Episode Transcript
Transcripts are displayed as originally observed. Some content, including advertisements may have changed.
Use Ctrl + F to search
0:00
From UFOs to psychic powers
0:02
and government conspiracies. History
0:04
is riddled with unexplained events. You
0:07
can turn back now or learn
0:09
the stuff they don't want you to know. A
0:12
production of I Heart Gradios How
0:14
Stuff Works. Hello,
0:24
welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name
0:27
they call me Ben. We are joined as always
0:29
with our super producer Paul Mission controlled
0:31
dec and most importantly, you are
0:34
you. You are here and that makes
0:36
this stuff they don't want
0:38
you to know. From the offset,
0:40
it is important for us to collectively
0:42
establish that this episode is
0:45
not an advertisement for the
0:47
Irishman. The newest Scorsese
0:49
film that just dropped on Netflix,
0:52
Uh, to no small amount of
0:54
acclaim and a little bit of
0:57
controversy. Al Pacino
0:59
plays one of the I
1:01
don't know, maybe secondary is a
1:04
good word, a secondary character
1:06
in the film Uh. He plays a character
1:09
named Jimmy Hoffa, which is based
1:11
on the real life Jimmy Hoffa.
1:13
Now, Nol, you and I had talked about
1:15
this film a little bit off air when we
1:18
saw it, and and Paul you watched
1:20
it, so you brought it up to us without
1:23
spoiling the film for anyone. It's based
1:25
on a book, right, by this guy named
1:27
Charles Brant. It's called I
1:29
Heard You Paint Houses. I Heard You Paint
1:31
Houses, which is a fantastic title.
1:34
This book purports to be nonfiction,
1:37
includes interviews and alleged confessions
1:39
made to the author, Charles Brandt, by
1:42
a former mafia hitman named
1:45
Frank she Wrin like Edge
1:47
she Wren Uh and yes
1:50
and this uh. This film
1:53
inspired our own super producer,
1:55
Paul deck And to say, Hey, guys, have
1:57
we ever delved into the story of jim
2:00
Me Halfa? And I don't know. I
2:02
I assumed that we had. We
2:04
had. Not that changes
2:07
today. So here are
2:09
the facts. Yeah, let's talk about Jimmy
2:11
Haffa. Who is this guy? Well, he was born James
2:14
Riddle. You know, he went by Jimmy Halfa.
2:17
And he was born on Valentine's Day, that's
2:19
February fourteenth, nineteen thirteen,
2:22
in a place called Brazil, Indiana.
2:24
I did not know there was a Brazil Indiana. It's
2:27
kind of cool. I've never heard of that place either.
2:29
Um, assuming the the
2:32
climate is a bit different in that Brazil. Um,
2:35
he he was aware of
2:37
let's say, the American labor
2:40
force, the American laborer, the person who
2:42
was using their hands to create
2:44
something, generally for somebody else. His
2:47
father was a coal miner and
2:49
he passed away when Halfa was
2:52
very very young. Jimmy was young, and
2:54
his mom had end up joining the workforce
2:57
to support her family, which which
2:59
was a fairly common occurrence as you know,
3:02
um, the heads of households
3:04
would die off, whether it was through war conflict
3:07
or a workforce accident or something like that.
3:10
Um. He had three siblings
3:12
of four children, including Jimmy,
3:14
and eventually they moved to a place
3:17
called Detroit, Michigan, which
3:19
at the time was a
3:21
hotbed of industry
3:23
and growing. You know, this is uh,
3:26
this is still before the
3:29
enormous boom of the American
3:32
auto industry, but still
3:34
it's very much an industrious place. It's a great place
3:36
to get a job. And we don't
3:38
know how much formal education Jimmy
3:41
Hoffa was able to achieve. Uh,
3:43
you know, you'll hear's. Historians say they don't know
3:46
whether he reached high school, much less
3:48
graduated, but we know that eventually,
3:50
while he was in school, he had to drop out.
3:52
He had to help support his family, so
3:55
he worked on the loading dock for
3:57
a chain of grocery stores there
3:59
in Detroit. Wait, and while working there,
4:01
imagine how young this guy is. While working
4:03
there, he organizes his very first
4:06
labor strike and it all
4:08
hinges on shipments of strawberries.
4:11
Yeah, and he actually was pretty
4:14
demonstrating some pretty serious
4:16
streets smart to this point already because he used
4:18
a recent shipment of strawberries as leverage
4:20
to help get his coworkers better
4:23
deal, better contracts um
4:25
for their labor. They refused to unload
4:28
the strawberries until they had secured
4:31
better, better pay and
4:33
in the thirties, well, I just have to say right there
4:35
with the strawberries, like, that's a smart thing because
4:38
strawberries go bad pretty quickly,
4:41
and if you don't unload the strawberries,
4:43
he's like he was coming up the works for everybody
4:45
basically by doing that. And the
4:48
it's interesting how it's set a timer, like
4:51
very clear timer on when you're
4:53
gonna lose all your money on these strawberries,
4:55
and you're also losing money because that truck
4:57
is now stuck there. It was just really smart. Have
5:00
worked with canps, Honestly,
5:02
it wouldn't because this CANPS, I
5:05
don't know. Yeah, hard to say if that was
5:07
just like a serendipitous thing, or if
5:09
he very much you know, was being calculated
5:11
about that. But it was absolutely a smart
5:13
move and he got what he wanted. Then in the nineteen thirties,
5:16
um Hafa officially joined
5:18
the International Brotherhood of Teamsters,
5:21
which is what he went on to become
5:23
the president of at least the union's
5:26
Detroit chapter. UM.
5:28
So he kind of laid the groundwork for a career
5:31
UH in labor um and and it would
5:33
seem it came. He came by honestly based
5:35
on his you know, trajectory and his upbringing
5:38
at that point. Yeah, and we should also stop
5:40
too for anyone who doesn't know. Doubtless,
5:43
doubtlessly we have several Teamsters
5:45
in the audience today, but a
5:47
lot of people in this country and abroad
5:49
don't really know what a teamster is. The
5:52
teamster, the old word atomo logically
5:54
is like someone who drives a team of horses.
5:58
Right now, ac cordy to their website
6:00
teamster dot org. The Teamsters are
6:02
America's largest, most diverse
6:05
union. UH. They started in nineteen
6:07
o three is the merger of two team
6:10
driver associations t
6:13
E A M. By the way, not teen
6:15
in case, my annunciation is off,
6:18
and today you will you
6:20
may be most familiar with them as
6:22
truck drivers, right, because we've
6:25
replaced to a great degree, we've
6:27
replaced animal labor with
6:30
mechanical labor. So at
6:32
this time he is uh,
6:35
he is. As you said, Noel joined
6:37
up with the Teamsters. He starts
6:39
as the president of the Detroit chapter.
