0:00

fellow conspiracy realist, this episode

0:02

is for anyone who has

0:04

a student loan, which is

0:07

a large amount

0:09

of people. Man, it was the most big

0:11

boy pants moment of my adult life when

0:13

I paid off my meager student loans. And

0:15

I was very lucky to have gotten something

0:17

called the Hope Scholarship, which in the state

0:20

of Georgia, if you make A's and B's,

0:22

pays for a large portion of your college.

0:24

I took out a loan just to pay

0:26

for some living costs and some equipment and

0:28

things like that. And even that stuck

0:31

with me for a long time. And when

0:33

I finally was able to pay it off,

0:35

it was a big deal. But I know

0:37

people that depend on student loans with their

0:40

entire tuition are not that lucky. Can you

0:42

believe that I never had a student loan,

0:44

guys? That's awesome. I can believe that. I'm

0:46

that privileged. Oh, my goodness. But I did

0:49

pay my ex-wife student loans and they were

0:51

steep. Especially with

0:53

the interest rate. What

0:56

was it? Oh, there's the old

0:58

Mark Twain line about compounding interest.

1:00

This episode is from 2019, folks, from February

1:02

of 2019, wherein

1:07

we talk about the idea

1:09

of student loans as a

1:11

systematic conspiracy. At the time

1:13

that we recorded this, the

1:16

overall student loan debt in

1:18

the United States was one

1:20

point five trillion dollars,

1:22

which is barely even a

1:24

real number. And

1:28

then, hey, since then, five years later, some

1:30

of us have had our student loans

1:33

just wiped from existence. And

1:36

the question is, what happens

1:39

with all of this money,

1:41

all of these expectations when

1:43

the bubble. I'm

1:46

doing onomatopoeia. I'm doing something. It bursted.

1:48

It burst. All right. Here's

1:52

the show. You know

1:54

that feeling when you walk into your home? Take

1:57

a deep breath and

1:59

feel. When

3:21

you buy Kroger brand products, you

3:23

feel like you're winning. That's

3:26

because they offer proven quality at lower

3:28

than low prices. In

3:30

fact, we guarantee that you and your

3:32

family will love how Kroger brand products

3:35

taste. Or you get your money back. So

3:37

next time you're shopping for the

3:39

family, look for delicious Kroger brand

3:42

products. Because they'll make you all feel

3:44

like you're winning. Shop now,

3:46

in store or online. Kroger.

3:48

Fresh for everyone. for

14:00

a year. Yeah. And then ...

14:02

And then get another one of

14:05

those 0% offers and keep bouncing

14:07

around. But

14:09

for real, that's why these loans, perhaps

14:11

at least one of the reasons these

14:13

loans are so enticing, because of that

14:15

interest rate in the pretty long grace

14:17

period. Well, and because it goes to

14:20

a good cause, right? It is furthering

14:22

your education. Education

14:24

is widely agreed. I

14:26

want to be careful about how I say

14:28

this, because some people might object. Education is

14:30

widely agreed to be a public good. We

14:33

can all agree that depending on the type of

14:35

education we're talking about, knowing

14:37

things like engineering, math,

14:40

literacy, that sort of

14:42

stuff, these things are just matters

14:44

of fact rather than opinion. The

14:47

more people who are aware of these things,

14:49

the more people who are competent

14:51

in these disciplines, the

14:53

better society will tend to

14:55

be. Huzzah. It's true. I

14:58

mean, everybody ... The

15:02

world is not going to automatically

15:04

be perfect if everybody gets a

15:06

chance to study trigonometry. But

15:09

that is a positive factor. Learning

15:11

is ... Knowledge is power. Yeah. It

15:14

wouldn't hurt anything, except for maybe everybody

15:16

would be a little more bothered by

15:19

simple things that

15:21

require complex trigonometry that I

15:23

just don't understand. I know.

