0:00

From UFOs to psychic powers

0:02

and government conspiracies. History

0:04

is riddled with unexplained events. You

0:07

can turn back now or

0:09

learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

0:12

production of iHeartRadio.

0:24

Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

0:26

my name is Nol.

0:27

They call me Ben. We're joined as always

0:29

with our super producer Alexis codenamed

0:32

Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly,

0:34

you are you. You are here.

0:37

That makes this the stuff they don't

0:39

want you to know. In twenty twenty

0:41

four, you guys, can you believe it?

0:43

Barely weird?

0:44

I'm not stoked.

0:46

Use your date, man. Once we hit twenty

0:48

twenties. Now everything just sounds like it's

0:50

supposed to be megafuturistic and it's just not

0:53

minus weird. Robot attacks,

0:56

did you guys hear about that? Apparently happened a year ago,

0:58

but U Tesla robot on a factory

1:00

floor in Texas attacked

1:03

and mauled an employee, and

1:05

that the story just came out. But that's sort

1:07

of my future.

1:09

But it

1:13

happened a year ago, it just now started getting reported

1:15

on. I thought that it was maybe a

1:17

thing that was already known, and that I just

1:19

was, you know, missing the boat. But I looked it up and

1:22

it does seem that it was a thing that happened.

1:24

That it was a clawed assembly line

1:26

sort of robot arm that basically

1:29

pinned and mauled an employee

1:31

who then fell down a shoot intended

1:33

for scrap metal.

1:35

Very willy wonka, also very

1:37

margin of error kind of thing,

1:40

right.

1:41

But it didn't do it because it wanted

1:43

to, Right, That's the.

1:45

Yeah, I was considering doing that as as today's

1:48

strange deduce from me. But I feel

1:50

like it's such a buzzy fake out

1:52

kind of thing where it's like robots attacking.

1:54

No, that is not that there was an emergency stop

1:57

thing. It must have. It was unclear from the

1:59

article exactly what caused it to target this

2:01

individual, but I don't think it was out of

2:03

malice.

2:04

The human rates to what do we

2:06

attribute, right, like

2:09

like what is the motivation of

2:11

a plant, of an algorithm and

2:13

so on? Or the Supreme Court.

2:15

We're going to get to that. We're

2:18

going to talk about some big picture

2:20

stuff. We're going to touch on an epidemic

2:23

amid the US deer population.

2:25

We're going to talk about menthol cigarettes,

2:29

and we're going to talk

2:31

about the US Supreme Court because

2:34

America, we need to have a conversation

2:38

to America.

2:39

You're drunk, go home or

2:41

maybe not, Ben you you brought I think

2:43

for a little kind of yea

2:46

to start with for the new year.

2:48

Yeah, let's talk about good news. So we

2:51

wanted to start the year off with some

2:54

cool ideas. We got

2:56

one in here. I don't know if it's good news,

2:58

but did you guys hear that humans

3:00

can make jet fuel from hoop?

3:03

Now? You know what? That makes sense with

3:05

all the burn pit information we've been

3:07

getting lately, like burning

3:10

the poops seem to have just as many bad effects as

3:12

burning the jet fuel.

3:13

And of course, since I'm a child, my mind immediately

3:16

condures a cartoon image of someone with fire

3:18

shooting out of their butt. That's

3:20

just a me.

3:21

Thing, No, that's I think

3:23

that's an everybody thing. That'd be pretty

3:26

cool if you could, if you could fart

3:28

well enough.

3:29

To be a jet runing that

3:32

the very first South Park episode where Cartman's

3:34

like, there'sh.

3:39

There are some extinct animals

3:42

that have been rediscovered, right,

3:44

like Mark Twain said, the uh the

3:47

reports of their deaths have been greatly

3:49

exaggerated, So shout out to the

3:51

shimmering golden mole.

3:53

Which the shimmering gold that's that like the opposite

3:56

of the naked It sounds shimmering

3:58

golden, right, I want to catch

4:00

them all. I was really having my fingers

4:03

crossed for the Dodo though, No, Dodo.

4:05

We got to call Lucky. We have a covenant.

4:08

Toto's coming back for real, though, I remember

4:10

seeing, Yeah, they're trying to bring Dodo back.

4:12

Oh but that's a science y thing. This is okay,

4:15

it's like an experiment.

4:16

Guys. I just had a vision for our future.

4:18

Oh my god, this talk about positivity. We've

4:20

been looking for a way to get a universal

4:23

basic income. If everybody

4:25

is just pooping on the regular and we all

4:28

do it, what if we're all just making

4:30

jet fuel and the government pays

4:32

us poop.

4:33

Stop, It'll be a matrix

4:35

situation. We'll I'll just have tubes hooked up to

4:37

our butts.

4:38

And Eisenhower was

4:40

right, Military industrial poop complex.

4:44

Matt stop it with these pithy suggestions

4:47

that are just.

4:49

It's ancient technology. Night soil

4:51

is a real thing. It's the first fertilizer,

4:54

so why can't it be the

4:57

new biofuel, serious

4:59

biofuel.

5:00

We are the batteries, guys. We are the batteries

5:02

fueling the military industrial complex

5:04

from our butts.

5:05

You just change up the sewer system like minorly

5:08

and add in and intake. Oh my god,

5:10

we can do this.

5:11

Everybody, write your congress person, folks.

5:13

Matt said it here first.

5:14

Yeah, yeah, send a physical letters

5:17

so they'll pay attention. So

5:20

another piece of good news. Minimum

5:23

wage is going to increase

5:25

in twenty two states

5:27

across the US on January

5:30

first. Shout out to MPR.

5:33

Shout out to everybody listening now,

5:36

who is one of the nine

5:38

point nine million workers

5:41

who will see an increase.

5:42

I'm assuming this is just as a result of a

5:45

benevolent state sort of situation, right

5:47

Ben, someone was just like they deserve it, give

5:49

it to them, they worked for it.

5:51

I don't know a lot of our fellow

5:53

conspiracy realist will point

5:56

out with validity that inflation

6:00

has accelerated.

6:01

So is this is

6:04

this one of those tools right, like

6:07

the FED adjusting you know, rates

6:09

and such. I'm really obviously a math scientist.

6:12

Well, this is this is really good news, you guys.

6:14

I'm just looking at that and per article you shared,

6:16

Ben, and it looks like some

6:19

states are going to see almost seven dollars

6:21

additionally added to the minimum wage

6:24

number.

6:24

That's amazing significant.

6:26

Yeah, yeah, that's life changing,

6:28

hopefully for the better. We

6:31

also are one other piece of

6:33

good news. Scientists

6:36

have successfully destroyed cancer

6:39

cells using vibrating

6:42

molecules, which I don't pretend

6:44

to understand, but shout out to the journalist

6:47

David Neild if that's real.

6:49

We've received a lot of messages and we've

6:51

seen stories over the years of using

6:54

vibrations to cure people

6:56

of things, right, like different vibes

6:59

but different different types of literal

7:01

vibration just being shot through parts of

7:03

the human If this is true,

7:06

I want to learn more about that. So we need to do a deeper

7:08

dive into that.

7:09

And this isn't the first story of the year,

7:11

even that's been about advances

7:13

and eradicating cancer, like we

7:16

are in a future. You know, I made the joke

7:18

about twenty twenty four seeming so futuristic,

7:20

but there are things that are happening despite

7:22

my bad jokes. A cure for cancer

7:25

is the kind of thing that always had this ring

7:27

of like unattainability, and now

7:30

it does feel like we're inching towards something

7:32

resembling that. Right.