6:42
For many less ambitious people, that
6:44
would be the version of making it.
6:46
You know what I mean, I'm king of the town. And
6:50
the thing is that halfa is not
6:53
a guy satisfied with being a big fish
6:55
in a small town. Make no mistake, he
6:57
is a shark. He expands
6:59
you in membership. He quickly
7:02
garners a reputation for getting
7:04
better contract agreements by any
7:06
means necessary. Cough cough, corruption,
7:09
cough cough, mafia cough
7:11
cough, uh
7:13
cough. Right, But he
7:16
started out honest, right, That's the very important
7:18
thing. By nineteen fifty two, he's vice
7:20
president of the entire union,
7:23
so not just Detroit, but the entire
7:25
international brotherhood of Teamsters,
7:28
and just five years after that, nineteen
7:30
fifty seven, he is the president of the entire
7:33
organization. It's one of these things where, especially in
7:35
the way he's portrayed in film like, I haven't
7:37
been a long time since I've seen that Jack Nicholson
7:39
uh film that believed any de Vito
7:41
directed, It's called Hafa. But at least
7:44
in The Irishman, you do get
7:46
the sense that he felt
7:48
as though he were still representing
7:51
the common man and doing something positive,
7:53
even though he was clearly um heading
7:56
up what was not a strictly legal
7:59
enterprise. He he seemed like he maybe
8:01
could convinced himself that it was all for the greater
8:03
good. It was all for getting his fellow brothers
8:06
a better deal, like with the strawberries. But
8:08
in order to do that, you know, we're swimming
8:10
with sharks here. We gotta play nice with the
8:12
sharks, a bigger, bigger
8:15
shark exactly, because it's all about us versus
8:17
them mentality, and in this
8:19
case, us did include
8:22
some pretty um nefarious characters.
8:25
Halfa was to be the subject of
8:27
numerous criminal investigations and
8:29
and it was a shadow that kind of relentlessly
8:31
followed him throughout his career, and this is
8:33
portrayed really really well in the in the s
8:35
Carsese film. Um wasn't entirely
8:37
surprising his direct predecessor,
8:40
Dave Beck, had also been
8:42
investigated and he was ultimately tried
8:45
and convicted of corrupt practices
8:47
within the union. Dave Beck, which
8:50
was convicted, which gave half of the opportunity
8:53
to ascend to this position, yet
8:55
half a persevered Nineteen
8:58
sixty four was a big year
9:00
for him in a number of ways,
9:02
not all of them fantastic. His
9:05
big win was that he got nearly
9:07
all of the truck drivers in the entire
9:10
continent of North America under a single
9:13
contract. Uncle
9:15
Sam have been keeping
9:17
an eye on Jimmy, and they
9:19
thought there was something rotten
9:21
in the teamster's something fishy about
9:24
his rise to fame and his success.
9:26
Now at this point, he is very,
9:29
very similar to a
9:31
well known politician, or maybe even
9:33
to some degree of celebrity. Right, the
9:36
FBI and then U S.
9:38
Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy
9:40
are watching Haffa very
9:42
closely. They are convinced
9:44
that a lot of his union success is
9:48
less a result of being a shrewd negotiator
9:51
and more a result of a close collaboration
9:54
with organized crime also known
9:56
as the mob or the mafia.
9:59
Right, so what
10:01
else happened in nineteen sixty Well,
10:03
halfa himself was found guilty
10:05
of a couple of things, bribery
10:07
for one, also jury tampering.
10:10
Jury tampering the good old j
10:13
T when when something goes wrong
10:15
and somebody knows it, you gotta
10:17
tamper a little bit. Yeah,
10:20
right, like and and that can be really
10:23
that could be really terrible or just going like here's
10:25
a hundred dollars, don't don't talk about me,
10:27
or it could yeah, or it could be something to the level
10:30
of you know, memories
10:32
a funny thing, Mr Smith, you
10:35
know what I mean. Like sometimes you think
10:37
you remember, so you look back and you realize
10:39
you don't remember it too good. After all,
10:41
you know, it could have been anybody there. But you know
10:43
one thing, one thing you never forget
10:46
is your children smile. And it's wonderful
10:48
will be able to see that every day instead
10:50
of just looking back and and remembering
10:53
it and wishing you could say hello to him.
10:55
Oh boy, oh boy,
10:57
that was really
10:59
good. That's just the science of memory.
11:02
I was gonna say, just like casually mentioning
11:05
his or her daughter's birthday, but like that's
11:07
like that was on that was on the was on
11:09
the money. Well, that's cinematic I'm sure it was
11:11
much more subtle, yes,
11:14
but but that stuff that that's when he
11:16
he was found guilty of both of those things in connection
11:18
with a previous trial that he had that
11:21
he had gone through in nineteen two years
11:23
prior. Yeah, he was on trial for conspiracy,
11:25
which I love you that people could be convicted
11:27
of conspiracy. And then he
11:30
was found guilty in sixty
11:32
four for charges related
11:34
to, as you said, Matt conspiracy. So
11:36
that was one bad thing that happened to him that
11:38
year. Yeah,
11:41
he's also convicted of misusing funds
11:43
from the union's pension plan. And
11:45
that's a big note in the in
11:48
the film that Scorsese did,
11:50
and also a note I believe
11:52
in the book I Heard You Paint Houses, because
11:55
the union's pension fund was
11:57
an enormous amount of money and
12:00
he pretty much had direct
12:02
control over it, so he could make the money dance
12:05
to the tunes he chose, and a lot of those
12:07
tunes were mafia
12:09
backed projects, like in Las Vegas,
12:11
for example, um paying for wings
12:14
to be constructed on you know, casinos,
12:16
and as we know, a lot of that money came directly
12:19
from the mob to start you know, Las Vegas. In
12:21
the first place. So there were those
12:23
relationships, uh that were
12:25
ongoing and directly tied to dipping
12:28
into that money, which would then be invested
12:30
and get a return. It's not like he was stealing
12:32
money from the pensioners people
12:35
who would do that money. But it was still playing
12:38
fast and loose with the rules. You know,
12:40
you're telling me that organized crime
12:43
organizations launder
12:46
money through things like labor unions.
12:49
It's true, map money laundry, but
12:51
it's got a great return. I'm just gonna say,
12:53
if everything goes well, there's a great return
12:55
for that stuff. Uh. Yeah, money laundering
12:58
was it was a big part of it. Also,
13:01
at what point do this Maybe a
13:03
story for a different day, but at what point do campaign
13:06
donations become um
13:10
illegal? Right? At what point would be interfering
13:12
with the democratic process? Well, I mean, all you gotta
13:14
do is make him unlimited and then you're
13:16
good to go that I should fix all those problems.
