:23

vocal arrangements and costs into any second

33:25

phone call. A

33:29

lot of that is due to the

33:31

way the musical arrangements have tails with

33:33

the lyrics. Like I've mentioned to me,

33:36

the limb by limb is the story

33:38

of death and rebirth. Be at the

33:40

ego death, the proceeds enlightenment or the

33:42

emotional death. The proceeds a personal reawakening

33:44

and during the second a session his

33:47

body fluids far away through the world.

33:49

Toss with the salad and failed with

33:51

the say trampled by mans and hacked

33:53

by the dove. Another

33:58

thoughtful of eating. there's still

34:00

something peaceful about it and I think

34:03

that's because this song is ultimately about

34:05

dissolution and Reformation the

34:07

words limb by limb are often

34:09

associated with destruction But as the

34:11

climactic lyrics of the B section

34:13

go I come on glued but

34:16

land to reform That

34:29

second B section isn't super different from

34:31

the first one aside from some pretty

34:34

exciting drumming drum town fishman He starts

34:36

with this monster opening drum fill Followed

34:47

by this extremely cool hemiola figure

34:54

Nasty listen to it right here This

35:01

comfort was really fun to transcribe and I love

35:03

what he plays under this But

35:14

okay, okay The

35:17

lyrics have been sung the arrangement has been

35:20

expressed it's time for a guitar

35:22

solo This

35:33

is an absolutely smoking solo, it's

35:35

probably my favorite fish guitar solo

35:38

of all time It's

35:40

almost exactly one minute long But

35:42

as I said earlier that one

35:44

minute functions as a breathless tour

35:47

of a variety of different guitar

35:49

styles from chromatic bebop Figures to

35:51

single note rhythmic excursions to Prague

35:53

arpeggio sweeps Hendrixie blues licks melodic

35:55

callbacks and harmonic enclosures And

35:57

while the guitar Lead is consistently exciting,

36:00

m consistently in the front. The

36:02

real joy of this solo sex

36:04

and is the interplay between the

36:06

solo and the rest of the

36:08

band, particularly fisherman's drums and Gordon's

36:11

cleats. Sam

36:21

can sometimes feel it was mean

36:23

to for musicians solo at the

36:25

same time, and Mother sometimes uses

36:27

a negative way of describing their

36:29

approach to improvisation. On limb by

36:31

limb, each part is single, considered

36:33

and has formed Said it all

36:35

fits. Together use. Some

36:47

get a whole thing apart and then put

36:49

it back together for you with an unusual

36:51

amount of detail because like I said, I

36:53

recreated this entire part of the song and

36:55

well, I didn't spend a while transcribing the

36:58

solo. I found the solo really is only

37:00

part of the picture. Strays playing more than

37:02

a quarter of the notes, but he really

37:04

is only playing with a quarter of the

37:06

movie and I want to stress hear that

37:09

While I did spend a long time carefully

37:11

working out the guitar solo and I tried

37:13

really hard to get it up the tempo,

37:16

While I am first and foremost saxophone

37:18

player still, the matter how much guitar

37:20

practice of the last year and a

37:22

half and I had to do some

37:24

seeding to get my pull requests of

37:26

the Solar up the tempo. Sometimes in

37:28

some editing san I don't want to

37:30

get the impression that I can just

37:32

play this thing perfectly in one take

37:34

this or is really fast. it's faster

37:36

than it sounds, which is often true

37:38

of really technically complex music played by

37:40

really technically masterful musicians. And my touch

37:42

on the guitar just isn't a plane

37:44

enough to. Nail it at tempo

37:47

in one go. let's

37:50

start from the top tray opens with a

37:52

very simple the sending melodic line he starts

37:54

in a season walks down and as scale

37:56

to the a than drops down to a

37:58

c down the active As

38:07

you can probably hear from what I'm

38:09

playing on piano, this part of the

38:12

solo takes place on the A chord

38:14

progression, bouncing back and forth between I

38:16

and IV, F and Bb major. Like

38:18

I said, it's a really simple opening

38:20

phrase, just walking down an F major

38:23

scale, but the opening of this solo

38:25

feels explosive. That's

38:34

due to what's happening across the rest of the

38:36

band as well as where the solo

38:38

actually begins. The whole thing is set

38:40

up by a return to that core

38:42

12-8 rhythmic figure that I highlighted way

38:44

back earlier in the episode, that figure

38:46

in the hi-hat and the electric guitar.