7:34

Yeah, it turns out if you shake

7:36

up these aminocyanine

7:39

molecules with something

7:41

that's not quite infrared light,

7:43

they will vibrate in sync

7:46

the same way people would like dance

7:48

at a wedding across the world.

7:51

They'll do it like a weird line dance, and

7:55

this will break out the membranes

7:57

of cancer cells. This

8:00

is pretty cool news. We

8:02

are indeed talking about good

8:04

vibrations. Shout out to that

8:07

band, the Beach Boys. I really think they're

8:09

going places.

8:10

Yeah, I heard of them, dude,

8:12

Amino Cionine. Never heard

8:15

of this.

8:15

This is incredible, It is incredible,

8:18

right, I agree with you, guys. Like the strange

8:20

thing about this is that so

8:23

often on Strange News we

8:25

bring you stories

8:28

that don't quite get

8:30

into the headlines or don't

8:32

quite get the analysis

8:34

they deserve, and a

8:37

lot of times we don't make

8:39

space to talk about the good stuff. And

8:42

there is good stuff happening,

8:44

right, There are uplifting things

8:47

occurring in the world, and we

8:49

hope that we can

8:51

launch our own project twenty

8:53

twenty five in a good

8:56

way. Right, And speaking

8:58

of segues, the

9:00

amazing invention here

9:02

in the US. But speaking of conversational

9:05

segues, there is

9:08

a group of people that will

9:10

be very important to you next year.

9:12

Odds are you have not spoken

9:15

with these folks directly. Odds

9:17

are you don't know

9:19

all their names, but if

9:21

you live in the United States, they

9:24

are the rock stars

9:27

of law and order.

9:29

Yeah, I have a really cool acronym. It's fun to

9:31

say and sounds a lot like scrotum.

9:33

Yeah. Well, they're they're they're

9:36

the seemingly invincible characters

9:39

that they live on planet Earth. Right, they

9:42

they get in their position, there's nothing you could

9:44

do too bad. They're there. That's

9:46

it. I don't know, in a weird way,

9:48

I do see them as like, I don't know, the way

9:51

you're describing them and makes me see them as comic

9:53

book characters.

9:54

I think that's accurate, Matt. I

9:56

mean, like, we're we're talking about

9:58

a democracy, a democracy

10:01

that is also a republic

10:03

in some ways, and a lot of people get

10:06

mad about the semantics

10:08

of that. But in a very

10:10

real process, the

10:13

laws of the United States are

10:16

written by Congress, right,

10:18

they're co signed or derided

10:21

by the President. But

10:23

it's a Lord of the Rings situation. There

10:25

are nine people right

10:28

now who are basically ring

10:30

raiths. You do not elect them

10:32

as a US citizen. They

10:35

do not really get fired.

10:38

They have the job for the entirety

10:41

of their lives. They are called

10:43

to your point Noel Scotus, Supreme

10:46

Court of the United States, and

10:50

oh boy, we need to talk

10:52

about them. We need to talk

10:54

about them. This is not quite strange

10:57

news for twenty twenty

10:59

three. This is strange

11:01

news for twenty twenty four and twenty

11:04

twenty five.

11:05

And I guess the update ish maybe

11:07

that puts it sort of in the news and for end of

11:09

twenty twenty three. Is this Code of Ethics

11:11

thing which seems like it should have

11:13

already been in place, but is

11:16

seemingly relatively toothless

11:18

and kind of just more symbolic than anything,

11:20

right.

11:21

Yeah, yeah, So we've talked

11:23

about it in the past. There's

11:25

a lot of ongoing controversy

11:28

around things like insider trading

11:31

laws for members of Congress.

11:34

Congress on both sides

11:37

of the political aisle, made

11:39

a lot of money during the pandemic

11:41

by short selling things like toilet

11:45

paper, sanitizer, vaccination

11:48

deployment.

11:49

Game stop, game

11:51

stop.

11:51

Yeah, yeah, shout

11:53

out to our stock friends right. The

11:56

issue, however, rarely

11:59

gets to the level of the

12:01

Supreme Court, the idea of corruption,

12:04

because this court is

12:06

seen in American history

12:09

as largely infallible.

12:12

It is seen as the consciousness of

12:14

the American public despite the

12:16

fact that these folks are again

12:18

unelected, often above

12:21

reproach and don't

12:23

hold themselves to the same

12:26

standards that you would be held

12:28

to. Congratulations, Hey, guess

12:30

what if you bought a mortgage, you

12:33

have to deal with stuff. But if

12:35

you're in, if you're the

12:37

Supremes, you can you

12:39

can get some workarounds because.

12:42

You have synchronized dance moves.

12:44

They don't. I mean,

12:47

I don't know's there's no video

12:49

allowed in the court, so

12:52

maybe they got a caol.

12:53

They have outfits like.

12:56

So let's go to the

12:59

point you raised. The US

13:01

Supreme Court has adopted

13:03

its first ever ethics

13:06

code. To be clear, Congress

13:08

does have an ethics code and

13:10

has for some time. I'd

13:15

gallon paper.

13:16

Sure, look what it took for what's his face to

13:18

get ejected first first ever?

13:20

Remember I believe it was he Congress or

13:22

was he representative? I'm talking about of course

13:24

Santas. So yeah, Santos,

13:27

I mean, that guy was just doing crimes

13:29

left, right and center. And even that was a

13:31

remarkable feat that he was ejected. I

13:34

scoff because clearly their

13:37

code of ethics is pretty toothless too. I'm sorry

13:39

inter out. I'm just blown away by that.

13:41

Well, George Santos was

13:44

ejected. I think he was

13:46

his House of Representatives, so he's not

13:48

his senator. He's the

13:51

sixth member of the House of

13:53

Reps in all of American history

13:55

who was ejected. It was it was a

13:57

thing where this divided country

14:00

came together and said, ah, this

14:02

guy. But this

14:06

doesn't often happen with members

14:08

of the Supreme Court. And when

14:11

the Supreme Court decided

14:14

that they would do

14:16

some sort of ethics standard

14:19

thing, they raised a lot of questions,

14:21

and they raised a lot of criticism.

14:24

They issued the following statement,

14:27

and this comes to us from a great

14:29

MPR article by Annie

14:31

Gersh and Nina Totenberg. Here's

14:34

the quote. The absence of a

14:36

code has led in recent years

14:39

to the misunderstanding that the

14:41

justices of this Court, unlike

14:43

all other jurists in this country,

14:46

regard themselves as unrestricted

14:48

by any ethics rule. To

14:50

dispel this misunderstanding, we

14:53

are issuing this code, which largely

14:55

represents a codification of principles

14:58

that we have long regarded as

15:00

governing our conduct. This

15:02

happens in step with and

15:05

folks, we hate to say it, this

15:07

happens in step with growing controversy

15:10

over a member of

15:12

the Court who is from our

15:15

state of Georgia, as Thomas

15:17

No I know

15:20

not critical hit.

15:24

Twenty was wrote, Yeah,

15:27

that gosh, man, just

15:29

reading about this stuff. Well, I've got an idea.

15:31

I'm gonna throw it out at the end, so

15:33

let you yeah, let's keep going. I've got like a concept.