13:18
Right, Well, I think it's safe
13:21
for for the five
13:23
of us. Uh, Paul Noel met
13:25
myself and you listening to agree
13:27
that Jimmy Hoffa probably did not deal
13:30
with these philosophical quandaries in the
13:32
same way. It's
13:34
just cost of doing business. So
13:36
after three years fighting these
13:39
charges that his lawyer
13:41
and and you know again as depicted in the in ther
13:44
Citi film, it was a union lawyer, UM
13:46
who was also very aware of what was
13:48
going on, made the argument that
13:50
this was all trumped up. Um. He had
13:52
exhausted his appeals finally and he got thirteen years
13:55
in prison in the nineteen sixty seven he
13:57
was incarcerated in the Louisbourg Federal Prison
14:00
in Pennsylvania. UH. And
14:02
then came along UH
14:05
a like minded individual who has sent it to the
14:07
presidency, a little guy by the name of Richard Nixon
14:09
who commuted half a sentence in seventy
14:12
one, essentially giving him
14:14
a part in a presidential pardon with a
14:16
year and a half of probation. However,
14:19
this came with a string
14:21
attached. Nixon band half
14:23
of from holding any union leadership position
14:25
at least until nineteen
14:28
So bit of a slap on the wrists. It's
14:30
a weird one too, because it's a string with a
14:32
time limit. He's not saying stay
14:35
out of the game, your dirty rat. He's
14:37
saying, just sit on the bench until
14:40
the eighties. Let's let the heat die
14:42
down a little bit. Well, and it's so it's
14:45
so odd to me that Nixon the president,
14:47
came through and said, you know
14:49
what, it's okay, is it odd? You're good?
14:52
You're good man, You're gonna be okay. It's only been a couple
14:54
of years. You got thirteen, You'll be all
14:56
right. Well half a donated heavily.
14:58
Oh, I know it's campaigned,
15:01
but just too to be able
15:04
to get a president to do that, no
15:06
matter how much money you're donating to them, because
15:09
in the end, it's you know, the public
15:11
appearance of something like that. But here's
15:13
the deal. Jimmy Hoffa and
15:15
a lot of labor union leaders
15:19
out there are like
15:21
hugely beloved no matter what they're
15:23
doing, no matter what they've been convicted of. Will you
15:25
know, over the course of time and history, will
15:28
be beloved because there is this this
15:30
perception, at least from the outside.
15:33
And and you know, like we said, Jimmy Hoffa
15:35
thought that he was doing the right thing, or at least appeared
15:37
to believe he was doing the right least at the beginning.
15:39
The ideology outweighed the ego that exactly
15:42
that ideology
15:43
it ripples out through the public
15:46
of people who are assisted in that way. And this is a one
15:48
to one and some might accuse me of being hyperbolic
15:50
here, but it's almost the way you hear about, uh,
15:53
the way folks in my dan treated
15:56
Pablo Escobar, you know, very
15:58
clearly bad guy, doing at
16:00
things, hurting people, probably
16:02
directly hurting individuals in that community.
16:04
But there's this perception that he's
16:07
the best chance they've got, or he's actually looking
16:09
out for the little people, you know, and he cares
16:12
in some way, and they call him sant Pablo and all that
16:14
stuff, even though completely transparent
16:17
that this guy is is no good. Well, in Haffa,
16:19
wasn't some mob boss, no exactly,
16:21
but I don't want to draw one similar
16:24
exactly, but there's intentions
16:27
to look out for the
16:29
the labor class, of the working class. We
16:33
can imagine, you know, I think that
16:35
is a good comparison. We
16:37
can imagine supporters of Escobar
16:39
and supporters of Haffa, not
16:42
that they're the same in the same line of
16:44
business, but we can imagine the supporters saying, hey,
16:46
this guy is the reason that we have
16:48
a paycheck. This is the reason that my family
16:50
can live comfortably or better than
16:53
they would have otherwise. So
16:55
we have to remember also that with his enormous power,
16:57
Jimmy Hoffa could move the vote.
17:00
He could sway hundreds
17:02
of thousands of people to vote
17:04
for or against a given candidate.
17:07
And for the next few
17:09
years, half A wages something
17:12
very like a war. He's fighting
17:14
that ban on leadership in court. He doesn't
17:16
want to wait till and he's also
17:18
working behind the scenes, with mixed
17:21
success, to reconsolidate
17:23
his power base within the
17:26
Union. And then, of course, as
17:28
even a casual student of history
17:30
will recall, things don't
17:33
work out the way half A planned.
17:35
Or did they. We're going to rejoin
17:38
him on July after
17:41
a word from our sponsor, and
17:50
we're back. J Halfa
17:54
is in a state of what the streets
17:56
called deep beef. He has
17:59
numerous enemies, he hasn't
18:01
made a ton of friends, and he's alienated
18:03
many of the friends he had. But
18:05
he wants to make peace, and he realizes he
18:07
might have to eat some crow, he might have to swallow
18:10
his pride, he might have to
18:12
make some inroads with people he swore
18:14
he would never work with again. So
18:16
he leaves his home in Detroit and
18:19
he meets the two Tony's Anthony
18:22
Tony Jack and
18:24
Uh Anthony Tony Prow. Tony
18:28
Jack is a figure in the Detroit crime
18:30
scene. Tony pro is a mob
18:32
affiliated union leader who's
18:35
based in New Jersey. So they're supposed
18:37
to meet at this restaurant in Bloomfield
18:39
Township. Is that the Marcus red
18:41
Fox? I believe so, yeah,
18:44
that they're gonna they're gonna squash
18:46
the beef. They're gonna settle their feud.
18:49
At least that's what Haffa thinks.
18:52
So shows up, what we believe, at
18:54
least, his car shows up, and
18:56
he appears to be the only one there.
18:59
You know, he's there. He's gonna meet two people, but half
19:02
was the only guy there, and he's wondering what's going on.
19:04
Assume we assume, because
19:07
really we have no idea.
19:10
We have no evidence at least that
19:12
is um, that is concrete
19:14
as to what occurred after
19:17
he showed up at that restaurant, or
19:19
at least when his car showed
19:22
up, because his
19:24
car was there. But he was never
19:26
seen again by anyone except
19:29
for the people responsible for what happened
19:31
to him, or himself responsible
19:34
for whatever happened to him. It's
19:36
a mystery. It's one of the most longstanding
19:39
mysteries that has existed in this country,
19:42
and um, yeah, one
19:44
of America's most prominent, divisive,
19:47
important public figures had
19:49
simply Kay's are associated. He
19:51
disappeared and we're almost
19:54
a half a century
19:56
into the post halfa era?