15:26

Also ... Yeah. Okay. Trigonometry

15:29

may not be the best example, but

15:31

it is true that these loans are

15:33

for good cause. They have

15:35

a grace period typically sometime after an

15:37

education is completed. While you are a

15:40

student past a certain threshold

15:42

of course hours, you will not have to

15:44

pay this loan. Not all student loans

15:46

are the same. Some are

15:48

federally funded by these United

15:50

States of America. Some are

15:52

private. And some are

15:55

designed specifically like Pell Grants to

15:57

help financially needy students. Those aren't

15:59

really ... loans, that's money that

16:01

is given to you. Some

16:03

offer protection for borrowers and then of

16:06

course interest rates that

16:08

should be below market. When

16:11

the federal government issues these loans, they

16:13

offer low fixed interest rates and that

16:16

makes them more attractive in

16:18

contrast to private loans that

16:20

may have a variable rate of some

16:22

sort. So we don't have to

16:25

get too far in the weeds on the

16:27

different types of loans other than to establish

16:29

the primary categories that differentiate student loans from

16:31

any other kind of loan you would get.

16:34

They're not a mortgage, they're not a car note, etc.

16:37

These have private public

16:39

lenders, they have qualification

16:41

requirements, right? The

16:45

primary one being that you can't get a student

16:47

loan unless you're going to be a student, right?

16:50

They have lower interest rates and they

16:53

have flexibility on their payment schedules and

16:55

their timelines. You

16:57

said that these were enticing, Matt. You're

17:00

absolutely right. Tons

17:02

of people have student loans.

17:05

There are more than 44 million

17:08

borrowers and people who have a student

17:11

loan with some outfit in the country

17:13

as we speak now. And

17:15

they had to. In many ways these people were forced into

17:18

this because in the decade between 2006 and 2016,

17:22

the overall cost of college rose 63%. And

17:26

that increased student loan debt by four

17:29

times. The student loan

17:31

debt now is at

17:33

around 1.5, get

17:35

ready for this, trillion. With

17:41

a T, like T-BAS and TLC. Yep.

17:44

Can't calculate it. My trigonometry skills are not up to

17:47

par as they should be. Did you take trig? I

17:49

did. I took advanced trig, but I

17:51

had no idea. No idea. I

17:54

kind of muddled my way through algebra, man. I had to get,

17:56

I was not good. Math is not my

17:58

strong suit. I've got the gift of

18:01

gab, my friends. So

18:03

it's tough to think of 1.5 trillion. It's

18:08

distressingly difficult for most of us

18:10

to really comprehend what a

18:12

billion is. You

18:15

know what I mean? So one

18:18

way that could be helpful to

18:21

get our heads around what 1.5

18:23

trillion is is to compare

18:25

it to other things. Facebook

18:28

is worth $541.5 billion-ish. Microsoft,

18:33

$750.6 billion. These

18:37

are ballparking. That means that the American

18:39

student loan debt is worth more than

18:41

those two entities put together. It's

18:44

about $521 billion more than all the credit card debt in

18:48

this country combined. Whoa. It's

18:51

big money. That's insane.

18:53

So big that it's like ephemeral

18:56

made up money. I don't know. It

18:58

just seems unquantifiably huge to me. I

19:00

get that it is, in fact, by its

19:02

very nature quantifiable. But it just seems like GDP

19:05

kind of money. I mean,

19:07

it's bonkers. We're totally a total US debt kind

19:09

of money back in the day. And now that's

19:12

just ridiculous. But yeah, I see what you're

19:14

saying. That's wow. Well,

19:17

what's the average amount that

19:19

each person is carrying around

19:21

with? For people

19:23

in the class of 2016, for instance, the

19:27

average student would graduate with $37,172

19:33

in student loan debt. See, I

19:35

hope. Just to offer a counterpoint, I was

19:37

lucky in that I had Hope Scholarship, which

19:39

is a Georgia thing. I think probably Matt

19:41

did as well. We all did. We're

19:43

all pumping our fists here. I

19:45

did still take out a couple of student loans,

19:47

but it was to pay for equipment that I

19:49

wanted for my studies. I was doing

19:51

film work, and I wanted a nice computer and

19:53

all of that, and just ways to supplement my

19:55

income while I was in school, even though I

19:57

worked. But it was like a crappy job. And

48:00

its stock rose sharply after the election

48:02

of Donald Trump, which is nice. That

48:05

occurred not that long ago.