15:37

I think you guys are going to be into.

15:38

You got a pitch yep?

15:40

Nice?

15:41

All right, So we know

15:43

this occurs. Nothing happens

15:45

in a vacuum, right, So the US

15:48

public has a very

15:51

low opinion of the

15:53

Supreme Court right now as

15:56

of twenty twenty three, going into twenty

15:58

twenty four, more and more where people

16:00

are saying, hey, why don't

16:03

these guys have consequences?

16:06

Right, Like, why don't these folks

16:08

have the same sort

16:10

of experiences

16:13

that we have to live under. For

16:15

instance, you know there's the Row

16:18

versus Wade overturning. There's

16:21

a lot of scuttle butt occurring.

16:23

Now, scuttle butt is a word I learned

16:26

from the late Scalia.

16:29

You guys remember Scalia.

16:30

Yeah, he's a Scotus.

16:31

But oh

16:34

my gosh, can we do a sound Q on that?

16:36

Those excellent. So

16:39

the the issue here

16:42

is that for a democracy

16:44

to exist, all members

16:47

of the public servitude,

16:50

industry or genre should

16:53

be following the letters of the law

16:56

that they write. And increasingly the

16:58

American public regards wardless of

17:00

demographic, ideology

17:02

or age. The American public

17:05

is increasingly cynical regarding

17:08

these institutions. We

17:10

have maybe heard stories

17:12

about Clarence Thomas,

17:15

in particular, taking big,

17:17

big, weird vacations

17:19

with billionaire donors. You

17:22

guys remember that.

17:23

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like and

17:25

you know, getting all sorts of elaborate

17:28

meals and gifts and just

17:30

I mean, it's it's nearly impossible

17:32

to classify that stuff as anything

17:35

but bribes. Yeah.

17:37

Well, when the individual,

17:40

the individual that is giving these

17:42

gifts, right, or these trips or these vacations,

17:45

whatever you want to call them, when that individual

17:47

is a huge money player in

17:49

politics, it's a big deal

17:52

because those justices have to

17:54

come together and decide in

17:56

the end what the law means.

17:58

Right, yeah, in a closed door session,

18:01

in a vacuum, basically, you

18:03

know what I mean. It's unilateral to

18:05

your pointment, the power that these

18:07

raiths wield, so to even

18:09

have the perception of that kind of compromise

18:13

is outrageous.

18:15

But it's not as though Clarence Thomas was

18:17

the only justice that was doing this kind of stuff,

18:19

right. Other people have

18:22

been shown to have these meetings,

18:25

trips in you know, vacations

18:27

as you put it in I think that's probably the best word

18:29

for it. But just hanging out with donors

18:32

who run the political parties.

18:34

They're supposed to be out of their reach, they're supposed

18:36

to beyond reproach. It's horses.

18:39

They're clearly none of those things.

18:41

It's tough. It's tough also because

18:44

we know from previous

18:46

I almost said exercises keeping it.

18:49

We know from previous examples

18:51

that one of the first

18:54

things you do when you overthrow a democracy

18:57

is control the courts.

18:59

Right. That's why that's

19:01

why.

19:03

Courts turn into rubber stamps

19:06

under dictators of any stripe.

19:08

That's why justices

19:10

get harassed, exiled, or

19:12

even murdered. And one of the

19:15

big big controversies a

19:17

few years back was the

19:20

installation of Supreme

19:22

Court justices and the installation

19:25

of appellate justices and

19:27

federal level federal

19:30

level judges. And this is

19:32

going to be important in

19:35

the near future, sooner than perhaps

19:37

any of us in the US would like to

19:39

imagine, because we're

19:42

in a situation where the folks who

19:44

are hired by a guy have

19:46

to rule for or

19:48

against that guy.

19:50

Even the confirmation process of

19:53

justices seems largely symbolic.

19:57

You know, it's basically, if the president picks

19:59

the person, they're gonna get confirmed,

20:01

no matter how controversial they are. I

20:03

don't know that I've ever seen in my lifetime one

20:05

that was rejected short of maybe,

20:07

like you know, proven allegations

20:10

of like sexual misconduct on

20:13

the front end. Can you think of one?

20:15

I can't. I don't know.

20:16

I thought that just happened pretty much.

20:18

Was there one? There was that one guy. No,

20:21

No, that one guy got confirmed and.

20:23

He got confirmed, but previously

20:25

to him, there were several other or

20:27

no after him, there were several okay,

20:30

people that got put for.

20:31

Still, it's just it's yeah,

20:34

well it seems very symbolic largely,

20:37

but anyway, I just the process is

20:39

really creepy. I don't like it.

20:41

I don't like it. It's a strange what

20:44

it's going to ask you really quickly, because when

20:46

when you brought us up in our group textdress, I

20:48

thought you were also maybe referring to the situation

20:51

with uh state supreme courts

20:53

and like keeping a candidate

20:55

off the ballot. I don't want to pivot too much,

20:58

but I'd love to talk more about that in

21:00

the coming weeks and

21:02

months as we see how that process

21:04

is achieved, what allows

21:07

it to succeed and what causes it to fail,

21:09

and maybe state supreme courts

21:11

is also an interesting thing to roll into

21:14

a larger episode about the Supreme

21:16

Court.

21:16

Ah, yes, you're talking about Colorado.

21:18

Eh, that's right.

21:19

Yeah, that's a fantastic point,

21:22

and it's something that can maybe

21:25

put some folks into a snoozefest.

21:27

Right, who wants to talk about who

21:30

wants to talk about the weird state

21:33

of courts in the

21:35

United States? Well, people

21:37

who go to prison, first off, are

21:40

friends at Lava for Good and

21:42

people who want to pull shenanigans.

21:46

Again, we're being a political with this.

21:48

We're pointing out a structural

21:50

conspiracy. There is some

21:53

stuff they don't want you to know when

21:55

it comes to the idea of packing courts.

21:58

Yeah, I think the biggest deal with this whole

22:00

ethics thing, and like, here's a solution,

22:02

right, we will offer you an internal solution.

22:05

We will sign a piece of paper that says

22:07

we won't do anything bad. But there's

22:09

no mechanism. There's no lever that gets

22:11

pulled or a wire that gets tripped if

22:13

they do something that is, you know,

22:16

contrary to that agreement that they signed. So

22:19

really it's toothless, doesn't mean anything, I

22:21

think guys, Oh, here's the pitch. If

22:23

you imagine all the surveillance that we as citizens

22:26

are under, well, you know, some of it

22:28

overt some of it just that's happening

22:30

through third parties and applications we

22:32

sign up for and sign terms of agreements

22:34

with. If you imagine just how

22:36

much data is collected on us individually.

22:40

What if there was a special version of

22:42

that kind of thing that was for publicly

22:45

serving officials, right, someone who gets

22:47

elected or someone who gets appointed,

22:50

like to the Supreme Court, where they are monitored

22:53

just a little more fully like.

22:54

A rate my professor type situation.

22:57

No, it's not external, right, So

22:59

the information is internally to

23:01

whatever this is, this you know, oversight

23:04

committee, this thing that just

23:06

shows every meeting like every

23:08

major person that in agenda

23:10

them there things like that where it's

23:12

just.

23:12

Calendar is what I mean by agenda? Like, you know, who

23:15

are they taking meetings with that should be

23:17

public? Is it not? To some degree it

23:19

doesn't exist? Okay?