19:58
So what happened to Jimmy
20:01
Hoffa? Here's where it gets
20:03
crazy. The answer really depends on
20:05
who who you ask. There's no shortage
20:08
of theories that have popped up over the
20:10
intervening decades, and the most
20:12
popular suspects being the
20:14
mob of course. But in some
20:16
cases this surprised me. US
20:19
federal agencies. Interesting,
20:21
right, did you guys hear about that one? That's a weird
20:23
one for sure. I mean it makes sense considering
20:26
that he was such a persona
20:28
on grata like for you know, Kennedy
20:30
and the U. S. Government. I mean, they were after
20:33
him, and he more or less shook
20:36
the rap and then was able to kind of get back into
20:38
the game. Well we'll get into
20:40
it a little bit further, but there's
20:42
also the idea that a federal
20:45
agency was involved, but not in disappearing
20:47
him by killing him or anything, but by
20:49
putting him into a protection of
20:52
some sort. Right, Yeah, so
20:55
at this point in the
20:58
if we take the high level look at it, at this point
21:00
in the world of conspiracy and speculation,
21:03
the fate of Jimmy Hoffa's kind
21:06
of entered urban legend status,
21:08
which means that the theories start to
21:10
obey some of the troops
21:13
we would associate with folk tales
21:15
or oral tradition. The general
21:17
consensus now is that the mob
21:20
conspired to kill Haffa
21:22
because they wanted to stop him
21:24
from becoming the King of the Teamsters
21:27
again. And that's because while he was
21:29
locked up, even though he wasn't locked up for the full
21:31
thirteen year sentence, while he was locked up, his
21:33
former vice president got pretty
21:35
cozy with the mob, even more
21:37
so than Haffa was, and he was much
21:39
more willing to play some games. When
21:42
Jimmy Hoffa got out, uh
21:44
the wise guys, the mafios
21:47
knew that he
21:49
would try to rain them in a little bit
21:52
and they wouldn't be able to play all
21:54
the reindeer games that they had become so
21:57
accustomed to. Make no mistake, they were probably
21:59
make ging more money under that vice
22:02
president. What was his name meant that was
22:04
Frank fitz Simmons, Frank Edward I. Believe
22:06
Frankie Fitz. Yeah, so
22:08
they were making they're probably making
22:10
more money under Frankie Fitz. Who
22:13
on earth would say no to UH
22:16
to continuing to enhance their profits.
22:18
They weren't keen to mess with that relationship.
22:22
So the idea then is that
22:24
the mob killed him or
22:26
disappeared him, and we see
22:28
a lot of common troops. Just like in other
22:31
forms of folklore, there are tons
22:33
of variations on this theory.
22:35
It's kind of like a kind
22:37
of like a bar joke or something, you know, where it's
22:39
like X walks into a bar. They
22:41
followed the same, just a mob hit and
22:44
then some sort of industrial
22:46
process to destroy or hide
22:48
Haffa's body. There are a ton of examples,
22:51
Yes, there are, indeed. Um One
22:53
of them is that Haffa was killed, placed
22:55
in the trunk of a car, then the car was crushed
22:58
in a mob affiliated scrapyard. Um.
23:00
That would be a pretty clever way to go about it, wouldn't
23:03
that leave a lot of physical evidence? Though, Like I
23:05
don't know, you gotta will get a wonder with it, like seep
23:07
out the cubed car, like
23:10
the remains or anything like that.
23:12
I wonder what that would look like, Yeah, I imagine,
23:14
so it would have to definitely be a
23:16
tightly controlled scrap yards. Scrap yards
23:19
can be really big. But this
23:21
was also in the days before DNA testings.
23:24
True, it wouldn't fly today. No, certainly
23:26
not as much, specially if it was a known kind
23:29
of mob tied facility or whatever.
23:31
Another one is that he was hit in the head with a shovel
23:34
and buried alive. Where are these coming from? Cheeze
23:36
dramatic? I like it, but that
23:39
one doesn't make the most sense. Do
23:41
you have any providence for the for the
23:43
for the origin of a one. Yeah, that one
23:45
comes to us from the
23:48
great rumor mill. That
23:50
doesn't That one doesn't have a
23:52
lot of sand to it. A lot of
23:55
a lot of these examples that we find
23:57
came out later after
24:00
because of course this happened before DNA. It also
24:02
happened before internet, right, So
24:04
a lot of these come about
24:07
from statements by former
24:10
mafia associated individuals,
24:13
usually when they are attempting to
24:15
seem as though they have leverage so
24:18
that they can get some juice with the FEDS, maybe
24:20
get a better deal up to an including
24:22
relocation and immunity makes
24:24
sense, and that also makes sense for some of the ones
24:26
to follow, uh, which seemed to be
24:29
kind of variations on a theme. Right. Halfa
24:31
was murdered and his remains replaced in an oil
24:33
drum um Halfa and one container
24:35
or another was thrown into
24:38
the Great Lakes, or was abducted by the
24:40
FEDS and thrown from an
24:42
airplane. It's a waterproof
24:44
planned full proof. That's
24:46
uh. I just think about that.
24:50
When has when has anybody said, you
24:52
know, the best way to get rid of this prominent
24:55
figure is to take them on an airplane
24:57
and then, in full view of anyone who happens
25:00
to be, you know, looking up, let's
25:02
throw them from the plane. It doesn't
25:06
that one, okay, So that one comes from the
25:08
FED. One specifically comes from a
25:10
guy named Joseph Franco. I have no idea
25:12
whether he's related to the actor. He
25:14
was an old one time associate of Haffa's,
25:17
and Franco said that he kept the
25:19
story to himself for years because
25:21
he wanted to use the info as leverage
25:23
in negotiating an immunity deal
25:26
if he were caught for other unrelated crimes.
25:28
Spoiler alert, It did not work
25:30
out for Franco. No, it did
25:32
not. There's one that Paul is
25:35
a particular fan of as well, The
25:37
idea that, uh, halfa
25:40
became this sort of grizzly
25:42
hidden landmark for a
25:44
sports team. Oh yeah. The
25:46
idea is that half was dispatched,
25:49
shot baby whatever it was. Then
25:51
he was his limbs were
25:54
taken apart, he was dismembered, then frozen,
25:56
and then get this guess, buried
25:59
inside the cement foundation of
26:01
Giants Stadium. Now,
26:03
this was then located in Rutherford, New
26:06
Jersey and East
26:09
Rutherford, New Jersey. So what's interesting
26:11
about this, just to interject, is that
26:14
there's a nice mythic tie
26:16
in here because in
26:19
some ancient civilizations
26:21
and cultures thought when you were building
26:23
a place of great import, you
26:25
were required to make a blood sacrifice
26:28
of some sort. This and cats
26:30
in there right right now. This doesn't work
26:32
with that kind of left hand path stuff because
26:35
the idea is that he wasn't killed
26:37
on the site. If you really want the magic to
26:40
hit, it's got to happen, you know, live
26:42
and direct on the place where you plan to lay
26:44
the stones. Yeah.