48:08

And a lot of other companies saw a big spike there. But

48:11

Navient also has a ton of complaints.

48:13

They've got more complaints than any other

48:15

borrower, any other servicer, and this is

48:18

according to a fusion analysis of data

48:20

over a course of years. Right,

48:23

right. So these

48:25

complaints have a running theme.

48:27

The theme is that the company, Navient,

48:29

has failed to live up to the

48:31

terms of its contracts and that it

48:34

illegally harasses consumers. I'm sure we all

48:36

have friends and maybe some personal experience,

48:39

not to call anybody out, wherein

48:41

Navient stalks you.

48:43

Right? From random numbers. From

48:46

random numbers, right? Seriously.

48:49

But Navient says in their defense

48:51

that most of the

48:53

anger that they're getting from consumers, and

48:56

notice they say consumers, not former students.

48:59

It's like, we already did an episode

49:01

of that, right? No, the citizens became

49:04

consumers. We've touched on that.

49:06

That was a different show. That was a

49:08

different show. But we've touched on that in

49:10

multiple episodes of this show. It's scary. It's

49:12

scary. If you were over 25, that happened

49:14

while you were alive. And

49:17

if you're old enough to have

49:19

seen it, it's spooky how we

49:21

used to say citizen and now

49:23

we say consumer. So

49:26

gross, man. But

49:29

Navient says, in Navient's case, to be

49:31

fair, these are consumers. It's

49:33

a publicly traded company. So Navient

49:36

says that most of the problems that

49:39

people are complaining about come from the

49:41

structural issues surrounding college finance,

49:44

like terms of the loans.

49:46

And that, they say, is up to the federal

49:48

government and the private banks. We

49:50

don't make the rules. They say, we're

49:53

just doing our job filling the contract

49:55

so the complaints are not about our

49:57

customer service. They're complaining about

49:59

the wrongs. basket

58:00

weaving, synchronized underwater basket weaving,

58:02

when you have a whole group of people

58:04

doing it. I don't know.

58:06

It creeps me out. In sync.

58:08

Which is what the boy band is named after,

58:10

right? That's how they all met. That's totally right.

58:13

So is this a

58:15

bubble? This is one of the big concerns.

58:17

I mean, not underwater basket weaving or boy

58:19

bands. I think

58:21

K-pop is here to stay also. But

58:24

is this student loan situation a bubble? The

58:26

answer for a lot of people is going

58:29

to be yes. But the

58:31

answer for a lot of people is going to be no. What

58:34

we, we should explain what we mean when

58:36

we say a bubble in terms of economics.

58:38

So there's a guy named Brent Goldfarb, a

58:40

professor of business at the University of Maryland.

58:42

He's an author of a book called Bubbles

58:44

and Crashes, the Boom and Bust of Technological

58:47

Innovation. And he says

58:49

the best way to think of a

58:51

bubble in financial terms is to think

58:53

about a stock that people keep buying

58:56

mostly because other people are buying the

58:58

same thing. It's a herd movement. And

59:01

then Vice wrote a pretty

59:04

solid article about this. And

59:06

they said the best known examples of

59:08

recent bubbles would be the mortgage crisis,

59:11

the homes that people live in, in

59:13

the US. So what

59:16

happened is at least two different sets

59:18

of people started thinking the price of

59:20

something, housing in this case, was just

59:23

going to keep going up. So people

59:25

kept buying property for inflated prices and

59:27

people kept lending them money to do

59:30

so. Eventually the center

59:32

cannot hold like Chinua Achebe says.