23:21

The degree of surveillance also,

23:24

I would pause, it does exist. It's

23:26

not available to the public. But

23:30

the justices and the alphabet

23:32

are I can only imagine very

23:34

aware.

23:35

They might know.

23:36

You know what they might know Supreme Court bowel

23:38

movement schedules.

23:39

Well they probably do. I mean, I'm sure they

23:41

know mine, so like, why wouldn't they know theirs?

23:43

Well, you got to get off that app, Matt. You

23:45

gotta stop logging in.

23:47

I don't even bring my phone around me when I poop anymore,

23:49

and they still see me doing it.

23:51

No, you gotta make your jet fuel some

23:53

somehow, somehow, there we go. Making

23:55

jet fuel should becoming new euphemism for pooping.

23:57

By the way, I love it. Matt's

23:59

a loop. What are you proposing

24:01

here?

24:02

I feel like, if you are going to take the

24:04

great responsibility of being one

24:06

of those sitting justices. There

24:08

should be some kind of.

24:11

Scrutiny, high

24:13

level scrutiny.

24:14

Like when you choose to do that, you were going to make quite

24:16

a bit of money. You're not going to be, you know, a billionaire,

24:18

but you're gonna make quite a bit of money in that position,

24:21

and you're going to wield a ton of power.

24:24

I think there's got to be some kind

24:26

of mechanism set up there that make sure

24:28

you are actually doing what that

24:30

position is supposed to do, rather

24:33

than serving yourself or your family

24:35

or whatever other thing it is that you hold

24:38

up higher than the public good.

24:40

But if there's not, which there's not, you

24:42

have to ask yourself, is this by design?

24:45

Is this the nature of this system?

24:48

You know there? I think it is to

24:50

a large degree. I don't think. I think people

24:52

want to be able to have that opportunity

24:55

to work their way to that level of power.

24:57

That's the dream. Then you can, you

24:59

know, get whatever you want for

25:01

your family and your cronies and your connections

25:03

for life. That's the reason

25:06

a lot of people get into politics. I think, you

25:08

know, and I don't think it should be that.

25:10

I don't think it should be that at all.

25:12

Shout out to the Taft family.

25:17

One of the biggest US presidents in

25:19

many ways on many levels, also served

25:22

in the Supreme Court. So

25:25

do you guys think it's worth it to do an episode

25:27

about the Supreme Court?

25:29

Yeah, and maybe we throw in a little bit of stuff about

25:31

some of the state stuff as well. I think it's

25:33

great, Ben, and I think this is a great primer and

25:36

really valuable information to start

25:38

us off strong. Give our paranoia a

25:40

kick, a shot in the arm.

25:42

There we go. So shout out

25:44

to our fellow conspiracy realist folks.

25:46

We would love to hear your opinions

25:49

on the Supreme Court of the United

25:51

States, especially if

25:53

you have spent time in countries

25:56

other than the US. Let

25:58

us know conspiracy Diehart Radio dot

26:00

com what eight three three s T d W

26:03

y t K. We're going to pause

26:05

for a word from our sponsors,

26:08

and then we are going to return

26:10

with a story from the

26:13

natural world. Not super pigs,

26:15

but another you know, another

26:18

situation.

26:25

Wake up, grab a human thrown down

26:27

the way chute. Sorry sorry, robot

26:31

chops.

26:33

Say, actually that's

26:35

kind of weird. I

26:38

am serious.

26:39

It was referenced in some podcast I was

26:41

listening to over the holiday break. So that's sorry

26:44

about that.

26:46

A voice that got really

26:49

cool, great operatic pipes on that guy.

26:52

Dude, seriously, system of a down if you

26:54

didn't catch a reference. Okay, so we were back,

26:56

and guys, let's start

26:58

out by talking about mad cow disease.

27:01

We lived through that whole thing when we

27:04

were slightly younger. What was

27:06

that? What causes mad cow disease? Why

27:08

is it dangerous?

27:09

Prions?

27:10

Right?

27:10

Yes, I always say prions. I think it might

27:12

be wrong, but p

27:14

R I O N s. I'm gonna say

27:16

prions because that's just the way my brain works

27:18

around that thing.

27:19

But not to be confused with prawns,

27:21

which are delightful shrimp esque

27:23

crustaceans.

27:24

Yeah, no, none, spongefore sponge

27:28

offm in cephalopathy.

27:30

That's wow. That's it, Ben, Yes,

27:33

that is the thing that we all heard

27:35

about. It was in popular media all

27:37

over the place. It was in the news. Thousands

27:40

and thousands of cows lost their lives

27:42

because they were potentially exposed

27:45

to the prions that caused this thing.

27:48

It was a horrible, big deal not

27:50

that long ago here in the United States,

27:52

in the United Kingdom, and several other places

27:54

in the world. And the reason why it was so dangerous.

27:57

It's because these weird malformedes

28:00

called prions infect

28:02

an animal and then slowly

28:05

change that animal and spread

28:07

throughout that animal till it gets to their brain. And

28:10

there is no medicine

28:12

you can give an animal infected with these things

28:14

these prions, no way to cure

28:17

this thing. And there's also well, let's

28:19

just say it's extremely difficult

28:21

to eradicate these prions

28:24

once they're out in the environment, and

28:27

they can exit an infected animal in

28:29

all kinds of ways, like through their saliva,

28:31

through their waste, through their dead,

28:33

decaying body. It's

28:36

really really dangerous stuff, and it can

28:38

stay in the soil, kind of like the way those potential

28:40

fungal infections can occur, and they just hang out

28:42

in the soil for long periods of time. Really

28:45

scary.

28:46

Yeah, you can't eat the flesh, or

28:48

you shouldn't eat the flesh as well.

28:51

You're absolutely right on multiple accounts.

28:54

Prions, pons,

28:57

prions is the way ions. You're

28:59

right. I think it's prions.

29:01

Well that's a whole thing. Now

29:03

we're going to introduce to you something that you may

29:05

not have heard of, called chronic

29:08

wasting disease or CWD.

29:12

Is that like a Dungeons and dragons.

29:14

Definitely, Oh, definitely, yes,

29:18

it's a spell that is cast. No. No, this

29:20

is another disease caused

29:22

by similar prions, but in

29:24

a different class of animals, different

29:26

species. So matt cow,

29:28

it's cows, right, bovines in CWD.

29:32

It is in animals like deer,

29:35

elk, moose, caribou and rein

29:37

deer and this thing it

29:40

acts very much in the same way. And it's

29:42

also called the zombie

29:44

deer disease.

29:46

Ohikes.

29:47

Now there's a reason for that because

29:50

when an animal is infected with this

29:52

stuff, and it can take, by the way,

29:54

up to a year to potentially two three

29:57

years to actually see the effects of

29:59

an infection in an animal.

30:01

Uh.

30:01

The animals become drooling,

30:04

lethargic, emaciated like

30:06

they're not eating enough, stumbling around

30:09

and they have this uh The

30:11

Guardian. Todd Wilkinson, writing in

30:13

The Guardian on December twenty second, he

30:16

describes it as a telltale

30:19

blank stare like just

30:21

like like a zombie.

30:23

And then they crave brains.