26:47
Yeah, I can't remember the movie
26:49
that I just watched that talked
26:51
all about that, but it had uh
26:54
the actor who
26:56
plays the Queen of Dragons. Uh.
26:58
She was in it and it was like a haunting
27:01
horror movie on Netflix. Anyway,
27:03
I'll check it out. It's out there. They
27:05
they mentioned they mentioned burying
27:08
a cat like oh and alive cat in
27:10
the in the walls jerks.
27:12
Yeah. Gross. Well anyway, in this case,
27:15
it was in Giants stadium. Uh.
27:17
And this is pretty crazy because it originates
27:20
from an interview that a guy named
27:22
Donald Francos gave in ninety
27:24
nine to Playboy magazine, which
27:27
I want to say, at the time was doing great journalism.
27:29
Actually still Playboys
27:34
Soldiers on. I'm not as familiar.
27:36
I'm not as familiar with modern Playboy
27:39
nowadays. I mean, there's the old joke that you just read
27:41
it for the articles, but apparently, like for a while,
27:43
it was absolutely a place where a lot of short
27:46
stories writers broke their work
27:48
and kind of went on to great things. My
27:51
favorite Shell Silver Steam poem was
27:53
published in Playboy, and I
27:55
stole a copy as a kid so I could read the poem.
27:58
Isn't that weird? That is quite It's
28:00
good. It's about the devil. It's a whole thing. The
28:03
one that was kind of filthy,
28:05
Yes, remember
28:07
that one. That's a good one. What's the
28:10
what's the name of that? Oh, gosh, the
28:12
devil and Billy Markham, that's
28:14
the one. Yeah. Um. And in
28:16
that article in Playboy, Um
28:19
he claimed that Haffa was killed by a New York
28:21
Irish mafia boss by the name of Jimmy
28:24
Coonan and buried um
28:26
at the home field of the New York Giants
28:28
in New York Jets football teams,
28:31
so ac Cordy to Franco's after Conan shot halfa
28:33
with a silence twenty two caliber pistol
28:35
in a house in Mount Clemens, Michigan,
28:38
he in New York mafia hitman John Sullivan
28:42
bagged up the body parts and stored them
28:44
in a freezer for months. See
28:46
that's weird because you would think you
28:49
would want to get rid of the body as
28:51
soon as you can, because every time anybody
28:55
else who knows about the freezer, even if they don't
28:57
know there's a body in it, could be uh
28:59
an knew of exposure. But okay,
29:01
so they've gotten in this freezer
29:03
for months. Apparently nobody opens
29:06
the freezer in this part of town. What do they do
29:08
after those months have passed? Well,
29:11
you find a stadium that is
29:13
under construction, a giant concrete
29:15
monstrosity, and you find
29:17
a place where concrete is being poured
29:20
and you place it surreptitiously
29:23
underneath there. Right, that's the whole
29:25
idea. So so for
29:27
real, though, Giant Stadium was under
29:29
construction and it was going to open up the next
29:31
year, or it was planned to at least, the bags
29:33
were then mixed into the concrete foundation
29:36
in what became a certain section. So if
29:38
you go, if you went to Giant Stadium and you looked
29:40
at section one oh seven down
29:43
there deep, that's where Jimmy Hoffa late at
29:45
least according to this theory. And this
29:48
section was located near the end zone of
29:50
the stadium's football field. There's one
29:52
one of the end zones. Yeah, there's one problem
29:54
with this, which is that there is no
29:57
evidence other than these claims
29:59
by people speaking years after the fact.
30:02
In fact, the FBI,
30:04
while they had initially entertained most descriptions
30:08
or allegations of the fate of Jimmy Hoffa,
30:10
and they you know, days and months
30:12
following his disappearance, Uh, they really
30:14
cooled on this theory. And when the stadium
30:17
was demolished in the
30:19
FBI did not even bother
30:21
to show up and search the site because they
30:23
put him there. I'm just kidding, that's
30:25
that's not true. I'm joking, you
30:27
know. I just I don't
30:30
think people really get thrown from planes
30:32
as often as fiction would have us believe.
30:34
Well, that's the that's the other part of the stories. He was
30:36
thrown from a plane and he went right through,
30:39
straight through that concrete and just like embedded
30:41
inside there. And then oh and the FBI went
30:44
good enough, he was wet, the concrete
30:46
was still wet, and he just went, uh,
30:48
so let's get back to she
30:50
writ she Wren is the source
30:52
of the claims that are made in the
30:55
book I Heard You Paint Houses? Uh
30:57
and the Irishman. The film
30:59
is based in the book I Heard You Paint Houses, she
31:02
Wren says that he had betrayed
31:04
Jimmy Hoffa, and he says multiple
31:07
times that Jimmy Hoffa was a friend of his right
31:09
and he said he pulled the trigger
31:12
because it
31:15
was inevitable that someone
31:17
was gonna kill halfa and so he
31:19
thought he felt honor bound that it should
31:21
be him, and he thought, also, you know, at least
31:23
I'll make it quick he'll die instantly. So
31:26
here's what he said happened. He said that he
31:29
brought halfa to a house in northwestern
31:31
Detroit, and he stood behind Jimmy
31:33
Hoffa, and while Jimmy hoff was distracted,
31:36
she Wren shot him twice in the back of
31:38
the head the double tap, and then
31:40
he said they cremated Haffa's
31:42
remains and a traction senerator in the suburbs
31:44
of Detroit. She Wren
31:47
actually gave the address of
31:50
the house, and we'll get to this.
31:52
Uh, we gave the address of the house
31:54
where the murders supposedly took place.
31:57
Investigators treated seriously. They
31:59
searched this for evidence of the killing,
32:01
and they found traces of blood
32:04
in the house, but later
32:06
testing revealed that this blood did
32:08
not belong to Haffa, so someone probably
32:10
died. Maybe she Wrin was just misbearemembering
32:14
this, however, was just one
32:16
of several searches conducted.
32:19
Will get to a few of those after a
32:21
word from our sponsor, and
32:29
we're back. Now let's get into some of the official
32:31
attempts to find Jimmy,
32:33
offer to recover his body, or even
32:35
to locate him if he was still alive. Um
32:37
so let's get let's jump to nineteen nine
32:41
to the FBI and Kenneth Walton,
32:43
he's the agent in charge of the FBI's
32:46
Detroit office, and he
32:49
was speaking with the Detroit News UH
32:51
in nine and he was talking
32:53
about how he knew what had
32:55
happened to Halfa, And we have a quote from him
32:57
here, I'm comfortable, I know who did it, but it's never
33:00
going to be prosecuted because
33:03
we would have to divulge informants
33:05
confidential sources. Informants
33:08
confidential sources.