59:35

And so the

59:37

another bubble would be the

59:39

stock, the.com stock bubble in

59:42

the 2000s. And

59:44

they were very different but they shared

59:46

one thing. The

59:49

mass runaway delusion about how much

59:51

something, about how much people thought

59:53

something was worth versus how much

59:55

it was actually worth. And

59:59

the problem... here is that people

1:00:02

say people feel like companies

1:00:04

like Navient and Wall Street

1:00:07

investors and colleges

1:00:09

and universities are

1:00:11

accelerating this bubble because

1:00:14

people are saying well a college

1:00:16

education is worth so much

1:00:18

over the span of my life that I

1:00:20

should go to college even if it costs

1:00:22

twice what it did when my parents went

1:00:24

right on of course

1:00:27

we do have to mention that scholarships are

1:00:29

great get a scholarship if you can right

1:00:32

yeah just write some essays mm-hmm yep and

1:00:36

one of my relatives said it this way like no

1:00:39

you have to toil away

1:00:42

like a like a slave in high

1:00:44

school so that you can enjoy your

1:00:46

life later okay it was tough love

1:00:48

but they were right um

1:00:50

so now we

1:00:53

are in a situation where some

1:00:57

economists worry that we

1:01:00

will reach a point where

1:01:02

we have generations of people who

1:01:04

can never afford a home have

1:01:06

are having a very difficult time

1:01:08

raising children let alone

1:01:11

saving for retirement that's a pipe dream at

1:01:13

this point and eventually they

1:01:15

may reach a breaking point and just

1:01:17

like the scene in that REM music

1:01:20

video during the traffic jam everybody hurts

1:01:23

people might just get out of their cars

1:01:25

and walk away in this situation they may

1:01:27

just stop paying their

1:01:29

loans and say screw

1:01:32

the credit rating this system is not

1:01:34

real rage against the machine bulls on

1:01:36

parade eat the rich and the thing

1:01:38

is I know plenty of people who

1:01:40

again like I feel like a jerk

1:01:42

but I pay my bills but sometimes

1:01:44

I let the student loan one kind

1:01:47

of lapse because it they

1:01:49

don't really haven't really given me an incentive to

1:01:51

not do so I never really get charged late

1:01:53

payments it's not that big of a deal if

1:01:55

I forget to pay occasionally and just have to

1:01:58

get a couple of annoying phone calls But I

1:02:00

know people that have gone years

1:02:02

without paying. And if

1:02:04

more people start acting like that, that's when the

1:02:06

bubble burst happens, right, Ben?

1:02:09

Yeah, yeah. It's something

1:02:11

that takes cooperation from all sides.

1:02:14

And some

1:02:16

people have gone so far as to

1:02:20

leave the U.S. entirely and

1:02:22

start, I kid you

1:02:25

not, an entirely different life in

1:02:27

a foreign country. I

1:02:29

would refer to Vice again, they have an

1:02:31

excellent article on this by Alexander Coggin, debt

1:02:34

dodgers, the Americans who moved to Europe and

1:02:36

went AWOL on their student loans. And

1:02:39

you can find various stories of people

1:02:41

who moved to Europe and maybe some

1:02:43

other countries because they felt

1:02:45

like they had no choice. They

1:02:48

had no way to get a decent job that

1:02:50

would allow them to pay back the loan. And

1:02:53

now it's a shame that

1:02:55

we're not going to be able to end

1:02:57

this with a nice bow or ribbon, a

1:02:59

nice pat answer. Well, and it's because it

1:03:02

never ends. And it's because of this thing

1:03:04

called forbearance. That's what it is. I'm

1:03:06

telling you, that's why this doesn't end. This is one of the primary reasons

1:03:09

that this whole thing seems to

1:03:11

be an issue. So

1:03:14

forbearance, we mentioned it as

1:03:16

the meaner cousin of deference. But if you

1:03:19

really think about this, and this is exactly

1:03:21

what my wife did, and it's why I'm

1:03:23

going to be paying student loans for the

1:03:25

rest of my life probably, even

1:03:27

though I didn't take any, it's because

1:03:29

she went into forbearance with her student

1:03:32

loans at one point. And

1:03:34

rather than just the money, the loan being on

1:03:36

freeze and you don't have to pay anything, the

1:03:39

interest continues to accumulate as you're not

1:03:41

making any payments for whatever the allotted

1:03:43

period of time is. It can be

1:03:45

a year, it can be six months.