38:53

The solo doesn't actually start on one, on

38:55

the downbeat of the next bar, it's displaced

38:57

by an eighth note and the whole band

38:59

comes crashing in on the second beat of

39:01

the bar. So you're cruising along in 12-8,

39:03

1-2-3, 2-2-3, 1-2-3, 2-2-3, 1-2, and that's where

39:05

the band comes

39:10

in. Listen and I'll count it. 1-2-3,

39:14

2-2-3, 1-2-3, 2-2-3, 1. The

39:22

whole thing to feel even with

39:24

me counting it due to the

39:26

polyrhythmic nature of that core rhythmic

39:28

figure, but it's a big part

39:31

of why that opening note feels

39:33

so surprising and explosive. And

39:35

then once the rhythm section has all come

39:37

in, things get even more exciting. Here's my

39:39

recreation of that opening line with the full

39:41

band, with all the parts in. Here

39:46

we go. So

39:55

that's what we're starting with. First let's take

39:57

that lead guitar out and just hear what's

39:59

going on. in the rest of the band. All

40:09

right, so that makes it easier to

40:11

hear everything. So on top we've got

40:13

McConnell's piano along with an overdubbed rhythm

40:16

guitar part from Anastasio playing the chords

40:18

in a pretty steady rhythmic figure. Let's

40:23

take those out and just listen to the

40:25

bass and the drums. Now

40:34

that's pretty cool. As it turns out,

40:36

Mike Gordon is playing more notes here

40:38

in those opening couple of bars than

40:40

Anastasio is in the lead part. He

40:42

lands on this pretty busy opening line.

40:51

He works really well with the guitar part

40:53

on top. Listen to just those two together

40:55

and think of them as performing counterpoint to

40:57

one another. Meanwhile

41:05

Fishman's drum part does something similar.

41:07

He opens straight into this complex

41:09

figure that builds right alongside Anastasio's

41:11

line. He sets up and then

41:13

rolls through this really intense drum

41:15

fill crashing down a couple of

41:17

bars after the band enters in

41:20

a way that matches the contours

41:22

of the guitar lead. Listen

41:25

to just the guitar and the drums together

41:27

and pay attention to how they're both moving

41:29

in the same direction. Let's

41:38

increase the complexity by adding the bass back

41:40

in. Pretty

41:49

cool, right? Alright, now let's flesh it

41:51

out by adding the piano and that

41:53

second rhythm guitar part back in, which

41:55

will just fill out the chords without

41:57

adding too much rhythmic complexity since it's

41:59

already It's pretty busy even without those

42:01

parts in. It's

42:10

such a ferocious opening for a solo.

42:13

The next part of the solo is a nice little bebop-y climb up to

42:15

a rhythmic single note finger

42:35

that then dominates the next few bars.

42:38

It's a transitional couple of bars here

42:40

before that though. The guitar plays this.

42:52

So as you can hear, the guitar line starts with

42:54

a lot of notes and then resolves

42:56

to an A that just begins repeating.

42:58

It's a chaotic bit of playing that

43:01

resolves to something simpler and that's reflected

43:03

in what the rest of the band

43:05

plays. Here's my recreation at tempo with

43:07

the rest of the parts. Kind

43:16

of a lie going on there. Let's take out the

43:18

lead guitar and just listen to everyone else. I

43:28

think Mike Gordon's bass playing there

43:30

really demonstrates how sympathetically he plays

43:33

under Trey's solos. This part really

43:35

matches up with the guitar lead.

43:38

Here's the bass on its own. Now

43:47

listen to it along with the electric

43:49

guitar and pay attention to how both

43:51

lines are moving in the same direction.

43:53

They both climb and then plateau together

43:55

and then when the guitar hits that

43:57

A and begins to sit on it.

43:59

The bass. moves downward and diverges

44:01

from it. It's a cool moment

44:04

of synchronicity followed by divergence. Okay,

44:26

so here's a story about my dog. Her

44:28

name is Appa. She's a golden retriever and

44:31

she loves it when we make popcorn because

44:33

she likes to stand under the popcorn popper

44:35

in the kitchen and catch stray kernels if

44:37

they bounce out of the bowl. She gets

44:40

so excited. She can't even handle it. And

44:42

this part of the solo makes me think

44:44

of her every time I hear it. Trey

44:46

just sits on an A for this whole

44:48

section. He kind

44:57

of just becomes a drummer because he's

44:59

just playing one note. And meanwhile, Fishman's

45:01

drumming matches with Trey's percussive playing and

45:04

they almost do a little drum duet

45:06

for a couple of bars. Right

45:21

in the middle of that section, there's

45:23

this magic moment where the guitar and

45:25

the snare drum perfectly line up. It's

45:27

when Fishman drops these eight notes on

45:29

the snare drum. It's a remarkable moment

45:32

of synchronicity and there are so many

45:34

moments like that in this solo and

45:36

each one speaks to how in tune

45:38

with one another these guys are. I

45:40

don't think they planned any of this

45:42

out exactly, but they've been playing together

45:44

for long enough that they could just

45:47

kind of feel where it would be

45:49

best to go at any given moment.