33:10
Yeah. Well, now let's just say
33:14
I can imagine in a case
33:16
like this, with somebody like Jimmy Hoffa
33:19
that has so many connections to probably
33:21
multiple organized criminal organizations.
33:25
Um that if you did, let's
33:27
say, charge somebody
33:29
that you knew or you were aware of who
33:32
did it. But if by doing that, it's
33:34
going to compromise like two or three major
33:37
let's say vice investigations
33:39
or you know, uh, investigations
33:41
of conspiracy, like that
33:44
would be a hard that would be a difficult choice
33:46
to make, at least just to find
33:49
the killer or to apprehend the killer
33:51
of another known criminal
33:54
or associated criminal. So
33:56
like, why would why would you give up
33:58
on this other thing that is
34:00
viable right now, just to just
34:03
to close that case. I don't know, yeah,
34:05
because if and I
34:07
don't want to put words into the mouths of
34:09
the law enforcement here, but I think it's a fantastic
34:12
point, because if you think that someone
34:14
is already inherently corrupting kind of a
34:16
dirt bag for one reason or another, then
34:20
do you feel the same moral
34:22
obligation to pursue
34:25
a case, especially if it means pursuing
34:28
that case may uh preclude
34:31
your ability to lock up other living
34:33
criminals who are out there still doing
34:35
things that you find morally or
34:37
you know, legally, um
34:40
terrible. That's a really good point, man, I
34:43
don't I mean it would it would make
34:45
sense that that Walton at least believe, like
34:47
truly believed he knew. Yeah, And
34:49
I would say also, I
34:51
would say also to as
34:53
as anyone in the enforcement
34:55
community listening to the show today,
34:58
including our n s A interns, even knows
35:01
full well, uh,
35:04
I imagine that the vast majority of
35:06
professionals working in those fields would
35:09
say, well, it doesn't matter
35:11
whether I like someone
35:13
who is a victim of a crime. It's my job,
35:16
it's my career. Correct. But it
35:18
is a cold hard fact that somebody
35:20
somewhere would have to make the decision to,
35:23
you know, if if there was and this is the
35:25
big if here, if there was a
35:29
conflict in that way that we're speaking
35:31
of here, somebody would have to make the decision
35:33
to either continue uh
35:36
searching for Hafa and going down those leads,
35:38
or saying, okay, we gotta leave this alone. Yeah,
35:41
yeah, I mean it's true, it's true. The
35:43
search continues. In two thousand
35:45
and one, Uh, you know, we had mentioned
35:47
earlier the lack of DNA evidence
35:49
for testing. Now forensic DNA is
35:52
a thing, forensic DNA investigation. Rather,
35:54
in two thousand one, these hair
35:56
strands found in
35:58
the nineteen seventy five Mercury
36:01
Marquis linked
36:03
Haffa to a vehicle that authorities
36:06
believed was used in this disappearance.
36:09
This vehicle, this Mercury, was owned
36:11
by a friend of Haffa's named Charles
36:13
Chucky O'Brien, and they were actually
36:15
they were actually friends. Police
36:18
and uh survivors. Members
36:20
of Haffa's family had always
36:23
believed that O'Brien played
36:25
some sort of role in the disappearance,
36:28
but O'Brien for decades
36:31
had denied being involved in
36:33
any shape, form or fashion.
36:36
He said, In fact, Halfa had never even
36:38
been a passenger in his car. Now,
36:41
just a tip here for all the ne'er do
36:43
wells in the crowd today. If you want
36:45
a stone wall, that's a pretty that's a pretty
36:47
good way to do it, you know what I mean. That's
36:50
like just under the level of playing so
36:52
dumb that you say I own a car. Yeah,
36:56
okay, we found these hairs
36:58
of Jimmy Hoffas in your car here.
37:01
He's never even been in there. I don't
37:03
want a car. What's hair? Guys,
37:08
this is a lot for me to take in. Gosh.
37:11
But uh but this
37:14
lead this search also peter doubt because
37:16
you see authorities
37:19
linked Haffa or is Us some
37:21
strands of his hair to the car, but they were
37:23
not able to determine when Halfa would
37:25
have been in the car. This also could
37:27
mean that since he and Chucky
37:29
hang out a lot, that maybe the
37:31
hair just got on some of
37:34
Chucky's clothing or something. And I think we maybe
37:36
bury the lead here a little bit. Chucky was uh
37:39
more than just a friend. He was half A's adopted
37:41
son. And the way it's portraying the movie. I
37:43
was a little confused about it too, because
37:46
there's a scene where somebody pulls
37:48
a gun on Halfa during
37:50
one of his trials or like, you know, one of
37:52
his corruption trials, and Chucky
37:55
kicks the crap out of the guy, and Haffa
37:57
makes a big scene about saying, as my boy,
37:59
you know, like I raised him or whatever. You run from a knife,
38:02
your charge a gun, You charge a gun exactly,
38:04
um point being it wasn't
38:06
his blood sign, it wasn't his uh
38:09
biological sign, but essentially was someone
38:12
he had taken under his wing and referred to
38:14
more or less as his adopted So so my question
38:16
is surely he if they were as close as as
38:18
as the record indicates, he would have been in that
38:20
car before. He's never been in my car.
38:23
What is a car? I have a car. I
38:25
don't understand, Charles w Chucky O'Brien.
38:30
So there were more searches. They've continued.
38:33
We mentioned that two thousand and twelve
38:35
search based on the
38:37
testimony of she Won or the statements
38:39
of she Wren. Investigators did search
38:41
that residents based on a tip two
38:44
thousand twelve. They didn't they didn't
38:46
find anything, and they found some blood,
38:48
but it wasn't office. I think every time I hear the
38:50
name Shearon, she
38:53
Ra, Oh you know, yeah,
38:59
that wasn't me. I never understood
39:01
what wasn't she woman because
39:03
there was this internal consistent he man,
39:06
Yeah, and then she Ra. Why
39:08
couldn't it be he Ra? That'd be
39:10
cool. Actually, I was more of
39:12
a ThunderCats guy. I was the superior
39:15
Muscley mutant show in my opinion.