30:25

No doubt that thousand league stare

30:27

the double zeros. Stephen

30:30

King talks about eyes when looking at

30:32

a serial killer. Oh yeah,

30:34

dead eyes like Kirsten Dunst in

30:36

literally every Man, My

30:39

God, I said it, It's true. Watch even

30:43

and bring it on, dude, watch the eyes.

30:46

Actually in Fargo season two,

30:49

she's a classic blank

30:52

character choice.

30:53

Guys, it's a character choice.

30:54

I'm with you, Matt, I'm with you. I'm with you.

30:56

Come on, all right?

30:57

So yes, yes, walk down the street

31:00

that one. But this, you know,

31:02

Matt, this story reminds me a

31:04

little bit of the dolphin

31:07

atavism that we discussed earlier.

31:10

It reminds me a little bit of the hybrid

31:13

super pig. Definitely reminds me of

31:15

our Cortyceps episodes. This

31:18

zombie deer disease, right,

31:20

how is it spreading? Is it zoonotic?

31:23

What do you mean zoonotic?

31:24

Can it go to humans?

31:26

Okay? So before with mad

31:28

cow disease, the big fear was

31:31

that this disease would somehow jump

31:33

to humans, right as we've seen other

31:35

diseases like

31:37

a covid you know, a bird disease

31:40

jumping to humans. They were nervous

31:42

that mad cow disease. If you ate the meat, you

31:44

might get it as a human. There was

31:47

a potential danger for that. But there wasn't a

31:49

lot of danger for that. It was mostly we

31:51

don't want to spread any of this around,

31:53

right.

31:54

Things like mad cow disease mainly come from

31:56

press coverage or was that like

31:58

some sort of official designation.

32:01

Well, it was a real disease caused by that's.

32:04

Not the official name for the disease. There's

32:06

like a scientific name for a mad

32:08

cow is more of a shorthand sort of like serial

32:11

killer names.

32:13

Bovine sponge of form.

32:15

I'm just asking like, does something like calling

32:17

it mad cow come from scientific

32:20

community or is that more just like some

32:22

you know, reporter coins

32:25

it.

32:25

I'm just I don't know. I assume

32:27

it's from probably farmers who began

32:30

seeing the disease and began calling

32:32

it that cow got mad well before

32:34

they knew what it was, because he caused some

32:37

of the same stuff in the cows. But

32:39

ben right now, there's a lot of fear

32:42

about this chronic wasting disease

32:44

spreading, right because these are deer

32:47

and there are a lot of hunters out there who kill

32:49

a lot of deer, and more and

32:51

more hunters are seeing animals

32:53

with this disease, and they're

32:55

trying to harvest the meat and it's

32:58

you know, it's kind of the questionable. Can I

33:00

actually eat this meat? Is it gonna affect

33:02

me the way these animals were affected. There

33:05

are a lot of questions about that. Still. Right

33:07

now, there are no confirmed cases of chronic

33:09

wasting disease transferring to humans,

33:12

either by the saliva of a deer,

33:14

the waste of a deer, or eating

33:16

the meat of a killed deer. But

33:18

it is a potential thing that

33:20

could occur. Right there could be some kind

33:23

of mutation in those prions that allows

33:25

it to jump to humans somehow

33:27

at some point, and likely it will happen at

33:29

some point in the future. It hasn't happened

33:32

yet. It is likely that there's

33:34

going to be a mutation of some sort that it'll just jump

33:36

to whatever. Right, given

33:39

enough time, yeah, give enough time, it's

33:41

probably gonna happen, as we've seen in the past.

33:43

What about other animals that eat deer.

33:45

Well, yeah, that's a fear, right anything

33:48

living out in let's say, the northwest

33:51

of the United States, there are creatures

33:53

that consume deer. There is a

33:55

worry about that. Cougars, coyotes,

33:58

wolves, bears, all kinds of stuff are

34:00

eating deer all the time, there's a potential

34:02

for that, but again it's not known yet,

34:05

at least from the writing I've seen. The

34:07

reason why we're talking about it today is because

34:10

this chronic wasting disease has been observed

34:12

for a long time, since two

34:14

thousand and five, I

34:17

think is really the start of major

34:20

United States wide monitoring for

34:22

this disease in deer populations,

34:25

but it is. I'm just going to name off some states

34:28

right now that I saw over the past

34:30

basically two months of news stories.

34:33

Kentucky, Idaho, Texas,

34:36

Mississippi, Alabama, and

34:38

Wyoming have all reported

34:41

new cases of chronic wasting disease

34:43

animals in various parts of those states.

34:45

Interesting because they're not contiguous,

34:48

so no, we could assume

34:50

maybe like maybe there are

34:52

states, you

34:54

know, adjacent to the reporting states

34:56

that just haven't found a case.

34:59

It's very likely because the only

35:01

way currently that the CDC,

35:03

which is one of the organizations monitoring this stuff,

35:06

local fish and Game, wildlife organization,

35:08

parks organizations, they're all looking

35:10

at this stuff, and they're all kind of independently

35:13

reporting. When a hunter finds

35:16

a potentially infected animal and sends

35:18

in a sample to be tested, that's the

35:20

only way they know when there are

35:22

animals with chronic wasting disease. Unless

35:25

an individual hunter who was out there and scoped

35:27

an animal that was clearly suffering

35:29

from this thing and then reports it, they

35:31

don't know. And remember, this

35:34

disease can take years to

35:36

manifest, so you could actually see it. So

35:38

you may shoot a buck as a hunter, let's

35:41

say somewhere in Georgia, and you

35:43

think that animal's fine, you take it, You

35:46

take it to a tax dermis or whatever, you clean

35:48

it, you get all the meat, and

35:50

then you're eating that meat over the course of a year,

35:52

right, all that venison. It may be

35:55

infected with these prions.

35:57

You just don't know it unless

35:59

you send us sample to a participating

36:01

taxidermist or another you know group

36:03

within your state or county that

36:06

may send it to the CDC.

36:08

Are places where maybe hunting is

36:10

more prevalent and consuming

36:12

this type of game meet more common.

36:14

Are they are they more at risk for this kind of thing?

36:17

Because actually I was talking with my partner and people

36:19

over Christmas about eating venison, and

36:21

it really is. It seems to be something that some people

36:24

just have never done in their entire

36:26

lives.

36:27

I think it's more discovered

36:30

in places that have large, like let's say,

36:32

deer or elk populations that are actively

36:34

hunted only because you're you

36:36

have more human beings interacting with

36:39

that large population and seeing

36:42

the effects. Right, there are way more

36:44

cases being seen actively

36:47

in hunting season, which gosh, it's

36:49

been going I guess for a bit now, and it lasts

36:51

until usually like January or February,

36:53

depending on which state you're in. The reason why

36:55

we're talking about today though, is because Yellowstone

36:58

National Park in the northwest corner

37:00

of Wyoming had their first

37:02

ever known case,

37:05

let's say, of chronic wasting disease

37:07

in a deer, which

37:10

means the CDC and other organizations

37:12

are calling for every single

37:14

hunter that's going out there every

37:16

time you bag a deer. It's the term

37:19

they use every time you kill

37:21

a deer, whether it's a dough or a buck, no

37:24

matter where it is, take a sample

37:26

and send it in to check

37:28

to see if that deer was infected, and

37:31

that way there can be a large enough sample size

37:33

that we can really get an understanding of

37:35

where these I think they're called chronic

37:38

wasting zones that are they're

37:41

being called that by the CDC and other organizations

37:43

to say, hey, chronic wasting disease

37:46

exists here in this corner of this county,

37:48

or is found here in this specific part

37:50

of Yellowstone National Park. Because

37:52

as I said, those primes can last for like

37:55

a year in the soil on a

37:57

rock where a deer just got a

37:59

little bit of spittle as it's walking around

38:01

emaciated and with its mouth hanging open,

38:03

another deer can come by and mess

38:06

with that, get it on their hoof, even there's

38:08

all there. It's crazy how infectious

38:10

this is and how difficult

38:12

it is to eradicate it. I want

38:14

to read this tiny section from that same Guardian

38:17

article quote, once

38:19

this environment is infected, any environment

38:21

where this stuff is, the pathogen

38:23

is extremely hard to eradicate. It can

38:26

persist for years in dirt or on

38:28

surfaces, and scientists report it

38:30

is resistant to disinfectants,

38:32

formaldehyde, radiation and incineration

38:35

at six hundred degrees celsius or

38:37

one hundred degrees fahrenheit.