45:51

Here's my full recreation of that part with

45:53

all the parts in, but really just keep

45:55

your ears on the guitar and the drums.

45:58

And if any popcorn flies out of the

46:00

ball be sure to catch it. Here

46:02

it comes. At

46:31

this point the band is wrapping up the

46:33

A section and preparing to transition to the

46:35

more dramatic ascending B section, which

46:38

will actually take them out of the

46:40

solo. Trey wraps up by continuing his

46:42

rhythmic explorations on A, the note A

46:44

that is, doing a fun little guitar

46:46

trick where he slides back and forth

46:49

between two different versions of A played

46:51

on different frets of the second and

46:53

third strings. It's

46:57

a cool trick that adds just a little bit of

46:59

color when played at his speed. He

47:03

keeps it going... before

47:08

transitioning into the B section. So

47:12

before I pick it apart and slow

47:14

it down, just listen to that transition

47:16

from the end of the A section

47:18

into the B section, and then just

47:20

the B section out because the entire

47:22

rest of the solo is kind of

47:24

one big long phrase. It's

47:50

so cool. good

48:00

man it's just when fish decides to do

48:02

the thing they can really do the thing.

48:09

So I'm gonna speed it up eventually but

48:11

I want to start slow so you can

48:13

really hear the notes he's playing because he

48:15

plays this very dense and complex line that

48:17

goes on for a long time and

48:19

it's really cool how he develops

48:21

it. He basically alternates between arpeggio

48:23

figures on the way up and

48:26

blues fingers on the way down.

48:28

Once the B section begins things take

48:30

a kind of prog turn he starts

48:33

playing these really fast precise arpeggio figures

48:35

that move straight through the chords of

48:37

the B section which remember are

48:39

D flat then E flat and

48:41

then F. So

48:44

the arpeggio line goes he

48:51

then resolves to F major and takes

48:53

it down this F blues lick that

48:55

could have been paid by Jimmy himself.

49:03

Then back up the arpeggio

49:07

only recording the melody. And

49:13

the next phrase he actually just goes full

49:15

blues for the entire thing on all three

49:17

chords of the B section. The

49:27

end of the phrase starts with this cool

49:29

anticipatory enclosure that's really kind of like Charlie

49:32

Parker bebop thing. It's an oddball closing line

49:34

that I love. I won't get bogged down

49:36

in analysis but just like this is cool.

49:47

Bit of an approximation there but that's close

49:49

enough. The

49:52

Rest of the band really brings it during this

49:54

section as well. There is actually a second guitar

49:56

overdubbed, a rhythm guitar panned over to the right

49:58

that kind of just plays. Distorted power

50:00

chords. it joins the piano over there

50:03

to further in bigger fi these dramatic

50:05

be six and. A

50:13

page mcconnell haven't a lot of fun

50:15

massing as a try on this stance.

50:17

Fishermen is giving grandiosity he has. he's

50:20

punching more down these and not with

50:22

Sick and Crafts symbol almost. Solo

50:32

has a number of high points here.

50:35

At the end, I'd say it reaches

50:37

it's apex with a tag team explosion

50:39

from Anasazi. Oh, insists Mints First Tree

50:41

builds his most complex or pegi of

50:44

figure into this glorious quote of the

50:46

melody. He

50:53

hear that it's the same notes

50:55

that mcconnell things during the Be

50:57

section when he sings land to

51:00

a farm. For.

51:11

Immediately after he plays that system and

51:13

picks up the baton with one last

51:15

cascading throne. Which.