39:19
Oh wow,
39:22
we're doing the low fi dub step. That
39:24
was kind of the Hank Hill versus
39:28
I was gonna. I thought it's gonna be so much more intense
39:30
than that. I was kind of bracing myself, and because
39:33
we were we were reacting to your
39:35
brace. It was we held
39:38
back because you were clearly I think we both thought
39:40
that you were. You were just letting the moment
39:42
build and you were going to scream it. Oh
39:45
yeah, it was great. We'll fix
39:47
it in post No, I don't need it, so
39:49
it was great. Yeah, unrelated. Rewatched
39:52
the live action he man,
39:56
I liked it. You know who plays Skeletor
40:00
uh not Dolph Loren uh Frank,
40:02
No, Yeah, that's it. And
40:04
he he's the only person who hasn't disowned
40:07
the film because his kids liked it. He played
40:09
a very strange skeletor. Also,
40:12
you know, some toy lines just don't have
40:14
the narrative heft to
40:16
hold a feature. You know, they
40:19
even had man at arms in there. Anyway,
40:22
what else was Franklin go in? Oh
40:25
yeah, he's in a bunch of stuff,
40:28
but he was not in the Halfa investigation.
40:31
Probably to wrap this
40:33
one up. In uh June,
40:36
the FBI gets another tip and
40:38
they search of field in Oakland Township,
40:40
Michigan. That's about twenty miles away from where
40:43
Halfa was last scene. There
40:45
was a guy involved in crime named Tony
40:47
Zarelli. Not the stereotype,
40:50
but this is there's a Tony
40:52
heavy tail and Zarelli
40:55
gave the gave the authorities info
40:58
about where he said Halfa was buried. He
41:00
also described how
41:02
Halfa died. He said, Oh yeah, he's
41:04
the he's the person who said that
41:07
Halfa was hit on the head with a shovel and buried
41:09
alive. But he said
41:11
this in an e book that he was selling for
41:13
profit. Uh And nothing
41:16
came of it. So either the
41:18
authorities were bad at digging or
41:22
Zarelli was miss from remembering. But
41:24
at this point, no one no
41:26
one has verified any
41:29
remains. The closest they've come would be those strands
41:31
of hair with Halfa's DNA. But
41:34
this also leads us to controversies. The
41:36
Irishman is based on, as we said, a
41:39
single book. Both Scorsese
41:41
and de Niro, who plays she Wren, described
41:44
the character she Wren in the film as
41:46
a fictional persona based
41:48
on or loosely inspired by
41:50
the real guy. And furthermore,
41:53
not all Halfa experts agree
41:55
with she Wren's story. A couple
41:58
of them think it's total millar. Oh.
42:00
Yeah. The author, Dan Moldea,
42:03
he wrote the book The Halfa Wars and
42:06
he's been researching the disappearance of this gentleman
42:08
for God for years.
42:11
So he was speaking with Robert de Niro and
42:14
he basically was trying to ward
42:17
off de Niro, saying
42:19
that he, you know, he's got all these doubts about
42:21
sheering story, and he's telling DeNiro
42:23
that sheer and Brandt were I
42:26
for, let's say, essentially
42:29
running a con job on DeNiro saying this
42:31
is you should not be doing this, so like
42:33
why would you make this movie? Um?
42:36
But again like this
42:40
is pretty this is a pretty interesting story.
42:42
Even if it's not true, I would say
42:44
it's it's pretty good storytelling and
42:47
and it makes me want to watch it. Are
42:49
we in spoiler territory here for the film?
42:51
I feel like we've kind of danced around it, right,
42:54
Uh we can, Yeah, we could go ahead. Let's do
42:56
the spoiler countdown because it is a new film.
42:59
Three you and one there's
43:02
I was. I didn't, I didn't haven't done
43:04
my homework. Is that much Before watching
43:06
this I knew it was based on a book. I
43:08
did not realize that it was meant to
43:11
be unequivocally like this
43:13
guy killed Jimmy Hoffa, And
43:15
when the moment in the film where that happens,
43:18
I wasn't expecting it. And then I immediately
43:20
googled Irish men fiction,
43:23
you know, And I think that's sort
43:26
of the consensus is that it's
43:28
a little more fiction or at
43:30
least, you know, conflation of fact
43:32
and fiction and is pure uh
43:34
nonfiction storytelling, because it
43:37
again is based on one book, one
43:39
man's account, a deathbed confession.
43:41
Essentially, you know, this guy did not live much
43:43
longer past this interview, and that's that's
43:46
got dramatized in the film as well, the fact
43:48
that he's delivering this story
43:50
to the perspective
43:52
camera, which is you know, supposed
43:54
to be the journalist of you know, which is you are the
43:56
stand in for that kind of as a viewer. Excellent
43:59
film. But when I saw that, I was like, WHOA, Okay,
44:02
I guess we're this is sort of a hybrid thing
44:04
I'm seeing here, like Once upon a Time in Hollywood
44:06
for example. Um, but
44:09
if you are to believe the book, then
44:11
this this is how it happened. I do want to
44:13
bring something up my my father
44:15
in law talked with me about this pretty
44:18
extensively. His he is also
44:20
a Tony and he told
44:22
me that, without
44:25
getting into too much detail, if
44:27
this kind of thing was going to go down with
44:29
somebody like Jimmy Hoffa, the
44:31
only way you could pull it off is to
44:33
get one of his closest associates or
44:35
friends to do it himself. Because so
44:39
it would make sense for Sharon's
44:41
character to actually be the one who's able
44:44
to get close enough to do it. Because we haven't
44:46
really talked about this exactly,
44:48
but I mean they're basically brothers
44:51
in the film. And there's another character the
44:53
has the Buffaloni crime family
44:55
you know, it was Russell's played by Joe Pesci,
44:58
wonderful performance. Um.
45:01
The three of them are kind of inseparable. They're
45:03
they're almost like a family. But Jimmy
45:05
in particular gets a really close relationship
45:07
with his daughter and that's the whole thing.
45:10
Um. But yeah, he has trusts
45:13
him like a like a blood brother. Well,
45:15
one of the other reasons, I mean, think of the logistics.
45:17
If you're trying to pull off a job like this, you
45:20
have somebody who not only
45:22
has a protective close
45:24
circle, but they also have a
45:28
established schedule, calendar. People
45:31
know where and when they're supposed to be at
45:33
the majority of times. It's not like
45:36
if you're just doing you know, uh,
45:39
if you're just landing in a strange town
45:41
and finding someone under a bridge that no
45:43
one will miss for a few weeks, Like
45:46
this is an established thing where
45:48
you have you know, you have at
45:50
most probably a few hours
45:53
to get out of town, right, So
45:55
it's it definitely I
45:57
think your father in law is on the
46:00
money. Yeah, and it's kind of scary, but yes, let's
46:02
let's continue. So Dan Muldeya
46:05
has his own theory. He believes half as disappearance
46:07
was in his mind, a New Jersey
46:10
operation. He said he's interviewed
46:12
all the suspected killers in his decades
46:15
long search for the
46:17
truth of the matter, and he
46:19
he thinks that it's most likely that
46:22
it was a production of New Jersey operators.