38:40

Holy smooks.

38:41

So like, once it's there, it's there,

38:44

right, So they have to designate

38:46

areas chronic wasting disease zones

38:48

and then monitor all populations of

38:50

all potentially infected animals that move

38:53

through that in part of their regular migration.

38:55

Twenty twenty four Zombie Dear

38:58

and super pigs. We're doing like

39:00

a universe thing, Matt.

39:02

One question I think a lot

39:05

of people will have in the audience tonight,

39:08

how would you, the

39:10

average person, identify

39:13

a deer that had this infection? Would

39:16

you? Would it be strange behavior?

39:19

Is it?

39:19

Like generally, any hunter would

39:21

probably be able to tell because you get

39:24

you when you're hunting, you can understand,

39:26

You begin to understand the normal

39:28

activities of especially let's

39:30

say a white tailed deer. You understand kind

39:32

of how they move. Do you understand why

39:34

they make movements and what they alert

39:37

to and all those things. A deer

39:39

that's infected by this, that is showing symptoms

39:42

is going to act very abnormally and different

39:44

to that kind of going to be again,

39:47

imagine a zombie deer. If you see

39:49

one, a deer that looks like a zombie kind

39:51

of that's probably that's what's going

39:53

on.

39:54

Red flag for sure.

39:55

But because of that time it takes, you

39:57

never know if a normal looking

39:59

deer is actually infected by this, it

40:01

just hasn't shown any symptoms yet.

40:03

Now I'm sorry if I missed it, and I realized earlier

40:06

I may have asked sort of a silly question about places

40:08

where hunting and consumption of

40:10

venison is more common. If those are places

40:13

more to be concerned about. Does this have

40:15

any effect on humans if they consume

40:17

the meat?

40:18

Unknown currently doesn't seem

40:20

to have any effect on humans because humans

40:22

have undoubtedly ingested this

40:25

stuff and we haven't noticed anything

40:27

with you know, a human coming down with chronic

40:29

human wasting disease or whatever. The

40:32

worry is that like swine flu or

40:34

you know, a bird flu, it could jump

40:36

species the way those did, right,

40:39

becomes zoonotic. Yeah,

40:41

so just be aware, that's all. That's

40:43

really all. And I would

40:46

say, if you are actively hunting, do

40:48

send in samples, like, find out who you can

40:51

send a sample into, and then just

40:53

do it.

40:53

Please, please do it.

40:56

You're absolutely right. Sounds like maybe it's

40:58

a it's a pain to deal with

41:00

bureaucracy which is often slow

41:03

moving. But let's not forget

41:05

that doctor Michael Osterholm,

41:07

the US epidemiologist

41:09

who first tipped Britain to

41:12

mad cow disease, Let's not forget

41:14

that he said, this chronic

41:16

wasting disease and deer could become

41:19

a quote slow moving disaster.

41:21

Oh yeah, and here's a quote from that same

41:23

Guardian article. This one's from doctor Corey

41:26

Anderson. This freaked me out. That's

41:28

why he said quote, We're dealing

41:30

with a disease that is invariably

41:33

fatal, incurable and highly

41:35

contagious, made into the worries

41:37

that we don't have an effective way to eradicate

41:40

it, neither from the animals it infects

41:42

nor the environments it contaminates.

41:46

Just think about that for a while while you listen to these ads.

41:48

We'll be right back with more strange news.

41:50

Eight deer bray smokement thal cigarettes,

41:52

two crimes.

41:53

No wait what, I didn't mean.

41:55

It,

42:02

And we're back with one more piece of strange

42:04

news for this your first day of twenty twenty

42:07

four.

42:08

This one's a doozy. We talked a bit about

42:10

this off air, and I think

42:12

we've mentioned the idea of a ban on

42:14

menthol cigarettes coming down from

42:17

the United States federal government that

42:19

has been postponed into

42:22

twenty twenty four. Unknown as to exactly

42:24

when it will happen, but it most likely

42:26

will unless some of the measures we're going to talk about in

42:28

this news bit kind

42:31

of do what they're setting out to do.

42:34

During the second Republican presidential debate,

42:37

there was an advertisement that played

42:39

on Fox Business that

42:41

talked about how Biden's

42:44

ban on menthol cigarettes could

42:46

This is quoting the ad fuel an illicit

42:48

market lining the pockets of the Mexican

42:51

cartels, featuring

42:53

some very inflammatory

42:56

imagery of border fences and stacks

42:58

of one hundred dollars bills and men

43:01

carrying coffins and such.

43:04

And this ad was paid for by

43:06

something called the Border Security

43:08

Alliance. And I read

43:10

a really great article on Mother Jones

43:13

by Dan Friedman and Isabella

43:16

Diaz from just about a week

43:18

ago this past in twenty

43:20

twenty three, in December twenty first

43:22

of twenty twenty three. You can find it yourself. It's a pretty

43:25

deep dive, much more than we can get

43:27

to in this segment. But I did want to talk

43:29

a bit about how the idea

43:32

of these tobacco companies,

43:34

you know, R. J. Reynolds, you know, being first

43:36

and foremost on that list and their parent company,

43:38

Altria, are having to kind

43:40

of pivot with all of the you

43:42

know, science behind cigarettes

43:44

and all of the horrible health conditions that they can

43:46

cause, and also some of the issues surrounding

43:49

vapes and also knowing

43:51

how a lot of these vapes

43:54

are coming from places like China, places

43:57

like you know, other other countries, and

43:59

there is a certainly a

44:02

black market of some sort to

44:04

be talked about, to be to be addressed

44:07

with this kind of stuff, and that of course,

44:09

organized crime organizations have often

44:12

looked to changes in regulations,

44:15

you know, by the FDA around certain

44:17

things to pivot their business models

44:19

into, you know, what they decide

44:21

they want to smuggle into this country. So

44:24

again I'm just saying a lot of those

44:26

things are true. What is very

44:28

interesting is how the tobacco companies are

44:31

kind of spinning it here, right, the

44:33

idea that and like who they're

44:35

referencing, the kind of fear mongering

44:37

behind a lot of this stuff, And what is

44:40

the Border Security Alliance? A

44:42

tweet from the bsa

44:45

underscore US official Twitter

44:48

x whatever account Border Security Alliance

44:50

says, our border is at a crisis point.