51:19

Anasazi oh catches in the middle of

51:21

the phil and lands on the downbeat

51:23

he just drive into the ground. With

51:25

this closing, it's thin unison blues read:

51:33

all of that in a matter of seconds

51:36

it's so perfect i don't know what to

51:38

do with that listen to that sex and

51:40

it's just the guitar and drums and cats

51:42

are the two parts to seamlessly hand off

51:44

to one another It's

52:06

such a great solo that for me

52:08

at least becomes even more fun the

52:10

better I know it. The cresting climactic

52:12

figures at the end there come so

52:14

close one right after the next that

52:17

I find that I appreciate them better

52:19

when I know which one to expect

52:21

next. But okay, I could spend

52:23

another 30 minutes on this solo, but I think

52:25

it's time to just let you all listen to

52:27

it in its entirety. I'm going to play my

52:29

full recreation first and then I'm going to let

52:31

Fish take it home. And while I

52:33

know the whole thing moves fast and there is a

52:36

lot of music happening at once, just

52:38

see if you can relax your

52:40

ears and take in as much

52:43

of it as you can. Listen

52:45

to Trey's exciting, ever-changing lead lines

52:47

as they move from fast-moving, ascending

52:49

figures to a levitating, single-note figure

52:51

to a home stretch of arpeggios

52:53

and blues riffs. Let the

52:56

piano and overdubbed guitar tracks fill out

52:58

the harmony without getting too in the

53:00

way. Hear how Mike Gordon's fleet-footed bass

53:03

lines dance right alongside the guitar lead

53:05

and how quickly John Fishman shifts his

53:07

drumming mode to let go of or grab

53:09

hold of what the bass and the guitar

53:12

are doing. But above all else,

53:14

just sit back and enjoy the ride. Here's

53:17

on Let's Do It. Alright,

54:10

you've heard me do it enough times, you've got it in

54:12

your ear, now let's listen to the real

54:14

thing. There

55:13

is so much more I could say about

55:15

Phish, who among other things are one of

55:17

the most prolific, successful live bands of all

55:20

time. There are loads of live recordings of

55:22

this song that are wildly different from this

55:24

original studio recording. For starters, they never even

55:26

go into the B section during their guitar

55:28

solo. And they add some additional lyrics

55:31

to the second A section when they do it

55:33

live as well. But when it

55:35

comes down to it, the studio version

55:37

of Limb by Limb, with its three

55:39

and a half minutes of incredible creativity

55:42

and intimidating technique, encapsulates everything I

55:44

love about this band. And

55:46

that makes sense. It's like a core sample

55:48

of what makes Phish great. Whether

55:51

they're in the middle of a 35 minute live jam

55:53

or a three and a half minute studio

55:56

composition, it's the same four guys, the same

55:58

warm musicality, and the same music. in

56:00

goofy playfulness, the same drama,

56:02

the same comedy, the same

56:04

feeling of exuberant exploration. The

56:07

same joy, the same chops, the same

56:10

heart, and the same fish.

56:55

And that'll do it for my analysis of limb

56:58

by limb by the one and only fish. I

57:01

hope you enjoyed this episode. If you haven't listened to

57:03

much fish, I hope it gave you a sense of

57:05

what's cool about the band, and if you're already a

57:07

fan, I know there's a ton of

57:09

stuff that I didn't have space for, but I

57:11

hope I managed to articulate some of what I like

57:13

about the band and about this song. Thank

57:15

you as always for listening, and special thanks

57:18

to Emily Williams for her production support, to

57:20

Scott Pemberton for helping me decode some of

57:22

those oddball, guitar-y things the trade does on

57:25

that solo, and to Dan Abchinski for

57:27

rekindling my fish appreciation many years after

57:29

I had stopped listening to them. And

57:32

thanks to all of my patrons who

57:34

support this show and who make it

57:37

possible for me to take on insane

57:39

tasks like recreating John Fishman's entire drum

57:41

part on limb by limb, note for

57:43

note. If you want to support the

57:45

show and more feats like that, I

57:47

would really appreciate it. Go to patreon.com/strong

57:49

songs to find out more. Believe

57:52

it or not, there's only a few episodes left in

57:54

season six. We've got two more single song

57:56

episodes and a mailbag Q&A to go.

57:59

I've already got a lot of good questions

58:01

primed for the mailbag, but if you want

58:03

to send one in for future consideration, or

58:06

if you want to reach out for any

58:08

other reason, send emails to listeners at strongsongspodcast.com.

58:11

In the show notes, you can find links

58:13

for Strong Songs merch. Sign up for my

58:16

newsletter, and by the time you're hearing this,

58:18

I should have published a new one of

58:20

those links to playlists for all the songs

58:22

I've talked about on the show, along with

58:24

links to my sporadically active social media accounts,

58:27

the Strong Songs Discord, and more. Alright,

58:29

that'll do it for now, so it's time

58:31

for me to sign off. As always, take

58:33

care, and keep listening. Thanks

58:58

for watching!