1:03:48

It just depends. And then that interest,

1:03:51

it's not like it goes away. It

1:03:53

gets added to the principle of the loan. Is that

1:03:55

the same thing as having a loan that's in rehabilitation, like

1:03:57

rehabilitating a loan? That's a term that I've heard thrown. around

1:03:59

as well when you, I don't think it is, but

1:04:02

there is something where when you just straight

1:04:04

up don't pay your loan and then you

1:04:07

start having conversations with the lender to get

1:04:10

back on track, they assess

1:04:12

how much you can actually afford to pay

1:04:14

and it can be quite a little amount

1:04:16

of money, but just getting back on track

1:04:18

to paying that loan, but you're

1:04:21

never going to pay it off. They just want something

1:04:23

from you, you know? Well, yeah. And

1:04:25

that's the thing with forbearance because as you're

1:04:27

adding to that principle, Noel, you were talking

1:04:29

about how hard it is to pay off

1:04:31

your principle because you are paying such a

1:04:33

large percentage of interest with every payment. It's

1:04:37

terrifying that there are so many

1:04:39

humans that are stuck

1:04:42

in this kind of deal. In this cycle.

1:04:44

Because they were either told that forbearance

1:04:46

would be a good idea for them

1:04:48

or it would be a band-aid basically

1:04:50

to fix your current financial situation where

1:04:52

you can't afford to pay your student

1:04:54

loan payment. And

1:04:57

then it wraps you up for the next

1:04:59

30 years. According

1:05:01

to statements by former

1:05:04

loan servicing employees, forbearance

1:05:07

was one of the go-to ways

1:05:09

to process a call. They

1:05:11

were instructed to keep calls under

1:05:13

seven minutes, seven minutes or less if they

1:05:16

could, and the easiest way to do that.

1:05:18

And you start having conversations with the lender

1:05:20

to get back on track. They

1:05:23

assess how much you can actually afford to

1:05:25

pay and it can be quite a little

1:05:28

amount of money by just getting back on

1:05:30

track to paying that loan, but you're

1:05:32

never going to pay it off. They just want

1:05:34

something from you, you know? Yeah. And

1:05:37

that's the thing with forbearance because as you're

1:05:39

adding to that principle, Noel, you're talking about

1:05:41

how hard it is to pay off your

1:05:43

principle because you are paying such a large

1:05:45

percentage of interest with every payment. It's

1:05:48

terrifying that there are so many

1:05:51

humans that are stuck

1:05:53

in this kind of deal. In this cycle.

1:05:56

Because they were either told that forbearance

1:05:58

would be a good idea for them

1:06:00

or it would be a band-aid basically

1:06:02

to fix your current financial situation where

1:06:04

you can't afford to pay your student

1:06:06

loan payment. But then

1:06:08

it wraps you up for the next

1:06:10

30 years. According

1:06:13

to statements by former

1:06:15

loan servicing employees, forbearance

1:06:18

was one of the go-to ways

1:06:20

to process a call. They

1:06:23

were instructed to keep calls under

1:06:25

seven minutes, seven minutes or less if they

1:06:27

could, and the easiest way to do that

1:06:29

was to tell somebody about the

1:06:31

joys of forbearance. It is

1:06:34

a short-term band-aid with long-term

1:06:36

ramifications. Now Navient for their

1:06:38

part and other private loan

1:06:40

servicers are doing pretty well

1:06:42

in this environment. Since

1:06:44

2014, their execs have given

1:06:47

around 75 grand to the

1:06:49

company's political action committee or

1:06:52

PAC, which pumped

1:06:54

money into different campaigns

1:06:57

on the state level to try

1:07:00

to prevent some

1:07:05

states from tackling the

1:07:07

debt crisis. They've

1:07:09

spent more than $10.1 million lobbying Congress. $4.2

1:07:15

million of that spending alone came since 2016. So

1:07:20

that means that Navient's lobbying is

1:07:22

increasing in step with the bubble.