44:52

We are battling ruthless cartels on a daily

44:54

basis. And now in the Biden administrations

44:56

is considering a ban on menthol cigarettes.

44:59

That's irresp The president's

45:01

ban will fuel an illicit market lining

45:04

the pockets of Mexican cartels

45:06

and throughout the life

45:08

of this kind of talking point, which

45:12

is relatively recent,

45:15

as we've seen, you know, the conflicts between

45:17

Israel and Gaza. UH

45:20

now terrorist organizations

45:23

has kind of they has joined the chat and

45:26

even referencing, you know, stuff like groups

45:28

like Hamas and Hezbollah, and

45:30

of course in political rhetoric, those

45:32

are things that get people's dander up nice

45:35

and good. So I don't know, I just

45:37

wanted to see what you guys thought about this

45:39

kind of politicization of

45:41

something seemingly as innocuous

45:44

as banning menthol cigarettes, which, as we know,

45:46

based on some studies, you know, would help prevent

45:49

a lot of young people from starting to smoke. Menthol

45:51

cigarettes are kind of considered a gateway cigarette

45:54

because they taste nice or whatever.

45:56

They've got a minty flavor. I don't know how

45:58

much I necessarily believe that, But

46:01

what do you guys think? What's at

46:03

play here? And is

46:05

this a shadowy lobbying effort or

46:08

is this just a company trying to keep other

46:11

countries from eating their lunch.

46:13

Let me put this out there, at risk of

46:15

being gross to most people

46:17

listening to this right now, at one point

46:20

in my life, I smoked mentalated

46:22

cigarettes. Yes, that's

46:24

right disgusting, and I'm sorry, but

46:27

I did.

46:28

A lot of people do, Matt, I mean it's they're

46:30

popular.

46:31

Well, at the time when I did, that

46:33

was the only type of smoke

46:36

that I would use, right, that I

46:38

would purchase in

46:40

that state of mind that I was in

46:43

at the time. When I was smoking those, I

46:46

would I would drive twenty

46:48

minutes if I knew I could get them somewhere,

46:50

right Like, if I couldn't find them my local

46:52

gas station, I would drive out of my way to go

46:54

and get them because I needed them, and I felt like I

46:57

needed them, and in many ways

46:59

I felt help addicted to that specific

47:02

type of cigarette.

47:03

Dude, now that I think back on it, I started smoking

47:05

by smoking menthol cigarettes when I was very

47:07

young. Just putting that out there, absolutely

47:09

true.

47:10

I think that it's

47:12

true potentially that if you ban this specific

47:15

type of thing, there

47:17

would be a black market for it that

47:19

may open up, or at least

47:22

a spin on it that would end

47:24

up being legal, but it would taste

47:26

kind of the same, But there would be

47:28

something that would fill in that market space,

47:30

right, because there are going to be millions

47:33

of people that smoke them right now that are

47:35

going to need them, but they're going to feel

47:37

like they need them, right, But is.

47:39

It coming from the cartels?

47:42

Is it coming from hesba lah? Like,

47:44

that's my question. It seems like

47:46

an over complication of

47:49

you know, yeah, there's a black market for freaking

47:52

raw milk, you know, if you

47:55

if you can't get it legally. Black markets

47:57

come up during any kind of prohibition. But

47:59

is this funding terrorism

48:01

and you know, weakening

48:04

our border security.

48:06

I'll come in after you met. I think I would

48:08

just say.

48:09

I got you. I think it would

48:11

fund either market innovation,

48:14

right or organized

48:16

crime, which doesn't mean terrorism,

48:18

doesn't mean cartels, It

48:21

means like prohibition era

48:23

stuff, right. I mean, in my mind that's

48:25

what it is.

48:26

Speakeasys flappers,

48:28

but meilated.

48:30

Cigarettes selling Lucy's

48:32

selling selling a square.

48:35

Yeah, I guess what I mean is I just don't know. I don't

48:37

know if that is the same thing, right, And

48:39

I don't know how you would prove that that is the

48:42

same thing as terrorists and

48:44

car Yeah.

48:44

It's a it's a bit rich, I

48:47

think, especially in a

48:49

land where the or in

48:51

a ecosystem where

48:54

tobacco legacy

48:56

companies immediately

48:58

pivoted to vapes that

49:01

are essentially Halloween candy

49:03

flavored at all times. Like

49:05

that, that is the still, that

49:07

is the menthilation, the gateway

49:10

that you're talking about, NOL. The

49:12

idea of equating it to terrorism

49:15

makes a lot of sense because

49:17

you can easily get more funding.

49:20

I'd like to shout out the allies of

49:23

the Border Security Alliance,

49:25

which is not a governmental organization,

49:28

right right, So

49:30

shout out to the Arizona Police Association,

49:33

Combined Law Enforcement Associations

49:35

of Arizona, Glendale

49:37

Police Officer Association, Arizona

49:40

Probation Officer Association, Tucson

49:43

Police Officer Association, and

49:46

some friends in Albuquerque. Like the list

49:48

goes on. What I'm saying is there

49:50

are people with a horse in the

49:52

race. It is very

49:55

good not to not

49:58

to light up a Cadillac Newport if

50:00

you if you can avoid it,

50:03

it'll cost you a lot of money, either

50:06

either at a gas station or later

50:08

in a hospital.

50:09

What is that?

50:10

Cadillac is a street term for

50:12

the longer new Ports.

50:14

Okay, like a like a like a one hundred

50:16

yeah yeah, yeah, just so can I add to that really

50:18

quickly, But just to just to get this out there, Another

50:21

divisive use of the

50:23

divisive piece of rhetoric is the notion that

50:25

this ban is inherently racist

50:28

because black people disproportionately

50:32

prefer smoking menthol cigarettes to

50:35

non menthol cigarettes. Again, don't

50:37

know if that's true. Kind of almost feels

50:39

like a like an unfair stereotype. But

50:41

maybe there's data to back that up. But it doesn't

50:43

stop people from throwing that around, you

50:45

know, as if to mean or to

50:48

malign this this action.

50:51

Yeah, it's interesting too, because

50:54

putting the terrorism idea aside,

50:57

the like just bracketing that for a

50:59

second. We know that

51:01

banning tobacco has

51:04

worked in various countries,

51:07

right there are countries where you can,

51:09

as a visitor bring in

51:11

a set amount of tobacco,

51:14

whether it's measured by weight or in

51:16

the case of cigarettes, it's i

51:18

should say, in the carton of cigarettes, it's

51:20

measured by a number of

51:24

coffin nails. But the thing

51:26

is here, we're looking

51:29

at something that may

51:32

simply fade away. Indeed,

51:34

the best propaganda for cigarettes,

51:38

for what the kids are calling old

51:40

school cigarettes now instead of apes, it's

51:42

going to be Hollywood. It's going to be

51:44

all those old films, all

51:46

the old TV series where

51:49

in the coolest or most

51:51

mysterious or most dangerous person

51:54

you know, all of a sudden has a cigarette

51:57

whatever they're doing. So I think that you

51:59

have to beat propaganda before

52:01

you clamp down on this stuff and call

52:04

it terrorism. Also, how much

52:06

money, no, how much money would terrorist

52:08

groups make off selling Lucy's

52:11

I.