46:25
Paul Mission Control Decade raised a
46:27
great point off air earlier when
46:31
we were talking, and he said, one thing that he found,
46:34
um, one thing that he found compelling
46:37
was that the story she runs
46:39
account felt kind of understated, like
46:42
the way Nol depicted it. This
46:44
this death is you know, there's
46:46
not a lot of gravitas build up.
46:49
It feels abrupt and brutal.
46:53
If that is, and the last one was
46:55
the last one, promise, If that is Jimmy
46:57
Hoffa killed himself. We didn't talk
47:00
about this. We're not gonna talk too much about it because
47:02
there's not a ton of evidence to
47:04
lean on here. But what if he committed
47:06
pseudo side, which, as we all know, is
47:09
the fancy pants cravat
47:11
wearing word for faking one's death.
47:14
Uh, it is very very difficult to do
47:16
successfully if you want to make any money.
47:19
Um, it is not impossible
47:21
to do if you want to just disappear and live by
47:23
your wits or if you have access
47:25
to someone who makes some very accurate
47:28
idea of some sort. Right.
47:30
Could he have gone uh with the
47:33
federal witness Protection program?
47:35
Could he have gone with your with the uh?
47:38
Could he have gone with the institution that is sometimes
47:40
called witless protection UH?
47:43
And and if so, what
47:46
happened to him? Well, we know that Jimmy
47:48
Hoffa died for
47:51
legal purposes on July. He
47:55
was declared legally dead as we record
47:58
today's episode. His disappearance and
48:00
his likely death have yet to be confirmed.
48:03
Let's do a little math. If he were alive
48:05
in nineteen as we record
48:07
this, he would be a hundred and six years old.
48:10
That means even if somehow he actually
48:12
went off the grid, you know, changed
48:14
his name to Himmy Jaffa or
48:17
whatever and lived in a small town in Saskatchewan
48:19
or something, he probably
48:22
already passed away.
48:24
But that hasn't stopped the investigation. As a
48:26
matter of fact, this is
48:28
this is one of the things we can leave you with. The
48:32
film and the book that
48:34
we've mentioned today may have
48:37
inspired US investigators to get
48:39
back on the case. So this was December.
48:42
This is right now as we're recording this.
48:45
As the Irishman has come out. Uh.
48:47
There's an interview with U S attorney
48:49
Matthew Schneider, and this
48:52
guy was asked by you know, a reporter
48:54
by someone there, what do you you know? What do you think about
48:56
the Irishman? What are your thoughts? Well, his
48:58
statement was, uh,
49:01
certainly intriguing. I will talk about
49:03
this, but not now. I have
49:05
a lot of thoughts about it. It's unresolved.
49:08
I have my own theories. There will
49:10
be more to come on this. Yeah,
49:13
I mean, you know, I didn't mean to dismiss
49:16
this whole thing as being like some sort
49:18
of fantasy. Obviously there's
49:21
information in this film and in this book
49:23
that is meaningful. Um,
49:25
but you can draw your inclusions. But anybody like this
49:27
is actually really close to the story. Surely
49:29
there's gonna be some stuff that there's a ring of truth
49:32
to, or that he knows unequivocally is true.
49:34
And I'd be interested to hear uh this
49:36
perspective. I think that it's the people that are still
49:38
alive that I think that can really shed
49:40
some light on which parts of this are real, and that's yet to
49:42
be determined. And this is also uh
49:46
TikTok situation because
49:49
many of the people who would have been in their prime
49:51
and directly involved have passed
49:53
on. That's just how, you
49:55
know, That's just how
49:57
the body crumbles, right, And yeah,
50:01
it makes me. It makes me wonder
50:03
if a deathbed confession
50:06
has already occurred. It just kind of went
50:08
unnoticed because the family and
50:10
the surrounding people were just like, okay,
50:12
whatever, whatever, Grandpa, you're crazy
50:15
or or even um,
50:17
Grandpa, what are you think? Mmmmmmm
50:20
no, no, no, no, no no no. We don't talk about their grandpa.
50:22
Grandpa. It's supposed to be America. You
50:24
know the rules. Get the pillow. I'm
50:26
just you know, that was dark. I apologize. We're
50:31
gonna take it. Hey, Grandpa, We're gonna take a quick
50:33
trip over to the Giants Stadium. It's gonna
50:35
be fine, Grandpa, just come with us. The best
50:37
view is from outside the player. This
50:40
is terrible, that field of dreams, right,
50:43
So we at this point
50:45
past the torch to you, fellow
50:48
listeners, what do you think has
50:50
this been solved unofficially
50:53
the way that the former region in charge
50:55
of the investigation believes it has. Will
50:57
The answer to Jimmy Hoffa's disappear
51:00
Urrance UH is widely suspected
51:02
death ever come to light, why
51:05
or why not? We want to
51:07
hear from you. You can find us on Facebook.
51:09
You can find us on Instagram. You can find us on Twitter.
51:12
Special shout out to our Facebook
51:14
community page. Here's where it gets
51:16
crazy. We can't wait to swing by there
51:18
and see what you think about Jimmy
51:21
Hoffa. Also, Hey, you know, we're
51:23
just gonna shoot our shot. If you have
51:25
information about the disappearance
51:27
of hafa Um,
51:30
send it, send it to us. We won't wrat you
51:32
out, we promise. Yeah, ed cheering if
51:34
you know what you're you know, relatives
51:37
did like let us know. Yeah, that guy's got a Shrek
51:39
tattoo. I did not know that he has a
51:41
couple. Actually, I think it's a Donkey and the Shrek.
51:43
He's really into Shrek? Is he the one who did I'm
51:45
in love with your body? Is that about
51:47
Jimmy Hoffa? That's good, that's
51:50
good, Ben. I would prefer to believe
51:52
it. But the line I believe
51:54
is now his bedsheets smell
51:57
like you. Yeah, Jimmy.
52:01
I'm gonna look up the lyrics for this after
52:04
we wrapped. In the meantime, Hey, what do you
52:06
do if you hate the social meats, but
52:08
you still want to tell us what happened to Jimmy Hoffa.
52:11
You give us a call. You call one
52:13
eight three three s T d
52:16
W y t K. Just
52:18
give us a call. You'll hear Ben's voice.
52:20
There will be a beep and then just say I'm
52:22
in love with the obody and I will
52:24
be like, whoa, it was about the Jimmy Hoffa
52:26
episode, and then leave your message. We'll get
52:28
it um. If you don't want
52:30
to do any of that stuff, but you still want to
52:32
contact us, you have an idea for an episode, you want
52:34
to tell us anything at all, you can send us a good old
52:37
fashioned email. We are conspiracy
52:39
at iHeart radio dot com.
52:59
Stuff I Don't want you to know, as a production of i
53:01
heeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more
53:03
podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart
53:05
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
53:08
you listen to your favorite shows
Podchaser is the ultimate destination for podcast data, search, and discovery. Learn More