1:07:25

All of the stakes are getting

1:07:27

higher. There's more and more and

1:07:29

more money and people involved

1:07:31

and more and more children's futures. I

1:07:33

mean, that's cliche, but it's true. So

1:07:37

where does this leave us now? Now,

1:07:40

let's be honest. There are a lot

1:07:43

of people who will say, this is

1:07:45

an issue of personal responsibility. You

1:07:47

make your bed, you sleep in it. And there

1:07:49

is something to that, right? But

1:07:54

it is disingenuous

1:07:56

at best to say that

1:07:58

these people are... given

1:08:01

full awareness of what they are

1:08:03

agreeing to do. Yeah. That's

1:08:06

why in any experiment you

1:08:09

hear the phrase informed consent rather

1:08:11

than consent. And this is an

1:08:13

important difference. Maybe it's not a

1:08:15

one-on-one comparison, but it's still a

1:08:17

pretty good one. Student

1:08:19

loans began as a means

1:08:21

of allowing less privileged Americans

1:08:23

to chase previously unobtainable parts

1:08:26

of the American dream. And

1:08:28

now, regardless of how you

1:08:30

feel about individual cases, on

1:08:33

a national level, this has become a

1:08:35

paralyzing generational problem. What happens when no

1:08:37

one can pay the debt? What happens

1:08:40

when no one can buy a house?

1:08:43

Are we going to get to that point? I mean,

1:08:45

that's dystopian, that's alarmist, but it

1:08:47

is distantly in the cards. Luckily,

1:08:50

now, if you're listening and you're

1:08:52

underwater or a student loan or

1:08:55

someone you care about is, you

1:08:57

can find counseling for student loans.

1:08:59

There are numerous counseling services. Go

1:09:01

with a nonprofit one or a

1:09:04

government-sponsored one just because some might

1:09:06

be scams. Some loan

1:09:08

consolidation things are scams. I'm

1:09:10

sure you've met someone who has received one

1:09:13

of those weird notices, or maybe you received

1:09:15

one, where they will, you know, send you

1:09:17

junk mail. Yeah. It's all about

1:09:19

due diligence. Like,

1:09:21

seriously, get online, find out what people

1:09:23

are saying about whatever company it is,

1:09:25

or whatever group or governmental organization before

1:09:28

you do anything. And like you said,

1:09:30

Noel, there are forgiveness programs, right? Two

1:09:34

that may be of great interest

1:09:36

to some of us, the teacher-student

1:09:38

loan forgiveness program and public service

1:09:40

loan forgiveness program. This

1:09:43

means if you work in a qualified job for a

1:09:45

number of years, poof, your

1:09:47

loan has disappeared. But

1:09:50

the problem here is that not everyone can take

1:09:52

these sorts of jobs for one reason or another,

1:09:54

right? Then the

1:09:57

big thing on the table, off and on again

1:09:59

all the time. is student loan

1:10:01

refinancing, but what is that? So let's

1:10:03

put it like this. What

1:10:06

if borrowers could reduce their interest

1:10:08

rates? This is

1:10:10

the question that proponents of refinancing

1:10:13

are asking. And in this

1:10:15

case, technically, they'd be able to pay back

1:10:17

their loans on time, improving their

1:10:19

own credit and financial well-being while supporting

1:10:21

the integrity and sustainability of the federal

1:10:24

loan program. Seems like a win-win. Yet,

1:10:26

refinancing is incredibly expensive. In 2014,

1:10:29

the Congressional Budget Office estimated that

1:10:31

Senator Elizabeth Warren's refinancing plan would

1:10:33

cost just shy of $60 billion

1:10:37

over a three-year period or twice the

1:10:39

annual cost of the federal Pell Grant

1:10:41

Program. So it's expensive. Also,

1:10:44

the way it would work out,

1:10:46

the savings on that refinancing wouldn't

1:10:49

be that much on an individual level. And

1:10:52

it wouldn't... It

1:10:54

would help people who are already capable

1:10:57

of paying loans more than would help

1:10:59

people who are already defaulted or having

1:11:01

difficulty. It's the same as

1:11:03

refinancing your house, right? Yeah, yeah. You get

1:11:06

a better rate. You technically are able to

1:11:08

pay it quicker because you're not getting eaten

1:11:10

alive by high interest and late fees and

1:11:12

things like that. Exactly. And

1:11:14

right now, I believe there is

1:11:17

a federal case going forward.