52:11

Good question, Ben. What I

52:14

do know though, is that tobacco

52:16

use is way down

52:18

in the United States, like in

52:20

a pretty significant way, and also among

52:23

young people, you know, who aren't starting to smoke

52:25

combustible cigarettes, you know, and that maybe

52:27

doesn't necessarily always wrap in the

52:29

vape stuff, which we also know have their own problems,

52:32

And it's one of those things where long term the

52:35

effects of vapes are yet to

52:37

really they're kind of TBD. Which

52:40

is wild to me that any

52:42

form of vape is FDA

52:44

approved or is able to be acquired legally.

52:47

But now, I mean, anytime you go to a gas

52:49

station or like a smoke shop, a tobacco

52:51

you know, headshop, whatever you call it, and you see

52:54

these little disposable guys,

52:56

like these elf bars or whatever, it's my

52:58

understanding that those aren't entirely

53:01

legal because they taste

53:03

like mango and afriking, you

53:05

know, papaya and stuff, and they're

53:08

pretty colors, and I just I don't

53:10

quite understand how those are able to be sold,

53:12

if that's a black market thing or if it's just a loophole

53:15

thing. Because Jewel got

53:17

pilloried for all of this stuff. They

53:19

kind of became the whipping boy for a lot of

53:21

this debate, and they aren't allowed

53:23

to sell anything that has a

53:26

you know, fruity flavor anymore.

53:28

Right, I don't quite understand where these elf bars are coming

53:30

from.

53:31

Well, I suspect, I'm

53:33

sure I suspect the

53:35

legacy tobacco companies again have

53:38

their hand in the cookie jar here, or

53:40

have their hand in the tobacco barn, because

53:43

that can replace the market demand.

53:46

Right, you get a candy flavor

53:48

nicotine substance that replaces

53:51

the your earlier experience as

53:53

a child with mentallyated cigarettes,

53:56

as you call them, Matt. The idea

53:58

though that I

54:00

don't know. I sound like I'm cracking on the

54:04

the ulterior motives of

54:07

the border alliance here,

54:09

But just to be fair, you

54:11

have to point out our earlier conversation

54:14

in a previous Strange News segment

54:17

when the cartel took over the avocado

54:19

trade just so they could, you

54:21

know, make some money. So maybe maybe

54:24

they are in.

54:26

The way overthrew the government to sell pineapples

54:28

or whatever whatever, like with the was

54:30

it Jaquita? Remember

54:32

there was a whole coup like to sell bananas.

54:35

Oh in nineteen fifty four, the free of Throw

54:37

of Guatemala.

54:38

Correct, yes, yes, I'm saying like this is yeah. Sorry,

54:40

man, you're absolutely right. I'm just thinking of other

54:43

examples.

54:43

You're right, yeah, I mean also, that's

54:46

the thing I'm looking at this in some

54:49

of the notes who provided us here. No, I'm

54:51

looking at the Management

54:53

of Border Security Alliance, And

54:56

if you go to their about section,

54:59

you see that there's a lot of Arizona

55:03

Arizona Area l eos

55:06

who are on their board or managing

55:09

the place, and they're primarily

55:11

concerned with what

55:13

they call border security. They're

55:15

primarily concerned with emigration

55:19

and drug seizures.

55:21

So is this.

55:23

Really one of their core missions or

55:26

is this something to get into the

55:28

headlines and then further push

55:31

the Overton window of what they want

55:33

the conversation to be.

55:34

To be fair, our j. Reynolds was reached

55:37

out to by Mother Jones and asked to give

55:40

a comment, they said the following.

55:42

Like many other companies, Reynolds supports organizations

55:44

that contribute to the debate on issues

55:47

that are important to our consumers. Reynolds

55:50

has been clear on where it stands on

55:52

this topic. We strongly believe there are more

55:54

effective ways to deliver tobacco harm reduction

55:57

than banning products. Banning products

55:59

often leads to a tended consequences,

56:01

such as the increase of illegal, unregulated

56:04

products flooding the market.

56:06

Ooh, you gotta admire that linguistic

56:08

park wore though, huh a couple of

56:10

matrix dodges. They did a backflip.

56:13

Yeah, it's not bad. And then you know, there are other organizations

56:16

mentioned in this this article

56:18

to your pointment. Another one is the

56:20

National Organization of Black Law Enforcement

56:23

Executives, which is a group

56:25

that until very recently listed

56:28

R J. Reynolds as being one of their major

56:30

supporters and now just

56:32

decided to pivot to mentioning Altria,

56:35

which is that parent company of Philip

56:37

Morris. You know, so

56:39

it's a little better optics, but there's

56:42

skin in the game for this stuff, and

56:45

the idea of linking it to hot button

56:47

issues certainly isn't a new technique,

56:51

but I find it to be disingenuous and

56:53

a little on the creepy

56:55

side. I think it's something to look

56:57

into further, especially as we see developments

57:00

in this kind of thing, because prohibition

57:03

of any kind does always have I

57:05

will totally agree. I think we all will have unintended

57:08

consequences that can oftentimes be predicted.

57:12

And I think maybe banning mental

57:14

cigarettes is not even that is it going

57:16

to make that big of an impact. But I could be wrong,

57:18

because you're right, Matt. I do remember a

57:20

lot of young people I knew that started

57:22

smoking started smoking by smoking like cools

57:25

or something that like had that it

57:27

was easier, It was a gateway because you

57:30

know, Marlborough Reds are gross

57:32

but freaking you know, cools

57:35

or Newports or whatever they've got this they

57:37

are there's a certain candy quality

57:39

to them. That's that's you're not wrong.

57:41

Oh and prohibition. Another

57:44

way to phrase prohibition. I agree with

57:46

your points here. I think that's

57:48

brilliant astute. Another way

57:50

to phrase prohibition is

57:53

the perverse incentive

57:55

concept. So you

57:58

know, especially here in the States,

58:00

you tell people they can't have a thing, right,

58:03

Remember, even you don't tell I can right,

58:06

right right, And lest we sound too

58:08

political, let's remember in

58:10

New York when someone banned

58:13

large sodas right

58:15

at your local bodega. People

58:17

were up in arms, even John Stewart,

58:19

who clearly have better things to do. Uh,

58:22

soda is different because it will it

58:24

will have us health

58:26

effects less less immediately

58:29

damaging averse health effects. But

58:32

gosh, selling cigarette

58:34

selling Lucy's the mother

58:37

Jones article you mentioned here.

58:39

Noel also talks about UH

58:42

terrorist groups in the Middle East, not

58:44

just Mexican cartels.

58:45

Yeah, yeah, it was, and that was sort of added

58:48

later in terms of the language. And I

58:50

think a lot of that had to do with UH

58:52

some of the you know, the conflicts

58:54

going on, you know with Gaza and stuff

58:57

that are very much in the news right now. As

58:59

a way of like tying it to something

59:01

that people understand as PoTA,

59:04

that people divisively understand

59:07

as a threat. It's

59:09

just weird. It's all just lobbying and marketing,

59:13

and it's a bunch of bulls. But it's

59:15

very fast episode. Uh, I think so too,

59:18

Yeah, And I think we leave it there today.

59:20

This one has run long, but I think, man, what a

59:23

great way to kick off the new year,

59:25

and hey, at least we started off with some positive

59:27

stuff. Guys, right, Thank you for that, Ben,

59:29

I gotta say, and.

59:31

Thank you everyone for tuning

59:33

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59:36

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59:38

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counterclockwisewise? Yeah,

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