1:11:19

A judge ordered the

1:11:21

Department of Education to

1:11:24

implement a student loan forgiveness

1:11:26

rule that meets a...

1:11:28

I think it's what you were talking about. It meets

1:11:30

a... You have to meet a couple of different requirements,

1:11:32

and it's in reaction

1:11:34

to those really sketchy

1:11:37

schools that closed down, right?

1:11:39

And left their students high

1:11:41

and dry. So there

1:11:44

is hope. There is always an action

1:11:46

you can take. But

1:11:48

the next time someone

1:11:50

tells you that millennials

1:11:52

or insert generation here

1:11:55

is wasting their money on avocado

1:11:58

toast or whatever... Many

1:12:00

of them. It's so good though, man. It is.

1:12:03

It is. And it's not that expensive.

1:12:05

You make it at home. You can make it

1:12:07

at home. It's just as good. It's just as

1:12:09

good. So the next time someone spews

1:12:12

that kind of stuff, just

1:12:14

remember that a lot of these people

1:12:16

are probably scraping by. And

1:12:19

it's not out of laziness that

1:12:21

people aren't buying houses or having

1:12:23

2.5 kids. It's

1:12:25

a matter of survival for a lot of people.

1:12:28

That's right. Okay.

1:12:35

Do you have a student loan story that you want to

1:12:37

tell us that won't make us all feel

1:12:39

just absolutely terrible? Or maybe one of those that

1:12:42

you just want to share to get it off

1:12:44

your chest? Yeah, do you have something that's like

1:12:46

a PSA for your fellow listeners about student loans?

1:12:49

Do you have an inspiring student loan story with a happy

1:12:51

ending? And do you want to deliver it in your own

1:12:53

voice with the potential of it actually ending up on an

1:12:55

episode of the show? Give us a call. We

1:12:59

are 1-833-STD-WY-T-K as

1:13:02

the chorus of

1:13:04

voices tells your ears

1:13:06

the acronym of our show. Call

1:13:09

that number. And don't forget, there's a three-minute

1:13:11

cutoff. So either try to get

1:13:13

your story in tight three or be prepared

1:13:15

to do a part two. Tight

1:13:17

three is preferable. It really is. Okay.

1:13:20

So if you guys don't want to do that, you

1:13:23

can find us in most places on social media. We

1:13:25

are at Conspiracy Stuff on Instagram. We are at Conspiracy

1:13:27

Stuff Show. Oh yeah. And if

1:13:29

you want to see some of my various

1:13:31

misadventures before I get disappeared, I'm at Ben

1:13:34

Boland. I am at Embryonic Insider. If

1:13:36

you want to see cute kid and kiddie

1:13:38

pics and maybe some modular synth nerdery. Yeah.

1:13:41

And I am at 1-877-224-1111-1111. Just

1:13:45

rolls off the tongue. You can

1:13:48

also find us and more importantly, your fellow listeners

1:13:50

on Facebook, right? We have a group called Here's

1:13:52

Where It Gets Crazy. You either

1:13:54

have to name one of us by name to get

1:13:56

in or just say something really clever that lets us

1:13:58

know that you actually care about the show. And

1:14:01

that's the end of this classic episode. If

1:14:03

you have any thoughts or questions about this

1:14:06

episode, you can get into contact with us

1:14:08

in a number of different ways. One of

1:14:10

the best is to give us a call.

1:14:12

Our number is 1-833-STD-WYTK. If

1:14:18

you don't want to do that, you can

1:14:20

send us a good old fashioned email. We

1:14:22

are conspiracy at iheartradio.com. Stuff

1:14:25

They Don't Want You to Know is a production

1:14:28

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